Between 2 Urns - Brian Oake

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Some conversations are too interesting to stay buried.
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Between two urns is where history meets humanity.
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Each episode digs up the stories, legacies, and lingering questions we leave behind.
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This interview-driven podcast brings you candid conversations with people whose lives, work, and passions that shape the stories we carry forward in Ramsey County.
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From artists and educators to community leaders and unexpected voices, we explore what drives us, challenges us, and ultimately connects us.
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Blending humor, honesty, and curiosity about the past and present between two urns proves that history isn't just something we inherit, it's something we live.
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Pull up a chair, the conversation is just getting started.
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With over twenty-five years behind the mic, Brian has helped shape how generations of listeners discover music, spinning records and telling stories at Radio K, Rev 105, Drive 105, Cities 97, and the Current.
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Known for his deep knowledge, and also his deep voice, sharp wit, and a genuine love for artists, he's been a constant thread in the region's creative community.
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In this episode, we talk about the evolution of radio, the heartbeat of local music, and the moments that made a career dedicated to sound.
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Hi, Brian Oak.
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Hi, you of Ang.
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Thank you for being here today.
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Yeah, it's my pleasure.
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Genuinely, I enjoy your company, so I'm looking forward to this.
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So tell us your bio.
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What's your elevator?
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My name is Brian Oak.
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I grew up in Coon Rapids, Minnesota, so I'm a northern suburbs kid.
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Moved to Minneapolis when I was 18, and I've lived in Minneapolis ever since.
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I'm now 57 years old.
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I am a divorced father of one.
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My daughter is a grown woman.
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She's 26.
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She'll be 27 in just a matter of days here.
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I am a 30-year radio veteran of the Twin Cities on Air radio broadcasting community.
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Did drive time, either morning drive or afternoon drive, for 30 years.
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And, you know, there I like anybody's career and any industry, there are ups and downs, radio being more dynamic than most.
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Um so you know, you bounce around a lot, but I was really, really fortunate to be able to stay in the same market uh for 30 years.
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You know, normally you've got to move wherever the gigs are in radio, so very fortunate in that regard.
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And these days I am uh living on my own, moved back to Uptown for the first time since the 80s, and um I uh do a podcast, the Brian Oak Show podcast, and I work part-time at a record store.
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And so I'm not making speedboat money, but I'm you're making yacht money.
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Not quite, not quite.
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Um, but I am at this age kind of rediscovering who Brian is, you know, between divorce and sobriety and all these other things that have come into play.
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It's interesting.
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I'm learning about myself again, and I'm finding out what 57-year-old Brian is like instead of young man Brian.
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Uh and it's interesting.
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It's a super fun journey.
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I'm I'm very happy right now in the name with what I've put together for my life in terms of employment and the things I I'm not doing anything I don't want to do, and it feels really good, you uh.
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It feels really good.
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Good.
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I feel like the older I get, the more I can be like, no, I'm good.
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You know, you just I mean, A, the the wonderful thing about not caring as much about what the rest of the world thinks, that's very liberating.
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But also you finally, you know, you you have the experience.
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You have the you've put the hours in, you've done the reps, right?
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And so you know what serves you and what doesn't, and it gets easier to make those decisions and and to make sure that you're serving that important part of yourself as you get older.
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So I don't think I know how you got started in radio.
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Can you share that story?
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I can.
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Um, my voice dropped when I was very young, probably 10, 11 years old, well before puberty kicked in.
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Was it this deep at 10?
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Not quite this deep, but it was very deep for a 10-year-old.
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And people would call the house and think I was my dad.
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And then at a certain point it got this deep, and everybody, I mean everybody would say, Yeah, I had no designs of being on the radio.
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I love the radio, loved listening to it, but that everybody would say, My God, you got that great voice.
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You got a voice for radio, you got to do radio.
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And it got said to me so often that I genuinely do not know, did I decide to do radio or was I just sort of coerced into it?
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Uh, but either way, I went to college at Winona State uh for one year, and I worked at KQAL down there.
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I was the music director on my freshman year.
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My first experience on the radio, but to me it was just sort of a lark at that point.
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I didn't think this is what I'm doing for a living.
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I didn't honestly believe I could do it for a living.
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Um I thought, well, college radio, that's fun to do because you know, get I love I was always a music head.
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And so getting to play cool music on the radio and make everyone listen to my opinions and jabber about it, it was pretty great.
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But I I didn't assume it was anything you could do for a living.
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I thought you had to be like a I don't know, like an old school Hollywood entertainer type, right?
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Like just and I I'm like, I can't just go on there and be myself.
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Uh so years later, I had not done anything in radio for like the next seven, eight years.
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I worked in the nonprofit community for the Clean Water Action Alliance on their fundraising wing for lobbying and other work they do around the state.
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And at that time I started going back to school briefly, and I went to the U of M.
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And it was WMMR before it was Radio K.
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So I started working there, and that was, you know, we all have to kind of grind and put in the hours early on in anything that we do.
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And I had a Sunday morning at 6 a.m.
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shift, and I was 23 years old.
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And there would be times because at the time WMMR was only on FM cable.
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Okay.
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Nobody knows what that is, Yua.
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Uh and it all it went to the dorms.
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And how many people in the dorms at 6 a.m.
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on a Sunday morning were listening to me do my thing?
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Yeah.
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So I would routinely do giveaways like, all right, I'll take caller seven right now on whatever the studio line was, and the phone wouldn't ring once.
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And I'm like, all right, well, this is good practice, and I'm getting to sit here and play music, and I love it.
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Um, worked there, and then eventually that turned into Radio K.
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I auditioned for the morning show, got that.
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So it was Sharon and I doing a show called Morning Breath.
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Um we liked it too.
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We liked it.
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And then uh I'd been doing that for about nine months, and I got a call from Kevin Cole, who I knew as a very popular local DJ influencer before the internet.
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You know, he was the music guy in town, and he was the cool DJ in town, did the Raves depth probe, and was First Avenue's like sort of celebrity DJ at the time.
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He got roped in with some people, the Cargills, and there was money, and suddenly there was a cool radio station.
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He called me out of the blue one day.
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I'd never met him, and he said, Hey, do you want to do radio?
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And I was like, What do you mean?
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He's like, You want to come and do the morning show?
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We're launching a radio station.
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And it again, it didn't seem like the real world to me.
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Like at the time, I was I, you know, I had no responsibilities.
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I was in my young 20s.
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I was making 25 grand a year, and it was more money than I knew what to do with.
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Right.
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And they offered me this job, and I thought, well, okay, but I is it really like this?
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And I knew I didn't, I knew it wasn't going to be a long-term thing.
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I just figured, okay, well, we'll do this till we don't do it anymore.
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And when you're young, you make those kind of decisions, right?
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Wait, what did you go to school for at U of M?
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The U of M, nothing.
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I was I only I really only went back because the radio bug was always somewhere in the back of my head.
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Okay.
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And you had to be a student at the U of M in order to work at the radio station.
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So I was taking extension courses and kind of half going.
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In my head, I told myself I was following my minor in Japanese studies.
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Um I did.
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Well, I took Japanese and I was actually very diligent about it for a little while.
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But it was such a deeply immersive course.
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Five days a week, there was one hour, a one-hour thing where they said hello on their very first day, introduced everyone in the class, and never spoke another word of English again.
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So you had to be there every day.
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And you're, you know, you're working with little kids' workbooks and stuff, but you're learning the kanji in a brand new language.
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And then there was also two nights a week, there were these big two and a half hour English language things to cover what you'd been learning.
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And so it was a very time-intensive and and uh and text-intensive course.
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And um I missed a couple days, and by the time I went back, I was so far behind that I gave up.
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But that's kind of the story of my academic life.
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I was smart but not studious.
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And um uh but anyway, so I went back there and uh yeah, I went over and um they offered me a job and I was so uh utterly gobsmacked that I could do radio for a living.
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Okay.
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They offered me money and I was not aware that the game worked, that they're gonna make an offer that they don't they expect to be far too low.
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Oh, sure.
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Then I come back, then we sort of meet somewhere in the middle.
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They said we'll give you 175.
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And I said yes.
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17,000 a year?
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Yes, 17,500.
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And this would have been 1993, 94.
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So again, it was uh it was not enough money to be doing what I was doing, but I didn't know and I didn't have any perspective, and I was literally gonna do the thing that I wanted to do for a living at that point more than anything else.
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And so I just I decided to ride the wave, but yeah, I took a$8,000 a year pay cut to uh to go from a nonprofit to doing um a starting in morning radio, but it was the right decision.
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It was 30 years of um of a job that I really, really enjoyed.
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Yeah.
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I actually thought about you just the other day because it was raining and I was driving, and I'm like, oh, I should turn on my windshield wipers because I used to listen to you on Cities 97 and you were on the afternoon show, and you'd always say, Turn on your windshield wipers.
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It's raining.
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If the rule is Oh, sorry, that's what I meant.
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Turn on your headlights when you're if your windshield wipers are on, your headlights should be on.
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It should be on.
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If there's inclement weather and it's startling in the winter, it's white cars.
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In a rainstorm, it's slate gray and silver cars that disappear into the road that never have their lights on.
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It makes me insane.
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And people are like, well, now they're automatic, and I I don't, you know, I they just turn on and off on their own.
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I'm like, there's literally a switch.
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It's it's right next to your turn signal, it's right there.
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Just click it forward or click it back.
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And so, yes, I do and still continue to get a little worked up about that.
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Maybe a little less feisty than I used to.
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No, that's sorry, that's what I meant.
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Turn on your lights if your windshield wipers off.
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I just because I think it's the state law that if your windshield wipers are on, you have or you have to have your lights on.
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You have to.
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It makes me crazy.
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Uh I thought of you.
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Well, I'm uh then see, I've left a mark.
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You left a mark.
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Somehow that makes the mission all worthwhile.
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So the first time I heard your voice on air, I I'm younger than you, obviously.
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Yes, you are.
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But um I don't know about it.
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Obviously, you are, but yes, you are.
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But uh you were on the edge because the edge was this alternative radio station that I started listening to, and then you migrated over to there before it turned to Cities 97.
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The Edge never turned to Cities 97.
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93x, sorry.
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93x, exactly.
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So at the time, the whole time I worked at Rev, I was the morning guy there for three years.
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The we were the little sort of scrappy DIY punk rock version of alternative radio, whereas the Edge was owned by Disney, ABC.
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They were the mouse, they were the big evil corporate entity that couldn't be as cool, and they were way too commercial.
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And so for them, we were never any real threat, but they also didn't like having us around, and they were still very much in that old school mentality of you're not anybody's friend in radio, we're all competing for the same listener.
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And so there was a lot of weird back and forth there.
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So then the telecommunications bill got signed in 96, and suddenly individuals or companies could own as many radio stations or newspaper outlets or TV stations as they want.
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So it's a monopoly.
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So well, you saw this basically a land grab because that had all been broken up with, you know, trespusting.
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And now you see this massive land grab.
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So companies like Cumulus, like Clear Channel, like ABC Disney scoop up all these broadcasting outlets because the margins were so good, and they're like, all right, we're going deep into debt now, literally billions of dollars.
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And because they thought, well, we're gonna make all this back and tenfold, a hundredfold.
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So that got signed.
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So once Rev 105 never made a dime, it lost money every year, but they had a very wealthy benefactor in Jim Cargill, and he just got tired of losing money.
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And after a three-year run, he sold to ABC Disney.
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They offered him you know more money because stations were going for far higher than market value.
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He ended up making money on a station that never made him a dime.
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I mean, I there's a reason billionaires are billionaires, right?
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Um, but as a result, then suddenly Rev is gone.
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And we were all they had made it to X-105.
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It was this metal station, and they offered to let us stay, and I did just because I didn't know what I was gonna do next.
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So I wasn't talking at all, but I'm basically a glorified board op at this point.
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And one day I'm like, I'm gonna quit.
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And they said that the the boss there said, Well, come in the totally new administration, said, Come and talk to me when you're done with this shift.
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And they're like, Would you ever want to work at the edge?
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And now working at Rev, it was kind of like a radio tree fort, right?
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It was cool, it was indie, it was underground.
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It wasn't like the business, it wasn't official, even though it was in retrospect.
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But to be invited to go work on a hundred thousand watt station with all the bells and whistles, all the promotional dollars, huge sales staff, the whole bit was kind of daunting.
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And I was excited because I liked doing it.
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And I was called a sellout, a Judas, a traitor because I went and worked for the competition.
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You know, there's no social media at that time, so no, but the phone calls and the faxes.
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Seriously, oh no, angry faxes.
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Really?
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It sounds cartoonish to say it out loud, but there were many.
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Uh-huh.
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Just angry.
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Um, and I'm like, well, I I can't sell out of something that's gone, and I did get paid more to go to the edge, but that's because they paid people what they were their market value.
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But it's not like I'd abandoned Rev.
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I loved Rev.
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But it suddenly went away.
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The guy, if you're mad at somebody, be mad at the guy who sold it.
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So I did.
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I went over to the edge that summer.
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They were in the process of shedding staff because they were getting ready to switch over to 93X, which still exists to this day.
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And so I was suddenly the overnight fill-in guy, then the midday fill-in guy.
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Then the every time they moved off one of their big names, I was the fill-in.
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And then at the end of that summer, summer of 97, they flipped it over, and then I went on to the 105s for the next four years, uh, still working with Steve Nelson.
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But then that's where Mary Lucia and I, even though we both worked at Rev 105, the only time everyone always says, Man, I loved your and Mary's morning show at Rev 105.
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I'm like, that never happened.
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She worked at night, I worked in the morning.
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The first time we ever like worked together on the same sh slot, the same shift was at Zone.
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Uh it was the year 2000, and we worked for about a year and a half together before once again they decided to flip formats and we got shunted.
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So, yeah, the edge.
00:14:54.480 --> 00:15:00.799
That was my first introduction to a lot of people because Rev was very small and had a very, very specific selective appeal.
00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:01.360
Right.
00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:07.519
So, what do you feel moving around to so many new spaces has taught you?
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:12.000
Well, I believed this in life before it just got reinforced in radio.
00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:14.720
You don't ever burn any bridges, right?
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:22.399
Because now, with 30 years of history, if you're gonna be in one market for that time, there's no way you can't get to know everybody.
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:27.759
And although there's constant turnover, there's a lot of mainstays, there are a lot of other people who have moved companies.
00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:33.440
The producer and on my podcast and good friend Sean Bernard, we work together at a couple different stations.
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:40.879
You get to know everyone, and I don't think it's ever a good look, although, you know, any kind of media is gonna have characters, right?
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:48.159
And people who are a little abrasive, a little unpredictable, and some of them really drink their own Kool-Aid and believe that they're stars, and this is amazing.
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:48.399
Right.
00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:54.559
And even if you're a great entertainer, I just I don't think it's ever a good look to be a self-obsessed jerk.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:16:00.240
And so, you know, don't burn any bridges because you may be riding high right now, but that will change.
00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:08.159
Everything is a cycle in radio and really in life, and you will have downs and you will need to look to other places, you will need to go to work other places.
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:18.159
And, you know, if your reputation is that you're a good soldier, you know what you're doing, you're you're good at your job, uh, and you know to work with people, I think that serves you like a you know in anything.
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:26.240
But radio in particular, because it's such a little echo chamber of itself, well, and there's a few little people that do work in it.
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:28.480
The talent that does work in radio is small.
00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:35.120
And only smaller now because that's an industry that's contracting, which is why I haven't been really busting my hump to try to get back into it.
00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:53.440
The other thing that it's taught me, uh, you know, moving around that much is because sometimes, you know, oh, I'm going to work for a country station, and that's fine, you know, but then maybe they want me to put a little twang on the voice or wear a cowboy hat, or sometimes it requires a different persona if you're gonna adequately sell the product and the brand and the name.
00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.960
I've always had the privilege of being myself.
00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:04.880
I never had to try to use a certain vernacular or be anything other than how I am in regular day-to-day conversation.
00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:06.559
And I hear you're a cowboy twang.
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:08.160
I don't have one, thank God.
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:10.240
And I luckily I never got offered a job.
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:18.400
But I had friends, you know, because I got I had the privilege, but also kind of a little bit of the curse of working at the coolest radio station ever, is my very first radio job.
00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:23.279
Rev 105 is revered, even though its legend has grown a little bigger than it actually was.
00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:25.200
But it was great, but it was cool.
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:29.200
But if you start out with the cool kids, then if you go to work for the edge, you're a sellout.
00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:33.279
Or and I just wanted to do this for a living and I saw an opportunity and I took it.
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:36.880
I have zero regrets about going to the edge because Rev was gone.
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:37.200
Yeah.
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.279
It wasn't that there was nothing I could do about it.
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:40.720
You can't walk up anymore.
00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:41.680
And so the same thing.
00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:47.839
Like if my only gig was a country station, it meant I didn't have to leave town and I could stay with all my friends and family.
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:49.759
I'd go work at a country station.
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:59.759
But luckily I never had to, so I never brushed up on that twang, you uh one thing that I feel about because I've had a few different jobs and career changes in my life.
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:04.240
I've just learned to hold things with a loose grip.
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:05.359
Because I'm like, you know what?
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:08.079
I appreciate it while it's here, but it's gone.
00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:09.680
You know, I have to move on.
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:11.680
My mentality has changed.
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:16.480
I've changed, you know, and I I'm become better at accepting it.
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:20.720
And sometimes people will bring it up and you're just like, great, that was a different time in my life.
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:25.599
Yeah, and again, I don't have I loved I've loved my time in radio, and I don't miss it at all.
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:45.119
But, you know, given the sort of seismic changes that have happened in my life in the last couple of years, uh, from health to relationships to employment to all of that, I wouldn't say that I've like had a spiritual awakening, but I certain principles and day-to-day uh attitudes have absolutely moved to the forefront.
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:53.359
And one of them is very much, and again, it sounds cliche, and I'm gonna say it like a four-year-old would say it, but the the old Ramdos ideal of be here now.
00:18:53.519 --> 00:19:00.559
Like the past is always gonna inform you, but there is zero sense in carrying those rocks with you because they're only gonna make today heavier.
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.039
You just you gotta set them down and let them sit there.
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:08.640
You can look at them whenever you want, but you can't carry them around, you can't live in that, and it can't define who you are.
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:13.359
And tomorrow, you didn't know everything that happened today when you went to bed last night.
00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:17.680
There's just there's no way sometimes it's little things, other times it's the craziest day ever.
00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:19.200
And so you can't live in tomorrow.
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:21.039
You really have to live in it right now.
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:27.200
And if I'm happy today and I can sleep well tonight and and I feel good today, yeah, it's the only time there is.
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:28.400
You can only live right now.
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:35.759
And so it's um that has been something that is both through radio but a lot of other factors, has really moved to the forefront.
00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:42.559
And I also think that being through some of the challenges I've been through in the last couple of years, I always believe in the golden rule.
00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:51.279
I'm not a deeply religious guy, but I do for some reason still, even without the threat of eternal punishment, know that it's the right thing to do to be decent to people.
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:51.680
Yes.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:52.880
The golden rule.
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:56.880
I've always tried to live my life by it, but it's become even more of an important principle.
00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:00.480
I try to treat everybody exactly the way I would like to be treated.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:05.279
I try to give people what I would like from them, and I think that that serves you more often than it doesn't.
00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:11.200
There's always going to be jerks, there's always gonna be people to take advantage, but that doesn't give you the right to not keep trying.
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:11.680
You have to.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:18.960
If you're trying to make your life, the world, whatever, a better version of itself, then it's incumbent on you to do your part of it.
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:20.799
And I asked about your podcast.
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:21.359
Anything.
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:23.440
Okay, so tell me how did that get started?
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:25.440
So it's the Brian Oak Show podcast.
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:28.079
It started, we're coming up on our sixth anniversary.
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:34.799
Uh at the time, I had been fired from the current, and I was out of radio for a while, and I was cool.
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:37.920
I've been fired from stations before, Rev, Zone.
00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:39.119
That's the nature of the movie.
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:45.680
The very public and a little gruesome, and not even vaguely swathed in the truth.
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:50.079
But I'm not here to I'm I've I've really again that's one of those stones I've set down.
00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:52.240
I I can't stay bitter about that.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:53.039
It sucks.
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:59.440
Lost my dream job, but being bitter about it today is not going to improve anything about my current situation.
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.160
So I'm not perfect at it, but I'm getting better at it.
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:14.960
But the podcast, uh, my good buddy Sean Bernard, uh, who I'd always gotten along with very well, he has done on air and radio, but his career is similar to mine in that he's worked a ton of different places, although he moved around more than I did.
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:17.519
But his career was predominantly sales oriented.
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:20.240
And so I worked with him at a couple different radio stations.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:21.279
He reached out to me.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:25.039
He had dabbled in podcasting, and after I got fired, he reached out to me.
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:29.440
It was a little ways, about the same time that you sent me that lovely needle point that you sent me.
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:31.920
I see it in almost every picture that you post.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.920
So it's in my studio, it's in the Smart Start MN studio for the podcast.
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.000
It's right behind my head because it matters.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:44.559
You sent me that needle point that said, Never give up on your stupid, stupid dreams at a pretty low ebb for me.
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:45.920
So it was very lovely to get that.
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:50.400
But Sean reached out to me during that same time and he said, Do you want to do a podcast?
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:55.279
And at the time, I podcasting was already blowing up, it was already a very crowded space six years ago.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:57.920
So we're already this one's already a little bit behind.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.759
Well, you know, we would, but there's no way.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:12.240
To go back and you know, you and so now the difference is now with the volume that's out there, you just have to make sure it's good, it has to be interesting, it has to draw people to it in order to separate itself from the background noise at all.
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:19.759
But the Brian Oak Show podcast, he reached out, and at the time I didn't really much like when I worked in radio, I barely listened to radio.
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:24.480
I I do it, and so I don't really, I'm not one of those guys who's always scouring what the enemy's up to.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:32.640
And so with podcasting, I'm like, well, if I go home, I or I'm in the car, I listen to talk radio because I like KFAN, even though I'm not a sports guy.
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.359
And if I'm at home, I put music on.
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:38.400
And so I never ever bothered listening to podcasts.
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:42.480
So I'd heard, I think, literally two episodes of any podcast ever at that point.
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:44.400
And Sean's like, You want to do a podcast?
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:45.279
I'm like, sure.
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.559
I just yeah, I didn't I had literally no idea what it entailed.
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.519
I just knew that it was stuff that I was already given to.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:55.119
I'll be interviewing people, there'll be music involved, it's gonna be great.
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.200
But I thought it was, you know, this was gonna be one of those sort of diversionary things, right?
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:02.480
Like it wasn't gonna become the main way I earn a living.
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:03.839
I just thought, we'll give it a shot.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:05.680
And so he's like, Well, how many do you want to do?
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.559
And again, not listening to podcasts, I had no idea.
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:11.519
Because I was coming off of doing radio five days a week.
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:13.440
So I thought, well, it's gonna be like that.
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:16.240
And I'm like, but I don't want to do five days a week if we're not getting paid.
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:16.480
Right.
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:18.319
So I just threw out two a week.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:26.880
Uh having no context, no goal, no understanding if that's if people consume it, the the content and that that rate, what what would be a good number to do?
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:30.160
He just said, How many do you want to do?
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:32.319
Because then he could go approach advertisers.
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:32.960
Got it.
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:33.200
Okay.
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.799
And I just I literally pulled, I reached into the dark and pulled out a number.
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:37.920
I have no idea.
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:44.960
And then, you know, I come to find that some people do a podcast a month, or you know, or there are people who do them daily.
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:53.680
And so then for a while, there as we were kind of getting off our off the uh the ground and you know, getting our feet under us and kind of figuring out a rhythm, two a week was tricky.
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:54.720
Why was it tricky?
00:23:54.960 --> 00:24:04.319
Just because even though I've interviewed hundreds, if not thousands, of bands, artists, entrepreneurs, whoever in radio, I always had a producer.
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:11.759
I was never the one doing the the busy work and making the phone calls and answering the emails and crossing the T's and dotting the I's.
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:21.119
And and then once you get a hold of someone who shows interest, then there's the back and forth of as I don't need to tell you, but just to tell other people, the back and forth of where's it at?
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:22.880
Nail it down a time, that day doesn't work.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:23.839
Well, can we do this day?
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.160
And again, it's not the end of the world, but it can be a lot.
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:27.200
It does take time, yeah.
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:28.400
It absolutely does.
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:38.240
And um, that was hard for me to get into a rhythm of doing that, which may sound weird because I, you know, you're only trying to get two a week, but people have busy lives, and I was not used to it.
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:43.200
And to be honest, I didn't know if anybody would care if anybody really wanted to be on my podcast.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:45.839
Because again, I knew nothing about podcasting.
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:53.279
I understood that I was coming off a 30-year radio career, uh, and you know, and I actually did go work at Cities again for a couple more years after that started.
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:55.519
Yeah, so I just I didn't know anything about it.
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:58.480
So it started because Sean asked, and I said yes.
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:04.400
And we had a we had our first main primary sponsor from before the time we recorded our first episode.
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:07.519
You have a gorgeous setup here, and I love this room.
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:13.680
And um, our very first one, though, you know, those shared office spaces where you can pay and just show up and work whenever you want.
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:19.920
We found one of those that also had a very small, extremely modest recording studio in the back.
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:27.599
But in addition to coordinating guests, you had to coordinate with their schedule, other people using that studio, and it just became too much of a nightmare.
00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:35.599
So we decided to, you know, it's not the most lavish production facility, but the Smart Start MN Studio suits our needs perfectly.
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:37.279
It's completely our own.
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:43.759
And I think that changed both Sean and I's attitude once we decided, well, we're gonna start paying rent to have a place to do this thing.
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:45.680
It sharpened our focus, both of us.
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:50.880
And when Sean came on early on, he's like, you know, you should just hire me and not make me a part of the organization.
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:55.599
You I should just be uh an outside consultant or a contractor, you know.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.640
And I'm like, no, because I don't like to do taxes.
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:02.799
I don't want to deal with sales, I don't want to deal with that's it's just I'm not good at it.
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:06.559
And but there are things that come with doing a podcast that I am good at.
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:15.359
And I thought, well, and I don't want to just have him sort of be involved if we're gonna do this, and I need someone with his acumen and his skill set, which I totally do.
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:17.279
I want him to have some skin in the game.
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:24.079
And so we got the LLC together, and we're the co-owners of the podcast, and anything else that might pop up under that umbrella.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:28.240
But uh yeah, so we got it off the ground, and we are rapidly.
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:34.160
We just did episode 526 yesterday, and we are rapidly approaching six years of doing it.
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:38.000
Was the intention to always have Sean kind of be like a co-host?
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:39.119
I think so.
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:40.799
I don't like to monologue.
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:46.079
I the reason the reason that it's an interview-based podcast is I prefer conversation.
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:47.599
I want to sit down and talk.
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:49.599
That's the best way to get information.
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:54.799
It's also the best way to occasionally generate a laugh or find an unexpectedly poignant moment.
00:26:55.039 --> 00:27:03.440
Um, and that's why I make all the guests who come on pick out the three songs we're gonna feature because that to me is another entree into someone's personality.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.480
It deepens the conversation, the understanding of each other.
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:09.839
I'm way past thinking any songs are good or bad anymore.
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.160
I know what I like, but if somebody else feels the exact opposite, they're right too.
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:20.960
So it's just it's a good way to learn about somebody and also have fun, and then there's a little break in the talking.
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:27.599
And um, so I think, you know, the podcast appeals to the the music fans and the people who like the the guests that we have on.
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:32.720
But in those in-between times and the way we kick off the show, I absolutely want Sean to be a co-host.
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:33.759
Not full blown.
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:36.160
I don't want, you know, obviously he's not gonna talk as much as I am.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.240
It's my name on the podcast, all right?
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:44.640
But I would, I would, I would hate it if he was an absolutely silent partner because I don't want to just sit there and monologue.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:57.759
It's it's more interesting, I think, for people to listen to two people talking than one, unless that person is a gifted orator, which I might have a deep voice, but I promise you, if it was just me talking, it would get old quickly.
00:27:58.160 --> 00:27:59.599
I and I love Sean too.
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.880
He always he brings different elements to the show.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:04.240
And that's important.
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:08.160
Like, I mean, my voice gets heard a lot, and my opinions get heard a lot.
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:11.119
So we try to have varied guests, but yeah, you're exactly right.
00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:13.680
Sean is not the same person as me.
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:18.319
We see eye to eye on a lot of things, but he looks at life from a very different angle than I do.
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:19.599
We all learn, right?
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:29.039
We all are better with perspective on things that we don't maybe have a full grasp on, or suddenly are looking at things in a way we hadn't considered them or looked at them before.
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:30.720
I love having a different voice on there.
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.720
And he's it also helps that he's a really, really good individual.
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:39.119
Yeah, a great guy, and uh an impossibly loyal friend.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:40.880
And um, yeah, he's great.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:41.680
I love working with him.
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:43.440
I never dread having to see him.
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:44.240
That's a good thing.
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:48.559
Well, you know, like when you go to work, sometimes you're like, I know, I know so-and-so's gonna be there.
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:50.720
Yes, and I don't ever feel that way about Sean.
00:28:50.960 --> 00:29:00.240
I I feel you don't realize how hard it is to find loyal friends or people who have integrity or who can show up every time.
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:12.400
I tested a lot of friendships of mine, most of my relationships actually, in the last couple of years, and um I gotta say, I must have done a good job picking before because almost everybody stuck with me.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:19.039
So during this time that you're doing your podcasts, you ran into some health issues.
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:19.680
I did.
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:25.680
Can you share what your diagnosis was and what also triggered it to be like, hmm, something's weird today?
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:27.599
And you're like, I should go get that checked out.
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:36.640
Well, I knew something had been wrong for a long time, but it didn't, it hadn't started to present itself in such a way that it was interfering with my life chronically or drastically.
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:39.680
Uh I was a heavy drinker and I was always really good at it.
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.880
Too good at it, because I could drink a lot and never got a hangover.
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.759
Uh well, I found the thing that I could drink, and it was Irish whiskey.
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:49.359
I always drank it neat, so I never had to worry if there was no ice, I don't care.
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:51.119
If there's nothing to mix it with, I don't care.
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:51.920
I drink it neat.
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.640
And uh kind of like drinking black coffee, you know, it is there'll always be black coffee.
00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:59.200
Um anyway, uh, so I but I got good at it.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:07.680
I like the taste of it, and it became part of my I am in a quiet room with just you and me and a couple of microphones.
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:09.039
I feel like I can say anything.
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:11.039
I've never been comfortable around people.
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:11.920
I'm a shy dude.
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:12.640
I'm a little anxious.
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:13.759
That's so interesting to me.
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:18.480
Well, and I think a lot, but I think you'll find a lot of people who do what I've done for a living are in that boat.
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:23.759
Okay, but you get into a small room and you don't know are there are there five people listening?
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:25.759
Are there a hundred thousand people listening?
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:26.799
There's no way to know.
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:28.799
So you can just kind of do it and wing it.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:36.640
And um, liquor always sort of helped me, you know, because there's a lot of social things, you know, oak on the water and all these things I did over the years.
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:44.480
And again, I wouldn't get hammered, but I, you know, two or three drinks into you kind of loosens up your shoulders and a little easier to make all that small talk.
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:46.480
And and you know, and that I'm not blaming that.
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:49.519
That was just one of the places where I found myself drinking.
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:58.880
So I drank too much, I drank way too much, and my body was starting to break down, I was getting jaundiced, it was becoming evident to everyone, and I knew it was a problem.
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:07.119
But of course, I'm a dude who doesn't go to the doctor, so and I don't admit it's a problem until I literally have no choice.
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:18.319
I started to swell up because my body was filling with this uh liquid called ascites that if you have cancer or liver disease, you can really get bloated, you they poke you with a needle and drain you.
00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:21.279
So it started to get really bad, and I was getting dizzy.
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:23.759
I wasn't myself, I couldn't put thoughts together.
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:29.759
I w had this incredibly tight giant bloat on my belly and my abdomen, and I was just living with it.
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:40.160
And um one day I was coming down the stairs and hit the floor hard, and I I tripped on the stairs, and I could barely get myself back up off the ground, and I went out and got in my car.
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:41.440
Probably should have had someone drive me.
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:53.759
I went out and got in my car and drove myself to the emergency room, and that that was last November, uh, so coming up on a year ago, and I then spent the next m six months not doing any work.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:55.359
How did that feel?
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:56.559
Uh not working.
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:56.960
Yeah.
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:59.839
I gotta be honest, I I was so out of my mind.
00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:05.119
Like I somehow things had decayed so far that I wasn't putting two and two together.
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:07.519
I wasn't thinking cohesively or cogently.
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:09.279
I hadn't quite pickled my brain.
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:18.240
It wasn't ruined, but I had something called H E, which fogs all your basic cognitive functions, twists some of them around, replaces some with other ones.
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:21.119
I so I didn't, I you know, I didn't really know how to feel about anything.
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:29.359
I knew I was very sick, I was in and out of the hospital a few times, I was going to medical procedures and screenings uh two to three times a week.
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:36.319
I was in such bad physical shape that um I lost over 70 pounds after being bloated.
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:40.559
Then it started to go the other direction because cirrhosis is a muscle wasting disease.
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:46.240
So cirrhosis of the liver, the long, you know, the shorter version of the story is that I quit drinking.
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:51.519
I went on an incredibly strict diet, and I laid low and I was trying to get all the sleep I could.
00:32:51.759 --> 00:33:00.160
And I came back, and not everybody gets to come back, depending on how much damage you've done to yourself or your body's how much will it have to do it.
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:04.000
Uh, and I just always sort of kept this naive, it's gonna be okay.
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:05.599
If I do the right thing, it's gonna be okay.
00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:14.640
But I had teams of doctors, incredibly loyal friends and family who stood there with me during my literally the darkest moments of my life, uh, and they didn't turn their back on me.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:19.039
Every one of them I owe poof this current attitude to.
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:19.920
My life has changed.
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:21.119
It's done a 180.
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:22.160
I'm not making any money.
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:31.759
I am broke right now, but I don't know that I've ever had anything closer to what you would call, and this is very uncharacteristic, a sunny disposition.
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:35.519
I feel so good about life right now, but I had to go through a really dark spot.
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:39.599
So I got diagnosed with cirrhosis, and that just it changed my life entirely.
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:42.559
I quit all working, didn't even do the podcast for a while.
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:50.960
Sean was great, stepped in, took care of it, got guest hosts, um, uh, and then just slowly but surely uh crawled my way back out.
00:33:51.039 --> 00:34:00.240
And while I was doing that, one of the many procedures that was being done to me, because I had really mucked up my insides pretty bad with the liquor, had a colonoscopy and they found cancer.
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:07.839
But it was stage one, they got it out, and so far with all the marker tests and blood labs I've done, everything seems cool.
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:14.079
So, yeah, no, the back-to-back cirrhosis and cancer diagnosis um has sort of snapped me awake, you know.
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:15.840
Like, I mean, because I've drank all my whole life.
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:18.800
But you'd been sober for a while before the cirrhosis.
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:21.360
I quit in 2020 and I went to treatment actually.
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:27.920
Got it, came out, and that lasted, you know, I don't remember exactly, six to eight months, and then I was drinking again.
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:38.639
But then I went I entered the darkest phase of my drinking, which is why it got so bad, and that I wasn't advertising that I wasn't drinking, or I wasn't advertising that I was back to drinking, but I was totally back to drinking.
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:46.079
So then you throw hiding it on top of bad alcoholism, and you're that's never going to end well for anybody ever.
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.960
So, you know, and I'm not a big AA advocate.
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:51.760
I'm not really a big fan of theirs, but I like some of their attitudes.
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:59.599
The bottom line is you're not going to quit drinking or quit doing any substance or anything harmful to yourself until you're actually ready.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.199
Because I'm not going to meetings, I'm not doing anything like that.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:18.159
But I just passed 11 months of sobriety, and I haven't gotten a twinge once in that entire time to drink because I've been informed directly from specialists that if I go back to drinking, there's a 0% chance I'll be alive in three years' time, and probably much less than that.
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:21.199
And it's a really hideous, painful way to die.
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.199
That's a powerful motivator, right?
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:40.159
And plus, the other thing too, though, is by doing the things, following the plan, listening to the doctors, going to every single appointment, for once in my life, exhibiting the discipline to stay to a strict diet, to drink the right amount of water, to do all these things that I've just never, ever, ever bothered to.
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:43.840
I've got a better headspace right now than I've had in so long, Yua.
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.400
I feel really good about being alive right now.
00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:48.239
You know, and I always did.
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:49.039
I liked my life.
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:57.280
I things were enjoyable, but there is a shine on things now that it took me being pretty screwed up to be able to find.
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:02.400
So, what should we listen to when we're w with our bodies then?
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:04.800
And why are you open about this kind of stuff?
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:08.000
Well, I just I went through it all, and you know, I'm not on a crusade.
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:13.199
I'm not trying to tell anybody how to live their life because until you come to the realization, you will not know.
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:14.719
And it has to come from you.
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:15.199
It does.
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:18.719
All these people telling you is not gonna matter until you say I'm gonna make this.
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:20.320
Oh, well, I still smoke cigarettes.
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:23.599
And every I'm smart enough to know that that will kill me.
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:28.800
And every person I see, especially in this day and age, says, You gotta quit.
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:31.119
And I know the day will come that I quit.
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:39.119
But until I am happy with it, I'll go back to being the guy who's hiding smokes or sneaking them or smoking other people's cigarettes, and that's not quitting smoking.
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:40.719
And that's the thing I found about drinking.
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:46.000
So when it comes to listening to your body, I don't have anything deep or insightful.
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:54.480
All I know is that, and again, shocker, it's only been in every nutrition book I've ever read my entire life, even though the guidelines change.
00:36:54.639 --> 00:37:02.559
If you're eating right, even getting modest exercise, drinking enough water, the great thing is make that the how you normally live your life.
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:07.360
You can still go out and down an entire deep dish pizza if you want, just don't do it every day.
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:13.599
You can go out and have a half dozen cocktails and see your favorite band in the world, just don't do it every day, you know?
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:21.679
And it's super simple, but mine has been moderation, making sure that I eat four full servings of vegetables every day.
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:25.199
And if you think you're acting like an idiot about something, you are.
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:28.559
And you're you're well past the point of acting like so.
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:29.119
Just don't.
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:34.239
I just listen, and you know, for all those things, I put off getting a colonoscopy for way too long.
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:34.800
Okay.
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.119
You know, now they've moved it down to 45.
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:38.239
Some people are saying 40.
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:39.280
Oh no, that's me then.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:40.880
Well, I hate to break it to you.
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:46.480
Um, all I can say is that nobody likes the idea of a colonoscopy, right?
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:48.559
But they knock you out, yeah.
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:50.159
You don't experience any of it.
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:57.760
Get your colonoscopies, go to your regular physicals, have them draw blood at least once a year just to check your basic numbers.
00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:57.920
Yeah.
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:02.000
Because the earlier you find any of this stuff, the better your prognosis will be.
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:06.079
A funny thing is the person who made the panels here is Luke Anderson.
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:08.719
He's a drummer in the band Rogue Valley.
00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:15.760
And his partner is Linnea Moan, and she is the person that you watch in the videos of the colonoscopy.
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:16.800
Like, this is what you do.
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:17.360
Really?
00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:25.119
So a mutual friend of ours, Lissy, who is a musician, uh-huh, posted about it because like Luke drums in her band too, and she's like, Here's Linnea.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:26.079
So I was like, Oh.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:27.119
Wow.
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:30.239
We're talking Linnea Mona used to be folks said not to, yeah.
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:31.119
Yeah, yeah, okay.
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:35.360
So that's funny too to see like all these people in different like aspects of your life.
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:36.800
You're like, hey, you showed up in a different way.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:37.280
Uh-huh.
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:37.760
Yeah, exactly.
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:39.039
In my colonoscopy video.
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:40.880
Colonoscopy instructional video.
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:49.199
Okay, so what is it about this area, this space that draws you to the Twin Cities?
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:54.000
Because I know you've voiced many times that you want to move to the West Coast.
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:55.280
So that's a great point.
00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:57.360
Oregon is where I was actually born.
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.480
I was born in Portland, but my parents moved here when I was two.
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:00.880
Okay.
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:02.880
Um, and so kicked you out of the element, yeah.
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:07.840
I really only ever known well, but then they brought me back every year because my dad's family's out there, mom's family's here.
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:12.880
So our summer vacation every year was two weeks in Oregon, and it just got in my blood.
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:14.000
I love it out there so much.
00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:14.880
Is it the weather?
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:29.440
Is it it is, and you're like right now, my parents are out there on the coast and it's dark and it's gray and it's wet, and like the weather we're having right now in the Twin Cities, this we're past the fun part of fall, and now into the grit your teeth and bear it till winter part of fall.
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:30.880
It's my favorite time of year.
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:36.079
I love this so I call dry January just the time where I'm trying to fight the dry skin.
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:36.719
Mm-hmm.
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:38.159
That's my dry January.
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:44.239
Yeah, no, and I just I don't Oregon also has everything you could ever want if you like to be outdoors, and I do.
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:52.719
It's got mountains, it's got ocean, it's got sand dunes, proper desert, it's got the deepest, most primordial forest you've ever been in.
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:54.159
It's got some cool cities.
00:39:54.239 --> 00:40:04.400
It's just it's it's got I love it out there, but you asked me about here, and the only reason I've never moved to Oregon is I am a homebody.
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:06.079
I uh crave the familiar.
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:08.000
I am not a high adventurer.
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:10.559
And I've I grew up here and being an outdoors guy.
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:17.840
I grew up camping, going to the boundary waters, being outdoors all the time, canoeing, and this is the dream location for that sort of thing.
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:24.480
Also, all my dearest friends and family are here, and you know, this the whole notion of well, why do you love it here?
00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:25.360
Why do you stay here?
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:32.639
has come up a few times over the years because I did look at jobs and other markets and radio, and that's really more the norm than the exception.
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:39.119
You go where the gig is, and I'm glad push never came to shove because I think I love Minnesota more than I even loved radio.
00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:42.239
And I mean, if I needed to eat, I would go take the gig.
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:46.559
But if I can stay living in Minnesota, I don't know if I'm ever gonna leave.
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:49.840
I I like to visit Chicago, LA.
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:53.360
I'm okay with New York, but I could never live in any of those places.
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.239
I I like the size of this pond that we're in right here.
00:40:56.480 --> 00:41:03.840
I also, Minnesota probably has the most dynamic demarcation between seasons around the year.
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:05.519
And I like all four seasons.
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:18.000
And I think there's there's something healthy and good for your mentality to go through all those, the abulliance of summer, you know, the the thoughtful reconsideration of fall, the the dark, desolate nature of winter.
00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:22.079
There's not a time of the year that I'm afraid of or don't like except the ultra hot summer.
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.599
I know dinosaur weather, like when the dew points up that high.
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:28.639
I just I can't breathe and I get sweaty, I hate it.
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:36.719
You know, I live in the city, I live in South Minneapolis, and the the roads are canopied with trees, like something out of an elven village or something.
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:42.639
You know, we live in one of the most beautiful urban areas in the entire country.
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.679
So that's fantastic, and I love being in the heart of that.
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:52.480
Um, contrary to popular belief, it's more of an idyllic Eden than it is a burning hell that many people would have you believe.
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:54.559
Um I mean, that's just Minneapolis, not St.
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:54.960
Paul though.
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:55.519
Exactly.
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:55.679
St.
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:57.599
Paul's free of those kinds of problems.
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:05.360
Um but then the the culture, the richness of the culture here is often lost on people from the coasts.
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:08.960
I still think there is an impression that Minnesota is flyover country.
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:31.519
When in fact, whether you're into dance, whether you're into reading, whether you're into certainly into music, whatever you might be into from a cultural perspective, great art houses and art galleries, um instruction in the arts, i if that part of our culture matters to you, you'll find places with much greater diversity, your New York's and your LA's.
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:40.159
But as far as cohesion and I think accessibility to those worlds, I don't know that there's I don't know if there's a parallel for for the Twin Cities.
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:40.960
I love it here.
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:41.519
Yeah.
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:45.199
I'm gonna give you a little bit of a chance to brag.
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:51.599
Oh my um, who has been your favorite interview in terms of famous people?
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:57.280
The vast majority, like 98.9% of them, have been incredible.
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:01.760
You know, most people who are successful in any sphere in life are good communicators.
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:10.239
And even if they're not in the mood to sit down and talk with you, if their job demands it for 10 minutes and it's gonna get their song played on the radio, they're gonna give you a great ten minutes.
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:15.679
Now, not everybody, there are jerks, but most of them have been amazing, and it's always been my favorite part of my job.
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:26.880
I like the talking part, but sitting down and finding out what makes bands tick and what went into this album or why they decided to do this thing over here, that's always been and really with the shape my podcast has taken on.
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:27.760
Let's see.
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:29.039
Some of the great ones.
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:32.800
Um Brandy Carlisle in Studio C.
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:43.920
Now, the ones I'm gonna pick pick for you here are the Studio C ones, um, where we have would have anywhere between 30 to 80 people in this small performance space at Cities 97.
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:48.800
Oh man, I'm trying to think there were so she was open and vulnerable, or why why was she a great interviewer?
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:49.440
Who's that?
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:50.159
Brandy.
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:50.719
She was.
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:54.159
She was very sweet, very kind, she was very involved, like a good interview.
00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:58.000
They're looking at you and paying attention, they're trying to actually answer your question, right?
00:43:58.239 --> 00:43:59.760
And she was engaged, but also.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:08.320
So there are a handful of performers out there who are more than just a singer with a guitar, right?
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:11.039
Brandi Carlisle is a sorceress.
00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:24.239
Her gifts as not only a songwriter, but then as a storyteller and someone who can weave that together so beautifully with simple and powerful music or complex and powerful music.
00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:28.639
There are just few people whose weave is as deep and as strong and as powerful.
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:33.920
And I just remember sitting there, you know, because I'm interviewing her, so I'm sitting 10 feet away right in front of the crowd.
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:39.519
And um I just I remember not having anything to say after she finished one of her songs.
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:40.800
And it was so good.
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:51.039
There was a two, three, four-second beat from the audience, like nobody could really believe that we just watched that and boom, and then the you know the applause erupted and everything.
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:52.559
But she cast a spell.
00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:54.639
She's not like a regular performer.
00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:56.320
And there have been all kinds of great ones.
00:44:56.480 --> 00:45:00.559
Over the years, a lot of Mike Peers in radio, they want to be buds.
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:04.880
So they're stopping in the green room and doing their Snapchat and whatever.
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:06.320
And that's never been my thing.
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:08.000
You know, we both have a job to do there.
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:11.599
I want to be cordial, I want to get along, and if we're pals, we're pals, great.
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:16.480
But I kind of hit it off with Matt Nathanson years ago, and he and I became pretty good friends, actually.
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:18.480
So that was a charmer.
00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:19.119
Oh my god.
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:19.440
Yeah.
00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:24.239
Well, he's just he's so funny and he's so smart, and for whatever reason, well, you know how it is.
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:34.320
No matter what you do for a living, occasionally you meet those people where what they say is interesting, what you're saying is interesting to them, you make each other laugh, and it just sort of happens without effort, right?
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:36.800
No artifice, it's just oh, we get along.
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:40.960
And that's it doesn't happen often enough in this world, but when it does, it's wonderful.
00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:43.280
Um, so yeah, no, he's a total charmer.
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:44.960
Uh Cheryl Crow is great.
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:54.800
You know, it's weird because I am a professional and I've always been professional, and I don't harbor any weird illusions, but every once in a while, no matter what you do, every once in a while you crush out on someone.
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:59.920
And in the 90s, the first time I interviewed her, I crushed out pretty hard on Sarah McLaughlin.
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:02.000
Uh and she's coming back to tone.
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:02.800
I know.
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:04.559
And I was I was smitten.
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:06.320
I just I I already liked your music.
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:07.920
Was this the days 97?
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:09.199
No, this would have been earlier.
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:13.440
This would have been back when I was still working with Steve Nelson at Zone 105.
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:13.760
Okay.
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:21.519
We were over, she was at Northrop, and we went over there, and in one of the offices or schoolrooms, or classrooms adjacent to it, is where we did the interview.
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:23.440
And she was just lovely and charming.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:25.920
And I went to the show and I love her music so much.
00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:27.840
Then didn't see her again for 20 years.
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:32.559
And when they did the Lilith Fair reunion, she came through uh cities.
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:33.840
She was just the coolest.
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:35.199
Did she remember you?
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:35.840
Yeah, no.
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:36.880
That's okay.
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:38.960
I just didn't sometimes they do, and sometimes.
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:40.639
And trust me, this was all in my head.
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:43.679
I don't think that she I don't think that she was smitten either.
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:55.360
Um, but no, she but she again she was still wonderful, and two decades of success and the history of Lilith Fair, her getting an OBE from the Queen, you know, but she was still down to earth.
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:59.599
She walked into the green room, one of my favorite stories of any any time in radio.
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:06.559
So I'm enamored of her, and we're not doing a crowd in Studio C because she's got somewhere to be, so she's just coming in, she's gonna do the uh the performance.
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:08.480
We'll record it and play it back later.
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:10.400
Uh she walks into the green room.
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:11.440
I point her in.
00:47:11.679 --> 00:47:26.800
She does not look sideways, she takes her purse off and throws it on the table next to her and makes an actual beeline to the Galaga and Miss Pac-Man machine that's in the back of the green room, and she starts playing Miss Pac-Man and she's playing and playing, and I'm like, all right, well, I'll be back in a bit.
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:29.119
We go and get everything set up in Studio C.
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:31.840
Um, I come back and I'm like, all right, Sarah, I think we're good.
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:33.519
She's like, all right, just about done here.
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:34.960
I walk away.
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:35.840
I don't want to crowd her.
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:38.639
She's obviously having a moment playing Miss Pac-Man.
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:44.079
And um uh then I finally came and I went and talked to our sound guy, and he's like, we kind of gotta get going here.
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:48.000
So I went back in, and you know, by now it's been, she's been playing for more than 20 minutes.
00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:53.920
And um uh I didn't know if she'd started new games or what she's like, no, no, gotta I I can't I'll be right there.
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:56.079
And I've been on that that end of it, right?
00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:59.119
Where you're like, I'm not finishing, I'm I'm doing really good right now.
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:03.440
She is apparently a Miss Pac-Man super pro.
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:10.079
Um she got the high score that stood there for five years until some other band came along and broke it years later.
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:12.639
So she was very charming, and I love that one a lot.
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.440
You know, I've interviewed the guys in REM.
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:31.519
Uh Ryan Adams, I was terrified to interview because he had a reputation for being this wild card, and at the time he was drinking and you know, attacking fans that were saying rude things in the audience, and it just I'm like, why did he even agree to do this?
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:34.800
I thought that but he uh unbeknownst to me had recently gotten sober.
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:37.679
He turned out to be one of the most delightful people I've ever had the chance to get.
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:39.039
He was on your Brian Oak show.
00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:42.000
Yeah, uh no, not on the podcast, but on Cities 97.
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:42.480
Got it.
00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:43.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:50.960
You know, the radio, obviously, because of label involvement, um you have a lot more access to much, much bigger names.
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:54.960
I get names that I absolutely adore for the podcast right now.
00:48:55.199 --> 00:49:08.239
Just had Greg Norton of Hoosker Do fame in to talk about the big new five or sorry, four disc box set that's coming out of the numerous group based on one show in First Avenue's main room uh back in uh 1985.
00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:09.039
Oh wow.
00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:09.519
Yeah.
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:13.280
I reviewed the Grant Hart show that he did at the Hook and Ladder.
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:20.400
It was his last show, and uh that was a very emotional show, but they weren't gonna announce that he had cancer at that time.
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:22.559
I didn't know much about Hoosker Doo.
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:29.039
You know, it was one of my favorite pieces I wrote because it was more about the people there than it was about the history of it, too.
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:37.199
I'm like, I'm capturing a time and space more than I am like, okay, here's a history of this band that you probably already know about.
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:40.000
Grant was uh a very, very lovable dude.
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:47.840
You know, he's a complex character to say the very least, but um but he was so talented, and you know, who's gonna do literally changed my life.
00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:56.960
Growing up, uh, I went into a record store, Northern Lights, when I was 16 years old, coming down from Coon Rapids, coming down once a month or so.
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:02.800
Me and my cool alternative buddies would come down and go to Schinders and buy comic books, and we go to Northern Lights to buy records.
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:15.280
And I walked in, I looked like something out of a John Hughes movie, like an extra character, an NPC in the background somewhere, trench coat, silly new wave haircut, clearly suburban punk rock or new wave kid.
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:20.000
And I walk into the coolest record store in the state, and I asked the guy behind the counter, I'm like, What's good?
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:26.639
And this would have been a classic opportunity to be classic record store guy and just make me buy something totally ridiculous and stupid.
00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:40.159
But this guy walked me over to, he's like, We just got this in, and this is the best record in this store right now, and it was Who's Curdo's Zen Arcade, which has more than stood the test of time now more than 40 years ago, and it was uh it changed everything for me.
00:50:40.239 --> 00:50:41.360
I didn't have any context.
00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:44.079
It cracked everything open that I thought I knew about music.
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:46.239
I'd never heard anything like it and fell in love with it.
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:56.000
And I already liked loud guitars like Cream and Hendrix, but this was a whole new world because it was all the angst of hardcore, yeah, but there was all the emo of emo.
00:50:56.079 --> 00:50:58.800
It was there was all and there's these great melodies in there.
00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:06.400
And Grant, you know, getting back to your point there, uh Grant had the more pop sensibility, but delightfully so.
00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:11.440
He was just he was he was a very nuanced individual, except when he wasn't, you know.
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:12.239
He was great.
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:16.079
Okay, so you talk a little bit about your celebrity.
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:25.679
I I thought it was interesting because I was talking to somebody today, and you had come to speak at uh event that I hosted years ago at my day job.
00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:31.840
Um it was a web agency, and we had these happy hours, but it was O UR Like we owned it happy hour.
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:32.239
Right.
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:40.639
And uh I asked you to come and you came, and your friend Jason Nagel, they had a fundraiser that same night at the turf, so you had to like run off.
00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:45.280
And my colleague asked me, he's like, How did you get Brian Oak to come?
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:46.320
I'm like, I don't know.
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:56.239
Like I just asked him and he came, but like there's this concept of you and then the real you, and how close are they?
00:51:56.639 --> 00:52:00.239
And has that gotten smaller over the years at margin?
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:06.719
Because I'm I only ever get this front row seat that I have for me, so I don't really know what the rest of the world thinks.
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:17.519
Um I've always been a little self-conscious in general, a little self-deprecating, you know, both in a jokey way, but also in a genuine way.
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:24.400
And so I was I'm always I used to be genuinely embarrassed, couldn't take a compliment, didn't like the attention any of it.
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:26.880
You are a true Minnesotan, even though you're from Portland.
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:28.320
Oh, I'm a Minnesotan.
00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:32.480
I everything I know is Minnesotan, and um I don't like that.
00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:44.480
That's why radio is perfect, because then you have this benefit of having some influence and having a voice, but really my job is to sit in a small five by five gray room and talk into this one microphone, and that's my job.
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:53.360
And you know, so the going out and the socializing part of it, I've met people who could give a rip that I'm Brian Oak, and I meet people that are too nervous to come up and say hi to me.
00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:55.119
Um, that is not common.
00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:56.320
Neither of those are common.
00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:58.880
Most people just like, oh, that's the guy on the radio, cool.
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:04.800
And if you know, if they like listening to it or they like hearing me show up on KFAN to talk about music or whatever, that's the one I get these days.
00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:08.400
I used to hear you two on uh the Dave Brian in the morning show.
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:08.800
Oh, yeah.
00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:09.280
It was funny.
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:10.559
Because we're in the same hallway.
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:12.079
There were five radio stations right there.
00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:19.599
Well, it was funny because like I'd read comments, they'd post on their social media, you know, Brian Oak's on the show today, and all these women would be like the sexiest voice.
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:25.679
And see now, so that that's I wish that my life had more of that in it, but no, that that was never a day-to-day thing.
00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:30.400
But I I remember that every time I'd go on KDWB, and then they would take calls sometimes.
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:44.559
And you know, I've got a woman a third my age calling me Zaddy, and I'm like, yeah, no, I'm and again, I know it's all in fun and everything, but that was just that's so not who my radio persona or personal, you know, it's like that's exactly exactly.
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:47.119
No, they they like that kind of stuff, they stir the pot.
00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:50.719
You know, I've and so it it's garnered me a lot of respect.
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:54.320
Um, it got me out of a speeding ticket once being Brian Oak.
00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:58.320
Here's the thing about it I don't mind a bit of notoriety or celebrity.
00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:00.239
And again, we're using these terms really relatively.
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:03.199
It's not like it's difficult for me to walk down the street or anything like that.
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:04.320
You're not Brad Pitt.
00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:05.599
No, I am not.
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:09.119
Um not even close, but I don't mind the notoriety.
00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:13.519
But I've never been the person who is do you know who I am?
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:17.440
And I never enter a situation expecting someone to know who I am.
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:31.280
And for a while there, when it started to really peak, and I'd been on the radio for 10 years, and my voice or my name got uh was around a bit, people at least had heard of me, you know, I'd go to a party even with dear friends, and they wouldn't just introduce me as Brian, they'd be like, Hey, this is Brian Oak, you know, from cities.
00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:40.960
And and and and again, I I saw what they were trying to do, and it was, but I really am like, I've always wanted to win or lose a situation based on my own merits, you know.
00:54:41.199 --> 00:54:46.400
So if I show up at an event like that or I'm introducing a band, that's Brian Oak, right?
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:50.559
And but that's not what my life is like 99.9% of the time.
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:54.880
And, you know, I even in a scenario like this, I'm just happy to be here.
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:58.400
I've never thought I'm a bigger deal or less of a deal than anybody else.
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:02.159
And I'd again, that's never a good look on anybody, right?
00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:08.800
Um, I can't quantify where that gap was and where it is now because I don't really know what people think about me.
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:15.199
I think probably like most people, other people's opinion of you is a pretty scattered bag, right?
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:17.679
I mean, there's a it there's a lot of variance in there.
00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:19.920
Yeah, and I never really drank my own Kool-Aid.
00:55:20.079 --> 00:55:22.079
I was just happy to be doing what I was doing for a living.
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:23.760
Okay, so last question for you.
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:24.159
Oh.
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:27.280
What do you want people to see when they see you?
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:28.159
Hmm.
00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:29.360
It's a big one.
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:39.599
I guess I'd like people to see someone who does his best, doesn't always succeed, but does his best to be honest to the things he believes in, you know.
00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:42.559
Like, I don't wear music like a badge.
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:47.199
I don't have a huge collection of vinyl to be like, look at my cool vinyl.
00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:48.400
I genuinely care.
00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:49.280
I'm a true believer.
00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:50.239
I do love it.
00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:53.519
And there's something about the ceremony of vinyl.
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:55.440
We don't get to pick what we love, right?
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:58.159
It's in your head, and so all that's genuine.
00:55:58.239 --> 00:56:05.679
So I guess I'd like people to see someone who is not trying to give in to artifice or manipulation.
00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:08.320
I really, I think I really am who I am.
00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:15.440
And I'd like them to see someone who is probably no more, no less flawed than anybody else out there.
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:19.519
But we also come to our flaws in different ways and deal with them in different ways.
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:28.639
And as long as I'm moving in the right direction, towards being a better me, treating people around me better, treating the world better, that's who I would want people to see.
00:56:28.719 --> 00:56:30.400
At least that's what I'm trying to express.
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:34.800
Handsome, aging, 57-year-old Irish-American white male.
00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:35.280
Yes.
00:56:35.599 --> 00:56:36.719
Cisgendered.
00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:38.960
I don't know what people see, you know.
00:56:39.039 --> 00:56:42.000
And I think that's that's one of our frustrations in life, right?
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:54.559
I mean, you don't you'll never know, even though you and I are sitting here and talking and we get along well and we enjoy each other's company, you're never really gonna know 100% what I think about you, and I'll never know a hundred percent what you think about me.
00:56:54.639 --> 00:57:01.280
So I I try not to get into that trap because every again, you can tell when people are desperate for people to like them.
00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:04.639
And that's that just sounds exhausting, you know.
00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:06.639
So if people like me, wonderful.
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:08.320
Let's get together, we'll hang out, we'll talk.
00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:11.599
And if not, then let's just move on because there's lots of other things to do.
00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:12.400
Yeah.
00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:13.840
That's been a delight.
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:14.480
Thank you so much.
00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:15.599
Thank you, you know.
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:16.239
Anytime.
00:57:18.320 --> 00:57:21.119
Between two urns is hosted by me, Q of A.
00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:24.559
Technical support and editing is provided by Chris Coza.
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:27.840
Our theme song, Swaying Trees, is written by Chris Coza.
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:32.480
Between Two Earns is made possible by a grant from the Harlan Boss Foundation.
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:40.079
For more information about Ramsey County Historical Society, please visit www.rchus.com.
00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:41.199
Thanks for listening.