WEBVTT
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Welcome to Silver Talks.
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I'm your host, Sharon Ryan.
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Silver Talks is a beautiful online platform that we created for women 50 and older.
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We come together in community and sisterhood.
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We share our lived experiences, our wisdom, our sorrows and our pains.
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You can cry, you can laugh, you can do everything in between.
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I have the most wonderful pleasure in introducing to you someone who I deeply care about, Carmella Carlisle.
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She is a partner within Silver Awakening.
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She is one of our mentors.
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She also has created an incredible course for us to dive into this fall.
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And that course has the subject of transformative tools, which is what we're going to be diving into today.
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So a little bit about Carmilla.
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She's a psychotherapist, she's an educator, and she has specialized women through their life transitions for the past 30 plus years.
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So Carmela, welcome and thank you so much for being here with me.
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Thank you, Sharon.
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So Carmela, Carmilla, you spent 30 years doing this, or over 30 years, I think.
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You've got you've got an extensive, beautiful background, which I'm you I'm happy for you to share a bit with our audience.
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But what I want to jump into the very first question that I've been thinking about prior to our interview.
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As a psychotherapist, as an educator, as a woman who's been doing this for so long, why is change so difficult for women, especially 50 and older?
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Yeah.
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Well, you know, Sharon, there is a natural resistance to admitting that our former life choices no longer suit us.
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But we've outgrown the decisions that we made in our lives.
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And I think sometimes it is the challenge of first accepting that maybe the people in our lives, the relationships, our work, our goals, they no longer fit who we are.
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And I think the struggle for authenticity is the underlying rub.
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Yeah, that we we feel that we're not operating from a place of authenticity, and that's unsettling.
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We know from uh neurobiology, psychotherapy, and just life that human beings will choose chaos and dysfunctional behaviors that are familiar over the unfamiliar.
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It's a natural human response to want to defend and cling to what we've always done before.
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That's very interesting, Carmel.
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So let me let me ask you this.
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If we do you find that, especially women who have crossed over the age of 50, is it is it that we've gotten so habitually set in our ways to back to that comfort thing that you were talking about, how we'll just ease right back into the chaos or the drama?
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Um is it is it uh I don't, I know this is going to sound not the way that I wanted to come, like trying to teach an old dog new tricks, like remapping the way that you think about things after 50.
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You know, do you see do you see any of the pushbacks on those types of things?
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Absolutely.
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And may I add here that this old dog can't learn new tricks?
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That's nonsense.
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And contemporary neurobiology tells us that our brains, neuroplasticity, our brains can change.
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You know, people say, oh, I'm too that's a that's a belief that gets in the way of moving forward.
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I'm too old to change, or you know, or it's gotta be hard.
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That's another one.
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You know, these old dogs, new trick stuff, nah, you know, I think that one of the things that I like to always explore with my clients in individual sessions, as well as in this exciting upcoming new class.
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Yes, in order to move forward, we need to forgive ourselves with compassion for what we did not know in our previous chapters.
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Amen.
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Amen.
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I mean that I think when you ask about the barriers for change, that's a big one.
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You know, so many of us get stuck there.
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It's it's for goodness.
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I didn't know then when I was 30, 40, 26, 22.
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I didn't know then what I know now.
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And so exactly.
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I would like to encourage us to use that as an impetus for change.
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I love that.
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Carmela, you said something too in that previous, not this previous, but the answer before, about that authentic, uh authentic voice, finding that being true to yourself.
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One of do you find that as women age, um, that kind of all the drama stuff just starts falling away kind of naturally?
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They don't want it, they don't want, they don't want to be in the throes of it, and finding that their own voice when they've been, and we're all in the same age group.
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So we all are dealing with, you know, maybe some oppression when it comes to the feminine anything out in the world, our careers, you know, fighting our way through educational, you know, finding our standings in our families, you name it.
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Are you that is that something that sort of naturally happens within the evolution of sort of like aging into your authenticity?
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Is is that like a kind of a natural aging process that you've seen, or you know, like a characteristic, I would say, of the aging process?
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Well, I would I mean, there's a lot of factors at play.
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Okay.
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And it very well could be that the nature of my work and my energy attracts women who are in for change.
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You know, I like that.
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I like that.
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You know, that that my I, you know, my I have my clients with who are attracted to work with me, they're usually ready to get on with it.
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You know, in in my younger years when I was working in clinical settings, it was much different.
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I was working with women who were healing through trauma and uh sexual assault and domestic violence.
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And I would I was there in the trenches with that work.
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But as we age and as we evolve, I hope that women come to a healthy place of self-regard.
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I love this.
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Um I think the main piece that's here is we've got to be honest with ourselves.
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Ah, yes, that is so true.
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I mean that is so true.
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And healing can only happen as much as we're willing to face ourselves.
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I love that, Karma.
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That's beautiful.
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Can you speak a little bit about what's happening beneath the surface when we find ourselves entering a brand new chapter in our lives?
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And let's just say for Women 50 Plus, as they're moving through massive transitions, aging out of jobs, possible divorce, empty nest, all of these things.
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Like, can you speak a little bit about what's happening underneath, especially with the women that you've worked with?
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Well, I okay, last week I had uh a new client come to me who was completely feeling lost because her kids, might I add, they're like 32 and 29.
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Okay, and they still think they're married and they want to move on.
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But her perception is that her life has no meaning because her identity was so wrapped up there that it was this plunge.
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It was it was as if you know, when we think of empty nesters, we often think that it's like 18 or 100 years.
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Yeah, yeah, I'm yeah, that's where my head went.
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Yeah.
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Depending on where we identify and where we put our energy, change and new chapters can feel different, and they do for different women.
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And despite the fact that I have, like, yeah, I've worked in my field for 30 years, but it like you, I mean, in many different contexts.
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In many different capacities, yes, yes.
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Yeah, I I mean, yeah, so there's been these transitions where I was like, huh, I think that women need healing in the workplace because of the cultural and societal pressures on women.
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Oh, it's ridiculous.
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So I do think too, you know, going back to you, there is a cultural and societal influence on us.
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Absolutely.
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And that ships.
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But here's the thing when we age, is society telling us, oh, you go girl, you're better than ever.
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You're you're a fine wine.
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That's what you uh I don't think so.
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We're not seeing it, not yet.
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I mean, Host Springs Eternal, right?
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Ageism, sexism, yes, yes, and even the limitations in our own families, yes, who were like, well, uh, who have demands on women, right?
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That aren't saying, yeah, mom, you I think this would be great.
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Try right like, oh, what about uh my kids?
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Aren't you gonna be able to babysit?
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Or life partners, uh same gender or otherwise.
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We get into a rut in our personal relationships, right?
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And all of these factors, I don't want to sound grim here, but I'm a realist about challenges we're facing.
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So we need to be there here for each other, and that's what Silver Awakening is doing.
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Amen to that.
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Amen to that.
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So let's let's talk a little bit about you're working, you're working with Silver Awakening in in two different capacities.
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Um, you're a mentor, you're actually one of our advising mentors, which means that's a big deal in our world.
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So you're a mentor, and you are going to be working with um one-on-ones uh with individuals coming into Silver Awakenings that are gravitated towards your work.
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You also have so graciously created a beautiful course for us to launch with in the fall.
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That was and your course is all around those transformative tools.
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Um, but you begin your course with this idea of releasing and creating space.
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And it's very prominent through your work.
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Could you please speak to us a little bit about that and why that's so significant?
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It it I guess it's related to what we were just speaking about, the the beliefs that we hold to be true, and that's how I view it.
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The beliefs we hold to be true.
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Right.
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Are they true?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Did they used to be true?
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Are they no longer our truth?
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We have all of us beliefs that we have absorbed or held on to, that we define ourselves by, that were really um, I'll I'll use the heart inflicted upon us.
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Yes, yes.
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And we we need to get conscious that if those beliefs, where did they come from?
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We need to examine what do I hold to be true?
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Is it still applicable?
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Yes, importantly, does it serve me?
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Does it bring me joy?
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Does it bring me happiness?
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Where am I sitting with myself?
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So that's another interesting part of your work because a lot of your work is a somatic experience.
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Yes.
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The person, you know, the course is so um incredibly designed in the fact that we're not we're not we're not attending to the student through this cerebral process.
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What we're doing is you have created this beautiful palette of tools that you're gonna be sharing with your students and you're gonna be walking them through those processes of why that's important.
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But can you speak a little bit about the toolbox itself?
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Well, yeah.
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I'm going to go to a Japanese proverb here.
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Oh, I love Japanese proverbs.
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I mean, I'll I'll tell you I've used it through the years for myself, for others, where this very intentional, you know, earnest student comes to the master and she says, I I I want to learn everything.
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I want to grow, I want to expand.
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I've been reading your books on studying.
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I am re I I am here.
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I am and and she went on about all the self-help books that she read, doctrines, and her studies.
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And the the teacher, the master says, uh, she says, Um, would you like some tea?
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And the earnest, wanting to be student, says, Oh, yes, thank you.
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And the teacher took the teapot and just kept pouring, and the tea was just overflowed everywhere.
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And she was aghast, like, what goes on here?
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And the teacher said, Come back to me when you've emptied your cup.
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Beautiful starting point for starting is how are we gonna get a fresh pour in life unless we empty our cup?
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We've got to take the pause to self-reflect on our spend the time with ourselves.
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I I have been a uh psychology professor, I've been a training specialist for human development in the workplace.
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Yeah, and I understand adult learning theory, I understand learning objectives, they apply for certain subject matter.
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Right, but when the subject is you and your own self-discovery, I don't want to be lecturing in front of a classroom.
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I sign up as a gentle guide and for women who sign up for the class to allocate that hour of consciousness, receptivity, self-discovery.
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I cannot wait.
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I cannot wait to see what comes out of this and the responses that we get.
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But with tools that they can take home and work with, and it is work, and Silver Awakening is gifting everyone a journal, a Silver Awakening journal.
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Oh, I love that.
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I love that.
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So I designed the class specifically to afford women, because it's very hard for women to do this.
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I understand allocate self-care me time.
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Yes.
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What's the first thing that goes?
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Allocating self-care me time.
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First thing out the door.
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Women can see that giving themselves an hour on a Wednesday evening to make you get in comfy clothes.
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You don't have to do your makeup or your hair, you're not gonna be on camera.
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Yeah, you're going to be in your own home with your journal, experiencing the crystal bowl sound healing, experiencing new tools, altar building to make the intention that you hold physical, you know, and that uh altering your inner narrative.
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We're going to work with tools that I think, Sharon, are better served in sacred privacy.
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Um being gently guided.
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Yes, that's gorgeous.
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Well, and that brings me to my next question because you seem to have a wonderful way of interweaving the practicality of psychology to the mind, body, spirit, wholeness, holistic thing.
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You bring that all in.
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I mean, it's all available to you and the way that you work with your clientele.
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How did these two worlds collide?
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Is that even well, you know, yeah.
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I mean, well, let me just say this.
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Uh, aging has served me well.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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The as a younger woman, um, subject to the scrutiny that I was for my, you know, professional skills.
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Yes.
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I, when I was a younger woman, I was remiss in being brave enough to introduce what I knew to be true for the value of meditation, creative visualization, um, the divine feminine archetypes.
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You know, I I I one of my own personal loves.
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Yes.
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And, you know, the Jungian in me and the yogini in me.
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I started practicing yoga and meditation when I was 21 years old.
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I am so fortunate I came to these practices.
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But Sharon, like many women, I kept that separate.
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I didn't want I didn't want to be labeled woo-woo.
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Right.
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I mean, even though I was working in the University of California system, which was pretty flexible for this.
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Yes.
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I mean, there for a while I was training scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
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No kidding.
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I was working at UC Berkeley with staff who were wanting to achieve and move forward, you know, and an advocate for diversity.
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So it took me, I'm not going to say that I always was so integrative.
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It took me years to claim my skills and my insights and to integrate what you and I have talked about this.
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The ancient ones of yoga and meditation.
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Absolutely.
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Neurobiology confirms this.
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Absolutely.
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And you have segueed once again so beautifully, right into my next question.
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Neurobiology, neurobiology.
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A huge, expansive, fascinating, amazing field that we are entering into.
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Um, I it is it is a a college course all in of itself.
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It's a degree, but I'm gonna ask you if you can, if you could just somewhat define that, just a smidge inside of this work.
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Okay.
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Contemporary neurobiology is the study of how our brain and our bodies and our thoughts.
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Our bodies remember everything.
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That's why when we're looking at trauma, the body holds trauma.
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When we women are not comfortable in our bodies, when we don't feel safe, and that's a lot of work to get to feel safe in our bodies.
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We overthink it's all connected.
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The more safety we can cultivate within ourselves and loving compassion for our bodies.
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Especially as we age, I think that many of my clients are dealing with a sense of betrayal with their bodies.
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They're going through menopause, they're going through perimenopause, then menopause, and it's like their their senses like it never used to be like this.
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And yet their bodies are betraying them.
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When our bodies are actually asking for different kinds of support.
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This is supported completely with neuroscience that our brains, everything we say to ourselves, oh my word.
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Okay, here's an example.
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I should give a practical example.
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I'm a student of neurobiology.
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Uh right, I I've I've done crystal bowls in hospitals.
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I've had the luxury of having doctors and nurses on my team, being able to look at what the brain does.
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Right.
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Right.
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I mean, blood tests to see how we can lower the blood pressure with material.
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Wow.
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We are it's all connected.
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But here's a here's one that just really imagine if every thought you had was printed out on a ticker tape.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:17.920
Oh my god.
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.359
It would wrap around the planet 500 times, probably.
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:27.920
And how much of it would be, darling, you're fabulous, you've got this.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:41.440
How much of it would be, I am powerful, I welcome change, I honor this body and all it can do.
00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:55.759
How much of our ticker tape, you know, of our self-inner narrative would serve us, you know, like I think we women are critical of ourselves.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.000
We've internalized this as I don't know, tough love.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:01.279
It's not love.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:12.559
And neuroscience confirms that the vibration of our inner narrative activates disease.
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:16.240
Of course, in our body.
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:18.400
So it's all connected.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.920
And I'm not going to make this a science class.
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.880
Yeah, no, I no, totally understood, which is very experiential and it's gorgeous.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:28.640
It's gorgeous for that reason.
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.279
The way that you developed this was pitch perfect.
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:41.039
But I want women to come into an understanding and to cherish their nervous system.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.880
And we have more power than we think.
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:46.480
Oh, for sure.
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:52.079
To shift from that stressful, I gotta survive mode, right?
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.480
Overachiever, perfection, right, all that.
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.759
That's all on the sympathetic nervous system.
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:03.680
The healing happens in the parasympathetic.
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:16.640
And that's really actually, Sharon, I think that's one of the goals of my class is to invite women to get a glimpse of how that feels and dwell there for a little bit.
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:42.799
Well, I think that that's beautiful, Carmela, because I can also see, you know, uh so many other areas, once they're taught the skills, once they're once they're taught how significant these different um transformative practices can be, then they can start to overlay that in multiple areas of their life, you know, even just getting a sense of having to calm themselves down, you know, anything.
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:46.079
I mean, I it's endless, it's absolutely endless.
00:26:46.319 --> 00:27:11.839
Well, we're gonna we're gonna move on a little bit here and we're gonna talk about one of your transformative tools um that again is there's this focus, and I'm gonna ask you to go into this from a psychological level, but releasing the past and then creating your present future through this experiential journey.
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:22.079
Can you sort of like help me understand what that means, like through the process of what they'll be learning through the class?
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:35.680
You know, is this on a subconscious level that you're starting to open up different channels within your students to help them like, I don't know, get glimpses of inspiration?
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:37.680
Or am I just overthinking this?
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.599
Or well, it it's a lot, yeah.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.039
Okay, I've broken it down into accessible lessons.
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.759
And the goal here is awareness.
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:57.839
My clients very often will go aha, they'll have these aha's.
00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:58.880
Oh, I love that.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:04.960
And I don't think that we access that through lectures, we access it through experience.
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:05.519
Yeah.
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:07.759
Here's an example.
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:15.680
I'm working with a client who grew up in a very chaotic environment, home environment.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:27.759
The the lights would be turned off, the bills weren't being paid, she would be handed money to take on the subway to go pay the rent because her parents were unreliable.
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:43.599
And she came from that chaos through her work to be a beautifully stable woman with a great job and advocate and a loving husband.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:50.960
She didn't marry till her 40s because she was so distracted with taking care of her in her family.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:29:03.279
Um and in our last session, she said, you know, Carnella, but I'm loving all this peace that I'm feeling with our work.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.599
She goes, but I gotta tell you, it gets a bit boring.
00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:11.279
Oh, because she's not in the chaos.
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:27.599
She went to have a hysterectomy, and her major concern was not the surgery or the pain, but how bored she was gonna be, just quote, laying around, you know.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:41.200
And I think that that's when we start looking at what we need to let go, sometimes it's we need to recognize that our nervous systems are still in survival mode.
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:52.000
Oh my god, and then you pack a bunch of years on top of that because of however old you are, and you've been putting your poor body through this for forever.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:30:03.839
And and and I think we're not really often because we live in a culture that say you know, for our wonderful women at Silver Awakening who want to make a life transition.
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:04.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:06.400
What have we been taught?
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:10.799
You know, you know, no pain, no gain.
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:26.720
Um, we live in a culture that applauds achievement and pushing and the value, the power of receptivity of the sacred pause to receive.
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:28.799
So beautifully said.
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:40.240
I mean, so that we are afraid of being bored because what we've learned are survival approaches that are outdated, they don't serve us.
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:52.559
So, what what I'm saying to you about this class is I want the women to become aware of behaviors and beliefs that maybe they worked in the past, but they're not working now.
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:58.799
So we need to not be afraid of being softer.
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:01.200
I love that.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:09.119
Oh, you just speak to my heart every single time I talk to you because this is exactly this is exactly why we created Silver Awakenings.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:09.839
This is it.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:33.200
This is this is the whole foundation of this, is to have incredible people like you at the helm of a lot of different areas and to help guide women to just make their way through these transformations, make their, you know, to heal, to, I mean, it it's literally in our like what to we heal and then we, you know, we transform and then we thrive.
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:37.599
You know, it's just it's it's the it's the absolute fabric of why we exist.
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:46.640
Oh, I mean, our values, our my I should say, my values are completely in alignment with Silver Awakening.
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:47.839
Oh, for sure.
00:31:48.000 --> 00:32:02.079
And it's so important that we find mentors and counselors and other women and friendships and support that are in alignment with our values for who we are now.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:07.839
Who we are now, who we are now, yeah.
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:17.599
And I think that this notion of for me, I call it the sacred pause, it's vital to creating a new chapter.
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:31.839
I agree for those of us who are over 50 and we've experienced our bodies now needing different self-care, our emotions needing to be honored, you know.
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:35.359
Healing isn't ignoring, right?
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:41.039
Being brave enough and not afraid to face the truth of us.
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:42.960
Absolutely.
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:43.839
All right.
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:59.440
Well, I'm gonna ask another question of you for all of our silver sisters that are sitting around watching this wonderful interview, um, who right in this moment may feel stuck, overwhelmed, unsure of what's coming next.
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.119
What message would you like for her to hear today?
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:08.640
You are worthy of your attention.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.359
That needs to be a t-shirt.
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:14.559
I love it.
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:15.920
I love it.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.960
You are worthy of your attention.
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.480
You are worthy, you are worthy.
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:52.240
Of your attention, and I think the roles of women, you know, as mothers, as, you know, life partners to others, as caregivers, and especially women in our in the 50s, um, that's like the sandwich general life where you've got aging parents and kids that are you know needing you more than they did even when they were three years old.
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.000
Yeah, exactly.
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:55.519
That exactly.
00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:06.160
That our caregiving nurturing roles is really, I would say, a lot of codependent behaviors.
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:08.800
Hey, Messes.
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:16.960
You know, where it's like yourself, you know, yeah.
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:19.679
You're selfish, you're selfish.
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:21.599
Oh, I know, I know.
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:32.320
These other people have valid claims on you, you know, like you know, these are my children, this is my mother, this is my husband, this is my wife, you know.
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:38.639
We we we we view that all of these people have legitimate claims on uh us, right?
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:52.639
That it comes as kind of a surprise too, I'm worthy of my attention, of my self-care.
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:53.599
Yeah.
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:59.039
And that's I don't I don't, you know, I know I don't want to get all preachy here.
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:00.960
I that's just the bottom line for me.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:08.239
You are well, and we and we said, we said in the very beginning, you know, I mean, what's the what's the thing that's gonna go out the window first?
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:10.159
Your own personal self-care.
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:10.719
Boom.
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:12.719
It's the first thing that's gonna go.
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:23.440
And to be able to, through your course, through other offerings, just for women to understand how important that is, we have got to get back to taking care of ourselves.
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:27.119
We have to become a priority in our own life, period.
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:29.840
Especially at this stage in our life.
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:38.239
I mean, if not now, when yeah, if not now, when and and add this little whammy, guilt free.
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:45.920
Love that, love that guilt-free, guilt-free, self-free.
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:51.280
I love that radical, guilt-free self-care.
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:55.119
You are worthy of you are worthy of.
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:07.920
It's so to recognize you're not alone on this.
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:09.039
No, no, no.
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:15.840
I think some of us have been taught that this is an inside job and you have to do it alone.
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.400
Um, I I would say no.
00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:23.760
It it's like, you know, I I was very influenced by the first waves of feminism.
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:25.039
Yes, yes, yes.
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:31.039
Um the personal is political, yes, and sisterhood is powerful.
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:32.480
Yes, it is.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:39.519
And I think, I think we are seeing a beautiful resurgence, you know, coming back to the forefront.
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:44.000
And especially, you know, and we've done we've done our homework here.
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:51.920
This particular age group, 50 women, 50 and older, are completely negated by our society.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:54.400
Like they are just put out the pasture.
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:55.039
That's it.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:01.679
You know, they're being they're being aged out of their jobs, they're being aged out of life, they're being they're they're being made invisible.
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:04.320
And we are not, we are not.
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:06.639
Who was um who was it?
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:11.760
Um the wasn't it the Dalai Lama who said it's gonna be the grandmothers that save the world?
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:16.159
Oh yeah, oh yeah, some some great somebody said that it was gorgeous.
00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:20.159
And Americans say that you know, women hold up the sky.
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:22.559
Yes, we do, yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:27.119
And do I have a minute to to say something about this?
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:28.880
About sure, sure, sure.
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:29.840
Go ahead.
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:37.360
Okay, Sharon, I feel like I have been preparing my whole life to be an old dame.
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:39.679
Me too.
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:48.239
I I I taught graduate psychology courses on women in aging.
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:49.920
Oh, that's great.
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:50.880
I remember that.
00:37:52.480 --> 00:38:15.119
In my early 30s, I wow finished my master's degree, which was feminist therapy, and then I went to the Institute on Aging PhD program, and I thought I'm gonna specialize in aging because at that time I thought I thought that wow, when I'm old, that's how I used to think of it.
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:23.920
Yeah, yeah, when I'm old, the baby booners are gonna be the dominant traffic in the United States.
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:28.719
Somehow I believed that that was going to give us power.
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:38.159
That we, the baby, I was going, I'm gonna get ready for this aging thing because we're gonna be so.
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:45.599
I go to the Institute on Aging, and I'm hoping I'm gonna get all sorts of, you know, it was so pharmaceutical.
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:51.599
They were talking in this PhD program about drugs and meds for elder.
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:53.360
Oh, but this is not a good thing.
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:53.920
No, no, no.
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:54.639
No, no.
00:38:54.880 --> 00:39:07.599
I turned to San Francisco and I went to a couple of and I taught at New College, I taught at Antioch University, I taught at several universities, graduate psychology, women in aging.
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:16.960
And when women would come to the class and see there was this like 30-some-year-old, and I'm going, no, yeah.
00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:23.199
And I remember one class I invite I would invite inspirational women.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:24.239
I love that.
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:25.519
Oh, I love that.
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:27.760
One class, it was my favorite.
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:30.320
I invited the gray panthers.
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:31.679
Oh, I love that.
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:35.199
They rolled in dressed in gray leather.
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:39.679
Oh, I love that on motorcycles, all of them.
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:40.880
Oh my gosh.
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:52.079
On motorcycles in gray leather, and they came in, and there were about eight of them in their little group that came, and they just laid it on in the wow.
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:56.079
You know, you got oh man, what a master class right there.
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:57.840
It was yeah, what a master class.
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:14.079
I had many different women come and speak from different cultures, um, trans women, yeah, uh, women of different cultures, and it taught me so much.
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:25.519
But I remember in my 30s looking forward to being an elder, being a crone, yeah, dame who's joyful.
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:39.920
Um, and I hope that we can serve each other well in realizing that in spite of society just not keeping up with us.
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:41.280
I love it.
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:42.639
I love it.
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:48.559
So, Carmella, from the bottom of my heart, I have loved every conversation you and I have ever had.
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:55.920
You take me, you take me to the depths of very provoking uh thoughts and questions.
00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:05.519
And I could have kept you busy for three hours because I love your brain, I love the way that it works, and I love what you're doing for our community.
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.199
So thank you.
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:10.159
Thank you, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:10.559
Thank you.
00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:13.759
Welcome to Silver Talks.
00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:15.519
I'm your host, Sharon Ryan.
00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:21.440
Silver Talks is a beautiful online platform that we created for women 50 and older.
00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.800
We come together in community and sisterhood.
00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:30.640
We share our lived experiences, our wisdom, our sorrows and our pains.
00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:34.320
You can cry, you can laugh, you can do everything in between.
00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:43.920
I have the most wonderful pleasure in introducing to you someone who I deeply care about, Carmella Carlisle.
00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:47.600
She is a partner within Silver Awakening.
00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:49.200
She is one of our mentors.
00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:55.119
She also has created an incredible course for us to dive into this fall.
00:00:55.359 --> 00:01:02.719
And that course has the subject of transformative tools, which is what we're going to be diving into today.
00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:05.280
So a little bit about Carmilla.
00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:14.640
She's a psychotherapist, she's an educator, and she has specialized women through their life transitions for the past 30 plus years.
00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:19.439
So Carmela, welcome and thank you so much for being here with me.
00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:21.280
Thank you, Sharon.
00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:27.120
So Carmela, Carmilla, you spent 30 years doing this, or over 30 years, I think.
00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:34.879
You've got you've got an extensive, beautiful background, which I'm you I'm happy for you to share a bit with our audience.
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:43.359
But what I want to jump into the very first question that I've been thinking about prior to our interview.
00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:59.760
As a psychotherapist, as an educator, as a woman who's been doing this for so long, why is change so difficult for women, especially 50 and older?
00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:01.040
Yeah.
00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:14.800
Well, you know, Sharon, there is a natural resistance to admitting that our former life choices no longer suit us.
00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:21.039
But we've outgrown the decisions that we made in our lives.
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:38.879
And I think sometimes it is the challenge of first accepting that maybe the people in our lives, the relationships, our work, our goals, they no longer fit who we are.
00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:46.000
And I think the struggle for authenticity is the underlying rub.
00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:53.439
Yeah, that we we feel that we're not operating from a place of authenticity, and that's unsettling.
00:02:54.800 --> 00:03:16.000
We know from uh neurobiology, psychotherapy, and just life that human beings will choose chaos and dysfunctional behaviors that are familiar over the unfamiliar.
00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:26.560
It's a natural human response to want to defend and cling to what we've always done before.
00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:29.199
That's very interesting, Carmel.
00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:31.199
So let me let me ask you this.
00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:50.479
If we do you find that, especially women who have crossed over the age of 50, is it is it that we've gotten so habitually set in our ways to back to that comfort thing that you were talking about, how we'll just ease right back into the chaos or the drama?
00:03:51.039 --> 00:04:04.479
Um is it is it uh I don't, I know this is going to sound not the way that I wanted to come, like trying to teach an old dog new tricks, like remapping the way that you think about things after 50.
00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:10.240
You know, do you see do you see any of the pushbacks on those types of things?
00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:11.439
Absolutely.
00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:16.720
And may I add here that this old dog can't learn new tricks?
00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:17.680
That's nonsense.
00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:27.279
And contemporary neurobiology tells us that our brains, neuroplasticity, our brains can change.
00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:32.879
You know, people say, oh, I'm too that's a that's a belief that gets in the way of moving forward.
00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:38.079
I'm too old to change, or you know, or it's gotta be hard.
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:39.439
That's another one.
00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:54.639
You know, these old dogs, new trick stuff, nah, you know, I think that one of the things that I like to always explore with my clients in individual sessions, as well as in this exciting upcoming new class.
00:04:55.040 --> 00:05:07.439
Yes, in order to move forward, we need to forgive ourselves with compassion for what we did not know in our previous chapters.
00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:08.720
Amen.
00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:10.800
Amen.
00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:17.839
I mean that I think when you ask about the barriers for change, that's a big one.
00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.680
You know, so many of us get stuck there.
00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:23.680
It's it's for goodness.
00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:29.439
I didn't know then when I was 30, 40, 26, 22.
00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:32.079
I didn't know then what I know now.
00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:33.360
And so exactly.
00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:39.120
I would like to encourage us to use that as an impetus for change.
00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:40.399
I love that.
00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:52.160
Carmela, you said something too in that previous, not this previous, but the answer before, about that authentic, uh authentic voice, finding that being true to yourself.
00:05:52.800 --> 00:06:02.879
One of do you find that as women age, um, that kind of all the drama stuff just starts falling away kind of naturally?
00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:11.439
They don't want it, they don't want, they don't want to be in the throes of it, and finding that their own voice when they've been, and we're all in the same age group.
00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:25.920
So we all are dealing with, you know, maybe some oppression when it comes to the feminine anything out in the world, our careers, you know, fighting our way through educational, you know, finding our standings in our families, you name it.
00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:36.720
Are you that is that something that sort of naturally happens within the evolution of sort of like aging into your authenticity?
00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:44.879
Is is that like a kind of a natural aging process that you've seen, or you know, like a characteristic, I would say, of the aging process?
00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:49.360
Well, I would I mean, there's a lot of factors at play.
00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:49.920
Okay.
00:06:50.399 --> 00:07:01.519
And it very well could be that the nature of my work and my energy attracts women who are in for change.
00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:03.120
You know, I like that.
00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:04.160
I like that.
00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:15.759
You know, that that my I, you know, my I have my clients with who are attracted to work with me, they're usually ready to get on with it.
00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:21.759
You know, in in my younger years when I was working in clinical settings, it was much different.
00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:31.120
I was working with women who were healing through trauma and uh sexual assault and domestic violence.
00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:35.680
And I would I was there in the trenches with that work.
00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:44.639
But as we age and as we evolve, I hope that women come to a healthy place of self-regard.
00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:45.759
I love this.
00:07:50.800 --> 00:08:02.160
Um I think the main piece that's here is we've got to be honest with ourselves.
00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:04.639
Ah, yes, that is so true.
00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:07.040
I mean that is so true.
00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:15.839
And healing can only happen as much as we're willing to face ourselves.
00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:18.560
I love that, Karma.
00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:19.920
That's beautiful.
00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:30.879
Can you speak a little bit about what's happening beneath the surface when we find ourselves entering a brand new chapter in our lives?
00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:42.639
And let's just say for Women 50 Plus, as they're moving through massive transitions, aging out of jobs, possible divorce, empty nest, all of these things.
00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:49.679
Like, can you speak a little bit about what's happening underneath, especially with the women that you've worked with?
00:08:50.399 --> 00:09:08.080
Well, I okay, last week I had uh a new client come to me who was completely feeling lost because her kids, might I add, they're like 32 and 29.
00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:13.200
Okay, and they still think they're married and they want to move on.
00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:28.399
But her perception is that her life has no meaning because her identity was so wrapped up there that it was this plunge.
00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:34.799
It was it was as if you know, when we think of empty nesters, we often think that it's like 18 or 100 years.
00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:37.600
Yeah, yeah, I'm yeah, that's where my head went.
00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:38.799
Yeah.
00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:53.279
Depending on where we identify and where we put our energy, change and new chapters can feel different, and they do for different women.
00:09:54.639 --> 00:10:03.759
And despite the fact that I have, like, yeah, I've worked in my field for 30 years, but it like you, I mean, in many different contexts.
00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:06.480
In many different capacities, yes, yes.
00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:20.639
Yeah, I I mean, yeah, so there's been these transitions where I was like, huh, I think that women need healing in the workplace because of the cultural and societal pressures on women.
00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:22.960
Oh, it's ridiculous.
00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:30.559
So I do think too, you know, going back to you, there is a cultural and societal influence on us.
00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:31.279
Absolutely.
00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:33.039
And that ships.
00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:41.039
But here's the thing when we age, is society telling us, oh, you go girl, you're better than ever.
00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:43.360
You're you're a fine wine.
00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:46.399
That's what you uh I don't think so.
00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:48.639
We're not seeing it, not yet.
00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:50.480
I mean, Host Springs Eternal, right?
00:10:51.600 --> 00:11:05.039
Ageism, sexism, yes, yes, and even the limitations in our own families, yes, who were like, well, uh, who have demands on women, right?
00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:10.159
That aren't saying, yeah, mom, you I think this would be great.
00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:13.679
Try right like, oh, what about uh my kids?
00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:15.840
Aren't you gonna be able to babysit?
00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:22.960
Or life partners, uh same gender or otherwise.
00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:27.600
We get into a rut in our personal relationships, right?
00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:36.799
And all of these factors, I don't want to sound grim here, but I'm a realist about challenges we're facing.
00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:43.600
So we need to be there here for each other, and that's what Silver Awakening is doing.
00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:45.279
Amen to that.
00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:46.639
Amen to that.
00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:54.080
So let's let's talk a little bit about you're working, you're working with Silver Awakening in in two different capacities.
00:11:54.320 --> 00:12:00.960
Um, you're a mentor, you're actually one of our advising mentors, which means that's a big deal in our world.
00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:10.879
So you're a mentor, and you are going to be working with um one-on-ones uh with individuals coming into Silver Awakenings that are gravitated towards your work.
00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:18.559
You also have so graciously created a beautiful course for us to launch with in the fall.
00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:25.039
That was and your course is all around those transformative tools.
00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:32.720
Um, but you begin your course with this idea of releasing and creating space.
00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.200
And it's very prominent through your work.
00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.440
Could you please speak to us a little bit about that and why that's so significant?
00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:50.879
It it I guess it's related to what we were just speaking about, the the beliefs that we hold to be true, and that's how I view it.
00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:54.240
The beliefs we hold to be true.
00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:55.120
Right.
00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:56.720
Are they true?
00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:57.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:58.320 --> 00:12:59.919
Did they used to be true?
00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:03.840
Are they no longer our truth?
00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:23.519
We have all of us beliefs that we have absorbed or held on to, that we define ourselves by, that were really um, I'll I'll use the heart inflicted upon us.
00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:25.279
Yes, yes.
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:32.080
And we we need to get conscious that if those beliefs, where did they come from?
00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:36.159
We need to examine what do I hold to be true?
00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:38.799
Is it still applicable?
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.879
Yes, importantly, does it serve me?
00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:45.840
Does it bring me joy?
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:47.600
Does it bring me happiness?
00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:49.919
Where am I sitting with myself?
00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:56.080
So that's another interesting part of your work because a lot of your work is a somatic experience.
00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:56.879
Yes.
00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:09.919
The person, you know, the course is so um incredibly designed in the fact that we're not we're not we're not attending to the student through this cerebral process.
00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:22.799
What we're doing is you have created this beautiful palette of tools that you're gonna be sharing with your students and you're gonna be walking them through those processes of why that's important.
00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:26.799
But can you speak a little bit about the toolbox itself?
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:29.759
Well, yeah.
00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:34.080
I'm going to go to a Japanese proverb here.
00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:36.000
Oh, I love Japanese proverbs.
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:58.159
I mean, I'll I'll tell you I've used it through the years for myself, for others, where this very intentional, you know, earnest student comes to the master and she says, I I I want to learn everything.
00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:01.440
I want to grow, I want to expand.
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:06.480
I've been reading your books on studying.
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:09.279
I am re I I am here.
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:16.799
I am and and she went on about all the self-help books that she read, doctrines, and her studies.
00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:24.399
And the the teacher, the master says, uh, she says, Um, would you like some tea?
00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:29.600
And the earnest, wanting to be student, says, Oh, yes, thank you.
00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:39.519
And the teacher took the teapot and just kept pouring, and the tea was just overflowed everywhere.
00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:44.159
And she was aghast, like, what goes on here?
00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:49.200
And the teacher said, Come back to me when you've emptied your cup.
00:15:50.480 --> 00:16:01.440
Beautiful starting point for starting is how are we gonna get a fresh pour in life unless we empty our cup?
00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:10.720
We've got to take the pause to self-reflect on our spend the time with ourselves.
00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:18.720
I I have been a uh psychology professor, I've been a training specialist for human development in the workplace.
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:28.320
Yeah, and I understand adult learning theory, I understand learning objectives, they apply for certain subject matter.
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:39.279
Right, but when the subject is you and your own self-discovery, I don't want to be lecturing in front of a classroom.
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:58.080
I sign up as a gentle guide and for women who sign up for the class to allocate that hour of consciousness, receptivity, self-discovery.
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:00.559
I cannot wait.
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:04.240
I cannot wait to see what comes out of this and the responses that we get.
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:14.799
But with tools that they can take home and work with, and it is work, and Silver Awakening is gifting everyone a journal, a Silver Awakening journal.
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:20.559
Oh, I love that.
00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:21.920
I love that.
00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:29.440
So I designed the class specifically to afford women, because it's very hard for women to do this.
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.599
I understand allocate self-care me time.
00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:34.960
Yes.
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:37.599
What's the first thing that goes?
00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:39.599
Allocating self-care me time.
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:41.599
First thing out the door.
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:50.559
Women can see that giving themselves an hour on a Wednesday evening to make you get in comfy clothes.
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:54.880
You don't have to do your makeup or your hair, you're not gonna be on camera.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:17.119
Yeah, you're going to be in your own home with your journal, experiencing the crystal bowl sound healing, experiencing new tools, altar building to make the intention that you hold physical, you know, and that uh altering your inner narrative.
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:25.920
We're going to work with tools that I think, Sharon, are better served in sacred privacy.
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.920
Um being gently guided.
00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:31.680
Yes, that's gorgeous.
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:50.799
Well, and that brings me to my next question because you seem to have a wonderful way of interweaving the practicality of psychology to the mind, body, spirit, wholeness, holistic thing.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:52.480
You bring that all in.
00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:59.200
I mean, it's all available to you and the way that you work with your clientele.
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.640
How did these two worlds collide?
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.759
Is that even well, you know, yeah.
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:10.079
I mean, well, let me just say this.
00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:12.720
Uh, aging has served me well.
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:13.279
Yes.
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:15.119
Yes.
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:25.279
The as a younger woman, um, subject to the scrutiny that I was for my, you know, professional skills.
00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:26.160
Yes.
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:43.680
I, when I was a younger woman, I was remiss in being brave enough to introduce what I knew to be true for the value of meditation, creative visualization, um, the divine feminine archetypes.
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.319
You know, I I I one of my own personal loves.
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:48.799
Yes.
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:54.480
And, you know, the Jungian in me and the yogini in me.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:20:00.079
I started practicing yoga and meditation when I was 21 years old.
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.480
I am so fortunate I came to these practices.
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:08.960
But Sharon, like many women, I kept that separate.
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:12.960
I didn't want I didn't want to be labeled woo-woo.
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:14.000
Right.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:22.319
I mean, even though I was working in the University of California system, which was pretty flexible for this.
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:23.759
Yes.
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:30.799
I mean, there for a while I was training scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:31.920
No kidding.
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:43.279
I was working at UC Berkeley with staff who were wanting to achieve and move forward, you know, and an advocate for diversity.
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:50.400
So it took me, I'm not going to say that I always was so integrative.
00:20:50.720 --> 00:21:01.920
It took me years to claim my skills and my insights and to integrate what you and I have talked about this.
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.000
The ancient ones of yoga and meditation.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:06.960
Absolutely.
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.480
Neurobiology confirms this.
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:12.079
Absolutely.
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:17.359
And you have segueed once again so beautifully, right into my next question.
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.039
Neurobiology, neurobiology.
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:28.720
A huge, expansive, fascinating, amazing field that we are entering into.
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:34.079
Um, I it is it is a a college course all in of itself.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:44.160
It's a degree, but I'm gonna ask you if you can, if you could just somewhat define that, just a smidge inside of this work.
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:46.880
Okay.
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:59.759
Contemporary neurobiology is the study of how our brain and our bodies and our thoughts.
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.440
Our bodies remember everything.
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:13.519
That's why when we're looking at trauma, the body holds trauma.
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:24.319
When we women are not comfortable in our bodies, when we don't feel safe, and that's a lot of work to get to feel safe in our bodies.
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:31.359
We overthink it's all connected.
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:40.880
The more safety we can cultivate within ourselves and loving compassion for our bodies.
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:50.799
Especially as we age, I think that many of my clients are dealing with a sense of betrayal with their bodies.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:23:01.680
They're going through menopause, they're going through perimenopause, then menopause, and it's like their their senses like it never used to be like this.
00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:06.160
And yet their bodies are betraying them.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:13.519
When our bodies are actually asking for different kinds of support.
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:24.880
This is supported completely with neuroscience that our brains, everything we say to ourselves, oh my word.
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:36.240
Okay, here's an example.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:38.079
I should give a practical example.
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.480
I'm a student of neurobiology.
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:44.400
Uh right, I I've I've done crystal bowls in hospitals.
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:52.640
I've had the luxury of having doctors and nurses on my team, being able to look at what the brain does.
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:53.119
Right.
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:53.920
Right.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:59.839
I mean, blood tests to see how we can lower the blood pressure with material.
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:01.200
Wow.
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:04.000
We are it's all connected.
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:16.640
But here's a here's one that just really imagine if every thought you had was printed out on a ticker tape.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:17.920
Oh my god.
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.359
It would wrap around the planet 500 times, probably.
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:27.920
And how much of it would be, darling, you're fabulous, you've got this.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:41.440
How much of it would be, I am powerful, I welcome change, I honor this body and all it can do.
00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:55.759
How much of our ticker tape, you know, of our self-inner narrative would serve us, you know, like I think we women are critical of ourselves.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.000
We've internalized this as I don't know, tough love.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:01.279
It's not love.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:12.559
And neuroscience confirms that the vibration of our inner narrative activates disease.
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:16.240
Of course, in our body.
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:18.400
So it's all connected.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.920
And I'm not going to make this a science class.
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.880
Yeah, no, I no, totally understood, which is very experiential and it's gorgeous.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:28.640
It's gorgeous for that reason.
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.279
The way that you developed this was pitch perfect.
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:41.039
But I want women to come into an understanding and to cherish their nervous system.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.880
And we have more power than we think.
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:46.480
Oh, for sure.
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:52.079
To shift from that stressful, I gotta survive mode, right?
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.480
Overachiever, perfection, right, all that.
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.759
That's all on the sympathetic nervous system.
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:03.680
The healing happens in the parasympathetic.
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:16.640
And that's really actually, Sharon, I think that's one of the goals of my class is to invite women to get a glimpse of how that feels and dwell there for a little bit.
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:42.799
Well, I think that that's beautiful, Carmela, because I can also see, you know, uh so many other areas, once they're taught the skills, once they're once they're taught how significant these different um transformative practices can be, then they can start to overlay that in multiple areas of their life, you know, even just getting a sense of having to calm themselves down, you know, anything.
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:46.079
I mean, I it's endless, it's absolutely endless.
00:26:46.319 --> 00:27:11.839
Well, we're gonna we're gonna move on a little bit here and we're gonna talk about one of your transformative tools um that again is there's this focus, and I'm gonna ask you to go into this from a psychological level, but releasing the past and then creating your present future through this experiential journey.
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:22.079
Can you sort of like help me understand what that means, like through the process of what they'll be learning through the class?
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:35.680
You know, is this on a subconscious level that you're starting to open up different channels within your students to help them like, I don't know, get glimpses of inspiration?
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:37.680
Or am I just overthinking this?
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.599
Or well, it it's a lot, yeah.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.039
Okay, I've broken it down into accessible lessons.
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.759
And the goal here is awareness.
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:57.839
My clients very often will go aha, they'll have these aha's.
00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:58.880
Oh, I love that.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:04.960
And I don't think that we access that through lectures, we access it through experience.
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:05.519
Yeah.
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:07.759
Here's an example.
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:15.680
I'm working with a client who grew up in a very chaotic environment, home environment.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:27.759
The the lights would be turned off, the bills weren't being paid, she would be handed money to take on the subway to go pay the rent because her parents were unreliable.
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:43.599
And she came from that chaos through her work to be a beautifully stable woman with a great job and advocate and a loving husband.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:50.960
She didn't marry till her 40s because she was so distracted with taking care of her in her family.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:29:03.279
Um and in our last session, she said, you know, Carnella, but I'm loving all this peace that I'm feeling with our work.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.599
She goes, but I gotta tell you, it gets a bit boring.
00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:11.279
Oh, because she's not in the chaos.
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:27.599
She went to have a hysterectomy, and her major concern was not the surgery or the pain, but how bored she was gonna be, just quote, laying around, you know.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:41.200
And I think that that's when we start looking at what we need to let go, sometimes it's we need to recognize that our nervous systems are still in survival mode.
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:52.000
Oh my god, and then you pack a bunch of years on top of that because of however old you are, and you've been putting your poor body through this for forever.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:30:03.839
And and and I think we're not really often because we live in a culture that say you know, for our wonderful women at Silver Awakening who want to make a life transition.
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:04.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:06.400
What have we been taught?
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:10.799
You know, you know, no pain, no gain.
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:26.720
Um, we live in a culture that applauds achievement and pushing and the value, the power of receptivity of the sacred pause to receive.
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:28.799
So beautifully said.
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:40.240
I mean, so that we are afraid of being bored because what we've learned are survival approaches that are outdated, they don't serve us.
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:52.559
So, what what I'm saying to you about this class is I want the women to become aware of behaviors and beliefs that maybe they worked in the past, but they're not working now.
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:58.799
So we need to not be afraid of being softer.
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:01.200
I love that.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:09.119
Oh, you just speak to my heart every single time I talk to you because this is exactly this is exactly why we created Silver Awakenings.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:09.839
This is it.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:33.200
This is this is the whole foundation of this, is to have incredible people like you at the helm of a lot of different areas and to help guide women to just make their way through these transformations, make their, you know, to heal, to, I mean, it it's literally in our like what to we heal and then we, you know, we transform and then we thrive.
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:37.599
You know, it's just it's it's the it's the absolute fabric of why we exist.
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:46.640
Oh, I mean, our values, our my I should say, my values are completely in alignment with Silver Awakening.
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:47.839
Oh, for sure.
00:31:48.000 --> 00:32:02.079
And it's so important that we find mentors and counselors and other women and friendships and support that are in alignment with our values for who we are now.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:07.839
Who we are now, who we are now, yeah.
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:17.599
And I think that this notion of for me, I call it the sacred pause, it's vital to creating a new chapter.
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:31.839
I agree for those of us who are over 50 and we've experienced our bodies now needing different self-care, our emotions needing to be honored, you know.
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:35.359
Healing isn't ignoring, right?
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:41.039
Being brave enough and not afraid to face the truth of us.
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:42.960
Absolutely.
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:43.839
All right.
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:59.440
Well, I'm gonna ask another question of you for all of our silver sisters that are sitting around watching this wonderful interview, um, who right in this moment may feel stuck, overwhelmed, unsure of what's coming next.
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.119
What message would you like for her to hear today?
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:08.640
You are worthy of your attention.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.359
That needs to be a t-shirt.
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:14.559
I love it.
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:15.920
I love it.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.960
You are worthy of your attention.
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.480
You are worthy, you are worthy.
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:52.240
Of your attention, and I think the roles of women, you know, as mothers, as, you know, life partners to others, as caregivers, and especially women in our in the 50s, um, that's like the sandwich general life where you've got aging parents and kids that are you know needing you more than they did even when they were three years old.
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.000
Yeah, exactly.
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:55.519
That exactly.
00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:06.160
That our caregiving nurturing roles is really, I would say, a lot of codependent behaviors.
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:08.800
Hey, Messes.
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:16.960
You know, where it's like yourself, you know, yeah.
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:19.679
You're selfish, you're selfish.
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:21.599
Oh, I know, I know.
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:32.320
These other people have valid claims on you, you know, like you know, these are my children, this is my mother, this is my husband, this is my wife, you know.
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:38.639
We we we we view that all of these people have legitimate claims on uh us, right?
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:52.639
That it comes as kind of a surprise too, I'm worthy of my attention, of my self-care.
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:53.599
Yeah.
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:59.039
And that's I don't I don't, you know, I know I don't want to get all preachy here.
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:00.960
I that's just the bottom line for me.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:08.239
You are well, and we and we said, we said in the very beginning, you know, I mean, what's the what's the thing that's gonna go out the window first?
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:10.159
Your own personal self-care.
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:10.719
Boom.
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:12.719
It's the first thing that's gonna go.
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:23.440
And to be able to, through your course, through other offerings, just for women to understand how important that is, we have got to get back to taking care of ourselves.
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:27.119
We have to become a priority in our own life, period.
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:29.840
Especially at this stage in our life.
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:38.239
I mean, if not now, when yeah, if not now, when and and add this little whammy, guilt free.
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:45.920
Love that, love that guilt-free, guilt-free, self-free.
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:51.280
I love that radical, guilt-free self-care.
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:55.119
You are worthy of you are worthy of.
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:07.920
It's so to recognize you're not alone on this.
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:09.039
No, no, no.
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:15.840
I think some of us have been taught that this is an inside job and you have to do it alone.
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.400
Um, I I would say no.
00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:23.760
It it's like, you know, I I was very influenced by the first waves of feminism.
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:25.039
Yes, yes, yes.
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:31.039
Um the personal is political, yes, and sisterhood is powerful.
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:32.480
Yes, it is.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:39.519
And I think, I think we are seeing a beautiful resurgence, you know, coming back to the forefront.
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:44.000
And especially, you know, and we've done we've done our homework here.
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:51.920
This particular age group, 50 women, 50 and older, are completely negated by our society.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:54.400
Like they are just put out the pasture.
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:55.039
That's it.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:01.679
You know, they're being they're being aged out of their jobs, they're being aged out of life, they're being they're they're being made invisible.
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:04.320
And we are not, we are not.
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:06.639
Who was um who was it?
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:11.760
Um the wasn't it the Dalai Lama who said it's gonna be the grandmothers that save the world?
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:16.159
Oh yeah, oh yeah, some some great somebody said that it was gorgeous.
00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:20.159
And Americans say that you know, women hold up the sky.
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:22.559
Yes, we do, yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:27.119
And do I have a minute to to say something about this?
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:28.880
About sure, sure, sure.
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:29.840
Go ahead.
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:37.360
Okay, Sharon, I feel like I have been preparing my whole life to be an old dame.
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:39.679
Me too.
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:48.239
I I I taught graduate psychology courses on women in aging.
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:49.920
Oh, that's great.
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:50.880
I remember that.
00:37:52.480 --> 00:38:15.119
In my early 30s, I wow finished my master's degree, which was feminist therapy, and then I went to the Institute on Aging PhD program, and I thought I'm gonna specialize in aging because at that time I thought I thought that wow, when I'm old, that's how I used to think of it.
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:23.920
Yeah, yeah, when I'm old, the baby booners are gonna be the dominant traffic in the United States.
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:28.719
Somehow I believed that that was going to give us power.
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:38.159
That we, the baby, I was going, I'm gonna get ready for this aging thing because we're gonna be so.
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:45.599
I go to the Institute on Aging, and I'm hoping I'm gonna get all sorts of, you know, it was so pharmaceutical.
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:51.599
They were talking in this PhD program about drugs and meds for elder.
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:53.360
Oh, but this is not a good thing.
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:53.920
No, no, no.
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:54.639
No, no.
00:38:54.880 --> 00:39:07.599
I turned to San Francisco and I went to a couple of and I taught at New College, I taught at Antioch University, I taught at several universities, graduate psychology, women in aging.
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:16.960
And when women would come to the class and see there was this like 30-some-year-old, and I'm going, no, yeah.
00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:23.199
And I remember one class I invite I would invite inspirational women.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:24.239
I love that.
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:25.519
Oh, I love that.
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:27.760
One class, it was my favorite.
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:30.320
I invited the gray panthers.
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:31.679
Oh, I love that.
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:35.199
They rolled in dressed in gray leather.
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:39.679
Oh, I love that on motorcycles, all of them.
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:40.880
Oh my gosh.
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:52.079
On motorcycles in gray leather, and they came in, and there were about eight of them in their little group that came, and they just laid it on in the wow.
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:56.079
You know, you got oh man, what a master class right there.
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:57.840
It was yeah, what a master class.
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:14.079
I had many different women come and speak from different cultures, um, trans women, yeah, uh, women of different cultures, and it taught me so much.
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:25.519
But I remember in my 30s looking forward to being an elder, being a crone, yeah, dame who's joyful.
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:39.920
Um, and I hope that we can serve each other well in realizing that in spite of society just not keeping up with us.
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:41.280
I love it.
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:42.639
I love it.
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:48.559
So, Carmella, from the bottom of my heart, I have loved every conversation you and I have ever had.
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:55.920
You take me, you take me to the depths of very provoking uh thoughts and questions.
00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:05.519
And I could have kept you busy for three hours because I love your brain, I love the way that it works, and I love what you're doing for our community.
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.199
So thank you.
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:10.159
Thank you, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:10.559
Thank you.
