00:00:06
S1: This is a Vision Australia radio podcast. Well, I'm.
00:00:10
S2: Delighted to welcome the program show Exposed, who was Director for Health and Wellbeing for Central Australia and the series is on the line. Sri. Great to meet you. Thanks so much for your time. Hi.
00:00:21
S3: Thanks Peter. Thanks so much for having me. Now you're going to.
00:00:23
S2: Tell us about an organization that I must admit, up until a few days ago had not heard of children's Ground. Do you want to tell us a bit about how it might come about?
00:00:32
S3: Yeah, sure. So Children's Ground for Nala is a parent organization based in Zimbabwe. So here in Alice Springs, we're all first Nations led and governed. We're an organization that privileges First Nations voices. And the community itself has been the main, I guess, creator of children's ground and the whole children's ground approach that has stemmed from, you know, thousands and thousands of years of knowledge, of learning on country, of speaking around a language and all of those strengths and that knowledge that's been passed down through our elders. And that's basically how children's ground has come about. We've got a many different leaders amongst children's ground, but obviously our work as the head of health, we work across different platforms such as learning economic development, community development and cultural development and wellbeing. And so across those five platforms, this is a whole systems approach reform. So we're just trying to overhaul the whole system that works with First Nations people and kind of design our own future for our kids to try and have that generational change.
00:01:41
S2: Yeah, I love the idea about being led by those from an Indigenous background. That's obviously a very, very important thing. It's you saying what you want rather than someone saying, I think I know what's best for you.
00:01:52
S3: Yeah, that's basically what it is. It's, you know, too long have we had programs and things put in place that, you know, it's basically this is what the government or this is what the systems are telling us. This is what you need. This is the best thing for you. And we're never really part of the process. So with Children's Ground, we're across every different level of decision making where across everything that has to do anything to do with children's ground that, you know, where it's whether it's going out and delivering language out on our own country, you know, whether it's engaging in health promotion like every single step of the way, we're constantly going back to our old people and to our senior leaders and saying, what do we need? What's the best way forward? And things take time within children's ground because we have to go through the right steps, making sure we're talking to the right people. And I've really loved working here at Children's Ground because, you know, I'm an island, a woman. So obviously that cultural, that strengthening for me has been amazing, but also for my family. But also I'm seeing the benefits of me being someone who's educated in the Western way, being able to bring that in and kind of work amongst the two different ways. So it's been really great. I've really enjoyed it.
00:03:03
S2: It's good that you've got kind of both sides of the equation, if you like. You've sort of seen both sides.
00:03:07
S3: Yeah, yeah. So I, I worked as a midwife here in Alice Springs. So, you know, as someone who's worked in the system, I've seen women coming in and out, families, babies coming in like a revolving door, just current, you know, the reoccurrence of sickness and readmission and mothers and babies. And so for me, it's being in a place here that privileges cultural health, but also an ability to be able to share some of my knowledge. But I'm also learning from some of the aunties and the grandmothers. And I love going out on country and doing, you know, smoking babies and welcoming babies to country. And that's the stuff that that keeps our mob strong. The other stuff is important as well, But we're all about health prevention. You know, we're all about health prevention and promotion. So, you know, we want to give these little ones the best start while still supporting some of our old people who are, you know, now they're the ones that are facing a lot of that chronic illness and disease. And we focus a lot around social justice and access to housing and all of those things that impact our more. We put a big emphasis on that and trying to get them moving through the system as best as as we can.
00:04:15
S2: How long has children ground been around?
00:04:17
S3: So Instagram's been here since 2016. So it's it's been growing a lot in the last 12 months. The last 18 months, it's grown quite a lot in terms of staffing. We've got quite a high amount of First Nations staff children's ground, actually. We've got sites up in the Top End as well. We've got a another hub in Darwin and we work across some communities up there in Darwin and we work at it, which is the community out in West Arnhem Land and basically, you know, the First Nations mob on the ground, they're the ones that drive it, they're the ones that drive children's ground. And so this 2016 is sort of when it was established here. But, you know, like I said, this the children's ground model, it's been growing and building from, you know, thousands and thousands of years of knowledge, of wanting to put something in place that can. I guess, that focuses around our language and culture. So it's been around for a while, but definitely sort of new in terms of the organizations that are working and operating around Alice Springs.
00:05:15
S2: Sure. If you don't mind me asking your. Well, you actually you are a qualified midwife. What kind of drew you to that part of that type of profession?
00:05:25
S3: I guess I always wanted to do something in health, and I thought I was going to be a doctor, but I actually turned out I didn't like looking after sick people and my mom was interested in doing nursing and she had me very young. And so going through school, I had an interest in I heard about midwifery and I had an interest in in working with mothers and babies or so I thought. That's what the job would be quite easy, quite simple, just kind of playing with babies and, you know, dressing them up and doing things like that. But as I started to get through senior school, I started to get more of an interest in it and definitely focused my subjects on on trying to get into university. And that was, you know, since I heard about midwifery, that was what I wanted to do and couldn't change my mind. And even when I went away to uni, I dropped out. Six months later. I was only 18 and I came home and I worked. But I always maintained that I was going to finish my degree and then I had an opportunity to start work at um, as a trainee midwife. I started working out at Allura, which is the women's only health space, looking around the grandmothers law. So it was very strong back when I was training grandmothers and aunties, leading a lot of the cultural health around maternity. So I was lucky that that's how I started my career. And then kind of, yeah, grew up and then went off, travelled around, lived in different places and got some experience and you know, home always cause your back. So ended up back in Alice Springs, worked as a midwife. But like I said, you see a little bit of change but not much. You feel like you're restricted. You can't make as much of an impact working in systems that are very structured. And so this gives me an opportunity to be a bit more flexible and work in my community and feel like I'm making a difference.
00:07:04
S2: Maybe, if I may say, without, you know, saying the wrong thing, the fact that maybe you dropped out and then came back to it, it's probably helped you professionally and sort of socially as well. You're kind of a bit more rounded in your approach to things.
00:07:20
S3: Yeah, definitely. I think the more experiences that I've had and definitely as a midwife, but also it's very it's kind of lonely in that profession, and especially in Alice Springs. There was only two of us that were training. And so in terms of like support for practitioners that are Aboriginal, it's kind of there's the only, I guess, supported role as an Aboriginal health practitioner, which was known as an Aboriginal health worker back then. So they were, you know, getting plenty of support. You could do it in a in a group of 4 or 5 people and feel really supported, whereas it was kind of just me and one other who was studying. And so it's a very sort of lonely, isolating position. But once you get to that position, it's you kind of get elevated quite quickly. So because you're the only Aboriginal midwife, you become the expert in all things Aboriginal and all things midwifery. So I kind of got thrust into things and I had an interest in birthing on country and landed a job working on the national project. And that's kind of where I got into a bit more of my advocacy space. So I do a lot of that at Children's Ground, and I feel like Children's Ground has a lot of the values that I've kept and learnt through my career. So I've been really lucky to be able to come to an organization that values, I guess, some of those things that I value as well.
00:08:30
S2: So that's one of the things that interested me. Your special interest in birthing on country. Can you kind of explain that a bit more? Yeah.
00:08:37
S3: So birthing on country, I guess it's, it's not a physical concept, although for many, like especially for us out here, it could be, but it's more sort of it's around trying to make sure that every woman in an Aboriginal baby has access to culturally safe and culturally responsive maternity care. And so that birthing on country looks different to every person. It's making sure that the woman feels comfortable in having an Aboriginal midwife or an Aboriginal caretaker, being able to make the decisions that you want to make and making sure that it's within a cultural framework as little or as much as people want. So we're all about we're doing the same thing at Children's Ground. We're talking to women about their I guess how can we how can we strengthen the culture of supporting women's health as well as we want to support fathers alongside their roles as well? So women and mothers and, you know, birthing on country, for me, it's it's an idea that all women should have the choice to birth somewhere where they feel safe with feeling like they're able to make decisions. But it's all having that cultural wrap around. So making sure that you're having those things that can give you that cultural strength throughout your pregnancy before you're pregnant, throughout your pregnancy, once you have your baby and then again, you know, through your lifespan. So it's following that woman all the way through her life. So birthing on country is fairly new concept that I'm starting to talk about with my mom over here. But it's something that we we've thought, you know, this is something that we want. This is something that we can advocate for. But what does? It look like for us. And that's the thing about birthing on country and also the way Children's grand operates is what works for the one community looks completely different for another. So it's all about providing different options and letting them lead it and have ownership of that moving forward. Sure.
00:10:20
S2: So obviously, I'm no expert in this area, but having that safe environment, I mean, that would not just be a physical thing, but kind of an emotional, psychological mental health thing, both for the mother and the child or the family and the child.
00:10:32
S3: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I mean, hospital is a safe place for women to have babies, you know, physically, if there are things that go wrong, Sure. You know, things can be identified, then that's the safest place for women to be, especially if they have high risk conditions that require them to be in hospital as well as baby. But, you know, when we think about health, we think about that holistic view of a person's health and we think about their, you know, their emotional health. We think about the spiritual health we have. A big part of that gives us, I guess, a sense of belonging and a sense of purpose, which is that Aboriginal identity. And for us, that's we need to keep that strong. So that's for our cultural wellbeing. That needs to be the thing that's strong and you can have as little of that as in in a hospital or a Western system because it's not a system that's been designed for us. It's a system that's been put in place and we've been, you know, back in the 50, 60, 70 80s, we were banned from places like hospitals were very segregated. You know, we spoke to women at consultations where women were not allowed to birth in hospitals and had to birth, you know, outside the hospital. And so those experiences of racism and discrimination, that's what people hold. And so systems like a hospital system, like an education system, those things, they have just a general sort of fear for Aboriginal people. So we're trying to make it so that women can feel strong enough and empowered, that they can go along to these different services and engage in services and feel like they're able to make decisions. And if women need to be in hospital to have their babies, then we will encourage it. But also we understand that women have been having babies for years. We're trying to change the way that people's health is in that, you know, obviously we talk about closing the gap. I like that start of life. Like let's let's start it at the start of life, like that first 2000 days, Like let's get these babies that are being born. Let's get them nice and strong and healthy so that we don't get to that end of life. And there is no gap to close. But also knowing that, you know, like we've set the bar now saying that we've got to close the gap. But, you know, we've got some really great strong elders and, you know, talk about Native Creek, but we've got some really great, powerful, strong elders that are leading the way that are, you know, although they are they do have a lot of different health problems. They're still out there. They can still speak. They still speak for country for law and they're still leading the way. And so having them part of our consultations is really important. But obviously, yeah, that cultural health is so much more the physical health is important, but you've got to paint that complete picture for someone. You can't fix the front door while the house is burning down. Like, I don't know the euphemism, but I just made that up. But you know, it's that kind of thing of we're making things better in one aspect of their life while something else is suffering. So we need to look at the whole picture to make them completely, you know, feeling good 100% sure.
00:13:07
S2: It's been a pleasure to speak to you. Thanks so much for your time.
00:13:10
S3: No worries. Thanks for having me.
00:13:11
S2: Peter, That's a sherry who's the head of Health and Wellbeing in Central Australia. That is a fascinating interview talking about children's Ground.
00:13:22
S1: Thanks for listening to this Virgin Australia radio podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your preferred podcast platform. Visit Radio org for more.
00:13:33
S4: Vision Australia.
00:13:34
S5: Radio Blindness. Low Vision.
00:13:36
S6: Opportunity.
S1: This is a Vision Australia radio podcast. Well, I'm.
00:00:10
S2: Delighted to welcome the program show Exposed, who was Director for Health and Wellbeing for Central Australia and the series is on the line. Sri. Great to meet you. Thanks so much for your time. Hi.
00:00:21
S3: Thanks Peter. Thanks so much for having me. Now you're going to.
00:00:23
S2: Tell us about an organization that I must admit, up until a few days ago had not heard of children's Ground. Do you want to tell us a bit about how it might come about?
00:00:32
S3: Yeah, sure. So Children's Ground for Nala is a parent organization based in Zimbabwe. So here in Alice Springs, we're all first Nations led and governed. We're an organization that privileges First Nations voices. And the community itself has been the main, I guess, creator of children's ground and the whole children's ground approach that has stemmed from, you know, thousands and thousands of years of knowledge, of learning on country, of speaking around a language and all of those strengths and that knowledge that's been passed down through our elders. And that's basically how children's ground has come about. We've got a many different leaders amongst children's ground, but obviously our work as the head of health, we work across different platforms such as learning economic development, community development and cultural development and wellbeing. And so across those five platforms, this is a whole systems approach reform. So we're just trying to overhaul the whole system that works with First Nations people and kind of design our own future for our kids to try and have that generational change.
00:01:41
S2: Yeah, I love the idea about being led by those from an Indigenous background. That's obviously a very, very important thing. It's you saying what you want rather than someone saying, I think I know what's best for you.
00:01:52
S3: Yeah, that's basically what it is. It's, you know, too long have we had programs and things put in place that, you know, it's basically this is what the government or this is what the systems are telling us. This is what you need. This is the best thing for you. And we're never really part of the process. So with Children's Ground, we're across every different level of decision making where across everything that has to do anything to do with children's ground that, you know, where it's whether it's going out and delivering language out on our own country, you know, whether it's engaging in health promotion like every single step of the way, we're constantly going back to our old people and to our senior leaders and saying, what do we need? What's the best way forward? And things take time within children's ground because we have to go through the right steps, making sure we're talking to the right people. And I've really loved working here at Children's Ground because, you know, I'm an island, a woman. So obviously that cultural, that strengthening for me has been amazing, but also for my family. But also I'm seeing the benefits of me being someone who's educated in the Western way, being able to bring that in and kind of work amongst the two different ways. So it's been really great. I've really enjoyed it.
00:03:03
S2: It's good that you've got kind of both sides of the equation, if you like. You've sort of seen both sides.
00:03:07
S3: Yeah, yeah. So I, I worked as a midwife here in Alice Springs. So, you know, as someone who's worked in the system, I've seen women coming in and out, families, babies coming in like a revolving door, just current, you know, the reoccurrence of sickness and readmission and mothers and babies. And so for me, it's being in a place here that privileges cultural health, but also an ability to be able to share some of my knowledge. But I'm also learning from some of the aunties and the grandmothers. And I love going out on country and doing, you know, smoking babies and welcoming babies to country. And that's the stuff that that keeps our mob strong. The other stuff is important as well, But we're all about health prevention. You know, we're all about health prevention and promotion. So, you know, we want to give these little ones the best start while still supporting some of our old people who are, you know, now they're the ones that are facing a lot of that chronic illness and disease. And we focus a lot around social justice and access to housing and all of those things that impact our more. We put a big emphasis on that and trying to get them moving through the system as best as as we can.
00:04:15
S2: How long has children ground been around?
00:04:17
S3: So Instagram's been here since 2016. So it's it's been growing a lot in the last 12 months. The last 18 months, it's grown quite a lot in terms of staffing. We've got quite a high amount of First Nations staff children's ground, actually. We've got sites up in the Top End as well. We've got a another hub in Darwin and we work across some communities up there in Darwin and we work at it, which is the community out in West Arnhem Land and basically, you know, the First Nations mob on the ground, they're the ones that drive it, they're the ones that drive children's ground. And so this 2016 is sort of when it was established here. But, you know, like I said, this the children's ground model, it's been growing and building from, you know, thousands and thousands of years of knowledge, of wanting to put something in place that can. I guess, that focuses around our language and culture. So it's been around for a while, but definitely sort of new in terms of the organizations that are working and operating around Alice Springs.
00:05:15
S2: Sure. If you don't mind me asking your. Well, you actually you are a qualified midwife. What kind of drew you to that part of that type of profession?
00:05:25
S3: I guess I always wanted to do something in health, and I thought I was going to be a doctor, but I actually turned out I didn't like looking after sick people and my mom was interested in doing nursing and she had me very young. And so going through school, I had an interest in I heard about midwifery and I had an interest in in working with mothers and babies or so I thought. That's what the job would be quite easy, quite simple, just kind of playing with babies and, you know, dressing them up and doing things like that. But as I started to get through senior school, I started to get more of an interest in it and definitely focused my subjects on on trying to get into university. And that was, you know, since I heard about midwifery, that was what I wanted to do and couldn't change my mind. And even when I went away to uni, I dropped out. Six months later. I was only 18 and I came home and I worked. But I always maintained that I was going to finish my degree and then I had an opportunity to start work at um, as a trainee midwife. I started working out at Allura, which is the women's only health space, looking around the grandmothers law. So it was very strong back when I was training grandmothers and aunties, leading a lot of the cultural health around maternity. So I was lucky that that's how I started my career. And then kind of, yeah, grew up and then went off, travelled around, lived in different places and got some experience and you know, home always cause your back. So ended up back in Alice Springs, worked as a midwife. But like I said, you see a little bit of change but not much. You feel like you're restricted. You can't make as much of an impact working in systems that are very structured. And so this gives me an opportunity to be a bit more flexible and work in my community and feel like I'm making a difference.
00:07:04
S2: Maybe, if I may say, without, you know, saying the wrong thing, the fact that maybe you dropped out and then came back to it, it's probably helped you professionally and sort of socially as well. You're kind of a bit more rounded in your approach to things.
00:07:20
S3: Yeah, definitely. I think the more experiences that I've had and definitely as a midwife, but also it's very it's kind of lonely in that profession, and especially in Alice Springs. There was only two of us that were training. And so in terms of like support for practitioners that are Aboriginal, it's kind of there's the only, I guess, supported role as an Aboriginal health practitioner, which was known as an Aboriginal health worker back then. So they were, you know, getting plenty of support. You could do it in a in a group of 4 or 5 people and feel really supported, whereas it was kind of just me and one other who was studying. And so it's a very sort of lonely, isolating position. But once you get to that position, it's you kind of get elevated quite quickly. So because you're the only Aboriginal midwife, you become the expert in all things Aboriginal and all things midwifery. So I kind of got thrust into things and I had an interest in birthing on country and landed a job working on the national project. And that's kind of where I got into a bit more of my advocacy space. So I do a lot of that at Children's Ground, and I feel like Children's Ground has a lot of the values that I've kept and learnt through my career. So I've been really lucky to be able to come to an organization that values, I guess, some of those things that I value as well.
00:08:30
S2: So that's one of the things that interested me. Your special interest in birthing on country. Can you kind of explain that a bit more? Yeah.
00:08:37
S3: So birthing on country, I guess it's, it's not a physical concept, although for many, like especially for us out here, it could be, but it's more sort of it's around trying to make sure that every woman in an Aboriginal baby has access to culturally safe and culturally responsive maternity care. And so that birthing on country looks different to every person. It's making sure that the woman feels comfortable in having an Aboriginal midwife or an Aboriginal caretaker, being able to make the decisions that you want to make and making sure that it's within a cultural framework as little or as much as people want. So we're all about we're doing the same thing at Children's Ground. We're talking to women about their I guess how can we how can we strengthen the culture of supporting women's health as well as we want to support fathers alongside their roles as well? So women and mothers and, you know, birthing on country, for me, it's it's an idea that all women should have the choice to birth somewhere where they feel safe with feeling like they're able to make decisions. But it's all having that cultural wrap around. So making sure that you're having those things that can give you that cultural strength throughout your pregnancy before you're pregnant, throughout your pregnancy, once you have your baby and then again, you know, through your lifespan. So it's following that woman all the way through her life. So birthing on country is fairly new concept that I'm starting to talk about with my mom over here. But it's something that we we've thought, you know, this is something that we want. This is something that we can advocate for. But what does? It look like for us. And that's the thing about birthing on country and also the way Children's grand operates is what works for the one community looks completely different for another. So it's all about providing different options and letting them lead it and have ownership of that moving forward. Sure.
00:10:20
S2: So obviously, I'm no expert in this area, but having that safe environment, I mean, that would not just be a physical thing, but kind of an emotional, psychological mental health thing, both for the mother and the child or the family and the child.
00:10:32
S3: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I mean, hospital is a safe place for women to have babies, you know, physically, if there are things that go wrong, Sure. You know, things can be identified, then that's the safest place for women to be, especially if they have high risk conditions that require them to be in hospital as well as baby. But, you know, when we think about health, we think about that holistic view of a person's health and we think about their, you know, their emotional health. We think about the spiritual health we have. A big part of that gives us, I guess, a sense of belonging and a sense of purpose, which is that Aboriginal identity. And for us, that's we need to keep that strong. So that's for our cultural wellbeing. That needs to be the thing that's strong and you can have as little of that as in in a hospital or a Western system because it's not a system that's been designed for us. It's a system that's been put in place and we've been, you know, back in the 50, 60, 70 80s, we were banned from places like hospitals were very segregated. You know, we spoke to women at consultations where women were not allowed to birth in hospitals and had to birth, you know, outside the hospital. And so those experiences of racism and discrimination, that's what people hold. And so systems like a hospital system, like an education system, those things, they have just a general sort of fear for Aboriginal people. So we're trying to make it so that women can feel strong enough and empowered, that they can go along to these different services and engage in services and feel like they're able to make decisions. And if women need to be in hospital to have their babies, then we will encourage it. But also we understand that women have been having babies for years. We're trying to change the way that people's health is in that, you know, obviously we talk about closing the gap. I like that start of life. Like let's let's start it at the start of life, like that first 2000 days, Like let's get these babies that are being born. Let's get them nice and strong and healthy so that we don't get to that end of life. And there is no gap to close. But also knowing that, you know, like we've set the bar now saying that we've got to close the gap. But, you know, we've got some really great strong elders and, you know, talk about Native Creek, but we've got some really great, powerful, strong elders that are leading the way that are, you know, although they are they do have a lot of different health problems. They're still out there. They can still speak. They still speak for country for law and they're still leading the way. And so having them part of our consultations is really important. But obviously, yeah, that cultural health is so much more the physical health is important, but you've got to paint that complete picture for someone. You can't fix the front door while the house is burning down. Like, I don't know the euphemism, but I just made that up. But you know, it's that kind of thing of we're making things better in one aspect of their life while something else is suffering. So we need to look at the whole picture to make them completely, you know, feeling good 100% sure.
00:13:07
S2: It's been a pleasure to speak to you. Thanks so much for your time.
00:13:10
S3: No worries. Thanks for having me.
00:13:11
S2: Peter, That's a sherry who's the head of Health and Wellbeing in Central Australia. That is a fascinating interview talking about children's Ground.
00:13:22
S1: Thanks for listening to this Virgin Australia radio podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your preferred podcast platform. Visit Radio org for more.
00:13:33
S4: Vision Australia.
00:13:34
S5: Radio Blindness. Low Vision.
00:13:36
S6: Opportunity.
