ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Geoffrey Moore, author of Crossing the Chasm (over 1 million copies sold) and Zone to Win, and an advisor to the CEOs of Microsoft, Salesforce, and Cisco, joins Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman for a first appearance on Topline. Topics include whether agentic AI has crossed the chasm, why there's "zero chance" the AI bubble doesn't pop (and who will make it out the other side!), how startups win in a downturn, and how the Zone to Win framework is useful to help move AI pilots out of incubation and into the core business. Plus, a closer look at the SaaS-pocalypse and Salesforce's platform play, trapped value as the only durable moat, the hierarchy of powers behind today's valuations, whether AI has to eat the labor budget to pay off, and whether Geoffrey would buy the Anthropic IPO at a $2 trillion valuation.
Key Takeaways:
- The AI bubble will pop, but the category leaders will be fine. "There is zero chance that this bubble doesn't pop. We're so far over our skis in terms of valuations, it's crazy," said Geoffrey, pointing to circular financing that echoes the dot-com era. The survivors are the number 1 and number 2 players: "The winners are actually gonna win… But 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10? No." - Most AI initiatives are stuck in the incubation zone. "People were piloting like crazy and having great success" said of the last two years of enterprise AI pilots... but then they got stuck. The Zone to Win fix is to make the productivity zone customer zero, re-engineering internal shared services first, then bring the new technology to the sales team use case by use case rather than all at once. - Where are moats today? Geoffrey points to trapped value as one type of moat. Trapped value analysis is a method to continually discover the new ways you can be irreplaceable to your customers, and stay ahead of the market. - The ROI from AI won't come mainly from cutting headcount. "I think they're coming from quality improvement and latency reduction, not from labor reduction," said Geoffrey. For the next decade, probabilistic agents will sit in front of deterministic systems of record with a human checking in between, because "AI can be accountable, but it cannot be responsible."
Connect with the Hosts & Guests:
Host: Sam Jacobs, CEO at Pavilion - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ Host: AJ Bruno, CEO at QuotaPath - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ Host: Asad Zaman, CEO at STA - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ Guest: Geoffrey Moore, Board Member, Venture Partner, Author - https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoffreyamoore/
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Chapters: 00:00 Introducing Geoffrey Moore 02:01 Has Agentic AI Crossed the Chasm? 03:59 Will the AI Bubble Pop? 08:59 Startups That Win in a Downturn 12:00 The Zone to Win Framework 17:51 Getting AI Pilots Out of Incubation 19:21 Is Every SaaS Company Under Threat? 21:35 Zone Offense vs. Zone Defense 25:12 Salesforce, Headless and Platforms 33:34 Trapped Value Is the Real Moat 43:00 The Hierarchy of Powers 49:14 Can OpenAI and Anthropic Stay on Top? 53:13 Will AI Eat the Labor Budget? 01:02:07 Speed of Adoption vs. Innovation 01:04:57 Bulls and Bears
