Developing Free Thinkers

WEBVTT
00:00:01.730 --> 00:00:04.549
Welcome to The Educational Dilemma. I'm your
00:00:04.549 --> 00:00:06.530
host, Emma Goldsmith, head of the Dragon School
00:00:06.530 --> 00:00:10.410
in Oxford. Thank you for listening. Welcome to
00:00:10.410 --> 00:00:14.830
season two of The Educational Dilemma and episode
00:00:14.830 --> 00:00:17.829
one is a real treat for me because I'm sitting
00:00:17.829 --> 00:00:20.190
down with two of my colleagues talking about
00:00:20.190 --> 00:00:22.850
the aim of our school which is all about developing
00:00:22.850 --> 00:00:25.769
free thinkers and hopefully when you listen to
00:00:25.769 --> 00:00:28.829
our conversation which does go on a bit you'll
00:00:28.829 --> 00:00:31.129
have some really helpful hints about how you
00:00:31.129 --> 00:00:32.890
can encourage your own children to become curious
00:00:32.890 --> 00:00:36.820
and free thinkers. So I have to say, I think
00:00:36.820 --> 00:00:38.840
this is going to be my most favourite podcast
00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:43.140
because I have with me two of my deputies. I've
00:00:43.140 --> 00:00:45.719
got Will Dixon, who is Deputy Head Academic.
00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:48.979
Morning, Will. Good morning. And also Kath, who
00:00:48.979 --> 00:00:51.679
is Deputy Head Pastoral and Safeguarding. Good
00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:53.340
morning. So we're sitting here with our cups
00:00:53.340 --> 00:00:56.460
of coffee on a beautiful autumnal morning, it
00:00:56.460 --> 00:00:57.939
has to be said, at the beginning of the academic
00:00:57.939 --> 00:01:00.619
year. And probably quite a nice time to be having
00:01:00.619 --> 00:01:02.320
this conversation because what we're going to
00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:05.859
be talking about today is... Basically, the aim
00:01:05.859 --> 00:01:09.640
of our school, which is to develop free thinking,
00:01:09.819 --> 00:01:13.260
free thinking young people. And I think collectively
00:01:13.260 --> 00:01:16.739
at the Dragon, we really believe in this concept
00:01:16.739 --> 00:01:19.620
of free thinking. But it's not just about the
00:01:19.620 --> 00:01:21.819
Dragon School. It is about every parent probably
00:01:21.819 --> 00:01:24.599
hoping that they're going to develop free thinking
00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:26.859
young people. But actually, what does that mean?
00:01:27.540 --> 00:01:29.400
So that's probably quite a good place to start.
00:01:29.540 --> 00:01:31.879
I mean, I don't know. You can fight for who's
00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:33.560
going to say first what they think it means.
00:01:33.870 --> 00:01:36.549
what do we think that phrase free thinking actually
00:01:36.549 --> 00:01:40.150
means for me i think free thinking is all about
00:01:40.150 --> 00:01:44.069
um developing critical thinking skills um i think
00:01:44.069 --> 00:01:47.930
free thinking is a sort of form of of creativity
00:01:47.930 --> 00:01:53.650
in a way it's a way of creating um curious um
00:01:53.650 --> 00:01:57.870
minds where children are encouraged to sort of
00:01:57.870 --> 00:02:00.689
question what they see and not necessarily accept
00:02:00.689 --> 00:02:04.769
everything as the status quo and i think free
00:02:04.769 --> 00:02:07.670
thinking does sort of provide some of the foundations
00:02:07.670 --> 00:02:12.430
for um creativity um in later life um so you
00:02:12.430 --> 00:02:14.909
know in today's day and age i think free thinking
00:02:14.909 --> 00:02:17.229
is such an important skill with everything that's
00:02:17.229 --> 00:02:20.270
sort of going on around the world um so it's
00:02:20.270 --> 00:02:22.189
about it's about developing those voices essentially
00:02:22.189 --> 00:02:27.310
and and respecting other people's um and recognising
00:02:27.310 --> 00:02:29.939
differences. So Kath, he got in there first,
00:02:29.939 --> 00:02:31.919
didn't he? That was so unfair, just jumping in
00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:33.439
there with all of that wonderful stuff. I mean,
00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:35.860
from a pastoral perspective, what's important?
00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.000
Or what do you understand by free thinking in
00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.280
our context? Yeah, I think it's about each child
00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:42.919
feeling that sense of agency, feeling that actually
00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:45.319
they can build their own opinions of the world
00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:48.460
around them and just not being afraid to be wrong
00:02:48.460 --> 00:02:50.699
as well. And I think it's listening to that inner
00:02:50.699 --> 00:02:52.879
voice and having that sort of gut feeling about
00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:56.419
something and not being afraid to speak up. while
00:02:56.419 --> 00:02:58.659
still having respect for other people's opinions.
00:02:59.979 --> 00:03:02.419
So I think it's something, particularly the dragon,
00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:04.719
it's really evolving in actually helping children
00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:08.099
feel confident in themselves and making sure
00:03:08.099 --> 00:03:10.620
that they're not simply following the herd. They
00:03:10.620 --> 00:03:13.259
can actually build their own views on the world
00:03:13.259 --> 00:03:16.120
while still thinking about that emotional intelligence.
00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:19.960
and working with people. Yeah. It's an interesting
00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.300
one, isn't it? That we've decided to really focus
00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:25.379
on this because do you think in society and maybe
00:03:25.379 --> 00:03:28.159
the educational system that perhaps there is
00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:31.080
some discouragement from being a free thinker?
00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:33.699
I mean, do you remember as children not being
00:03:33.699 --> 00:03:36.319
encouraged to have an opinion or a voice? Yeah,
00:03:36.340 --> 00:03:38.860
I think education's hugely changed over the years.
00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:40.520
And I think when I think back to being at school
00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:43.840
myself, I think it was very different environments
00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.460
where children... had to really follow instructions.
00:03:47.060 --> 00:03:49.879
Whereas now I do think we want children to question
00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:54.099
alongside respecting obviously others. But I
00:03:54.099 --> 00:03:56.360
think with the online world, I think that's something
00:03:56.360 --> 00:03:59.300
that's, it's just trying to encourage children
00:03:59.300 --> 00:04:01.699
to not believe everything they read and see.
00:04:03.150 --> 00:04:05.150
So actually they're thinking for themselves because
00:04:05.150 --> 00:04:07.729
I think the amount of information that's coming
00:04:07.729 --> 00:04:10.229
their way can be overwhelming. I think even as
00:04:10.229 --> 00:04:13.150
adults, we find it overwhelming. So it's building
00:04:13.150 --> 00:04:15.860
that confidence to recognize. you know, what
00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:18.220
do I believe in personally? So it's a context
00:04:18.220 --> 00:04:20.160
that's changed in order that we have to make
00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.399
sure that they can question. Because I was thinking,
00:04:22.420 --> 00:04:24.740
you know, did we, you know, our parents or even
00:04:24.740 --> 00:04:26.500
at school, I remember having the Encyclopedia
00:04:26.500 --> 00:04:28.899
Britannica, no one ever questioned what was in
00:04:28.899 --> 00:04:30.639
there. There was just an understanding that it
00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:32.540
was a published book, therefore it must be true.
00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:35.240
So do you think it's context that's made us think,
00:04:35.339 --> 00:04:36.959
actually, we've got to develop this in these
00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:39.379
children? Yeah, I think so. And I think, you
00:04:39.379 --> 00:04:42.110
know, there is... some rigidity with our with
00:04:42.110 --> 00:04:45.230
our sort of education system still and i think
00:04:45.230 --> 00:04:48.449
it's it's important that you know families and
00:04:48.449 --> 00:04:50.709
schools and our education sector really thinks
00:04:50.709 --> 00:04:53.529
about creating a curriculum which is innovative
00:04:53.529 --> 00:04:57.649
and relative to the real world in our times um
00:04:57.649 --> 00:05:00.949
and giving children you know the ownership to
00:05:00.949 --> 00:05:03.269
make decisions within their learning i think
00:05:03.269 --> 00:05:05.930
you know of course knowledge is hugely important
00:05:05.930 --> 00:05:09.990
um but In later life, the skills that children
00:05:09.990 --> 00:05:14.709
need to thrive in a world of work are really,
00:05:14.790 --> 00:05:17.610
really key as well. So I think it's recognizing
00:05:17.610 --> 00:05:21.189
that. And of course, now in the world that we
00:05:21.189 --> 00:05:25.769
live in, anyone can create content. And it's
00:05:25.769 --> 00:05:27.910
really important that we encourage children to
00:05:27.910 --> 00:05:30.550
question the validity of that content. You talk
00:05:30.550 --> 00:05:36.879
about the encyclopedia, a source. There's widely
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:38.680
known, you know, Wikipedia, you know, anyone
00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:42.000
can delve into that content and create that content.
00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:44.180
So it's just making sure that children are aware
00:05:44.180 --> 00:05:48.000
that not everything that they hear is necessarily
00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:51.100
valid or true. Yeah. It's interesting because
00:05:51.100 --> 00:05:55.839
in a classroom context, it is a really safe environment
00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:58.579
to question things. And I think we as teachers
00:05:58.579 --> 00:06:00.759
are getting better at kind of coaching that rather
00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:04.470
than. The idea of teaching, we're kind of encouraging
00:06:04.470 --> 00:06:06.790
children to have those skills. But if you're
00:06:06.790 --> 00:06:10.389
a parent at home, what is it that parents can
00:06:10.389 --> 00:06:15.350
do to kind of encourage that curiosity and so
00:06:15.350 --> 00:06:17.949
on? Catherine, what can parents do, even right
00:06:17.949 --> 00:06:19.930
from the start? I mean, you've got a young child.
00:06:20.089 --> 00:06:22.329
I mean, how do you stimulate that idea of curiosity?
00:06:22.629 --> 00:06:23.970
I think, yeah, as you say, I think I'm right
00:06:23.970 --> 00:06:25.689
at the start of parenting, so I'm definitely
00:06:25.689 --> 00:06:28.370
learning. But through having a 22 -month -old,
00:06:28.550 --> 00:06:31.250
I'm trying not to jump in. And I think it'd be
00:06:31.250 --> 00:06:34.350
very easy as my son's climbing up the slide and
00:06:34.350 --> 00:06:36.350
other parents in the playground saying they're
00:06:36.350 --> 00:06:38.490
meant to slide down. It's actually me going,
00:06:38.529 --> 00:06:40.129
it's okay. He's actually becoming a really good
00:06:40.129 --> 00:06:42.930
climber and not jumping in because I'm scared
00:06:42.930 --> 00:06:45.050
he's going to fall. And I think it's very difficult
00:06:45.050 --> 00:06:46.589
because I think the parents, they want to keep
00:06:46.589 --> 00:06:48.430
their children safe and they want them to be
00:06:48.430 --> 00:06:51.250
happy. So it can be very difficult when they're
00:06:51.250 --> 00:06:55.129
feeling these big emotions to enable them to
00:06:55.129 --> 00:06:58.480
make mistakes. But I think. Just giving them
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:00.240
a voice around that dinner table and saying,
00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:02.740
you know, how are things and not jumping in to
00:07:02.740 --> 00:07:05.139
correct them, I think is a big one. Because,
00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:07.180
you know, it's inevitable, isn't it? When we
00:07:07.180 --> 00:07:11.839
think back about parenting models, you know,
00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:14.259
it was children were seen and not heard. I mean,
00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:16.319
genuinely. And that's not that too many generations
00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.939
ago. And I think sometimes as a parent, you're
00:07:18.939 --> 00:07:22.360
worried if a child questions whether you're right
00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:25.970
or whether you're... you're correct in your thinking,
00:07:26.029 --> 00:07:27.750
but it's having the confidence as a parent to
00:07:27.750 --> 00:07:29.269
accept that they're going to challenge and ask
00:07:29.269 --> 00:07:31.310
why. I mean, I remember, you know, there is a
00:07:31.310 --> 00:07:33.089
certain age group, isn't it, where every question
00:07:33.089 --> 00:07:36.209
is why, why, and it's not shutting it down. I'm
00:07:36.209 --> 00:07:37.870
not quite there yet. I'm not quite there yet,
00:07:37.870 --> 00:07:40.490
exactly. But it takes quite a lot of confidence
00:07:40.490 --> 00:07:44.050
to appreciate that. Yeah, and I think at home,
00:07:44.089 --> 00:07:47.050
I think it's perfectly acceptable not to know
00:07:47.050 --> 00:07:49.810
the answers to everything. And I think that kind
00:07:49.810 --> 00:07:53.540
of shared discovery is a really... exciting thing
00:07:53.540 --> 00:07:57.639
as a family to sort of look at together. We often
00:07:57.639 --> 00:07:59.759
talk at school about the sort of struggle zone
00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.100
and the sort of learning pit. So if a child can't
00:08:02.100 --> 00:08:04.379
complete something or can't do something straight
00:08:04.379 --> 00:08:08.040
away, sort of let them allow them to develop
00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:11.660
that. resilience to be creative and think outside
00:08:11.660 --> 00:08:14.959
the box and it's kind of training not necessarily
00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:18.220
feeding them knowledge um it's about sort of
00:08:18.220 --> 00:08:21.040
training them how to think creatively and i think
00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:23.000
that's that's a really important part and i think
00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:27.100
you know um we talk about you know this idea
00:08:27.100 --> 00:08:29.660
of instant gratification in terms of you've got
00:08:29.660 --> 00:08:32.940
content at your fingertips at any time i think
00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:35.740
it's really key that we allow children to have
00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:41.220
that chance to be bored and to be free and to
00:08:41.220 --> 00:08:46.440
have a moment when they're not necessarily constantly
00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:49.940
stimulated because that can spark creativity.
00:08:51.580 --> 00:08:53.480
So I think that's key as well. It's really interesting.
00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:56.340
I keep saying that word interesting. I must change
00:08:56.340 --> 00:08:57.980
it because that's very boring for everyone. However,
00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:00.240
I remember having a conversation with one of
00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:02.899
my children. They said, I'm bored. And it was
00:09:02.899 --> 00:09:04.220
interesting. So I thought, where have they got
00:09:04.220 --> 00:09:07.080
that word from? And so I said, what's your understanding
00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:12.899
of bored? And he said, when I don't know what
00:09:12.899 --> 00:09:15.399
to do next. And I said, well, isn't that really
00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:17.320
exciting that you don't know what to do yet?
00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:20.299
And there's all these choices you can make. And
00:09:20.299 --> 00:09:21.919
it was a really interesting unpicking. And I
00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:24.700
never heard that word again because it was actually
00:09:24.700 --> 00:09:26.779
I've got choices. I can go and do something creative.
00:09:26.779 --> 00:09:29.259
I can go and play sport or whatever. And it's
00:09:29.259 --> 00:09:31.980
unpicking those conversations with your children
00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:34.259
to realize that that can be a really creative
00:09:34.259 --> 00:09:37.059
time when actually you've got nothing to do.
00:09:37.139 --> 00:09:40.399
You've got absolute free reign. And I do think
00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:43.940
that. My perception is that some parents fill
00:09:43.940 --> 00:09:48.039
their child's timetable with stuff, whether it's
00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:50.259
a club or we've got to go see friends or whatever.
00:09:50.419 --> 00:09:54.480
But children do need that space to lead their
00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:56.460
own decision making and what they're going to
00:09:56.460 --> 00:09:58.600
do next. But also that's when the creative juices
00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.500
start going. Yeah, and I think I remember as
00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:03.519
a child, my mum was a teacher, but she used to
00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:06.039
say to my brother and I, boring people are bored.
00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:08.460
And it stuck with me because actually then we
00:10:08.460 --> 00:10:11.159
had to fill that time. And I couldn't agree more
00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:13.740
that I think we're in the modern world now that
00:10:13.740 --> 00:10:15.820
is more complicated because children have more
00:10:15.820 --> 00:10:18.860
decisions. There's more options. But I do think
00:10:18.860 --> 00:10:21.580
potentially in the next few years, it's considering
00:10:21.580 --> 00:10:24.700
actually how can enabling more space for children
00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:27.759
provide them a chance to actually think clearly.
00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:29.820
Because I think when we think about the digital
00:10:29.820 --> 00:10:32.340
world of children, if they have a phone scrolling,
00:10:32.740 --> 00:10:36.379
they haven't got that space to think. And actually,
00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:38.740
if a child's on a phone for an hour, they probably
00:10:38.740 --> 00:10:39.860
couldn't tell you what they've actually done
00:10:39.860 --> 00:10:42.440
on that phone for an hour. Whereas we know that
00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:45.480
if you give a child some space for an hour to
00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:48.419
bake or read a book, they're probably going to
00:10:48.419 --> 00:10:51.019
feel much better for it. I think the other thing
00:10:51.019 --> 00:10:54.620
is, you know, as parents and, you know, as teachers
00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:57.559
and educators, it's kind of modelling this kind
00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:01.480
of curiosity, this natural curiosity, you know.
00:11:01.850 --> 00:11:03.690
developing learning through questioning is really
00:11:03.690 --> 00:11:06.830
key. If a child asks a question, you know, as
00:11:06.830 --> 00:11:09.649
teachers, we're trained not necessarily to give
00:11:09.649 --> 00:11:12.350
knowledge all the time, but it's to encourage
00:11:12.350 --> 00:11:15.129
thinking. So if a child asks a question, ask
00:11:15.129 --> 00:11:16.809
them the question back and actually model that
00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:20.139
and be curious with them. And the other thing
00:11:20.139 --> 00:11:23.000
as well is engaging in sort of shared experiences
00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:27.840
together. So as you said, Kath, you know, reading
00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.740
books together, going to museums together, going
00:11:30.740 --> 00:11:32.840
to parks together, doing a puzzle together and
00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:35.120
actually having those shared experiences where
00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:38.460
you're prompting the children to think creatively
00:11:38.460 --> 00:11:40.860
and to, as I said before, develop that kind of
00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:43.860
resilience to feel a little bit of a struggle
00:11:43.860 --> 00:11:46.399
and feel a little bit uncomfortable. And I think
00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:51.080
that's really key. our own childhood and maybe,
00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.720
you know, how we were encouraged to be curious.
00:11:53.779 --> 00:11:56.500
Because, you know, even though you're all much
00:11:56.500 --> 00:11:59.399
younger than I am, there wasn't the kind of social
00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:01.519
media aspect. There were different stimuli that
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:03.899
we had. But one thing we used to do as a family
00:12:03.899 --> 00:12:07.220
with my own children is the what ifs. You know,
00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:09.340
would you prefer... a pair of wings or a tail.
00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:12.440
And we used to have some hilarious conversations
00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:14.419
because you'd start talking about that. But then
00:12:14.419 --> 00:12:16.799
obviously with their imagination and going forward,
00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:19.980
they would come up with other things. And it's
00:12:19.980 --> 00:12:22.759
that just sort of mental agility. And I remember,
00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:25.240
and I think you can still get this book, it's
00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:28.240
the book of thunks. it was called. And it was
00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:31.820
this idea of, you know, real basic philosophy,
00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:33.899
really, you know, when does a tree trunk become
00:12:33.899 --> 00:12:36.580
a table? All of those things that just get the
00:12:36.580 --> 00:12:39.240
conversation going. I mean, from your own childhoods,
00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:41.320
were there any, I mean, I think both of you've
00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:42.700
actually had conversations with your parents
00:12:42.700 --> 00:12:44.240
about being, whether you were curious children.
00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:46.059
I mean, what were, what were they, what was,
00:12:46.059 --> 00:12:47.779
what was their response when you asked them?
00:12:48.350 --> 00:12:50.289
well as I mentioned earlier my mum was a teacher
00:12:50.289 --> 00:12:53.149
my dad was a police officer so um it was actually
00:12:53.149 --> 00:12:55.129
really interesting asking them the question because
00:12:55.129 --> 00:12:57.509
you do forget quite quickly of what you were
00:12:57.509 --> 00:12:59.549
like as a child yes um but they actually did
00:12:59.549 --> 00:13:01.669
say I was a very curious child which for some
00:13:01.669 --> 00:13:04.309
reason I was quite surprised by um but they said
00:13:04.309 --> 00:13:06.120
I was particularly curious around the sort of
00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:08.360
the world around me i wanted to know about different
00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:10.820
countries different cultures and i remember from
00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:13.460
a very young age my dad quizzing me and my brother
00:13:13.460 --> 00:13:16.200
in the car on capital cities and that was just
00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:18.240
something that's ingrained in our holiday trips
00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.600
um but then it obviously really helped our knowledge
00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.340
of understanding the world around us yeah um
00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:25.980
and i think also i had this sort of innate feeling
00:13:25.980 --> 00:13:29.399
of um you know Girls football, I remember in
00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:33.039
year six, amazing teacher allowing us to play
00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:35.100
football and it just back then wasn't a thing.
00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:38.220
And then I questioned quite strongly in secondary
00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:40.700
school why there was no girls football. And you
00:13:40.700 --> 00:13:43.200
do look at where we are now, but it's interesting
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:45.000
to look back at things were obviously very different
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:48.370
back then. But still some of those passions are
00:13:48.370 --> 00:13:51.090
there with me now as an adult. Yeah. The car
00:13:51.090 --> 00:13:52.710
is a really interesting thing, isn't it? Those
00:13:52.710 --> 00:13:54.970
conversations in cars, those games you play in
00:13:54.970 --> 00:13:57.950
cars, that's where so much stimulation can happen
00:13:57.950 --> 00:14:00.309
rather than everyone being kind of on their phone
00:14:00.309 --> 00:14:03.070
or watching a film or whatever. Will, what about
00:14:03.070 --> 00:14:06.909
you as a child? So I obviously had a bit of time
00:14:06.909 --> 00:14:08.950
reflecting on this as well with my parents. And
00:14:08.950 --> 00:14:11.809
my brother was very naturally curious. He's a
00:14:11.809 --> 00:14:14.090
sort of doctor now and was so interested in scientific
00:14:14.090 --> 00:14:18.679
discoveries and exploring. I was a little bit
00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:20.679
more particular about how I liked things and
00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:24.080
maybe slightly had a less sort of naturally curious
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:27.519
brain. But my dad did say, going back to these
00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:30.360
sort of car conversations, he said there was
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:33.460
a really interesting moment when we were on the
00:14:33.460 --> 00:14:35.779
way back from a swimming class and it was a bit
00:14:35.779 --> 00:14:39.559
silent in the car. And you said to me, Daddy,
00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:44.120
yes, yes, yes, Will, if God made the world...
00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:49.139
what was he standing on when he did it? And these
00:14:49.139 --> 00:14:51.779
kind of random questions that maybe come up,
00:14:51.779 --> 00:14:54.840
you know, from a naturally curious child, it's
00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:57.100
really stumped him. So actually, I don't want
00:14:57.100 --> 00:14:59.000
to say something which goes against maybe you've
00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:01.019
been taught at school or, you know, what you
00:15:01.019 --> 00:15:03.870
believe. So it's just. These kind of random curious
00:15:03.870 --> 00:15:06.009
questions from children, I think, be prepared
00:15:06.009 --> 00:15:08.830
to answer anything and everything. And yeah,
00:15:08.850 --> 00:15:10.769
it stumps you really today, doesn't it? It does.
00:15:10.809 --> 00:15:14.830
It stimulates the conversation, doesn't it? Which
00:15:14.830 --> 00:15:20.419
I think is... Again, it's this idea that in society
00:15:20.419 --> 00:15:22.899
at the moment, there is this absolute, you just
00:15:22.899 --> 00:15:26.460
go on your phone. And if you're shy as a child,
00:15:26.539 --> 00:15:28.460
it must just be really easy. Actually, I can
00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:30.659
take myself away from actually having to have
00:15:30.659 --> 00:15:33.159
conversations and I can just look at my phone
00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:36.059
and I can dissolve myself into that world. I
00:15:36.059 --> 00:15:38.200
mean, I was walking up a road recently and I
00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:40.179
looked at the bus stop. Every single person was
00:15:40.179 --> 00:15:43.200
looking at their phone. And I thought for some
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:44.799
children, of course, it's brilliant that they
00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:48.179
can maybe have an online friendship with someone
00:15:48.179 --> 00:15:49.820
because, you know, that will hopefully increase
00:15:49.820 --> 00:15:52.720
their confidence. There is something exposing
00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:55.299
about having conversations and asking questions
00:15:55.299 --> 00:15:58.460
and so on. And I guess in a school context, that's
00:15:58.460 --> 00:16:00.320
what we're wanting to encourage them to be part
00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:02.899
of it. As you say, people voice is so important,
00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:05.259
isn't it? I mean, how do we encourage people
00:16:05.259 --> 00:16:08.340
voice at school? Yeah, I think it's something
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:11.919
we want to continue to evolve because as an adult,
00:16:11.980 --> 00:16:14.139
we might view things a certain way, but actually
00:16:14.139 --> 00:16:16.480
for children, they're living it. So it's something
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:18.740
that's sort of big on our agenda to make sure
00:16:18.740 --> 00:16:21.259
that children can explain, how are you finding
00:16:21.259 --> 00:16:23.639
things? How do you find navigating the online
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:27.919
world compared to the physical world? And I think
00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:29.360
I watched something the other day that actually
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:33.460
said more... Adults and children need to speak
00:16:33.460 --> 00:16:35.159
to people they don't know. And I don't say, you
00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:38.539
know, speak to strangers. But those skills are
00:16:38.539 --> 00:16:41.379
so fundamental. And if actually the easy option
00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:44.039
is to be at a bus stop or waiting in the queue
00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:46.419
in a shop and actually just looking at your phone.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:48.600
And we're all guilty of doing that. We're not
00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:51.559
flexing those interpersonal skills, those human
00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:54.740
-centered skills. I've been a bit awkward. And
00:16:54.740 --> 00:16:56.779
I know as a 12 year old, I played women's hockey.
00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:59.720
And back then I had to make conversation with
00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.379
grownups, which was really awkward. I think it
00:17:02.379 --> 00:17:04.579
really served me as I went through my teen years
00:17:04.579 --> 00:17:08.119
and my adulthood. So I think it's, yeah, pupil
00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:10.859
voices, we need to bring them along with us and
00:17:10.859 --> 00:17:13.720
to be non -judgmental. I think it's interesting
00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:16.220
how we are, I used that word again, didn't I?
00:17:17.180 --> 00:17:20.740
But as a school and an educational environment,
00:17:21.750 --> 00:17:23.950
Important to understand that change now that
00:17:23.950 --> 00:17:27.930
what we are all wanting to do is to develop those
00:17:27.930 --> 00:17:31.450
whole human beings to go out in the world. It's
00:17:31.450 --> 00:17:33.630
no longer about actually, we've got to give them
00:17:33.630 --> 00:17:36.309
all this knowledge so they can pass exams. And
00:17:36.309 --> 00:17:38.390
we've been talking about a real world curriculum
00:17:38.390 --> 00:17:40.369
that children are actually equipped with those
00:17:40.369 --> 00:17:43.269
skills. And most of that is actually their development
00:17:43.269 --> 00:17:47.609
of their character and their communication. Because
00:17:47.609 --> 00:17:49.269
fundamentally, that's what's going to get them
00:17:49.269 --> 00:17:51.470
a job, the kind of person they are. way in which
00:17:51.470 --> 00:17:53.970
they can communicate. I mean, well, what do you,
00:17:53.970 --> 00:17:55.589
I mean, we talk about, you know, we're developing
00:17:55.589 --> 00:17:56.849
these free thinkers. I mean, what, what does
00:17:56.849 --> 00:18:00.190
that look like from a curriculum kind of context
00:18:00.190 --> 00:18:02.109
and what, what we're doing within the curriculum
00:18:02.109 --> 00:18:04.730
to allow them to have that, that skillset? Yeah,
00:18:04.769 --> 00:18:06.809
of course. I mean, you know, problem solving
00:18:06.809 --> 00:18:11.059
is a, is a natural, you know, part of that. applying
00:18:11.059 --> 00:18:14.000
learning is really really key in terms of you
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.200
know if i'm if i'm teaching a mathematical method
00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:18.700
obviously there's a process to that but then
00:18:18.700 --> 00:18:20.259
how does that actually apply in a real world
00:18:20.259 --> 00:18:23.859
context i think is is really really key um i
00:18:23.859 --> 00:18:26.940
think encouraging healthy debating within classrooms
00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:30.019
as well is really important and i think you know
00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:31.900
there's something to be said on if i'm a critical
00:18:31.900 --> 00:18:33.819
thinker or if i'm a free thinker does that mean
00:18:33.819 --> 00:18:36.880
i'm just you know able to actively sort of critique
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.450
other people's opinions To an extent, yes, but
00:18:40.450 --> 00:18:44.230
being a critical thinker is all about being able
00:18:44.230 --> 00:18:46.470
to have a healthy debate and be able to respect
00:18:46.470 --> 00:18:49.369
other people's opinions as well. So a lot of
00:18:49.369 --> 00:18:53.170
work is done in the education sector about developing
00:18:53.170 --> 00:18:56.549
a child's voice and actually being able to hold
00:18:56.549 --> 00:19:02.089
a healthy debate and have a sort of mature conversation,
00:19:02.230 --> 00:19:06.609
I think. Of course, there's so much to be said
00:19:06.609 --> 00:19:09.230
in terms of STEM and scientific discovery and
00:19:09.230 --> 00:19:13.369
exploration of the world around them. My subject
00:19:13.369 --> 00:19:17.910
background is English and drama, and I think
00:19:17.910 --> 00:19:20.069
there's so much to be said there in terms of
00:19:20.069 --> 00:19:22.990
developing a pupil's voice within writing, looking
00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:25.009
at opposing points of view, balancing different
00:19:25.009 --> 00:19:29.309
arguments. Children might naturally be quite
00:19:29.309 --> 00:19:32.430
opinionated about a particular topic. I had a
00:19:32.430 --> 00:19:36.589
lesson a couple of days ago about libraries versus
00:19:36.589 --> 00:19:38.970
e -readers. Just a really interesting conversation,
00:19:39.109 --> 00:19:42.369
debate to have. And the children were so opinionated
00:19:42.369 --> 00:19:47.029
towards one or the other. And it was teaching
00:19:47.029 --> 00:19:49.529
them a way to sort of recognize different sides
00:19:49.529 --> 00:19:51.630
of the argument. And they do find that challenging
00:19:51.630 --> 00:19:55.950
at times, but as I said, it's our jobs as educators,
00:19:56.089 --> 00:19:58.609
as parents to make sure that we are providing
00:19:58.609 --> 00:20:00.329
the children with those skills because those
00:20:00.329 --> 00:20:02.029
are the skills they'll be using in later life.
00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:05.539
I was just as you were thinking, talking now,
00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:08.480
I was thinking that we talk about the anxious
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:10.539
generation, these children who are increasingly
00:20:10.539 --> 00:20:13.920
anxious. Are they anxious about getting it right,
00:20:14.059 --> 00:20:17.000
Kath? I mean, is that, what is causing the anxiety?
00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:18.960
Are they just anxious about getting something
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.039
wrong, about not fitting in? Yeah, I think it's
00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:23.579
a really good question. I think there's so much
00:20:23.579 --> 00:20:26.319
more comparison now. I think when we look back
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.740
at sort of previous generations, there wasn't
00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:31.440
much comparison. It would have been you compare
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:33.599
yourself to your neighbor down the street. Whereas
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.460
now for children, I think they, particularly
00:20:36.460 --> 00:20:40.259
teenagers, they are seeing what someone else
00:20:40.259 --> 00:20:43.339
is achieving, but actually they only have a snippet
00:20:43.339 --> 00:20:46.519
of actually what that person's life is. And I
00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:48.680
think it's... For teenagers, as we know, their
00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:51.819
brains are not developing until 25. I think that
00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:54.940
could be quite damaging. So I think within our
00:20:54.940 --> 00:20:56.720
curriculum, I know many other schools as well,
00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:59.900
we look at obviously our PSHE. But this theme
00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:03.099
of human intelligence, I think, is becoming more
00:21:03.099 --> 00:21:05.279
and more important. And I think, as Will mentioned,
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:09.720
we know that by 2030, the workplace are going
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.809
to be looking for... very different skills um
00:21:12.809 --> 00:21:15.849
so we've added in and myself and will work very
00:21:15.849 --> 00:21:17.329
closely together because we want that holistic
00:21:17.329 --> 00:21:20.349
education um but human intelligence we do on
00:21:20.349 --> 00:21:22.950
a monday morning um and this week we're looking
00:21:22.950 --> 00:21:24.630
at themes of you know what does it mean to be
00:21:24.630 --> 00:21:28.230
empathetic compared to sympathetic and apathetic
00:21:28.230 --> 00:21:30.890
um and for some young children they won't even
00:21:30.890 --> 00:21:33.329
know what the definition is to those words if
00:21:33.329 --> 00:21:36.240
they can learn it from an early age um we know
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:38.140
that empathy is the last skill they will learn
00:21:38.140 --> 00:21:40.880
and they say actually to be truly empathetic
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.039
you're probably gonna be in your 20s yeah to
00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:45.460
really understand so if we can drip feed it early
00:21:45.460 --> 00:21:48.259
on i think that's a fundamental skill going forward
00:21:48.259 --> 00:21:50.400
and i think you're right about the comparison
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:53.759
i think perhaps as parents we can sometimes be
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:56.779
um criticized for being kind of the snowplow
00:21:56.779 --> 00:22:00.789
parent that you don't want your child to um have
00:22:00.789 --> 00:22:02.650
to overcome things that are difficult and so
00:22:02.650 --> 00:22:04.529
on. So therefore you want to remove that barrier.
00:22:04.630 --> 00:22:06.569
But do you think that does make children more
00:22:06.569 --> 00:22:09.069
anxious when actually the parent is kind of being
00:22:09.069 --> 00:22:11.269
involved and getting rid of any barrier and you're
00:22:11.269 --> 00:22:14.029
not given the opportunity to fail? Yeah, I think
00:22:14.029 --> 00:22:15.829
that natural pressure for children, you know.
00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:18.839
whether we like it or not as an adult if we're
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:21.680
anxious and stressed and pushing that child maybe
00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.700
before they're ready that is going to have an
00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:26.279
impact on the child so it is kind of that long
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:28.660
game I think of education and not feeling it's
00:22:28.660 --> 00:22:31.799
a race and also kind of trying to park our own
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:35.059
feelings about achievement and success and allowing
00:22:35.059 --> 00:22:37.829
your child to frame success on their own terms.
00:22:37.990 --> 00:22:40.150
Yeah. Because I think we talk a lot about these
00:22:40.150 --> 00:22:41.990
sort of free thinking and then everyone's saying,
00:22:42.069 --> 00:22:44.150
but they've got to pass exams. I mean, can the
00:22:44.150 --> 00:22:47.170
two kind of live side by side, Will? Can you
00:22:47.170 --> 00:22:49.329
be, you know, preparing children for exams, be
00:22:49.329 --> 00:22:52.410
successful in exams in the current format that
00:22:52.410 --> 00:22:54.950
exams take, as well as being a free thinker?
00:22:55.210 --> 00:22:58.049
Yeah, I think there's elements to this sort of
00:22:58.049 --> 00:23:00.329
clear crossover with both. I think, you know,
00:23:00.349 --> 00:23:02.269
I think it's really important that the education
00:23:02.269 --> 00:23:06.630
sector doesn't base their curriculum on just
00:23:06.630 --> 00:23:09.809
preparing children to pass exams because ultimately
00:23:09.809 --> 00:23:14.130
we are all here to make sure that that children
00:23:14.130 --> 00:23:18.069
develop a sort of lifelong love of learning um
00:23:18.069 --> 00:23:22.720
and you know It will be quite easy in some ways
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:25.759
to teach children certain concepts through just
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:27.819
rote learning to pass an exam. But actually,
00:23:27.859 --> 00:23:29.819
are those skills going to really benefit them
00:23:29.819 --> 00:23:32.480
within the long term? And, you know, there's
00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:35.119
been interviews with big companies like Google
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:39.210
and Khan Academy who look at. um cvs of recent
00:23:39.210 --> 00:23:41.490
graduates and you know they might have you know
00:23:41.490 --> 00:23:43.910
a first at an excellent university you know fantastic
00:23:43.910 --> 00:23:47.009
brilliant but actually can they collaborate can
00:23:47.009 --> 00:23:49.390
they problem solve can they work as a team do
00:23:49.390 --> 00:23:52.970
they have strategic thinking um so i think i
00:23:52.970 --> 00:23:56.130
think there are It does slightly go hand in hand,
00:23:56.170 --> 00:23:58.529
but I think as an education sector, we definitely
00:23:58.529 --> 00:24:02.170
need to look at both. Yeah, I agree. And I hope
00:24:02.170 --> 00:24:04.230
at some point we'll have some evolution away
00:24:04.230 --> 00:24:07.809
from exams that are purely knowledge based and
00:24:07.809 --> 00:24:10.190
become more skills based. But that's a different
00:24:10.190 --> 00:24:12.990
conversation, I think. Yeah, exactly. And this
00:24:12.990 --> 00:24:15.690
idea of project based learning, you know, there's...
00:24:15.930 --> 00:24:18.009
conflicting research you know about the benefits
00:24:18.009 --> 00:24:20.450
of project -based learning but at least it provides
00:24:20.450 --> 00:24:24.230
pupils with an opportunity to have choice and
00:24:24.230 --> 00:24:26.650
autonomy within what they want to learn and how
00:24:26.650 --> 00:24:28.470
they want their sort of pathway to go with the
00:24:28.470 --> 00:24:30.589
right direction and with the right guidance and
00:24:30.589 --> 00:24:32.430
that can be a really important skill to develop
00:24:32.430 --> 00:24:35.309
sort of independent thinking as well and to maybe
00:24:35.309 --> 00:24:38.190
start with not having an idea but having a concept
00:24:38.190 --> 00:24:41.210
and then that concept develops and develops.
00:24:41.390 --> 00:24:42.910
And then by the end of it, you've actually got
00:24:42.910 --> 00:24:44.809
something that you're quite proud of. Really
00:24:44.809 --> 00:24:46.869
interesting. I think probably we've talked quite
00:24:46.869 --> 00:24:49.869
a lot about this idea about free thinking, but
00:24:49.869 --> 00:24:53.670
the concept of thinking, I mean, I don't know
00:24:53.670 --> 00:24:55.990
about you, but that you'll know certain people
00:24:55.990 --> 00:24:58.849
in your life that were known as daydreamers.
00:24:59.470 --> 00:25:01.870
I wonder whether they do enough. daydreaming
00:25:01.870 --> 00:25:04.349
or do we see people daydreaming? I don't know.
00:25:04.410 --> 00:25:06.910
What do you think? Is it still a thing? Are people
00:25:06.910 --> 00:25:09.710
too over -occupied? I think it's a luxury, sadly,
00:25:09.809 --> 00:25:13.450
these days. I remember daydreaming as a child,
00:25:13.529 --> 00:25:17.210
but I think as an adult, it's very rare. So I
00:25:17.210 --> 00:25:19.130
do wonder about the younger generation, whether...
00:25:19.420 --> 00:25:21.500
They know how to daydream. Or give themselves
00:25:21.500 --> 00:25:23.980
permission to do it. Absolutely. I did have a
00:25:23.980 --> 00:25:26.660
wonderful bit of feedback from a senior school.
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:29.740
So the child was in an interview for their place
00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:31.460
at senior school and they were asked, you know,
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:33.619
what do you like doing in your free time? He
00:25:33.619 --> 00:25:36.519
said, thinking. And the school said to me, what
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:39.980
a wonderful response. Because, I mean, who can
00:25:39.980 --> 00:25:42.359
argue with that? How wonderful it is to, I mean,
00:25:42.380 --> 00:25:44.400
do we give children enough time to think, Will?
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:46.000
I mean, what's your thinking? It's interesting
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:50.390
in education because, Education is quite fast
00:25:50.390 --> 00:25:53.029
paced and there's always a sort of goal and there's
00:25:53.029 --> 00:25:55.910
always, you know, a sort of purpose of something.
00:25:56.410 --> 00:25:58.630
And often, you know, reflecting on, you know,
00:25:58.630 --> 00:26:01.470
some of my teaching, if there's a sort of broad
00:26:01.470 --> 00:26:05.029
question that I've asked to the class, it might
00:26:05.029 --> 00:26:06.549
be something that I thought about quite a lot
00:26:06.549 --> 00:26:08.789
before I planned that lesson. But for the children,
00:26:08.829 --> 00:26:11.049
it's the first time them seeing it. And actually,
00:26:11.130 --> 00:26:15.329
it's okay for a child maybe to have a few moments
00:26:15.329 --> 00:26:17.329
thinking and they might just be sat there and
00:26:17.329 --> 00:26:19.039
they might be. looking like they're daydreaming
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:20.779
i've had conversations gone over to children
00:26:20.779 --> 00:26:22.859
and said you know you're okay no i'm just just
00:26:22.859 --> 00:26:24.700
thinking about that just just mulling it over
00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:27.539
that's that's fine so giving them that time um
00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:30.460
i think i think is important yeah it just made
00:26:30.460 --> 00:26:32.619
me think kath when we talk about our behavior
00:26:32.619 --> 00:26:36.640
in school rather than saying a punishment we
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:39.799
do talk about reflective time yeah how does that
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:43.289
work i think approach to behavior Obviously still
00:26:43.289 --> 00:26:44.950
having boundaries. I think it's really important
00:26:44.950 --> 00:26:47.029
to start with that. Boundaries keep children
00:26:47.029 --> 00:26:50.130
safe. But I think that restorative approach rather
00:26:50.130 --> 00:26:52.769
than punitive is really important. So actually
00:26:52.769 --> 00:26:55.109
coaching that child through they've made a mistake.
00:26:55.369 --> 00:26:57.150
They haven't been in line with our expectation.
00:26:57.470 --> 00:27:01.670
And this links into parenting as well. And actually
00:27:01.670 --> 00:27:05.170
considering how can we help them understand how
00:27:05.170 --> 00:27:07.230
to do it better next time. And it's really trying
00:27:07.230 --> 00:27:10.299
to mitigate. that past behaviour continuing.
00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:14.099
So I think in every school around the country,
00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:16.539
I do think things are evolving when it comes
00:27:16.539 --> 00:27:19.319
to behaviour. So it's effectively a conversation
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:21.980
in order for them to think about their behaviour
00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:24.180
and reflect on it. Yeah, and it's also making
00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:26.500
sure it's relevant to what's happened. You know,
00:27:26.539 --> 00:27:29.759
it's not actually just putting a child in detention
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:32.019
and that's it. There's no learning. So there
00:27:32.019 --> 00:27:34.740
has to be behind the mistake the child's made
00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:37.769
that... two -way dialogue to say, you know, how
00:27:37.769 --> 00:27:39.930
do you feel in that moment? And nine times out
00:27:39.930 --> 00:27:42.250
of 10, it's normally when the child has had a
00:27:42.250 --> 00:27:44.670
busy day, they're stressed and they're deregulated
00:27:44.670 --> 00:27:47.089
and they need someone to sit alongside them and
00:27:47.089 --> 00:27:49.829
say, we can do better than this. And I think
00:27:49.829 --> 00:27:53.150
it's just having that balance of boundaries whilst
00:27:53.150 --> 00:27:57.009
also showing you care. Yeah. Just going through
00:27:57.009 --> 00:27:59.609
my mind there, children sometimes don't like
00:27:59.609 --> 00:28:01.509
to be different. You know, we talk about school
00:28:01.509 --> 00:28:03.509
uniform is actually a really positive thing because
00:28:03.509 --> 00:28:06.369
they don't want to be they don't want to look
00:28:06.369 --> 00:28:08.809
different. And even if you don't have a uniform,
00:28:09.049 --> 00:28:11.049
what you find is that they all want a certain
00:28:11.049 --> 00:28:12.730
brand of jacket and they all end up wearing a
00:28:12.730 --> 00:28:16.430
type of uniform anyway. So it is something we
00:28:16.430 --> 00:28:18.690
kind of have to draw out of children, don't we?
00:28:18.829 --> 00:28:21.869
And obviously some of those influences are about
00:28:21.869 --> 00:28:24.049
fashion, but sometimes they can be quite negative
00:28:24.049 --> 00:28:26.130
influences and they don't want to be different
00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:28.569
from the group. So they become involved in group
00:28:28.569 --> 00:28:31.920
behaviour. Have you got any advice, Kath, about
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:35.259
how parents can manage that situation where they
00:28:35.259 --> 00:28:37.519
think they're being influenced negatively by
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:40.559
their peer group? Yeah, and I think when we particularly
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:42.940
think about children kind of year seven and above,
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:46.559
hitting the teenage years, they are naturally
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.059
going to be influenced. But it's really thinking
00:28:49.059 --> 00:28:52.279
carefully how they can have the confidence to
00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:54.440
know right from wrong or actually listen to that
00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:56.339
inner voice that goes, actually, I'm not comfortable
00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:58.799
with this. And I think for parents, it's just,
00:28:59.289 --> 00:29:01.250
at the end of the school day, is being able to
00:29:01.250 --> 00:29:03.809
talk to them and say, what happened today? And
00:29:03.809 --> 00:29:06.589
coming from at it. from a an angle that's not
00:29:06.589 --> 00:29:09.750
judgmental um you're not lecturing them it's
00:29:09.750 --> 00:29:11.450
just saying you know how did that make you feel
00:29:11.450 --> 00:29:13.849
when that happened or did you how did you step
00:29:13.849 --> 00:29:15.910
back that must have been really difficult um
00:29:15.910 --> 00:29:17.730
but again i think that's something that's evolving
00:29:17.730 --> 00:29:19.890
but the more we have conversations with children
00:29:19.890 --> 00:29:22.569
the more they're going to learn actually what's
00:29:22.569 --> 00:29:24.710
right for them in that moment yeah and they will
00:29:24.710 --> 00:29:27.069
make some mistakes yeah i think and not to be
00:29:27.069 --> 00:29:29.809
afraid of that yeah yeah and i think um sort
00:29:29.809 --> 00:29:34.190
of We want children to make choices and make
00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:37.049
decisions, but sometimes they might be influenced
00:29:37.049 --> 00:29:41.309
by other people, by other things, and actually
00:29:41.309 --> 00:29:45.170
encouraging the children to reflect on maybe
00:29:45.170 --> 00:29:47.470
why they've made that decision. And it might
00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:49.569
be that they want a brand new jacket because
00:29:49.569 --> 00:29:51.910
their friend has got that brand new jacket and
00:29:51.910 --> 00:29:53.890
that is the reason why, but it might be a wider
00:29:53.890 --> 00:29:55.609
thing as well. So I think having that conversation
00:29:55.609 --> 00:29:58.490
as to... You've made the decision or that's the
00:29:58.490 --> 00:30:01.009
choice that you've got. What's actually influenced
00:30:01.009 --> 00:30:03.650
that? And children will be naturally influenced
00:30:03.650 --> 00:30:06.210
by others at different stages throughout their
00:30:06.210 --> 00:30:08.269
adolescence, throughout their childhood. And
00:30:08.269 --> 00:30:09.970
it's recognizing that there are going to be sort
00:30:09.970 --> 00:30:11.569
of peaks and troughs in that and children will
00:30:11.569 --> 00:30:13.450
find their own voice and their own individual
00:30:13.450 --> 00:30:17.890
character at some point. And it's not being sort
00:30:17.890 --> 00:30:19.910
of worried about when that will happen because
00:30:19.910 --> 00:30:23.670
I'm sure it will happen eventually. you know
00:30:23.670 --> 00:30:26.230
even as even as adults you're still navigating
00:30:26.230 --> 00:30:28.849
around and you know finding out things out for
00:30:28.849 --> 00:30:31.109
yourselves so you know i think that's important
00:30:31.109 --> 00:30:33.930
to recognize yeah and and and a key part of that
00:30:33.930 --> 00:30:36.569
is having time isn't it and i think it comes
00:30:36.569 --> 00:30:38.829
back this idea of not over organizing your evenings
00:30:38.829 --> 00:30:40.730
and your weekends and your holiday time with
00:30:40.730 --> 00:30:42.990
your children because you need time to have these
00:30:42.990 --> 00:30:46.740
conversations with them um and and pick how they're
00:30:46.740 --> 00:30:49.740
thinking and, and help them, um, with that thinking
00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:52.539
process. And by just, you know, listening, so
00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:55.119
important just to listen to children. And the
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:56.839
amount of times I remember being a house mistress
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:00.259
and, um, you know, Girls would come and chat
00:31:00.259 --> 00:31:02.039
and say, could I have some advice or can I talk
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:03.980
to you? And you'd sit there and they would talk
00:31:03.980 --> 00:31:06.200
for ages. And then they'd say, oh, thanks so
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:07.980
much for your advice. And you think, I didn't
00:31:07.980 --> 00:31:10.019
actually say anything. But it was that process
00:31:10.019 --> 00:31:13.079
for them of just having that space to kind of
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:15.059
unpick how they were feeling and perhaps what
00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:18.140
they wanted to do as a result of that. And I
00:31:18.140 --> 00:31:20.119
think linked to that as well is how do we help
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:22.779
children clearly think? Because I think as adults,
00:31:22.819 --> 00:31:25.779
we know we think up our best ideas when we're...
00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:28.079
able to have that space to clearly think yeah
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:31.400
um and i know um During my career, I've had a
00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:33.200
few children say they feel really stressed when
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:35.440
they arrive home because the parents automatically
00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:37.339
asking, you know, what was your day like? How
00:31:37.339 --> 00:31:41.000
did it go? What, what, anything happen? And the
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:42.640
child will communicate quite clearly. I just
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:44.619
want to go into my house, have a snack, have
00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:47.400
a shower, get into my comfy clothes, and then
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:49.400
I'm ready to have that conversation. So I think
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:51.720
there's a timing piece with this as well. Absolutely.
00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:54.299
Absolutely. Okay. So if we, if we were going
00:31:54.299 --> 00:31:57.500
to leave our, give hopefully our listeners a
00:31:57.500 --> 00:32:01.720
few practical tips. about how to develop free
00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:04.819
thinking, confident young people, which is hopefully
00:32:04.819 --> 00:32:07.140
what we're doing here at our school. What would
00:32:07.140 --> 00:32:10.599
they be? Some practical tips that we could give
00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:15.980
up these people? Yeah, I think, as I said before,
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:19.180
making sure that we're actively engaging and
00:32:19.180 --> 00:32:21.920
having shared experiences with our children and
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:25.880
modelling that kind of curiosity and being prepared
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:29.440
that... not that there's no sort of silly questions.
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:31.180
If a child has a question, you know, naturally
00:32:31.180 --> 00:32:32.980
children are curious. They want to find out about
00:32:32.980 --> 00:32:35.059
the world around them, their interests, they
00:32:35.059 --> 00:32:37.920
want to ask why, and actually playing into that
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.180
a little bit. And, you know, as I said, if a
00:32:40.180 --> 00:32:42.619
child has a question, ask them the question back
00:32:42.619 --> 00:32:44.660
or get them to think about it in a slightly different
00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:48.680
way. And, you know, giving them little problems
00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:50.759
to solve here and there, little practical problems
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:54.299
to solve, you know, prompts for discussion, as
00:32:54.299 --> 00:32:57.220
you said earlier. earlier emma um there's some
00:32:57.220 --> 00:32:59.400
you know brilliant educational platforms out
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:02.220
there which can really um support children to
00:33:02.220 --> 00:33:05.279
think freely and creatively um whether that's
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:07.660
problem solving in maths or whether that's you
00:33:07.660 --> 00:33:11.420
know reading a an exciting um article um which
00:33:11.420 --> 00:33:15.220
provokes debate and discussion um so i i think
00:33:15.220 --> 00:33:18.900
it's i think it's And engaging mostly with the
00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:22.819
children in those conversations and being actively
00:33:22.819 --> 00:33:25.660
curious yourself. Yeah. And learning new skills
00:33:25.660 --> 00:33:27.779
as an adult and showing your child that you're
00:33:27.779 --> 00:33:29.700
happy to fail as well, that you're not very good
00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:32.240
at, you know, often. Oh, I remember my children
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:34.799
when they first started playing, you know, Mario
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:36.900
Kart Wii or whatever it was kind of on computer
00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:39.039
game. I hadn't got a clue and they found it hilarious
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:41.079
that I couldn't do it and I actually didn't get
00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:43.380
any better. But, you know, sometimes seeing you
00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:45.720
as an adult fail is a really positive thing for
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:49.099
them. I would also say reaching out for help
00:33:49.099 --> 00:33:52.839
as an adult is not feeling that you need to have
00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:55.059
all the answers because that can feel quite overwhelming.
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:57.720
So I think it's encouraging parents, you know,
00:33:57.779 --> 00:34:00.640
whatever school your child goes to, is that reach
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:02.559
out to whether it's the members of staff that
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:06.099
you think might know the answer because we know
00:34:06.099 --> 00:34:08.260
that actually, Right now, we don't know all the
00:34:08.260 --> 00:34:10.599
answers. And just this morning, I had a parent
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:12.079
say, I don't know if actually you can help me.
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:14.320
And I didn't really help them. They just were
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:16.340
able to have a space with me for 10 minutes.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:18.920
And I think that can really help adults feel
00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:22.119
that they're not alone. And no one's winning.
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:24.920
No one is doing a brilliant job. It's just we
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:28.179
all learn from others. Just quite specific, but
00:34:28.179 --> 00:34:33.210
I love a puzzle, a board game. or a sort of mystery
00:34:33.210 --> 00:34:35.530
game that you can share with as a family and
00:34:35.530 --> 00:34:37.929
i think those shared experiences collective family
00:34:37.929 --> 00:34:40.349
experiences around the table that's certainly
00:34:40.349 --> 00:34:43.309
the sort of memories i had you know growing up
00:34:43.309 --> 00:34:46.130
and i think sometimes there can be the tendency
00:34:46.130 --> 00:34:49.269
to live and work in isolation at times even though
00:34:49.269 --> 00:34:51.210
we're sort of maybe connected through devices
00:34:51.210 --> 00:34:54.769
and social media but actually let's put all those
00:34:54.769 --> 00:34:57.889
sort of that tech away and that's actually just
00:34:57.889 --> 00:35:02.469
enjoy company and discussion and, you know, problem
00:35:02.469 --> 00:35:05.409
solve together. And, you know, there's so much
00:35:05.409 --> 00:35:07.329
to be said about shared reading experiences as
00:35:07.329 --> 00:35:10.670
well. You know, taking your children to. a library
00:35:10.670 --> 00:35:13.710
or a bookshop and spending time there, getting
00:35:13.710 --> 00:35:15.829
them to explore the bookshelves, reading blurbs,
00:35:15.829 --> 00:35:18.710
reading extracts together. So it's not just,
00:35:18.730 --> 00:35:20.829
you know, downloading a book on a Kindle and
00:35:20.829 --> 00:35:23.389
the child reads it. It's, you know, explore that
00:35:23.389 --> 00:35:26.349
together. Let's have a chat with the person at
00:35:26.349 --> 00:35:28.429
the bookshop. Let's spend some time, let's set
00:35:28.429 --> 00:35:31.050
aside a time to do that. And I think, you know,
00:35:31.050 --> 00:35:33.329
that can be said for anything in terms of museums
00:35:33.329 --> 00:35:36.579
or trips, you know, I think having that. those
00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:38.840
sort of tangible shared experiences are really
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:40.599
key. Yeah. I heard about something recently,
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:42.079
which I hadn't heard of before, which is called
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:45.460
an awe walk. So to go for a walk with the child
00:35:45.460 --> 00:35:47.199
and say, right, we're going to look at awesome
00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:50.199
things. What can we see? And I thought, well,
00:35:50.300 --> 00:35:51.579
that sounds a bit odd. I don't know whether I
00:35:51.579 --> 00:35:54.139
could do that. Having done it myself, I thought,
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.820
what would I say to a child? And if you think
00:35:56.820 --> 00:36:00.760
about nature, it is awesome. And making them
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:02.280
look up, and we've all heard about that, look
00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:05.900
up, not look down. But again, that stimulates
00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:08.380
some really interesting conversations about what
00:36:08.380 --> 00:36:11.920
we just see when we go for a walk and just explore
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.400
nature and how it evolves and the impact it has
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.039
on our well -being as well. Yeah, and I think
00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:19.360
from a school's perspective as well. It's really
00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:21.239
important that we provide children with sort
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:24.280
of rich, authentic, interesting reading material.
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:26.079
And I think there's something to be said for
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:29.079
that with families at home as well. You know,
00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:31.920
if we're looking at some news sources or we're
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:36.280
looking at a text together or a piece of reading
00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:40.380
together, just making it stimulating and exciting.
00:36:42.219 --> 00:36:44.260
making it something which is genuine and real,
00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:46.679
I think is really key. You can spot the English
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:48.460
teachers here, can't you? Absolutely. I have
00:36:48.460 --> 00:36:50.320
to say, from a physical point of view as well,
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:53.719
we as a family enjoy being outside and sport
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:55.980
and so on. But we used to do kind of like challenges
00:36:55.980 --> 00:36:58.900
in the summer. And like, you know, not just a
00:36:58.900 --> 00:37:00.340
physical challenge, but it would be who would
00:37:00.340 --> 00:37:03.480
be the fastest person to build the highest tower
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:05.820
with kind of like the wood pile. And it was just
00:37:05.820 --> 00:37:07.880
that kind of getting kids to think. you know,
00:37:07.900 --> 00:37:09.980
creatively, because in fact, one of the children
00:37:09.980 --> 00:37:12.320
brought the wheelie bin round and then put the
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:14.380
wood on top of it. And we said, hang on a minute.
00:37:14.460 --> 00:37:16.380
They said, you didn't say we couldn't. But, you
00:37:16.380 --> 00:37:18.679
know, it's seeing, looking at things from a different
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:20.679
perspective. I think we know now, you know, the
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:24.000
strong correlation between our physical health
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:26.260
with our mental health. And I think that's something
00:37:26.260 --> 00:37:28.619
lots of schools are trying to sort of bridge
00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:30.940
that gap and make sure they work in tandem together.
00:37:31.460 --> 00:37:33.280
Because we all know that actually, if we have
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:35.500
that conversation on a walk, you know, we're
00:37:35.500 --> 00:37:37.130
not only helping our mental health, but we're
00:37:37.130 --> 00:37:39.730
also getting out in fresh air and actually it's
00:37:39.730 --> 00:37:42.170
probably going to be a much better conversation.
00:37:42.409 --> 00:37:44.809
Yeah. Sort of side by side, which I know you've
00:37:44.809 --> 00:37:46.610
mentioned before. Just on that kind of problem
00:37:46.610 --> 00:37:49.789
solving thing, there's a, like a taskmaster book.
00:37:49.909 --> 00:37:52.030
There's a sort of famous TV program called Taskmaster.
00:37:52.610 --> 00:37:54.929
I think there's a child's taskmaster actually,
00:37:54.989 --> 00:37:58.690
which is sort of online at the moment, but that's
00:37:58.690 --> 00:38:00.510
a really interesting way to get children to think
00:38:00.510 --> 00:38:02.210
outside the box. You know, this is your task.
00:38:02.269 --> 00:38:04.769
How are you going to solve it? Totally. We did
00:38:04.769 --> 00:38:06.840
a lot of that in COVID. have to say. We did a
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:08.599
lot of that type of thing, but it was brilliant.
00:38:08.699 --> 00:38:11.260
And I think, you know, we are noticing in our
00:38:11.260 --> 00:38:14.179
school community, the diversity of learning profiles
00:38:14.179 --> 00:38:17.639
and really to celebrate when people think differently
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:20.260
and, you know, whether you want to label it or
00:38:20.260 --> 00:38:25.500
not. that there are people who have an unusual,
00:38:25.780 --> 00:38:28.400
when I mean unusual, I mean not the majority
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:30.440
of people. And actually let's celebrate that
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:33.139
because they do think outside the box. And you
00:38:33.139 --> 00:38:35.039
think of all the entrepreneurs who, if you look
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:36.880
at their learning profiles, are really interesting.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.539
So it's celebrating that. If you do have a child
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:41.659
that thinks differently or has a different kind
00:38:41.659 --> 00:38:46.159
of profile, what a gift to be able to be a natural
00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:49.650
free thinker as well. We're coming to the end
00:38:49.650 --> 00:38:51.150
of our conversation. I bet you can't even believe
00:38:51.150 --> 00:38:55.429
this. But the most important thing, I think,
00:38:55.429 --> 00:38:57.469
in schools at the minute is having the right
00:38:57.469 --> 00:39:01.489
adults working with the children in order to
00:39:01.489 --> 00:39:05.570
draw out the skills. And I ask in all of my podcasts
00:39:05.570 --> 00:39:08.889
about, you know, is there someone you know or
00:39:08.889 --> 00:39:10.530
you can think of who's famous who would have
00:39:10.530 --> 00:39:13.920
made a brilliant teacher? Is there anyone that,
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:15.420
I know it's really difficult and everyone hates
00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:16.659
me for this question, but is there anyone that
00:39:16.659 --> 00:39:18.099
springs to mind? Do you think, actually, I'd
00:39:18.099 --> 00:39:20.219
have loved to have been taught by this teacher
00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:22.900
or there's someone that I've met who would be
00:39:22.900 --> 00:39:28.139
really interesting? There's silence in the room.
00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:32.980
It's a really hard question. I mean, Will, who
00:39:32.980 --> 00:39:34.760
would you love to have been taught English by?
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:36.460
I've had William Shakespeare, so you can't have
00:39:36.460 --> 00:39:39.500
William Shakespeare, but, or an actor or a...
00:39:40.250 --> 00:39:46.110
Somebody who you might think. Might need a bit
00:39:46.110 --> 00:39:48.730
of thinking time. What about, would you want
00:39:48.730 --> 00:39:55.730
to be taught drama by Kenneth Branagh? Yes. Clearly
00:39:55.730 --> 00:40:00.010
not a Kenneth Branagh fan. But I wonder whether
00:40:00.010 --> 00:40:02.949
it would be interesting to be taught English
00:40:02.949 --> 00:40:08.050
by a director, because then you would get that
00:40:08.050 --> 00:40:11.550
kind of interpretive analysis. I always think
00:40:11.550 --> 00:40:14.190
that might be quite interesting to have been
00:40:14.190 --> 00:40:17.409
taught by, I don't know, Peter Hall or somebody
00:40:17.409 --> 00:40:20.730
like that. I might let you off, Will. Kath, anyone
00:40:20.730 --> 00:40:23.030
that you would have been? It's such a good question.
00:40:23.110 --> 00:40:26.039
I'm a little bit stumped, but... um for me being
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:29.480
a PE teacher um I was a massive fan growing up
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:31.860
with Kelly Holmes when she won the double and
00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:33.380
her energy and I've listened to quite a few of
00:40:33.380 --> 00:40:35.380
her podcasts but I can imagine if she was my
00:40:35.380 --> 00:40:37.699
PE teacher at school um she's got a great way
00:40:37.699 --> 00:40:40.099
of connecting with people and I think that's
00:40:40.099 --> 00:40:42.539
the key part of being a good teacher is being
00:40:42.539 --> 00:40:44.460
able to connect yeah because I think we know
00:40:44.460 --> 00:40:47.480
children learn from teachers that not necessarily
00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:50.059
they like but they respect yeah And they have
00:40:50.059 --> 00:40:51.980
that connection. Yeah, I think there's something
00:40:51.980 --> 00:40:54.079
really to be said on that. I think connections
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:56.019
with adults is hugely important. You might have
00:40:56.019 --> 00:40:59.119
the most sort of academic and intelligent person,
00:40:59.179 --> 00:41:01.480
but actually can they make a connection with
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:04.539
that child? And we don't learn unless we feel
00:41:04.539 --> 00:41:08.039
comfortable and unless we feel safe. We can't
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:11.199
challenge ourselves unless we feel like we're
00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:12.920
in an environment where we can challenge ourselves.
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:15.760
So I think that relationship is hugely important.
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.739
And that's certainly... what i would look for
00:41:18.739 --> 00:41:21.639
not giving you a specific name but someone who
00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:23.420
can relate you got out of that one really well
00:41:23.420 --> 00:41:25.820
well i mean i mean just because i always find
00:41:25.820 --> 00:41:28.500
this interesting who was your best teacher at
00:41:28.500 --> 00:41:30.820
school who who was it and why were they or your
00:41:30.820 --> 00:41:33.480
favorite best whatever how would you give a shout
00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:34.860
out you never know they might you never know
00:41:34.860 --> 00:41:36.969
they might be listening they are So although,
00:41:37.050 --> 00:41:39.090
you know, PEW is one of my favourite subjects,
00:41:39.389 --> 00:41:42.969
I actually loved my English lessons. And I'm
00:41:42.969 --> 00:41:44.510
not saying that in the presence of two English
00:41:44.510 --> 00:41:47.110
teachers. But her name was Mrs. Watts. So I don't
00:41:47.110 --> 00:41:50.170
know where she is now. But what set her apart
00:41:50.170 --> 00:41:52.469
is she had a sense of humour and she brought
00:41:52.469 --> 00:41:55.670
the lessons alive. And I actually got some of
00:41:55.670 --> 00:41:58.349
the best results because, probably wasn't natural
00:41:58.349 --> 00:42:00.329
to me, but because she brought me along with
00:42:00.329 --> 00:42:03.449
her, she had, you know, she really cared. So
00:42:03.449 --> 00:42:06.679
she really sort of stands out for me. Yeah. And
00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:10.659
for me, there's two. One was actually a French
00:42:10.659 --> 00:42:14.800
teacher in year nine, I think. I mean, I sort
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.599
of lost a bit of love of the subject early on
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:20.300
at secondary school. And this teacher just really
00:42:20.300 --> 00:42:22.480
changed the way I thought about language. And
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:26.860
I've had an interest in it ever since. And the
00:42:26.860 --> 00:42:31.099
other is my GCSE English teacher, a man called
00:42:31.099 --> 00:42:35.619
Mr. Parsons. so inspirational, so slightly quirky
00:42:35.619 --> 00:42:39.619
in a way, but very creative. And, you know, he
00:42:39.619 --> 00:42:42.920
is the reason really why I pursued my sort of
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:46.179
degree in English. And, you know, partly the
00:42:46.179 --> 00:42:48.099
reasons why I'm in education today. What was
00:42:48.099 --> 00:42:51.179
his name? Mr. Parsons. Yeah. And I do think you
00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:53.480
can underestimate the influence of teachers,
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:57.360
but everyone sort of probably has that name that
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:00.980
they can remember. And again, that's partly because
00:43:00.980 --> 00:43:03.659
of the rapport that he had with the children
00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:05.659
in front of him and the way that he delivered
00:43:05.659 --> 00:43:08.119
the lessons rather than necessarily what he taught
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:11.039
us. Yeah. And mine was my own future. And I think,
00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:13.369
I do think. English is one of those subjects
00:43:13.369 --> 00:43:15.269
where you do talk about human emotion and you
00:43:15.269 --> 00:43:18.309
are asking children how they relate to a poem
00:43:18.309 --> 00:43:21.010
or they relate to a context that a novel might
00:43:21.010 --> 00:43:23.289
be about. And it's exactly what we've been talking
00:43:23.289 --> 00:43:25.130
about, this idea of giving children the opportunity
00:43:25.130 --> 00:43:27.150
to talk about the way they feel. And I would
00:43:27.150 --> 00:43:29.070
say, and I think I might have mentioned this
00:43:29.070 --> 00:43:31.329
on an earlier podcast, that Mrs Gibb was my English
00:43:31.329 --> 00:43:34.210
and drama teacher. Again, slightly quirky, very
00:43:34.210 --> 00:43:37.150
much a free thinker. She was brilliant with all
00:43:37.150 --> 00:43:38.829
of the naughty children. And I remember there
00:43:38.829 --> 00:43:41.190
came a point in my career where I wanted to tell
00:43:41.190 --> 00:43:44.130
her and unfortunately she passed away and I always
00:43:44.130 --> 00:43:46.789
regret that I didn't tell her. So I hope Mr Parsons
00:43:46.789 --> 00:43:49.690
and your PE teacher are listening and knowing
00:43:49.690 --> 00:43:52.300
what an impact they had on you. Thank you. This
00:43:52.300 --> 00:43:55.579
has been amazing and a real treat for me to sit
00:43:55.579 --> 00:43:58.760
down with two of my brilliant team to talk about
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:01.940
free thinking and maybe the way in which we can
00:44:01.940 --> 00:44:03.780
support parents in encouraging that at home.
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:06.519
So thank you so much for being on The Educational
00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:08.519
Dilemma. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thanks.
00:44:09.500 --> 00:44:13.360
Thank you for listening to today's dilemma. If
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.239
you'd like to hear more about what I get up to,
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:18.239
please follow me on Instagram at Head & Heels.
00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:20.039
Or if you want to learn more about the Dragon
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:23.619
School, our Instagram account is Dragonschooloxford.
00:44:24.059 --> 00:44:26.300
And if you've got any ideas or dilemmas you'd
00:44:26.300 --> 00:44:29.619
like us to discuss, please do email us at podcast
00:44:29.619 --> 00:44:33.840
at dragonschool .org. So until next time.