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Speaker 1: Appoche Production.
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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, it's Beck here from Tenderness for Nurses. This next two episodes are going to be Part A and Part B. Part A is going to be around addiction and alcohol misuse disorder. There are going to be some hard subjects that we are talking about, including death by suicide. So if you find these subjects triggering, please beware of the content that is going to follow. Part A. We're talking about addiction and Part B is definitely more focus on death by suicide. So we felt that these episodes needed to be shared and these topics need to be discussed. So I want to say enjoy, but I hope this gives you some idea as to what people and families go through. Hi guys, it's Beck Woodbine here from Tenderness for Nurses. I just want to let you all know that this episode has been supported by CMR. So from nurses to doctors to allied health professionals, CMR is here to connect you with opportunities that support the work you love and the life you want to lead. So together we're building a happier healthcare community. Want to learn more, then I will add the link down the bottom, which is CMR dot com dot U, but Cornerstone Medical Recruitment just look at healthcare differently and how they support the healthcare teams that they provide employment for. So definitely check them out, have a chat with them and see if there's something they can do for you. Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity to.
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Speaker 1: Be, so I hit it and parked it for Nellie four years. We always have free will, We always get to choose. We are autonomous.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to Part B of this tough conversation about addiction. We're going to continue right from where we left last week, so if you haven't heard Part A, please go back and listen to that first. Thank you, And I suppose that then leads us into a Part B of this conversation. Sean had been in and out of rehabs. He'd been overseas in amazing rehabs over there, had done well, would do amazing for a period of time, and then, like you said, you're not sure whatever would trigger him, but he would start drinking in secret again to the point where he decided he couldn't do it. Anymore, and you came home one day to find he had passed at his own hands. That, yeah, I know the impact that had on me, let alone, you guys, because I'd had an issue with alcohol, and that if I hadn't i've had the help or, by the grace of God, never drunk again, that could have been me. And I found that really confronted. Yeah, but I wasn't living it. You were. How have you coped?
00:03:37
Speaker 1: I think I say that, you know, every other day, I say, if it wasn't for my friends, they have been amazing. And you know, I think women, especially women over fifty, need girlfriends absolutely. And you know, my lifelong friend got on the first plane from Darwin and just moved in just to be there, you know, and every he did. You know, you were ringing every day, and you know, my brother's were ringing, my mum and dad and you know, I absolutely had the support. But I think my daughters, you know, while no daughter should ever have to go through that, you know, and they were they'd lost their dad. We found comfort in each other and we were very open and very honest, and we just talked and talked and talked day in day out, Like especially those first two weeks and.
00:04:35
Speaker 2: Very much no room for shame was there.
00:04:37
Speaker 1: No death by suicide has has There's no dignity in it. It's public. You are public conversation. You know, from the second I called TRIPLEO. That day, I was exposed. When the first responder turns up at your door, they just keep coming and they and just keep coming that day, and there was so many people in my house and I'm a very private person in that respect, and and the news filters out, and we've got so many friends, and you know, and then the phone starts ringing, and funny enough, you hear a lot of people say, oh, you know, you're so strong. I could never do this. You know, there's no way I would be able to do this. And the reality is, bag, You've got to get up every day and live. You know. I couldn't just go to bed.
00:05:25
Speaker 2: And just lie there, just lay there.
00:05:27
Speaker 1: I had to get up and I had to keep going, and I did, and movement was very important. Within a few days, we were back at the gym. Obviously the gym knew what had happened, and they were quite happy for my daughter and I to just come. They just left us alone. We just went through the workout and we would leave, but just you know, get up every day. I still walk the dogs every single day. I think I took two days off and I was still walking the dogs because sometimes there's comfort in routine. And I definitely now look back at that and think, I am so glad that I did that. I probably don't remember what I was thinking or what I was doing, but I got up and went through the motions, and I think my recovery myself was far easier because I put that routine back. And I definitely don't speak for anyone else, because grief is such a monster and everybody has to deal with it just anyway they absolutely can. But for me, routine was key.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: For me.
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Speaker 1: I got up and I moved with exercise, comes in doorphins and probably needed every bit of that in those early days, and I'm so grateful.
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Speaker 2: Did people drop away? Did you find people struggled to acknowledge what had happened?
00:06:48
Speaker 1: No, definitely not. I surround myself with really supportive network of people. You know, I think by the time we get to fifty, we've got rid of the Yeah, you sort of fine tune who you want in your small circle, but they absolutely stood up. That were incredible from the girl's employees, everybody was just so supportive. It's just such an awful thing to go through, but we were really lifted with support by everybody. We were really blessed. I think about that all the time.
00:07:27
Speaker 2: Did you and the girls go and have counseling? That's I think pretty early on, Yeah.
00:07:33
Speaker 1: We did. When Sean passed away, the coroner was pretty much in contact with us regularly. In fact, that were quite good because there's some pretty heavy things that are attached to suicide that you know, a lot of people don't know even down to how they were your death certificate when you pass away is incredibly confronting and things that you know you just wouldn't know about, And in being passed on to the coroner, that was sort of kept us up to date with every step of the way. We were put in touch with a charity organization called stand By, and I called them within a little while. I you know, I wish I had called them straight away because they were incredible, but I didn't know what to say when not. What I realized from calling them is I didn't have to say anything. I just had to make that phone call. And that's really important. If anyone ever needs to contact stand by, you don't need to say anything. That's the brilliance of this organization. They know what to say to you. And within days they had sent two beautiful women out to our home to talk to us. And they just used a language that made sense. You know what. It's not generic what happened, It's really specific, and they could just answer our questions, you know. And when they left it was I really it was the first time I really took breath and thought, you know what, Okay, I can do this and I'm not alone.
00:09:10
Speaker 2: Did they speak to you separately to the girls? No, with the girls, because the loss for a wife is very different the loss for the children. Did they speak to you guys separately.
00:09:21
Speaker 1: Yes, they follow up individually with phone calls. So they early in the early days, they were on phone conversation really regularly with all of us. And then they are really led by you, you know, and they would sort of get a sense and they would suggest, you know, would you like me to call you back in X amount of days or something like that, and I'd say, you know what, I think, you know, how about we touch base in two weeks and then it went to a month, and then it went to three months, and by the time they were ringing up, I would say to them, you know what, I'm actually okay, as okay as you can be, but I'm okay. They were like angels.
00:10:00
Speaker 2: In the beginning that all attached their details to the show notes, so that if anyone who's listening to this, you guys want to reach out to these guys, I'll put all those details in the show notes. When you found Sean, and I'm sure in those first few days after Sean took his own life that would have been on your mind twenty four to seven. Yeah, I had two things going on.
00:10:30
Speaker 1: I had the trauma of what I had to see and do, and I had the trauma of losing my husband. So they're very, very, very different. Yeah, they really are.
00:10:40
Speaker 2: And when did you realize they were two really separate things You had to work through pretty early on?
00:10:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think you know, in the early days, if I'm really honest, it's the flashbacks. That's the hardest thing.
00:10:56
Speaker 2: Oh so you had flashbacks.
00:10:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the hardest thing. So you just keep seeing it over and over and over, and I thought, I really try to be positive. I really get up every day and really count my blessings and try to see the glass half full mentality. I've always been like that, And I remember thinking, I don't know how I'm going to go on the rest of my life feeling this sad. How do people put on that heavy coat every day and just go about their day, you know? And I thought that that was going to be my life for the rest of my life, and it's not. You never forget, obviously. Grief is like a roller coaster, you know. I see something on the news and I relive it, but I relive it in a different way now, not the event of what's happened. I think about the family of you know what I mean, because I'm in those shoes now and I'm in a club that I never asked to be, and I think I'll always think about it. But yeah, I had the right counseling, the language they used and the reasons. At the end of the day. With suicide, you don't get an answer. You never ever get an answer. I'll never know why he did it. I'll never know it was just another ordinary day. Did I think he was suicide or no? Just it was just a normal day, but we have to live with that for the rest of our life, you know. And I could say one thing if if you know, if you're ever talking to people, and there's a lot of people that die by suicide, and you know, when you're asking, you know, somebody how their partner passed away, and you know, if they said suicide, please don't ask them how. Yeah, I am just flawed by the amount of people that have asked me.
00:12:46
Speaker 2: How do you say? What of that? But I don't get.
00:12:50
Speaker 1: Offended by it because what I've realized, and you know, I've spoke to the counselor about it and my daughters, and your power with your growth is you now determine how much you say and what you say and what you don't say. But from what I've realized is I think people do it out of embarrassment. It just comes out, you know, so when they don't expect it, because they don't expect it from me. I'm just a normal looking person that looks like I've got it all together and all the rest of it like anyone else. And I'm young, and I think first off, they're surprised when I say that I've lost my husband at my age, and then they'll go, oh, my goodness, that's terrible. How did he die? And I'll oh, and I'm honest, and I say, you know, he took his own life. And they'll say, gee, that's just terrible. Well how did he do it?
00:13:43
Speaker 2: Oh God?
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Speaker 1: And is it sort of like because they just start falling over themselves. I don't know. But how we cope with that is we go home. I talk to my daughters about it and we can almost laugh about it because it's embarrassing for them, not for us, and we'll just say I can't believe people would do that, but they do.
00:14:05
Speaker 2: Because my really good friend Kath who is in a wheelchair and has only been in a wheelchair for the last fourteen fifteen months, and that is something that she gets asked all the time, is why are you in a wheelchair? You know, it's different if it's a little kid that will come up and go, oh, what's that? But as an adult, it's just not kosher toy.
00:14:30
Speaker 1: Or happened.
00:14:31
Speaker 2: There are things we just need to learn to just not put out there. And if someone does say passed away by suicide, don't ask, just don't ask why or how, because that could for some people be totally triggering. Yeah, because everyone has their own journey in working through grief. I look at you and think you and the girls have done an amazing job to be where you are. But I can remember when you know, you said I'm going to the I remember thinking, oh my god, I'd be like lying in the bed in the fetal position. I don't know if I could have done that, get up every day and go to gym, I would have found every excuse me for the son not to go.
00:15:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, like I was told in the early days, that there is no dignity in death and it's up to me. I'm the survivor in the relationship by this stage, you know, I lived with a man that had a secret alcohol addiction for years, and we were conspiring to his secrets. So it was always keeping the secret and keeping you know, the family going and things like that. And then you know, when he took his own life, well then it's out there for the big old world, and my immediate circle knew about his addiction, and then all of a sudden, everybody knew about his addiction. I felt really exposed. But it's time for me to tell my story now. And it's time for me to live my life because I can't change what happened. But I gatherned my own path now and that's what I'm doing. You know. I was anxious about speaking even today because I felt like I was betraying him because he hadn't spoken about his own struggles himself. And then I thought, well, that's absolute nonsense, you know, because alcoholism doesn't just affect the alcoholic, It affects the whole family. And this is my.
00:16:43
Speaker 2: Story, and your story might help someone.
00:16:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:16:47
Speaker 2: Do you think Sean just had enough of fighting it? Do you think it just got to the stage where it was like, just can't do this anymore.
00:16:55
Speaker 1: The monster was too big. I think he had an incident that day where he had a bit of a blow up with somebody that he loves, and he was already carrying all these layers of hate and self loathing, loathing, and he had crosswords on the phone with somebody and he was home alone. I had gone out. It was just a normal day and he just couldn't take what was said. I think it was a really temporary, really temporary situation for Sean. It wasn't a build up. He wasn't suicidal. He wasn't not getting out of bed and thinking how am I going to get through another day or whatever. In Sean's situation on that day, it was more reactive, which is a true trade really because you know that I will always live with that. If I had just gotten home in a half an hour earlier, he wouldn't have been on the phone and it wouldn't have gone to that or you know, and I would have said, you know, piffle, ignore that you've just had a fight, and put it into reason like anyone put into contact when you're already at a honorable state and silly words get said, and for whatever reason, he just snapped. So yeah, I don't I don't think it was a build up. I don't think you and I just but you know, he did have it definitely. Let's recognize the fact that he was still an addict. He was still going down that road and he was hiding it. So he was in denial, and the weight of that is huge, whether you think you're functioning. You know, I hear all these people use the terminology functioning alcoholic, and I still get up and I still go to work, and I feel the only people they're feeling is themselves. There is no such thing as a functioning alcoholic.
00:18:48
Speaker 2: No, I have to agree with you, because there's a tipping point for everybody. Yes, you know. And whether that's because you become so anxious or you can't function because you've got to get to an next drink, something happens sooner or later, you're not functioning.
00:19:02
Speaker 1: No, you often think you are, by you definitely not, and you're not feeling your partner. Yeah, no, but we are guilty when we're talking about the partners of addicts. We have to, you know, own the fact that we fall into fix it mentality where we want to love them well and we don't want to see them fail and we make up excuses.
00:19:28
Speaker 2: For them all let's enable them.
00:19:31
Speaker 1: Yes, it does, but they know how to do it. They know what to say deflect, deflect, or they know your vulnerabilities or because like I said, there was three people in our relationship and the alcoholism was his protected So when I poked the bear, and I wasn't poking him, I was poking the addiction. He went into protection mode.
00:19:57
Speaker 2: The impact of that one decision of his I mean, I had Jem on the podcast quite spoke about having a dad that had mental health issues and she is a nurse, so you know, I do sometimes think nurses tend to look at things, or we look at things medically to maybe buffer the truth. But how as a whole have the girls been like you? I have to say, me watching you and the conversations and Gem sitting here opposite me talking about dealing with mental health in the family, that sort of thing. I loved it because it was like, Okay, it's not a dirty word, but in so many families saying you know, someone's got depression. Like even now, when I say I had major depression, you can see people go, oh, you can say I'm anxious. And I do believe anxiety is overused. But you mentioned the word depression. They think they're going to catch it, absolutely, and they do. They look at you differently. That was very short period in my life that was managed. And yeah, I have to watch it, but I have my life. I laugh, I have a good time. It's such a funny thing. So you mentioned the word addiction and people run for the hills. Yeah, we don't do it well here in Australia.
00:21:16
Speaker 1: Oh we've painted a picture of somebody that's failed you've got an addiction, you're a failure. But there's not a lot of people that are without an addiction of some sort, whether it's eating or gambling, cigarette scambling. And we live in a country here where there's quite a few addictions that have really promoted.
00:21:36
Speaker 2: Drinking is huge. The addiction of marijuana now in the States, because it's all legalized, you cannot walk around New York or Boston without smelling marijuana. I mean, it's not my thing, but it stinks. It's everywhere, and you can't tell me that's not going to have issues.
00:21:55
Speaker 1: A lot of it boils down to, you know, women go for coffee, men go to caves when there's a problem.
00:22:03
Speaker 2: We need to change that. I think so too. It's something I'm so proud of with Jason, who's your brother? Is that with the guys at work, just with what Jason has been through, he will ask them are they okay? Call this number if you need a hand? And I don't think that would have happened years ago. But now having a been through what I've been through, been through what you've been.
00:22:32
Speaker 1: Through, you pick up on the little notes and it.
00:22:36
Speaker 2: Makes me really proud of as a male. He is going out and asking these guys, are they okay? Not pretending it's not happening, not sweeping under the cover, not hard enough mate. Yeah, she'll be right that he is actually going how can I help you? And that makes me unbelievably proud that a guy in his fifties has seen enough and couldn't give a shit what anyone else thinks, but he thinks enough to say, someone, can I help you. Jacob's age group's different. They do talk about it, you know, he's in his early twenties, and that's a whole other demograph of kids. I just love them or hate that age group. I think they've nailed some things, and that's one of them, you know, around mental health. But for an older male, I think there needs to be more of it. The man mentality has got to go. Oh God, Jess, there's no room for that. No one wants it. I don't want a man that's like that, And men need to spend time with men but have conversations or not be afraid to say are you okay? Yeah, and not on a particular day any day. Yes, yeah. When I think about some of the things Jason's been through and the fact that he has enough insight to ask those questions. You know. I had Hannah Clark's best friend, Dave Kramer, came in and he's a big advocate for that as well. You know, if someone's doing something wrong or in a relationship as a male, you know, make them accountable. It's really great to see that there are men out there that are trying to slowly make a difference. Yeah, but then there has to be the honest aspect of it is. You know, if you're hiding something, how do you know?
00:24:22
Speaker 1: I think the more we talk about it, the easier it gets. You know, we're changing the culture talking about these conditions with respect, and that's really important because it's an illness and it can happen to anybody. And if we all started changing our mindset around alcoholism and addiction and started looking at it for what it is, more people might be willing to come out and say, hey, I need help as well.
00:24:56
Speaker 2: But a lot of Australians we'll go home and have one or two glasses of wine every night. Well, that's verging on alcohol is used disorder and I think for women it's too. For men it's more. But let's be honest at home who pause a little glass of wine. Oh, I certainly did not. But it's all okay, and everything is sponsored by alcohol companies and I don't know, like state of origin all that sort stuff. I have such an issue with it. And it is the number one night for domestic violence cause from alcohol in this country.
00:25:31
Speaker 1: My gym Christmas party has got a bar tab. It's part of our culture. It needs to change.
00:25:39
Speaker 2: And you know what's interesting. You know my group of girlfriends that are where I live, and you know you come and go. You're part of that as well. None of them drink, and the few that do only have maybe you know, one or two. It's nothing big. But we do not get invited to any of the Friday afternoon drinks or any of that stuff. And I find it so funny because I don't care if you drink, and I don't want to drink. I don't care you drink, and I'll leave when I need to. We never get invited. Doesn't that say something? Yeah, because we make other people uncomfortable. Why it's because we're making people look at themselves, are we? In the past, I certainly enabled other people to drink. And I'm sure when Sean was at those industry events. I know when I've nursed and gone to nursing events, we all enabled each other's drink, all joke about how hungover we were the next day. Yeah, I don't know. You know, how do we stop those conversations? Did you go Okay, I've had enough and off you go, and not someone have a digger to you. It doesn't happen in America. Yeah, there's a whole page of mocktails on their menus and things like that.
00:26:45
Speaker 1: See, I've always been a non drinker, so it just doesn't bother me. Where you've changed cultures so you're seeing it where. Oh, it's not very good at commenting on that kind of thing, because yeah.
00:26:56
Speaker 2: It was very very hurtful at first. Yeah, I don't care now. I just think you're a wanker if you're going to say something like that. But seriously, and I will stand up. Someone isn't drinking and someone has to go at them. I've heard Jason have a go at people, or he's done it for me when I haven't been strong enough to have a voice myself. It doesn't worry me now, and I'll just tell someone, you know, no, thanks, not interested. And if they go out. I'll just say you're a wanker and walk off. But we've had some instance in the past where we've had friends that have been stopping drinking, and they were big drinkers before that. You know, people were making come, oh, come on, you can have one. It's all right, you'll be fine, but they will stoping drinking for a reason.
00:27:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm certainly not anti drinking by any means, you know, And this is definitely not how I want to come across, because there's a lot of people that you know, are quite happy to have a drink and be happy. But you know, my story with Sean is this is how it unfolded for Shot. Did he think it was going to happen to him? No? Did he think he had a grip on it?
00:28:09
Speaker 2: Yes?
00:28:11
Speaker 1: And then he didn't.
00:28:12
Speaker 2: Yeh sneaks up on you, doesn't it.
00:28:14
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely. You know, he was an educated, responsible human being. And it can just happen to anyone.
00:28:23
Speaker 2: Oh, it can happen to it, Yeah, anybody. I have a friend who fell off the wagon, beautiful, beautiful person. She got into a rehab place here in prison. She's doing so well seven months and she's had a drink and she's realized that she can't have one where she thought she could have a couple and manage it. And what people find is that they have that one, but the escalation each time is faster, and it goes from way to go really fast.
00:28:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's what happened with Sean. He would go into rehab and he'd be good, and he'd be on the wagon, and then as the addiction itself does, it says, well, you could just have one because you're doing so well now and you're good, and that's how you would end up. That's sort of how the demon works. So it's not that they sort of leave rehab and run to the bottle shop. They actually are good for a while, so good that they think that they're fued and the reality is you're alcoholic for life.
00:29:29
Speaker 2: It sucks. I just I can't ever have that one drink. I've made that decision, like, and it sits well with me. Yeah, I don't ever want that escalation to occur. And I like my life without alcohol.
00:29:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:29:46
Speaker 2: And when I look at how much I've saved, it's close to one hundred thousand dollars and that's not even taken into account. French champagnes and ubers and other alcohol on the weekend or cocktails that was just standard. Like when you think about that, what it costs and then what a cost a k secret. Yeah, like, oh my god, I'm so grateful I did what I did and had the support of the people around me. And it does make me sad that Sean didn't feely had that he did with you guys, Yeah, but not professionally. Yeah. What would you say to someone who's listening, who has a loved one they are concerned they have alcohol misuse disorder? What would you say to them as advice to do.
00:30:37
Speaker 1: I always used language that wasn't bear based. I never gave him ultimatives because at the end of the day, the decision is with them. No begging or pleading from their loved ones or manipulation, guilt trips that is just counterproductive. That just does not work, And nor did I ever do that. I always used positive language. It was always based around the support I could offer even when you're ready to do go into rehab or go and get help, and what I can do to facilitate you. So I think they are often at their worst and they feel really lonely and just knowing that you're not going to run can be all they need sometimes, just that cheer squad behind. They know he knew what he needed to do. He knew he was loved and that was powerful, and he spoke but often when he was in the rehabs, he always spoke about how much he loved his family and how much his family loved him. And we were always in conversation with him every day. Everyone spoke to him whenever he was away, and it was always positive and we kept it light. It wasn't heavy, or we didn't have that language of right. So now you've done this, and this is the way it's going to be, because that doesn't work either. You know, we're human. We stumble, we make mistakes, and it's not in the mistakes we make, it's how we get back up and get going again, get back on the wagon, and we don't count and we don't judge. And I never did that, and I think now I am so glad that he knew he was loved and he knew he was supported no matter what was going on with him, he did know that and he felt it every day, and that we weren't judging what was happening, Just like you wouldn't judge somebody that had cancer, because it's the same thing. It's a disease. We were all just focused on being well and getting back up and dusting off and okay, you've had a stumble, right, oh go again.
00:32:59
Speaker 2: I think it's best we leave this here. Yes, this is a subject where people really will message me and ask questions that sort of thing. So what I'm going to do is I will write down some of the organizations that have really helped you and your family, Organizations that help Sean. I'm going to put them in the show notes. Now, guys, there are so many other and I do have quite a few different organizations on the website, beyond Blue Fair Australia, Smart Recovery Australia, there's quite a few different ones, so you can always if you are struggling with alcohol, go online and have a look at those. These were organizations that help Jane at a time of need, and I will put on the show notes. If you are feeling vulnerable, if you are struggling with any mental health concerns, depression, anxiety, you need assistance. I will also add all those details in the show notes so thank you for coming in and talking about something that we need to talk about that's really hard to talk about. But I think the more people that open and talk about it around issues with drinking, which is why I talk about it, but also death by suicide, particularly in men, I think we don't talk about it anywhere near enough, and just the way to support people if they're going through it. And the biggest thing I got from this is your family, your friends, your support network are imperative after something like this happens, and don't pass judgment. Just be there, give love, give support, and ask what you need. I think I asked you so many times, like I'm here whenever you need me, just let me know, can I help you? Because there were times you didn't want to talk to anyone and you didn't want to see me, and you didn't want to hear from me, and you didn't want to talk to me on the phone or Jason or whoever.
00:35:02
Speaker 1: I mean, we did try to pick a ball Jesus that you brought laughter back into our lives.
00:35:08
Speaker 2: We really needed it.
00:35:09
Speaker 1: So I'm really grateful about it. Thank you. Yeah, And don't be frightened to do that for somebody else.
00:35:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, drag him along to something beach, tennis or pig but also don't be afraid to talk about it. I mean, obviously you don't ask someone how, where, when, or why, but ask them what they're comfortable with. What do you want me to do? How can I help you? They'll either say I'd love you to help me or not, and don't take offense if they don't.
00:35:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, we do love to talk about them. He was my husband. He was the love of my life, and I love to talk about him. And it actually feels weird when people don't talk about the elephant in the room, because regardless of the fact that he died, he was still my husband, and he's still the father and my children, and we still like to talk about him, and in fact, we liked any opportunity to talk about him.
00:36:02
Speaker 2: But so you should in honor of him, you know, exactly so important. Jane, thank you. I know today hasn't been the easiest conversation to have. I'm sorry I was the one doing the howling, but very typical of me. I appreciate your and you probably don't perceive it as such. Prod your strength and your courage, but also your desire to make people aware of mental health and men addiction, death by suicide, and it isn't something we can shove under the car, but we have to talk about it and bring awareness to these issues because too many men are dying that way. So thank you. I appreciate this. I'm so I got little Sammy with me, my little therapy dog, and he's been a little gem on Jane's lap, So thank you, thank thanks me, my pleasure. This episode was brought to you by CMR. We're proud to support nurses, doctors and allied health professionals across all of Australia because when you feel supported, whole communities thrive together. We're building happier healthcare and if you want to learn more, check them out at CMR dot com dot YOUU and I just want to say, these guys really care about their medical staff and getting great jobs and employment for them, so definitely check them out. I've been blown away by what they offer and how they look after their teams, so it they're worth checking out as a nurse in particular, but as a healthcare worker. Check them out at CMR dot com dot AU
Speaker 1: Appoche Production.
00:00:10
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, it's Beck here from Tenderness for Nurses. This next two episodes are going to be Part A and Part B. Part A is going to be around addiction and alcohol misuse disorder. There are going to be some hard subjects that we are talking about, including death by suicide. So if you find these subjects triggering, please beware of the content that is going to follow. Part A. We're talking about addiction and Part B is definitely more focus on death by suicide. So we felt that these episodes needed to be shared and these topics need to be discussed. So I want to say enjoy, but I hope this gives you some idea as to what people and families go through. Hi guys, it's Beck Woodbine here from Tenderness for Nurses. I just want to let you all know that this episode has been supported by CMR. So from nurses to doctors to allied health professionals, CMR is here to connect you with opportunities that support the work you love and the life you want to lead. So together we're building a happier healthcare community. Want to learn more, then I will add the link down the bottom, which is CMR dot com dot U, but Cornerstone Medical Recruitment just look at healthcare differently and how they support the healthcare teams that they provide employment for. So definitely check them out, have a chat with them and see if there's something they can do for you. Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity to.
00:01:52
Speaker 1: Be, so I hit it and parked it for Nellie four years. We always have free will, We always get to choose. We are autonomous.
00:02:02
Speaker 2: Welcome to Part B of this tough conversation about addiction. We're going to continue right from where we left last week, so if you haven't heard Part A, please go back and listen to that first. Thank you, And I suppose that then leads us into a Part B of this conversation. Sean had been in and out of rehabs. He'd been overseas in amazing rehabs over there, had done well, would do amazing for a period of time, and then, like you said, you're not sure whatever would trigger him, but he would start drinking in secret again to the point where he decided he couldn't do it. Anymore, and you came home one day to find he had passed at his own hands. That, yeah, I know the impact that had on me, let alone, you guys, because I'd had an issue with alcohol, and that if I hadn't i've had the help or, by the grace of God, never drunk again, that could have been me. And I found that really confronted. Yeah, but I wasn't living it. You were. How have you coped?
00:03:37
Speaker 1: I think I say that, you know, every other day, I say, if it wasn't for my friends, they have been amazing. And you know, I think women, especially women over fifty, need girlfriends absolutely. And you know, my lifelong friend got on the first plane from Darwin and just moved in just to be there, you know, and every he did. You know, you were ringing every day, and you know, my brother's were ringing, my mum and dad and you know, I absolutely had the support. But I think my daughters, you know, while no daughter should ever have to go through that, you know, and they were they'd lost their dad. We found comfort in each other and we were very open and very honest, and we just talked and talked and talked day in day out, Like especially those first two weeks and.
00:04:35
Speaker 2: Very much no room for shame was there.
00:04:37
Speaker 1: No death by suicide has has There's no dignity in it. It's public. You are public conversation. You know, from the second I called TRIPLEO. That day, I was exposed. When the first responder turns up at your door, they just keep coming and they and just keep coming that day, and there was so many people in my house and I'm a very private person in that respect, and and the news filters out, and we've got so many friends, and you know, and then the phone starts ringing, and funny enough, you hear a lot of people say, oh, you know, you're so strong. I could never do this. You know, there's no way I would be able to do this. And the reality is, bag, You've got to get up every day and live. You know. I couldn't just go to bed.
00:05:25
Speaker 2: And just lie there, just lay there.
00:05:27
Speaker 1: I had to get up and I had to keep going, and I did, and movement was very important. Within a few days, we were back at the gym. Obviously the gym knew what had happened, and they were quite happy for my daughter and I to just come. They just left us alone. We just went through the workout and we would leave, but just you know, get up every day. I still walk the dogs every single day. I think I took two days off and I was still walking the dogs because sometimes there's comfort in routine. And I definitely now look back at that and think, I am so glad that I did that. I probably don't remember what I was thinking or what I was doing, but I got up and went through the motions, and I think my recovery myself was far easier because I put that routine back. And I definitely don't speak for anyone else, because grief is such a monster and everybody has to deal with it just anyway they absolutely can. But for me, routine was key.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: For me.
00:06:30
Speaker 1: I got up and I moved with exercise, comes in doorphins and probably needed every bit of that in those early days, and I'm so grateful.
00:06:41
Speaker 2: Did people drop away? Did you find people struggled to acknowledge what had happened?
00:06:48
Speaker 1: No, definitely not. I surround myself with really supportive network of people. You know, I think by the time we get to fifty, we've got rid of the Yeah, you sort of fine tune who you want in your small circle, but they absolutely stood up. That were incredible from the girl's employees, everybody was just so supportive. It's just such an awful thing to go through, but we were really lifted with support by everybody. We were really blessed. I think about that all the time.
00:07:27
Speaker 2: Did you and the girls go and have counseling? That's I think pretty early on, Yeah.
00:07:33
Speaker 1: We did. When Sean passed away, the coroner was pretty much in contact with us regularly. In fact, that were quite good because there's some pretty heavy things that are attached to suicide that you know, a lot of people don't know even down to how they were your death certificate when you pass away is incredibly confronting and things that you know you just wouldn't know about, And in being passed on to the coroner, that was sort of kept us up to date with every step of the way. We were put in touch with a charity organization called stand By, and I called them within a little while. I you know, I wish I had called them straight away because they were incredible, but I didn't know what to say when not. What I realized from calling them is I didn't have to say anything. I just had to make that phone call. And that's really important. If anyone ever needs to contact stand by, you don't need to say anything. That's the brilliance of this organization. They know what to say to you. And within days they had sent two beautiful women out to our home to talk to us. And they just used a language that made sense. You know what. It's not generic what happened, It's really specific, and they could just answer our questions, you know. And when they left it was I really it was the first time I really took breath and thought, you know what, Okay, I can do this and I'm not alone.
00:09:10
Speaker 2: Did they speak to you separately to the girls? No, with the girls, because the loss for a wife is very different the loss for the children. Did they speak to you guys separately.
00:09:21
Speaker 1: Yes, they follow up individually with phone calls. So they early in the early days, they were on phone conversation really regularly with all of us. And then they are really led by you, you know, and they would sort of get a sense and they would suggest, you know, would you like me to call you back in X amount of days or something like that, and I'd say, you know what, I think, you know, how about we touch base in two weeks and then it went to a month, and then it went to three months, and by the time they were ringing up, I would say to them, you know what, I'm actually okay, as okay as you can be, but I'm okay. They were like angels.
00:10:00
Speaker 2: In the beginning that all attached their details to the show notes, so that if anyone who's listening to this, you guys want to reach out to these guys, I'll put all those details in the show notes. When you found Sean, and I'm sure in those first few days after Sean took his own life that would have been on your mind twenty four to seven. Yeah, I had two things going on.
00:10:30
Speaker 1: I had the trauma of what I had to see and do, and I had the trauma of losing my husband. So they're very, very, very different. Yeah, they really are.
00:10:40
Speaker 2: And when did you realize they were two really separate things You had to work through pretty early on?
00:10:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think you know, in the early days, if I'm really honest, it's the flashbacks. That's the hardest thing.
00:10:56
Speaker 2: Oh so you had flashbacks.
00:10:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the hardest thing. So you just keep seeing it over and over and over, and I thought, I really try to be positive. I really get up every day and really count my blessings and try to see the glass half full mentality. I've always been like that, And I remember thinking, I don't know how I'm going to go on the rest of my life feeling this sad. How do people put on that heavy coat every day and just go about their day, you know? And I thought that that was going to be my life for the rest of my life, and it's not. You never forget, obviously. Grief is like a roller coaster, you know. I see something on the news and I relive it, but I relive it in a different way now, not the event of what's happened. I think about the family of you know what I mean, because I'm in those shoes now and I'm in a club that I never asked to be, and I think I'll always think about it. But yeah, I had the right counseling, the language they used and the reasons. At the end of the day. With suicide, you don't get an answer. You never ever get an answer. I'll never know why he did it. I'll never know it was just another ordinary day. Did I think he was suicide or no? Just it was just a normal day, but we have to live with that for the rest of our life, you know. And I could say one thing if if you know, if you're ever talking to people, and there's a lot of people that die by suicide, and you know, when you're asking, you know, somebody how their partner passed away, and you know, if they said suicide, please don't ask them how. Yeah, I am just flawed by the amount of people that have asked me.
00:12:46
Speaker 2: How do you say? What of that? But I don't get.
00:12:50
Speaker 1: Offended by it because what I've realized, and you know, I've spoke to the counselor about it and my daughters, and your power with your growth is you now determine how much you say and what you say and what you don't say. But from what I've realized is I think people do it out of embarrassment. It just comes out, you know, so when they don't expect it, because they don't expect it from me. I'm just a normal looking person that looks like I've got it all together and all the rest of it like anyone else. And I'm young, and I think first off, they're surprised when I say that I've lost my husband at my age, and then they'll go, oh, my goodness, that's terrible. How did he die? And I'll oh, and I'm honest, and I say, you know, he took his own life. And they'll say, gee, that's just terrible. Well how did he do it?
00:13:43
Speaker 2: Oh God?
00:13:44
Speaker 1: And is it sort of like because they just start falling over themselves. I don't know. But how we cope with that is we go home. I talk to my daughters about it and we can almost laugh about it because it's embarrassing for them, not for us, and we'll just say I can't believe people would do that, but they do.
00:14:05
Speaker 2: Because my really good friend Kath who is in a wheelchair and has only been in a wheelchair for the last fourteen fifteen months, and that is something that she gets asked all the time, is why are you in a wheelchair? You know, it's different if it's a little kid that will come up and go, oh, what's that? But as an adult, it's just not kosher toy.
00:14:30
Speaker 1: Or happened.
00:14:31
Speaker 2: There are things we just need to learn to just not put out there. And if someone does say passed away by suicide, don't ask, just don't ask why or how, because that could for some people be totally triggering. Yeah, because everyone has their own journey in working through grief. I look at you and think you and the girls have done an amazing job to be where you are. But I can remember when you know, you said I'm going to the I remember thinking, oh my god, I'd be like lying in the bed in the fetal position. I don't know if I could have done that, get up every day and go to gym, I would have found every excuse me for the son not to go.
00:15:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, like I was told in the early days, that there is no dignity in death and it's up to me. I'm the survivor in the relationship by this stage, you know, I lived with a man that had a secret alcohol addiction for years, and we were conspiring to his secrets. So it was always keeping the secret and keeping you know, the family going and things like that. And then you know, when he took his own life, well then it's out there for the big old world, and my immediate circle knew about his addiction, and then all of a sudden, everybody knew about his addiction. I felt really exposed. But it's time for me to tell my story now. And it's time for me to live my life because I can't change what happened. But I gatherned my own path now and that's what I'm doing. You know. I was anxious about speaking even today because I felt like I was betraying him because he hadn't spoken about his own struggles himself. And then I thought, well, that's absolute nonsense, you know, because alcoholism doesn't just affect the alcoholic, It affects the whole family. And this is my.
00:16:43
Speaker 2: Story, and your story might help someone.
00:16:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:16:47
Speaker 2: Do you think Sean just had enough of fighting it? Do you think it just got to the stage where it was like, just can't do this anymore.
00:16:55
Speaker 1: The monster was too big. I think he had an incident that day where he had a bit of a blow up with somebody that he loves, and he was already carrying all these layers of hate and self loathing, loathing, and he had crosswords on the phone with somebody and he was home alone. I had gone out. It was just a normal day and he just couldn't take what was said. I think it was a really temporary, really temporary situation for Sean. It wasn't a build up. He wasn't suicidal. He wasn't not getting out of bed and thinking how am I going to get through another day or whatever. In Sean's situation on that day, it was more reactive, which is a true trade really because you know that I will always live with that. If I had just gotten home in a half an hour earlier, he wouldn't have been on the phone and it wouldn't have gone to that or you know, and I would have said, you know, piffle, ignore that you've just had a fight, and put it into reason like anyone put into contact when you're already at a honorable state and silly words get said, and for whatever reason, he just snapped. So yeah, I don't I don't think it was a build up. I don't think you and I just but you know, he did have it definitely. Let's recognize the fact that he was still an addict. He was still going down that road and he was hiding it. So he was in denial, and the weight of that is huge, whether you think you're functioning. You know, I hear all these people use the terminology functioning alcoholic, and I still get up and I still go to work, and I feel the only people they're feeling is themselves. There is no such thing as a functioning alcoholic.
00:18:48
Speaker 2: No, I have to agree with you, because there's a tipping point for everybody. Yes, you know. And whether that's because you become so anxious or you can't function because you've got to get to an next drink, something happens sooner or later, you're not functioning.
00:19:02
Speaker 1: No, you often think you are, by you definitely not, and you're not feeling your partner. Yeah, no, but we are guilty when we're talking about the partners of addicts. We have to, you know, own the fact that we fall into fix it mentality where we want to love them well and we don't want to see them fail and we make up excuses.
00:19:28
Speaker 2: For them all let's enable them.
00:19:31
Speaker 1: Yes, it does, but they know how to do it. They know what to say deflect, deflect, or they know your vulnerabilities or because like I said, there was three people in our relationship and the alcoholism was his protected So when I poked the bear, and I wasn't poking him, I was poking the addiction. He went into protection mode.
00:19:57
Speaker 2: The impact of that one decision of his I mean, I had Jem on the podcast quite spoke about having a dad that had mental health issues and she is a nurse, so you know, I do sometimes think nurses tend to look at things, or we look at things medically to maybe buffer the truth. But how as a whole have the girls been like you? I have to say, me watching you and the conversations and Gem sitting here opposite me talking about dealing with mental health in the family, that sort of thing. I loved it because it was like, Okay, it's not a dirty word, but in so many families saying you know, someone's got depression. Like even now, when I say I had major depression, you can see people go, oh, you can say I'm anxious. And I do believe anxiety is overused. But you mentioned the word depression. They think they're going to catch it, absolutely, and they do. They look at you differently. That was very short period in my life that was managed. And yeah, I have to watch it, but I have my life. I laugh, I have a good time. It's such a funny thing. So you mentioned the word addiction and people run for the hills. Yeah, we don't do it well here in Australia.
00:21:16
Speaker 1: Oh we've painted a picture of somebody that's failed you've got an addiction, you're a failure. But there's not a lot of people that are without an addiction of some sort, whether it's eating or gambling, cigarette scambling. And we live in a country here where there's quite a few addictions that have really promoted.
00:21:36
Speaker 2: Drinking is huge. The addiction of marijuana now in the States, because it's all legalized, you cannot walk around New York or Boston without smelling marijuana. I mean, it's not my thing, but it stinks. It's everywhere, and you can't tell me that's not going to have issues.
00:21:55
Speaker 1: A lot of it boils down to, you know, women go for coffee, men go to caves when there's a problem.
00:22:03
Speaker 2: We need to change that. I think so too. It's something I'm so proud of with Jason, who's your brother? Is that with the guys at work, just with what Jason has been through, he will ask them are they okay? Call this number if you need a hand? And I don't think that would have happened years ago. But now having a been through what I've been through, been through what you've been.
00:22:32
Speaker 1: Through, you pick up on the little notes and it.
00:22:36
Speaker 2: Makes me really proud of as a male. He is going out and asking these guys, are they okay? Not pretending it's not happening, not sweeping under the cover, not hard enough mate. Yeah, she'll be right that he is actually going how can I help you? And that makes me unbelievably proud that a guy in his fifties has seen enough and couldn't give a shit what anyone else thinks, but he thinks enough to say, someone, can I help you. Jacob's age group's different. They do talk about it, you know, he's in his early twenties, and that's a whole other demograph of kids. I just love them or hate that age group. I think they've nailed some things, and that's one of them, you know, around mental health. But for an older male, I think there needs to be more of it. The man mentality has got to go. Oh God, Jess, there's no room for that. No one wants it. I don't want a man that's like that, And men need to spend time with men but have conversations or not be afraid to say are you okay? Yeah, and not on a particular day any day. Yes, yeah. When I think about some of the things Jason's been through and the fact that he has enough insight to ask those questions. You know. I had Hannah Clark's best friend, Dave Kramer, came in and he's a big advocate for that as well. You know, if someone's doing something wrong or in a relationship as a male, you know, make them accountable. It's really great to see that there are men out there that are trying to slowly make a difference. Yeah, but then there has to be the honest aspect of it is. You know, if you're hiding something, how do you know?
00:24:22
Speaker 1: I think the more we talk about it, the easier it gets. You know, we're changing the culture talking about these conditions with respect, and that's really important because it's an illness and it can happen to anybody. And if we all started changing our mindset around alcoholism and addiction and started looking at it for what it is, more people might be willing to come out and say, hey, I need help as well.
00:24:56
Speaker 2: But a lot of Australians we'll go home and have one or two glasses of wine every night. Well, that's verging on alcohol is used disorder and I think for women it's too. For men it's more. But let's be honest at home who pause a little glass of wine. Oh, I certainly did not. But it's all okay, and everything is sponsored by alcohol companies and I don't know, like state of origin all that sort stuff. I have such an issue with it. And it is the number one night for domestic violence cause from alcohol in this country.
00:25:31
Speaker 1: My gym Christmas party has got a bar tab. It's part of our culture. It needs to change.
00:25:39
Speaker 2: And you know what's interesting. You know my group of girlfriends that are where I live, and you know you come and go. You're part of that as well. None of them drink, and the few that do only have maybe you know, one or two. It's nothing big. But we do not get invited to any of the Friday afternoon drinks or any of that stuff. And I find it so funny because I don't care if you drink, and I don't want to drink. I don't care you drink, and I'll leave when I need to. We never get invited. Doesn't that say something? Yeah, because we make other people uncomfortable. Why it's because we're making people look at themselves, are we? In the past, I certainly enabled other people to drink. And I'm sure when Sean was at those industry events. I know when I've nursed and gone to nursing events, we all enabled each other's drink, all joke about how hungover we were the next day. Yeah, I don't know. You know, how do we stop those conversations? Did you go Okay, I've had enough and off you go, and not someone have a digger to you. It doesn't happen in America. Yeah, there's a whole page of mocktails on their menus and things like that.
00:26:45
Speaker 1: See, I've always been a non drinker, so it just doesn't bother me. Where you've changed cultures so you're seeing it where. Oh, it's not very good at commenting on that kind of thing, because yeah.
00:26:56
Speaker 2: It was very very hurtful at first. Yeah, I don't care now. I just think you're a wanker if you're going to say something like that. But seriously, and I will stand up. Someone isn't drinking and someone has to go at them. I've heard Jason have a go at people, or he's done it for me when I haven't been strong enough to have a voice myself. It doesn't worry me now, and I'll just tell someone, you know, no, thanks, not interested. And if they go out. I'll just say you're a wanker and walk off. But we've had some instance in the past where we've had friends that have been stopping drinking, and they were big drinkers before that. You know, people were making come, oh, come on, you can have one. It's all right, you'll be fine, but they will stoping drinking for a reason.
00:27:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm certainly not anti drinking by any means, you know, And this is definitely not how I want to come across, because there's a lot of people that you know, are quite happy to have a drink and be happy. But you know, my story with Sean is this is how it unfolded for Shot. Did he think it was going to happen to him? No? Did he think he had a grip on it?
00:28:09
Speaker 2: Yes?
00:28:11
Speaker 1: And then he didn't.
00:28:12
Speaker 2: Yeh sneaks up on you, doesn't it.
00:28:14
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely. You know, he was an educated, responsible human being. And it can just happen to anyone.
00:28:23
Speaker 2: Oh, it can happen to it, Yeah, anybody. I have a friend who fell off the wagon, beautiful, beautiful person. She got into a rehab place here in prison. She's doing so well seven months and she's had a drink and she's realized that she can't have one where she thought she could have a couple and manage it. And what people find is that they have that one, but the escalation each time is faster, and it goes from way to go really fast.
00:28:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's what happened with Sean. He would go into rehab and he'd be good, and he'd be on the wagon, and then as the addiction itself does, it says, well, you could just have one because you're doing so well now and you're good, and that's how you would end up. That's sort of how the demon works. So it's not that they sort of leave rehab and run to the bottle shop. They actually are good for a while, so good that they think that they're fued and the reality is you're alcoholic for life.
00:29:29
Speaker 2: It sucks. I just I can't ever have that one drink. I've made that decision, like, and it sits well with me. Yeah, I don't ever want that escalation to occur. And I like my life without alcohol.
00:29:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:29:46
Speaker 2: And when I look at how much I've saved, it's close to one hundred thousand dollars and that's not even taken into account. French champagnes and ubers and other alcohol on the weekend or cocktails that was just standard. Like when you think about that, what it costs and then what a cost a k secret. Yeah, like, oh my god, I'm so grateful I did what I did and had the support of the people around me. And it does make me sad that Sean didn't feely had that he did with you guys, Yeah, but not professionally. Yeah. What would you say to someone who's listening, who has a loved one they are concerned they have alcohol misuse disorder? What would you say to them as advice to do.
00:30:37
Speaker 1: I always used language that wasn't bear based. I never gave him ultimatives because at the end of the day, the decision is with them. No begging or pleading from their loved ones or manipulation, guilt trips that is just counterproductive. That just does not work, And nor did I ever do that. I always used positive language. It was always based around the support I could offer even when you're ready to do go into rehab or go and get help, and what I can do to facilitate you. So I think they are often at their worst and they feel really lonely and just knowing that you're not going to run can be all they need sometimes, just that cheer squad behind. They know he knew what he needed to do. He knew he was loved and that was powerful, and he spoke but often when he was in the rehabs, he always spoke about how much he loved his family and how much his family loved him. And we were always in conversation with him every day. Everyone spoke to him whenever he was away, and it was always positive and we kept it light. It wasn't heavy, or we didn't have that language of right. So now you've done this, and this is the way it's going to be, because that doesn't work either. You know, we're human. We stumble, we make mistakes, and it's not in the mistakes we make, it's how we get back up and get going again, get back on the wagon, and we don't count and we don't judge. And I never did that, and I think now I am so glad that he knew he was loved and he knew he was supported no matter what was going on with him, he did know that and he felt it every day, and that we weren't judging what was happening, Just like you wouldn't judge somebody that had cancer, because it's the same thing. It's a disease. We were all just focused on being well and getting back up and dusting off and okay, you've had a stumble, right, oh go again.
00:32:59
Speaker 2: I think it's best we leave this here. Yes, this is a subject where people really will message me and ask questions that sort of thing. So what I'm going to do is I will write down some of the organizations that have really helped you and your family, Organizations that help Sean. I'm going to put them in the show notes. Now, guys, there are so many other and I do have quite a few different organizations on the website, beyond Blue Fair Australia, Smart Recovery Australia, there's quite a few different ones, so you can always if you are struggling with alcohol, go online and have a look at those. These were organizations that help Jane at a time of need, and I will put on the show notes. If you are feeling vulnerable, if you are struggling with any mental health concerns, depression, anxiety, you need assistance. I will also add all those details in the show notes so thank you for coming in and talking about something that we need to talk about that's really hard to talk about. But I think the more people that open and talk about it around issues with drinking, which is why I talk about it, but also death by suicide, particularly in men, I think we don't talk about it anywhere near enough, and just the way to support people if they're going through it. And the biggest thing I got from this is your family, your friends, your support network are imperative after something like this happens, and don't pass judgment. Just be there, give love, give support, and ask what you need. I think I asked you so many times, like I'm here whenever you need me, just let me know, can I help you? Because there were times you didn't want to talk to anyone and you didn't want to see me, and you didn't want to hear from me, and you didn't want to talk to me on the phone or Jason or whoever.
00:35:02
Speaker 1: I mean, we did try to pick a ball Jesus that you brought laughter back into our lives.
00:35:08
Speaker 2: We really needed it.
00:35:09
Speaker 1: So I'm really grateful about it. Thank you. Yeah, And don't be frightened to do that for somebody else.
00:35:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, drag him along to something beach, tennis or pig but also don't be afraid to talk about it. I mean, obviously you don't ask someone how, where, when, or why, but ask them what they're comfortable with. What do you want me to do? How can I help you? They'll either say I'd love you to help me or not, and don't take offense if they don't.
00:35:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, we do love to talk about them. He was my husband. He was the love of my life, and I love to talk about him. And it actually feels weird when people don't talk about the elephant in the room, because regardless of the fact that he died, he was still my husband, and he's still the father and my children, and we still like to talk about him, and in fact, we liked any opportunity to talk about him.
00:36:02
Speaker 2: But so you should in honor of him, you know, exactly so important. Jane, thank you. I know today hasn't been the easiest conversation to have. I'm sorry I was the one doing the howling, but very typical of me. I appreciate your and you probably don't perceive it as such. Prod your strength and your courage, but also your desire to make people aware of mental health and men addiction, death by suicide, and it isn't something we can shove under the car, but we have to talk about it and bring awareness to these issues because too many men are dying that way. So thank you. I appreciate this. I'm so I got little Sammy with me, my little therapy dog, and he's been a little gem on Jane's lap, So thank you, thank thanks me, my pleasure. This episode was brought to you by CMR. We're proud to support nurses, doctors and allied health professionals across all of Australia because when you feel supported, whole communities thrive together. We're building happier healthcare and if you want to learn more, check them out at CMR dot com dot YOUU and I just want to say, these guys really care about their medical staff and getting great jobs and employment for them, so definitely check them out. I've been blown away by what they offer and how they look after their teams, so it they're worth checking out as a nurse in particular, but as a healthcare worker. Check them out at CMR dot com dot AU
