Ep. 24 - Talkin' Discipline

WEBVTT
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In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what?
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This is a small group podcast.
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I'm Ben.
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I'm Lacey.
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I'm Taylor.
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I'm Sabrina.
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We got a game of chicken going on here.
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Who's gonna blink?
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I know.
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You're supposed to go next.
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You're beside Lacey.
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You ruined it.
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The clock concept confused me.
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You're still on that?
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No, okay, and that's all for tonight, folks.
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Thanks for joining the small group.
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That's right.
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Good to have you.
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Quick shout outs.
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Getting a lot of love from a lot of places here lately.
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Panama City, Panama City Beach.
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I think we should start a competition.
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Who's gonna win?
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The city or the beach?
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This right now, Panama City is winning.
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Actually, no, it's time.
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Alright, come on, beach folks.
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Step it up.
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So, yep.
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Locked there, and then New Orleans, Louisiana, coming in this week.
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They're picking up.
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They they have they showed up briefly, and then now they're becoming steady.
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Good to have you.
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Yeah.
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And then Orlando, Florida.
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Ashburn, Virginia.
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Oh faithful.
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We love you.
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Somerville, Alabama.
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Hope you like crappie.
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Marietta, Georgia.
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And here we go.
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Drum roll.
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Welcome, Paris, France.
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Wow.
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Bienvenue.
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Decatur, Alabama, Tallahassee, Florida.
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Welcome, Frankfurt.
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So I've been doing Duolingo.
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I've been telling German.
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All I can think of is Ickben Sprickin' Spracken.
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That's my favorite.
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Vilkommen.
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Frankfurt.
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Goodbye.
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Smyrna, Georgia?
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Avena Sain?
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No.
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See?
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Yeah, Avena Saint is.
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Oh man.
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Guten Abin.
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Frankfurt.
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I apologize.
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Smyrna, Georgia.
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Smyrna.
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For Lauderdale and Miami, Florida.
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Man.
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We got a round.
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A real smattering.
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Morgan scorg.
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So we'll see.
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Jingle bell, jingle, yay, jingle good for you.
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Been on the fence about switching because she's all around this one.
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Let's get things going.
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All right.
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Okay.
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So today's icebreaker question is inspired by Esau sold his birthright for a bowl of stew.
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And I feel like there would be a couple of soups that would be worth that.
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And so it.
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So I'm just curious what is your favorite soup or stew?
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I really love soup.
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Like one of my favorite things as we enter into September, because I'm early with making soups, is soup season.
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I love it.
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I am talking that I don't know what I would say.
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Okay, so Taylor's mom has this amazing chili recipe.
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This recipe has probably like over 20 ingredients.
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It's really good.
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It's the best chili I've ever had.
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I know at church we have a chili competition and we haven't entered yet.
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I'm just saying that if we did, oh is it chili Colorado?
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No, it's not Chili Colorado.
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I don't know where she got the recipe.
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I think that she probably started off with one from like a trusted source and then has just added to it throughout the years, but it is so good.
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So I don't, I mean, I think it's my favorite one to make because it just like there's so many ingredients that go into it.
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We package it.
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So we'll get like two very large stockpots, and then we'll make like 40 servings, and then we'll put it into Ziploc bags and freeze it based off of her recommendation.
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They do that as well, and it is really good.
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So you can make chili popsicles.
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That's right.
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I'd go chili Colorado.
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That one's mine.
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You need to make that for the chili cook-off this year.
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Yeah.
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But there's well sur surprise, surprise, there's a lot of chilies.
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Like most of the the recipe is just all these different kinds of chilies and just trying to trying to find them all has been the hardest part.
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Yeah.
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The our church chili cook-off, like I look forward to that every year.
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I'm just like, yes, I'm I'm just someone's gotta knock Bobby Sul Bobby Sullivan off that off the pedestal.
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Podium.
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Podium, yeah.
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Pedestal.
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He has won like what four years now?
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I don't know.
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But I it came close last year, I think.
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But I I did not taste a chili that I did not like.
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So Taylor Witt, what's your favorite soup?
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I have not written an entire thesis, but I have very strong opinions about soups.
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So I'm glad that this question is is being discussed.
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Yes.
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I I think of it in two broad categories.
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I think of soups I again, not a full thesis, but I think of soups as either being hearty and filled with many ingredients or a pure distillation of a flavor or a concept.
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So it's broth of soup.
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So yeah, right.
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I would say like in the in its purest form, soup is literally just bone broth.
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You add a bunch of stuff to it, that's when it becomes complex, right?
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So my favorite type of soup that has a lot of stuff in it easily is ramen.
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Yeah.
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I didn't know we could go ramen.
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Now that's a noodle soup, technically speaking.
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I'm all over that.
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But I love ramen.
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And if we're talking about a soup that's just like the pure distillation of like a flavor, you know, like a tomato bisque or a corn chowder or whatever, I'm going French onion every time.
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If you get me a good French onion soup with some of that cheese kind of like caramelized on top and and a like a good piece of baguette to to throw in that soup.
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Baguette, I am all over it.
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So for me, I'm doing French onion if we're doing a simple soup, and I'm doing ramen if we want to get fancy with it.
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So that's I would I don't know.
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I don't know that I'd fully sell my birthright, but I've had I've I have had some tasty ramen, I will say.
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Yeah, now that ramen's on the table, I'm I'll go ramen too.
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I don't know if I'd sell my birthright for for chili, but I'm not ramen.
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I know.
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I feel like chili is humble, so I don't know that I would sell my birthright either for chili, but it's it's a humble soup, but I love it.
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So good.
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What about what about you, Lacey?
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What's your what's your your birthright stew?
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Sweet tape.
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Yes.
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Uh no, I I just love soup.
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I'm with you, Sabrina.
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I love soup season so much.
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I love uh Lulu taught me how to make turnip green soup.
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That's right.
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I love turnip green soup.
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I love tomato soup and grilled cheese.
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Yes, that is just that that yes, I would sell my birthright for tomato soup and grilled cheese.
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That means at least 30% tomato soup.
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60% Pop Tarts.
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Yeah.
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That's how you make a Gabriella.
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Yes, lots of Pop Tarts, lots of soup, and spaghettios, weirdly.
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Uh but but yeah, I just and I love chili.
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I just I love soup.
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Soup makes like just give me a soup, give me a sandwich.
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I am happy, happy, happy.
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Carabbas makes a really good lintel and sausage soup.
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I don't know if you've had it.
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I like we'll just get that from there.
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It's so good.
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It's pretty spicy too, which I like.
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Oh yes, I know I said my favorite one, but I can talk about soup all day.
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Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say at the risk of this just being a long y'all keep it.
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It's a culinary podcast.
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As long as you throw chili and ramen in there, I'm all open.
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There it is.
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Take it away, Taylor.
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All right, well, segueing from our discussion of soups into the Bible, we've got an interesting portion of scripture on the docket tonight to discuss.
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I'm excited to to do a bit of a a deeper dive into this passage in Hebrews.
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So tonight we're gonna be talking about chapter 12 of Hebrews.
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And I thought that this would just be a good opportunity on the show to do, you know, we've done some kind of broad topics, some surveys.
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Some we've done some exposition and talking about obviously scripture, of course, but this a couple of us came on here just to talk about their vacation.
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That's right.
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But didn't you say that was like the most of our biggest episodes?
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That's when you guys come in here and gave a presentation on your vacation.
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That's right.
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Vacation pictures.
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Anyway, go ahead.
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Oh no, yeah, but uh But tonight, yeah, I'm looking forward to to doing a bit of a of a deep dive.
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So yeah, you know, the the thought process behind behind choosing this this portion of the Bible was really just that a portion of it has been particularly meaningful to me recently, and that I think it does dovetail in a nice way with our previous discussion on the show about holiness.
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I'm excited for it.
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Hebrews intimidates me a little bit.
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A little bit.
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It's well, I mean, in Hebrews in chapter five, it says that I mean, I'm not gonna be able to code it exactly, but something about like do stop drinking milk and instead Oh yeah, yeah, consume like suspense.
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Yeah.
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I I think it's Hebrews maybe romance where he's like, we're not gonna rehash the the the easy stuff.
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Yeah, we're gonna build on that.
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I think it's the same one.
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Yeah, it's it's Hebrews 5 13 for everyone who partakes only of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
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And I I feel like that's such a important verse in Hebrews because Paul is talking to Christians, like disciples, followers of Jesus.
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He's not talking to the masses to try and you know encourage them to start following Jesus.
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He's talking to the people who are who've already committed and saying, like, oh well, I I guess we'll talk a little bit about what he's saying in chapter 12.
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But it's to me, it's dense, and I love it, and it's good and it's very convicting.
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So I'm excited for this.
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Well, along the same lines.
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Chapter 6, verse 1, that was the one I was thinking of.
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Therefore, having the elementary teaching about the uh about the Christ, let us press on to maturity.
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Yeah.
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Maturity.
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Which we're the ones to be talking about this.
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Which is a an example kind of of what's happening too between chapters 10 and 10, 11, and then going into 12, which is you know, it you really can see this and throughout the book of Hebrews, you see this pattern of chapters sort of seemingly ending in a arbitrary way, because really a lot of it does flow.
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And so, like, you know, you were just describing verse 13 and chapter 5, Sabrina, and then a few verses later, right after that chapter ends, the the verse that Ben mentioned is just a perfect segue from chapter 5 into chapter 6, thematically connecting those concepts.
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So, you know, it obviously a lot, you know, we're we're talking about the book of Hebrews, which reads more like a a sermon or or something that might you might hear you know as a piece of preaching than it does a letter to a church such as First Corinthians or Galatians, whatever it may be.
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Well, you mentioned chapter 1 11 is my favorite.
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11 is so informative and there's so much to be taken from that.
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I know we've sp spoken on it quite a bit, but if you ever like, hey, I need to read scripture more, and it's daunting, like don't know where to start, whatever, Hebrews 11 is a pretty good good place to start, and it'll fire you up.
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That is before chapter 12 tears you back down.
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That's kind of what we're doing, like fire tear you down, six build you up.
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Well, I would say, so this might be we're about to get into this, but I I would almost I think it's I think it's possible to read twelve in a way where you get that sense of being fired up too.
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Yeah.
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No, I for sure.
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It in the in the sense that as we'll we'll read in a second, in the sense that it is convicting.
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And in in the way that it's convicting, I think it's possible to turn that conviction into motivation and and motivation, you know, that sense of being fired up to wanna to just dig deep.
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So with that in mind, I thought we could start our discussion and begin kind of kicking off this discussion of Hebrews twelve by in turn reading through the chapter.
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So we'll take turns.
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You can think of this chapter broadly as having four thematically kind of four sections, and the the two central passages of this chapter are longer, but um it has a bit of an introduction, which kind of follows from Hebrews 11 out of that chapter, and then it finishes with this strong kind of exhortation and the strong word at the end.
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So then, if you want to lead us off reading the first part, and then we'll kind of follow in turn.
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Yeah, so Hebrews 12, this first section in my Bible is called the John Maxwell Sr.
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section.
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So therefore, since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us let's rid ourselves of every obstacle and the sin which is which so easily entangles us, and let's run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking only at Jesus, the originator and perfecter of the faith who for the joy set before him endured the cross, despising the shame and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
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For consider for consider him who has endured such hostility by sinners against himself, so that you will will not grow weary and lose heart.
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You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin.
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And you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons.
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My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are punished by him.
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For whom the Lord loves, he disciplines, and he punishes every son whom he accepts.
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It is for discipline that you endure.
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God deals with you as with sons, for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
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But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
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Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them.
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Shall we not much more be subject to the father of spirits and live?
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For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, so that we may share his holiness.
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For the moment all discipline seems not to be pleasant but painful.
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Yet to those who have been trained by it, afterward it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.
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Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is impaired may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.
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Pursue peace with all people, and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
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See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God, that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many become defiled, that there be no sexually immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal.
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For you know that even afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:07.680
For they could not cope with the command, even an animal touches the mountain, it shall be stone.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:37.599
And so terrible was the sight that Moses said, I am terrified and trembling, but you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirit of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:43.279
See to it that you do not refuse him who is speaking.
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:54.160
For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from him who warned us from heaven.
00:19:54.400 --> 00:20:05.119
And his voice shook the earth then, and now he has promised, saying, Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the heavens.
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:18.880
This expression, yet once more, denotes the removing of those which can be shaken as of great created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken remain.
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:35.200
Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let's show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence, and for our God is a consuming fire.
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:38.240
I love it.
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:39.039
Anything to add?
00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:40.000
Everybody good?
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:41.359
We're done.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:42.079
Yeah.
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:42.799
Wow.
00:20:43.680 --> 00:21:06.079
It is really just such a amazing transition that we see here from chapter eleven where you have this sort of Hall of Fame that we've talked about into this chapter where we see God's holiness being just so clearly talked about and yeah.
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.319
Chapter 11, especially how it ends, is key to this first verse.
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:10.799
Yes.
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:12.079
Cloud of witnesses.
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:13.279
What is he talking about?
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:17.440
And I mean he just goes through, like you said, the Hall of Fame of faith.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:40.880
You know, naming all the the individuals from the the old law or the old testament, the old covenant, Moses, Abraham, talking about all the things that they did, and and he wraps it up, and all of these people, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised.
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:50.160
Because God provided something better for us so that apart from us they would not they would not be made made perfect.
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:58.960
And so that's key there to at least understand that I know that you just come in verse twelve, verse one, what does cloud of witnesses mean?
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.440
kind of fills that in.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:06.000
Kind of goes off what you were talking about, how they flow together.
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:07.680
Yeah.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:23.359
And I would say that the portion that you read, Ben, that uh so Hebrews 12, 3, I feel like the part where it says like consider him who has endured such hostility by sinners against himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:37.039
Like exactly what you're talking about, there are examples of martyrs of people who, like you said, did not see the win, I guess the quote unquote win in their lifetimes.
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:44.240
And so like right away it talks about I guess a warning like you will endure suffering.
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.000
You're not alone in this.
00:22:46.319 --> 00:23:01.599
And I don't know something about since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, I've heard this say said like it's not they're not just reminders like they are there with us.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:24.240
And that gives us power in the same way we think about you know our grandparents like if I had a really strong grandmother and I actually have shared this with Taylor when I was first moving to Colorado it was my first time driving that far packing up everything that I had there was fear, uncertainty.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:40.319
Taylor, I mean this is a time for like this is a conversation for another day, but Taylor and I had dated for four months and then we did long distance for a year and then I was deciding to move across the country for this relationship that I felt very strongly about.
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:42.880
But there's still a lot of uncertainty and fear there.
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:54.319
And I guess the backstory is my grandmother was in an abusive relationship and with my grandfather and she moved one night in the middle of the night from Alabama to California.
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:57.920
And so she did that on her own with five children.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:15.359
And so I was talking to my mom one day and I was telling her like you know I'm a little scared and she was reminding me of my grandmother and I remember getting off the phone thinking okay if she could do that by herself under worse circumstances I can do this for like a guy who's amazing.
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:21.680
Or not just I mean it's for myself too no I'm just saying he is amazing.
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:51.599
It wasn't just for himself but it was for me too I wanted to experience a different state but all that to say like that kind of image you know like that image we have of our grandparents who set the stage for us or other ancestors who kind of set the way for us we can see these biblical heroes these great cloud of witnesses they're there with us when we're making these decisions to endure and to be steadfast in our walk with God.
00:24:52.000 --> 00:25:12.079
Well I mean just I've I've mentioned this before and there's a reason why I read the first section is because you know exactly what you're talking about just more on the nose verses one through two are what my grandfather recorded as his favorite verse.
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:12.400
Yeah.
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:15.599
And that's why I've got it labeled in here John Maxwell Sr.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:26.720
section this is his favorite favorite verse and and he was one of the main examples in my life of patriarch in our family and and so it goes exactly what Sabrina's talking about.
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:36.160
And it's so fitting that it's that verse and that not only does he stick with me but his verse just res the verse that he chose just resonates from there.
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:40.960
And I do want to add to that verse two is is so fascinating to me.
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:41.279
Yeah.
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:50.640
Is that looking to looking only at Jesus he endured the cross for joy.
00:25:51.119 --> 00:26:00.720
Which I know we're gonna get into a little more like struggle endurance and and and discipline but that joy he endured the cross for joy.
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:08.960
Not just to like as an obligation or to I this is expected this is God's plan I just gotta follow it through.
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:34.319
But he did it out of we we say love a lot and and I think everybody understands that that he that is the ultimate show of love but to put it in terms like joy like delight he do you know he did that for us because it brings him joy for us to partake in that and to to have that relationship with him.
00:26:34.640 --> 00:27:30.349
There's so much there but I think that's a very important thing to remember as we well and the thing that immediately stands out to me in verses one and two it says let's run with endurance the race that is set before us looking only at Jesus doesn't say look to yourself find the strength within you like it doesn't say it's all on you.
00:27:30.509 --> 00:27:38.909
Yes like you know depend on other people or or not that it says looking only to Jesus.
00:27:39.309 --> 00:27:42.589
We're not looking in the mirror here we're looking at Jesus.
00:27:42.909 --> 00:27:45.069
Which is great because if it's up to me we're in trouble.
00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:45.710
Right.
00:27:45.950 --> 00:27:49.950
So that's why he did it that's why he did it he did it for us.
00:27:50.189 --> 00:27:50.509
Right.
00:27:50.669 --> 00:27:58.589
And I think that's maybe it's not too much of a stretch or step out to say that perhaps that brings him joy when we do that.
00:27:58.750 --> 00:28:05.149
We look to him only serving him relationship with him above anything else.
00:28:05.869 --> 00:28:14.349
And I and I I don't think it just brings him joy is it I think that's a it's a also a maybe a key to us finding joy.
00:28:14.589 --> 00:28:15.549
Yes as well.
00:28:15.869 --> 00:28:46.750
Well I think we find joy you know I I see how you know Christ's life is the in some way the eternal model as we know for the way to live a life in perfect unity with the will of the Father and to live a life that is in perfect consideration of godliness, holiness.
00:28:47.069 --> 00:29:18.189
I mean he I think is showing us with what you're saying what both of you are saying he's showing us that the joy that is found in the cross is is in my mind the joy that he takes in saving and loving his creation and simultaneously being totally aligned with the will of his father in heaven which which also I think gives us joy when we align ourselves with God's will.
00:29:18.669 --> 00:29:32.349
Which seems at times in spite of ourselves it seems to be you know the last thing that we our flesh wants us to do is to is to get right and and align ourselves with God's will.
00:29:32.509 --> 00:29:38.829
Often often unfortunately our wills and and what what God wants for us are are not the same.
00:29:38.990 --> 00:29:58.189
But but yeah I love this opening passage here and I I think one question that I one one lingering question that I had which I wanted to pose to y'all was had to do with the distinction between obstacles and sin.
00:29:59.549 --> 00:30:11.389
I thought that was interesting that there are these two words that appear just from the bad in the first verse ridding ourselves of obstacles and the sin which so easily entangles us.
00:30:11.629 --> 00:30:36.109
So that to me is is an interesting thought is like how do you determine what is sinful and and also on the other hand what is just an obstacle right because certainly we have those things in our lives that are you know maybe not sin explicitly but they're getting in the way of our full surrender and depth with God.
00:30:36.349 --> 00:30:49.309
Yeah and and I I put it another way because I've had this thought too it's it's on my to-do list to to uh dive into here soon is examining does wrong equal sin?
00:30:50.109 --> 00:31:02.829
And I put it in those terms especially like if when we talk today it's like oh that's wrong and you know what we perceive as wrong yeah does that automatically equal a sin?
00:31:03.470 --> 00:31:12.509
And so I think that may be again I haven't this is just kind of a a a working idea that something I want to dive into.
00:31:12.909 --> 00:31:31.710
But you know I think that starts to kind of begin a hierarchy kind of thought process of you know how we like to well you know whether we know it's right or wrong you know all sin is equal, we still in our minds will we'll put a hierarchy to it.
00:31:31.869 --> 00:31:39.869
Well you know me saying this to somebody is not as bad as killing them or you know stealing or something like that.
00:31:40.029 --> 00:31:45.549
But it's all you know when you go down that that rabbit hole it's it's all serious.
00:31:45.789 --> 00:31:52.589
And but I I do I like this thought too as far as if it's an obstacle is it a sin.
00:31:53.069 --> 00:31:59.789
I think the best way when I was trying to think of this question look at Jesus how Jesus was tempted.
00:32:00.349 --> 00:32:07.950
That was an obstacle I think I would call it when you know when he's taken up on the temple and and Satan tempts him.
00:32:08.349 --> 00:32:12.829
That's an obstacle he overcame the obstacle he didn't sin.
00:32:13.230 --> 00:32:19.309
So I would start there as far as how to kind of differentiate those two.
00:32:19.710 --> 00:32:58.829
Could I be really provocative I'm gonna I'm gonna be provocative this is a this is a conversation I I'll I've had with a friend who I won't name but but I think it's interesting that goes off of what you're saying Ben which is this idea of whether or not in the scope of obstacles versus sin whether we can think of other people in our relationships with them being an obstacle to our faith and that's a tough one for me.
00:32:58.990 --> 00:33:24.029
That's one that I think a lot of believers wrestle with and that I also struggle with to know like when do you understand that an individual at least where they're at in their life at the moment that you're in with them may be challenging you or pushing you or moving you away from holiness or away from God.
00:33:24.269 --> 00:33:37.149
That's a tough one is that I I don't think it is I think and I mean I'm no yeah I'm not trying to like you may have a very clear view of it all comes down to the greatest command in the second like it.
00:33:37.309 --> 00:33:53.549
Yeah love God with all your heart your soul your mind your strength and then love your neighbor you start with that first one relationship with God you have to have that you have to establish that relationship with God because that influences and affects the other they're closely entwined.
00:33:53.629 --> 00:33:57.629
You can't love your neighbor and hate God because you're a liar and vice versa.
00:33:57.789 --> 00:34:21.550
Right but you have that relationship with God you grow in that relationship and then you're I think I believe you're able to either pick up on those negative relationships yeah not only maybe pick up on them maybe quicker or even at all but also affect them positively.
00:34:22.030 --> 00:35:03.950
But also be able to discern are you going to be able to affect it positively because here's the thing too to keep in mind if it is a very negative relationship or it's a it's affecting you very negatively yeah you do need to it's a fine line to walk right I don't know this is where I've kind of hit a dead end as far as there's no really clear answer because you want to protect that neighbor that relationship with that neighbor you still want to love that neighbor that's the key part yes and if you cannot be a positive influence when you're with them then maybe separating physically not you know not disengaging from that love.
00:35:04.030 --> 00:35:09.150
You're still praying for them you're still you know all the other things you can do when you're apart from them.
00:35:09.230 --> 00:35:16.269
Yeah but you're maybe even that in that separation you're being the influence that you need to be you're setting the an example.
00:35:16.830 --> 00:35:24.110
Yeah I think it all goes back to what is hindering your relationship with God.
00:35:24.269 --> 00:35:32.590
And so obstacles can certainly do that and sin most definitely will hinder like will hurt your relationship with God.
00:35:32.750 --> 00:35:59.710
And I completely agree with you Ben I think that it's a very fine line to walk and I think that's why in sc in the Bible scripture supports both loving your neighbor being Christ like being sacrificial but then it also says like I was just remembering 2 John 1 9 and 10 as we were talking about this it says anyone who goes too far and does not remain in the teaching of Christ does not have God.
00:35:59.870 --> 00:36:14.750
The one who remains in the teaching has both the Father and the son if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching do not receive him into your house and do not give him a greeting for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.
00:36:14.910 --> 00:36:34.030
And I think that's something to read scripture and also pray about because there you know when I was not following God my one of my best friends was so gentle and loving and not pressuring me and welcoming into her home and did not reject me.
00:36:34.190 --> 00:36:50.190
And I think that is important for us to try and be loving and supportive of both believers and non-believers but then there are also going to be those types of people who are actively trying to to push you and hinder your relationship with God.
00:36:50.510 --> 00:37:02.910
I think that's where this scripture in first or second john one that's where it's saying guard your relate protect your relationship with God and so 2 John 1 10 that's the one you just read.
00:37:03.070 --> 00:37:06.910
Yes and so I think I thought that was Paul because Paul says something similar.
00:37:07.230 --> 00:37:32.990
I think so too actually I think they're in Romans somewhere and and he does he comes about it from two different approaches it's what you're talking about the whole accountability thing that's where I really struggle it's like when to step up and speak out or you know because you still have to grapple with the whole sawdust or the plank in your own eye versus the sawdust in their eye.
00:37:33.230 --> 00:37:45.309
But then Paul man I hope I'm right on this I think it's Romans 10 it's I think it's it's around Romans 10 maybe a five through ten.
00:37:45.870 --> 00:37:52.190
One of those chapters where he talks about you know petty quarrels.
00:37:52.590 --> 00:38:17.390
Thinking of yourself highly or you know thinking of yourself as you know very wise and whatever and and but you're pointing to your neighbor who is doing something from a good conscience they're serving God and from a good conscience it may not be fully correct but and he sa he says something along the lines of like don't don't mess them up.
00:38:17.550 --> 00:38:22.030
Like they're they're they have a good conscience they they're serving God from their standpoint.
00:38:22.190 --> 00:38:49.950
Yeah now that even gets tricky today in our modern ways of thinking of you know objective truth or I'm doing it because you know I I'm doing it my way because it's how I feel called to and if it you know is counter to scripture because all scripture's given for he tells Timothy all scripture's given for repro rebuke and reproof for teaching so and admonishing one another.
00:38:50.110 --> 00:39:21.070
And and so it's like there is a call to that but at the same time it's like first analyze is this worth bringing up is this worth yes creating any kind of uh obstacle yeah are you is what they're doing really an obstacle he he uses the example of food and I'm so sorry I cannot I was in it this week I think it's 10 but he uses the example of food a couple times where where either it's food sacrifice to idols or getting into the whole clean and unclean thing.
00:39:21.230 --> 00:39:23.870
He's a everything given from God is good.
00:39:24.430 --> 00:39:30.030
Start there and and come from it from a loving standpoint is the key to all of this.
00:39:30.190 --> 00:39:30.510
Yes.
00:39:30.990 --> 00:39:40.269
Not coming in from a you're hey you gotta get this right you're going the wrong way this hey I care about you and let's work this out.
00:39:40.430 --> 00:40:17.789
Look I've even got this plank in my eye I'm working on it you know I I will say this real quick I'm so sorry because this happened just this week I a difficult topic spiritually came up and and our preacher Matthew it just just a discussion between he and I and it kind of caught me off guard and I don't do well if I'm not prepared and everything but luckily we have a really good kind of relationship we could talk about things and and be like just honest and whatever and afterwards you know that was before our classes came back afterwards and I told him he's like man I hope I didn't come off the wrong way.
00:40:17.870 --> 00:40:47.789
This is something I'm still navigating myself and he's like hey me too you know in his Matthew way Matthew proposed this it caught me off guard like that's a brilliant idea I don't know why I didn't think about this but he offered he's like how about on this topic we just be let's become conversation part conversation partners or whatever he called it basically accountability partners as far as I because the the subject in particular one of the things is hard is to to know how to be how to approach it from a sensitive standpoint.
00:40:47.950 --> 00:40:59.470
If it you know if it's something that I'm not very familiar with or don't really have a lot of experience in it's hard for me to broach that subject without being sensitive insensitive or something like that.
00:40:59.550 --> 00:41:03.070
And he's like man that's that's my fear too so he's like let's talk about it.
00:41:03.230 --> 00:41:12.430
That way I can speak open and honest and then he can give me some feedback and vice versa as far as hey I don't know if that's going to come out the right way.
00:41:12.750 --> 00:41:23.390
I see what you're saying but I don't so something along those lines that that's what it was it was refreshing and also man why didn't I think of that that's a brilliant idea.
00:41:23.550 --> 00:41:30.990
But that's coming from a place of love and and meeting me where I was and being honest of where he is and let's grow together.
00:41:31.470 --> 00:41:37.070
Sorry I didn't need to get into all that but I think that was a a perfect example of what we're talking about.
00:41:38.670 --> 00:42:45.309
I think that's a great point and thinking about the next section of this chapter kind of moving from that into another really powerful and honestly both challenging and simultaneously hopeful section of this chapter where we talk about discipline and suffering, the trials that we go through in life I think that this this section the section verses four through eleven here really shows that in life we have a I'd call it I I'd even call it a temptation to to see suffering and the trials that we face as being implicitly a bad thing or implicitly something we we we should want to avoid.
00:42:46.269 --> 00:42:58.190
And alongside that I think that there is a a continued theme throughout the book of Hebrews and we see the the focus on faith in this chapter.
00:42:58.269 --> 00:43:42.190
There's this continued theme of holding fast to the faith in spite of what might come your way this chapter starts with running this race and and and being kind of cheered on by this cloud of witnesses and here we see this move into reframing the discipline quote unquote that we experience in the trials and and and tribulations of our life as something that shows that God actually loves us and shows us that we have growth and purpose beyond just constantly being showered with good things if that makes sense.
00:43:42.269 --> 00:43:45.309
And I I think it's a really powerful section.
00:43:45.710 --> 00:44:19.710
Yeah I agree I love this section recently in my life it has come up a few times and I've just been just really grateful thinking about God's discipline our father's discipline to us and how he is refining us and conforming us into his image I love how this section starts off it's actually making me think of a conversation we just had Lacey at your job but so the section starts off with verse four and it says you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood and you're striving against sin.
00:44:19.950 --> 00:44:45.309
And to me it just reads Stop your complaining like you have not shed blood you have not had to endure what Jesus has endured You've not had to endure what the disciples had to endure by getting sawed into or being crucified upside down or just all of the horrible deaths that they had to endure.
00:44:45.550 --> 00:44:47.470
And especially Paul.
00:44:47.630 --> 00:44:47.870
Yeah.
00:44:50.110 --> 00:44:50.670
That's right.
00:44:50.910 --> 00:44:52.030
Humbly, right?
00:44:52.510 --> 00:45:08.269
So I just I love, I love that it like what Taylor's saying that begins the chapter gentle and saying, like look to these leaders in your faith during your struggle, and then by section two, it's stop your complaining.
00:45:08.510 --> 00:45:09.150
I love it.
00:45:09.390 --> 00:45:16.190
But but real quick onto that that point, I think another way of saying it is change your perspective or have some perspective.
00:45:16.350 --> 00:45:22.830
And I think that's going to be a key kind of thing too for this whole chapter when we're talking discipline and struggle.
00:45:22.910 --> 00:45:31.789
It's you know, discipline has almost become a naughty word some in some facets, even in the church.
00:45:32.110 --> 00:45:44.910
You know, yeah, you have people that come from we've talked about before, quote unquote church hurt, church burn, where okay, we don't broach discipline because that that was that negatively impacted me or somebody.
00:45:45.070 --> 00:45:51.710
And so we're gonna move away from the discipline part and more on the love part, which that that's good.
00:45:51.870 --> 00:45:53.630
I think, but all of it is good.
00:45:53.789 --> 00:45:58.830
I think the discipline part is good, and I like how Hebrews 12 presents that discipline.
00:45:58.990 --> 00:46:00.510
It's a change of perspective.
00:46:00.590 --> 00:46:05.710
It's not just here's the rules, and you have to obey the rules.
00:46:05.870 --> 00:46:19.070
Like, you know, I my mind went to circumcision, and you know, when Paul and Peter are are going about, people are teaching you have to be circumcised to be saved.
00:46:19.470 --> 00:46:20.750
Trying to think of a better example.
00:46:20.830 --> 00:46:25.470
I'm sorry, I I hate talking about circumcision, but it's it's it's on the nose.
00:46:25.710 --> 00:46:38.030
It's like, you know, Christ has come, he's died, he's been resurrected, he's ascended, and you still have a sect that is saying, well, you still have to be, you know, just like it says in the old law, you have to be circumcised.
00:46:38.190 --> 00:46:53.870
And Peter and Paul and all of them are saying, Oh, like, you know, you had this new circumcision, or there's a lot to be said about it, but you get into that where it's like people are harping on discipline in that way.
00:46:54.030 --> 00:46:56.269
You have to do this and you have to do that.
00:46:57.230 --> 00:47:04.190
As we're gonna about to see, it's like it's changing your perspective on what discipline is as someone who is being disciplined.
00:47:04.670 --> 00:47:06.030
Exactly what you're talking about.
00:47:06.190 --> 00:47:10.990
You know, think about you think your struggle's bad, change your perspective.
00:47:11.309 --> 00:47:12.750
Go to Guatemala.
00:47:13.070 --> 00:47:13.950
That's right, yeah.
00:47:14.670 --> 00:47:15.230
Serve people.
00:47:15.630 --> 00:47:24.590
One thing that keeps popping up is like, you know, you hear in our generation, our day and time of you know, people are starting to struggle.
00:47:24.830 --> 00:47:28.750
You know, finances are getting tight, every you know, everybody's starting to struggle.
00:47:28.910 --> 00:47:36.190
The best perspective I can have is like, look at how wealthy we are compared to the rest of the world.
00:47:36.430 --> 00:47:43.070
Not to say, oh, I'm better than you, but just like, man, I may feel like I'm struggling, but I still have food in the fridge.
00:47:43.309 --> 00:47:44.030
I'm well off.
00:47:44.269 --> 00:47:46.670
I have power, I have indoor plumbing.
00:47:47.070 --> 00:47:54.430
I I can get water, you know, for and do you know, doing nothing to get it.
00:47:54.510 --> 00:47:56.110
I can just flip a switch and get it.
00:47:56.269 --> 00:48:00.510
So having that perspective is is is game changer.
00:48:00.750 --> 00:48:08.670
Um, I literally saw a reel on Instagram today that said, like, I'm 2026 poor, but I'm 1990s rich.
00:48:10.590 --> 00:48:14.110
Yes, if you think about it, we have so much more.
00:48:14.430 --> 00:48:14.750
Yes.
00:48:15.550 --> 00:48:18.910
So yeah, relativity and inflation about the same thing.
00:48:19.390 --> 00:48:24.990
Yes, but but also okay, Sabrina, back to your point about you know, stop complaining.
00:48:25.230 --> 00:48:27.870
We are so quick to complain about everything.
00:48:29.230 --> 00:48:33.309
Yes, we we we listen to girls she's talking about me, guys.
00:48:33.550 --> 00:48:34.670
Do not talk about her.
00:48:34.910 --> 00:48:48.030
Uh we we are so quick to complain, but I I heard um I heard a speaker once about how you know we're so we're it we're so quick to if God loved me, he wouldn't let this happen.
00:48:48.269 --> 00:48:52.030
Or if God loved me, then I wouldn't be struggling financially or whatever.
00:48:52.269 --> 00:48:53.870
The cross was enough.
00:48:54.830 --> 00:49:05.870
Like if God did literally nothing else for us except send his son to save us, that was enough.
00:49:06.030 --> 00:49:06.590
Absolutely.
00:49:06.750 --> 00:49:19.710
And so, so we we and I'm talking to me, we have got to let go of that sense of like entitlement, yeah, basically, where it's like, oh, well, because I'm a believer, I should have it easy.
00:49:19.789 --> 00:49:21.230
It's like, no, yeah.
00:49:21.470 --> 00:49:34.510
Well, okay, I love that point because it makes me think of the verse that we mentioned earlier in chapter five about how we should receive God's word not just as milk, but instead like in a mature way.
00:49:34.750 --> 00:49:39.630
And we were listening to this, the speaker on the way over here.
00:49:40.430 --> 00:49:43.870
We love Father Stephen DeYoung.
00:49:43.950 --> 00:49:47.309
He's a really great Orthodox preacher.
00:49:47.550 --> 00:50:10.750
And he did the sermon, or really not a sermon, but just a conversation on Hebrews 12 and brought up a great perspective of when we think about being a child, whether you had a good father or a father who really struggled, you are you have a perspective of his discipline in a way that is going to look different as an adult.
00:50:10.910 --> 00:50:20.590
And so when you're a child, you you perceive your parents as being unfair, cruel, unkind, not wanting you to have fun.
00:50:20.830 --> 00:50:31.550
But as an adult, hopefully you look back and you realize they were trying to protect me, they were trying to get me ready for being an adult and being a pleasant and good adult.
00:50:31.789 --> 00:50:33.230
I'm still not convinced.
00:50:33.470 --> 00:50:59.630
And if you didn't, if you didn't have a good father, well, then you realize how important it, you know, it is to have discipline because a good parent or a some a parent who is letting their child, you know, stick a fork in an outlet, he literally uses that example, or they're you know, asleep or struggling and don't even know where their child is at.
00:50:59.789 --> 00:51:04.110
We wouldn't look at that parent and say, that's a a loving, a good parent.
00:51:04.190 --> 00:51:05.710
No, that's neglectful.
00:51:05.950 --> 00:51:09.950
And so just to to it's it's an example, right?
00:51:10.110 --> 00:51:14.670
Like God is disciplining us because he loves us.
00:51:14.750 --> 00:51:20.990
And I think that we see discipline as an adult in a different way than we see discipline as a child.
00:51:21.150 --> 00:51:27.710
And it reminds me of chapter five where it's saying like we should be receiving God's word with mature hearts.
00:51:27.870 --> 00:51:30.190
Um yeah.
00:51:30.590 --> 00:51:37.230
I just want to say too that you I know you you're speaking specifically to parents.
00:51:39.070 --> 00:51:40.510
We're a child of a parent.
00:51:40.670 --> 00:51:43.309
So like we're all children of some parent.
00:51:43.630 --> 00:51:43.710
Yeah.
00:51:44.030 --> 00:51:44.269
Yeah.
00:51:44.590 --> 00:51:49.309
But but I you know, I'm my mind goes to, you know, like where you mentioned an example.
00:51:49.550 --> 00:52:00.110
We have those parent examples, but some of us have been very blessed to have not only, you know, the parent example, but the grandparent example on top of that.
00:52:00.590 --> 00:52:03.950
And you know, you've mentioned it on already on this episode.
00:52:04.110 --> 00:52:06.990
I've mentioned it in the past or and briefly on this one.
00:52:07.230 --> 00:52:07.870
Yeah.
00:52:08.110 --> 00:52:26.670
I think if anything, just pause a moment and be thankful for those parents, biological, not biological, whatever, those parent parent parental influences that mimic and and have been a gateway to Christ or a gateway to knowing God.
00:52:27.390 --> 00:52:36.990
Even if you don't fully agree with them or or or whatever, any kind of those examples that have opened that door, be be thankful for those.
00:52:37.150 --> 00:52:39.630
It goes back to the cloud of witnesses that we've talked about.
00:52:39.710 --> 00:52:45.789
And I but I just wanted to pause for a second, just uh remind myself and all of us, just let's be thankful for those.
00:52:45.870 --> 00:52:46.910
I I've been so blessed.
00:52:47.070 --> 00:52:53.950
Like I said, my I've had coup two grandfathers who are prime examples who have gone now.
00:52:54.110 --> 00:52:58.750
And but it hasn't le God has not left a void there.
00:52:58.910 --> 00:53:09.470
I've got parents filling that filling that gap uh every day in in ways that I don't see and I don't have to talk to them to know that they're filling that role.
00:53:09.710 --> 00:53:16.190
And I do want to add to an actual like maybe discipline as far as practice goes, like a daily discipline practice.
00:53:16.269 --> 00:53:24.350
So like when I when we're talking about like, you know, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord.
00:53:25.470 --> 00:53:27.070
I I think of it in two terms.
00:53:27.230 --> 00:53:32.030
You have those quick sins that pop up, you know, the reactionary.
00:53:32.430 --> 00:53:35.630
Oh, I got angry and I did this, or I said this.
00:53:36.190 --> 00:53:48.510
Those to me are tend to be now in in this stage of life, the difficult ones because now you there's the regret and there's the I struggle with like I can't do anything about that.
00:53:48.670 --> 00:53:55.710
All I can do is now it's incumbent on me to to learn from that at the is the key discipline here.
00:53:55.870 --> 00:53:57.309
Learning from that.
00:53:57.470 --> 00:53:58.910
What did it what did I do wrong?
00:53:59.070 --> 00:54:00.269
What could I have done better?
00:54:00.430 --> 00:54:04.350
And then just you know, it's that whole putting that into practice.
00:54:04.430 --> 00:54:05.309
I'm gonna fall again.
00:54:05.390 --> 00:54:08.670
And when you fall multiple times in the same way, that gets frustrating.
00:54:08.830 --> 00:54:17.070
So you have that aspect, then you have the other aspect of struggles that just last, and they're just this is going on and going on and going on.
00:54:17.230 --> 00:54:24.190
I'm praying, um, you know, God take this away, help me with this, guide me in this.
00:54:25.390 --> 00:54:35.070
I've when it going through that, I've come to a place of asking this question what is the lesson I need to learn in this?
00:54:35.550 --> 00:54:40.590
It's been less about God fix this, God cure this, whatever.
00:54:40.750 --> 00:54:45.070
It's been more of what what is it I'm I I'm meant to learn?
00:54:45.390 --> 00:54:49.070
And you start to appreciate that thorn in the flesh, like Paul talks about.
00:54:49.230 --> 00:54:51.309
There's strength, my grace is sufficient.
00:54:51.470 --> 00:54:55.230
There's strength, there's power in the in weakness.
00:54:56.030 --> 00:55:28.530
Man, those words just memorize that one verse and just repeat it to yourself, and repeat it to yourself and repeat it to yourself because uh man, it it's gotten me through so much.
00:55:28.610 --> 00:55:37.890
But I think the key question, whether you're dealing with regret and you want to do better, or you're dealing with something, you're in the midst of it, what is the lesson I'm supposed to be learning?
00:55:38.050 --> 00:55:40.370
What is it I need to be taking away from this?
00:55:40.610 --> 00:55:46.130
And it takes your mind away from that struggle and what you know, God, why are you doing this to me?
00:55:46.210 --> 00:55:56.290
Why haven't you done this into a place of God is loving me and He's trying to communicate with me of what I need how I can serve Him better.
00:55:58.769 --> 00:56:00.290
Yeah, I love that then.
00:56:00.690 --> 00:56:19.250
I think that what you're describing to and what this one reason why I love this section of scripture is because it is in some way a tangible example of repentance.
00:56:20.930 --> 00:56:42.769
And what I you know, what like what I guess like what we often think of when we think of repentance is this you know, throwing your hands up and getting on your knees and having this emotional, you know, deep re experience where you're feeling maybe shame or guilt or regret or some emotional overwhelm.
00:56:43.650 --> 00:56:57.250
And sure, moments of repentance can look like that, but really in the truest sense of the word metanoia in the Greek, to change one's perspective and mind.
00:56:58.610 --> 00:57:06.130
And this is why I love this section so much, is because it's calling us to change our mind about suffering.
00:57:07.090 --> 00:57:17.490
It's calling us to repent of the way that we want to see the challenges and ups and downs of life.
00:57:18.370 --> 00:57:39.650
So what you described uh just now, which I thought was really you did just it was it was really well put where you were describing this process by which we say, Hey, actually this thorn that won't go away, this thing that I'm struggling with, this this path that is difficult is teaching me something.
00:57:40.210 --> 00:57:45.810
And the the the teacher is is giving me the opportunity to learn.
00:57:46.370 --> 00:58:14.130
And so what is God calling me to take away, I think is a brilliant mode of repentance, a way to say, I used to think of suffering as, oh mercy me, and I'm just you know the victim, or I used to think of suffering as God has abandoned me and I have no future, or I used to think of suffering as I have to lash out in my pain.
00:58:14.690 --> 00:58:28.050
Whatever you may be doing with your suffering, this section of scripture is saying, hey, no, actually what you're going through, this difficult thing, is meant ultimately for your good.
00:58:28.850 --> 00:58:42.610
And and the Lord, like any good father, is in this process of of disciplining those that he loves because he loves them.
00:58:42.930 --> 00:58:48.690
Because like what Sabrina said, a a parent would not let their kid stick a fork in an outlet.
00:58:48.850 --> 00:58:51.970
You wouldn't let your kid stand outside in the middle of a hurricane.
00:58:52.130 --> 00:58:57.570
Sometimes our ideas are actually not the right ideas for our life, right?
00:58:57.650 --> 00:58:58.370
It turns out.
00:58:58.530 --> 00:59:00.930
So I thought I thought that that was really.
00:59:23.570 --> 00:59:30.210
Because off that idea that you hear often, God doesn't give you more than you can you're you're able to bear.
00:59:31.570 --> 00:59:39.010
And if it I think that's a verse, I feel like I've seen saw somewhere where that's not actually a verse, it's just a saying.
00:59:39.250 --> 00:59:51.810
Either way, I think that kind of idea might be a good one to have too, to know the that kind of sets the table to know that this this is a lesson and I am capable of bearing it.
00:59:51.890 --> 00:59:58.850
And uh real quick, I will just add because I've been searching for that, I actually came across James, James chapter four.
00:59:58.930 --> 01:00:00.610
I just add this little piece.
01:00:03.970 --> 01:00:06.610
You do not have because you do not ask.
01:00:06.850 --> 01:00:15.810
You ask and do not receive because you ask with the wrong motives, so that you may spend what you request on your pleasures.
01:00:16.050 --> 01:00:17.090
Goes back to repentance.
01:00:17.250 --> 01:00:20.769
Repentance, I'd love I'll I'll I'll define it like this.
01:00:21.090 --> 01:00:26.850
You were painting this picture of ongoing intentional act with purpose.
01:00:27.010 --> 01:00:36.210
I love how you you were you were talking about it's we think of repentance as this one thing, you know, re believe, repent, be baptized, repent, and recite this.
01:00:36.850 --> 01:00:39.330
It is it's an ongoing thing.
01:00:39.570 --> 01:00:59.650
I've I've repented and I've been baptized, I'm still repenting daily, and I it is an ongoing intentional act, it's an it's a way of living with purpose and intent, and that intent is serving God, and you know, and I think that's the motive.
01:01:00.050 --> 01:01:13.010
That's it's not about my pleasures and the pleasures that I see and lust after here on earth, the things that I want and and uh high hold in high regard, it's it's something more.
01:01:13.250 --> 01:01:17.250
Those people in Hebrews 11 that were promised and they received something greater.
01:01:17.330 --> 01:01:23.490
I believe there is something greater, and that is that is the motive and and that relationship with God.
01:01:23.810 --> 01:01:28.530
Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I think that we have two choices.
01:01:28.850 --> 01:01:44.130
We can either be shaped and formed and refined by our struggles, and God will bring about fruits after we get through our struggles, and oftentimes he just says, just sit still and wait.
01:01:44.370 --> 01:01:52.210
And it's I mean, it's not anything that we have to do during our struggles other than receive his love for us that's already there.
01:01:52.450 --> 01:02:02.850
We don't have to fight back, he's he's doing the fighting for us, and so I have personally experienced fruit in my life because of a struggle.
01:02:03.250 --> 01:02:03.810
What'd you say?
01:02:03.970 --> 01:02:06.769
Like a coconut, uh spirit's not a coconut, yeah.
01:02:06.850 --> 01:02:08.530
That's like in your head now, you're welcome.
01:02:08.769 --> 01:02:09.010
Sorry.
01:02:09.250 --> 01:02:23.810
No worries, and then but or so we could either go down that path and allow God to refine us, or we can sit with resentment and hatred towards others or blaming others.
01:02:23.970 --> 01:02:26.930
Yeah, and that obviously is gonna do the opposite.
01:02:27.090 --> 01:02:33.890
Um bitterness, that's one that's at home.
01:02:34.050 --> 01:02:35.490
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
01:02:36.210 --> 01:02:50.290
Well, this next section I thought was interesting too, moving into verses 18 through 24, where we see this comparison of Mount Sinai and of Zion.
01:02:50.690 --> 01:02:51.090
Wow.
01:02:51.410 --> 01:03:00.850
This this is a really just triumphant and beautiful section of Hebrews 12.
01:03:01.650 --> 01:03:08.610
I love the I love the contrast of some of these descriptions.
01:03:08.769 --> 01:03:27.650
I mean, we have fire, darkness, gloom, we have trumpets blasting, and then we've also got this myriad of angels, and we've got this righteous, these righteous and made perfect spirits.
01:03:27.810 --> 01:03:34.690
We've got human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, masses area.
01:03:35.010 --> 01:03:36.530
Is that the picture you're painting?
01:03:36.769 --> 01:03:41.410
The picture is really beautiful, almost like Ghostbusters.
01:03:42.450 --> 01:04:20.610
I think that this is just I I love that this part of scripture draws this parallel and shows us that while God is kind of like what we talked about in the last episode, just his holiness is in some way unfathomable, unfathomable, unapproachable, impossible to comprehend through the blood of Jesus, which this verse says is better spoken than the blood of Abel.
01:04:21.090 --> 01:04:55.090
That through that blood and through this covenant, this new covenant that we have in Jesus' blood, that we are not in this place of terrified, unapproachable scaredness, this this place that Moses was in of being terrified and trembling, but that rather that we have come into this assembly, this kind of tying it back to the cloud of witnesses, that we are in this assembly of angels, of saints, that that is that is our kingdom.
01:04:55.330 --> 01:05:07.810
That is that is just so hopeful to me, that that's what we are called to live into, to in to inherit, and really to now begin to inhabit that reality.
01:05:07.970 --> 01:05:16.610
You know, we're on the we're on this side of heaven, as as the saying goes, but but but that that's the destination that we're heading towards.
01:05:16.690 --> 01:05:19.330
And what an amazing description of that place.
01:05:19.730 --> 01:05:21.810
I I just I love these verses.
01:05:22.050 --> 01:05:30.050
And my question, I guess, for the group is that I was kind of meditating on was that that description of Abel's blood.
01:05:30.769 --> 01:05:35.250
You know, how what do we see the blood of Abel crying out for?
01:05:37.170 --> 01:05:42.450
And what does Jesus' blood do to show us a different vision, I guess.
01:05:43.730 --> 01:05:50.050
Because to me, Abel's blood is is it's crying out for for justice.
01:05:51.490 --> 01:06:01.810
That his brother has taken his life in this hateful, jealous way, and there is not that that justice.
01:06:01.890 --> 01:06:06.930
I mean it and and yet Jesus' blood is saying mercy.
01:06:07.170 --> 01:06:09.730
You know, to me that that dichotomy is so great.
01:06:09.970 --> 01:06:11.890
Well, that's very interesting that you say justice.
01:06:12.690 --> 01:06:17.330
True, real pure justice is righteousness.
01:06:19.650 --> 01:06:29.490
And and I I did I want to say this too, real quick, because what you're describing, this blood of Christ, it's it grants access.
01:06:30.210 --> 01:06:36.050
I think that's what you're you're th all of what you said, I think, was describing, but just to kind of put a point on is uh access.
01:06:36.210 --> 01:06:37.410
We have access now.
01:06:37.730 --> 01:06:37.970
Right.
01:06:38.290 --> 01:06:40.930
That that changes the perspective.
01:06:41.010 --> 01:06:42.290
Like going back to the perspective.
01:06:42.850 --> 01:06:49.890
You think about these you know, how easy we have it, not just materially and in the world, but just spiritually.
01:06:50.769 --> 01:06:53.650
We have such convenient access.
01:06:54.690 --> 01:06:59.570
To God to Christ in information.
01:06:59.890 --> 01:07:01.170
I can dig up the Greek.
01:07:01.330 --> 01:07:05.090
I don't speak Greek, but I can dig up the Greek words and I can see wherever they appear.
01:07:05.250 --> 01:07:07.170
I can see the Greek text, the Hebrew text.
01:07:07.650 --> 01:07:16.690
But you know, we have all this access to information, which is a blessing if we use it, and to the access to just approach God.
01:07:17.490 --> 01:07:24.850
And instead of, you know, having to have someone go into the temple for us and pray for us.
01:07:25.010 --> 01:07:28.050
But uh that changed the adds perspective.
01:07:29.010 --> 01:07:51.570
Um with Abel, so Abel and Jesus were were both innocent, but with Abel, it was all questions, and and he did not give up his wife willingly, where Jesus he said, I am going to pour out my blood for you.
01:07:51.810 --> 01:07:52.290
Yeah.
01:07:52.610 --> 01:07:57.650
And and and even on the cross, he says, Father, forgive them.
01:07:57.730 --> 01:08:02.930
Like he's extending grace, like in the final moments of his life.
01:08:03.090 --> 01:08:06.130
In all this pain, he is still extending grace.
01:08:06.450 --> 01:08:24.930
And so, so where Abel, you know, is like you said, it's a cry for vengeance, it's a cry for justice, but Jesus' blood is a cry of grace and forgiveness and mercy that we don't deserve.
01:08:25.569 --> 01:08:26.930
So well put, Lacey.
01:08:28.210 --> 01:08:28.850
Yeah.
01:08:29.409 --> 01:08:59.409
I thought that also that the yeah, just the the contrast here drawing on Moses and the and and what was described of Mount Sinai, that fear of the Lord that was so overwhelming that they they didn't even they could barely stand the voice.
01:08:59.970 --> 01:09:06.369
And yet Jesus constantly is speaking in a voice that is inviting us in.
01:09:07.810 --> 01:09:34.599
You say fear, you know, we often well, especially in this kind of setting in Bible studies or something like that, fear we're we're quick to remind, okay, fear also means respect.
01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:36.119
There's a respectful fear.
01:09:36.439 --> 01:09:37.800
I think it's more than that.
01:09:38.039 --> 01:09:43.079
I think fear in this context is a forcible respect.
01:09:43.399 --> 01:09:47.159
You have no other choice that to respect.
01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:58.359
Like I am shaking, I am scared, out of my wits, I have nothing but to do, I have no nothing to do but respect this power.
01:09:58.519 --> 01:10:01.960
It is greater than me, it is greater than anything.
01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:06.920
So I I would say I would kind of put it that way, forcible respect.
01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:09.639
I do want to say real quick too.
01:10:10.920 --> 01:10:12.439
I I'm sorry.
01:10:12.760 --> 01:10:14.760
I was I was gonna add that about fear.
01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:15.559
Oh no.
01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:18.519
I I mean to cut you off on your point.
01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:36.680
But I did want to add, kind of going off what Lacey was saying, what Lacey was saying was that we talked about earlier, you know, this the circ the circumstances, Taylor, you brought up about relationships, difficult rel interpersonal relationships that we struggle with.
01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:42.519
And you know, we look to our relationship with God, and then we also look to our relationship with our neighbor.
01:10:42.599 --> 01:10:45.960
How do we treat those difficult relationships?
01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:52.599
The way you presented it, I was thinking more in the context of kind of like a of a friend that may not be a good influence.
01:10:52.920 --> 01:10:57.239
Can I overcome that as a positive influence, or do I need to separate myself from that?
01:10:57.479 --> 01:10:59.720
That was just kind of where my mind went when you're describing it.
01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:07.159
I also think thinking the context of those people who the Bible says persecute you.
01:11:07.399 --> 01:11:15.720
To me, I think today's terms, I think those it's for me, it's more applicable to think about those people who aggravate you.
01:11:16.119 --> 01:11:17.479
You know, in whatever setting.
01:11:17.800 --> 01:11:25.319
Those people that really just kind of push you, push your patience, push your love, push your discipline.
01:11:25.559 --> 01:11:29.159
Those people that you know you just don't mix well with.
01:11:29.319 --> 01:11:30.680
I think think of those people.
01:11:30.840 --> 01:11:34.760
First off, start by praying for those people uh for those people.
01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:35.319
Yes.
01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:41.880
If you can start from that place, and and I I've done it, I tried to be more consistent about it.
01:11:41.960 --> 01:11:43.800
It so far it hasn't gotten easier.
01:11:43.880 --> 01:11:47.319
It's still, you know, that that's a difficult prayer.
01:11:47.639 --> 01:11:50.760
But that's the lesson, I feel like.
01:11:50.840 --> 01:11:53.559
That in my experience, that's the lesson I needed to learn.
01:11:53.720 --> 01:11:57.880
I needed to learn how to love even those people that aggravate you.
01:11:58.039 --> 01:11:59.399
They're still souls.
01:11:59.639 --> 01:12:01.559
Jesus still died for them.
01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:09.319
That person that you just dread seeing, you know, whether it's at work or at home, not my ex not my case.
01:12:09.559 --> 01:12:12.519
I'm just saying like any aspect, just consider any aspect.
01:12:12.680 --> 01:12:17.960
I don't I don't have that except maybe an angry three-year-old.
01:12:19.319 --> 01:12:23.159
But yeah, I'm just you know, think of all of your circumstances.
01:12:23.479 --> 01:12:31.079
There's, you know, there's always going to be that one that that one person that just you know, you have to kind of tiptoe around or treat different.
01:12:31.639 --> 01:12:34.680
Just think that's the lesson.
01:12:34.760 --> 01:12:36.039
What's the lesson to be learned here?
01:12:36.119 --> 01:12:40.599
And that's I think first start praying for them and start learning how to love them.
01:12:40.760 --> 01:12:45.479
When you learn how to love those those people, you start to learn a lot more about love.
01:12:47.880 --> 01:12:51.720
Well, moving into this last section and kind of wrapping things up here.
01:12:53.079 --> 01:12:59.239
I thought that the way that this chapter ends was really I mean, obviously really powerful.
01:12:59.479 --> 01:13:08.279
We have this again, this imagery of fire and God being like a consuming fire, which I thought was great.
01:13:08.599 --> 01:13:57.720
I guess my my final kind of meditation is this balance, finding this balance between a fear of the Lord, this deep and reverent respect that we have for God, holding on to that, knowing that He is holy and and worthy of praise and in a way beyond our ability to fathom, beyond our ability to look in his face, to see his face, and yet knowing at the same time that we can call him Abba and that we have this intimate relationship as sons and daughters chosen by him.
01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:06.439
That balance is just that's one of the things that I thought was highlighted well in this final section.
01:14:08.119 --> 01:14:25.960
Yeah, that we can offer gratitude to God and serve him with reverence and awe and know that that he consumes up and and burns up the things of the world that are not worth having and he purifies them and and what is left at the end of the day is that which is holy.
01:14:26.119 --> 01:14:28.519
And I just love that description.
01:14:28.760 --> 01:14:29.319
Yeah.
01:14:29.880 --> 01:14:36.599
While you were saying that, Taylor, it made me think back on our original icebreaker question about Esau and Soup.
01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:47.479
And it's it reminds me that we are just constantly distracted by worldly things, things that are that we are tempted to trade our our souls for.
01:14:47.559 --> 01:15:00.920
So I think about like Esau's birthright, it's an inheritance, and our relationship with God and the promise of eternity with him is an inheritance.
01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:07.559
And so, like, what are we distracted by or allowing our souls to be corrupted by?
01:15:07.720 --> 01:15:09.159
Like, what are we trading?
01:15:09.639 --> 01:15:17.800
And it it's a it's a reminder like that that bowl of soup was it was a momentary pleasure, and he regrets it.
01:15:17.880 --> 01:15:21.479
He cries and says, No, please, I I want my birthright.
01:15:21.639 --> 01:15:22.359
He regrets it.
01:15:22.439 --> 01:15:41.639
And so, in the same way, when we are in the middle of suffering and we turn to things that offer momentary pleasure, we I think all of us experience getting through that and then regretting that decision, whatever, like whatever we turn to that momentarily pleases us.
01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:53.399
And to Taylor's point, though that soup or like fill in the blank, whatever it is that is drawing us away from God and our relationship with God, it is temporary.
01:15:53.639 --> 01:15:58.519
And in this last section, God says that his kingdom will not be shaken.
01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:07.000
It is it is the promise that is eternal, it is not the momentary creation from God, it is the creator and his kingdom.
01:16:07.880 --> 01:16:09.559
Robin's not worth it.
01:16:11.479 --> 01:16:12.920
It doesn't say that in here.
01:16:14.760 --> 01:16:23.720
I like how verse 25 says maybe not like, I appreciate and convicted.
01:16:24.760 --> 01:16:29.800
See to it that you do not refuse him who is speaking.
01:16:30.599 --> 01:16:32.519
Here's another change in perspective.
01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:37.479
You know, going back to the the lessons, what's the lesson to be learned?
01:16:37.880 --> 01:16:40.680
What's the takeaway I'm supposed to be get taking away?
01:16:42.199 --> 01:16:44.359
It goes back to your point, Sabrina.
01:16:44.519 --> 01:16:45.559
Like, what are those desires?
01:16:45.639 --> 01:16:50.920
What are those things that what's the ramen that's dr you know that's tempting me?
01:16:51.479 --> 01:16:52.680
Identifying that.
01:16:54.359 --> 01:16:57.960
But you know, I I like I've been referring to what's the lesson.
01:16:58.439 --> 01:17:01.880
Another way of saying it is how is God speaking to you?
01:17:02.199 --> 01:17:03.479
How is he communicating?
01:17:03.639 --> 01:17:05.239
What is he communicating to you?
01:17:05.720 --> 01:17:20.199
Just another little change of perspective there as far as considering it that way, like I love I can say I love Jesus, I love God, I believe in the Christ, but I still struggle with this sin.
01:17:20.359 --> 01:17:23.720
And so when I'm facing the sin, I have to be honest with myself.
01:17:23.960 --> 01:17:27.559
Do I love this sin more than I love Christ?
01:17:27.960 --> 01:17:37.960
And if you ask yourself that question point blank and are are completely honest with yourself, knowing that you know God knows you better than you do.
01:17:38.199 --> 01:17:38.519
Right.
01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:45.479
He He knows if you're being genuine and you know of of good you know good conscience.
01:17:46.599 --> 01:17:48.680
Be honest with yourself, you love that sin.
01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:57.880
With if it's something that you're constantly struggling with and you're continually coming back to, it's you're putting that sin above, you're saying, I love that sin more than I love God.
01:17:58.920 --> 01:18:02.279
Just another da da da change in perspective.
01:18:05.720 --> 01:18:18.920
One final thought on my end that I had noted down the last scripture about all right, let me pull it up because I don't want to mess it up, but for our God as a consuming fire, like that's the last scripture, verse 29.
01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:20.920
For our God as a consuming fire.
01:18:21.079 --> 01:18:22.920
Um, well, a few things came to mind.
01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:32.840
Like one, as we were talking about earlier, um, if God is the fire, then we are the molt the metal or gold that's being refined by him.
01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:36.199
And so that like imagery pops into my mind.
01:18:36.359 --> 01:18:41.800
But I don't know if this is right, but I also see this as like fire spreading.
01:18:42.039 --> 01:18:53.880
So just in the same way that we see sin as a disease and sin as spreading, like God and his love and his gospel is spreading as well.
01:18:54.039 --> 01:18:58.359
And so, like, I want to be a part of the gospel that spreads, not the sin.
01:18:59.319 --> 01:19:01.079
Yes, light it up.
01:19:02.199 --> 01:19:14.920
No, and it kind of come back, I kind of come back to that kind of what I referenced earlier, how fortunate we are in this day and age, not only have access to God through prayer, but access through information.
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:19.639
And look, I know small group, we started this earlier in the year.
01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:21.319
I know it's nothing novel.
01:19:21.559 --> 01:19:29.159
I know every probably one in three people have a podcast now and talking about similar things that we're talking about.
01:19:29.319 --> 01:19:43.720
I know we're not doing anything new and different, but the fact that we can have this conversation and share it with people in Ashburn, Virginia, you know, Paris and Germany, we can have this conversation like how go it goes back to the consuming fire.
01:19:43.880 --> 01:19:56.359
I feel like there's something there we can get down on ourselves, and especially like uh from as a society, like oh, you know, our our country's headed in the wrong direction, and it's you know, all this negative stuff.
01:19:56.599 --> 01:19:59.639
First off, I'd point you back to 1968.
01:19:59.880 --> 01:20:02.920
You go back there, and it's like, man, we think it's bad now.
01:20:03.079 --> 01:20:04.279
There's some scary times.
01:20:04.359 --> 01:20:07.239
We've been through some very dark and scary times.
01:20:07.639 --> 01:20:10.840
But at the same time, there is a lot of good.
01:20:11.079 --> 01:20:22.840
There's a lot of good, genuine things happening, and you know, and I uh uh it goes back to like I said, uh it's it's all in front of us.
01:20:23.239 --> 01:20:24.199
Right in front of us.
01:20:24.279 --> 01:20:26.920
There's like I said, there's a lot of podcasts like ours.
01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:28.760
My brother does one.
01:20:29.079 --> 01:20:43.639
And you know, so there it's all around us, and the fact that to do something like this, you know, to to just a conversation between the four of us that can reach all all around the world, that's that's a consuming fire.
01:20:44.039 --> 01:20:48.599
I just pray that we're perpetuating the right fire, you know.
01:20:51.079 --> 01:21:05.000
All right, so just one one final thought that I had was I think that there are seasons that we go through of discipline, and there are seasons of suffering, and those are two totally different things.
01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:11.399
I think that like if I lose my job, like that that's a season of discipline.
01:21:11.479 --> 01:21:13.639
Okay, God, what are you trying to teach me?
01:21:13.960 --> 01:21:19.720
But if like with my grandmother getting cancer, that's a season of suffering.
01:21:19.880 --> 01:21:20.199
Yeah.
01:21:20.439 --> 01:21:25.000
And I don't think that that's a season of discipline, or there are lessons in it, yes.
01:21:25.319 --> 01:21:34.439
But I I think that those are two, it it can be two totally different things, but there are lessons to be learned.
01:21:34.599 --> 01:21:41.239
There is joy in the trials in both, but it can be too too totally.
01:21:41.479 --> 01:21:42.119
Does that make sense?
01:21:42.279 --> 01:21:56.119
Yeah, I yeah, I hear you saying like God is not a part of and doesn't want us to suffer, and he's not a part of like our our of our grandparents dying, that's the result of sin and uh us living in a broken world.
01:21:56.359 --> 01:21:57.880
Right, exactly.
01:22:00.599 --> 01:22:02.199
Yeah, I think that's a good point.
01:22:02.359 --> 01:22:20.119
And and when when you look at the this word in Greek that appears here in in Hebrews 12, where it's talking about discipline really I think it translates pretty well to the formation of character.
01:22:22.039 --> 01:22:26.680
So when you think about it that way, I I think it makes sense, right?
01:22:26.760 --> 01:22:41.159
There are things that God does that strengthen our character, these discipline moments, and that is a different thing than just the consequences of sin and death and and brokenness and the suffering that comes with that.
01:22:41.319 --> 01:22:42.039
So yeah.
01:22:43.800 --> 01:22:44.840
Trying to think of a word.
01:22:44.920 --> 01:22:46.439
It strengthens our character.
01:22:47.239 --> 01:22:50.119
It strengthens our constitution.
01:22:51.399 --> 01:22:53.239
Think of the struggles that you've been through.
01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:54.920
That's another thing to do too.
01:22:55.399 --> 01:22:58.680
Uh you know, we haven't talked a whole lot about grace.
01:22:59.079 --> 01:23:06.519
I know we've we've talked about it without naming it, but it kind of comes back to I've brought this up before.
01:23:07.399 --> 01:23:17.319
Understanding grace, being able to under you know, understand that it's been extended to you, but learning h when and how to extend it to yourself as well.
01:23:17.880 --> 01:23:34.039
Think about those struggles that you've gone through, even like what Lacey's talking about, whether it's uh you know, loss of a job and what's a lesson, or a lot or or a death or something like you something that you just have to go through, uh a s obstacle or struggle of some kind.
01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:40.439
Think of those things and that you're still here.
01:23:41.720 --> 01:23:57.800
You know, that's one thing like going back to those those long-lasting struggles that just hang around, whether it's morning or or you're going through uncertainty of a job or finances, whatever it is, those things that just stick around.
01:24:01.399 --> 01:24:03.960
Think of the times that God's delivered you before.
01:24:04.599 --> 01:24:13.319
I've had to I've learned that lesson where it's like asking and asking and asking, and then I realize God's been answering it the whole time.
01:24:13.399 --> 01:24:14.599
I'm still here.
01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:20.920
It may not have met my full expectations of what I was asking for, but he is delivering.
01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:30.359
And so recognizing that in a way, extending a little bit of grace to yourself to understand that you've gotten through it before by God's grace.
01:24:30.680 --> 01:24:33.159
God's carried you this far.
01:24:33.319 --> 01:24:34.039
You're still here.
01:24:34.199 --> 01:24:40.840
I mean, there's a I think there's a good time too for healthy appreciation of how far we've come.
01:24:41.720 --> 01:24:55.639
You know, we we briefly talked about Moses and and the Israelites and Mount Sinai, you know, and I and I think one of the most beautiful moments in the Bible I've talked about before, Moses on you know Mount Mebo was it?
01:24:55.800 --> 01:25:12.519
Anyway, the last day of Moses, he's on the mountaintop of God, just sitting there and just man, how can you not sit there and just think back at all those reflect or all those struggles, all those times those people that aggravated you would not stop.
01:25:12.920 --> 01:25:20.279
And God got you through it, and here you are sitting on the mountaintop with him, and just you and him at the end of it, that's all it's you and him.
01:25:21.319 --> 01:25:22.359
Remember that.
01:25:22.519 --> 01:25:30.519
Remember appreciate that uh and know that he's gotten you this far and and that he's gonna continue to lead you if you allow him.
01:25:32.279 --> 01:25:35.800
You have survived 100% of your bad days.
01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:36.599
Right.
01:25:37.079 --> 01:25:39.720
80% of the time it works every time.
01:25:40.039 --> 01:25:41.079
That's right.
01:25:42.039 --> 01:25:46.920
Well, this has been, I think, a really interesting discussion of Hebrews 12.
01:25:47.399 --> 01:25:52.920
I don't know if there are any final thoughts wrapping up here on the table.
01:25:53.319 --> 01:25:55.559
I got one more quick one.
01:25:55.720 --> 01:25:59.960
I uh I I I know I plugged Hebrews 11 at the beginning.
01:26:00.039 --> 01:26:02.199
I'm gonna plug Hebrews 13 here at the end.
01:26:02.519 --> 01:26:03.079
Here we go.
01:26:03.319 --> 01:26:08.920
Because there is a verse that goes off of something uh Sabrina uh in particular you brought up.
01:26:09.559 --> 01:26:17.720
But also I've talked about before a project we've been working on that we haven't released yet, Profiles of Faith, shameless plug.
01:26:17.880 --> 01:26:33.880
It's a s a project that I've I've been just trying to get some of the more seasoned veterans of life who get their and sit down with them, do one-on-one and and just get their whole story and and their thoughts on faith and what it is and what it has meant to them.
01:26:34.359 --> 01:26:48.279
By the way, I will be here soon releasing at least an audio version on our on our channel of of an episode to at least give a preview, let you guys I keep referencing it so you guys know what I'm talking about.
01:26:48.680 --> 01:26:57.800
The verse I selected for that project, just kind of like the the main verse to kind of keep in mind that pop that comes out is 13 Hebrews 13, 7.
01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:11.479
Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you, and considering the result of their way of life, imitate their faith.
01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:23.079
Find those people that have influenced you in the right way, recognize those those examples and and learn from them.
01:27:24.039 --> 01:27:30.199
And even in the deck, maybe there's some stuff that maybe they're not good examples of.
01:27:30.359 --> 01:27:32.199
You can still learn from if that makes sense.
01:27:32.279 --> 01:27:44.359
So you know, it's like learn from their mistakes and and and grow from what they've learned and those lessons that they've those struggles that they've gone through and those lessons they've taken away from that.
01:27:46.840 --> 01:28:02.439
Well I'm really glad that we love and serve a God who, like fire, consumes impurities, consumes hearts, and lights people up with the love of Jesus.
01:28:02.760 --> 01:28:03.399
It's great.
01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:13.479
So I'm glad we got to discuss Hebrews twelve and yeah, looking forward to the next time.
01:28:13.720 --> 01:28:16.519
It's always a fun fun time at the table.
01:28:18.279 --> 01:28:20.519
I'll try just as a last verse.
01:28:20.680 --> 01:28:22.599
That that last one was kind of a shameless plug.
01:28:22.680 --> 01:28:26.119
But something to kind of like just take with you.
01:28:27.319 --> 01:28:34.359
13 1 of the brothers and sisters Philadelphia.
01:28:35.239 --> 01:28:38.359
Let Philadelphia continue.
01:28:39.479 --> 01:28:43.880
I think that's pretty it reaches a lot of the points I think we were getting to.
01:28:44.039 --> 01:28:44.359
Yeah.
01:28:44.920 --> 01:28:47.720
Does that satisfy your Hebrews 12 itch?
01:28:47.800 --> 01:28:47.880
Yeah.
01:28:48.279 --> 01:28:49.800
Or at least a little bit.
01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:50.760
I shouldn't say it.
01:28:51.079 --> 01:28:52.039
It was you, Taylor.
01:28:52.119 --> 01:28:55.159
You're yes.
01:28:55.720 --> 01:28:56.359
I think so.
01:28:56.760 --> 01:28:57.800
I'm I love it.
01:28:57.960 --> 01:29:03.479
I'm like I said, you brought up earlier in the week Hebrews 12 is something you want to talk about.
01:29:03.639 --> 01:29:04.840
Hey, I'm here for it, man.
01:29:05.079 --> 01:29:06.039
Hebrews anything.
01:29:06.119 --> 01:29:06.599
Let's go.
01:29:06.760 --> 01:29:07.000
Yeah.
01:29:07.159 --> 01:29:07.800
Let's go.
01:29:08.119 --> 01:29:09.239
Really powerful book.
01:29:09.479 --> 01:29:14.680
So uh, well, I'll just You'll be back.
01:29:15.239 --> 01:29:18.840
Sorry, I've been getting new buttons and I wanted to try that one out.
01:29:19.079 --> 01:29:30.519
We thank you guys so much for joining us tonight and continuously being here for our small group, being part of our small group family.
01:29:30.599 --> 01:29:37.479
Like I said earlier, you know, there's a lot of options out there, and we're so thankful that uh you would include us.
01:29:37.639 --> 01:29:45.960
And we just pray and hope that you know we've given you some good, pure, wholesome, good things to just think on and consider.
01:29:46.680 --> 01:30:00.680
And if there's anything that you feel like we may be missing, falling short, or something that we haven't discussed yet that you really are eager to hear and learn or know more about, please just let us know.
01:30:00.760 --> 01:30:03.399
You can comment, you can uh contact us.
01:30:03.559 --> 01:30:05.720
All the information's in the description of the podcast.
01:30:05.800 --> 01:30:08.519
Uh leave us a message, we'd love to hear from you.
01:30:08.680 --> 01:30:10.439
And uh up until the next time, guys.
01:30:10.519 --> 01:30:19.960
Thanks for being a part of smaller.