Communicating from the inside out Dr. Mandolen Mull

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Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator Podcast.
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Then grab your growth mindset.
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Let's go.
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Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator Podcast.
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My special treat to have Dr.
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Madeline Mole with me today.
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Dr.
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Mole created Mull momentum to support leaders as they navigate responsibility and regulation with focus on the integration of organizational change, neuroscience, and the individual's lived leadership experience.
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Whether the need is clarity, alignment, credibility, regulation, communication, culture, or leadership identity should be built around the real issues, not just the surface symptoms.
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Yes to all of them.
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Welcome to the show, Dr.
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Mole.
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Thank you so much.
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It has been such a joy getting to talk with you.
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And so I'm thrilled to get to have this opportunity to speak with you on that podcast and kind of share with your audience.
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Well, thanks so much for joining.
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We got so much in alignment, and that's one of those things like even beyond, and we're going to talk about communication, but I think we're going to dive a little deeper than that into some of the neuroscience that you've you've studied, which it all applies to communication one way or another or another, right?
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But let's just kind of start out with the communication thing and then we'll deep dive in there later.
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So in regards to communication, uh the words I stole from LinkedIn is that you provide team development and communication support.
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I thought that was interesting because a lot of your work is dealt in the neuroscience and regulation.
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We'll talk about that.
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But you talk about uh communication support.
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What does that mean?
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Yeah, so actually I see those as going together, really, because what we know is that when we are stressed out because of the world, because of the world of work, because of whatever is happening in our personal lives, because of all of those capacities, um it fundamentally alters our neural pathways, which also has an impact on how our brain is functioning that directly has an impact on how we communicate with others.
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So suddenly, because of stress, I might have a little bit of a shorter patience with you, I might have a sharper tone, I might use fewer words or harsher words.
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Um and I might see aggression or defensiveness from you, or kind of threatening behavior that I wouldn't have normally perceived if I didn't um if I wasn't operating in that environment.
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So when I look at this and I think about that communication support and team support, what I'm trying to create is a neuroeductor, creating awareness of how our biology is changing because of stress and what all of those different types of stressors may be, which there's a lot, even goes into not getting enough food, not enough sleep, all of these types of things that change our biology, which then impacts how our brain is functioning, which then impacts our behavior.
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So a lot of this is that neuroeducation that I do, and then really creating these environments of grace.
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Um, you know, I think, James, if I walk into a company and especially I do a lot of work with construction, um, and if I walk in and I say, hey guys, give each other grace, I'll get a few that are gonna be on board with me.
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But you know, when I start to talk about it from this perspective, and I talk about some of the cognitive biases that we inherently have as human beings, and I illuminate that for folks, what I find is that creates support in how we communicate with each other because all of a sudden we no longer see each other as kind of adversaries, but we can see each other as allies in kind of a mucky, you know, murky type world.
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And we do create that inherent grace for each other um once we have a lot more awareness of that.
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So I do see all of these components actually being integrated together.
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Yeah, and that all and all of that supports better communication.
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Yeah, it really does.
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It really does.
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And and what it does is it is so we have something um called fundamental attribution bias.
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This is a cognitive bias that every single one of us has.
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And it says, I judge you based on your behavior, but I judge me based on my intention.
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So I know that yours truly has had some really good intentions before and just did not stick the landing.
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You know, I mean, uh, like cringy, right?
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However, when I see other people mess up, there's that like, they meant to do that.
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You know, I use the example a lot of times of if I'm driving down the car or down the road and I accidentally cut you off, I'm like, I'm so sorry, I didn't see you.
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But if you cut me off, James, you meant to do that, you saw me coming, you jerk.
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I love that, right?
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And so when I understand that it's very hard to see someone else's intention because it's not visible.
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But if I can get curious about that intention, did this person intend to wake up today to aggravate me or cause complexity?
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Probably not.
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I do again build in that grace.
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I build in a little bit of that space for grace, is what I always refer to it, or grace space.
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Then I'm able to lean into that better and have more effective communication than if I just default to that cognitive bias that we all have.
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You know, recently, and this is probably going a little deeper than I should, but I there was somebody uh within my organization where we were talking about how they had ill intent of their fellow workers and that didn't like hearing that.
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I and I'm one of those kind of having hard conversations, but uh you perceive an ill intent that I don't believe is there, and it a hundred percent ties into the cognitive biases that you were talking about, and when we do that, like that not only affects uh uh communication because you're you're creating this, you know, you don't like me, I am so I don't like you.
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But it goes so much deeper than building being able to connect and being able to be productive.
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There's so much that was tied to that.
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How much have you really dove into like all of those cognitive biases and trying to draw?
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Like, did you see them?
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Are you like a cognitive bias whisperer?
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Yeah, so we do a lot of conversations about those.
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Um, because it ties into things like um imposter syndrome, it ties into things like I mean, a lot of things that are tied into our ego.
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Um, which is human and it's natural, but if we know that it exists, or things like positive, negative asymmetry.
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Positive, negative asymmetry is another cognitive bias that says that negative things are three times more powerfully felt or experienced than something positive.
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So I use, I always use the example when I teach this, talking about I don't like Kevin Bacon.
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Um I saw Kevin Bacon in a movie called Sleepers, where he played just a bad dude.
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Just in in James, I know he is a phenomenal actor.
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I know he's a wonderful philanthropist, but he played that character so convincingly that I cannot see him as anyone else but that terrible character.
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So I have typecast him in perpetuity.
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And I thought about that one day, and it literally popped into my head as I was walking my dogs, this thought, I don't like Kevin Bacon.
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And I was like, that's curious, that's a weird thing to be thinking about.
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Um, and I started to get really inquisitive about this, and I realized that positive-negative asymmetry is at culprit here.
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That because I associate something negative with him, even though I can see these other positives, I continue to condemn him to this one category, that negative thing, because we feel the negative thing three times more powerfully than we do the positive thing.
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That's a cognitive bias that again, if you're working with a colleague who has gotten crossplace with you, and you just can't seem to get past it, or you've tight cast them.
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It might not be because that's really who they are.
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It might be because you've been hijacked by this cognitive bias and you're stuck in that mode and can't get past it.
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You need to do some self-reflection and some work on that to really think about how you get to a collaborative part.
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It may no longer be a them issue.
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And so, yeah, we talk a lot about these types of things because they are inherent, they're not our fault.
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They aren't our fault once we know what they are and we don't do anything about it, but it's not our fault when we don't know it's happening.
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Yeah, I love that.
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One of the tenets of the uncommon communicator is to take ownership of our conversations.
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That's that's been one of the principles that that that we've created throughout this podcast.
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And and I look at that just as being a good communicator is taking that ownership of the conversation because it's born out of you know what, they're just not listening to me.
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You know, I've heard that a lot of times.
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Like, maybe you're not saying it right.
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And then I this is all before I dove into any of the cognitive biases or any of that stuff that you're talking about.
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Then I realized even more, like with that philosophy of, hey, you're not hearing what I'm saying, it's me.
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Once I develop that, and because a lot of times it was like it go what and it's so much harder to say, hey, this is me trying to figure this out than to say, hey, you're not listening.
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You are not listening.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it does.
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It takes a lot, you know.
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I tell people we don't want to relinquish our like we can't, we can't change every situation, all of these types of things.
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But we write, most people are defaulting to relinquishing a lot that is in our power.
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Um, and it's not because we're lazy or trying to take the easy way out.
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We just don't know it.
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And there's also an element, uh, you know, if we don't have this education, but there's also an element of just being fatigued in today's society or our workforces.
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But uh, and that can be a contributing variable there.
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But a lot of times I'm like, guys, once I start to share these cognitive biases and I start to illuminate what's at play, you see people kind of sit back.
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And I have these little cards when I do trainings and I ask people to write a light bulb moment that they had.
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And um, you you can see the light bulbs go off where people are like, oh, uh, yep, I did that.
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You know, and they'll come back the next day and be like, Well, I talked to my spouse about this or something, and they'll, you know, they're like, they can they have the mayor culpa, right?
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That I am guilty.
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They go back and realize, like, wow, it's not my fault that this is a very human cognitive bias we all have.
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And that I can default to it because it's I'm just kind of getting hijacked by it.
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It's kind of biology kind of at play.
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But now that I have this awareness, I can apply intention to overcome this bias.
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I don't have to just default to it.
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I really can harness it and convert it into something usable, not just for myself, but for my team and all of us as we you know go forward.
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And it becomes an incredibly powerful asset, I think.
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Yeah, one of the things that I look for, and I use the word enlightenment, which makes some people uncomfortable, but I use the word enlightenment, and just you talked about light bulb moment, it truly is uh an opening of your eyes, an enlightenment, uh, a recognition recognition, it's an acknowledgement in until you uh you can hear it, uh but you don't accept it.
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But once you hear it, you accept it, uh that changes everything.
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Just identifying that bias uh biases uh is the first step.
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Uh one so there's there's a quote, there's something I got a still quote from you.
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So when leaders understand how stress shapes perception, uh credibility, conflict, and influence.
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So when leaders understand how stress shapes perception, credibility, conflict, and influence, they gain steadiness.
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And steadiness changes everything.
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Can you tell me more about that?
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So the hardest paper I've ever written in my life was in my PhD program.
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My professor, 100% of our grade for the entire course, 16-week course, was to answer one question.
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And the question was, how do you build credibility?
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And, you know, you know, hyperactive mandolins over here going, hey, um, you know, how many paper or pages do you want?
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And what format and how many scholars do I need to cite?
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And da-da-da-da-da.
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And the professor looks at me and goes, Wow, me kid.
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Thanks a lot, bud.
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Real helpful, you know.
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And so I was teaching at the time and I was like polling my students, like, so what does credibility mean to you?
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I I was trying to figure out, you know, and my my classmates would all ask me, Well, you started writing.
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I'm like, leave me alone, I'm not there yet.
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You know, I needed to percolate on it.
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And I really struggled with it, James.
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I really did.
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Until the week before the paper was due, it hit.
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How did I, Mandelin Moore, not anyone else?
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How have I earned credibility?
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Where have I lost it?
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How have I tried to regain it?
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And all of a sudden I started typing like a crazy woman.
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And I ran into my professor's office and I said, Hey, I this is the best paper I've ever written in my life.
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And he said, You are a cocky little thing, aren't you?
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I said, you know, I just believe this.
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I and when I submitted it to him, I said, I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but it is absolutely the paper I needed to write.
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And I have revised that paper.
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I think I'm on the ninth revision now in the last decade.
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Um, I've challenged some of my mentees to it.
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And the reason I come back to this is because insecurity, ego, my own short-sightedness, my, you know, getting wrapped up of which master am I serving?
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Um you know, milestones, metrics that I was trying to hit, all of those types of things obfuscated my ability to genuinely build credibility.
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And what I found is if we don't have credibility, we are dead in the water.
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I cannot hold somebody accountable if I don't have credibility.
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Otherwise, it's just adversarial, right?
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So, so, so much of trying to get people to understand that our workplace stress, all of these things are gonna get us, you know, it we're gonna lose objectivity of what's really important.
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And what's really important is building that credibility and continuing to nourish that credibility throughout.
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So, my question at the end of every day when I go to bed is am I proud of the woman I've presented myself to be?
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And sometimes that answer is no, and I have to go back and figure out where I need to do damage control and understand that I may not get credibility back, but I know for a fact I don't have a prayer of getting it back if I don't own it.
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So, going to your point earlier, owning our conversations, owning these things, but again, kind of defaulting.
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And when I ask people today, how do you build credibility?
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How do you, what are your skills, what are your talents, what how do you walk into a room full of strangers and have them feel at ease to be able to buy into what you are trying to convey to them in the chaos of everything else going on?
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How are you crafting that credibility and nurturing it on you know, ongoing?
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And I have a lot of leaders who really struggle to answer that question.
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And like I said, I did for quite a while.
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Um, so I wasn't going back to illuminating or enlightening on your end.
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Um, that really was that for me.
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And so I think that's so much of my work today is helping leaders understand just how precious building that credibility is and how important it is to protect it and foster it.
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Yeah.
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And so leading up to that, like within that quote, talked a lot about stress and how stress is going to shape all that and how we respond to stress, you know, affect you know, I I think I believe you said your our perception, our credibility, conflict influence, all of those things.
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But you spend a lot of your work in helping people uh become enlightened to how to handle stress.
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Like, what are some approaches that you've done to help uh people deal with stress?
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Because everybody has stress.
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I know you work a lot with the iron workers, like that.
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If you've ever, which I never have, walked a beam 14 stories up, like you don't know the level of stress that construction workers live in every single day.
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Iron workers for sure, but all of the trades like deal with a certain level of stress every day they step onto the job site.
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How have you helped uh how have you helped some folks be able to deal with that?
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Yeah, I work with um union iron workers.
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I also work with first responders.
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So you know, unique situations uh of really different stress than what some of us might be experiencing with an email or something like that, not to diminish the the other capacities of that, but it different variations.
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Um but when we're thinking about really high stress jobs, uh, you know, I can't tell uh a union iron worker to go and meditate for 20 minutes.
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Um, there's certainly research that shows the benefits of it, but what I need to start talking to them about.
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One is I talk about the, I would say it's not logical, it's biological.
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So I explain to them how our primitive brain, our amygdala, is connected, and I'm speaking this pretty simplistic right now, but it it's still technically accurate, connected with our nervous systems, and our nervous systems evolved long before our cognitive brain did, long before our thinking capacity, right?
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So our nervous system is always reading our environments to say, am I safe?
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And it answers that question and sends a message to our amygdala in a fraction of a second, and it is reacting.
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It takes three to five seconds for our more uh advanced part of our brain, our prefrontal cortex, our more complex decision-making part of our brain to come online.
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So, in a fraction of a second, we're reacting, and that's where it goes back to how is stress impacting how my tone shifts, how I use words, how I might see conflict where there isn't conflict because my nervous system reads a threat if I'm already kind of dialed on.
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And so, you know, we've been told our whole lives count to 10.
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We actually don't need to count to 10.
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We really need to count to maybe five or six, but uh 10 is five.
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But the reason why is because it's giving our best part of our brain, our most advanced part of our brain, enough time to catch up so that we're not saying chronically throttled on it.
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So I do start telling them that pause, that there is power in the pause, and why that power in the pause is important.
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Another thing that I teach them uh quite often is the power of diaphragmatic breathing or box breathing, where we're inhaling for four through our nose, holding for four counts, exhaling through our mouth for four counts, holding for four counts.
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And we do a couple of cycles of that, usually three to five cycles.
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And the reason that we do that is because, again, going back to our nervous system, our vagus nerve is the thing that's gonna be kind of controlling how heightened we are in a fight or flight freeze mode, or if we're in a comfortable rest and digest.
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And that vagus nerve runs kind of through our alongside our necks, from our brains, alongside our necks, down through our diaphragm into our digestive tract around some of our organs.
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And when we are taking breaths like that, what it is doing is quite literally massaging that vagus nerve.
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You think about it if we're running for our lives, if we're in high threatened mode, we're taking these big, lovely, luxurious breaths, we're taking short, shallow breaths.
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So it reminded me.
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That when we tell people take deep breaths, like we've heard it our whole lives, and it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's for other people.
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:15.920
But when they understand the science behind it, I find that they go, like, well, that I can use.
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:30.079
If all I can do is get a couple of deep breaths to help again get my nervous system back into a state of safety, allow my prefrontal cortex to come on, and I can have some robust decision making.
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:37.920
I'm back in the driver's seat and not this primitive nervous system that's just scrambling.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:46.720
And that makes a lot of sense to these uh individuals that I work with in the high stress mode or high stress fields.
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.759
Um, we do things like bilateral tapping, we talk about humming.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.960
Humming also helps vibrate that vagus nerve.
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:58.559
Um, you know, we have a bunch of different tools that we use constantly.
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:02.559
Um, getting them to force a yawn, sometimes that helps for them.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:08.319
Feeling where they're having tension, usually in their shoulders, their jaws, trying to relax some of that.
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:16.640
So it's calming down the nervous system, not feeling like you're stuck in that uh contained um sense of self.
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:29.839
So, yeah, we do a lot of very uh micro pragmatic pools that they can do pre-shift, during shift, after shift, on break.
00:23:30.079 --> 00:24:16.559
Um and I have found this is an approach that has been highly effective because it feels you know, it's free, it's very tangible, and they start to see the benefits rather quickly because they start to understand wow, this is something completely in my control that I can take a hold of and implement, and then you know, really dial back how that stress is piling up on me and just loosen it down a little bit so that when the next person comes in and is screaming at me or unhappy or whatever might be happening, instead of me coming all the way up here again, I might bump up a little bit, but I'm I'm no longer just having this.
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:18.720
Um, I use the example.
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:23.359
We want a dimmer switch, we want that nervous system to go up or down.
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:25.920
We don't want it to feel like a toggle, right?
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:30.000
That's too you get people rammed up and then you get the collapse.
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:31.759
That was a lot, sorry.
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.359
Yeah, don't ever apologize for that.
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:38.319
There's I'm I'm uh I have so many questions.
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:46.960
Uh and I know from my own experience, like look looking back before I even knew about the science of the vagus nerve and a lot of that, those deep breathing techniques.
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:50.079
I was working with a guy and he was just all wound up.
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.400
I'm like, Dave, uh take a breath.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.200
And he goes, like he's just kind of mocked me a little bit.
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:57.599
I'm like, no, wait, I looked him right in the eye.
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:00.880
I'm like, taking a big deep breath and let it out.
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:02.960
And that was just the one breath, right?
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:12.480
And literally on his face, you could see it change, like the stress that he was carrying at the time with one tiny little breath.
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.880
And that's something that I've found like for myself.
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.400
I'm if you go through how people handle emotions, I'm a stuffer.
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:19.920
You're typically not gonna find mine.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:24.960
I found more emotion in the last five years than I knew I had in 30 six years before then.
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:35.519
In having uh the ability to regulate those through types of breathing, sometimes considered a little hippie.
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:42.640
But once I was able to look at the neuroscience of it, look at the especially the Vegas nerve stuff, there's something powerful to that.
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:48.160
But when when I'm working with construction folks, and I'm like the Navy SEALs do this.
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:58.160
Oh Jacko Wilnick and like that whole theme of here's a guy who is would come across as kind of a knucklehead um you know, military guy.
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:01.839
He's the most emotionally intelligent, regulated person that I've seen.
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:05.599
And he doesn't come he doesn't appear that way, but he's he he sounds that way.
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:12.799
And he does that through a lot of that skill training of really deep breathing, the you know, definitely the box breathing.
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:16.079
I do some other breathing techniques, and you think you don't need it.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:18.799
Like I I I don't you wouldn't know that I'm stressed.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.000
Uh that's what I hear a lot from people, but it's eating me up inside.
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:36.799
So being able to realize myself, like a lot of times before I go out for an event or if I'm speaking, um, a lot of times I'm not you know, it it's not gonna it's not gonna bugger me up like it does some people, uh, but it's gonna affect me in a different way.
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.000
And I find myself it's like, oh, here I am, not breathing.
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:52.079
And that's just in I I would say not even a life or death situation, but public speaking, communicating, speaking out loud, speaking your opinions, feels like that life or death situation.
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:53.519
Like you're gonna get attacked.
00:26:53.599 --> 00:27:03.440
And that's why I'm such a big fan in communication, of people learning to uh be able to regulate, breathe, stand up for yourself, you know, speak.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:08.480
You know, a lot of times the person who says the least has the most profound thing to say.
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.559
And if we don't give them space to say it, we're never gonna hear it.
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:17.359
And or give them the ability to be able to stand up and say those things.
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:26.160
Uh that so that's kind of the mission I have is getting people to be able to share their profound wisdom with the world.
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:29.519
Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:53.039
And I have found that, you know, I will challenge uh a lot of the folks that I train, of even if they just do diaphragmatic breathing, so belly breaths with longer exhales, you know, um, if I can get them to, you know, inhale through the nose, longer exhale through the mouth, do it in the morning before they get out of bed, do it at night um as they go to sleep.
00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:59.359
Um, and then challenge them to drink a glass of water as soon as they wake up in the morning because our brains are dehydrated when we wake up.
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:25.279
And I'm like, if you just do that for me for a week, like just do that for me for a week and just see what that's doing of how you're feeling stress um and how your behavior is how much more in control you feel of your behavior and how you know you're communicating better with folks, you feel more present in what you're dealing with, and you know, just kind of rushing.
00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:28.400
And you know, it just never fails.
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:30.799
I get the feedback all the time, but they're like, dog.
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:33.920
That was all like that's all I've been doing.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:35.759
And now I'm starting to do it more and more.
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:41.200
And I'm like, yes, yeah, you know, and and I was I was a skeptic myself.
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.319
You know, I always was that person like, I don't have time to meditate.
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.640
I don't have time, you know, and I tell them all the time, I'm not trying to make you zen.
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:58.160
I'm just trying to put you back in the driver's seat where your best thinking brain is at full force and at the forefront.
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:02.240
Not that you're just completely hijacked by biology.
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:08.400
And unfortunately, so many of us have have, you know, day in and day out lived those lives.
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:21.680
Um and so now that they're getting the narrow education, we do start to see just these tiny little simple tweaks that they can add really are very, very profound and beneficial.
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:24.799
And it's it's thrilling to get to see it.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:48.640
Um and you know, in our field in academia, you know, for years and years we talked about workplace well-being, and we it you know, manifested into like people doing the 5K or better food in the in the cafeteria, you know, and I would get so frustrated because I was like, these people are like your metrics are getting more and more insane.
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:55.759
Um, you know, I've yet to hear someone say, you guys all did a fantastic job of meeting the metrics last quarter.
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.400
As a reward, let's dial it down, you know, 15% next quarter.
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:04.240
Like, you know, the reward is more brown, right?
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:05.039
More stress.
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:08.400
And so it's just a fundamental issue.
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:15.440
And as leaders, we are starting to understand we are working with folks today whose brains are not the same.
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:20.559
Our own brains are not the same as they were five, 10 years ago.
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:30.799
We have to have that recognition and then start really meaningfully uh creating some spaces uh to create change like this.
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:34.559
Yeah, I would a couple of things I wanted to tag in on.
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:49.519
I just wanted clarity on the diaphragmatic uh breathing for the audience because once I realize that I'm only using half of my lungs most of the time, and then when I when when you breathe and you feel it in the in your back, like it's it's weird, it's a weird physical uh uh feeling.
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:51.680
Like I like I wasn't using my lung.
00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:01.680
And when you when we're when I go into stress mode, most people you you use less of that, and then that's what it all creates this kind of um uh uh comments.
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:16.960
And once I found diaphromatic breathing specifically just for the audience, it's being able to breathe in, and then you breathe in deeper all the way until you feel your lungs almost completed in your back, you know, finding that full breath, it's changed a lot of things in my life.
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:39.680
And in addition to just um talking about that that regulation, you know, being able to uh feel that, like try it out because it almost it's not a dopamine, and maybe you know whatever is hormone is it's not a dopamine hit, like we're so used to and or the excitement of our job, the energy, all of that, like it's a dopamine hit of of uh energy.
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:40.480
It's different.
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:43.839
I don't want to use serotonin because I really don't know.
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:58.480
But it's a different once you start doing that, your body starts craving that one because you're like, oh, I need this, I need to calm myself down, I need to feel that my body, you know, my body is craving that relaxation.
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:03.759
Well, we do have neurotransmitters that are occurring when we start to relax.
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:14.319
The other part of that is is so a heightened amygdala where I was saying earlier that that's the kind of a fetter uh uh fight or flight freeze kind of uh component there.
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:19.279
The more stressed we are, the more sensitive the amygdala is.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:20.480
So this sucks, right?
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:26.480
Yeah, I always think about, you know, I went when I went into a private Christian school, so I always talk about the beginning, right?
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.960
I'm like, so stress begets more stressed, right?
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:30.640
There's so much of that, right?
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:31.920
And that's true.
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:36.400
So the height amygdala then sees threat where threat doesn't exist.
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:54.880
And that goes back into how it affects our communication, our ability to navigate conflict, our ability to work as a team, because we can become quite isolationist if we're in kind of threat mode, even though we might not look around us and go, well, I I don't feel threatened.
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:56.880
Your nervous system might.
00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:01.519
Your nervous system is reading a lot of different things, and its job is to keep you alive.
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:15.680
So when you're talking about like having that diaphragmatic breathing, and I oftentimes think of it as almost opening your ribs like an umbrella, you know, you're just trying to spread out your belly and your ribs and your back to your point, all of those things like an umbrella.
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:19.920
And then you have a longer exhale um out through your mouth.
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:34.960
When you do that, doing a couple of diaphragmatic breathing, and again, as you go to bed in the uh at night, when you wake up in the morning, if that's the only time you can fit it in, what that is doing is calming down the amygdala.
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:58.559
It is helping create the neural pathways going back towards your prefrontal cortex, it's calming down that nervous system reactivity, it's giving you a lot more of that agility, that kind of dimmer switch versus this just straight up topogal switch of your nervous system either being like, you know, through the roof or down.
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:00.559
And it really does.
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:22.079
So you're building in a lot of dexterity and flexibility of your nervous system when you are having a lot more control through something as simple as breath work, but that is because of its connect to the biggest nerve and then how that is being perceived in your brain of what feels like a threat.
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:26.079
Again, when we're agreeing for our lives, we have tunnel vision.
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:29.360
Um, and we don't, we're not taking deep breaths.
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:36.800
So tunnel vision is part of the grounding work when we tell people to look around the room.
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:37.840
What do they see?
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:39.840
What do they smell, what do they feel?
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:41.039
All of those things.
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:48.719
The reason we're trying to bring people back in, you don't see that when your nervous system is kicked into high gear.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:35:02.639
And we have a lot of leaders out there right now, James, a lot of workers, that they have tunnel vision, they're taking shallow breaths, they are just chronically running as if they are running for their lives.
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:18.719
And once we start to have them do some of these biological techniques, these physiological techniques, it starts to build back in that dexterity that does create a lot more of a continual calmness.
00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:23.199
And then again, yeah, you can't get you can't eliminate stress, it's gonna come.
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:33.679
But your reaction to that stress feels so far less impending um than if you weren't practicing these small techniques.
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:37.599
You know, this probably ties right into my next question.
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:42.159
So I lead a lot of leaders, I lead people who lead people.
00:35:42.400 --> 00:36:02.719
And uh one thing that you talk about is the quiet weight of responsibility, and I think it ties right into what you're talking about because it it's almost an unspoken weight that falls with any any level of responsibility, all the way down to the guy who has to get the work done and in place because the boss is on them or whatever it is.
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:11.119
Like, how do you what do you is this are these the ways that you work with the quiet weight of responsibility, or what are some more things that you can add to that?
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:12.239
Well, that whole topic?
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:14.639
That's that's a heavy those are heavy words.
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:27.519
They are, it really is, because you know, when I say I don't teach people how to be a leader, um, I teach them how to deal with the responsibility or the stress of being a leader because it is an invisible weight.
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:36.079
And unfortunately, we see a lot of folks, um, you know, you have to hear someone say they want to be a crappy leader, but we see a lot of crappy leaders.
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:46.719
And the reason being, I think a lot of times as we get in our own way, some of it is these cognitive biases, some of it is a lot of it is insecurity, imposter syndrome.
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:50.559
Hey, I've got this position now, I've got a I've got a lot writing on it.
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:53.280
I don't want to fail, I don't want to let people down.
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:58.719
So I posture, I fake it till I make it instead of earning it until I learn it.
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:01.519
You know, these kinds of things.
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:08.079
Um and so I start to bring that forward in particular with iron workers.
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:19.920
I train a lot of whether they are iron worker instructors, iron worker business managers, business agents, coordinators, uh, presidents, and I'll ask them.
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:22.639
You know, these things all went through an apprenticeship.
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:25.440
And I know you know there are many centership roles.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:27.840
Many of them had to get elected for it.
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:31.199
And so there's an element of threat there, right?
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:36.239
Like if I don't do well, I'm gonna lose my role, and that's a part of their identity.
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:38.719
So that can feel very, very threatening.
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:52.880
Um, and so I'll say, well, how many of you knew when you took on this job that you were also going to be a marriage counselor, a financial advisor, clergy, you know, and they're like, what you're telling.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:57.519
And I think it's true for most leaders, not just the most common.
00:37:57.760 --> 00:37:59.760
I think it's really true for a lot of us leaders.
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:14.159
We care about our people, but we woefully equipped to understand when we have people coming into our offices or contacting us and struggling with very human things.
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:18.559
You know, so for me, I go in and I share my story.
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:23.360
And my story is I I grew up with someone whom I loved very, very much.
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:25.840
My father was a masterstone mason.
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:28.559
Um I dropped out of high school, went to work.
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:32.400
Um, he had never seen healthy coping mechanisms model for him.
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:34.000
He grew up really voteful.
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:41.280
And it manifested in alcoholism, a lot of anger, um, affairs.
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:52.880
Um, and the complexity of that um had an impact on me of learning to really love him and learn a lot of him, his leadership.
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:57.039
Um, although he talked to his crew differently than I wish he would have.
00:38:57.199 --> 00:38:59.840
But they were incredibly loyal to him, you know.
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:07.199
Um and then, you know, I went away to college, I became a massive workaholic.
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:12.480
Um, I got diagnosed with severe home disease um very early.
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:20.480
I uh suffered a brain injury during my PhD where I had a bunch of walking topic and suffered a pregnancy loss.
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:31.519
Um, I was an unexpected foster mom and raised a little girl from 10 weeks to 27 months when she was abruptly reunited with her biome mom.
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:35.360
I haven't heard anything of how she's doing in 10 months.
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:52.719
And so share these types of stories with folks, not as a woe as Magdalene, but to say, I don't think I'm the only person in the room who has tried to put food on the table and earn a paycheck while also navigating life.
00:39:53.679 --> 00:40:01.039
And and I see folks recognize themselves in parts of my story.
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:03.679
And they'll start to share.
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:11.679
You know, I was ones of 17 people, and in those 17 people, two people had lost their wives in the last year.
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:20.400
One's wife was battling stage for cancer, another gentleman had actually beaten cancer and went back to work and talked about how nobody would make eye contact with them.
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:23.920
They didn't know, they didn't know how to connect with them, right?
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:34.400
And it felt very isolating from another gentleman had to fight for his freedom for two years to the court system, didn't know if it was going to be sent away to prison.
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:38.159
Um we talked about how people would tell him, just don't think about it.
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:42.400
You know, there's the chatter going on and they still got to go to work every day, right?
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:49.599
So we have these very real human conversations because I'm like, that's the invisible weight.
00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:54.480
That's the stuff that we've been told, leave it at the door, but you can't.
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:57.360
It's still sitting on you and it's carrying on you.
00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:01.440
And I know for me, I thought I could work my way out of it.
00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:11.119
I thought if I just went to work every day uh and and got all the awards and the accolades, it would I it come out of the watch.
00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:13.119
And it really didn't.
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:17.440
Um, it led to a massive amount of nervous dysregulation.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:22.079
Um and so I had to do a lot of healing for myself.
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:49.280
And so that's a lot of the work that I talk about with the leaders I train, is we all have human experiences that we're carrying while we're trying to nurture and develop other people carrying their human experiences, and when we start to see that commonality in each other, again, we create space for grace.
00:41:49.599 --> 00:42:06.800
We we we don't we can still get frustrated and annoyed and all those things, but man, do we start to build in a lot more capacity for compassion, for patience, for understanding, and for true, meaningful development.
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:14.159
And I think that's the key for how we're going to navigate um the new world of work.
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:22.559
Because the new world of work, I personally think is far more human than what we've seen in past in past generations.
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:23.599
Yep.
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:29.519
Yeah, you just so I think you're on the cutting edge of where where we have to go.
00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:43.119
I think it's this generation that's I mean, a lot of the words, uh the word house, I'll use the word, uh, that my company uses is in all based on that same idea that you're out there promoting as well, too, which is we have to do this differently.
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:49.119
And I think what you're talking about is a way that's different, that leaves an impact, that really connects on the human side.
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:53.119
And so this is really exciting that you're out there and and spreading that message.
00:42:53.360 --> 00:43:00.000
Um just to kind of to wrap up too, kind of my next question kind of brings it back home to what you do.
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:04.800
Uh, but uh what I liked in in your bio uh you have two is nots.
00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:23.760
And I love when people clarify like I am not this or this or this or this, because it's important for people because it can it can be applied in there, but you're two is nots, and because there's the only two in there, so I know they're very important to you, but this is not therapy, uh, and it is not motivational rhetoric.
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:32.000
And on the rhetoric, like I think on so many of those personal messages, like you walk away pumped that day, and the next day, it's like, what did you talk about?
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:38.880
Um, but but when you look at things that impact people's lives, that's the message that you want to bring, that people want to bring.
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:40.239
So I think that one's easy.
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:44.159
It's not motivational rhetoric, it's certainly not, it's not therapy.
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:49.119
Uh, and that's why I think there's this kind of it feels like it's on the edge of therapy, and it's really not.
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:59.760
And what what it is, and this you also said one it is uh it's thoughtful, uh science informed leader development for people carrying out real content.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:00.800
Consequences.
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:02.719
So that kind of wraps up what you do.
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:10.400
Do you want to give us a little more background on that and kind of tell us, and you can kind of lead into what uh momentum consulting does?
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:24.159
Yeah, you know, it's what I tell people, it's so often what I think we misattribute as a character flaw is truly a nervous system injury that has been intended.
00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:28.639
And through no fault of folks.
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:34.800
Um, because I use the analogy of this, and I I recently got this feedback from somebody who goes, that is a great analogy.
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:36.000
So I'm gonna use it.
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:43.440
And I always say that if you put a healthy goldfish in a dirty fishbowl, pretty soon you no longer have a healthy fish.
00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:46.559
And the sad thing is the fish thinks it's its fault.
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:53.760
And I'm like, our world today, a lot of the distraction, a lot of the things pulling out on is it's pretty unhealthy.
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:56.639
It's pretty murky in murky waters.
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:02.639
And so we've got to be thinking about how are we intentionally cleaning that water around us and we're doing it for each other too.
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:03.840
Because fish are disgusting.
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.519
We've got enough fish in the bowl, they're gonna do gross things.
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.960
So we've got to think about how are we cleaning it for each other?
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:22.159
Parts of it are those small things that we talked about with nervous system regulation techniques, because we are our brothers keeper, or we all are walking each other home.
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:23.760
I fundamentally believe that.
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:32.639
We live in a world that we have so much research on this that is more isolated and lonely than what we've experienced in the past.
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:43.519
But I do see a shift, a craving for these very human connections where people are saying, I've experienced something to help.
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:51.440
I don't want pity, I don't want an excuse, I just need validation and understanding.
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:59.360
And I need people to appreciate that out of 365 days out of the year, I'm gonna take a few on the chin.
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:06.320
So I need to figure out what my healthy coping mechanism is for me to get back to home base.
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:08.880
And so I call those touchdowns.
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:15.440
And that's what I challenge a lot of leaders with, is where I say, how do you regulate yourself after a bad day?
00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:17.039
You're gonna have a few of them.
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:28.159
You know, uh last week I had one, and sure enough, I was curled up on that couch with a fluffy pink blanket watching Moonstruck, because that is one of my coping mechanisms, right?
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:38.079
And I'm like, I know that doesn't work for other people, but man does share an Olympia to caucus every time that it's my jam.
00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:42.400
Also, you know, reading from me really, really is comforting.
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:49.199
Rocking in a rocking chair, there are certain things that I find to really regulate and soothe me.
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:54.960
But I have I find that a lot of people do not know what that feels like in their body.
00:46:55.119 --> 00:47:09.360
And so I challenge them not to deflect, not to distract, not to no, we're really good at all those things, but to actually remember what safety and comfort feels like in their body.
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:14.800
And then find those touchstones, find several of those of how they can get back to that.
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:20.559
So with momentum, we do group training, customize, everything we do is customized, right?
00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:22.559
Because it's not a one-size-fits-all.
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:26.559
I don't know how to help folks until I start working with them.
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:30.159
I, you know, I don't get to dictate what's valuable to others.
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:34.239
I wish I could, because I'd give it to them if I could right away.
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:46.480
But it's working and crafting training alongside folks, figuring out what their pain points are, and then helping them find those anchor points, those touchstones so they can develop further.
00:47:46.639 --> 00:48:08.880
Um, we do keynotes, we do one-on-one on, I call it mentoring, I like uh as opposed to coaching, because I think there really is an element of sometimes you need a coach to give you strategy, a cheerleader to cheer you on, a teammate to give you resources, a ref to keep you in bounds, or an opponent to be a little grit for your pearl that you're farming.
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:14.159
Um, and depending on which one I need to be at that time, I can be that for you.
00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:22.639
Um and so, yeah, we just try to meet people where they are and have them lead by design, no longer by default.
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:25.679
Uh, so that's that's kind of how we sum it up.
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:26.800
I love it.
00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:28.559
Love that goldfish analogy too.
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:31.199
I'm gonna steal that because that is so true.
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:33.599
And uh didn't you put enough fish in the water?
00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:35.119
They're gonna dirty the water.
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:38.079
I love that hole and that is a that is a great analogy.
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:41.679
Uh stealing that one.
00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:45.760
So why don't uh while we wrap up, I've got two more questions for you.
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:48.719
But uh how can the listeners get a hold of you?
00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:50.960
Anything that you tell them, we will put down.
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:55.440
I think that's always down in the show notes so they can reach out and contact you.
00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:56.719
Perfect.
00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:00.159
So I am at um momentum.com.
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:12.639
Um our email is on there, our social media uh links are on there, uh our phone number, uh, all of those things you can get a hold of me and my team.
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:15.440
Um we want to be able to support folks.
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:23.360
I do think that we're all up against some kind of nasty stuff, but I am incredibly optimistic that we are in the right direction.
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:26.239
No, you 100% you're in the right direction.
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:31.920
The rest of the world better get behind you because you are you are leading the charge in the right direction.
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:34.320
So I've got two questions we'll wrap it up with.
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:39.199
Uh the first question is what does the world get wrong about Dr.
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:40.800
Mandolin Mohl?
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:45.519
Oh, oh, that's a great question, James.
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:51.119
Um I, you know, so it's funny.
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:57.920
I I teach uh at in university and I tell students, uh, I teach sometimes about consulting.
00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:08.559
Um, and my students will ask, Project, well, why do you always kind of come from the premise that people don't want a consultant in their building?
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:20.000
And I said, because we're paying for the sins of past consultants who probably meant well themselves, but they were kind of maybe out of the box packaging.
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:28.480
They potentially um never gave out their cell number, weren't really that reachable, weren't seen again.
00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:31.760
I go, you know, my teammate, we break bread with our clients.
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:35.360
We have clients we've worked with, you know, for for years and years.
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:37.440
We have a lot of repeat clients.
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:43.679
And one of the best compliments I've ever received was someone said, You're not a consultant, you're our consultant.
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:45.679
I was like, yes, yes, I am.
00:50:46.960 --> 00:50:54.400
So I think um unfortunately, and we make the joke of that in consulting, uh, that nobody really knows what a consultant does.
00:50:54.480 --> 00:51:05.280
And I always say, I don't know it until I'm working with people, I'm figuring out those pain points, crafting how we can create something that's tangible for them.
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:08.400
And I ask leaders to hold me accountable to that.
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:11.440
Um I firmly believe in that.
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:16.320
Um, and so I think that's you're customized consultants.
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:17.599
We're scrappy.
00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:22.320
Uh, we do a little bit of a different type of strategy in the work that we do.
00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:26.239
Um, but I really believe that that's the right way to move the needle.
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:28.000
Yeah, that's a good answer.
00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:29.599
Like people get that wrong, right?
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:32.880
That's what people get wrong about you is the word consulting scares them off.
00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:34.559
You're you're so much more than that.
00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:37.440
You bring so much more value than that, and you have to show it.
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:38.960
And so that's a great answer to that.
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:42.960
And then finally, like, as you spoke over 50 minutes, like what's the one thing?
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:43.920
You know, you know how it is.
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:47.519
You're you can give a keynote speech, and if you're lucky, they walk away with one thing.
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:52.880
Like, what would you like the listeners to to walk away with from our conversation today?
00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:56.719
I want to come back to saying it's not character flaw.
00:51:56.880 --> 00:52:13.920
If you're dealing with stress, if you're finding that you're having shorter um patience with folks, your words are sharper than you intend, you kind of you know feel like you're tiptoeing around that one colleague when you really should probably just clear the air.
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:15.840
It's not a character flaw.
00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:30.719
I think uh a lot of people are carrying that invisible weight of nervous system injury, and you need to tend to it and really spend some time nurturing that uh through these techniques that James and I talked about today.
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:47.119
Um, I think you'll be really surprised at how uh well that will help you and how much of an impact it will help you regain a lot of that control and composure that you rightfully deserve, as do the people around you.
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:48.320
I love that.
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:50.800
Tend to that invisible weight people.
00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:53.840
That is a great wrap-up of everything that we've had here.
00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:54.320
Dr.
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:56.480
Mole, so glad you were able to join me.
00:52:56.559 --> 00:53:02.719
What a great conversation! I still think there's a thousand avenues we could still go down, but thank you so much for joining the show.
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:04.400
And that's all we've got for today.
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:05.440
Say goodbye.
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:07.360
Congratulations.
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:09.119
You made it all the way to the end.
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:10.800
You're officially a one percenter.
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:14.480
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Uncommon Communicator with me.
00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:18.159
Make sure you like and share this episode.
00:53:18.320 --> 00:53:20.960
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00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:24.000
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