WEBVTT
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:09.199
Welcome to Inside ABA Cares, your behind the scenes space where we lay the foundation and set expectations on who you'll meet this August.
00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:15.519
We treat communication as if it's a soft skill, or worse, like it's something that you're just born with.
00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:19.199
And some people have it and some people don't, and that's the end of the story.
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:45.520
And then when we watch teams fall apart, one ignored conversation at a time, the RBTs who stopped showing up because they've advocated for change in their schedule or client and they're repeatedly ignored, or the BCBA who quit because there was no transparent communication and they didn't know what was going on, or clinical disagreements that turned personal because there was resentment just bubbling up over time.
00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:53.759
And so today, my guest is bringing their keynote to ABA Care's called Empathetic Leadership and Courageous Conversations.
00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.560
She is back with us by popular demand.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:03.600
Damona Hoffman is a TV casting director, turned the world's first relationship expert.
00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:19.519
She's the first official relationship expert on the Drew Barrymore show, a regular on NPR, and Access Daily, a columnist for the LA Times and Washington Post, and the best-selling author of F the Fairy Tale.
00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:23.760
She has consulted for OKCupid, Match, Bumble, J Date.
00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:36.560
She has spent two decades studying how people actually communicate in Hollywood casting rooms in the early days of online dating in data behind apps used by millions of people.
00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:39.599
And now she brings the work to corporate stages.
00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:41.280
Demona, welcome.
00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:44.879
Before we get into it, I want the audience to hear it from you.
00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:52.719
How does a TV casting director end up as a person companies go to when their teams just can't talk to each other anymore?
00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:58.239
Well, as you said in the intro, in the fabulous, well-written intro, thank you so much, Holly Beth.
00:01:58.319 --> 00:01:59.760
It's been a long journey.
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.480
I've been on this path for nearly two decades.
00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:11.120
But what I found when I originally was a casting director, I used to teach classes for actors in marketing and audition techniques.
00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:17.680
And this was before anyone was talking about personal branding, before social media was the thing.
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:26.639
And I found that there was a disconnect between what people thought they were saying in their headshots that they were submitting for roles.
00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:32.719
And then once they got in the room, there was so much that happened before they even went to their audition.
00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:36.159
There was an exchange that happened that sometimes was losing people jobs.
00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:40.879
And so when I was doing that, at the same time, I was online dating.
00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:43.199
And I said, Well, this is the same thing.
00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:45.840
A dating profile photo is a headshot.
00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.000
A first date is always an audition.
00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:57.199
So once I started applying what I was learning professionally to my online dating experience, I ended up meeting the man who's still my husband today.
00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:01.360
And people started coming to me for my secrets with online dating.
00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:04.960
And what I realized is that it's all storytelling.
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:10.879
It's all in both the nonverbal storytelling, like your picture is speaking a thousand words.
00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:13.199
We've all heard that adage a million times.
00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:21.199
And then in the room, the communication that you have that builds that initial connection is really important.
00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:30.159
So after doing the online dating coaching for 15 years, I started to realize that these challenges of communication.
00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:34.400
And we're going to get into also the way that digital communication shifted this.
00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:45.199
And that was my deep learning as the official expert at OKCupid and creating content for match and all of the apps that I work behind the scenes at.
00:03:45.439 --> 00:04:06.639
I realized that there's just so much disconnection and lack of clarity on the way that we are communicating, that this was something that I had to start offering to companies, to teams, to organizations that were really feeling that disconnect in a painful and often costly way.
00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:10.319
So many different use cases for this, for interviewing.
00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:23.920
A lot of interviews are now happening over Zoom or for team meetings, and everybody is so focused on all the minute things that you might miss when you're in person, but on camera, a camera doesn't really lie, it catches everything.
00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:28.319
And so I'm so excited to dive in and we'll get into all of that later.
00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:37.680
Something I picked up on reading your book was this idea that the actors who booked the job aren't the ones trying to be someone else.
00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:41.519
The authenticity really beats perfection.
00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:49.120
And so I wanted to hear a little bit more about how that shows up when you're watching and observing a team leader to give them feedback.
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:55.439
Well, it's interesting because a lot of team leaders were once employees, practitioners.
00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:56.959
They were in a different role.
00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:02.319
So many times we wear the clothes, not literally, but figuratively.
00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:06.480
Sometimes literally, but we wear the clothes of our prior role.
00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:23.439
And then we do not realize as we've stepped into this leadership role, that the way that we present ourselves, the perception that others have of us, changes just by nature of the fact that you now have that title of leader, owner, operator, CEO.
00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:26.720
That adds a level of intimidation.
00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:29.360
It adds a level of disconnection.
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:38.639
And it sometimes is not in alignment with the self-image that you had when you were wearing a different.
00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:40.959
I have noticed that myself.
00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:50.800
And I always thought maybe it was from having autism that every level I moved up in a role came with a different communication roles.
00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:59.600
And so if I'm hearing you right, that is not just autistic specific, that it does happen in communication in general.
00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:00.879
Is that is that what you're saying?
00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:19.279
Thank you for bringing up that layer of neurodiversity because sometimes we also forget that our employees, our teams are coming to the table with so many different experiences and so many different lenses that they're perceiving through.
00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:33.120
So I'm really excited to be at this ABA care summit because we can really dive into the nuances of how to use that understanding when you are trying to reach someone on your team.
00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:39.439
I got really excited when you sent the abstract because I do hear this being a pain point for everyone.
00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:46.079
And you've reframed yourself from a dating coach to communication futurist.
00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:52.639
What were you watching that told you that the work was bigger than dating and that expanded?
00:06:52.879 --> 00:07:02.800
Well, I found that a lot of people became frustrated with online dating about, let's call it five years ago, when that other little thing happened that forced us all inside of our homes.
00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:16.639
And I realized that the dating app was the tool, and people were getting really frustrated with the tool because it wasn't bringing them the result that they had wanted or maybe that they experienced in the past.
00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:23.680
And as I began to look at the data and dive deeper in, I realized that it really wasn't about the tool.
00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:28.480
It was that people were feeling this massive sense of disconnection.
00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:42.319
And that disconnection, it was coming through because we all of a sudden had to go from face-to-face communication, which is what most of our training and most of our experience had been about for all of our lives.
00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.639
All of a sudden, now 90% of our communication has moved digital.
00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:54.000
And that's the written word, which our bodies, our minds did not evolve to only understand the written word.
00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:55.839
So we lost context.
00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:59.839
And then you mentioned this a moment ago with being on camera.
00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.000
People were not used to being on camera.
00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:18.639
Suddenly, we are not only looking at another human through a lens and trying to connect with them, but what's happening right now, Holly Beth, as I'm sitting here talking to you, I'm trying to focus on you, but here I am on the other side of the screen.
00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.759
And so we also became very self-conscious.
00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:33.120
When you're so hyper-aware of yourself, that changes the way that you are presenting information and your ability to connect with someone on the other side of the screen.
00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:35.120
So that's where the nugget started.
00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:44.639
ABA Cares is one of the organizations where I saw how this was happening in practice with a lot of the uh leaders that I spoke with there.
00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:50.159
And I've spoken with so many organizations and realized that this problem is universal.
00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:54.159
It is not related to dating, it is not related to one industry.
00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:58.159
It is something that is really plaguing people worldwide.
00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:03.679
There's not a lot of data that is out there in the world that focuses on communication and relationships.
00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:09.279
And so I'm curious what data points you were looking at that showed that disconnect.
00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:16.879
Well, the benefit of working behind the scenes at OKCupid, which honestly, we know it today as a dating app.
00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:22.879
What I actually look at it as is the most comprehensive study in human behavior that's ever been completed.
00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:28.720
Because OKCupid celebrated their, I think they're now on 12 years.
00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:30.960
And no, no, no, that can't be right.
00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:32.559
22 years.
00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:33.519
There we go.
00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:35.519
But they don't look a day over 12.
00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:48.639
So uh OKCupid originally started out with these data nerds that were like, let's see what people think, let's see what people believe, and we'll put out these questions that assess people's thoughts.
00:09:48.799 --> 00:10:00.559
So OKCupid was built on these matching questions where we could ask anything that they could have an opinion on and use that as a filter for matching.
00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:12.799
And so we could see over the last 20 years how people had changing attitudes around politics, how people had changing attitudes around what they were looking for, what they were open to.
00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:19.519
And so that is something that as I was writing F the Fairy Tale, I was really steeped in that data.
00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:31.679
But I started to see more of a divide around many of these social issues and also around how people were interacting with the app.
00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:39.120
And that's a big thing that we haven't yet discussed is how the speed of communication changed so dramatically.
00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.600
So people started optimizing for efficiency.
00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.960
And then, of course, now also AI entered the chat.
00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:55.840
And it has been a big disruptor, not just in how people get their job done, but how people are communicating.
00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:00.720
So people started using AI to write their messages for them.
00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:08.240
People started hedging their bets, cutting and pasting, because we could also see how many keystrokes go into somebody's message back.
00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:15.600
And so there were changes in the way that people were connecting and also in what they believed at the same time.
00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:21.840
And then the rise of social media as well, which is a factor in any workplace.
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:32.559
We can't ignore that we are getting pummeled with content, with information, with hacks, with just any kind of distractions all day long.
00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:39.440
And then that is layered on top of your inbox is full, your Slack messages are pinging all the time.
00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:40.799
Also text messages.
00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:45.039
Now we also have communication happening on multiple channels.
00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:48.159
And that is something that we can't roll the clock back on.
00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:52.720
So we have to figure out how to harness it to our benefit before it swallows us alive.
00:11:53.120 --> 00:12:03.919
I was having a conversation about when did influencers start dictating how we feel about our job or about the science or what we work in and how we react to things.
00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:15.279
And as I'm processing through that and I'm processing through hearing what you just said, I wonder if we're at some sort of stage where we're depleted of thinking and making decisions.
00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:21.519
And so we rely on other things to tell us how we're supposed to feel with relationships, including AI and how we respond.
00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:24.159
So where do we go from here, Demona?
00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:27.519
It's a really astute observation, Holly Beth.
00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:29.440
You're absolutely right.
00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:33.279
We are in a critical communication burnout.
00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:35.360
I call it the communication crisis.
00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:36.960
That's what I spoke on last time.
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:46.080
And the challenge is that Prince Charming is not coming to save us, or our political leaders, or anyone, that we have to do this ourselves.
00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:52.320
And I know there's a lot of pressure on the leaders that are going to be at ABA Care's summit.
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:55.759
And there are a lot of decisions that have to be made.
00:12:55.919 --> 00:13:17.360
And so the more efficient we can get with decision making, and the more that we can empower people to take ownership of their sphere of genius, the less we have to overfunction and push through burnout to get to a place of feeling productive, feeling satisfied, feeling connected.
00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:28.240
And, you know, a lot of it, I actually think starts with building moments of presence for yourself and your team, like moments where you're not doing 10 things at once.
00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:34.320
Even with social media, there was some recent data that came out that said people are on social media, they're not doing one thing.
00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:35.840
They're not just on social media.
00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:41.279
They're scrolling and watching TV, they're scrolling and working, they're scrolling and driving, God forbid.
00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:43.120
And so we're constantly distracted.
00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:49.840
So we have to create those moments of presence and we have to create space for empathetic leadership and listening.
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:55.200
And then we also have to figure out how we best communicate.
00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:57.600
What is our communication code?
00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:08.639
Because a lot of times we're having to code switch our communication to meet someone else, especially in intergenerational workforces, uh cross-cultural workforces, hybrid.
00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:14.159
Some people are virtual, some people are in person, certain days of the week.
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:21.600
And all of that has created a massive amount of of work to just have communication.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:28.320
And the underlying force beneath all of that is building a sense of community.
00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:36.559
That is truly why we all feel so burnout, because we are seeking community in going to all of these apps that are telling us how we should feel.
00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:48.559
The leaders who are throwing the parties and trying to get people who don't get along in the same room together to go bowling or paint or whatever are on the right track of knowing there's a disconnect and that there's a fracture.
00:14:48.799 --> 00:15:01.519
But beyond being able to say, let's just take a break and have fun, um, they don't really know how to really start mending the relationships and setting it up for better clarity or better belonging.
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:08.720
And so what would you recommend to somebody who is kind of stuck in that loop and doesn't know what else to do?
00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:11.440
I love a good bowling party as much as the next gal.
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:20.000
However, there are unspoken rules in a professional environment that prevent us from feeling like we can just have fun.
00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:29.919
So in a work environment, you have to create some guardrails to guide people on what is the outcome of the experience they're having.
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:34.480
People have so many things, as we just said, that are vying for their time and attention.
00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:40.639
They're like, why would I go bowling with my coworkers if I could go bowling with my friends?
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:41.919
What is the point?
00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:46.480
So making sure that anytime you gather community, there's a goal.
00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:52.879
The goal is not just let's connect, but there is a clear and defined goal.
00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:55.039
I don't have to tell you this.
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:58.399
Some people are not great in a group setting.
00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:05.200
Some people, I'm married to an introvert and I'm like, hi, extrovert, and we'll go to a party together.
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:08.399
I come home and I'm like, I'm totally wired.
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:09.840
I cannot go to sleep.
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:18.159
He is completely drained because and it's not like he doesn't like people, but all of those interactions affect him very differently, right?
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:28.559
So if he goes in with the intention of I'm having one or two one-on-one conversations, he likes to have a few deep conversations.
00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:36.320
I like to work the room, and we both know our communication style and our communication codes, then we can both leave feeling successful.
00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:41.600
I mean, he's still gonna go immediately to sleep and I'm still gonna stay up and do a million things.
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:51.360
But at least then we don't feel like we've gone beyond where our comfort zone is, and we also get that need for community met.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:54.080
I think I would be hanging out with Seth afterwards.
00:16:54.159 --> 00:17:05.599
We'd both be facing different ways and not communicating to each other and be perfectly happy because I'm I'm in that boat and just thinking about you being a butterfly and uh working the room makes me anxious.
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:07.279
Don't worry, I'm fine.
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.920
Um, because you are you are going to a few parties at care.
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.880
So I just want to make sure we're we're you check with you afterwards.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:17.680
But no, I I hear what you're saying and I and I respect I respect how you're setting that up.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:20.240
And it leads me to think about what you said earlier.
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.240
We all need this kind of communication code.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:34.880
And when you originally said it, I was thinking we need an organizational communication code, and maybe you still do mean that, but how does the company take into the fact all these different individuals who are there?
00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:40.799
Yeah, you're exactly right that you do need a code of conduct for the company.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.079
Like, are you a company that uses Slack?
00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:46.480
Are you a company that uses Teams?
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:48.319
Let's let's hope not.
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.599
So, you know, the the tech stack is one element of it.
00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:56.880
And then also the culture around how it is used.
00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:06.000
The other thing that happened in the last 15 or so years is this always on, as everyone got phones in their pocket.
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:11.519
Then the workday bled into every other part of our day.
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:18.160
And so that's where we get the disconnection, we get the distraction because it's never off.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:23.759
So it's really important for leaders to also consider that and create that container.
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:28.880
Like you may say, oh, well, I got through my my day and I saw all my clients.
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:35.599
And so eight o'clock at night is when I have time to do all of this follow-up or ask questions of my team.
00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:40.319
And you're you're firing off emails at eight and nine and 10.
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:46.799
And then how that is being received by your team, because remember, you're wearing a different suit now.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:48.240
You're in a different role.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.960
So now they receive that at 10 p.m.
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:53.359
and think, wait, do I need to respond to that?
00:18:53.599 --> 00:19:09.839
So even just putting in small safeguards like no emails after this time and use schedulers to set your communication for the next time so that you don't give someone a heart attack as they're going to bed thinking that they need to respond to something.
00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:13.039
And that's the sort of overall umbrella.
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:21.680
But then when you're in connection with individuals, it's everyone's responsibility to know how they communicate best.
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:27.519
It doesn't necessarily mean that you're always going to modulate to their communication style.
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.920
And when I say style, I mean verbal, nonverbal, and digital.
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:41.119
But you can at least be aware of how they are communicating and you can have moments of clarification built in.
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.640
I see this a lot with intergenerational workspaces.
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.400
Quite literally, we are speaking different languages.
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:59.359
And so an emoji might mean something to one person and it means something completely different to someone younger, someone of a different cultural background.
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:11.680
So getting agreement on how even emojis are used or which platforms are most effective for your communication can really save you a lot of strife down the road.
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:16.079
I want to touch on the clarity part of this.
00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:21.920
We are in a work environment and in communication often comes requests.
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:30.319
And so if you are getting a request, sometimes an email, sometimes it lives on Teams, or sometimes it lives in a quick text.
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:38.400
It is hard to track all of those communications and clarity, I feel like gets lost in some way.
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:43.759
Do you advise certain parameters around what certain channels are used for?
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:45.759
Yeah, I do recommend that.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:21:00.480
And again, it is dependent on your own cultural code of conduct within the organization, but having that universal understanding is really important for people to know how to operate within it.
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:06.559
And it's funny because speaking at CARES, I know a lot of people there know this.
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:16.799
And we know it, we practice it a lot in our face-to-face conversations because that's where we learned it and that's where we have the most practice in it.
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:20.400
But then sometimes we forget as we move to the digital space.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:22.079
Well, the same is also true.
00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.440
Like I need agreement, I need confirmation that you understand me.
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:29.920
I need you to repeat back that this means the same thing to both of us.
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:34.799
I need to have clarity on when things are being completed.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:47.680
And so having that code developed in whether it's an another app that you use or whether it's just a certain kind of agreement, that is what makes people feel supported and successful.
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.359
Because no one wants to feel like they're failing at a job.
00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:54.880
No one wants to feel like they're not meeting your expectations.
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:58.960
And that doesn't get the most motivated individual on your team.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:01.200
And I know there's also challenges.
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:10.079
You and other leaders I spoke to when I was here a couple of years ago said that retention is a really big challenge in this industry, right?
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:31.599
So that's why bringing that empathetic piece to leadership and one of the most empathetic and compassionate things you can do is to make yourself clear and make sure that you have mutual understanding so that when you're communicating to someone, it's really clear what they can do to be successful and to be on the same page as you.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:44.319
Have you ever been to a party where you're talking to somebody and you know that they're hearing your words so they can somewhat respond, but it's almost like they're scanning the room to see who else they need to talk to those people.
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:55.599
I kind of feel like that's what is happening with AI when you ask when you're communicating with your colleagues and you get a response back and it's clearly AI, you're like, are you present with me?
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:56.880
I don't know where you're at.
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:58.319
Pretty sure you weren't here.
00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:03.279
So Claude or chat might be clear, but it still creates problems in the communication.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:04.160
It's interesting.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:13.359
AI has been obviously the biggest disruptor in many aspects of the last few years, but definitely in communication.
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:31.279
Unpopular opinion I actually believe that AI, when integrated ethically, can reduce a lot of friction and eliminate that static, that constant distraction and overwhelm from your team.
00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:57.839
So ultimately it depends on what the communication is about, but if it's the kind of communication that doesn't necessarily require a emotional undercurrent to it, if it is logistical communication, I wonder, Holly Beth, I'm going to turn it around on you, I wonder if it's just the fact that you feel it came from AI, or is it the fact that you don't trust it?
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:03.119
What is missing in that communication for you when that happens?
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:10.000
So I'm a user of AI, but as a reader of AI, I feel like there's more words.
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:16.400
And because it's so much for me to decipher already in terms of communication, some of it is easier, right?
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:17.519
It's not as emotional.
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:23.279
So it takes care of that for me, but it does add extra words that I have to use to process.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:28.240
So when I'm working with AI, I will also let it know some things I know about the reader.
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:31.039
This reader has oppositional defiance.
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:38.799
This this reader need has autism and needs it to be clearly steps and visually appealing and things like that.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:45.680
And so when I use AI, I kind of cater to that, but as a reader I'm not sure that other people are catering to how my brain works.
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:47.279
It's just a wall of words.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.400
And so I feel disconnected through the wall of words of AI.
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:57.440
So it's more of that not necessarily distrust but more of the fact that I'm feeling like I'm being talked at if that makes sense.
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:11.279
So what would happen in that context if you turned it into a dialogue where it wasn't just that one message but then you can give feedback like clarify this can you can you simplify this for me?
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:27.839
And instead of having the reaction which is totally normal to have that reaction of like speak English to me, then it becomes an opportunity for dialogue about your communication code because that's really what you describe to me is your your personal communication code.
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:34.079
And then that person has the opportunity to learn you better and to learn your communication code more clearly.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:39.680
This is really cool to be in a one-on-one coaching experience with Dimona.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:26:00.319
Is this kind of the stuff that you go over and that you talk about because you are making me think about it in a different way and that's one thing but you're also making me think about what can I do on my side like what can I own and how can I change maybe my perception or my relationship with that in order to better connect with the person on the other side.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.160
And that's what I got out of your questions.
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:10.400
And I'm not avoiding your questions but I I just wanted to call that out and and ask is this kind of part of the work that somebody has to do.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:22.160
A hundred percent and you didn't avoid my question and you leaned into that beautifully because I do see that AI itself brings up this fear of the unknown.
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:31.920
It's not what AI is now I feel like that people are afraid of it's what AI is rapidly becoming or what it could become in the future.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:45.200
And we forget that we still have the human quotient to be able to still interact and we're we're in control of the AI still at this point.
00:26:45.519 --> 00:27:12.000
So we meet it where it's at and especially when it comes to communications with people on your team, people that you communicate with regularly because you have no control obviously over how someone communicates with you from outside and if this is a one-time interaction but I'm really interested in those deeper long-term relationships and how to rebuild that sense of trust in your communication there.
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:31.119
Because AI we know is not going away and the thing is it's becoming even more integrated into how we communicate for example with the Apple update I think it was about a year ago they started doing these AI summaries of your text messages.
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:40.480
And so when you get the text message and you can turn this feature off you may have noticed it'll try to shortcut for you and tell you this is what they're trying to say.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:45.680
And I found myself at the beginning getting really frustrated with the summary.
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:50.480
I'd read the summary and I'd be like oh my gosh they said that I can't believe it.
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:58.400
You know, and then I would actually open the message and look at the message and read it and that's not what the person was actually saying at all.
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:10.160
But it's that first response to the communication that we have that then colors how we interact with that person next and how we perceive what they've said.
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:23.200
So if we're in a heightened state and even here's a tangible exercise that everyone can do right now, you need to also have a code for when you are interacting with certain information.
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:29.119
So maybe there's someone on your team that you always get activated when you're talking to them.
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:49.200
If you are in between other meetings or you are about to go into a big a big presentation and you need to have upbeat energy and you have to be accessible and excited and empathetic and you know that every time that person has something to say to you, your energy drops.
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.880
Don't open that email before you go into that meeting.
00:28:53.039 --> 00:29:23.680
So maybe you have a separate inbox for them, you have a separate tag for them, you have a way to filter or a time set aside where you can go through your text messages, your emails in a clean and clear state of mind because once you get a message and you're in an activated state, you're going to read that message and react to that message in the state that you're in without regard to the intent that the person sent the message with.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:39.519
I took so much out of that the first thing being calling my emotion an activation because it allows me to say hey something's happening and I should pay attention to that versus just yep, I'm angry, which is more of an acceptance than being more vulnerable looking at it.
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:41.119
It's also great advice.
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:43.119
And so I appreciate it.
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:55.759
I'm I'm curious when somebody is activated by conversation, how much do you recommend that they are coached or not coached by AI to say, hey, how should I respond to this?
00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:07.920
Because when I'm and what I'm asking Damona just to be clear is like for the leader who has to give some uncomfortable feedback where there needs to be maybe some sensitivity and they need support, how does that end up working out for them?
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:20.160
If you are using AI as a training tool for yourself or a sounding board it's important that you use the AI in in a way that's activating the same part of your brain.
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:38.480
So what I mean by that is you will have a different experience if you are having a a dialogue like you are speaking and activating the speech centers of your brain you are speaking to the AI and having an auditory dialogue than if you are just typing it.
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:48.559
That conversation may go differently if you are using the tool in the framework of how you're going to have that conversation later.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:31:01.440
And if you do use I had a client the other day who did use AI to dialogue and figure out how to communicate from a less activated place.
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:07.279
She tended to sound very aggressive in the language and the tone that she was using.
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:55.359
So she consulted with AI to find language that felt softer and more approachable but she made the mistake of telling the person she was speaking to that she had used AI to help her find the words and there is a a point in time coming where I think that it will be assumed that we are communicating through AI in a way like using AI integrated like with the text example even just responding in your email there's all of those canned responses just pick one yes thank you and that's becoming more integrated into our communication predictive text all of that but at this moment in time what it does if you disclose that is it makes you seem less authentic.
00:31:55.519 --> 00:32:03.759
And that's a really big piece of this empathetic leadership is that you have to present authenticity to receive authenticity back.
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:14.799
And it almost gives it almost gives permission to distrust essentially it is a huge signal of these aren't really my words and I was clearly struggling with communicating with you.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.759
Like I had to get help to talk to you.
00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:23.759
And so there's some vulnerability in that but I could see where it does not signal the right thing.
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:36.720
And so I want to switch gears a little bit before we wrap up here to talk about something that you speak about which is replacing assumption with articulation avoidance with accountability.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:43.599
And so for the leader who knows that they're doing maybe the first half of both those things, what's your advice to them?
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:56.240
Well, the first part of it is kind of what we were talking about earlier with getting clarity, not leaving it at the first message of I am overwhelmed by this and I don't understand any of it.
00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:17.359
Not taking it on to say now I have to decipher all of this myself and possibly come to the wrong conclusion or come back in a state of activation where I'm not going to respond from an empathetic place and to do that extra step of asking for clarification.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:27.920
If you're in a synchronous face-to-face or phone conversation.
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.400
Like I want to make sure I'm being clear.
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:48.319
Can you tell me what you heard from what I just said and then you have agreement because we are so we are so stretched to the optimization and speed breaking point that sometimes we don't take the time to do that.
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:54.240
We think oh we have to get back with with patients and clients and we don't I've I'm just gonna let it go.
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:57.440
And we don't name it, we don't address it.
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:01.440
And then that disconnection gets amplified.
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:10.719
So we're really seeking understanding and making sure we're clearly articulating and not just assuming that we understand.
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:14.079
The second part of that is oh man avoidance.
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:22.960
You got triggered earlier I kind of felt I started sweating when you said avoidance because this is kind of my soapbox right now.
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:30.719
I'm very disappointed in the block and delete culture that we're in the I will just ignore and move on.
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:35.280
I don't want to deal with the discomfort in this conversation.
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:37.440
So I'll, you know what I'll just find another role.
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:41.119
And then we go and repeat the same patterns somewhere else.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:53.599
So it's really important right now, especially with all the layers we've talked about with AI and the communication crisis and the volume and speed of connection for us to all take accountability.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:35:14.800
You're gonna say the wrong thing sometimes you're going to have conversations that make you feel activated and just starting out with owning that we are all learning even as behavioral health professionals we are also still learning how to communicate and connect.
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:16.000
We're always learning.
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:26.800
The minute I stop learning that I'm done I'm done I want to be learning this this is my life's work to learn how to be the best communicator and connector that I can be.
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:30.960
And I feel like for anyone in this field, that should be a driver.
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:43.119
Maybe it's not your number one driver but that should be a driver of why you're doing the work that you're doing to be the best communicator yourself and then to help your patients and your teams become the best communicator.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:53.679
And the best way for a leader to get everyone else on their team to get on board with that is to start with their own accountability for the areas that they need growth in.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:01.440
It's crucial because the job that we're doing in here is to help others learn how to connect with the world around them, right?
00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:06.639
And that's typically the hardest thing for autistics is to communicate and to connect.
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:23.199
And if we're in an industry that has disconnected with each other, how are we going to begin to be able to manage the connections for others if we're simply just blocking and deleting and taking no accountability it becomes easy to get into that pattern.
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:28.639
So I appreciate that call out because it is really important and it should be our focus.
00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:41.519
And so I really appreciate the fact that you're coming back into the ABA cares community as an outsider looking in what did you learn about the industry that others can't see wow.
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:52.639
That is such a great question Hollybeth I learned that the ABA cares community is really ready to dive in my talks are very interactive.
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:57.039
They're not like a sit back and listen and think about it and take notes.
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:08.960
They're a let's get in the sandbox and let's play with it because the way that we get these tools into practice is by actually living them, putting them in our bodies putting them into practice.
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:15.199
And so that's what you can come to expect from the next time I'm joining you in August.
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:27.119
But I learned that even as someone who is a professional in this field, that there is growth that can be had around communication and connection.
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:36.880
And who better to do that than someone that was driven into this field to be able to help people with communication and connection.
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:47.599
So I'm ready to get back in the sandbox and play with all of you and and help us feel really re energized for that goal or whatever goal it was that drove you into this line of work.
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:52.719
You bring a lot of improv and ways to connect just live and watching it and you feel it in the room.
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:54.639
So thank you for your time today.
00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:59.760
I appreciate it and we'll see you in Boston or people will see you on the other side of the live stream.
00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:01.199
Thanks Damona I can't wait.
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:01.920
Thanks for having me
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:09.199
Welcome to Inside ABA Cares, your behind the scenes space where we lay the foundation and set expectations on who you'll meet this August.
00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:15.519
We treat communication as if it's a soft skill, or worse, like it's something that you're just born with.
00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:19.199
And some people have it and some people don't, and that's the end of the story.
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:45.520
And then when we watch teams fall apart, one ignored conversation at a time, the RBTs who stopped showing up because they've advocated for change in their schedule or client and they're repeatedly ignored, or the BCBA who quit because there was no transparent communication and they didn't know what was going on, or clinical disagreements that turned personal because there was resentment just bubbling up over time.
00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:53.759
And so today, my guest is bringing their keynote to ABA Care's called Empathetic Leadership and Courageous Conversations.
00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.560
She is back with us by popular demand.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:03.600
Damona Hoffman is a TV casting director, turned the world's first relationship expert.
00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:19.519
She's the first official relationship expert on the Drew Barrymore show, a regular on NPR, and Access Daily, a columnist for the LA Times and Washington Post, and the best-selling author of F the Fairy Tale.
00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:23.760
She has consulted for OKCupid, Match, Bumble, J Date.
00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:36.560
She has spent two decades studying how people actually communicate in Hollywood casting rooms in the early days of online dating in data behind apps used by millions of people.
00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:39.599
And now she brings the work to corporate stages.
00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:41.280
Demona, welcome.
00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:44.879
Before we get into it, I want the audience to hear it from you.
00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:52.719
How does a TV casting director end up as a person companies go to when their teams just can't talk to each other anymore?
00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:58.239
Well, as you said in the intro, in the fabulous, well-written intro, thank you so much, Holly Beth.
00:01:58.319 --> 00:01:59.760
It's been a long journey.
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.480
I've been on this path for nearly two decades.
00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:11.120
But what I found when I originally was a casting director, I used to teach classes for actors in marketing and audition techniques.
00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:17.680
And this was before anyone was talking about personal branding, before social media was the thing.
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:26.639
And I found that there was a disconnect between what people thought they were saying in their headshots that they were submitting for roles.
00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:32.719
And then once they got in the room, there was so much that happened before they even went to their audition.
00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:36.159
There was an exchange that happened that sometimes was losing people jobs.
00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:40.879
And so when I was doing that, at the same time, I was online dating.
00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:43.199
And I said, Well, this is the same thing.
00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:45.840
A dating profile photo is a headshot.
00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.000
A first date is always an audition.
00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:57.199
So once I started applying what I was learning professionally to my online dating experience, I ended up meeting the man who's still my husband today.
00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:01.360
And people started coming to me for my secrets with online dating.
00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:04.960
And what I realized is that it's all storytelling.
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:10.879
It's all in both the nonverbal storytelling, like your picture is speaking a thousand words.
00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:13.199
We've all heard that adage a million times.
00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:21.199
And then in the room, the communication that you have that builds that initial connection is really important.
00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:30.159
So after doing the online dating coaching for 15 years, I started to realize that these challenges of communication.
00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:34.400
And we're going to get into also the way that digital communication shifted this.
00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:45.199
And that was my deep learning as the official expert at OKCupid and creating content for match and all of the apps that I work behind the scenes at.
00:03:45.439 --> 00:04:06.639
I realized that there's just so much disconnection and lack of clarity on the way that we are communicating, that this was something that I had to start offering to companies, to teams, to organizations that were really feeling that disconnect in a painful and often costly way.
00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:10.319
So many different use cases for this, for interviewing.
00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:23.920
A lot of interviews are now happening over Zoom or for team meetings, and everybody is so focused on all the minute things that you might miss when you're in person, but on camera, a camera doesn't really lie, it catches everything.
00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:28.319
And so I'm so excited to dive in and we'll get into all of that later.
00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:37.680
Something I picked up on reading your book was this idea that the actors who booked the job aren't the ones trying to be someone else.
00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:41.519
The authenticity really beats perfection.
00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:49.120
And so I wanted to hear a little bit more about how that shows up when you're watching and observing a team leader to give them feedback.
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:55.439
Well, it's interesting because a lot of team leaders were once employees, practitioners.
00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:56.959
They were in a different role.
00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:02.319
So many times we wear the clothes, not literally, but figuratively.
00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:06.480
Sometimes literally, but we wear the clothes of our prior role.
00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:23.439
And then we do not realize as we've stepped into this leadership role, that the way that we present ourselves, the perception that others have of us, changes just by nature of the fact that you now have that title of leader, owner, operator, CEO.
00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:26.720
That adds a level of intimidation.
00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:29.360
It adds a level of disconnection.
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:38.639
And it sometimes is not in alignment with the self-image that you had when you were wearing a different.
00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:40.959
I have noticed that myself.
00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:50.800
And I always thought maybe it was from having autism that every level I moved up in a role came with a different communication roles.
00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:59.600
And so if I'm hearing you right, that is not just autistic specific, that it does happen in communication in general.
00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:00.879
Is that is that what you're saying?
00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:19.279
Thank you for bringing up that layer of neurodiversity because sometimes we also forget that our employees, our teams are coming to the table with so many different experiences and so many different lenses that they're perceiving through.
00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:33.120
So I'm really excited to be at this ABA care summit because we can really dive into the nuances of how to use that understanding when you are trying to reach someone on your team.
00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:39.439
I got really excited when you sent the abstract because I do hear this being a pain point for everyone.
00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:46.079
And you've reframed yourself from a dating coach to communication futurist.
00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:52.639
What were you watching that told you that the work was bigger than dating and that expanded?
00:06:52.879 --> 00:07:02.800
Well, I found that a lot of people became frustrated with online dating about, let's call it five years ago, when that other little thing happened that forced us all inside of our homes.
00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:16.639
And I realized that the dating app was the tool, and people were getting really frustrated with the tool because it wasn't bringing them the result that they had wanted or maybe that they experienced in the past.
00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:23.680
And as I began to look at the data and dive deeper in, I realized that it really wasn't about the tool.
00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:28.480
It was that people were feeling this massive sense of disconnection.
00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:42.319
And that disconnection, it was coming through because we all of a sudden had to go from face-to-face communication, which is what most of our training and most of our experience had been about for all of our lives.
00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.639
All of a sudden, now 90% of our communication has moved digital.
00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:54.000
And that's the written word, which our bodies, our minds did not evolve to only understand the written word.
00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:55.839
So we lost context.
00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:59.839
And then you mentioned this a moment ago with being on camera.
00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.000
People were not used to being on camera.
00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:18.639
Suddenly, we are not only looking at another human through a lens and trying to connect with them, but what's happening right now, Holly Beth, as I'm sitting here talking to you, I'm trying to focus on you, but here I am on the other side of the screen.
00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.759
And so we also became very self-conscious.
00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:33.120
When you're so hyper-aware of yourself, that changes the way that you are presenting information and your ability to connect with someone on the other side of the screen.
00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:35.120
So that's where the nugget started.
00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:44.639
ABA Cares is one of the organizations where I saw how this was happening in practice with a lot of the uh leaders that I spoke with there.
00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:50.159
And I've spoken with so many organizations and realized that this problem is universal.
00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:54.159
It is not related to dating, it is not related to one industry.
00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:58.159
It is something that is really plaguing people worldwide.
00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:03.679
There's not a lot of data that is out there in the world that focuses on communication and relationships.
00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:09.279
And so I'm curious what data points you were looking at that showed that disconnect.
00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:16.879
Well, the benefit of working behind the scenes at OKCupid, which honestly, we know it today as a dating app.
00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:22.879
What I actually look at it as is the most comprehensive study in human behavior that's ever been completed.
00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:28.720
Because OKCupid celebrated their, I think they're now on 12 years.
00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:30.960
And no, no, no, that can't be right.
00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:32.559
22 years.
00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:33.519
There we go.
00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:35.519
But they don't look a day over 12.
00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:48.639
So uh OKCupid originally started out with these data nerds that were like, let's see what people think, let's see what people believe, and we'll put out these questions that assess people's thoughts.
00:09:48.799 --> 00:10:00.559
So OKCupid was built on these matching questions where we could ask anything that they could have an opinion on and use that as a filter for matching.
00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:12.799
And so we could see over the last 20 years how people had changing attitudes around politics, how people had changing attitudes around what they were looking for, what they were open to.
00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:19.519
And so that is something that as I was writing F the Fairy Tale, I was really steeped in that data.
00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:31.679
But I started to see more of a divide around many of these social issues and also around how people were interacting with the app.
00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:39.120
And that's a big thing that we haven't yet discussed is how the speed of communication changed so dramatically.
00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.600
So people started optimizing for efficiency.
00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.960
And then, of course, now also AI entered the chat.
00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:55.840
And it has been a big disruptor, not just in how people get their job done, but how people are communicating.
00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:00.720
So people started using AI to write their messages for them.
00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:08.240
People started hedging their bets, cutting and pasting, because we could also see how many keystrokes go into somebody's message back.
00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:15.600
And so there were changes in the way that people were connecting and also in what they believed at the same time.
00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:21.840
And then the rise of social media as well, which is a factor in any workplace.
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:32.559
We can't ignore that we are getting pummeled with content, with information, with hacks, with just any kind of distractions all day long.
00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:39.440
And then that is layered on top of your inbox is full, your Slack messages are pinging all the time.
00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:40.799
Also text messages.
00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:45.039
Now we also have communication happening on multiple channels.
00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:48.159
And that is something that we can't roll the clock back on.
00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:52.720
So we have to figure out how to harness it to our benefit before it swallows us alive.
00:11:53.120 --> 00:12:03.919
I was having a conversation about when did influencers start dictating how we feel about our job or about the science or what we work in and how we react to things.
00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:15.279
And as I'm processing through that and I'm processing through hearing what you just said, I wonder if we're at some sort of stage where we're depleted of thinking and making decisions.
00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:21.519
And so we rely on other things to tell us how we're supposed to feel with relationships, including AI and how we respond.
00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:24.159
So where do we go from here, Demona?
00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:27.519
It's a really astute observation, Holly Beth.
00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:29.440
You're absolutely right.
00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:33.279
We are in a critical communication burnout.
00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:35.360
I call it the communication crisis.
00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:36.960
That's what I spoke on last time.
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:46.080
And the challenge is that Prince Charming is not coming to save us, or our political leaders, or anyone, that we have to do this ourselves.
00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:52.320
And I know there's a lot of pressure on the leaders that are going to be at ABA Care's summit.
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:55.759
And there are a lot of decisions that have to be made.
00:12:55.919 --> 00:13:17.360
And so the more efficient we can get with decision making, and the more that we can empower people to take ownership of their sphere of genius, the less we have to overfunction and push through burnout to get to a place of feeling productive, feeling satisfied, feeling connected.
00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:28.240
And, you know, a lot of it, I actually think starts with building moments of presence for yourself and your team, like moments where you're not doing 10 things at once.
00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:34.320
Even with social media, there was some recent data that came out that said people are on social media, they're not doing one thing.
00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:35.840
They're not just on social media.
00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:41.279
They're scrolling and watching TV, they're scrolling and working, they're scrolling and driving, God forbid.
00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:43.120
And so we're constantly distracted.
00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:49.840
So we have to create those moments of presence and we have to create space for empathetic leadership and listening.
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:55.200
And then we also have to figure out how we best communicate.
00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:57.600
What is our communication code?
00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:08.639
Because a lot of times we're having to code switch our communication to meet someone else, especially in intergenerational workforces, uh cross-cultural workforces, hybrid.
00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:14.159
Some people are virtual, some people are in person, certain days of the week.
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:21.600
And all of that has created a massive amount of of work to just have communication.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:28.320
And the underlying force beneath all of that is building a sense of community.
00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:36.559
That is truly why we all feel so burnout, because we are seeking community in going to all of these apps that are telling us how we should feel.
00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:48.559
The leaders who are throwing the parties and trying to get people who don't get along in the same room together to go bowling or paint or whatever are on the right track of knowing there's a disconnect and that there's a fracture.
00:14:48.799 --> 00:15:01.519
But beyond being able to say, let's just take a break and have fun, um, they don't really know how to really start mending the relationships and setting it up for better clarity or better belonging.
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:08.720
And so what would you recommend to somebody who is kind of stuck in that loop and doesn't know what else to do?
00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:11.440
I love a good bowling party as much as the next gal.
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:20.000
However, there are unspoken rules in a professional environment that prevent us from feeling like we can just have fun.
00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:29.919
So in a work environment, you have to create some guardrails to guide people on what is the outcome of the experience they're having.
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:34.480
People have so many things, as we just said, that are vying for their time and attention.
00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:40.639
They're like, why would I go bowling with my coworkers if I could go bowling with my friends?
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:41.919
What is the point?
00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:46.480
So making sure that anytime you gather community, there's a goal.
00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:52.879
The goal is not just let's connect, but there is a clear and defined goal.
00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:55.039
I don't have to tell you this.
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:58.399
Some people are not great in a group setting.
00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:05.200
Some people, I'm married to an introvert and I'm like, hi, extrovert, and we'll go to a party together.
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:08.399
I come home and I'm like, I'm totally wired.
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:09.840
I cannot go to sleep.
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:18.159
He is completely drained because and it's not like he doesn't like people, but all of those interactions affect him very differently, right?
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:28.559
So if he goes in with the intention of I'm having one or two one-on-one conversations, he likes to have a few deep conversations.
00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:36.320
I like to work the room, and we both know our communication style and our communication codes, then we can both leave feeling successful.
00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:41.600
I mean, he's still gonna go immediately to sleep and I'm still gonna stay up and do a million things.
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:51.360
But at least then we don't feel like we've gone beyond where our comfort zone is, and we also get that need for community met.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:54.080
I think I would be hanging out with Seth afterwards.
00:16:54.159 --> 00:17:05.599
We'd both be facing different ways and not communicating to each other and be perfectly happy because I'm I'm in that boat and just thinking about you being a butterfly and uh working the room makes me anxious.
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:07.279
Don't worry, I'm fine.
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.920
Um, because you are you are going to a few parties at care.
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.880
So I just want to make sure we're we're you check with you afterwards.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:17.680
But no, I I hear what you're saying and I and I respect I respect how you're setting that up.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:20.240
And it leads me to think about what you said earlier.
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.240
We all need this kind of communication code.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:34.880
And when you originally said it, I was thinking we need an organizational communication code, and maybe you still do mean that, but how does the company take into the fact all these different individuals who are there?
00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:40.799
Yeah, you're exactly right that you do need a code of conduct for the company.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.079
Like, are you a company that uses Slack?
00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:46.480
Are you a company that uses Teams?
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:48.319
Let's let's hope not.
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.599
So, you know, the the tech stack is one element of it.
00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:56.880
And then also the culture around how it is used.
00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:06.000
The other thing that happened in the last 15 or so years is this always on, as everyone got phones in their pocket.
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:11.519
Then the workday bled into every other part of our day.
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:18.160
And so that's where we get the disconnection, we get the distraction because it's never off.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:23.759
So it's really important for leaders to also consider that and create that container.
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:28.880
Like you may say, oh, well, I got through my my day and I saw all my clients.
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:35.599
And so eight o'clock at night is when I have time to do all of this follow-up or ask questions of my team.
00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:40.319
And you're you're firing off emails at eight and nine and 10.
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:46.799
And then how that is being received by your team, because remember, you're wearing a different suit now.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:48.240
You're in a different role.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.960
So now they receive that at 10 p.m.
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:53.359
and think, wait, do I need to respond to that?
00:18:53.599 --> 00:19:09.839
So even just putting in small safeguards like no emails after this time and use schedulers to set your communication for the next time so that you don't give someone a heart attack as they're going to bed thinking that they need to respond to something.
00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:13.039
And that's the sort of overall umbrella.
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:21.680
But then when you're in connection with individuals, it's everyone's responsibility to know how they communicate best.
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:27.519
It doesn't necessarily mean that you're always going to modulate to their communication style.
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.920
And when I say style, I mean verbal, nonverbal, and digital.
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:41.119
But you can at least be aware of how they are communicating and you can have moments of clarification built in.
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.640
I see this a lot with intergenerational workspaces.
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.400
Quite literally, we are speaking different languages.
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:59.359
And so an emoji might mean something to one person and it means something completely different to someone younger, someone of a different cultural background.
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:11.680
So getting agreement on how even emojis are used or which platforms are most effective for your communication can really save you a lot of strife down the road.
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:16.079
I want to touch on the clarity part of this.
00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:21.920
We are in a work environment and in communication often comes requests.
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:30.319
And so if you are getting a request, sometimes an email, sometimes it lives on Teams, or sometimes it lives in a quick text.
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:38.400
It is hard to track all of those communications and clarity, I feel like gets lost in some way.
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:43.759
Do you advise certain parameters around what certain channels are used for?
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:45.759
Yeah, I do recommend that.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:21:00.480
And again, it is dependent on your own cultural code of conduct within the organization, but having that universal understanding is really important for people to know how to operate within it.
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:06.559
And it's funny because speaking at CARES, I know a lot of people there know this.
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:16.799
And we know it, we practice it a lot in our face-to-face conversations because that's where we learned it and that's where we have the most practice in it.
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:20.400
But then sometimes we forget as we move to the digital space.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:22.079
Well, the same is also true.
00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.440
Like I need agreement, I need confirmation that you understand me.
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:29.920
I need you to repeat back that this means the same thing to both of us.
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:34.799
I need to have clarity on when things are being completed.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:47.680
And so having that code developed in whether it's an another app that you use or whether it's just a certain kind of agreement, that is what makes people feel supported and successful.
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.359
Because no one wants to feel like they're failing at a job.
00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:54.880
No one wants to feel like they're not meeting your expectations.
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:58.960
And that doesn't get the most motivated individual on your team.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:01.200
And I know there's also challenges.
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:10.079
You and other leaders I spoke to when I was here a couple of years ago said that retention is a really big challenge in this industry, right?
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:31.599
So that's why bringing that empathetic piece to leadership and one of the most empathetic and compassionate things you can do is to make yourself clear and make sure that you have mutual understanding so that when you're communicating to someone, it's really clear what they can do to be successful and to be on the same page as you.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:44.319
Have you ever been to a party where you're talking to somebody and you know that they're hearing your words so they can somewhat respond, but it's almost like they're scanning the room to see who else they need to talk to those people.
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:55.599
I kind of feel like that's what is happening with AI when you ask when you're communicating with your colleagues and you get a response back and it's clearly AI, you're like, are you present with me?
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:56.880
I don't know where you're at.
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:58.319
Pretty sure you weren't here.
00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:03.279
So Claude or chat might be clear, but it still creates problems in the communication.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:04.160
It's interesting.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:13.359
AI has been obviously the biggest disruptor in many aspects of the last few years, but definitely in communication.
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:31.279
Unpopular opinion I actually believe that AI, when integrated ethically, can reduce a lot of friction and eliminate that static, that constant distraction and overwhelm from your team.
00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:57.839
So ultimately it depends on what the communication is about, but if it's the kind of communication that doesn't necessarily require a emotional undercurrent to it, if it is logistical communication, I wonder, Holly Beth, I'm going to turn it around on you, I wonder if it's just the fact that you feel it came from AI, or is it the fact that you don't trust it?
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:03.119
What is missing in that communication for you when that happens?
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:10.000
So I'm a user of AI, but as a reader of AI, I feel like there's more words.
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:16.400
And because it's so much for me to decipher already in terms of communication, some of it is easier, right?
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:17.519
It's not as emotional.
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:23.279
So it takes care of that for me, but it does add extra words that I have to use to process.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:28.240
So when I'm working with AI, I will also let it know some things I know about the reader.
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:31.039
This reader has oppositional defiance.
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:38.799
This this reader need has autism and needs it to be clearly steps and visually appealing and things like that.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:45.680
And so when I use AI, I kind of cater to that, but as a reader I'm not sure that other people are catering to how my brain works.
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:47.279
It's just a wall of words.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.400
And so I feel disconnected through the wall of words of AI.
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:57.440
So it's more of that not necessarily distrust but more of the fact that I'm feeling like I'm being talked at if that makes sense.
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:11.279
So what would happen in that context if you turned it into a dialogue where it wasn't just that one message but then you can give feedback like clarify this can you can you simplify this for me?
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:27.839
And instead of having the reaction which is totally normal to have that reaction of like speak English to me, then it becomes an opportunity for dialogue about your communication code because that's really what you describe to me is your your personal communication code.
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:34.079
And then that person has the opportunity to learn you better and to learn your communication code more clearly.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:39.680
This is really cool to be in a one-on-one coaching experience with Dimona.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:26:00.319
Is this kind of the stuff that you go over and that you talk about because you are making me think about it in a different way and that's one thing but you're also making me think about what can I do on my side like what can I own and how can I change maybe my perception or my relationship with that in order to better connect with the person on the other side.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.160
And that's what I got out of your questions.
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:10.400
And I'm not avoiding your questions but I I just wanted to call that out and and ask is this kind of part of the work that somebody has to do.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:22.160
A hundred percent and you didn't avoid my question and you leaned into that beautifully because I do see that AI itself brings up this fear of the unknown.
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:31.920
It's not what AI is now I feel like that people are afraid of it's what AI is rapidly becoming or what it could become in the future.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:45.200
And we forget that we still have the human quotient to be able to still interact and we're we're in control of the AI still at this point.
00:26:45.519 --> 00:27:12.000
So we meet it where it's at and especially when it comes to communications with people on your team, people that you communicate with regularly because you have no control obviously over how someone communicates with you from outside and if this is a one-time interaction but I'm really interested in those deeper long-term relationships and how to rebuild that sense of trust in your communication there.
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:31.119
Because AI we know is not going away and the thing is it's becoming even more integrated into how we communicate for example with the Apple update I think it was about a year ago they started doing these AI summaries of your text messages.
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:40.480
And so when you get the text message and you can turn this feature off you may have noticed it'll try to shortcut for you and tell you this is what they're trying to say.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:45.680
And I found myself at the beginning getting really frustrated with the summary.
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:50.480
I'd read the summary and I'd be like oh my gosh they said that I can't believe it.
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:58.400
You know, and then I would actually open the message and look at the message and read it and that's not what the person was actually saying at all.
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:10.160
But it's that first response to the communication that we have that then colors how we interact with that person next and how we perceive what they've said.
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:23.200
So if we're in a heightened state and even here's a tangible exercise that everyone can do right now, you need to also have a code for when you are interacting with certain information.
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:29.119
So maybe there's someone on your team that you always get activated when you're talking to them.
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:49.200
If you are in between other meetings or you are about to go into a big a big presentation and you need to have upbeat energy and you have to be accessible and excited and empathetic and you know that every time that person has something to say to you, your energy drops.
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.880
Don't open that email before you go into that meeting.
00:28:53.039 --> 00:29:23.680
So maybe you have a separate inbox for them, you have a separate tag for them, you have a way to filter or a time set aside where you can go through your text messages, your emails in a clean and clear state of mind because once you get a message and you're in an activated state, you're going to read that message and react to that message in the state that you're in without regard to the intent that the person sent the message with.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:39.519
I took so much out of that the first thing being calling my emotion an activation because it allows me to say hey something's happening and I should pay attention to that versus just yep, I'm angry, which is more of an acceptance than being more vulnerable looking at it.
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:41.119
It's also great advice.
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:43.119
And so I appreciate it.
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:55.759
I'm I'm curious when somebody is activated by conversation, how much do you recommend that they are coached or not coached by AI to say, hey, how should I respond to this?
00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:07.920
Because when I'm and what I'm asking Damona just to be clear is like for the leader who has to give some uncomfortable feedback where there needs to be maybe some sensitivity and they need support, how does that end up working out for them?
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:20.160
If you are using AI as a training tool for yourself or a sounding board it's important that you use the AI in in a way that's activating the same part of your brain.
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:38.480
So what I mean by that is you will have a different experience if you are having a a dialogue like you are speaking and activating the speech centers of your brain you are speaking to the AI and having an auditory dialogue than if you are just typing it.
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:48.559
That conversation may go differently if you are using the tool in the framework of how you're going to have that conversation later.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:31:01.440
And if you do use I had a client the other day who did use AI to dialogue and figure out how to communicate from a less activated place.
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:07.279
She tended to sound very aggressive in the language and the tone that she was using.
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:55.359
So she consulted with AI to find language that felt softer and more approachable but she made the mistake of telling the person she was speaking to that she had used AI to help her find the words and there is a a point in time coming where I think that it will be assumed that we are communicating through AI in a way like using AI integrated like with the text example even just responding in your email there's all of those canned responses just pick one yes thank you and that's becoming more integrated into our communication predictive text all of that but at this moment in time what it does if you disclose that is it makes you seem less authentic.
00:31:55.519 --> 00:32:03.759
And that's a really big piece of this empathetic leadership is that you have to present authenticity to receive authenticity back.
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:14.799
And it almost gives it almost gives permission to distrust essentially it is a huge signal of these aren't really my words and I was clearly struggling with communicating with you.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.759
Like I had to get help to talk to you.
00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:23.759
And so there's some vulnerability in that but I could see where it does not signal the right thing.
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:36.720
And so I want to switch gears a little bit before we wrap up here to talk about something that you speak about which is replacing assumption with articulation avoidance with accountability.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:43.599
And so for the leader who knows that they're doing maybe the first half of both those things, what's your advice to them?
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:56.240
Well, the first part of it is kind of what we were talking about earlier with getting clarity, not leaving it at the first message of I am overwhelmed by this and I don't understand any of it.
00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:17.359
Not taking it on to say now I have to decipher all of this myself and possibly come to the wrong conclusion or come back in a state of activation where I'm not going to respond from an empathetic place and to do that extra step of asking for clarification.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:27.920
If you're in a synchronous face-to-face or phone conversation.
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.400
Like I want to make sure I'm being clear.
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:48.319
Can you tell me what you heard from what I just said and then you have agreement because we are so we are so stretched to the optimization and speed breaking point that sometimes we don't take the time to do that.
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:54.240
We think oh we have to get back with with patients and clients and we don't I've I'm just gonna let it go.
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:57.440
And we don't name it, we don't address it.
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:01.440
And then that disconnection gets amplified.
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:10.719
So we're really seeking understanding and making sure we're clearly articulating and not just assuming that we understand.
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:14.079
The second part of that is oh man avoidance.
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:22.960
You got triggered earlier I kind of felt I started sweating when you said avoidance because this is kind of my soapbox right now.
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:30.719
I'm very disappointed in the block and delete culture that we're in the I will just ignore and move on.
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:35.280
I don't want to deal with the discomfort in this conversation.
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:37.440
So I'll, you know what I'll just find another role.
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:41.119
And then we go and repeat the same patterns somewhere else.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:53.599
So it's really important right now, especially with all the layers we've talked about with AI and the communication crisis and the volume and speed of connection for us to all take accountability.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:35:14.800
You're gonna say the wrong thing sometimes you're going to have conversations that make you feel activated and just starting out with owning that we are all learning even as behavioral health professionals we are also still learning how to communicate and connect.
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:16.000
We're always learning.
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:26.800
The minute I stop learning that I'm done I'm done I want to be learning this this is my life's work to learn how to be the best communicator and connector that I can be.
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:30.960
And I feel like for anyone in this field, that should be a driver.
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:43.119
Maybe it's not your number one driver but that should be a driver of why you're doing the work that you're doing to be the best communicator yourself and then to help your patients and your teams become the best communicator.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:53.679
And the best way for a leader to get everyone else on their team to get on board with that is to start with their own accountability for the areas that they need growth in.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:01.440
It's crucial because the job that we're doing in here is to help others learn how to connect with the world around them, right?
00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:06.639
And that's typically the hardest thing for autistics is to communicate and to connect.
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:23.199
And if we're in an industry that has disconnected with each other, how are we going to begin to be able to manage the connections for others if we're simply just blocking and deleting and taking no accountability it becomes easy to get into that pattern.
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:28.639
So I appreciate that call out because it is really important and it should be our focus.
00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:41.519
And so I really appreciate the fact that you're coming back into the ABA cares community as an outsider looking in what did you learn about the industry that others can't see wow.
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:52.639
That is such a great question Hollybeth I learned that the ABA cares community is really ready to dive in my talks are very interactive.
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:57.039
They're not like a sit back and listen and think about it and take notes.
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:08.960
They're a let's get in the sandbox and let's play with it because the way that we get these tools into practice is by actually living them, putting them in our bodies putting them into practice.
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:15.199
And so that's what you can come to expect from the next time I'm joining you in August.
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:27.119
But I learned that even as someone who is a professional in this field, that there is growth that can be had around communication and connection.
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:36.880
And who better to do that than someone that was driven into this field to be able to help people with communication and connection.
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:47.599
So I'm ready to get back in the sandbox and play with all of you and and help us feel really re energized for that goal or whatever goal it was that drove you into this line of work.
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:52.719
You bring a lot of improv and ways to connect just live and watching it and you feel it in the room.
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:54.639
So thank you for your time today.
00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:59.760
I appreciate it and we'll see you in Boston or people will see you on the other side of the live stream.
00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:01.199
Thanks Damona I can't wait.
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:01.920
Thanks for having me
