WEBVTT
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[SPEAKER_00]: your stuck in an argument.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's the same fight you have every few weeks.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's a standoff where nobody budges.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe somebody gets really quiet or passive aggressive instead of just saying what's wrong.
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[SPEAKER_00]: All three have the same root cause.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're arguing the facts and no one's talking about what's happening underneath those words.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever's happening emotionally is
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're arguing the facts, hoping that'll help, but it doesn't because you're focusing on the wrong thing, and you know it because you're done it under times.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We connect through feelings, not thoughts, and until someone names the feelings, the facts just keep circling.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So today, I'm giving you my two-step process to shift this dynamic so you can start connecting instead of going around in circles, so stay tuned.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Relationships Made Easy Podcast, where I give you the exact steps to create connection, joy and ease and all your relationships, whether it's with your partner, your family, your friends, or most importantly yourself.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dr. Abbey Medkath, psychologist, bestselling author, TEDx, speaker, and the bossy Jewish mom you didn't know you needed.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Each week you'll get no nonsense, research back strategies, serve with humor and love, so you can stop second-guessing yourself and start having the relationships you deserve.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You'll always leave knowing exactly what to say and do to shift your relationships for the better.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's get to it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And this is maybe the most important episode you're ever going to hear.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How do you like that?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a melodrama much, Abby, yes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because this is the thing underneath the thing, underneath the thing, underneath the thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is what counselors do when we're effective.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is how you shift conversations.
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[SPEAKER_00]: every conversation and especially every disagreement has two layers happening at once, every single one.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But only one of them usually gets talked about.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's the first layer because it's what everybody's saying.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's the content, the facts, the evidence, the specific topic you're discussing or arguing about or whatever, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: The second more important layer is what's underneath that and it's what we psychologists generally call a process and I'm going to explain what that is what's underneath the content that the facts that the words of what you're saying is what's really going on between you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: the power struggle, the resentment, the anxiety, the jealousy, the insecurity, the fear of not being heard, all of that, and you're focusing on the content, on the words, on explaining, justifying, explaining again, trying different words, but it doesn't move the conversation forward, and you're just, you're feeling more and more frustrated and so is the other person.
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[SPEAKER_00]: focusing on your words instead of the feelings driving them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I often say is like pulling the battery out when a smoke alarm goes off.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You've stopped the noise but the building is still burning that your home is still on fire.
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[SPEAKER_00]: arguing the facts or, you know, getting someone to acquiesce might stop the noise in the moment, but it doesn't put out the fire.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you have the same fight again, or that person is past some aggressive later, and it's because the feelings haven't been resolved.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to teach you this today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the other person will usually be upset in some way.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And instead of talking about how they're feeling, they might go cold or they might agree that, you know, to something they don't want to agree to or don't mean or something or they Sometimes they make a comment with an edge, you know that comment, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you call it out, they deny the edge at all, you know, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And nobody ever says, hey, what's happening here?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's exactly what is keeping you stuck in these kind of circular disagreements that seem to have no end, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You say it, they say it, you say it, they say nothing is really happening.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The resentment is building.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, that's not, that's a lot.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Something is happening.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The resentment is building.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The frustration.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The same low grade friction, it's going to keep showing up in different forms, and nobody's talking about what's happening underneath all that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody's talking about the feelings, the unconscious, the sometimes conscious motivations that are driving every single conversation you have.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Virginia Cityer, who's, she's often referred to as like the mother, a family therapy, she spent years listening to how people communicate under stress, and she very famously named four patterns that people fall into when they feel like, when they feel threatened, specifically they feel like their self-esteem is threatened, but I would say anyway they feel threatened.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And this is what is always coming up when you're talking to somebody every time and having anything that just and again it doesn't always feel like a disagreement you feel like you're just talking and you're missing each other you're like what is happening here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So somebody goes quiet, they agree to everything.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, they're seeding later, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's obviously where a lot of the passive aggressive behavior comes from.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The third is what she called computing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's basically when somebody turns into a lawyer.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They're laying out all the facts.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I say, would love to all my lawyers.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They're laying out the facts, the evidence, like it's a closing argument, like they're in court.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So this is when one of the defense mechanisms here is intellectualization, where they're just intellectualizing everything.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the fourth is distracting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That might be where somebody makes a joke or changes the subject to get everybody off of it entirely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And when you start identifying what pattern someone is in, including yourself, of course, you can see that they are kind of unknowingly playing a role.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that role is what's leading the conversation really, not the word you're saying, the role.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And
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[SPEAKER_00]: that, you know, that's what I'm talking about when I talk about what's underneath, the thing that's driving your interaction usually comes from one of those four places.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, so let's talk about what's happening underneath the argument, because every message you sent, or I underneath the conversation, again, this doesn't always have to be a disagreement, but I think that's mostly when people get frustrated.
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[SPEAKER_00]: every message you send does two things at once.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It gives information.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's the first right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's the words.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it says something about how you're relating to each other right this minute.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And when that second part, the relating part sounds like contempt or dismissal, you know, they're dismissive somehow, it doesn't matter how right the content the words are.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know it
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, so that, and that's the point of today, I guess is what I want to say.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a communication researcher named Paul.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I never get this man's last name right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's, I'll have it on the blog.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like Watts, Watts, Louis, I want to say it's Watts, Louis.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But he wrote about, he's pretty famous in the psychology community.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He wrote about back in the 1960s, he was writing about all this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to tell you, it holds up today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: His stuff has been re-verified over and over every message.
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[SPEAKER_00]: again, has a content layer and a relationship layer and the relationship layer decides how the content gets heard.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say that again.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm talking about today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The content layer, the words, the facts, whatever you're saying, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's the relationship layer, what's going underneath, how you feel about this person, if you're blaming what's going on,
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[SPEAKER_00]: doesn't matter what you say.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It depends on how the relationship is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's how it gets hurt.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you that like when I go in to do, let's say a corporate training or something, where I'm going in to work with someone.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If
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[SPEAKER_00]: If the people there already have met me, if I'm doing a training and I'm coming in maybe for part three or four, it goes way easier because people already trust me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They know me, they whatever, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: As opposed to the first time, when they're not sure, because the relationship has changed.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's true all the time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's why things change when you get to know someone more and the relationship changes, you get to trust them more, whatever, or you trust them less.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so no matter what they're saying on top,
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[SPEAKER_00]: depending on how the relationship is, is how that conversation's going to go.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you can be completely right about the facts and still lose in that exchange because what landed was whatever the relationship was.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they think you don't respect them, or you don't care about their feelings, or whatever that is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what the other person's reacting to, not the facts, not the information.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I know some of this, I'm going to say that, and you're like, well, yeah, that's obvious.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But you're not doing the thing you need to do if you really understand this and which is what I'm going to teach you today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I want to my clients was telling their teenager, they had an argument with their teenager.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they said something like, you were supposed to text me the second you got there, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's accurate.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They were supposed to text the moment they got there, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: The facts are accurate, there's a missed text.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But what her kid was hearing was you don't trust me, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's why you're supposed to text the moment you get there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They're hearing you don't trust me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They're not hearing you don't trust the world or they're hearing like you don't think I can take care of myself.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to fight
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[SPEAKER_00]: that that's the layer they're fighting you don't trust me not the timeline that that's not what they're fighting do you see what I mean like that this is the stuff that goes on all the time this is why arguing harder doesn't work you're trying to win on content but disagreement is happening on the relationship layer right and and words about the facts don't touch that feelings do feelings touch that
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let's, there's an elephant in the room here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's really funny, which is why does naming it out loud feel so strange?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Why does it feel so strange?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: name it out loud feels weird because you were never taught to do this outside, unless you've been to therapy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You were never taught this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's so rare to have been taught this otherwise.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, out here in the real world, it's basically a social rule you're not supposed to break.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay?
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[SPEAKER_00]: for real.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know how you know what I compare this to?
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's something in acting called breaking the fourth wall.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you know what this is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But basically it comes from theater, the theater.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And in the theater, right, there was a wall, you know, if you're an actor on a stage, there's a wall behind you, and there's a walls on either side, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the audience is sitting in front.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you're not supposed breaking the fourth wall is the times when those actors
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[SPEAKER_00]: or if you're watching a TV show, they talk directly to camera.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's very dis-decerting, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, it's dis-concerting in some ways because you're like, oh, what's going on here?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it can be really funny, very awkward, very weird, but you don't expect it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why the vast majority of,
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[SPEAKER_00]: plays and TV shows and movies do not break what they call the fourth wall.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They don't talk directly to you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what this is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's why it feels weird.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You are kind of breaking the fourth wall is what I'm telling you to do today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Group therapists have a name for this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of arguing the point, you name what's happening between two people in the group
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we learn this in school at Nazium.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically naming what's underneath out loud.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a very famous psychiatrist name, Irvin Yellum, who wrote kind of the seminal therapy book that everybody, if you're a therapist listening, you've read this book.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He pointed out that outside of a therapy room doing this is kind of close to forbidden again It's like breaking the fourth wall.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody does it at the dinner table And that's exactly why it feels so strange the first time you try it You're breaking a rule nobody wrote down and everyone is still following this rule.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm telling you right now The first few times you do this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not gonna feel smooth.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna
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[SPEAKER_00]: feel like you just said something a little too loud or too honestly, or too, I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's normal, but it's also the point, okay?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to walk you through what you do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing when you're saying all this Abby?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're going on and on, I have to name the feeling, I have to talk about what's underneath, I have to focus on the relationship.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How do I do that?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And right, how exactly?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So there's two steps.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Two steps you need to make.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why today's broadcast isn't very long.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't, this is the most important one, probably you'll ever hear for really changing your whole life and how you operate.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's the thing that we don't talk about though.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Again, it's breaking the fourth wall.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's so it's simple but not easy kind of thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's two steps.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The first step is the interruption.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's the first move and it's not a clever line.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's an interruption.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You have to stop the conversation before you can change it, okay?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And there are many ways to do that and you'll need to find what works for you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm gonna give you a few ideas to get you started.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you're in this exchange.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You can feel what the person is getting angry or passive aggressive or
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[SPEAKER_00]: that they're maybe they're cold shouldering it or something, you know, giving you the cold shoulder or whatever.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You just, you stop right in the middle.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You stop them as they're, they could be all heated and going and you go, hey, hey, can we stop for a second?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Can we just stop for a second?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we're in a power struggle right now and this does not feel good.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Or even just don't,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, you know, hey, wait, let's pause.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's something else going on here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's another thing you can say.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, the free download for today is giving you a ton of these, okay?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So as you don't have to take notes, you can get the free download for today, but I'll talk about that later.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What else can you say?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You can say something like, hold on, I don't think this is really about the facts anymore.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Can we stop?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel really far away from you right now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There you go, that'll bring.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What you're doing?
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[SPEAKER_00]: is bringing someone here and now you're bringing them into the room.
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[SPEAKER_00]: When we start talking, man, we get on autopilot and we just start going.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to give you
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[SPEAKER_00]: uh... this happened i'll give you a couple that happened recently for me with my clients so i was i'm working with an executive uh... who is in some trouble and i work with a lot of executives who have some problems and he uh... i'm in the session with him and he is angry he doesn't want to meet with me he doesn't want he doesn't think he needs me he doesn't think he has a drinking problem he doesn't think a lot of things
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm in a session with him, and I realize that I'm like arguing with him.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have all this experience 40 years, all my own personal therapy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I meditate before the session.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I do all the things, guess what?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I got pulled in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I next thing I know, I am pulled in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I stopped.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I said stop, stop.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I said do I might go, you're good.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You are good, and he's just staring at me, he's like, what, I said, wow, I got pulled right in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You pulled me right into this argument.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm arguing with you now, I can't believe it.
16:56.397 --> 17:00.920
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I'm going to tell you, you should give yourself a prize because it's hard.
17:01.320 --> 17:04.983
[SPEAKER_00]: I catch myself, that's my job is to do a good job.
17:05.003 --> 17:07.464
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said to him, I said, wow, I am not doing right by you.
17:08.325 --> 17:11.047
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I apologize, and I really meant it.
17:11.187 --> 17:12.408
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I apologize.
17:12.708 --> 17:14.810
[SPEAKER_00]: I needed to be, I have to up my game with you.
17:15.762 --> 17:18.804
[SPEAKER_00]: and then he's just staring at me, right?
17:19.164 --> 17:19.804
[SPEAKER_00]: Staring at me.
17:20.304 --> 17:23.506
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I said to him, you know, does this happen a lot?
17:23.706 --> 17:25.807
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you like this, right here?
17:27.148 --> 17:28.668
[SPEAKER_00]: And he, he was like, what?
17:29.069 --> 17:31.069
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said this right here, does this happen a lot?
17:31.150 --> 17:35.211
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel like people who are there to help you, you end up arguing with them?
17:35.372 --> 17:37.833
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that like, I'm here, I work for you.
17:37.853 --> 17:42.075
[SPEAKER_00]: I know somebody else told me to come in, but I worked for you and here,
17:43.385 --> 17:47.508
[SPEAKER_00]: like I don't and here we are where I'm in an argument where I don't want to work for you.
17:47.589 --> 17:49.630
[SPEAKER_00]: I said it like but I do want to.
17:49.670 --> 17:50.731
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to turn this around.
17:51.151 --> 17:52.813
[SPEAKER_00]: Like do you see what that is?
17:53.173 --> 17:57.237
[SPEAKER_00]: It's right there, right in the moment, right talking about what's happening.
17:58.237 --> 18:02.261
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay and that shifts the conversation and we had a really good conversation on the other side.
18:02.281 --> 18:05.603
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course we did because we were here and now we were present, we were doing it.
18:07.003 --> 18:11.386
[SPEAKER_00]: I had another client, this is, okay, this is more than a week ago though, but still.
18:12.287 --> 18:16.689
[SPEAKER_00]: And he, another man, I love the men I work with, thank you to all the men I work with.
18:16.909 --> 18:18.951
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was on and on.
18:19.191 --> 18:22.092
[SPEAKER_00]: He was talking about something and this is what he does.
18:22.153 --> 18:33.139
[SPEAKER_00]: He mansplains and he, this is why he's having a lot of trouble with his, he's here because of his partner, you know, that he needed some help and his, his marriage is feeling very rocky.
18:34.700 --> 18:43.391
[SPEAKER_00]: And I realized that I was kind of bored listening to him and so I stopped him and I said, hey, I'm going to stop you.
18:44.267 --> 18:45.148
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the interruption.
18:45.768 --> 18:46.509
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to stop you.
18:48.730 --> 18:49.671
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to tell you something.
18:50.352 --> 18:52.854
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I was drifting off the little as you were talking.
18:53.294 --> 19:00.099
[SPEAKER_00]: And he, of course, was a little, like I have a very good relationship with him so I could do this and he said, what is that, Abby?
19:00.620 --> 19:01.480
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm paying you a lot of money.
19:01.500 --> 19:02.201
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what are you talking about?
19:02.241 --> 19:03.101
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I know.
19:03.121 --> 19:08.626
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, but what do you think, like, did you not notice that I wasn't engaged?
19:09.426 --> 19:11.228
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that I wasn't really listening?
19:11.348 --> 19:12.228
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you not tell?
19:13.557 --> 19:19.425
[SPEAKER_00]: And we had such a good conversation about this and he said, and again, I wasn't drifting for an hour of the session.
19:19.445 --> 19:25.012
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like a minute or seconds or something, but I was noticing that I had to keep kind of pulling myself back in.
19:25.472 --> 19:30.098
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then I got to ask him, does this remind you of anything to all your conversations go this way?
19:30.659 --> 19:36.062
[SPEAKER_00]: do you ever pick up on the cues of other people when you're having when you're talking?
19:36.503 --> 19:38.704
[SPEAKER_00]: And we again had a great conversation.
19:38.744 --> 19:43.527
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a little, he was funny, he goes, I'm a little about her, but I get it, I get what you're doing here.
19:45.468 --> 19:51.472
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you see how, what you're doing is people talk and they're sort of in their heads kind of going.
19:51.812 --> 19:53.093
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on autopilot.
19:53.193 --> 19:57.236
[SPEAKER_00]: And what you're doing when you interrupt is you're taking them off of autopilot.
19:57.796 --> 20:03.741
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you, if the other person goes quiet instead of arguing, the still works, you know, the interruption.
20:04.481 --> 20:05.442
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you've gotten quiet.
20:06.143 --> 20:07.904
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that's really about what I said.
20:07.984 --> 20:09.345
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about what's going on?
20:09.685 --> 20:10.686
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what's going on right now?
20:10.986 --> 20:12.267
[SPEAKER_00]: I see your quietness, right?
20:12.748 --> 20:13.889
[SPEAKER_00]: Any version does the job.
20:14.549 --> 20:20.774
[SPEAKER_00]: What you're doing is you're interrupting the words, the content, and you're naming what's underneath instead.
20:20.854 --> 20:23.216
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, and that's step two, really, is naming it.
20:23.656 --> 20:30.241
[SPEAKER_00]: because once you've, and I'm doing a little combo here, so you're getting both, but once you've stopped, you did the interruption part.
20:32.082 --> 20:39.748
[SPEAKER_00]: The second step is, again, finding what's underneath the feeling, the tension that whatever's going on underneath the agenda.
20:40.508 --> 20:44.731
[SPEAKER_00]: One of my favorite questions to ask, really, after I interrupt, I'm like, hey, can we stop right now?
20:45.972 --> 20:46.913
[SPEAKER_00]: Could we just stop for a minute?
20:47.173 --> 20:49.755
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I say to them, what are you feeling right now?
20:49.835 --> 20:51.296
[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually what I did with them.
20:53.035 --> 20:54.035
[SPEAKER_00]: the guy that I argued with.
20:54.656 --> 20:56.536
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I was giving you the next version.
20:56.576 --> 20:59.057
[SPEAKER_00]: But I saw, I said, what are you feeling right now?
20:59.918 --> 21:01.738
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, what do you mean?
21:02.279 --> 21:03.479
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, what are you feeling right now?
21:04.319 --> 21:19.365
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you ask another person this, they'll usually, and you could also ask yourself what you're feeling right now, by the way, that works too, like to notice that you're getting pulled in to something, that's what happened with the guy that I was arguing with, I was noticing I was feeling angry.
21:21.806 --> 21:26.369
[SPEAKER_00]: misunderstood and frustrated and, you know, that's not my job is not to feel any of those things.
21:26.429 --> 21:30.031
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, to feel present and compassionate and all that.
21:30.051 --> 21:32.093
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, oops, I am in a not in a good place.
21:32.968 --> 21:40.195
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and let me say this, I know I'm sorry I'm interrupting myself, but most people when you say, what are you feeling right now?
21:40.376 --> 21:42.217
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll give you a thought, not a feeling.
21:42.638 --> 21:44.039
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you, you're going to see it.
21:44.059 --> 21:48.724
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be flabbergasted by how hard it is for people to name a feeling and that's the point.
21:49.685 --> 21:52.107
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you're going to hear like, so I'll stop.
21:52.207 --> 21:53.348
[SPEAKER_00]: I stopped this guy.
21:53.369 --> 21:54.209
[SPEAKER_00]: So what are you feeling right now?
21:54.249 --> 21:56.392
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes, he said, I feel like you're not listening to me.
21:58.292 --> 21:59.053
[SPEAKER_00]: that's not a feeling.
22:00.213 --> 22:06.878
[SPEAKER_00]: If someone says I feel like, you know, I feel like you always do this, whatever, I feel like that's not a feeling.
22:06.938 --> 22:16.824
[SPEAKER_00]: It's I feel, Matt, glad angry said, shy, overwhelmed, anxious, depressed, happy, joyous, free, a feeling should only come after that.
22:17.485 --> 22:20.326
[SPEAKER_00]: But people will give you thoughts, okay?
22:21.347 --> 22:23.889
[SPEAKER_00]: Or they might say something like, you'll say how, what are you feeling right now?
22:23.909 --> 22:26.190
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, well, I'm just trying to get you to understand what I'm saying.
22:27.090 --> 22:28.751
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not answering the question.
22:29.092 --> 22:31.653
[SPEAKER_00]: All thoughts, all not feelings.
22:31.833 --> 22:33.934
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, some start with I feel, right?
22:33.954 --> 22:35.235
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like, you know, no.
22:35.795 --> 22:37.897
[SPEAKER_00]: So you want to keep asking.
22:38.537 --> 22:44.901
[SPEAKER_00]: So that usually right there, I'll say, I, yes, I understand that, but what are you feeling right now?
22:45.855 --> 22:51.358
[SPEAKER_00]: You're looking again for scared, hurt, embarrassed, abandoned, rejected, alone.
22:51.478 --> 22:52.859
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care, something, right?
22:53.159 --> 22:57.921
[SPEAKER_00]: And you need to stay with it until you get there because this is the key to the whole thing.
22:57.941 --> 23:05.725
[SPEAKER_00]: And in my experience, once people name a feeling, it's like the guard comes down.
23:05.905 --> 23:10.288
[SPEAKER_00]: And they often, I'm telling you right now, they will exhale, or they will sigh.
23:11.280 --> 23:27.934
[SPEAKER_00]: and there's actual brain research behind why this happens, by the way, because when people put a feeling into words, we've done brain scans on this, I'll link to the research that shows that the amygdala, your brain's fear center, your alarm system, it calms down almost immediately.
23:28.194 --> 23:30.476
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost immediately, when you put a feeling into words, I know.
23:31.056 --> 23:32.297
[SPEAKER_00]: So naming the feeling,
23:33.454 --> 23:35.395
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't just describe what's happening.
23:35.535 --> 23:40.676
[SPEAKER_00]: It changes what's happening in your body and the other person's body.
23:41.216 --> 23:45.997
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they're finally there in the room with you instead of reacting in the moment.
23:46.137 --> 23:46.737
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's so great.
23:46.757 --> 23:49.698
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I find is I'll say, like, how are you feeling right now?
23:50.138 --> 23:51.158
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll do that thing.
23:51.178 --> 23:53.139
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, like, I just feel like you're not listening.
23:53.159 --> 23:56.680
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel, and I'm like, no, no, no, I feel like, feel like, what do you feel?
23:56.760 --> 23:57.400
[SPEAKER_00]: Name of feeling?
23:58.160 --> 23:59.821
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll you'll push.
23:59.961 --> 24:01.542
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually a people hang up on me.
24:02.443 --> 24:05.365
[SPEAKER_00]: This is family members, but I've had people hang up on me.
24:05.385 --> 24:06.786
[SPEAKER_00]: They get so frustrated.
24:06.926 --> 24:08.267
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you think about that,
24:09.899 --> 24:10.559
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
24:10.599 --> 24:22.984
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good information if they couldn't name a feeling, if asking someone a name a feeling, get some so frustrated that they blow up or walk out of the room or hang up the phone, you were never communicating to begin with.
24:23.584 --> 24:25.365
[SPEAKER_00]: You were never having a conversation and begin with.
24:25.925 --> 24:32.628
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how far they were from any place that you could have a real connecting conversation.
24:33.028 --> 24:34.669
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, good information.
24:35.729 --> 24:43.352
[SPEAKER_00]: But what happens what I find so much is that someone's like, I just, I don't know, I, you know, I guess I, I just feel frustrated.
24:43.392 --> 24:49.195
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, and they're like, yeah, yeah, I'm just like, I'm sort of, I'm feeling frustrated.
24:49.215 --> 24:50.596
[SPEAKER_00]: This is hard.
24:51.216 --> 24:53.397
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can hear everything shift.
24:54.358 --> 24:59.783
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so hard, I feel, and I'm like, yeah, I feel far from you too, or I feel frustrated too.
24:59.843 --> 25:00.324
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate that.
25:00.344 --> 25:01.305
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we try again?
25:01.365 --> 25:02.586
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we try different language?
25:02.606 --> 25:03.367
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we bump up up up?
25:03.887 --> 25:15.159
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I've got somewhere to go because I've unhooked the reaction, the physical brain hijacking that has happened, you've unhooked it in this moment.
25:16.227 --> 25:17.488
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.
25:17.508 --> 25:19.350
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a few other ways to ask the same question.
25:19.390 --> 25:21.171
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, so what are you feeling right now is my favorite?
25:21.231 --> 25:23.593
[SPEAKER_00]: But you, you could ask what's happening for you right now.
25:24.433 --> 25:26.655
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, what's the feeling underneath this?
25:27.096 --> 25:32.400
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've had to put a single word on it, what would it be that you're experiencing right now with me?
25:32.460 --> 25:38.604
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, um, any of that, um, some of my favorite questions,
25:39.831 --> 25:43.135
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll also ask about the relationship directly, not just the feeling.
25:43.195 --> 25:44.216
[SPEAKER_00]: That's another way you can go.
25:45.818 --> 25:50.543
[SPEAKER_00]: I might say something like, so right now, let me just, again, you're interrupted, right?
25:50.724 --> 25:51.965
[SPEAKER_00]: Just, I want to stop you for a minute.
25:52.626 --> 25:56.070
[SPEAKER_00]: As we're talking right now, are you feeling loving towards me right now?
25:57.852 --> 25:59.874
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you feeling compassion towards me right now?
26:01.216 --> 26:03.016
[SPEAKER_00]: What a good what a good interruption.
26:03.657 --> 26:05.457
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you feeling connected to me right now?
26:06.357 --> 26:09.178
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, notice all the right now because that's what you're doing.
26:10.018 --> 26:14.079
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel happy in this conversation like are you happy in this conversation right now?
26:14.139 --> 26:15.560
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you happy we're having it?
26:16.980 --> 26:19.460
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, I you know, I didn't want to have to talk about this with you.
26:19.640 --> 26:21.941
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, that's coming across loud and clear.
26:21.981 --> 26:22.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we try again?
26:23.341 --> 26:25.262
[SPEAKER_00]: So why are we even having this conversation then?
26:26.695 --> 26:30.077
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because, you know, we were upset about blah, blah, blah, blah.
26:30.177 --> 26:32.739
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so our goal is to get closer, right?
26:32.859 --> 26:34.320
[SPEAKER_00]: Our goal is to feel connected.
26:34.860 --> 26:35.921
[SPEAKER_00]: So can we start there?
26:36.341 --> 26:36.941
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you.
26:37.542 --> 26:39.583
[SPEAKER_00]: I want us to come to a solution together.
26:39.683 --> 26:41.924
[SPEAKER_00]: Notice how this goes into other things I've taught you, okay?
26:42.404 --> 26:42.665
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
26:43.285 --> 26:46.047
[SPEAKER_00]: So can we just stop and do this right now?
26:47.077 --> 26:47.277
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
26:47.337 --> 26:56.061
[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, somebody in my sub-sec community is talking about her mother-law and who is, they're planning a wedding and future mother-in-law, sorry.
26:56.141 --> 26:57.322
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's really stuck.
26:57.462 --> 26:59.563
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we always come back to like boundaries.
26:59.583 --> 27:00.983
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you've got to make a boundary these people.
27:01.063 --> 27:01.764
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's true.
27:02.304 --> 27:08.647
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would also really say I would love for this person and my community maybe to stop her mother-in-law and just go,
27:09.267 --> 27:12.828
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel so much tension in our relationship and it makes me sad.
27:12.948 --> 27:21.490
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're about to be related or it feels like you're maybe, I think the mother-in-law is being very passive or and passive aggressive.
27:21.930 --> 27:26.951
[SPEAKER_00]: So it might be something, you know, never say to anybody, I feel like you're being passive aggressive, like don't do that.
27:26.991 --> 27:29.192
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's not a feeling anyway, okay, it's a thought.
27:29.232 --> 27:30.512
[SPEAKER_00]: But you might say like,
27:32.614 --> 27:39.401
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel so disconnected from you, I get this idea that you want to say something you're not saying.
27:40.262 --> 27:42.324
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell me how you really feel about this?
27:42.644 --> 27:43.585
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm open.
27:43.665 --> 27:44.506
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to hear it.
27:44.586 --> 27:45.167
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
27:45.187 --> 27:48.891
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you see where you're talking about what's underneath?
27:49.151 --> 27:49.732
[SPEAKER_00]: What's underneath?
27:49.832 --> 27:51.874
[SPEAKER_00]: I have another client who's a supervisor.
27:54.427 --> 27:56.388
[SPEAKER_00]: of a guy who pushes back a lot.
27:56.588 --> 28:15.196
[SPEAKER_00]: He does, you know, and I told her to ask him, I said, I want you to go back and say to him, like, again, interrupt the next time he, because he's always pushing back on what he says, he's always like who says, and where'd you get that information, and I want proof, and you know, and I said, interrupt him, go, hey, I wanna, I wanna just stop for a second.
28:15.916 --> 28:18.777
[SPEAKER_00]: And then ask the question, are you happy on your supervisor?
28:19.558 --> 28:20.878
[SPEAKER_00]: It's such a good question.
28:21.398 --> 28:22.759
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you happy on your supervisor?
28:23.521 --> 28:27.262
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, of course, that person is blustering like, what do you mean?
28:27.282 --> 28:31.104
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've worked together for years on the font, you know, I think I even talked about this on another episode.
28:31.124 --> 28:31.944
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember which one.
28:31.964 --> 28:34.085
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, but it's such a good example.
28:34.705 --> 28:38.406
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, and he's not happy or he wouldn't be pushing back.
28:38.506 --> 28:40.027
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's the conversation you can have.
28:40.067 --> 28:43.068
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it doesn't seem like you're happy that I'm your supervisor.
28:43.368 --> 28:44.148
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel, you know,
28:44.568 --> 28:49.652
[SPEAKER_00]: I see you push back on everything, you know, you ask for facts and other things, you seem unhappy with me.
28:50.233 --> 28:54.296
[SPEAKER_00]: It definitely seems like, so let me ask you another question, do trust me as your supervisor.
28:55.497 --> 29:00.260
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you question everything I do, which makes me think you don't trust me or you wouldn't question so much.
29:01.041 --> 29:09.387
[SPEAKER_00]: Like of the like who said, you're not just quite, you're not asking me questions like to figure out how to better do what I ask you to do.
29:09.888 --> 29:12.170
[SPEAKER_00]: You're questioning whether you should even do it.
29:12.870 --> 29:15.993
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I'm having a hard time.
29:16.073 --> 29:16.614
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
29:16.774 --> 29:18.656
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a different conversation to have.
29:18.696 --> 29:19.917
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you see how this is though?
29:20.338 --> 29:29.107
[SPEAKER_00]: When people get up in their heads and they start spouting the facts or doubling down, you're dealing with people who are reacting, not acting.
29:29.227 --> 29:30.148
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're dealing with.
29:30.528 --> 29:31.730
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on autopilot.
29:32.330 --> 29:34.851
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not really there in the conversation with you.
29:34.891 --> 29:35.711
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's the point?
29:35.811 --> 29:38.692
[SPEAKER_00]: At that point, they're trying to win at something.
29:38.792 --> 29:42.734
[SPEAKER_00]: And you need to connect and get back to the present moment.
29:43.314 --> 29:53.597
[SPEAKER_00]: You even, like the example I just gave you, can say that, like, it feels like you're trying to win or trying to beat me at something, or trying to get over on me, or trying to discredit me.
29:54.218 --> 29:57.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Say what you think, say it.
30:02.922 --> 30:12.527
[SPEAKER_00]: When you do these two steps, two step approach, the interruption and then the naming, whatever you think is going on, that's what gets you back to the present moment.
30:12.588 --> 30:14.969
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what gets you in the here and now, okay?
30:15.669 --> 30:23.414
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm gonna give you a little heads up that the, it's not sometimes the other person will deny feeling
30:26.983 --> 30:28.844
[SPEAKER_00]: some feeling that is obviously right there.
30:28.884 --> 30:29.725
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just going to deny it.
30:30.025 --> 30:33.087
[SPEAKER_00]: I've literally had people yelling at me and I'm like, wow, you're so angry.
30:33.127 --> 30:33.988
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm not angry.
30:34.188 --> 30:35.309
[SPEAKER_00]: I cast the yellow at me.
30:36.149 --> 30:37.870
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah.
30:38.571 --> 30:42.414
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've just stopped them and said, you're really angry right now.
30:42.494 --> 30:43.574
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even say you seem.
30:43.594 --> 30:46.696
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, it's clear to me that you're really angry right now.
30:46.716 --> 30:50.039
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's actually disturbing to me that you don't realize it.
30:51.620 --> 30:52.801
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not angry.
30:52.821 --> 30:54.422
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to make my point, you know.
30:55.898 --> 31:01.421
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to argue that at some point, like, you know, say the thing, but reflect what you're hearing.
31:01.801 --> 31:02.462
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't argue.
31:03.002 --> 31:05.623
[SPEAKER_00]: You are you are just it sounds like I'm going to me.
31:05.844 --> 31:06.904
[SPEAKER_00]: I can hear it in your voice.
31:07.024 --> 31:12.007
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you try and then I just say so if I don't know if you think you're angry or not.
31:12.227 --> 31:17.931
[SPEAKER_00]: I am experiencing it as anger and it feels really hostile and like we're not gonna have any communication.
31:17.971 --> 31:21.574
[SPEAKER_00]: So can you please try saying that to me in a different way?
31:22.194 --> 31:26.017
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you try that, or should we come back to this later?
31:26.618 --> 31:29.060
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't mean that's when you sort of interrupt on that level.
31:31.882 --> 31:37.426
[SPEAKER_00]: Another move you can make, because I love you and I wanna give you a ton of options and flexibility here.
31:38.597 --> 31:43.720
[SPEAKER_00]: Another thing I do which I love is I ask them to trade a statement for a question.
31:45.000 --> 31:45.681
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll say that.
31:45.701 --> 31:49.583
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you ask me a question instead of telling me something right now?
31:50.405 --> 31:52.507
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what are you trying to understand?
31:53.268 --> 31:53.748
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you try it?
31:53.768 --> 31:54.729
[SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of times, they'll do that.
31:55.090 --> 31:56.191
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you need to bubble up a button.
31:56.811 --> 32:00.855
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you know, or you're not listening to what I'm saying.
32:01.216 --> 32:05.680
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say, you say I'm not listening, so I'm not hearing you.
32:05.820 --> 32:06.701
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're saying.
32:07.322 --> 32:10.245
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you ask me a question then so you can understand why?
32:12.663 --> 32:17.824
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you hear, so put you in the room with the person, the here and now, and it shifts.
32:18.284 --> 32:24.045
[SPEAKER_00]: It also shifts the responsibility back to them if we're not, you know, communications are two way street.
32:24.625 --> 32:29.766
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're stating the same thing to me over and over and I'm disagreeing and I've said this before.
32:29.846 --> 32:33.747
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times when we disagree, people say we don't understand or we're not listening.
32:34.107 --> 32:34.927
[SPEAKER_00]: That happens a lot.
32:35.587 --> 32:36.487
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can say that.
32:36.967 --> 32:39.948
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like if I disagree with you, tell me I'm not listening.
32:42.890 --> 32:44.991
[SPEAKER_00]: do you need me to repeat back what you said?
32:45.011 --> 32:48.373
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know it like start to ask questions?
32:48.493 --> 32:49.133
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll ask that too.
32:49.173 --> 32:53.915
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can ask me one question right now to understand what's happening between us, what would it be?
32:54.216 --> 32:54.756
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll ask that.
32:55.796 --> 32:59.237
[SPEAKER_00]: If you could ask me one question right now, so I could better understand this, what would it be?
32:59.937 --> 33:09.299
[SPEAKER_00]: That question alone really tends to slow everything down because it asks someone to get curious instead of getting their point across.
33:09.559 --> 33:10.439
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're doing.
33:10.899 --> 33:19.361
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to be really, this works whether you're doing it with a partner, your dad, your best friend, your sister, your boss, your kid, anywhere, anywhere.
33:20.021 --> 33:41.720
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really, again, you're going to stop first, you're going to interrupt and then ask those questions to identify where you are right now to bring them in the room and you're going to stay with the answer until it's a real feeling not a thought standing in for one okay you you've got to do that all right and then.
33:42.420 --> 33:44.201
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say you also, what do I say?
33:44.221 --> 33:46.422
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to check yourself before you wreck yourself, right?
33:46.622 --> 33:47.883
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously none of this works.
33:48.003 --> 34:01.149
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not checking your own behavior, if you're not mindful, and in the here and now yourself during these interactions, otherwise you're going to be on autopilot and going toe to toe in the argument, like I was with that executive guy.
34:01.209 --> 34:07.873
[SPEAKER_00]: When I got like pulled in, it's critical that you work on your mindfulness skills consistently.
34:07.893 --> 34:08.513
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to do it.
34:08.693 --> 34:11.274
[SPEAKER_00]: to me, I do it all the time and I still got pulled in.
34:11.334 --> 34:15.957
[SPEAKER_00]: You will not do this life perfectly, but we call it a practice because you have to practice.
34:16.377 --> 34:17.257
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to practice.
34:17.337 --> 34:19.939
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't have the free mindfulness starter kit yet, you're killing me.
34:20.019 --> 34:20.799
[SPEAKER_00]: You're killing me.
34:20.879 --> 34:21.760
[SPEAKER_00]: You're killing me, smalls.
34:22.400 --> 34:22.780
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
34:22.940 --> 34:23.261
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
34:24.301 --> 34:25.162
[SPEAKER_00]: Just get it already.
34:25.682 --> 34:27.323
[SPEAKER_00]: But you have to work on mindfulness skills.
34:28.023 --> 34:31.605
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, consistently, you don't go to the gym once to get fit.
34:31.885 --> 34:36.546
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, or eat well in one day to get fit, you have to do it over time, right?
34:37.046 --> 34:46.889
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can catch yourself when it's happening and get the train back on the tracks or so that you can even stop it before it even happens, right?
34:48.290 --> 34:49.130
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're going for.
34:50.305 --> 34:56.090
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I don't want to belabor this too much, but I'm hoping, again, I think this is the most important thing you'll learn.
34:56.711 --> 35:02.516
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is the one that beats everything else I've ever done and I should have saved it for episode 400.
35:03.356 --> 35:06.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's the one, my, my love, it is the one.
35:06.479 --> 35:08.581
[SPEAKER_00]: If you start doing this, your life will change.
35:08.721 --> 35:10.643
[SPEAKER_00]: I promise you, I guarantee it.
35:11.123 --> 35:12.885
[SPEAKER_00]: You're, because your relationships will change.
35:13.485 --> 35:14.966
[SPEAKER_00]: how you're talking to people will change.
35:15.006 --> 35:21.472
[SPEAKER_00]: The communication shifts, the connections shifts, everything shifts, it's why we do it in groups.
35:22.073 --> 35:23.974
[SPEAKER_00]: It's why we're taught to do it as therapists.
35:24.054 --> 35:27.177
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you, that's the point, that's why we're taught that.
35:27.597 --> 35:35.925
[SPEAKER_00]: So that we can help people see what's really going on so they can get past all the stories that are telling themselves, that's the point.
35:36.025 --> 35:39.167
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm giving you the inside track here, right?
35:39.328 --> 35:39.568
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
35:39.968 --> 35:43.991
[SPEAKER_00]: So the free download for today is the circle breaker script sheet.
35:44.071 --> 35:47.854
[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically what you want to say when a conversation won't move forward, right?
35:48.554 --> 35:57.381
[SPEAKER_00]: And whenever I talk about the free downloads or the therapy to go bundle for today, if this is an issue for you, you should really get the therapy to go bundle for today, which I'll tell you about in a second.
35:57.781 --> 35:59.423
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything can be found below the video.
35:59.443 --> 36:02.185
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're watching on YouTube, hello, like and subscribe if you are.
36:03.385 --> 36:10.187
[SPEAKER_00]: or you can go to my website, go to this episode, and I write a full blog, and I have way before AI.
36:10.747 --> 36:12.728
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been writing full blogs for years.
36:13.088 --> 36:19.610
[SPEAKER_00]: You can read the blog all the links are there to past episodes that might help you to, you know, the free download, to the research, everything's there.
36:20.468 --> 36:24.489
[SPEAKER_00]: And the therapy to go, I do what's called, I call it a therapy to go bundle.
36:24.509 --> 36:31.371
[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically therapy to go, like if you're working with a therapist, you could do this with your therapist or bring in the results with them.
36:31.951 --> 36:35.171
[SPEAKER_00]: But you don't, that's the point is you don't have to have a therapist to do this.
36:35.271 --> 36:36.592
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to help you go deeper.
36:36.612 --> 36:41.753
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a little therapy session to help you get to your underneath to your wise.
36:42.433 --> 36:43.374
[SPEAKER_00]: and they're $10.
36:43.634 --> 36:44.155
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
36:44.555 --> 36:47.518
[SPEAKER_00]: And you get, you're going to get the free download with it.
36:47.538 --> 36:49.480
[SPEAKER_00]: You also get the blog.
36:49.500 --> 36:57.889
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can kind of, what I would tell people is reread the blog, read the blog, not reread, read the blog, do the, the free download is kind of the first piece and then the
37:01.853 --> 37:03.454
[SPEAKER_00]: which role do you default to?
37:04.034 --> 37:09.736
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a self scoring guide, you know, to which kind of role that member the blame, the playcator those.
37:10.276 --> 37:15.658
[SPEAKER_00]: There's journaling prompts, there's a circle breaker tracker, you know, where you can break the circle, you know.
37:16.999 --> 37:20.740
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a little worksheet for catching yourself before you get pulled in.
37:20.980 --> 37:25.222
[SPEAKER_00]: All of that is in therapy to go by no for just $10, which is pretty good deal.
37:26.062 --> 37:27.003
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and that's it.
37:27.344 --> 37:28.365
[SPEAKER_00]: That is today.
37:28.645 --> 37:32.009
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really, I would love for you to listen to this over and over.
37:32.149 --> 37:34.592
[SPEAKER_00]: It's such a, again, we're breaking the fourth wall.
37:35.092 --> 37:38.976
[SPEAKER_00]: It is such a refined, nuanced thing.
37:39.076 --> 37:40.057
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's simple.
37:40.097 --> 37:43.661
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, but it's not easy, but it is the secret to really,
37:44.422 --> 37:46.944
[SPEAKER_00]: connected, loving, compassionate relationships.
37:46.984 --> 37:49.506
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and you deserve those every single day.
37:50.126 --> 37:51.327
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I hope you practice.
37:52.048 --> 37:54.049
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you so much.
37:54.370 --> 37:57.092
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being here with me, and we'll be gonna talk next week.
37:58.112 --> 38:00.415
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for spending time with me today.
38:00.755 --> 38:05.560
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're loving what you're learning here, come join my one love collective.
38:05.740 --> 38:07.122
[SPEAKER_00]: It's my private community.
38:07.502 --> 38:10.245
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be take these conversations even deeper.
38:10.686 --> 38:13.349
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll get a ton of bonus content.
38:13.709 --> 38:19.576
[SPEAKER_00]: Live Q&As with me, guided visualizations, journaling prompts, scripts,
38:20.097 --> 38:28.350
[SPEAKER_00]: and an incredible community of like-minded people ready to support you as you create more ease and joy in all your relationships.
38:28.890 --> 38:32.977
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all waiting for you at AppieMedCraft.com or right-on-substack.
38:33.438 --> 38:34.199
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next week.
00:00.211 --> 00:01.912
[SPEAKER_00]: your stuck in an argument.
00:02.092 --> 00:04.914
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's the same fight you have every few weeks.
00:05.574 --> 00:08.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's a standoff where nobody budges.
00:09.377 --> 00:14.840
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe somebody gets really quiet or passive aggressive instead of just saying what's wrong.
00:15.561 --> 00:17.802
[SPEAKER_00]: All three have the same root cause.
00:18.002 --> 00:24.066
[SPEAKER_00]: You're arguing the facts and no one's talking about what's happening underneath those words.
00:24.606 --> 00:26.347
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever's happening emotionally is
00:29.429 --> 00:37.171
[SPEAKER_00]: You're arguing the facts, hoping that'll help, but it doesn't because you're focusing on the wrong thing, and you know it because you're done it under times.
00:37.811 --> 00:44.073
[SPEAKER_00]: We connect through feelings, not thoughts, and until someone names the feelings, the facts just keep circling.
00:44.133 --> 00:53.915
[SPEAKER_00]: So today, I'm giving you my two-step process to shift this dynamic so you can start connecting instead of going around in circles, so stay tuned.
00:56.288 --> 01:10.296
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Relationships Made Easy Podcast, where I give you the exact steps to create connection, joy and ease and all your relationships, whether it's with your partner, your family, your friends, or most importantly yourself.
01:10.996 --> 01:17.960
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dr. Abbey Medkath, psychologist, bestselling author, TEDx, speaker, and the bossy Jewish mom you didn't know you needed.
01:18.640 --> 01:28.466
[SPEAKER_00]: Each week you'll get no nonsense, research back strategies, serve with humor and love, so you can stop second-guessing yourself and start having the relationships you deserve.
01:29.146 --> 01:35.070
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll always leave knowing exactly what to say and do to shift your relationships for the better.
01:35.570 --> 01:36.431
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's get to it.
01:39.347 --> 01:41.728
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the podcast.
01:41.748 --> 01:46.769
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is maybe the most important episode you're ever going to hear.
01:46.909 --> 01:47.509
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you like that?
01:47.629 --> 01:51.470
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a melodrama much, Abby, yes.
01:51.590 --> 01:56.472
[SPEAKER_00]: Because this is the thing underneath the thing, underneath the thing, underneath the thing.
01:56.652 --> 01:57.792
[SPEAKER_00]: This is it.
01:57.872 --> 02:01.093
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what counselors do when we're effective.
02:01.613 --> 02:04.514
[SPEAKER_00]: This is how you shift conversations.
02:05.677 --> 02:13.579
[SPEAKER_00]: every conversation and especially every disagreement has two layers happening at once, every single one.
02:13.959 --> 02:16.139
[SPEAKER_00]: But only one of them usually gets talked about.
02:16.900 --> 02:19.620
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the first layer because it's what everybody's saying.
02:19.700 --> 02:27.062
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the content, the facts, the evidence, the specific topic you're discussing or arguing about or whatever, right?
02:27.922 --> 02:46.896
[SPEAKER_00]: The second more important layer is what's underneath that and it's what we psychologists generally call a process and I'm going to explain what that is what's underneath the content that the facts that the words of what you're saying is what's really going on between you.
02:47.777 --> 03:11.104
[SPEAKER_00]: the power struggle, the resentment, the anxiety, the jealousy, the insecurity, the fear of not being heard, all of that, and you're focusing on the content, on the words, on explaining, justifying, explaining again, trying different words, but it doesn't move the conversation forward, and you're just, you're feeling more and more frustrated and so is the other person.
03:13.238 --> 03:19.062
[SPEAKER_00]: focusing on your words instead of the feelings driving them.
03:19.082 --> 03:24.365
[SPEAKER_00]: I often say is like pulling the battery out when a smoke alarm goes off.
03:25.006 --> 03:30.750
[SPEAKER_00]: You've stopped the noise but the building is still burning that your home is still on fire.
03:31.550 --> 03:41.454
[SPEAKER_00]: arguing the facts or, you know, getting someone to acquiesce might stop the noise in the moment, but it doesn't put out the fire.
03:41.974 --> 03:50.778
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you have the same fight again, or that person is past some aggressive later, and it's because the feelings haven't been resolved.
03:50.798 --> 03:51.978
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to teach you this today.
03:52.979 --> 04:00.382
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the other person will usually be upset in some way.
04:01.474 --> 04:17.672
[SPEAKER_00]: And instead of talking about how they're feeling, they might go cold or they might agree that, you know, to something they don't want to agree to or don't mean or something or they Sometimes they make a comment with an edge, you know that comment, right?
04:18.493 --> 04:22.554
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you call it out, they deny the edge at all, you know, right?
04:23.255 --> 04:26.075
[SPEAKER_00]: And nobody ever says, hey, what's happening here?
04:26.776 --> 04:34.138
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's exactly what is keeping you stuck in these kind of circular disagreements that seem to have no end, right?
04:34.178 --> 04:37.759
[SPEAKER_00]: You say it, they say it, you say it, they say nothing is really happening.
04:38.139 --> 04:39.500
[SPEAKER_00]: The resentment is building.
04:39.720 --> 04:41.060
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, that's not, that's a lot.
04:41.140 --> 04:41.901
[SPEAKER_00]: Something is happening.
04:41.961 --> 04:43.461
[SPEAKER_00]: The resentment is building.
04:43.721 --> 04:44.721
[SPEAKER_00]: The frustration.
04:47.262 --> 04:57.209
[SPEAKER_00]: The same low grade friction, it's going to keep showing up in different forms, and nobody's talking about what's happening underneath all that.
04:57.309 --> 05:07.376
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody's talking about the feelings, the unconscious, the sometimes conscious motivations that are driving every single conversation you have.
05:09.793 --> 05:33.067
[SPEAKER_00]: Virginia Cityer, who's, she's often referred to as like the mother, a family therapy, she spent years listening to how people communicate under stress, and she very famously named four patterns that people fall into when they feel like, when they feel threatened, specifically they feel like their self-esteem is threatened, but I would say anyway they feel threatened.
05:34.759 --> 05:46.991
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is what is always coming up when you're talking to somebody every time and having anything that just and again it doesn't always feel like a disagreement you feel like you're just talking and you're missing each other you're like what is happening here.
05:57.482 --> 06:00.950
[SPEAKER_00]: So somebody goes quiet, they agree to everything.
06:01.451 --> 06:03.515
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, they're seeding later, right?
06:04.076 --> 06:07.764
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's obviously where a lot of the passive aggressive behavior comes from.
06:09.090 --> 06:11.312
[SPEAKER_00]: The third is what she called computing.
06:11.352 --> 06:13.733
[SPEAKER_00]: That's basically when somebody turns into a lawyer.
06:14.314 --> 06:15.374
[SPEAKER_00]: They're laying out all the facts.
06:15.455 --> 06:16.555
[SPEAKER_00]: I say, would love to all my lawyers.
06:17.016 --> 06:22.600
[SPEAKER_00]: They're laying out the facts, the evidence, like it's a closing argument, like they're in court.
06:22.820 --> 06:28.564
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is when one of the defense mechanisms here is intellectualization, where they're just intellectualizing everything.
06:29.344 --> 06:31.126
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the fourth is distracting.
06:31.186 --> 06:37.110
[SPEAKER_00]: That might be where somebody makes a joke or changes the subject to get everybody off of it entirely.
06:39.920 --> 06:50.871
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you start identifying what pattern someone is in, including yourself, of course, you can see that they are kind of unknowingly playing a role.
06:51.151 --> 06:57.578
[SPEAKER_00]: And that role is what's leading the conversation really, not the word you're saying, the role.
06:58.298 --> 06:58.398
[SPEAKER_00]: And
06:59.674 --> 07:07.061
[SPEAKER_00]: that, you know, that's what I'm talking about when I talk about what's underneath, the thing that's driving your interaction usually comes from one of those four places.
07:07.161 --> 07:20.172
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, so let's talk about what's happening underneath the argument, because every message you sent, or I underneath the conversation, again, this doesn't always have to be a disagreement, but I think that's mostly when people get frustrated.
07:21.053 --> 07:23.794
[SPEAKER_00]: every message you send does two things at once.
07:24.535 --> 07:25.655
[SPEAKER_00]: It gives information.
07:26.015 --> 07:27.316
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's the first right?
07:27.356 --> 07:27.916
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the words.
07:28.156 --> 07:32.639
[SPEAKER_00]: And it says something about how you're relating to each other right this minute.
07:33.659 --> 07:46.365
[SPEAKER_00]: And when that second part, the relating part sounds like contempt or dismissal, you know, they're dismissive somehow, it doesn't matter how right the content the words are.
07:46.785 --> 07:47.346
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know it
07:50.508 --> 07:57.053
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so that, and that's the point of today, I guess is what I want to say.
07:57.514 --> 08:00.356
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a communication researcher named Paul.
08:00.556 --> 08:02.798
[SPEAKER_00]: I never get this man's last name right.
08:02.938 --> 08:04.519
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, I'll have it on the blog.
08:04.539 --> 08:08.162
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like Watts, Watts, Louis, I want to say it's Watts, Louis.
08:09.095 --> 08:14.557
[SPEAKER_00]: But he wrote about, he's pretty famous in the psychology community.
08:14.657 --> 08:18.998
[SPEAKER_00]: He wrote about back in the 1960s, he was writing about all this.
08:19.158 --> 08:21.139
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to tell you, it holds up today.
08:21.799 --> 08:25.260
[SPEAKER_00]: His stuff has been re-verified over and over every message.
08:26.246 --> 08:35.649
[SPEAKER_00]: again, has a content layer and a relationship layer and the relationship layer decides how the content gets heard.
08:35.849 --> 08:36.769
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say that again.
08:37.489 --> 08:38.790
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm talking about today.
08:40.170 --> 08:43.951
[SPEAKER_00]: The content layer, the words, the facts, whatever you're saying, right?
08:44.091 --> 08:50.273
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's the relationship layer, what's going underneath, how you feel about this person, if you're blaming what's going on,
08:52.057 --> 08:53.799
[SPEAKER_00]: doesn't matter what you say.
08:53.819 --> 08:56.101
[SPEAKER_00]: It depends on how the relationship is.
08:56.141 --> 08:57.022
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how it gets hurt.
08:57.443 --> 09:03.089
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you that like when I go in to do, let's say a corporate training or something, where I'm going in to work with someone.
09:03.870 --> 09:03.910
[SPEAKER_00]: If
09:05.197 --> 09:14.439
[SPEAKER_00]: If the people there already have met me, if I'm doing a training and I'm coming in maybe for part three or four, it goes way easier because people already trust me.
09:14.479 --> 09:16.360
[SPEAKER_00]: They know me, they whatever, right?
09:16.980 --> 09:21.541
[SPEAKER_00]: As opposed to the first time, when they're not sure, because the relationship has changed.
09:21.801 --> 09:23.301
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's true all the time.
09:23.741 --> 09:31.123
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's why things change when you get to know someone more and the relationship changes, you get to trust them more, whatever, or you trust them less.
09:32.103 --> 09:34.444
[SPEAKER_00]: And so no matter what they're saying on top,
09:34.944 --> 09:38.905
[SPEAKER_00]: depending on how the relationship is, is how that conversation's going to go.
09:39.005 --> 09:50.129
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can be completely right about the facts and still lose in that exchange because what landed was whatever the relationship was.
09:50.189 --> 09:54.370
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they think you don't respect them, or you don't care about their feelings, or whatever that is.
09:54.850 --> 09:59.332
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what the other person's reacting to, not the facts, not the information.
09:59.752 --> 10:02.993
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know some of this, I'm going to say that, and you're like, well, yeah, that's obvious.
10:03.473 --> 10:08.837
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're not doing the thing you need to do if you really understand this and which is what I'm going to teach you today.
10:11.239 --> 10:16.644
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to my clients was telling their teenager, they had an argument with their teenager.
10:16.664 --> 10:20.647
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they said something like, you were supposed to text me the second you got there, right?
10:22.676 --> 10:24.857
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's accurate.
10:25.237 --> 10:28.818
[SPEAKER_00]: They were supposed to text the moment they got there, right?
10:28.898 --> 10:31.559
[SPEAKER_00]: The facts are accurate, there's a missed text.
10:31.599 --> 10:36.441
[SPEAKER_00]: But what her kid was hearing was you don't trust me, right?
10:36.661 --> 10:38.902
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why you're supposed to text the moment you get there.
10:38.942 --> 10:40.222
[SPEAKER_00]: They're hearing you don't trust me.
10:40.242 --> 10:46.844
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not hearing you don't trust the world or they're hearing like you don't think I can take care of myself.
10:47.084 --> 10:48.525
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to fight
10:49.909 --> 11:15.911
[SPEAKER_00]: that that's the layer they're fighting you don't trust me not the timeline that that's not what they're fighting do you see what I mean like that this is the stuff that goes on all the time this is why arguing harder doesn't work you're trying to win on content but disagreement is happening on the relationship layer right and and words about the facts don't touch that feelings do feelings touch that
11:17.099 --> 11:20.404
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let's, there's an elephant in the room here.
11:20.424 --> 11:25.712
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really funny, which is why does naming it out loud feel so strange?
11:25.832 --> 11:26.994
[SPEAKER_00]: Why does it feel so strange?
11:28.516 --> 11:28.957
[SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me.
11:30.659 --> 11:38.467
[SPEAKER_00]: name it out loud feels weird because you were never taught to do this outside, unless you've been to therapy.
11:39.067 --> 11:40.008
[SPEAKER_00]: You were never taught this.
11:40.088 --> 11:42.030
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so rare to have been taught this otherwise.
11:42.631 --> 11:47.636
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, out here in the real world, it's basically a social rule you're not supposed to break.
11:48.176 --> 11:48.456
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay?
11:49.397 --> 11:49.798
[SPEAKER_00]: for real.
11:50.218 --> 11:52.419
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know how you know what I compare this to?
11:52.920 --> 11:55.742
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something in acting called breaking the fourth wall.
11:55.802 --> 11:56.622
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you know what this is.
11:56.663 --> 11:58.784
[SPEAKER_00]: But basically it comes from theater, the theater.
11:59.324 --> 12:07.450
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the theater, right, there was a wall, you know, if you're an actor on a stage, there's a wall behind you, and there's a walls on either side, right?
12:07.931 --> 12:09.732
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the audience is sitting in front.
12:09.812 --> 12:14.415
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're not supposed breaking the fourth wall is the times when those actors
12:17.157 --> 12:20.200
[SPEAKER_00]: or if you're watching a TV show, they talk directly to camera.
12:20.640 --> 12:23.602
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's very dis-decerting, right?
12:23.863 --> 12:28.146
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, it's dis-concerting in some ways because you're like, oh, what's going on here?
12:28.206 --> 12:32.549
[SPEAKER_00]: And it can be really funny, very awkward, very weird, but you don't expect it.
12:32.670 --> 12:35.131
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why the vast majority of,
12:35.892 --> 12:40.275
[SPEAKER_00]: plays and TV shows and movies do not break what they call the fourth wall.
12:40.295 --> 12:41.777
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't talk directly to you.
12:42.297 --> 12:43.598
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what this is.
12:44.158 --> 12:45.720
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why it feels weird.
12:45.780 --> 12:49.362
[SPEAKER_00]: You are kind of breaking the fourth wall is what I'm telling you to do today.
12:50.163 --> 12:51.624
[SPEAKER_00]: Group therapists have a name for this.
12:51.824 --> 12:52.925
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
12:53.526 --> 12:59.290
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of arguing the point, you name what's happening between two people in the group
13:03.518 --> 13:07.142
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we learn this in school at Nazium.
13:07.302 --> 13:11.106
[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically naming what's underneath out loud.
13:11.306 --> 13:20.815
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a very famous psychiatrist name, Irvin Yellum, who wrote kind of the seminal therapy book that everybody, if you're a therapist listening, you've read this book.
13:22.737 --> 13:29.882
[SPEAKER_00]: He pointed out that outside of a therapy room doing this is kind of close to forbidden again It's like breaking the fourth wall.
13:30.282 --> 13:39.848
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody does it at the dinner table And that's exactly why it feels so strange the first time you try it You're breaking a rule nobody wrote down and everyone is still following this rule.
13:40.109 --> 13:43.871
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm telling you right now The first few times you do this.
13:44.391 --> 13:45.952
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not gonna feel smooth.
13:46.052 --> 13:46.473
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna
13:47.053 --> 13:51.975
[SPEAKER_00]: feel like you just said something a little too loud or too honestly, or too, I don't know.
13:52.375 --> 13:54.676
[SPEAKER_00]: That's normal, but it's also the point, okay?
13:55.216 --> 13:57.077
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to walk you through what you do.
13:57.237 --> 13:58.878
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing when you're saying all this Abby?
13:59.018 --> 14:05.621
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going on and on, I have to name the feeling, I have to talk about what's underneath, I have to focus on the relationship.
14:06.041 --> 14:06.681
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I do that?
14:06.801 --> 14:08.122
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
14:08.262 --> 14:09.802
[SPEAKER_00]: And right, how exactly?
14:09.822 --> 14:11.223
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's two steps.
14:11.823 --> 14:12.904
[SPEAKER_00]: Two steps you need to make.
14:13.544 --> 14:16.367
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why today's broadcast isn't very long.
14:16.567 --> 14:23.915
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't, this is the most important one, probably you'll ever hear for really changing your whole life and how you operate.
14:24.456 --> 14:26.458
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the thing that we don't talk about though.
14:26.578 --> 14:28.080
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, it's breaking the fourth wall.
14:28.180 --> 14:30.602
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's so it's simple but not easy kind of thing.
14:30.803 --> 14:31.523
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's two steps.
14:32.124 --> 14:33.546
[SPEAKER_00]: The first step is the interruption.
14:34.756 --> 14:37.058
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the first move and it's not a clever line.
14:37.279 --> 14:38.200
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an interruption.
14:38.260 --> 14:41.784
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to stop the conversation before you can change it, okay?
14:42.164 --> 14:46.068
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are many ways to do that and you'll need to find what works for you.
14:46.268 --> 14:48.170
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm gonna give you a few ideas to get you started.
14:48.250 --> 14:50.152
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you're in this exchange.
14:50.192 --> 14:53.196
[SPEAKER_00]: You can feel what the person is getting angry or passive aggressive or
14:53.716 --> 14:58.161
[SPEAKER_00]: that they're maybe they're cold shouldering it or something, you know, giving you the cold shoulder or whatever.
14:58.542 --> 15:00.164
[SPEAKER_00]: You just, you stop right in the middle.
15:00.224 --> 15:05.309
[SPEAKER_00]: You stop them as they're, they could be all heated and going and you go, hey, hey, can we stop for a second?
15:06.090 --> 15:07.232
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we just stop for a second?
15:07.352 --> 15:10.536
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we're in a power struggle right now and this does not feel good.
15:11.457 --> 15:12.378
[SPEAKER_00]: Or even just don't,
15:13.708 --> 15:15.689
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, you know, hey, wait, let's pause.
15:15.729 --> 15:17.489
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something else going on here.
15:17.969 --> 15:19.030
[SPEAKER_00]: That's another thing you can say.
15:20.070 --> 15:23.231
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, the free download for today is giving you a ton of these, okay?
15:23.271 --> 15:28.973
[SPEAKER_00]: So as you don't have to take notes, you can get the free download for today, but I'll talk about that later.
15:30.433 --> 15:30.973
[SPEAKER_00]: What else can you say?
15:30.993 --> 15:35.175
[SPEAKER_00]: You can say something like, hold on, I don't think this is really about the facts anymore.
15:36.075 --> 15:36.915
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we stop?
15:37.055 --> 15:39.096
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel really far away from you right now.
15:39.716 --> 15:40.716
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go, that'll bring.
15:41.017 --> 15:41.817
[SPEAKER_00]: What you're doing?
15:42.890 --> 15:46.216
[SPEAKER_00]: is bringing someone here and now you're bringing them into the room.
15:46.236 --> 15:49.862
[SPEAKER_00]: When we start talking, man, we get on autopilot and we just start going.
15:49.942 --> 15:50.683
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to give you
15:53.112 --> 16:17.471
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... this happened i'll give you a couple that happened recently for me with my clients so i was i'm working with an executive uh... who is in some trouble and i work with a lot of executives who have some problems and he uh... i'm in the session with him and he is angry he doesn't want to meet with me he doesn't want he doesn't think he needs me he doesn't think he has a drinking problem he doesn't think a lot of things
16:23.153 --> 16:27.437
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm in a session with him, and I realize that I'm like arguing with him.
16:27.677 --> 16:28.558
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like me.
16:28.799 --> 16:32.542
[SPEAKER_00]: I have all this experience 40 years, all my own personal therapy.
16:33.243 --> 16:34.464
[SPEAKER_00]: I meditate before the session.
16:34.484 --> 16:35.825
[SPEAKER_00]: I do all the things, guess what?
16:35.945 --> 16:36.746
[SPEAKER_00]: I got pulled in.
16:37.687 --> 16:39.269
[SPEAKER_00]: I next thing I know, I am pulled in.
16:39.649 --> 16:40.390
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I stopped.
16:40.990 --> 16:42.912
[SPEAKER_00]: I said stop, stop.
16:43.633 --> 16:45.455
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said do I might go, you're good.
16:46.590 --> 16:51.473
[SPEAKER_00]: You are good, and he's just staring at me, he's like, what, I said, wow, I got pulled right in.
16:51.774 --> 16:54.516
[SPEAKER_00]: You pulled me right into this argument.
16:54.656 --> 16:56.297
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm arguing with you now, I can't believe it.
16:56.397 --> 17:00.920
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I'm going to tell you, you should give yourself a prize because it's hard.
17:01.320 --> 17:04.983
[SPEAKER_00]: I catch myself, that's my job is to do a good job.
17:05.003 --> 17:07.464
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said to him, I said, wow, I am not doing right by you.
17:08.325 --> 17:11.047
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I apologize, and I really meant it.
17:11.187 --> 17:12.408
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I apologize.
17:12.708 --> 17:14.810
[SPEAKER_00]: I needed to be, I have to up my game with you.
17:15.762 --> 17:18.804
[SPEAKER_00]: and then he's just staring at me, right?
17:19.164 --> 17:19.804
[SPEAKER_00]: Staring at me.
17:20.304 --> 17:23.506
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I said to him, you know, does this happen a lot?
17:23.706 --> 17:25.807
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you like this, right here?
17:27.148 --> 17:28.668
[SPEAKER_00]: And he, he was like, what?
17:29.069 --> 17:31.069
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said this right here, does this happen a lot?
17:31.150 --> 17:35.211
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel like people who are there to help you, you end up arguing with them?
17:35.372 --> 17:37.833
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that like, I'm here, I work for you.
17:37.853 --> 17:42.075
[SPEAKER_00]: I know somebody else told me to come in, but I worked for you and here,
17:43.385 --> 17:47.508
[SPEAKER_00]: like I don't and here we are where I'm in an argument where I don't want to work for you.
17:47.589 --> 17:49.630
[SPEAKER_00]: I said it like but I do want to.
17:49.670 --> 17:50.731
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to turn this around.
17:51.151 --> 17:52.813
[SPEAKER_00]: Like do you see what that is?
17:53.173 --> 17:57.237
[SPEAKER_00]: It's right there, right in the moment, right talking about what's happening.
17:58.237 --> 18:02.261
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay and that shifts the conversation and we had a really good conversation on the other side.
18:02.281 --> 18:05.603
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course we did because we were here and now we were present, we were doing it.
18:07.003 --> 18:11.386
[SPEAKER_00]: I had another client, this is, okay, this is more than a week ago though, but still.
18:12.287 --> 18:16.689
[SPEAKER_00]: And he, another man, I love the men I work with, thank you to all the men I work with.
18:16.909 --> 18:18.951
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was on and on.
18:19.191 --> 18:22.092
[SPEAKER_00]: He was talking about something and this is what he does.
18:22.153 --> 18:33.139
[SPEAKER_00]: He mansplains and he, this is why he's having a lot of trouble with his, he's here because of his partner, you know, that he needed some help and his, his marriage is feeling very rocky.
18:34.700 --> 18:43.391
[SPEAKER_00]: And I realized that I was kind of bored listening to him and so I stopped him and I said, hey, I'm going to stop you.
18:44.267 --> 18:45.148
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the interruption.
18:45.768 --> 18:46.509
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to stop you.
18:48.730 --> 18:49.671
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to tell you something.
18:50.352 --> 18:52.854
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I was drifting off the little as you were talking.
18:53.294 --> 19:00.099
[SPEAKER_00]: And he, of course, was a little, like I have a very good relationship with him so I could do this and he said, what is that, Abby?
19:00.620 --> 19:01.480
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm paying you a lot of money.
19:01.500 --> 19:02.201
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what are you talking about?
19:02.241 --> 19:03.101
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I know.
19:03.121 --> 19:08.626
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, but what do you think, like, did you not notice that I wasn't engaged?
19:09.426 --> 19:11.228
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that I wasn't really listening?
19:11.348 --> 19:12.228
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you not tell?
19:13.557 --> 19:19.425
[SPEAKER_00]: And we had such a good conversation about this and he said, and again, I wasn't drifting for an hour of the session.
19:19.445 --> 19:25.012
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like a minute or seconds or something, but I was noticing that I had to keep kind of pulling myself back in.
19:25.472 --> 19:30.098
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then I got to ask him, does this remind you of anything to all your conversations go this way?
19:30.659 --> 19:36.062
[SPEAKER_00]: do you ever pick up on the cues of other people when you're having when you're talking?
19:36.503 --> 19:38.704
[SPEAKER_00]: And we again had a great conversation.
19:38.744 --> 19:43.527
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a little, he was funny, he goes, I'm a little about her, but I get it, I get what you're doing here.
19:45.468 --> 19:51.472
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you see how, what you're doing is people talk and they're sort of in their heads kind of going.
19:51.812 --> 19:53.093
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on autopilot.
19:53.193 --> 19:57.236
[SPEAKER_00]: And what you're doing when you interrupt is you're taking them off of autopilot.
19:57.796 --> 20:03.741
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you, if the other person goes quiet instead of arguing, the still works, you know, the interruption.
20:04.481 --> 20:05.442
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you've gotten quiet.
20:06.143 --> 20:07.904
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that's really about what I said.
20:07.984 --> 20:09.345
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about what's going on?
20:09.685 --> 20:10.686
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what's going on right now?
20:10.986 --> 20:12.267
[SPEAKER_00]: I see your quietness, right?
20:12.748 --> 20:13.889
[SPEAKER_00]: Any version does the job.
20:14.549 --> 20:20.774
[SPEAKER_00]: What you're doing is you're interrupting the words, the content, and you're naming what's underneath instead.
20:20.854 --> 20:23.216
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, and that's step two, really, is naming it.
20:23.656 --> 20:30.241
[SPEAKER_00]: because once you've, and I'm doing a little combo here, so you're getting both, but once you've stopped, you did the interruption part.
20:32.082 --> 20:39.748
[SPEAKER_00]: The second step is, again, finding what's underneath the feeling, the tension that whatever's going on underneath the agenda.
20:40.508 --> 20:44.731
[SPEAKER_00]: One of my favorite questions to ask, really, after I interrupt, I'm like, hey, can we stop right now?
20:45.972 --> 20:46.913
[SPEAKER_00]: Could we just stop for a minute?
20:47.173 --> 20:49.755
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I say to them, what are you feeling right now?
20:49.835 --> 20:51.296
[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually what I did with them.
20:53.035 --> 20:54.035
[SPEAKER_00]: the guy that I argued with.
20:54.656 --> 20:56.536
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I was giving you the next version.
20:56.576 --> 20:59.057
[SPEAKER_00]: But I saw, I said, what are you feeling right now?
20:59.918 --> 21:01.738
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, what do you mean?
21:02.279 --> 21:03.479
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, what are you feeling right now?
21:04.319 --> 21:19.365
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you ask another person this, they'll usually, and you could also ask yourself what you're feeling right now, by the way, that works too, like to notice that you're getting pulled in to something, that's what happened with the guy that I was arguing with, I was noticing I was feeling angry.
21:21.806 --> 21:26.369
[SPEAKER_00]: misunderstood and frustrated and, you know, that's not my job is not to feel any of those things.
21:26.429 --> 21:30.031
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, to feel present and compassionate and all that.
21:30.051 --> 21:32.093
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, oops, I am in a not in a good place.
21:32.968 --> 21:40.195
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and let me say this, I know I'm sorry I'm interrupting myself, but most people when you say, what are you feeling right now?
21:40.376 --> 21:42.217
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll give you a thought, not a feeling.
21:42.638 --> 21:44.039
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you, you're going to see it.
21:44.059 --> 21:48.724
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be flabbergasted by how hard it is for people to name a feeling and that's the point.
21:49.685 --> 21:52.107
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you're going to hear like, so I'll stop.
21:52.207 --> 21:53.348
[SPEAKER_00]: I stopped this guy.
21:53.369 --> 21:54.209
[SPEAKER_00]: So what are you feeling right now?
21:54.249 --> 21:56.392
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes, he said, I feel like you're not listening to me.
21:58.292 --> 21:59.053
[SPEAKER_00]: that's not a feeling.
22:00.213 --> 22:06.878
[SPEAKER_00]: If someone says I feel like, you know, I feel like you always do this, whatever, I feel like that's not a feeling.
22:06.938 --> 22:16.824
[SPEAKER_00]: It's I feel, Matt, glad angry said, shy, overwhelmed, anxious, depressed, happy, joyous, free, a feeling should only come after that.
22:17.485 --> 22:20.326
[SPEAKER_00]: But people will give you thoughts, okay?
22:21.347 --> 22:23.889
[SPEAKER_00]: Or they might say something like, you'll say how, what are you feeling right now?
22:23.909 --> 22:26.190
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, well, I'm just trying to get you to understand what I'm saying.
22:27.090 --> 22:28.751
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not answering the question.
22:29.092 --> 22:31.653
[SPEAKER_00]: All thoughts, all not feelings.
22:31.833 --> 22:33.934
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, some start with I feel, right?
22:33.954 --> 22:35.235
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like, you know, no.
22:35.795 --> 22:37.897
[SPEAKER_00]: So you want to keep asking.
22:38.537 --> 22:44.901
[SPEAKER_00]: So that usually right there, I'll say, I, yes, I understand that, but what are you feeling right now?
22:45.855 --> 22:51.358
[SPEAKER_00]: You're looking again for scared, hurt, embarrassed, abandoned, rejected, alone.
22:51.478 --> 22:52.859
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care, something, right?
22:53.159 --> 22:57.921
[SPEAKER_00]: And you need to stay with it until you get there because this is the key to the whole thing.
22:57.941 --> 23:05.725
[SPEAKER_00]: And in my experience, once people name a feeling, it's like the guard comes down.
23:05.905 --> 23:10.288
[SPEAKER_00]: And they often, I'm telling you right now, they will exhale, or they will sigh.
23:11.280 --> 23:27.934
[SPEAKER_00]: and there's actual brain research behind why this happens, by the way, because when people put a feeling into words, we've done brain scans on this, I'll link to the research that shows that the amygdala, your brain's fear center, your alarm system, it calms down almost immediately.
23:28.194 --> 23:30.476
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost immediately, when you put a feeling into words, I know.
23:31.056 --> 23:32.297
[SPEAKER_00]: So naming the feeling,
23:33.454 --> 23:35.395
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't just describe what's happening.
23:35.535 --> 23:40.676
[SPEAKER_00]: It changes what's happening in your body and the other person's body.
23:41.216 --> 23:45.997
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they're finally there in the room with you instead of reacting in the moment.
23:46.137 --> 23:46.737
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's so great.
23:46.757 --> 23:49.698
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I find is I'll say, like, how are you feeling right now?
23:50.138 --> 23:51.158
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll do that thing.
23:51.178 --> 23:53.139
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, like, I just feel like you're not listening.
23:53.159 --> 23:56.680
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel, and I'm like, no, no, no, I feel like, feel like, what do you feel?
23:56.760 --> 23:57.400
[SPEAKER_00]: Name of feeling?
23:58.160 --> 23:59.821
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll you'll push.
23:59.961 --> 24:01.542
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually a people hang up on me.
24:02.443 --> 24:05.365
[SPEAKER_00]: This is family members, but I've had people hang up on me.
24:05.385 --> 24:06.786
[SPEAKER_00]: They get so frustrated.
24:06.926 --> 24:08.267
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you think about that,
24:09.899 --> 24:10.559
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
24:10.599 --> 24:22.984
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good information if they couldn't name a feeling, if asking someone a name a feeling, get some so frustrated that they blow up or walk out of the room or hang up the phone, you were never communicating to begin with.
24:23.584 --> 24:25.365
[SPEAKER_00]: You were never having a conversation and begin with.
24:25.925 --> 24:32.628
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how far they were from any place that you could have a real connecting conversation.
24:33.028 --> 24:34.669
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, good information.
24:35.729 --> 24:43.352
[SPEAKER_00]: But what happens what I find so much is that someone's like, I just, I don't know, I, you know, I guess I, I just feel frustrated.
24:43.392 --> 24:49.195
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, and they're like, yeah, yeah, I'm just like, I'm sort of, I'm feeling frustrated.
24:49.215 --> 24:50.596
[SPEAKER_00]: This is hard.
24:51.216 --> 24:53.397
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can hear everything shift.
24:54.358 --> 24:59.783
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so hard, I feel, and I'm like, yeah, I feel far from you too, or I feel frustrated too.
24:59.843 --> 25:00.324
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate that.
25:00.344 --> 25:01.305
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we try again?
25:01.365 --> 25:02.586
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we try different language?
25:02.606 --> 25:03.367
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we bump up up up?
25:03.887 --> 25:15.159
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I've got somewhere to go because I've unhooked the reaction, the physical brain hijacking that has happened, you've unhooked it in this moment.
25:16.227 --> 25:17.488
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.
25:17.508 --> 25:19.350
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a few other ways to ask the same question.
25:19.390 --> 25:21.171
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, so what are you feeling right now is my favorite?
25:21.231 --> 25:23.593
[SPEAKER_00]: But you, you could ask what's happening for you right now.
25:24.433 --> 25:26.655
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, what's the feeling underneath this?
25:27.096 --> 25:32.400
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've had to put a single word on it, what would it be that you're experiencing right now with me?
25:32.460 --> 25:38.604
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, um, any of that, um, some of my favorite questions,
25:39.831 --> 25:43.135
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll also ask about the relationship directly, not just the feeling.
25:43.195 --> 25:44.216
[SPEAKER_00]: That's another way you can go.
25:45.818 --> 25:50.543
[SPEAKER_00]: I might say something like, so right now, let me just, again, you're interrupted, right?
25:50.724 --> 25:51.965
[SPEAKER_00]: Just, I want to stop you for a minute.
25:52.626 --> 25:56.070
[SPEAKER_00]: As we're talking right now, are you feeling loving towards me right now?
25:57.852 --> 25:59.874
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you feeling compassion towards me right now?
26:01.216 --> 26:03.016
[SPEAKER_00]: What a good what a good interruption.
26:03.657 --> 26:05.457
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you feeling connected to me right now?
26:06.357 --> 26:09.178
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, notice all the right now because that's what you're doing.
26:10.018 --> 26:14.079
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel happy in this conversation like are you happy in this conversation right now?
26:14.139 --> 26:15.560
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you happy we're having it?
26:16.980 --> 26:19.460
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, I you know, I didn't want to have to talk about this with you.
26:19.640 --> 26:21.941
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, that's coming across loud and clear.
26:21.981 --> 26:22.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we try again?
26:23.341 --> 26:25.262
[SPEAKER_00]: So why are we even having this conversation then?
26:26.695 --> 26:30.077
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because, you know, we were upset about blah, blah, blah, blah.
26:30.177 --> 26:32.739
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so our goal is to get closer, right?
26:32.859 --> 26:34.320
[SPEAKER_00]: Our goal is to feel connected.
26:34.860 --> 26:35.921
[SPEAKER_00]: So can we start there?
26:36.341 --> 26:36.941
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you.
26:37.542 --> 26:39.583
[SPEAKER_00]: I want us to come to a solution together.
26:39.683 --> 26:41.924
[SPEAKER_00]: Notice how this goes into other things I've taught you, okay?
26:42.404 --> 26:42.665
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
26:43.285 --> 26:46.047
[SPEAKER_00]: So can we just stop and do this right now?
26:47.077 --> 26:47.277
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
26:47.337 --> 26:56.061
[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, somebody in my sub-sec community is talking about her mother-law and who is, they're planning a wedding and future mother-in-law, sorry.
26:56.141 --> 26:57.322
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's really stuck.
26:57.462 --> 26:59.563
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we always come back to like boundaries.
26:59.583 --> 27:00.983
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you've got to make a boundary these people.
27:01.063 --> 27:01.764
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's true.
27:02.304 --> 27:08.647
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would also really say I would love for this person and my community maybe to stop her mother-in-law and just go,
27:09.267 --> 27:12.828
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel so much tension in our relationship and it makes me sad.
27:12.948 --> 27:21.490
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're about to be related or it feels like you're maybe, I think the mother-in-law is being very passive or and passive aggressive.
27:21.930 --> 27:26.951
[SPEAKER_00]: So it might be something, you know, never say to anybody, I feel like you're being passive aggressive, like don't do that.
27:26.991 --> 27:29.192
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's not a feeling anyway, okay, it's a thought.
27:29.232 --> 27:30.512
[SPEAKER_00]: But you might say like,
27:32.614 --> 27:39.401
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel so disconnected from you, I get this idea that you want to say something you're not saying.
27:40.262 --> 27:42.324
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell me how you really feel about this?
27:42.644 --> 27:43.585
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm open.
27:43.665 --> 27:44.506
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to hear it.
27:44.586 --> 27:45.167
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
27:45.187 --> 27:48.891
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you see where you're talking about what's underneath?
27:49.151 --> 27:49.732
[SPEAKER_00]: What's underneath?
27:49.832 --> 27:51.874
[SPEAKER_00]: I have another client who's a supervisor.
27:54.427 --> 27:56.388
[SPEAKER_00]: of a guy who pushes back a lot.
27:56.588 --> 28:15.196
[SPEAKER_00]: He does, you know, and I told her to ask him, I said, I want you to go back and say to him, like, again, interrupt the next time he, because he's always pushing back on what he says, he's always like who says, and where'd you get that information, and I want proof, and you know, and I said, interrupt him, go, hey, I wanna, I wanna just stop for a second.
28:15.916 --> 28:18.777
[SPEAKER_00]: And then ask the question, are you happy on your supervisor?
28:19.558 --> 28:20.878
[SPEAKER_00]: It's such a good question.
28:21.398 --> 28:22.759
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you happy on your supervisor?
28:23.521 --> 28:27.262
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, of course, that person is blustering like, what do you mean?
28:27.282 --> 28:31.104
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've worked together for years on the font, you know, I think I even talked about this on another episode.
28:31.124 --> 28:31.944
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember which one.
28:31.964 --> 28:34.085
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, but it's such a good example.
28:34.705 --> 28:38.406
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, and he's not happy or he wouldn't be pushing back.
28:38.506 --> 28:40.027
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's the conversation you can have.
28:40.067 --> 28:43.068
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it doesn't seem like you're happy that I'm your supervisor.
28:43.368 --> 28:44.148
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel, you know,
28:44.568 --> 28:49.652
[SPEAKER_00]: I see you push back on everything, you know, you ask for facts and other things, you seem unhappy with me.
28:50.233 --> 28:54.296
[SPEAKER_00]: It definitely seems like, so let me ask you another question, do trust me as your supervisor.
28:55.497 --> 29:00.260
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you question everything I do, which makes me think you don't trust me or you wouldn't question so much.
29:01.041 --> 29:09.387
[SPEAKER_00]: Like of the like who said, you're not just quite, you're not asking me questions like to figure out how to better do what I ask you to do.
29:09.888 --> 29:12.170
[SPEAKER_00]: You're questioning whether you should even do it.
29:12.870 --> 29:15.993
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I'm having a hard time.
29:16.073 --> 29:16.614
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
29:16.774 --> 29:18.656
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a different conversation to have.
29:18.696 --> 29:19.917
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you see how this is though?
29:20.338 --> 29:29.107
[SPEAKER_00]: When people get up in their heads and they start spouting the facts or doubling down, you're dealing with people who are reacting, not acting.
29:29.227 --> 29:30.148
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're dealing with.
29:30.528 --> 29:31.730
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on autopilot.
29:32.330 --> 29:34.851
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not really there in the conversation with you.
29:34.891 --> 29:35.711
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's the point?
29:35.811 --> 29:38.692
[SPEAKER_00]: At that point, they're trying to win at something.
29:38.792 --> 29:42.734
[SPEAKER_00]: And you need to connect and get back to the present moment.
29:43.314 --> 29:53.597
[SPEAKER_00]: You even, like the example I just gave you, can say that, like, it feels like you're trying to win or trying to beat me at something, or trying to get over on me, or trying to discredit me.
29:54.218 --> 29:57.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Say what you think, say it.
30:02.922 --> 30:12.527
[SPEAKER_00]: When you do these two steps, two step approach, the interruption and then the naming, whatever you think is going on, that's what gets you back to the present moment.
30:12.588 --> 30:14.969
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what gets you in the here and now, okay?
30:15.669 --> 30:23.414
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm gonna give you a little heads up that the, it's not sometimes the other person will deny feeling
30:26.983 --> 30:28.844
[SPEAKER_00]: some feeling that is obviously right there.
30:28.884 --> 30:29.725
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just going to deny it.
30:30.025 --> 30:33.087
[SPEAKER_00]: I've literally had people yelling at me and I'm like, wow, you're so angry.
30:33.127 --> 30:33.988
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm not angry.
30:34.188 --> 30:35.309
[SPEAKER_00]: I cast the yellow at me.
30:36.149 --> 30:37.870
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah.
30:38.571 --> 30:42.414
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've just stopped them and said, you're really angry right now.
30:42.494 --> 30:43.574
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even say you seem.
30:43.594 --> 30:46.696
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, it's clear to me that you're really angry right now.
30:46.716 --> 30:50.039
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's actually disturbing to me that you don't realize it.
30:51.620 --> 30:52.801
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not angry.
30:52.821 --> 30:54.422
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to make my point, you know.
30:55.898 --> 31:01.421
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to argue that at some point, like, you know, say the thing, but reflect what you're hearing.
31:01.801 --> 31:02.462
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't argue.
31:03.002 --> 31:05.623
[SPEAKER_00]: You are you are just it sounds like I'm going to me.
31:05.844 --> 31:06.904
[SPEAKER_00]: I can hear it in your voice.
31:07.024 --> 31:12.007
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you try and then I just say so if I don't know if you think you're angry or not.
31:12.227 --> 31:17.931
[SPEAKER_00]: I am experiencing it as anger and it feels really hostile and like we're not gonna have any communication.
31:17.971 --> 31:21.574
[SPEAKER_00]: So can you please try saying that to me in a different way?
31:22.194 --> 31:26.017
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you try that, or should we come back to this later?
31:26.618 --> 31:29.060
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't mean that's when you sort of interrupt on that level.
31:31.882 --> 31:37.426
[SPEAKER_00]: Another move you can make, because I love you and I wanna give you a ton of options and flexibility here.
31:38.597 --> 31:43.720
[SPEAKER_00]: Another thing I do which I love is I ask them to trade a statement for a question.
31:45.000 --> 31:45.681
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll say that.
31:45.701 --> 31:49.583
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you ask me a question instead of telling me something right now?
31:50.405 --> 31:52.507
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what are you trying to understand?
31:53.268 --> 31:53.748
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you try it?
31:53.768 --> 31:54.729
[SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of times, they'll do that.
31:55.090 --> 31:56.191
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you need to bubble up a button.
31:56.811 --> 32:00.855
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you know, or you're not listening to what I'm saying.
32:01.216 --> 32:05.680
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say, you say I'm not listening, so I'm not hearing you.
32:05.820 --> 32:06.701
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're saying.
32:07.322 --> 32:10.245
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you ask me a question then so you can understand why?
32:12.663 --> 32:17.824
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you hear, so put you in the room with the person, the here and now, and it shifts.
32:18.284 --> 32:24.045
[SPEAKER_00]: It also shifts the responsibility back to them if we're not, you know, communications are two way street.
32:24.625 --> 32:29.766
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're stating the same thing to me over and over and I'm disagreeing and I've said this before.
32:29.846 --> 32:33.747
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times when we disagree, people say we don't understand or we're not listening.
32:34.107 --> 32:34.927
[SPEAKER_00]: That happens a lot.
32:35.587 --> 32:36.487
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can say that.
32:36.967 --> 32:39.948
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like if I disagree with you, tell me I'm not listening.
32:42.890 --> 32:44.991
[SPEAKER_00]: do you need me to repeat back what you said?
32:45.011 --> 32:48.373
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know it like start to ask questions?
32:48.493 --> 32:49.133
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll ask that too.
32:49.173 --> 32:53.915
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can ask me one question right now to understand what's happening between us, what would it be?
32:54.216 --> 32:54.756
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll ask that.
32:55.796 --> 32:59.237
[SPEAKER_00]: If you could ask me one question right now, so I could better understand this, what would it be?
32:59.937 --> 33:09.299
[SPEAKER_00]: That question alone really tends to slow everything down because it asks someone to get curious instead of getting their point across.
33:09.559 --> 33:10.439
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're doing.
33:10.899 --> 33:19.361
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to be really, this works whether you're doing it with a partner, your dad, your best friend, your sister, your boss, your kid, anywhere, anywhere.
33:20.021 --> 33:41.720
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really, again, you're going to stop first, you're going to interrupt and then ask those questions to identify where you are right now to bring them in the room and you're going to stay with the answer until it's a real feeling not a thought standing in for one okay you you've got to do that all right and then.
33:42.420 --> 33:44.201
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say you also, what do I say?
33:44.221 --> 33:46.422
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to check yourself before you wreck yourself, right?
33:46.622 --> 33:47.883
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously none of this works.
33:48.003 --> 34:01.149
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not checking your own behavior, if you're not mindful, and in the here and now yourself during these interactions, otherwise you're going to be on autopilot and going toe to toe in the argument, like I was with that executive guy.
34:01.209 --> 34:07.873
[SPEAKER_00]: When I got like pulled in, it's critical that you work on your mindfulness skills consistently.
34:07.893 --> 34:08.513
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to do it.
34:08.693 --> 34:11.274
[SPEAKER_00]: to me, I do it all the time and I still got pulled in.
34:11.334 --> 34:15.957
[SPEAKER_00]: You will not do this life perfectly, but we call it a practice because you have to practice.
34:16.377 --> 34:17.257
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to practice.
34:17.337 --> 34:19.939
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't have the free mindfulness starter kit yet, you're killing me.
34:20.019 --> 34:20.799
[SPEAKER_00]: You're killing me.
34:20.879 --> 34:21.760
[SPEAKER_00]: You're killing me, smalls.
34:22.400 --> 34:22.780
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
34:22.940 --> 34:23.261
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
34:24.301 --> 34:25.162
[SPEAKER_00]: Just get it already.
34:25.682 --> 34:27.323
[SPEAKER_00]: But you have to work on mindfulness skills.
34:28.023 --> 34:31.605
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, consistently, you don't go to the gym once to get fit.
34:31.885 --> 34:36.546
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, or eat well in one day to get fit, you have to do it over time, right?
34:37.046 --> 34:46.889
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can catch yourself when it's happening and get the train back on the tracks or so that you can even stop it before it even happens, right?
34:48.290 --> 34:49.130
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're going for.
34:50.305 --> 34:56.090
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I don't want to belabor this too much, but I'm hoping, again, I think this is the most important thing you'll learn.
34:56.711 --> 35:02.516
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is the one that beats everything else I've ever done and I should have saved it for episode 400.
35:03.356 --> 35:06.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's the one, my, my love, it is the one.
35:06.479 --> 35:08.581
[SPEAKER_00]: If you start doing this, your life will change.
35:08.721 --> 35:10.643
[SPEAKER_00]: I promise you, I guarantee it.
35:11.123 --> 35:12.885
[SPEAKER_00]: You're, because your relationships will change.
35:13.485 --> 35:14.966
[SPEAKER_00]: how you're talking to people will change.
35:15.006 --> 35:21.472
[SPEAKER_00]: The communication shifts, the connections shifts, everything shifts, it's why we do it in groups.
35:22.073 --> 35:23.974
[SPEAKER_00]: It's why we're taught to do it as therapists.
35:24.054 --> 35:27.177
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you, that's the point, that's why we're taught that.
35:27.597 --> 35:35.925
[SPEAKER_00]: So that we can help people see what's really going on so they can get past all the stories that are telling themselves, that's the point.
35:36.025 --> 35:39.167
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm giving you the inside track here, right?
35:39.328 --> 35:39.568
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
35:39.968 --> 35:43.991
[SPEAKER_00]: So the free download for today is the circle breaker script sheet.
35:44.071 --> 35:47.854
[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically what you want to say when a conversation won't move forward, right?
35:48.554 --> 35:57.381
[SPEAKER_00]: And whenever I talk about the free downloads or the therapy to go bundle for today, if this is an issue for you, you should really get the therapy to go bundle for today, which I'll tell you about in a second.
35:57.781 --> 35:59.423
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything can be found below the video.
35:59.443 --> 36:02.185
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're watching on YouTube, hello, like and subscribe if you are.
36:03.385 --> 36:10.187
[SPEAKER_00]: or you can go to my website, go to this episode, and I write a full blog, and I have way before AI.
36:10.747 --> 36:12.728
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been writing full blogs for years.
36:13.088 --> 36:19.610
[SPEAKER_00]: You can read the blog all the links are there to past episodes that might help you to, you know, the free download, to the research, everything's there.
36:20.468 --> 36:24.489
[SPEAKER_00]: And the therapy to go, I do what's called, I call it a therapy to go bundle.
36:24.509 --> 36:31.371
[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically therapy to go, like if you're working with a therapist, you could do this with your therapist or bring in the results with them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But you don't, that's the point is you don't have to have a therapist to do this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to help you go deeper.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a little therapy session to help you get to your underneath to your wise.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and they're $10.
36:43.634 --> 36:44.155
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you get, you're going to get the free download with it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You also get the blog.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you can kind of, what I would tell people is reread the blog, read the blog, not reread, read the blog, do the, the free download is kind of the first piece and then the
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[SPEAKER_00]: which role do you default to?
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a self scoring guide, you know, to which kind of role that member the blame, the playcator those.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's journaling prompts, there's a circle breaker tracker, you know, where you can break the circle, you know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a little worksheet for catching yourself before you get pulled in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: All of that is in therapy to go by no for just $10, which is pretty good deal.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and that's it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That is today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really, I would love for you to listen to this over and over.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's such a, again, we're breaking the fourth wall.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It is such a refined, nuanced thing.
37:39.076 --> 37:40.057
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's simple.
37:40.097 --> 37:43.661
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, but it's not easy, but it is the secret to really,
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[SPEAKER_00]: connected, loving, compassionate relationships.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, and you deserve those every single day.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, I hope you practice.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I love you so much.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being here with me, and we'll be gonna talk next week.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for spending time with me today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you're loving what you're learning here, come join my one love collective.
38:05.740 --> 38:07.122
[SPEAKER_00]: It's my private community.
38:07.502 --> 38:10.245
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be take these conversations even deeper.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You'll get a ton of bonus content.
38:13.709 --> 38:19.576
[SPEAKER_00]: Live Q&As with me, guided visualizations, journaling prompts, scripts,
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[SPEAKER_00]: and an incredible community of like-minded people ready to support you as you create more ease and joy in all your relationships.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's all waiting for you at AppieMedCraft.com or right-on-substack.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next week.
