Romans 16:7 was Junia really an Apostle?

Both: Hello, welcome back to Offscripts for your Beckenstam. What are we doing today? Today we are continuing with our series of unsung women of the Bible and I think today's woman might be one of the most interesting we've looked at so far discussing a woman who is mentioned in just one verse. That woman today is Junior. So sit back, grab your favourite drink of choice and join us as we go through our series of unsung women of the Bible. So Junia is mentioned in just one verse and yet that verse has sparked centuries of debate about women in the church. And the big question is, was Junior actually a female apostle? now depending on your Christian background, that might sound perfectly reasonable or you might be thinking, hang on a minute, weren't all the apostles men? Well, that's exactly what we're going to try and explore today. Okay Bec, do you to set the scene for us? So before we get into Junia, we need to understand where we meet her in Scripture and we do this every week. So we're in the book of Romans, which again is in the New Testament, which is a letter by the Apostle Paul and is writing to the Christians in Rome, a community that included both Jewish and Gentile believers. Romans is one of the most important theological letters in the New Testament. Paul writes about sin, salvation, grace, faith, and what it means to live as a Christian. But Junia doesn't appear during one of those big theological arguments. No, she's mentioned right at the end of the letter in chapter 16, where Paul is greeting various people. Which is a section of scripture that I think many of us probably just skim over. It's a list of names and when we read the Bible and sometimes I see a long unfamiliar list of names and just move past it. But behind every name is a real person and that's what this series is about really, isn't it? Making sure that they are spoken about. Them real people, that we may just brush past even though they're mentioned within scripture, within God's word. why does Paul include so many personal greetings? So I suppose he was preaching to a church, it was quite a large church and he'd come into contact with lots of these different people across different lives and ministries. So when he's preaching to this church in Romans, it's quite a large church and he would have had a lot of histories with lots of different people. all them different people, think scripture is preserving their names for a reason. They want to know, it gives us a little bit about each person he's greeting to. Some of them he just listening, but some of them he adds an extra little personal touch to it. And that's what we see with Junior and Andronicus. what I don't want to just brush past is that that the name is just there for namesake. Because a lot of people will say, okay, he's mentioned it, it's one, it's a couple of lines, it's one small little verse, why is it so important? But actually that question is what has elicited this discussion for centuries. And it's like in Matthew, at the start of Matthew. They list the whole of Jesus' genealogy. How many people just see that genealogy and just go... I mean, I think it's quite difficult as dyslexics sometimes to get through it. And you'll have seen us laugh and joke about pronunciations. But that doesn't mean just because it's hard you shouldn't do it. I try to at least read over those names, even if you do find it difficult. And actually, what you found when actually reading them names is when the links to Jesus' genealogy really hit. Sam, what do we actually know about Junior? You love his funny or big hitters, isn't it? You like this Yeah, I do. We find here in Romans 16, 7, where Paul greets Andronicus and Junior. He gives us some really interesting information about them. First, he identifies them as his fellow Jew or relatives, depending on how your Bible is translating it. He also tells her that they've been imprisoned, that they were in Christ before him, they had a remarkable reputation in relation to the apostles. So let's unpack that a little bit. The first thing I find interesting is that Junior was a Christian before Paul, and some describe her as an auntie, which I think is dead endearing, which means she'd become a follower of Jesus before Paul's conversion. And then there's the imprisonment. We know she had suffered for her faith. Although scripture doesn't tell us when, where or why she was imprisoned, which is important. be careful not to invent a life story for someone when scripture hasn't given us one. Absolutely. What Paul does say is already quite remarkable in its own sense, isn't it? Mm-hm. What does being a Christian before Paul suggest about Juniors place in the early Christian movement? Well, it suggests that it's possible that Junia walked with Jesus, but Jesus was still alive, that she may have been present at the resurrection and the ascension. There's no discussion that she's not like on fire for the Lord, you know, I think it's really clear that she is otherwise. She wouldn't be going to prison for something that she believes. It is not worth it, you know? she was a Christian before Paul, Paul, although was a Christian a little bit later, he was there at the martyrdom of Stephen. Yes. And he was on the road to Damascus. he didn't, he became apostle not too long after Jesus's death and resurrection in the... the creation of the Christian faith. So it would suggest that if Junion was a Christian before him that was most likely she was a... Most likely that she knew Jesus. Or knew people who knew him quite closely. was entirely reasonable. So Bec, what does Juniors Imprisonment tell us about the personal cost of following Jesus? So, back in the days where this took place, going to prison, women were rarely sent to prison, know, for dominion tasks or whatever. They were sent to the husbands or to the fathers for them to put punishments. So the fact that she actually went to prison says that it was pretty significant. And the fact that it's recorded as so would have been a massive sacrifice. And back in the days was no women's prisons because women weren't really sent there, you can imagine that the risk that she undertook as a woman, you know, there was sexual persecution. It was just not a great place to be. what's really inspiring is that she went to prison, which is a massive personal cost for her. She would have definitely suffered. But then when she came back out, she continued to breathe. like, wow, that blows my mind that she would have suffered to such a length and then still come back out. And for me that suggests that she probably was an apostle, that she had such a calling that even the law couldn't break her. She'd come back out and she probably was, you she took that with her. Yeah, I think scripture doesn't tell us why she went to prison, but we can deduce from, we can make an assumption, can't we, by deduction. And also there's records about why men went to prison. So there are records where people went to prison anyway and there was... And there's very little records about women. But what we do know is that if Paul is commending her time in prison, can logically deduce that she didn't go to prison for murdering someone or theft or any of these other kinds of things. And the only thing it leaves out is inciting riot. And there was one other. Do you remember what it was? No, I think the insight and riot was if she's preaching the gospel, which is more than likely, and you didn't have a permit or a license or whatever you needed to do, you can say that the Jewish rulers at this point had already helped Jesus be crucified, which was in the same lifetime, that still preaching the gospel carried quite a strict penalty. Well, also in scripture, does specifically say about when there were... mobs coming for Paul, where Paul's other supporters were saying to him, we best... See you Yeah, we best get off because we could go to prison for this because it was... Even though they didn't initially or intend to start a riot, these people were rioting against them. And they could get in, they could be persecuted as the cause of that riot. Yes, inciting violence is what we call it today. Yeah, it's possible that Junior and Andronicus were sent to prison because of their teachings. They're Jews, remember? So it would be their teachings around Jesus that really upset the Jewish people of the day. That would have caused trouble. It would have caused lots of trouble. Now, here's where the story gets particularly interesting because for a period in the modern biblical interpretation, Junia was sometimes presented as a man. So when did that happen? it So that was wild. So was around the 1300s. And then it lasted right up until quite recently, which I was shocked. 1980s, yeah. Yeah. So she was called a man, Junus, which might seem strange to say that Junia is known to be a female. female name. So why did that happen Sam? So we don't really know why it happened and we can't assume that to know why it happened. However, we can speculate that during the medieval church the representation of a female apostle didn't fit their narrative so they sought to change that within scripture. So the earliest Greek manuscripts didn't have the accent marks that later readers used to indicate how particular names should be understood. So some interpreters argued that the name could be, in a masculine form. But the historical evidence for Junior as a woman's name is much stronger than the evidence for the man's name. is historical manuscripts that use the name Junior but not use the name Junius. In fact, it's not seen at all. What's really interesting is that the early Christian writers, including John Christossum, understood Junior to be a woman. Christossum even praised her in connection with the title of apostle, and he was around in the fourth century. Yeah. So we're not talking about an idea that was only invented in recent decades. Recognition of junior as a woman goes back to the early, early church. So how much can cultural assumptions influence our interpretations of scripture? So, I mean, it's no secret that we lived in a male-dominated society. for hundreds of years and that women didn't have the right to vote and meant when we're seeing as a be all and end all of the family unit. So it wouldn't suit their narrative for a woman to be an apostle because it would underhand everything that they believed. And Jesus, mean, it does blow my mind a little bit. How could you follow Jesus and know that his worldview was so upside down from the Jewish culture and not see that he presented women in a certain way? You know, it's not for me to judge how they come to them. But I understand how they got to the point of saying that she couldn't be an apostle because how could they say that women couldn't be leaders in the church when you've got Junia who is an apostle? And I think, you know, judges, Deborah's never ever been like assumed to be a man, but that's always written off as, that was a one-off. She was an exception. Yeah. So I do think it's surrounded around this word apostle and the thought of her being an apostle because the narrative was that apostle was somebody that... wasn't just a leader or a teacher, and we're gonna go deeper into this in a sec, but was somebody of highest authority. An adult authority over teaching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Think of it today as like a professor in university, as high as you could get. yeah, you couldn't get any, but what I would say is that we can't take away from how much Paul on his hair and his husband, because let's not forget Andronicus. was thought to be during this time, they were like maternal, they thought them to be brothers. Two brothers. Yeah, two brothers and actually in fact they were man and wife. went out similar to Priscilla and Aquila. They went out together to preach the word and spread the gospel. we've sort of touched on it a little bit, but Bec, what actually is an apostle? when I hear the word apostle, I immediately think of Jesus as twelve disciples. I that's like, I think I've always struggled with disciple and apostle. Which isn't wrong, because in the New Testament, the word is also used more broadly. The Greek word apostolus carries the idea of someone who is sent or commissioned. And the 12 had a particular role in Jesus' chosen apostles. And Paul also describes himself as an apostle. But what's a really interesting fact about this? Paul? So Paul, it's widely accepted amongst theologians that Paul was the only apostle that didn't meet Jesus face to face. Although we met him on the road to Damascus, he didn't meet him in his earthly life. But other people are also called an apostle in the New Testament, aren't they, Sam? They are, yeah. For example, Barnabas is described as an apostle alongside Paul in Acts 14, 14. So The question isn't necessarily whether Junia was one of the Twelve because Scripture doesn't say that. The question is whether Paul was recognising her as an apostle in the wide, early Christian sense. So what distinguishes the Twelve then from the rest of the Apostles? I think the Twelve were Jesus chosen. They were the inner circle, if you like. They were chosen apostles, weren't they? Because Apostle that replaced... Judas. Judas is very... Matthews? Matthews, I it was. He's an apostle. But he actually followed Jesus in his ministry. He just wasn't one of the inner twelve. And we know from scripture when Jesus sent out, was it 72? Yes, in couples. In couples. can't remember. I will put up the exact number. I can't remember at the top of my head. But Jesus sent them out in pairs. And so that tells us that there were more apostles and all of them were... We're granted the gifts of healing and driving our demons. So we know that there was more apostles, but there was something special about the chosen 12 disciples of Jesus. So the really big debate here was, was Junior an apostle? So let's return back to Romans 16, 7, because this is the verse that causes all the debate. Depending on which Bible translation you read, Paul describes Andronicus and Junior in slightly different ways. Some translations describe them as outstanding amongst the apostles, Well, the first interpretation suggests Junya herself was an apostle, Whereas the second suggestion she was highly respected by the apostles, but that doesn't necessarily identify her as one. So what does the original Greek actually mean, Well, that's exactly what the scholars have been debating. Both interpretations have been defended, although many scholars favor the understanding that Junior and Adronikos were included amongst the apostles. And I think this is where we have to be honest with our listeners, isn't it? There are serious biblical scholars who disagree about the meaning. But what neither interpretation changes is that Paul speaks very highly of this woman. She's an early Christian, someone who has suffered imprisonment, and she's held in high regard. And that's significant regardless of which translation you accept or you read daily. Yeah, and I totally agree. So, what reading seems more natural as you first encountered the verse? I mean, and again, this is probably from my background. I do feel like she is a woman, which is established, and I do think she was an apostle. And I think Paul speaks so highly of her because she was so valued to him. And he doesn't hold her husband up higher than her. He treats them equally. And I just think you've got to take from the text what Paul actually says. And for me, there's nowhere in the text where he says she isn't an apostle and he describes her among the apostles, which for me, I wouldn't say you're among my friends group, but you're not my friend. For me, that doesn't make any sense. And that might be the English interpretation. But I can see, he doesn't actually say that she's an apostle, but he doesn't say she isn't either. I Yeah, but one thing that really edges me towards the fact that... the other interpretation of that, is an apostle, is that if she wasn't an apostle, why put all the effort to change the narrative within the medieval church if she was an apostle? We'd have to revisit the motive around writing her out or changing her gender. Why were these lines so hard? What was the purpose if it wasn't even referring to her as an apostle? You just leave it in the way she was? Yeah, exactly. So what did the early church think about Junior, There's something really interesting about how the early church understood Junior. John Chrysanthemum was one of the influential theologians of the fourth century, clearly recognized Junior as a woman, and he expressed admiration that she was one considered worthy of being called an apostle. Which I think is remarkable because it shows this understanding existed long before modern debates about women's ordination. And then over time some interpretations began favouring the masculine name of Junius. Well this raises a difficult question. Were interpreters simply trying to understand a generally difficult passage or were assumptions about women influencing how they read it? It could involve both and we've touched on that already we should be careful because we can't be assuming someone's motives. Absolutely and we should also be willing to examine whether art traditions have influenced the way we understand scripture. So let's put what we're spoken about today into today's practice. What does Junia teach us today? So I'm taking away all of the base for a moment and what we can actually learn from Junia. I think one of the most powerful things about her story is that she doesn't need pages and pages of scripture for us to recognise her faithfulness. We know so little about her personal life, but what we know was she was a follower of Jesus, that she endured imprisonment and that... Paul recognised her? He not only recognised her, he honoured her. He looked up to her in the way that he describes her. think that's particularly encouraging for ordinary Christians who may never have a platform or official positions because God sees the work that we do, even if no one else remembers our names. And Junya also reminds us to be careful about overlooking people in Scripture. especially when the Bible itself takes the time to recognise them. So are we willing to let scripture challenge our assumptions? I think we always are. Yeah. I think that's probably one of our strengths. Absolutely. And how do we recognise people who have faithfully saved God without seeking recognition, glory? And I think Junya does this perfectly. Yeah, and what can Junya teach us about perseverance under persecution? she's so strong. the things that she must have endured. So who was Junior? We know that she was a faithful early Christian who suffered for her faith and was highly regarded. And whether you believe she was an apostle herself respected by apostles, it's clear she was a remarkable woman. And I think the challenge for us is to continue reading scriptures with humility. being willing to question our assumptions, listen to other Christians, and most importantly, seek God's truth. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Do you believe Junior was an apostle? And remember, we welcome disagreements, but always with respect and kindness. So if you are gonna put your different opinions in the comments, please be kind. Yeah, if you're gonna duke it out, do so respectfully. Thank you for joining us for another episode of After Scripter with Bec and Sam. See you next time. See you next time. Bye. Bye.