Stephen G. Eoannou And the Practice of Turning Headlines into Fiction

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This file was generated by Descript <www.descript.com>
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Kristi Leonard: This is Plot Lab.
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Beth Uznis Johnson: Every episode,
we give an author a real headline-
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Kristi Leonard: And
brainstorm a brand new story.
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I'm Kristi.
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Beth Uznis Johnson: I'm Beth.
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Let's get this brainstorming
experiment started.
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Steven G. Eoannou is the author of the
award-winning short story collection
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Muscle Cars and the historical novels
After Pearl, Yesteryear, and Rook.
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After Pearl, the first in the Nicholas
Bishop Mystery series, was a Claymore
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Award finalist and has been awarded
the BookFest Award and Seba Clue
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Award for best detective novel.
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The second book, The Falling Woman, will
be published in twenty twenty seven.
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Kristi Leonard: So
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it is so great to have you, Steve.
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we are ready to do some magic together.
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We actually normally ask our guests
how they get their story ideas,
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but I happen to know that you
wrote a novel about a headline.
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Is that right?
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Stephen Eoannou: Thanks
for having me today.
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my first novel was called Rook.
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Um, it's based on the true story
of a man named Al Nussbaum,
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who was a, a bank robber.
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And the headline of the story
was, "The Strange True Tale of a
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Buffalo Bank Robber Turned Writer."
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- It had me hooked right from the beginning.
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It was like, who is this guy?
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Kristi Leonard: Right?
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Stephen Eoannou: he write?
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What did he steal?
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Uh, where's the money?
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And I read the article, um, and it
was about a local guy who, on the
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surface, he looked like a hardworking,
loving husband, married his high
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school sweetheart, started several
businesses, and occasionally he would
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tell his wife, Lolly, that he was going
out of town for work, but Al's work
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was robbing banks, and I just thought
that was a fascinating story, and that
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was something I wanted to explore.
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The book that's coming out next March
is called The Falling Woman, and that's
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also, was prompted by a newspaper
article and the accompanying photograph.
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Yeah.
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I- in 1942 here in Buffalo, New York, a
woman named Mary Miller, from Buffalo,
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checked into, the Genesee Hotel, went
up to her room, immediately climbed
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out on the ledge, and was waving
to the crowd and blowing kisses for
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10, 15 minutes, before she jumped.
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Kristi Leonard: Holly Cow
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Stephen Eoannou: Yeah, I
can't make this stuff up.
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In the crowd was, a
Courier Express reporter.
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That was the, the morning newspaper
here in town that folded in the '80s.
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Um, but he was in the crowd below with
his camera, and he actually caught
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her, mid-flight, between the second and
third floor, and it made the headlines
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of the Courier, and then 10 days,
later, it, appeared in Life Magazine.
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And what got me about that article at,
at the very end was, the investigator
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said there was going to be an autopsy
because there were wounds on the body,
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uh, that she had prior to the fall.
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And that ending of that article is…
I was, again, who was this woman?
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Why did she jump?
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What were the wounds?
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That's what, what propelled me to write,
the book that's coming out next March.
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So yeah, newspaper articles,
magazine articles, um, they're,
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they are a great source for me.
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Kristi Leonard: That's awesome.
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Well,
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definitely our, impetus for this
show was sort of the same thing.
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I think writers can hear anything
and think, "Oh, what story
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is gonna come out of that?"
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Stephen Eoannou: Yeah, it
took me a long time to learn
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just to be open and receptive.
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You know, the stories are all around us.
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Um, you know, there's messages
coming to us all the time, and
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we just have to be aware of them.
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Once you become more experienced as a
writer, You recognize them more easily.
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Kristi Leonard: Yeah.
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Did you ever read Big
Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert?
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Stephen Eoannou: I have not,
but it's on the list now
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Kristi Leonard: Yes.
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So she has this idea that stories
are just out there in the world,
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and it's up to a writer to, like,
tap into it and write the story,
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and if you don't, someone else will,
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Stephen Eoannou: That was actually
for my second novel, Yesteryear.
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That is part of the theme in it.
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Yesteryear is about, a man named Fran
Striker, and he created the character
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of The Lone Ranger and the Green Hornet,
and not many people remember his name
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because he sold the rights to The Lone
Ranger for $10 before it exploded into
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a 90-year money-making, uh, franchise.
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Kristi Leonard: poor
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Stephen Eoannou:
Historically it's inaccurate.
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I gave Fran Striker writer's block, and
Fran never had a moment of writer's block.
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but I gave him writer's block because I
wanted to explore that, that idea that
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characters and stories are all around us.
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So I gave Fran, in the
novel, writer's block.
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But what's happening all around him,
and the readers know this if they
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know anything about The Lone Ranger,
the white horse, the silver bullets,
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Kristi Leonard: Mm-hmm.
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Stephen Eoannou: as a greeting, those
are all in the novels, but Fran is
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unaware that they mean anything until
the end when he pulls everything
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together and creates that character.
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So that was a fun topic to explore.
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Yeah, and now I want to read that book to
see what mistakes I made in Yesteryear.
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Kristi Leonard: I don't think
there's any mistakes in writing.
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Never ever.
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All right, now let's get to
our little quick warm-up game.
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We call this The Book Imposter.
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ever
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Stephen Eoannou: Okay
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Kristi Leonard: ever played
the game Two Truths and a Lie?
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Stephen Eoannou: Sure.
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Kristi Leonard: it's kind of
based on that a little bit.
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So we actually have two book
descriptions that Beth is going to
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read to you, and one of them is real.
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Then other one is one that we made up, and
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Stephen Eoannou: Okay
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Kristi Leonard: are going to have
to determine which one is which.
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Are you
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Stephen Eoannou: Okay.
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Kristi Leonard: game?
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Stephen Eoannou: I'm ready
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Beth Uznis Johnson: All
right, big stakes, Steve.
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Here we go.
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Choose wisely.
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Number one.
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In a dying Rust Belt town, a young woman
aging out of foster care searches for
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spiritual transcendence while the lives
of her lonely neighbors collide in a
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week that culminates in shocking violence
and an unexpected glimpse of grace.
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Stephen Eoannou: Hmm?
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Beth Uznis Johnson: And
here's the second one.
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In 1930s Brooklyn, a disgraced
detective investigating the murder of a
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dockworker uncovers a web of corruption
stretching from the waterfront to City
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Hall and finds himself haunted by the
very people sworn to uphold the law
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Stephen Eoannou: Wow, those are tough.
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Kristi Leonard: Yeah.
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Don't they both sound
like books you wanna read?
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Stephen Eoannou: They do.
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Um, the second one I really wanna read.
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The second one I really wanna write.
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Um, but I think, I think the
first one is, is the real book
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Beth Uznis Johnson: Okay, you are correct.
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Kristi Leonard: Bravo,
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Beth Uznis Johnson: very good.
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Kristi Leonard: Which means
you can write the second one.
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Stephen Eoannou: I can
write the second one.
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Beth Uznis Johnson: I know definitely.
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We expect to see that from
you in a couple of years.
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The real book is the first one.
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titled The Rabbit Hutch by Tess Gunty,
and it won the National Book Award
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for Fiction in, twenty twenty-two.
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And here's a short description if
listeners want to check it out.
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In The Rabbit Hutch, Tess Gunty follows
eighteen-year-old Blandine Watkins, a
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former foster child living in a rundown
apartment complex in a struggling
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post-industrial town in Indiana.
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the course of one week, Blandine searches
for meaning and spiritual transcendence
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through her fascination with medieval
mystics while navigating a difficult life
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marked by poverty, trauma, and isolation.
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The novel weaves together the stories
of her neighbors and roommates, creating
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a portrait of a fractured community
shaped by economic decline and loneliness
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Kristi Leonard: Yeah,
National Book Award winner.
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Did you know that it was the book winner?
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Stephen Eoannou: I did not know that,
but, it sounded like it was something
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that was published, like, by a big five.
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That was my instinct
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Kristi Leonard: Good instincts.
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Beth Uznis Johnson: So I tried to choose
books that were kind of in the vein of
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what Steve writes, which is kind of gritty
Rust Belt type characters and people in
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economic uncertainty, things like that.
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Kristi Leonard: Well, that was very smart
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Beth Uznis Johnson: That's how
I chose "The Rabbit Hutch" today
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Stephen Eoannou: N-nice
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Kristi Leonard: Well, we will be sure to
add info about The Rabbit hutch to our
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show notes, so if you are interested,
uh, you'll find the information there.
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now that we're warmed up, we love to
get to this part of our show because
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this is where the fun happens.
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because I feel like with all the
information you can get out there
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about writing, the initiation
of ideas is not something that
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is talked about a whole lot.
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So we're just gonna riff on, an idea,
and the way that we do that is one that
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you are very familiar with already,
which is, plumbing headlines for ideas.
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So again, our fearless Beth is going
to read you three headlines, actual,
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real headlines, you get to choose one.
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Beth Uznis Johnson: Okay.
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Are you ready, Steve?
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Stephen Eoannou: I'm ready.
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Hit me
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Beth Uznis Johnson:
here's the first headline.
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Man declared dead wakes up
in coffin at his own wake.
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Number two, Buffalo area man ends his
fight to reclaim Albert, his twelve-foot
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alligator seized in twenty twenty-four.
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Stephen Eoannou: I know that story.
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Beth Uznis Johnson: I thought you might
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. I thought you might.
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The third headline is, "Welfare
check finds Ohio woman, 91,
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safe and playing video games."
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Stephen Eoannou: Could you read
the first one again, please?
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Beth Uznis Johnson: Yes, absolutely.
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Number one, man declared dead
wakes up in coffin at his own wake
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Stephen Eoannou: Yeah,
I'm going with number one.
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No offense to Albert the Alligator,
but I, I'm going with number one
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Beth Uznis Johnson: I'm
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so glad you chose
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number one.
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I've been thinking about that headline
a lot and all the fun things we could
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do with that from a story perspective.
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Kristi Leonard: I actually
live in Florida, so I know
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all about the alligators.
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Not really the pet alligators, however.
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In fact, I have one that lives outside
my window here, so I might be looking
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at one while we're talking about it.
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Beth Uznis Johnson: Oh
my gosh, that's funny.
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Well, so Steve, since we're not gonna
brainstorm about Albert the alligator,
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before we talk about what we are
brainstorming, can you tell us quickly,
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like what was the gist of Albert?
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What happened?
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Stephen Eoannou: this man, I think it
was in a suburb of Buffalo, , owned this
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alligator for years, and he actually had,
like, a indoor pool built for, for Albert.
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I mean, like decades, um, if I
remember the story right, he let the
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permits lapse that you have to have
to have an alligator , you know?
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Kristi Leonard: There's
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permits for
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that?
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Stephen Eoannou: yeah, evidently.
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Beth Uznis Johnson: I think
that's probably a good
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thing
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Stephen Eoannou: people found out,
yeah, the authorities found out that,
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that he wasn't in compliance with, you
know, the rules of keeping an alligator.
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And Albert wasn't on, like, a
really great diet, I guess, and
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they thought that Albert would be
better at an alligator preserve.
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So, they took A- Albert, and they
sent him to alligator camp someplace.
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The owner, tried legally to get him
back, and it went on for several years.
00:11:05.405 --> 00:11:08.965
And then finally the owner said, "You
know what? I really can't afford to do
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this anymore, and Albert seems to be happy
and healthy." So he dropped his lawsuit.
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Kristi Leonard: Wow
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Stephen Eoannou: you know, as an owner
of a small dog, I was kinda glad that
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he, he, uh, had the alligator removed
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Beth Uznis Johnson: I know.
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And personally, I think that
story has a very happy ending.
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I think Albert's probably
better off in the preserve than
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in someone's random pool
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Kristi Leonard: All right, so
we have our man in a coffin
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Stephen Eoannou: Mm-hmm.
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Kristi Leonard: up at his own wake.
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Where are we going with this?
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Who is he?
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Stephen Eoannou: Well, that's
the first question, right?
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I mean, every time I am a,
character-driven, writer.
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So the first thing that I think
about is, you know, who is this guy?
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Who is the guy that, that, played
chess and was a good husband
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but robbed banks on the weekend?
00:11:53.980 --> 00:11:54.440
Kristi Leonard: Yeah
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Stephen Eoannou: So I always begin with
who is the person, just like you asked.
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And then how did he die?
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Beth Uznis Johnson: So let's
think about some possibilities
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Stephen Eoannou: Of who
he is or how did he die?
00:12:04.298 --> 00:12:07.738
Beth Uznis Johnson: I think how he died
is an interesting first question to
00:12:07.738 --> 00:12:12.278
dive into, because it might represent
the state of mind when he wakes up
00:12:12.831 --> 00:12:14.212
Kristi Leonard: It also might
tell us a little bit about who
00:12:14.212 --> 00:12:16.332
he is based on how he died.
00:12:16.332 --> 00:12:22.392
Like, it would be totally different
if he died by natural causes or if
00:12:22.392 --> 00:12:24.402
he died because someone poisoned him
00:12:25.366 --> 00:12:25.556
Mm-hmm.
00:12:26.020 --> 00:12:26.810
Beth Uznis Johnson: that's true
00:12:26.842 --> 00:12:31.902
Stephen Eoannou: I, I think he has
to die in a very quirky, weird way.
00:12:31.902 --> 00:12:35.112
maybe Albert the alligator
got him, I don't know.
00:12:36.248 --> 00:12:39.668
It has to be something, I think,
a little… Not, not just, you
00:12:39.668 --> 00:12:42.734
know, a heart attack, while he was
climbing the stairs or something.
00:12:42.984 --> 00:12:45.678
I think it has to be the kind of
thing that you go, "Did that really
00:12:45.678 --> 00:12:47.228
ha- could someone really die like…
00:12:47.248 --> 00:12:51.134
Have people died that way?" You know,
something just bizarre, you know?
00:12:51.134 --> 00:12:51.358
Um
00:12:51.683 --> 00:12:55.338
Kristi Leonard: I think that would
actually feed into the idea that he
00:12:55.448 --> 00:12:58.181
could physically, like actually wake up.
00:12:58.294 --> 00:12:58.554
Stephen Eoannou: Right
00:12:58.708 --> 00:13:00.858
Kristi Leonard: a lot of ways
you could die that there's no way
00:13:00.858 --> 00:13:02.588
you would wake up at your wake.
00:13:02.988 --> 00:13:03.328
But if
00:13:03.426 --> 00:13:03.896
Stephen Eoannou: Right
00:13:04.196 --> 00:13:05.817
Kristi Leonard: weird, quirky way
00:13:05.817 --> 00:13:06.747
Beth Uznis Johnson: Well, that's true.
00:13:06.767 --> 00:13:12.237
And if, let's say he was attacked by
an exotic pet in the neighborhood,
00:13:12.677 --> 00:13:17.437
like an alligator, he could have
maybe been in a coma for a long
00:13:17.437 --> 00:13:20.047
period of time and then passed away.
00:13:20.327 --> 00:13:22.847
So he maybe was healed up
a little from his injuries.
00:13:22.847 --> 00:13:24.577
It wasn't too graphic.
00:13:25.787 --> 00:13:29.337
but he wakes up and he can… What,
what would, what would happen in there?
00:13:29.337 --> 00:13:30.217
You would hear?
00:13:31.047 --> 00:13:32.807
You would hear things going on around you?
00:13:32.844 --> 00:13:34.294
Hear people talking about you?
00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:37.159
Stephen Eoannou: so I would
think along those lines.
00:13:37.619 --> 00:13:42.719
The conversations he's overhearing is kind
of like in "A Christmas Carol," right?
00:13:42.719 --> 00:13:47.299
When, when Scrooge, is in the future
and he's hearing people talking about
00:13:47.319 --> 00:13:50.399
his death, even though they don't name
him, but you know, " He was such a
00:13:50.409 --> 00:13:54.009
miser," you know, "I hope I get his
stock at the exchange." You know, "I'll
00:13:54.009 --> 00:13:57.059
go to the funeral if they'll have- if
they're serving lunch." You know, if
00:13:57.059 --> 00:14:00.266
they're saying negative things about
that guy, and then you think, "Well,
00:14:00.266 --> 00:14:02.126
why did that bastard come back," right?
00:14:02.356 --> 00:14:05.536
How come, you know, nice Aunt
Franny can't come back from
00:14:05.536 --> 00:14:06.799
the dead and we got this jerk?
00:14:07.758 --> 00:14:08.538
Beth Uznis Johnson: Well it's a nice
00:14:08.606 --> 00:14:11.290
opportunity for rising tension
there just to overhear things
00:14:11.381 --> 00:14:12.031
Stephen Eoannou: Yeah.
00:14:12.331 --> 00:14:12.806
Beth Uznis Johnson: about you
00:14:12.871 --> 00:14:15.270
Stephen Eoannou: That are not good,
that are not positive, you know?
00:14:15.570 --> 00:14:16.250
Beth Uznis Johnson: For sure
00:14:16.745 --> 00:14:19.165
Stephen Eoannou: Imagine their
looks on their faces when he s-
00:14:19.425 --> 00:14:21.197
sits up or pushes the lid off,
00:14:21.497 --> 00:14:23.730
Kristi Leonard: so one thing
that we haven't explored, we
00:14:24.030 --> 00:14:24.140
Stephen Eoannou: Mm-hmm.
00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:28.030
Kristi Leonard: really added
in the supernatural possibility
00:14:28.330 --> 00:14:28.765
Stephen Eoannou: Right.
00:14:28.865 --> 00:14:31.555
And I think that, goes back to
the, fundamental question about,
00:14:31.595 --> 00:14:34.875
main characters, is what does
that character want, right?
00:14:34.925 --> 00:14:38.075
So why did, why did this
character come back?
00:14:38.105 --> 00:14:40.805
What, what, what unfinished
business does he have?
00:14:40.845 --> 00:14:42.742
Or, does he think he have?
00:14:42.772 --> 00:14:46.512
Or, did someone call him back,
if we're gonna go kind of the,
00:14:46.842 --> 00:14:52.002
supernatural, mystic, black magic,
voodoo type of s- story, you know?
00:14:52.242 --> 00:14:53.822
Why did someone call him back?
00:14:53.912 --> 00:14:55.042
And who was that person?
00:14:55.095 --> 00:14:58.695
so that could be an interesting
direction the story could take
00:14:58.695 --> 00:15:01.565
Beth Uznis Johnson: Yeah, I love
that idea of unfinished business.
00:15:01.659 --> 00:15:01.755
It
00:15:01.959 --> 00:15:02.539
Kristi Leonard: Mm-hmm.
00:15:02.675 --> 00:15:05.235
Beth Uznis Johnson: of opens up
a whole new avenue to explore
00:15:05.560 --> 00:15:06.850
Stephen Eoannou: And what if
he didn't wanna come back?
00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:07.999
Kristi Leonard: Ooh, I like that.
00:15:08.683 --> 00:15:11.403
Stephen Eoannou: You know, we, we see
these movies, you know, like Heaven
00:15:11.403 --> 00:15:14.773
Can Wait and, you know, movies like
that when people, you know, come
00:15:14.783 --> 00:15:16.853
back, and, and they wanna come back.
00:15:16.863 --> 00:15:18.433
But what happens if he doesn't?
00:15:18.433 --> 00:15:21.203
What happens if it, it is
really nice on the other side?
00:15:21.493 --> 00:15:25.133
Um, you know, and, and y- y- you
see all the dogs you had growing
00:15:25.133 --> 00:15:28.697
up and your friends and stuff, and
your, the relatives that you liked.
00:15:30.016 --> 00:15:30.196
Kristi Leonard: Right?
00:15:30.247 --> 00:15:31.757
Stephen Eoannou: you know, what
if he didn't wanna come back?
00:15:31.757 --> 00:15:39.427
maybe, maybe he is so determined to
go back that, um, he attempts suicide,
00:15:39.437 --> 00:15:42.737
kind of like,, a man called Ove,
you know, and he fails all the time.
00:15:43.037 --> 00:15:43.587
Kristi Leonard: Oh,
00:15:43.707 --> 00:15:46.307
Stephen Eoannou: be some… You
can see, I like kinda like the dark
00:15:46.317 --> 00:15:50.148
humor, the kind of things we could
work with, with a story like that.
00:15:50.148 --> 00:15:51.618
Kristi Leonard: Oh, I love that idea
00:15:51.724 --> 00:15:55.174
Beth Uznis Johnson: it makes me think of
someone who was trying like crazy to get
00:15:55.174 --> 00:15:58.664
away from their, you know, annoying wife
00:15:58.920 --> 00:15:59.311
Stephen Eoannou: And she brings,
00:15:59.644 --> 00:16:00.244
him back.
00:16:00.404 --> 00:16:00.724
You know?
00:16:01.024 --> 00:16:02.611
Beth Uznis Johnson: then he
wakes up in the coffin to
00:16:02.611 --> 00:16:04.251
hear her talking about him at
00:16:04.344 --> 00:16:07.344
Stephen Eoannou: Oh, he wake, he wakes
up to her, her voice, you know, that,
00:16:07.474 --> 00:16:11.324
that Edith Bunker grating voice, and
he goes, "What's going on? I was just
00:16:11.324 --> 00:16:14.374
with Uncle Harry shooting craps in
heaven, and now I'm back with her."
00:16:14.787 --> 00:16:15.828
Beth Uznis Johnson: Yea, what did I do?
00:16:16.016 --> 00:16:17.986
Kristi Leonard: What if his
first love was in heaven?
00:16:18.197 --> 00:16:20.157
Stephen Eoannou: Oh, there you go.
00:16:20.457 --> 00:16:21.267
Kristi Leonard: loves.
00:16:21.567 --> 00:16:22.507
Stephen Eoannou: I like that.
00:16:23.057 --> 00:16:23.457
Yeah
00:16:23.501 --> 00:16:27.221
Beth Uznis Johnson: Yeah, reunited and
then he wakes up and there she is again.
00:16:27.721 --> 00:16:28.741
There's the wife.
00:16:30.497 --> 00:16:31.767
Stephen Eoannou: With her, pet alligator.
00:16:32.041 --> 00:16:33.371
Beth Uznis Johnson: I
love where this is going.
00:16:33.555 --> 00:16:37.125
okay, so let's go back to the idea of
character that you mentioned in the
00:16:37.125 --> 00:16:40.265
beginning, Steve, because that's kind
of where you start with your stories.
00:16:40.298 --> 00:16:44.178
what kinds of things do you think about
in terms of character development?
00:16:44.188 --> 00:16:48.865
Like, what do we want to maybe
identify about this guy and
00:16:48.865 --> 00:16:50.625
who he was before he passed?
00:16:50.778 --> 00:16:52.548
Stephen Eoannou: I'm just trying
to think about the things that I've
00:16:52.548 --> 00:16:54.678
written and how I've started them.
00:16:55.026 --> 00:16:57.786
I usually start them in action.
00:16:57.845 --> 00:17:03.061
instead of saying like, Al Nussbaum
was a bank robber, Rook opens up with
00:17:03.061 --> 00:17:05.721
him outside a bank he's about to rob.
00:17:05.757 --> 00:17:06.197
Kristi Leonard: Awesome.
00:17:06.247 --> 00:17:08.613
Stephen Eoannou: So I think I would
start with, what does this person
00:17:08.623 --> 00:17:13.013
do, and then I would begin by showing
them in the act of doing whatever
00:17:13.089 --> 00:17:14.925
he was in his, his former life.
00:17:14.925 --> 00:17:15.545
What does he want?
00:17:15.855 --> 00:17:18.615
And then the other rule is that
main characters have to grow and
00:17:18.615 --> 00:17:20.125
change over the course of the novel.
00:17:20.125 --> 00:17:20.765
what's his goal?
00:17:20.765 --> 00:17:21.245
What does he want?
00:17:21.265 --> 00:17:23.625
He wants to get back to
heaven and his first love.
00:17:23.775 --> 00:17:25.735
and what's preventing him?
00:17:25.755 --> 00:17:27.745
That's where the tension,
the conflict comes from.
00:17:28.025 --> 00:17:30.872
And it could be his, his wife
here on Earth that won't let
00:17:30.872 --> 00:17:32.442
him go for whatever reason.
00:17:32.452 --> 00:17:35.792
Maybe she's, just wants to make
him miserable for a few more years.
00:17:35.792 --> 00:17:36.102
I don't know.
00:17:36.832 --> 00:17:38.932
Beth Uznis Johnson: it's funny when
you mention the first action of that
00:17:38.932 --> 00:17:43.948
character, I immediately pictured the man
lying in the coffin and jolting upright
00:17:43.988 --> 00:17:45.678
and hitting his head on the coffin,
00:17:45.974 --> 00:17:46.514
Stephen Eoannou: Oh, there you go.
00:17:46.564 --> 00:17:46.804
Yeah
00:17:46.828 --> 00:17:50.028
Beth Uznis Johnson: which would really,
really, alarm the people at the wake.
00:17:50.038 --> 00:17:52.658
So that could be an interesting opening.
00:17:53.148 --> 00:17:53.808
Stephen Eoannou: Yeah.
00:17:53.878 --> 00:17:54.588
That, that'd be good.
00:17:54.588 --> 00:17:55.188
That'd be funny.
00:17:55.235 --> 00:17:57.525
If we were gonna write this,
I, I really see it as kind of
00:17:57.525 --> 00:17:59.569
a, a dark black comic novel
00:17:59.869 --> 00:18:00.929
Kristi Leonard: Absolutely.
00:18:01.009 --> 00:18:02.069
100%.
00:18:02.202 --> 00:18:02.562
Stephen Eoannou: Yeah
00:18:02.614 --> 00:18:04.974
Beth Uznis Johnson: With a man
waking up in his wake, wouldn't it
00:18:04.984 --> 00:18:08.823
be interesting to have a conversation
start between him and someone on
00:18:08.823 --> 00:18:12.667
the other side of the coffin who's
speaking at the wake, perhaps his wife?
00:18:12.667 --> 00:18:13.957
Stephen Eoannou: Oh, that'd be fun too.
00:18:14.167 --> 00:18:17.107
But I also love, sensory
details in my work.
00:18:17.447 --> 00:18:22.547
So if you walk into that funeral
parlor, I want you to see and smell
00:18:22.837 --> 00:18:25.767
and hear what that funeral parlor says.
00:18:26.117 --> 00:18:29.107
So if this guy is in, lying there
in the coffin, and he's just
00:18:29.107 --> 00:18:32.724
coming back, um, yeah, maybe
he's hearing the conversations.
00:18:32.724 --> 00:18:36.237
Maybe he's smelling the
flowers that are around him.
00:18:36.300 --> 00:18:40.219
maybe it's too warm, 'cause it always
seems like it's always warm and as
00:18:40.251 --> 00:18:43.779
he becomes more and more conscious,
he becomes more and more aware of
00:18:43.789 --> 00:18:47.949
these sensory details, and, un- until
he starts having a conversation with
00:18:47.949 --> 00:18:49.452
the guy who's giving the eulogy.
00:18:49.452 --> 00:18:50.642
And wouldn't that be funny?
00:18:50.652 --> 00:18:54.202
Like, "Well, that's wrong. Um, no,
I didn't say that. You said that."
00:18:54.313 --> 00:18:54.633
Kristi Leonard: Oh my
00:18:54.828 --> 00:18:55.743
gosh that's awesome,
00:18:55.743 --> 00:18:56.989
Stephen Eoannou: maybe he's
not even saying it aloud.
00:18:57.029 --> 00:19:00.769
Maybe he's just thinking it as he's
coming back into this world, and
00:19:00.769 --> 00:19:04.289
then he sits up and hits his head
or throws off the lid and, and,
00:19:04.289 --> 00:19:06.629
um, you know, all hell breaks loose
00:19:06.862 --> 00:19:10.772
Beth Uznis Johnson: I know I had a
picture of him laying in the coffin
00:19:10.782 --> 00:19:15.072
listening and just really liking
listening, to people, talking about
00:19:15.072 --> 00:19:18.162
him, the nice music and the hymns.
00:19:18.172 --> 00:19:18.602
It's very
00:19:18.913 --> 00:19:19.283
Stephen Eoannou: Sure.
00:19:19.492 --> 00:19:21.242
Beth Uznis Johnson: he doesn't
wanna make himself known yet.
00:19:21.562 --> 00:19:21.882
I think
00:19:22.053 --> 00:19:22.443
Stephen Eoannou: Yeah
00:19:23.022 --> 00:19:24.232
Beth Uznis Johnson: in a story like this,
00:19:24.505 --> 00:19:26.558
Stephen Eoannou: maybe he doesn't
even know what's going on, right?
00:19:26.595 --> 00:19:28.695
What happened to heaven and my first love?
00:19:28.745 --> 00:19:31.495
Then think of what's gonna
happen afterwards, right?
00:19:31.695 --> 00:19:33.555
The church is gonna get involved.
00:19:33.555 --> 00:19:34.938
Is this a miracle or not?
00:19:35.142 --> 00:19:39.092
The newspapers, you know, would want, uh,
he'd be like a, a celebrity, you know?
00:19:39.092 --> 00:19:41.595
And, the title of the book will
be "The Lazarus Man" or something,
00:19:42.215 --> 00:19:42.755
Beth Uznis Johnson: Right.
00:19:42.775 --> 00:19:44.905
- Stephen Eoannou: Unfortunate
Resurrection." Uh, maybe
00:19:44.905 --> 00:19:45.855
that's a good title.
00:19:46.343 --> 00:19:47.443
Kristi Leonard: Oh, that's even better.
00:19:48.237 --> 00:19:49.238
Beth Uznis Johnson: I
would read that book.
00:19:49.381 --> 00:19:51.231
Stephen Eoannou: I don't have
a lot of quirks about writing.
00:19:51.231 --> 00:19:56.931
I don't, like, have to have special music
playing or incense burning or wear my
00:19:56.931 --> 00:20:02.598
special hat but the one quirky thing I do
is everything I write has to have a title.
00:20:02.598 --> 00:20:06.498
It can't be like the bank robber
novel or work in progress novel.
00:20:06.698 --> 00:20:08.648
It has to have a title.
00:20:08.778 --> 00:20:11.758
And that may not be the final
title at the end, a- and the
00:20:11.758 --> 00:20:13.418
publisher may change that anyways.
00:20:13.900 --> 00:20:14.510
Kristi Leonard: Totally
00:20:14.810 --> 00:20:18.191
Stephen Eoannou: I have to have title
on all my stuff from the beginning.
00:20:18.431 --> 00:20:21.521
But I kinda like what, what, there was,
was it "An Unfortunate Resurrection"?
00:20:21.521 --> 00:20:22.161
Is that what I said?
00:20:22.164 --> 00:20:22.534
Beth Uznis Johnson: Yeah,
00:20:22.711 --> 00:20:25.088
Stephen Eoannou: that, that might
be a, a good working title to begin
00:20:25.088 --> 00:20:26.518
with and see where the story takes us.
00:20:26.518 --> 00:20:28.848
Beth Uznis Johnson: You know, you
actually got me thinking when you were
00:20:28.848 --> 00:20:30.988
talking about, waking up in the coffin.
00:20:30.988 --> 00:20:34.708
I started to think about the timeframe
of the novel because, he could wake up
00:20:34.708 --> 00:20:37.928
in the coffin, he could burst out, and
there could be a whole story after that.
00:20:38.401 --> 00:20:42.811
another way to approach that story
could also be he wakes up in the
00:20:42.811 --> 00:20:48.908
coffin, and all of that interiority
with him thinking, um, "Why am I here?
00:20:48.908 --> 00:20:53.868
I was just up in heaven with my love."
maybe the whole story is him figuring out
00:20:54.128 --> 00:21:00.308
what has happened and how he's back in his
body, and by the end, realizes he needs to
00:21:00.308 --> 00:21:02.128
make a move, and then he's going to do it.
00:21:02.408 --> 00:21:06.438
You know, it's interesting to
me how you can always start at a
00:21:06.438 --> 00:21:09.818
certain point and then take it any
direction you want, whether you're
00:21:09.819 --> 00:21:10.738
stretching out time
00:21:10.938 --> 00:21:12.188
or compressing time
00:21:12.232 --> 00:21:12.622
Stephen Eoannou: Yeah.
00:21:12.682 --> 00:21:15.882
That'd be hard though, because
I think about my own writing, I
00:21:15.882 --> 00:21:17.912
always get people stuck in cars.
00:21:18.162 --> 00:21:18.592
You know?
00:21:18.622 --> 00:21:20.272
They're always in cars.
00:21:20.272 --> 00:21:24.222
There's not a lot of movement in cars, he
stopped, he started, he braked, he turned.
00:21:24.462 --> 00:21:26.532
You know, it's like, "Oh, I gotta
get him out of the cars," I would
00:21:26.532 --> 00:21:30.102
think that you may need more literary
writer chops than I have to write that
00:21:30.322 --> 00:21:33.256
interior, monologue in the coffin story.
00:21:33.496 --> 00:21:36.419
Um, me, I'd wanna get him out
of the coffin and, see what
00:21:36.419 --> 00:21:40.409
would be the ramifications of
this unfortunate resurrection.
00:21:40.445 --> 00:21:40.865
Beth Uznis Johnson:
Yeah, I like interiority.
00:21:42.548 --> 00:21:46.508
In fact, I was just at a reading for
a Chicago author who has a book coming
00:21:46.508 --> 00:21:48.708
out this summer, um, Kathleen Rooney.
00:21:48.708 --> 00:21:54.058
The book is called Man Overboard, and
the entire novel is set right after
00:21:54.105 --> 00:21:58.568
the man falls off of a cruise ship,
he kind of is struggling to get up to
00:21:58.568 --> 00:22:00.018
the top of the surface of the water.
00:22:00.018 --> 00:22:03.118
He comes up, and he sees the
ship going away in the night.
00:22:03.232 --> 00:22:06.552
And then I understand the entire
novel is set in the water,
00:22:06.628 --> 00:22:07.207
Kristi Leonard: Wow,
00:22:07.312 --> 00:22:09.322
Beth Uznis Johnson: and I, and
we don't know whether he survives
00:22:09.342 --> 00:22:12.252
or whether he doesn't survive or
where, where it goes from there.
00:22:12.252 --> 00:22:15.482
But I can't wait to take a look at that
novel and see how she pulled it off
00:22:15.725 --> 00:22:19.385
Stephen Eoannou: There's a book that, by
Michael Shera that came out ' 80s maybe,
00:22:19.825 --> 00:22:23.725
1980s maybe, called "For the Thrill of
the Game." I think that's the title.
00:22:23.915 --> 00:22:26.545
And they made it into a movie
with, with Kevin Costner.
00:22:26.545 --> 00:22:32.295
and it all takes place, it's an aging
Major League Baseball pitcher, and he's,
00:22:32.335 --> 00:22:38.395
he's at the end of his career, and he's
in the middle of throwing a perfect game,
00:22:38.474 --> 00:22:39.654
Kristi Leonard: Oh, i remember this
00:22:39.895 --> 00:22:40.289
movie.
00:22:40.309 --> 00:22:40.555
Yeah
00:22:40.855 --> 00:22:45.445
Stephen Eoannou: And the whole story
is him reliving his life while he
00:22:45.475 --> 00:22:47.845
is pitching this, this perfect game.
00:22:48.115 --> 00:22:49.755
And it is, it's brilliant.
00:22:49.835 --> 00:22:53.105
It is a brilliant book
that I could never write.
00:22:54.533 --> 00:22:56.773
Beth Uznis Johnson: I know, but
when you think about the way our
00:22:56.783 --> 00:22:59.203
brains work, we're always thinking.
00:23:00.113 --> 00:23:06.891
so a lot to be said for the timeframe,
you know, during a baseball game.
00:23:07.191 --> 00:23:07.441
Stephen Eoannou: Sure.
00:23:07.573 --> 00:23:10.033
Beth Uznis Johnson: If you actually
stop to really think about the thought
00:23:10.033 --> 00:23:12.173
process, and I love that about writing.
00:23:13.373 --> 00:23:17.933
although it's also really fun to read
and write things that are moving quickly,
00:23:18.701 --> 00:23:19.001
Stephen Eoannou: Yeah
00:23:19.013 --> 00:23:20.613
Beth Uznis Johnson: covering
a lot of time and space.
00:23:20.633 --> 00:23:21.753
But I think it's
00:23:21.805 --> 00:23:22.155
Stephen Eoannou: Yeah.
00:23:22.193 --> 00:23:23.609
Beth Uznis Johnson: have
options like that as writers
00:23:23.701 --> 00:23:24.351
Stephen Eoannou: Absolutely.
00:23:24.701 --> 00:23:25.031
Mm-hmm
00:23:25.611 --> 00:23:28.200
Kristi Leonard: Well, do you
think we could sum up our
00:23:28.221 --> 00:23:30.024
book idea What do you think?
00:23:30.797 --> 00:23:30.818
Stephen Eoannou: wanna,
00:23:30.978 --> 00:23:31.648
to take a swing at it?
00:23:34.722 --> 00:23:35.662
Beth Uznis Johnson: Why
don't you start, Steve.
00:23:35.662 --> 00:23:35.961
because I think we talked abaout
a lot of possibilities, but you
00:23:35.982 --> 00:23:37.855
can sort of choose your adventure
00:23:38.285 --> 00:23:38.875
Stephen Eoannou: Okay.
00:23:38.898 --> 00:23:42.978
working title is The Unfortunate
Resurrection, and it's about a man
00:23:42.988 --> 00:23:51.575
named Elias Potabaum who up in the
middle of his funeral, um, when he
00:23:51.575 --> 00:23:56.705
was just in heaven with his first love
and does not wanna be back on Earth
00:23:57.003 --> 00:23:58.983
Beth Uznis Johnson:
It's a wonderful premise
00:23:59.325 --> 00:24:00.955
I think that is so great.
00:24:00.985 --> 00:24:02.255
I would totally read that book.
00:24:02.255 --> 00:24:03.045
How about you, Kristi?
00:24:03.368 --> 00:24:05.448
Kristi Leonard: Oh my gosh,
absolutely I would read that book
00:24:06.454 --> 00:24:06.924
Stephen Eoannou: Yeah.
00:24:06.974 --> 00:24:09.344
We'll get Netflix, we'll
sell the secondary rights,
00:24:09.364 --> 00:24:10.464
and then we'll be golden.
00:24:11.112 --> 00:24:12.422
Kristi Leonard: Absolutely.
00:24:12.541 --> 00:24:16.222
Beth Uznis Johnson: So part of the fun
of, Plot Lab is that, you know, everyone
00:24:16.222 --> 00:24:20.112
who's listening can also think about
this in their own terms and what they
00:24:20.112 --> 00:24:22.132
might do as far as story building.
00:24:22.152 --> 00:24:25.212
the opportunities are kind of
endless, which makes this really fun
00:24:25.543 --> 00:24:29.126
Stephen Eoannou: It might be fun if,
we give them an email address and they
00:24:29.126 --> 00:24:33.266
can send in their, their ideas of the
way they would've taken this premise.
00:24:33.486 --> 00:24:36.036
That would be really interesting
to read through and to see all the
00:24:36.306 --> 00:24:40.069
different directions writers can take
with the minimal amount of detail
00:24:40.623 --> 00:24:45.023
Kristi Leonard: Well, you're in luck
because we actually have a way to do that.
00:24:45.047 --> 00:24:45.657
Stephen Eoannou: Look at that.
00:24:45.687 --> 00:24:46.397
I set you up
00:24:46.414 --> 00:24:50.510
Kristi Leonard: We have something
called the Prompt Incubator on
00:24:50.510 --> 00:24:56.540
our website, where each episode we
will have a space with all three.
00:24:56.660 --> 00:24:59.630
If you didn't like the one we
chose, you could choose one of the
00:24:59.630 --> 00:25:05.620
other two, we'll have a space where
everybody can, writer or not writer,
00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:11.740
anyone can add to what someone else
started or throw a question out to
00:25:11.820 --> 00:25:13.893
the world and have some fun together
00:25:14.012 --> 00:25:14.432
Stephen Eoannou: That sounds awesome
00:25:14.463 --> 00:25:16.793
Beth Uznis Johnson: And also a
chance to kind of build community.
00:25:16.840 --> 00:25:19.926
it's always fun to see what other
writers might do with the same prompt.
00:25:19.926 --> 00:25:22.556
It kind of shows just just
how far people could take it.
00:25:22.556 --> 00:25:22.846
Stephen Eoannou: Yeah.
00:25:22.925 --> 00:25:23.045
Beth Uznis Johnson: And
00:25:23.065 --> 00:25:23.485
who knows, maybe
00:25:23.823 --> 00:25:26.493
we'll have a whole book
someday from a PlotLab prompt
00:25:26.813 --> 00:25:27.113
Stephen Eoannou: Well, sure.
00:25:27.113 --> 00:25:29.649
I mean, if there's a horror writer
out there, 'cause when you first
00:25:29.649 --> 00:25:33.689
read the headline to me or the, the
description, I thought, man, that's
00:25:33.689 --> 00:25:35.249
like a Stephen King horror story.
00:25:35.249 --> 00:25:36.799
I would never write that.
00:25:37.075 --> 00:25:41.315
A horror writer would, and ma- would
make it way different than someone
00:25:41.315 --> 00:25:46.322
who's thinking this in terms of a,
a, a dark comedy or, a exploration
00:25:46.342 --> 00:25:48.210
of the afterlife or something,
00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:48.620
Beth Uznis Johnson: Yeah.
00:25:48.670 --> 00:25:51.916
And I love since you're a
historical fiction writer, your
00:25:51.916 --> 00:25:55.630
mind immediately went to what's
realistic and what's the timeframe.
00:25:55.833 --> 00:25:56.313
Yeah
00:25:56.362 --> 00:25:58.812
Stephen Eoannou: Um, ' cause even, when I
was writing "Yesteryear," which has a lot
00:25:58.812 --> 00:26:02.792
of magical realism and some, fantastical
elements, you always kind of want to
00:26:02.802 --> 00:26:06.572
make 'em sort of believable that it could
happen in this world that I created,
00:26:06.852 --> 00:26:08.742
that it wouldn't be too far-fetched.
00:26:08.742 --> 00:26:12.072
you know, that you're playing within the
rules that you've created for yourself.
00:26:12.352 --> 00:26:15.592
So that, that would be something
we'd have to think about too.
00:26:15.661 --> 00:26:16.851
Beth Uznis Johnson: Yep, definitely.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:17.740
Kristi Leonard: You got it
00:26:18.124 --> 00:26:18.864
Beth Uznis Johnson: world building
00:26:19.209 --> 00:26:21.749
Kristi Leonard: Well, we have
had so much fun having you play
00:26:21.749 --> 00:26:24.103
in our sandbox with us, and
00:26:24.349 --> 00:26:24.688
Stephen Eoannou: That was fun
00:26:25.239 --> 00:26:25.819
Kristi Leonard: It was.
00:26:25.819 --> 00:26:26.639
I'm so glad.
00:26:27.069 --> 00:26:31.759
We will definitely share information
about you and your books in our show notes
00:26:31.864 --> 00:26:32.134
Stephen Eoannou: Great.
00:26:32.184 --> 00:26:33.484
Thank you, and thanks for having me
00:26:33.966 --> 00:26:34.096
Beth Uznis Johnson: It was really
00:26:34.869 --> 00:26:35.979
talking with you, Steve.
00:26:35.989 --> 00:26:36.899
Thanks so much
00:26:37.029 --> 00:26:39.159
Kristi Leonard: New
episodes every two weeks.
00:26:39.325 --> 00:26:41.305
Beth Uznis Johnson: Follow
us wherever you listen.
00:26:41.465 --> 00:26:45.115
Kristi Leonard: And come experiment
with us online in the Prompt Incubator.
00:26:45.353 --> 00:26:48.127
Beth Uznis Johnson: Plot
Lab: From Spark to Story.