How A Third Generation Owner Keeps A Small Town Hardware Store Thriving

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Evan Knoll is the co-owner of Knowles Inc., a family-owned hardware store in Farmington that's been serving the Four Corners community since 1946.
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Started by his dad, Evan now runs the business alongside his father Greg, a true family operation that's nearly eight decades strong.
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But here's what makes Knowles special.
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They're not just a hardware store, they're the kind of place where locals grab a bolt or ask advice, where generations of families have trusted them to get the job done right.
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With a 4.6 star rating and a team of 15 to 20 employees, Evan has kept that small town feel while scaling a business that's been a community staple since the Truman administration.
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Evan, welcome to the show.
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Thank you for having me.
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Yeah.
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So um I know your your dad started this.
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What what was there something that inspired you to get involved in it?
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Or is that so actually my grandfather started this back in 1946?
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Uh he started it with a partner.
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It was called Knowles and Cousins back then.
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Um, and so then they were originally a Main Street store, uh, your typical Main Street hardware store from the 50s.
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And then they uh they moved down here, uh this part of town in 1972, and that's when we started doing more of the industrial side as well.
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Yeah.
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But uh my dad started at the Main Street store sweeping and doing all that.
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Um I did work here probably when I was about 14, is when I started, and that was actually um I had gotten in trouble because uh I parents were out of town and I threw a little party, and so to pay my father back, I had to actually work at the store and he took my paycheck.
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Um worked here for a couple years and then uh went on with my own life, you know, went through high school, things like that, had some other jobs, and then I came back, it was probably about 22, uh maybe 23 years old.
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And uh my original plan for coming back was so I could uh finish up some schooling and move on into another field, but just after being here so long, I kind of took to it, changed my degree to a business degree, and I've been here over 20 years now.
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Wow.
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Yeah, quite a while.
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Very cool, yeah.
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So when when you took over like those the that first year or so, like what was the early days like?
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When I first took over.
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Um so uh like before I really took over, there was uh my father and my aunt were running it, and I was kind of more in say like day-to-day logistics, uh, some of the hiring, a little bit of the firing and things like that, but nothing too serious.
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And there was a little bit of mentorship in terms of filling out government compliance forms and and all that.
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So um around 2020 is when I really started taking a lot more.
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That's when my aunt retired, uh, took on more of the payroll operations, um, 401k and things like that.
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It wasn't too much of a change as far as that's concerned.
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Uh, just a little more freedom to do more things I wanted to do on the front end, you know, rearrange the store, remodel, yeah, uh, change some employees out and things like that.
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So kind of a slow process of just getting to where I'm at now.
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So really just a good slow buildup.
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And you've got your dad around the driver.
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He actually just retired this year.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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He um he was looking at it at the end of the year, um, 2025, and then he he actually had a heart attack in uh the beginning of March.
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This year.
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Yeah.
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This year.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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And it wasn't too bad of a heart attack.
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He, you know, he was on his feet the next day and everything, thankfully.
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But uh that kind of just made sure that's where he was going.
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And so he's retired, and I've been basically in control for the last few months with no no oversight.
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Yeah.
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I'm glad he's okay.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Man, yeah, it's crazy.
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Yeah, crazy times.
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It's one of those alarm bells, right?
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Uh for him that, yeah, okay, I'm done.
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There's things that things he was been wanting to do that he hasn't had time to take care of, or yeah, you know, put on the back burner and now he's doing it.
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So it's good.
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Yeah.
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If you could go back when you first decided, like, okay, this is my thing, this is what I'm gonna do.
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Um, and tell yourself one thing, what would that be?
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Oh gosh.
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There's a lot of things I'd like to tell myself.
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Um I I guess prepping for the future, which you know, to be sure to prep for the future.
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I feel like I've done that, but not as much as you know, I'm looking, always kind of looking like three, five years ahead, but really five, ten, fifteen years.
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Yeah.
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Um, I wish I could go back and warn myself about the COVID years, you know, that'd be great.
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But yeah, just just uh foresight even more so uh 10 years, 20 years out would be you know, always be looking for that.
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Don't don't get short-sighted.
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Sure.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I think all the young people, younger people are in that same boat.
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It it's hard to think, Pat.
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You know, I'm I'm 43 now.
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Yeah.
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And gosh, 16, 18, 20 years old in those ages.
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I it's hard to imagine even being 30.
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You know, and I was quite the troublemaker as a youth, and to be where I'm at now, I I couldn't even imagine back then.
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Yeah.
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Could not even imagine.
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Yeah.
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So wow.
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What's um what's what's a typical day look like?
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Uh typical day of work is is pretty standard, honestly.
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Um come in, open up, you kind of start with greeting customers.
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Um, the morning schedule's pretty light.
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Uh, then I, you know, it's it's paperwork and logistics, a couple meetings with teams, making sure each uh different department is is on the same page.
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Um that'll usually get me around to lunch.
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And then a little more of the same.
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There's there's uh working with customers here and there.
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It it is important as a small business to make sure that as the you know face of the business you are actually facing your customers.
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Um, I think it's important for your employees too, because you know, they they definitely feed off of you.
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You know, if if I get in a lull over time, I can start to see it in my employees.
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So I try to make sure that you know I'm up uh expressing my energy, gratitude with the customers, taking time with them.
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So employees do that too.
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But that that's pretty much it.
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It's it's pretty standard.
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We don't do anything crazy, we're not open super late.
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Um, I you know, this this time of year, the beginning of each year, I'll see a lot of uh, you know, filings and forms and taxes and stuff like that.
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But for the most part, it's it's just pushing paperwork, make employees where they need to be.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I I agree that is important for a business owner to be front and center at least part of the time.
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Because um then it's not you telling your employees what to do or what needs to be done, and it's not them reporting issues back to you.
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Um it's it's you showing them how to do the things that need to be done.
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Um so they get to see that you're not quote unquote above doing this, right?
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So they get to see that that uh you're part of the, you know, you're in the team, the same team that they're on.
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Exactly.
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And then also your um your firsthand knowledge of any kind of customer issues that might pop up or how people react to certain things or or whatever.
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So it it gives you firsthand knowledge through your own filter instead of an employee's filter that's telling you that might not be exactly how things would be.
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You you definitely can't be afraid to pick up a mop or to take out the trash.
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But being out and with your customers, with your team, you you get an idea of what they're going through.
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So if you if you are planning on making a change, you don't make a change that that's really gonna end up hurting them, right?
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Or hurting your business, hurting your team, or uh, you know, if something comes up later, you know, a week later, a month later, it's more likely that I'm gonna already be aware of it.
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And so I'm not behind the eight ball trying to figure out what's going on.
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Right.
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But spending time with the team really helps with that um a lot.
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You know, a customer comes up, they ask for the manager.
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If you already know about it, it saves you a lot of time, and you can actually, you know, get your customer back to where you need to be instead of, oh, let me see what I gotta do.
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And then that frustrates your customer more.
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Yeah, just yeah, yeah.
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Is there a part of the business that takes the most time and energy?
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Paperwork on all sides, you know, between orders and uh ordering, uh fulfilling your orders, making sure things are correct and built out properly.
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That is one of the biggest ones for sure.
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Uh what you do with or for your employees, you know, whether it's payroll, 401k, their time off, that that's probably the next thing I would say.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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For all that paperwork and stuff, do you have like systems that yeah, yeah, we use our our own ERP.
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We actually changed our ERP uh a few years ago.
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Um, and that's always a struggle, especially if you have an older team, which my team's gotten younger over the last few years, but um, you know, when someone's used to using a certain computer program for sales, whenever you change it, it's always a nightmare.
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Uh especially in the initial phase.
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Probably that first year was uh very difficult on everybody, but harder on the people that have been here the longest.
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My dad being one of them, you know, you you just get used to it.
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It's muscle memory and everything.
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Um, but the one of the issues we face, and kind of why I went to this, is you know, obviously online versus brick and mortar, and we have a little bit online, and you even if you are just a brick and mortar, you have to have a you know a some kind of an online face.
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You your customers are still gonna search for you online even if you don't sell anything there.
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And this ERP that we went to is meant to help with that further distribution, be able to sell things outside of our area, not just in our area.
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Cool.
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So, yeah.
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So, how do people generally find you?
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Uh we've been in the community a long time, so there's a lot of word of mouth.
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Uh, a lot of people that will come in and you know, they they'll say something like, I used to come in here with my dad or my grandpa and buy things, and that's always comforting.
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But of course, in this new age, you know, there's there's Facebook, there's we have our own online page.
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We feature some of our products on there, not everything that we carry.
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Um trying to think.
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We've done some of the social media stuff before, but personally speaking, I'm not a big fan, and I try to stay away from social media.
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I don't feel it's yeah, super positive for mental health, mixed emotions over social media can be very uh back or forth for sure.
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But um mainly our online page and the Facebook.
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Um we try to participate within the community, donations and and things like that.
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You know, I work with the River Reach Foundation as well.
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That's kind of more of a personal thing on my side, but but being involved within the community helps because you just you know, you get that opportunity to meet with other members of the community and that spreads word of mouth.
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But uh try for the most part, my my real focus outside of the online space is making sure that the customers are here are happy because word of mouth with a happy customer is always the best way to everyone.
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So yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, word of mouth is is pretty massive, especially in this area.
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I mean, it's it's always a thing, no matter where you are, but this area seems to be a lot more weighted relationships than than other types of things.
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And so um, but it is slowly changing, just like everything else.
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I mean, we just usually change about 20 years later than other places, yes.
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So um it is slowly changing.
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But I'm remembering some of those things, like um, you know, doing shout-outs here, but salmon's.
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I mean, I oh yeah, when I moved back here, I couldn't believe they were still open.
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Yeah, in this day and age.
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It's crazy.
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How are they still open?
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And rain jobs, of course, they just closed, but uh well, and they had sold, and that whole business model changed and they turned into something else.
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And yeah, it's something it it's interesting.
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You know, we're a business that relies a lot on service, you know, not just right selling a product, but what we do with the products that we sell, and obviously the customer service.
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You know, someone walks into my store, they they're not just necessarily walking around, they're asking for help.
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Yeah, and that's really important to have.
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All a first-time customer comes in here, they can be a little lost, they're not really sure what it, you know, it carries so much on an industrial side, and then so much for your commercial or homeowner.
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And being able to engage with that customer, making sure that my employees can actually give them a hand, that leads to the growth with that customer and having them return.
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But a first-time customer comes in here, maybe they find the one thing they're looking for and they check out, it's less likely that I'll see them again, at least in any short time frame.
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Sure.
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Yeah.
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I think that's um that's one of the factors that make small businesses competitive with larger businesses.
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Because, you know, you can go into some big box store somewhere and get stuff.
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Um, but when you're in that situation where you're not exactly sure what you need, or you think you know what you need, and and then you're explaining it, and somebody steps up and goes, dude, no, put that back.
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You don't that that's the wrong thing.
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You don't need that.
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Yeah, you need this right here.
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This is why.
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That sort of thing um is pretty rare in big box stores.
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Very rare.
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And even the the willingness of those employees to help you at those stores.
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The the biggest problem I see with a lot of that is we'll get customers that'll come in to answer those questions, and then maybe they're still looking to buy the product online.
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You know, they're looking at this versus that, get a recommendation, and then they purchase it online.
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Or, you know, some people that they'll come into a store like this, and the the first expectation is that level of customer service, but then they want that same bottom price.
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And the price can be competitive, but you know, especially in this economy, people are looking to save pennies over dollars.
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And, you know, if if they know they can still get something from somewhere else, whether it's online or a larger box store, and they're saving, you know, 50 cents to a dollar, sometimes that's worth it.
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And I can't blame anyone for that, but yeah, it's another challenge that you have because they're not expected to provide the customer service, right?
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And they can give it to you cheaper, but I'm expected to offer the same price with the same level of customer services as a small business.
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And that that's a challenge, and you have to you have to work really hard with a customer to get that across without sounding arrogant or you know, putting like you're pushing an agenda, and it's obviously it's hard for me as a small business owner because it is an agenda.
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So right, yeah.
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Yeah, it's hard with it definitely is, but you need it to not sound like it is.
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Right, exactly.
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Yeah, and you don't want to be beggy or pushy, but you definitely have to relate that.
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So yeah, yeah.
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Wow.
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Um what surprised you most about running running the business?
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Um probably like my own expectations, uh, especially over the years, you know, there's you know, I'm obviously what you put into it, you get out, but you have to be careful about, you know, you're never gonna get, you know, an employee's never gonna care about your business like you do.
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Right.
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Or you're never, you know, you might have a great year one year and a down year another, regardless of how much work you put into it.
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And you know, curbing what those expectations are, it's it's it's difficult, especially when you put a lot into it, a lot of time.
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You know, I used to have a lot more hair.
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Uh, you know, and it's it's difficult.
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So like the expectations, you know, regardless of of what I do, I can't necessarily control everything.
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And yeah, that that's the biggest surprise.
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Because you especially when you're younger, it and you really start to figure out and you really start to work harder, you you start to see some of the fruits of that.
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And when you you know, you get older, sometimes you get a stomach punch here and there, and you see that it's not always gonna work out that way.
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And you have to plan for it, you know, it's planning ahead and things like that.
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But uh it's hard.
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That's hard to, you know.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Dealing with the ebbs and flows and yeah, trying to normalize that in your head um to an extent because you don't want to completely normalize it and just think, well, that's the way it is.
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Yeah, you know, so it yeah, you're this tug of war inside yourself constantly.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Um, it what part of the business was like just the hardest to figure out?
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We do a lot here.
00:20:01.569 --> 00:20:03.970
Uh we're we're fairly diverse.
00:20:04.210 --> 00:20:19.009
Um, so we we do a lot industrial side, so we deal with the power plants and the oil filled, and that's a lot of gases and welding, and then we have uh power equipment like chainsaws, lawnmowers, rototillars, and things like that.
00:20:19.250 --> 00:20:22.289
And there are all manners of things in between.
00:20:22.609 --> 00:20:34.369
And for me, the hardest thing is is learning enough of each aspect of that to feel confident to sell it to somebody.
00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:44.690
You know, there's there's definitely things that were complicated, you know, in terms of like HR or government paperwork and and things like that.
00:20:44.849 --> 00:20:50.769
But really, you know, if you're you work at a coffee shop, understand coffee's not so bad.
00:20:51.089 --> 00:20:56.529
You sell stuff at Best Buy, working with electronics, there's a certain groove you're gonna have.
00:20:56.690 --> 00:21:14.690
But with the difference in product offerings that we have and in having to actually sell that with the customer face to face, actually having enough knowledge of each product, each brand, the changes that come over time, it that's definitely the hardest.
00:21:14.849 --> 00:21:15.170
Right.
00:21:15.329 --> 00:21:15.730
Yeah.
00:21:16.049 --> 00:21:21.490
Yeah, because then you're you're the the more effective thing is to sell people solutions, not products.
00:21:21.730 --> 00:21:25.009
So you don't know the solution if you don't know the products.
00:21:25.250 --> 00:21:26.529
Very much it's a thing.
00:21:26.690 --> 00:21:28.289
They say they want this thing, okay.
00:21:28.450 --> 00:21:29.730
I'll sell you that thing.
00:21:29.890 --> 00:21:30.129
Right.
00:21:30.289 --> 00:21:40.049
Um, but if you're if you truly under that understand that thing, then you can there's advice around it, there's how to use it, there's things to watch out for, there's the pitfalls, maybe.
00:21:40.450 --> 00:21:41.329
There's all that stuff.
00:21:41.410 --> 00:21:44.369
There's well, maybe that's not exactly the right thing you need.
00:21:44.450 --> 00:21:46.930
Maybe it's this thing over here, and here's why.
00:21:47.009 --> 00:21:51.250
And so yeah, that kind of knowledge does take a while to accumulate.
00:21:51.569 --> 00:21:56.289
And there's uh in different industries, there's different nicknames for tools.
00:21:56.690 --> 00:22:07.170
And so you have to know enough about the product that you carry to be able to understand when someone's asking for something, what they're you know, someone will ask for something that we've never heard before.
00:22:07.490 --> 00:22:09.970
Usually the first question is, well, what are you using it for?
00:22:10.049 --> 00:22:11.569
What are you wanting to do?
00:22:12.049 --> 00:22:13.250
You can get a better idea.
00:22:13.329 --> 00:22:19.890
There's some terms, especially in the industrial world, that you know, I don't know, the language is a little colorful.
00:22:20.129 --> 00:22:20.369
Sure.
00:22:20.529 --> 00:22:24.450
And you know, the first time you hear that, you think someone's just cussing at you.
00:22:24.609 --> 00:22:31.009
But in actuality, it's it's a tool or you know, some kind of equipment that they use every day.
00:22:31.170 --> 00:22:33.490
And when they ask for it, they expect you to know that.
00:22:33.650 --> 00:22:33.809
Right.
00:22:34.049 --> 00:22:36.369
So it can be very difficult.
00:22:36.609 --> 00:22:37.490
Very difficult.
00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:38.210
Yeah.
00:22:38.450 --> 00:22:39.410
Pick it up.
00:22:40.129 --> 00:22:42.769
Industrial slang from several industries.
00:22:43.089 --> 00:22:44.769
Yes, yeah, yes, yeah.
00:22:45.650 --> 00:22:50.690
If you could solve one challenge in the business tomorrow, what would that be?
00:22:53.089 --> 00:22:55.890
Oh gosh, one challenge.
00:22:57.970 --> 00:23:04.769
There, I mean a lot of what I've dealt with recently, there's there's a lot.
00:23:05.329 --> 00:23:11.170
Of governmental issues, but I don't think I could ever solve that, even with the magic wand.
00:23:11.809 --> 00:23:29.569
Um, probably one of the things that I have the most issue with at the time is is a lot of the major brands that we deal with, you know, having them is a privilege being able to offer those products and sell them.
00:23:29.890 --> 00:23:36.690
But what those major brands do for a company like mine, where I'm smaller, I don't have as much purchasing power and things like that.
00:23:36.849 --> 00:23:45.329
So uh the support, the margins on the products we sell, the just being able to communicate with them is very difficult.
00:23:45.490 --> 00:23:47.170
So that's one thing I'd like to change.
00:23:47.329 --> 00:24:05.009
Either uh making it so major brands didn't have as much power as they do, or giving uh more common sense to those CFOs and CEOs of those companies, and you know, allowing them to work with us in a in a better sense.
00:24:05.170 --> 00:24:06.930
I I guess that would be the best.
00:24:07.089 --> 00:24:07.730
Yeah.
00:24:08.129 --> 00:24:15.809
I was just uh running through all kinds, it's a thing I do, it's non-stop ideas whenever I'm talking to somebody.
00:24:16.049 --> 00:24:25.250
Um there are people, smaller operators that um get these companies to just give them stuff, right?
00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:28.210
And they're it's because they're creators and they have an audience and whatnot.
00:24:28.289 --> 00:24:38.609
And so I was thinking, I wonder how valid that would be for you to create an audience, be the advice guy in this kind of arena.
00:24:39.170 --> 00:24:42.129
Like it, like I said earlier, I'm not a big social media guy.
00:24:42.210 --> 00:24:47.730
We've looked at it, and that's something you know, with any business, it it takes a lot of care and attention.
00:24:47.890 --> 00:24:50.529
And if you're not into social media, it's difficult.
00:24:50.769 --> 00:24:53.250
Um we do, we've seen it.
00:24:53.410 --> 00:25:01.970
Uh we actually were working with a major brand and a uh content creator on a issue that he's had.
00:25:02.049 --> 00:25:06.049
He bought a product, it didn't work, and then they're being very helpful to him.
00:25:06.210 --> 00:25:15.490
And in all honesty, it I almost feel as if they're being more helpful with this content creator than they are with me as a as a provider of their product.
00:25:15.730 --> 00:25:17.250
It's kind of interesting to see that stuff.
00:25:17.490 --> 00:25:30.450
That's what I'm saying, because I've seen that over and over, and um because the that brand understands the the reach that this person's gonna have in relation to their brand.
00:25:30.529 --> 00:25:32.930
So they need to make sure that that happens in the right way.
00:25:33.569 --> 00:25:35.970
Free advertising or word of mouthers.
00:25:38.930 --> 00:25:44.129
So when it's just I'm doing air quotes here, just a retailer.
00:25:44.609 --> 00:25:50.849
I mean, and then it's something, you know, like as a small business, you'd try to treat all your customers the same.
00:25:51.170 --> 00:25:53.890
It's you know, it's impossible to do, but you try to.
00:25:53.970 --> 00:25:54.129
Yeah.
00:25:54.289 --> 00:25:57.089
And you would like to see that from a major brand as well.
00:25:57.329 --> 00:26:03.009
But yeah, it's always the the bigger dollar signs or the most voices, of course.
00:26:03.490 --> 00:26:03.809
Yeah.
00:26:04.210 --> 00:26:16.210
There's probably some people in the bigger brand company that feel that way, but the rest of everybody is just employees collecting a paycheck, doing a job, and so there is no passion there.
00:26:16.289 --> 00:26:20.129
It's yeah, it's the thing I do, and some of them are better at it than others, and yeah.
00:26:20.609 --> 00:26:22.849
Money's money's almost always the driver.
00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:23.170
Yeah.
00:26:23.329 --> 00:26:23.809
Almost always.
00:26:24.049 --> 00:26:24.450
Yeah.
00:26:25.089 --> 00:26:28.849
Where where would you like Knowles to be in the next few years?
00:26:29.809 --> 00:26:30.609
Few years.
00:26:30.849 --> 00:26:47.089
Uh so you know, since I've started taking over operations and then in the last five years actually being in control, my main focus has been um expansion of distribution um outside of our general area.
00:26:47.329 --> 00:26:56.849
We do do uh we have uh we own another business that we do some wholesaling on some leather goods, and we do pretty well with that.
00:26:56.930 --> 00:27:15.170
It's it's nothing major, but uh we distribute kind I want to I like to always say like within the Rockies region, Wyoming, uh Colorado, Arizona, Utah, uh uh parts of Texas, New Mexico, and want to expand what that distribution is.
00:27:15.329 --> 00:27:20.049
It's been kind of narrow-sided in terms of what we offer and how we operate within that.
00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:29.250
And part of the change in software and what I've been working through over the past real focus, the last five years or so, has been to to increase what that is.
00:27:29.490 --> 00:27:29.730
Yeah.
00:27:29.890 --> 00:27:30.210
Yeah.
00:27:30.529 --> 00:27:30.849
Okay.
00:27:31.410 --> 00:27:32.529
Very cool.
00:27:33.089 --> 00:27:39.329
Um, are there are there opportunities that you see that you haven't been able to pursue yet?
00:27:41.329 --> 00:27:49.970
That's probably the biggest one is is expansion outside of our general, so you know, San Juan County and and it's, you know, I like to call Four Corners its own state.
00:27:50.129 --> 00:28:03.970
You know, there's definitely parts within the Four Corners that, you know, Four Farmington's kind of the hub of the major city of what the Four Corners is, as small of a, you know, as many rural communities are within that area.
00:28:04.129 --> 00:28:10.369
And, you know, we do pretty well inside of that, but definitely expansion outside of what that is.
00:28:10.609 --> 00:28:17.009
Regional, national, if I were to get lucky, I don't see that in three years, maybe a little bit, but yeah.
00:28:17.809 --> 00:28:19.329
Don't shut it down before you drive.
00:28:19.569 --> 00:28:21.250
Uh if it happens, it happens.
00:28:21.329 --> 00:28:24.049
I'm always open to possibilities.
00:28:24.450 --> 00:28:29.170
If you if you had more time or resources, what would you focus on improving first?
00:28:31.009 --> 00:28:37.329
Uh probably more so logistics with time and money, logistics, that kind of thing.
00:28:37.490 --> 00:28:48.769
I'd uh, you know, how we operate, find it's basically what I've been doing the last two years is refining what that is, um, cutting the fat, so to speak, where are we losing money?
00:28:48.930 --> 00:28:50.849
Where do we can we gain money?
00:28:51.009 --> 00:28:55.890
Um, and then just that what that presence is in the the distribution side.
00:28:55.970 --> 00:28:58.930
Uh how can we get things out to customers better?
00:28:59.089 --> 00:29:05.490
How can we get our face in into customers, the the businesses we deal with, so on.
00:29:05.650 --> 00:29:06.450
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:06.769 --> 00:29:07.250
Cool.
00:29:07.410 --> 00:29:07.730
Yeah.
00:29:08.690 --> 00:29:12.049
Well, um, what do you think makes doing business here?
00:29:12.210 --> 00:29:16.450
You mentioned like kind of consider the four corners its own state.
00:29:16.609 --> 00:29:19.089
Yeah um, and that's kind of true.
00:29:19.569 --> 00:29:25.890
And so even though it's crossing the borders of three other states, it's kind of its own thing.
00:29:26.049 --> 00:29:32.769
Um, so besides that, maybe including that, what do you think make makes doing business here so unique?
00:29:33.410 --> 00:29:46.690
Uh to me, it's that, you know, it's its own area, obviously the four corners, and then you it bleeds out into some more the Navajo Nation, Hickoria Reservation, Apache.
00:29:47.009 --> 00:29:52.129
Uh, you have the Durango area, what's coming in from Utah?
00:29:52.289 --> 00:29:54.930
There's there's so many different people here.
00:29:55.009 --> 00:30:15.650
And then we have uh the coal and the power plants and the oil field, and then you have some manufacturing that's here, and uh then there's you know, you wouldn't think it living in the high plains desert that there's so much for landscapers, and you know, there's there's really a very it's very diverse here.
00:30:16.049 --> 00:30:21.970
And the one cus you know, you deal with one customer, the next customer could be completely different.
00:30:22.129 --> 00:30:41.250
You could go from uh trying to speak Navajo with a customer and get them something as simple as a chain for a chainsaw, and then all of a sudden you're dealing with the foreman of a power plant and trying to figure out a five-10, thousand dollar order or something like that, and all manners in between.
00:30:41.410 --> 00:30:48.930
Uh like one of my favorite customers recently, it was uh a single woman, a little older.
00:30:49.009 --> 00:31:13.890
Uh, she's researching lawnmowers, and she was in here trying to figure out which one she wanted, and she she thought she knew when she got here, and she had seen so many different things, but then when she was actually here and started talking to about and talking about this completely different, but she was a a customer that isn't quite my client base, not our real customer we see every day.
00:31:14.049 --> 00:31:14.210
Sure.
00:31:14.450 --> 00:31:17.170
Um, we definitely have them, but not as many.
00:31:17.490 --> 00:31:25.730
And it's nice to help someone like that and and have them see what you bring to the table.
00:31:25.809 --> 00:31:26.049
Yeah.
00:31:26.529 --> 00:31:30.369
So but that that's definitely one of the the most unique things in our areas.
00:31:30.609 --> 00:31:35.009
There's just there's not this one type of customer you're gonna deal with.
00:31:35.170 --> 00:31:37.329
There's there's a lot of different kinds of people here.
00:31:37.809 --> 00:32:01.890
So that's kind of touch-in um on a on an earlier point when we're talking about um you know being being out there and dealing with customers and and whatnot, and and maybe they come in here to get the customer service that they're not getting at a box store and then leave and go get the cheaper price somewhere.
00:32:02.129 --> 00:32:06.369
Um but there's there's still some benefit in that.
00:32:06.529 --> 00:32:07.730
Do you do you think?
00:32:07.890 --> 00:32:10.049
Like oh, there definitely can be.
00:32:10.210 --> 00:32:13.250
Uh obviously it's how we approach that customer.
00:32:13.329 --> 00:32:13.569
Yeah.
00:32:13.890 --> 00:32:25.809
Um, if we you know talk to them for a couple minutes and we get the idea that they're just here to ask questions and leave, and we let that happen, then you're you're not gonna get any benefit out of it.
00:32:26.049 --> 00:32:49.250
But if you talk to them for a couple minutes and you see that's gonna happen, but you you're still trying, you're still being as helpful as you would be with someone that you were used to seeing all the time, or you knew they were gonna spend the money anyway, then you know, they're gonna remember you when they go to make another purchase, or they're gonna remember you when one of their other friends is talking about making some kind of similar purchase, or you know, yeah.
00:32:50.289 --> 00:32:53.009
It helps with that word of mouth, essentially.
00:32:53.250 --> 00:32:53.490
Yeah.
00:32:53.730 --> 00:33:13.009
That's what I was thinking, is that um I don't remember who was telling that story, but talking to uh I think it was Mercedes, like the Mercedes CEO or something way back, and talking about all the commercials and like, dude, this seriously, what are the commercials about?
00:33:13.170 --> 00:33:25.410
I mean, because when I'm ready to buy a car, I have an idea of a maybe a couple few different cars that I want, and your commercial isn't swaying me at all.
00:33:25.569 --> 00:33:26.529
Like it's not.
00:33:26.769 --> 00:33:31.569
And and the guy told him, Yeah, that commercial is not for you, it's for that kid.
00:33:31.809 --> 00:33:50.849
The kid, the teenager, the 12-year-old or whatever that is just starting to kind of understand things and like sees a commercial about this like swanky car and starts building this dream in his head that, oh, when I get older, I'm gonna get a job and get enough money to drive that car.
00:33:50.930 --> 00:33:52.289
That's when I will have made it.
00:33:52.369 --> 00:33:53.730
I'm gonna drive that car.
00:33:53.970 --> 00:33:58.609
So yeah, we're showing that commercial to that kid over 10, 20 years.
00:33:59.170 --> 00:33:59.890
Planting a seed.
00:34:00.129 --> 00:34:03.170
Yeah, to to to grow an idea in their head.
00:34:03.329 --> 00:34:08.450
And so I try to apply that sort of knowledge to other things.
00:34:08.690 --> 00:34:25.410
I mean, that doesn't directly apply to you, but but um for someone that comes in looking for advice and then goes somewhere and buys something, um a little piece of them is gonna remember that, and maybe a time comes up later that they are not sure again.
00:34:25.490 --> 00:34:31.570
So they think, well, actually, these guys were awesome here, so I'm gonna pop in there again and get some advice.
00:34:31.650 --> 00:34:34.289
And then maybe they also leave and go buy it somewhere else again.
00:34:34.369 --> 00:34:43.490
But that third time, or the fourth time, or the fifth time, or they tell their friends, like you were saying, they tell you, yeah, dude, go talk to Elvin, man, he'll like hook you up.
00:34:43.730 --> 00:34:46.610
And and not all of them are gonna leave and go somewhere else.
00:34:46.690 --> 00:34:53.170
But in the meantime, that that uh that idea is spreading that like you have the answers.
00:34:53.570 --> 00:34:57.650
Because the other guys that you're getting that's offering the cheap price, it's cheap because they don't have any answers.
00:34:57.890 --> 00:34:58.130
Right.
00:34:58.210 --> 00:34:58.450
Yeah.
00:34:58.690 --> 00:35:01.730
Well, that's and that's where consistency comes in to me.
00:35:01.890 --> 00:35:10.050
Because if you're helpful the first or even the second time, but then you're not so much on the third time, then you've you know you've wasted those first two opportunities.
00:35:10.289 --> 00:35:10.530
Yeah.
00:35:10.769 --> 00:35:18.130
And now with like box stores, the consistency is the not getting help or what you just it's gonna be cheap.
00:35:18.210 --> 00:35:18.610
That's fine.
00:35:19.170 --> 00:35:21.410
They'll take it back whenever everything's fine.
00:35:21.490 --> 00:35:22.050
It's it's okay.
00:35:22.210 --> 00:35:22.290
Right.
00:35:22.370 --> 00:35:23.650
That's what it's what I'm used to.
00:35:23.890 --> 00:35:24.130
Yeah.
00:35:24.290 --> 00:35:24.450
Yeah.
00:35:24.610 --> 00:35:24.930
Yeah.
00:35:25.090 --> 00:35:25.330
Yeah.
00:35:25.730 --> 00:35:30.530
What what advice would you give um someone starting a business here?
00:35:31.970 --> 00:35:33.570
They're have a good idea.
00:35:33.730 --> 00:35:44.210
It's this very difficult economy, not just you know, with everything going on worldwide, but in our own community, what what's happening, what's changing, where are you really going?
00:35:44.290 --> 00:35:51.330
Uh if you were gonna start a business here, one location, that would be the probably the biggest thing.
00:35:51.410 --> 00:35:56.850
Because this, you know, Farmington in and of itself, it's so polarized between the east and the west side.
00:35:57.010 --> 00:36:02.530
What are you know, yeah, what business are you gonna be starting, and where are you gonna put that?
00:36:02.770 --> 00:36:04.930
That's probably the most important.
00:36:05.090 --> 00:36:09.570
And then staff is probably the next one.
00:36:09.730 --> 00:36:15.490
Staff is difficult, probably anywhere you are, but it it can be especially difficult here, I think.
00:36:15.650 --> 00:36:29.410
Yeah, there's there's people that don't want to work, don't want to come in for interviews, and then there's um you know, there's different expectations for employees, older or younger.
00:36:29.490 --> 00:36:39.570
You know, people, I think, especially over the last few years, they they really want to live their own life regardless of what their job is, and you have to be aware of that.
00:36:39.730 --> 00:36:40.050
Yeah.
00:36:40.210 --> 00:36:42.850
And you have to be willing to concede on some of that.
00:36:43.010 --> 00:36:48.850
You can't expect someone to work themselves to the bone for you anymore, which I I don't expect that.
00:36:49.010 --> 00:36:50.610
I would never have expected that.
00:36:50.690 --> 00:36:59.250
But there's you know, people in the the retiring age that they don't see that anymore and they complain about it.
00:36:59.330 --> 00:37:07.650
And I get part of that complaint, especially as a business owner, but the way the world has changed, you you just can't expect people to do that anymore.
00:37:07.730 --> 00:37:09.410
So find you a good employee.
00:37:09.650 --> 00:37:10.050
Yeah.
00:37:10.610 --> 00:37:16.930
I've been seeing sort of a uh a very slow-paced tug of war, right?
00:37:17.090 --> 00:37:29.090
So, so if you if you want to like etch it out per generation, like the baby boomers, they were the ones that they were gonna be loyal to their employer.
00:37:29.250 --> 00:37:33.330
And so they're gonna stick around for as long as their employer will let them stick around.
00:37:33.410 --> 00:37:35.250
Yeah, hopefully they'll get a retirement.
00:37:35.410 --> 00:37:42.210
And those and that was actually more prevalent back then, a retirement from your employer and whatnot.
00:37:42.370 --> 00:37:50.930
And then you know, my generation came along, Gen X, and we were figuring out, yeah, no, I don't like that, I don't like that system.
00:37:51.090 --> 00:37:55.090
I don't like, I'm I'm not gonna die for this employer because they're not loyal to me.
00:37:55.170 --> 00:37:56.050
I'm not gonna be.
00:37:56.610 --> 00:37:59.410
You can be as loyal as you can, and they're still gonna.
00:37:59.570 --> 00:38:10.850
I had uh uh my sister-in-law worked for years for a company, and they just they came up with a ridiculous reason to get rid of her so they could, you know, save some money.
00:38:11.490 --> 00:38:15.170
I I because I was I was actually part of part of that's happened to me.
00:38:15.250 --> 00:38:22.770
I was laid off and and it it's where layoffs and in the baby boomer era, yeah, that was a really taboo subject.
00:38:22.930 --> 00:38:26.050
You did not want to be in the news as a company who was laying people off.
00:38:26.450 --> 00:38:33.490
Um, but now well, actually years ago, at least 20 years ago, it was it became a a management technique.
00:38:33.650 --> 00:38:33.970
Yep.
00:38:34.210 --> 00:38:38.850
It was, you know, you lay people off when things slow down, you hire them back when things pick up.
00:38:39.010 --> 00:38:40.210
It's just a management technique.
00:38:40.290 --> 00:38:56.210
And so there's one company that's the most appalling, they're a larger, probably a global brand, I won't name them, but they their CEO literally fired like 20,000 employees, factory workers, so that he could get a bonus.
00:38:56.370 --> 00:38:56.530
Yeah.
00:38:56.690 --> 00:39:09.410
And I mean that's probably commonplace now, but it's it's just crazy to me that you would sacrifice the well well-being of all these people just so you could buy an extra car, a boat, or get, you know, whatever it is.
00:39:09.570 --> 00:39:09.890
Yeah.
00:39:10.050 --> 00:39:10.290
Yeah.
00:39:10.530 --> 00:39:10.850
Yeah.
00:39:11.170 --> 00:39:11.810
Insane.
00:39:12.050 --> 00:39:13.250
It is insane.
00:39:14.210 --> 00:39:18.690
Um, is there a local business that here that you admire?
00:39:19.170 --> 00:39:20.450
That I admire.
00:39:20.610 --> 00:39:21.250
Yeah.
00:39:21.810 --> 00:39:24.370
Uh there's probably a few.
00:39:24.610 --> 00:39:32.050
Um being a uh decent-sized gentleman, I like a lot of the the restaurants around here.
00:39:32.530 --> 00:39:41.810
Uh, you know, Dona Maria's, uh Francesca's the Mexican restaurants, uh Los Rios, the owner there, uh Gabe Metamoris.
00:39:41.890 --> 00:39:44.290
He is a great guy, great guy.
00:39:44.530 --> 00:39:50.370
Uh Sam from uh Los Hermanitos, Sam Gonzalez, uh great business.
00:39:50.530 --> 00:39:57.570
They they struggled a lot through COVID and and all that, but he's still going and he's turning that over to his kids.
00:39:57.810 --> 00:40:08.450
Um anything in outside of the the first generation, I always admired, you know, I'm third generation and I see the problems that you get from that.
00:40:08.530 --> 00:40:12.850
Uh there's a we call them kind of like a a sister company.
00:40:13.010 --> 00:40:31.650
We're not related or anything, but Deweys Tool is similar business, but uh they're in their second to I don't know if they'll be looking at a third generation, but you know, they've had that a lot of same struggles and things, and they're still going.
00:40:31.970 --> 00:40:34.610
Um trying to think any other.
00:40:35.010 --> 00:40:37.410
I mean, there's quite a few that have done a lot here.
00:40:37.570 --> 00:40:41.890
There's a lot of small businesses in our community that have done a lot of things.
00:40:42.290 --> 00:40:45.730
And I feel feel like I'm leaving plenty on the table.
00:40:46.530 --> 00:40:47.730
But those are a few.
00:40:47.970 --> 00:40:48.370
Cool.
00:40:48.450 --> 00:40:48.770
Yeah.
00:40:49.010 --> 00:40:49.250
Yeah.
00:40:49.490 --> 00:40:54.930
Gabe is one that um when I w because I like hot food.
00:40:55.170 --> 00:40:58.690
Oh, when I want hot food, I can actually get it there.
00:40:58.850 --> 00:41:07.650
Yeah, it's everything is you know, the average person can't deal with the amount of heat that I want, and so things come way closer to average.
00:41:07.890 --> 00:41:08.370
No, you'll get it.
00:41:08.530 --> 00:41:13.970
And I go to a restaurant and I want hot, and they're like, okay, this this is be careful.
00:41:14.130 --> 00:41:15.490
And I'm going, really though?
00:41:15.650 --> 00:41:17.010
It's like that's not hot.
00:41:17.250 --> 00:41:18.530
But yeah, I can get it there.
00:41:18.690 --> 00:41:20.050
Yeah, no, this food's great.
00:41:20.130 --> 00:41:21.010
Yeah, I love it.
00:41:21.490 --> 00:41:22.930
Good stuff.
00:41:23.490 --> 00:41:34.930
Um so looking over, we're gonna start wrapping up here, but looking over um the next year or two, what would success really look like for Knowles?
00:41:36.610 --> 00:41:48.450
Uh probably the first for me is employee retention and being able to do more for employees, uh, you know, family-owned business.
00:41:48.610 --> 00:41:55.250
There's people that you know my dad worked here for 50 years, and there are employees that worked here almost as long.
00:41:55.410 --> 00:41:58.130
Uh, another employee had retired just last year.
00:41:58.290 --> 00:42:07.490
He'd been here probably he was like in his early 20s, and you know, he's like, I want to say he was like 70 when he retired.
00:42:07.570 --> 00:42:19.410
Yeah, I've got two other employees right now who together, I want to say they're uh probably at about 60, 65 years of employment here.
00:42:19.890 --> 00:42:30.770
Um I've been here for 23, 24 years, but I have, oh gosh, three employees outside of those other.
00:42:31.090 --> 00:42:34.610
So five probably employees total that have been here longer than I have.
00:42:34.770 --> 00:42:35.010
Yeah.
00:42:35.170 --> 00:42:37.170
Um, and uh I like that.
00:42:37.330 --> 00:42:48.450
I like building a good atmosphere for my employees to work in where they feel like they can come to work and be happy and I don't have to worry about what's going on at home because they're taking care of, you know, small business.
00:42:48.610 --> 00:42:54.130
Like there's not a lot I can do, but being able to take care of them uh is definitely one of the things.
00:42:54.370 --> 00:42:55.490
Um, some growth.
00:42:55.570 --> 00:42:56.530
I'm I'm not concerned.
00:42:56.610 --> 00:43:07.330
I'm not trying to be Jeff Bezos or you know, anything like that, but uh definitely some some kind of growth, subs uh sustainable growth in within the company.
00:43:07.490 --> 00:43:12.050
So I know 10 years from now everything is looking good.
00:43:12.210 --> 00:43:12.530
Yeah.
00:43:12.690 --> 00:43:13.730
So awesome.
00:43:13.890 --> 00:43:14.370
Yeah.
00:43:14.690 --> 00:43:20.050
Yeah, I mean, um we just we just touched on that, right?
00:43:20.130 --> 00:43:36.770
The the change from loyal employees who may have just been abused and still stayed loyal to the change of mindset right now that that no, I'm not gonna be lawyer loyal loyal to an employer um because they're not loyal to me.
00:43:36.930 --> 00:43:37.090
Right.
00:43:37.330 --> 00:43:48.610
So in that world that we're in, it's easier for you to do as a small business owner to to make your employees feel like you actually care about them and their lives.
00:43:48.770 --> 00:43:57.490
Yeah, and that's gotta have an impact because they could leave and go somewhere else, but then that employer is not gonna care about them like at all.
00:43:57.810 --> 00:43:57.890
True.
00:43:58.210 --> 00:44:03.250
I've had many an employee leave for more money, which I don't blame them one bit.
00:44:03.490 --> 00:44:08.130
And I've had some of the good ones come back because they know the difference.
00:44:08.450 --> 00:44:13.650
You know, they can take off when their kid's sick or they got a soccer game or whatever it is.
00:44:13.890 --> 00:44:24.050
And you know, obviously money's important, especially these days, but but being able to spend that time with your family or take care of yourself when you need to, they do respect that.
00:44:24.130 --> 00:44:30.210
So and money's only actually one aspect of a whole bunch of aspects that play a part in that.
00:44:30.290 --> 00:44:32.610
So it's not always the thing.
00:44:32.690 --> 00:44:42.450
You don't always have to outpay your employees compared to someone else to to get them to stick around because of just an environment and you know just that's the hope.
00:44:42.610 --> 00:44:42.930
That thing.
00:44:43.410 --> 00:44:44.530
That's the hope.
00:44:45.410 --> 00:44:52.850
Um, I've been doing this thing, so we're we're we're gonna do a lightning round.
00:44:53.090 --> 00:44:53.170
Okay.
00:44:53.810 --> 00:44:57.170
First thing that pops off the top of your head, and then we'll then we'll call it good.
00:44:57.410 --> 00:44:58.290
I'll try to be quick.
00:44:58.530 --> 00:45:02.690
Um you've actually listed several favorite local restaurant.
00:45:03.490 --> 00:45:04.530
Oh, favorite local.
00:45:05.010 --> 00:45:08.050
Uh I honestly it's actually teriyaki chicken combo.
00:45:08.530 --> 00:45:09.490
That's my favorite.
00:45:09.810 --> 00:45:13.250
Uh best business advice you've received.
00:45:14.370 --> 00:45:15.490
Uh there's two.
00:45:15.650 --> 00:45:23.570
One is get it in writing, and uh one is get it in writing, two, uh, you know, you it's still gonna be there.
00:45:23.890 --> 00:45:24.770
It's still gonna be there.
00:45:25.090 --> 00:45:25.650
Yeah.
00:45:26.130 --> 00:45:29.570
One thing customers might not know about your business.
00:45:30.610 --> 00:45:36.050
Uh we offer a wealth of products that aren't just industrial.
00:45:36.210 --> 00:45:41.170
We oh actually, probably the best one is that we've been in ace hardware forever.
00:45:41.410 --> 00:45:43.810
We were ace before the ace that's here.
00:45:43.970 --> 00:45:44.370
Right.
00:45:44.530 --> 00:45:50.610
Um, and I have I'm not branded as an ace, but I offer most anything that an ace hardware can get you.
00:45:50.770 --> 00:45:54.450
So that's a nice one that not a lot of people know.
00:45:56.290 --> 00:45:57.490
Dan, yeah.
00:45:58.130 --> 00:46:00.210
Too bad you can't put that on the tagline.
00:46:01.090 --> 00:46:03.730
I I say it every once in a while when it comes up.
00:46:03.810 --> 00:46:07.890
You know, we have things with the ace brand, and people, oh, did you get this from Ace?
00:46:08.210 --> 00:46:11.330
No, we're an ace, and I like to say we were Ace before it was cool.
00:46:11.810 --> 00:46:12.050
Yeah.
00:46:13.570 --> 00:46:14.050
Yeah.
00:46:14.370 --> 00:46:15.010
Awesome.
00:46:15.250 --> 00:46:15.570
Awesome.
00:46:15.810 --> 00:46:16.530
Well, cool, man.
00:46:16.610 --> 00:46:18.450
Thanks for coming on the show and chatting with me.
00:46:18.850 --> 00:46:19.330
Thanks for having me.
00:46:19.410 --> 00:46:19.730
It's fun.
00:46:20.050 --> 00:46:20.610
So yeah.
00:46:21.330 --> 00:46:26.850
I don't come down here often enough, so I don't remember the last time I was in this building.
00:46:27.010 --> 00:46:28.530
It's been a while.
00:46:29.410 --> 00:46:31.410
Actually, a really long time, I think.
00:46:31.650 --> 00:46:35.170
It would have been one of those things like, oh wow, these guys are still around.
00:46:36.050 --> 00:46:37.250
Well, shame on you.
00:46:37.490 --> 00:46:37.810
Right.
00:46:39.570 --> 00:46:41.090
Well, man, thanks, Evan.
00:46:41.250 --> 00:46:41.730
This is great.
00:46:41.890 --> 00:46:42.690
Thanks again.