ABOUT THIS EPISODE
“Immersive learning is all about having these assumptions and putting them to the test.”
Michiel Hulsbergen, Founder @ DialogueTrainer
Episode 02 – Michiel Hulsbergen on Training Conversational Skills with Digital Avatars
In this second episode of the Training Improvement Café, Roy sits down with psychologist and DialogueTrainer founder Michiel Hulsbergen. Together, they explore how conversation simulations can boost learning transfer, help professionals build real confidence, and make complex interpersonal skills more trainable and scalable.
💡 Spoiler alert: If you think your training is effective because learners feel confident, think again.
About Michiel
Michiel Hulsbergen is a psychologist with a background in business administration and decades of experience in conversation skills training. He started out as a training actor before founding DialogueTrainer, a company that creates simulation-based learning environments for soft skills. With over 20 years in the field and a decade focused on learning technologies, Michiel brings a rich perspective on the intersection of psychology, emotions, and technology-enhanced learning.
What you'll learn in this episode:
Why Michiel thinks traditional text-based training can create false confidence
How interactive simulations make learners more aware of complex interpersonal dynamics
Why emotion and believability are essential ingredients in learning transfer
How DialogueTrainer’s tools are used to support real-world leadership development
The impact of avatar-based practice versus real-life role play
The surprising power of immersive learning to surface implicit skills and emotional insight
Featured Simulation: Game-Changing Leadership
Roy and Michiel explore a live leadership simulation that helps managers improve coaching skills through realistic dialogue. The demo showcases:
Building rapport and guiding conversations strategically
Subtle emotional cues in avatar interactions
Reflective decision-making in high-stakes leadership moments
Quick tips to apply right away
Don’t just aim for confidence—aim for realistic confidence. Simulations can challenge learners’ assumptions and surface hidden gaps in their skills.
Use emotion as a signal, not a distraction. Train learners to reflect on their emotional responses during conversations to better understand behaviour.
Combine text and simulation. Reading builds understanding, but simulations provoke reflection and make learning stick.
Start with practice, not theory. Use immersive scenarios to confront learners with realistic challenges before offering explanatory models.
Design for reflection, not just performance. Include moments where learners pause, assess options, and predict outcomes.
Role-play isn't dead—it's scalable. Use avatar-based role-play to create safe, repeatable practice environments that mimic real pressure.
Michiel’s sources of inspiration
Keith Keating – The Trusted Learning Advisor
Paul Ekman – Facial expression and emotion theory
Lisa Feldman Barrett – Constructed emotion and behavioural science
Nico Frijda – Emotions as promoters of interest
Frans de Waal – Primate behaviour and social interaction
Want to learn more?
Visit dialoguetrainer.com to explore the tools and research behind DialogueTrainer.
Read The Trusted Learning Advisor by Keith Keating for a call to arms for modern L&D professionals.
Look up Frans de Waal’s Chimpanzee Politics for behavioural insights with a smile.
We'd love your feedback!
What did you think of this episode? Share your thoughts or questions with us at roy@anewspring.nl or tag us on LinkedIn.
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