WEBVTT
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Let's get started.
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So, this chuva we're gonna do is in Helik Vov, Yarude Chile Gimel, Simon Lamervov.
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And it's important to note which chuva it is, because as we'll discuss, it is not the only truva in which you're on the topic.
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This particular chuva is written on August 18th, 1972.
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We're not doing that one.
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And the Shila is from or of Arye Lab, I don't know if I'm pronouncing his last name right, Grossness.
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Gross Nas, who himself was a big Talmakim, the chaber of Chuva Slav Arye.
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He was a Tamader of Barakber.
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He was appointed to the London Besdan at the age of 37, and that was his position at the time that he wrote the Shylas.
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You see, Raisha refers to him as the Rivid Bahabadatsva London.
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Eventually he left London and moved to Harris Stroll.
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I think he was affiliated with the Heveran Yeshiva.
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Either way, he sends the following uh Shiloh to Ramaisha, a very basic Shila, but a very important and still relevant Shiloh.
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And he describes a situation where a certain individual had holes in his heart, which I believe the medical term is congenital septal defect.
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Easier to understand as holes in the heart, in which the doctor said he was going to die soon.
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And what they wanted to do is they wanted to perform a procedure in which they would close up the holes with Romasha says plastic, which I believe is a synthetic patch.
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And if the surgery is successful, the patient can live for another five to ten years.
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But there's a concern that the operation will be unsuccessful and not only will not extend his life by five to ten, five to ten years.
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What?
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If I thought it's 15.
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I think it means five or ten years.
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Okay.
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But it's possible he will die instantly or close to instantly from the surgery.
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So there's a risk that not only will you not extend his life, but you will shorten his life.
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And obviously, it's a very relevant Shail.
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And the question is, are you allowed to do such a surgery?
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So Ramosha points out that the Shail does not describe what the doctor said, what the odds are, what the percentages are of success, right?
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Is it 50%?
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Is it 80%, 20%?
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What are the odds that the operation will be successful?
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So Ramisha says we need to discuss all the possibilities.
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Now it's important just to just to uh to clarify that Ramosha um kind of uses two different terminologies.
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He uses the possibility that something is dovra shakel, but we'd say 50-50, or it's something where there's a rife, right?
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Where it's rife going one way, and if there's a rife, we probably will assume that that will be the result.
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Rife for good, then it'll probably be successful.
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Rife for bad, it'll probably not be successful.
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It's just important to keep that terminology in mind.
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Obviously, when you say 50-50, like when you should use dovrah shakel, I don't think it literally means 50-50.
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It's not like there's, at least at this stage, relevant data to say that it's 50-50.
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51, 50, 49, it would be a completely different result.
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It just means we don't know.
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It might be successful, it might not be, versus where there's a river, it's probably going to be successful.
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Or probably, yeah.
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But yeah, mechsa, mechsah, right?
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Everyone should have viewed themselves as mechsah.
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Fine.
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Um now, so the shil himself brings the Gilead Marshal.
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The Gilead Marshah quotes a Shwasyakov that seemingly rules exactly on this case because what the Shwasyakov is dealing with is a situation where someone was very, very sick, deathly ill, and the doctors had prescribed to him some kind of medication that would make him throw up.
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I assume violently throw up, and I guess that was a way of getting rid of the sickness.
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I don't think that that is practiced today, although I don't know.
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Um, and it might work, right?
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But it also might not.
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It might kill, it might kill the patient.
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Yeah.
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And um the Shvasyakov says it's mutter.
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What's the what was his what was his rationale?
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Because it's based on the Gamarna Bhaizar.
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And this Gomorra's key to understand this chapter.
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Gomarabajazara says that we know this halakha that you're not allowed to be misrappam in ivikam, you're not allowed to get treatment by an akum.
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Whatever that means, whether that applies today or not, is not relevant for this purpose of the discussion.
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Let's just call him an akum.
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There's a certain type of ivil kichabin that you're not allowed to get treated by because we're concerned that he's gonna kill you.
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Um, and the Gemara says, therefore, if somebody is suffighai suffak mace, he has a sickness, not sure whether he's gonna live, not sure whether he's gonna die, he has no heter to be misrapped from an akum.
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However, says the Gemara, if he's Vaday Mes, if he's going to die anyway, it's mutter.
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I let's say he kills the guy on the operating table, says, and and therefore he's cutting off, let's say he was gonna die in a week, so he's cutting off a week of his life, says the Gemara, we don't care about a small time, we don't care about a temporary life, right?
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So says the Shvasiaku.
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That's the Gemara is talking about getting misrapar from a raccoon, but the khir it's the same khajman with respect to uh an operation that may go south, right?
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You might this might work and he might have an extended life.
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Aye, it might not work.
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You might cut off a week or a month from his life.
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That is the the Shvasyakov's taina.
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So the khaira, that's it.
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We can end the share now.
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Shishala's over.
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It says uh says Remish, not so fast.
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Because let's take a step back, let's analyze the sugya before we uh decide that the Shvasyakov applies here.
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Because when the Gemara says that you cannot be misrapped from an akum, Rashi says, why not?
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Because an akum will Vaday kill him.
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Vada.
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And Ramasha points out, of course, it doesn't mean Vaday 100%, it means rife.
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So it's an akum?
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An akum is literally someone who worships Avay Dazara, right?
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Sometimes Akum means just a non-Jew, but Lakhira here, we obviously we all get treated by non-Jews.
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It means a specific pagan.
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Article translates it's as pagan, which the doctor?
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Yeah, the doctor's a pagan.
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Yeah.
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Uh the doctor is someone who is chashit, who we suspect may have it out for the Jews and may want to kill them.
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So so uh so it's so about the vadai doesn't mean 100%.
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Obviously it's 100%.
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Why would you even bother to get to the operation?
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It means a rifle it means that there's a majority, yeah.
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So that's what Rashi says.
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So Rasha says, um, it's it's but Rosh is bottled like, why did Rashi have to say that?
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Yeah?
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Why did Rashi have to say?
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The chaira, the Gomorrah says, Safikai suffik mace, right?
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If someone is not sure, which sounds like 50-50, might live, might die.
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So you Rashi could have said, and if he goes to the doctor, also, suffi chai suffig mace, he might live or might die.
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So therefore you can't be misrapped for life of common.
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Why?
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Because if it's 50-50 either way, first of all, Shabbatasa Adiv, and also, says Ramesha, add it to the fact that even if if if this, you know, there's a 50% chance this guy's a good guy, right?
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There's still a chance that any surgery can can fail.
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Any surgery, there's always human error, right?
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Even if he's a good guy.
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So it's really less than 50%.
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So why does Rashi need to say Vade?
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No, no, there's a right that he's a bad guy.
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What compels Rashi to say that?
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Yeah.
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And also, Noesha says, Misfar it's hard to understand Rashi because you know, Anaya's not here to be the the the advocate for the aqum, but like it seems hard to say that like the vast majority of Ayyu Kakham doctors want to kill you.
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We know the halacha is that even acham, you're allowed to get treated from if he's a mumcha, right?
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Because he has a reputation to protect.
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So maybe this doctor is a good argument he made.
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This doctor, obviously, he's not a mumcha, because if it was mumcha, like we said, it'd be mutter, but he wants to be a mumcha.
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You know, he just graduated medic medical school, he's trying to climb the ranks, and maybe he doesn't want to kill all his patients, you know, the the first week on the job.
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So Ramasha Miswara doesn't doesn't understand why what what why Rashi is to say that.
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It must be, says Ramaisha, that Rashi, Rashi was forced to say it.
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He was forced to say it by the seifa.
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Because the seifa says that if he's Vadae gonna die, then Vada, if Vadae's gonna die, I mean the person is is raining off for death, he's going to die, then and only then can he get treated from an Akam.
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It sounds like if there's any suffic that he might live, yeah, he can't get he can't get treatment from the Aqam.
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But if the Akham, if the odds, the Akkum is a bad guy is only 50-50, why would it be Us sir?
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If there's if if why would it be Us sir if there's only a small chance that he's gonna survive without treatment?
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If there's only a 10% chance he's gonna survive without treatment, sounds like it's still us to be treated from this Accum.
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But if it's 50-50, that the Accam is a good guy or a bad guy, why would you not be treated by an Akkam?
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Can Zine says Rashi, Ramosha leave it the Rashi, it has to be that the Vart is that no, it's not 50-50, that the vast majority of Ive Khovim do want to kill.
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Now, okay, I said a little too far because what Ramosha says that there's a there's a there's a Raif here, but it's not Pesha, it's not like I said, that the vast majority want to kill.
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No, no, no.
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The Vart is taka, like Romisha said, it's 50-50.
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It is 50-50.
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But why do we say Raiv Lamisa?
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Because, like we said, the fact that even if the doctor is well-meaning, even if the doctor is well-meaning, it still could go south, and therefore the odds are that any operation, I mean if you have an operation from a good guy, so it's, you know, 100% chance he's a good guy, and then let's say a 10% chance of failure.
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Fine, no problem, 90%.
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I made up that number.
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But if you have a 50% chance that he's a good guy, 50% is a bad guy, add in the 10% that even is a good guy or a bad guy, and you have a rife that that that that this is gonna go south, that he's gonna die.
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Fine.
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So it says in relation now that we have Shatten this with him shatterashi, this whole heter of the Shvasiakov is although heter to get refor from an Akam is a case where the Akham is telling you this is a good surgery.
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This is like a 100% surgery.
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And then we have to say, well, is he a good Akham or a bad Akham?
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50% chance he's good, 50% chance he's bad, right?
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Now Resha has an interesting judgment, right?
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He says, so the way it works is as follows.
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Usually we say when you go to an Occam, half the doctors want to kill you, and the percentage uh of good doctors who mess up, and we have a rife, right?
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But in a case where the guy is going to die anyway, right?
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This is the the heter, the heter case where the guy's gonna divide the mace, right?
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So we have a 50% chance that the guy is well-meaning.
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And plus you have a small percent chance that things will go south, but says Rmisha, on this we say Lacha Isha'lakhashina.
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On this we say Lacha Isha.
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Why?
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It's very interesting, Swara, because anytime anytime someone does a surgery, there's a there's a risk.
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And yet, it's mutter.
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Every right, every doctor's allowed to perform a surgery.
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Why?
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It's a special hat of a rapa yarap, and she goes at length, what the hat there is, maybe I'm not like this.
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There's a special hath that any time you let's say a Yasral or a non-akam does uh performs a treatment, we allow it, right?
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So in nichlal in the din of a rapa yarapa, is that we're allowed to sometimes ignore that small percentage risk of things going south.
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So the var in Rashi, the Pshat in Rashi is that if you have a case where the guy is Vada going to die, he's going to die anyway.
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So true, there is a riv that says that if I get treated by the Akam, I'm gonna die because it's 50-50, plus you add in the percentage of things that go south.
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But the Tarah in Rav Irape gives us the right to ignore that small percentage.
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And in a case where Vada's gonna die, you're allowed to get treated, right?
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But if we take that to our shail, the khajman doesn't work for anything less than 50-50, right?
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But if you have a case where the surgery itself is in doubt whether it's gonna work, right?
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Where the surgery itself, uh, uh let's say it this way the only time Hazal give us the right to ignore Hayeshah is where it's 50-50, technically, plus 50-50 on the success, plus 50-50 ignore, I'm sorry, you're right.
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50 on the doctor, plus there's a there's a there's a uh uh a small percentage chance that things will go south.
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So here too, now that's when we're talking about an ACA.
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When we want to bring it to our case, we're talking about the risk that the surgery will will kill you, right?
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The the the the only time we can use this heteros if we have the same cognitive.
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Where it's a 50-50% chance that the surgery will be successful.
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If it's 50% chance, if the doctor says 50-50, remember we're calling it a good doctor now, we don't have to worry about bad doctors right now.
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50% chance the surgery is successful.
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So we say, well, it's probably a little more than that because everything things can go south, but it's fine because we're allowed to ignore that, the special dinner rap y rape.
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But if the doctor himself is telling us 30-70, there's only a 30% chance this works.
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The whole chashm falls apart.
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The whole khajma doesn't work, it only works by a 50-50 shoko, where we're not sure whether surgery is going to land.
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Why don't we focus on very verse?
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Right.
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I hear that's not that's that but that's not that's not the way Rashi says it, right?
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That's not the way Rash understands Rashi.
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Right.
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Now, yeah.
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Um, so so comes out of Ramash.
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Rematha seems to conclude.
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I mean he concludes, he concludes this way, that you are allowed to get a surgery that potentially will kill you, the Hai Shahlai Hashinon, if there's a 50% if the doctor says a 50% chance of success.
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But anything less than a 50% chance of success, no good.
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You can't get the operation, and it would be usr.
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It would be asr.
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However, the Shah quotes an Achiazr.
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Nachyzer Khaimaizer, Rachyazr explicitly says, not like that.
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He says, even if the odds are that the patient is odds of the patient that can die is more than 50%, it's mutter.
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Yeah, and he quotes a safe from Mishnah Shaqah.
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Mishnah says like Ramasha that it's Dafka 50%, and the Ahyazr rejects it.
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Why?
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Very simple rationale.
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The Gomara says, that's it, nothing else to discuss.
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What are you afraid of?
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Why are you afraid of getting the surgery?
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Well, he might cut off three days from his life.
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That's it.
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2%, 10%, 80%, doesn't matter.
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That's that's that that's that's uh that's that's uh Rukhai Mai's sorry.
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And so therefore says Remisha, a peladic line that if anyone else would say you could accept, but for a Mysha to say it's so difficult to accept, he says, Ava Kapana Ladina, Kim and the Achiazr Ladina.
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Say Lalakha.
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So you smack in the middle of the second column Raisha Machas.
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Since the Achiazr says it's not a kar of Yaisal Misa, even if the odds are in favor that the person's gonna die, me, Yucha Limcha is Femisha, right?
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So listen to who can object if anyone wants to rely on the Achiazr?
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He says, Ladina, who am I?
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Who can anybody be to say that you could object to relying on the achiez?
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And if you know anything about Ramasha, Ramasha, I'm sure, no doubt he held our Khaimaizer in the highest regard.
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But Ramash is not afraid to argue with the Khassam Cyfer.
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He's not afraid to argue with Kvegra.
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Sometimes it seems like he's not afraid to argue with Rashainim, or he would say that it's a tali safer because he doesn't want to actually say I'm arguing with Rashainim.
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:22.799
Also Rukhai Maizer says, when it comes to a case of nafeshmish, Romaj holds it in Israel, Bikwah Nafesh, it's a Khashash.
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:25.679
And Ramash says, listen, Rukhim Maizer.
00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:26.960
Rhachimaizer says you can rely on it.
00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:28.639
And more than that, we're going to keep going in the chuvah.
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:32.000
He keeps handling within Rukhaimaizer what the halach should be, different caveats.
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:34.000
Like, like you take it seriously.
00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:35.519
More to the point.
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:36.320
More to the point.
00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:38.240
Forget about relying on Rukhai Mazer.
00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:40.320
There's someone else Reshia could rely on him.
00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:41.919
And that's Ramasha Weinstein.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:49.440
Because in Yorodeya Khailak Bays, I forgot the exact chuvah, Ramasha deals with this exact same, not the same Shayol, not the same.
00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:50.799
We'll get to the date in a second.
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:52.639
It was okay, it was written 11 years earlier.
00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:53.840
11 years before the Shayla.
00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:55.440
11 years before the Shaila, but it was published in Yar.
00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:56.320
This is Yarodeya Base.
00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:58.080
Yar Gimel uses Yorodeya base.
00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:03.440
Remaisha deals with the exact same situation, not the same case, not the same patient, the same situation.
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:13.360
He goes to the alumnus, does not discuss this whole Rashi, this whole stukotarian rashi, and he says that he tells the Shayla, you heard a rumor that I martyred, uh like Rav Hankin, who also martyred, and yeah, I agree.
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:15.039
I martyr, and Rav Hankin mantred.
00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:19.120
And in this one, doesn't say a word about his former remember, says, You're a day based to gimmel.
00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:20.879
You know, it's well, it's one volume to the next.
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:22.240
Doesn't mention that he mantored.
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:23.759
He says, Oh, I'll have a Rahim Eiser.
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:24.960
Doesn't mention it.
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:32.080
So um reached out to the Rav and I asked him if the if the islam you know handles this like acknowledgement.
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:37.440
Like, you know, it's one thing when you have, so like we did chuva Ramaisha, did Chuchuva Ramaisha on plastic surgery and on dieting.
00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:38.639
It was two different fact patterns.
00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:40.159
So the lumbust seemed to contradict each other.
00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:41.759
Okay, isn't mom is the same Shiloh?
00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:42.879
It's the same Shiloh, can you take her?
00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:45.440
And there he says, doesn't matter the risk, doesn't matter the percentage, you can do it.
00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:46.720
Mama's like Miser.
00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:48.639
So the Rav sent me a few things.
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:50.799
But one thing he sent me was from the safer Masiris Mesh.
00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:52.559
Massiris Mesh is a very recent, very recent safer.
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:55.519
But they published, I assume it's Tamidima Ramaisha published different things.
00:14:55.600 --> 00:15:00.159
Uh and and um they write there, they acknowledge this.
00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:04.879
A lot of, a lot of, there's a lot of literature that acknowledges the steer, but I didn't see anybody address the stera.
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:13.200
Um, and they write there that Rameisha told the author that that he mattered it, he acknowledges the sthira.
00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:17.919
He acknowledges that Yaradehi Lakbase he says one way and Yardeihi Likimal, he's Machmeh says the other way.
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.559
And he says that the reason for his shift is because he started trusting doctors less.
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:28.960
And when doctors would say that, oh yeah, it's gonna be successful, the odds are successful, Mr Shakram, he says, they were lying.
00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:33.519
Remaicha clearly, clearly, according to this report, got burnt in between the two of that.
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.720
Now, again, I can't argue on Talmud and Raisha, that's what he said, that's great.
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:41.279
It's just very difficult for me to accept because it's not the different conclusion, it's different lumbdas.
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:47.600
Remisha he goes to the lumdas there, the same suya, sugya navadazara, and it comes out in a different place in lumdes.
00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:49.600
And I it's so it's very difficult for me to say it.
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:56.240
But at the same time, it also kind of acknowledges or addresses like why Remisha was so machine himself to Rukhaimizer.
00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.639
Because maybe in Lumdas he Taka was masking.
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:01.440
He just he just he felt burnt by the doctor.
00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:02.399
The doctors lied to him.
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:06.080
He didn't want to publish a, you know, in this second Shuba, he didn't want to publish a Heter.
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:10.080
And therefore he, you know, he said, okay, listen, Rachimaizer says I'll rely on Rhachimiser.
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:18.399
Then the funniest thing is at the end of this paragraph of Reserve's Maisha, they write in that Romisha said that he would only trust uh, this is after Ramash said I was Chizer because the doctor's lying to me.
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:23.120
He says Ramaisha would only trust the doctors if they said 40% chance of success or more.
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.720
40% is not like the second chuva, it's like the first chuva.
00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.840
So the the athos itself is really difficult to understand.
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:40.639
You say Ramaisha was Chaizer from the first to the second, but then the 40% number comes to the first, unless you say, listen, Ramaisha was being, you know, was saying, like, okay, like Rokhai Maizer, but at least it has to be a reasonable number, 40% number.
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:41.120
Okay.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:41.679
Fine.
00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:43.840
Now, keep going in the chhuva.
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:44.639
Yeah.
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:49.120
Um, now, assuming it's mutter, we have to address a very fundamental question.
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:49.919
What is Khaisha?
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:50.879
What is Khaisha?
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:51.279
Right?
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:57.279
So the Achiazr says it's obvious there's no distinction between one day or two days, a few months, right?
00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:03.840
And therefore, the the Rub Khaimaj was dealing with a case of six months, and he says it's still Chaisha, still Khaisha, even six months, right?
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:07.599
But the Shah you'll ask, it acknowledges the question is a valid question.
00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:10.400
If six months is still Chaisha, then where's the line?
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:10.640
Right?
00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:16.960
And Major doesn't say it this way, but you know, no, we don't like to we don't like to think about it, but everything isha, right?
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:23.759
You could be cured from a disease when you're when you're four years old and live a healthy life till 100, but it's still temporary, he's still only got 96 years, right?
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:25.039
So everything, where's the line?
00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.839
When does something become Haisha for Khaimaj is willing to go up to six months?
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.599
Cesar Mesh, very intuitive art.
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:36.640
He says that if someone is sick and without a procedure, he will continue to get worse until he eventually dies.
00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:37.839
That's Haisha.
00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:41.839
Whether he'll die tomorrow, next week, six months, that's immaterial.
00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.599
The point is that this disease is going to kill him, right?
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:50.240
And uh um, Cesar Mesh, with this logic, it can even be more than six months.
00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:51.279
You can be more than six months.
00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:52.880
Is that logical basin something?
00:17:53.200 --> 00:18:00.960
It's logic, it's a sephara, it's quotes Rashid, but who can you say, but it's not a right, it's just you know, using the idea of uh of diseases progressively getting worse.
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:08.400
Now, Roishus points out, he says that in order to be allowed to obtain the operation, even in the world of Rachimizer, avowed there has to be a possibility that he gets better.
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:09.839
What does get better mean?
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.640
Now, of course, if the guy's gonna be back to himself, great, wonderful.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:15.200
The reality is that's not usually how it works, Rachel says.
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:22.559
Even if the person is not gonna be fully back to himself, but he's gonna have to, you know, take medication potentially for the rest of his life, he's gonna have to monitor his diet and all those things.
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.039
If he's cured from his disease, he's cured from the disease.
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:26.000
That's that's still fine.
00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:27.920
That's considered an operation as current from disease.
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:33.359
But the point is, if the operation will just extend his life expectancy, he's gonna have this disease, a chronic disease, he's gonna have it.
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:39.279
If without the operation, he'll live a year, uh, with the operation, he'll live three years with the same disease, and the same disease is gonna kill him, you have no head there.
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:41.599
You have no head through to put yourself in a risk of dying.
00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.920
I mean, of course, you know, um uh if that's not the you know, if he's not, there's no risk of death.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:48.160
But don't cure it.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:49.279
Fault progression.
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:56.000
It's these things are very there's a lot of literature on this, late literature because of the yeah, yeah, it's these are very, very tough questions.
00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.119
Obviously, everyone should ask a rough before uh coming to a stock.
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:06.640
Um now Raj says, what if you have what if you have so much says, okay, now let's say you have a case where a guy has a disease he's gonna die from, but he can live with a number of years.
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.119
So six months, but let's say it's five years.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:17.839
Like even though Ramisha just got off saying there's no number, there has to be something where it's you know, you know, so Risha says, it's different he says six months.
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:20.480
So I'll take the Achiez six months and I'll raise him to a year.
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.279
A year, because in Halakha, there's really no difference between six months and a year.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.480
But more than a year, Ramisha says, I don't know.
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:31.279
He and he and he and he hints at kind of what the Messier's Mysha says to he starts not trusting the doctors.
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:33.839
More than a year, you're gonna die from this disease in two years.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.319
Really?
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:34.799
Really?
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:44.559
So this is right, Rebbe Rebbe JD Bleich has a piece on this and uh and uh on this sugia, and he he did deals with a case of like a leukemia surgery, which is like 13 months or something like that.
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:47.279
And and and and JD Black, I think, makes it a compelling case.
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:48.799
I think Remisha should be masking 30.
00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:57.599
Even though we said a year, when we're dealing with a very clear disease with a clear timeline, and and it's 13 months, and he this is what I thought this time, well, just wait, wait a month, right?
00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:58.559
And then get the surgery then.
00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:00.240
It's no, because it just makes it worse.
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:01.440
You need to get the surgery as soon as possible.
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.359
And Lakhar is ever passion, I think.
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.440
That even Remote says the line of 12 months, it's not a hard 12 months.
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:13.039
It's a certain hashka to say that if a doctor says you could this disease will kill you in four years, yeah, I don't know about that.
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:14.160
Let's let's wait this out.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.480
But again, if you if you could get a a non-life-threatening surgery, it's a whole different discussion.
00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:19.920
But talking about a life-threatening surgery.
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.400
Okay, now every surgery has that risk.
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:24.640
Right, but that's recluded in rapay rapine.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.160
That you're allowed to take a level of risk.
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:28.880
Yeah, non-mission.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:29.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:31.839
I mean, ask or of, but yes.
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.880
Um now, so we've addressed the question that you're allowed to.
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:35.920
What about is there a heav?
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:37.279
Do you have to get the surgery?
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:38.480
Does the person have a choice?
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:43.119
So the Shayel argues that the Lashad Nogomara and the Piscom is misrappin', you're gonna get healed.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:43.759
Sounds like an option.
00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:45.440
And Remisha's masking to that Dio.
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:48.400
Yeah, but he remisha throws in a line that frustrates me.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:49.599
He doesn't elaborate.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:55.839
He just says, if the odds are, if there's a right that the surgery is going to be successful, then we have a riv and the stomach you're required.
00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:01.440
He doesn't really elaborate why, but he does elaborate on his concept that there's this idea that you have the option.
00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:05.519
That if it's a dovrarashakal, if it's a 50-50 chance, where Ramisha, even Romisha's not there.
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:06.319
Forget what Rhaim is there.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:08.559
50-50 chance, Romisha's not says you have the option.
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:09.519
And what's his raya?
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:10.720
How much time do we have?
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:12.160
Okay, we'll go make it quick.
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:13.839
The raya is because where do we know?
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.599
The one that says the Khaisha by Hashina.
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:16.079
What's the raya?
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:27.519
The raya is from the our boy mitzuray, and the four mitzurayim were in the Machni Israel, they were thrown out of Machni Yisral, they were in the middle of a hunger because our Ram had laid siege on them, and they say, We're gonna die anyway, right?
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:28.480
We're gonna die anyway.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:29.599
Let's go invade our Ram.
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:30.319
If we get food, great.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:33.440
We take our shot, Mamash, Khaishah.
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.240
Same, the same khaj.
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.640
Says the mysha, Bam Kasha, who are these four people?
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:38.400
Gechazi, bottom.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:39.039
You know what Gehazi is?
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.519
Ignore it says, Khaliesh, with a few exceptions.
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:43.039
You know one of the exceptions is Kechazi.
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:44.559
We're bringing a rayah from Gechazi.
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:49.039
Says a Meshah, uh, uh, an amazing, amazing bird that only myself should probably get away with saying.
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:52.960
He says that the bird is the gnar is not saying we learn from Gechazi what the halach is.
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.599
No, the halach is how much do we value human life?
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:57.680
It's totally in you, it's subject, it's subjective.
00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.920
It's totally in what human beings decide is valuable.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.240
Now, obviously, you can be this can be a very, very dangerous line.
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:04.480
You cannot misuse this to say other things.
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:10.400
But when it comes to the question of the khayisha, the Tiruh gives us the license to figure out as a society what's valuable and what's not.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.799
And we're bringing a riah from Gechhazi Yubana the Al-Khaisha.
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.599
That we're willing to risk, yeah, we're gonna die in two days from hunger.
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.680
We might as well go in Ta'ram, and we'll get worst case, we'll get killed and we'll lose two days of Khaisha alayhi khashina.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:20.880
That's what we're bringing a rayah to.
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:28.160
But now that Ramasha's machine, this subjective role that we play in Allah, so the same thing when you have a 50-50 surgery, and Ray says, No problem.
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:31.119
I have no problem deferring to the patient and saying, if you want, you can.
00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:35.359
Now, usually a person has a duty to keep himself healthy and to get whatever operations he need to live.
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:39.680
But in such a case where there's a chance he might die, it's a 50-50 chance, and right says you have the right to decide yes or no.
00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:43.519
And Ramay says, listen, we know that people have different, you know, some people he says by fighting financially.
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:46.400
Some people are more take aggressive risks, some people are more conservative, right?
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:47.599
Same thing, same thing with life.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:49.359
Person has there's a lot of flexibility.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:50.880
You're a lawyer, you're very conservative.
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:51.519
Yeah?
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:54.400
Um uh okay, fine.
00:22:54.640 --> 00:23:01.759
But Risha says, in this particular case, there is an issue because the shall said that the doctors told the patient that he's actually not necessarily gonna die.
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.640
If he just stays in bed the rest of his life, he'll be fine.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.480
And you're rolling your eyes, but says Ramaisha, I don't I don't even understand the Shylaw.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.119
This guy's not in mortal danger, he should stay in bed.
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:16.400
He says, We have no potential, there's no heter to potentially carry yourself because you want to walk to the supermarket.
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.319
He hasn't used the word supermarket, he's more sensitive than that.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:19.519
But right, that's what it comes down to.
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:20.480
No, stay in bed.
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:25.039
He says, You wonder what would have been a better shylah if you would have said, I have a non-life-threatening surgery.
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.920
Can a person get a non-life-threatening surgery so he can walk again?
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:29.759
Or do you say there's a problem with Khavala?
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:30.799
That would be a good shylain.
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:33.119
Now, remember she says, Don't worry, that's mutter, right?
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.359
I in the truva that we did on plastic surgery, same khajman, dark nietzayan, it's fine.
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:38.640
It's not dark nitzain, it's fine.
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:40.880
But if that's a good shyin, this is not a good shylain.
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:41.519
Yeah?
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:48.079
Now, which doctor do you have to use a uh so that the the achiez are quotes from the Yemish Kham that you should use a non-Jewish doctor?
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.839
Yeah, you should use a non-Jewish doctor because it's Khashavate Sirtzakh if this operation goes wrong.
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.880
Khaimiser says, and Remisha agrees with Khai Miser, nechtesi.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:56.720
If it's mutter for you, it's mutter for the doctor.
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.319
Remember the Shaziakas cases where the guy was giving himself the treatment to throw up the food.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:05.200
And there's an issue of like Sirtzah on yourself, doesn't matter if it's mutter is mutter, doesn't matter, it doesn't matter which doctor, which doctor.
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:07.759
And therefore, that uh that concludes the discussion.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:13.680
And again, just to summarize, Remisha himself is like the Lahachmir, if the odds are that the operation will fail.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:16.000
But if it's 50-50, he's makeal.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:27.759
However, he ultimately defers to Rakhaimiser, which is like Ramoshin, his earlier truva, which he does not mention in this particular tuva, but there's a few caveats, it must be a situation where a the surgery will make him better, it won't just prolong his life expectancy.
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:30.720
B, if he doesn't get the surgery, he's going to die within the year.
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.599
And C has to be he's actually gonna die, not just be stuck in bed.
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:40.400
There's no Khiev to get the surgery, there's an option to get the surgery if you want to, and no difference of using a Jewish or non Jewish doctor.
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:46.400
Adkan the rest of the chuva is about a totally different side topic where it goes after the achiez are about killing a tray, but nothing to do with the actual Shaila.
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:47.599
So we could end the chair here.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:00.880
Let's get started.
00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:08.560
So, this chuva we're gonna do is in Helik Vov, Yarude Chile Gimel, Simon Lamervov.
00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:13.839
And it's important to note which chuva it is, because as we'll discuss, it is not the only truva in which you're on the topic.
00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:17.600
This particular chuva is written on August 18th, 1972.
00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:18.879
We're not doing that one.
00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:23.440
And the Shila is from or of Arye Lab, I don't know if I'm pronouncing his last name right, Grossness.
00:00:23.679 --> 00:00:28.399
Gross Nas, who himself was a big Talmakim, the chaber of Chuva Slav Arye.
00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:29.839
He was a Tamader of Barakber.
00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:35.200
He was appointed to the London Besdan at the age of 37, and that was his position at the time that he wrote the Shylas.
00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:38.719
You see, Raisha refers to him as the Rivid Bahabadatsva London.
00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:41.600
Eventually he left London and moved to Harris Stroll.
00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:43.200
I think he was affiliated with the Heveran Yeshiva.
00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:50.960
Either way, he sends the following uh Shiloh to Ramaisha, a very basic Shila, but a very important and still relevant Shiloh.
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:59.280
And he describes a situation where a certain individual had holes in his heart, which I believe the medical term is congenital septal defect.
00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:05.200
Easier to understand as holes in the heart, in which the doctor said he was going to die soon.
00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:14.239
And what they wanted to do is they wanted to perform a procedure in which they would close up the holes with Romasha says plastic, which I believe is a synthetic patch.
00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:19.760
And if the surgery is successful, the patient can live for another five to ten years.
00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:27.280
But there's a concern that the operation will be unsuccessful and not only will not extend his life by five to ten, five to ten years.
00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:27.519
What?
00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:29.280
If I thought it's 15.
00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:31.599
I think it means five or ten years.
00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:32.719
Okay.
00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:36.959
But it's possible he will die instantly or close to instantly from the surgery.
00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:40.640
So there's a risk that not only will you not extend his life, but you will shorten his life.
00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:42.480
And obviously, it's a very relevant Shail.
00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:44.719
And the question is, are you allowed to do such a surgery?
00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:52.480
So Ramosha points out that the Shail does not describe what the doctor said, what the odds are, what the percentages are of success, right?
00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:53.280
Is it 50%?
00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:54.799
Is it 80%, 20%?
00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:56.959
What are the odds that the operation will be successful?
00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:59.840
So Ramisha says we need to discuss all the possibilities.
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:07.840
Now it's important just to just to uh to clarify that Ramosha um kind of uses two different terminologies.
00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:16.159
He uses the possibility that something is dovra shakel, but we'd say 50-50, or it's something where there's a rife, right?
00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:20.240
Where it's rife going one way, and if there's a rife, we probably will assume that that will be the result.
00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:22.960
Rife for good, then it'll probably be successful.
00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:24.960
Rife for bad, it'll probably not be successful.
00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:27.199
It's just important to keep that terminology in mind.
00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:33.039
Obviously, when you say 50-50, like when you should use dovrah shakel, I don't think it literally means 50-50.
00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:37.439
It's not like there's, at least at this stage, relevant data to say that it's 50-50.
00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.639
51, 50, 49, it would be a completely different result.
00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:41.840
It just means we don't know.
00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:46.400
It might be successful, it might not be, versus where there's a river, it's probably going to be successful.
00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:47.680
Or probably, yeah.
00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:49.439
But yeah, mechsa, mechsah, right?
00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:51.360
Everyone should have viewed themselves as mechsah.
00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:51.919
Fine.
00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:55.759
Um now, so the shil himself brings the Gilead Marshal.
00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:07.360
The Gilead Marshah quotes a Shwasyakov that seemingly rules exactly on this case because what the Shwasyakov is dealing with is a situation where someone was very, very sick, deathly ill, and the doctors had prescribed to him some kind of medication that would make him throw up.
00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:11.199
I assume violently throw up, and I guess that was a way of getting rid of the sickness.
00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:13.520
I don't think that that is practiced today, although I don't know.
00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:15.919
Um, and it might work, right?
00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:16.800
But it also might not.
00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:18.400
It might kill, it might kill the patient.
00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:19.120
Yeah.
00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:22.319
And um the Shvasyakov says it's mutter.
00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:24.879
What's the what was his what was his rationale?
00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:26.479
Because it's based on the Gamarna Bhaizar.
00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:27.919
And this Gomorra's key to understand this chapter.
00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:35.120
Gomarabajazara says that we know this halakha that you're not allowed to be misrappam in ivikam, you're not allowed to get treatment by an akum.
00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:39.280
Whatever that means, whether that applies today or not, is not relevant for this purpose of the discussion.
00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:40.400
Let's just call him an akum.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:45.120
There's a certain type of ivil kichabin that you're not allowed to get treated by because we're concerned that he's gonna kill you.
00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:54.800
Um, and the Gemara says, therefore, if somebody is suffighai suffak mace, he has a sickness, not sure whether he's gonna live, not sure whether he's gonna die, he has no heter to be misrapped from an akum.
00:03:54.960 --> 00:04:00.159
However, says the Gemara, if he's Vaday Mes, if he's going to die anyway, it's mutter.
00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:13.039
I let's say he kills the guy on the operating table, says, and and therefore he's cutting off, let's say he was gonna die in a week, so he's cutting off a week of his life, says the Gemara, we don't care about a small time, we don't care about a temporary life, right?
00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:14.879
So says the Shvasiaku.
00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:23.120
That's the Gemara is talking about getting misrapar from a raccoon, but the khir it's the same khajman with respect to uh an operation that may go south, right?
00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:26.639
You might this might work and he might have an extended life.
00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:27.680
Aye, it might not work.
00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:29.519
You might cut off a week or a month from his life.
00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:33.120
That is the the Shvasyakov's taina.
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:34.319
So the khaira, that's it.
00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:35.199
We can end the share now.
00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:36.160
Shishala's over.
00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:38.160
It says uh says Remish, not so fast.
00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:43.600
Because let's take a step back, let's analyze the sugya before we uh decide that the Shvasyakov applies here.
00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:50.720
Because when the Gemara says that you cannot be misrapped from an akum, Rashi says, why not?
00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:53.120
Because an akum will Vaday kill him.
00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:53.519
Vada.
00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.399
And Ramasha points out, of course, it doesn't mean Vaday 100%, it means rife.
00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:57.600
So it's an akum?
00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:01.600
An akum is literally someone who worships Avay Dazara, right?
00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:06.000
Sometimes Akum means just a non-Jew, but Lakhira here, we obviously we all get treated by non-Jews.
00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:07.199
It means a specific pagan.
00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:10.319
Article translates it's as pagan, which the doctor?
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:11.680
Yeah, the doctor's a pagan.
00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:12.000
Yeah.
00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:17.040
Uh the doctor is someone who is chashit, who we suspect may have it out for the Jews and may want to kill them.
00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:20.160
So so uh so it's so about the vadai doesn't mean 100%.
00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:21.040
Obviously it's 100%.
00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:22.879
Why would you even bother to get to the operation?
00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:25.600
It means a rifle it means that there's a majority, yeah.
00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:26.720
So that's what Rashi says.
00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:31.040
So Rasha says, um, it's it's but Rosh is bottled like, why did Rashi have to say that?
00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:31.279
Yeah?
00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:32.160
Why did Rashi have to say?
00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:34.959
The chaira, the Gomorrah says, Safikai suffik mace, right?
00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.240
If someone is not sure, which sounds like 50-50, might live, might die.
00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:43.680
So you Rashi could have said, and if he goes to the doctor, also, suffi chai suffig mace, he might live or might die.
00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:45.759
So therefore you can't be misrapped for life of common.
00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:45.920
Why?
00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:55.040
Because if it's 50-50 either way, first of all, Shabbatasa Adiv, and also, says Ramesha, add it to the fact that even if if if this, you know, there's a 50% chance this guy's a good guy, right?
00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:57.199
There's still a chance that any surgery can can fail.
00:05:57.279 --> 00:05:58.879
Any surgery, there's always human error, right?
00:05:58.959 --> 00:05:59.759
Even if he's a good guy.
00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:00.959
So it's really less than 50%.
00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:03.600
So why does Rashi need to say Vade?
00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:05.360
No, no, there's a right that he's a bad guy.
00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:07.120
What compels Rashi to say that?
00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:07.600
Yeah.
00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:18.240
And also, Noesha says, Misfar it's hard to understand Rashi because you know, Anaya's not here to be the the the advocate for the aqum, but like it seems hard to say that like the vast majority of Ayyu Kakham doctors want to kill you.
00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:22.560
We know the halacha is that even acham, you're allowed to get treated from if he's a mumcha, right?
00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:23.920
Because he has a reputation to protect.
00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:25.759
So maybe this doctor is a good argument he made.
00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:30.000
This doctor, obviously, he's not a mumcha, because if it was mumcha, like we said, it'd be mutter, but he wants to be a mumcha.
00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:35.360
You know, he just graduated medic medical school, he's trying to climb the ranks, and maybe he doesn't want to kill all his patients, you know, the the first week on the job.
00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:39.839
So Ramasha Miswara doesn't doesn't understand why what what why Rashi is to say that.
00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:42.879
It must be, says Ramaisha, that Rashi, Rashi was forced to say it.
00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:44.399
He was forced to say it by the seifa.
00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:56.879
Because the seifa says that if he's Vadae gonna die, then Vada, if Vadae's gonna die, I mean the person is is raining off for death, he's going to die, then and only then can he get treated from an Akam.
00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:02.319
It sounds like if there's any suffic that he might live, yeah, he can't get he can't get treatment from the Aqam.
00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:07.519
But if the Akham, if the odds, the Akkum is a bad guy is only 50-50, why would it be Us sir?
00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:11.920
If there's if if why would it be Us sir if there's only a small chance that he's gonna survive without treatment?
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:16.639
If there's only a 10% chance he's gonna survive without treatment, sounds like it's still us to be treated from this Accum.
00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:20.879
But if it's 50-50, that the Accam is a good guy or a bad guy, why would you not be treated by an Akkam?
00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:31.680
Can Zine says Rashi, Ramosha leave it the Rashi, it has to be that the Vart is that no, it's not 50-50, that the vast majority of Ive Khovim do want to kill.
00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:43.680
Now, okay, I said a little too far because what Ramosha says that there's a there's a there's a Raif here, but it's not Pesha, it's not like I said, that the vast majority want to kill.
00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:44.319
No, no, no.
00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:46.959
The Vart is taka, like Romisha said, it's 50-50.
00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:47.920
It is 50-50.
00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:49.839
But why do we say Raiv Lamisa?
00:07:50.240 --> 00:08:05.120
Because, like we said, the fact that even if the doctor is well-meaning, even if the doctor is well-meaning, it still could go south, and therefore the odds are that any operation, I mean if you have an operation from a good guy, so it's, you know, 100% chance he's a good guy, and then let's say a 10% chance of failure.
00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:06.000
Fine, no problem, 90%.
00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:06.959
I made up that number.
00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:15.839
But if you have a 50% chance that he's a good guy, 50% is a bad guy, add in the 10% that even is a good guy or a bad guy, and you have a rife that that that that this is gonna go south, that he's gonna die.
00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:16.240
Fine.
00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:30.959
So it says in relation now that we have Shatten this with him shatterashi, this whole heter of the Shvasiakov is although heter to get refor from an Akam is a case where the Akham is telling you this is a good surgery.
00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:33.200
This is like a 100% surgery.
00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:35.679
And then we have to say, well, is he a good Akham or a bad Akham?
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.440
50% chance he's good, 50% chance he's bad, right?
00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:41.759
Now Resha has an interesting judgment, right?
00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:44.559
He says, so the way it works is as follows.
00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:52.480
Usually we say when you go to an Occam, half the doctors want to kill you, and the percentage uh of good doctors who mess up, and we have a rife, right?
00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:55.759
But in a case where the guy is going to die anyway, right?
00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:59.440
This is the the heter, the heter case where the guy's gonna divide the mace, right?
00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:02.399
So we have a 50% chance that the guy is well-meaning.
00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:10.399
And plus you have a small percent chance that things will go south, but says Rmisha, on this we say Lacha Isha'lakhashina.
00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:11.600
On this we say Lacha Isha.
00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:12.720
Why?
00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:17.440
It's very interesting, Swara, because anytime anytime someone does a surgery, there's a there's a risk.
00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:18.480
And yet, it's mutter.
00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:20.559
Every right, every doctor's allowed to perform a surgery.
00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:20.720
Why?
00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:24.320
It's a special hat of a rapa yarap, and she goes at length, what the hat there is, maybe I'm not like this.
00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:30.399
There's a special hath that any time you let's say a Yasral or a non-akam does uh performs a treatment, we allow it, right?
00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:37.759
So in nichlal in the din of a rapa yarapa, is that we're allowed to sometimes ignore that small percentage risk of things going south.
00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:46.399
So the var in Rashi, the Pshat in Rashi is that if you have a case where the guy is Vada going to die, he's going to die anyway.
00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:54.879
So true, there is a riv that says that if I get treated by the Akam, I'm gonna die because it's 50-50, plus you add in the percentage of things that go south.
00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:59.679
But the Tarah in Rav Irape gives us the right to ignore that small percentage.
00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:03.200
And in a case where Vada's gonna die, you're allowed to get treated, right?
00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:08.799
But if we take that to our shail, the khajman doesn't work for anything less than 50-50, right?
00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:13.679
But if you have a case where the surgery itself is in doubt whether it's gonna work, right?
00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:28.320
Where the surgery itself, uh, uh let's say it this way the only time Hazal give us the right to ignore Hayeshah is where it's 50-50, technically, plus 50-50 on the success, plus 50-50 ignore, I'm sorry, you're right.
00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:33.600
50 on the doctor, plus there's a there's a there's a uh uh a small percentage chance that things will go south.
00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:35.919
So here too, now that's when we're talking about an ACA.
00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:40.240
When we want to bring it to our case, we're talking about the risk that the surgery will will kill you, right?
00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:43.919
The the the the only time we can use this heteros if we have the same cognitive.
00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:46.960
Where it's a 50-50% chance that the surgery will be successful.
00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:52.559
If it's 50% chance, if the doctor says 50-50, remember we're calling it a good doctor now, we don't have to worry about bad doctors right now.
00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:54.720
50% chance the surgery is successful.
00:10:54.879 --> 00:11:02.240
So we say, well, it's probably a little more than that because everything things can go south, but it's fine because we're allowed to ignore that, the special dinner rap y rape.
00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:06.159
But if the doctor himself is telling us 30-70, there's only a 30% chance this works.
00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.360
The whole chashm falls apart.
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:15.759
The whole khajma doesn't work, it only works by a 50-50 shoko, where we're not sure whether surgery is going to land.
00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:17.360
Why don't we focus on very verse?
00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:21.519
Right.
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.519
I hear that's not that's that but that's not that's not the way Rashi says it, right?
00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:26.960
That's not the way Rash understands Rashi.
00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:27.600
Right.
00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:29.519
Now, yeah.
00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:31.840
Um, so so comes out of Ramash.
00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:32.879
Rematha seems to conclude.
00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:43.519
I mean he concludes, he concludes this way, that you are allowed to get a surgery that potentially will kill you, the Hai Shahlai Hashinon, if there's a 50% if the doctor says a 50% chance of success.
00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:47.120
But anything less than a 50% chance of success, no good.
00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:49.600
You can't get the operation, and it would be usr.
00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:50.639
It would be asr.
00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:53.360
However, the Shah quotes an Achiazr.
00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:56.879
Nachyzer Khaimaizer, Rachyazr explicitly says, not like that.
00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:02.080
He says, even if the odds are that the patient is odds of the patient that can die is more than 50%, it's mutter.
00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:03.840
Yeah, and he quotes a safe from Mishnah Shaqah.
00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:08.159
Mishnah says like Ramasha that it's Dafka 50%, and the Ahyazr rejects it.
00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:08.399
Why?
00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:09.279
Very simple rationale.
00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:12.960
The Gomara says, that's it, nothing else to discuss.
00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:14.879
What are you afraid of?
00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:16.399
Why are you afraid of getting the surgery?
00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:18.000
Well, he might cut off three days from his life.
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:20.080
That's it.
00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:22.000
2%, 10%, 80%, doesn't matter.
00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:26.879
That's that's that that's that's uh that's that's uh Rukhai Mai's sorry.
00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:38.799
And so therefore says Remisha, a peladic line that if anyone else would say you could accept, but for a Mysha to say it's so difficult to accept, he says, Ava Kapana Ladina, Kim and the Achiazr Ladina.
00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:39.679
Say Lalakha.
00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:42.159
So you smack in the middle of the second column Raisha Machas.
00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:51.200
Since the Achiazr says it's not a kar of Yaisal Misa, even if the odds are in favor that the person's gonna die, me, Yucha Limcha is Femisha, right?
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:56.399
So listen to who can object if anyone wants to rely on the Achiazr?
00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:58.240
He says, Ladina, who am I?
00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.679
Who can anybody be to say that you could object to relying on the achiez?
00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:06.399
And if you know anything about Ramasha, Ramasha, I'm sure, no doubt he held our Khaimaizer in the highest regard.
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.480
But Ramash is not afraid to argue with the Khassam Cyfer.
00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:09.919
He's not afraid to argue with Kvegra.
00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:15.200
Sometimes it seems like he's not afraid to argue with Rashainim, or he would say that it's a tali safer because he doesn't want to actually say I'm arguing with Rashainim.
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:22.799
Also Rukhai Maizer says, when it comes to a case of nafeshmish, Romaj holds it in Israel, Bikwah Nafesh, it's a Khashash.
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:25.679
And Ramash says, listen, Rukhim Maizer.
00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:26.960
Rhachimaizer says you can rely on it.
00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:28.639
And more than that, we're going to keep going in the chuvah.
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:32.000
He keeps handling within Rukhaimaizer what the halach should be, different caveats.
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:34.000
Like, like you take it seriously.
00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:35.519
More to the point.
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:36.320
More to the point.
00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:38.240
Forget about relying on Rukhai Mazer.
00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:40.320
There's someone else Reshia could rely on him.
00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:41.919
And that's Ramasha Weinstein.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:49.440
Because in Yorodeya Khailak Bays, I forgot the exact chuvah, Ramasha deals with this exact same, not the same Shayol, not the same.
00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:50.799
We'll get to the date in a second.
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:52.639
It was okay, it was written 11 years earlier.
00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:53.840
11 years before the Shayla.
00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:55.440
11 years before the Shaila, but it was published in Yar.
00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:56.320
This is Yarodeya Base.
00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:58.080
Yar Gimel uses Yorodeya base.
00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:03.440
Remaisha deals with the exact same situation, not the same case, not the same patient, the same situation.
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:13.360
He goes to the alumnus, does not discuss this whole Rashi, this whole stukotarian rashi, and he says that he tells the Shayla, you heard a rumor that I martyred, uh like Rav Hankin, who also martyred, and yeah, I agree.
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:15.039
I martyr, and Rav Hankin mantred.
00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:19.120
And in this one, doesn't say a word about his former remember, says, You're a day based to gimmel.
00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:20.879
You know, it's well, it's one volume to the next.
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:22.240
Doesn't mention that he mantored.
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:23.759
He says, Oh, I'll have a Rahim Eiser.
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:24.960
Doesn't mention it.
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:32.080
So um reached out to the Rav and I asked him if the if the islam you know handles this like acknowledgement.
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:37.440
Like, you know, it's one thing when you have, so like we did chuva Ramaisha, did Chuchuva Ramaisha on plastic surgery and on dieting.
00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:38.639
It was two different fact patterns.
00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:40.159
So the lumbust seemed to contradict each other.
00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:41.759
Okay, isn't mom is the same Shiloh?
00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:42.879
It's the same Shiloh, can you take her?
00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:45.440
And there he says, doesn't matter the risk, doesn't matter the percentage, you can do it.
00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:46.720
Mama's like Miser.
00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:48.639
So the Rav sent me a few things.
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:50.799
But one thing he sent me was from the safer Masiris Mesh.
00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:52.559
Massiris Mesh is a very recent, very recent safer.
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:55.519
But they published, I assume it's Tamidima Ramaisha published different things.
00:14:55.600 --> 00:15:00.159
Uh and and um they write there, they acknowledge this.
00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:04.879
A lot of, a lot of, there's a lot of literature that acknowledges the steer, but I didn't see anybody address the stera.
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:13.200
Um, and they write there that Rameisha told the author that that he mattered it, he acknowledges the sthira.
00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:17.919
He acknowledges that Yaradehi Lakbase he says one way and Yardeihi Likimal, he's Machmeh says the other way.
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.559
And he says that the reason for his shift is because he started trusting doctors less.
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:28.960
And when doctors would say that, oh yeah, it's gonna be successful, the odds are successful, Mr Shakram, he says, they were lying.
00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:33.519
Remaicha clearly, clearly, according to this report, got burnt in between the two of that.
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.720
Now, again, I can't argue on Talmud and Raisha, that's what he said, that's great.
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:41.279
It's just very difficult for me to accept because it's not the different conclusion, it's different lumbdas.
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:47.600
Remisha he goes to the lumdas there, the same suya, sugya navadazara, and it comes out in a different place in lumdes.
00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:49.600
And I it's so it's very difficult for me to say it.
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:56.240
But at the same time, it also kind of acknowledges or addresses like why Remisha was so machine himself to Rukhaimizer.
00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.639
Because maybe in Lumdas he Taka was masking.
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:01.440
He just he just he felt burnt by the doctor.
00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:02.399
The doctors lied to him.
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:06.080
He didn't want to publish a, you know, in this second Shuba, he didn't want to publish a Heter.
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:10.080
And therefore he, you know, he said, okay, listen, Rachimaizer says I'll rely on Rhachimiser.
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:18.399
Then the funniest thing is at the end of this paragraph of Reserve's Maisha, they write in that Romisha said that he would only trust uh, this is after Ramash said I was Chizer because the doctor's lying to me.
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:23.120
He says Ramaisha would only trust the doctors if they said 40% chance of success or more.
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.720
40% is not like the second chuva, it's like the first chuva.
00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.840
So the the athos itself is really difficult to understand.
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:40.639
You say Ramaisha was Chaizer from the first to the second, but then the 40% number comes to the first, unless you say, listen, Ramaisha was being, you know, was saying, like, okay, like Rokhai Maizer, but at least it has to be a reasonable number, 40% number.
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:41.120
Okay.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:41.679
Fine.
00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:43.840
Now, keep going in the chhuva.
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:44.639
Yeah.
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:49.120
Um, now, assuming it's mutter, we have to address a very fundamental question.
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:49.919
What is Khaisha?
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:50.879
What is Khaisha?
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:51.279
Right?
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:57.279
So the Achiazr says it's obvious there's no distinction between one day or two days, a few months, right?
00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:03.840
And therefore, the the Rub Khaimaj was dealing with a case of six months, and he says it's still Chaisha, still Khaisha, even six months, right?
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:07.599
But the Shah you'll ask, it acknowledges the question is a valid question.
00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:10.400
If six months is still Chaisha, then where's the line?
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:10.640
Right?
00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:16.960
And Major doesn't say it this way, but you know, no, we don't like to we don't like to think about it, but everything isha, right?
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:23.759
You could be cured from a disease when you're when you're four years old and live a healthy life till 100, but it's still temporary, he's still only got 96 years, right?
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:25.039
So everything, where's the line?
00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.839
When does something become Haisha for Khaimaj is willing to go up to six months?
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.599
Cesar Mesh, very intuitive art.
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:36.640
He says that if someone is sick and without a procedure, he will continue to get worse until he eventually dies.
00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:37.839
That's Haisha.
00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:41.839
Whether he'll die tomorrow, next week, six months, that's immaterial.
00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.599
The point is that this disease is going to kill him, right?
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:50.240
And uh um, Cesar Mesh, with this logic, it can even be more than six months.
00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:51.279
You can be more than six months.
00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:52.880
Is that logical basin something?
00:17:53.200 --> 00:18:00.960
It's logic, it's a sephara, it's quotes Rashid, but who can you say, but it's not a right, it's just you know, using the idea of uh of diseases progressively getting worse.
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:08.400
Now, Roishus points out, he says that in order to be allowed to obtain the operation, even in the world of Rachimizer, avowed there has to be a possibility that he gets better.
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:09.839
What does get better mean?
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.640
Now, of course, if the guy's gonna be back to himself, great, wonderful.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:15.200
The reality is that's not usually how it works, Rachel says.
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:22.559
Even if the person is not gonna be fully back to himself, but he's gonna have to, you know, take medication potentially for the rest of his life, he's gonna have to monitor his diet and all those things.
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.039
If he's cured from his disease, he's cured from the disease.
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:26.000
That's that's still fine.
00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:27.920
That's considered an operation as current from disease.
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:33.359
But the point is, if the operation will just extend his life expectancy, he's gonna have this disease, a chronic disease, he's gonna have it.
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:39.279
If without the operation, he'll live a year, uh, with the operation, he'll live three years with the same disease, and the same disease is gonna kill him, you have no head there.
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:41.599
You have no head through to put yourself in a risk of dying.
00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.920
I mean, of course, you know, um uh if that's not the you know, if he's not, there's no risk of death.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:48.160
But don't cure it.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:49.279
Fault progression.
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:56.000
It's these things are very there's a lot of literature on this, late literature because of the yeah, yeah, it's these are very, very tough questions.
00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.119
Obviously, everyone should ask a rough before uh coming to a stock.
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:06.640
Um now Raj says, what if you have what if you have so much says, okay, now let's say you have a case where a guy has a disease he's gonna die from, but he can live with a number of years.
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.119
So six months, but let's say it's five years.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:17.839
Like even though Ramisha just got off saying there's no number, there has to be something where it's you know, you know, so Risha says, it's different he says six months.
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:20.480
So I'll take the Achiez six months and I'll raise him to a year.
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.279
A year, because in Halakha, there's really no difference between six months and a year.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.480
But more than a year, Ramisha says, I don't know.
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:31.279
He and he and he and he hints at kind of what the Messier's Mysha says to he starts not trusting the doctors.
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:33.839
More than a year, you're gonna die from this disease in two years.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.319
Really?
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:34.799
Really?
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:44.559
So this is right, Rebbe Rebbe JD Bleich has a piece on this and uh and uh on this sugia, and he he did deals with a case of like a leukemia surgery, which is like 13 months or something like that.
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:47.279
And and and and JD Black, I think, makes it a compelling case.
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:48.799
I think Remisha should be masking 30.
00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:57.599
Even though we said a year, when we're dealing with a very clear disease with a clear timeline, and and it's 13 months, and he this is what I thought this time, well, just wait, wait a month, right?
00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:58.559
And then get the surgery then.
00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:00.240
It's no, because it just makes it worse.
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:01.440
You need to get the surgery as soon as possible.
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.359
And Lakhar is ever passion, I think.
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.440
That even Remote says the line of 12 months, it's not a hard 12 months.
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:13.039
It's a certain hashka to say that if a doctor says you could this disease will kill you in four years, yeah, I don't know about that.
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:14.160
Let's let's wait this out.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.480
But again, if you if you could get a a non-life-threatening surgery, it's a whole different discussion.
00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:19.920
But talking about a life-threatening surgery.
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.400
Okay, now every surgery has that risk.
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:24.640
Right, but that's recluded in rapay rapine.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.160
That you're allowed to take a level of risk.
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:28.880
Yeah, non-mission.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:29.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:31.839
I mean, ask or of, but yes.
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.880
Um now, so we've addressed the question that you're allowed to.
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:35.920
What about is there a heav?
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:37.279
Do you have to get the surgery?
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:38.480
Does the person have a choice?
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:43.119
So the Shayel argues that the Lashad Nogomara and the Piscom is misrappin', you're gonna get healed.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:43.759
Sounds like an option.
00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:45.440
And Remisha's masking to that Dio.
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:48.400
Yeah, but he remisha throws in a line that frustrates me.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:49.599
He doesn't elaborate.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:55.839
He just says, if the odds are, if there's a right that the surgery is going to be successful, then we have a riv and the stomach you're required.
00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:01.440
He doesn't really elaborate why, but he does elaborate on his concept that there's this idea that you have the option.
00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:05.519
That if it's a dovrarashakal, if it's a 50-50 chance, where Ramisha, even Romisha's not there.
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:06.319
Forget what Rhaim is there.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:08.559
50-50 chance, Romisha's not says you have the option.
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:09.519
And what's his raya?
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:10.720
How much time do we have?
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:12.160
Okay, we'll go make it quick.
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:13.839
The raya is because where do we know?
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.599
The one that says the Khaisha by Hashina.
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:16.079
What's the raya?
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:27.519
The raya is from the our boy mitzuray, and the four mitzurayim were in the Machni Israel, they were thrown out of Machni Yisral, they were in the middle of a hunger because our Ram had laid siege on them, and they say, We're gonna die anyway, right?
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:28.480
We're gonna die anyway.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:29.599
Let's go invade our Ram.
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:30.319
If we get food, great.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:33.440
We take our shot, Mamash, Khaishah.
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.240
Same, the same khaj.
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.640
Says the mysha, Bam Kasha, who are these four people?
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:38.400
Gechazi, bottom.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:39.039
You know what Gehazi is?
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.519
Ignore it says, Khaliesh, with a few exceptions.
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:43.039
You know one of the exceptions is Kechazi.
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:44.559
We're bringing a rayah from Gechazi.
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:49.039
Says a Meshah, uh, uh, an amazing, amazing bird that only myself should probably get away with saying.
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:52.960
He says that the bird is the gnar is not saying we learn from Gechazi what the halach is.
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.599
No, the halach is how much do we value human life?
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:57.680
It's totally in you, it's subject, it's subjective.
00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.920
It's totally in what human beings decide is valuable.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.240
Now, obviously, you can be this can be a very, very dangerous line.
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:04.480
You cannot misuse this to say other things.
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:10.400
But when it comes to the question of the khayisha, the Tiruh gives us the license to figure out as a society what's valuable and what's not.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.799
And we're bringing a riah from Gechhazi Yubana the Al-Khaisha.
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.599
That we're willing to risk, yeah, we're gonna die in two days from hunger.
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.680
We might as well go in Ta'ram, and we'll get worst case, we'll get killed and we'll lose two days of Khaisha alayhi khashina.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:20.880
That's what we're bringing a rayah to.
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:28.160
But now that Ramasha's machine, this subjective role that we play in Allah, so the same thing when you have a 50-50 surgery, and Ray says, No problem.
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:31.119
I have no problem deferring to the patient and saying, if you want, you can.
00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:35.359
Now, usually a person has a duty to keep himself healthy and to get whatever operations he need to live.
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:39.680
But in such a case where there's a chance he might die, it's a 50-50 chance, and right says you have the right to decide yes or no.
00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:43.519
And Ramay says, listen, we know that people have different, you know, some people he says by fighting financially.
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:46.400
Some people are more take aggressive risks, some people are more conservative, right?
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:47.599
Same thing, same thing with life.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:49.359
Person has there's a lot of flexibility.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:50.880
You're a lawyer, you're very conservative.
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:51.519
Yeah?
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:54.400
Um uh okay, fine.
00:22:54.640 --> 00:23:01.759
But Risha says, in this particular case, there is an issue because the shall said that the doctors told the patient that he's actually not necessarily gonna die.
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.640
If he just stays in bed the rest of his life, he'll be fine.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.480
And you're rolling your eyes, but says Ramaisha, I don't I don't even understand the Shylaw.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.119
This guy's not in mortal danger, he should stay in bed.
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:16.400
He says, We have no potential, there's no heter to potentially carry yourself because you want to walk to the supermarket.
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.319
He hasn't used the word supermarket, he's more sensitive than that.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:19.519
But right, that's what it comes down to.
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:20.480
No, stay in bed.
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:25.039
He says, You wonder what would have been a better shylah if you would have said, I have a non-life-threatening surgery.
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.920
Can a person get a non-life-threatening surgery so he can walk again?
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:29.759
Or do you say there's a problem with Khavala?
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:30.799
That would be a good shylain.
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:33.119
Now, remember she says, Don't worry, that's mutter, right?
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.359
I in the truva that we did on plastic surgery, same khajman, dark nietzayan, it's fine.
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:38.640
It's not dark nitzain, it's fine.
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:40.880
But if that's a good shyin, this is not a good shylain.
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:41.519
Yeah?
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:48.079
Now, which doctor do you have to use a uh so that the the achiez are quotes from the Yemish Kham that you should use a non-Jewish doctor?
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.839
Yeah, you should use a non-Jewish doctor because it's Khashavate Sirtzakh if this operation goes wrong.
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.880
Khaimiser says, and Remisha agrees with Khai Miser, nechtesi.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:56.720
If it's mutter for you, it's mutter for the doctor.
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.319
Remember the Shaziakas cases where the guy was giving himself the treatment to throw up the food.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:05.200
And there's an issue of like Sirtzah on yourself, doesn't matter if it's mutter is mutter, doesn't matter, it doesn't matter which doctor, which doctor.
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:07.759
And therefore, that uh that concludes the discussion.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:13.680
And again, just to summarize, Remisha himself is like the Lahachmir, if the odds are that the operation will fail.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:16.000
But if it's 50-50, he's makeal.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:27.759
However, he ultimately defers to Rakhaimiser, which is like Ramoshin, his earlier truva, which he does not mention in this particular tuva, but there's a few caveats, it must be a situation where a the surgery will make him better, it won't just prolong his life expectancy.
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:30.720
B, if he doesn't get the surgery, he's going to die within the year.
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.599
And C has to be he's actually gonna die, not just be stuck in bed.
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:40.400
There's no Khiev to get the surgery, there's an option to get the surgery if you want to, and no difference of using a Jewish or non Jewish doctor.
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:46.400
Adkan the rest of the chuva is about a totally different side topic where it goes after the achiez are about killing a tray, but nothing to do with the actual Shaila.
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So we could end the chair here.
