THE DANDY WARHOLS launch Miranda Lee Richards

Rain Phoenix [00:00:03]: Hello and welcome to Launch Left Podcast. I'm your host, Rain Phoenix. Today's very special guest is Courtney Taylor. Taylor of the Dandy Warhols. Don't forget, rate and subscribe. Follow us on all socials at launch Left. Welcome to the show, Courtney Taylor Taylor.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:00:19]: Thanks.

Rain Phoenix [00:00:21]: It's really nice to have you here. We Both survived the 90s.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:00:25]: Oh, yeah.

Rain Phoenix [00:00:26]: Yeah. And I have a confession to make because I. It might not be you. So if you don't remember this, I still feel like I want to apologize that I have a memory of making fun of a very puffy coat. You were wearing like a furry white coat. Did you have.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:00:46]: Yes, I had a really big, furry white, long double breasted coat. Yeah.

Rain Phoenix [00:00:54]: My apologies.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:00:55]: Yeah, it was. I think it was like an authentic 30s sort of thing.

Rain Phoenix [00:01:01]: I wanted to get that off my chest. So thank you for hearing me.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:01:05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. I can't believe you remember that coat.

Rain Phoenix [00:01:09]: Yeah, well, I remember it as like a. Oh, why did I make. I mean, I think I was just being like sarcastic in the moment, but I remember it was outside in New York coldness and I was like, what's up with that coat? I said I made some comment. It wasn't mean spirited, but nothing specifically about the coat.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:01:26]: Just about the coat.

Rain Phoenix [00:01:27]: Just kind of, yeah, what's up with that coat? And warm. I've held on to that. Like, I really don't remember very much about the 90s, to be honest, but somehow that memory stuck out and I was like, you know what? I'm going to issue an apology in case that's public apology in case that stuck in your mind too. Is like, man, I met you in the 90s and you made fun of my coat.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:01:46]: So I don't remember that.

Rain Phoenix [00:01:47]: Good. Okay, good, we can go. We. We can move on then. And I feel absolved.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:01:53]: You can move on.

Rain Phoenix [00:01:53]: Exactly. I can finally move on from that. Co, I'm glad that you're here. You're celebrating 35 years with the Danny Warhols. Just the 30. 30.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:02:04]: Well, what's the difference at this point?

Rain Phoenix [00:02:09]: It's 30 years. I gave you an extra five. I'm still blown away that you kept a band that long.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:02:16]: That's the hard part. Right, because you're all egomaniacs at this point and probably have been for a long time. So. Yeah, that's the hardest part.

Rain Phoenix [00:02:29]: Yeah, 30 years is a really long time.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:02:32]: I've been alive a long time. I'm so fucking old.

Rain Phoenix [00:02:37]: I wouldn't say that.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:02:39]: You're still rocking 57 years. Wow.

Rain Phoenix [00:02:44]: I didn't know you were 57.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:02:45]: Yeah, and I have an aunt and uncle that are 92 and 94.

Rain Phoenix [00:02:50]: All right.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:02:51]: And I'm just going, it's taken forever, isn't it? Yeah.

Rain Phoenix [00:02:58]: That's cool, though. So as. And it's been the same lineup the whole time, is that right?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:03:02]: Yeah, a couple. We had a. We had a different drummer for a couple years at the beginning, and he was great. But, yeah, he just, you know, he quit after we put out our first record, and he still fills in and stuff.

Rain Phoenix [00:03:21]: Oh, really? So you're still friends?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:03:23]: Yeah, he put a band together where he was the keyboardist and the singer, and they were, you know, very cool, but he had a hard time keeping a band together, and then he didn't resent me as much for being a bit of a dictator in the beginning, you know, now I don't make the decisions. It's pretty great.

Rain Phoenix [00:03:42]: So you, over these 30 years, have changed your approach to being in a band, would you say?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:03:52]: Well, it has to change. You know, it just does change. It's a lot better. I'm a little brother. I'm a younger brother, so I really do prefer to not be the decision maker. All I care about is the music. I just have to be able to feel it. Everybody in the band has to be able to feel it when they hit play, you know, the recorded versions. So you really have to take everybody's opinion dead serious. You can't dismiss anybody's. This is bugging me about this. That high hat is too loud, and it's weird being over there that far on the left. Anything you have to go.

Rain Phoenix [00:04:35]: Okay, well, would you agree? Because I certainly have the opinion that artists are incredibly sensitive, and it sounds like you are aware of that. And so, like, to hear everyone out. Whether you agree or not is so important because it can mean the difference between a band breaking up or not, which shows your longevity.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:04:55]: Based on that, you build up a few of those in a row and you start to notice somebody's acting different every time you're together? Exactly, yeah. Withdrawing socially in preparation for the big withdrawal that they're playing around within their heads.

Rain Phoenix [00:05:14]: Yeah. Would you say they're kind of like a family now after 30 years that the band has become like family? Like, there's a tension.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:05:22]: There's a difference in that. We know this is a decision. Family is not a decision. It's just what you got, you know? So it's. It's. It's a lot more of a clean, truly holy experience to Force yourself through it sometimes. And then sometimes you're just so. You're aware of how blessed you are to have these people still, you know, like everything. You go back and forth between appreciating it and not appreciating it. You know, it's hard. It's hard to be appreciative all the time of anything.

Rain Phoenix [00:06:00]: Yeah. Well, would you say that you've used music and being in a band almost like a. A spiritual practice at times?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:06:11]: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Definitely. Well, that's what music is. Right. It's when you, when you're young and you start making music, being able to record and make music alone by yourself, with multiple instruments and you start doing that, it becomes your therapy.

Rain Phoenix [00:06:29]: Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:06:29]: And that's what, that's what you should. You know, that's the difference between an artist and an entertainer is that with the artist it really is just this self kind of salvation act. And entertainers, I'm not really. What is it? It's entertainment. It's just. It's made for. With the hopes that other people will like it.

Rain Phoenix [00:06:56]: Right.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:06:57]: That's the difference. And yeah, artists can't really do what you do with that in mind. You cannot make art with other people's opinions being considered. You can't really do that and make art. You can't make entertainment without it, though.

Rain Phoenix [00:07:17]: Wow.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:07:17]: That is the linchpin of what it is. Yeah. So it's to circle all the way back to the band thing. You know, it's not easy. So I guess once you're good at it together, you keep doing it, you know, because it's so satisfying.

Rain Phoenix [00:07:35]: Yeah. That's cool. And you all share that opinion of. Of, you know, the quest for what you believe in and what you want to make versus the what are people going to like or does it ebb and flow?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:07:51]: Oh, yeah. You. We. You never know what someone else is going to like. It's impossible. Your closest friend, you know, you're. You're mom, you know, you can't know. So. And that's not the point. The point is to make something that you love so much. You can't imagine anyone else wouldn't love it.

Rain Phoenix [00:08:09]: Right. Yeah. Profound moments with Courtney Taylor. Taylor, that was awesome. Thank you for sharing that. I totally, wholeheartedly agree with that. And I think you see that every day in art and music. The attempts made for others to like it and how that falls flat. Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:08:32]: It's not art.

Rain Phoenix [00:08:34]: And if it does work, it. It doesn't feel. It doesn't seem like it's Craft.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:08:37]: It's craft.

Rain Phoenix [00:08:38]: Oh, there you go.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:08:39]: Entertainment is not. It is very respectable and amazing, particularly when it works, you know, Everything is great when it works.

Rain Phoenix [00:08:47]: Right? True.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:08:49]: The Republican Party is great when it works. Everything can be. It's. You know.

Rain Phoenix [00:08:54]: Yeah. How did music first find you?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:08:57]: I smoke.

Rain Phoenix [00:08:59]: Did you smoke some.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:09:00]: Glad I hit that pipe before I got in the Uber to come over here.

Rain Phoenix [00:09:03]: Me too.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:09:04]: God, I'm having, like, creative epiphanies and shit right now.

Rain Phoenix [00:09:08]: Waxing poetic. We love it.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:09:10]: And I'm freezing. It's freezing in here.

Rain Phoenix [00:09:12]: I know. I want to give you my jacket. But then I'd be shivering. What do I do?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:09:16]: It's better to me. I was made to suffer.

Rain Phoenix [00:09:18]: We need, like, a vegan mink stole for you. Some, like, little fur thing. You can put your.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:09:23]: A little warm one.

Rain Phoenix [00:09:24]: Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:09:24]: Electric.

Rain Phoenix [00:09:25]: A warm one. There you go. My question to you now is how music first found you, even before the band as a child. Like, what first inspired you?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:09:34]: It happened in a. Like, whoa. I was four and. And music was always on in my house. Radio was always on or records, but they were like, you know, Barbra Streisand or Sea Shanties or the Kingston Trio or, you know, it was just music and people, like. It seemed nice to me, you know, and then there were a lot of people over at the house, and I'm looking up at the bottoms of hands and cups and things. So maybe church people. You know, I grew up going to church and the stereo, and something happened, and that stereo, something came out of it that I had never felt before. And I was like, wow, I'm in the middle of the room and I'm looking up, and nobody is flinching. There's still. I was just, what? What don't you understand this? And I probably got in a little bit of, shh, shh. You know, and so I just went and put my head next to the speaker. And later I finally heard it again. Sometime. I don't know when, but I. It was Killer Queen. And I was just going, what? And then. Yeah. So I would. I would sit late at night and listen to the radio very quietly in my room in the dark before going to sleep, trying to find it. I knew it was on there somewhere. And then I heard Radar Love. And then I was like, something is going on. This must be rock. You know, babysitters would say that, and they would say that. Say the word cool. And I thought, this is. This is what it feels like to be cool.

Rain Phoenix [00:11:23]: Wow, that's.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:11:24]: Those two songs must be Rock. Rock is what it feels like to be cool. Yeah.

Rain Phoenix [00:11:30]: And then when you were a teenager, maybe you.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:11:32]: A whole lot of love.

Rain Phoenix [00:11:33]: Okay. Yeah, Yeah, I hear that.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:11:36]: Levy breaks Whole Lot of Love and. But the ones that made me realize that it isn't rock were the sound of Silence and the other one was the King of lie. Took up, then turned to gal Zeppelin. Battle of Evermore, maybe. Is that what it's called? With the dulcimer. Hammer. Dulcimer. And what's her name? Maybe. Maybe Allison something. Singing. Yeah, it's the last song on Zeppelin 4. Maybe.

Rain Phoenix [00:12:14]: I wish I knew. I'm not. I'm not that guy. I don't remember names and things like that. I remember.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:12:21]: Apparently. I don't either.

Rain Phoenix [00:12:22]: Yeah, that's all right. Well, I'm going to ask you a couple questions, I think, about your last couple records because they were so vastly different. One was released during the Pandemic. And please correct my pronunciation if it's incorrect. I think it's. Tafl Music means more when you're alone.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:12:41]: Toffel music.

Rain Phoenix [00:12:42]: Toffel.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:12:42]: See, I always say toffel music is a end of the renaissance, early baroque trend that I think was, you know, very beautifully useful. And it was, you know, wealthy people used to be kind of the. The best job you could get as a musician, you know, kings on down to rich people. And so they would want music made for a dinner party. So. And I'm kind of into toffel music. I really think it's a succinct. And. And it's. It. It's very clearly for a feeling. Right. So that record toefl music means more when you're alone. During COVID we released that. But it's a nine course dinner party.

Rain Phoenix [00:13:35]: That's why it's three hours.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:13:37]: Yeah, Three and a half hours or so. Yeah. Yeah. Nine courses with two cigarette breaks. And there's a piece of music for each. Each course. So the soup course is like, you know, salad course is you know, like a little free jazz horn back in the corner. It's. Yeah, it's a really. It's a really interesting project. Then I had to go troll the Internet and find public domain footage that matched the vibe of each course. And then. And then of. Of course, you know, you got all the dishes. So I designed a bunch. And because I'm kind of a foodie, you know, I like food and wine a lot. And then I did the wine pairings, too. And something you can find that's pretty accessible for wines that are generally from like 25 to 45 bucks.

Rain Phoenix [00:14:38]: I love that. Yeah, you took it all the way.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:14:41]: Gotta find shit to do during COVID You know, we released a 30 seconds long song every week on Friday. Wow, 30 seconds long. You want me to show you? Let me show you. Like, I just did this last night. And I thought, God, it's really funny. It's a funny thing to do, is to say this. And it goes, whoops. No. What he did, and only what he did was fight and bitch and always complain. For shame. All he ever did was take and get. And if he didn't, it was hell for everyone. I think I might have gone. I'm not sure if those are the right choices. I love it, but that's it, right? Just a little song. And you can really crank those out as a songwriter too, because that's the easy part. The hard part is finishing them and staying in the emotional and psychological headspace. And then I had to make a video for each of them. And God, we did. We did so much during COVID We got more done than we have since we were on Capitol.

Rain Phoenix [00:15:56]: Yeah, I can totally relate to that. It was a very creative time for me, too. I know a lot of friends who didn't experience that way, who were artists, who kind of shut down creatively, which was interesting. I think it depended on, you know, some people, really.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:16:11]: Everything was dove in.

Rain Phoenix [00:16:12]: Everything.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:16:13]: Everything was just omnipresent. I was so just aware of all the negativity.

Rain Phoenix [00:16:20]: It was just.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:16:21]: It was coming out of my pores. I don't know how you could not. How any artist could not just make up stuff to do, you know? God, it was mental just being alone with your thoughts, you know, I mean, that's like we're sharks, you know, if we don't move, we sink to the bottom and just lay there. And then, you know. Yeah. That way lies madness.

Rain Phoenix [00:16:52]: Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:16:53]: Yeah.

Rain Phoenix [00:16:53]: You have to work well from 30 seconds to three and a half hours for that. Tafl music means more than when you're alone. What was the writing and recording process for that three and a half hour project?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:17:06]: Oh, that started with Peter. You know, we have a. I bought a quarter of a city block when we were having, you know, hit after hit globally. It generates a ton of money in the 90s.

Rain Phoenix [00:17:19]: In the 90s it did, yes.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:17:21]: Yeah. In the early 2000s, it was pretty great. So in fear of being one of those statistics, I bought a quarter city block and just went to work and started remodeling and designing the rooms and the flow of where the workspaces are an extreme, like Roman columns and you know, like extreme design kind of. It's cool. It's a very cool, cool place. But I wanted to make sure that we could always record, we could always practice. We always had a. I have a wine bar in there that pays for the, pays the taxes. I bought the building in cash. Yeah, it was, it was. I was a. I was an alcoholic. I was, you know, in my. I was probably 30, you know, and so I was always. I was either drunk or hungover pretty much every day of my life for quite a long time. And I got this done. I was there at 6am with the hairy concrete guys and the, you know, meeting with industrial engineers to remove some supports from the big room. Sawtooth roof. Get him out of the way of the stage. I beam. 50 foot. I beam. How do you get that through the streets? Yeah, it was crazy. I was just a manic, manic person, you know, doing. Just caning it at night and partying. We were partnered in a bar. We had 14 of us living in the same apartment building. And then we kind of put a group together of dudes and bought the homeless bar next door that had. They're just, you know, just the kind of old school hobos, you know, in there eating the free popcorn and doing the $1 PBR pints. And so we had a, you know, a clubhouse that was our living room and we, it was just party central. It was a crazy, crazy time. And I just cast out this, you know, for a. What do you call it? Would you throw it overboard when a ship is going down? A life preserver. It was a life preserver. I bleary eyed and, you know, mashed potatoes in the head made this decision and it worked out fantastically well.

Rain Phoenix [00:19:49]: And was this the space that you ended up making this epic record in?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:19:53]: Yeah, yeah, we make everything in there. Oh, where I was stoner going with that was, was that you collect a lot of crap. We've always built our own studios. We've never really gone and recorded in a real studio. We always record ourselves. Then we get the best mix engineer that we like their stuff the coolest and we mix with them at a. Whatever the studio level we can afford of the best. So we just built our own, you know, always. And you collect a lot of crap and you collect a lot of toy instruments and great instruments and old instruments and weird, clever, freaky instruments and shaky things and dingy things and rattly things and plastic things. And Peter just said, we've got to make a record where we use every single thing we own. That's how that started.

Rain Phoenix [00:20:51]: Every record needs a concept. That's a good one.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:20:54]: That was a pretty. That's a pretty good one. It opens a lot of doors.

Rain Phoenix [00:20:59]: Wow. So that's kind of how that came to be. You just used every dang thing you had in the space that you had acquired. Wow, that's cool.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:21:07]: Yeah. Then I started because I think a lot about food and wine.

Rain Phoenix [00:21:12]: Okay.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:21:12]: It's. I really do. So I started like, hey, you know, pairings. I'll start organizing this into, you know, a proper dinner. Yeah. And we had a. Well, I had hired a chef. Nanny at the time.

Rain Phoenix [00:21:34]: Who was the nanny for my son. Okay.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:21:38]: And I really don't talk about my family.

Rain Phoenix [00:21:42]: It's okay. We'll cut it out.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:21:43]: Yeah, cut it out.

Rain Phoenix [00:21:44]: Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:21:47]: So, yeah, we worked it out and actually did it. We've done the nine course.

Rain Phoenix [00:21:57]: Oh, you've actually made the food. Had the whole experience while listening to the. Great. Wow, that's cool.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:22:04]: It's hard to time it correctly.

Rain Phoenix [00:22:06]: Right.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:22:07]: It really is. The courses are. We did it once and then we extended them all a lot longer because, man, you sit and you talk and you talk and you eat really slowly, you know.

Rain Phoenix [00:22:24]: Right. You didn't want to feel like you had to race through just to match the music.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:22:29]: Yeah. You know.

Rain Phoenix [00:22:30]: Well, next time, five or six hours, I guess, for the music, for the album, I think.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:22:34]: I think three and a half. We got it.

Rain Phoenix [00:22:36]: You did.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:22:36]: Finally got it.

Rain Phoenix [00:22:37]: Okay. All right. You whittled it down. Well, the next record I wanted to ask you about was Rock Maker, which we do this segment called Special Order. We're just starting to. This is our first. So Pop Goes the Cherry. Special Order. And you special ordered the Dandy Warhol's Rock Maker here from Licorice Pizza Record store.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:22:56]: One of my favorite record covers ever.

Rain Phoenix [00:22:58]: And quite a huge departure from this record we were just discussing. Right. Like this.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:23:04]: I think that's probably a reaction. You know, we tend to react to ourselves and what we don't want to do again because we're not going to do that next, you know.

Rain Phoenix [00:23:14]: Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:23:17]: That. Yeah, that just I wanted to make. Oh. During COVID I started posting Metal Mondays. I just would post up like Run to the Hills. This is maybe 1980 or 79. Iron Maiden. It kind of put them on the map, you know, this was a big deal to me and my friends when it happened and, you know, just breaking the law. Judas Priest. This is a shot heard around the World, you know, for this kind of glam metal, you know, modern glam metal. And you know that I just put these metal and so I then I just wanted to make one and so I started a couple songs and I just had metal riffs and then Pete finally went, that is a cool idea. And so he started doing it and he just, you know, he had a lot more than I did and he has a different take. He's also such an insanely good producer that it was really fun to just let him start every song, you know, almost all of them.

Rain Phoenix [00:24:30]: Yeah. And you guys got like Black Francis and Slash and Debbie Harry involved. What was that like the collaborative side? I mean, do you normally do that where you bring in guests like that? This seemed.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:24:42]: Well, we've never actually just gone out for them and just sent, you know, we've hung out with them and we're, you know, more or less friends, so. But we had a. We had a very cool manager at the time and he just said, you know, because I was struggling with a falsetto part on that song I will never stop loving you. And. And he said, well, if you could have anyone do it, who would it be? And I said, debbie Harry, you know, and he goes, well, let me see. And. But you know, like Slash got right back, you know, within the hour. We had gotten a call back, you know, going, yeah, man, he really wants, he loves this track. He wants to do this like Debbie the. You know, you're going through people and people and people, right? And so that was a bit nerve wracking, like waiting a month and then, oh, you know, another month. And man, God, when we got that back, we were like, you know, because even when, yes, they're going to do it this week and yes, she loves it, you know, you're just going, you know, come on. And I'm not going to believe it until I hear it in our speakers. And then that moment comes and it is like, fuck, yes.

Rain Phoenix [00:26:11]: Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:26:12]: Fuck, this is amazing. Yeah, all three of them. And it's just like. Because you don't know what they're going to do, you know, what they sound like, you know, getting the Black Francis tracks and just, oh my God, I would have never thought to do that, you know. Incredible. Slash, same way, you know, I just said I want that Vietnam vet, you know, he's the last of that guitar player. Maybe the last that'll ever exist. Nothing hipster about it is just great schooled. Feels it just guitar, you know, a classic guitar. And so he's playing Middle Eastern Scales with a crybaby and doing all this stuff. I had no idea that he was as sophisticated and deep. And it's like he's playing. He's gone, you know, Mixolydian mode. Dorian. I don't know what. You know, it's like. It's pretty deeply schooled shit. So we were just time after time so fun. We'll probably try to do it again, you know. Yeah, we never really did before. It's just whoever's drunk at the studio partying while we're recording and plugs in something and. Hey, sing this, you know, Right.

Rain Phoenix [00:27:27]: Do you have any other, like dream artists you would like to collaborate with?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:27:32]: Yeah, of course. You know.

Rain Phoenix [00:27:33]: You want to name some of them here?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:27:36]: No.

Rain Phoenix [00:27:37]: Great. Love it. So why did you pick this record? Rockmaker Special order. Like, what about this?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:27:50]: So that we could have the COVID here.

Rain Phoenix [00:27:52]: Okay.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:27:53]: Yeah. That's Elliot Erwitt, who is one of the. One of the greatest photographers of capturing body language. And he was still alive. He passed it like. Speaking of Taken forever. I think he must have been 100 or something. A New York centric, a French New Yorker. But this is taken in the 50s and it was. They're looking at a Rothko and it's maybe off white and very, very light beige. And if you know what Rothko's tend to look like, what he got famous for is he was doing, you know what like Mondrian would do, except painted like a 6 year old did it right. Just blocks. You could see the brushstrokes on the edges, you know, and you can just see the younger guy is just nervous. Like he had clearly taken his boss, older guy to see. Oh, you're not gonna believe this. This guy's cutting edge. This is the coolest thing. We should invest in this, you know, like this kind of. And the body language of the old guy is like this bullshit kid dude, you know, it's like he's really. Dude, I know art. I know art, you know, like.

Rain Phoenix [00:29:34]: Yeah, yeah, really.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:29:36]: And he's just. His world is. This guy's world is crumbling. His aspirations and ambitions are just crumbling before his eyes. His self esteem, everything. His arrogance, it's so cool.

Rain Phoenix [00:29:51]: It is. What was the process with that photo? How much did it take to get permission? Or did you guys just gorilla?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:30:01]: Well, nobody even knew if they had it, you know, it was hard. Like, nobody. I found his. I found out he was alive still. That was amazing. I didn't get to get together with him for lunch because he wasn't getting out and going by the time I finally found my way through. Yeah. And his. His granddaughter, Phoebe Irwid, is a unbelievable photographer and cinematographer. And she. She's a good working New York young. And then her friend, filmmaker that they came to our gig in God, Helen, beyond Brooklyn, Bushwick, which is now a hot place of all things. Elizabeth Acevedo is another young amazing. They're like Tisch stars. Recently graduated. Their stuff goes to Cannes and stuff like that. And, oh, Phoebe did the Depeche Mode video that came out a year ago. The black and white New York Rooftop.

Rain Phoenix [00:31:13]: I don't know if I saw that, but I will now.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:31:16]: It's killer. But Elizabeth Acevedo did alcohol and cocaine, Marijuana, Nicotine, the song on this record that just got released. And it's just, you know, it's just really cool. She's a great artist. That was cool to. To get her to do that, you know, to do a video for us. It was pretty badass. And she's in Morocco and all these exotic places, and it's kind of, you know, they're hot. They're hot New York young female artists that are definitely doing their thing, you know, and they're real proud of it. I. I was in conversations with her a lot. Well, during the making of it. And it's all. It's a lot of. A lot of, you know, like, it's a team of women. Of young women.

Rain Phoenix [00:32:04]: That's right.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:32:04]: Yeah. It's really. It's really cool. Yeah, they're into it. They're into the woman, you know, working artist thing. Great as a thing.

Rain Phoenix [00:32:14]: Yeah. Right. Well, speaking of women, you chose Miranda Lee Richards to be your launched artist, as we call it here on the show. And I just. Before we bring her on, I wanted to know. I've known Miranda for a long time and loved her work and her music and her voice, but I am so.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:32:37]: Curious why you felt we met Miranda in maybe 94, 95, like, right at the beginning when we would go to San Francisco all the time. And that's when we met the Jonestown Massacre. And we've just been friends for, I guess, all of our adult lives now. And, yeah, she's just brilliant. But, you know, also, she is just such a cool person to talk to. You know, she just says cool things casually and. And she's a. Yeah, she's an interesting. And she's kind of a certain style of person, and I love talking to her. I hope saying these things. I hope she can't hear this. Is she sitting around here somehow? She's not here, you know, because I don't want to make her self conscious because that's what is wonderful about her. We just. What. The reason I'm going into this is because we just spent three weeks on tour together in Europe with her, living on the tour bus with us and opening just acoustic and harmonica and. And it is shocking. We were discussing it a lot, like, as a band, we're going, yeah, what a God. She's just always been this, hasn't she? You know, and it's. It's. Yeah, she's really fun to. To be around. Effortless. She just floats through and. And I, I think that's what musically was. So, so, like, you know, like, there's something really primary earthy. It's, it's, you know, I would stand there and just go, is this what it felt like to be watching folkies in that first generation of modern at Woodstock? A folk, you know, folk heroes like it. Yeah. It's an odd thing. She does something that I don't think anyone in the world that I've ever seen does, you know, And I'm not. I can't put my finger on it either. And also, I'm having a hard time describing her. What, her personality and what. Yeah, she's a real character, a sweet one and an intelligent one, you know.

Rain Phoenix [00:35:05]: Well, that's cool. I'm assuming the other podcasts that you've been on, because I also assume you've been on quite a few with all the touring that you've done and it being your 30th that so many have asked about. Dig the Movie. Am I right in saying that? All right, then we're not going to ask about that, but we are going to bring Miranda Lee Richards up here to have a little chat with you. Welcome to the show, Miranda Lee Richards.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:35:29]: Thank you.

Rain Phoenix [00:35:29]: Yeah, it's nice to have you. Courtney, as you know, asked that you come on as the launch artist and talk a little bit about your music. And obviously it would just be conversational so we can talk about music in general. One of the things we were talking about outside for a second that we missed was how. What a huge difference the industry has. What a huge transformation. The industry.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:35:52]: Yeah. Between the. Well, one caused the other, actually. I always like to comment that MTV had taken what we do and put it up there on the level of, you know, Michael Jordan, you know, Bono, Bill Clinton, you know, everything, politics, everything. Tv, movie stars, Robert Redford, you know, Bruce Springsteen. I mean, it was, you know, the Cure, like the Clash. These were Shown art bands being shown to, you know, housewives and grandpas and, you know, toddlers. And it was. MTV was a fantastic thing that we all bitched and complained about actually when it was happening. And. Wow. That got pulled out from under the, you know, the rug got pulled out from under us and. And that was a. It was like a magic carpet, you know, we were all on a magic carpet ride that we didn't even know. So. Yeah, and it's gone and it's. It's the feudal system. Everyone's just all. We're all artists, just, you know, we've got our little, you know, our little enclave of people. We can go. We can go play Paris, we can go play Geneva. We can't stay in as nice a hotel in Geneva as we can in Paris, you know, London. We can stay in a pretty nice hotel in London, you know, and it's just like, you know, we want 24 hour room service. We can get it, you know, and try, you know, you're out grunting it out on the road. You gotta make it fun. And it just got a lot harder when MTV went away.

Rain Phoenix [00:37:33]: Mm.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:37:34]: I was trying to keep up. Yeah.

Rain Phoenix [00:37:36]: Yeah. And you got to experience that. I mean, I would say Dandy Warhol's is a legacy act.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:37:44]: Yeah, we're a heritage act.

Rain Phoenix [00:37:47]: Yeah. And I think that for those kind of artists that did do something in the 90s and did get on MTV, you kind of can keep carving out. It gets harder for smaller artists who never had that experience. There's really no avenue. All the music is free now. You know, you have to pay to play. It's gotten really small and really difficult. So, you know, thanks for supporting emerging artists. Although, Miranda, you've been. Talk to us a little bit about how long you've been making music, because I know I met you about 10 years ago and you were making music then, I assume it was longer. You want to share a little bit about your music over the years or.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:38:27]: Well, yeah. So to give you an idea of the timing, I was in the audience at the 90s shows in San Francisco when they would come down and tour. And Zia was already in the band, so she was my way shower. And I was watching other performers be up there like Kristin Hirsch, like Hope Sandoval, There was just a few.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:38:52]: And during the Grunge 90s, during the.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:38:55]: Grunge 90s, they were poking through and I had been singing in choir and school bands and things like that. And I thought, well, that's what I want to do professionally. Again, the last era of when you could even think that way. I mean, I think no one going into it now has any chance of that.

Rain Phoenix [00:39:15]: It's just.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:39:15]: Yeah, it's an entertainment driven field. You know, music is. Yeah, it's entertainers and it's pop. Pop things. I think, you know, the artists. The artists in pop music are the producers. Those are. That's where you go. I mean, which is a smart way to go because then you're, you know, you're only. You can control the faucet, how much hot water you want. You know, do you want to be really fam or do you want to be rich and behind the scenes and go to any restaurant you want? You can have the. You can have the best seats courtside. You know, nobody knows who you are, you know, and you have all the great artists are your friends. I think that's the, you know, which is great. It's great to see. But I just don't like the music. Yeah, right. I don't like the vocal.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:40:11]: I know I'd have a lot more money.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:40:14]: Yeah, yeah. I mean, occasionally I do. Occasionally some great pop production comes through with a singer that isn't doing one of the five cliche lame voices that you're supposed to do to have a hit. But sometimes somebody cool breaks through, which is always nice.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:40:34]: You could have a stage name or something, and there you go.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:40:38]: Yeah, I think somebody organized that for me online about 15 years ago. And I was Tay Tay Bordeaux.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:40:46]: Okay, there you go.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:40:47]: And I think it was somebody had found a picture of me with that white jacket on.

Rain Phoenix [00:40:51]: See?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:40:51]: And they went, oh, he's hip hop now. He's like a pop. This would be Tay Tay Bordeaux. I like that because Bordeaux is my favorite wine. I talk about it a lot. Oh, I was telling you about my wine podcast. I have a podcast.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:41:04]: I know you do.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:41:05]: Have you heard it?

Miranda Lee Richards [00:41:07]: I have. And I heard, like, the band always goes, oh, no, Courtney's gonna talk about his wine podcast.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:41:13]: Really? I love it. And I watch. Have you ever watched yourself get drunk? Have you ever just put a camera on and just got drunk and talked to somebody? So I do it with this guy in Wisconsin and we go to the grocery store at the same time and get on FaceTime and, you know, and make sure. So we're only getting wines that can be gotten anywhere in America, and we keep it from 22 to 35 bucks. And then we. We open them at the same time. We have the same size glass, we have the same cheese, the same cracker, and we sit and we just talk and we taste it and we just taste through as it changes and it opens up and as you get the buzz on and how the buzz changes. And like sometimes when you're down around the 22 buck range, I've learned so much by doing this about myself. Cause I watch myself get drunk, which is not a fun thing to do at first. But also talking about the high that you get off of wine, you know, if you watch a weed podcast, that's all they're talking about, right? A little bit about the flavor, but mostly it's the trip. And man, 22 bucks will get you a depressing buzz.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:42:20]: A dark buzz.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:42:21]: Yeah, 35 bucks gets you an elative, like celebratory kind of, you know, like, whoa, this is awesome. I'm having so much fun now.

Rain Phoenix [00:42:34]: What's the name of your podcast?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:42:36]: Wine Acoustics.

Rain Phoenix [00:42:37]: Wine Acoustics, everyone. Check it out.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:42:40]: Yeah, it's really fun. And then. And we talk about music, of course. I can't not.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:42:43]: Yeah, so fun.

Rain Phoenix [00:42:45]: So, Miranda, I'd love to hear a little bit about what you're working on now. It sounds like you've been interested in music since the 90s and then started making that your. What you were going to do in life. Is that right? And so I know you've made many albums over the years, but I also know you have a new one coming out in 2025. Can you share a little bit about that record and the process of making it?

Miranda Lee Richards [00:43:09]: So it is yet to be named, unfortunately. That would have been good. But keep your eye out. But it's, you know, I'm going back to my roots. You know, Courtney saw me play with the harmonica and the guitar. And if you can do that, you can pretty much do anything, I think musically. And I am building around that, around the song and around the performance.

Rain Phoenix [00:43:37]: So that's really cool. So it's kind of a more stripped down folk.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:43:42]: Yeah, I would say. So now's the time. Now or never.

Rain Phoenix [00:43:45]: Right?

Miranda Lee Richards [00:43:46]: And you know, what are we going to talk about? You know, I mean, speaking of like going silent in the pandemic, or some of us did and some of us didn't. And then in the climate now, you know. Yeah, maybe no one wants. Maybe no one wants it to be too specific. Maybe the poetry and the metaphor is what's going to carry us through. Like all good music that's transcendental anyway. Right?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:44:14]: Yeah, I wonder about that a lot. There aren't protest songs. There's no Voice of Rebellion or whatever. There's no protest.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:44:29]: Where'd everyone go?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:44:30]: Yeah, I guess it's not as intimately threatening because they're not getting sent to die in the jungles of Korea or Vietnam or I mean of the nom And Yeah, I mean I think that's probably. It is. It's still on the news.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:44:50]: There's not enough lives being lost yet. Or not their lives too removed. Yeah, I mean there are.

Rain Phoenix [00:44:57]: Yeah.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:44:57]: But not.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:44:58]: Right, right.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:44:59]: But not our soldiers or not our high school graduates. Right. If it's on foreign territory or soil.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:45:06]: Yeah. You have to sign up still to die for the country.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:45:10]: There's no draft.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:45:11]: Yeah, yeah.

Rain Phoenix [00:45:13]: It seems a very difficult thing for people, myself included I think in general to wrap your head around something that is not happening to you. And it takes like a really intense kind of practice to have that deep compassion where you feel that, you know, you have that in empathic ability to actually think about what their lives must be like on foreign soil and what they are going through and really think about that daily. And I do think art and music has such an incredible an opportunity to translate, transmute and translate that pain, that suffering to people who aren't really feeling it, you know, aren't connecting to that. You know, I. I could preach and say I think it's an artist's responsibility to do that, but I also tend to shy away from that because I think each artist has their own journey and some.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:46:13]: And it's a selfish act. Art.

Rain Phoenix [00:46:15]: Yeah, yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:46:16]: It is a self centered. It's, you know, I think at the. At the most public it can be is. Is a. Is an antisocial kind of. If it's any good, you got to get inside in there and be really like. Like. I get through. I get through writer's block by literally convincing myself that I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna write a song I'll never play for anyone ever. And I can just embarrass myself in front of myself and just. And that's how I. I get so. But yeah, sometimes you want to be anti. Something is inspiring. I just don't get why there's not. People get out and protest, they wave signs and they block freeways and they do that, but they won't write a song. And you know, they're probably all making electronic music on their laptops. They're all. They're that seem to be that kind of, you know, active.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:47:24]: Yeah, I mean I've attempted it before. It's a tough one. You have to watch out that you don't pull from the modern narrative. And that can be trendy or not timeless or soundbites you hear in the media that don't stand the test of time. And you also have to come up with a unique perspective that is like, where the thread is of the human or from humanity's voice. And it's just the people experience. The people.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:47:59]: A people experience which can be almost anything.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:48:03]: And so many people are having so many different experiences. So, you know, when I was over in Europe with these guys, I actually. At the very tail end, before I flew home, I saw a folk concert in London. And it was a night of a woman by the name of Shirley Collins. And she did a lot of field studies in the 1960s. She brought her guitar out. She learned American folk songs and was like studying the bridge between the Appalachian folk songs and the British and English folk songs. And she brought up that she thought protest songs were. They were oftentimes from the ego. From the writer's ego.

Rain Phoenix [00:48:50]: Interesting.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:48:51]: And that it took us a very special perspective to go beyond that and not be, like, calling attention to this.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:49:00]: Oh, oh, you mean they were just. Yeah. Like the kids that go to protests to, you know, hook up with some of you, you know, feel cool. You know, like that. That's like, God. I mean, to write a song and release it is to be an egomaniac. Like, I'm so special.

Rain Phoenix [00:49:22]: Yeah.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:49:23]: You have to have, you know, a healthy one.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:49:26]: Yeah. Or unhealthy, whatever it is. I can't. I never quite figured it out.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:49:30]: I mean, I didn't entirely agree with that. I mean, I'm thinking of someone like Bob Dylan or Joan Baez, who really bringing. Well, Bob Dylan tried to shy away from being the voice of the generation, but let's just say that there's been music that's been very powerful at times. It just really galvanized a movement, and there's a voice. You have people. Your friends are coming home in a casket and, you know, all that. And addicted to heroin and all these things that were happening. Oh. And one of the ingredients in a time like that is a conservative government.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:50:08]: Yeah. That's one of the key ingredient.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:50:11]: So we've got that again, so we'll see what happens.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:50:14]: But it didn't produce any music last time, you know.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:50:18]: Yeah. Or it just didn't.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:50:20]: Oof.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:50:21]: Like I said, I tried. I have a song called Another World if anyone wants to listen. It's 12 minutes from my last record.

Rain Phoenix [00:50:28]: Wow.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:50:28]: I tried, but when I listen back to it, there's some things I would change. Maybe I'll make a round two.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:50:36]: During COVID I did one of the 32nd. My song was. Yours was 12 minutes. Mine was 30 seconds, even better, called We don't need to Make America Hate Again. And it's a really good 32nd song.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:50:50]: It comes out. There's a lot to say.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:50:53]: There is, yeah.

Rain Phoenix [00:50:55]: It's hard. It is though. The idea of writing, specifically going into trying to write a song that's going to like be part of the, you know, that always feels just too false. So it's really hard. But there are certain artists that kind of can hint around it or share their thoughts on something, but couched in poetry, which I think is kind of what you're talking about. Making a folk album that's really just like, maybe we don't need to lay it out. Maybe it can be poetry. And if you get from it what you're looking for, that is touching upon some of the deeper issues. Great. But it may not have meant that.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:51:28]: That'S what I've always used as a last resort is, you know, to not nail it in prose, just to use impressionist language and decorative language is. I've never really thought about doing that on purpose. That's sort of like the last resort. What you make up for with obscurity, what you lack in content.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:51:51]: Yeah, there you go.

Rain Phoenix [00:51:53]: Yeah. It's interesting. It changes, right? Yeah.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:51:55]: Right. Just playing for each other.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:51:59]: I mean, you bash through it on how you feel, you know, you are all. Is your, like, am I going to be embarrassed that this is too blatantly. I'm dodging the issue and being mealy mouthed and not really saying it? Or is this just too blatant and vulgar? And like, is this, oh, here's the other one. Is this a child's perspective? You know, is this an immature perspective take on it? Am I just uninformed?

Rain Phoenix [00:52:28]: Well, but then again, if you just said it at the beginning when you said, you know, you do things to feel as an artist, to feel that they serve, why you did them as an artist and you're not for other people or you shouldn't be second guessing.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:52:46]: Yeah.

Rain Phoenix [00:52:47]: Like, do I sound dumb? Do I? Right. If you really believed in whatever might be your version of a protest song, you would put it out probably even if it had ridicule, you know, or people made. Right. I mean, yeah, but also, there's always somebody. To be fair, you might shelve it. You know what I mean? After you've made it, you might be like, oh, I'm too embarrassed and I Might shelve it. It's hard to make one of those. I agree. This artist here, Jenny O, who's local, she managed to do that with a couple of her songs. So. Well, like, that just felt like a rally cry to the people, you know, But. But. But it was. Took her a while to. Because I think she wanted to do something like that, and I think she tried and took. And then finally, I think it just, like, poured out the right thing. And so she was able to do that in a way that was really powerful.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:53:34]: You have to really catch yourself off guard.

Rain Phoenix [00:53:37]: Yeah, exactly. Can't think about it. Can't think about it.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:53:41]: They're. Yeah, let's do it.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:53:45]: What a job.

Rain Phoenix [00:53:45]: Do you write a stream of consciousness lyrics? Like, when you're writing lyrics, is it just kind of like you're writing a melody and you're like, oh, there's the. I'm singing it, and now there's words forming? Or do you really sit with lyrics later? Or is it both?

Miranda Lee Richards [00:54:00]: It's probably both. I would say my best lyrics. I surprise myself.

Rain Phoenix [00:54:06]: Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:54:07]: Oh, God. Yeah.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:54:07]: Oh, that was good. You know.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:54:10]: Where did that go?

Miranda Lee Richards [00:54:11]: Where'd that come from? That was better than I could have come up with.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:54:15]: Oh, yeah, that's.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:54:17]: That's number one.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:54:18]: Yeah, that's the best one.

Rain Phoenix [00:54:20]: Do you think that's like divine intervention? And I use divine just more as like a sort of antenna is up and we're in that place in your.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:54:30]: In your consciousness. And you're open. You're open.

Rain Phoenix [00:54:34]: Right.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:54:35]: You know, to the thoughts around.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:54:36]: Doors open. Doors are open. The windows are open. You know, everything's open. Everything that can be open is pretty much open. Yeah, yeah. And then you have. And then you. It comes out and you go, you know, Love that.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:54:51]: Yep.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:54:52]: Because other than that, if you're actively taking part in writing it actively, then you're acting in a passive aggressive. It's a passive aggressive act.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:55:04]: It's also intentional.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:55:06]: Yeah, you're being passive aggressive. You know, you're doing it. Yeah. You're doing it because you're gonna show them or something. You know, there's this kind of, like getting it out kind of grappling with yourself and trying to figure out why it's not coming and all that, you know? God. To write a song is hard.

Rain Phoenix [00:55:28]: Yeah.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:55:29]: Or as you wrote, you had to finish a song. Right.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:55:32]: To finish a song.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:55:33]: And have you guys found that when you're writing, there's this amazing stream that can come out when you're just playing and singing and you have to be able to capture that, you know, remember it. Remember it. Like I heard that Jimmy Webb or somebody used to, maybe even John Lennon used to use the tape recorder. Like we have the phone now. We're so lucky, by the way.

Rain Phoenix [00:55:54]: Yeah. So lucky.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:55:55]: There's the big red button even in.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:55:58]: The car, you know, we're so.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:55:59]: Sit into it. Yeah.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:56:01]: Capture everything. But like he used to just play the piano and sing and then listen to it back. I mean, it could take hours to do this, to decipher it all. But what about all those lines that come out where you're not thinking? It's like automatic writing.

Rain Phoenix [00:56:15]: That's my favorite.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:56:16]: Once you hit record. Once you hit record, it changes you, though. You cinch up, you know, you do.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:56:23]: Oh, maybe even before the recording.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:56:25]: So you've got to. You've got to get stoned so you forget that you've hit record and it's like, next thing you know, it is like you're saying you're an hour and a half in and you're like, oh, oh, the phone. Did I turn that off?

Miranda Lee Richards [00:56:39]: You forgot to turn it off, right?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:56:40]: Yeah, like I forgot I was recording that whole time. Oh my God. There's some great stuff in there now.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:56:46]: I gotta listen to it now.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:56:47]: You gotta find tune.

Rain Phoenix [00:56:48]: That's the problem. You gotta sit through it then.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:56:50]: Takes some discipline.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:56:51]: Editing, like filmmaking, God, we shot so much great stuff and then I have to edit it.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:57:00]: We need editors that you can trust.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:57:04]: Their taste and their ability to invent bridges and transitions and things that cover up your shortcomings as a filmmaker and as a director and as a visionary and all.

Rain Phoenix [00:57:18]: Like, I know some great editors, if you guys.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:57:21]: Can you tell that I just hate my job. Just. I'm so tired of being an artist.

Rain Phoenix [00:57:29]: God, you heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:57:33]: I'm thinking of the workload part of it. Why is that? Oh, because I haven't made a record in a while. Right. It's been. We finished the record like a year and a half ago or something and it's time to make another record.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:57:49]: You haven't done the fun part enough of the fun part, right?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:57:51]: I haven't, yeah. Wow.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:57:54]: And the touring is even a bit of work too.

Rain Phoenix [00:57:56]: Oh, yes.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:57:57]: Just saying.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:57:58]: That's why we try to keep it to like eight days, five days, two weeks. That three week tour was the longest thing we've done in quite a long time.

Rain Phoenix [00:58:06]: What a cool experience.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:58:07]: I didn't know you're. You're a real legit drinker. Because you weren't when you were younger. You know.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:58:13]: You know, I had a night. Was it in Haag?

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:58:18]: Oh, we all did.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:58:20]: Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:58:20]: Dane Hogg.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:58:21]: Yeah. So, you know. But, you know, I actually.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:58:24]: The Hague.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:58:24]: The Hague is holy. You know, it's still. It's still minus maybe once every few years. I would say it's still in moderation. That was my once every few years. It was fun. Yeah. So. But, yeah. And people telling you they know where the tour bus is and they're gonna take you to it. That was. Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:58:51]: You.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:58:52]: You. Yeah.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:58:53]: Which way is it?

Miranda Lee Richards [00:58:54]: My phone died.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:58:55]: Oh, my gosh. Okay. We all need a personal babysitter.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:58:59]: Apparently, we need a little air tag on us.

Rain Phoenix [00:59:02]: Yes.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:59:02]: Onto her.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:59:04]: Someone's getting away. Who is that?

Miranda Lee Richards [00:59:06]: Before your phone dies. Yeah, that's a good one, actually. If you really had someone.

Rain Phoenix [00:59:11]: Yeah.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:59:11]: Yeah. Anyway, she had so much fun. We had so much fun. And speaking of good wine, I mean, if I can. That's one of the things. If I can keep it to good wine, then that. That's helpful.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:59:22]: It's the only alcohol I drink, but sometimes getting.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:59:25]: I mean, even on the rider, getting really good wine was mostly good. There was a couple whites that were pretty questionable that were angry drunks.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:59:35]: Yeah. I don't touch those.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:59:37]: The hangover.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:59:39]: Yeah, like you're drinking it and you're getting a hangover while you're drinking. You know, that's not good.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:59:45]: A headache already.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [00:59:46]: Yeah. That's not a good wine. You can smell it. Don't put it in.

Miranda Lee Richards [00:59:51]: Yeah.

Rain Phoenix [00:59:52]: Well, I know that we have to wrap this up so that you can get to soundtrack and all that good stuff. So I heard you guys are going to perform together a song by an artist that you both really love. I would say loved. But she's still here, and I hope she's still making music.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:00:14]: She's the great Kristin Hirsch.

Rain Phoenix [01:00:15]: Yes, Kristin Hirsch. One of my faves, too. And when you told me what song, I got super excited. If you hear some weird harmony from the back room, it'll be me behind. That'd be amazing because I love, love this song. So we're gonna have you. Would you want to share what song it is, Miranda?

Miranda Lee Richards [01:00:36]: It's called you're Ghost.

Rain Phoenix [01:00:39]: All right.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:00:40]: Yeah, it's one that I play like a couple times a year. Probably live with. Zia can't really make it through a whole show without having to go to the bathroom, I think because she has to get kind of maybe a stiffer buzz on than anyone else in the band. Maybe she gets the most nervous or something. We did kind of stick her up at the front of the stage, though.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:01:07]: So she says for her voice, I guess.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:01:09]: Oh, okay. All right. You have all the inside scoop. All right. Okay. So I have a handful of songs that I play, and that one has been historically one that I do because it's just such a. I don't learn other people's songs very much. I only know four or something, you know? And so that. That happens to be one of them. And it's just stunner. I hope to do it justice. I know you sound. When you were singing it, when we were just doing a little bit of. A few minutes ago. Yeah. Your voice is incredible. So it made me feel kind of stupid to even be singing it.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:01:44]: No, no. That's what's gonna be cool.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:01:46]: Okay.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:01:47]: If I sing it, I can't. I can't compete. I can't, you know, I don't know.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:01:50]: It'll only be as cool. It'll only be as cool as we are. It can only be as cool. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It is.

Rain Phoenix [01:02:01]: Well, we're gonna reset for that now.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:02:03]: Guys, I am nervous. I get nervous about recording something for forever.

Rain Phoenix [01:02:08]: Well, we don't have to put it up if you don't like it.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:02:10]: Oh, right. If I walk down this hallway tonight it's too quiet so I pad through the dark call you on the phone push your old number and let your house ring till I wake your ghost let him walk walk down your hallway it's not this quiet? Slide down your receiver sprint across the.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:02:57]: Wire.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:03:00]: Follow my number slide into my.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:03:05]: Hand.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:03:08]: And it's the blaze across your nightgown it's the phone's ring.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:03:20]: I think last night you were driving circles around.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:03:28]: Me.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:03:31]: I think last night you were driving circles around I think last night you were driving circles around me.

Courtney Taylor-Taylor [01:03:54]: I can't drink this coffee till I put you in my closet Let him shoot me down let him call me off I take it from your whisper he's not that tough and hits the blaze across your nightgown it's the phone's ring.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:04:31]: I think last night you were driving circles around me I think last night you were driving circles around me you were driving? You were driving circles around me.

Rain Phoenix [01:05:21]: Launch.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:05:21]: Left aims to create an intentional space.

Rain Phoenix [01:05:23]: That highlights and empowers all artists for.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:05:26]: Whom radical creativity is not a choice, but a necessity.

Rain Phoenix [01:05:30]: Launch left begins with music, but its ultimate aim is to launch left of.

Miranda Lee Richards [01:05:34]: Center artists in all creative fields.