Jay Menashe: Most events are forgettable, not because the people running them don't care, but because they're optimizing for logistics instead of memory. I'm Jay Menashe Senior Director of Strategy and Growth at Exhibitus, and this is Event Experience Experts. Every episode, I sit down with the creatives, strategists, and senior leaders who are raising the bar on what live brand experiences can actually do. If you're done accepting forgettable, you're in the right place. My guest today is Chloe Richardson. She is the head of content and ELX. An Iron Man athlete and marathon runner, and a retired Snow Queen. Chloe and I connected on LinkedIn, I want to say it was about three or four years ago when you demoed the Explory platform for me. And I've just, you know, generally stayed a pretty big fan of your content. That's why I'm referencing your Snow Queen days, making me especially jealous of all of your amazing travels long after that call ended. And she's been near the top of my guest list since the very first draft of the show. Chloe's the type of person we all know. She knows how to take command of a room. She brings all the energy that we need. And she's not just the head of content at Event Leaders Exchange. She is also the resident MC. So today we're going deep on a scale I don't believe gets enough credit at events, the role of MC. Chloe, welcome to the show.
Chloe Richardson: Thanks Jay. Great, deep forward, the Snow Queen thing. I was thinking for a second, what does he mean? And then I remembered, yes, the days of dressing up and singing frozen songs to small children. So yes, thank you for having me Jay. It's an absolute pleasure.
Jay Menashe: of course, of course. I mean, you know, if we're gonna talk about Disney before we start recording, I gotta bring up the Snow Queen Yeah, I was actually doing the deep dive 'cause for one of my questions I wanted to find a specific post I remembered you sharing and I was like I was a year in, I'm like, I'm just gonna stop and we're just gonna figure it out on the fly. That's all right. Yeah. Well so so let me start from the top. You know, you've been in the event industry for a while, you've had a few different roles obviously, like we all have. You know, what would you say you got wrong earlier in your career that completely changed how you approach the work now?
Chloe Richardson: Gosh, I think earlier on, so to your point, I've kind of spanned all of the different segments of the industry. I've spent a lot of time in the trade show space. I've done venue work, corporate events, association. Now I'm heavily, heavily involved in content and I'm seeing measurement and strategy and all of that kind of falls under the overall umbrella of what I've been doing. And I guess. A mistake I probably made earlier on is thinking that I had to make that decision right at the beginning. Because when you're starting out in this industry, I remember I was 19 years old, it was 17 years ago. It was kind of, it just felt like this is, you pigeon hole yourself, I think a little bit. And I became an event manager and that was what I did. And then as I started to try other things and different opportunities became available to me, I started to realize that actually our industry is really small. And you don't have to pick just one thing to be good at. You can actually open yourself up to so many different options and opportunities, which is one of the best things about being in the events industry. And so I'm glad that I learned that pretty early on, but I definitely started out thinking, right, what I'm doing right now, I have to do for the rest of my life. And actually, as we know, Jay, that's not necessarily the case.
Jay Menashe: Yeah. Well, and it can be super overwhelming early in your career be like, this is it. Like I'm four years in and now I have like another thirty years of this. I think out of all the industries there are, it's like to be versatile and to be able to have so many different skill sets, this is the best one to be. I talk about it all the time. It's like that skill of figure it out is there's nothing more necessary than in in the event world.
Chloe Richardson: Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that's why event professionals generally have such transferable skills and can move into any sector in any industry. Because once you've lived through the firefighting and plate spinning world of being an event professional, I mean, there's nothing I don't think that we can't do. And that's sometimes why I think we keep coming back. Because actually, sometimes you step into different roles outside the event world and realize it's less fulfilling and less stressful. we... think, realise we crave a little bit of that stress because it's what gets us through the adrenaline and the excitement. And so we all come back. I think it's hard to leave this world for a long time.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, I left it for nine months and I couldn't like literally two weeks into that job, I'm like, What am I doing? Yeah. And I was only in the industry at that point for about three and a half years. And I remember I was interviewing for a job to get back in the industry and I was at an event and it was WEC with my now wife. And all I wanted to do was get on the trade show floor. I'm like, God, I think I have a pro no, I don't have a problem. I have a passion, which is that's exactly people in our industry, it's like, you know I always say it's like within two to three months, you know if this is for you or you should just Run for the hills.
Chloe Richardson: Mm-hmm. No, so true.
Jay Menashe: So I want to talk a little bit about you as the MC. Well, obviously mostly that is what we're gonna be focusing on. You know when you're the MC or just even a presenter on stage, you're talking to potentially thousands of people, but at the same time, you also want to like connect on an individual level. How do you make sure that you're connecting to like people at that like personal level while you're also talking to this large group?
Chloe Richardson: I think it's probably a mixture of a couple of things. First and foremost, I really like to make sure I know who my audience are before I actually step out on that stage. So that's understanding, first of all, the kind of simple demographic things like where they're from, what roles they sit in, how senior they are, what their challenges are, what their objectives are. But then it's kind of going that one level deeper and saying, what do they expect from this event today? What are they wanting to leave with? What keeps them up at night? So kind of, Getting into that profile of attendee before you walk out on stage is really important because then you can thread that through everything you do, whether it's the introduction, the housekeeping, you can throw in kind of odd little references that might be quite niche, but you know everyone else in the room is gonna understand what you're talking about. So there's that part of it. But then when it comes to the delivery, I think it's about maintaining those small moments of engagement. So when people talk about audience engagement and interaction, they immediately think of Slido or they immediately think of getting people to ask questions to your guests or maybe voting on which way they want the conversation to go. And those things are absolutely important. But I think it's really just about even whilst you're walking, ask kind of rhetorical questions. So say to someone on the front row, isn't that right? Or something like that and get them to feel like they're a part of the experience early on. Because even if it's not real personalization, I don't know that person sat in that chair. But I'm looking at them whilst I'm speaking to them and they feel like we're engaging on a personal level. So it automatically means that not only are they going to feel like they belong in this room, but they also feel like there's some sort of connection between them and the stage. And that's really, really important. So I'd say a combination of the two, how you prep and then how you deliver.
Jay Menashe: I love that. You know, making that eye contact. And there was something you posted about like, you know, passive people are not passionate people. And if you can get that passion out of them and drive that energy up, you're gonna get a better result. How you know, when you're doing the research and figuring out like what people are trying to expect, where are you looking? are you just talking to the organizer? Like where does that come from?
Chloe Richardson: So the organizers are part of it for sure. So in my very first meetings with the organizing team, will ask them to give me a breakdown of their audience. But then I'd like to go one step further and obviously do my own research and whether that be just generally about the industry. I like to look up latest industry research papers and the trends that we're seeing and the challenges that they might be facing. And then this doesn't always happen, but if I would have my way, I would do this every time. And that's actually having kind of a one-to-one chat for 30 minutes. with some of these audience members about two or three months in advance of the show and just explaining to them, this is a little bit of research for me just to make sure I understand what you need to get from your onsite experience. And just taking a small sample of the audience and often times I find the organizer thinks they know everything about the people in the room but that often isn't always the case. And so actually just being in a really safe space and just saying, what is it you want from this? can really change that narrative. And so that's something that I like to do. I don't always have the chance to do it, but in an ideal world, I'd like to be able to do that.
Jay Menashe: How often do you get that kind of access? Because I would think that's like a no-brainer. Like even if it's two or three people, it's like that is like such you know low hanging fruit for them to set.
Chloe Richardson: I'd say 20 % of the time.
Jay Menashe: And is that a function of time or is that a function of like they just are like we can't do that for you?
Chloe Richardson: I think a lot of the time it's the organizer maybe not feeling comfortable about providing that space because they might not know what the person might say. But also it's about, because for a lot of them, excluding the ELX work I do, a lot of my clients, I only work with them on an MC basis and they don't really know me beyond that. So actually some of them could argue, we're letting this random MC loose one-to-one in front of our clients. Who knows what she's going to say? I'm Northern, so who does know what I'm gonna say? Huh, it's all a mystery. But so I'd say about 20 % of the time I get to do it with non-ELX clients. That being said, with ELX events, obviously I know our membership almost like the back of my hand. Sometimes it feels like that and I get to engage with them on a daily basis. So I have the luxury of when I pull together my ELX events and the content around that, I have co-chairs that are involved. in the whole process, they're always members. They are there to be the eyes and ears and opinions of our membership to make sure that what I'm building is relevant and interesting. But then I also have to send my content agendas and the drafts to our advisory committee who are, I think there's 14 of them now, who are all members from different parts of the world, from different industries. And they also have to sign off the agenda to make sure that it's relevant and interesting. So I've got kind of two layers of... sense checking approach that means that by the time it gets to point where I'm saying, right, this is our agenda and this is how I'm going to MC this, I feel really confident that it is exactly the right note for those people that we have in the room.
Jay Menashe: Mm-hmm. No, that makes a lot of sense. And I think having that access, obviously, with the LX is easy. Yes. and everybody that listens to this hopefully will realize it's like, yeah, just give Chloe access. You can trust her. Please. I always I also struggle with that. It's like, you're hiring me. I understand you need to build trust, you need to earn trust. But it's like, but this is what we're here for. Like why wouldn't you give that access?
Chloe Richardson: I think you see it a lot more when the organizer isn't really an event organizer. So you often have people who get thrust into the role of organizing this conference and actually it's not really their day to day. And so it perhaps doesn't feel normal for them to let someone from outside into their world. And I get it. And if it's not right, then that's absolutely fine. What I love as well actually is when they have an easy way to kind of get into their membership or attendees without them really knowing. is if they've got some of their attendees in a panel or in a speaker slot, because then it's really easy for me to offer to do a speaker briefing and then I can get to know them in that way. there are kind of ways around it, but yeah, I genuinely would recommend if there's anything anyone takes away from this part of the conversation, it's let your MCs have access to your audience, because actually it's a win-win, because not only will your audience feel like they're really being listened to and taking into consideration when this event is being planned, but also it means that your MC can deliver a more bespoke and personalized conversation in front of your attendees. So win-win all round, I'd say.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, and on the agency side, I know, you know, we always push for that. It's like, hey, you know, yeah, there's an RFP coming, you have this program, obviously we want to be your partner, but you know, we also want to make sure we like each other before we even dive into this whole thing because chemistry and culture is such an important you know, the amount of times we're on calls and meetings and travel together, it's like, Hey, can we just spend thirty minutes like getting to know each other? How 'bout that?
Chloe Richardson: Mm-hmm. No, it's exactly that. I think, again, to your earlier point, it does take a bit of time, but it's important because you don't want to leave it until the event when you realise actually this wasn't a good match. It's too late. Yeah.
Jay Menashe: That is for sure. Yeah, I trust my gut feeling on those. that's something I have to lean on a lot when it's like, you're giving me all the negative signs. I think it we should just walk away from this. Yeah. Which is hard. Which is hard. So for sure. You know, so you've obviously done this for a while the MC'ing. You know, how do you know when you're up on stage you're just being like, how do you know it's working? And I'm not talking like obviously after the event is over, it's easy to look at it that way, but like when you're in that moment, it's like I need to do something different here.
Chloe Richardson: Well, it's difficult and you know, Jay, that I am a big advocate for robust, tangible metrics. And this is kind of the opposite of that, right? Because I can't immediately in the middle of an introduction be like, right, everyone, can you give me a score out of five for how you feel I'm engaging with you in this particular segment? It just wouldn't work. But there's a few things that I tend to look out for. It's a little bit flowery, so I apologize. But just generally, I think you can feel when there's an energy in the room. Again, eye contact, it's posture, it's body language. But also I think when you're out there, and I did do a post about this, I measure my on stage success often based on how many mobile phones I can see in people's hands. And there have been some events where I've noticed there are more than I would like. And so I immediately shift the energy. I immediately go to a different part of the stage. I start speaking slightly differently because that tends to shake people up and they're like, something's changed. I'm gonna put my phone away. And so it can just be a tiny tweak that makes all the difference. Luckily, I generally work with quite senior audiences and they tend to want to really engage and they're there because they've got two days away from the office and they can finally do something in terms of professional development or network with their peers. So they're not as bad at taking their phones out. But for me, that's a real telltale sign. And sometimes I watch other people's sessions and I can see everyone with their phones out and I think, first of all, I feel really bad for the person on the stage. But then I think, use it, turn it around, like pivot, because you still have the opportunity to land with this audience, because you're in the moment right now. So I think as well, this is something that I say to speakers in particular, don't be too regimented in your planning of what your session is going to look like. because you never know if it is gonna hit or miss with your audience. So be prepared to be able to switch it, even just a tiny bit if it comes to movement or stage placement so that you can get your audience's attention again. So I'd say general kind of atmosphere. If people are laughing at your jokes, sometimes, Jay, people don't laugh at my jokes and I get really upset. And then I think, no, it was a bad joke. It's not because they're not listening to me. So then I just tell a better joke and then we're fine. But then especially with... The language barrier. Sometimes I tell very English jokes and I just see a sea of North American faces staring back at me. And then I'll have someone in my ear saying, Chloe, we don't use that word in the US. I'm like, okay, moving on. So I haven't obviously done my homework very well in terms of understanding my audience in that case. But yeah, no, phones for me has to be kind of that key metric of whether the audience are engaged in the moment or not.
Jay Menashe: No, I think that's really good metric. I you gave me a little anxiety when, like, yeah, just switch up your presentation on the fly. It's like Chloe, let me tell you when I have a presentation, I rehearse my presentation, I am ready to go. I'm like but yeah, not switch.
Chloe Richardson: No, it's not actually the I don't think it's the content you need to change. Again, it's just how you're presenting it. So even if you change the cadence of how you speak. So, for example, I speak very quickly. You'll find especially this interview is a great example. I have been talking quite rapidly as we've been having this conversation, Jay. But if I take a step back and all of a sudden I'm speaking slowly and with real intention, everyone in the room. is going to start paying attention. And that slight shift can really make all the difference. So please don't deviate from your PowerPoint presentation. I don't want to throw you off completely, but just think of different ways that you can perhaps say those things or slowing it down or speeding it up or kind of really getting excited about it because people do tune into that.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, for me it's like I need people to have energy when they're presenting, otherwise I am gonna be like I'll just lose interest or I'll lose fo it's not even losing interest, it's like I lose focus. And I think that's it's a modern problem. I'm not obviously alone and it's like I just pick up my phone out of habit because it's the new you know, it's the new cigarette, it's a digital cigarette is what I usually refer to it as. And I often get this at home, it's like, What are you doing? I'm like, I don't know. I just picked it up. I don't know.
Chloe Richardson: Just habit, isn't it? Just like a blanket, like a comfort blanket.
Jay Menashe: So I was gonna say, for me, it's like it takes like a split second for me to be like, I'm not interested in this anymore. And I could I just pick up my phone. And but it's not even true. It's just like a mental, like, and that's where I think the addiction comes in, where it's like, no, I just I feel the need I need to look at this thing every five seconds, unfortunately. Which is also why my little vacation this past week and a half was amazing, because I had no cell signal, I had no Wi-Fi. but feeling that energy, and I love it's basically your it's like a context change of what you were talking. And that's what I really loved about your answer. It's like you're not changing the actual content of what you're presenting. It's more whether you're speeding up your speak or you're slowing it down or you're jumping around, but it's like doing something surprising to re-engage people. And I really like that point.
Chloe Richardson: Yeah, and it's something I talk to a lot of my speakers about because what I think we forget as well, so many of our speakers, they're not professional speakers, they're thought leaders in their area of expertise. And they don't do this for a living, especially if they're sponsor speakers, or you might have somebody internally from the C-suite who's up on the stage. And so I say that to them, I say use your movement and almost captivate the audience by not standing still ever and keep shifting. their heads and their eyes. And that's the kind of thing that you need to keep them engaged throughout, especially if it's a slightly less interesting topic.
Jay Menashe: Yeah. it's also how you start the presentation, I think, sets the stage for all of that because so often and god, I'm forgetting the name of the book, but it's like you know, when you start talking about logistics, like hey, turn your phones off doing versus like just jumping in and getting people excited and like that in itself, it's like you're setting the stage for like, I'm already bored by this, please just get into it.
Chloe Richardson: Yeah, and actually it's interesting you say that, because this is something that I've been preaching quite a lot lately, and it's that if you're starting with your housekeeping, then it's just going to fall flat. And what you've got is to make an event memorable, you want to lean into your primary and recency bias. And so that means that the beginning and the end matters more than anything else. And so now when I'm on stage, I don't introduce myself until kind of the third paragraph in, because I want to set the stage a bit. I want to open with a story or a bold statement or a thought provoking question so that people kind of take us like a step back and think, who is this person? And then you go, and I'm Chloe Richardson and welcome to today's blah, blah, blah, blah. And at that point they're in, right? They're locked in for the ride. So yeah, I totally agree with you. I think it's really important. And there's a framework that I like to use in my public speaking training in particular, which is all about first impressions. And I think you said you make your first impression very quickly when you're sat there in the audience and you... decide it's not interesting or not for you, so you might pull your phone out. But there's something called the three, 10, 30 rule that I like to use. And that's that when you're sat in the audience, in the first three seconds, people obviously notice your appearance, okay? In the first 10 seconds, they form an impression from your body language and your presence. And in the first 30 seconds, they decide whether or not what you're about to lead them into is gonna be interesting to them or not. So if you haven't made them interested in that first 30 seconds, it's unlikely you're gonna be able to get them fully back on board. Now you can, like I said, use movements to kind of bring them back a little bit, but that first 30 seconds is so important. Cause I think, is it the old adage we say, takes seven seconds to make a first impression, I think is what we say. But actually it's really as a speaker and as an MC, it's that first 30 where you're convincing the people in the room that what you're about to tell them is something that they want to listen to.
Jay Menashe: No, that's a great framework. And I think, you know, I we always hear, don't judge a book by its cover, but the reality is we all judge books by their covers. And every presentation, every person you meet, it's like within those few seconds or thirty seconds, it's like, yeah, I've already made my judgment on you. let's get it together or I'm moving on with my life.
Chloe Richardson: No, absolutely right. And I would love to live in a world where we don't make judgments, but unfortunately it's human nature. And so you just want to engage them right from the beginning and really enwrap to them and get their attention.
Jay Menashe: Well and the reality is most people they trust their guts, they trust their instincts and it's like, Yeah, I'm not supposed to judge this but it's like, Hey, I've been living this life for a long time. I'm gonna trust that I've already done this before. and I didn't like it.
Chloe Richardson: Yeah, for sure.
Jay Menashe: So you've done some pretty cool presentations where it's like whether it's the location you do it from or just doing something different, you know, what does a client or a stakeholder have to believe, you know, before they gave you that kind of latitude? And this is the one I was looking for the post, because there was one you were posting it, it was from a trade show or a conference and you were like on some kind of bridge that you were presenting from. And it was very and that was the one I was trying to find it, but I was like, you know what, I remember it enough. But yeah, how do you get people to like just trust you to like she's gonna do it? We just know it's gonna work out great.
Chloe Richardson: So full disclosure, I would say about 25 % of the time, the design for that type of presentation format is already there because the organizer has decided that's what it's gonna be. And that's when you know you're working with someone who's from the experiential space because they really care about doing something different and fresh and new to engage their audiences and to offer their audiences something unique, which I love, which makes my job a little easier. And I do find particularly when I'm doing events in industries that are perhaps renowned to not be as creative, it tends to be reflected in how their organizer works because they don't want to take the risk. And so it ends up always being a pitch for me, really. So I tend to go and so I'll in most cases, and we're talking again, excluding ELX, I'll be presented with here's your audience, here's the event. dates, times, logistics, that kind of thing. We want you to come up with some content formats for session two, four and seven, go away and come back to us. And I always have to pitch it and I have to give them a real reason why this is good for them to do. So it's about not only obviously it will engage their audiences, but it will leave their audiences with a better impression of the brand, or perhaps it will... mean that their audiences are more likely to come back the following year because of the different experience they've had. And I really try and push people away from this kind of three-person panel format on rinse and repeat. I can't stand it. I don't hate panels, but there are so many ways that we can do them differently. And so it's just constantly reminding people, organizers in particular, that your audiences in 2026 have so many different events that they could go to. Why are they gonna come to yours? And they're not gonna come to yours if they're gonna see the same thing that they've been seeing for the last 20 years. So why don't we do something a bit different to make sure they come back? And I think that's really the pitch that I try and put in front of people because from an MC or content architect perspective as well, like it's so much more fun for me to be able to do something different because fireside chats can be really great. depending on the person you're interviewing, but doing five or six of them in one conference, it's not only boring for the audience, it's boring for me. And you get to the end of the day and you kind of feel like you're on autopilot because you're asking the same questions again and again. And no matter how much you try, unfortunately, you can't always make a fireside chat really fun. So there are very easy ways that you can spice it up with panels. You can kind of put everyone in three different corners of the stage and have them always like. you versus you versus you kind of format, or you can get them coming on one by one, or you've probably seen there's some conferences who now have the stage in the middle and it's circular and they have each panelist kind of facing in or facing out. You could have a panelist come up, present a use case and the audience vote on whether it's something that they might use or not. And then the next panelist comes up. So there are so many different ways of presenting multiple people on stage in one session. We don't just have to sit in three chairs and kind of ask questions and all agree with one another for that to work.
Jay Menashe: Yeah. I mean people can only sit there for so long and just listen and be talked at. They wanna be in involved in something. They wanna talk to somebody themselves.
Chloe Richardson: That's it. And a lot of people say content is king. And I actually did do a piece on this recently where I said it's not content, it's contribution that is king. Because the more we expect our audiences to sit there and watch us like a TV show, the more they are probably going to next time stay at home and just watch a TV show. Because actually we're not as entertaining as HBO, right? And none of us are good. We don't have the budgets to put on a full Game of Thrones performance on the stage. So actually what's gonna get them to come back and that's to make them feel like their opinion matters, like their voice counts, like we wanna hear their ideas as well as sharing some of our own. And I find the best content agendas bring those two things together. So it's all about collaboration and contribution from the audience, especially when you have a senior audience because they've got such a wealth of experience. Why would you not tap into their expertise as well to make your content even better? That is really for me what makes an event unique is how you bring in the audience, how you get them along for the journey and how you make them leave feeling like, not only did I learn, but I gave back. Because we're humans and being seen is probably one of the most valuable things that we can take away with us. So let's make our audiences feel seen by involving them in the conversation.
Jay Menashe: No, that's very well said. I think yeah, there's so many times where you just sit there for eight hours like what did I just do with my day?
Chloe Richardson: And you know, it's ironic really, because being in the content space, I should be better at sitting through other content, but I really struggle. And I think I'm like you, I kind of get, I decide very quickly that I'm maybe not engaging with this, but also a lot of the time it's not a conscious decision. I'm trying really hard and I just find my mind wandering. And so I have found often that I am designing events that would hopefully keep someone like me engaged. And that's kind of where a lot of it comes from. It's how would someone who's easily distracted feel in this room during this session? so I try and put that into everything I do, but I, we have, we had a speaker for a couple of ELX events called Richard Newman and I booked him again because for the first time in my life, I sat through a 90 minute session and I didn't want to leave. I had to go to the bathroom, but I was like, no, I'm going to wait till the break because I was so engaged. And so it taught me it's not that I'm terrible at listening for a long period of time. It's just that it needs to be delivered in a way that brings me into it. And he did a really great job of that. And there are other speakers and MCs that are also really good at it. And so I try and kind of represent that too in the way that I do my events.
Jay Menashe: Alright, it makes a lot of sense. If it resonates with you, it's likely gonna resonate with other people. And I'm very similar. there's very certain types of presenters where it's like I'm just so out so quickly and then others where it's like, How do I get more of this type of content in my life? Mm-hmm. All right. Final question for you. Yes. so we've been doing this for a long time and you know, if there's one thing you could redesign about how brands approach live events from scratch, what would it be?
Chloe Richardson: Ooh. Can I answer with an MC based answer? that?
Jay Menashe: Yeah, that's what the topic of the conversation is.
Chloe Richardson: Great, great. Because I think actually there are so many brands who don't bring in a professional MC and who either rely on an internal member of the team or have loads of different people kind of slotting in where it matters. And I find that's really detrimental to the story because in order for us to have that continuous narrative throughout an event, which we should, it should not be loads of different sessions just put together. It should be an experience and a journey for the audience. In order to deliver something like that, that really connects and really resonates, you have to have somebody leading that ship. And sometimes I speak to organizers and brands and they say, no, we don't bring in a professional MC, we just get someone to do it internally. And I'm thinking, that's such a miss because the... the that it changes the journey for your audience, again, will not only increase brand perception, but it will keep them coming back year on year. And so I would implore everyone out there to just have a think and think, is it worth us bringing in somebody who can be that storyteller, who can hold everything together, be the glue? But that's not all MCs do. We also support the speakers. If a speaker's having a moment where perhaps they forget what they're saying or they start to go off track, your MC is there to bring it all back. And without someone in that role, I would say you're open to a lot of risk, which we don't want to be, right? We don't want to put ourselves in that position. So I would just say from the beginning, you need to bring in a storyteller that's going to help you tell that story on stage and kind of bring everything together.
Jay Menashe: I love it. I think you're well I mean obviously you're an MC, so of you're right on about saying No, but I was thinking as I was prepping for this conversation, I was thinking about these questions like what can I ask to pull the most out? And it's like you never want people to look or feel stupid or feel like they're lost or get lost in thought or also lose the audience because it'll make them even if they don't feel it, it's like, you're just gonna hurt their reputation also. So to have that person to be able to kinda like corral everything or transition the thing or keep the conversation back on track. And I that's it's honestly it's part of why I love doing this is because I know it's gonna make me a better presenter. And I you know, this is not supposed to be about me on this podcast, but it's true. It's like I love these conversations because it's helping me ask better questions. It's helping me start my presentations better because I'm actually thinking through more of like, you know, for the longest time I would just fly into a presentation. It's like, all right, this is what we're doing here. Here's how we're doing. But now I'm start I'm trying to start telling stories as I play because that's often my role as I'm the MC.
Chloe Richardson: No, exactly. And I do think also being an MC is kind of encompassing so many other roles at the same time. You're also kind of production, you're event organizer, but you're a salesperson because you want the audience to believe in the message that you're selling them. And I think that's a really great position to have. also when you have a professional MC that is not necessarily connected to your business. It also adds an extra element of credibility because it's really easy as a CEO of a company to run a conference and say amazing things about the company that you run. And your audience is sitting there, they're listening, but there'll be some skeptics that will be saying, well, of course you're saying this because this is your company, right? Whereas when you've got a neutral external voice telling the message, that's just going to amplify it in a really positive way. So that's another reason, sorry, we're going off on a tangent, but yes, MCs, yay.
Jay Menashe: Yay. MCs, yay. And I think that is the the perfect way to close is say MCs, yay. And but also, you know, your point about salespeople. It's like we're all salespeople and it's a constant message for me. It doesn't matter what your job is, a doctor, a nurse, you know, a teacher, whatever. It's like you're selling something. And as an MC you are selling the presentation and getting people excited. So yeah, no, I agree. You need either a rock star of a presenter that can handle this type of role or bringing in Chloe Richardson. Everybody should reach out to Chloe or get trained by her to be this person. Chloe, you've said it all. Thank you very much for joining me. It's been a pleasure chatting with you, as always.
Chloe Richardson: Thank you so much, Jay.
Jay Menashe: If you walked away with one thing you'll use, we did our job today. Event Experience Experts drops every week. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and check us out on YouTube if you want to watch. I'm Jay Menashe see you next time.
Chloe Richardson: Thanks Jay. Great, deep forward, the Snow Queen thing. I was thinking for a second, what does he mean? And then I remembered, yes, the days of dressing up and singing frozen songs to small children. So yes, thank you for having me Jay. It's an absolute pleasure.
Jay Menashe: of course, of course. I mean, you know, if we're gonna talk about Disney before we start recording, I gotta bring up the Snow Queen Yeah, I was actually doing the deep dive 'cause for one of my questions I wanted to find a specific post I remembered you sharing and I was like I was a year in, I'm like, I'm just gonna stop and we're just gonna figure it out on the fly. That's all right. Yeah. Well so so let me start from the top. You know, you've been in the event industry for a while, you've had a few different roles obviously, like we all have. You know, what would you say you got wrong earlier in your career that completely changed how you approach the work now?
Chloe Richardson: Gosh, I think earlier on, so to your point, I've kind of spanned all of the different segments of the industry. I've spent a lot of time in the trade show space. I've done venue work, corporate events, association. Now I'm heavily, heavily involved in content and I'm seeing measurement and strategy and all of that kind of falls under the overall umbrella of what I've been doing. And I guess. A mistake I probably made earlier on is thinking that I had to make that decision right at the beginning. Because when you're starting out in this industry, I remember I was 19 years old, it was 17 years ago. It was kind of, it just felt like this is, you pigeon hole yourself, I think a little bit. And I became an event manager and that was what I did. And then as I started to try other things and different opportunities became available to me, I started to realize that actually our industry is really small. And you don't have to pick just one thing to be good at. You can actually open yourself up to so many different options and opportunities, which is one of the best things about being in the events industry. And so I'm glad that I learned that pretty early on, but I definitely started out thinking, right, what I'm doing right now, I have to do for the rest of my life. And actually, as we know, Jay, that's not necessarily the case.
Jay Menashe: Yeah. Well, and it can be super overwhelming early in your career be like, this is it. Like I'm four years in and now I have like another thirty years of this. I think out of all the industries there are, it's like to be versatile and to be able to have so many different skill sets, this is the best one to be. I talk about it all the time. It's like that skill of figure it out is there's nothing more necessary than in in the event world.
Chloe Richardson: Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that's why event professionals generally have such transferable skills and can move into any sector in any industry. Because once you've lived through the firefighting and plate spinning world of being an event professional, I mean, there's nothing I don't think that we can't do. And that's sometimes why I think we keep coming back. Because actually, sometimes you step into different roles outside the event world and realize it's less fulfilling and less stressful. we... think, realise we crave a little bit of that stress because it's what gets us through the adrenaline and the excitement. And so we all come back. I think it's hard to leave this world for a long time.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, I left it for nine months and I couldn't like literally two weeks into that job, I'm like, What am I doing? Yeah. And I was only in the industry at that point for about three and a half years. And I remember I was interviewing for a job to get back in the industry and I was at an event and it was WEC with my now wife. And all I wanted to do was get on the trade show floor. I'm like, God, I think I have a pro no, I don't have a problem. I have a passion, which is that's exactly people in our industry, it's like, you know I always say it's like within two to three months, you know if this is for you or you should just Run for the hills.
Chloe Richardson: Mm-hmm. No, so true.
Jay Menashe: So I want to talk a little bit about you as the MC. Well, obviously mostly that is what we're gonna be focusing on. You know when you're the MC or just even a presenter on stage, you're talking to potentially thousands of people, but at the same time, you also want to like connect on an individual level. How do you make sure that you're connecting to like people at that like personal level while you're also talking to this large group?
Chloe Richardson: I think it's probably a mixture of a couple of things. First and foremost, I really like to make sure I know who my audience are before I actually step out on that stage. So that's understanding, first of all, the kind of simple demographic things like where they're from, what roles they sit in, how senior they are, what their challenges are, what their objectives are. But then it's kind of going that one level deeper and saying, what do they expect from this event today? What are they wanting to leave with? What keeps them up at night? So kind of, Getting into that profile of attendee before you walk out on stage is really important because then you can thread that through everything you do, whether it's the introduction, the housekeeping, you can throw in kind of odd little references that might be quite niche, but you know everyone else in the room is gonna understand what you're talking about. So there's that part of it. But then when it comes to the delivery, I think it's about maintaining those small moments of engagement. So when people talk about audience engagement and interaction, they immediately think of Slido or they immediately think of getting people to ask questions to your guests or maybe voting on which way they want the conversation to go. And those things are absolutely important. But I think it's really just about even whilst you're walking, ask kind of rhetorical questions. So say to someone on the front row, isn't that right? Or something like that and get them to feel like they're a part of the experience early on. Because even if it's not real personalization, I don't know that person sat in that chair. But I'm looking at them whilst I'm speaking to them and they feel like we're engaging on a personal level. So it automatically means that not only are they going to feel like they belong in this room, but they also feel like there's some sort of connection between them and the stage. And that's really, really important. So I'd say a combination of the two, how you prep and then how you deliver.
Jay Menashe: I love that. You know, making that eye contact. And there was something you posted about like, you know, passive people are not passionate people. And if you can get that passion out of them and drive that energy up, you're gonna get a better result. How you know, when you're doing the research and figuring out like what people are trying to expect, where are you looking? are you just talking to the organizer? Like where does that come from?
Chloe Richardson: So the organizers are part of it for sure. So in my very first meetings with the organizing team, will ask them to give me a breakdown of their audience. But then I'd like to go one step further and obviously do my own research and whether that be just generally about the industry. I like to look up latest industry research papers and the trends that we're seeing and the challenges that they might be facing. And then this doesn't always happen, but if I would have my way, I would do this every time. And that's actually having kind of a one-to-one chat for 30 minutes. with some of these audience members about two or three months in advance of the show and just explaining to them, this is a little bit of research for me just to make sure I understand what you need to get from your onsite experience. And just taking a small sample of the audience and often times I find the organizer thinks they know everything about the people in the room but that often isn't always the case. And so actually just being in a really safe space and just saying, what is it you want from this? can really change that narrative. And so that's something that I like to do. I don't always have the chance to do it, but in an ideal world, I'd like to be able to do that.
Jay Menashe: How often do you get that kind of access? Because I would think that's like a no-brainer. Like even if it's two or three people, it's like that is like such you know low hanging fruit for them to set.
Chloe Richardson: I'd say 20 % of the time.
Jay Menashe: And is that a function of time or is that a function of like they just are like we can't do that for you?
Chloe Richardson: I think a lot of the time it's the organizer maybe not feeling comfortable about providing that space because they might not know what the person might say. But also it's about, because for a lot of them, excluding the ELX work I do, a lot of my clients, I only work with them on an MC basis and they don't really know me beyond that. So actually some of them could argue, we're letting this random MC loose one-to-one in front of our clients. Who knows what she's going to say? I'm Northern, so who does know what I'm gonna say? Huh, it's all a mystery. But so I'd say about 20 % of the time I get to do it with non-ELX clients. That being said, with ELX events, obviously I know our membership almost like the back of my hand. Sometimes it feels like that and I get to engage with them on a daily basis. So I have the luxury of when I pull together my ELX events and the content around that, I have co-chairs that are involved. in the whole process, they're always members. They are there to be the eyes and ears and opinions of our membership to make sure that what I'm building is relevant and interesting. But then I also have to send my content agendas and the drafts to our advisory committee who are, I think there's 14 of them now, who are all members from different parts of the world, from different industries. And they also have to sign off the agenda to make sure that it's relevant and interesting. So I've got kind of two layers of... sense checking approach that means that by the time it gets to point where I'm saying, right, this is our agenda and this is how I'm going to MC this, I feel really confident that it is exactly the right note for those people that we have in the room.
Jay Menashe: Mm-hmm. No, that makes a lot of sense. And I think having that access, obviously, with the LX is easy. Yes. and everybody that listens to this hopefully will realize it's like, yeah, just give Chloe access. You can trust her. Please. I always I also struggle with that. It's like, you're hiring me. I understand you need to build trust, you need to earn trust. But it's like, but this is what we're here for. Like why wouldn't you give that access?
Chloe Richardson: I think you see it a lot more when the organizer isn't really an event organizer. So you often have people who get thrust into the role of organizing this conference and actually it's not really their day to day. And so it perhaps doesn't feel normal for them to let someone from outside into their world. And I get it. And if it's not right, then that's absolutely fine. What I love as well actually is when they have an easy way to kind of get into their membership or attendees without them really knowing. is if they've got some of their attendees in a panel or in a speaker slot, because then it's really easy for me to offer to do a speaker briefing and then I can get to know them in that way. there are kind of ways around it, but yeah, I genuinely would recommend if there's anything anyone takes away from this part of the conversation, it's let your MCs have access to your audience, because actually it's a win-win, because not only will your audience feel like they're really being listened to and taking into consideration when this event is being planned, but also it means that your MC can deliver a more bespoke and personalized conversation in front of your attendees. So win-win all round, I'd say.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, and on the agency side, I know, you know, we always push for that. It's like, hey, you know, yeah, there's an RFP coming, you have this program, obviously we want to be your partner, but you know, we also want to make sure we like each other before we even dive into this whole thing because chemistry and culture is such an important you know, the amount of times we're on calls and meetings and travel together, it's like, Hey, can we just spend thirty minutes like getting to know each other? How 'bout that?
Chloe Richardson: Mm-hmm. No, it's exactly that. I think, again, to your earlier point, it does take a bit of time, but it's important because you don't want to leave it until the event when you realise actually this wasn't a good match. It's too late. Yeah.
Jay Menashe: That is for sure. Yeah, I trust my gut feeling on those. that's something I have to lean on a lot when it's like, you're giving me all the negative signs. I think it we should just walk away from this. Yeah. Which is hard. Which is hard. So for sure. You know, so you've obviously done this for a while the MC'ing. You know, how do you know when you're up on stage you're just being like, how do you know it's working? And I'm not talking like obviously after the event is over, it's easy to look at it that way, but like when you're in that moment, it's like I need to do something different here.
Chloe Richardson: Well, it's difficult and you know, Jay, that I am a big advocate for robust, tangible metrics. And this is kind of the opposite of that, right? Because I can't immediately in the middle of an introduction be like, right, everyone, can you give me a score out of five for how you feel I'm engaging with you in this particular segment? It just wouldn't work. But there's a few things that I tend to look out for. It's a little bit flowery, so I apologize. But just generally, I think you can feel when there's an energy in the room. Again, eye contact, it's posture, it's body language. But also I think when you're out there, and I did do a post about this, I measure my on stage success often based on how many mobile phones I can see in people's hands. And there have been some events where I've noticed there are more than I would like. And so I immediately shift the energy. I immediately go to a different part of the stage. I start speaking slightly differently because that tends to shake people up and they're like, something's changed. I'm gonna put my phone away. And so it can just be a tiny tweak that makes all the difference. Luckily, I generally work with quite senior audiences and they tend to want to really engage and they're there because they've got two days away from the office and they can finally do something in terms of professional development or network with their peers. So they're not as bad at taking their phones out. But for me, that's a real telltale sign. And sometimes I watch other people's sessions and I can see everyone with their phones out and I think, first of all, I feel really bad for the person on the stage. But then I think, use it, turn it around, like pivot, because you still have the opportunity to land with this audience, because you're in the moment right now. So I think as well, this is something that I say to speakers in particular, don't be too regimented in your planning of what your session is going to look like. because you never know if it is gonna hit or miss with your audience. So be prepared to be able to switch it, even just a tiny bit if it comes to movement or stage placement so that you can get your audience's attention again. So I'd say general kind of atmosphere. If people are laughing at your jokes, sometimes, Jay, people don't laugh at my jokes and I get really upset. And then I think, no, it was a bad joke. It's not because they're not listening to me. So then I just tell a better joke and then we're fine. But then especially with... The language barrier. Sometimes I tell very English jokes and I just see a sea of North American faces staring back at me. And then I'll have someone in my ear saying, Chloe, we don't use that word in the US. I'm like, okay, moving on. So I haven't obviously done my homework very well in terms of understanding my audience in that case. But yeah, no, phones for me has to be kind of that key metric of whether the audience are engaged in the moment or not.
Jay Menashe: No, I think that's really good metric. I you gave me a little anxiety when, like, yeah, just switch up your presentation on the fly. It's like Chloe, let me tell you when I have a presentation, I rehearse my presentation, I am ready to go. I'm like but yeah, not switch.
Chloe Richardson: No, it's not actually the I don't think it's the content you need to change. Again, it's just how you're presenting it. So even if you change the cadence of how you speak. So, for example, I speak very quickly. You'll find especially this interview is a great example. I have been talking quite rapidly as we've been having this conversation, Jay. But if I take a step back and all of a sudden I'm speaking slowly and with real intention, everyone in the room. is going to start paying attention. And that slight shift can really make all the difference. So please don't deviate from your PowerPoint presentation. I don't want to throw you off completely, but just think of different ways that you can perhaps say those things or slowing it down or speeding it up or kind of really getting excited about it because people do tune into that.
Jay Menashe: Yeah, for me it's like I need people to have energy when they're presenting, otherwise I am gonna be like I'll just lose interest or I'll lose fo it's not even losing interest, it's like I lose focus. And I think that's it's a modern problem. I'm not obviously alone and it's like I just pick up my phone out of habit because it's the new you know, it's the new cigarette, it's a digital cigarette is what I usually refer to it as. And I often get this at home, it's like, What are you doing? I'm like, I don't know. I just picked it up. I don't know.
Chloe Richardson: Just habit, isn't it? Just like a blanket, like a comfort blanket.
Jay Menashe: So I was gonna say, for me, it's like it takes like a split second for me to be like, I'm not interested in this anymore. And I could I just pick up my phone. And but it's not even true. It's just like a mental, like, and that's where I think the addiction comes in, where it's like, no, I just I feel the need I need to look at this thing every five seconds, unfortunately. Which is also why my little vacation this past week and a half was amazing, because I had no cell signal, I had no Wi-Fi. but feeling that energy, and I love it's basically your it's like a context change of what you were talking. And that's what I really loved about your answer. It's like you're not changing the actual content of what you're presenting. It's more whether you're speeding up your speak or you're slowing it down or you're jumping around, but it's like doing something surprising to re-engage people. And I really like that point.
Chloe Richardson: Yeah, and it's something I talk to a lot of my speakers about because what I think we forget as well, so many of our speakers, they're not professional speakers, they're thought leaders in their area of expertise. And they don't do this for a living, especially if they're sponsor speakers, or you might have somebody internally from the C-suite who's up on the stage. And so I say that to them, I say use your movement and almost captivate the audience by not standing still ever and keep shifting. their heads and their eyes. And that's the kind of thing that you need to keep them engaged throughout, especially if it's a slightly less interesting topic.
Jay Menashe: Yeah. it's also how you start the presentation, I think, sets the stage for all of that because so often and god, I'm forgetting the name of the book, but it's like you know, when you start talking about logistics, like hey, turn your phones off doing versus like just jumping in and getting people excited and like that in itself, it's like you're setting the stage for like, I'm already bored by this, please just get into it.
Chloe Richardson: Yeah, and actually it's interesting you say that, because this is something that I've been preaching quite a lot lately, and it's that if you're starting with your housekeeping, then it's just going to fall flat. And what you've got is to make an event memorable, you want to lean into your primary and recency bias. And so that means that the beginning and the end matters more than anything else. And so now when I'm on stage, I don't introduce myself until kind of the third paragraph in, because I want to set the stage a bit. I want to open with a story or a bold statement or a thought provoking question so that people kind of take us like a step back and think, who is this person? And then you go, and I'm Chloe Richardson and welcome to today's blah, blah, blah, blah. And at that point they're in, right? They're locked in for the ride. So yeah, I totally agree with you. I think it's really important. And there's a framework that I like to use in my public speaking training in particular, which is all about first impressions. And I think you said you make your first impression very quickly when you're sat there in the audience and you... decide it's not interesting or not for you, so you might pull your phone out. But there's something called the three, 10, 30 rule that I like to use. And that's that when you're sat in the audience, in the first three seconds, people obviously notice your appearance, okay? In the first 10 seconds, they form an impression from your body language and your presence. And in the first 30 seconds, they decide whether or not what you're about to lead them into is gonna be interesting to them or not. So if you haven't made them interested in that first 30 seconds, it's unlikely you're gonna be able to get them fully back on board. Now you can, like I said, use movements to kind of bring them back a little bit, but that first 30 seconds is so important. Cause I think, is it the old adage we say, takes seven seconds to make a first impression, I think is what we say. But actually it's really as a speaker and as an MC, it's that first 30 where you're convincing the people in the room that what you're about to tell them is something that they want to listen to.
Jay Menashe: No, that's a great framework. And I think, you know, I we always hear, don't judge a book by its cover, but the reality is we all judge books by their covers. And every presentation, every person you meet, it's like within those few seconds or thirty seconds, it's like, yeah, I've already made my judgment on you. let's get it together or I'm moving on with my life.
Chloe Richardson: No, absolutely right. And I would love to live in a world where we don't make judgments, but unfortunately it's human nature. And so you just want to engage them right from the beginning and really enwrap to them and get their attention.
Jay Menashe: Well and the reality is most people they trust their guts, they trust their instincts and it's like, Yeah, I'm not supposed to judge this but it's like, Hey, I've been living this life for a long time. I'm gonna trust that I've already done this before. and I didn't like it.
Chloe Richardson: Yeah, for sure.
Jay Menashe: So you've done some pretty cool presentations where it's like whether it's the location you do it from or just doing something different, you know, what does a client or a stakeholder have to believe, you know, before they gave you that kind of latitude? And this is the one I was looking for the post, because there was one you were posting it, it was from a trade show or a conference and you were like on some kind of bridge that you were presenting from. And it was very and that was the one I was trying to find it, but I was like, you know what, I remember it enough. But yeah, how do you get people to like just trust you to like she's gonna do it? We just know it's gonna work out great.
Chloe Richardson: So full disclosure, I would say about 25 % of the time, the design for that type of presentation format is already there because the organizer has decided that's what it's gonna be. And that's when you know you're working with someone who's from the experiential space because they really care about doing something different and fresh and new to engage their audiences and to offer their audiences something unique, which I love, which makes my job a little easier. And I do find particularly when I'm doing events in industries that are perhaps renowned to not be as creative, it tends to be reflected in how their organizer works because they don't want to take the risk. And so it ends up always being a pitch for me, really. So I tend to go and so I'll in most cases, and we're talking again, excluding ELX, I'll be presented with here's your audience, here's the event. dates, times, logistics, that kind of thing. We want you to come up with some content formats for session two, four and seven, go away and come back to us. And I always have to pitch it and I have to give them a real reason why this is good for them to do. So it's about not only obviously it will engage their audiences, but it will leave their audiences with a better impression of the brand, or perhaps it will... mean that their audiences are more likely to come back the following year because of the different experience they've had. And I really try and push people away from this kind of three-person panel format on rinse and repeat. I can't stand it. I don't hate panels, but there are so many ways that we can do them differently. And so it's just constantly reminding people, organizers in particular, that your audiences in 2026 have so many different events that they could go to. Why are they gonna come to yours? And they're not gonna come to yours if they're gonna see the same thing that they've been seeing for the last 20 years. So why don't we do something a bit different to make sure they come back? And I think that's really the pitch that I try and put in front of people because from an MC or content architect perspective as well, like it's so much more fun for me to be able to do something different because fireside chats can be really great. depending on the person you're interviewing, but doing five or six of them in one conference, it's not only boring for the audience, it's boring for me. And you get to the end of the day and you kind of feel like you're on autopilot because you're asking the same questions again and again. And no matter how much you try, unfortunately, you can't always make a fireside chat really fun. So there are very easy ways that you can spice it up with panels. You can kind of put everyone in three different corners of the stage and have them always like. you versus you versus you kind of format, or you can get them coming on one by one, or you've probably seen there's some conferences who now have the stage in the middle and it's circular and they have each panelist kind of facing in or facing out. You could have a panelist come up, present a use case and the audience vote on whether it's something that they might use or not. And then the next panelist comes up. So there are so many different ways of presenting multiple people on stage in one session. We don't just have to sit in three chairs and kind of ask questions and all agree with one another for that to work.
Jay Menashe: Yeah. I mean people can only sit there for so long and just listen and be talked at. They wanna be in involved in something. They wanna talk to somebody themselves.
Chloe Richardson: That's it. And a lot of people say content is king. And I actually did do a piece on this recently where I said it's not content, it's contribution that is king. Because the more we expect our audiences to sit there and watch us like a TV show, the more they are probably going to next time stay at home and just watch a TV show. Because actually we're not as entertaining as HBO, right? And none of us are good. We don't have the budgets to put on a full Game of Thrones performance on the stage. So actually what's gonna get them to come back and that's to make them feel like their opinion matters, like their voice counts, like we wanna hear their ideas as well as sharing some of our own. And I find the best content agendas bring those two things together. So it's all about collaboration and contribution from the audience, especially when you have a senior audience because they've got such a wealth of experience. Why would you not tap into their expertise as well to make your content even better? That is really for me what makes an event unique is how you bring in the audience, how you get them along for the journey and how you make them leave feeling like, not only did I learn, but I gave back. Because we're humans and being seen is probably one of the most valuable things that we can take away with us. So let's make our audiences feel seen by involving them in the conversation.
Jay Menashe: No, that's very well said. I think yeah, there's so many times where you just sit there for eight hours like what did I just do with my day?
Chloe Richardson: And you know, it's ironic really, because being in the content space, I should be better at sitting through other content, but I really struggle. And I think I'm like you, I kind of get, I decide very quickly that I'm maybe not engaging with this, but also a lot of the time it's not a conscious decision. I'm trying really hard and I just find my mind wandering. And so I have found often that I am designing events that would hopefully keep someone like me engaged. And that's kind of where a lot of it comes from. It's how would someone who's easily distracted feel in this room during this session? so I try and put that into everything I do, but I, we have, we had a speaker for a couple of ELX events called Richard Newman and I booked him again because for the first time in my life, I sat through a 90 minute session and I didn't want to leave. I had to go to the bathroom, but I was like, no, I'm going to wait till the break because I was so engaged. And so it taught me it's not that I'm terrible at listening for a long period of time. It's just that it needs to be delivered in a way that brings me into it. And he did a really great job of that. And there are other speakers and MCs that are also really good at it. And so I try and kind of represent that too in the way that I do my events.
Jay Menashe: Alright, it makes a lot of sense. If it resonates with you, it's likely gonna resonate with other people. And I'm very similar. there's very certain types of presenters where it's like I'm just so out so quickly and then others where it's like, How do I get more of this type of content in my life? Mm-hmm. All right. Final question for you. Yes. so we've been doing this for a long time and you know, if there's one thing you could redesign about how brands approach live events from scratch, what would it be?
Chloe Richardson: Ooh. Can I answer with an MC based answer? that?
Jay Menashe: Yeah, that's what the topic of the conversation is.
Chloe Richardson: Great, great. Because I think actually there are so many brands who don't bring in a professional MC and who either rely on an internal member of the team or have loads of different people kind of slotting in where it matters. And I find that's really detrimental to the story because in order for us to have that continuous narrative throughout an event, which we should, it should not be loads of different sessions just put together. It should be an experience and a journey for the audience. In order to deliver something like that, that really connects and really resonates, you have to have somebody leading that ship. And sometimes I speak to organizers and brands and they say, no, we don't bring in a professional MC, we just get someone to do it internally. And I'm thinking, that's such a miss because the... the that it changes the journey for your audience, again, will not only increase brand perception, but it will keep them coming back year on year. And so I would implore everyone out there to just have a think and think, is it worth us bringing in somebody who can be that storyteller, who can hold everything together, be the glue? But that's not all MCs do. We also support the speakers. If a speaker's having a moment where perhaps they forget what they're saying or they start to go off track, your MC is there to bring it all back. And without someone in that role, I would say you're open to a lot of risk, which we don't want to be, right? We don't want to put ourselves in that position. So I would just say from the beginning, you need to bring in a storyteller that's going to help you tell that story on stage and kind of bring everything together.
Jay Menashe: I love it. I think you're well I mean obviously you're an MC, so of you're right on about saying No, but I was thinking as I was prepping for this conversation, I was thinking about these questions like what can I ask to pull the most out? And it's like you never want people to look or feel stupid or feel like they're lost or get lost in thought or also lose the audience because it'll make them even if they don't feel it, it's like, you're just gonna hurt their reputation also. So to have that person to be able to kinda like corral everything or transition the thing or keep the conversation back on track. And I that's it's honestly it's part of why I love doing this is because I know it's gonna make me a better presenter. And I you know, this is not supposed to be about me on this podcast, but it's true. It's like I love these conversations because it's helping me ask better questions. It's helping me start my presentations better because I'm actually thinking through more of like, you know, for the longest time I would just fly into a presentation. It's like, all right, this is what we're doing here. Here's how we're doing. But now I'm start I'm trying to start telling stories as I play because that's often my role as I'm the MC.
Chloe Richardson: No, exactly. And I do think also being an MC is kind of encompassing so many other roles at the same time. You're also kind of production, you're event organizer, but you're a salesperson because you want the audience to believe in the message that you're selling them. And I think that's a really great position to have. also when you have a professional MC that is not necessarily connected to your business. It also adds an extra element of credibility because it's really easy as a CEO of a company to run a conference and say amazing things about the company that you run. And your audience is sitting there, they're listening, but there'll be some skeptics that will be saying, well, of course you're saying this because this is your company, right? Whereas when you've got a neutral external voice telling the message, that's just going to amplify it in a really positive way. So that's another reason, sorry, we're going off on a tangent, but yes, MCs, yay.
Jay Menashe: Yay. MCs, yay. And I think that is the the perfect way to close is say MCs, yay. And but also, you know, your point about salespeople. It's like we're all salespeople and it's a constant message for me. It doesn't matter what your job is, a doctor, a nurse, you know, a teacher, whatever. It's like you're selling something. And as an MC you are selling the presentation and getting people excited. So yeah, no, I agree. You need either a rock star of a presenter that can handle this type of role or bringing in Chloe Richardson. Everybody should reach out to Chloe or get trained by her to be this person. Chloe, you've said it all. Thank you very much for joining me. It's been a pleasure chatting with you, as always.
Chloe Richardson: Thank you so much, Jay.
Jay Menashe: If you walked away with one thing you'll use, we did our job today. Event Experience Experts drops every week. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and check us out on YouTube if you want to watch. I'm Jay Menashe see you next time.
