WEBVTT
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Matt Abrahams: Writing a story without thinking about your audience first
is like writing a love letter and addressing it to whom it may concern.
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Ken Hamer, who originated that quote, is right on.
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If we don't know our audiences, we can't connect our story to them.
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We can't make it engaging.
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A story will fall flat if it doesn't have a targeted audience.
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My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic
communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business.
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Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
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I am so excited to be back for our second episode in
our unconventional, non-traditional storyteller series.
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In our first episode, we talked about how we need to structure and
frame our content to really make it clear and concise for our audience.
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We talked to a trial lawyer and a cartoonist.
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Today, we're going to look at how to make our stories engaging and compelling.
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Our first conversation in today's episode is with Alex Moffat.
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He's a magician from the UK who's currently living in Sydney,
and he's been performing magic since he was seven years old.
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Let's listen in to hear what tricks he pulls out of his hat to help us all be better storytellers.
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Alex Moffat: So in magic, there's a couple of ways magicians go.
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You can have a linear route or a non-linear route.
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And a linear route would just be like, pick a card, put it back in the
pack, shuffle it, ta da, I found it, you know, and that might be baffling.
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It might be interesting.
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It might be, how did you do that?
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But it's not necessarily entertaining.
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There isn't really a story to it.
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Alternatively, the non-linear route, which involves the misdirection, attention, focus, etcetera,
and emotion, is where I might go, hey, Matt, what's your favorite card and you name it.
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Hey, would you take that out and draw a picture on it?
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Sign your name on it.
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It's yours now.
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There's one in the world that exists like this.
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And then five or six different effects happen.
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But then rather than just go ta da, it then multiplies into
three of them, which is impossible because you only created one.
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Then they all instantly disappear and then I throw and spring the cards
at the window in a restaurant or hotel, wherever we are, a person's house.
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The cards cascade to the floor, and one card was left
stuck to the window with the back facing everyone.
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I asked the person to go up and get it.
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They go up and get it, but they can't take it off the window because
they realize it's on the other side of the glass, outside the building.
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They have to run out, go and get it.
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As they peel it off the window, they wave at all their friends,
and then they come running back in to a round of applause.
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That's their signed card.
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And that has meaning.
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It's a journey, the card went on a journey.
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But there's a connection to it with the person, their favorite, they created a piece of art on
it, theirs, and then magical things happen, and of course an impossible ending that's memorable.
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You can just go straight to the point where there's no story, or you can go off
on these tangents and journeys and make it meaningful and connected to them.
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One that I've recently performed for the very first time in recent keynotes.
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It's the rubber hand illusion.
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So it's an example on neuroplasticity and how easy it is to rewire the brain very quickly.
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So I get a volunteer on stage.
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I've got this rubber hand and I have this little box that
they put their real hand under, the rubber hand on top.
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And I simultaneously with a paintbrush just stroke
their real hand underneath the box that they can't see.
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And the same finger of the rubber hand that they can see.
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And almost instantly, the brain starts to cause that rubber hand to be associated as their own.
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My problem was that there's only one person on stage experiencing it and feeling it.
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So how can I get the audience to not sit there, bored, going, oh, they're enjoying this.
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And we're just start watching.
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They've got to be able to feel it too.
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So I've moved into things where I asked them if they feel that
they could raise their finger, would it raise on a rubber hand.
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And they go, it does feel like I could move this hand and then I asked them to just move their
left index finger and then the rubber hand index finger moves up by itself as they are doing it.
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And so that freaks them out, but freaks the audience out, of
course, because it's this loose rubber hand that I've shown.
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Matt Abrahams: Alex is a true master of engagement.
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To me, engagement is all about sustaining people's attention.
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Attention is the most precious commodity we have in the world today.
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And if you can keep that attention, you have somebody engaged.
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And as a magician, it's all about managing attention, and you can hear
the level of detail in thought that Alex puts into it, and he leverages
story to help his audience focus their attention and be engaged.
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There are many ways to engage an audience.
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You can engage an audience through description, vivid description.
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You can engage an audience by playing with their curiosity and surprise.
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And certainly Alex does both.
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You can also leverage physicality.
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If you see a magician on stage, there's movement.
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He's moving around.
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He's asking you to watch things so that physicality gets to you engaged.
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There's the language you use.
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Is it inclusive?
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Using the word you, us, or we.
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Getting people to envision things in their mind, as Alex often does, through asking questions.
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These are powerful tools to help your audience get engaged.
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Now, we don't have to be a performer on a stage.
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We can leverage these tools in a meeting.
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We can leverage the storytelling best practices in our everyday conversation.
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Bringing your audience into that moment, helping them see it, feel it.
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That's what gets engagement.
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It's also critical when engaging our audience to make sure that we
are efficient with people's time and we have to be clear and concise.
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And that's where our conversation with Kudzi Chikumbu, who's the head of creator marketing at TikTok
and an influencer who goes by the name, Sir Candleman, where he focuses on fragrance and beauty.
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Kudzi Chikumbu: In the world of short form video, which, you know, where TikTok started,
you can actually upload longer videos on TikTok as well, over a minute and more.
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But I still find what keeps people engaged in the story, whether
it's fifteen seconds, thirty seconds, one minute, five minutes, ten
minutes plus is the same thing, you need to make every second count.
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Which used to be the old TikTok lingo and motto.
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Now it's inspire creativity and bring joy.
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But in fifteen seconds, that same hero's journey applies to ten minutes.
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Meaning in fifteen seconds, what people want to know is what is this video about?
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What is the problem?
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Why are you the person to tell me and how can you help me find the perfect
fragrance for when you are out on the town and trying to find a boyfriend?
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And I'm Sir Candleman, your fragrance curator.
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They know I'm the expert.
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I'm going to tell them this thing.
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These are three fragrances by this one, because X, Y, Z, I can do that in thirty seconds.
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But I can also give you a deep dive of fragrance for an hour.
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Same applies to marketers.
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You can do the fifteen second, thirty second cut, sixty second ad spot, which should effectively
help people understand like what your products or services and why they should engage with it.
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Or you can do the big brand story, documentary,
creative exercise, which should still do the same thing.
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So in all of those things back to make every second count, no part of that
video, whether fifteen seconds or fifteen minutes should be wasted time.
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Matt Abrahams: I'm wondering if you can just summarize for us,
what are the key ingredients from your perspective of a good story?
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Kudzi Chikumbu: I would say a good story has a strong hook or reason to be listened to or heard.
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I think it has a strong entry point for the listener,
the viewer, the reader to find themselves in the story.
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It has enough conflict or a challenge that they're trying to solve.
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So a problem for this person, and then it has a clear arc and resolution where you help
them achieve the thing you promised in the beginning or refer them on to someone else.
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So especially in short form video land, to make this example concrete or social media,
wherever people are posting, when people come across your post, a video, why must I stop?
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Like, what is there that's making me stop?
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Two, who are you and how do I relate to you?
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Meaning then I want to watch and learn more.
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And three, how are you helping me solve whatever it is that
I came to you for or entertain me, inspire me, inform me?
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And then three, do I actually get to that resolution?
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So those are the key parts.
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You can do them fast, you can do them slow.
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And I would say for people looking for a bonus tip, especially in a world where there's
so much content online and you want to shine through, you need to have personality.
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And people would be like, what does that mean?
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It means you just need to be your authentic self.
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By that, I mean, like truly be passionate and truly speak
in the way you speak in a way that other people don't speak.
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It's okay to show yourself in a way that other people don't see,
because that's how you cut through so much of the same content.
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Otherwise you're just another video in a deluge of videos.
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Matt Abrahams: The other thing that Kudzi does, uh, and
I have a little insight as a former student of mine.
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He is amazingly authentic, he is who he is regardless of if he's in his role as the head
of creator marketing at Tik Tok, or if he's in the role of Sir Candleman, he is who he is.
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And authenticity is really important.
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We connect with people we see as real, not people who
are putting on pretense or hiding behind something.
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So it's not just the story you tell, it's the authenticity you bring to the story.
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And that's true in any kind of messaging.
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If you are trying to be persuasive, if you're trying to be in inspirational.
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Being authentic really, truly can help.
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And that's, that in and of itself is the definition of engagement.
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He's got the attention and we see in his stories and his
information ourselves, and that's really a powerful way of engaging.
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Another powerful way of engaging is to really focus in on how you deliver the message you deliver.
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And no one is better at focusing on delivery and timing than standup comedians.
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Our final conversation is with Orlando Leyba, who is a standup comedian.
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He has performed multiple times on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, and he's not
only funny, but he actually tells stories that matter and finds the humor in them.
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And he does so in a very descriptive way that really pulls us in.
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Let's hear a story that Orlando tells that's not only funny but educational.
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Orlando Leyba: The story goes, um, I'm on the road.
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I fly home to visit my mother.
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I grew up in South Florida, uh, tropical place.
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Some people feel like they need to have a passport when they're in South Florida.
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Uh, and, uh, I decided to drive around the old neighborhoods.
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I borrowed my mother's car and I get pulled over by the cops.
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Uh, nothing new, that happens, you know.
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What was strange about this cop was that it was a bicycle cop.
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And I didn't know they could do that.
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I didn't know they could pull cars over.
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I thought they were strictly sidewalk action.
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Maybe someone's getting away by the mall, and they're, I didn't know they could do that.
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Uh, he knocked on my window, scared the bejesus out of me, right?
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And he yelled at me, pull it over.
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He had a little light, he had a little light, so I pulled it over.
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Uh, when I pulled over, he finally pulls up next to me, I rolled down my window.
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He had the typical cop talk, he was talking the cop talk.
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And he was like,
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do you know how fast you were going?
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And I was like, uh, clearly not fast enough.
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And that's the beginning of that story.
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He did not like that.
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He put down his little kickstand and he got off that bike.
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What did you say to me?
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And that's part of a, that's the beginning of a very long journey with that bicycle cop.
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Matt Abrahams: And it goes on and it's very funny.
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But one of the things that I respect so much about your work is you keep a very positive energy.
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How much of that is a conscious choice for you to be
positive and how does that impact the stories you tell?
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Orlando Leyba: You know, I just, I was in, I don't want to say the place.
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But I was in a place where they grow a lot of corn and, uh,
all the audiences were good, except one show, two young men.
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And they're farmers.
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And their energy was our girlfriends or fiancees dragged us here to see you.
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They find you funny.
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I don't think you're funny.
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And, um, it took me a solid twenty minutes to get them on my side.
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To get them to uncross their arms, release, lower the testosterone level.
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Because they were younger guys also.
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Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
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Orlando Leyba: It's like, I don't mean, they were doing pistol hand gestures.
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I'm talking about how I defend myself with pepper spray.
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Because it's non-lethal, everybody gets to go home.
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You're going to have to rinse your eyes out for two to three hours.
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But everybody goes home.
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And they're like,
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Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
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Orlando Leyba: He's like not me, you know, he's doing hand gestures and one of them was like not me.
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And he does a hand gesture, like, I just use my weapon.
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Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
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Orlando Leyba: And then I'm like, yeah, that's uh, you got to live with that.
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I told him.
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Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
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Orlando Leyba: You're saying that but it's like, have you ever, and I
asked, have you ever been put in a situation where you've had to use?
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Matt Abrahams: Right.
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Orlando Leyba: He's like, no.
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I said, I know cops.
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Matt Abrahams: Right.
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Orlando Leyba: I know cops, they have had to, they
have quit the force because the mental trauma of it.
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Matt Abrahams: Right.
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Orlando Leyba: You know, and they're just supposedly defending
their lives at the time, you know, um, and, uh, I was like, nah.
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Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
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It strikes me.
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I mean, I find this fascinating.
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Um, you know, you're a performer and yet it sounds to
me like you, you're doing more than performing there.
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You're actually trying to connect and maybe even teach a lesson in it.
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Orlando Leyba: I don't say teaching a lesson.
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That's for everybody's journey.
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Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
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Orlando Leyba: I just, one of the things that I feel is going to get
me to where I want to go with this career is a fact that, be present.
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Be present.
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Matt Abrahams: And respond to what's happening.
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Orlando Leyba: Yes.
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I'm not just staying quiet while you talk, waiting
for me just so I could just say what I want to say.
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I want to listen, you know, that's why I'm able, I think you might have seen it there,
I'm able to get off the whole joke, address the situation that's happening in real time.
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And then come back and put the train right back on the tracks.
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Matt Abrahams: We talk about storytelling.
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And we've talked a lot in this episode and the one
prior about story, but it's also about the telling.
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And I think he is a great example of how you have a strong presence and
even talks about it, how he has to be present and listen and in the moment.
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Because his audience is not just responding to him, he's responding to them.
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That's what true engagement is.
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It's where both parties are equally involved.
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He varies his voice.
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He slows his pace.
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He speeds it up.
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When you see him perform live, which I have, he uses his body in terms of his gesturing.
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The actual telling the way he shows is critical.
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So that nonverbal presence really matters.
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And I think this brings us full circle.
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We've talked about story.
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In our first episode, we talked about how we frame the story,
how we think about our audience, how we think about emotion.
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And in the second episode, we've talked about how we actually engage in the tools of engagement.
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We've talked about it through the eyes of a cartoonist, a
magician, a social media influencer as well as a comedian.
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And they're all teaching us that by engaging the audience being present, we form a connection.
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That connection has a physiological route to it.
00:16:57.100 --> 00:17:01.050
There are neurochemicals released, but there's also an emotional connection.
00:17:01.520 --> 00:17:03.949
And I really appreciate these learnings.
00:17:03.980 --> 00:17:08.520
And I think we can apply them all to our everyday communication.
00:17:08.930 --> 00:17:22.300
As we wrap up this two part Think Fast Talk Smart series on
unconventional, non-traditional storytellers, one of the things I hope
everyone is taking away is that stories are hidden in plain sight.
00:17:23.345 --> 00:17:26.625
You've heard from several non-traditional storytellers.
00:17:27.125 --> 00:17:30.195
There are many that we encounter every day.
00:17:30.815 --> 00:17:34.315
I challenge all of us to look for the stories.
00:17:34.525 --> 00:17:37.685
Look for the means by which people are telling those stories.
00:17:37.694 --> 00:17:39.015
How are they structuring them?
00:17:39.015 --> 00:17:40.225
How are they engaging us?
00:17:40.755 --> 00:17:48.395
Learn from those and begin to use those techniques in your own
authentic way, in your communication, in your storytelling.
00:17:48.625 --> 00:17:55.860
And in so doing, we will all become more efficient,
more effective, and more engaging in our communication.
00:18:00.170 --> 00:18:03.530
Thank you for listening to this Think Fast Talk Smart miniseries.
00:18:03.800 --> 00:18:08.510
This episode was produced by Jim Colgan, Jenny Luna and me, Matt Abrahams.
00:18:08.870 --> 00:18:10.730
Mix engineering by Mumble Media.
00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:14.505
Special thanks to Don Fraser of the Stanford Storytelling Project.
00:18:15.820 --> 00:18:24.430
If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more about storytelling, please
check out episode 168 with Matthew Dicks and episode 50 with Paula Moya.
00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:33.599
You can hear complete episodes with some of our guests in this
miniseries through our premium offering at fastersmarter.io/premium.
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:44.759
Find more of our episodes on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts and check out
fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter.
00:00:00.990 --> 00:00:09.260
Matt Abrahams: Writing a story without thinking about your audience first
is like writing a love letter and addressing it to whom it may concern.
00:00:09.930 --> 00:00:13.210
Ken Hamer, who originated that quote, is right on.
00:00:13.450 --> 00:00:17.709
If we don't know our audiences, we can't connect our story to them.
00:00:17.849 --> 00:00:19.290
We can't make it engaging.
00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:24.550
A story will fall flat if it doesn't have a targeted audience.
00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:29.970
My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic
communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business.
00:00:30.315 --> 00:00:33.705
Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
00:00:35.985 --> 00:00:43.215
I am so excited to be back for our second episode in
our unconventional, non-traditional storyteller series.
00:00:43.585 --> 00:00:52.745
In our first episode, we talked about how we need to structure and
frame our content to really make it clear and concise for our audience.
00:00:52.915 --> 00:00:56.545
We talked to a trial lawyer and a cartoonist.
00:00:56.955 --> 00:01:01.305
Today, we're going to look at how to make our stories engaging and compelling.
00:01:01.765 --> 00:01:05.995
Our first conversation in today's episode is with Alex Moffat.
00:01:06.065 --> 00:01:12.005
He's a magician from the UK who's currently living in Sydney,
and he's been performing magic since he was seven years old.
00:01:12.465 --> 00:01:18.114
Let's listen in to hear what tricks he pulls out of his hat to help us all be better storytellers.
00:01:18.934 --> 00:01:22.595
Alex Moffat: So in magic, there's a couple of ways magicians go.
00:01:22.634 --> 00:01:25.274
You can have a linear route or a non-linear route.
00:01:25.384 --> 00:01:34.564
And a linear route would just be like, pick a card, put it back in the
pack, shuffle it, ta da, I found it, you know, and that might be baffling.
00:01:34.585 --> 00:01:35.695
It might be interesting.
00:01:35.695 --> 00:01:37.134
It might be, how did you do that?
00:01:37.395 --> 00:01:39.154
But it's not necessarily entertaining.
00:01:39.454 --> 00:01:41.064
There isn't really a story to it.
00:01:41.695 --> 00:01:54.280
Alternatively, the non-linear route, which involves the misdirection, attention, focus, etcetera,
and emotion, is where I might go, hey, Matt, what's your favorite card and you name it.
00:01:54.539 --> 00:01:57.210
Hey, would you take that out and draw a picture on it?
00:01:57.429 --> 00:01:58.360
Sign your name on it.
00:01:58.999 --> 00:01:59.740
It's yours now.
00:01:59.740 --> 00:02:01.839
There's one in the world that exists like this.
00:02:02.080 --> 00:02:04.729
And then five or six different effects happen.
00:02:05.609 --> 00:02:12.359
But then rather than just go ta da, it then multiplies into
three of them, which is impossible because you only created one.
00:02:12.570 --> 00:02:21.105
Then they all instantly disappear and then I throw and spring the cards
at the window in a restaurant or hotel, wherever we are, a person's house.
00:02:21.535 --> 00:02:28.275
The cards cascade to the floor, and one card was left
stuck to the window with the back facing everyone.
00:02:28.605 --> 00:02:30.285
I asked the person to go up and get it.
00:02:30.615 --> 00:02:35.765
They go up and get it, but they can't take it off the window because
they realize it's on the other side of the glass, outside the building.
00:02:35.975 --> 00:02:37.875
They have to run out, go and get it.
00:02:37.925 --> 00:02:42.255
As they peel it off the window, they wave at all their friends,
and then they come running back in to a round of applause.
00:02:42.585 --> 00:02:43.735
That's their signed card.
00:02:44.465 --> 00:02:45.625
And that has meaning.
00:02:45.625 --> 00:02:47.085
It's a journey, the card went on a journey.
00:02:47.930 --> 00:02:57.730
But there's a connection to it with the person, their favorite, they created a piece of art on
it, theirs, and then magical things happen, and of course an impossible ending that's memorable.
00:02:57.760 --> 00:03:04.939
You can just go straight to the point where there's no story, or you can go off
on these tangents and journeys and make it meaningful and connected to them.
00:03:05.625 --> 00:03:10.195
One that I've recently performed for the very first time in recent keynotes.
00:03:10.195 --> 00:03:11.695
It's the rubber hand illusion.
00:03:11.975 --> 00:03:20.265
So it's an example on neuroplasticity and how easy it is to rewire the brain very quickly.
00:03:20.474 --> 00:03:21.904
So I get a volunteer on stage.
00:03:21.904 --> 00:03:28.710
I've got this rubber hand and I have this little box that
they put their real hand under, the rubber hand on top.
00:03:28.720 --> 00:03:33.760
And I simultaneously with a paintbrush just stroke
their real hand underneath the box that they can't see.
00:03:34.179 --> 00:03:36.849
And the same finger of the rubber hand that they can see.
00:03:37.390 --> 00:03:45.619
And almost instantly, the brain starts to cause that rubber hand to be associated as their own.
00:03:45.970 --> 00:03:50.040
My problem was that there's only one person on stage experiencing it and feeling it.
00:03:50.450 --> 00:03:55.240
So how can I get the audience to not sit there, bored, going, oh, they're enjoying this.
00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:56.310
And we're just start watching.
00:03:56.679 --> 00:03:58.559
They've got to be able to feel it too.
00:03:58.929 --> 00:04:06.325
So I've moved into things where I asked them if they feel that
they could raise their finger, would it raise on a rubber hand.
00:04:06.445 --> 00:04:17.165
And they go, it does feel like I could move this hand and then I asked them to just move their
left index finger and then the rubber hand index finger moves up by itself as they are doing it.
00:04:17.565 --> 00:04:22.364
And so that freaks them out, but freaks the audience out, of
course, because it's this loose rubber hand that I've shown.
00:04:22.784 --> 00:04:26.265
Matt Abrahams: Alex is a true master of engagement.
00:04:26.694 --> 00:04:31.525
To me, engagement is all about sustaining people's attention.
00:04:31.575 --> 00:04:35.544
Attention is the most precious commodity we have in the world today.
00:04:35.875 --> 00:04:39.685
And if you can keep that attention, you have somebody engaged.
00:04:39.945 --> 00:04:54.064
And as a magician, it's all about managing attention, and you can hear
the level of detail in thought that Alex puts into it, and he leverages
story to help his audience focus their attention and be engaged.
00:04:54.435 --> 00:04:57.335
There are many ways to engage an audience.
00:04:57.335 --> 00:05:02.215
You can engage an audience through description, vivid description.
00:05:02.545 --> 00:05:06.705
You can engage an audience by playing with their curiosity and surprise.
00:05:06.705 --> 00:05:08.525
And certainly Alex does both.
00:05:09.035 --> 00:05:11.715
You can also leverage physicality.
00:05:12.015 --> 00:05:15.275
If you see a magician on stage, there's movement.
00:05:15.285 --> 00:05:16.344
He's moving around.
00:05:16.354 --> 00:05:20.244
He's asking you to watch things so that physicality gets to you engaged.
00:05:20.614 --> 00:05:22.210
There's the language you use.
00:05:22.230 --> 00:05:23.250
Is it inclusive?
00:05:23.260 --> 00:05:25.410
Using the word you, us, or we.
00:05:25.650 --> 00:05:30.490
Getting people to envision things in their mind, as Alex often does, through asking questions.
00:05:30.870 --> 00:05:34.990
These are powerful tools to help your audience get engaged.
00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:37.580
Now, we don't have to be a performer on a stage.
00:05:37.619 --> 00:05:40.089
We can leverage these tools in a meeting.
00:05:40.479 --> 00:05:45.060
We can leverage the storytelling best practices in our everyday conversation.
00:05:45.549 --> 00:05:51.010
Bringing your audience into that moment, helping them see it, feel it.
00:05:51.200 --> 00:05:52.610
That's what gets engagement.
00:05:53.380 --> 00:06:02.749
It's also critical when engaging our audience to make sure that we
are efficient with people's time and we have to be clear and concise.
00:06:03.090 --> 00:06:14.509
And that's where our conversation with Kudzi Chikumbu, who's the head of creator marketing at TikTok
and an influencer who goes by the name, Sir Candleman, where he focuses on fragrance and beauty.
00:06:16.799 --> 00:06:27.414
Kudzi Chikumbu: In the world of short form video, which, you know, where TikTok started,
you can actually upload longer videos on TikTok as well, over a minute and more.
00:06:27.744 --> 00:06:38.614
But I still find what keeps people engaged in the story, whether
it's fifteen seconds, thirty seconds, one minute, five minutes, ten
minutes plus is the same thing, you need to make every second count.
00:06:39.080 --> 00:06:41.920
Which used to be the old TikTok lingo and motto.
00:06:41.950 --> 00:06:44.120
Now it's inspire creativity and bring joy.
00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:48.729
But in fifteen seconds, that same hero's journey applies to ten minutes.
00:06:48.739 --> 00:06:53.655
Meaning in fifteen seconds, what people want to know is what is this video about?
00:06:53.685 --> 00:06:54.555
What is the problem?
00:06:54.555 --> 00:07:05.775
Why are you the person to tell me and how can you help me find the perfect
fragrance for when you are out on the town and trying to find a boyfriend?
00:07:06.095 --> 00:07:08.715
And I'm Sir Candleman, your fragrance curator.
00:07:08.765 --> 00:07:10.464
They know I'm the expert.
00:07:10.515 --> 00:07:11.604
I'm going to tell them this thing.
00:07:11.634 --> 00:07:15.855
These are three fragrances by this one, because X, Y, Z, I can do that in thirty seconds.
00:07:16.145 --> 00:07:18.995
But I can also give you a deep dive of fragrance for an hour.
00:07:19.215 --> 00:07:21.240
Same applies to marketers.
00:07:21.250 --> 00:07:31.419
You can do the fifteen second, thirty second cut, sixty second ad spot, which should effectively
help people understand like what your products or services and why they should engage with it.
00:07:31.609 --> 00:07:38.309
Or you can do the big brand story, documentary,
creative exercise, which should still do the same thing.
00:07:38.589 --> 00:07:47.179
So in all of those things back to make every second count, no part of that
video, whether fifteen seconds or fifteen minutes should be wasted time.
00:07:47.955 --> 00:07:55.065
Matt Abrahams: I'm wondering if you can just summarize for us,
what are the key ingredients from your perspective of a good story?
00:07:55.465 --> 00:08:02.554
Kudzi Chikumbu: I would say a good story has a strong hook or reason to be listened to or heard.
00:08:03.454 --> 00:08:13.524
I think it has a strong entry point for the listener,
the viewer, the reader to find themselves in the story.
00:08:14.194 --> 00:08:19.180
It has enough conflict or a challenge that they're trying to solve.
00:08:19.180 --> 00:08:30.559
So a problem for this person, and then it has a clear arc and resolution where you help
them achieve the thing you promised in the beginning or refer them on to someone else.
00:08:30.840 --> 00:08:43.429
So especially in short form video land, to make this example concrete or social media,
wherever people are posting, when people come across your post, a video, why must I stop?
00:08:43.490 --> 00:08:45.620
Like, what is there that's making me stop?
00:08:45.860 --> 00:08:48.839
Two, who are you and how do I relate to you?
00:08:48.839 --> 00:08:51.569
Meaning then I want to watch and learn more.
00:08:51.980 --> 00:09:00.230
And three, how are you helping me solve whatever it is that
I came to you for or entertain me, inspire me, inform me?
00:09:00.620 --> 00:09:02.790
And then three, do I actually get to that resolution?
00:09:02.800 --> 00:09:04.439
So those are the key parts.
00:09:04.439 --> 00:09:06.140
You can do them fast, you can do them slow.
00:09:06.339 --> 00:09:15.879
And I would say for people looking for a bonus tip, especially in a world where there's
so much content online and you want to shine through, you need to have personality.
00:09:15.969 --> 00:09:17.709
And people would be like, what does that mean?
00:09:17.750 --> 00:09:19.780
It means you just need to be your authentic self.
00:09:19.800 --> 00:09:26.994
By that, I mean, like truly be passionate and truly speak
in the way you speak in a way that other people don't speak.
00:09:26.994 --> 00:09:32.704
It's okay to show yourself in a way that other people don't see,
because that's how you cut through so much of the same content.
00:09:32.744 --> 00:09:36.234
Otherwise you're just another video in a deluge of videos.
00:09:36.755 --> 00:09:42.175
Matt Abrahams: The other thing that Kudzi does, uh, and
I have a little insight as a former student of mine.
00:09:42.395 --> 00:09:54.374
He is amazingly authentic, he is who he is regardless of if he's in his role as the head
of creator marketing at Tik Tok, or if he's in the role of Sir Candleman, he is who he is.
00:09:54.374 --> 00:09:56.454
And authenticity is really important.
00:09:56.464 --> 00:10:02.874
We connect with people we see as real, not people who
are putting on pretense or hiding behind something.
00:10:03.184 --> 00:10:08.104
So it's not just the story you tell, it's the authenticity you bring to the story.
00:10:08.405 --> 00:10:10.614
And that's true in any kind of messaging.
00:10:10.614 --> 00:10:14.755
If you are trying to be persuasive, if you're trying to be in inspirational.
00:10:15.194 --> 00:10:18.484
Being authentic really, truly can help.
00:10:19.395 --> 00:10:23.065
And that's, that in and of itself is the definition of engagement.
00:10:23.115 --> 00:10:31.940
He's got the attention and we see in his stories and his
information ourselves, and that's really a powerful way of engaging.
00:10:33.160 --> 00:10:39.560
Another powerful way of engaging is to really focus in on how you deliver the message you deliver.
00:10:39.610 --> 00:10:45.259
And no one is better at focusing on delivery and timing than standup comedians.
00:10:45.670 --> 00:10:51.650
Our final conversation is with Orlando Leyba, who is a standup comedian.
00:10:51.960 --> 00:11:01.775
He has performed multiple times on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, and he's not
only funny, but he actually tells stories that matter and finds the humor in them.
00:11:01.775 --> 00:11:06.845
And he does so in a very descriptive way that really pulls us in.
00:11:07.314 --> 00:11:12.224
Let's hear a story that Orlando tells that's not only funny but educational.
00:11:15.694 --> 00:11:19.104
Orlando Leyba: The story goes, um, I'm on the road.
00:11:19.194 --> 00:11:21.074
I fly home to visit my mother.
00:11:21.254 --> 00:11:25.434
I grew up in South Florida, uh, tropical place.
00:11:25.484 --> 00:11:29.004
Some people feel like they need to have a passport when they're in South Florida.
00:11:29.424 --> 00:11:33.284
Uh, and, uh, I decided to drive around the old neighborhoods.
00:11:33.284 --> 00:11:36.744
I borrowed my mother's car and I get pulled over by the cops.
00:11:37.104 --> 00:11:39.739
Uh, nothing new, that happens, you know.
00:11:40.099 --> 00:11:43.319
What was strange about this cop was that it was a bicycle cop.
00:11:43.410 --> 00:11:46.449
And I didn't know they could do that.
00:11:46.579 --> 00:11:48.120
I didn't know they could pull cars over.
00:11:48.170 --> 00:11:50.349
I thought they were strictly sidewalk action.
00:11:50.890 --> 00:11:55.390
Maybe someone's getting away by the mall, and they're, I didn't know they could do that.
00:11:55.719 --> 00:11:59.599
Uh, he knocked on my window, scared the bejesus out of me, right?
00:12:00.050 --> 00:12:01.699
And he yelled at me, pull it over.
00:12:01.709 --> 00:12:05.389
He had a little light, he had a little light, so I pulled it over.
00:12:05.929 --> 00:12:10.269
Uh, when I pulled over, he finally pulls up next to me, I rolled down my window.
00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:14.189
He had the typical cop talk, he was talking the cop talk.
00:12:14.190 --> 00:12:15.879
And he was like,
00:12:20.659 --> 00:12:22.979
do you know how fast you were going?
00:12:25.029 --> 00:12:28.789
And I was like, uh, clearly not fast enough.
00:12:29.999 --> 00:12:31.609
And that's the beginning of that story.
00:12:31.770 --> 00:12:32.879
He did not like that.
00:12:33.119 --> 00:12:36.009
He put down his little kickstand and he got off that bike.
00:12:36.079 --> 00:12:36.900
What did you say to me?
00:12:37.439 --> 00:12:43.719
And that's part of a, that's the beginning of a very long journey with that bicycle cop.
00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:46.140
Matt Abrahams: And it goes on and it's very funny.
00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:51.550
But one of the things that I respect so much about your work is you keep a very positive energy.
00:12:51.609 --> 00:12:59.554
How much of that is a conscious choice for you to be
positive and how does that impact the stories you tell?
00:13:00.535 --> 00:13:04.654
Orlando Leyba: You know, I just, I was in, I don't want to say the place.
00:13:05.104 --> 00:13:14.494
But I was in a place where they grow a lot of corn and, uh,
all the audiences were good, except one show, two young men.
00:13:15.119 --> 00:13:16.180
And they're farmers.
00:13:16.800 --> 00:13:26.049
And their energy was our girlfriends or fiancees dragged us here to see you.
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:28.049
They find you funny.
00:13:29.089 --> 00:13:30.479
I don't think you're funny.
00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:36.819
And, um, it took me a solid twenty minutes to get them on my side.
00:13:37.859 --> 00:13:43.460
To get them to uncross their arms, release, lower the testosterone level.
00:13:44.050 --> 00:13:45.589
Because they were younger guys also.
00:13:45.699 --> 00:13:45.910
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:51.710
Orlando Leyba: It's like, I don't mean, they were doing pistol hand gestures.
00:13:52.409 --> 00:13:54.919
I'm talking about how I defend myself with pepper spray.
00:13:55.570 --> 00:13:57.870
Because it's non-lethal, everybody gets to go home.
00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.710
You're going to have to rinse your eyes out for two to three hours.
00:14:01.060 --> 00:14:02.100
But everybody goes home.
00:14:02.950 --> 00:14:03.650
And they're like,
00:14:03.990 --> 00:14:04.430
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:09.030
Orlando Leyba: He's like not me, you know, he's doing hand gestures and one of them was like not me.
00:14:09.030 --> 00:14:12.410
And he does a hand gesture, like, I just use my weapon.
00:14:12.659 --> 00:14:12.929
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
00:14:13.090 --> 00:14:17.330
Orlando Leyba: And then I'm like, yeah, that's uh, you got to live with that.
00:14:17.719 --> 00:14:18.329
I told him.
00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:19.029
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
00:14:19.339 --> 00:14:25.549
Orlando Leyba: You're saying that but it's like, have you ever, and I
asked, have you ever been put in a situation where you've had to use?
00:14:25.699 --> 00:14:25.829
Matt Abrahams: Right.
00:14:26.130 --> 00:14:27.699
Orlando Leyba: He's like, no.
00:14:27.749 --> 00:14:29.200
I said, I know cops.
00:14:29.500 --> 00:14:29.950
Matt Abrahams: Right.
00:14:30.620 --> 00:14:36.209
Orlando Leyba: I know cops, they have had to, they
have quit the force because the mental trauma of it.
00:14:36.259 --> 00:14:36.509
Matt Abrahams: Right.
00:14:36.760 --> 00:14:45.210
Orlando Leyba: You know, and they're just supposedly defending
their lives at the time, you know, um, and, uh, I was like, nah.
00:14:45.210 --> 00:14:45.290
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
00:14:46.180 --> 00:14:48.349
It strikes me.
00:14:48.379 --> 00:14:49.970
I mean, I find this fascinating.
00:14:50.030 --> 00:14:57.170
Um, you know, you're a performer and yet it sounds to
me like you, you're doing more than performing there.
00:14:57.180 --> 00:15:00.829
You're actually trying to connect and maybe even teach a lesson in it.
00:15:01.099 --> 00:15:02.530
Orlando Leyba: I don't say teaching a lesson.
00:15:02.730 --> 00:15:04.150
That's for everybody's journey.
00:15:04.180 --> 00:15:04.710
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
00:15:05.070 --> 00:15:14.020
Orlando Leyba: I just, one of the things that I feel is going to get
me to where I want to go with this career is a fact that, be present.
00:15:15.170 --> 00:15:15.680
Be present.
00:15:15.680 --> 00:15:16.770
Matt Abrahams: And respond to what's happening.
00:15:16.770 --> 00:15:17.130
Orlando Leyba: Yes.
00:15:17.189 --> 00:15:25.040
I'm not just staying quiet while you talk, waiting
for me just so I could just say what I want to say.
00:15:25.110 --> 00:15:34.930
I want to listen, you know, that's why I'm able, I think you might have seen it there,
I'm able to get off the whole joke, address the situation that's happening in real time.
00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:38.389
And then come back and put the train right back on the tracks.
00:15:38.710 --> 00:15:40.310
Matt Abrahams: We talk about storytelling.
00:15:40.750 --> 00:15:47.319
And we've talked a lot in this episode and the one
prior about story, but it's also about the telling.
00:15:47.339 --> 00:15:55.609
And I think he is a great example of how you have a strong presence and
even talks about it, how he has to be present and listen and in the moment.
00:15:55.950 --> 00:15:59.920
Because his audience is not just responding to him, he's responding to them.
00:15:59.930 --> 00:16:01.360
That's what true engagement is.
00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:04.510
It's where both parties are equally involved.
00:16:04.780 --> 00:16:06.170
He varies his voice.
00:16:06.180 --> 00:16:07.690
He slows his pace.
00:16:07.700 --> 00:16:08.900
He speeds it up.
00:16:09.220 --> 00:16:13.670
When you see him perform live, which I have, he uses his body in terms of his gesturing.
00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:18.630
The actual telling the way he shows is critical.
00:16:18.920 --> 00:16:21.580
So that nonverbal presence really matters.
00:16:22.150 --> 00:16:24.660
And I think this brings us full circle.
00:16:25.040 --> 00:16:27.029
We've talked about story.
00:16:27.209 --> 00:16:32.609
In our first episode, we talked about how we frame the story,
how we think about our audience, how we think about emotion.
00:16:32.910 --> 00:16:39.050
And in the second episode, we've talked about how we actually engage in the tools of engagement.
00:16:39.340 --> 00:16:47.220
We've talked about it through the eyes of a cartoonist, a
magician, a social media influencer as well as a comedian.
00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:53.470
And they're all teaching us that by engaging the audience being present, we form a connection.
00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:57.100
That connection has a physiological route to it.
00:16:57.100 --> 00:17:01.050
There are neurochemicals released, but there's also an emotional connection.
00:17:01.520 --> 00:17:03.949
And I really appreciate these learnings.
00:17:03.980 --> 00:17:08.520
And I think we can apply them all to our everyday communication.
00:17:08.930 --> 00:17:22.300
As we wrap up this two part Think Fast Talk Smart series on
unconventional, non-traditional storytellers, one of the things I hope
everyone is taking away is that stories are hidden in plain sight.
00:17:23.345 --> 00:17:26.625
You've heard from several non-traditional storytellers.
00:17:27.125 --> 00:17:30.195
There are many that we encounter every day.
00:17:30.815 --> 00:17:34.315
I challenge all of us to look for the stories.
00:17:34.525 --> 00:17:37.685
Look for the means by which people are telling those stories.
00:17:37.694 --> 00:17:39.015
How are they structuring them?
00:17:39.015 --> 00:17:40.225
How are they engaging us?
00:17:40.755 --> 00:17:48.395
Learn from those and begin to use those techniques in your own
authentic way, in your communication, in your storytelling.
00:17:48.625 --> 00:17:55.860
And in so doing, we will all become more efficient,
more effective, and more engaging in our communication.
00:18:00.170 --> 00:18:03.530
Thank you for listening to this Think Fast Talk Smart miniseries.
00:18:03.800 --> 00:18:08.510
This episode was produced by Jim Colgan, Jenny Luna and me, Matt Abrahams.
00:18:08.870 --> 00:18:10.730
Mix engineering by Mumble Media.
00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:14.505
Special thanks to Don Fraser of the Stanford Storytelling Project.
00:18:15.820 --> 00:18:24.430
If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more about storytelling, please
check out episode 168 with Matthew Dicks and episode 50 with Paula Moya.
00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:33.599
You can hear complete episodes with some of our guests in this
miniseries through our premium offering at fastersmarter.io/premium.
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:44.759
Find more of our episodes on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts and check out
fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter.
