Jay Menashe: Most events are forgettable, not because the people running them don't care, but because they're optimizing for logistics instead of memory. I'm Jay Minosh, Senior Director of Strategy and Growth at Exhibitus, and this is Event Experience Experts. Every episode I sit down with the creatives, strategists, and senior leaders who are raising the bar on what live brand experiences can actually do. If you're done accepting forgettable, you're in the right place. My guest today has been inside more exhibit hall than almost anyone I've ever had on this show. Robyn Davis is the founder of WINH, When I Need Help, and her entire business runs on a strange but smart idea. Show organizers pay her to train exhibitors because an exhibitor who gets it right is good for everyone on the floor. She's CEM faculty, a two time national award winner for exhibitor education, and the author of Exhibit Smarter, a step-by-step guide to trade show success. If you've ever wondered why some booths convert and most don't, She spent her entire career studying exactly that gap. Welcome to the show, Miss Robyn.
Robyn Davis: Great to see you, Jay. Thanks for having me.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, absolutely. so before I even jump into the questions, you know, I want to start just talking about your business model because from where I sit, it's pretty backwards from everything I've ever done. You know, most of the guests we even have on the show are paid by the exhibitors, you know, the brand, the agency, the booth builder. You're paid by the people running the show to basically make the people paying for the booth better at their jobs, which is amazing, but to strange incentive structure, you know, it's like a little bit backwards from what I'm used to. So before we get into the book, before we get into the questions, you know, what does that arrangement let you say to an exhibitor that a paid vendor would never say?
Robyn Davis: Yeah, I like that we're starting at the beginning. one, because we've known each other long enough that my company was back when I used to work in Exhibitor Booth, when it was called When I Need Help, W I N H. Now we've switched over to Exhibitors Win because we empower exhibitors to win at trade shows. But most of what we're doing through these organizers is they need exhibitors to be successful. They need them to have a great experience so that they want to come back and continue having this successful experience in the future. They tell their friends it's more positive that way. When I work through the organizer instead of directly through the exhibitors, I get to make a much bigger impact with a lot less paperwork. And so some of the things that that helps me with is on I get to see more of what the organizer sees. I get to see their show data. I get to see their benefits that they have. I get to hear about new things that are coming out before the exhibitors know. Now there's a lot of process involved in what we're allowed to say when. But I don't work with organizers who don't let me be honest with the exhibitors. That's very important to me. So making sure they know what's available to them, what isn't, and how they can maximize their opportunity regardless of their budget or their timeline or their availability, any of those challenges they might encounter, it's just to help get them on the same side as the organizer and to show the organizer really does care about their success.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, listen, their success is everybody's success. If your exhibitor is successful at the show, they're gonna spend more on sponsorships, they're gonna have a bigger space. So it's like it makes a lot of sense. And I'm surprised there aren't more people that it's like, hey, let's do I mean, for your sake, I hope that stays this is Robyn's Lane, everybody else get out of the way. But it's so smart to partner up with them because, you know, listen, I'm sure there's a lot of bad press that goes to the organizers and to general contractors. So to have someone that's an ally to help. Hey, we're here to prove the value of your investment. I want to make sure you're being smarter and I can do that step by step, whether you've been doing this for six months or you've been doing this for twenty years. Like I think it's just such a great cause that what you're doing.
Robyn Davis: Definitely. I see myself as a bridge between the organizer and the exhibitor. I know there's a lot of misunderstandings on both sides, but one of the things I see a lot is that not only do they both care about the other sides, like organizers want exhibitors to be successful for some of the selfish reasons we've talked about before, but also because it benefits their community. And exhibitors want the organizer to be successful because otherwise, why would they keep coming back to the trade show? They need it to be a thriving community, and that's how we make that happen. So those are some of the things that I think are really valuable in what we're doing, but also they have a lot more in common than they think. So organizers are on shoestring budgets, overworked, lots of stressful time commitments and things like that, just like exhibitors are. So I think when someone like me can be involved with the process, then it's easier for everyone to see the other side and kind of meet in the middle on a lot of things that otherwise they wouldn't.
Jay Menashe: Even the way you just framed it there, it changes my perspective on how I think about it. It's like, yeah, you know, I don't really think about organizers' budgets and frankly I don't care most of the time because it's not what I'm here to support. But you know, even think it's like, well, yeah, they're struggling too. No wonder I don't get responses for three and a half weeks, if ever, from certain organizers, 'cause it's like, my God, I have an inbox of a thousand exhibitors sending me a thousand emails. So it's like, yeah, you know, my personal inbox probably would make them feel better 'cause I basically ignore that these days. But no, it's a good point of view to have and I think my boss says this very often. It's like just think about it all comes from positive intentions. Nobody's out here to like get you or make you look bad or good, you just gave me a hundred thousand dollars. Ha ha ha, I'm gonna take that to the bank and give you nothing for it. So maybe.
Robyn Davis: So Yeah, it's in everyone's best interest.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, no, that for sure. So, you know, I touched on this in the open. You've been to I was about to say millions of trade shows, but let's say thousands of trade shows is most likely an accurate number. You know, what's a belief that you hold about how companies get ready for a show that most people in this industry would push back on?
Robyn Davis: I think one of the things that is promoted a lot is that exhibitors should be promoting themselves a lot, everywhere, all the time, as much as they can. And in my opinion, too much promotion is actually a bad thing. Now stay with me. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't communicate about your participation in a trade show. What I am trying to say is that when you do communicate, it should be value-driven. So instead of here's my booth number, here's what we're selling, come to my booth, come buy our stuff, it should be You are the audience that is coming to the show. How can we serve you? How can we help you find what you need? And really adjusting your language and also the content that you're sharing so that it can be more valuable to the attendees. And so they want to come see you. If you build that relationship and prove that value early on, then you won't have to promote yourself, especially as we get closer to the show like everyone else is. You'll be able to just really have people looking forward to seeing you and share helpful reminders and look forward to the show together.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, you see too often it's like you'll get an email or a social post come by booth three seventeen and that's the end of the post and there's nothing to it and even like language of the show and we'll talk about messaging at shows later, but it's like can you tell me why I should come to the space and what problem it solves for me? And you know, beyond like, yeah, you're gonna be there, great. Like I we before we started recording, I was telling you about the conference I was at this week. I got at least five different emails like, Hey, my CRO is gonna be at the show, he'd love to have coffee with you. It's like I don't even know what your company does, let alone why I would meet with a CRO and schedule time, which is a jam packed conference schedule in the first place. it's just wild to me that people don't put more emphasis on Yeah, I gotta get you there. How am I gonna do it? And why does it matter to you? And that's always the key is why does it matter to you?
Robyn Davis: Yeah, I think a lot of times I'm correcting exhibitors because they're saying why they want you to visit. Of course, exhibitors want attendees to visit them, but putting it on the other shoe, noticing that attendees also can't visit all of the exhibitors, it's literally impossible at most of the trade shows I support to get to every single exhibiting company in the time available. And so they have to make choices. That doesn't include the sessions, that doesn't include time for lunch or time to check a text message or tie your shoe. there's just so much pressure on attendees. to figure out how they're gonna allocate their time as well. And so exhibitors really have to do more to establish that relationship, build some credibility, give them a real good motivation for themselves rather than just from the exhibitor side.
Jay Menashe: Do you ever get pushback on that from like one of your clients? Not I shouldn't say your one of your clients, one of the exhibitors that's like, Well, this is the way we've always done it. Like how do you talk to them about like changing their style from, hey, we've been doing this for fifteen years, it works well enough. We get so many lead scans.
Robyn Davis: So a lot of the exhibitors that I work with, almost everything I do is different from how they've always done it. I talk a lot about traditions and how I get that our industry is doing things this way. And I generally say, if you love it, if it's working for you, go ahead and keep doing it, but I know you're missing your potential because I see it in the other exhibitors. And so usually we'll work together, they'll listen, there'll be like this light bulb moment. If you're in an in-person class, I can see when it changes that the people will come in with all the tenure and they'll sit in the back of the room like With their arms crossed and they'll look like they don't even are engaged in the program at all. And then at some point, I'll say something and they'll start to sit a little bit forward and they'll realize, like, my gosh, we're not doing any of that. We're not having those results. I didn't know that there's 12 different ways that I can get value out of a trade show. I only knew about two. And so when they start to hear some of that, it comes to a point of like, okay, maybe we should give this a shot. And so really it tends to be more about how do we justify that internally. rather than how do I get the person in front of me on board? Because frankly, if they don't want to try, then there are plenty of other exhibitors who do. And so I don't need to force anyone to do trade shows differently. Like if you're happy with what you're doing, go for it. But to help them internally, a lot of times we'll be able to point to the show is endorsing this, my experience, my other accolades and things that, you know, maybe she knows what she's talking about. Maybe all of these examples could work for us too. Why don't we just give it a shot this year? Let's try something small and see if it works and then progress. So I don't try to convince them if they're really that against it. I I know it won't work, but that's you know, that's up to them.
Jay Menashe: Well, believe it or not, that's the ultimate sales technique. And I know you're not a salesperson at at heart, but we all are, and you don't need to convince people. It's yeah, put the proof out there and it's like, just test it out. Like, what's the worst that can happen? You know, say, you know, it's something we talk about in our teams and I think throughout my career, it's like, hey, listen, spend ninety and actually I'll take a step back. Have you read the book Unreasonable Hospitality? And I referenced this book pretty much on every podcast. So he had the ninety five five rule and that it's like, listen, spend ninety five percent of your budget. To the penny, know exactly where it's going, why it's going there, and all that. But it's like, let's use that five percent. And you know, he says spend it foolishly. That's not obviously what he means if you read the context of it. But it's like do something different and see how it works. And then you can test and iterate and and yeah, no, it's like people fall so into these traps of like you said it, tradition, where it's like, we don't have time to to test this out, we just gotta keep going. Because listen, the organizers are strapped with resources, the agencies are strapped with resources. Brands are struck with resources, so it's like we just need to get this done. And that's where I think people fall into those traps for sure.
Robyn Davis: Yeah, it's especially challenging when you have multiple shows in a row. I know some of the exhibitors you work with, the ones that hire the agencies, they may have hundreds of trade shows in a year. And it may be one person who's controlling it and or organizing it. And then a lot of their team members, they don't even get to see how the shows turn out. And so being able to take a step back and look at that strategic big picture thinking and be able to implement just something small, test it on a handful of shows and compare to the rest. I think it's actually easier to justify things at scale like that because you can see the changes so much more quickly. You'll be able to tell the difference between what you're doing here versus what you're doing there. Now in the real world for smaller companies, those that aren't participating as often, you don't have to just change one thing a year and hope that that works out. One of the things I recommend is using your long-term efforts to support that. So if we're going to try a different style or phrasing, for example, super tiny thing to do in an email. Where you're starting with you focused language. So instead of join us at X trade show, it's you're invited to thing you're interested in. And if you start practicing that in the rest of your year, then by the time you get to your trade show, you'll already have the data to prove that that style is working. And then you can just continue incorporating more of the trade show specific efforts.
Jay Menashe: Really love that point. It doesn't have to be tested at a trade show or event to work at a trade show or event. That is a really smart point. And that'll be definitely one of the takeaways from the from the podcast today. So I want to get into the book a little bit. You know, the the exhibit smarter, it's built on a step by step guide, which means obviously you have to decide which that first step is. Beyond the first step, what's one step in the sequence that exhibitors skip most? And what does skipping it cost really, you know, when they're standing there on the show floor?
Robyn Davis: So one of the big areas that I challenge exhibitors on when we get started is knowing their audience segment. So a lot of exhibitors know generally my audience is at this trade show, that's why we're going, obviously, but they don't know specifically within that audience segment of the attendees at this trade show which ones are the most relevant to them. And so if a brand were to look at their show's website, usually there's data from previous years where you can see by job title, by industry segment. by location, by company size. There's lots of different data available that lots of times exhibitors will look at the first time they exhibit, but then maybe won't think about it as much after that, which is a whole nother challenge in and of itself. But identifying your specific segment of the overall audience is a step that exhibitors often skip. And I think they shouldn't, because if you don't focus in and you just try to appeal to everyone, even if it's just everyone within this industry, it's going to be a lot harder to tailor your messaging so that it actually resonates with the people that you're trying to connect with. And so when you get on site, not only will you not have made those deep connections in advance, but also your booth design probably isn't clear enough that people will know whether or not they should stop. Your conversation in person with people as you're trying to draw them into your booth won't be as efficient because you'll have to start with, okay, well wait a minute, within this whole section, What do you do? Who are you? How does this work? Before you can get to like, is this appropriate for you or not? And so if you can just identify that up front, it saves so much time and hassle.
Jay Menashe: Yes, audience segmentation is a very common theme. You know, I was at this conference, we're hearing from senior leaders and that's like a regular topic is like you have to segment the audience. You it's the same with thing with like after an event is done. You're gonna have a list of a hundred and fifty leads, hopefully, maybe more, maybe less, but it's like they don't all need the same attention. And it's the same with all the exhibitors of the show. I really love that point about the segmentation and looking on the website because it is spelled out. And I think we're all natural to fall into that issue of Well, I did it once, so it obviously is the same forever.
Robyn Davis: No, and the shows change. It's just like sharks. Like you're always swimming, your show is always changing. Plus you are always changing. Your company too. You have new products and services that may appeal to different segments of the audience differently. And I like how you mentioned for follow up too, it's not just about knowing who you want to meet, which is that big picture question that I was talking about, but once you meet them in your booth and then you get ready for follow up, you needed to have taken good notes about them so that then you can segment your follow-up efforts too. And so I like to qualify people. I use a hot to not scale. You can call it ABC, whatever you want, but your hot leads are going to get more touch points after a show than your cool or not leads. And they're going to get different kinds of touch points. But if you didn't take good notes, if you don't know your audience well enough to categorize them properly, then you can't do any of that. It's kind of like you're starting over after the show.
Jay Menashe: Yeah. and this might be different for every show. Do you have is there like a a an average percentage of an audience that is likely gonna be your audience?
Robyn Davis: It varies from show to show and by type of show. So whether it's a horizontal industry, a vertical industry, a hybrid industry, there's a lot of things. And there is a section in the book that talks about all of those different categorizations. But a lot of people will tell me it's a hundred percent, it's ninety percent, like I know this is our audience. And so we walk that back. It's rarely even eighty percent of the show. I generally see more in like the thirty percent range, fifteen percent range, depending on the show itself. Every so often you'll see someone who has a pretty high percentage, but then you have an opportunity to be more specific within that segment as to what your goals are and how you match a piece of the overall segment to you. There's no trade show that I'm aware of where every single audience member is the exact same type of company, the exact same role, the exact same buying power, all of the different things that you might consider. Attendees are all different and so you should be able to segment down to a more specific focus, even though there's not like a really rule of thumb for show to show.
Jay Menashe: Well, and it also helps with realistic goal setting. If you think you're gonna get ninety percent of the show as your audience, let's say it's realistically in that fifteen to thirty percent, which I think you very accurate on that. What is it, ten percent of that fifteen to thirty percent are actually gonna stop by into your space? So it's like that's where goals come from. It's like, well, we need this many people to come in and this many people will be cur turned into qualified leads and then qualified opportunities. Cause yeah, and I think that's a differentiation people need to think about. Every lead is not a qualified lead. And nobody, you know, if you're creating this follow-up list and you are segmenting that as well, it's like salespeople want qualified leads. They don't just want a name and an email and a company name because it's like, I'm so excited. This, you know, Fortune 50 company came into our space. It's like, yeah, they came in because we were giving away a a neato squishy that their kid wanted and it was game over after that.
Robyn Davis: Yeah, for sure. I have a whole other thoughts and feelings about the concept of attractions. I call it the Robyn Davis test, which is like if I, Robyn Davis, want whatever it is you're giving away, it's probably not the right fit because I can't buy anything from you. So I can't tell you how many lines I've stood in to get toy trucks for my nieces and nephews, or I have a big screen TV in the other room that I won at a trade show because I was standing in a booth and they were doing a giveaway. I'm sure that marketing company Like that marketing budget was not supposed to go to someone like me. But if you're not paying attention, then you don't know that. And when you're thinking about the segmentation and knowing your audience on the show floor, it also helps when you're standing in your booth. It's not just for this qualifying and follow-up process, but if you're as a staffer standing in the booth and watching people walk by and you're asking them, I recommend an opening question, which I think we're gonna talk about a little bit later. But when you walk by and people are answering no. you need to know that, well, there's only supposed to be three out of ten anyway. So if you're getting all of these nos, that's appropriate. That's right. You're doing a good job to get down to the right number you should talk to. And then we can go from there. So I think it helps to manage everyone's expectations when you have that figured out in advance.
Jay Menashe: Yeah. And listen, the law of averages is a law for a reason. So, let let's remember that when we're planning these goals. And it's like, yeah, no, I think I love that point. And yes, that is exactly the next question I was going to ask. so your booth staff, they are certain shows where it's like you literally come within three feet of them. They're I need to scan your badge I'm like, I can't tell you how many people I've I'm like, please just don't scan my badge. You are my lead. I am not your lead. But obviously this should be a conversation. They should ask questions, they should turn this into a relationship. Stop. treating your audience members like targets and actually treating them like guests, what would you say is one question you'd recommend? And obviously this will vary by industry, so we're gonna go a little bit generic, but what's one question that turns a scan into more of a conversation?
Robyn Davis: So let me take a step back from that and say it's more a type of question rather than a particular question itself. a lot of people will start with an open-ended question like how are you enjoying the show? Or even a statement like nice shoes or something like that. Have you heard about our company? and what are you interested in this and that sort of thing? So they try and make it really broad to help people want to chat with you. But at trade shows, people are so focused they don't have time to chat. And so I suggest flipping it. Start with a closed-ended question. Are you looking for, have you considered, are you interested in whatever it is that you do or offer? And then that way the attendee can self-select. And so I don't like to scan people until you get past that first question. They say yes. You may tell them a sentence, maybe two max. I don't like to say more than two sentences about my company before I learn about theirs. But that's where you can start. And then you scan their badge. great, can I take notes while you talk? Do you mind if I scan this real quick? And then you can go through the rest of your questions, listen, guide the conversation with more specific open-ended questions rather than this general, tell me what you're looking for, tell me what you know about us. we want to make sure that they're in the right place first and foremost, and then you're doing more listening than talking, and that should help to make it a little more productive of a conversation.
Jay Menashe: Hm. Yes, the the listening part. That that's the important part. You y is there any this isn't this is not a gotcha question, but this is a side question that I wasn't gonna ask. When you have a booth staff there, are there titles you may recommend to be there versus others? You know, obviously salespeople is like, no, we need all the salespeople. How do you feel about that? Like who do you think should be staffing a booth, most likely?
Robyn Davis: It depends on your goals for the show. I think you need representation to cover the types of people your attendees are going to want to meet if you want your attendees to support you in your goals. So for example, sales may be a good fit, but a product developer or an engineer may be an even better fit if people are trying to understand how the product works or where it's going to fail before they agree to get into a sales conversation. They may want to talk to an executive if they are For example, an enterprise level account. And so they want to make sure that your company is going to pay attention to them, that they'll get the service they need, and that you're used to handling these types of things. They want to make sure they understand that piece. On the other side of that, you may also have specific goals, like maybe you're doing some hiring at your show or working to progress your hiring process, in which case you'd want someone from HR to be there. Or maybe you want to create some content and save your company some time and effort throughout the rest of the year by Collecting these ideas and putting them together in a way that you can repackage and share for the rest of the year. And so you'd want someone on your content team, whether that's marketing or digital or whoever it may be, just depending on your company structure. But matching the audience's interests and your company goals is where it becomes really interesting as to who you'd include on your team. Regardless of who you choose, though, I will say training is super important. So never bring someone just because they have a good title. Bring them because they're willing to work, they're trained properly, and they fit the need on either or both of those sides.
Jay Menashe: You are making segues to follow-up questions much easier than I would say most of my guests do. Because I was gonna ask you about training next, because I think it's underdone to say the least. You know, your booth design gets months and a a pretty hefty budget to to obviously put that together, build it out. The staff training gets 30 minutes the day the show is opening, maybe. If it gets scheduled at all, you know, when you have only that afternoon, you know, what do you cut? what do you refuse to cut? And you know, no matter what is happening, how much time you have, it's like we need to talk about these few points.
Robyn Davis: So I hate that companies don't prioritize and value training for their team. Once you get on site, your staff is your representation. It doesn't matter what else you did before that, they're the ones who are going to dictate your reputation and results. And so they deserve your attention in order to help them do their best work. That's a non negotiable for me overall. Like we make time for training. But Given the circumstances you've provided and in the spirit of helping anyone who may be in this situation that is beyond their control, I would cut the logistics reminders. What color shirt do you wear on what day? What time do you show up? Those can be sent in an email, or nowadays a text message is probably more appropriate, a group Slack, something like that. we don't need to spend time in person doing that. the other thing that I would cut is the detailed company history. I think a lot of times exhibitors will spend too much time going into depth on topics that they don't need to discuss in the booth. We need to know exactly what's relevant to the audience to help them get closer to their goals. And that there are some things that you can pick up as you go on site. If you start getting some interesting questions in your debrief at the end of each show day, bring those up in front of your teammates so that everyone has the correct information moving forward. Also, if you're a new staffer and you haven't received the pre-training and you weren't able to catch as much as you wanted in this mini training. I call it a refresher training on site, but when you do that, shadow someone in the booth. Listen closely to what they're doing, even if you're not in their conversation, you can stand a couple steps away and just kind of like lean to where they are. Nobody will even notice you, but you'll hear how they're doing things and how they're saying things. So those are some of the things that I'd cut. As far as what I'm sorry.
Jay Menashe: No no no no go ahead, go ahead.
Robyn Davis: Keep going. I was just gonna say, as far what I should keep, I would suggest the onboarding, which is not part of that half hour that you've mentioned, but it would be separate one-on-one conversations. It can be about five minutes each. but this is where you set expectations with your team members. This is another one of those where you see everyone in the same room and the people who are more experienced feel like the rules don't apply to them. And so you have to have these one-on-one conversations. Otherwise, people won't show up to the booth, they won't be dressed appropriately, they won't have the appropriate goals. You won't know how you can help them, all of those things. So onboarding is a non-negotiable for me. The other thing that I would say, if you are down to that last 30 minutes, the show is opening, you've got to scramble to get done, do one round of practice for everyone. Take out the lead retrieval or your lead cards, however you're taking notes in the booth, scan one of your team members' badges. Take the notes of exactly what questions you were supposed to have been asking and see how it works so that you know that you're getting that information down properly.
Jay Menashe: That that little bit of like five minutes to go through the lead retrieval device, it's like, yeah, your entire show is gonna be resting on this stupid phone or your app within the phone. It's like, yeah, maybe you should try it out first and see how you fill it in and like how you push things forward. what I was gonna say and almost interrupt you was I have to give a shout out to the exhibitus marketing team, Kelsey specifically. The training they went through with a company that does this for a living is really impressive. Like, you know, they create the whole docket of like This is what the booth looks like. This is where everybody's gonna, you you're gonna stand in these zones and they the talking points, what's our theme? And I could say, like you talk about training and onboarding, like there are so many companies that don't do that at all. Forget about just for a show or an event, period. Like it's like, no, you're here, you you got it, right? You you can figure it out. So I think that's such an important point to emphasize like that onboarding portion and you know, use the tools. Teach them how to use the tools. And I think it goes such a long way.
Robyn Davis: Definitely. I love that your team prioritizes that. I see a lot in our industry in particular of the events companies that we want them to be a great example, but often there are some that are really great and some that are not so great. And so I think that's wonderful that your company is making that a priority so you can set an example within our industry.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, it's the old do as I say, not as I do. It's a very good it's a parenting philosophy I live by.
Robyn Davis: Yeah.
Jay Menashe: So we're up to the last question. I'm sure there'll be some some bonus questions as always. but if you could force every exhibitor to re redesign one thing about how they prepare for the show, obviously you know, the booth itself is a totally different conversation. But you know, what would it be about the preparation and what would you title that chapter of the book if you wrote the book again today? Please don't do that. You just got this one up.
Robyn Davis: No, I will not be rewriting the book anytime soon. When it started, it was over a hundred thousand words. And so we cut it down to about eighty-five thousand words in the end. So there were some other sections, there were some other topics that I really did want to include. now, fair warning, so there's no gotchas. I am not the best at naming things, so I'm gonna tell you the topics and then maybe you can help me come up with a name. But so One idea I had was that we should talk more about these different team members. And in particular, especially given my background in engineering, I thought we should talk more about how to incorporate engineers and product developers in your efforts and how to look at some of these other team members. I mentioned HR, I mentioned content, all of these other people, how can they support your participation more and better? And so I think that could be really great. We did pull out especially a lot of the content on executives. We got we kept that, but we put it in other chapters. So you'll see it kind of like as you're going through when you need to make decisions about things, how do you discuss that with an executive? and that sort of thing. The other one that I was thinking about a lot, and I was really sad to cut, is about how you handle the stress of being in this space and how you manage that on top of all of your other responsibilities. Now I I wouldn't go so far as to say trade shows are a traumatic experience, but there are the four F's of trauma response, fight, flight, fawn, and freeze. And I wanted to go through a little bit of those. And I have these really fun stories of like how you see that come out in people in a real life trade show experience so that as a leader you can manage when you see other people going through these challenging times. And then as yourself, you can recognize my gosh, okay, I need to handle this because I am in one of these states. and so I think something more on like the mental health and the management of that for trade show exhibitors is a crucial component that just unfortunately did not fit in this book.
Jay Menashe: I think we have a follow up book, don't we?
Robyn Davis: Maybe so. What would you call them?
Jay Menashe: What would I call those four stages of fight, flight?
Robyn Davis: Yeah.
Jay Menashe: I I don't know. I'm not good off the top of my head unless I'm making fun of somebody there. I can come in hot any time.
Robyn Davis: That's why we need editors.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, well that's for sure. No, I think that's but I think that's a really good point. I mean, the mental health side of events is a real thing and not even just for the people organizing and planning and producing, but when you're on site, there's never enough breaks built into the schedule, or usually any. It's like, you can have five minutes. You know, and I'll turn it back to the conference I was just at. It was end of quarter. This is a large tech and SaaS audience, and they had this event over end of quarter, which had to stress everybody out that day specifically. So I I would think, you know Honestly, it just a chapter focused on like how can you help your team be their best? And that's focusing on the mental health on site.
Robyn Davis: Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's really important. I try to talk about it when we can. There is a little bit on some of that kind of thing, but a lot of the big piece of it didn't fit. And there are a lot of other experts who focus on that exclusively as a part of their role. And so I'm hopeful that people who get this book will also pay attention to some of the other great resources within our industry.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, no, there are some really great mental health experts on LinkedIn posting all the time about especially event specific. So yes, you can find them pretty easily. I'm not gonna name all the names right now because I will inevitably leave somebody out and feel bad and then I'm just gonna not do that. So Well that kind of wraps us up for today. Is there where can everybody find you, first of all?
Robyn Davis: So I'm on LinkedIn most often, Robyn Davis, CPTD CEM That's how you find me. I'm the one with the initials, and my name is Robyn with a Y. And then my book is Exhibit Smarter, a step-by-step guide to trade show success. I love that you have it. it's just exhibitsmarter.com. It's available anywhere books are sold online.
Jay Menashe: And I highly recommend it. I've known Robyn for I'm gonna say close to at least ten years, probably longer than that because I'm old. but yeah, no, you've always been a like calm, sane, smart voice in this industry. And the engineering background makes a lot of sense for engineering the step by step process. So thank you so much for being here. Everybody look her up, everybody buy the book. It should be sold. You need it, there's no doubt about it.
Robyn Davis: Thank you, Jay. This was wonderful.
Jay Menashe: Thank you. If you walked away with one thing you'll use, we did our job today. Event Experience Experts drops every week. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and check us out on YouTube if you want to watch. I'm Jay Menashe see you next time.
Robyn Davis: Great to see you, Jay. Thanks for having me.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, absolutely. so before I even jump into the questions, you know, I want to start just talking about your business model because from where I sit, it's pretty backwards from everything I've ever done. You know, most of the guests we even have on the show are paid by the exhibitors, you know, the brand, the agency, the booth builder. You're paid by the people running the show to basically make the people paying for the booth better at their jobs, which is amazing, but to strange incentive structure, you know, it's like a little bit backwards from what I'm used to. So before we get into the book, before we get into the questions, you know, what does that arrangement let you say to an exhibitor that a paid vendor would never say?
Robyn Davis: Yeah, I like that we're starting at the beginning. one, because we've known each other long enough that my company was back when I used to work in Exhibitor Booth, when it was called When I Need Help, W I N H. Now we've switched over to Exhibitors Win because we empower exhibitors to win at trade shows. But most of what we're doing through these organizers is they need exhibitors to be successful. They need them to have a great experience so that they want to come back and continue having this successful experience in the future. They tell their friends it's more positive that way. When I work through the organizer instead of directly through the exhibitors, I get to make a much bigger impact with a lot less paperwork. And so some of the things that that helps me with is on I get to see more of what the organizer sees. I get to see their show data. I get to see their benefits that they have. I get to hear about new things that are coming out before the exhibitors know. Now there's a lot of process involved in what we're allowed to say when. But I don't work with organizers who don't let me be honest with the exhibitors. That's very important to me. So making sure they know what's available to them, what isn't, and how they can maximize their opportunity regardless of their budget or their timeline or their availability, any of those challenges they might encounter, it's just to help get them on the same side as the organizer and to show the organizer really does care about their success.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, listen, their success is everybody's success. If your exhibitor is successful at the show, they're gonna spend more on sponsorships, they're gonna have a bigger space. So it's like it makes a lot of sense. And I'm surprised there aren't more people that it's like, hey, let's do I mean, for your sake, I hope that stays this is Robyn's Lane, everybody else get out of the way. But it's so smart to partner up with them because, you know, listen, I'm sure there's a lot of bad press that goes to the organizers and to general contractors. So to have someone that's an ally to help. Hey, we're here to prove the value of your investment. I want to make sure you're being smarter and I can do that step by step, whether you've been doing this for six months or you've been doing this for twenty years. Like I think it's just such a great cause that what you're doing.
Robyn Davis: Definitely. I see myself as a bridge between the organizer and the exhibitor. I know there's a lot of misunderstandings on both sides, but one of the things I see a lot is that not only do they both care about the other sides, like organizers want exhibitors to be successful for some of the selfish reasons we've talked about before, but also because it benefits their community. And exhibitors want the organizer to be successful because otherwise, why would they keep coming back to the trade show? They need it to be a thriving community, and that's how we make that happen. So those are some of the things that I think are really valuable in what we're doing, but also they have a lot more in common than they think. So organizers are on shoestring budgets, overworked, lots of stressful time commitments and things like that, just like exhibitors are. So I think when someone like me can be involved with the process, then it's easier for everyone to see the other side and kind of meet in the middle on a lot of things that otherwise they wouldn't.
Jay Menashe: Even the way you just framed it there, it changes my perspective on how I think about it. It's like, yeah, you know, I don't really think about organizers' budgets and frankly I don't care most of the time because it's not what I'm here to support. But you know, even think it's like, well, yeah, they're struggling too. No wonder I don't get responses for three and a half weeks, if ever, from certain organizers, 'cause it's like, my God, I have an inbox of a thousand exhibitors sending me a thousand emails. So it's like, yeah, you know, my personal inbox probably would make them feel better 'cause I basically ignore that these days. But no, it's a good point of view to have and I think my boss says this very often. It's like just think about it all comes from positive intentions. Nobody's out here to like get you or make you look bad or good, you just gave me a hundred thousand dollars. Ha ha ha, I'm gonna take that to the bank and give you nothing for it. So maybe.
Robyn Davis: So Yeah, it's in everyone's best interest.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, no, that for sure. So, you know, I touched on this in the open. You've been to I was about to say millions of trade shows, but let's say thousands of trade shows is most likely an accurate number. You know, what's a belief that you hold about how companies get ready for a show that most people in this industry would push back on?
Robyn Davis: I think one of the things that is promoted a lot is that exhibitors should be promoting themselves a lot, everywhere, all the time, as much as they can. And in my opinion, too much promotion is actually a bad thing. Now stay with me. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't communicate about your participation in a trade show. What I am trying to say is that when you do communicate, it should be value-driven. So instead of here's my booth number, here's what we're selling, come to my booth, come buy our stuff, it should be You are the audience that is coming to the show. How can we serve you? How can we help you find what you need? And really adjusting your language and also the content that you're sharing so that it can be more valuable to the attendees. And so they want to come see you. If you build that relationship and prove that value early on, then you won't have to promote yourself, especially as we get closer to the show like everyone else is. You'll be able to just really have people looking forward to seeing you and share helpful reminders and look forward to the show together.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, you see too often it's like you'll get an email or a social post come by booth three seventeen and that's the end of the post and there's nothing to it and even like language of the show and we'll talk about messaging at shows later, but it's like can you tell me why I should come to the space and what problem it solves for me? And you know, beyond like, yeah, you're gonna be there, great. Like I we before we started recording, I was telling you about the conference I was at this week. I got at least five different emails like, Hey, my CRO is gonna be at the show, he'd love to have coffee with you. It's like I don't even know what your company does, let alone why I would meet with a CRO and schedule time, which is a jam packed conference schedule in the first place. it's just wild to me that people don't put more emphasis on Yeah, I gotta get you there. How am I gonna do it? And why does it matter to you? And that's always the key is why does it matter to you?
Robyn Davis: Yeah, I think a lot of times I'm correcting exhibitors because they're saying why they want you to visit. Of course, exhibitors want attendees to visit them, but putting it on the other shoe, noticing that attendees also can't visit all of the exhibitors, it's literally impossible at most of the trade shows I support to get to every single exhibiting company in the time available. And so they have to make choices. That doesn't include the sessions, that doesn't include time for lunch or time to check a text message or tie your shoe. there's just so much pressure on attendees. to figure out how they're gonna allocate their time as well. And so exhibitors really have to do more to establish that relationship, build some credibility, give them a real good motivation for themselves rather than just from the exhibitor side.
Jay Menashe: Do you ever get pushback on that from like one of your clients? Not I shouldn't say your one of your clients, one of the exhibitors that's like, Well, this is the way we've always done it. Like how do you talk to them about like changing their style from, hey, we've been doing this for fifteen years, it works well enough. We get so many lead scans.
Robyn Davis: So a lot of the exhibitors that I work with, almost everything I do is different from how they've always done it. I talk a lot about traditions and how I get that our industry is doing things this way. And I generally say, if you love it, if it's working for you, go ahead and keep doing it, but I know you're missing your potential because I see it in the other exhibitors. And so usually we'll work together, they'll listen, there'll be like this light bulb moment. If you're in an in-person class, I can see when it changes that the people will come in with all the tenure and they'll sit in the back of the room like With their arms crossed and they'll look like they don't even are engaged in the program at all. And then at some point, I'll say something and they'll start to sit a little bit forward and they'll realize, like, my gosh, we're not doing any of that. We're not having those results. I didn't know that there's 12 different ways that I can get value out of a trade show. I only knew about two. And so when they start to hear some of that, it comes to a point of like, okay, maybe we should give this a shot. And so really it tends to be more about how do we justify that internally. rather than how do I get the person in front of me on board? Because frankly, if they don't want to try, then there are plenty of other exhibitors who do. And so I don't need to force anyone to do trade shows differently. Like if you're happy with what you're doing, go for it. But to help them internally, a lot of times we'll be able to point to the show is endorsing this, my experience, my other accolades and things that, you know, maybe she knows what she's talking about. Maybe all of these examples could work for us too. Why don't we just give it a shot this year? Let's try something small and see if it works and then progress. So I don't try to convince them if they're really that against it. I I know it won't work, but that's you know, that's up to them.
Jay Menashe: Well, believe it or not, that's the ultimate sales technique. And I know you're not a salesperson at at heart, but we all are, and you don't need to convince people. It's yeah, put the proof out there and it's like, just test it out. Like, what's the worst that can happen? You know, say, you know, it's something we talk about in our teams and I think throughout my career, it's like, hey, listen, spend ninety and actually I'll take a step back. Have you read the book Unreasonable Hospitality? And I referenced this book pretty much on every podcast. So he had the ninety five five rule and that it's like, listen, spend ninety five percent of your budget. To the penny, know exactly where it's going, why it's going there, and all that. But it's like, let's use that five percent. And you know, he says spend it foolishly. That's not obviously what he means if you read the context of it. But it's like do something different and see how it works. And then you can test and iterate and and yeah, no, it's like people fall so into these traps of like you said it, tradition, where it's like, we don't have time to to test this out, we just gotta keep going. Because listen, the organizers are strapped with resources, the agencies are strapped with resources. Brands are struck with resources, so it's like we just need to get this done. And that's where I think people fall into those traps for sure.
Robyn Davis: Yeah, it's especially challenging when you have multiple shows in a row. I know some of the exhibitors you work with, the ones that hire the agencies, they may have hundreds of trade shows in a year. And it may be one person who's controlling it and or organizing it. And then a lot of their team members, they don't even get to see how the shows turn out. And so being able to take a step back and look at that strategic big picture thinking and be able to implement just something small, test it on a handful of shows and compare to the rest. I think it's actually easier to justify things at scale like that because you can see the changes so much more quickly. You'll be able to tell the difference between what you're doing here versus what you're doing there. Now in the real world for smaller companies, those that aren't participating as often, you don't have to just change one thing a year and hope that that works out. One of the things I recommend is using your long-term efforts to support that. So if we're going to try a different style or phrasing, for example, super tiny thing to do in an email. Where you're starting with you focused language. So instead of join us at X trade show, it's you're invited to thing you're interested in. And if you start practicing that in the rest of your year, then by the time you get to your trade show, you'll already have the data to prove that that style is working. And then you can just continue incorporating more of the trade show specific efforts.
Jay Menashe: Really love that point. It doesn't have to be tested at a trade show or event to work at a trade show or event. That is a really smart point. And that'll be definitely one of the takeaways from the from the podcast today. So I want to get into the book a little bit. You know, the the exhibit smarter, it's built on a step by step guide, which means obviously you have to decide which that first step is. Beyond the first step, what's one step in the sequence that exhibitors skip most? And what does skipping it cost really, you know, when they're standing there on the show floor?
Robyn Davis: So one of the big areas that I challenge exhibitors on when we get started is knowing their audience segment. So a lot of exhibitors know generally my audience is at this trade show, that's why we're going, obviously, but they don't know specifically within that audience segment of the attendees at this trade show which ones are the most relevant to them. And so if a brand were to look at their show's website, usually there's data from previous years where you can see by job title, by industry segment. by location, by company size. There's lots of different data available that lots of times exhibitors will look at the first time they exhibit, but then maybe won't think about it as much after that, which is a whole nother challenge in and of itself. But identifying your specific segment of the overall audience is a step that exhibitors often skip. And I think they shouldn't, because if you don't focus in and you just try to appeal to everyone, even if it's just everyone within this industry, it's going to be a lot harder to tailor your messaging so that it actually resonates with the people that you're trying to connect with. And so when you get on site, not only will you not have made those deep connections in advance, but also your booth design probably isn't clear enough that people will know whether or not they should stop. Your conversation in person with people as you're trying to draw them into your booth won't be as efficient because you'll have to start with, okay, well wait a minute, within this whole section, What do you do? Who are you? How does this work? Before you can get to like, is this appropriate for you or not? And so if you can just identify that up front, it saves so much time and hassle.
Jay Menashe: Yes, audience segmentation is a very common theme. You know, I was at this conference, we're hearing from senior leaders and that's like a regular topic is like you have to segment the audience. You it's the same with thing with like after an event is done. You're gonna have a list of a hundred and fifty leads, hopefully, maybe more, maybe less, but it's like they don't all need the same attention. And it's the same with all the exhibitors of the show. I really love that point about the segmentation and looking on the website because it is spelled out. And I think we're all natural to fall into that issue of Well, I did it once, so it obviously is the same forever.
Robyn Davis: No, and the shows change. It's just like sharks. Like you're always swimming, your show is always changing. Plus you are always changing. Your company too. You have new products and services that may appeal to different segments of the audience differently. And I like how you mentioned for follow up too, it's not just about knowing who you want to meet, which is that big picture question that I was talking about, but once you meet them in your booth and then you get ready for follow up, you needed to have taken good notes about them so that then you can segment your follow-up efforts too. And so I like to qualify people. I use a hot to not scale. You can call it ABC, whatever you want, but your hot leads are going to get more touch points after a show than your cool or not leads. And they're going to get different kinds of touch points. But if you didn't take good notes, if you don't know your audience well enough to categorize them properly, then you can't do any of that. It's kind of like you're starting over after the show.
Jay Menashe: Yeah. and this might be different for every show. Do you have is there like a a an average percentage of an audience that is likely gonna be your audience?
Robyn Davis: It varies from show to show and by type of show. So whether it's a horizontal industry, a vertical industry, a hybrid industry, there's a lot of things. And there is a section in the book that talks about all of those different categorizations. But a lot of people will tell me it's a hundred percent, it's ninety percent, like I know this is our audience. And so we walk that back. It's rarely even eighty percent of the show. I generally see more in like the thirty percent range, fifteen percent range, depending on the show itself. Every so often you'll see someone who has a pretty high percentage, but then you have an opportunity to be more specific within that segment as to what your goals are and how you match a piece of the overall segment to you. There's no trade show that I'm aware of where every single audience member is the exact same type of company, the exact same role, the exact same buying power, all of the different things that you might consider. Attendees are all different and so you should be able to segment down to a more specific focus, even though there's not like a really rule of thumb for show to show.
Jay Menashe: Well, and it also helps with realistic goal setting. If you think you're gonna get ninety percent of the show as your audience, let's say it's realistically in that fifteen to thirty percent, which I think you very accurate on that. What is it, ten percent of that fifteen to thirty percent are actually gonna stop by into your space? So it's like that's where goals come from. It's like, well, we need this many people to come in and this many people will be cur turned into qualified leads and then qualified opportunities. Cause yeah, and I think that's a differentiation people need to think about. Every lead is not a qualified lead. And nobody, you know, if you're creating this follow-up list and you are segmenting that as well, it's like salespeople want qualified leads. They don't just want a name and an email and a company name because it's like, I'm so excited. This, you know, Fortune 50 company came into our space. It's like, yeah, they came in because we were giving away a a neato squishy that their kid wanted and it was game over after that.
Robyn Davis: Yeah, for sure. I have a whole other thoughts and feelings about the concept of attractions. I call it the Robyn Davis test, which is like if I, Robyn Davis, want whatever it is you're giving away, it's probably not the right fit because I can't buy anything from you. So I can't tell you how many lines I've stood in to get toy trucks for my nieces and nephews, or I have a big screen TV in the other room that I won at a trade show because I was standing in a booth and they were doing a giveaway. I'm sure that marketing company Like that marketing budget was not supposed to go to someone like me. But if you're not paying attention, then you don't know that. And when you're thinking about the segmentation and knowing your audience on the show floor, it also helps when you're standing in your booth. It's not just for this qualifying and follow-up process, but if you're as a staffer standing in the booth and watching people walk by and you're asking them, I recommend an opening question, which I think we're gonna talk about a little bit later. But when you walk by and people are answering no. you need to know that, well, there's only supposed to be three out of ten anyway. So if you're getting all of these nos, that's appropriate. That's right. You're doing a good job to get down to the right number you should talk to. And then we can go from there. So I think it helps to manage everyone's expectations when you have that figured out in advance.
Jay Menashe: Yeah. And listen, the law of averages is a law for a reason. So, let let's remember that when we're planning these goals. And it's like, yeah, no, I think I love that point. And yes, that is exactly the next question I was going to ask. so your booth staff, they are certain shows where it's like you literally come within three feet of them. They're I need to scan your badge I'm like, I can't tell you how many people I've I'm like, please just don't scan my badge. You are my lead. I am not your lead. But obviously this should be a conversation. They should ask questions, they should turn this into a relationship. Stop. treating your audience members like targets and actually treating them like guests, what would you say is one question you'd recommend? And obviously this will vary by industry, so we're gonna go a little bit generic, but what's one question that turns a scan into more of a conversation?
Robyn Davis: So let me take a step back from that and say it's more a type of question rather than a particular question itself. a lot of people will start with an open-ended question like how are you enjoying the show? Or even a statement like nice shoes or something like that. Have you heard about our company? and what are you interested in this and that sort of thing? So they try and make it really broad to help people want to chat with you. But at trade shows, people are so focused they don't have time to chat. And so I suggest flipping it. Start with a closed-ended question. Are you looking for, have you considered, are you interested in whatever it is that you do or offer? And then that way the attendee can self-select. And so I don't like to scan people until you get past that first question. They say yes. You may tell them a sentence, maybe two max. I don't like to say more than two sentences about my company before I learn about theirs. But that's where you can start. And then you scan their badge. great, can I take notes while you talk? Do you mind if I scan this real quick? And then you can go through the rest of your questions, listen, guide the conversation with more specific open-ended questions rather than this general, tell me what you're looking for, tell me what you know about us. we want to make sure that they're in the right place first and foremost, and then you're doing more listening than talking, and that should help to make it a little more productive of a conversation.
Jay Menashe: Hm. Yes, the the listening part. That that's the important part. You y is there any this isn't this is not a gotcha question, but this is a side question that I wasn't gonna ask. When you have a booth staff there, are there titles you may recommend to be there versus others? You know, obviously salespeople is like, no, we need all the salespeople. How do you feel about that? Like who do you think should be staffing a booth, most likely?
Robyn Davis: It depends on your goals for the show. I think you need representation to cover the types of people your attendees are going to want to meet if you want your attendees to support you in your goals. So for example, sales may be a good fit, but a product developer or an engineer may be an even better fit if people are trying to understand how the product works or where it's going to fail before they agree to get into a sales conversation. They may want to talk to an executive if they are For example, an enterprise level account. And so they want to make sure that your company is going to pay attention to them, that they'll get the service they need, and that you're used to handling these types of things. They want to make sure they understand that piece. On the other side of that, you may also have specific goals, like maybe you're doing some hiring at your show or working to progress your hiring process, in which case you'd want someone from HR to be there. Or maybe you want to create some content and save your company some time and effort throughout the rest of the year by Collecting these ideas and putting them together in a way that you can repackage and share for the rest of the year. And so you'd want someone on your content team, whether that's marketing or digital or whoever it may be, just depending on your company structure. But matching the audience's interests and your company goals is where it becomes really interesting as to who you'd include on your team. Regardless of who you choose, though, I will say training is super important. So never bring someone just because they have a good title. Bring them because they're willing to work, they're trained properly, and they fit the need on either or both of those sides.
Jay Menashe: You are making segues to follow-up questions much easier than I would say most of my guests do. Because I was gonna ask you about training next, because I think it's underdone to say the least. You know, your booth design gets months and a a pretty hefty budget to to obviously put that together, build it out. The staff training gets 30 minutes the day the show is opening, maybe. If it gets scheduled at all, you know, when you have only that afternoon, you know, what do you cut? what do you refuse to cut? And you know, no matter what is happening, how much time you have, it's like we need to talk about these few points.
Robyn Davis: So I hate that companies don't prioritize and value training for their team. Once you get on site, your staff is your representation. It doesn't matter what else you did before that, they're the ones who are going to dictate your reputation and results. And so they deserve your attention in order to help them do their best work. That's a non negotiable for me overall. Like we make time for training. But Given the circumstances you've provided and in the spirit of helping anyone who may be in this situation that is beyond their control, I would cut the logistics reminders. What color shirt do you wear on what day? What time do you show up? Those can be sent in an email, or nowadays a text message is probably more appropriate, a group Slack, something like that. we don't need to spend time in person doing that. the other thing that I would cut is the detailed company history. I think a lot of times exhibitors will spend too much time going into depth on topics that they don't need to discuss in the booth. We need to know exactly what's relevant to the audience to help them get closer to their goals. And that there are some things that you can pick up as you go on site. If you start getting some interesting questions in your debrief at the end of each show day, bring those up in front of your teammates so that everyone has the correct information moving forward. Also, if you're a new staffer and you haven't received the pre-training and you weren't able to catch as much as you wanted in this mini training. I call it a refresher training on site, but when you do that, shadow someone in the booth. Listen closely to what they're doing, even if you're not in their conversation, you can stand a couple steps away and just kind of like lean to where they are. Nobody will even notice you, but you'll hear how they're doing things and how they're saying things. So those are some of the things that I'd cut. As far as what I'm sorry.
Jay Menashe: No no no no go ahead, go ahead.
Robyn Davis: Keep going. I was just gonna say, as far what I should keep, I would suggest the onboarding, which is not part of that half hour that you've mentioned, but it would be separate one-on-one conversations. It can be about five minutes each. but this is where you set expectations with your team members. This is another one of those where you see everyone in the same room and the people who are more experienced feel like the rules don't apply to them. And so you have to have these one-on-one conversations. Otherwise, people won't show up to the booth, they won't be dressed appropriately, they won't have the appropriate goals. You won't know how you can help them, all of those things. So onboarding is a non-negotiable for me. The other thing that I would say, if you are down to that last 30 minutes, the show is opening, you've got to scramble to get done, do one round of practice for everyone. Take out the lead retrieval or your lead cards, however you're taking notes in the booth, scan one of your team members' badges. Take the notes of exactly what questions you were supposed to have been asking and see how it works so that you know that you're getting that information down properly.
Jay Menashe: That that little bit of like five minutes to go through the lead retrieval device, it's like, yeah, your entire show is gonna be resting on this stupid phone or your app within the phone. It's like, yeah, maybe you should try it out first and see how you fill it in and like how you push things forward. what I was gonna say and almost interrupt you was I have to give a shout out to the exhibitus marketing team, Kelsey specifically. The training they went through with a company that does this for a living is really impressive. Like, you know, they create the whole docket of like This is what the booth looks like. This is where everybody's gonna, you you're gonna stand in these zones and they the talking points, what's our theme? And I could say, like you talk about training and onboarding, like there are so many companies that don't do that at all. Forget about just for a show or an event, period. Like it's like, no, you're here, you you got it, right? You you can figure it out. So I think that's such an important point to emphasize like that onboarding portion and you know, use the tools. Teach them how to use the tools. And I think it goes such a long way.
Robyn Davis: Definitely. I love that your team prioritizes that. I see a lot in our industry in particular of the events companies that we want them to be a great example, but often there are some that are really great and some that are not so great. And so I think that's wonderful that your company is making that a priority so you can set an example within our industry.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, it's the old do as I say, not as I do. It's a very good it's a parenting philosophy I live by.
Robyn Davis: Yeah.
Jay Menashe: So we're up to the last question. I'm sure there'll be some some bonus questions as always. but if you could force every exhibitor to re redesign one thing about how they prepare for the show, obviously you know, the booth itself is a totally different conversation. But you know, what would it be about the preparation and what would you title that chapter of the book if you wrote the book again today? Please don't do that. You just got this one up.
Robyn Davis: No, I will not be rewriting the book anytime soon. When it started, it was over a hundred thousand words. And so we cut it down to about eighty-five thousand words in the end. So there were some other sections, there were some other topics that I really did want to include. now, fair warning, so there's no gotchas. I am not the best at naming things, so I'm gonna tell you the topics and then maybe you can help me come up with a name. But so One idea I had was that we should talk more about these different team members. And in particular, especially given my background in engineering, I thought we should talk more about how to incorporate engineers and product developers in your efforts and how to look at some of these other team members. I mentioned HR, I mentioned content, all of these other people, how can they support your participation more and better? And so I think that could be really great. We did pull out especially a lot of the content on executives. We got we kept that, but we put it in other chapters. So you'll see it kind of like as you're going through when you need to make decisions about things, how do you discuss that with an executive? and that sort of thing. The other one that I was thinking about a lot, and I was really sad to cut, is about how you handle the stress of being in this space and how you manage that on top of all of your other responsibilities. Now I I wouldn't go so far as to say trade shows are a traumatic experience, but there are the four F's of trauma response, fight, flight, fawn, and freeze. And I wanted to go through a little bit of those. And I have these really fun stories of like how you see that come out in people in a real life trade show experience so that as a leader you can manage when you see other people going through these challenging times. And then as yourself, you can recognize my gosh, okay, I need to handle this because I am in one of these states. and so I think something more on like the mental health and the management of that for trade show exhibitors is a crucial component that just unfortunately did not fit in this book.
Jay Menashe: I think we have a follow up book, don't we?
Robyn Davis: Maybe so. What would you call them?
Jay Menashe: What would I call those four stages of fight, flight?
Robyn Davis: Yeah.
Jay Menashe: I I don't know. I'm not good off the top of my head unless I'm making fun of somebody there. I can come in hot any time.
Robyn Davis: That's why we need editors.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, well that's for sure. No, I think that's but I think that's a really good point. I mean, the mental health side of events is a real thing and not even just for the people organizing and planning and producing, but when you're on site, there's never enough breaks built into the schedule, or usually any. It's like, you can have five minutes. You know, and I'll turn it back to the conference I was just at. It was end of quarter. This is a large tech and SaaS audience, and they had this event over end of quarter, which had to stress everybody out that day specifically. So I I would think, you know Honestly, it just a chapter focused on like how can you help your team be their best? And that's focusing on the mental health on site.
Robyn Davis: Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's really important. I try to talk about it when we can. There is a little bit on some of that kind of thing, but a lot of the big piece of it didn't fit. And there are a lot of other experts who focus on that exclusively as a part of their role. And so I'm hopeful that people who get this book will also pay attention to some of the other great resources within our industry.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, no, there are some really great mental health experts on LinkedIn posting all the time about especially event specific. So yes, you can find them pretty easily. I'm not gonna name all the names right now because I will inevitably leave somebody out and feel bad and then I'm just gonna not do that. So Well that kind of wraps us up for today. Is there where can everybody find you, first of all?
Robyn Davis: So I'm on LinkedIn most often, Robyn Davis, CPTD CEM That's how you find me. I'm the one with the initials, and my name is Robyn with a Y. And then my book is Exhibit Smarter, a step-by-step guide to trade show success. I love that you have it. it's just exhibitsmarter.com. It's available anywhere books are sold online.
Jay Menashe: And I highly recommend it. I've known Robyn for I'm gonna say close to at least ten years, probably longer than that because I'm old. but yeah, no, you've always been a like calm, sane, smart voice in this industry. And the engineering background makes a lot of sense for engineering the step by step process. So thank you so much for being here. Everybody look her up, everybody buy the book. It should be sold. You need it, there's no doubt about it.
Robyn Davis: Thank you, Jay. This was wonderful.
Jay Menashe: Thank you. If you walked away with one thing you'll use, we did our job today. Event Experience Experts drops every week. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and check us out on YouTube if you want to watch. I'm Jay Menashe see you next time.
