Can Wealth Create Vulnerability?

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Welcome to Unlock in Vulnerability, the podcast that explores what
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vulnerability really looks like in everyday life. I'm Helen, and
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in each episode I'm joined by a different guest who
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will bring their unique insight and perspectives from across the
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vulnerability space. We'll discuss the realities behind vulnerability and what
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it takes to respond when people need additional support. We're
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glad to have you here, so grab a cup of
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tea and let's get started. Welcome back to Unlocking Vulnerability
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with me Helen Petterford. Today, I'm delighted to be joined
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by Patrick Foley, who is managing director at Sona Financial Services.
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Launched in February twenty twenty two. Sona Financial Services is
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a financial advice business aimed specifically at meeting the financial
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needs of professional footballers and business owners. Hello. Patrick, it's
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wonderful to have you on the podcast today.
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Morning, Helen, thank you for having me.
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You're welcome. I'm looking forward to our conversation. So before
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we get into the topic of vulnerability, do you want
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to give a brief introduction to yourself.
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Yes, I'm not originally from London, as you might tell,
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but I'm My office is in London now I'm here
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seventeen years originally from Kerry in Ireland and moved over
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in two thousand and nine on a graduate program and
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moved from there into a private bank, and I think
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that was probably my first experience of dealing with professional footballers,
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which was a real eye opening piece. And I did
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that for nearly seven years, at which point I then
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left the bank. And you know, I wasn't ready to
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run a financial advice firm at that point, but I
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knew I wanted to have an independent offering and work
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directly for those clients. So I was an IFA and
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independent financial advisor for five years at that point. Then
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I decided to apply to the FCA for my own
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firm license, which is extremely difficult to get but but
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that's good because it's there to protect clients and that's
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when I got the green light and launched. So in
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our financial services, I guess catering to clients that are,
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like you said, footballers, business owners, clients that are facing
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a pivotal change in their career. So you know you're
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getting young, you're young and getting a large contract early.
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You might be a company, business owner exiting and you
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kind of don't know where to turn. You've never had
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that money before, and there's a there's a vulnerability associated
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with that. And I guess recently as well, we've started
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getting involved in a number of high profile divorces. I
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think again similarly because those feelings, those vulnerabilities, where do
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I turn? Who do I trust? That that comes into
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play as well, So we can kind of have a
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theme across those type of clients to help them. And
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I think that's what Sonar is all about, not just
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how much can we invest for you, you know, which
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a lot of firms kind of that's the starting point.
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We're about the planning and the human of which you're
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investing will be part of that, but it's part of
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it rather than the starting point.
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Yeah. Absolutely, And I know that in our conversations, you know,
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we have talked about you given holistic support, which will
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sort of delve into a little bit more in the
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conversation today. So I the reason I invited you to
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come as a guest, I mean, it's interested in any
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way the work that you do, but it also almost
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sort of tips on its head people's perspective of vulnerability
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because obviously we you know, typically see vulnerability as people
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in debt, but of course you're supporting people who financial
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concerns is not there for them in the sort of
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vulnerability aspect. So thinking about sort of that the young
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professional football is that you are supporting, and I know
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that many of those are entering the Premier League, so
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we know that the amounts of money that sort of
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obviously they're earning at that age. So they are typically
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a uniquely vulnerable group in themselves, aren't they? So can
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you tell us more about that?
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Yeah, I think if you think about it, you know,
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you're eighteen, nineteen twenty, you're suddenly earning hundreds of thousands,
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but likely with the clients we deal with millions of
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pounds a year with very little actually lived experience of money,
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and it could be the same typically sometimes for parents.
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You know, parents of these players are forty forty one,
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forty two, and you know they've spent their time sacrificing
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a lot to drive their children up and down the
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motorway for training and whatnot, and now they've been unbelievable
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to achieve a first pro contract or a large contract,
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and they don't really know where to turn. At the
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same time, you've got the pressure the pressure from from
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family at times, from peers, from social media, you know,
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to spend to support to kind of keep up with
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the joneses and the lives that you're expected to have.
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So you know, you've got I suppose there's a combination
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of rapid wealth, low experience, and high pressure. These guys
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have to go in and perform to back up the
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justified contract that the club have given and you kind
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of you put all those three together, that's really where
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the vulnerability starts in our experience.
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Yeah, absolutely so, lots they're fit for us to unpick.
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So how are those players coping with those expectations? Obviously
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we've got the sort of financial expectations as you mentioned,
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the societal expectations, even perhaps the expectations they place on themselves.
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Yeah, yeah, they're very they're very demanding of themselves clearly
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to have that mentality to get to the level that
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they do. You know, there's a very very very small
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percentage of people that do that, so you are wired
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a certain way to get to that point. I think
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where we try and come in is help them by
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putting a plan in place and also making that automatic.
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So for example, you get paid on the first of
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the month and then right, you've got the various pots
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of money and it's kind of almost taken out of
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their hands by giving them a plan that's I suppose
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makes makes sense for them, so it's realistic. It's no
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good me saying, you know, you can have a spending
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budget of fifteen hundred pounds a month when you know
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they're in that life and I know that's not realistic.
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So we give them a realistic plan for now, but
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also kind of mark the card of the importance of
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you know, your future self when this crazy world you're
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in is over, trying to help them cope with with
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that because there is a lot of pressure associated with that,
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and also being the person that sometimes is the bad
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cop that says no to things because there's a pressure
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from outside world. These are investment opportunities they guess that
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come across our desks that maybe aren't bona fide a
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investment opportunities. Being that kind of safeguard, that sounding board
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I guess for them to take that pressure off them. Yeah.
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Absolutely, So there's lots and lots of risks involved, isn't
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that And actually would sort of mentioning actually those those
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business opportunities I say with inverted comments with my fingers there.
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You know, I can imagine that potentially once wealth is involved,
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lots of people, you know, sort of the term coming
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after the woodwork, potentially old friends, old colleagues, and you
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know they're sort of sort of interested I guess in
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being a part of that.
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Yeah, I think what helps is a lot of the
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clients that we take on, you know, their their homegrown
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or English, Irish, Scottish Welsh. You know, they've had their
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friends from the very very young. They're good grounded characters
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with with good families around them. Now that's not every client,
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because not every client is blessed to have two parents
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or whatnot and that family support. So we're almost needed
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more in those circumstances where maybe mom or dad may
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not be equipped to deal with having the conversations around
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the financial side of it. But yeah, I think giving
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them that sounding board where we don't get we don't
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earn more money because they invest more money. We we
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get we charge fans of fair monthly subscription fee. So
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whether I think they should be paying off their expensive
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debt or not taking out an expense of Carly's. You know,
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our job is to tell them that and to be
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imbaliand I suppose, yeah, independent of the irrational thinking at times.
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And I think that's where that sounding board comes in
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or which sometimes don't like to hear what we have
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to say. So again, you know, we've got to deal
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with that and and and that's fine. That's part of
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the job, and that's part of the education. But if
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we can get a majority of it right and get
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them out the other side of this mad world with
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a few few, very little bumps, ideally, then they should
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be set up for life, and so should their kids
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if we get it right together. Yeah.
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Absolutely, And it's it must be sort of quite overwhelming
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to sort of all of a sudden have this this
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wealth available to them that they want to sort of,
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you know, have the lifestyle that obviously comes alongside the
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Premier League football is you know, the car, the party is,
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the house, the you know, the designer where and things,
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you know, do you find to start with it? It
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goes to the head that they want to sort of
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go on those little bit of a spending spree. Do
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sometimes you need to sort of rain them in a bit.
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Yeah, And again I think if we build it in,
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I think it's important that they are in a high
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pressure environment. You need to give them the breeding space
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to have a life now as well. They are. They're
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in the high pressure environment now. But I think that's
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where early engagement and having a plan. So maybe even
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before the main contract gets signed, we're involved and we
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have the building blocks on the platform there in place,
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so when that first wage comes in, they almost don't
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get used to it, but they get used to maybe
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a higher spending allowance each month. Now it's not a
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target to hit, and we stress that. We stress that
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to our clients, but I do think giving the breeding
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space and making sure it's realistic. You're nineteen years of age,
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you're playing in the Premier league. Do you want to
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go to selfishes and buy some nice clothes and have
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a good night out with your friends and celebrate with
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friends and family. Absolutely to want to go on a
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nice holiday in the summer, but we also try and
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get things where we might link a new purchase of
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a nice car perhaps to you know, you hit certain
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amount of appearances or goals and set goals for yourself
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to reward yourself. Not just not just do it because
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you can, it's just to keep you motivated. And we
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find that that works well as well. But I think
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getting that balance between the future and the now because
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they're living in the now with the pressure now and
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we know what comes with that, injuries and things like
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that that they have to deal with. So definitely the
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human aspect of financial planning, we spend more time around
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that than we do. This is the best investment, you know,
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it's that human element.
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Yes, Yeah, And with that then, so you've obviously mentioned
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that they are sort of typically young, sort of eighteen
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nineteen twenty. We know that there's you know, sort of
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limited opportunities for life experience at that age. So how
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how is that level of life experience and impact in
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their ability to understand financial information? Obviously that's a huge
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part of FCA's consumer duty of consumer understanding. So what
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does that look like for your clients and their level
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of understanding?
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Yeah, they don typically at the start, they don't have it.
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You know, they have very limited and that's not a criticism,
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that's a reality. They've spent their earlier part of their
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lives getting to the top level of their career. You know,
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it's huge, but most people learn about money, and you know,
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we could talk all day about how schools don't do
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a good enough job in educating kids. When they're leaving
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school will know about pythe Agers's theorem, we won't know
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what a mortgage is, you know, real world lived and
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that's a real frustration. So we get involved in schools
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to try and try and help that as well. But
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I think most of us, in a vert of comments,
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learn about money gradually over decades, so if we make
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some mistakes, we've all done it. At the start. They're
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relatively inexpensive. These players are the opposite. They're compressing that
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learning into a very short period of time while their
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career is taking off, so they're trying to focus on that.
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They're trying to focus on family, and then you got
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the financial guy you know, ringing her girl, ringing them
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and saying, look, we need to sit down and discuss
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this and whatnot. So it can be daunting. So it's
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not to say they're irresponsible, but they've never had the
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chance to build those habits. So I guess we feel
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a very large onus and responsibility on our firm how
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we do things to make sure that that education piece
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is there. So, for example, you know, instead of sending
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out an annual review letter. We will present that to
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each client just to help them understand any new advice.
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Ideally we do that face to face, and sometimes it
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has to be done, you know, we break up the
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meeting so it's not just an hour of talking at
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the client. It's trying to break it down into bite
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sized chumps. And look, that's not to sound condescending. It
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can be a lot to take in trying to explain
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a pension to an eighteen year old footballer. You know,
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that's we have a responsibility to make sure that it's
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getting through and to be fair. With your help in
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your firm, we have adapted our ways and processes to
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cater to those clients, even down to like the branding,
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the colors we use, the terminology. It's been it's been,
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you know, with your help and your ongoing help, it's
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been great because sometimes we can't see the woods from
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the trees and we need to step out as if
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we're an eighteen nineteen year old client.
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Absolutely, because I remember that conversation because you shared a
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document and you know, sort of the first page was
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like sort of assets and liabilities, wasn't it? My question
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was with a nineteen year old noe what that meant.
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And again I'll talk for England and Ireland together. I
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didn't talk for five seconds there because I was like, actually,
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you're right, and again just having that lens on and
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that our industry is full of jargon. So what I think,
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what we're really good at is just breaking that down
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into plain English and in a usable medium for clients
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to understand. Or if we send out another report we
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talked through with the client, we'll then do a summary
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on a video perhaps so they can always refer back
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our mom and dad have something there. You know, we
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have an online app and the so in our vault
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where all their admin and documents are stored securely. We
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get involved in things like wills, oh, habitation agreements, pren ups,
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post ops like all that stuff as they go on
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the journey, and different things will be needed at different times,
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you know. I feel we're very well catered to know
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when to get involved in certain areas as their lives dictate.
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But again that's come from the last sixteen seventeen years.
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And again, whether you're a business owner just after exiting
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very daunting, whether you're just going through our high profile divorce,
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very daunting. So a lot of these things that we do.
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You know, they're useful across that kind of client.
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Base, absolutely, and I think it is not overwhelming them
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right at the beginning of that journey. It's it's it's
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layering up, isn't it. It's what do they need to
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know right in the outset and then and then building
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up the level of understanding, the level of knowledge. Then yeah,
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their portfolio.
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I guess we found we found there was a gap
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with particularly younger clients signing their first pro deal. So
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up to recently, our typical new client was for football.
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It was probably eighteen nineteen twenty, but earning kind of
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ten to fifteen thousand pounds a week. You know, we're boutique.
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We don't want a high volume of clients. But I
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also felt there was an orders of responsibility to help
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the next tier below that almost so maybe they've signed
293
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the first probe it's three four five grand a week.
294
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So we've been able to develop an offering, like a
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lower monthly subscription tier that focuses not on investments and
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products because they don't need that at that age. They
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need the education, the habits, the grounding. So that's been
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something that we worked quite hard on in recent months
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to start rolling out as well.
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Yeah, really, and it gives them the skills and confidence.
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Actually when they do then start earning that that sort
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of greater amount of money, that those habits are almost
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embedded exactly. It's giving them the skills.
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That's why we want to do it now. And again,
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you know, we we want to make sure that they
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have those foundations. So like we said, when the money
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turns up, then actually the habits and the automatic habits
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are there. Now that being said, we will We've also
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taken on some twenty seven twenty eight year old clients
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who are you know, household names in the game, but
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for whatever reason, they've had a bad service from their
312
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existing financial advisor and we've come in and done an
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orders and then taken on that client. So no, there
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is wide spectrum, but from an education piece, it's typically
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that younger client.
316
00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:10.480
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I know, sort of coming back
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to the FCA's consumer duty, I know that's obviously sort
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of weaved throughout all of your practice that you do.
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They obviously talk about foreseeable harmon. I know that you
320
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mentioned earlier that actually often a football's a footballer's career
321
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can be sort of quite short lived. So I guess
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it is a fact of we need to plan for
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the future. And you have mentioned that how do you
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find those conversations go with the with the young people
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that actually you know they're just starting with their career
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and actually you're having to have conversations but actually, you know,
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when that career finishes, what does life look like for you?
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And what money do we need to put aside for that.
329
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Yeah, there's a very good answer to that. That's cash
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flow planning. You know, we'll do reports for our clients
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and you know, we try and reduce them as much
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as possible, but you know, there's obviously certain things we
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have to put in there, and we talked true with
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them and yeah, they get it or ish. But then
335
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by the end of it and you do the cash
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flow plan and you show them, look, if you just
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keep saving what you're saving now, and we assume you
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don't get any more income and you don't increase your
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investments and you still maintain your lifestyle. Now, this is
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typically this is what we think you'll get to by
341
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the time you retire. And also we retire them a
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bit early, so we might retire them at thirty two
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or thirty three for illustration purposes, and we show them
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what the tap that could be potentially turned on at
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that point in time and how long that would last.
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So it's almost like different scenarios. You keep going. If
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you maybe don't have the habits in place yet and
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you need a bit of a wake up call, that
349
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will do it. And they'll say, well, how do I
350
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make sure the red in retirement reduces Well, you change now,
351
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and I think that's quite powerful for the young clients
352
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and also the parents of the clients. You know, we've
353
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had some cashlow plans where we say just keep doing
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what you're doing and if not has changes or even
355
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if we reduce it, because it's likely that you know
356
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your income will go down as you get older, you're
357
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still going to be set up for life. And that's
358
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reassurance for parents and the players as well. But yeah,
359
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we want to be the person that come to for
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all these major decisions, but we need to earn that
361
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trust from the start. Yeah.
362
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Absolutely, And I know then that you are building that
363
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trust again from our conversations that we've had, do we
364
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know that you offer that level of support. I mentioned
365
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earlier that holistic support. So I know that you have
366
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had conversations with your clients around mental health and other
367
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things that are going on in their lives. So you know,
368
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what does that look like again in practice?
369
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Yeah, I think one of the things we're very good
370
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at is our systems, like technology. With the client's permission,
371
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we can monitor spending. We can pull the bank data
372
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and we will see things, you know, in our ounds,
373
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potentially gambling, if gambling starts to appear, if certain other
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things start to appear on their bank statements, and then
375
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we can have that chat with them in a not
376
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in a judgmental way. Again, we can put ourselves in
377
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those shoes. We're not surprised because you know what, he's
378
00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:13.559
got a nine month injury. We've been close to them
379
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over that they might have gone quite recently. We start
380
00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:18.440
to put two and two together and we know we
381
00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:20.279
need to maybe we need to pop up and have
382
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:22.680
a visit with them, have a coffee and just find
383
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out how they're going. And they tend to open up
384
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to us, maybe more than a partner or a parent,
385
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:33.119
because we're almost, you know, one step removed from the
386
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:36.359
emotional side of it. With friends and family, it can
387
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:39.559
be more difficult, but they also know that we'll see
388
00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:41.920
these things. So if there's anyone to kind of be
389
00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:45.119
honest and put their hands up with, it's us, and
390
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:46.799
we will help them in that, as I said, that
391
00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:50.720
empathetic way. And yeah, there has been several examples of
392
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:55.119
just clients that needed extra support. We've spotted things, We've
393
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.559
put them in touch with potentially psychologists or what not
394
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.200
to help them deal with that. It's all well and
395
00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:04.400
good having your coach on the pitch and your financial
396
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:06.960
coach and all the rest of it, but actually mental
397
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.480
health given the vulnerability and the pressure and the environment
398
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.240
they're in. And I guess you think they've got to
399
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:16.640
this level because they're wired a certain way, right, They're
400
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:19.759
wired to get to the top. They're thirty forty thousand
401
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:22.200
fans on a Saturday. They're getting that endor from hit.
402
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.440
It's unbelievable. But what happens on the other side, when
403
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.359
you have a long term injury or you're approaching retirement
404
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.240
and you're feeling a bit lost. It's been able to
405
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:33.400
help them that way as well.
406
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:36.599
Yeah, absolutely, And I know that we have talked about
407
00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:39.880
social media in the past as well, because even just
408
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:43.440
thinking about those expectations and you're talking about the fan
409
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:48.400
base there. You know, fans do put a huge amount
410
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:52.559
of pressure onto to play as you know, they sort
411
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:55.960
of almost idolize them, and so that adds that extra level.
412
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.960
So it's only you know, if they miss a goal
413
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:00.480
or they don't perform as well in a match, you know,
414
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:03.200
what are you saying in that? In that area, then
415
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:05.200
with with team members.
416
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:08.079
Yeah, it's difficult. Like the first when you're young, I
417
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.440
guess you want to do well. You put your name
418
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:13.440
into X, you do badly. You might want to see
419
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.839
how badly you're getting slated. You shouldn't. But I think
420
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.559
with the years going on, that hopefully bit of maturity
421
00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:25.319
where they realize how fickle fans are and clubs are. Also, Like,
422
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:27.920
if a club doesn't want you, you're you're really I
423
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:29.640
think in my view, you're in either an asset or
424
00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:31.799
a liability. And if at a point in time you
425
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:34.559
become a liability to a football club. We've seen the
426
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:36.519
way they've treated some of our clients to get them
427
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.880
out the door, and if that was in any organization, mine, yours,
428
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:42.079
et cetera, you would be up in an employment tribunal
429
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:44.440
in the morning because they're footballers and they have loads
430
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.119
of money. It's okay, it's not. And that's that's been
431
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.440
quite a learning experience. So that's why I don't support.
432
00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:54.799
I don't support any club. I wear whatever color tie.
433
00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:58.119
I'll go wherever I need to go to follow our clients.
434
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:03.920
So yeah, one, yeah, So I mean just even just
435
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:08.039
sort of thinking about all those situations that can potentially
436
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:12.039
cause vulnerability means it's almost amplified, isn't it, because of
437
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.000
the position that they find themselves in the role that
438
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:16.119
they're in, the job that they do.
439
00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:21.400
It's yeah, Like, give me any other any other industry,
440
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.200
you'd have a fifty five year old man shouting abuse
441
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:27.480
at a twenty year old child essentially and feeling like
442
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:31.279
that's okay, And look, that's part and parcels. Fans pay
443
00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:34.559
their fees and wages get paid to the players, and
444
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:37.799
that's the merry go around. But it does add a huge,
445
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:42.319
a huge layer of complexity and vulnerability. As said, let
446
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:44.119
alone all the issues you have to go through to
447
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:46.920
get the contract. Then you get the contract and you're
448
00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:49.519
playing in the first team. That then adds a whole
449
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.920
other level. So I think we kind of help as
450
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:55.920
we see it, and we're not qualified psychologists and initiate
451
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.559
or form like we do the finances, but I'm also
452
00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:01.559
a human being and having seen a lot of different
453
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:03.960
sides of it, I think we're able to help. But
454
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:07.599
also where where we feel like they need that professional support,
455
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:11.640
we link in with people like the PFA to help
456
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.119
get that support for the players in a discrete way,
457
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.359
because definitely it's it's tough, and that window is short,
458
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:20.240
and that window, you know, some players think it's going
459
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.480
to go on forever and they live like that, So
460
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:25.680
we try and just put a bit of a reality
461
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:29.240
check on that for them again, which sometimes they don't
462
00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:31.440
want to hear, but that's our job. We're not there
463
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:33.720
to be the yes person. They have enough of those
464
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:38.839
around them in terms of fans and whatnot. So yeah,
465
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:41.920
it's it's interesting, But not once have I mentioned about
466
00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:45.440
investment proposition and what you know, that is almost just
467
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:48.640
that's the easy bit. The hard bit is is getting
468
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:51.480
it in, getting them set up and getting them to
469
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:54.000
stay on the track, which which is what we why
470
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.480
we have a job. And while I have a business.
471
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:59.400
Yeah, absolutely, so linking it in with consumer duty because
472
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.000
I know that a lot the listeners are from financial
473
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:06.960
services sort of what what changes have you implemented as
474
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:09.599
a as a business since sort of consumer duty has
475
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:12.000
come in or or what does that mean for you
476
00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:14.000
within your business? I know you have those really good
477
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.200
human relationships with your clients.
478
00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:19.920
Yeah, I think we kind of revamped how we write
479
00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:26.559
our reports, first of all, making it more digestible, you know, diagrams,
480
00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:29.319
flow charts, et cetera, just not not to be so
481
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:32.720
text heavy. We've done We've created like more like a
482
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:36.119
one pager snapshot, so a nice little one pager, which
483
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.440
would you've been privy to just summering the assets and
484
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:43.680
liabilities or what they have and what they owe and
485
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:46.680
income and expenditure. So a nice little snapshot, one one
486
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:50.440
pager that kind of provides the overview of where they're at,
487
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:53.039
and then like a traffic light system to show where
488
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:56.000
they're on track and maybe where they're off track and
489
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.079
how we plan to get that amber or red to
490
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.880
a green light. So making very very digestible, how we'd
491
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.359
send our reports out, making sure we present to them
492
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:10.599
doing a loom video so they can all revert back
493
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.960
to the report. And I think a large part of
494
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:17.559
what we do is helping clients avoid that foreseeable harm
495
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:21.319
with reviewing these you know, unbelievable pitches that they've been given,
496
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:24.440
which maybe you know, with our pair of eyes we
497
00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:28.039
can highlight the risks and protect them from going into
498
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:30.799
stuff that And it's well documented, right You've seen the
499
00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:34.119
and heard about the documentaries recently and about advisors in
500
00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:38.240
maybe the nineties and early noughties, which I think gave
501
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.640
financial planners in football a bit of a bad reputation.
502
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:47.119
But hangfully, you know, in the last decades, particularly while
503
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.480
whilst havn't been involved, we know a number of really
504
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:53.480
really good financial planners in this space that are doing
505
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.680
some really good things. So yeah, I think it just
506
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.920
caused we're a fresh firm anyway, So a lot of
507
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.200
is structuring and how we're communicating with our clients was
508
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.200
in place, but consumer duty just allowed us to put
509
00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:10.480
another lens on that and rEFInd that. So yeah, that's
510
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:11.960
what we've done, and.
511
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.599
So lots of tips and that the listeners can take
512
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.039
away with today. And I think the biggest thing is
513
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:20.440
and definitely something that the FCA focused on recently, is
514
00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:24.599
that the consumer understanding elements, So just the thoughts that
515
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:26.759
you've put in place to help them to be able
516
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:28.319
to understand that information is key.
517
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.519
One thing I think you know with the inn review reports,
518
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:34.640
clients have short memories. So what we have included is
519
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.119
a one pager of how we've helped you in the
520
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.119
last twelve months, because so much of it is not
521
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:45.039
down to investment return or whatnot, it's everything else. So
522
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:47.880
we get involved on the mortgages, helping them with the
523
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:52.559
house purchases, the solicitor paperwork, current, you know, lots of
524
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:56.000
stuff that goes on. So reminding clients at least every
525
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:58.559
twelve months on paper when you're going through the ann
526
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.920
review I find has been good. Has been a good
527
00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:04.799
understanding for the clients as well, and a reminder to
528
00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:07.480
them what we do and that you know tends to
529
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:09.880
lead to more referrals. If I do a good job
530
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.559
for you and you've got twelve people in your dress
531
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:14.319
room that are exactly in the type of client that
532
00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:17.640
I want to deal with, then then that's great. Similarly,
533
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:20.920
if I stretch myself and I'm overtrading and i'm my
534
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:24.279
service levels drop and you can't get hold of me, well,
535
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:26.960
then you're likely to tell your twelve friends right alongside
536
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.640
you quite quickly. So that's kind of a healthy paranoia
537
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.599
that I keep on my shoulder to make sure we
538
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.000
never get to that point because in previous roles, when
539
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:38.640
you're in a bank and you're dealing with the masses,
540
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:41.920
there is expectation on volume. And that's why I don't
541
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.319
want volume. I want valuable clients and we can add
542
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:46.359
value to them.
543
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:50.119
Yeah, absolutely, And I think you're what you're creating for
544
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.599
them is you're you're taking away some of that overwhelm
545
00:28:54.680 --> 00:28:58.759
and that uncertainty or sort of anxiety around of actually
546
00:28:58.759 --> 00:29:00.880
how do I deal with all this money? Giving them
547
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:02.559
that piece of mind so actually they can then just
548
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.720
focus on playing football and because that's ultimately what they
549
00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:07.240
care about.
550
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:10.799
Hopefully, Yeah, that's what we try and do, and to
551
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:13.960
take that almost pressure away from them or feel like
552
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:17.319
they have someone sitting alongside them, not someone that just
553
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.279
wants to invest all their money because that's how they
554
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.839
make money in et cetera, et cetera. We're genuinely working
555
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:25.200
directly for our clients. Our clients pay us directly. We
556
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.920
don't get paid anywhere else, and then that gives a
557
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.319
piece of mind. And you know, when I launched sonar.
558
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:33.960
I launched a monthly subscription, so footballers will pay us
559
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:36.160
a monthly fee. So as I said, whether we want
560
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:39.720
to recommend investing, or whether we say help you with
561
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:42.319
your properties or anything that pops up along the way,
562
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:45.599
it gives us almost that independence and autonomy for the clients,
563
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.759
which I think goes down really well. I hope, so
564
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:50.640
so far, so good.
565
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:53.519
Yeah, No, and yeah, I mean just even from the
566
00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:55.720
things that you've shared, I know that you are making
567
00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:58.119
a difference to those to those young people who were
568
00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:01.480
just starting out in their career. So with that in mind,
569
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:04.440
then is there a moment or an outcome that has
570
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:08.359
really stayed with you personally since since supporting your clients.
571
00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:12.519
I think there's Yeah. I think there's probably two that
572
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:16.079
jump out straight away, one being very recent, as in
573
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:19.440
two weeks ago, we had a client who was not
574
00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:23.039
not a footballer but a boxer and we've had him
575
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.319
from a majority of his career and he was almost
576
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:29.279
on a comeback trail and you know, it was very
577
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:32.279
difficult because he was looking to be world champion, should
578
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:35.079
have won the fight, didn't, and then there was clowing
579
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:37.559
his way back from there. So we supported him a
580
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:39.880
lot on the kind of second stage of that journey,
581
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:43.920
and I think being at his most recent fight, which
582
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.079
unfortunately he lost and it ended up being his retirement fight,
583
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:52.079
so after he lost, he retired that night. But being
584
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:55.920
there with him and his partner and his kids and
585
00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:58.559
his close team in the dressing room afterwards, when you
586
00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:00.839
know he'd gone through the ringer, he was at peaks,
587
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.559
then that's he's calling time on it. I think being
588
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:07.200
there in those moments, it's not just about the debuts
589
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:10.799
or or signing the new contract. It's it's that moment,
590
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.599
which I was very proud to have been there, and
591
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:16.319
I know he appreciated me being there as well, because
592
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:18.880
you're you're in it for the right reasons and you
593
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.160
know he'll need my support now more than ever. But
594
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.799
he's he'll be fine because he's got a good plan
595
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.799
in place. I think another one that stood out was
596
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:29.079
a young player that came to us years and years
597
00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:34.119
ago who was struggling, was struggling spending. He was not
598
00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:37.160
struggling spending as well able to spend he was. He
599
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.839
was struggling saving and without a plan, and you know,
600
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:44.359
spending in ways that wouldn't be conducive to a healthy lifestyle,
601
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:46.920
let's put it that way. And we got involved and
602
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:50.000
we kind of you know, helped him fairly firmly from
603
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.480
the start and and watched his career go and he
604
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:56.480
got back into his club team. Fast forward four more
605
00:31:56.599 --> 00:31:59.559
years and you know, he got into the international setup
606
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.680
and then you know, being at the match where he
607
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:07.039
did make his debut for his international first country, sitting
608
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:10.559
alongside his parents who were obviously in tears and husually proud.
609
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:13.440
But again that that type of stuff, you know, that
610
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:16.319
beats any assets under management or whatnot in a firm.
611
00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:19.279
You know, it's a it was really powerful. So yeah,
612
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.839
those kind of things stand to you the human aspect
613
00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:22.319
of the job.
614
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:24.960
And it just goes to show as well that the
615
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:28.680
relationship that you build with them, that you are actually
616
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:33.240
with them in those you know, really key moments in
617
00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:35.799
their life that they've actually invited you to join them
618
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:39.279
on those oh those sense I mean that in itself
619
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.440
is testament that yeah, it's.
620
00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:44.839
A p we definitely don't take that for granted, and
621
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:48.920
yeah it's a privilege to be in that position, which
622
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:51.200
yeah we don't. We definitely we don't take for granted.
623
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:54.680
So yeah, obviously the good times and the bad. I
624
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:57.559
think we're needed more in the in the quieter moments
625
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:00.720
when it's a bit tougher. Uh, and that were there
626
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:01.480
for that too.
627
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:05.720
Yeah, brilliant. Oh thank you so much. Patrick. Are there
628
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:07.839
any final thoughts that you want to share just as
629
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:09.759
we bring the episode to a close.
630
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:13.400
I think, if anything, it's just you know, highlighting when
631
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:16.319
you look at footballers on a screen. You know, talent
632
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:21.799
and income don't automatically translate into long term security. There's
633
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:23.880
a lot of risks there that are associd with those
634
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:28.000
type of clients that maybe if if there's financial vosors
635
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:31.039
listening that don't deal with that type of client. It's
636
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:33.680
it's those things that go on behind the scenes. It's
637
00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:37.079
it's it's quite tough. So our job is to make
638
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:40.839
sure that those opportunities these players have today turned into
639
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.359
something that goes well beyond their careers. And it's a
640
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:47.240
it's a fun journey along the way, the highs and lows,
641
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:49.960
but yeah, it's it's it's very rewarding.
642
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:53.880
I love that. Thank you so much, Patrick, and thank
643
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:56.200
you so much for being a guest today. I knew
644
00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:59.079
sort of, you know, when I relaunched the podcast. Actually,
645
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.720
i'd love you to share your thoughts because, like we've said,
646
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:06.039
it's flicked vulnerability on its head and sort of just
647
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:09.360
looked at different scenarios that they can in fact cause
648
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:12.519
cause vulnerable circumstances. So thank you, Jeremy.
649
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:14.880
Yeah, and thank you Helen, and thank you for the
650
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:18.880
support your firm gives, My firm has given and continues
651
00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:21.480
to give, and lung may continue.
652
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:25.440
You're very welcome. Thank you so much, Patrick, Thank you
653
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:28.239
for joining us for this episode of unlock in Vulnerability.
654
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:32.639
If today's conversation has resonated with you, please feel free
655
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:34.760
to share it with others who may find it useful.
656
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.239
You'll find more episodes like this by searching unlock in
657
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:42.800
Vulnerability wherever you listen to podcasts. If this episode has
658
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:46.440
left you with questions about any aspect of consumer vulnerability,
659
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:49.840
I regularly host free Q and A sessions on Zoom,
660
00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:53.159
where you're welcome to join the conversation. You can find
661
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:57.000
out more at Helenpetterfer dot com. Thank you for listening,
662
00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:58.360
and please take care