Forgotten Wars | Single Malt Strategy | Episode 101

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Welcome, everyone, back to Single Malt Strategy Podcast. This is
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episode number 101. I am your co-host, host slash co-host, Tortuga,
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and Matt, the real host, the one who does all
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the editing. How are you doing today?
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What was that?
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I got a little, you know, two year, no, it's not,
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year and a half year old, whatever. Want to go
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to sleep, just wants to cry, so trying to record
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through the pain.
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This guy's gonna, it's gonna be top-notch commentary, better commentary
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than THG.
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Probably. Like, oh, that was very insightful babbling.
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Woo! He's excited about this.
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Me too.
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Yeah.
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All right, Wolf, how you doing?
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I'm good. You know, excited to be here for another
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exciting podcast episode. Great to have the little rug rat
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around with us.
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Your excitement level didn't match the amount. I'm sure this
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is great podcasting, by the way. Make sure to have
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a baby on your knee when you're recording so you
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can get that woo!
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Well, he set the bar pretty high with that woo.
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I mean, I don't think Finnish, our other member here today,
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can match that. But you want to give it a try, Finn?
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I can't even come close.
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Okay, don't even try.
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It's too difficult.
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Only one employee here got the let's bring your kid
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to work day email.
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Who's drawing the W-2 here?
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That's right.
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Finn and Wolf forgot to bring their kids.
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We do have a website. We do have a website now. www.singlemaltstrategy.com
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It looks pretty good too.
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I gotta say. Mr. THG here knocked it out of
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the park. Good looking website. Good editing skills that I
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don't think are acknowledged either. So THG, really again, the
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glue that keeps this whole operation sailing into your podcast
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feed every month.
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Or sometimes more or less than a month.
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Five weeks is a month, basically. Six weeks, the same.
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Who can say?
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Well, let's jump over to something interesting to me, which
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is what I'm here for anyway, which is what have
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you been playing lately? I'm going to start with Mr.
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Finnish Jaeger.
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Dang.
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You're hitting me with it first?
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All right.
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I've been playing a game that you're going to probably
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talk about, Eslabong.
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah, I've been playing that.
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It's been fun to kind of put little teams together
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and Work on the skills of my squad.
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It's been pretty fun. S belong?
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Like S?
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E-S-L-A-B-O-N-G.
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That's interesting. Yeah, what is it? Finish, you want to
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describe it a little bit?
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Let me quickly pull up this team page here.
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I mean, I would describe it as Eastside Hockey Manager
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meets Gladiator Management or Arena Battler.
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Arena Battler, yeah. Club Squad Builder.
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But it's got that interesting wrinkle that you get to
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play one of the... So it's mostly 5v5 matches, so
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you're actually hiring... It's like the context, I think, is
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mostly fantasy because you have all these traditional Dungeons &
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Dragons classes like Cleric, Priest, Warrior, but... Barbarian. Yeah, exactly.
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And then build your team. You should have a healer.
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It kind of has that whole party mechanics where you
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can round out your forces if you send... five melee
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fighters that you might not do as well as if
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you have a rounded out force. You got to buy
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people and sell them later. Try to make a profit
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when you train them up.
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And the matches are kind of set up like it's
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a league. You know, you play, was it 19 or
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20 regular season games? And there's like little mid-season tournaments
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for extra points in the standings and make the playoffs.
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You get moved up to the next league or you
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If you finish near the bottom, you get relegated. So
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it's like this, yeah, a weird fantasy plus sports management
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arena battler.
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And very enjoyable. Plus it was made in Godot, and
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that's always interesting to me to see what kind of
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games are being made in Godot these days.
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So what else have I been playing? It's been a while,
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but I played Gallipoli with Mr. Wolfpack a couple weeks ago.
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Maybe we'll talk about that today. And then that's the
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first personal shooter set in Gallipoli, believe it or not.
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Shocking.
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And I played a little bit of House of Legacy recently,
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mostly because it's been a while, but I created like
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a YouTube video for the House of Legacy game mechanics.
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And some people commented on that post recently asking for
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game mechanic advice. So I was kind of playing just
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to be able to respond to their comments.
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As a reminder, that House of Legacy is the like Japan, China, sorry, China,
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like dynasty building game. That's right.
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Yeah.
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Like CK3-ish?
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Clan, family management game, political things, a little bit of
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warfare on the side.
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Yeah.
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Talked about it extensively. I know that they're working on...
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The game is headed towards a 1.0 release at some point.
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So, hopefully soon.
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They put out a dev blog on July 31st about
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the features that they're going to implement in their 1.0 release.
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So, it's coming.
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I'll probably, I'll be playing it and talking about it
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whenever that update comes out.
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That's it for me.
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What about Mr.
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Wolfpack?
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Have you been somewhere, you know, you've been.
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Doing any gaming recently?
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I went, I went out of town.
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Okay.
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To a little place called Germany. And I went to Gamescom,
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met a lot of game devs, talked a lot about games.
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Germany's a little smaller now than it was in like 1944,
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isn't it?
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That's right. The country has... changed although you said 1944
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yeah it's definitely it is smaller yeah yeah yeah for
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sure anyway continue um yeah talked a lot about games
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but haven't played very many games however before i left
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i was i was doing some gaming like you said
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gallipoli i played that with uh two of you mr
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the historical gamer and i did some gallipoli and then
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i played a couple of rounds with you late in
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the night and uh gallipoli is quite a bit of
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fun Um, it's interesting comparing this first person shooter launch
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to another one, which is hell at least Vietnam. I mean,
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I think hell at least Vietnam is more popular. However, it's,
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it has mixed reviews or is Gallipoli, you know, more niche,
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but reviews are generally pretty positive. Big fan of a
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lot of the gunplay and stuff in Gallipoli. Like, you
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can tell the devs are interested in the game they're making. Whereas,
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I don't think that's really the case with Hell Let
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Loose Vietnam. That game just seems like, how can we
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resell Hell Let Loose and make a profit? Very corporatized.
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They watched a couple of Vietnam War movies and slapped
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together a game. I don't know. I'm just... It's all
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very disappointing to me.
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So it's the the Gallipoli devs.
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They did the other World War One games, right?
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Yeah, that's right.
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They did.
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They do the World War One series. So their game
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before Gallipoli was Isonzo. And then before that, Tannenberg and
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their first game was Verdun. And they kind of named
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their games after the big battle in the theater. And,
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you know, the most most famous one like Gallipoli. But
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the game's not limited to Gallipoli, so they're doing lots
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of battles. And they're also going to be adding more
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factions to Gallipoli, like the Russians. The French, I believe, actually.
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And they already have a new map that they teased.
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Looks cool.
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Big fan of those World War I games. I've played
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all of them now, and I actually think Gallipoli might
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be my favorite recent one. Again, the gunplay and... Suppression
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mechanics are really cool. It would be fun to get
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the whole gang to play it, but Tortuga Power really
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does not like PvP games.
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Well, I also fell on my sword and sacrificed the
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key for Mr. Finish.
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Yeah, I would just buy it for you.
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Fall on your sword, or did you just not take
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it before finished it?
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I wanted to portray myself in a very heroic light,
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so I prefer if we just move on before these
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questions get asked or answered.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Well, I want to mention Hell Let Loose Vietnam because,
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you know, based off of what you were saying, Wolf,
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like the Gallipoli game has had several preceding games that
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were successful and I think very popular, kind of fleshed out.
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Yeah.
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But, you know, Hell Let Loose, the World War II
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game is good.
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It's fine.
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You know, it's not what you and I like, which was... Post-Gryptum,
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Squad 44. But I don't know if Hell Let Loose
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had a good foundation going into it from the previous game.
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No.
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While Gallipoli did.
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And Hell Let Loose, like, was acquired... This is an
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interesting topic altogether. Not that this audience probably doesn't care
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too much about first-person shooters. That being said, Hell Let
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Loose was acquired by Team 17. as a publisher and
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the old dev team quit, they left and a new
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dev team was brought on and you can tell, you
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could tell when that happened. Like immediately the patches went
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downhill for hell at loose. They tried to, they started
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selling more just cosmetics and slop. And that's definitely the
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case with hell at loose Vietnam. It's like this game
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releases to mixed reviews.
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Here's the roadmap.
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Here's what you get to look forward to cosmetics. You
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get a new gun every once in a while. And
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it's just like, you know, drip fed stuff like that.
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And again, I think, you know, a bunch of people
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looked around and were like, what's what's something that would
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sell pretty well? Another, you know, historical theater that catches
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the eye. Vietnam hasn't been done in a while. I
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also I see Hull at Loose as kind of a
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walking in the footsteps of Battlefield to some degree. Battlefield did.
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I want to say Battlefield started with World War Two, right?
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Battlefield 1942, and then they did Battlefield Vietnam. I'm kind
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of out on how I lose at this point. I
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was interested in checking out the World War II version again,
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because they're still adding content to it. And the game's
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very popular because they released on console. Gallipoli is also
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on console too, I should mention. What else have I
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been playing? I downloaded and played Iron Nest Heavy Turret Simulator.
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This is a, you know, diesel punk turret simulation game
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um pretty cool i i do enjoy it although i
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i can see it being a little repetitive after a
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while i there are missions where there's like counter battery
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fire coming in at you and stuff which makes things
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a little more exciting some sort of ticking clock elements
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as well so that does help to spice it up
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but you know you get less inaccurate information and then
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you try to figure out where you need to aim,
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and shoot a big gun. So that's always fun. Pretty
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fun and relatively chill.
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But that's about it.
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Just to comment a little bit more on that one,
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I think it's a really cool way they play the game.
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It's first person where you're actually going over and moving
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the levers and stuff, right? So it's not just our
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usual way of playing a lot of war games is
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like you're the tank itself. You're not a person in
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the tank. But this is actually your person running around
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this two-story, huge artillery machine. And you're like loading these,
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I don't know how big those shells are. They're like
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three feet in diameter. It is enormous. Like the biggest
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shells I've ever seen.
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Yeah, I think the dev said it's like an 800
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millimeter gun. Wow.
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Okay. Yeah, it's big. What does that translate to?
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In inches?
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It's like two yards, so.
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I played that game too, and I have the same
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opinion as Wolf. I think the gameplay was fun, but
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it was a little repetitive by the end of the campaign.
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I'm trying to think. There's another heavy turret game that's
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a sci-fi one. It has a more German-sounding name.
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But also, just while you're looking it up, I think
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that this game is also not just about firing shells, though.
256
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I think it's a little bit about there's a political
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overtone to it, right? You start off, you're fighting for
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the king or whatever. Missions are targeting civilian targets and stuff.
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And I think that part of what the gameplay is...
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It's kind of just a narrative of suppressing rebels and
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stuff like this. Did you get that impression, too, or
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is that just me?
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Yeah, you're like playing for the monarchy, right?
264
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Yeah. By the end, is it like that Ace Combat
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game where, like, I think the factions flip in one
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of them?
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Oh man, you know what this reminds me of? I
268
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don't know if you switch sides, but it reminds me
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of that Star Wars Squadrons game where in the marketing
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they were like, play as the Empire, and you play
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as one mission as the Empire before they switch you
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to play as the Rebels.
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And I was like, lame.
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Yeah.
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Anyway.
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I don't know if you really switched. I don't think
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you switched sides.
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It's an interesting game. People can check it out if
279
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they want, but let's drive forward then. It's your turn, Matt.
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What do you want to tell us about?
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So I've been playing a little bit of Gallipoli, played
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it with Wolf for a bit. I would love to
283
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play with the rest of you here soon. So that
284
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would be cool. I enjoy it for a lot of
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the same reasons that Wolf already laid out, so I
286
00:13:02.710 --> 00:13:05.169
won't bore you all with repeating myself. I've also been
287
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playing a little bit of Strategic Command World War I.
288
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I can't remember if we mentioned that in the last episode.
289
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I don't think we did, but basically I'm back to
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playing that game. Best of the Strategic Command games, and
291
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I'm playing a multiplayer game against a board game designer
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I know, so that's fun. So a little bit of
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acceptable losses, which is probably the new thing on my list.
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I don't know if any of you have seen that,
295
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but I played a demo a while back. The game
296
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comes out on September 8th before this goes live.
297
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Can you tell us about it?
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00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:42.679
So Acceptable Losses is a platoon management game where you
299
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are basically your platoon commander. You've got four squads in
300
00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:50.500
your platoon and it's in World War One. And you
301
00:13:50.539 --> 00:13:53.360
basically are given missions every single day that you need
302
00:13:53.379 --> 00:13:56.360
to carry out. Some of those missions come from headquarters
303
00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:58.559
and some of them are mandatory and some of them
304
00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:00.950
are like, hey, do you want to send some troops
305
00:14:01.049 --> 00:14:03.429
out to like fix up your trenches or fix up
306
00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:05.409
your barbed wire or other things like that that are
307
00:14:05.450 --> 00:14:08.909
just kind of your responsibility for protecting your portion of
308
00:14:08.929 --> 00:14:11.549
the trench? You know, if you don't send your squads
309
00:14:11.649 --> 00:14:13.649
out and headquarters finds out about it, it can kind
310
00:14:13.690 --> 00:14:17.200
of hurt your reputation with them. Every week or so
311
00:14:17.259 --> 00:14:20.159
you get graded based on your performance by HQ if
312
00:14:20.179 --> 00:14:23.320
you're Rating drops too far, you can be relieved of command.
313
00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:28.740
You have to manage your squad's morale, their cohesion, their casualties,
314
00:14:28.779 --> 00:14:33.470
which they will take, and things like that. Text-based, you know,
315
00:14:33.649 --> 00:14:37.309
it's got some visuals of, like, folders, and it lists
316
00:14:37.350 --> 00:14:39.649
all your soldiers, and you've got a little calendar that
317
00:14:39.669 --> 00:14:41.950
tells you, like, where you're at in the month and whatever.
318
00:14:42.830 --> 00:14:45.259
It's not like you're not running around a trench or
319
00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:49.049
anything like that. Your wife sends you letters. You've got
320
00:14:49.070 --> 00:14:51.110
a free text box. You can send letters back. I
321
00:14:51.129 --> 00:14:55.120
don't think what you send matters because I'd be in trouble.
322
00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:59.960
Could you send some really horrible things? I've been over here.
323
00:15:00.019 --> 00:15:01.320
I realize we're done.
324
00:15:01.700 --> 00:15:04.700
Basically, like, I'm going to die. We're all going to die. Don't,
325
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.620
you know, whatever. I said some stuff about, like, we're
326
00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:10.490
going over the top in 10 days. Like, nothing, you know,
327
00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:12.190
that wouldn't get by censors, you know.
328
00:15:12.210 --> 00:15:13.190
Oh, man.
329
00:15:13.909 --> 00:15:15.970
So uh you know i had i had a guy
330
00:15:16.029 --> 00:15:18.730
killed or whatever it's got a nice little touch when
331
00:15:18.750 --> 00:15:21.049
your men die you're like engrave their names into your
332
00:15:21.100 --> 00:15:23.639
desk so it's a little bit a little bit somber
333
00:15:23.659 --> 00:15:26.120
in that way um you don't ever really like get
334
00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:27.840
to know your men in the way that like you
335
00:15:27.860 --> 00:15:29.559
do kind of in a game like burden of command
336
00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:32.009
like i never have a sense of like oh this
337
00:15:32.090 --> 00:15:35.730
guy liked to play soccer or something there's no real
338
00:15:35.809 --> 00:15:39.029
interaction with your men other than like maybe occasionally there'll
339
00:15:39.049 --> 00:15:41.059
be an event that pops up that says like someone
340
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.820
does something. But yeah, it's kind of an interesting little game.
341
00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:45.840
And Oh, also you can choose like if you want
342
00:15:45.860 --> 00:15:47.860
to give your troops a buff, cause like different missions
343
00:15:47.899 --> 00:15:51.360
have different difficulties. You can like include yourself in the mission.
344
00:15:51.379 --> 00:15:51.950
Can you die?
345
00:15:51.970 --> 00:15:54.649
I believe so. Based on the writeup, I have not.
346
00:15:54.990 --> 00:15:58.250
Rain is bad. Rain is like, it's got different modifiers,
347
00:15:58.289 --> 00:16:01.850
weather modifiers that like dramatically affect the results of your,
348
00:16:01.929 --> 00:16:05.090
your boy's. And I streamed it actually last night and
349
00:16:05.129 --> 00:16:07.950
got sacked five days before the platoon was going to
350
00:16:07.970 --> 00:16:10.629
go over the top because everything was going great for
351
00:16:10.669 --> 00:16:13.320
like an hour. And then the rain started and then
352
00:16:13.340 --> 00:16:16.080
the mission failure started and then the casualty started and
353
00:16:16.100 --> 00:16:19.039
then we started pressing. And then I stopped assigning squads
354
00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:21.019
because I didn't have enough men in the squad to
355
00:16:21.070 --> 00:16:23.090
go out and then headquarters found out and then I
356
00:16:23.110 --> 00:16:25.200
got fired. So, uh, I didn't have to go over
357
00:16:25.220 --> 00:16:27.580
the top though. So Franny is probably happy.
358
00:16:27.980 --> 00:16:29.840
Are you enjoying it too? I mean, like, cause it is,
359
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:31.899
I see the GUI just, I haven't really looked at
360
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:33.500
this game until now. It's, you know, it looks like
361
00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:37.490
that kind of card based, but otherwise it's mostly text.
362
00:16:37.789 --> 00:16:40.429
But how do you enjoy it? I've enjoyed it quite
363
00:16:40.470 --> 00:16:42.570
a bit. I played the demo for maybe like two hours.
364
00:16:42.590 --> 00:16:44.850
I've played the base game for like an hour, hour
365
00:16:44.870 --> 00:16:46.929
and a half so far. I only, yesterday was the
366
00:16:46.950 --> 00:16:49.450
first day I turned it on since I got the
367
00:16:49.470 --> 00:16:52.269
full code. So I put several hours into it. I
368
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.809
will say like, I don't know how much this game
369
00:16:54.850 --> 00:16:57.929
is going to hold me long term. I could definitely
370
00:16:57.970 --> 00:17:00.149
see it getting a little bit repetitive after time.
371
00:17:00.529 --> 00:17:04.329
But so far, I'm really enjoying my time with it.
372
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.819
And I recommend folks check it out. I mean, there's
373
00:17:06.859 --> 00:17:08.279
a demo you can download. I think it's like the
374
00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:11.160
first 15 days of the campaign is in the demo.
375
00:17:11.180 --> 00:17:14.339
So you can definitely give it a look for free
376
00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.279
if it's something that interests you. And if you think
377
00:17:16.299 --> 00:17:18.309
there's a lot there for you to kind of play
378
00:17:18.349 --> 00:17:21.460
around with, then certainly check it out. you know, it'll
379
00:17:21.500 --> 00:17:23.589
come out and well, by the time there's layers, it'll
380
00:17:23.609 --> 00:17:26.450
be out. So, oh, one other nice little wrinkle is
381
00:17:26.509 --> 00:17:29.210
like times when missions are occurring, there'll be like an
382
00:17:29.269 --> 00:17:31.319
event that comes up and you have to make a decision.
383
00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:33.910
So like one of the events that occurred, when one
384
00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:35.940
of my squads was out, was there was a change
385
00:17:35.980 --> 00:17:38.019
in coordinates. They were spotting for artillery. There was a
386
00:17:38.059 --> 00:17:40.660
change in coordinates. My squad at the time was tough.
387
00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:43.319
They were rested. Their morale was high. And so they
388
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:45.750
quickly double-checked the coordinates, realized there was an error, and
389
00:17:45.809 --> 00:17:48.390
fixed it. Another time, when their morale was not high,
390
00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:51.609
and they were very tired, they just passed the coordinates on.
391
00:17:51.630 --> 00:17:55.769
And in that case... they shelled like three of my
392
00:17:55.829 --> 00:17:58.819
own squads because the rounds fell short because the coordinates
393
00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:01.380
were wrong. If I had been assigned to that mission,
394
00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:03.460
I would have been given the choice on what to do.
395
00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:07.509
So like, if you are personally present, you influence those decisions.
396
00:18:08.029 --> 00:18:10.980
If you are not personally present, then, The squad does
397
00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.579
whatever the squad does, you know, I assume based on
398
00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:14.119
their stats.
399
00:18:14.660 --> 00:18:15.039
Okay.
400
00:18:15.339 --> 00:18:17.140
It's an interesting game. I'm enjoying my time with it,
401
00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:19.720
but the only thing I could say, and it's like
402
00:18:19.829 --> 00:18:21.619
maybe unfair to give it a knock because I haven't
403
00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:23.250
felt that way yet, but the only thing I could
404
00:18:23.269 --> 00:18:25.390
see is maybe it would get a little repetitive with time.
405
00:18:25.430 --> 00:18:25.630
Yeah.
406
00:18:25.769 --> 00:18:26.009
Okay.
407
00:18:26.289 --> 00:18:27.049
Very interesting.
408
00:18:27.990 --> 00:18:29.750
I definitely want to check this one out.
409
00:18:29.809 --> 00:18:33.349
I'll take that as my cue. I have also been
410
00:18:33.390 --> 00:18:37.069
playing as LeBong. Just stumbled upon this. Ended up being
411
00:18:37.089 --> 00:18:39.519
a fantastic little game. I've also been It's one of
412
00:18:39.539 --> 00:18:41.279
those games where I actually can play if I only
413
00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:43.960
have like 20 minutes. There is actually enough time to
414
00:18:44.019 --> 00:18:46.039
just pick up and play a quick match and then
415
00:18:46.059 --> 00:18:47.480
put the game down again if I don't have that
416
00:18:47.500 --> 00:18:50.660
much time. And I just love games where you can
417
00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:54.710
make meaningful progress in like 20 minutes. So that's got that.
418
00:18:55.190 --> 00:18:57.470
I've also checked out a game that came out, I think,
419
00:18:57.549 --> 00:19:00.769
last year. It's kind of like I would describe it
420
00:19:00.849 --> 00:19:04.299
as Europa Universalis, the beer and pretzels version. And this
421
00:19:04.339 --> 00:19:07.799
game is called Belfortis. It's kind of like Risk meets
422
00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:11.140
Europa Universalis. You're playing in, I don't even know what
423
00:19:11.180 --> 00:19:14.349
time frame, like around 1200, I think. So it's like,
424
00:19:14.390 --> 00:19:18.049
you know, the old medieval Europe setting. And you can pick,
425
00:19:18.329 --> 00:19:21.190
just like Europa Universalis, you can pick some like small
426
00:19:21.230 --> 00:19:25.029
little nation to play as. And you conquer these, I mean,
427
00:19:25.049 --> 00:19:29.230
they're much bigger than EU. There's probably like eight total
428
00:19:29.289 --> 00:19:33.319
territories in all of Great Britain and Ireland. And maybe,
429
00:19:33.380 --> 00:19:35.619
I don't know, 10 territories for all of France, you know,
430
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.259
but it's kind of like risk meets you, like I said.
431
00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:40.680
So the mechanics under it are pretty good. You know,
432
00:19:40.700 --> 00:19:44.690
you have your economy still where you're building up taxes.
433
00:19:44.769 --> 00:19:47.349
I mean, you get your taxes to buy different things.
434
00:19:47.430 --> 00:19:49.849
The troops all cost money and they have a maintenance.
435
00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:54.619
so it's really it's like for somebody who doesn't have
436
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:57.259
time to invest in a full game of you or
437
00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:59.680
if you don't have the the stamina to keep up
438
00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.200
with the constant patching and the dlc this is a
439
00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:05.099
great game um it's like it scratches that itch of
440
00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:08.859
like medieval conquest without really requiring much from the user
441
00:20:09.220 --> 00:20:12.640
just gives you fun. So that's a game I can recommend.
442
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:13.619
I enjoyed it a lot.
443
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:14.480
Wow.
444
00:20:14.900 --> 00:20:18.019
And a recommendation. That's yeah. I don't like to recommend
445
00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:21.059
things much, but if you're kind of interested, I mean,
446
00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:22.960
these days for me, if you don't have, I don't
447
00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:24.779
have that much time. So any game I can play
448
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:28.269
and just advance a little bit without investing too much time.
449
00:20:28.450 --> 00:20:30.990
That's a great thing. I also checked out Age of
450
00:20:31.029 --> 00:20:33.470
Wonders 4. This has been out for a while, but
451
00:20:33.589 --> 00:20:36.269
I just hadn't ever played it. And I finally did.
452
00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:37.529
How do you like it?
453
00:20:37.690 --> 00:20:40.130
I played Age of Wonders 3 and I really enjoyed that.
454
00:20:40.269 --> 00:20:43.150
Age of Wonders 4 to me just kind of seems samey.
455
00:20:43.549 --> 00:20:43.769
Right.
456
00:20:44.029 --> 00:20:45.990
I only put in like an hour, hour and a half,
457
00:20:46.130 --> 00:20:49.569
but it didn't capture me enough that I'm like really
458
00:20:50.089 --> 00:20:52.339
curious to play more. It's probably a really good game
459
00:20:52.670 --> 00:20:55.259
if you want, if you just have some itch to
460
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:59.319
scratch in the fantasy 4X world. But I was just
461
00:20:59.339 --> 00:21:02.140
checking it out because I remembered I had it and
462
00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:05.460
I haven't checked it out. And not otherwise inspired to
463
00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:07.640
play a Fantasy 4X game, I guess it wasn't the
464
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:09.670
best way to approach the game.
465
00:21:10.650 --> 00:21:10.849
Yeah.
466
00:21:11.089 --> 00:21:13.009
Have anybody else played these games?
467
00:21:13.349 --> 00:21:13.569
No.
468
00:21:13.650 --> 00:21:16.529
I feel like you've mentioned them before, though, and they
469
00:21:16.569 --> 00:21:17.789
did seem interesting to me.
470
00:21:18.390 --> 00:21:21.400
Well, Age of Wonders is really popular. Age of Wonders
471
00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:24.160
4 is Paradox. I don't know if Paradox did 3.
472
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:25.240
I mean, Paradox published.
473
00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:25.839
Yeah.
474
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:27.819
But it kind of has a little bit of a
475
00:21:27.859 --> 00:21:30.799
DLC trickle as well. but I don't think it's as,
476
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:34.000
it's mostly like new factions. It's not like as disruptive
477
00:21:34.180 --> 00:21:37.069
as like changing all the core mechanics or something. And
478
00:21:37.089 --> 00:21:38.650
those kind of, it reminds me a little bit of
479
00:21:38.690 --> 00:21:41.450
like Total War, Warhammer, where you have a lot of
480
00:21:41.490 --> 00:21:43.609
DLC for all the different factions, but you could play
481
00:21:43.630 --> 00:21:44.450
the base game fine.
482
00:21:44.470 --> 00:21:45.690
Oh yeah, I can see that.
483
00:21:45.829 --> 00:21:47.990
But one last thing, and you guys have played this,
484
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.599
is I recently returned to Shogun 2 Total War.
485
00:21:51.619 --> 00:21:52.839
Ooh, banger.
486
00:21:53.339 --> 00:21:58.220
And I surprisingly did not get engrossed as it engrossed
487
00:21:58.460 --> 00:22:00.519
in it as much as I thought. And basically what
488
00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:01.839
I was thinking the whole time is, you know, I
489
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:05.099
think I would enjoy playing Total War Warhammer more. Maybe
490
00:22:05.299 --> 00:22:08.200
it's just for me has passed that threshold. Like every
491
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:10.440
now and then there's the game where it was like, OK,
492
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.859
five years ago, but now and there was maybe OK
493
00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:15.099
two years ago, but then suddenly like it just passes
494
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.920
the magical threshold of like, oh, it's just it just
495
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:18.940
didn't age well enough.
496
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:24.619
Yeah, I think you need more like flashing going on
497
00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:28.099
like in Warhammer. like, you know, there's always a new
498
00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:31.460
event happening in Warhammer Total War, like, you know, that
499
00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:33.599
pops up on your screen so you can clap a
500
00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:34.059
little bit.
501
00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:36.180
Yeah, Tortuga, have you been spending too much time on
502
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:37.099
TikTok lately?
503
00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:37.900
Yeah, that's right.
504
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:38.700
Yeah.
505
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:42.269
I have, like, this is maybe a topic for a
506
00:22:42.289 --> 00:22:44.869
different podcast, but just, I have thought about it, because
507
00:22:44.890 --> 00:22:47.190
it struck me, it was so odd to me, in
508
00:22:47.230 --> 00:22:49.579
the same way you guys are probably saying, essentially, that, oh,
509
00:22:49.589 --> 00:22:52.470
this is weird. It was weird to me, too, because I, like,
510
00:22:52.490 --> 00:22:54.109
started playing it, and I was like, wow, you know what,
511
00:22:54.150 --> 00:22:55.690
I think I just want to go, I think I'm
512
00:22:55.710 --> 00:22:57.609
not going to finish this campaign I'm just going to
513
00:22:57.630 --> 00:22:59.829
go back to Warhammer but I think the reason is
514
00:22:59.869 --> 00:23:03.349
that Warhammer offers this like from a game mechanic standpoint
515
00:23:03.390 --> 00:23:08.000
if you put history aside it offers like such incredible
516
00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:11.440
asymmetry between the factions that you just can't get that
517
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:14.859
in a historical game because guess what the metagame in
518
00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:18.740
history everyone's following it you know you just don't like
519
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:23.259
in Japan you maybe one team has like slightly better archers.
520
00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:26.240
One team has slightly better cavalry, but Shogun's the worst
521
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.880
in that respect too. Like with unit diversity, right? Yeah.
522
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:32.769
And so it's just basically like every battle is a
523
00:23:32.809 --> 00:23:35.789
mirror image and that's just so not the case in
524
00:23:35.849 --> 00:23:38.809
Warhammer where like every different faction you fight against is
525
00:23:38.829 --> 00:23:41.630
like wild, just like, I mean, it's completely fantasy, right?
526
00:23:41.670 --> 00:23:43.990
So you can just make them as absurd as you want.
527
00:23:44.630 --> 00:23:46.970
And I find that that's pretty interesting, not just from
528
00:23:47.009 --> 00:23:51.130
like a visual standpoint, but also from like a, tactical
529
00:23:51.190 --> 00:23:56.089
standpoint like you have many different um rock paper scissor combinations.
530
00:23:55.890 --> 00:23:58.710
I get what you're saying and i like the battles
531
00:23:58.910 --> 00:24:02.170
and warhammer one thing i i just did not like
532
00:24:02.269 --> 00:24:05.789
was the campaign map and the ui the there's so
533
00:24:05.910 --> 00:24:09.750
much there's so many ui elements and total war warhammer
534
00:24:09.849 --> 00:24:12.970
that just look thrown together like it looks really cheap
535
00:24:13.089 --> 00:24:15.130
it looks like a mobile game that's all i could
536
00:24:15.170 --> 00:24:17.759
think of when playing it i was actually kind of
537
00:24:17.779 --> 00:24:21.019
kept taking me out of it but Anyway, a topic
538
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:22.180
for another time, I guess.
539
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:24.660
Yeah, interesting feedback. And I didn't want to spend too
540
00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:26.839
much time on it either, but it's just something that
541
00:24:27.140 --> 00:24:29.220
I was playing Total War Shogun, I mean Shogun 2,
542
00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:32.509
and it's been always on my top three games of
543
00:24:32.650 --> 00:24:35.309
Total War. Yeah. But I don't know what happened.
544
00:24:35.450 --> 00:24:37.710
That's why I'm shocked by this news.
545
00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:39.809
I don't know, maybe it's just a different Tortuga.
546
00:24:40.549 --> 00:24:40.950
Who knows?
547
00:24:41.230 --> 00:24:42.289
Sad day.
548
00:24:42.329 --> 00:24:45.130
When did Warhammer come out relative to... 2016 was the
549
00:24:45.150 --> 00:24:48.710
first one, I think. Compared to Shogun.
550
00:24:48.750 --> 00:24:52.970
Shogun was like, what, 2013, 2012? Maybe a bit.
551
00:24:53.369 --> 00:24:56.190
My thought was at some point, I feel like Creative
552
00:24:56.210 --> 00:24:59.690
Assembly has ditched the slow pace of the earlier Total
553
00:24:59.710 --> 00:25:02.200
War games in favor of, your battle can be done
554
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:06.119
in five minutes. Maybe not five minutes, but it definitely
555
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:09.660
feels like in the later era of Total War games,
556
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:11.259
they've vastly speeded up.
557
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:12.420
Yeah, I can agree with that.
558
00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:14.789
Made it a little bit more arcadey, and I wonder
559
00:25:14.829 --> 00:25:17.390
if that's something that's appealing to you, Tortuga, is just
560
00:25:17.430 --> 00:25:20.910
the pace maybe is a little bit more immediate, especially
561
00:25:20.930 --> 00:25:22.569
if you don't have as much time to dive into
562
00:25:22.589 --> 00:25:23.680
some of these games sometimes.
563
00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:27.299
I mean, I auto-resolve tactical battles probably about half the time. So,
564
00:25:27.500 --> 00:25:30.019
I mean, although that's definitely part of the interest for me,
565
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.750
I've always been... more of a strategy player than a
566
00:25:33.769 --> 00:25:37.589
tactical player. So even from that perspective, like the different sides,
567
00:25:37.609 --> 00:25:41.569
the different factions, the economies, differences in Warhammer.
568
00:25:41.809 --> 00:25:44.410
Speaking of Warhammer Total War, just real quick, like I said,
569
00:25:44.430 --> 00:25:46.819
I was at Gamescom and they had the demo for
570
00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:48.039
40k Total War.
571
00:25:48.700 --> 00:25:49.319
Oh, okay.
572
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:51.660
Please tell us. Oh, well, I was like, yeah, let me,
573
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:54.460
let me go and play it. I get in line.
574
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:56.140
I look at the sign in front of me, and
575
00:25:56.180 --> 00:25:58.519
it said, like, three hours from this point, and I
576
00:25:58.539 --> 00:26:02.880
turned around. Oh, God. Yeah, I was not going to wait.
577
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:04.960
You got to schedule all that stuff ahead of time.
578
00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:07.509
Can you, like, get on a list before you show up?
579
00:26:07.509 --> 00:26:09.009
Can you start flaunting your credentials?
580
00:26:09.029 --> 00:26:11.230
Yeah, I mean, hey, listen, we pulled some strings to
581
00:26:11.269 --> 00:26:14.990
get Single Malt Strategy a press key for there. So
582
00:26:15.470 --> 00:26:16.369
you got to be.
583
00:26:16.430 --> 00:26:17.950
I don't think we pulled any strings.
584
00:26:18.089 --> 00:26:18.549
I mean.
585
00:26:21.589 --> 00:26:25.309
How long was the string that you pulled there?
586
00:26:25.490 --> 00:26:27.789
Did you let everybody know that you were there representing
587
00:26:27.849 --> 00:26:30.289
Single Malt Strategy? No, I didn't.
588
00:26:30.430 --> 00:26:34.710
I should have, though. That's a great idea. But I
589
00:26:34.750 --> 00:26:38.170
was just like, yeah, I'm not waiting for that. So,
590
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:41.140
I didn't play it. But I just thought it was amazing.
591
00:26:41.259 --> 00:26:48.019
Their whole booth was pretty cool. Obviously, Sega, Creative Assembly,
592
00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:51.910
have a lot of money to do that sort of thing. Anyway,
593
00:26:51.970 --> 00:26:54.430
what's our main topic for today?
594
00:26:54.849 --> 00:27:00.730
Well, speaking of Warhammer and this really uncovered part of warfare, yeah,
595
00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:02.690
I think what we're going to cover today is something
596
00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:05.779
more like what wars do you think you'd like to
597
00:27:05.819 --> 00:27:08.440
see more games in? Or maybe TSU, what was the
598
00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:09.400
better way of wording that?
599
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:12.960
That was about right. We have a million World War
600
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:15.359
II games out there, right? What are conflicts that you
601
00:27:15.380 --> 00:27:18.279
would like to game more in that you don't get
602
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:18.839
covered as much?
603
00:27:18.950 --> 00:27:22.009
And I think Tortuga wanted to talk about games that
604
00:27:22.089 --> 00:27:24.569
do cover those lesser-known conflicts.
605
00:27:24.670 --> 00:27:28.339
Well, okay, I'll just start us off then. The first
606
00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:29.759
thing that came to mind, because I've been kind of
607
00:27:29.779 --> 00:27:34.619
focused on naval combat in the early 1900s, so there's
608
00:27:34.700 --> 00:27:37.400
two things that came to mind for that. One was
609
00:27:37.700 --> 00:27:41.299
the Spanish-American War, and I know that there's pretty much
610
00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:41.849
nobody who.
611
00:27:42.069 --> 00:27:43.390
Red Dead Redemption 2.
612
00:27:43.390 --> 00:27:43.569
What?
613
00:27:44.509 --> 00:27:46.640
Oh, yeah, okay, Spanish, sorry, there was a.
614
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:49.079
There's some Spanish-American war in that?
615
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:50.119
Yeah, dude.
616
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:52.400
You go, I guess, kind of.
617
00:27:53.539 --> 00:27:54.920
Possibly, yeah.
618
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:56.849
Well, the one I was thinking of is there's a
619
00:27:57.210 --> 00:28:01.569
dedicated hardcore naval war game called Clad in Iron. It's
620
00:28:01.609 --> 00:28:03.390
essentially kind of like the Steam in Iron.
621
00:28:03.410 --> 00:28:05.269
Man, I know these games.
622
00:28:05.589 --> 00:28:08.579
Yeah. Anyway, I know that it exists. I think I've
623
00:28:08.660 --> 00:28:11.019
played it, but only for like an hour because the
624
00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:14.759
UI was difficult. And that's coming from a person who
625
00:28:15.210 --> 00:28:16.450
plays things like rule the waves.
626
00:28:16.569 --> 00:28:21.049
So yeah, these are, these, these games are, it's made by,
627
00:28:21.069 --> 00:28:25.319
I want to say a couple of Russian guys. And, uh,
628
00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:28.339
they also did the whole iron clad series. I don't
629
00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:32.670
remember why they switched to this clad and iron naming convention, but,
630
00:28:32.980 --> 00:28:37.380
But they have a lot of games covering lesser-known conflicts
631
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:40.299
with that era of ships. It's kind of interesting.
632
00:28:40.339 --> 00:28:43.220
Are these the developers who are putting out the game
633
00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:45.420
Steam and Iron, Battle of Port Arthur?
634
00:28:45.940 --> 00:28:48.650
Steam and Iron is different. That's actually by the same developers,
635
00:28:48.890 --> 00:28:53.309
the same publisher originally, not Slytherin. But that's the same
636
00:28:53.329 --> 00:28:56.349
group as the Rule the Waves folks. So the lineage
637
00:28:56.589 --> 00:28:59.319
of Rule the Waves was... It was first Steam and Iron,
638
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.869
just a scenario tactical battle. And then they decided to
639
00:29:03.029 --> 00:29:05.490
add this strategic wrapper around it, and then it became
640
00:29:05.549 --> 00:29:08.430
Roll the Waves. But Steam and Iron, like there's Steam
641
00:29:08.450 --> 00:29:11.660
and Iron Russo-Japanese War. That's another war I had that
642
00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:13.569
I don't think is covered. you know, very much.
643
00:29:13.730 --> 00:29:15.509
I need to look because the Steam and Iron Battle
644
00:29:15.529 --> 00:29:17.170
of Port Arthur is like 3D ships.
645
00:29:17.230 --> 00:29:18.369
It's a 3D game, yeah.
646
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.140
Oh, just kidding. So it's the same name, but okay,
647
00:29:22.180 --> 00:29:23.019
that's crazy.
648
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:24.460
Yeah, some confusion there.
649
00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:26.779
Thanks for correcting me. I didn't know.
650
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:28.839
This game is not yet out, by the way, I guess.
651
00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:30.039
I know nothing about this then.
652
00:29:30.220 --> 00:29:35.569
Disclaimer, but... I think we mentioned this one on a
653
00:29:35.609 --> 00:29:38.029
previous podcast, the Steam and Iron game.
654
00:29:38.309 --> 00:29:38.990
Yeah, I think so.
655
00:29:39.029 --> 00:29:42.490
And it was kind of like, your honorable mentions and
656
00:29:42.930 --> 00:29:45.549
potentially coming out in 2026 kind of deal.
657
00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:48.609
Speaking of the game covering a lesser known conflict or
658
00:29:49.220 --> 00:29:52.960
Why not? It's pretty interesting. But no, these Totem Games guys,
659
00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:55.400
I mean, they did, like, an American Civil War game.
660
00:29:55.539 --> 00:29:57.960
They got all sorts of stuff.
661
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:02.920
But, again, I bought, like, all of them on a sale, and, like, you, Tortuga,
662
00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:05.220
I boot them up and then look at that UI,
663
00:30:05.259 --> 00:30:09.440
and it's, like, it's not very intuitive or great.
664
00:30:09.569 --> 00:30:11.329
Yeah, and there's not a lot of content out there,
665
00:30:11.369 --> 00:30:13.710
so my first, like, fallback if I open a game
666
00:30:13.750 --> 00:30:16.029
and I can't figure it out is, okay, let's see
667
00:30:16.049 --> 00:30:18.250
someone else play it. And I think there was... like
668
00:30:18.430 --> 00:30:20.950
one video on it and the person playing it was
669
00:30:21.009 --> 00:30:23.910
also like not narrating what they were doing. And it
670
00:30:23.950 --> 00:30:26.069
was like, well, this is just basically the same as
671
00:30:26.150 --> 00:30:28.450
me fumbling through as ever as someone else fumbling through
672
00:30:28.490 --> 00:30:30.289
as it didn't, it helped like not at all.
673
00:30:30.410 --> 00:30:30.670
Yeah.
674
00:30:30.789 --> 00:30:32.869
Yeah. But anyways, I mean, so that's just my way
675
00:30:32.890 --> 00:30:35.299
of viewing this topic was kind of thing about like,
676
00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:37.519
what are these games that, what are these wars that
677
00:30:37.539 --> 00:30:39.099
just don't get a lot of coverage? And I think that,
678
00:30:39.460 --> 00:30:42.980
But for the Russo-Japanese War, there was this whole land combat.
679
00:30:43.099 --> 00:30:45.160
I don't know if anybody's done like the land combat
680
00:30:45.180 --> 00:30:47.279
for that one, but I believe so. I just can't
681
00:30:47.299 --> 00:30:49.940
remember the title that would have covered it.
682
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:52.619
Wasn't it just a big siege? There were a whole
683
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:53.420
lot going on there.
684
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:56.289
Yeah, there was a little bit more movement. But yeah,
685
00:30:56.329 --> 00:30:58.250
you're thinking about the big siege of Port Arthur where
686
00:30:58.269 --> 00:31:03.190
the Japanese just threw guys at the fortifications until the
687
00:31:03.269 --> 00:31:06.450
Russians basically ran out of ammo or got run over.
688
00:31:06.470 --> 00:31:06.549
Yeah.
689
00:31:07.410 --> 00:31:08.210
Yeah.
690
00:31:08.650 --> 00:31:10.970
Yeah, I think there was a push beyond that, too. Yeah,
691
00:31:11.509 --> 00:31:13.650
like actual front conflict.
692
00:31:13.829 --> 00:31:17.339
It's so it's so interesting. My setting I've chosen is
693
00:31:17.380 --> 00:31:21.039
very similar. Did you want to save the games that
694
00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:24.400
cover this era till the end, Tortuga? Or what are you?
695
00:31:24.740 --> 00:31:26.880
No, I just I'm naming them. So like Steam and
696
00:31:26.980 --> 00:31:30.220
Iron Russo Japanese War is the one that covers that
697
00:31:30.539 --> 00:31:32.920
just from a naval perspective. And then I had the
698
00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:36.319
Spanish-American War. I had Clad in Iron. I also want
699
00:31:36.339 --> 00:31:38.339
to give... So I have two ways of viewing things,
700
00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:40.640
by the way, because I think that there's a game
701
00:31:40.660 --> 00:31:43.599
which covers it from a scenario standpoint or the whole
702
00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:45.859
game is dedicated to it. But I also tried to
703
00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:50.480
leave asterisks in here for games that kind of cover it.
704
00:31:50.980 --> 00:31:55.190
And like Victoria 3, for example, you can kind of
705
00:31:55.269 --> 00:31:59.430
simulate the Spanish-American War in Victoria 3. That's actually the
706
00:31:59.509 --> 00:32:03.099
beauty of a lot of these sandbox games grand strategy
707
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:06.059
games or even like scenario making games like sea power
708
00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:07.859
right a lot of the titles a lot of the
709
00:32:07.900 --> 00:32:10.160
wars that i'm going to mention here i feel like
710
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:13.369
you can represent in some of these games just because
711
00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:16.430
they have such a fantastic scenario editor or because their
712
00:32:16.609 --> 00:32:20.190
sandbox allows it so i'm trying to mentioned both you
713
00:32:20.230 --> 00:32:21.309
want to go wolf though you had.
714
00:32:21.250 --> 00:32:23.539
Some yeah sure i mean speaking of sea power i
715
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:25.640
just thought of this like a game that's going to
716
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.180
be covering kind of a lesser known conflict they're going
717
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:31.059
to be doing the falklands uh pretty soon adding the
718
00:32:31.099 --> 00:32:35.200
royal navy and the argentinians and i think that's uh
719
00:32:35.569 --> 00:32:38.450
something that hasn't really been done too much i don't.
720
00:32:38.390 --> 00:32:40.970
Yeah command modern operations i have that one on here
721
00:32:41.009 --> 00:32:44.130
too falkland war i think command modern operations has that
722
00:32:44.539 --> 00:32:47.220
which is not surprising. They probably have a scenario for.
723
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:48.259
Like, they have everything.
724
00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:49.359
Exactly. Yeah.
725
00:32:49.380 --> 00:32:52.029
There's another game like that where it's, you know, it's
726
00:32:52.109 --> 00:32:54.410
a scenario generator. So you can pretty much model whatever
727
00:32:54.430 --> 00:32:54.809
you want.
728
00:32:54.990 --> 00:32:59.019
A setting or a theater of, Of war, which I
729
00:32:59.059 --> 00:33:03.349
think would make for an interesting war game or simulation game, really,
730
00:33:03.390 --> 00:33:06.990
like a tank sim or a flight sim, is Kalkangol.
731
00:33:07.029 --> 00:33:13.500
These are like the Soviet-Japanese border skirmishes in 1940. Actually,
732
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:17.640
a bit earlier, 1939. First off, there were a lot
733
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:22.220
of tanks and aircraft committed to these fights and the
734
00:33:22.289 --> 00:33:26.940
parity was of these earlier Soviet aircraft and these earlier
735
00:33:26.980 --> 00:33:31.029
Japanese aircraft, it's pretty interesting. I think it would make
736
00:33:31.069 --> 00:33:33.839
for a pretty awesome flight sim. Yeah, it'd be.
737
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:37.079
Really interesting tank sim when you're just fighting on barren steppes.
738
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:42.539
Exactly. And especially in a lot of these relatively rinky-dink
739
00:33:42.619 --> 00:33:45.619
Japanese and Soviet tanks. It was a lot of lighter
740
00:33:45.740 --> 00:33:47.740
Soviet tanks that were sent over there at the time.
741
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:50.500
I think it'd be pretty interesting, and I don't think
742
00:33:50.539 --> 00:33:54.009
there's a single game that covers any of that. I mean,
743
00:33:54.049 --> 00:33:58.720
that's just... kind of a forgotten battle here, especially in
744
00:33:58.759 --> 00:33:59.200
the West.
745
00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:02.259
Yeah, I mean, unless you decide to bracket in something
746
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:03.099
like Hearts of Iron.
747
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:03.740
You're right.
748
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:06.039
Sure, yeah, yeah, I guess.
749
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:06.960
Not directly.
750
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.360
I mean, from a strategic level, that's the closest thing
751
00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:11.500
I can think of. This would be interesting to see
752
00:34:11.659 --> 00:34:14.800
in something like Gates of Hell. Like, I think Gates
753
00:34:14.860 --> 00:34:17.820
of Hell could do something like this pretty well and
754
00:34:17.860 --> 00:34:21.000
would be a... An easy way to introduce the Japanese,
755
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:21.679
for example.
756
00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:23.119
That's a good recommendation.
757
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:24.510
Send that to the developers.
758
00:34:24.530 --> 00:34:26.510
Part of the reason why we're talking about these games,
759
00:34:26.530 --> 00:34:30.329
these wars, is because they're not as popular. I don't
760
00:34:30.369 --> 00:34:32.610
know if you'd get, like, that sounds really interesting. I
761
00:34:33.150 --> 00:34:35.170
wonder if it was put down on a list versus
762
00:34:35.210 --> 00:34:37.449
something like, I don't know if they already cover the
763
00:34:37.510 --> 00:34:39.480
Winter War or whatever. I just imagine that the votes
764
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:42.579
would swarm towards Winter War over this, even though it's
765
00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:43.400
really interesting.
766
00:34:43.420 --> 00:34:46.679
Yeah. Yeah. You know, and Gates of Hell did do
767
00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:47.340
Winter War.
768
00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:49.800
Well, there you go. They chose not to do this.
769
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:51.659
They did Winter War. I'm not surprised.
770
00:34:51.780 --> 00:34:55.219
Winter War fits naturally with a lot of the assets
771
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:56.119
they already had.
772
00:34:56.179 --> 00:34:56.420
True.
773
00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:57.079
As well.
774
00:34:57.659 --> 00:35:00.719
But, like, for a flight sim, I mean, you look
775
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:04.030
at this theater. There's a reason no one's done it.
776
00:35:05.110 --> 00:35:07.530
Isle 2, you know, the earlier games, like, you know,
777
00:35:07.550 --> 00:35:11.110
Forgotten Battles and all that stuff. did do, like, the
778
00:35:11.170 --> 00:35:14.309
latter days when the Japanese, when the Soviets went back
779
00:35:14.369 --> 00:35:16.469
into Manchuria at the very end of the war. They
780
00:35:16.510 --> 00:35:19.289
did an expansion kind of covering that, which, again, that
781
00:35:19.329 --> 00:35:21.989
would be interesting as well, although it's kind of just
782
00:35:22.030 --> 00:35:23.309
a curb-stopping, so.
783
00:35:23.690 --> 00:35:26.929
There was a Strategic Command DLC that looked at the
784
00:35:26.969 --> 00:35:28.710
Chinese theater, for what it's worth.
785
00:35:28.750 --> 00:35:30.530
Yeah, and that was another thing.
786
00:35:30.690 --> 00:35:33.989
And also an Order of Battle for it as well.
787
00:35:34.030 --> 00:35:36.750
I was talking about Kalkan Gul. Yeah, there is a
788
00:35:36.789 --> 00:35:41.039
Kalkan Gul Order of Battle... scenario but but yes i
789
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:41.679
i hear you.
790
00:35:41.739 --> 00:35:45.400
Oh okay okay hey that's that's pretty much it for
791
00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:47.739
me like as far as other games that kind of
792
00:35:47.780 --> 00:35:49.900
covered these lesser known topics i was trying to think
793
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:52.599
about it and all i can think about is uh
794
00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:56.590
gates of hell like uh and the winter war i
795
00:35:56.630 --> 00:35:59.510
mean like that's uh we all know about the winter
796
00:35:59.550 --> 00:36:02.929
war is popular in this you know you know war
797
00:36:02.969 --> 00:36:06.670
gaming niche but I don't know if everyday Americans know
798
00:36:07.010 --> 00:36:09.909
about the Winter War. They're also doing the invasion of Poland.
799
00:36:10.250 --> 00:36:12.449
You don't see that too often in video games either.
800
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:15.199
The invasion of Poland, is that like the 1920s invasion
801
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:16.219
of Poland?
802
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:21.159
That would be another interesting Soviet-Polish war.
803
00:36:21.380 --> 00:36:23.699
Yes, that's the one I was thinking of. I actually
804
00:36:23.719 --> 00:36:25.480
had that on my notes, that that would be an
805
00:36:25.699 --> 00:36:26.960
interesting war to see.
806
00:36:27.139 --> 00:36:31.510
That'd be pretty interesting, but no. Someone actually did an
807
00:36:31.690 --> 00:36:35.619
IL-2 gray battle scenario. with that because they have all
808
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:37.909
the world war one aircraft they kind of cobbled it
809
00:36:37.929 --> 00:36:41.369
together but no this is you know this a little
810
00:36:41.389 --> 00:36:44.750
known conflict that started in 1939 september.
811
00:36:44.570 --> 00:36:46.969
1st yeah vietnam war who's in charge of that one.
812
00:36:47.570 --> 00:36:52.469
Yeah there's this little country called germany the they wanted
813
00:36:52.489 --> 00:36:54.869
to be bigger that's right they wanted to be bigger
814
00:36:54.929 --> 00:36:56.650
they wanted to be bigger Wolf.
815
00:36:56.530 --> 00:36:58.070
Only knows about this because he just went there.
816
00:36:58.230 --> 00:36:58.570
Yeah.
817
00:36:58.590 --> 00:36:59.550
Otherwise, you wouldn't have heard of it.
818
00:36:59.949 --> 00:37:00.849
I went there.
819
00:37:00.949 --> 00:37:01.690
I read a plaque.
820
00:37:01.750 --> 00:37:03.690
I was like, oh, my God, all this happened here.
821
00:37:03.710 --> 00:37:07.190
A little historical plaque. Historical plaque.
822
00:37:07.190 --> 00:37:08.050
502.
823
00:37:08.050 --> 00:37:09.030
Yeah.
824
00:37:09.050 --> 00:37:13.469
It's like, oh, wow. It was an eye opening trip.
825
00:37:13.829 --> 00:37:16.789
What about the Korean War? Is that considered low coverage
826
00:37:16.829 --> 00:37:20.090
or high coverage? I mean, it's pretty low, I think.
827
00:37:20.269 --> 00:37:22.769
The last podcast, we had IL-2 Korea, right?
828
00:37:22.789 --> 00:37:24.920
Yeah, I guess that is low coverage. I guess I
829
00:37:24.929 --> 00:37:26.260
didn't want to rehash that too much.
830
00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:29.239
There's a John Tiller Korean War game, but I would
831
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:31.019
agree that generally it's low coverage.
832
00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:33.880
I mean, there's a few that cover it from my perspective,
833
00:37:34.179 --> 00:37:37.519
but it's not well covered. But if you remember War Game,
834
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:39.989
Red Dragon did this, right? They actually had a whole
835
00:37:40.030 --> 00:37:42.079
campaign set. In the 50s?
836
00:37:43.050 --> 00:37:47.309
No, that was modern day. That was Cold War era,
837
00:37:47.349 --> 00:37:49.230
maybe not modern day, but that was Cold War era.
838
00:37:49.329 --> 00:37:51.760
Yeah, so that wasn't it then. But okay, I do
839
00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:55.639
have one example which is relevant. Supreme Ruler, the game,
840
00:37:55.699 --> 00:37:59.219
it has a Cold War start, which basically the... I mean,
841
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:03.000
this is, although it's more like sandbox, they have a
842
00:38:03.059 --> 00:38:08.789
specific start. The Cold War start actually starts in 1949,
843
00:38:08.789 --> 00:38:12.659
and immediately the Korean War begins, and it's definitely... The
844
00:38:12.699 --> 00:38:15.670
immediate focus, if you're playing as any of the Western powers,
845
00:38:15.730 --> 00:38:18.889
is to go ride to the rescue of the South Koreans.
846
00:38:19.869 --> 00:38:22.309
Or versus, you know, you can play as obviously the
847
00:38:22.329 --> 00:38:24.590
other side if you want to. But yeah, that does
848
00:38:24.630 --> 00:38:27.489
a really good job of modeling that. And another game
849
00:38:27.530 --> 00:38:30.829
which covers a lot of these little wars that we,
850
00:38:31.230 --> 00:38:32.710
I don't know if we played this together or not,
851
00:38:32.750 --> 00:38:37.320
but ICBM Escalation has a campaign. And one of the missions,
852
00:38:37.539 --> 00:38:41.550
one of the campaign missions is the Korean War. And
853
00:38:41.610 --> 00:38:44.679
it's done really well. Actually, I think that Supreme Ruler
854
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:49.260
and ICBM Escalation both did the Korean conflict pretty well.
855
00:38:49.900 --> 00:38:55.260
Considering that Supreme Ruler is a global sandbox and ICBM Escalation,
856
00:38:55.389 --> 00:38:57.170
you would think of it as just like a nuclear.
857
00:38:58.050 --> 00:39:01.269
But in that game, you can fight with the ground
858
00:39:01.309 --> 00:39:05.329
forces and it's pretty good. I would say it's an
859
00:39:05.510 --> 00:39:06.929
awesome strategy game.
860
00:39:07.130 --> 00:39:07.590
Interesting.
861
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:09.480
Yeah, I don't think I ever played it, but there
862
00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:13.019
was Theater of War, which always reminded me of Combat Mission,
863
00:39:13.619 --> 00:39:16.139
but maybe a little bit more approachable. They had a
864
00:39:16.219 --> 00:39:19.659
Korean war game, but I don't have anything else to
865
00:39:19.699 --> 00:39:21.110
say on it other than that existed.
866
00:39:21.309 --> 00:39:24.130
It'd be interesting to have a Korean war first-person shooter.
867
00:39:24.170 --> 00:39:29.550
I know it's not really the main topic of this podcast, but...
868
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:31.179
that would be pretty interesting to play.
869
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:34.710
There isn't one. I'm actually surprised because I'm thinking about it.
870
00:39:34.739 --> 00:39:37.159
I'm like, no, surely there must have been, but maybe not.
871
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:39.840
Call of Duty touched on Vietnam. I can't think of
872
00:39:39.900 --> 00:39:44.630
anything that's done Korea as an FPS. Maybe as a
873
00:39:44.690 --> 00:39:47.969
side setting for something, but I don't know.
874
00:39:48.469 --> 00:39:49.329
That's surprising to me.
875
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:51.760
It is the forgotten war after all.
876
00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:53.760
I mean, the only thing I can think of about
877
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:55.460
Korea is flight simulators.
878
00:39:56.489 --> 00:39:59.030
Because it's got that almost like World War I sort
879
00:39:59.050 --> 00:40:00.210
of romanticized.
880
00:40:01.309 --> 00:40:01.389
Yeah.
881
00:40:01.530 --> 00:40:04.110
Nothing good's happening on the ground, so let's find somewhere
882
00:40:04.130 --> 00:40:05.929
we can write about it. But we've talked about this before.
883
00:40:05.949 --> 00:40:10.010
My last interesting conflict would be like the South African
884
00:40:10.070 --> 00:40:10.710
border war.
885
00:40:10.730 --> 00:40:12.730
Oh, interesting.
886
00:40:13.150 --> 00:40:17.820
Very long-spanning conflict. You have lots of factions in play here.
887
00:40:18.489 --> 00:40:22.909
from even, like, Cubans coming in, so kind of interesting
888
00:40:22.949 --> 00:40:25.710
stuff there. That could be to use lots of various
889
00:40:25.750 --> 00:40:29.010
aircraft and all that Cold War equipment, just a different
890
00:40:29.110 --> 00:40:31.909
setting than, you know, being set in Fulda or something.
891
00:40:32.170 --> 00:40:33.150
That one's really obscure.
892
00:40:33.409 --> 00:40:38.050
Yep, and that's why there's... I mean, I guess I'm
893
00:40:38.070 --> 00:40:39.909
surprised there's not war games on it, but.
894
00:40:40.329 --> 00:40:42.530
Well, I guess I'll go next, and I don't know
895
00:40:42.550 --> 00:40:43.949
if I have too much to talk about, but I
896
00:40:43.989 --> 00:40:46.730
was thinking on... Somewhat recently, we've.
897
00:40:46.570 --> 00:40:49.840
Had a couple... us pacific.
898
00:40:49.380 --> 00:40:52.760
Submarine games we had silent shark which you've played wolf
899
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:55.719
and there was silent depth 2 pacific which kind of
900
00:40:55.739 --> 00:40:57.510
didn't really go anywhere i don't know if it's ever
901
00:40:57.530 --> 00:41:00.130
going to go go anywhere but there was you know
902
00:41:00.150 --> 00:41:05.469
a minor attempt to have some us pacific submarine games
903
00:41:05.530 --> 00:41:08.750
out there so it'd be nice if we had you
904
00:41:08.789 --> 00:41:11.190
know something more along those lines.
905
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:13.780
I mean besides silent hunter 4 i mean there.
906
00:41:13.699 --> 00:41:15.940
Is silent hunter 4 but it's game old how old
907
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:16.960
is that game you know.
908
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:22.639
Yeah No, I agree. It's funny. I was talking to
909
00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:26.539
some game developers about this. It's like American stuff does
910
00:41:26.699 --> 00:41:28.840
really well and sells well. And I think the one
911
00:41:28.900 --> 00:41:33.780
exception with that is 442 submarines. You know, German U-boats
912
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:38.159
just hold this position and popular culture compared to the
913
00:41:38.219 --> 00:41:39.199
American fleet boats.
914
00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:40.960
But I agree.
915
00:41:41.059 --> 00:41:45.289
I'd love to see another really well done American fleet
916
00:41:45.329 --> 00:41:49.360
boat game. Mm-hmm. And then maybe have like a Japanese
917
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:53.139
submarine spinoff. The problem with the Japanese stuff is the
918
00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:57.019
same problem with the Japanese aircraft is lack of documentation
919
00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:59.550
for any of it. That's why I think Silent Shark
920
00:41:59.570 --> 00:42:02.429
could probably do it because it's 2D. You don't need
921
00:42:02.449 --> 00:42:07.769
to model a whole 3D Japanese interior. Yeah. But yeah.
922
00:42:08.329 --> 00:42:10.510
And let's see, what else was I thinking about?
923
00:42:10.869 --> 00:42:13.949
You know, I'm really mostly interested in the more modern stuff,
924
00:42:14.050 --> 00:42:17.590
but there has been times recently where I was kind
925
00:42:17.610 --> 00:42:20.530
of interested in some of the Napoleonic warfare and there's,
926
00:42:20.590 --> 00:42:22.769
you know, there's plenty of stuff like that, but I
927
00:42:22.809 --> 00:42:26.849
don't know, American revolution, um, or any sort of like
928
00:42:27.230 --> 00:42:30.329
early America and where's the French and Indian wars, you know, game.
929
00:42:30.389 --> 00:42:30.630
Right.
930
00:42:31.010 --> 00:42:33.739
But I don't know if those are really that interesting.
931
00:42:33.800 --> 00:42:36.400
I think I would probably think back to more games
932
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:39.199
that would be like a Tortuga mentioned with Shogun. I
933
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:42.300
think it'd be interesting to have more Japanese warring States
934
00:42:42.699 --> 00:42:47.889
or China, uh, mongols korea and the mongols things like that.
935
00:42:48.190 --> 00:42:52.329
I'm with you there i'm honestly surprised some chinese game
936
00:42:52.369 --> 00:42:55.449
development studio hasn't seen total war and been like let's
937
00:42:55.489 --> 00:42:59.150
do that but here you know they might have it
938
00:42:59.190 --> 00:43:02.030
just might not have been localized to european or not
939
00:43:02.090 --> 00:43:05.130
european to english language yeah maybe i i kind of
940
00:43:05.190 --> 00:43:08.369
doubt it though i feel like that would have made waves.
941
00:43:08.269 --> 00:43:11.150
You did all that work man you would the localizations
942
00:43:11.210 --> 00:43:13.309
like the one of the easiest things to do.
943
00:43:13.329 --> 00:43:13.530
Yeah.
944
00:43:13.550 --> 00:43:16.389
There are a lot of, I mean, games calm this
945
00:43:16.429 --> 00:43:22.460
year was, uh, there's tons of Chinese developed games. Like they're, they're,
946
00:43:22.699 --> 00:43:23.480
they're coming in hot.
947
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:25.940
I'm ready for that.
948
00:43:25.980 --> 00:43:26.440
What's the game?
949
00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:28.440
It's like 14 years of war or whatever.
950
00:43:28.460 --> 00:43:31.860
Yeah. The defiant, I think is the English, uh, name
951
00:43:31.900 --> 00:43:32.659
for the game now.
952
00:43:32.679 --> 00:43:34.780
Is that the one where you get to play as
953
00:43:34.820 --> 00:43:37.900
the PRC and it's an FPS or whatever during, um,
954
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:39.860
Japanese war?
955
00:43:40.860 --> 00:43:43.940
I don't know if you're, well, you're not playing as, okay,
956
00:43:44.019 --> 00:43:46.699
listen here, buddy. You're not playing as the PRC because
957
00:43:46.780 --> 00:43:49.880
it wasn't created at that point. Let's get a grip, okay?
958
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:52.159
It was inevitable.
959
00:43:52.219 --> 00:43:57.360
Yeah, but you are playing as a Chinese during the
960
00:43:57.409 --> 00:44:03.010
Second World War. And it's like Chinese Call of Duty.
961
00:44:03.050 --> 00:44:04.489
I actually played the demo for it.
962
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:07.420
It was fun steam has this game unless it's the
963
00:44:07.460 --> 00:44:10.860
different one it's called 14 years of flames on steam.
964
00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:13.429
Okay i played a different there's multiple chinese call of
965
00:44:13.449 --> 00:44:18.449
duties okay okay all right this is good no i
966
00:44:18.489 --> 00:44:21.170
played a different i played a different one oh my
967
00:44:21.210 --> 00:44:23.429
god yeah i played the defiant.
968
00:44:23.130 --> 00:44:25.050
The define okay it is here here it is on
969
00:44:25.090 --> 00:44:29.170
steam wow heroic stories from the chinese battlefields of world war.
970
00:44:28.989 --> 00:44:31.119
Ii What I want is I want one game made
971
00:44:31.179 --> 00:44:35.289
by Taiwanese and one game made by Chinese and see
972
00:44:35.329 --> 00:44:39.610
the same story told from two different developers' point of view.
973
00:44:39.909 --> 00:44:43.829
Are these games that the Chinese government can approve since
974
00:44:43.889 --> 00:44:46.860
most of them are going to be the nationalist Chinese dying?
975
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:50.760
I mean, fighting and dying and the communist basically letting
976
00:44:50.780 --> 00:44:51.219
them die?
977
00:44:51.900 --> 00:44:54.440
Yeah. Wolf and I watched.
978
00:44:54.989 --> 00:44:57.530
that movie about the Shanghai warehouse.
979
00:44:57.550 --> 00:44:58.050
What was that called?
980
00:44:58.090 --> 00:44:59.969
Like the 400 or something.
981
00:44:59.989 --> 00:45:01.070
Do you remember that movie?
982
00:45:01.130 --> 00:45:01.590
Yeah.
983
00:45:01.650 --> 00:45:02.090
Yeah.
984
00:45:02.610 --> 00:45:03.190
It was good.
985
00:45:03.230 --> 00:45:05.550
The Chinese movie, but there, there was all, you know,
986
00:45:05.570 --> 00:45:08.070
all the troops are nationalists. They're flying their nationalist flag,
987
00:45:08.110 --> 00:45:10.340
but the movie was, it was Chinese and had to
988
00:45:10.380 --> 00:45:12.519
be like, you know, approved by the Chinese government. So
989
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:15.340
there were, you know, if you remember the scenes where
990
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:17.420
the soldiers, a handful of soldiers, and they're kind of
991
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:20.119
like a little side scene and talking about how great,
992
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:23.889
you know, communism is, you know, so, uh, So there's
993
00:45:23.909 --> 00:45:26.869
kind of that undertones are like, oh, there are people
994
00:45:26.909 --> 00:45:31.349
in the Nationalist Army that are pro-communism, pro-PRC. And it
995
00:45:31.409 --> 00:45:35.929
wasn't this unified, you know, Nationalist Front kind of deal.
996
00:45:36.030 --> 00:45:41.010
And of course, their warehouse is located near, what's that called?
997
00:45:41.050 --> 00:45:42.280
The government district.
998
00:45:42.300 --> 00:45:43.380
It's the Western Quarter.
999
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:47.619
Yeah, it has a name, the Bund. Maybe that's what
1000
00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:48.000
it's called.
1001
00:45:48.510 --> 00:45:54.380
Anyway, there's a little bit of anti-Western imperialism undertones, a
1002
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:59.739
couple lines about these decadent Westerners just observing the war
1003
00:45:59.900 --> 00:46:02.090
on the other side of the river and not helping the...
1004
00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:04.199
the poor oppressed Chinese people.
1005
00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:06.559
So I had to say that. That's a fair comment.
1006
00:46:06.780 --> 00:46:07.039
Yeah.
1007
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:11.059
You know, if I, if I were being swarmed by Japanese, uh,
1008
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:14.139
soldiers in my rinky dink warehouse and I look over
1009
00:46:14.219 --> 00:46:15.579
and see all their neon lights.
1010
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:17.079
It'd be a little upset.
1011
00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:18.019
I'd be pretty pissed off.
1012
00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:18.300
Yeah.
1013
00:46:18.519 --> 00:46:18.800
Yeah.
1014
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:22.909
Neon lights in 1930. When were neon lights popularized? Were they,
1015
00:46:22.929 --> 00:46:23.639
were they around then?
1016
00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:26.269
Yeah, dude. Have you ever, have you ever seen the
1017
00:46:26.329 --> 00:46:27.190
great Gatsby?
1018
00:46:27.969 --> 00:46:32.079
Oh, pick up a fucking book. Okay. I'm just thinking
1019
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:36.869
of Vegas. What do I know? Books are so in
1020
00:46:36.889 --> 00:46:41.309
the past. ChatGPT, tell me what I need to know.
1021
00:46:41.670 --> 00:46:45.369
It's like every good Vietnam War movie went out and
1022
00:46:45.429 --> 00:46:49.150
pissed off the U.S. military and they didn't work with them.
1023
00:46:50.610 --> 00:46:53.889
Stanley Kubrick, I don't think the U.S. military worked with
1024
00:46:53.949 --> 00:46:59.980
him for Full Metal Jacket. Apocalypse Now pissed off the U.S.
1025
00:47:00.019 --> 00:47:00.699
military too.
1026
00:47:01.690 --> 00:47:05.050
No, they used Filipino Army stuff in the Philippines for
1027
00:47:05.070 --> 00:47:06.260
Apocalypse Now.
1028
00:47:06.539 --> 00:47:12.440
Yeah, but they requested to work with the U.S. military, too,
1029
00:47:12.619 --> 00:47:13.820
and they were declined.
1030
00:47:14.179 --> 00:47:16.099
I think that's probably why they ended up in the Philippines,
1031
00:47:16.139 --> 00:47:16.800
but yes, yes.
1032
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:22.159
And then you have, you know, Slop, where the U.S.
1033
00:47:22.179 --> 00:47:24.849
military is like, yeah, this is great. Like your favorite film.
1034
00:47:25.090 --> 00:47:25.630
Top Gun?
1035
00:47:27.170 --> 00:47:31.010
Well, that one, the military... That one the military was
1036
00:47:31.179 --> 00:47:33.630
all on board for, absolutely. They were like, you want
1037
00:47:33.650 --> 00:47:35.110
to do another Top Gun?
1038
00:47:35.269 --> 00:47:37.650
Yeah, we need another advertisement.
1039
00:47:37.690 --> 00:47:40.150
And that's another undercover war. I had never even heard
1040
00:47:40.170 --> 00:47:41.949
of that war before Top Gun came out.
1041
00:47:42.289 --> 00:47:47.929
The Top Gun 2 movie against the ambiguous Iran-Russian hybrid nation.
1042
00:47:48.389 --> 00:47:51.349
Or even the first one where some F-14 was shot
1043
00:47:51.389 --> 00:47:54.269
down by a Soviet aircraft.
1044
00:47:55.260 --> 00:47:56.099
That doesn't exist.
1045
00:47:56.360 --> 00:47:58.019
No, what are you talking about? This is just the
1046
00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:01.739
untold tales that never gets released by that leftist propaganda
1047
00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:04.429
machine that's the U.S. News. Never would have heard of that.
1048
00:48:04.550 --> 00:48:06.349
Hunt for Red October really happened, too.
1049
00:48:06.429 --> 00:48:06.909
Exactly.
1050
00:48:06.929 --> 00:48:07.670
Yeah.
1051
00:48:08.610 --> 00:48:10.530
That was a documentary. That's right.
1052
00:48:10.969 --> 00:48:14.130
I do love how, like, all the Jack Ryan books
1053
00:48:14.210 --> 00:48:17.590
after that, like, continue those elements of the story as, like,
1054
00:48:17.630 --> 00:48:18.750
a side piece of it.
1055
00:48:18.769 --> 00:48:19.360
Yeah, yeah.
1056
00:48:19.429 --> 00:48:22.960
And just builds just an increasingly... Like, the first few books,
1057
00:48:23.019 --> 00:48:26.050
it's like, okay... the world still is somewhat normal. And
1058
00:48:26.070 --> 00:48:28.869
then by like the sixth book, it's like, all right,
1059
00:48:28.909 --> 00:48:31.469
we are way on left field, man. Like this is
1060
00:48:31.530 --> 00:48:32.650
a wild world.
1061
00:48:33.010 --> 00:48:34.309
Doesn't he become the president?
1062
00:48:34.590 --> 00:48:37.510
Yeah. Because Japan nine 11 is the Capitol building and
1063
00:48:37.530 --> 00:48:39.869
he's like the only survivor. And he was made like
1064
00:48:39.889 --> 00:48:43.110
the vice president, like that exact day or whatever.
1065
00:48:43.260 --> 00:48:47.360
It's so, it's so crazy to think America, like we
1066
00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:51.079
were so uppity about Japan, like to the point of writing,
1067
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:56.119
you know, fan fiction. about a war with japan again
1068
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:57.920
and they sneak attack us again.
1069
00:48:57.739 --> 00:49:00.239
Hey it's all those cheap imports they're you know they're
1070
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:03.239
their yugos are blowing up and killing innocent people on
1071
00:49:03.260 --> 00:49:04.880
the highways or whatever i don't know.
1072
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:08.429
It's like that you know early 2000s like every game
1073
00:49:08.489 --> 00:49:11.610
it's like let's fight korea uh-huh you know you know
1074
00:49:11.630 --> 00:49:14.789
korea's the hotbed so it's always funny.
1075
00:49:15.050 --> 00:49:17.309
Well nowadays we don't make any movies where china's like
1076
00:49:17.389 --> 00:49:20.369
explicitly the bad guy because economics.
1077
00:49:19.769 --> 00:49:22.550
We got sell them our movies they're watching movies now brother.
1078
00:49:22.610 --> 00:49:26.159
Can't can't piss them off yeah exactly that's what i'm.
1079
00:49:26.030 --> 00:49:29.389
Saying billions you can make if you dub star wars
1080
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:32.039
and get them to watch it.
1081
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:35.719
I guess the newest midway movie wouldn't have been made
1082
00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:39.179
until some Chinese investors came along and they were like,
1083
00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:42.440
we'll fund this movie if you add some more anti-Japanese
1084
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:43.030
stuff to it.
1085
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:44.340
Are you serious? Yeah.
1086
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:45.119
I didn't know this.
1087
00:49:45.139 --> 00:49:45.460
Yeah.
1088
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:47.440
No one was going to green light it and some
1089
00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:48.420
Chinese people did.
1090
00:49:48.780 --> 00:49:49.920
But that movie's bad.
1091
00:49:49.940 --> 00:49:52.719
Well, the movie was bad. Don't get me wrong. That's, that's,
1092
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:54.730
that's fine. Who directed that again?
1093
00:49:55.030 --> 00:49:56.030
Roland Emmerich?
1094
00:49:56.070 --> 00:49:56.449
Yeah.
1095
00:49:56.849 --> 00:49:59.510
Look at it at the, I hate to like try
1096
00:49:59.530 --> 00:50:02.210
to return us to the normal podcast topic, but I
1097
00:50:02.250 --> 00:50:04.289
do have one other thing I wanted to talk about
1098
00:50:04.409 --> 00:50:09.199
is like the, Essentially the negligence towards anything, which is
1099
00:50:09.550 --> 00:50:12.769
like a counterinsurgency war. You can think of like basically
1100
00:50:12.829 --> 00:50:16.969
everything from Vietnam on. So you have Vietnam, you have Afghanistan,
1101
00:50:17.010 --> 00:50:19.489
and those two are, of course, ones that were covered
1102
00:50:19.550 --> 00:50:22.989
by every single soldier. They had Vietnam 65 and then
1103
00:50:23.250 --> 00:50:26.809
Afghanistan 11. But like, that's just such a difficult field.
1104
00:50:26.829 --> 00:50:28.829
I feel like even though those wars are, they're not
1105
00:50:28.889 --> 00:50:33.050
popular in gaming, they're very well known like in pop culture.
1106
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:35.699
obviously because they're just so recent. It's kind of interesting
1107
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:40.030
to figure out why those games, which probably would strike
1108
00:50:40.250 --> 00:50:43.409
a chord with people, especially if you made the recent ones,
1109
00:50:43.829 --> 00:50:48.789
why we don't see those. Does it just come down to...
1110
00:50:48.610 --> 00:50:51.449
This is essentially my guess, is that it comes down
1111
00:50:51.510 --> 00:50:54.449
to the difficulty of modeling counterinsurgency.
1112
00:50:54.769 --> 00:50:57.739
I think that's why you don't see it in strategy games.
1113
00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:00.380
Sorry, I should say for strategy games. Yeah, you're right.
1114
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:03.230
Yeah, because... I mean, Call of Duty has done this,
1115
00:51:03.889 --> 00:51:08.199
you know, go to Afghanistan, ask the country, you know,
1116
00:51:08.219 --> 00:51:11.659
for their past eight games. Right. But yeah, I feel
1117
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:14.019
like that's a pretty hard thing to model. I mean,
1118
00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:16.960
there was there was a Vietnam game. I guess there's
1119
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:18.199
that radio command game.
1120
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:18.820
Oh, yeah.
1121
00:51:18.860 --> 00:51:19.519
Radio Commander.
1122
00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:19.840
Yeah.
1123
00:51:20.219 --> 00:51:21.539
I feel like that did it in a kind of
1124
00:51:21.579 --> 00:51:23.800
interesting way. But yeah, good point.
1125
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:27.159
Yeah, it's just it's considering games. There are a few
1126
00:51:27.699 --> 00:51:30.139
like hex based chip games. I know tabletop games that
1127
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:30.880
cover Vietnam.
1128
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:34.480
I haven't. Wasn't there like Vietnam 65 or something like that?
1129
00:51:34.500 --> 00:51:36.559
Yeah, that's what I just mentioned. Thanks for listening, Wolf.
1130
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:37.300
Yes.
1131
00:51:37.699 --> 00:51:38.420
Every single soldier.
1132
00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:41.480
No, that's the same game.
1133
00:51:41.940 --> 00:51:45.820
Well, they have Vietnam 65 and then they have Afghanistan 11,
1134
00:51:45.820 --> 00:51:49.880
which is essentially just the revised version to fit Afghanistan.
1135
00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:52.599
OK, then what is what is every single soldier? What
1136
00:51:52.659 --> 00:51:52.960
is this?
1137
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:55.469
That's a development slash publishing team.
1138
00:51:56.019 --> 00:51:57.659
Okay, I did not notice.
1139
00:51:58.199 --> 00:51:59.099
See, we're learning.
1140
00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:03.820
Yeah, we're all learning together. So they have some pretty
1141
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:07.809
fundamental mechanic for those games about hearts and minds. So
1142
00:52:07.829 --> 00:52:12.730
it's really about changing hearts and minds. In the Vietnam one,
1143
00:52:12.769 --> 00:52:15.809
you do things a certain way. If you're eliminating the
1144
00:52:15.889 --> 00:52:18.980
Viet Cong, but you're using too much force or whatever,
1145
00:52:19.059 --> 00:52:23.239
then the country starts turning against you. Barely remember Vietnam 65,
1146
00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:26.289
but I can say it much better in Afghanistan 11.
1147
00:52:26.289 --> 00:52:28.250
You know, you're dealing with the Taliban, you're like going
1148
00:52:28.269 --> 00:52:30.989
and sweeping different towns. And every time you do like
1149
00:52:31.010 --> 00:52:36.150
a mine sweeping operation near like an Afghani village, you're
1150
00:52:36.190 --> 00:52:39.320
earning hearts. But then like you're putting your troops in
1151
00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:41.579
harm's way and you might be ambushed on the way
1152
00:52:41.639 --> 00:52:47.079
to or from. So it's a pretty interesting perspective on counterinsurgency.
1153
00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:49.980
And like basically they know that. you can't really model
1154
00:52:50.019 --> 00:52:51.920
it the same way you can a normal war.
1155
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:54.420
I think it even has like opium. Like if you
1156
00:52:54.440 --> 00:52:57.429
destroy opium fields, it like hinders their ability to pay
1157
00:52:57.449 --> 00:53:01.730
for soldiers, but it also hurts like the locals perception
1158
00:53:01.769 --> 00:53:03.989
of you. Cause it's like part of their big part
1159
00:53:04.010 --> 00:53:04.710
of their economy.
1160
00:53:05.070 --> 00:53:06.269
Yeah. Yeah.
1161
00:53:06.389 --> 00:53:08.909
I'm trying to think, I mean, Afghanistan also has the
1162
00:53:08.929 --> 00:53:11.730
other aspect of like, it can be a little bit
1163
00:53:11.809 --> 00:53:14.469
gauche to try and be like, fight the war that's
1164
00:53:14.570 --> 00:53:16.869
ongoing now, which I guess is less of an issue now,
1165
00:53:16.969 --> 00:53:20.360
but certainly was relevant until recently. But Vietnam, you'd think
1166
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:21.920
there'd be a little bit more. I wish there was
1167
00:53:21.940 --> 00:53:25.119
more on the strategy, not the grand strategy, but the
1168
00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:28.889
operational or theater-wide strategy. Because even Vietnam 65 is kind
1169
00:53:28.909 --> 00:53:33.269
of this, oh, it's this area of Vietnam. It's nondescript.
1170
00:53:33.309 --> 00:53:36.250
It's not a specific area. It would be interesting if
1171
00:53:36.269 --> 00:53:37.610
there was a game where you could play as kind
1172
00:53:37.630 --> 00:53:41.570
of like Westmoreland. Really anything? There's a few really old
1173
00:53:41.610 --> 00:53:46.920
games from the 90s like that, but nothing modern. FPS
1174
00:53:46.980 --> 00:53:49.219
is sure, but not like strategy games.
1175
00:53:49.260 --> 00:53:52.849
It's a higher level, but ICBM Escalation does have a
1176
00:53:52.909 --> 00:53:56.289
Vietnam one. But, you know, that's the entire country. You're
1177
00:53:56.309 --> 00:53:59.889
playing it almost at a grand strategy level. It's still
1178
00:53:59.929 --> 00:54:02.789
pretty interesting. I think that that game just really appeals
1179
00:54:02.849 --> 00:54:05.449
to me, the way they actually somehow make it. You
1180
00:54:05.489 --> 00:54:09.409
can do technology research within, like, a few years of Vietnam.
1181
00:54:09.969 --> 00:54:12.570
I like ICBM Escalation, so the fact that they cover
1182
00:54:12.630 --> 00:54:15.469
all of these is just, like... convenient that i can
1183
00:54:15.510 --> 00:54:17.969
talk about it on this podcast.
1184
00:54:17.789 --> 00:54:21.789
It's so interesting that i was i was talking about
1185
00:54:21.809 --> 00:54:24.849
like a south african border war and they have a
1186
00:54:24.909 --> 00:54:29.369
game called angola 86 they they've.
1187
00:54:29.179 --> 00:54:32.699
Done this oh yeah that's that was like their wasn't
1188
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:35.880
it their latest like reskin of Afghanistan 11.
1189
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:38.480
I'm guessing all of these games are recent, like Northern
1190
00:54:38.699 --> 00:54:39.480
Ireland 74.
1191
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:39.920
Yeah.
1192
00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:43.659
Man, that's got to be a hotbed in this team
1193
00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:47.639
discussion forum. Can you imagine? Anyway.
1194
00:54:48.050 --> 00:54:49.650
Rhodesia 72. Yeah, okay.
1195
00:54:49.710 --> 00:54:52.789
Yeah, they covered pretty much a lot of these conflicts.
1196
00:54:52.889 --> 00:54:55.190
I think the head of that company, it's like a
1197
00:54:55.250 --> 00:54:57.550
one-man company, but I think he's South African. I could
1198
00:54:57.590 --> 00:54:59.650
be wrong, but I swear I remember that coming up
1199
00:54:59.690 --> 00:55:00.210
at one point.
1200
00:55:00.250 --> 00:55:04.010
That tracks with what is registered in my brain history
1201
00:55:04.070 --> 00:55:04.369
as well.
1202
00:55:04.659 --> 00:55:09.190
So basically, we really rely on local people to an
1203
00:55:09.349 --> 00:55:12.550
area with very specific interests to be able to make
1204
00:55:13.090 --> 00:55:13.929
these kinds of games.
1205
00:55:14.050 --> 00:55:15.610
I mean, here's another wild one. I don't know if
1206
00:55:15.710 --> 00:55:18.090
you guys probably know about the War of the Triple Alliance.
1207
00:55:18.570 --> 00:55:20.730
It's a South American, probably the biggest war that's ever
1208
00:55:20.750 --> 00:55:23.690
been fought in South America. Yeah. Barring like something in
1209
00:55:23.769 --> 00:55:27.349
ancient times. But for some reason, Paraguay took on Brazil, Argentina,
1210
00:55:27.389 --> 00:55:32.050
and Uruguay. Actually has an age-odd game called War of
1211
00:55:32.090 --> 00:55:35.099
the Triple Alliance, no surprise there. It's another thing, like,
1212
00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:37.760
Ajot has been one of those people who goes in
1213
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:41.360
and deals with these conflicts that nobody else really covers.
1214
00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:44.139
They also did some of the Napoleonic stuff that is
1215
00:55:44.179 --> 00:55:46.679
a little bit less well-covered as well. Or maybe it
1216
00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:50.780
was Prussian War. Actually, Tishi, what was the commander and
1217
00:55:50.929 --> 00:55:53.769
whatever one that was recently released?
1218
00:55:53.829 --> 00:55:55.650
Master of Command is his most recent one, but he
1219
00:55:55.690 --> 00:55:58.710
made Fire and Maneuver before that, which did have some other, like,
1220
00:55:58.750 --> 00:55:59.429
18th century wars.
1221
00:56:00.349 --> 00:56:03.389
What was the war that Master and Command covered?
1222
00:56:04.010 --> 00:56:05.760
The Frederick the Great Wars, whatever.
1223
00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:08.719
Yeah, okay. Maybe it wasn't that. I mean, Ajak covered
1224
00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:13.360
the 14 years thing, right? Not 14 years, but what
1225
00:56:13.400 --> 00:56:13.650
was it?
1226
00:56:14.380 --> 00:56:17.360
The Seven Years War was technically the European portion of
1227
00:56:17.409 --> 00:56:20.869
the Seven Years War is what Master of Command covers.
1228
00:56:21.329 --> 00:56:21.590
Okay.
1229
00:56:22.289 --> 00:56:26.329
The guys who made Grand Tactician actually made a predecessor
1230
00:56:26.389 --> 00:56:29.070
to that under a different studio name that was the
1231
00:56:29.110 --> 00:56:29.929
Seven Years War as well.
1232
00:56:30.329 --> 00:56:33.750
Oh, yeah, sorry. I'm just going to randomly add this
1233
00:56:33.809 --> 00:56:36.309
as well, that Operational Art of War 4, it did
1234
00:56:36.369 --> 00:56:41.179
cover Vietnam. It had a Vietnam segment in there as well.
1235
00:56:42.900 --> 00:56:45.460
I feel like I remember you guys talking about that. See,
1236
00:56:45.699 --> 00:56:49.219
I just remember these names. Games.
1237
00:56:50.539 --> 00:56:54.320
Yeah, but I can't remember the Napoleonic era one that
1238
00:56:54.340 --> 00:56:57.510
I was thinking of that Ajod covered that is not
1239
00:56:57.550 --> 00:57:00.570
very well oh pride of nations sorry pride of nations
1240
00:57:00.650 --> 00:57:02.090
it's basically victoria.
1241
00:57:02.030 --> 00:57:04.769
The victoria like it was basically like victoria it was
1242
00:57:04.789 --> 00:57:05.630
made around the time of.
1243
00:57:05.750 --> 00:57:08.710
Victoria one or two yeah it was around victoria too
1244
00:57:09.110 --> 00:57:11.610
you're right so that was interesting because when a jog
1245
00:57:11.650 --> 00:57:14.469
covers it i actually think that maybe it's victoria 2
1246
00:57:14.469 --> 00:57:17.010
is just a uh in my opinion at least is
1247
00:57:17.050 --> 00:57:18.829
a better game than pride of nations but.
1248
00:57:19.190 --> 00:57:22.469
Certainly better optimized turns late in that game take forever
1249
00:57:22.510 --> 00:57:23.110
to load.
1250
00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:27.929
I can just also mention that my thought process, I
1251
00:57:27.949 --> 00:57:30.090
think I've already alluded to this before, but when I
1252
00:57:30.130 --> 00:57:32.210
was thinking about how we talk about games that aren't
1253
00:57:32.250 --> 00:57:34.550
really covered, like whether or not they'll be covered or what,
1254
00:57:34.849 --> 00:57:39.820
my thought process is if you have a scenario generating game,
1255
00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:42.960
such as I think the best example lately is Seapower,
1256
00:57:43.900 --> 00:57:47.639
that you can create the scenarios that you're interested in seeing,
1257
00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:51.969
that's probably your best bet as to modeling, unless you're
1258
00:57:51.989 --> 00:57:56.010
waiting for some dev group to actually you know make
1259
00:57:56.110 --> 00:58:00.389
the whatever obscure game that you're interested in seeing like
1260
00:58:00.449 --> 00:58:04.530
for the obscure theme or point in history i think
1261
00:58:04.570 --> 00:58:06.550
a lot of these scenario generating games are probably able
1262
00:58:06.590 --> 00:58:08.880
to to cover them i mean at least in modern
1263
00:58:09.219 --> 00:58:12.659
time frame i think that between c power command modern
1264
00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:16.880
operations some combination of those two probably you can get
1265
00:58:16.900 --> 00:58:19.099
a lot of a lot of the modern conflicts i
1266
00:58:19.139 --> 00:58:20.559
mean even if you were to try to model like
1267
00:58:20.599 --> 00:58:24.130
the current iran U.S. conflict, you could probably do that
1268
00:58:24.150 --> 00:58:25.699
in Sea Power.
1269
00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:29.400
I'm surprised Command Modern Operations doesn't already have a DLC
1270
00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:33.699
for that. They're pretty quick with, you know.
1271
00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:36.340
I do think it's a little gauche. Like, oh, people
1272
00:58:36.400 --> 00:58:39.030
are dying, let's profit off that. It's like.
1273
00:58:39.969 --> 00:58:43.469
Sea Power does have mods, and I know people, like,
1274
00:58:43.530 --> 00:58:48.539
when the Iran conflict starting up, people were making scenarios
1275
00:58:48.599 --> 00:58:50.820
and stuff for it like you said tortuga so.
1276
00:58:50.659 --> 00:58:52.780
I remember some folks were doing that with ukraine when
1277
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:55.800
the war broke out with command modern operations i'm.
1278
00:58:55.699 --> 00:58:58.599
Not shocked at all well it was even that we
1279
00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:02.389
had remember there was that strategy game that took place
1280
00:59:02.429 --> 00:59:04.449
in this sort of like in syria i think.
1281
00:59:04.449 --> 00:59:07.309
Oh yeah syrian civil war warfare or something like that
1282
00:59:07.369 --> 00:59:08.820
it was made by a Russian dev.
1283
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:13.650
Yeah, and that was a little questionable. Profiteering? War profiteering?
1284
00:59:13.690 --> 00:59:14.010
I don't know.
1285
00:59:14.110 --> 00:59:15.789
Were those the same guys who made Broken Arrow? I
1286
00:59:15.829 --> 00:59:17.570
thought there was some connection there.
1287
00:59:17.929 --> 00:59:19.730
That, I don't know. Broken Arrow, by the way, that's
1288
00:59:19.769 --> 00:59:23.210
I guess another one they... Well, I was starting to
1289
00:59:23.230 --> 00:59:25.869
think of Cold War, what covers the Cold War well?
1290
00:59:25.969 --> 00:59:28.070
Because the Cold War didn't actually, you know, it didn't
1291
00:59:28.090 --> 00:59:30.170
go hot, so how do you, you can't really cover
1292
00:59:30.190 --> 00:59:31.719
the Cold War in any kind of.
1293
00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:32.599
Supreme Commander.
1294
00:59:32.860 --> 00:59:35.920
Yeah, probably just, well, I would say Supreme Ruler, is
1295
00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:36.400
that what you mean?
1296
00:59:36.420 --> 00:59:40.000
Yeah, sorry, Supreme Ruler. There was one with, like, Kennedy
1297
00:59:40.039 --> 00:59:40.719
on the box art.
1298
00:59:41.059 --> 00:59:41.639
Yeah.
1299
00:59:41.900 --> 00:59:43.969
I do quickly want to say I think you're right about,
1300
00:59:44.619 --> 00:59:47.690
you know, otters being able to do this, these sorts
1301
00:59:47.730 --> 00:59:51.769
of little conflicts, smaller conflicts, you know, better than any
1302
00:59:51.809 --> 00:59:55.480
game developer because there is pretty much no financial incentive
1303
00:59:55.579 --> 00:59:59.079
in covering 80% of what we discussed here today. Has
1304
00:59:59.119 --> 00:59:59.719
anyone made.
1305
00:59:59.599 --> 01:00:03.239
Any games on the Indian American Wars? That feels dicey,
1306
01:00:03.500 --> 01:00:06.090
but I'm just curious. I vaguely remember there being like
1307
01:00:06.190 --> 01:00:09.110
a city builder, like way back when where you'd build
1308
01:00:09.130 --> 01:00:11.730
like a fort, like in the Apaches were like a threat,
1309
01:00:11.849 --> 01:00:13.530
but I'm trying to remember if that's ever been like
1310
01:00:13.550 --> 01:00:16.719
an actual, I guess American conquest, maybe those games.
1311
01:00:17.250 --> 01:00:19.670
And I'm trying to think, like, Empire Total War kind
1312
01:00:19.750 --> 01:00:25.619
of dabbles. Medieval 2 had America's expansion too, right?
1313
01:00:25.940 --> 01:00:29.599
EU4 actually does too, doesn't it? Like, you have eventually
1314
01:00:29.960 --> 01:00:31.059
crossed the oceans.
1315
01:00:31.679 --> 01:00:31.980
Yeah.
1316
01:00:32.179 --> 01:00:34.610
I think Tortuga said Oregon Trail.
1317
01:00:34.769 --> 01:00:38.190
Oregon Trail! Oh my gosh, yeah, that is definitely one.
1318
01:00:38.329 --> 01:00:40.389
It's the time period, but.
1319
01:00:40.449 --> 01:00:42.929
Is that a strategy game? Oregon Trail, the strategy game.
1320
01:00:43.110 --> 01:00:44.530
It's definitely some kind of strategy.
1321
01:00:44.610 --> 01:00:45.090
Yeah, true.
1322
01:00:45.239 --> 01:00:48.409
Yeah. I'm going to boot it up and accidentally drown
1323
01:00:48.429 --> 01:00:50.510
Grandma again. Again?
1324
01:00:50.530 --> 01:00:54.210
It's not his first drowning of Grandma.
1325
01:00:56.570 --> 01:01:00.650
Like, Grandma, you can make it across this river. What
1326
01:01:00.670 --> 01:01:01.070
a game.
1327
01:01:01.530 --> 01:01:03.969
Yeah, my favorite is when I was playing it when
1328
01:01:03.989 --> 01:01:06.380
I was so young that I didn't understand what feet was.
1329
01:01:06.400 --> 01:01:09.079
I was like, yeah, we can cock it. It's only
1330
01:01:09.159 --> 01:01:12.500
eight feet. Like, oh, God. Didn't make it.
1331
01:01:13.059 --> 01:01:13.519
Yeah.
1332
01:01:13.719 --> 01:01:15.119
Should have, should not have.
1333
01:01:15.460 --> 01:01:15.940
I know.
1334
01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:18.119
I mean, I should, I tried to forward it when
1335
01:01:18.159 --> 01:01:18.760
it was eight feet.
1336
01:01:18.780 --> 01:01:19.889
Yeah.
1337
01:01:19.909 --> 01:01:21.179
Yeah. I think we can make it.
1338
01:01:21.230 --> 01:01:21.889
Yeah.
1339
01:01:22.570 --> 01:01:24.949
I'm pretty sure I ran into the exact same problem.
1340
01:01:24.969 --> 01:01:25.889
I was a good, sorry.
1341
01:01:25.909 --> 01:01:27.090
Just one other thing I was going to say is
1342
01:01:27.170 --> 01:01:29.849
same way. I kind of view these scenario generating games. I,
1343
01:01:30.130 --> 01:01:32.510
I view these sandbox games as like my way of
1344
01:01:32.570 --> 01:01:35.670
fulfilling most of those titles that I can't really, there's
1345
01:01:35.710 --> 01:01:38.429
no dedicated game for a lot of the things I'd
1346
01:01:38.449 --> 01:01:41.030
be interested in. But you can access them through a
1347
01:01:41.070 --> 01:01:44.480
lot of the sandbox grand strategy games. Like we talked
1348
01:01:44.500 --> 01:01:48.599
about Supreme Ruler, Victoria 3, Hearts of Iron. I think
1349
01:01:48.619 --> 01:01:51.659
that Hearts of Iron still can cover. Maybe not. It
1350
01:01:51.679 --> 01:01:53.809
does have an event. At least Hearts of Iron 3 did.
1351
01:01:53.849 --> 01:01:57.050
I don't know about 4. But for the modeling of
1352
01:01:57.090 --> 01:02:01.199
the Japanese and Russian war or their like mini war.
1353
01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:02.460
testing war.
1354
01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:04.780
What is this mini testing war? Are you talking about
1355
01:02:04.800 --> 01:02:06.079
the Russo-Japanese War?
1356
01:02:06.460 --> 01:02:09.199
No, we're talking about the, again, you left while I
1357
01:02:09.239 --> 01:02:09.920
was talking.
1358
01:02:09.940 --> 01:02:11.070
Oh, right. I was like, what?
1359
01:02:11.110 --> 01:02:13.090
Yes, what Wolf was talking about earlier.
1360
01:02:13.119 --> 01:02:15.889
Oh, you're talking about the border conflict. Sorry, back to Kalkingle.
1361
01:02:16.329 --> 01:02:16.550
Yeah.
1362
01:02:17.269 --> 01:02:19.309
So anyway, when I want to play one of these,
1363
01:02:19.710 --> 01:02:22.409
you know, Victoria 3 covers a lot. Hearts of Iron
1364
01:02:22.750 --> 01:02:26.070
has some mods which extend a time period even or
1365
01:02:26.170 --> 01:02:27.969
cover the earlier one. I mean, this is one way
1366
01:02:28.010 --> 01:02:31.280
you can cover even like the Winter War at least
1367
01:02:31.300 --> 01:02:33.940
from a grand strategy level. Though personally, if I were
1368
01:02:33.960 --> 01:02:36.159
to do it, I honestly, what was the name of the,
1369
01:02:36.340 --> 01:02:38.340
I'm such a dummy, what was the name of the game,
1370
01:02:38.380 --> 01:02:40.159
the real-time strategy game you guys are playing all the
1371
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:41.769
time these days that covers it?
1372
01:02:41.780 --> 01:02:42.340
Gates of Hell.
1373
01:02:42.480 --> 01:02:43.840
Yeah, Gates of Hell. I should play that.
1374
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:46.119
Did you ever like Men of War?
1375
01:02:46.389 --> 01:02:48.349
I mean, I liked Men of War. I think I,
1376
01:02:48.730 --> 01:02:50.489
it was okay, but when I see Gates of Hell,
1377
01:02:50.610 --> 01:02:53.550
that looks much better to me. It's not the same team,
1378
01:02:53.610 --> 01:02:53.840
is it?
1379
01:02:54.130 --> 01:02:57.530
No, but it's kind of, it uses that engine. I
1380
01:02:57.570 --> 01:02:58.889
think it's more enjoyable, though.
1381
01:02:59.289 --> 01:03:01.820
It does look a lot better, yeah. We've played Men
1382
01:03:01.869 --> 01:03:05.250
of War Allied Assault 2, I think, together at some point.
1383
01:03:05.710 --> 01:03:06.289
No way.
1384
01:03:07.329 --> 01:03:07.610
Yeah.
1385
01:03:07.630 --> 01:03:08.869
I don't think I liked it.
1386
01:03:08.869 --> 01:03:12.530
He was in Wolfpack. THG and myself did a three-way battle.
1387
01:03:13.219 --> 01:03:16.619
And then we all uninstalled the game. That's awesome. It
1388
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:18.059
was like a suicide pact.
1389
01:03:18.079 --> 01:03:20.079
Wasn't that Men of War 2, the one that just
1390
01:03:20.119 --> 01:03:21.260
came out recently-ish?
1391
01:03:21.500 --> 01:03:24.199
Yeah, Men of War 2, it wasn't very good. And
1392
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:27.400
people were looking forward to it. And then played in, like,
1393
01:03:27.460 --> 01:03:30.630
I'd rather just play Gates of Hell. Exactly. Men of
1394
01:03:30.650 --> 01:03:35.309
War 2 went more into the fast-paced, not as strategic
1395
01:03:35.349 --> 01:03:38.480
or realistic gameplay, and people didn't really like it. We
1396
01:03:38.500 --> 01:03:40.780
should all play Gates of Hell. That's what we should do.
1397
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:43.480
This is unrelated to the podcast, but you know what
1398
01:03:44.019 --> 01:03:45.960
hits 1.0 in two days? Valheim.
1399
01:03:46.679 --> 01:03:49.400
Oh. I guess we could play that, too. I guess
1400
01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:50.340
our saves are gone.
1401
01:03:50.500 --> 01:03:52.480
No, I still have it. I still have the server.
1402
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:55.619
They had a very big booth at Gamescom with a
1403
01:03:55.659 --> 01:03:58.230
big troll creature. It was kind of cool looking.
1404
01:03:58.909 --> 01:04:01.909
What was the thing that stood out? What was the
1405
01:04:01.949 --> 01:04:03.429
coolest thing of being at Gamescom?
1406
01:04:03.630 --> 01:04:06.429
Honestly, it was just meeting the devs. I already knew, frankly.
1407
01:04:06.530 --> 01:04:09.630
I wasn't really... Oh, that is cool. That's definitely the
1408
01:04:09.670 --> 01:04:11.840
best part. There wasn't anything that I was like, oh
1409
01:04:11.860 --> 01:04:13.440
my gosh, I can't believe this is here.
1410
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:14.500
What devs did you meet?
1411
01:04:15.800 --> 01:04:18.250
Cpower. I meant the silent shark dev.
1412
01:04:18.590 --> 01:04:18.889
Nice.
1413
01:04:19.250 --> 01:04:21.929
I miss the modern naval warfare devs. I would have
1414
01:04:21.949 --> 01:04:23.610
been interested to talk to them, but.
1415
01:04:23.630 --> 01:04:25.849
I bet Suzerain was there. He should have gone to
1416
01:04:25.869 --> 01:04:26.650
say hi to Suzerain.
1417
01:04:27.269 --> 01:04:29.849
For Seapower, did you meet, who did you meet from Seapower?
1418
01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:33.300
Most of them. Yeah. If you interviewed him, you'll him.
1419
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:36.039
Yeah. He's the main guy, right? Like he owns the company.
1420
01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:36.559
Yeah.
1421
01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:36.719
Yeah.
1422
01:04:36.739 --> 01:04:38.619
It'd be interesting to see him in person after like,
1423
01:04:39.019 --> 01:04:42.639
you know, this distant, I always find like these digital
1424
01:04:42.699 --> 01:04:46.380
relationships much worse than just meeting people in person.
1425
01:04:46.539 --> 01:04:46.780
Yeah.
1426
01:04:47.260 --> 01:04:49.679
I met the battleship commando too. Oh, cool.
1427
01:04:49.980 --> 01:04:52.059
Anyhow. Well, I have one other thought.
1428
01:04:52.199 --> 01:04:54.949
Sorry. Okay. Tortuga is a man of thoughts.
1429
01:04:55.030 --> 01:04:55.309
Yeah.
1430
01:04:55.329 --> 01:04:58.070
Well, he doesn't want to leave out another trip that
1431
01:04:58.110 --> 01:04:59.949
just happened. You know, he wants to share in a
1432
01:04:59.969 --> 01:05:03.489
little bit about the fun adventures that he just had.
1433
01:05:03.889 --> 01:05:07.119
We narrowly avoided being eaten by a mountain lion. That's
1434
01:05:07.139 --> 01:05:07.760
what I just learned.
1435
01:05:07.920 --> 01:05:09.119
Well, that's true.
1436
01:05:09.539 --> 01:05:10.840
Really? I don't believe it.
1437
01:05:11.059 --> 01:05:12.340
We were even joking about it.
1438
01:05:12.340 --> 01:05:13.460
Pictures or it didn't happen.
1439
01:05:13.769 --> 01:05:16.630
Did the mountain lion just maul somebody after you left
1440
01:05:16.730 --> 01:05:17.389
or what?
1441
01:05:17.489 --> 01:05:17.769
Yes.
1442
01:05:18.030 --> 01:05:18.710
Are you serious?
1443
01:05:18.889 --> 01:05:20.650
Well, they didn't maul. They just had somebody had to
1444
01:05:20.690 --> 01:05:22.380
get evacuated by a helicopter.
1445
01:05:22.389 --> 01:05:24.949
Okay, well, what were they doing? Were they provoking it?
1446
01:05:25.079 --> 01:05:25.460
I don't know.
1447
01:05:25.500 --> 01:05:28.719
Tortuga provoked it. That other person got eaten. It was
1448
01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:33.400
a paywalled news article. I'm like, this seems really important
1449
01:05:33.460 --> 01:05:36.820
to my health and well-being that I know. Of course
1450
01:05:36.940 --> 01:05:37.440
it was.
1451
01:05:37.780 --> 01:05:40.980
Oh, my gosh. And you're a local? They're like, this
1452
01:05:41.019 --> 01:05:43.989
guy lives right here. Next to this mauling.
1453
01:05:44.179 --> 01:05:47.559
It was the same park we went to and the
1454
01:05:47.619 --> 01:05:48.980
same trail we were on.
1455
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:49.480
Yep.
1456
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:49.980
Wow.
1457
01:05:50.099 --> 01:05:53.059
Tortuga, did you do something that pissed the animal off?
1458
01:05:53.079 --> 01:05:54.900
Then you guys quickly booked it out of there. So
1459
01:05:54.920 --> 01:05:57.119
the poor person coming up the trail behind you got it.
1460
01:05:57.139 --> 01:05:59.349
All I'm saying is you never know when you're going
1461
01:05:59.369 --> 01:06:00.949
to need to grill some steak. And I don't think
1462
01:06:00.969 --> 01:06:02.750
there's anything wrong carrying that around with you.
1463
01:06:04.949 --> 01:06:05.969
He did try to trip me.
1464
01:06:05.989 --> 01:06:09.409
Yeah, he'll leave you for the big cat to just
1465
01:06:09.469 --> 01:06:10.349
rip your throat out.
1466
01:06:10.389 --> 01:06:10.929
That's right.
1467
01:06:11.530 --> 01:06:13.329
Don't have to run fast. You just have to run
1468
01:06:13.389 --> 01:06:18.150
faster than the person you're with. I run very slow,
1469
01:06:19.170 --> 01:06:22.349
as my name Tortuga would imply. Actually, I don't know
1470
01:06:22.369 --> 01:06:24.429
if that's true, but let's pretend it's true. It would
1471
01:06:24.469 --> 01:06:25.030
fit the brand.
1472
01:06:25.449 --> 01:06:28.010
I don't believe that. You play like soccer. You run
1473
01:06:28.030 --> 01:06:29.889
around all the time. Yeah, that's probably true.
1474
01:06:30.630 --> 01:06:33.389
My final thought on this is actually we have all
1475
01:06:33.429 --> 01:06:35.780
these games and nobody makes the, I mean, we have
1476
01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:38.260
all these, uh, the wars that are not really addressed by,
1477
01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:41.900
by popular titles or even, even sometimes not even by
1478
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:45.300
obscure titles. But when I was reflecting on this topic,
1479
01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:48.030
I was like, you know what? I'm kind of okay
1480
01:06:48.050 --> 01:06:53.230
with that though. It turns out that supply equals demand, right?
1481
01:06:53.269 --> 01:06:56.570
I mean, people are supplying the things that are most interesting,
1482
01:06:56.809 --> 01:07:00.070
you know, for these like counterinsurgency things, uh, the gameplay
1483
01:07:00.570 --> 01:07:03.750
is too difficult to get right, then it would not
1484
01:07:03.769 --> 01:07:07.030
be an interesting game to play. And then I don't
1485
01:07:07.050 --> 01:07:10.590
want to play a game which is not interesting. Honestly,
1486
01:07:10.610 --> 01:07:12.530
most of the time when I want to fight a war,
1487
01:07:12.570 --> 01:07:15.449
it probably is more like World War II or the
1488
01:07:15.489 --> 01:07:18.989
Civil War or something like that. It's a fun little
1489
01:07:19.030 --> 01:07:20.630
podcast topic, but at the end of the day, I'm
1490
01:07:21.230 --> 01:07:24.190
not disappointed by the offerings we have out there.
1491
01:07:25.570 --> 01:07:28.570
If anything, I'd say a lot of these games that
1492
01:07:29.119 --> 01:07:31.719
cover world war ii it'd be nice to stick to
1493
01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:33.800
world war ii but do some lesser known things in
1494
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:37.119
world war ii i mean seeing normandy for the 80th
1495
01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:40.369
time is a little it's a little stale i suppose
1496
01:07:40.510 --> 01:07:44.630
but yeah i like you said the marketplace of ideas
1497
01:07:44.670 --> 01:07:47.929
you know people people want it devs are going to
1498
01:07:47.969 --> 01:07:50.389
make it that's what it's all about baby making money
1499
01:07:50.510 --> 01:07:55.840
capitalism wins capitalism ho yeah Maybe we should make games
1500
01:07:56.050 --> 01:07:56.840
on less wars.
1501
01:07:56.940 --> 01:07:59.880
Listen, everybody should just be happy with what they've got.
1502
01:07:59.940 --> 01:08:02.360
Those ungrateful gamers, like, what do they know?
1503
01:08:02.780 --> 01:08:06.260
I'm just thinking wars bad, we should really.
1504
01:08:06.280 --> 01:08:10.550
Can we get a Versailles peace treaty negotiation game?
1505
01:08:11.469 --> 01:08:16.010
Yes. That's what I need. I just need to make
1506
01:08:16.050 --> 01:08:18.430
a Suzerain version of that. You could do that with Suzerain.
1507
01:08:18.729 --> 01:08:19.270
Yeah.
1508
01:08:20.409 --> 01:08:21.029
Oh, man.
1509
01:08:21.979 --> 01:08:23.069
That's a good idea.
1510
01:08:23.289 --> 01:08:26.050
So what is winning? Is winning extracting as much as
1511
01:08:26.090 --> 01:08:29.829
you can from Germany, or is it preventing World War II? Yes.
1512
01:08:29.869 --> 01:08:34.029
This is my Versailles Treaty. Keep it the same. Essentially
1513
01:08:34.109 --> 01:08:36.829
hand over this little corporal named Adolf Hitler.
1514
01:08:39.409 --> 01:08:42.840
A strange request from the British.
1515
01:08:42.859 --> 01:08:45.539
From the French delegation. They're like, I need this guy.
1516
01:08:45.979 --> 01:08:47.680
They're like, we don't even know who this guy is
1517
01:08:47.739 --> 01:08:48.699
or how to find him.
1518
01:08:50.680 --> 01:08:52.760
Yeah, come to find out he's an Austrian guy serving
1519
01:08:52.779 --> 01:08:54.810
in the German army. And they're like, well, he was
1520
01:08:54.850 --> 01:08:56.449
breaking the rules the entire time.
1521
01:08:56.470 --> 01:09:01.279
They get you the wrong Adolf. Oh, gosh, yeah, there's
1522
01:09:01.300 --> 01:09:02.300
like three of them.
1523
01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:03.180
Oh, my God, yeah.
1524
01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:04.939
Oh, brother.
1525
01:09:05.720 --> 01:09:07.140
This one's actually good at art.
1526
01:09:07.500 --> 01:09:15.140
Oh, man, that's so stupid. Oh, you know what?
1527
01:09:15.180 --> 01:09:18.159
So I know that we're just really trying not to...
1528
01:09:18.060 --> 01:09:19.840
But you know what would be really cool to see
1529
01:09:19.920 --> 01:09:23.720
is a strategy war game on the Soviet-Afghanistan conflict.
1530
01:09:23.739 --> 01:09:24.600
Combat Mission had one.
1531
01:09:24.939 --> 01:09:25.199
Really?
1532
01:09:25.220 --> 01:09:26.979
Yeah, I think it got pulled? There was like some
1533
01:09:27.000 --> 01:09:30.270
weird licensing, but there was a Combat Mission... Hell yeah.
1534
01:09:30.279 --> 01:09:32.470
Afghanistan game for a while, and I don't know... I
1535
01:09:32.489 --> 01:09:34.989
don't think you can buy it anymore. But like Soviet version,
1536
01:09:35.029 --> 01:09:37.430
not the American one, right? Yes, Soviet.
1537
01:09:37.590 --> 01:09:38.949
That would be pretty cool.
1538
01:09:39.029 --> 01:09:41.329
That conflict's so interesting. It'd be interesting to have a
1539
01:09:41.369 --> 01:09:44.890
game where you manage... like the logistics of that war
1540
01:09:45.029 --> 01:09:48.109
because they built these oil pipelines and all, and they
1541
01:09:48.140 --> 01:09:51.079
were frequently attacked, you know, lots of, lots of really
1542
01:09:51.119 --> 01:09:54.359
cool stuff to do there. I'm not even like a war,
1543
01:09:54.760 --> 01:09:57.699
a war game, but you know, more of a, maybe both, you.
1544
01:09:57.640 --> 01:10:00.119
Know, like I could see it almost like the same
1545
01:10:00.180 --> 01:10:01.840
way that T. She was talking about this game at
1546
01:10:01.859 --> 01:10:05.140
the very beginning, whatever it was like acceptable casualties or whatever.
1547
01:10:05.689 --> 01:10:07.829
Where it's like you're managing... Acceptable losses.
1548
01:10:08.029 --> 01:10:08.229
Yes.
1549
01:10:08.970 --> 01:10:11.609
Where you're managing both logistics building up, but then you
1550
01:10:11.630 --> 01:10:13.850
have to send troops out to defend it or whatever.
1551
01:10:13.869 --> 01:10:16.329
I don't know. I'm thinking it. Right.
1552
01:10:16.350 --> 01:10:19.390
Okay. When we sign off. Like Caesar 3 style. I mean,
1553
01:10:19.409 --> 01:10:21.590
you could do the same style with Vietnam too, like
1554
01:10:21.670 --> 01:10:25.890
keeping forward bases supplied and things like that. But yeah,
1555
01:10:25.930 --> 01:10:28.069
I think it would be an interesting topic. Another interesting
1556
01:10:28.130 --> 01:10:30.949
one might be... Actually, the negotiating idea is not a
1557
01:10:30.970 --> 01:10:33.850
bad idea. It doesn't have to be about Versailles, you know,
1558
01:10:33.869 --> 01:10:35.729
it could be like Vietnam, right? Like you've got to
1559
01:10:35.770 --> 01:10:38.680
try and get the Vietnam Accord signed. You've got a
1560
01:10:38.699 --> 01:10:41.039
limited amount of time and bombing that you can use
1561
01:10:41.140 --> 01:10:44.260
as trying to get leverage and like the clock runs
1562
01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:47.329
out when political support ends or I don't know, any
1563
01:10:47.369 --> 01:10:48.770
conflict like that could be interesting.
1564
01:10:49.250 --> 01:10:49.409
Yeah.
1565
01:10:50.119 --> 01:10:50.880
I think you're right.
1566
01:10:50.939 --> 01:10:51.430
Get on it.
1567
01:10:51.779 --> 01:10:53.579
All right, let's wrap it up on that good note.
1568
01:10:54.220 --> 01:10:55.680
But just to say, though, that is actually.
1569
01:10:55.819 --> 01:10:56.800
Oh, my God.
1570
01:10:56.819 --> 01:10:57.199
You got it.
1571
01:10:57.819 --> 01:10:59.920
No, that is a pretty good idea to get in. Like,
1572
01:11:00.180 --> 01:11:02.899
don't you think negotiation side of things in games is
1573
01:11:02.939 --> 01:11:04.970
like very underwhelming? I don't know.
1574
01:11:05.189 --> 01:11:07.909
I agree. It always is in every single video game
1575
01:11:07.930 --> 01:11:08.449
that does it.
1576
01:11:09.470 --> 01:11:12.310
Hearts of Iron, Victory, any of these grand strategy games,
1577
01:11:12.329 --> 01:11:14.470
the negotiation is never... I mean, that could be a
1578
01:11:14.489 --> 01:11:14.909
whole thing.
1579
01:11:15.149 --> 01:11:16.930
I think there's some board games that are really good,
1580
01:11:16.949 --> 01:11:19.409
because you could have a ticker. Again, that idea of
1581
01:11:19.630 --> 01:11:22.069
the clock is counting down, you have so much leverage
1582
01:11:22.109 --> 01:11:24.300
you can use. I really think that could be an
1583
01:11:24.359 --> 01:11:26.779
interesting mechanic for a computer game, but I don't know
1584
01:11:26.819 --> 01:11:28.500
that I've ever seen it there. I do think there
1585
01:11:28.520 --> 01:11:31.279
are some board games that do similar things, though.
1586
01:11:31.579 --> 01:11:34.210
I think, yeah, a board game where it's, you know...
1587
01:11:34.630 --> 01:11:37.029
Where you get a group of people yelling at each other.
1588
01:11:37.050 --> 01:11:38.029
Yeah.
1589
01:11:38.050 --> 01:11:38.789
I can see that.
1590
01:11:39.609 --> 01:11:42.310
Yeah, how do you put that into a video game, though?
1591
01:11:42.550 --> 01:11:43.229
That's difficult.
1592
01:11:43.250 --> 01:11:44.569
They're all just systems, dude.
1593
01:11:45.010 --> 01:11:47.090
Yeah, I mean, unless you have people playing the other side,
1594
01:11:47.109 --> 01:11:50.850
then if you can't have maybe an AI model is
1595
01:11:50.939 --> 01:11:53.899
trained to react, I don't know. Or, you know, maybe
1596
01:11:53.979 --> 01:11:55.920
espiocracy is going to cover this when they come out
1597
01:11:55.939 --> 01:11:56.159
in 2030.
1598
01:11:56.159 --> 01:11:56.500
Yeah, that game.
1599
01:11:58.699 --> 01:12:02.739
That game's not coming out. I've decided that's not going
1600
01:12:02.760 --> 01:12:03.220
to happen.
1601
01:12:03.279 --> 01:12:06.739
That game has spoiled my high opinion of Hooded Horse.
1602
01:12:07.079 --> 01:12:10.439
It was all perfect, and then Espeocracy.
1603
01:12:11.159 --> 01:12:12.220
I still love Hooded Horse.
1604
01:12:12.659 --> 01:12:13.800
Oh, I'm just teasing.
1605
01:12:14.739 --> 01:12:15.229
No, you're not.
1606
01:12:15.619 --> 01:12:16.149
Yes, I am.
1607
01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:18.710
I think Manor Lord's got a new patch. Let's just
1608
01:12:18.750 --> 01:12:20.090
keep dragging this one out.
1609
01:12:21.010 --> 01:12:24.270
Oh, brother.
1610
01:12:24.289 --> 01:12:25.729
This is a lesser known time period.
1611
01:12:26.170 --> 01:12:26.869
The Middle Ages?
1612
01:12:26.890 --> 01:12:30.869
Yes. Yeah, Middle Ages Europe. Middle Ages Japan is something
1613
01:12:31.109 --> 01:12:31.729
I'd like that.
1614
01:12:31.930 --> 01:12:32.529
That'd be great.
1615
01:12:32.970 --> 01:12:33.350
Yeah.
1616
01:12:33.390 --> 01:12:35.170
Have I talked about House of Legacy yet?
1617
01:12:36.289 --> 01:12:39.180
Yeah, we could use it again, though. It's been so long.
1618
01:12:39.489 --> 01:12:42.840
Can you remind me? It's been an hour and a half, so...
1619
01:12:42.699 --> 01:12:47.760
How about this wolf? Silent Hunter Hunley. Okay, that'd be
1620
01:12:47.779 --> 01:12:49.779
pretty cool. I want a turtle simulator.
1621
01:12:51.079 --> 01:12:52.350
You just sink immediately?
1622
01:12:52.359 --> 01:12:53.729
Yeah.
1623
01:12:53.850 --> 01:12:58.109
You just float like you're... I don't know... run out
1624
01:12:58.130 --> 01:13:01.109
of oxygen you know almost whatever the hell happened.
1625
01:13:01.220 --> 01:13:03.420
That reminds me there's someone made a demo of like
1626
01:13:03.460 --> 01:13:06.359
being a missile commander in an icbm silo it was
1627
01:13:06.399 --> 01:13:08.699
just like a some school project and it was like
1628
01:13:08.819 --> 01:13:11.439
seven chapters but it was seven chapters of like five
1629
01:13:11.500 --> 01:13:14.359
minutes of you just sitting in like a silo doing
1630
01:13:14.439 --> 01:13:16.979
nothing that's awesome nothing they didn't they were like we
1631
01:13:17.000 --> 01:13:18.479
were toying with the idea of you having to pick
1632
01:13:18.539 --> 01:13:19.939
up the phone at one point and they were just
1633
01:13:19.970 --> 01:13:22.069
like it was too much work and so we didn't
1634
01:13:22.529 --> 01:13:24.289
so you're just sitting in a silo doing.
1635
01:13:24.149 --> 01:13:26.229
Nothing Yeah, that's the job.
1636
01:13:26.470 --> 01:13:27.060
That's great.
1637
01:13:27.159 --> 01:13:29.970
This has been another fantastic podcast, gang. I think the
1638
01:13:30.149 --> 01:13:32.470
audience is really going to enjoy this one. Be sure
1639
01:13:32.510 --> 01:13:36.729
to check out the website. Leave a review, good or bad.
1640
01:13:37.590 --> 01:13:43.090
THD really likes the bad ones. And that is going
1641
01:13:43.130 --> 01:13:44.550
to do it for this one, I think.
1642
01:13:44.930 --> 01:13:46.449
I like how you just took charge. You're like, I'm
1643
01:13:46.470 --> 01:13:49.510
not going to let Tortuga keep extending this thing. We're done.
1644
01:13:49.810 --> 01:13:50.770
I really respect that.
1645
01:13:50.930 --> 01:13:54.130
You know, sometimes you got to know when it's time
1646
01:13:54.149 --> 01:13:54.770
to wrap it up.
1647
01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:57.399
Got no one to hold them, no one to fold them.
1648
01:13:57.659 --> 01:13:59.060
Dolly Parton, rest in peace.
1649
01:14:00.140 --> 01:14:02.899
I'm pretty sure it was not her, but that's okay.
1650
01:14:03.399 --> 01:14:05.680
You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.
1651
01:14:05.859 --> 01:14:08.819
Well, thanks, everyone. Yes. Wolf, thanks for pushing us to
1652
01:14:08.850 --> 01:14:09.159
the end.
1653
01:14:09.399 --> 01:14:09.939
You're welcome.
1654
01:14:10.149 --> 01:14:10.869
And off the cliff.
1655
01:14:11.010 --> 01:14:12.430
Like grandma drowning in a river.
1656
01:14:12.770 --> 01:14:14.109
Oh, another grandma drowning. All right.
1657
01:14:14.130 --> 01:14:17.250
Well, thanks, everybody, for tuning in to episode number 101
1658
01:14:17.250 --> 01:14:20.029
of the Single Malt Strategy Podcast. Hope you all enjoyed
1659
01:14:20.069 --> 01:14:24.020
this episode. And until next time, this is Matt. You
1660
01:14:24.039 --> 01:14:26.619
can call me the historical gamer for Tortuga.
1661
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:28.140
You can call him Eric.
1662
01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:30.319
You can call him Eric for Wolf.
1663
01:14:31.779 --> 01:14:34.020
Yep, Wolf.
1664
01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:38.579
And for Finnish Jaeger. Thanks again for tuning in. And
1665
01:14:38.659 --> 01:14:39.800
until next time, we're out.