Credits: @cowomen
Podcasts are super popular. But with nearly a million podcasts launched in 2020 alone, how can we find great podcasts that might slide under our radar?
With the way that podcasts are currently ranked and rated, it might be difficult to uncover independent, niche podcasts. For instance, both TIME and CNETnamed Staying In with Emily & Kumail, Nice White Parents, and Floodlines as a few of the best podcasts of 2020.
They are solid lists with truly incredible shows, but most podcasts mentioned are produced by big players in the radio industry game. In short, it’s the podcast equivalent of checking out the Billboard Top 40 Pop Songs to find music to enjoy. And Cardi B’s hit song “WAP” (which stands for Wasn’t A Podcast) is indeed fire — but if it’s all you’re listening to, then you’re missing out.
Maybe you haven’t heard of podcast gems like A Skeptic’s Path To Enlightenment, 15 Minutes of Mental Toughness, or Unsolved Mysteries Rewind. Those are just three of the 430 podcasts mentioned in the Listen Notes interview archive, wherein creators shared their wisdom about planning, launching, maintaining, and growing podcasts with us.
Shows like Just Breathe: Parenting Your LGBTQ+ Teenager, and Checkered Flag with Jacob Gelman are independent podcasts about parenting tips and NASCAR, respectively.
From the interview archive, you can learn more about what it’s really like to be an indie producer. The result is a snapshot of indie podcasting today — a look at the best, worst, most inspiring, and most frustrating parts of venturing into independent podcasting today.
First, some themes — why are people making and devouring podcasts in 2020?
According to Infinite Dial’s 2020 report, 75% of the US population is familiar with podcasts, and 379% of people over the age of 12, listen to podcasts monthly.
“Podcasts now reach over 100 million Americans every month,” said Tom Webster, SVP of Edison Research, “and are attracting an increasingly diverse audience."
The rate of podcast listening continues steady growth among men and women — including children, adults, and older people. “Online audio has reached a new high in weekly time spent listening,” noted the 2019 report, observing that the increase was “potentially driven by podcasting and smart speakers.”
It’s easy to see why online audio is so hot: Podcasts are an efficient, effective way to capture attention and tell a powerful story, direct to your audience. With more ways to listen to podcasts (hello, smart speakers) and easy access to podcast-making tools and software, it’s no wonder that so many independent podcasts are being produced today.
Sydney Axtell, host of Burnt Out.
Why are independent creatives leaping into podcasting?
Here are some key trends and commonalities I found:
Podcasters help their listeners
Art is Alive is a podcast that focuses on increasing mental health awareness by creating interviews with celebrities who disclose their own struggles. Listening to the career successes and failures — or the peaks and valleys of real stars — helps others deal with rejection and understand that they are not alone. Syrena Michele of The Sesh has a Masters in Counseling from Syracuse University and podcasts to “Share what I have learned”
Byte Sized Biographies talks about “Some Very Famous People You've Never Really Heard of,” which host Philip D. Gibbons does to “[provide] information in a world where people have no time to read 800 pages books.
Eric Freeman started The Unseen Paranormal Podcast to share research he’s done and “to help others know that they are not crazy either.”
“I’m doing this as a benevolent act for myself and for humanity as a whole,” wrote John Toycen, the host of You’re Dead Too. “Not in a grandiose sense, but in the idea that if one person takes anything helpful from it in the long run, then it will have been worth it.”
Podcasters help themselves
Ashley and Ryan are a married couple who started the Ruining Our Childhood podcast in March, “mostly as something to do together as a couple.”
“Our main motivation is just to have a good time and a laugh together and if that brings entertainment to other then that makes it that much better,” said Derek Loflin and Nathan Ruf of Mixed Martial Idiots.
After a tough year in her life, Angie of My Ugly Truth Podcast said her “goal was just to vent but now it’s become bigger than that.”
Others use podcasting to get better at soft skills and have an outlet. “I started the podcast in 2017 to improve my public speaking skills, and it seemed like a fun, creative outlet amidst all of the super stressful parts of running a business,” said Jen McFarland of Women Conquer Business.
“Podcasting is very therapeutic,” said Demetri Kotiadis of Rise and Grind - A Marketing Podcast, "For me, it is like a business therapy session.”
Casey Chaplin has a radio and broadcasting background and started Ominous Origins to “keep my broadcasting and production skills sharp.”
And some just love the process. “I use the action of creation and storytelling to help myself work through this crazy world,” said Luke Eller of Back Porch USA.
To tell stories
Storytelling is the driving force behind many other independent shows, like Deirdre Breakenridge’s Women Worldwide, wherein they interview mostly women about their careers, or Songwriter Trysts, which celebrates the people and stories behind songwriting.
Some also use storytelling to prove a point, like Ari Andersen, who is out to prove that Millennials Don’t Suck. As with any creative medium, it starts with a story.
Alexis Arralynn of When The Bough Breaks has “guests call into the show and talk about their experiences being estranged from one or more family members.”
And lots of True Crime podcasts tell stories, much like the popular program Serial from This American Life. Brad Willis was an investigative journalist who “spent nearly two decades” working on an investigation. Eventually, he started Murder, etc to reveal what he knew “while continuing to investigate the case in realtime .
Because they want a place to dive into a really specific world
Are you really into dogs? Lacrosse, cricket, or role playing games? Craft brews? A minute-by-minute breakdown of the show 24, or The Simpsons? For hyper-fandom about paranormal messages in David Bowie’s music and deep dives into #vanlife, podcasts are (maybe) the new books.
Personal advocacy and awareness for a cause or business venture
Independent producers are using podcasts as a creative outlet to inspire, educate, and support their audiences. Many of the podcasters interviewed speak of how they wanted to create an audience in order to get out a message or idea that they see as important.
Civilla Morgan launched her show, Childless Not by Choice, to raise awareness and create conversations. Non Wels created You, Me, Empathy after a near-death experience. Florian Noutsos started Singulier to “help gay people to better accept themselves.”
After the death of George Floyd, Theron Frazier thought about running for public office but instead opted to start a podcast as a more effective way “to bring attention to all the issues the community is facing.”
A podcast can also be a powerful way to build an audience for professional endeavors. Neely Quinn makes The Training Beta podcast, which is an extension of their day job as a nutritionist and rock climber. Eric Rosenberg is a full-time freelance writer who runs a podcast called Personal Profitability, an audio extension of his own blog of the same name.
The hosts of FC3 Monkey Business “started this podcast because we also run a comic convention, and we wanted to expand our reach.”
Podcasts Highlight A Specific Region, Localities, or Hometowns
Many podcasts tackle universal subjects, and most news programming glosses over local areas for national stories. Some hometown heroes have started podcasts to highlight “how rich the local culture is” like Cory Leo’s Gab Street: A Columbus, Ohio Project.
Another Ohio podcaster Lee W. Mowen started The Cincinnati and Dayton Sports Podcast because he “felt local sports weren't being covered.”
This trend isn’t unique to Ohioans. EL TIJUANA HAY ROCK RADIO gives “a platform to local Tijuana bands” while Territory Story highlights people who live and work in the Northern Territory of Australia.
Jessica Ronaasen noticed that there were “not many podcasts coming from South Africa” and started Relate Your Research “with the aim of preserving the lessons and stories of social work researchers in South Africa”
Finally, Raven Rollins and Holly Archer noticed that many True Crime podcasts only touched on headlines and wanted “to talk about true crime as locally as possible” in Sirens, which started on stories from their hometown of Ada, Oklahoma, and has since expanded to similar stories in the Oklahoma and Texas area.
Most started their podcasts because it was something they wanted to listen to
Many podcasters listened to other podcasts before deciding to launch their own. In fact, a few cited frustrations with other podcasts as a reason for hosting a show themselves. Calvin Yeager heard to much pseudo-scientific nonsense on podcasts and decided to start Curiosicty “to address some of those things I heard.” Similarly, movie and podcast fan Sean Niu was “sick of yearning for other popular pop culture/movie podcasts... to cover some of my favorite Asian movies,” so he started The Electric Image Express to do it himself.
It’s a recurrent theme. “I started the podcast because all the podcasts that I listen to focus on the news itself, even in the STEM field, seem to focus on the negative and I was tired of it,” said Adam Buckington of That’s Cool News.
Other podcasters launched their programs inspired by other shows, rather than frustrated. “I realized that tech people could really benefit from having a show that was like How I Built This, but bent towards tech startups,” said Code Story’s Noah Labhart.
And some podcasts, like The Marine Corps Movie Minute, started because other podcasts encouraged their listeners to take their concept and run with it. “The hosts of the Jay and Silent Bob Minute Podcast stated if there isn't a MxM Podcast of a movie you like, then do it yourself.”
Overall, the prevailing theme here is that many podcasters decided to create something that they wanted to listen to but it didn’t exist yet.
Jessie Blount and Lark Malakai Grey started The Gayly Prophet because “There weren't any chapter-by-chapter Harry Potter podcasts out there doing the kind of intersectional analysis of the books that we both craved,” they said. “So we decided to create the art we wanted to see in the world!”
Finally, podcasters podcasted their podcasts because, well, COVID...
It’s hard to talk about 2020 without mentioning the pandemic that caused people around the globe to enter varying periods of quarantine and lockdown. Being alone and stuck at home caused people to explore new hobbies or find new outlets for professional endeavors. And for many, that included podcasting!
Vin Nelson said the Multi-Hazards podcast about Emergency Management, Climate Change Adaptation and Security started when few jobs were available and he “decided to be productive and ‘make hay while the sun shines.’”
Crista Beck, a speaker and dating coach, launched Break The Glass Slipper when speaking was no longer an option as did, and Jay Shifman, who speaks on recovery from prescription addiction, started Choose Your Struggle “as a lifeline both for me to reach people I felt the message would truly help and for me to still feel I was having the impact I wanted to have while on lock down.”
The hosts of Kabir - Voice of Love had many people reaching out for meditations during lockdowns, and found the easiest way to service them was through podcasts.
And Kevron Henry started Kinda Sober in August 2020 “with the goal of making a place where people can go to feel a part of a group.”
Overall, podcasting has helped hosts and listeners get through the pandemic. “We started this podcast during the Covid-19 pandemic to reach an audience that we were unable to serve before,” said Todd Wilkowski and Mike Beecher of Optimal Health Uncovered.
How are independent podcasters actually making money?
Credits: @katyukawa
Well, often, they’re, er… not. (And if you’re a podcaster reading this, check out How Do Podcasts Make Money in 2020? Here are 8 Intriguing Ways…)
Most radio-makers have hopes to turn their hard work into a viable business. But with start-up costs, like equipment and editing software, and regular expenses like website hosting fees, the costs of making a podcast can add up. On top of that, promotion of your show can be costly. Social media management tools and advertising costs can get expensive. Submitting your own show for the chance to get recognition, like in the Webby Awards, costs money. And while many podcasting newsletters and podcast apps offer classified ads specifically targeted to podcast listeners, those add up, too So, can independent podcasts really be profitable?
Rob Maurer, host of The Definitive Tesla Podcast, generates around $565/month through listener donations. Okay, that’s about $8/hour — but it’s a start! Rob uses Patreon, a popular site for creators to set up a platform for donations and fan support.
Shane Lee is a full-time podcaster, and his show Foul Play, co-hosted by Wendy Cee, is funded by sponsorships and Patreon support, though he says, “You shouldn't start selling merch or create a Patreon until you hit 10,000 total downloads.”
“I have 11 Patreon supporters contributing $5 per month,” said Brodie Sharpe of The Run Smarter Podcast, who as of September 2020 was averaging 8,000 listers per month.
Rolling In The Geek makes a “small bit of money each month” through Ko-fi and Patreon.
Some shows also take one-time donations via apps like PayPal, Venmo, or Cash App, and rely on the generosity of their audience. “I see my listeners as my sponsors first and foremost,” says Camille Conte of The Camille Conte Show.
What about business sponsors? If you’ve listened to any podcast in the last month, you’ve probably heard a carefully-crafted spiel about the simplicity of Squarespace, the comfort of MeUndies, the luxury of a Casper mattress, the deliciousness of a Blue Apron box. According to Wired, podcast sponsorship is a lucrative path for advertisers, with a few players dominating the advertising circuit.
Sponsorship is front-of-mind for many independent podcasters; of the nearly 450 interviewed, many of them mentioned ‘sponsors’ or ‘sponsorship’. Sponsorship has become such an integral part of the podcast-listening experience that some shows, like Squatch Smashers, choose to add fake sponsors into the show in lieu of having real ones. That said, if you’re a smaller podcast, it can be tricky to get the attention or buy-in (and money) of a big-league sponsor. The sponsorship status of many indie producers can be summed up with a hopeful “not yet, but maybe soon!”
That said, quite a few podcasters did have business sponsors.
“Sponsorship came when I was reaching around 8-9000 downloads a month,” said Sarah Wilson of Roots and All - Gardening Podcast.
Kahlil Wonda, who hosts Reggae Lover, got his first sponsor through a personal connection. “At that time we had about 16,000 downloads per month.”
Smaller shows are getting sponsors as well. Kevin Patton, host of The A&P Professor, has three sponsors with just over a thousand listeners per month. “I have a niche podcast and sponsors don't have many opportunities to put their brand in front of exactly the right people.
And Meredith Hackwith Edwards of meredith for real: the curious introvert has four sponsors, two for money and two in-kind, with 131 downloads per month. “I used my experience in direct sales to pitch an idea to both that I genuinely felt benefited both of us & with podcast ad stats in hand, simply asked.”
Many newer shows also cited the CPM-based sponsorships available to any US-based podcaster via Anchor FM, though they didn’t have enough listenership to make significant money through these.
Overall, many producers that we interviewed aren’t making any direct money from their show — and they’re okay with that because it leads to profit elsewhere, whether that’s through new clients, professional branding, or new connections.
“I would estimate that my podcast brings in an additional $3,000-$5,000 per month in client work for my business,” says Apple Crider of Young Smart Money. And Crista Beck of Break The Glass Slipper said she got three new clients within a month of starting her show.
Cindy Burnett started interviewing authors on Thoughts from a Page Podcast during pandemic lockdown and said “It has opened doors for me with publishers even more than my book columns, literary salon, or social media presence.”
“Podcasting benefits me with career networking, learning about other CTO/Co-Founder stories and trials, and is decent self branding as a tech professional,” said Noah Labhart of Code Story.
And others talk about how they’re not in it for the money:“This podcast is a gift to the community to put the record straight, to say it like is all in the hope we all can do better, do kinder and be the change we want to see in the world around us,” said Drew Browne, host of The Story of Patricia - A Grandmother’s Fight To Do What’s Right.
“I gain nothing financially from podcasting,” says Sit Down & Shut Up host Joshua Tracey. “While it would be nice to be at a point where that is realistic, my real benefit is having the creative outlet and a strong listener base.”
Lessons & tips from indie podcasters
Tip #1: Find a friend.
Many of the independent podcasters interviewed are friends, partners, or siblings.
Three generations run the podcast “Review After Watching”: Brandon Church, Chris Church, and Joshua Church. The family-oriented movie review show provides a unique perspective due to the combination of hosts’ ages.
Ben Rosenthal hosts Hack The Dino with Dan McGuiness and the “Millennial” Brayden Dixon, who provides “live editing and off-the-cuff remarks.” The nonsense video game newscast is made better by podcasting partners who get to share their conversations with the world.
Other friendship-podcasts interviewed include:
- Ben and Vicki, the Australian team behind comedy podcast Insane Ramblings
- A husband-wife produced show called Sh*t Happens When You Party Naked
- The Jupiter Boys, two brothers who claim to be from the planet Jupiter, and
- Smart Enough to Know Better, a podcast by two improv theatre friends.
And even if you don’t want to have a co-host, or you can’t find anyone with the right expertise to share the mic with you, your friends and family can still help you get started. Dave Swillum and Ryan Carrigan, hosts of Waking Up From Work, recommend you “have friends and family ready to listen, rate, and review your podcast to launch to get a strong foundation to stand on.”
Tip #2: Know the technical stuff.
You don’t need to own a private studio and a top-of-the-line microphone to produce a show, but you do need a good set-up. So, how do real independent producers create their own mini-NPR (often in their basement or closet space)? Here’s how a few producers described their podcasting process:
“I use Libsyn as my podcast host. I level my audio with Auphonic. I have two Audio-Technica ATR2100 USB mics and a small Xenyx mixer… I interview most of my guests via Skype, and I use the Ecamm Call Recorder as a recording device.” — Non Wells, host of You, Me, Empathy.
“I designed our setup to be as mobile as possible while still focusing on quality of audio. We run 1 or 2 Audio-Technica AT2020 mics (depending on if we have a guest) mounted to desktop mic stands and we record on a Zoom H5 which I also use as my primary microphone. This allows me to monitor the levels as we’re recording and saves me from having to tweak anything in post. I use Garageband for any post work since it’s always so minimal; however, if it were more involved we’d be using either Pro Tools or Adobe Audition.” — Mind Gap host Justin Straundland
“I use Zoom to record, Audacity to edit, Podcast Press to copy the post over onto my website; Libsyn. I have conversations with people and invite them to be a guest if I think they will be a good fit for my audience. I use Zoom for guest interviews. I write each episode out as a blog post, that way I can use the wording as a transcript on my blog, I then record and make it chatty.” — Ruby McGuire, host of the Rock Your Fabulous Biz Podcast.
Still a bit unsure of what to add to your Amazon cart? Check out Transom’s Podcasting Basics series, which covers everything from microphone types to editing software.
Tons of podcasts we interviewed, like Relatable Stories with Ryan Banis, Scott Talks Tech, Live Blissed Out, The Feel Good Factor, and many more, also recommended Pat Flynn as a resource and inspiration.
Tip #3: Get advice from your community.
Each interview in this series ended with a question: “What advice would you share with aspiring (new) podcasters?” The advice was widely varied. Some talked about the importance of scripting and planning for shows; others talked about just jumping in and getting started. Edit, but don’t over-edit; release a few episodes at a time at first, but don’t worry about it being perfect. And, like Mollie Amburgey of The Casual Mollie Podcast suggested, talk to more experienced podcasters for advice (they’re nice!).
The JNT Baggers suggested seeking communities and spaces where other podcasters are. “Join community-based podcasting groups on Facebook. A lot of veteran podcasters are in those groups and will or have answered almost every question you can think of in regards to podcasting.” They say that one of the biggest benefits of starting their podcast has been the opportunity to collaborate with other podcasters that they’ve met along the way.
Karin Tischler, who hosts Jobsharing and Beyond, agreed, suggesting the Facebook groups Podcast Movement Community and Podcast Guest Collaboration Community.
Johnna, the producer of food podcast Champagne & Lobster, talked about the importance of being really passionate about your topic. “Choose to talk about a topic that you LOVE for your podcast. Podcasting is just like any other passion: if you do not love it, there will be plenty of days where it will be a challenge to do it,” she said. “If you love it, that challenge will be overcome with that passion.”
As with any new venture, consistency is key. “The most important detail the newbies need to hear is to be consistent, persistent, and on schedule,” advised horror podcaster Spooky Boo.
Josh Schell from the upbeat True Crime podcast Let’s Start A Cult agreed, saying that if “Your listeners expect an episode every Friday morning, then you need to have an episode every Friday morning.”
Professional ballroom dancer and podcaster Tudor Alexander suggests that patience, consistency, and vision are key: “Be patient because there’s a lot to learn and the world is diverse with options. Be consistent in the sense of consistent action towards your goal and you will get there. Vision is also important because it is where you are going — why are you doing what you are doing and what is it that you want to contribute and share with others? How are you making their lives better?”
Tip #4 Be Patient and Trust The Process
Over and over again, indie podcasters mentioned that their shows took a long time to produce to get off the ground. Some wanted to quit, but others prepared and knew what to expect.
”Podcasting is a marathon and should be approached as such,” said Mark Esper of the movie review podcast No Spoiler Reviews.
This perspective was echoed by Kevin Xu and Tony Nagatani of The Model Majority, who described podcasts as “long-tail content” that “grows slowly over time.”
Miss Elizabeth, who is a moderator of r/podcast and co-host of The Smile Syndicate Music Hour said the call the process of creating a podcast “the Joyful Treadmill.” And Sandy Kruise, who hosts Sandy K Nutrition - Health & Lifestyle Queen, promises that “Once you learn everything, it becomes a well-oiled machine and all of it gets easier.
Some find an upside in the long process to growing a podcast. “The fact it takes a while to get followers is a good thing - as it takes a while to find your voice,” said Peter Gianoli of The Marketing 24-7 Podcast.
Finally, the advice I found the most popular: Focus on making killer content for the show, and the rest will (hopefully) follow.
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P.S.: If you want to read one of the 430 interviews, here’s a link that will bring you to a random interview or you can just search, e.g., which podcasters use Skype?
