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Based on the sources provided, here is the transcript for the podcast episode regarding the game Tunic.
Host (Wesley Slover): I love video games. I mean, they utilize so many forms of creative expression to engage a player's eyes, ears, thumbs, and brains. It's no small task making a game. So, when all these aspects coalesce well, I think it's a really special thing. This is the Collab Collection, where we collect stories and useful insights about creative collaboration. I'm Wesley Slover.
In this episode, we explore what happened when an indie developer realized early on in the process that while he could handle most of the development himself, he would need help with a soundtrack for his game Tunic. The premise of Tunic is pretty simple: it features a cute anthropomorphized little fox guy who finds themselves in this mysterious world where they fight monsters, collect strange items, and unravel mysteries. But Tunic started with one person's vision.
Andrew Shouldice: Hi, my name is Andrew Shouldice and I was the primary developer on Tunic. I was working at a local game studio that focused mostly on hidden object games. It was fun, but it wasn't especially fulfilling. And there was a certain point where I thought if I don't quit my job and see what I can do, then I'll always wonder what would have happened if I had done that.
Host (Wesley Slover): So in 2015, Andrew struck out on his own to make Tunic. At its core, Tunic has always been a game about discovering secrets. Andrew kept a list of things that gave him the feeling he wanted his game to evoke. One of those things was a music album by Terence Lee, otherwise known as the artist Life Formed. Andrew knew he wasn't going to be able to compose the music himself, so he sent Terence a message.
Terence Lee: I guess I started pretty early on, 2015, I think. Andrew had been working on the prototype for the game and he emailed me. We both had the understanding that like it wasn't anywhere close to being done yet. I really liked what he was doing and I really respected his approach to making games, so I felt like there was a connection there. I felt like I could trust him as a developer to be able to execute.
Host (Wesley Slover): Andrew also knew he would need help with the sound design. A friend introduced him to Kevin Regamey, the creative director and co-founder of PowerUp Audio.
Kevin Regamey: So Andrew reached out and said, "Hey, I need sound one day. What do you think? Here's my game". We said, "Yeah, it looks pretty cool. Do you have anything to show us like a build or something?". So he sent us a combat prototype. And so we dig into this thing, and there was like 6 hours of gameplay. Our whole team was like, "Who the hell is this guy? Like what is going on?". Yeah. We were immediately hooked.
Host (Wesley Slover): To show Andrew what the game could sound like, they recorded a short 45-second video clip and created sound for it. But Kevin couldn't leave it at that. Tunic uses a mysterious glyph language, and Kevin realized it could be deciphered.
Kevin Regamey: Literally it was 11:00 p.m. I was staring at my ceiling and I could not sleep. All I wanted to do is solve this damn cipher. So, I woke up, got out of bed, went to my desk, and 8 hours later, I'd solved the thing. So, at the end of that video mockup, we faded to black and then we faded back in and what faded onto the screen was a message in mysterious glyphs.
Andrew Shouldice: I had written these glyphs many times, but I had no idea how to read them. So, I scrambled to get my cheat sheet to understand what they had said. And it was something along the lines of "sound treatment by PowerUp Audio. Cool game, bro". It was certainly an effective pitch.
Host (Wesley Slover): At this point, the team was assembled. Instead of describing the specific music he wanted, Andrew's directorial process was to explain the mood and energy of an area.
Terence Lee: He'd show me the visuals and the gameplay and kind of talk to me about the general mood for the area. And that was about it. And from there, I would kind of interpret that. I really appreciate that he just trusted me to make it work. Looking back, I've realized it would be hard for me to be forced to make music for a specific area that had to sound in a specific way.
Host (Wesley Slover): In 2018, Terence was invited to perform live at a music festival in Seattle. He thought maybe he should invite musical artist Janice Kwan to sing with him.
Janice Kwan: And that was the first time we met in person and that went really well.
Terence Lee: Yeah. And then we got married.
Janice Kwan: Shortly after that. Around this time, I started working on Tunic's soundtrack with Terence. I think in the beginning he would just ask for my help on a few things like, "Can you just come and sit down and give me a bunch of like piano melodies or something?".
Terence Lee: Yeah, I remember the first one we collaborated on. We both sat down at the piano and you were just playing and I would record and stop and bookmark all the parts I really liked.
Janice Kwan: But then later on it was more like, "Let's both sketch some ideas and then show each other and then see what we both like". By "sending," meaning we're just sitting next to each other so we can hear what each other person is working on.
Host (Wesley Slover): While Terence and Janice were creating music, PowerUp Audio was working on the game's sound design, focusing on design pillars—core ideas that hold up a game's construction.
Kevin Regamey: How can we leverage sound to better support and drive those design pillars?. One of the design pillars was "hidden in plain sight". So, how do we take "hidden in plain sight" as a concept and do that with audio?. A way they accomplished this was by creating a musical cipher. This cipher shows up all over the game sound design. For example, when it's attacking, a little security robot drone says, "no foxes".
Host (Wesley Slover): But making games involves a lot of problem-solving. They ran into a major technical challenge involving the "listener"—the virtual ears inside the game.
Andrew Shouldice: That was something that I had never really considered until Kevin brought it up. The game had progressed far enough that we were hitting enough of these roadblocks that something had to give. But it was like years into development, we tore this whole thing out and did it again.
Kevin Regamey: In the grand scheme of things, the hardest part was really scratching our heads and figuring out the best way to approach it. The implementation was not terribly tricky, but the challenge was getting into the right headspace and really understanding what the problem is. It was definitely a matter of tearing out and just rebuilding it from the ground up.
Host (Wesley Slover): In 2021, a March 2022 release date was announced.
Terence Lee: That was stressful.
Kevin Regamey: We definitely ramped up a lot towards the end to actually get this damn game done. We've been 6 years in development and now we have a deadline.
Terence Lee: The final few months we were just waking up and then working and eating a big bowl of pasta.
Janice Kwan: Streamlining your daily life. So you can just wake up and sit at the desk until you fall asleep.
Terence Lee: Yeah. It's like kind of just running towards the finish line and just pushing ourselves. When it came to the main theme song, that one was actually the hardest to collaborate on because we both felt strongly about it and we're also really stressed out at that point. I had an idea for the melody at the beginning of the theme and Janice had another idea.
Janice Kwan: But I liked mine. It just felt personal to me. Maybe I just had too much pride in that.
Terence Lee: I think the reason why I relented on my end was because I saw a confidence in you about wanting to change it. I felt like I should trust you. I think that's the double-edged sword of working with your partner, which is you can trust each other so much, but then the downside is it becomes more personal and painful when you have to disagree.
Andrew Shouldice: The thought that I had staring at the ceiling at night wondering, "Oh no, have I made a terrible mistake?". But having the support of the team encouraged me to keep going. They bolstered my resolve to make sure this thing got finished. I feel so blessed that I was able to work with people that I admire so much.
Host (Wesley Slover): After about 7 years of work, Tunic was released and fans loved it. Andrew's advice for those who want to work with amazing people is to just reach out and talk to them.
Andrew Shouldice: Reach out and talk to those amazing people. Be a normal human and try to be friends with people that you admire. I feel like working on stuff in general, the hardest thing is just finding people you really connect with that are good to work with. When you do, it's such a precious thing. We really did make something special as a team together.
Host (Wesley Slover): This episode was written and produced by me, Wesley Slover. It was mixed by Trevor Richardson. Our artwork and branding was created by Audrey Haby. The Collab Collection is a project of Sanctus Audio. Hear our work at sanctus.audio, and if you could use a sonic collaborator, hit us up.
