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Welcome to Judicial Dollars and Cents, brought to you by Anders virtual CFO services team from all across the United States.
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I'm John Scott, and in each episode, we'll shine a light on the financial side of the legal world, turning law firm numbers into impact-driven stories.
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From taxes and profitability to practice growth and leadership, we sit down with law firm innovators who are shaping the future of the profession.
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Let's dive in right here on Judicial Dollars and Cents.
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Hey, welcome back to Judicial Dollars and Cents.
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This is the podcast where we dive into the business side of running a law firm.
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I'm John Scott with Anders Virtual CFO Services for Law Firms, and each week we talk with industry experts who help law firm leaders think differently about growth, profitability, and performance so they can build practices that last.
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Today we welcome Katanga Wright.
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Katanga is the co-founder of the Wright Legal Group.
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It's a law firm serving clients throughout Columbus and Atlanta, Georgia, as well as the District of Columbia.
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Through her practice, she focuses on delivering strategic legal guidance and practical solutions, as well as client-centered advocacy designed to help individuals and businesses navigate through challenging legal situations.
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She's built her reputation around responsive communication, personalized legal strategy, and empowering clients through education and clarity.
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In addition to her legal work, Katanga is recognized for her leadership, community engagement, and commitment to helping clients feel informed and supported throughout the process.
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Katanga, welcome to the show.
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Thank you.
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I was like, Wow, is all that about me?
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It is.
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It is.
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You have a very unique background.
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And as our loyal listeners know, I love hearing about people's origin story.
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And I think you have some things that aren't typical for a lot of attorneys.
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You have a minor in science and chemistry.
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You have a father who was a lawyer as well.
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You've worked on the defense side.
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So tell me, what was you always destined to be a lawyer, or how did we get to here and you forming your own firm?
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I was certainly not destined to be a lawyer.
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In fact, my father encouraged me not to come to law school.
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And my mother was a powerful influence in my life, and she's in the medical profession.
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And I think secretly she always wanted to go to medical school.
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So from about eight years old, she just kind of started drilling in me the idea of becoming a doctor and medical school, and the whole science thing was interesting to me.
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So she sent me to Emory to be a doctor.
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And after spending time at University of Alabama Medical School one summer, I saw everything that a young, aspiring doctor wants to see.
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I was in the ER and I saw hip replacement and I saw babies being born, and I was doing well baby visits with a local family medicine doctor.
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And my takeaway was the idea of it sounded good and watching was one thing, but participating was a whole nother ball game.
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And I decided medicine was not for me, much to my mother's dismay.
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But I continued on with my chemistry degree because I knew I had marketable skills coming out of school, and at least I could get a job and help pay my Emory debt that I was gonna have.
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And so, luckily enough, the year I was graduating, they were hiring a ton of people with science degrees at the Georgia Bureau of Investigation Crime Lab.
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They had gotten a big grant and were hiring uh scientists, and I was one of them.
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And I ended up in a forensic toxicology track.
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So I was studying blood and urine and investigating what type of substances may be there that affected a person's ability in whatever situation that we were asked to tackle.
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And that was kind of a perfect marriage between science and law because I found that my favorite part about the job was going to court and testifying as an expert witness.
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Wow, that's that's awesome.
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And sometimes uh finding out what you don't want to do, you have to do it or or be around it to figure out that that's not what you want to do.
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And some people force themselves to do the things that really don't fit them well, and they're miserable in life.
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So I'm glad you found something that you really enjoy.
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Oh, yeah.
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And COVID confirmed it when I didn't have to be in a hospital during that time.
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I was like, thank you, Lord.
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Well, we we all came out of COVID changed, and hopefully that we don't live through another one of those in our lifetime.
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Yeah.
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So tell me about your firm and what type of law do you practice?
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Well, I'm a trial attorney at heart.
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Uh, so all of our practice areas really gear toward trial and advocacy.
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Um, so and everything we do is because I had some background coming into it.
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Um, for instance, we handle a lot of personal injury cases.
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My first job out of law school was working for travelers insurance, doing insurance defense, representing people who I now sue.
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So I understand both sides of that whole industry.
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Uh, we also handle DUI um work.
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I tell people we represent good people who have bad days because typically my DUI clients are, you know, just had a bad night.
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But um, because of my experience as a forensic toxicologist, I was the scientist that was actually performing those tests and going to court and testifying.
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Now I'm an attorney advocating for my clients who are going through that process.
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Uh, we handle VA benefits as well because I'm a former Army spouse, and my children have benefited a lot from the VA programs that they offer.
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And so assisting veterans, those who have served our country, assisting them with getting the benefits they deserve is something I'm very passionate about.
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And then we do a lot of business-related litigation in various forms, depending on what uh just so happens to come across uh one of my clients' desks.
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And that's always exciting.
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And the last thing we do is probate related litigation.
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So um helping people who have lost loved ones navigate that process.
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So you have kind of this full service firm, a lot of different service lines, and it's great that you know both sides of a lot of those pieces of law, both the on the PI side, on the the criminal defense side, you know what the other side's thinking and where the flaws are, and you can help exploit those.
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That's awesome.
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With respect to billing methods, PI is obviously contingent on the other things.
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Do you do fixed fee?
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Do you do hourly?
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How do you how do you handle those fees?
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Great question.
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Um, I designed the firm um so that we could really have everything be contingency or flat rate, because I was trying to avoid the billable hour.
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Then you realize that even in a contingency or flat rate practice, you still have to keep up with your billing.
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So we still bill and keep up with our time on all of our cases because we need to know dollars and cents-wise, you know, if we've invested too much in a case and making sure that we're setting our flat rates accordingly.
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But for the most part, we are flat rate and contingency, except some of those one-off litigation files.
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Those are hourly uh retainer cases.
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I love the fact that you track time, even in that flat rate environment, because I have this debate all the time with the flat rate or subscription-based attorneys who don't track time.
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And the reason they did flat rate is so they wouldn't track time, but there's no way to job cost it.
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There's no way to judge if your flat rate is fair to both sides unless you track that time.
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So I applaud you for that.
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Do you utilize a case management system?
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I mean, you do a lot of different types of law, and there are case management systems that are good for one, but not for all.
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What case management system, if any, do you use in your practice?
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Well, I say we use a trifecta of case management uh softwares.
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Uh, my case kind of being the anchor of what we do and kind of all of our billing is there.
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That's where we invoice clients.
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Even on contingency fee cases, we put together an invoice, and that's our final bill in on our even contingency fee cases.
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So my case, along with HONA for our client communications, because we're able to automate based on where a case moves from stage to stage, particular messages that clients receive.
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Uh, and then we also use Lawmatics, and that's the software that also connects with my case, but it's the software we use when we are attracting and um setting appointments for potential new clients who were coming through the door.
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That's great.
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It sounds like you really have a good handle on that.
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Does my case feed into your accounting software?
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Yes.
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We utilize QuickBooks and my case and QuickBooks.
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And when I was selecting practice management softwares, that was a major piece that I wanted to make sure we had was the ability to integrate with a lot of different pieces of software.
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And my case has come a long way in that respect.
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And I'm very pleased with where we are with being able to integrate with things like QuickBooks.
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I always appreciate it when a case management software doesn't try and do its own accounting piece because they don't do it well.
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And QuickBooks does a really nice job.
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So a lot of them, sounds like my case has built an interface so that it can download back and forth.
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And it really just makes it if the case management system company stays in their lane and does a really good job on that, and then utilizes that bridge to an accounting software that does a really nice job as well.
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That's a much better use of their resources rather than the big behemoth in the room has created their own accounting system now.
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And they're gonna tout that and say, oh, leave QuickBooks, we have this, but they don't really feed it and grow it.
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So it's not really a good solution on a long-term basis.
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I'm glad you said that, John, because my case did try, they have built their own accounting platform within the software.
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And we tried, you know, to utilize it because again, it's nice to have everything in one place, but it just doesn't match up to the functionalities and the user interface that we're used to with our current QuickBooks software.
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It's almost like the founder and the product development team have a checkbox that says, oh, we need an accounting piece.
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So then they do it and they set it to the side.
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They tell the world we have this accounting solution, you should use it, but it it never works out long term.
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What about AI?
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Are you embracing AI and trying to utilize it in your practice, or are you taking a slow approach to it?
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Oh, well, we have gone full speam ahead on AI.
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Uh, in fact, I was in a conference a couple of weeks ago, and one of the presenters said, AI won't replace lawyers, but lawyers that use AI will replace the ones that don't.
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And so I have definitely embraced that philosophy with respect to embracing technology just generally speaking.
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So the AI piece is very exciting for us in the law firm, and my staff utilizes it as well.
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We um are currently our main AI vendors, Eve Legal, and they do an excellent job of, you know, giving us medical chronologies, giving us responses to motions, helping us draft discovery responses and all types of things that I was really paying an associate oftentimes to assist with the drafting piece.
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Now I'm able to get a drafted document that's at the review stage where I'm able to go in, make tweaks, make sure all my law cases are correct, things like that.
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You don't want to totally rely on AI.
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But it's just like having an associate.
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You wouldn't want to totally rely on uh any work that your associate would produce either.
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So we have definitely utilized AI in our practice, a lot of it in the business, um drafting client communications, um, doing things within our software with cloud AI, because it can actually go into your software, like in my case, and help us build workflows and things like that.
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So we have fully embraced it.
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So we are definitely not AI adverse.
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I think we're trying to do our best with keeping up because I think at some point it's changing so much.
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You know, the company we use today next year will probably be different.
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Probably even three months from now.
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And you're so right that the human element still has to be there.
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You have to go in and review it because every once in a while it's gonna have a brain fart and give you something that doesn't make sense, but it's gonna create a lot of efficiency to allow you to work on higher level things.
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And I heard what you said about AI a little bit differently.
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I heard a speaker say that firms that embrace AI, it's going to allow smaller and mid-sized firms to compete up with the larger firms.
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It's gonna give them that advantage to help them compete in a bigger pond.
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I agree a hundred percent.
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So I want to switch gears a little bit back to your accounting piece.
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How do you in QuickBooks or with my case forecast the next 13 weeks, 12 months, three years?
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Do you have any processes in place to help you build that forecast?
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That's definitely something we probably could do a better job of, but we're looking at, you know, where we were this time last year as a guide.
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Uh, and then we're also looking at, well, what are our goals for this year and where are we with respect to those goals?
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Um, we're tracking how many new cases we get um every month, and we estimate the value of those cases.
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So we're doing that kind of along the way as we go.
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Uh, but we definitely could do a much better job of forecasting.
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But with a contingency fee practice, as you know, that becomes extremely difficult because the case comes through the door and it may be an$8,000 fee case or an$800,000 fee case, uh, which would be a really good day, but uh hard to predict sometimes on the contingency fee side.
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Well, I do want to challenge you a little bit on that because you know we have firms that are fully PI, and what we do is you have this inventory of cases, and you already have some of these pieces, um, and you know about what those things are worth.
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You're not gonna be exact, but you know a lot of MVAs and what the range of values are, and you know the milestones within the life cycle of those cases from intake to adjudication.
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And so what we do is we build a platform that feeds from the case management system into Excel or a Google Doc, and then the attorneys will update the life cycle of those cases, and maybe even, you know, if you thought a case was worth$8,000 and all of a sudden it's worth$150,000, they can update that.
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And then we utilize that to forecast the next 13 weeks of cash flow, realizing that you know the type of PI case you have will be different.
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But MVA cases are all very similar unless there's a catastrophic event in there.
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And then malpractice cases are different, so that's a different life cycle and different milestones and different values.
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But once you get that, and then you get the attorneys and paralegals to update it on a monthly basis, then you have a better handle on what the value of that inventory is worth and when it might be coming in.
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As I was listening to you, I was just thinking, I wonder how AI could help me do that process.
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And I bet there's a way that I'm gonna be able to do that.
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You have that software.
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You have that software that already sends out communications at at certain milestones.
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So those milestones are set.
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I I think you're you're probably pretty close to being able to forecast in that area, and AI could help with that.
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Um I kind of forgot what I was gonna ask you, so I'll pivot here a little bit.
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Uh is your father still practicing?
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Well, my father unfortunately passed away uh in 2004, uh, 2024, and uh it was pretty unexpected, and I do miss him dearly.
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Um, and his spirit lives on for this firm, and I'm so um happy that I had an opportunity to have this time to practice with my dad because I did never intended on coming back to Columbus, Georgia after graduating law school and, you know, getting my dream job working for, you know, the big fancy insurance company.
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Um, and neither did he.
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So he closed his practice after I decided not to come home initially.
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And then I was in a really not so big case, but we did not do such a great job because the other side ended up getting like a$1.5 million verdict.
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And I'm looking at myself and I'm looking at the other side, and I'm like, I'm at the wrong counsel table.
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So I called my dad and I said, I think I'm gonna come home and and give uh, you know, this whole law thing a shot from the plaintiff's perspective.
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And that's when we started the right legal group.
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And so having the opportunity to work with him and learn from him was definitely a great experience.
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One that I didn't anticipate having, but I'm so glad I did.
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I'm sure he was invaluable to you because he had had his own practice, and so he was able to show you some ropes, even though a lot of the things had changed, but he knew where the pitfalls were.
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But if you think back to forming that firm, is there one or two things that you would do differently today from inception, knowing what you know now?
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Well, on the finance side, I started the firm with$10,000 and I watched that go like poof, the magic dragon so fast.
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Uh so leaving my corporate job and starting the firm, I could have done a better job with a transition and a ramp up.
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Uh, and thinking through kind of realistically what six months of a new startup firm look like from a revenue perspective and startup cost perspective.
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So that was kind of where I missed the mark.
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So we we struggled there a few years in the beginning as a result of not having good footing.
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But eventually we kind of got our foundation and now we're in a lot better place.
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But that would be the one thing that I would think right off top hand, I would be differently.
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Yeah, once you get the flywheel of cases, either settling on the PI side or hourly billing or bills going out the door and getting cash.
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I mean, that's a 45 to 60 day cycle on the on the fixed fee engagements.
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And so once you get that flywheel going, it it's kind of self-sustaining.
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How did you survive that early on?
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Was it line of credit?
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I'm a God-fearing woman.
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And so I'm gonna say it was really a lot of divine intervention.
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Um, I remember particularly one Christmas when I got a referral on a case, and the next thing I know, a guy brought, you know, a check for$10,000 for a case.
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I honestly didn't know how I was even gonna tackle it.
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You know, it was something outside of my wheelhouse, so to speak, but it showed up and I actually ended up getting him a really good result.
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But um, it was things like that that happened along the way that kept me going, despite a mother who kept insisting that I get a job.
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But I kept thinking about my clients, I kept thinking about the fact that I'm not a quitter, uh, that failure was not an option.
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And despite not having any idea a lot of weeks how I was gonna make payroll, I kept going and here we are.
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Well, there is a ton of security in getting a paycheck from a company every two weeks, as opposed to hunting and finding and billing and collecting.
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So I applaud you for sticking it out and and creating a good firm, a great firm.
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And and God did provide in your case, so that's awesome.
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Um, I do remember what I wanted to say earlier, and and it it revolves around prepaid case costs, especially in the PI world.
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You know, I've got firms that do a lot of PI work, and they'll have a great profit for the year, but no cash because their prepaid case costs grew so much that that's their investment.
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And it will come back to them once those cases settle.
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But in a growing firm, those pre cake case costs keep spiraling.
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And how do you how do you build for that?
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.200
How do you plan for that?
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:01.759
And Is it been has it been a struggle?
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:07.519
That I will say is always a struggle.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:24.319
I don't think any PI perm ever relaxes when it comes to that because you want to make sure that you've got cash reserves to invest in the cases to make sure that you can get good results, because without the investment, you can't get the good result on the back end.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:28.319
So that definitely is some always a concern.
00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:30.880
We have a lot of credit.
00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:38.160
We also try to keep our reserves pretty high for those particular reasons.
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:44.559
And I've also built in some of the costs from an annual perspective that I know we're going to have.
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:53.440
Expert searches, I use a company that assists with that, and I can kind of estimate kind of what that's going to look like for the year.
00:22:53.599 --> 00:23:01.839
And I know that I've got them in my back pocket as far as keeping those costs at least somewhat consistent and predictable.
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:16.480
But, you know, it's always a struggle when you're wanting to do a good job and be an excellent lawyer and do right by your clients, but then also make sure you can get your bills paid today while you're waiting for those big settlements.
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:28.319
You know, one thing I heard you say is that you keep cash on reserve to cover the expenses for the next few months and to cover those ever-growing prepaid case costs.
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:34.319
And I love that because so many firms see money in the operating account and they take it out.
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:40.480
And then rent comes due, or they have to pay payroll and you know they got to put money back in.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:45.279
And that's the worst feeling in the world when you have to ask a firm owner to put money back in.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:56.400
But if you can be disciplined and set cash targets of what how much you're going to need to operate and then stick to it, then the incremental dollars that come in you can take out of the firm.
00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:14.640
And that's a lot of the hand holding that we do with firms is setting those cash targets, projecting out the forecast, and then if I can get the attorney and the ownership group to live by that, then the cash, you know, all that money that comes in is available for distribution.
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.920
Hey, before we wrap up, I want to ask you something off the wall.
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.440
I'm gonna ask you about Atlanta.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:24.319
So I've heard that the varsity is just for tourists.
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:25.599
Is that true?
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:32.079
And if so, where do you go in Atlanta or in your area for late-night food?
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:46.319
Oh well, I'm trying to think back because you know I have dodged Atlanta traffic for, let's see, I've been in Columbus maybe almost 10 years now, believe it or not.
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:47.359
So wow.
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:49.440
But I was just in Atlanta earlier today.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:50.880
So I'm back and forth all the time.
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:52.799
It's just an hour and 30 minutes.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:25:02.960
Um, first question The varsity is for anybody that likes hot dogs, French fries, and food that's not good for you, but you don't care.
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:08.559
So whether you're a tourist, doesn't that cover all the southern food?
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:09.359
Most of them.
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:10.400
It's all great.
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.599
Yes, but not good for you.
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:29.359
Um, and then as far as late night is concerned, well, I mean, the most favorite late night spot in the South, but particularly Georgia, is Waffle House.
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:30.400
Oh, yeah.
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:30.960
Okay.
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.119
I've never been there, but no, I'm just kidding.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:36.880
You're not missing a thing.
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:38.960
This has been great.
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:43.839
How can folks who want to get a hold of you or your firm get in touch with you?
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.880
Well, they can find us at our website.
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:55.839
It's www.therightlegroup.com or at any social media platform at Wright Legal for You.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:57.519
And we're here to help.
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:00.640
You can also give us a call at 8442Write.
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:08.160
And we're glad to accept your personal injury cases, VA benefits cases, probate cases.
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:12.000
And if you unfortunate to get a DUI can help you with that too.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:13.920
Katanga, thank you so much.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.119
And thank you all for tuning in to Judicial Dollars and Cents.
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:21.920
If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to like, follow, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:24.799
It helps us grow and ensures that you never miss an episode.
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.279
We'll see you next time on Judicial Dollars and Cents.
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:32.640
Thanks for joining us on Judicial Dollars and Cents presented by Anders Virtual CFO Services.
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:37.920
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00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:45.119
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00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:49.599
Until next time, keep making smart decisions that make perfect sense.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.959
Welcome to Judicial Dollars and Cents, brought to you by Anders virtual CFO services team from all across the United States.
00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:15.279
I'm John Scott, and in each episode, we'll shine a light on the financial side of the legal world, turning law firm numbers into impact-driven stories.
00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:23.280
From taxes and profitability to practice growth and leadership, we sit down with law firm innovators who are shaping the future of the profession.
00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:26.960
Let's dive in right here on Judicial Dollars and Cents.
00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:31.280
Hey, welcome back to Judicial Dollars and Cents.
00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:35.200
This is the podcast where we dive into the business side of running a law firm.
00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:48.159
I'm John Scott with Anders Virtual CFO Services for Law Firms, and each week we talk with industry experts who help law firm leaders think differently about growth, profitability, and performance so they can build practices that last.
00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:50.320
Today we welcome Katanga Wright.
00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.679
Katanga is the co-founder of the Wright Legal Group.
00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:59.200
It's a law firm serving clients throughout Columbus and Atlanta, Georgia, as well as the District of Columbia.
00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:11.120
Through her practice, she focuses on delivering strategic legal guidance and practical solutions, as well as client-centered advocacy designed to help individuals and businesses navigate through challenging legal situations.
00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:18.879
She's built her reputation around responsive communication, personalized legal strategy, and empowering clients through education and clarity.
00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:28.000
In addition to her legal work, Katanga is recognized for her leadership, community engagement, and commitment to helping clients feel informed and supported throughout the process.
00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:30.239
Katanga, welcome to the show.
00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:31.200
Thank you.
00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:33.439
I was like, Wow, is all that about me?
00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:34.879
It is.
00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:35.280
It is.
00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:37.439
You have a very unique background.
00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:43.519
And as our loyal listeners know, I love hearing about people's origin story.
00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:47.760
And I think you have some things that aren't typical for a lot of attorneys.
00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:51.359
You have a minor in science and chemistry.
00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:54.640
You have a father who was a lawyer as well.
00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:56.319
You've worked on the defense side.
00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:03.680
So tell me, what was you always destined to be a lawyer, or how did we get to here and you forming your own firm?
00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:06.480
I was certainly not destined to be a lawyer.
00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:10.879
In fact, my father encouraged me not to come to law school.
00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:17.439
And my mother was a powerful influence in my life, and she's in the medical profession.
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:21.599
And I think secretly she always wanted to go to medical school.
00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:34.400
So from about eight years old, she just kind of started drilling in me the idea of becoming a doctor and medical school, and the whole science thing was interesting to me.
00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:38.960
So she sent me to Emory to be a doctor.
00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:51.439
And after spending time at University of Alabama Medical School one summer, I saw everything that a young, aspiring doctor wants to see.
00:02:51.599 --> 00:03:01.199
I was in the ER and I saw hip replacement and I saw babies being born, and I was doing well baby visits with a local family medicine doctor.
00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:12.719
And my takeaway was the idea of it sounded good and watching was one thing, but participating was a whole nother ball game.
00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:18.960
And I decided medicine was not for me, much to my mother's dismay.
00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:31.360
But I continued on with my chemistry degree because I knew I had marketable skills coming out of school, and at least I could get a job and help pay my Emory debt that I was gonna have.
00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:41.840
And so, luckily enough, the year I was graduating, they were hiring a ton of people with science degrees at the Georgia Bureau of Investigation Crime Lab.
00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:48.400
They had gotten a big grant and were hiring uh scientists, and I was one of them.
00:03:48.639 --> 00:03:52.479
And I ended up in a forensic toxicology track.
00:03:52.719 --> 00:04:08.479
So I was studying blood and urine and investigating what type of substances may be there that affected a person's ability in whatever situation that we were asked to tackle.
00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:20.000
And that was kind of a perfect marriage between science and law because I found that my favorite part about the job was going to court and testifying as an expert witness.
00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:21.920
Wow, that's that's awesome.
00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:29.759
And sometimes uh finding out what you don't want to do, you have to do it or or be around it to figure out that that's not what you want to do.
00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:35.360
And some people force themselves to do the things that really don't fit them well, and they're miserable in life.
00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:38.000
So I'm glad you found something that you really enjoy.
00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:38.800
Oh, yeah.
00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:43.360
And COVID confirmed it when I didn't have to be in a hospital during that time.
00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:45.120
I was like, thank you, Lord.
00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:51.920
Well, we we all came out of COVID changed, and hopefully that we don't live through another one of those in our lifetime.
00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:52.480
Yeah.
00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:58.079
So tell me about your firm and what type of law do you practice?
00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:00.959
Well, I'm a trial attorney at heart.
00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:07.439
Uh, so all of our practice areas really gear toward trial and advocacy.
00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:12.639
Um, so and everything we do is because I had some background coming into it.
00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:16.720
Um, for instance, we handle a lot of personal injury cases.
00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:24.959
My first job out of law school was working for travelers insurance, doing insurance defense, representing people who I now sue.
00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:29.199
So I understand both sides of that whole industry.
00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:33.040
Uh, we also handle DUI um work.
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I tell people we represent good people who have bad days because typically my DUI clients are, you know, just had a bad night.
00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:51.839
But um, because of my experience as a forensic toxicologist, I was the scientist that was actually performing those tests and going to court and testifying.
00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:57.839
Now I'm an attorney advocating for my clients who are going through that process.
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Uh, we handle VA benefits as well because I'm a former Army spouse, and my children have benefited a lot from the VA programs that they offer.
00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:19.120
And so assisting veterans, those who have served our country, assisting them with getting the benefits they deserve is something I'm very passionate about.
00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:29.199
And then we do a lot of business-related litigation in various forms, depending on what uh just so happens to come across uh one of my clients' desks.
00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:31.199
And that's always exciting.
00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:34.639
And the last thing we do is probate related litigation.
00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:40.079
So um helping people who have lost loved ones navigate that process.
00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:56.240
So you have kind of this full service firm, a lot of different service lines, and it's great that you know both sides of a lot of those pieces of law, both the on the PI side, on the the criminal defense side, you know what the other side's thinking and where the flaws are, and you can help exploit those.
00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:57.439
That's awesome.
00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:02.959
With respect to billing methods, PI is obviously contingent on the other things.
00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:04.319
Do you do fixed fee?
00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:05.759
Do you do hourly?
00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:08.160
How do you how do you handle those fees?
00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:09.519
Great question.
00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:20.000
Um, I designed the firm um so that we could really have everything be contingency or flat rate, because I was trying to avoid the billable hour.
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Then you realize that even in a contingency or flat rate practice, you still have to keep up with your billing.
00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:41.759
So we still bill and keep up with our time on all of our cases because we need to know dollars and cents-wise, you know, if we've invested too much in a case and making sure that we're setting our flat rates accordingly.
00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:47.759
But for the most part, we are flat rate and contingency, except some of those one-off litigation files.
00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:50.480
Those are hourly uh retainer cases.
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I love the fact that you track time, even in that flat rate environment, because I have this debate all the time with the flat rate or subscription-based attorneys who don't track time.
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And the reason they did flat rate is so they wouldn't track time, but there's no way to job cost it.
00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:10.240
There's no way to judge if your flat rate is fair to both sides unless you track that time.
00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:12.240
So I applaud you for that.
00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.279
Do you utilize a case management system?
00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:21.680
I mean, you do a lot of different types of law, and there are case management systems that are good for one, but not for all.
00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:25.439
What case management system, if any, do you use in your practice?
00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:31.759
Well, I say we use a trifecta of case management uh softwares.
00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:38.960
Uh, my case kind of being the anchor of what we do and kind of all of our billing is there.
00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:40.559
That's where we invoice clients.
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Even on contingency fee cases, we put together an invoice, and that's our final bill in on our even contingency fee cases.
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So my case, along with HONA for our client communications, because we're able to automate based on where a case moves from stage to stage, particular messages that clients receive.
00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:19.279
Uh, and then we also use Lawmatics, and that's the software that also connects with my case, but it's the software we use when we are attracting and um setting appointments for potential new clients who were coming through the door.
00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:20.159
That's great.
00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:22.399
It sounds like you really have a good handle on that.
00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:26.799
Does my case feed into your accounting software?
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Yes.
00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:31.120
We utilize QuickBooks and my case and QuickBooks.
00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:43.840
And when I was selecting practice management softwares, that was a major piece that I wanted to make sure we had was the ability to integrate with a lot of different pieces of software.
00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:46.720
And my case has come a long way in that respect.
00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:51.200
And I'm very pleased with where we are with being able to integrate with things like QuickBooks.
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I always appreciate it when a case management software doesn't try and do its own accounting piece because they don't do it well.
00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:02.399
And QuickBooks does a really nice job.
00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:08.559
So a lot of them, sounds like my case has built an interface so that it can download back and forth.
00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:21.600
And it really just makes it if the case management system company stays in their lane and does a really good job on that, and then utilizes that bridge to an accounting software that does a really nice job as well.
00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:29.759
That's a much better use of their resources rather than the big behemoth in the room has created their own accounting system now.
00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:35.519
And they're gonna tout that and say, oh, leave QuickBooks, we have this, but they don't really feed it and grow it.
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:38.480
So it's not really a good solution on a long-term basis.
00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:47.759
I'm glad you said that, John, because my case did try, they have built their own accounting platform within the software.
00:10:47.919 --> 00:11:03.440
And we tried, you know, to utilize it because again, it's nice to have everything in one place, but it just doesn't match up to the functionalities and the user interface that we're used to with our current QuickBooks software.
00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:10.080
It's almost like the founder and the product development team have a checkbox that says, oh, we need an accounting piece.
00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:12.559
So then they do it and they set it to the side.
00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:19.200
They tell the world we have this accounting solution, you should use it, but it it never works out long term.
00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:21.120
What about AI?
00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:29.120
Are you embracing AI and trying to utilize it in your practice, or are you taking a slow approach to it?
00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:34.000
Oh, well, we have gone full speam ahead on AI.
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:47.440
Uh, in fact, I was in a conference a couple of weeks ago, and one of the presenters said, AI won't replace lawyers, but lawyers that use AI will replace the ones that don't.
00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:55.440
And so I have definitely embraced that philosophy with respect to embracing technology just generally speaking.
00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:02.399
So the AI piece is very exciting for us in the law firm, and my staff utilizes it as well.
00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:26.879
We um are currently our main AI vendors, Eve Legal, and they do an excellent job of, you know, giving us medical chronologies, giving us responses to motions, helping us draft discovery responses and all types of things that I was really paying an associate oftentimes to assist with the drafting piece.
00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:38.639
Now I'm able to get a drafted document that's at the review stage where I'm able to go in, make tweaks, make sure all my law cases are correct, things like that.
00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:41.039
You don't want to totally rely on AI.
00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.039
But it's just like having an associate.
00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:48.799
You wouldn't want to totally rely on uh any work that your associate would produce either.
00:12:48.960 --> 00:13:09.919
So we have definitely utilized AI in our practice, a lot of it in the business, um drafting client communications, um, doing things within our software with cloud AI, because it can actually go into your software, like in my case, and help us build workflows and things like that.
00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:12.159
So we have fully embraced it.
00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.200
So we are definitely not AI adverse.
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:21.120
I think we're trying to do our best with keeping up because I think at some point it's changing so much.
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:25.679
You know, the company we use today next year will probably be different.
00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:27.279
Probably even three months from now.
00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:30.320
And you're so right that the human element still has to be there.
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:41.919
You have to go in and review it because every once in a while it's gonna have a brain fart and give you something that doesn't make sense, but it's gonna create a lot of efficiency to allow you to work on higher level things.
00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:46.720
And I heard what you said about AI a little bit differently.
00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:56.960
I heard a speaker say that firms that embrace AI, it's going to allow smaller and mid-sized firms to compete up with the larger firms.
00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:01.200
It's gonna give them that advantage to help them compete in a bigger pond.
00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:03.759
I agree a hundred percent.
00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:08.720
So I want to switch gears a little bit back to your accounting piece.
00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:16.799
How do you in QuickBooks or with my case forecast the next 13 weeks, 12 months, three years?
00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:21.519
Do you have any processes in place to help you build that forecast?
00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:31.919
That's definitely something we probably could do a better job of, but we're looking at, you know, where we were this time last year as a guide.
00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:38.480
Uh, and then we're also looking at, well, what are our goals for this year and where are we with respect to those goals?
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:46.879
Um, we're tracking how many new cases we get um every month, and we estimate the value of those cases.
00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:50.639
So we're doing that kind of along the way as we go.
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:54.480
Uh, but we definitely could do a much better job of forecasting.
00:14:54.559 --> 00:15:16.480
But with a contingency fee practice, as you know, that becomes extremely difficult because the case comes through the door and it may be an$8,000 fee case or an$800,000 fee case, uh, which would be a really good day, but uh hard to predict sometimes on the contingency fee side.
00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:30.799
Well, I do want to challenge you a little bit on that because you know we have firms that are fully PI, and what we do is you have this inventory of cases, and you already have some of these pieces, um, and you know about what those things are worth.
00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:40.240
You're not gonna be exact, but you know a lot of MVAs and what the range of values are, and you know the milestones within the life cycle of those cases from intake to adjudication.
00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:59.440
And so what we do is we build a platform that feeds from the case management system into Excel or a Google Doc, and then the attorneys will update the life cycle of those cases, and maybe even, you know, if you thought a case was worth$8,000 and all of a sudden it's worth$150,000, they can update that.
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:08.399
And then we utilize that to forecast the next 13 weeks of cash flow, realizing that you know the type of PI case you have will be different.
00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:13.600
But MVA cases are all very similar unless there's a catastrophic event in there.
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:20.480
And then malpractice cases are different, so that's a different life cycle and different milestones and different values.
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:32.799
But once you get that, and then you get the attorneys and paralegals to update it on a monthly basis, then you have a better handle on what the value of that inventory is worth and when it might be coming in.
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:40.720
As I was listening to you, I was just thinking, I wonder how AI could help me do that process.
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:43.120
And I bet there's a way that I'm gonna be able to do that.
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:44.559
You have that software.
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:49.200
You have that software that already sends out communications at at certain milestones.
00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:50.799
So those milestones are set.
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:56.480
I I think you're you're probably pretty close to being able to forecast in that area, and AI could help with that.
00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:03.519
Um I kind of forgot what I was gonna ask you, so I'll pivot here a little bit.
00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:05.920
Uh is your father still practicing?
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:19.200
Well, my father unfortunately passed away uh in 2004, uh, 2024, and uh it was pretty unexpected, and I do miss him dearly.
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:41.759
Um, and his spirit lives on for this firm, and I'm so um happy that I had an opportunity to have this time to practice with my dad because I did never intended on coming back to Columbus, Georgia after graduating law school and, you know, getting my dream job working for, you know, the big fancy insurance company.
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:43.759
Um, and neither did he.
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:49.680
So he closed his practice after I decided not to come home initially.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:18:01.920
And then I was in a really not so big case, but we did not do such a great job because the other side ended up getting like a$1.5 million verdict.
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.480
And I'm looking at myself and I'm looking at the other side, and I'm like, I'm at the wrong counsel table.
00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:14.720
So I called my dad and I said, I think I'm gonna come home and and give uh, you know, this whole law thing a shot from the plaintiff's perspective.
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:17.839
And that's when we started the right legal group.
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:22.720
And so having the opportunity to work with him and learn from him was definitely a great experience.
00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.519
One that I didn't anticipate having, but I'm so glad I did.
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:37.519
I'm sure he was invaluable to you because he had had his own practice, and so he was able to show you some ropes, even though a lot of the things had changed, but he knew where the pitfalls were.
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:48.240
But if you think back to forming that firm, is there one or two things that you would do differently today from inception, knowing what you know now?
00:18:49.920 --> 00:19:01.200
Well, on the finance side, I started the firm with$10,000 and I watched that go like poof, the magic dragon so fast.
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:11.759
Uh so leaving my corporate job and starting the firm, I could have done a better job with a transition and a ramp up.
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:26.319
Uh, and thinking through kind of realistically what six months of a new startup firm look like from a revenue perspective and startup cost perspective.
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.200
So that was kind of where I missed the mark.
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:36.640
So we we struggled there a few years in the beginning as a result of not having good footing.
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.519
But eventually we kind of got our foundation and now we're in a lot better place.
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:46.319
But that would be the one thing that I would think right off top hand, I would be differently.
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:54.640
Yeah, once you get the flywheel of cases, either settling on the PI side or hourly billing or bills going out the door and getting cash.
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:59.519
I mean, that's a 45 to 60 day cycle on the on the fixed fee engagements.
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:03.839
And so once you get that flywheel going, it it's kind of self-sustaining.
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:05.839
How did you survive that early on?
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:07.599
Was it line of credit?
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.279
I'm a God-fearing woman.
00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:16.400
And so I'm gonna say it was really a lot of divine intervention.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:29.200
Um, I remember particularly one Christmas when I got a referral on a case, and the next thing I know, a guy brought, you know, a check for$10,000 for a case.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:32.880
I honestly didn't know how I was even gonna tackle it.
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:42.000
You know, it was something outside of my wheelhouse, so to speak, but it showed up and I actually ended up getting him a really good result.
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:52.559
But um, it was things like that that happened along the way that kept me going, despite a mother who kept insisting that I get a job.
00:20:52.960 --> 00:21:01.279
But I kept thinking about my clients, I kept thinking about the fact that I'm not a quitter, uh, that failure was not an option.
00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:09.599
And despite not having any idea a lot of weeks how I was gonna make payroll, I kept going and here we are.
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:17.680
Well, there is a ton of security in getting a paycheck from a company every two weeks, as opposed to hunting and finding and billing and collecting.
00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:22.480
So I applaud you for sticking it out and and creating a good firm, a great firm.
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:25.759
And and God did provide in your case, so that's awesome.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:34.079
Um, I do remember what I wanted to say earlier, and and it it revolves around prepaid case costs, especially in the PI world.
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:47.119
You know, I've got firms that do a lot of PI work, and they'll have a great profit for the year, but no cash because their prepaid case costs grew so much that that's their investment.
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:49.839
And it will come back to them once those cases settle.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:55.039
But in a growing firm, those pre cake case costs keep spiraling.
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.920
And how do you how do you build for that?
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.200
How do you plan for that?
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:01.759
And Is it been has it been a struggle?
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:07.519
That I will say is always a struggle.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:24.319
I don't think any PI perm ever relaxes when it comes to that because you want to make sure that you've got cash reserves to invest in the cases to make sure that you can get good results, because without the investment, you can't get the good result on the back end.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:28.319
So that definitely is some always a concern.
00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:30.880
We have a lot of credit.
00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:38.160
We also try to keep our reserves pretty high for those particular reasons.
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:44.559
And I've also built in some of the costs from an annual perspective that I know we're going to have.
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:53.440
Expert searches, I use a company that assists with that, and I can kind of estimate kind of what that's going to look like for the year.
00:22:53.599 --> 00:23:01.839
And I know that I've got them in my back pocket as far as keeping those costs at least somewhat consistent and predictable.
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:16.480
But, you know, it's always a struggle when you're wanting to do a good job and be an excellent lawyer and do right by your clients, but then also make sure you can get your bills paid today while you're waiting for those big settlements.
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:28.319
You know, one thing I heard you say is that you keep cash on reserve to cover the expenses for the next few months and to cover those ever-growing prepaid case costs.
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:34.319
And I love that because so many firms see money in the operating account and they take it out.
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:40.480
And then rent comes due, or they have to pay payroll and you know they got to put money back in.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:45.279
And that's the worst feeling in the world when you have to ask a firm owner to put money back in.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:56.400
But if you can be disciplined and set cash targets of what how much you're going to need to operate and then stick to it, then the incremental dollars that come in you can take out of the firm.
00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:14.640
And that's a lot of the hand holding that we do with firms is setting those cash targets, projecting out the forecast, and then if I can get the attorney and the ownership group to live by that, then the cash, you know, all that money that comes in is available for distribution.
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.920
Hey, before we wrap up, I want to ask you something off the wall.
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.440
I'm gonna ask you about Atlanta.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:24.319
So I've heard that the varsity is just for tourists.
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:25.599
Is that true?
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:32.079
And if so, where do you go in Atlanta or in your area for late-night food?
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:46.319
Oh well, I'm trying to think back because you know I have dodged Atlanta traffic for, let's see, I've been in Columbus maybe almost 10 years now, believe it or not.
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:47.359
So wow.
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:49.440
But I was just in Atlanta earlier today.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:50.880
So I'm back and forth all the time.
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:52.799
It's just an hour and 30 minutes.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:25:02.960
Um, first question The varsity is for anybody that likes hot dogs, French fries, and food that's not good for you, but you don't care.
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:08.559
So whether you're a tourist, doesn't that cover all the southern food?
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:09.359
Most of them.
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:10.400
It's all great.
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.599
Yes, but not good for you.
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:29.359
Um, and then as far as late night is concerned, well, I mean, the most favorite late night spot in the South, but particularly Georgia, is Waffle House.
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:30.400
Oh, yeah.
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:30.960
Okay.
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.119
I've never been there, but no, I'm just kidding.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:36.880
You're not missing a thing.
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:38.960
This has been great.
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:43.839
How can folks who want to get a hold of you or your firm get in touch with you?
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.880
Well, they can find us at our website.
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:55.839
It's www.therightlegroup.com or at any social media platform at Wright Legal for You.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:57.519
And we're here to help.
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:00.640
You can also give us a call at 8442Write.
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:08.160
And we're glad to accept your personal injury cases, VA benefits cases, probate cases.
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:12.000
And if you unfortunate to get a DUI can help you with that too.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:13.920
Katanga, thank you so much.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.119
And thank you all for tuning in to Judicial Dollars and Cents.
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:21.920
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00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:24.799
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00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.279
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00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:32.640
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00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:37.920
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00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:45.119
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00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:49.599
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