Creative Pasta, Real Hospitality. Teds thoughts with David Ramsey

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Hi, I'm Ted Sharmer, founder of One Voice Hospitality, and I've been in the game for over three decades.
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In fact, I've worked it out.
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I actually started in January 91, so I think I've exceeded 35 years.
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Did you say in the game or on the game?
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I love public speaking, and in fact I love the people and characters in my industry.
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It's in the nature of hospitality to talk and engage and likewise property people to network.
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So loving the chat and the sector meant only one thing a podcast.
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So bring them all together.
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There's plenty of successes and at the same time plenty of struggles.
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I think it's important to share our worlds with you.
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So over this series I'm going to talk to some of the industry's leading figures, hear their stories, and really make this a conversation starter for our industry.
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So please subscribe for the ongoing series if you haven't already.
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And I hope you enjoy it.
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So if you can hear in the background there's a bit of music, a bit of chatter.
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We're in a very, very sexy Banconi Soho with a fellow that likes hats nearly as much as me.
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I would say more.
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More, I would agree with that more.
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And we we're kind of, I'm not going to quite say brothers from another mother, but we share some quirky natures in our glasses.
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Hat and glasses collections that are way too large for men of our age where we should be subdued and demure.
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Well, well, well said, sir, but you know, we carry on as we are.
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We do.
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And just just to introduce you, uh I'm sitting with the lovely, charming man of many hats, David Ramsay, co-founder of Many Hats Made Glasses, co-founder of Banconi, as well as many other amazing food and beverage, oh I hate that term.
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As well as other many other hospitality experiences that um that people have grown to know and love.
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Well, firstly said welcome to Banconi and thank you, very kind.
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Thank you, sir.
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Um we're both smiling on this rainy day uh that's hit us on uh beginning of Tuesday, the 8th of September.
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So uh summer is over, but the sun is shining in Banconi, obviously.
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Um, and I I wanted to sit down with you, as I have with others, to explore your journey and maybe you can tell us what what started your interest in hospitality?
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Because I know I know that's not where you started, but what what happened?
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Yeah, well it's interesting.
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I chat with my wife about this quite a lot because my mum can't really cook.
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Uh my dad told me she was the best cook in the world, she really wasn't.
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Uh so I didn't really grow up in a household where hospitality was even that prevalent.
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We used to go to the harvester of a Sunday and order the roast chicken.
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Uh, and that was kind of hospitality for me growing up.
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You know, and it's it's it's interesting now.
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I sort of look at my kids who are sort of grown up, and they've grown up with all these crazy and amazing and wonderful sort of cuisines and restaurants in their lives.
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And I think I had my first Thai meal when I was at university, so it was probably about, I don't know, 19 or 20.
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That was a pot noodle.
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No, no, it was actually it was actually right.
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There's a there's a long story about me getting to fight and getting beaten up, and all I could have was soup uh because they broke my jaw.
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Right, okay, oh dear.
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And uh yeah, uh but sorry, our coffees have just turned up.
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Yeah.
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Thank you, Mihail.
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Um, so yeah, so you know, it wasn't really where I sort of started from.
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I think I think my love affair with hospitality sort of started when I first started working in London, aged whatever I was, 21, 22.
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First job.
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Um, I was working for a little consultancy firm off Maribone High Street.
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We had a lot of, you know, we had a lot of really cool clients.
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We did a lot of work with people like Orange Um and Mitchell and Butlers as they are now, but it was Bass.
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Uh and actually my first, my first, literally my first job out of the university.
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I used to do a lot of um, I suppose that no, I suppose actually, when I was at university, a lot of events, a lot of promoting, a lot of nightclubs, a lot of um Mayballs.
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So that's probably where it started in one sense, but that wasn't really about food, that was about having a good time and being a student, and honestly meeting girls.
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Uh, and that was a lot of fun.
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Uh so that that actually was in my sort of 19, 20, 21-year-old sort of self.
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Uh, I think then when I started working in London, sort of like with what I'd call you know proper job, um, we started taking, you know, I did a lot of work for Bass as they were.
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The first job I actually ever did, first day, first day of the job, was uh Bass were looking at opening, we worked on the sort of like the creation of all by one and the first few sites.
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And my my literally my first job, first afternoon, first day of being a grown-up in Inverti Farmers, was to wander around Marybone on a pub crawl, uh, basically telling Bass who the competition was, what they were doing, restaurants, pubs, cafes, everything.
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They were they're opening a site on Paddington Street.
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Uh, and the only advice my boss then gave me was drink half pints, not pints.
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Uh, because you've got a long afternoon of it.
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And he was right.
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My notes by the end of the day were entirely illegible, completely incomprehensible, but I had a great afternoon.
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Uh so it kind of started there, but also we we took out we took clients out to um sort of like what I'd call like proper restaurants, and that was probably my first real taste of fine dining and sort of you know real food.
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And I remember we used to go to the orrery quite a lot at the top of Maribone High Street, um Galvin, which was actually at that point on Maribone High Street.
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I remember it was one of the coolest places I ever went to.
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It was, you know, the first time I went there, I couldn't find it.
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I think it was on the first floor above, um, I can't remember what it was above now, but you could you're walking down the street, you could hear the clatter of cutlery and the chatter, and you're like, where is it?
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It was just this little door that took you upstairs, and it was this incredible restaurant with this, you know, just a quality of food that I hadn't really experienced before.
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And I I just really got into it.
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And I think my passion sort of is a bit broader than just hospitality.
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I've always worked in my career sort of like uh you know, in in brands and the consumer sector in one shape, form, or another.
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Um from consultancy, I got quite quickly into private equity and working for funds, investing in consumer businesses.
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Um that's kind of where it's sort of really, really started for me.
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So I always used to say there's a sign above St.
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Christopher's Place, which if you go past, it's like it's etched in stone and this archway that's quite easy to miss.
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But I used to work on Wigmore Street, so I passed it a lot, and it says food, fashion, fun.
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And that's kind of what I adopted as my little business card, what I do.
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Um so I was in private equity investing predominantly in food, fashion, and fun.
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Uh, and that was probably takes me up to about 2011-12.
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We, you know, I was worked with a fund that back then was called Near Capital, we invested in poor bakeries, we've actually a lot of private equity guys say they're hands-on, they're not.
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We actually really were.
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We we kind of ran pull ourselves and took that from two to 28 sites in four years.
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I learned a lot about scaling hospitality businesses, I learned a lot about keeping the quality by doing that.
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We also invested in a brand called Lageret, which we took from four sites in Paris to I can't really number, probably about 40 uh globally.
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Um, first in London, which was what's now the private cafe in Harrods.
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So we we basically, in fact, we we we created that space by concreting over what was a ramp down into a sort of a warehouse area underneath Harrods, and it was just dead space in Knightsbridge.
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Um, and our fired, there's a crazy story about literally bumping into our fired with the food director who basically told us no, no, no, no, no.
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We've no space here, we don't want to do it, no, no, no.
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And uh it wasn't me, but one of my colleagues pitched to our fired, why don't we concrete over the ramp?
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And he said, That's a great idea, do it, and that was it.
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And I can't remember how many months later, four months later, there was a Ledger A trading there, uh, and that was incredible.
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So I learned I learned a lot from the people I worked with.
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Um, I learned a lot from the the guys in the funds at NEO.
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They were, you know, they were interesting people, um, but there was some great stuff, and we had a lot of success with food to start with.
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Um I sort of came out to become what I'd say is an entrepreneur, for want of a better word, as much as anything, in 2011.
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So that's like 15, 16 years ago almost now, it's the beginning of 2011.
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Uh having done quite a lot of eyewears and glasses and sunglasses, a bit of food with things like Paul and Lagerie.
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We also invested in a brand called Obico, if anyone remembers that.
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I think there's still a few of them dots around London, but that's mostly in Italy and the US and Turkey and places like that these days.
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Um I probably focused the first few years.
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No for no real reason other than it's where the opportunities do themselves in sort of fashion and sunglasses and some stuff for Linda Farrow.
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I did adventure with the founders of All Saints, uh, where we kind of tried to do it again, but a bit more westward as I used to call it.
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It was a bit more funky and punky.
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Uh it was cool.
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Uh, and then I was on the board of in fact I was chairman of a brand called House of Hackney, so I was doing all this sort of stuff.
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And actually, my first restaurant on my own was a little business called Stacks Diner in Kingley Court, where we were the Halal kings of burgers and fried chicken, and we actually got the 2019 award of Best Halal restaurant in London in the Halal Food Awards, which I thought was incredible because it was burgers and chicken, and I was very pleased with it, but slightly scared that we really were the best food in London when we were doing some great burgers and great chicken, but that's what it was.
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Um and that was actually I opened that on a bet uh with someone that I couldn't do something better than actually Obica.
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Uh and I couldn't, and there were sort of like two or three beds, it was like I couldn't do same bed and obaco, we couldn't do it for less than a certain amount of money, which we did.
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Uh, and it was an incredible experience.
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I mean it was 42 covers and a postage stamp-sized um first floor unit in Kingney Court, and we were turning those covers literally 12 to 14 times a day on a Saturday.
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We had you know, we've mastered the art of virtual cues, uh, you know, because it's on the first floor when we actually had a physical queue, which was pretty typical for us.
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Uh it was blocking fire exits and all that sort of thing.
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So we kind of worked out how to have cues without having cues.
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There was lots of lots of challenges, lots of fun, really exciting.
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And that ran its course for 10 years and that was great.
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Um and somewhere along the way, I remember sort of talking about doing something else.
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I mean, stacks in Kingney Court was incredible.
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Uh, and I if we uh we had 42 covers, and it was like if I had more covers, I'd you know, if I had 84 covers, I would literally double this business, I'd double it.
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You know, the demand was there.
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Uh but I knew that Shaftsbury, the landlords of Kingley Court, would never let me do another one because I had a couple of other operators in there doing burgers, they definitely didn't want more burgers.
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It was what it was, and so the the genesis of the Banconi idea really came from let's do something that sort of mirrors the economics of Saks because they were that they were kind of incredible, um, but it's not burgers, because I can't do burgers, and then I can maybe open something across the way, and that's kind of where the initial ideas for Banconi became, you know, it's where they came from.
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Uh and it was like, let's do something that like burgers is well understood, well, pasta ticks that box.
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It was also kind of interesting when you looked at the evolution of the sort of burger market and even the pizza market.
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There were two or three generations that kind of happened, you know, from so if you take burgers, you know, the original QSR was McDonald's and Burger King, and then you had the next generation, which was probably spearheaded by GBK in the mid-90s as a better burger, slightly more sort of like casual dining than QSR.
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Uh then there was a second generation of that which was sort of spearheaded by the likes of Patium Bun and Honus Burger.
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Um, somehow I managed to acquire Honus Burger on the way as well, by the way, with uh Funford Active.
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Um and you know, then there was like, you know, there was a new wave of sort of like people coming through.
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So it's like there was a worked out there's like three generations, three waves of burgers in about three decades.
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You could say the same for pizza with Pizza Express, um, sorry, Pizza Hut to start with, then the next generation was Pizza Express, then you kind of had the Wave B, which was Strada, um, and then there was the next next new wave generation, which was the likes of Pizza Pilgrims.
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Um it's gone one step ahead again.
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Yeah, which is so we're now looking at the next generation.
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You have people at Alicat's emerging and you know, all these guys.
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Uh so these things sort of revolutionized.
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And actually, when you looked at pasta, it was kind of carluchos for 20 odd years on its own.
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And there was no regeneration.
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It's like, well, I don't, you know, you then look at stats.
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I remember we found a probably very spurious stat online somewhere, which is I think it was 68% of bricks eat pasta twice or more a week.
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And I'm sure most of that is sort of, you know, in a pan at home, you know, boiled dry pasta.
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But it did say something about the ubiquity of um pasta as a product.
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People understand it, people get it, people like it and they eat it.
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And so we set out to do something which was like a better pasta concept, um, and sort of, I guess, capitalised on what felt like a slightly overlooked sector.
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You know, we did a load of analysis on how many burger places there are, how many pizza places are there?
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You know, obviously the answer is they're just a lot.
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Uh and uh we then looked at how many pasta places there are, and I think there was a spaghetti house, I think Padella had one site in Borough which was doing incredibly well.
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Yeah.
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So we kind of looked at that and said, Well, they're doing they're doing pretty well.
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Now I actually tried to meet those guys, talk about doing it together, and they bounced me in about three or four meetings.
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And I remember I send them a grumpy email saying, Well, if you don't do it with me, I'll do it on my own without you.
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And they didn't heed that.
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So uh Frank Any Man exists.
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So sorry.
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I've got a couple of uh observations as I seem to always do.
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Um well the first one is remembering a story you told me about porn.
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Yeah, um, and a tuna sandwich.
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If you would like to share that, I found that I actually shared a bakery, I think it was salmon.
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Is this the one where someone kept on writing in?
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This was the one on tuna, and if I remember it right now, I might have got it completely wrong.
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Their sales were in decline, and you said that that's the one.
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Okay, fine.
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I've actually shared that with somebody, and I'll tell you in a moment.
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What I would say about yeah, Paul was interesting, right?
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So there's there's not a short, short way of saying this, but um the the French the the French had brought Paul to the UK, they'd kind of given up on they had a site on Bedford Street in Covenant Garden, they had a site on Marybone High Street, um uh and both sites were doing all right.
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Their sales were pretty good, but they weren't making any money, they were losing money, in fact.
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And I think that the French had sort of like got to the point where they'd I don't know how many years it was, they'd been trying trying at this for like four or five years.
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And they'd sent, you know, their best bakers, their best general managers, the the sons of the founder had kind of come to, you know, sort of and they'd all kind of given up on it and said, um it's not, you know, this is not working, you know, the UK is not ready for you know French bakeries, it's not us, it's the British.
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Uh, you know, sorry everyone who's French listening to this, but that sort of French attitude of is the same, it was reciprocated the other way with the Brits, right?
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So historically it's like, why it's the British, it's all their problem, you know, they're the difficulty here, not us.
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Uh, and I think when the deal was done on Paul, it was, you know, I think they were actually looking at us with a bit of pity in their eyes, saying, Well, you can you can run the uh the administration, not us.
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And it was kind of interesting.
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So this is it it kind of it's very anachronistic, you know, it was a time and a place, and the market has moved on incredibly since whenever this was 2005, 6 or whatever.
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Uh and um the the the reality was that they were they'd taken a cookie-cutter fit of the French boulanger and stuck it in London.
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And I remember I can't remember the number now, but they had some like 42 different types of bread on the menu, which is you know, the mark the the baked goods market, the bread market has moved on incredibly since then.
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So this sounds like I'm crazy, but the British sort of bread matrix, as I always used to joke about it then, was brown, white, sliced, not sliced.
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And that was it, that was your options.
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Uh so when all of a sudden they were talking about fugas and you know, sourdough baguettes, like people are going, I don't actually know what you're talking about.
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Um I mean, so everyone's gonna remember the sourdough revolution, as I call it, only really happened in lockdown when everyone was getting starter kicks and you know trying to bake it at home.
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That's actually only a few years ago.
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So going back 20 odd years, um, yeah, it was incredible.
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So but what what the French said was, you know, the Brits don't buy bread.
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What they didn't really understand was they were they were not presenting it to the market in a way that the market was ready to digest it.
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And I think even in today's market, if you put 40 odd varieties of bread, I think that would be mind-boggling still for the British market.
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Um but the sort of the gap in the market they'd really missed was actually the British their conclusion was the Brits don't really eat bread.
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And it's like that's not true.
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You know, at that time Pret was you know young but pushing through.
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You know, people were eating sandwiches every day for lunch.
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You know, that was normal, but it was pretty much you know the brown, white, slice, not sliced sort of stuff.
00:16:52.960 --> 00:17:02.320
Um the baguette sandwich didn't really exist, and so I think at that point when we when we inherited Paul, I think it had like three sandwiches on the menu.
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.720
We increased that range to I think it was that 10, 11.
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:12.480
So we actually had a proper sandwich offer rather than like an afterthought in what was basically a bakery business.
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:16.960
We added things like coffee because if you think about it, you know, why would you go to the boulangerie for coffee?
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.119
The French didn't really understand that, they thought we were mad.
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:26.480
Uh and actually, interestingly now, you can buy coffees in pools in Paris, that I've noticed, and I always have a slight rye smile because they were so disdainful of it.
00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:33.359
Um and uh yeah, the tuna sandwich, uh, you know, they was like, why would you do that?
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:34.559
It's disgusting.
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:38.799
Uh the chef, you know, the we had French chefs, uh, we ran the business in the UK.
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:46.880
The French business was independent, we were sort of independent, but there were supply agreements, and we actually had some of their chefs sort of like, or bakers I should say, they're like, Why would you do a tuna sandwich?
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:47.440
It's disgusting.
00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:50.960
It's like, well, tuna sandwich is like the second most popular sandwich in the UK.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.920
If we don't do it, we're missing a trick here.
00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:08.079
And all of a sudden we put the tuna sandwich on the menu, and funny enough, our you know, there's an interesting equation of you know, when you looked at sandwich sales plus bread sales, it was basically the same as a pool in France on just bread sales.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.920
So, yeah, the English do eat bread, they just eat them, eat a lot of it as sandwiches.
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:22.720
And so we created an offer that actually reflected how the Brit, the average Brit, the average Londoner at the time, was buying and eating and consuming bread, which was sandwiches.
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:27.599
Tuna sandwiches, funny enough, true to type, became our second best-selling sandwich afterhand.
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:28.720
Well, there you go.
00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:38.000
That's that's the story I wanted to say, and it's ironic that you I have mentioned uh, in fact, a few people have ripped me about my tuna sandwich uh at Pret because it's a go-to.
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:38.559
Yeah.
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:41.200
Um, and I did I did repeat your story.
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:43.119
I'm not going to name the bakery.
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.640
Uh it's a wonderful bakery in Fitzrogan.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:53.680
I said you must now do a tuna sandwich, and and I repeated your story, yeah, and sure enough it's selling very well.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:54.720
So thank you, David.
00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:59.279
You're you're still adding value to the London bakery scene without even trying.
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:02.079
I I'm not sure I'm going to take much credit for tuna mayo.
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.680
Well, no, but uh, but um but there there is wisdom there.
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:06.079
Yeah.
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.839
Um so so I think probably everybody's probably now heard enough about Paul.
00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:17.200
Let's forward wind into the past a bit because you mentioned I mean look, the one thing I would also say is I I I work very, very hard.
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:24.480
I I have a lot of fingers and a lot of different pies, and I always like creating stuff and doing stuff for people and working with other people and their brands.
00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:29.759
Uh the reality is I couldn't do this without the people around me.
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:30.559
Of course.
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:40.799
You know, there are I have some incredible colleagues who are far more talented in many ways, very different from me, and it's you know, hospitality is all about people.
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:45.119
It's easy to it's easy to, you know, this is uh you've asked to do a podcast of me.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.680
I kind of feel like I should be sat here with I don't know how many people it's ten people around me.
00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:51.920
Yeah, without whom none of this would be possible.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:20:02.079
Yeah, no, I've we'll we'll we'll dive deeper into that, but just rewinding a bit or forward winding a bit, however you want to put it, into uh into the pasta bit.
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:22.559
You said you did this research, and it's I remember listening to very similar research, it might have been the same, and it really struck a chord because how I heard it and understood it was how popular pasta was, but also the fact that pasta in the UK is not considered to be an Italian category of cuisine.
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.000
That's how I heard it.
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:34.559
And it transcended um the the the category, and it was just it's we're having it's not we're having Italian tonight, we're having pasta tonight.
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:40.319
And that that I thought was a remarkable achievement for uh for for the category.
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:46.400
So I I really liked, I really it just I don't know why I found it interesting, but but you seem to as well.
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:48.640
I would sort of agree and disagree with that.
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:50.160
Uh I think it's a complicated thing.
00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:54.079
I don't think people are confused is not the right word, but I think there is confusion.
00:20:54.480 --> 00:21:04.160
So I always think of food, food categories as a matrix of food products down one side and sort of like nationalities and regions and sort of like you know, down the other.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:12.880
So I have plenty of arguments with, I'm having an argument with a with a landlord in Dubai at the moment about putting a banconia into their estate, but they're saying we've got another Italian.
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:19.279
I'm like going, ah, but you know, it's not an Italian, it's not full service, and this other place does, you know, primis secondi, you know, the whole lot.
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:24.160
You know, they do a bit of pasta, but not that much, they do pizza, you know, we are very pasta focused.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.799
Um I think what's happened in London is interesting with pasta, because I don't think we're alone in this.
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:31.920
I think you know clearly pasta originates from Italy.
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.000
Therefore, it is Italian.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:35.119
I get that.
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:45.920
Uh I think I think what Will and I, you know, when we first sort of like were kicking around the ideas of Banconi back in probably 2017, actually.
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:47.680
It's a long time ago now.
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:59.839
Um, we were very conscious of the fact that both of us were sort of like, in fact, Will and I weirdly went to the same school, not at the same time, well, we were at the same time, he was a few years younger than me, but um, but we grew up in the same parts of South London fundamentally.
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:05.440
I think we share less than zero drops of Italian blood between us.
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:18.960
And we were very, very sort of thoughtful about creating a pasta concept, an Italian sort of style pasta concept, when there was no Italian heritage, there's no story about our nonna's favourite recipe or anything like that.
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:21.279
You know, we don't really have nonnas, we have grandmothers.
00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.119
It's an important distinction.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:30.880
And so there's something I think that's that's incredible and I wouldn't say unique anymore.
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:37.279
I think Paris is definitely on the same trajectory as London in terms of international cities.
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:44.079
But we created something with Banconi where it was pasta, but it wasn't necessarily or strictly Italian.
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:51.039
So if you look at any of our menus, our menu changes frequently, you know, every month there's sort of like one or two on, one or two off, that sort of thing.
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:53.440
It evolves, you know, continuously.
00:22:53.680 --> 00:23:01.599
I would say probably at any point in time, probably a third-ish of our dishes are like a caccia pepe, for example, is probably the best example.
00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:09.920
A third of our dishes, maybe a bit less than that, are what I'd call our version of an authentic, legitimate Italian pasta dish.
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:13.119
Now, Caccia Pepe is a northern Italian dish, you know.
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.839
We do our version of it, it's a good version of it.
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:19.920
It's probably not that different from a good one you'd get in, I don't know, Turin or whatever.
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:26.720
Um, but we also started to sort of like experiment quite a lot.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:34.000
So our signature dish, the one that's from day one, has actually been our best seller, and today I think it's still our best seller, actually, is the silk handkerchiefs.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:45.119
And our first chef, uh Louis, was his background was um Le Candeloccotelli, the Giorgio, uh, and also uh at Pierterre.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:53.920
So his his his heritage was um both fine dining French and sort of fine dining Italian.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:57.039
And this dish sort of you know, I think is the sort of the epitome of that.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.079
It's a very beautiful dish.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:03.759
I think the reason it's quite so popular is it's uh got this big config on the top, but it's very Instagrammable.
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:12.160
So it kind of, you know, we you know, I like to say uh we broke the internet, that's a total exaggeration, but I'll keep saying it in case some someone one day actually believes me.
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:17.839
Uh but we were we were allegedly, I don't know who measured this or how it's measured, but again, I'm gonna keep repeating it and not question it too much.
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.000
Apparently, I think it was 2019 or 2020, I can't remember.
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:24.400
One of our first years, we were it was the most Instagram dish in the UK, and I kind of get it.
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.799
Uh, you know, it's a it is a pretty dish.
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.759
It is basically a combination of French and Italian food.
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:33.119
So it's pasta, that's the Italian bit, kind of done.
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:44.319
Uh, it's then topped with a Bur Blanc, uh, config egg, chalots uh in the Bur Blanc, and also we have some walnuts, which are not strictly French, but a very French ingredient.
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:50.720
But Bur Blanc, Config, these this is classic French, you know, sous vide sort of light is a classic French technique.
00:24:51.200 --> 00:25:02.319
And this dish is basically we sort of always joked that um this dish was kind of like if the if the French had invented pasta and did a vegetarian pasta, vegetarian carbonara even, this is kind of it.
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:08.480
And this dish, you know, doesn't it didn't exist in Italy.
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:17.440
It has been, it's one of the actually one of things I'm most proud of in a very sort of like weird and abstract way, but it's one of the you know it has been copied by quite a few Italian restaurants now.
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:23.759
And I love the fact that we've got these two kids from South London who are getting our knees dirty on the streets of Crystal Palace and Stretham.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:35.599
Uh that have somehow, you know, between them and with help from, you know, again, very talented others, uh, in this case Louis, we've managed to um we've managed to export pasta to Italy.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:40.000
Well, people struggle, don't they, to find a point of difference, that signature.
00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:57.119
I I I I'm not gonna name but there's been pancakes and everyone goes to a particular place when they were evolving and this, that, the other, and to create that dish that nobody else has done and it's brilliant, and people want it, and people photograph it, is a is a good is a great achievement.
00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:57.599
Well done.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:08.960
And I'm just I'm just gonna quickly say sorry about the grandmas because you're making me chuckle in my head because I remember and you've um I'm grateful you've joined us to a few of the R200s that we sponsored now.
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:26.400
But we went to Bologna once, and we there was a fresh pasta making um restaurant that we went to where they they make it in front of you, and it's where they do the soup with the I can't remember what the pasta's called, but you have you've got to kind of knot it with the filling inside of it.
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:33.359
And we had one, there was one grandma um doing it, and there was a younger lady doing it.
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:48.400
And if I tell you, the younger lady was kind of piecing it together piece by piece at a certain pace, but the grandma it was like it was like she was an absolute machine doing it blindfolded, just churning these pastas out.
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:50.559
It was just it was a glorious thing to watch.
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:52.880
I've got a photo of it somewhere and I will share it with you.
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:56.559
You can see us making pasta in the window here in Soho right now, indeed, yeah.
00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:00.000
Cutting out the um was a tomato reveal, wasn't it?
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:01.519
Yeah, it looks delicious.
00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:06.319
So I think it's actually uh caramele beef with with tomato, it's actually very good.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:07.039
Well, there we go.
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.839
For anyone out there listening, if you like caramele beef, you know this is the place to come.
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:13.119
Yeah, and if you don't kick me out, I'll probably uh I'll probably enjoy it.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:15.519
No, I've got a 1230 in East London.
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:19.680
Um so your first was here, if I'm not mistaken.
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:21.839
No, the first was Covent Garden, we're in the 4th Street.
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:22.880
Got you.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:28.079
Uh which is an interesting location.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:36.000
It's kind of honestly it's one of it's it's probably our on a sort of like bums per cover sort of ratio, it's probably our busiest restaurant.
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:38.799
It's not it's not as busy as some of the others because it's not quite as big.
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:42.079
Uh, but it's it's been an incredible success for us.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:49.279
Um yeah, I mean that was uh an interesting, you know, you you sort of like wandering around town, you'll get a fed because you do this all the time.
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:54.079
I was wandering around town with Will, and we had a deck of paper saying, you know, we've got a great idea for Pasta.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:59.680
And uh, you know, it was basically trying to get landlords to sort of back us.
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:12.160
And you know, we we ideally wanted to open on something like Beak Street or somewhere, and I remember having that conversation with Julio Shawstreet, uh, and it was like, yeah, we're not sure about the Beak Street site, uh, because we don't really know if you're gonna be successful, is what she didn't say.
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:18.400
Uh, but we've got this one we can't really shift, also what she didn't say, over on William the Fourth Street, which is sort of common garden.
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:20.160
Uh, how about that?
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:20.880
And you know what?
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:30.079
When you start off, biggest can't be choosers, and you know, it was a case of either we do this and give it a go, or we spend another I think it took us about a year or so to find our first property.
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:43.039
You know, it's not easy when you you know I had a bit of a background with the Paul stuff and you know the Ladure, and you know, Will had his own restaurant business over in Crystal Palace, but it was still an untested sort of thing.
00:28:43.279 --> 00:29:02.160
And I, you know, I totally understand you know the hesitancy to give us a super front sight when you've got a queue of other people who have got really very strong credentials, not just uh you know, seven pages of whatever it was we had saying, you know, Michelin quality food, casual dying prices before we'd actually cooked a dish.
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:04.559
Uh so I love that, I love the Michelin claim.
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:05.839
Honestly, I was so nervous about that.
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:13.519
But you kind of got to go out there and sort of, you know, you gotta you gotta fake it until you make it, as I saw someone say on a movie quite recently, I quite like that.
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:21.759
But it's true, we faked it before we made it, and um yeah, and but Julia took a bet on us on a site, but honestly, I'm not sure who else you'd have put in there.
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:23.759
Um it's not the easiest site for sure.
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:28.240
And actually, what every forgets was that was when the page eight hotel, which is across the road, was being redeveloped.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:36.079
So there's scaffolding and like you know, sheets of plastic flapping in the wind, and on a rainy day like today, that street was pretty bleak.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:41.680
Yeah, but but like you say, you've you've made it in that location, which is a good location, but not a triple A.
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:46.400
So the way the way I look at that one is is you know, it's almost best defined by what it's not than what it is.
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:57.839
It's a very good physical geographic location because it's very close to proper Covent Garden, Trafalgar Square, Charing Cross, Theatre Land.
00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:58.799
But it is none of the above.
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:05.359
It's not it's not really when you say Covent Garden, you think of the you know the market and stuff, it's about a five or ten minute walk away from there.
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:07.839
So it's not really true.
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:20.079
We call it Coven Garden because honestly, it's a WC2 postcode, and that's kind of enough from uh, you know, but it's it's it's very close to the tube, it's very close, you know, it's very close to Charing Cross, it's very close to the the action, it's just not the action.
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:27.680
It's the it's the it's the secondary tertiary street in a prime, super prime sort of macro location.
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:28.240
Yeah.
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:29.440
And then you went on.
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:30.720
Soho was number two.
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:31.599
To do Soho.
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:32.640
So it's number two.
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:35.680
So we did that, it was supposed to be Westfield actually.
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.640
Uh and we were, I never got so close to doing a deal and not doing it, I think.
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:41.440
It's probably fair to say.
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:59.039
We were literally going to go in and sign, and then I think it was some Anna who was doing RPR, uh, said, Oh, I've just spoken to a former colleague of mine who said that Westfield are putting in pastel into the good bit, and we were going into the bit that was still a little bit unproven, because as I said, that's kind of where we were in terms of the sort of sights we were getting.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:00.799
Um, and I can't be true.
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:04.640
I'd I'd spoken to the people at Westfield and they they promised us, you know, exclusivity.
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:09.279
And I know she picked up the phone, I'm not going to name names, but you know who you are, Rachel.
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:12.000
Um and said, what's going on?
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:13.759
And it was like there's an awkward silence.
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:22.160
Uh and I said, Surely you're talking about Stratford, not White City, and there's a much longer, even more awkward silence because then actually we tried to put test out, and I said, Okay, we're out.
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:25.039
It wasn't quite that quick, but fundamentally that's what happened.
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:28.160
Of course, as I say, lots of people around me, we kicked it around, and it was hard.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:33.119
We'd spent a lot of money on designs and all sorts of you know, leases and all sorts.
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:35.119
We were, you know, we didn't have a lot of money at that point in time.
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:41.680
We hadn't, you know, we've got one restaurant that was kind of chugging along and doing really well, but it was early days for us, and we didn't have money to around.
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:45.519
So we lost that, and Soho became the new Westfield.
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.119
Uh and honestly, it it was a it's worked for us, you know.
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:54.000
It took our brand in a bit more of a central London foodie direction.
00:31:54.160 --> 00:32:01.359
I think our food quality, again, credit, we've got some incredible chefs that work with the business, uh, like really talented people.
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:08.880
And I think our food our food quality ended up being higher than we actually originally anticipated.
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:18.480
And all of a sudden we're foodie, we won the Michelin Bib Gourmand in I think the first year we could, which was I don't know, probably March 19, maybe 20.
00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:18.880
I don't know.
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:24.079
We've had it, we've won it seven out of seven years, so whenever that works out, you know, counting backwards, that was the first year we got it.
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:31.599
Um and then all of a sudden, you know, this this sort of promise or you know, Michelin quality food, casual dining prices.
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:33.519
It's like, oh my god, we actually did it.
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.000
I think we were more surprised than anyone.
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:37.920
Um, but our food was incredible.
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:39.200
I'd love to take some credit for that.
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:40.720
I can take zero credit for that.
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:54.720
Uh, you know, we have these very talented guys who work and women who work every day in our kitchens, who create dishes, who the the the key to these businesses, creativity is really important.
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.400
You know, creating the silk handkerchiefs, incredible.
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:01.039
It's actually all about consistency of delivery.
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:15.119
If you make an amazing dish but it turns up on someone's you know table and it's a bit shit because something's overcooked, something's oversalted, you know, it doesn't matter how great the idea was, the execution is poor.
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:15.839
Absolutely.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:17.119
No one's gonna come back.
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:21.279
So the guys in our kitchens and on you know front of the house, they work incredibly hard.
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:25.200
They're very proud about what they do here, and I'm very proud of the fact that they are proud.
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:29.680
You know, the culture in these businesses are drivering.
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:37.119
Fundamentally, I think hospitality is the pro you never lose sight of the fact that if you're in your restaurant business, your core product is the food.
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:38.559
That's what people are actually paying for.
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:40.799
They say, oh, that dish is£14.50.
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:41.759
That's what you're paying for.
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:43.279
That's how the economics of it work.
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:46.880
But hospitality is actually all about, it is experiential.
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:48.960
Everyone talks about experiential as a new economy.
00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:53.759
It's been happening for centuries and centuries and centuries, millennia actually.
00:33:54.240 --> 00:34:01.119
It's all about, you know, Aristotle uh relatively famously once said, man is a social animal.
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:14.719
I read philosophy at university, so honestly, I can whack lyrical about this shit, but um, you know, if if Aristotle was saying it in whatever it was, the you know, whatever century BC, I can't remember, but you know, this has been going on for a little while.
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:20.159
I um I I go back further and say it was all about breaking bread in the Bible.
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:38.559
So you know, I mean it it's it's before that, but but we'll come back to hospitality as a as a as a concept towards the end, and I think we've got a little bit more to go because you have lent your hand not just to Banconi but but many other uh businesses.
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:40.960
But but you're up to how many now of Banconi?
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:44.159
We just opened number six in Russell Square.
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:45.199
Yep, yeah.
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:58.719
Uh three weeks ago, we have what we're referring to as Oxford Street, that is actually sort of Henrietta Place, uh, which is the sort of the northeast corner of what was Debenham's, just north of Oxford Street.
00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:05.039
Uh that'll open in November, and we've got more in the pipe, and hopefully including Paris next year.
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:06.800
So I think we're at six now.
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:11.519
I think if we fast forward 12 months, we'll probably be at nine, I think.
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:13.679
Very good, very exciting.
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:14.719
So, yeah.
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:32.719
So the exciting thing is so we decided, you know, my my background, I sort of talked about Paul, I talked about Lagerie, I talked about, you know, I didn't talk about, you know, I worked on a uh, you know, I was on the board and sort of led the turnaround of an eyewear business called Alain Meekly, not very well known in the UK, but quite it was maybe not anymore, but it was quite a big thing in Paris back in the day.
00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:34.800
But it was in 55 markets globally.
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.239
It was a proper international business, 60, 70 million turnover.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:39.440
That's kind of my background.
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:45.119
I sort of like was, you know, doing franchise agreements in I don't know, Hong Kong and all sorts of crazy and weird and wonderful stuff.
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:46.960
So my background's very international.
00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:50.079
I'm really, really excited to be taking Bangkone International.
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:54.559
Yeah, we've got conversations in Dubai, who knows what will happen there, but fingers crossed.
00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:59.440
It feels like we're putting a flag in the ground in Paris in 2027, which I think is exciting.
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:04.400
I think Paris is ready for what we're doing.
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:16.239
I think our foods, you know, the sort of like the we you know it's it's a bit of a wanky term, but what we really do here, if you want to sort of describe it in two or three words, is we do creative pasta.
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:19.280
It's not necessarily Italian pasta, it's creative.
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:27.840
And Ben, our um exec chef, who you know comes from a fine dining background, is incredible.
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:42.159
He just keeps coming up with these dishes that some of which are so we've got a Nocchi dish at the moment with Gordon Zolo, you know, it it's kind of it's kind of quite Italian, but he's I can see his fingerprints all over it, and it's actually, I had it last night for dinner.
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:44.000
It's incredible, it's really delicious.
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:50.320
But he's also coming up with you know the beef and caramella, which I was talking about earlier, which is again, it's it's is it Italian?
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:52.559
Not really, kind of, could be.
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:57.119
We've got the hoggett dish, which is you know, actually, it's got Thai basil in it, soy sauce.
00:36:57.440 --> 00:36:58.320
It's kind of Asian.
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:01.280
We do quite a lot of Asian sort of style pasta.
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:16.639
And actually, there's an interesting story about Delugo and how an Italian chap who opened a noodle store on the corner of Gerard Street, uh, all of a sudden had a lot of Chinese people, this was like the Windrush generations, but the sort of Chinese version of this, which probably happened in the 50s rather than the 60s.
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:21.519
You know, the Chinese immigrants in London who were starting to open restaurants because that was kind of what they did.
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:23.440
They're like, we need a source of noodles.
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:34.719
And funnily enough, they all started buying thinner pasta from this Italian chap on Gerard Street, and they started opening their restaurants up around him, and that's why we have Chinatown.
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.079
Because of an Italian man who made pasta on Gerard Street.
00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:40.800
I find that stuff fascinating and incredible.
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:47.840
Um, but you know, it sort of shows this sort of like this lineage of sort of multiculturalism in in London.
00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:51.280
I I would very much say I'm part of that.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.039
I'm you know, I was born and bred in London.
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.679
I'm half Iranian, half English, or half Persian, I should say.
00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:57.840
That's the that's the cooler way of saying it.
00:37:58.079 --> 00:37:59.280
Uh a bit like the cat.
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:00.639
Uh so yeah.
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:02.079
Yeah, just in the second one.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:03.760
And you know, I've grown up with this.
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:05.760
I grew up sort of like in South London, you know.
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:17.920
I I was just talking to my wife, I went to see a um Benjamin Zefaniah exhibition last night, it was all about, you know, sort of like uh from Birmingham, but urban poetry, sort of like he's a raster, it's kind of cool, I love it.
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:21.360
I grew up sort of like wandering, you know, grew up and went to school sort of near Brixton.
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:30.159
I remember this the I was just saying to her, you know, the the the the soundtrack of my early youth in the sort of like mid to late 70s was reggae.
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:35.679
You know, I used to walk past these markets and you just hear reggae sort of like chattering around in the background.
00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:37.199
I love it, I find it soothing.
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:42.000
Uh and actually that's what is that's what's interesting about London to me.
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:43.920
I think Paris is on the same trajectory.
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:45.280
I started talking about this earlier.
00:38:45.519 --> 00:39:07.119
I think there's something about the culture clashes in cities like this, where it's acceptable for two South London kids to create pasta, which is traditionally Italian, throw in a bit of Thai, a bit of it doesn't really matter, Middle Eastern, a bit of this, that just throw it in, just put it into the mixing pot.
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:17.440
And as long as the dish, as long as the dish is actually good, and even better if it's interesting, and even better if it's pushing a few boundaries and still good, London accepts it.
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:20.000
In fact, London cherishes it.
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:39.920
You look at you know, businesses like Kiln, you know, it's it's it's this sort of you know mix of sort of like authentic authentic I find the word authentic is slightly dangerous, but it's a mix of authentic Thai techniques that thrown in with local produce and a bit of sort of like you know local sort of skills as well.
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:45.840
And you have this sort of concept which is is both I I talk about not so much authenticity because is it authentic Thai?
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:47.360
Well I'm not sure who's Thai in that business.
00:39:47.440 --> 00:40:04.800
I don't know, there may be, I'm not saying there are or there aren't, but I suspect it's a bunch of people from all over the world who have a passion for Thai food and who have a passion for good produce because they come from good chefing backgrounds, and that's kind of what's ingrained in them, and they're quite right to you know prefer good over bad produce.
00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:06.800
I mean that's statement of the obvious, right?
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:21.360
Uh and they've created this concept which everybody loves, you know, and I think I think that's what I love about London, it's very accepting of creativity and creative food, which is not strictly authentic, but it is honest.
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:33.119
I talk a lot about the word honest and truthful, which is it's honest to use someone else's techniques, not claim them as your own, but then use local produce because you know what you know.
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:37.920
So, for example, I remember having a mackerel colouring kill once, which was a green mackerel green curry, which was incredible.
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:43.599
And I thought like the same thing, I don't think mackerel's indigenous to Thailand.
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:47.760
And I looked it up actually, because I'm I'm a bit like that, I'm a Wikipedia junkie.
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:55.679
Uh and it's not, but they do do curries with oily fish, which are indigenous to the Thai regions.
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:03.760
Uh and you know what, it would be a little bit disingenuous in my view to start shipping that particular fish over to the UK, frozen, blah blah blah.
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:05.440
It's use our local fish.
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:06.639
Absolutely.
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:11.440
I mean you're you're it's the playbook of Santiago Lustra of Coal and all of it.
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:20.639
I mean, it's it's it's a well-established format now to engage with our produce, which is fantastic, and give it a twist.
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:23.440
And you know, London is unique in that sense, I think.
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:33.360
I'm gonna say unique, it's a bit of a strong word, but you know, we certainly sit apart in the rest of Europe in the spectrum of cuisines that we have and the way in which you can mash it up for sure.
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:36.719
So tell us about other other bits and bobs.
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:45.199
I'm gonna say bits and bobs, that's a bit rude, but you know, you have other interests, you have other operating businesses that you're involved in, which are very exciting.
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:54.880
Yeah, so um we had a pub and hotel business outside of London called Grosvenor Pubs and Inns, which I did with my business partner Jason Myers.
00:41:55.039 --> 00:42:01.199
Um that kind of after I think it was eight or nine years, sort of came to a natural end uh back in February.
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:02.159
No.
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:05.519
Uh it was a great business.
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:11.519
It was a it was a proper journey through Covid and you know it was kind of crazy, and we went through a lot.
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:19.840
Uh, and I think you know, sort of fast forwarding to today, it's like we we we there's a there's definitely a love of pub industry, there's a very great love of hotel industry.
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.920
I want to do more basically, we both want to do more.
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:39.920
Uh and I think we recognise that you know through a combination of COVID, um Brexit, you know, the since we started it, you know, there's a lot of a lot of proper hand grenades got thrown into the British sort of hospitality sector.
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.480
There's everything that everyone's talking about, that is the problem.
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:44.400
If you haven't signed up, please sign up.
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:46.000
Uh a big supporter of that.
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:47.679
I think you know we're overtaxed, isn't it?
00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:49.760
We're materially overtaxed in the industry.
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:53.920
Uh we pay, what is it, as a sector, someone was someone showed me something.
00:42:54.079 --> 00:43:06.320
We pay, we are nine percent of the UK economy, we pay 34% of uh the POE bill and business rates bill.
00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:11.679
We're over-indexing on the like other taxes.
00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:16.400
I think it's only fair we under-index on something else that actually rebalances that.
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:19.760
And funny enough, when we're we're being overtaxed, you know, what is it?
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:23.840
I think Tom Kerrige was talking about one in three, well, what was it, three businesses a day?
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:25.280
Let's do the maths on that.
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:27.599
That's 20 something a week, 21 a week.
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:29.119
Let's call it 20.
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:32.320
That's a thousand businesses a year are closing in this sector.
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:37.280
And each one of those businesses is probably circa 20 jobs, maybe more.
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:43.599
It's 20,000 people out of work, and then we're not even talking about the industries that rely on our industry.
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:48.320
Like, you know, Ted, you're an agent, you know, hospitality agent and financier.
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:56.960
Without hospitality, your business goes, but you know, the obvious stuff is the agriculture, the fisheries, the bakeries, the people who supply us, they're all gonna go under pressure.
00:43:57.039 --> 00:43:58.559
What about the accountants that are focused on our set?
00:43:59.039 --> 00:43:59.760
There's there's so many.
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:02.639
So many jobs that are relied to this.
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:06.559
And before we even start talking about the importance to society, you know, man is a social animal.
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:08.480
Aristotle was quite, you know.
00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:10.000
Hospitality does a job.
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:17.199
In lockdown, mental health started skyrocketing because people suffered from isolation.
00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:20.400
The antithesis of isolation is hospitality.
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:23.599
It's where you go to talk to it.
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:24.639
It can be anything.
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:27.119
People often get sort of like confused about hotels and restaurants.
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:31.519
It's not, it's everything from a little cafe to a little pub, it's everything.
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:33.679
It's where people go and meet.
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:35.679
It's where you celebrate things.
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:44.320
Hospitality, you know, I don't do very many good quotes, I did one by accident many years ago, which is hospitality for me is the canvas on which you paint your memories.
00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:48.639
You've pretty much answered my last question, but we're gonna come back to that.
00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:50.079
We're gonna come back to that.
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:53.119
But it's it's where you have to think of another one, but that was a good one.
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.920
It's where I'm not sure I can think of two in one day.
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:06.159
But it's where it's it is it is where you celebrate birthdays, anniversaries, weddings, baptisms, funerals.
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:11.280
It's hard to think, it's where you meet friends that you haven't seen for a little while.
00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:18.480
You know, it's where you do everything that's important to you as a human being where it involves other people.
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:20.320
That's what hospitality is.
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:22.719
Yeah, you can have a barbecue at home, you can have people around for you and sure.
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.920
I'm not that that is it's not a substitute for that, it's an addition to that.
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:32.719
And it's a neutral place, and it's about taking the pain out of actually, you know, some people honestly don't like cooking.
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:37.519
You know, and it's a it's a stress having to cook for six people at your home.
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:39.280
We solved that.
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:44.719
Oh, it's um these are all wonderful pearls and lots of passion.
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:51.679
Um let's quickly just touch upon um you're opening a pub shortly.
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:52.000
Yeah.
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:53.360
We're here on the great drive.
00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:54.960
The hero's return.
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:56.400
A triumphant, what's it?
00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:58.880
Triumphant Riverside Terrace Pub and Dining Room.
00:45:59.199 --> 00:45:59.599
Excellent.
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.440
In Bastia Power Station.
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:01.760
Yeah.
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:04.880
Uh probably late October, early November, that'll open its doors.
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:06.000
Very exciting.
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:07.679
Uh very excited about it.
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:11.599
So uh Bastia Power Station.
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:17.519
Again, we're back to my sort of I grew up near my mum used to work on Queenstown Road even.
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:22.320
Uh Basti Power Station for me is like this monolith on the south bank of the river.
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:25.760
And you drive up and down the embankment and you kind of just see this looming.
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:27.840
It's a crazy fucking building.
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:32.000
I it it shouldn't exist, and it certainly shouldn't exist where it is.
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:34.800
Uh and I love that it does.
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:40.320
I think this is everything we should be championing and celebrating, you know.
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:46.880
So I remember being a kid, you know, being driven up and down the embankment in my mum and dad's car and saying, What is that?
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:48.880
And they're like going, That's Bassy Power Station.
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:50.159
I go, What's Bassy Power Station?
00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:51.119
I go, Well, it's nothing, really.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:52.239
So, what do you mean it's nothing?
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:53.360
Well, you know, what do they do there?
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:54.000
They don't do anything.
00:46:55.039 --> 00:46:59.679
And I'm looking at like these four, you know, huge chimneys, and it's like they said it used to be a power station.
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:02.960
I'm like, you know, I don't really know what a power station is because I'm six years old.
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:14.559
Uh, but it's always been this sort of like for anyone who's sort of born and grown up in London, Bassy Power Station's been like this impressive enigma of I don't really know what it is, I don't really know what it does.
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:16.239
Everyone says it doesn't really do anything.
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:21.199
And then you live through sort of like you know decades of people talking about putting Chelsea FC in there and all this in this, what is it?
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:23.599
It's like it's like trying to find a solution for this.
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:25.519
But it is this incredible building.
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:35.440
Uh, I'm a massive music fan, and of course, the cover of animals, which I have on my wall at home somewhere, with Flying Pig and Bassy Power Station, that that again is an iconic image for me.
00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:41.119
Probably because Bassy Power Station is an iconic architectural feature on the south bank of the river.
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:55.199
Um and so when the opportunity came for us to do something, uh you know, we've we'd sort of just you know predated, but we knew that we knew that we sort of like we're winding down the um the country pubs and and inns and hotels.
00:47:55.679 --> 00:47:59.280
I was like, Basti Power Station doesn't really have a pub.
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:01.760
It's missing a pub, a really good pub.
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:14.639
Uh there's now, I think I can't think 6,000 people that live there, 8,000 people that work there, I think it has something like 13, 14, 15 million visitors a year, rising 5, 10, 15 percent.
00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:19.119
You know, put that in context, 15 million compared to I think Westfield's 23 million.
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:20.400
I know that's an impressive number.
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:21.199
I didn't realise it was that.
00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:22.719
So it's big, and it's interesting.
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:23.920
So I've been sort of visiting it.
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:27.360
Well, these these conversations sort of you know take months and years, even.
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:35.039
And even in the time I've been sort of like literally having meetings there and visiting it and just spending a bit of time, it's got visibly so much busier.
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:39.119
You know, Apple's European HQ is in the power station itself.
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:42.639
I don't know how many people that is, but I don't even know what people do at Apple, to be honest.
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:44.960
I mean, there can't be that much, do there's thousands of them.
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:46.480
Uh I'm sure they're all very busy.
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:47.920
Sorry, people who work at Apple.
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:54.159
But um, yeah, I just you know, sort of my mind boggles with sort of like businesses of that scale and you know what they're all doing, and I have no idea.
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:58.719
And then people start talking about AI and you know, okay, sounds great.
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:01.440
Well, I think do they like a pint and some food?
00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:02.559
Well, who doesn't?
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:05.599
Well, you don't have to have a point, you can you know whatever.
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:11.440
Yeah, uh so the hero's return is you know we've created uh a brand.
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:14.320
So the hero's return is actually a lesser-known Pink Floyd track.
00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:19.199
So there's a nod to there's a nod towards Pink Floyd, it's on an album called The Final Cut.
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:25.039
I actually think the Hero's Return is a much better name for a pub than it is for a song.
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:30.960
Uh and so we have shamelessly stolen it, uh and that is what it is.
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:35.920
It's you know, we try to see something that's you know, we we talk about triumphant riverside terrace.
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.480
So it's overlooking the river, Batic Power Station.
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:44.800
It's a big, it's a big site, it's two floors, it's probably about what it is exactly, 9,000 feet per square feet.
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:47.199
So it's a big, it's a big lump of real estate.
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:53.440
And we're doing on the ground floor, which is the pub itself, the hero's return, which has got the river views and great light.
00:49:54.400 --> 00:50:00.960
We're basically working with Jonathan Woolway, who um was 16 years, I think, exec at St.
00:50:01.039 --> 00:50:01.519
John's.
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:04.159
He's now doing his own thing at the shed in Swansea.
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:06.400
Jonathan's a very, very talented chef.
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:11.760
He does probably the in my humble opinion, some of the best British food I've ever had.
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:14.559
It's food that's very accessible.
00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:16.159
Uh everyone thinks of St.
00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:17.440
John's nose to tail.
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:27.920
There is going to be a bit of nose and a bit of tail and a bit of trotter in between, but fundamentally it'll be mostly more accessible dishes, so pies and steaks and what have you.
00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:35.280
Um and he does this food, you know, that is he's very, very talented, he's very unassuming, his food's very unassuming.
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:38.159
You look to him and you go, that looks great, it looks really delicious.
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:41.519
It's deceptively deceptively not as simple as it looks.
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:49.039
So the sort of way I describe it is it's incredible British food, and I'm talking about great British food these days because I think we need to celebrate our country more.
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:50.719
We have great British food.
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:54.239
And I think he does it in a way that you sort of like, oh, I could do that at home.
00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:55.679
You give it a go.
00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:00.559
And you're gonna look at this sort of like wet slop of food on your plate and like go, yeah, it's not as good as this.
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:03.360
And slow cooked for 20 hours previously.
00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:11.119
Honestly, the amount of the attention to detail and the quality of what he churns out is just it's incredible.
00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:12.320
And there's a reason why St.
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:15.599
John's is which I don't know how old it is now, 25 years or something now?
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:16.239
Gotta be.
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:17.280
There's a reason why St.
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:26.320
John's continues to be, you know, it's like it's like um Chateaubriand in Paris, you know, it's one of those restaurants which is quite minimalist.
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:33.280
Um, and I know the Henderson's have a very distinct aesthetic and slightly utilitarian approach to which I really like.
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:39.039
Um but it's existed as a sort of what I it's what I call a chef's restaurant.
00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:47.920
It's where you'll go and you'll see, you know, I don't know who'll be, but it's like I wouldn't be surprised to see Jackson Boxer in the corner there having lunch with his wife or friend or whatever.
00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:50.559
And it's got that vibe of it's where the chefs go to eat.
00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:52.960
And Jonathan is all about that.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:02.800
Um and we are doing great British food, we're doing his menu, and we will be serving some really, really high quality beer and wine.
00:52:03.039 --> 00:52:05.119
You know, I think it's I actually think it's quite hard in London.
00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:09.599
You know, this feels like a bit of an open goal to me, a bit like there was no pasta in 2018.
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:13.280
It's actually quite hard to go for a good pint of beer somewhere.
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:19.760
Well, I think this whole wave of you know the heart, the chastenarms, that you know, it's it's it's very much.
00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:32.400
We're not we're not gonna be unique, but my my point is I think as a general rule of thumb, you can probably go to your local bottle shop, get, I don't know, six bottles of beer and have better beer at home than if you go to your local pub.
00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:35.920
Yeah, so it's got to be much more than that, which you're obviously going to be on.
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:44.239
Yeah, so we we're sort of we're sort of signing up, so you know, I I kind of talk about it signing up a bit like you know with Chelsea and we're signing up the next you know guy from Real Madrid or wherever it is.
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:45.679
Yeah, that's what I feel about beer.
00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:52.880
It's like we need to be signing up some really incredible brands that give people a reason to go and have a pint, not just uh I'm having a quick pint.
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:54.880
Like, I want to go there because I actually want that beer.
00:52:55.039 --> 00:52:56.800
It's one of the few places you can get it on tap.
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:02.639
Of course, we won't be unique, but my point is I think I think the bar needs to be raised.
00:53:02.719 --> 00:53:07.039
I think there's actually a real gap in will have a very high bar.
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:13.039
Um I think there's a there's a really, you know, it's just not that difficult.
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:19.599
I'm sure people will catch up, but we will be one of the first places, and certainly the only place in Basssea where you'll get a really high quality pineapple beer.
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:21.440
We're gonna be selling stuff like pineapple pints.
00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:25.679
So Jonathan's food lends itself to pies and pints and squatch eggs and sausage rolls.
00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:31.840
And you know, honestly, his sausage roll, I I haven't tried it yet, I don't think it's even been made yet.
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:37.679
But his sausage roll I can 100% guarantee will be, if not the best, one of the very best sausage rolls you ever eat.
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:39.840
Well, it's it keep it simple, stupid, isn't it?
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:45.840
It's always, you know, it's the best sellers are uh the simple, the ones that people know and connect with.
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:58.800
But but I'm I'm very conscious of time, and it is ridiculous amounts of things that you've not told me, or rather I know, but you've not shared in terms of all your other things and pies, but it might take forever.
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:03.039
Um, and I'm just ever so grateful as we approach the hour mark.
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:11.119
So central London pubs, hotels, really, really high quality food, really high quality bars.
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:14.800
You know, I think I think there are a few people out there doing it really, really well.
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:26.400
Uh, I think there's a lot of mediocrity, which is mostly the big brewers, and you know when I see the Green Kings and the Fullers, and they're all okay.
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:28.159
They're not amazing.
00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:29.840
I want to do amazing.
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:30.320
Yeah.
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:33.440
Well, watch this space and get down there.
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:38.480
I I'm gonna ask you anyway, even though you've answered it in a million different ways.
00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:47.760
Um, so you might say I've already answered that, Ted, but I I like to finish by asking David Ramsey, what does hospitality mean to you?
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:49.039
I've already answered that, Ted.
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:50.480
Yeah, um, okay.
00:54:51.199 --> 00:55:14.000
Look, I think I think you know, my my sort of like I remember I was driving in the cotswell, I was looking at a pub or a hotel to buy, and I got lost, and I was doing the interview in the car, and I they asked me what does hospitality mean to you, and I I'd actually just missed my turn and I was looking at my sat nav and I was distracted, and I don't know quite where it came from, but I think this is the right answer, which is yeah, I came up with uh, you know, I can I can be I like my words, shall we say.
00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:17.599
Um I said hospitality is the canvas on which you paint your memories.
00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:18.320
Yeah, I love that.
00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:18.719
I love that.
00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:20.239
But that was a quote, was it not?
00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:20.880
From me?
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:21.519
No, that was me.
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:23.840
Oh, I thought you said it was uh some famous philosopher.
00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:24.719
No, that was me.
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:26.880
Well you are the famous philosopher.
00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:27.679
Yeah, you know.
00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:28.239
Come on.
00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:30.639
My sadly, my philosophy uh making history.
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:35.440
My philosophy supervisor uh died a few years ago, so she she doesn't get the benefit of hearing me.
00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:40.639
She always used to say, not my words, not hers, you say, David, you talk a lot of shit, but you're quite entertaining.
00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:43.920
Well, you could have quoted somebody and I would have easily believed it.
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:46.880
But uh so this was this was this was honestly I love that.
00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:47.280
I love that.
00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:49.599
I do talk a lot of shit, and I say a lot of rubber.
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:50.639
Agreed, agreed.
00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:51.360
Thanks, Ted.
00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:56.159
But um, you know, this was one that kind of popped.
00:55:56.320 --> 00:55:57.119
I don't know where it came from.
00:55:57.280 --> 00:56:01.039
No, so it's a it's a it's it's certainly in my mind from the stars.
00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:06.400
It's the sort of thing that I spend hours, you know, in the small hours of the night, the dark of the night, thinking I need to think of a good quote.
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:06.639
Yeah.
00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:07.360
To say it at some point.
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:08.960
You've got it.
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:10.719
And this one came literally from Keep it.
00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:12.079
Keep it in your lock.
00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:14.000
But as I said, I think it's true.
00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:18.400
Think of many, many, everyone, everyone shares this.
00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:25.360
Most of your important memories with the people you love and the people you enjoy spending time with, most of them happily hospitality venues.
00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:33.280
No, these are pearls of wisdom, and as the music rises, uh Vanconias warming up, it's midday, lunchtime.
00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:36.320
People, you may hear the seller exactly what you're talking about.
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:40.159
People walking through the door about to have those experiences.
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:41.599
Yeah, bring it on.
00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:43.039
This is what we love.
00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:47.119
Food is food is the product, what we really sell is human experience.
00:56:47.360 --> 00:56:47.840
Indeed.
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.679
David, you've been a star.
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:50.719
I've thank you, Ted.
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:52.159
Thank you, it's been fun.
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:54.559
No, it's been brilliant, and thanks again.