ABOUT THIS EPISODE
What happens when you mix marketing smarts with L&D practice? In this episode, Roy talks with Bianca Baumann and Mike Taylor, co-authors of Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro. Together, they explore how marketing mindsets and methods can help learning professionals better understand their audience, personalise training, and move beyond one-size-fits-none learning.
💡 Spoiler alert: Thinking like a marketer doesn't mean just "jazzing up" your courses.
About Bianca & Mike
Bianca Baumann is a learning strategist based in Toronto with roots in business education and a passion for designing campaigns that drive behaviour change. Mike Taylor is a learning designer with a background in digital marketing, known for his Friday Finds newsletter full of L&D inspiration. Together, they believe L&D can learn a lot from marketing…if we’re willing to listen.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
- Why it’s a problem if your course needs to be “jazzed up”
- What L&D can learn from email marketing and digital body language
- How personas and empathy maps help you really understand your learners
- Why “go to Gemba” is still solid advice for L&D teams
- What to try first if you want to design learning as a campaign
- Why “Compliance 101” might not be the best title for your course
- How Mike and Bianca accidentally ended up writing a book together
Resources & inspiration
📘 Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro – by Bianca & Mike
📚 Alchemy by Rory Sutherland
📚 *Books & blogs by Seth Godin*
💌 Friday Finds by Mike Taylor
Quick tips to apply right away
- Start your next learning journey with audience interviews, not assumptions
- Use headline tools (or AI) to craft more engaging course titles
- Test small campaigns using tools you already have (like email)
- Think beyond your LMS—learning can happen anywhere
- Call it a pilot if you want to try something new without pushback
Episode highlights
[00:01:00] – Why learning needs a marketing mindset
[00:10:00] – Why digital body language matters for L&D too
[00:13:00] – The mistake of buying tools before building strategy
[00:16:00] – Personas vs. demographics and how to create them
[00:18:00] – The training that failed because of a 64K connection
[00:21:00] – Behaviour change starts with meaning, not more info
[00:24:00] – Thinking beyond LMS: the electric vehicle expo story
[00:27:00] – Using triggers like clickbait (ethically!) in learning
[00:30:00] – How to get buy-in for new ideas: “yes, and…”
[00:32:00] – Common resistance from L&D purists and how to respond
[00:34:00] – Why standing your ground takes time and confidence
[00:37:00] – Inspiration sources and real-world marketing examples
[00:41:00] – Bianca’s first learning crush: a situational leadership course
[00:43:00] – Mike’s least favourite myth: learning styles
We’d love your feedback!
What did you think of this episode? Do you apply any marketing ideas in your training design? Let us know via [email] or drop us a message on [LinkedIn].
📣 Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with fellow L&D pros who want to make learning actually work.
