WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome, everybody. Welcome back to our second part of my interview
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with Jens, CEO of Link 11.
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Welcome to startupraday.io, your startup podcast from Germany,
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Austria and Switzerland. You go to podcast for startup tech and innovation insights.
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We continue our interview with Jens Philipp Jung, CEO of Link 11,
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a leader in DDoS protection and one of the top 40 under 40 by German periodical
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capital business periodical, I would say.
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If you'd ever wonder how to scale a tech business or navigate tech challenges
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of cybersecurity in today's rapidly evolving market, this episode is for you.
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Let's dive into Jens' entrepreneurial journey, leadership lessons and innovations
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in the cybersecurity space.
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And please keep in mind, this is part two, so you should also listen to part
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one, Part one and part two are supported by our enabler, Hessen Trade & Invest
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and the Enterprise Europe Network.
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You can learn more down here in the show notes. Jens, that's it. Welcome back.
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Hi, Jörn. Very nice to be back.
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Totally my pleasure. We may add for our audience that even for us,
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it's a second recording.
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So we had approximately 24 hours in between, but we keep going with our content
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here. We talked last about cybersecurity and your look on things.
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And now I would like to shift a little bit more on the focus of risk of your company.
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Running a tech company like Link11 must come with a fair share of risk.
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How do you manage and mitigate those risks, both in terms of strategy and cybersecurity?
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Yeah, I mean, especially also in the past 24 hours in the cybersecurity space,
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a lot happened because we basically see every hour many, many attacks,
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being it on our customers, but also on us as a company, because we are also
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some kind of high quality target, to say so.
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And therefore, it's very important to manage the cybersecurity risks and also
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obviously from a business strategic standpoint.
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And as an organization, I mean, we also some kind still of some kind of startup
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culture and some kind of startup atmosphere.
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And while you are very young as an organization, you think very late towards
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risk, right? I mean, you want to build something.
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You are the pioneers and you want to create something.
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So risk is something which come a little bit later as soon as the company gets more mature.
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But what I see as a very positive involvement currently is that more and more
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requirement in terms of risk management systems, especially in the cyberspace.
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So, for example, the ISO framework, what gets more and more famous and more
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and more required from the market.
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And such frameworks help generally all companies, but also obviously us in terms
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of risk management, risk mapping and being it from strategy risk,
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from cyber security risks and business continuity risks.
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We as Sling 11, we not only have the ISO framework, which is like already a
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lot of work and all who went through this knows that.
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A lot of paperwork, which also typically is not loved too much from startups
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and in the startup and scale-up phase.
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We have also done like cybersecurity frameworks like PCI DSS,
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which is a framework introduced by the payment card industry.
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This is where PCI stands for. or another one, SOC 2,
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Which is like a very US-centric framework, but gets more and more important in the European sector.
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And these frameworks help us natively to be more secure and also to risk or
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also to manage our risks much better.
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But even before such frameworks, I mean, we always think about what if scenarios,
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what could happen and create predefined plans and also often fire drills and
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tabletop exercises because we operate a 24-7 network and something could always fail.
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So we always think about, okay, what are redundancy concepts in our infrastructure?
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What are the playbooks and the fire drills that we need to perform if something breaks?
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Actually, I'll be linking the cyber map of Kapersky.
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This gives you a real-time view of attacks and only the time you've been talking.
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I have witnesses here on the live map, more than a quarter of a million attacks.
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So just to give you a sense of that here, could you share an example when you
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took a risk in the business that ultimately paid off,
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meaning less in terms of cybersecurity and more in terms of like strategy projects?
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Yes. I mean, two big risks what we have taken in the past was our add-on acquisitions.
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I mean, S-Link 11, we had a strategy to grow organically, but also at a later
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stage to acquire other companies.
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And these acquisitions of other companies, obviously, you have to add due diligence
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and you try to find out what is great and where are some red flags in this company. But
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Every due diligence report has its limitations and there are always things which are uncertain.
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You don't know how sticky is the customer base after the migration.
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You also only have partially insights into the real production code and various other things.
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You also don't know or you only have partially insights about what is the stickiness
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of the people. Do all the key people stay on board?
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And this is always a kind of big risk because, I mean, making these acquisitions,
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paying many millions for being the owner of the company.
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Therefore, also the amount you invest is a huge amount.
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And this is always kind of risky situation.
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And how to mitigate this is that, well, well-defined plans, what-if scenarios,
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trying to understand the business as good as possible, trying to anticipate
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potential risk, potential issues as good as possible,
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Creating mitigation plans, and also in terms of risk mapping,
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understand, okay, if certain risk actually will be materialized,
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which we all don't hope, right?
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What is the actual impact, right? Is it like from a criticality scale? How serious is it?
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And this helps you then to also get a good feeling
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from making such transactions and at the end also signing the deals because
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you should never sign a deal if you have a bad feeling.
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Mm-hmm. Everybody who does not think that a takeover could be a destroyer of value or a company,
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they should look into some prominent examples like AOL, Time Warner.
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I do believe you, after some time looking into that, you do get a sense of how
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this could take down two companies.
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Talked about companies and takeovers here. What is your approach to competition
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in the tech space? How do you view competitors?
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And what strategies do you employ to stay competitive?
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Tech is generally speaking a wonderful sector. And why is it so wonderful is
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because the biggest advantage in the tech sector is that size doesn't always matter.
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Very often you have small innovative teams which are working like in a speedboat
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approach, which can develop groundbreaking solutions, which will beat all the incumbents.
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So this is also kind of our initial start.
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When we came into the market, I mean, we were a team of basically two people.
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It was Carsten and myself. and with the great skills of Carsten it was able
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to develop a solution, a technical solution and software which was better than
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everything else that was on the market.
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And this is a great advantage because if you think in other industries,
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imagine you want to open a furniture store, right?
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There are so many entries, various entries to get into this market.
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You need a plot, you need many of these maybe distributed network um multiple
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locations it's very very difficult but in tech i mean basically you can you can
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Create a company by yourself and now even easier with
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all the ai tools so generally speaking great advantage is that even it's a fast-moving
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environment you are able as a very small and capable team to develop groundbreaking
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solution and beat the incumbents and if you
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And this is not only right at the end what we say but also actually the feedback
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what we get from our customers and even the analysts.
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So a couple of years ago, for example, we had the benchmark study from Forrester
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Research who has tested various solutions in our area.
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And it turned out that Ling 11 is not only the one with the fastest mitigation
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of Jesus attacks, but only the one with the best wrestlers when it comes to
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overall mitigation capabilities.
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And this was basically a shift with a very small development team compared to our competition.
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I was wondering for our audience, how would you approach competition in your
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industry? Drop your thoughts below and let's discuss.
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Jens, how does Link 11 integrate AI and machine learning into its cybersecurity solution?
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And what impact does it have it on your competitive effectiveness?
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Because I kind of get the feel.
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Sometime down the road, not true, how long it'll take, you'll have AIs looking for vulnerabilities,
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exploiting those vulnerabilities, and on the other side, having AIs trying to
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act as fast as possible to block those vulnerabilities.
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We're not there yet, but we can both see it, right?
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Oh, it's actually in the very near future. we already see like early attacks
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designed and generated by AI and imagine like deep fake for example or phishing
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attacks or calling fake attacks. They are all AI generated.
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So this is like in the very, very new future. On the same side,
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luckily or on the good side, we are already using AI for quite a long time.
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There is a fun story behind that because Carsten who is like an IT informatic
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student and also mathematics student,
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he has a great passion for machine learning, algorithms and AI and all of that.
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Because we had the issue that DDoS attacks could come on every day and night,
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Carsten has developed a solution which is capable to detect and mitigate these attacks by themselves.
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And the reason for it was because he wants to sleep in the night.
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And this was then the fact, and this is quite a funny story, right?
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Because we did not develop machine learning in AI or we did not leverage machine
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learning in AI because it's fancy. It's cool.
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Let's get higher revenues or better multiples and fundraising or fancy marketing materials.
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It was basically because the developer of the solution wants to sleep into the
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night and not get it waked up by DDoS attacks, which he manually need to adjust and mitigate.
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And, yeah, these algorithms are still in place and mitigating thousands of attacks
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every day, fully automatic and protecting.
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I mean, at the beginning, it just protected our infrastructure.
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And now these algorithms are protecting millions of web assets every single day.
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Are you scared that somebody would be able to find a hole in your algorithms?
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Well, I mean, it's always a cat and mouse game. Yeah, game.
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So obviously, if we stop at a certain point to improve and to develop ourselves,
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then it could happen that over the course of time, there will be vulnerabilities and issues.
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But currently we are very optimistic that what we have built has a very high quality standard and
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that there are no kind of big issues which could be
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which could be used and which could impact the quality of the service so i would
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say currently not too big concerned, but also because we work on it every day very hard.
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Yes, I do believe that something you work on it very hard, but something in
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the back of your mind, you can never really dismiss it, right?
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Yeah, I mean, this is also kind of the motivation which pushed you forward.
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When you think about, okay, you have solved the problem ultimately,
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then you usually stop working on it, improving on it. But in cybersecurity,
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it's like an ever-going evolution.
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It's like with learning. You can never learn enough.
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Going a little bit from link 11 into you as an entrepreneur,
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and I was wondering what has been the most rewarding part of your entrepreneurial
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journey so far, and what keeps you going?
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Well, you know, in like part number one of our interview,
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I already said some nice words about my family and this is also exactly the
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reason why I'm that super motivated and work or try to work as hard as I can.
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It's because of my family and there is no greater reward you can get than when
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your wife says Jesus is proud of you or your children looking up to you this
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is really what what motivates me like hell to to give even more and more that's
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more worth than any money on earth
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Exactly now what do you think of there um i was wondering,
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If you would have a time machine, I would be wondering when you can go back
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and give yourself an advice when you start Link 11, what would it be?
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Basically, it's two points what I would give my younger self as an advice.
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And number one is in terms of hiring,
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don't hire too fast in terms of don't make a decision for a hire if you are
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not 100% sure or at least very sure that this is the right hire.
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So really hire the best talent and making there some errors will at the end
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cost you more money, more time,
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more sleepless nights than if you would just wait a bit and waiting for the
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right and perfect match.
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So like putting more emphasis on this.
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And the second point is build a great peer network.
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Especially when I founded the company which
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is like which was 2005 right quite a long
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time ago I mean nowadays you have much more communities
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events you have these
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accelerator programs and so on but this
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this was something didn't exist back in these days and the
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peer network is very very crucial because you
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want to share ideas you want to share perspectives you need a network to get
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some intros so this could be also over the investor potentially um but the best
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advice always build it up by yourself
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right extend your network meet with people um this this helps a lot
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And from personal experience i can say it's it's pretty tough to uh tell somebody
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who's a teacher to really tell them what you're going through, what drives you.
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But another entrepreneur, they usually get it pretty fast, right?
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Yeah, I would say so. Absolutely.
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I mean, it's like always if you – I mean, there are these life coaches which
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say like, well, you actually – the sum out of the five or your character is
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like the mix of the five persons with whom you spend the most time.
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And therefore, if you have a great peer network, it's also very valuable from
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a self-development perspective.
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Now, we've been already talking about Time Machine.
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We've gone back in the question before. Now, let's get a tiny preview into the future.
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What's next for Link11? then what are some upcoming projects and innovations you're excited about?
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Yeah, we have two main work streams. One work stream is about in our product
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innovation and why we are currently covering very successful the DDoS attack
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mitigation, which is, by the way,
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after ransomware, the most second highest attack in terms of amount of attacks
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on global governments and organizations.
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We are also, and beside of the DDoS attacks, we are already providing solutions
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for web application protection being at mitigating SQL injections and database
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attacks and similar stuff.
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But what we now also will introduce or what we are currently working on is more
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towards network-based solutions, zero trust, as I already explained right at the beginning.
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Some solutions in this sector and area combined with the great visibility of
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actually what you have as a threat landscape in your organization.
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Because many companies don't know what vulnerabilities they have.
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And we are developing solutions which give them more insights.
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This is like track number one, our product expansion.
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And track number two are some very nice M&A activities what we have in the pipeline.
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Obviously, I have very hard limitations what I can say here about them because
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they are all under strict NDAs.
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But this is definitely a track where we have nice traction, where we speak with
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a couple of very interested entrepreneurs and companies, great technology,
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great markets, great customers.
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And we are working there on building a pan-European cyber champion.
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And to get this right, you are the acquirer and you talk to potential targets, takeover targets.
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Yes, exactly. And some of them, it's even a kind of a merger situation because
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companies have maybe this similar size.
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But you need to know, I'm a strong believer that together you could achieve more than alone.
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And especially in the European region we have the situation that very often
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we are fighting against American competition.
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And while the Americans are usually very large and the European counterparts
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in many areas are much more tiny.
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This is not only in cyberspace so it's also in various other industries but
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I would say in cyber it's maybe a little bit more extreme.
00:21:15.270 --> 00:21:19.890
Than others. And yeah, therefore, I'm a strong believer in joining forces and
00:21:19.890 --> 00:21:22.350
building a larger group of organizations.
00:21:23.730 --> 00:21:30.250
I know a lot of investors and consultants and also entrepreneurs are listening right now.
00:21:30.410 --> 00:21:36.230
If they would like to pitch their company towards you, can they approach you via LinkedIn?
00:21:36.590 --> 00:21:42.930
Oh, yes, absolutely. That would be amazing. So whenever you have an interesting
00:21:42.930 --> 00:21:48.850
startup opportunity, if you are an investor, PE, please reach out to me.
00:21:50.390 --> 00:21:56.950
We'll be back after a short ad break and talk about you, your company culture,
00:21:56.950 --> 00:21:58.630
and your thought leadership.
00:22:04.155 --> 00:22:08.435
Hey, guys, welcome back. This is the second part of the second interview with
00:22:08.435 --> 00:22:12.715
Jens, CEO from Link11, a DDoS cybersecurity company.
00:22:12.955 --> 00:22:18.915
And I was wondering, Jens, you are a thought lever in tech and cybersecurity space.
00:22:19.115 --> 00:22:24.355
How do you approach public speaking and sharing your expertise with others?
00:22:25.935 --> 00:22:30.015
Luckily, I have some help from my lovely colleagues, to be honest.
00:22:30.015 --> 00:22:35.195
So I have a team member who helps me with organizing everything,
00:22:35.615 --> 00:22:41.815
arranging everything, come up with ideas and even assist with the content.
00:22:43.695 --> 00:22:49.835
So this is a great help because it takes some time, right? I mean, this is the true story.
00:22:50.195 --> 00:22:52.015
It does not come for free.
00:22:52.995 --> 00:22:58.435
You need to invest a lot of time and energy into it. So it's great if you have some helping hands.
00:22:58.715 --> 00:23:03.895
And while we have an internal colleague for that, I also know some of my entrepreneur
00:23:03.895 --> 00:23:07.935
friends have agencies for that, which could also be a great way.
00:23:08.995 --> 00:23:13.035
Generally speaking, I think as a thought leader, it's always great.
00:23:13.215 --> 00:23:18.355
I love it also very much to share knowledge and get connected with others.
00:23:18.515 --> 00:23:26.435
So it's kind of my natural pattern and what I really like. So this is something
00:23:26.435 --> 00:23:31.995
which is quite nice. And I hope I could do it more.
00:23:32.155 --> 00:23:36.135
The biggest constraint is obviously the time commit you need to put into it.
00:23:38.135 --> 00:23:43.115
What is your main channel to distribute your content?
00:23:43.235 --> 00:23:46.295
Is it that people can follow you on LinkedIn? Is it a newsletter?
00:23:46.775 --> 00:23:51.655
Well, I have some LinkedIn followers, but in the past...
00:23:51.655 --> 00:23:58.035
Oh, you have almost 2,500. A thousand, that's not some. I would say that's many.
00:23:58.955 --> 00:24:01.835
Okay. Could always be more, right?
00:24:03.415 --> 00:24:09.155
Now, I mean, in the past, this was more like quite classic on conferences,
00:24:11.235 --> 00:24:17.115
industry conferences, cyber conferences, and similar stuff, including coverage
00:24:17.115 --> 00:24:22.915
in newspapers, large media articles.
00:24:23.475 --> 00:24:29.055
So for example, FAZ and similar stuff. But indeed nowadays gets more shifted
00:24:29.055 --> 00:24:31.035
and focused towards social media channels.
00:24:31.775 --> 00:24:36.955
In my case, I only use LinkedIn because of the time constraints.
00:24:39.066 --> 00:24:44.066
Yeah, that's a nice channel, and I think it's very, very comfortable and could
00:24:44.066 --> 00:24:49.426
only encourage others to also use it and even use it much more than I am.
00:24:50.486 --> 00:24:54.786
Great. Of course, we link your LinkedIn profile if somebody wants to follow
00:24:54.786 --> 00:24:57.246
you or pitch you a startup, as we said before.
00:24:58.206 --> 00:25:01.986
We've been talking about mergers and acquisition, and I was wondering,
00:25:02.206 --> 00:25:12.226
how do you maintain a culture adopting or merging with another entity?
00:25:12.486 --> 00:25:17.586
Do you already have a playbook? Do you have some methodologies you like to do?
00:25:17.706 --> 00:25:23.026
Because I could imagine it's quite difficult, especially if you're both about the same size.
00:25:24.686 --> 00:25:29.146
Yes, absolutely. I mean, size definitely makes it a little bit complex,
00:25:29.146 --> 00:25:31.006
but not only if it's the same size,
00:25:31.146 --> 00:25:35.506
also if the size is very different from each other, because if one company is
00:25:35.506 --> 00:25:41.226
like in a typical startup mood and culture and the other one is already organized,
00:25:41.466 --> 00:25:43.166
that this could also create some tension.
00:25:44.026 --> 00:25:48.086
Another level of complexity comes when we speak about cross-border transactions.
00:25:48.446 --> 00:25:52.386
And, yeah, you need to know our first transaction was in Canada,
00:25:52.526 --> 00:25:55.846
Vancouver, with nine hours time difference. The second one was in Israel,
00:25:56.266 --> 00:25:59.906
which is also not around the corner, obviously closer than Canada.
00:26:00.686 --> 00:26:06.966
But this makes it also, this brings also an additional level of complexity into it.
00:26:07.926 --> 00:26:14.466
To be honest, I think the best way of what we have as a kind of playbook is
00:26:14.466 --> 00:26:20.126
trying to merge also the kind of cultures.
00:26:20.126 --> 00:26:29.206
Because if you try to put over 100% of the culture you have currently and erase
00:26:29.206 --> 00:26:32.746
everything what they have built over many years locally,
00:26:34.066 --> 00:26:37.406
this will end up in no good scenario.
00:26:37.966 --> 00:26:43.646
So what we always try is like keeping nice local culture and combining it with the culture of link 11.
00:26:45.503 --> 00:26:51.603
What we also try to achieve in all of our targets because we know culture is such important
00:26:52.403 --> 00:26:56.183
we always do some kind of culture assessment before we sign the deal
00:26:56.863 --> 00:27:00.203
so looking in i mean there is some old sinned
00:27:00.203 --> 00:27:02.983
research but you can do some desk research to find out what
00:27:02.983 --> 00:27:07.923
is the culture of the company you speak with former employees you speak with
00:27:07.923 --> 00:27:13.463
actual employees and trying to understand okay what is the culture and how how
00:27:13.463 --> 00:27:17.903
we can integrate this culture into ours and also if there are some red flags
00:27:17.903 --> 00:27:20.263
in terms of culture it's very important
00:27:22.023 --> 00:27:26.503
so yeah and and this helps us to understand the culture in advance and then
00:27:26.503 --> 00:27:30.563
having like a nice playbook how to integrate this culture what of their components
00:27:30.563 --> 00:27:31.983
do we want to keep locally and
00:27:31.983 --> 00:27:37.383
what what are the global link 11 culture components we want to roll out um
00:27:37.383 --> 00:27:43.123
I was wondering how How important in terms of evaluating the culture of company
00:27:43.123 --> 00:27:47.043
is for you to look into boards,
00:27:47.303 --> 00:27:53.423
forums, and websites where employees can evaluate their employer?
00:27:55.603 --> 00:28:00.423
Well, unfortunately, very often you only read in these forums the bad things.
00:28:01.063 --> 00:28:06.963
So you need to be quite careful about putting too much emphasis on it.
00:28:06.963 --> 00:28:10.363
And you only read the frustrated comments
00:28:10.363 --> 00:28:13.443
and very rarely like wow that was
00:28:13.443 --> 00:28:16.343
amazing that was amazing so but it's it's
00:28:16.343 --> 00:28:18.963
um it's a puzzle it's a
00:28:18.963 --> 00:28:25.083
piece of the puzzle um which you want to look into it what what we like more
00:28:25.083 --> 00:28:30.103
is really like trying to speak with former employees and to understand hey what
00:28:30.103 --> 00:28:34.223
was the motivation why you have left how was it what was good what was negative
00:28:34.223 --> 00:28:37.643
like in these one-on-one conversations.
00:28:37.663 --> 00:28:42.623
I would say like the the desk research where you look into forums and reviews
00:28:43.874 --> 00:28:46.534
It helps a bit, but not too much.
00:28:47.114 --> 00:28:54.554
I was wondering how you deal with the moments of doubt because every entrepreneur knows that.
00:28:54.734 --> 00:28:57.014
What usually helps are peers.
00:28:57.434 --> 00:29:03.334
What personally helps me is quite some time of silence just thinking about it.
00:29:03.474 --> 00:29:05.674
I was wondering, how do you deal with that?
00:29:06.194 --> 00:29:09.294
I mean, in such moments of doubt,
00:29:09.574 --> 00:29:16.554
your family is always a great source and a great help to give you motivation
00:29:16.554 --> 00:29:22.254
and maybe the necessary push also to make a decision.
00:29:22.774 --> 00:29:29.754
But as I mentioned earlier before, it's important to have a peer network, peer group network.
00:29:30.034 --> 00:29:33.794
And this could also help you very much, right? So if there are other situations,
00:29:34.094 --> 00:29:38.794
reach out to persons who potentially already were in the same situation,
00:29:39.474 --> 00:29:41.554
who have experienced the same situation,
00:29:42.774 --> 00:29:46.054
usually everybody's very happy to share his knowledge.
00:29:46.414 --> 00:29:49.974
And you would be surprised actually how happy some people are to share their
00:29:49.974 --> 00:29:54.574
knowledge and how easy it is to get some good advice from people who had been
00:29:54.574 --> 00:29:59.794
in the same situation and ask about how were you able to solve this situation.
00:30:00.034 --> 00:30:05.534
And yeah, that helps to get good ideas. It has to give you confidence that you
00:30:05.534 --> 00:30:09.534
are on the right way or also open you the eyes that you are on the totally wrong way,
00:30:10.594 --> 00:30:15.914
which is sometimes even more valuable than confirmation that you are on the right way
00:30:17.134 --> 00:30:22.454
We should make an inside joke in German you say if you are on the wrong way you are on the wood way,
00:30:27.514 --> 00:30:32.454
not being on the wood way what do you think are the most important skills and
00:30:32.454 --> 00:30:39.434
quality an entrepreneur needs to succeed a will to an idea what do you want
00:30:39.434 --> 00:30:41.914
to reach and a will to work very hard to get there?
00:30:44.654 --> 00:30:48.314
I mean, you cannot achieve any great outcome alone.
00:30:49.054 --> 00:30:56.034
So people, management, identify talent, motivate talent, and so on.
00:30:57.071 --> 00:31:01.971
This is like one of one of the key skills you need to have at a certain stage
00:31:01.971 --> 00:31:08.431
so and it's quite sad that i mean such things you don't learn in school or at
00:31:08.431 --> 00:31:10.351
least not in the schools i was um
00:31:10.991 --> 00:31:16.351
i mean if you go to an nice a grade business school they will teach you such
00:31:16.351 --> 00:31:21.451
things right and they are super super important and i would say the next next
00:31:21.451 --> 00:31:23.231
super important thing is about
00:31:24.111 --> 00:31:29.831
you need to be able to have some kind of capability to sell your solution.
00:31:30.771 --> 00:31:36.271
Because there's a saying which is like selling solves basically every problem, right?
00:31:36.351 --> 00:31:40.911
If you are able to sell your solution and you could save every problem,
00:31:41.031 --> 00:31:45.091
you have enough revenue, you have enough growth and with enough revenue and
00:31:45.091 --> 00:31:46.771
enough growth, you also get into profitability.
00:31:47.231 --> 00:31:54.571
So this and great things. So my recommendation, yeah, be very good in talent
00:31:54.571 --> 00:32:00.351
management, talent identification and hiring, be very good in selling.
00:32:01.331 --> 00:32:07.031
And yeah, beside all of that, I mean, obviously you need to have sector and product expertise.
00:32:08.311 --> 00:32:11.691
It's difficult to sell something where you have no idea from and it's difficult
00:32:11.691 --> 00:32:16.951
to build a company with something where you have no idea from.
00:32:17.091 --> 00:32:20.871
So for me, for example, be very difficult now to build an insurance startup.
00:32:21.231 --> 00:32:28.191
Even if I know how to find talent and manage them, even if I have some kind
00:32:28.191 --> 00:32:33.391
of talent to sell something, I have zero experience in insurance sector.
00:32:33.631 --> 00:32:38.531
So this would take a long time and I would be definitely the wrong person for
00:32:38.531 --> 00:32:39.711
such a startup ambition.
00:32:41.331 --> 00:32:48.891
I would add one piece. Either you're talented to sell something or you get a co-founder who is.
00:32:49.471 --> 00:32:53.451
Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Which comes back to point number one, right?
00:32:53.651 --> 00:32:57.851
Finding and identifying talent and getting them on board.
00:32:58.836 --> 00:33:03.516
We now went through a lot of questions. Finally, the last one.
00:33:04.116 --> 00:33:09.396
What is the legacy you hope to leave behind with Link11?
00:33:09.476 --> 00:33:12.416
And how do you envision your company's impact?
00:33:13.876 --> 00:33:20.896
I would be very happy if I'm able to inspire some people to found their own
00:33:20.896 --> 00:33:25.136
business or to improve their entrepreneurial life career.
00:33:25.356 --> 00:33:29.676
So this would definitely make me very, very happy. And beside of that,
00:33:29.796 --> 00:33:33.256
I mean, we are on the mission to building a European cyber champion because
00:33:33.256 --> 00:33:40.076
we are very sad that there are so few cyber companies in Europe.
00:33:40.076 --> 00:33:44.536
It's definitely an underrepresented sector compared to other countries.
00:33:44.536 --> 00:33:46.996
And we have great engineering here.
00:33:47.876 --> 00:33:51.876
We have huge demand for such solutions. We are in uncertain times.
00:33:51.876 --> 00:33:56.656
We're facing global geopolitical threats.
00:33:57.776 --> 00:34:02.496
So this is our mission to build this Japan European Cyber Champion.
00:34:02.556 --> 00:34:09.736
I would be super happy if we are able to succeed and to build these organization
00:34:09.736 --> 00:34:16.496
within the next five years and having there at the end some kind of really legacy
00:34:16.496 --> 00:34:21.696
organizations which is able to achieve and be successful over quite a long time.
00:34:21.876 --> 00:34:26.756
I think this would be very nice for a German startup and ecosystem.
00:34:28.636 --> 00:34:34.016
If you, our listener or viewer, enjoyed today's interview with Jens Philipp
00:34:34.016 --> 00:34:38.516
Jung, want more insights from the world of startup tech and entrepreneurship,
00:34:38.816 --> 00:34:40.756
don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe.
00:34:41.096 --> 00:34:42.876
What's one lesson you've learned
00:34:42.876 --> 00:34:46.996
in your entrepreneurial journey and think that is crucial for success?
00:34:47.176 --> 00:34:52.516
Share with us below and we'd love to hear thoughts. Jens, that's it. Thank you very much.
00:34:52.696 --> 00:34:57.556
Best of luck by building a European cybersecurity champion.
00:34:57.756 --> 00:35:02.856
And, of course, I hope I'm on the press distribution list for everything you do in the future, right?
00:35:03.596 --> 00:35:08.096
Thank you very much. And, yes, you will be, absolutely. So looking forward.
00:35:08.916 --> 00:35:10.936
Thank you for your time. It was great being your guest.
00:35:11.596 --> 00:35:13.756
Totally my pleasure. Have a good day. Bye-bye.
00:35:14.096 --> 00:35:14.416
Bye-bye.
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:45.059
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:19.280
00:00:20.267 --> 00:00:25.767
Hello and welcome, everybody. Welcome back to our second part of my interview
00:00:25.767 --> 00:00:28.827
with Jens, CEO of Link 11.
00:00:29.487 --> 00:00:33.707
Welcome to startupraday.io, your startup podcast from Germany,
00:00:33.827 --> 00:00:37.827
Austria and Switzerland. You go to podcast for startup tech and innovation insights.
00:00:38.127 --> 00:00:42.847
We continue our interview with Jens Philipp Jung, CEO of Link 11,
00:00:43.067 --> 00:00:50.247
a leader in DDoS protection and one of the top 40 under 40 by German periodical
00:00:50.247 --> 00:00:52.927
capital business periodical, I would say.
00:00:53.127 --> 00:00:57.147
If you'd ever wonder how to scale a tech business or navigate tech challenges
00:00:57.147 --> 00:01:02.127
of cybersecurity in today's rapidly evolving market, this episode is for you.
00:01:02.407 --> 00:01:06.507
Let's dive into Jens' entrepreneurial journey, leadership lessons and innovations
00:01:06.507 --> 00:01:07.907
in the cybersecurity space.
00:01:08.007 --> 00:01:13.367
And please keep in mind, this is part two, so you should also listen to part
00:01:13.367 --> 00:01:18.447
one, Part one and part two are supported by our enabler, Hessen Trade & Invest
00:01:18.447 --> 00:01:20.187
and the Enterprise Europe Network.
00:01:20.407 --> 00:01:25.827
You can learn more down here in the show notes. Jens, that's it. Welcome back.
00:01:26.647 --> 00:01:28.347
Hi, Jörn. Very nice to be back.
00:01:28.927 --> 00:01:32.927
Totally my pleasure. We may add for our audience that even for us,
00:01:33.047 --> 00:01:33.967
it's a second recording.
00:01:33.967 --> 00:01:40.067
So we had approximately 24 hours in between, but we keep going with our content
00:01:40.067 --> 00:01:47.647
here. We talked last about cybersecurity and your look on things.
00:01:47.807 --> 00:01:53.807
And now I would like to shift a little bit more on the focus of risk of your company.
00:01:54.067 --> 00:01:58.547
Running a tech company like Link11 must come with a fair share of risk.
00:01:58.747 --> 00:02:04.147
How do you manage and mitigate those risks, both in terms of strategy and cybersecurity?
00:02:06.007 --> 00:02:10.587
Yeah, I mean, especially also in the past 24 hours in the cybersecurity space,
00:02:10.607 --> 00:02:16.967
a lot happened because we basically see every hour many, many attacks,
00:02:17.147 --> 00:02:22.067
being it on our customers, but also on us as a company, because we are also
00:02:22.067 --> 00:02:24.267
some kind of high quality target, to say so.
00:02:25.087 --> 00:02:30.747
And therefore, it's very important to manage the cybersecurity risks and also
00:02:30.747 --> 00:02:33.207
obviously from a business strategic standpoint.
00:02:33.207 --> 00:02:40.487
And as an organization, I mean, we also some kind still of some kind of startup
00:02:40.487 --> 00:02:43.287
culture and some kind of startup atmosphere.
00:02:43.287 --> 00:02:49.447
And while you are very young as an organization, you think very late towards
00:02:49.447 --> 00:02:51.347
risk, right? I mean, you want to build something.
00:02:52.107 --> 00:02:56.167
You are the pioneers and you want to create something.
00:02:56.307 --> 00:03:01.487
So risk is something which come a little bit later as soon as the company gets more mature.
00:03:02.507 --> 00:03:08.327
But what I see as a very positive involvement currently is that more and more
00:03:08.327 --> 00:03:13.247
requirement in terms of risk management systems, especially in the cyberspace.
00:03:13.407 --> 00:03:19.387
So, for example, the ISO framework, what gets more and more famous and more
00:03:19.387 --> 00:03:20.747
and more required from the market.
00:03:20.747 --> 00:03:26.767
And such frameworks help generally all companies, but also obviously us in terms
00:03:26.767 --> 00:03:30.227
of risk management, risk mapping and being it from strategy risk,
00:03:30.427 --> 00:03:33.427
from cyber security risks and business continuity risks.
00:03:34.167 --> 00:03:39.687
We as Sling 11, we not only have the ISO framework, which is like already a
00:03:39.687 --> 00:03:42.687
lot of work and all who went through this knows that.
00:03:42.987 --> 00:03:48.747
A lot of paperwork, which also typically is not loved too much from startups
00:03:48.747 --> 00:03:51.347
and in the startup and scale-up phase.
00:03:52.007 --> 00:03:56.727
We have also done like cybersecurity frameworks like PCI DSS,
00:03:56.867 --> 00:04:00.147
which is a framework introduced by the payment card industry.
00:04:00.427 --> 00:04:04.087
This is where PCI stands for. or another one, SOC 2,
00:04:05.026 --> 00:04:10.706
Which is like a very US-centric framework, but gets more and more important in the European sector.
00:04:11.546 --> 00:04:17.886
And these frameworks help us natively to be more secure and also to risk or
00:04:17.886 --> 00:04:20.206
also to manage our risks much better.
00:04:20.346 --> 00:04:26.346
But even before such frameworks, I mean, we always think about what if scenarios,
00:04:27.066 --> 00:04:32.746
what could happen and create predefined plans and also often fire drills and
00:04:32.746 --> 00:04:38.806
tabletop exercises because we operate a 24-7 network and something could always fail.
00:04:39.046 --> 00:04:44.206
So we always think about, okay, what are redundancy concepts in our infrastructure?
00:04:45.166 --> 00:04:50.686
What are the playbooks and the fire drills that we need to perform if something breaks?
00:04:51.946 --> 00:04:56.126
Actually, I'll be linking the cyber map of Kapersky.
00:04:56.486 --> 00:05:01.946
This gives you a real-time view of attacks and only the time you've been talking.
00:05:01.946 --> 00:05:07.646
I have witnesses here on the live map, more than a quarter of a million attacks.
00:05:07.946 --> 00:05:15.506
So just to give you a sense of that here, could you share an example when you
00:05:15.506 --> 00:05:18.606
took a risk in the business that ultimately paid off,
00:05:18.906 --> 00:05:24.506
meaning less in terms of cybersecurity and more in terms of like strategy projects?
00:05:26.026 --> 00:05:33.986
Yes. I mean, two big risks what we have taken in the past was our add-on acquisitions.
00:05:34.206 --> 00:05:38.266
I mean, S-Link 11, we had a strategy to grow organically, but also at a later
00:05:38.266 --> 00:05:39.946
stage to acquire other companies.
00:05:40.266 --> 00:05:45.446
And these acquisitions of other companies, obviously, you have to add due diligence
00:05:45.446 --> 00:05:52.806
and you try to find out what is great and where are some red flags in this company. But
00:05:53.891 --> 00:05:59.811
Every due diligence report has its limitations and there are always things which are uncertain.
00:06:01.051 --> 00:06:04.831
You don't know how sticky is the customer base after the migration.
00:06:05.251 --> 00:06:14.031
You also only have partially insights into the real production code and various other things.
00:06:14.471 --> 00:06:20.691
You also don't know or you only have partially insights about what is the stickiness
00:06:20.691 --> 00:06:24.331
of the people. Do all the key people stay on board?
00:06:25.091 --> 00:06:30.471
And this is always a kind of big risk because, I mean, making these acquisitions,
00:06:30.831 --> 00:06:35.771
paying many millions for being the owner of the company.
00:06:36.411 --> 00:06:40.231
Therefore, also the amount you invest is a huge amount.
00:06:40.431 --> 00:06:44.571
And this is always kind of risky situation.
00:06:44.571 --> 00:06:49.091
And how to mitigate this is that, well, well-defined plans, what-if scenarios,
00:06:49.471 --> 00:06:53.391
trying to understand the business as good as possible, trying to anticipate
00:06:53.391 --> 00:06:57.011
potential risk, potential issues as good as possible,
00:06:59.311 --> 00:07:03.351
Creating mitigation plans, and also in terms of risk mapping,
00:07:03.531 --> 00:07:10.711
understand, okay, if certain risk actually will be materialized,
00:07:10.711 --> 00:07:12.931
which we all don't hope, right?
00:07:13.151 --> 00:07:18.971
What is the actual impact, right? Is it like from a criticality scale? How serious is it?
00:07:19.611 --> 00:07:25.591
And this helps you then to also get a good feeling
00:07:26.611 --> 00:07:32.151
from making such transactions and at the end also signing the deals because
00:07:32.151 --> 00:07:36.431
you should never sign a deal if you have a bad feeling.
00:07:37.462 --> 00:07:47.722
Mm-hmm. Everybody who does not think that a takeover could be a destroyer of value or a company,
00:07:47.902 --> 00:07:52.542
they should look into some prominent examples like AOL, Time Warner.
00:07:53.502 --> 00:07:59.802
I do believe you, after some time looking into that, you do get a sense of how
00:07:59.802 --> 00:08:01.462
this could take down two companies.
00:08:02.362 --> 00:08:06.442
Talked about companies and takeovers here. What is your approach to competition
00:08:06.442 --> 00:08:08.922
in the tech space? How do you view competitors?
00:08:09.242 --> 00:08:12.602
And what strategies do you employ to stay competitive?
00:08:13.642 --> 00:08:18.722
Tech is generally speaking a wonderful sector. And why is it so wonderful is
00:08:18.722 --> 00:08:27.002
because the biggest advantage in the tech sector is that size doesn't always matter.
00:08:27.002 --> 00:08:32.902
Very often you have small innovative teams which are working like in a speedboat
00:08:32.902 --> 00:08:38.622
approach, which can develop groundbreaking solutions, which will beat all the incumbents.
00:08:39.342 --> 00:08:44.542
So this is also kind of our initial start.
00:08:44.722 --> 00:08:48.962
When we came into the market, I mean, we were a team of basically two people.
00:08:49.122 --> 00:08:55.282
It was Carsten and myself. and with the great skills of Carsten it was able
00:08:55.282 --> 00:09:00.082
to develop a solution, a technical solution and software which was better than
00:09:00.082 --> 00:09:02.442
everything else that was on the market.
00:09:03.022 --> 00:09:06.962
And this is a great advantage because if you think in other industries,
00:09:07.462 --> 00:09:11.602
imagine you want to open a furniture store, right?
00:09:12.322 --> 00:09:16.662
There are so many entries, various entries to get into this market.
00:09:16.662 --> 00:09:22.822
You need a plot, you need many of these maybe distributed network um multiple
00:09:22.822 --> 00:09:26.742
locations it's very very difficult but in tech i mean basically you can you can
00:09:27.721 --> 00:09:30.961
Create a company by yourself and now even easier with
00:09:30.961 --> 00:09:37.741
all the ai tools so generally speaking great advantage is that even it's a fast-moving
00:09:37.741 --> 00:09:44.301
environment you are able as a very small and capable team to develop groundbreaking
00:09:44.301 --> 00:09:49.061
solution and beat the incumbents and if you
00:09:50.141 --> 00:09:55.541
And this is not only right at the end what we say but also actually the feedback
00:09:55.541 --> 00:09:57.941
what we get from our customers and even the analysts.
00:09:58.901 --> 00:10:03.941
So a couple of years ago, for example, we had the benchmark study from Forrester
00:10:03.941 --> 00:10:08.401
Research who has tested various solutions in our area.
00:10:08.401 --> 00:10:15.041
And it turned out that Ling 11 is not only the one with the fastest mitigation
00:10:15.041 --> 00:10:19.341
of Jesus attacks, but only the one with the best wrestlers when it comes to
00:10:19.341 --> 00:10:20.681
overall mitigation capabilities.
00:10:21.021 --> 00:10:26.141
And this was basically a shift with a very small development team compared to our competition.
00:10:26.741 --> 00:10:31.561
I was wondering for our audience, how would you approach competition in your
00:10:31.561 --> 00:10:34.721
industry? Drop your thoughts below and let's discuss.
00:10:35.501 --> 00:10:42.121
Jens, how does Link 11 integrate AI and machine learning into its cybersecurity solution?
00:10:42.281 --> 00:10:46.581
And what impact does it have it on your competitive effectiveness?
00:10:46.581 --> 00:10:49.541
Because I kind of get the feel.
00:10:51.569 --> 00:10:59.109
Sometime down the road, not true, how long it'll take, you'll have AIs looking for vulnerabilities,
00:10:59.569 --> 00:11:04.309
exploiting those vulnerabilities, and on the other side, having AIs trying to
00:11:04.309 --> 00:11:07.169
act as fast as possible to block those vulnerabilities.
00:11:07.529 --> 00:11:11.129
We're not there yet, but we can both see it, right?
00:11:11.429 --> 00:11:16.689
Oh, it's actually in the very near future. we already see like early attacks
00:11:16.689 --> 00:11:22.469
designed and generated by AI and imagine like deep fake for example or phishing
00:11:22.469 --> 00:11:28.649
attacks or calling fake attacks. They are all AI generated.
00:11:28.909 --> 00:11:32.929
So this is like in the very, very new future. On the same side,
00:11:33.109 --> 00:11:37.829
luckily or on the good side, we are already using AI for quite a long time.
00:11:38.389 --> 00:11:48.249
There is a fun story behind that because Carsten who is like an IT informatic
00:11:48.249 --> 00:11:50.189
student and also mathematics student,
00:11:50.429 --> 00:11:54.249
he has a great passion for machine learning, algorithms and AI and all of that.
00:11:55.689 --> 00:12:02.389
Because we had the issue that DDoS attacks could come on every day and night,
00:12:03.469 --> 00:12:08.889
Carsten has developed a solution which is capable to detect and mitigate these attacks by themselves.
00:12:09.269 --> 00:12:11.629
And the reason for it was because he wants to sleep in the night.
00:12:12.369 --> 00:12:16.949
And this was then the fact, and this is quite a funny story, right?
00:12:17.009 --> 00:12:21.469
Because we did not develop machine learning in AI or we did not leverage machine
00:12:21.469 --> 00:12:24.669
learning in AI because it's fancy. It's cool.
00:12:24.869 --> 00:12:32.389
Let's get higher revenues or better multiples and fundraising or fancy marketing materials.
00:12:32.549 --> 00:12:37.209
It was basically because the developer of the solution wants to sleep into the
00:12:37.209 --> 00:12:42.689
night and not get it waked up by DDoS attacks, which he manually need to adjust and mitigate.
00:12:43.764 --> 00:12:50.004
And, yeah, these algorithms are still in place and mitigating thousands of attacks
00:12:50.004 --> 00:12:53.264
every day, fully automatic and protecting.
00:12:54.184 --> 00:12:56.304
I mean, at the beginning, it just protected our infrastructure.
00:12:56.544 --> 00:13:00.064
And now these algorithms are protecting millions of web assets every single day.
00:13:00.844 --> 00:13:08.144
Are you scared that somebody would be able to find a hole in your algorithms?
00:13:08.924 --> 00:13:14.784
Well, I mean, it's always a cat and mouse game. Yeah, game.
00:13:15.264 --> 00:13:23.664
So obviously, if we stop at a certain point to improve and to develop ourselves,
00:13:24.704 --> 00:13:31.384
then it could happen that over the course of time, there will be vulnerabilities and issues.
00:13:32.024 --> 00:13:40.344
But currently we are very optimistic that what we have built has a very high quality standard and
00:13:41.524 --> 00:13:47.264
that there are no kind of big issues which could be
00:13:49.324 --> 00:13:55.524
which could be used and which could impact the quality of the service so i would
00:13:55.524 --> 00:14:02.584
say currently not too big concerned, but also because we work on it every day very hard.
00:14:03.764 --> 00:14:09.564
Yes, I do believe that something you work on it very hard, but something in
00:14:09.564 --> 00:14:12.464
the back of your mind, you can never really dismiss it, right?
00:14:13.264 --> 00:14:17.964
Yeah, I mean, this is also kind of the motivation which pushed you forward.
00:14:18.144 --> 00:14:21.044
When you think about, okay, you have solved the problem ultimately,
00:14:21.044 --> 00:14:26.144
then you usually stop working on it, improving on it. But in cybersecurity,
00:14:26.644 --> 00:14:29.204
it's like an ever-going evolution.
00:14:30.744 --> 00:14:33.924
It's like with learning. You can never learn enough.
00:14:36.584 --> 00:14:40.984
Going a little bit from link 11 into you as an entrepreneur,
00:14:41.484 --> 00:14:46.324
and I was wondering what has been the most rewarding part of your entrepreneurial
00:14:46.324 --> 00:14:49.304
journey so far, and what keeps you going?
00:14:49.304 --> 00:14:55.904
Well, you know, in like part number one of our interview,
00:14:56.184 --> 00:15:03.384
I already said some nice words about my family and this is also exactly the
00:15:03.384 --> 00:15:09.524
reason why I'm that super motivated and work or try to work as hard as I can.
00:15:09.744 --> 00:15:16.364
It's because of my family and there is no greater reward you can get than when
00:15:16.364 --> 00:15:21.664
your wife says Jesus is proud of you or your children looking up to you this
00:15:21.664 --> 00:15:26.964
is really what what motivates me like hell to to give even more and more that's
00:15:26.964 --> 00:15:28.844
more worth than any money on earth
00:15:29.804 --> 00:15:33.524
Exactly now what do you think of there um i was wondering,
00:15:34.933 --> 00:15:41.033
If you would have a time machine, I would be wondering when you can go back
00:15:41.033 --> 00:15:46.953
and give yourself an advice when you start Link 11, what would it be?
00:15:47.353 --> 00:15:52.393
Basically, it's two points what I would give my younger self as an advice.
00:15:54.253 --> 00:15:57.893
And number one is in terms of hiring,
00:15:58.273 --> 00:16:07.073
don't hire too fast in terms of don't make a decision for a hire if you are
00:16:07.073 --> 00:16:11.613
not 100% sure or at least very sure that this is the right hire.
00:16:12.873 --> 00:16:18.793
So really hire the best talent and making there some errors will at the end
00:16:18.793 --> 00:16:20.853
cost you more money, more time,
00:16:21.153 --> 00:16:26.813
more sleepless nights than if you would just wait a bit and waiting for the
00:16:26.813 --> 00:16:29.373
right and perfect match.
00:16:30.233 --> 00:16:32.993
So like putting more emphasis on this.
00:16:34.053 --> 00:16:38.853
And the second point is build a great peer network.
00:16:40.573 --> 00:16:43.453
Especially when I founded the company which
00:16:43.453 --> 00:16:46.113
is like which was 2005 right quite a long
00:16:46.113 --> 00:16:49.653
time ago I mean nowadays you have much more communities
00:16:49.653 --> 00:16:52.453
events you have these
00:16:52.453 --> 00:16:55.493
accelerator programs and so on but this
00:16:55.493 --> 00:16:59.613
this was something didn't exist back in these days and the
00:16:59.613 --> 00:17:03.333
peer network is very very crucial because you
00:17:03.333 --> 00:17:07.933
want to share ideas you want to share perspectives you need a network to get
00:17:07.933 --> 00:17:15.333
some intros so this could be also over the investor potentially um but the best
00:17:15.333 --> 00:17:17.513
advice always build it up by yourself
00:17:17.513 --> 00:17:23.273
right extend your network meet with people um this this helps a lot
00:17:24.693 --> 00:17:32.493
And from personal experience i can say it's it's pretty tough to uh tell somebody
00:17:32.493 --> 00:17:38.513
who's a teacher to really tell them what you're going through, what drives you.
00:17:39.313 --> 00:17:42.473
But another entrepreneur, they usually get it pretty fast, right?
00:17:44.273 --> 00:17:47.853
Yeah, I would say so. Absolutely.
00:17:48.173 --> 00:17:54.513
I mean, it's like always if you – I mean, there are these life coaches which
00:17:54.513 --> 00:17:58.313
say like, well, you actually – the sum out of the five or your character is
00:17:58.313 --> 00:18:01.953
like the mix of the five persons with whom you spend the most time.
00:18:01.953 --> 00:18:08.873
And therefore, if you have a great peer network, it's also very valuable from
00:18:08.873 --> 00:18:10.433
a self-development perspective.
00:18:13.873 --> 00:18:17.233
Now, we've been already talking about Time Machine.
00:18:20.173 --> 00:18:26.873
We've gone back in the question before. Now, let's get a tiny preview into the future.
00:18:27.153 --> 00:18:32.453
What's next for Link11? then what are some upcoming projects and innovations you're excited about?
00:18:33.745 --> 00:18:38.425
Yeah, we have two main work streams. One work stream is about in our product
00:18:38.425 --> 00:18:44.365
innovation and why we are currently covering very successful the DDoS attack
00:18:44.365 --> 00:18:46.385
mitigation, which is, by the way,
00:18:46.945 --> 00:18:54.385
after ransomware, the most second highest attack in terms of amount of attacks
00:18:54.385 --> 00:18:56.745
on global governments and organizations.
00:18:58.205 --> 00:19:02.345
We are also, and beside of the DDoS attacks, we are already providing solutions
00:19:02.345 --> 00:19:07.705
for web application protection being at mitigating SQL injections and database
00:19:07.705 --> 00:19:08.885
attacks and similar stuff.
00:19:09.305 --> 00:19:14.645
But what we now also will introduce or what we are currently working on is more
00:19:14.645 --> 00:19:21.545
towards network-based solutions, zero trust, as I already explained right at the beginning.
00:19:21.585 --> 00:19:27.705
Some solutions in this sector and area combined with the great visibility of
00:19:27.705 --> 00:19:31.745
actually what you have as a threat landscape in your organization.
00:19:31.745 --> 00:19:36.365
Because many companies don't know what vulnerabilities they have.
00:19:36.605 --> 00:19:40.545
And we are developing solutions which give them more insights.
00:19:40.765 --> 00:19:43.545
This is like track number one, our product expansion.
00:19:44.185 --> 00:19:51.365
And track number two are some very nice M&A activities what we have in the pipeline.
00:19:52.685 --> 00:19:57.625
Obviously, I have very hard limitations what I can say here about them because
00:19:57.625 --> 00:20:00.465
they are all under strict NDAs.
00:20:01.445 --> 00:20:08.285
But this is definitely a track where we have nice traction, where we speak with
00:20:08.285 --> 00:20:12.665
a couple of very interested entrepreneurs and companies, great technology,
00:20:12.965 --> 00:20:14.485
great markets, great customers.
00:20:15.025 --> 00:20:19.745
And we are working there on building a pan-European cyber champion.
00:20:20.890 --> 00:20:28.150
And to get this right, you are the acquirer and you talk to potential targets, takeover targets.
00:20:28.530 --> 00:20:34.570
Yes, exactly. And some of them, it's even a kind of a merger situation because
00:20:34.570 --> 00:20:37.010
companies have maybe this similar size.
00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:45.270
But you need to know, I'm a strong believer that together you could achieve more than alone.
00:20:46.070 --> 00:20:50.910
And especially in the European region we have the situation that very often
00:20:50.910 --> 00:20:54.390
we are fighting against American competition.
00:20:56.070 --> 00:21:01.510
And while the Americans are usually very large and the European counterparts
00:21:01.510 --> 00:21:04.430
in many areas are much more tiny.
00:21:04.690 --> 00:21:10.870
This is not only in cyberspace so it's also in various other industries but
00:21:10.870 --> 00:21:14.070
I would say in cyber it's maybe a little bit more extreme.
00:21:15.270 --> 00:21:19.890
Than others. And yeah, therefore, I'm a strong believer in joining forces and
00:21:19.890 --> 00:21:22.350
building a larger group of organizations.
00:21:23.730 --> 00:21:30.250
I know a lot of investors and consultants and also entrepreneurs are listening right now.
00:21:30.410 --> 00:21:36.230
If they would like to pitch their company towards you, can they approach you via LinkedIn?
00:21:36.590 --> 00:21:42.930
Oh, yes, absolutely. That would be amazing. So whenever you have an interesting
00:21:42.930 --> 00:21:48.850
startup opportunity, if you are an investor, PE, please reach out to me.
00:21:50.390 --> 00:21:56.950
We'll be back after a short ad break and talk about you, your company culture,
00:21:56.950 --> 00:21:58.630
and your thought leadership.
00:22:04.155 --> 00:22:08.435
Hey, guys, welcome back. This is the second part of the second interview with
00:22:08.435 --> 00:22:12.715
Jens, CEO from Link11, a DDoS cybersecurity company.
00:22:12.955 --> 00:22:18.915
And I was wondering, Jens, you are a thought lever in tech and cybersecurity space.
00:22:19.115 --> 00:22:24.355
How do you approach public speaking and sharing your expertise with others?
00:22:25.935 --> 00:22:30.015
Luckily, I have some help from my lovely colleagues, to be honest.
00:22:30.015 --> 00:22:35.195
So I have a team member who helps me with organizing everything,
00:22:35.615 --> 00:22:41.815
arranging everything, come up with ideas and even assist with the content.
00:22:43.695 --> 00:22:49.835
So this is a great help because it takes some time, right? I mean, this is the true story.
00:22:50.195 --> 00:22:52.015
It does not come for free.
00:22:52.995 --> 00:22:58.435
You need to invest a lot of time and energy into it. So it's great if you have some helping hands.
00:22:58.715 --> 00:23:03.895
And while we have an internal colleague for that, I also know some of my entrepreneur
00:23:03.895 --> 00:23:07.935
friends have agencies for that, which could also be a great way.
00:23:08.995 --> 00:23:13.035
Generally speaking, I think as a thought leader, it's always great.
00:23:13.215 --> 00:23:18.355
I love it also very much to share knowledge and get connected with others.
00:23:18.515 --> 00:23:26.435
So it's kind of my natural pattern and what I really like. So this is something
00:23:26.435 --> 00:23:31.995
which is quite nice. And I hope I could do it more.
00:23:32.155 --> 00:23:36.135
The biggest constraint is obviously the time commit you need to put into it.
00:23:38.135 --> 00:23:43.115
What is your main channel to distribute your content?
00:23:43.235 --> 00:23:46.295
Is it that people can follow you on LinkedIn? Is it a newsletter?
00:23:46.775 --> 00:23:51.655
Well, I have some LinkedIn followers, but in the past...
00:23:51.655 --> 00:23:58.035
Oh, you have almost 2,500. A thousand, that's not some. I would say that's many.
00:23:58.955 --> 00:24:01.835
Okay. Could always be more, right?
00:24:03.415 --> 00:24:09.155
Now, I mean, in the past, this was more like quite classic on conferences,
00:24:11.235 --> 00:24:17.115
industry conferences, cyber conferences, and similar stuff, including coverage
00:24:17.115 --> 00:24:22.915
in newspapers, large media articles.
00:24:23.475 --> 00:24:29.055
So for example, FAZ and similar stuff. But indeed nowadays gets more shifted
00:24:29.055 --> 00:24:31.035
and focused towards social media channels.
00:24:31.775 --> 00:24:36.955
In my case, I only use LinkedIn because of the time constraints.
00:24:39.066 --> 00:24:44.066
Yeah, that's a nice channel, and I think it's very, very comfortable and could
00:24:44.066 --> 00:24:49.426
only encourage others to also use it and even use it much more than I am.
00:24:50.486 --> 00:24:54.786
Great. Of course, we link your LinkedIn profile if somebody wants to follow
00:24:54.786 --> 00:24:57.246
you or pitch you a startup, as we said before.
00:24:58.206 --> 00:25:01.986
We've been talking about mergers and acquisition, and I was wondering,
00:25:02.206 --> 00:25:12.226
how do you maintain a culture adopting or merging with another entity?
00:25:12.486 --> 00:25:17.586
Do you already have a playbook? Do you have some methodologies you like to do?
00:25:17.706 --> 00:25:23.026
Because I could imagine it's quite difficult, especially if you're both about the same size.
00:25:24.686 --> 00:25:29.146
Yes, absolutely. I mean, size definitely makes it a little bit complex,
00:25:29.146 --> 00:25:31.006
but not only if it's the same size,
00:25:31.146 --> 00:25:35.506
also if the size is very different from each other, because if one company is
00:25:35.506 --> 00:25:41.226
like in a typical startup mood and culture and the other one is already organized,
00:25:41.466 --> 00:25:43.166
that this could also create some tension.
00:25:44.026 --> 00:25:48.086
Another level of complexity comes when we speak about cross-border transactions.
00:25:48.446 --> 00:25:52.386
And, yeah, you need to know our first transaction was in Canada,
00:25:52.526 --> 00:25:55.846
Vancouver, with nine hours time difference. The second one was in Israel,
00:25:56.266 --> 00:25:59.906
which is also not around the corner, obviously closer than Canada.
00:26:00.686 --> 00:26:06.966
But this makes it also, this brings also an additional level of complexity into it.
00:26:07.926 --> 00:26:14.466
To be honest, I think the best way of what we have as a kind of playbook is
00:26:14.466 --> 00:26:20.126
trying to merge also the kind of cultures.
00:26:20.126 --> 00:26:29.206
Because if you try to put over 100% of the culture you have currently and erase
00:26:29.206 --> 00:26:32.746
everything what they have built over many years locally,
00:26:34.066 --> 00:26:37.406
this will end up in no good scenario.
00:26:37.966 --> 00:26:43.646
So what we always try is like keeping nice local culture and combining it with the culture of link 11.
00:26:45.503 --> 00:26:51.603
What we also try to achieve in all of our targets because we know culture is such important
00:26:52.403 --> 00:26:56.183
we always do some kind of culture assessment before we sign the deal
00:26:56.863 --> 00:27:00.203
so looking in i mean there is some old sinned
00:27:00.203 --> 00:27:02.983
research but you can do some desk research to find out what
00:27:02.983 --> 00:27:07.923
is the culture of the company you speak with former employees you speak with
00:27:07.923 --> 00:27:13.463
actual employees and trying to understand okay what is the culture and how how
00:27:13.463 --> 00:27:17.903
we can integrate this culture into ours and also if there are some red flags
00:27:17.903 --> 00:27:20.263
in terms of culture it's very important
00:27:22.023 --> 00:27:26.503
so yeah and and this helps us to understand the culture in advance and then
00:27:26.503 --> 00:27:30.563
having like a nice playbook how to integrate this culture what of their components
00:27:30.563 --> 00:27:31.983
do we want to keep locally and
00:27:31.983 --> 00:27:37.383
what what are the global link 11 culture components we want to roll out um
00:27:37.383 --> 00:27:43.123
I was wondering how How important in terms of evaluating the culture of company
00:27:43.123 --> 00:27:47.043
is for you to look into boards,
00:27:47.303 --> 00:27:53.423
forums, and websites where employees can evaluate their employer?
00:27:55.603 --> 00:28:00.423
Well, unfortunately, very often you only read in these forums the bad things.
00:28:01.063 --> 00:28:06.963
So you need to be quite careful about putting too much emphasis on it.
00:28:06.963 --> 00:28:10.363
And you only read the frustrated comments
00:28:10.363 --> 00:28:13.443
and very rarely like wow that was
00:28:13.443 --> 00:28:16.343
amazing that was amazing so but it's it's
00:28:16.343 --> 00:28:18.963
um it's a puzzle it's a
00:28:18.963 --> 00:28:25.083
piece of the puzzle um which you want to look into it what what we like more
00:28:25.083 --> 00:28:30.103
is really like trying to speak with former employees and to understand hey what
00:28:30.103 --> 00:28:34.223
was the motivation why you have left how was it what was good what was negative
00:28:34.223 --> 00:28:37.643
like in these one-on-one conversations.
00:28:37.663 --> 00:28:42.623
I would say like the the desk research where you look into forums and reviews
00:28:43.874 --> 00:28:46.534
It helps a bit, but not too much.
00:28:47.114 --> 00:28:54.554
I was wondering how you deal with the moments of doubt because every entrepreneur knows that.
00:28:54.734 --> 00:28:57.014
What usually helps are peers.
00:28:57.434 --> 00:29:03.334
What personally helps me is quite some time of silence just thinking about it.
00:29:03.474 --> 00:29:05.674
I was wondering, how do you deal with that?
00:29:06.194 --> 00:29:09.294
I mean, in such moments of doubt,
00:29:09.574 --> 00:29:16.554
your family is always a great source and a great help to give you motivation
00:29:16.554 --> 00:29:22.254
and maybe the necessary push also to make a decision.
00:29:22.774 --> 00:29:29.754
But as I mentioned earlier before, it's important to have a peer network, peer group network.
00:29:30.034 --> 00:29:33.794
And this could also help you very much, right? So if there are other situations,
00:29:34.094 --> 00:29:38.794
reach out to persons who potentially already were in the same situation,
00:29:39.474 --> 00:29:41.554
who have experienced the same situation,
00:29:42.774 --> 00:29:46.054
usually everybody's very happy to share his knowledge.
00:29:46.414 --> 00:29:49.974
And you would be surprised actually how happy some people are to share their
00:29:49.974 --> 00:29:54.574
knowledge and how easy it is to get some good advice from people who had been
00:29:54.574 --> 00:29:59.794
in the same situation and ask about how were you able to solve this situation.
00:30:00.034 --> 00:30:05.534
And yeah, that helps to get good ideas. It has to give you confidence that you
00:30:05.534 --> 00:30:09.534
are on the right way or also open you the eyes that you are on the totally wrong way,
00:30:10.594 --> 00:30:15.914
which is sometimes even more valuable than confirmation that you are on the right way
00:30:17.134 --> 00:30:22.454
We should make an inside joke in German you say if you are on the wrong way you are on the wood way,
00:30:27.514 --> 00:30:32.454
not being on the wood way what do you think are the most important skills and
00:30:32.454 --> 00:30:39.434
quality an entrepreneur needs to succeed a will to an idea what do you want
00:30:39.434 --> 00:30:41.914
to reach and a will to work very hard to get there?
00:30:44.654 --> 00:30:48.314
I mean, you cannot achieve any great outcome alone.
00:30:49.054 --> 00:30:56.034
So people, management, identify talent, motivate talent, and so on.
00:30:57.071 --> 00:31:01.971
This is like one of one of the key skills you need to have at a certain stage
00:31:01.971 --> 00:31:08.431
so and it's quite sad that i mean such things you don't learn in school or at
00:31:08.431 --> 00:31:10.351
least not in the schools i was um
00:31:10.991 --> 00:31:16.351
i mean if you go to an nice a grade business school they will teach you such
00:31:16.351 --> 00:31:21.451
things right and they are super super important and i would say the next next
00:31:21.451 --> 00:31:23.231
super important thing is about
00:31:24.111 --> 00:31:29.831
you need to be able to have some kind of capability to sell your solution.
00:31:30.771 --> 00:31:36.271
Because there's a saying which is like selling solves basically every problem, right?
00:31:36.351 --> 00:31:40.911
If you are able to sell your solution and you could save every problem,
00:31:41.031 --> 00:31:45.091
you have enough revenue, you have enough growth and with enough revenue and
00:31:45.091 --> 00:31:46.771
enough growth, you also get into profitability.
00:31:47.231 --> 00:31:54.571
So this and great things. So my recommendation, yeah, be very good in talent
00:31:54.571 --> 00:32:00.351
management, talent identification and hiring, be very good in selling.
00:32:01.331 --> 00:32:07.031
And yeah, beside all of that, I mean, obviously you need to have sector and product expertise.
00:32:08.311 --> 00:32:11.691
It's difficult to sell something where you have no idea from and it's difficult
00:32:11.691 --> 00:32:16.951
to build a company with something where you have no idea from.
00:32:17.091 --> 00:32:20.871
So for me, for example, be very difficult now to build an insurance startup.
00:32:21.231 --> 00:32:28.191
Even if I know how to find talent and manage them, even if I have some kind
00:32:28.191 --> 00:32:33.391
of talent to sell something, I have zero experience in insurance sector.
00:32:33.631 --> 00:32:38.531
So this would take a long time and I would be definitely the wrong person for
00:32:38.531 --> 00:32:39.711
such a startup ambition.
00:32:41.331 --> 00:32:48.891
I would add one piece. Either you're talented to sell something or you get a co-founder who is.
00:32:49.471 --> 00:32:53.451
Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Which comes back to point number one, right?
00:32:53.651 --> 00:32:57.851
Finding and identifying talent and getting them on board.
00:32:58.836 --> 00:33:03.516
We now went through a lot of questions. Finally, the last one.
00:33:04.116 --> 00:33:09.396
What is the legacy you hope to leave behind with Link11?
00:33:09.476 --> 00:33:12.416
And how do you envision your company's impact?
00:33:13.876 --> 00:33:20.896
I would be very happy if I'm able to inspire some people to found their own
00:33:20.896 --> 00:33:25.136
business or to improve their entrepreneurial life career.
00:33:25.356 --> 00:33:29.676
So this would definitely make me very, very happy. And beside of that,
00:33:29.796 --> 00:33:33.256
I mean, we are on the mission to building a European cyber champion because
00:33:33.256 --> 00:33:40.076
we are very sad that there are so few cyber companies in Europe.
00:33:40.076 --> 00:33:44.536
It's definitely an underrepresented sector compared to other countries.
00:33:44.536 --> 00:33:46.996
And we have great engineering here.
00:33:47.876 --> 00:33:51.876
We have huge demand for such solutions. We are in uncertain times.
00:33:51.876 --> 00:33:56.656
We're facing global geopolitical threats.
00:33:57.776 --> 00:34:02.496
So this is our mission to build this Japan European Cyber Champion.
00:34:02.556 --> 00:34:09.736
I would be super happy if we are able to succeed and to build these organization
00:34:09.736 --> 00:34:16.496
within the next five years and having there at the end some kind of really legacy
00:34:16.496 --> 00:34:21.696
organizations which is able to achieve and be successful over quite a long time.
00:34:21.876 --> 00:34:26.756
I think this would be very nice for a German startup and ecosystem.
00:34:28.636 --> 00:34:34.016
If you, our listener or viewer, enjoyed today's interview with Jens Philipp
00:34:34.016 --> 00:34:38.516
Jung, want more insights from the world of startup tech and entrepreneurship,
00:34:38.816 --> 00:34:40.756
don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe.
00:34:41.096 --> 00:34:42.876
What's one lesson you've learned
00:34:42.876 --> 00:34:46.996
in your entrepreneurial journey and think that is crucial for success?
00:34:47.176 --> 00:34:52.516
Share with us below and we'd love to hear thoughts. Jens, that's it. Thank you very much.
00:34:52.696 --> 00:34:57.556
Best of luck by building a European cybersecurity champion.
00:34:57.756 --> 00:35:02.856
And, of course, I hope I'm on the press distribution list for everything you do in the future, right?
00:35:03.596 --> 00:35:08.096
Thank you very much. And, yes, you will be, absolutely. So looking forward.
00:35:08.916 --> 00:35:10.936
Thank you for your time. It was great being your guest.
00:35:11.596 --> 00:35:13.756
Totally my pleasure. Have a good day. Bye-bye.
00:35:14.096 --> 00:35:14.416
Bye-bye.
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:45.059
