Inside the push for net zero Perth. With Karla Fox-Reynolds, Dr. Brad Pettitt MLC and Professor Josh Byrne

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- From global design practise Hassell,
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this is Hassell Talks,
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a podcast series passionate
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about the transformative power
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of design to make the
world a better place.
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I'm Karla Fox-Reynolds,
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sustainable design leader
in Hassell's Perth studio,
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and I'm your host for this episode.
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It's an exciting one.
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We talk about how Perth could
transition to a net zero city,
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and what role regenerative
design can play in doing that.
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Our studio is on Whadjuk country,
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and I acknowledged the Nyoongar elders
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past, present and emerging.
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In March, 2023, as part
of the Perth Design Week,
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we hosted a conversation
in our Perth studio,
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and today, we're sharing an edited version
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of that event with you.
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As you'll hear, the
conversation was robust.
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We spoke about what benefits
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could come from being a net zero city,
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going beyond low carbon emissions,
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and how designers, policy makers,
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and other industry
colleagues can play important
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and collaborative roles
in getting us there.
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Ideas were shared on how to challenge
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project briefs through engagement
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and applying a more
holistic view to a project.
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We heard how homes are
the low-hanging fruit,
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an opportunity for
public-private partnerships,
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and that construction codes in Australia
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are not enabling industry to design
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or deliver high performing buildings.
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Our MC, an old friend of mine,
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Prof. Josh Byrne,
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kicked the conversation off.
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Josh, who Australian listeners
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may know from the ABC's
long-running TV show
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"Gardening Australia."
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He's also the inaugural
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Dean of Sustainable Futures
at Curtin University.
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Enjoy the episode.
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(audience applauding)
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- So let's meet our group to get underway.
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Firstly, Dr. Brad Pettitt MLC.
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So Brad, as we all know,
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is a self-professed sustainability nerd.
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He's well known to all of us
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as the much-loved former
Mayor of Freemantle,
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and prior to his role as
Mayor of City of Freemantle,
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he was the Dean of the
School of Sustainability
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at Murdoch, taking over
from Prof. Peter Newman,
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of course, who's now at Curtin.
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In 2021, Brad was elected
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to the Legislative Council
of the WA Parliament.
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Brad champions a ground-up
approach to sustainability,
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and is leading the Net
Zero Perth initiative,
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with a range of
stakeholders from industry,
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government, academia, and civil society,
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and we'll hear more about
that this afternoon, I'm sure.
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Next, we have Karla Fox-Reynolds,
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of course, who is now with Hassell
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as their sustainable design
leader in the Perth studio,
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and part of the practice's
global sustainability team.
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Karla participates in national industry
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working groups such as the GBCA's
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Sustainable Precinct
Expert Reference Panel,
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and previously held roles
at both Curtin University,
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where I worked with Karla, and
also Climate-KIC Australia.
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Then we have Ben Rees,
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who is a senior associate
architect here at Hassell.
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He was a project team
leader on the WA Museum,
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and is now project lead
for Murdoch Square.
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Ben is interested in how we better define
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high performance buildings,
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and how we can apply systems thinking
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to optimise the design, delivery,
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and operation of our buildings,
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so their resource and energy
efficiency is optimised.
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And then finally, we have Zannah Anderson,
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who is an interior
designer here at Hassell.
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Zannah moved back to
Australia one year ago
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after spending four years in Dubai,
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and is currently working
on the interior design
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for Home Fires film studio.
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She is interested in the micro-scale
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of sustainability and regenerative design,
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and the impact of carefully considered
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materials and spaces.
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Right.
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With that, let's get underway.
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So, let's start with Brad,
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and can you just give us your pitch
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for Net Zero Perth as an initiative?
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You know, what are you trying to achieve,
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and how do you see it becoming a reality?
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- Thanks, Josh.
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And getting carbon emissions
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down to zero is really important,
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so energy is a key part of it,
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but it's also about build form
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and how we tamed the nature of our city.
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Obviously, you could have a net zero city
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that continued to sprawl,
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and just relied on electric cars,
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you know, and renewable energy,
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but that's not a very livable city.
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It's also about livability
and rethinking the open form.
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Of course, that links in with transport,
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which becomes a really,
another key part of it
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around how we move around,
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and what's the best way to link that in.
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And then finally, urban greening,
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which of course has become
a really key part of that,
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because if you're going to
have a livable low-carbon city,
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then it's gotta be a green city as well.
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Some of the fine-grain stuff,
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which I know many of you
have been involved in here
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around that neighbourhood sky,
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how do we redesign the city block,
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and our neighbourhood blocks as well,
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all the way down to the household scale,
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how we redefine our homes,
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make them part of the solution.
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So, it's got almost these 12 chapters,
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because you've got the four bits
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of energy, transport, building reform,
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and greening over those
three different decade.
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We hear a lot about net zero by 2050.
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Good, but not actually matching up
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with what the science says we need to do.
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So, how can we speed that up,
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but do that in a way that inspires?
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I mean, I think there's
often the sense of,
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it feels like a bit of a hair
shirt approach sometimes,
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the idea that the transition.
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And I think it can be
actually just better,
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and actually so inspiring how this idea
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of a low-carbon livable net zero city
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can be a better city,
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I guess is what we're hoping it will be.
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And the idea is we'll try
and have some draughts out
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around the middle of this year,
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and then we want to actually
go back to committee
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and say, "What's missing?"
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and actually have it
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as a very collaborative project
as we go forward as well.
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- A quick followup question, if I can,
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just to help everyone understand
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how this might fit into other work
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that's happening in the policy
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and legislation space at the moment in WA,
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of course, with the state government's
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proposed climate change legislation.
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How is the round table
that you're chairing,
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and the fantastic industry
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and academic engagement that
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you do have in place through that,
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how is that aligning with
sort of the sectorial
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consultation work that's happening,
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and the proposed targets that
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are mooted for towards
the end of the year?
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- That reminds me of my favourite numbers,
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which I always like to talk about
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when I think about Net Zero,
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about cities and carbon.
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So 2% of land mass,
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I think around about now 52% of people,
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and about 72% of machines
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are associated with cities.
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So if you get cities right,
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we actually solve a whole bunch of stuff.
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And the government's working
really hard this year,
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and there's some really
good work happening
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around what I call
sectoral mis-introduction,
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so it'd be SERS, which is a process
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that they hope to go public
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on in the second half of this year.
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And what we're trying in many ways
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is work alongside that, but inspire that
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to go further and harder, and better.
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Which is actually why it's really nice
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he got ministerial staff
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kind of involved in the round table.
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Because some of that
work will happen there.
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The government's committed to legislating
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net zero by 2050, and to actually come up
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with a series of interim targets.
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And what I hope we can do is inform
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what those interim targets could be,
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and make those as ambitious as possible.
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There's a whole bunch
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of low hanging fruit
out there in this space
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that I think is really exciting
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that I think we can do.
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- Thank you.
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Karla, I might throw to you next.
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We know that, at the moment,
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the term net zero, it's everywhere,
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and it's one of those
things like the cloud was,
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you know, 15 years ago.
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It's net zero, everyone's
kind of got that sorted,
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but no one quite knows what it means.
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What are you doing in your work,
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and where are you seeing the conversation
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from leading design firms in relation
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to this notion of regenerative
design to go beyond net zero?
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- Thanks, Josh.
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Hassell has made a commitment
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to what they're calling the
Sustainability Framework,
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and in doing that, they have employed
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a global sustainability team.
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That started last year with
the employment of Sam Peart.
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She's the Global Head of Sustainability.
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And that's not just focused in one area,
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that's across all offices.
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The mentality is that sustainability
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becomes our base load.
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That becomes our minimum.
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And we're working towards that
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regenerative design space.
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So we're no longer working
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in this sort of green
or degenerative area,
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we're working from sustainable
to regenerative design.
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We're not saying at this point
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that we know exactly what
regenerative design looks like.
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It's going to have a whole
host of different complexities.
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There are going to be a
lot of different solutions
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dependent on the site, project,
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client, portfolio, location, and so on.
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But what we're saying is that
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we're a part of the solution,
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and we recognise our role
and our responsibility.
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This is a team sport.
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We all are gonna play a role,
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and we're sort of jumping on board.
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In doing that, we've
recognised 12 principles.
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Don't know whether that's... (laughs)
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12 is a magic number.
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And that is, like you just said,
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we're not just talking about carbon.
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We are talking about the site.
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We're talking about ecology.
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We're talking about materials.
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We're talking about the
social aspect as well.
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So, I think one of the big pieces
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that design brings to
this is about recognising
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that how we need to create
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regenerative design can enable
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thrive-ability for people and nature,
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and the environment.
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What can we be doing to enable
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these places for us to all
live and thrive together?
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So, that's the vision that
we're working towards,
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and for Hassell, that means
all people, all projects.
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So, as part of one of our tasks
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as the sustainability team,
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and the reason why
we're going to be spread
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across the business and in all offices
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is so that we can be
working with architects
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and designers that already have
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their fantastic skills,
they're leading their field,
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but what can we do to
bring them on the journey,
264
00:10:22,410 --> 00:10:24,720
enable sustainable mindsets.
265
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:25,950
Help them to recognise that
266
00:10:25,950 --> 00:10:29,100
actually they probably
have most of the skills,
267
00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:32,370
they have the ideas, and
what can we do to help them
268
00:10:32,370 --> 00:10:36,390
to recognise where the opportunities are,
269
00:10:36,390 --> 00:10:37,860
when to have the conversations.
270
00:10:37,860 --> 00:10:40,380
What are the questions that
they need to be asking?
271
00:10:40,380 --> 00:10:43,590
Who are the clients that
we want to be working with?
272
00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:45,720
Where do we align?
273
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,960
How do we challenge the norm,
274
00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:50,640
go beyond business as usual?
275
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,910
So, like I said,
sustainability is our minimum,
276
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:56,910
but then we're moving
to regenerative design,
277
00:10:56,910 --> 00:10:58,200
and that means thinking outside
278
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,771
of the typical project boundaries.
279
00:11:00,771 --> 00:11:01,604
- Okay.
280
00:11:01,604 --> 00:11:02,790
Probably a good time to throw
281
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:04,440
to a couple of project architects
282
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,150
who are working on the details.
283
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:08,640
So we're going from the
sort of high-level concepts
284
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,050
into the nitty-gritty nuts and bolts here.
285
00:11:12,050 --> 00:11:15,360
So, Ben, I might start with you.
286
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,220
So, as an architect working
287
00:11:17,220 --> 00:11:20,163
on some of Perth's biggest,
most exciting projects,
288
00:11:21,210 --> 00:11:23,940
what is it that you're not getting
289
00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:25,470
adequate guidance from at the moment?
290
00:11:25,470 --> 00:11:27,750
So, with Hassell framing
291
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:31,110
its new 12-principle
Sustainability Framework,
292
00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:32,970
and moving towards this notion
293
00:11:32,970 --> 00:11:34,560
of regenerative design,
294
00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:36,450
and trying to put some structure,
295
00:11:36,450 --> 00:11:39,660
and some metrics, and some evidence-based,
296
00:11:39,660 --> 00:11:41,430
you know, sort of parameters around that.
297
00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:44,190
I'm intrigued to hear
from your perspective
298
00:11:44,190 --> 00:11:45,783
working on the detail,
299
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,450
what do you feel you're
lacking at the moment?
300
00:11:48,450 --> 00:11:50,950
Given that there is
some excellent guidance
301
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,660
at a sort of design guider perspective
302
00:11:54,660 --> 00:11:56,970
coming out of the Design
WA series, for example.
303
00:11:56,970 --> 00:11:58,380
There are some well-established
304
00:11:58,380 --> 00:12:00,510
sustainability frameworks at the moment.
305
00:12:00,510 --> 00:12:03,090
GBCA, Living Building Challenge, others,
306
00:12:03,090 --> 00:12:05,100
if we can stretch that far.
307
00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:06,450
So, I guess my question is,
308
00:12:07,366 --> 00:12:09,360
what are the missing mechanisms
309
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,050
that are not enabling you to take projects
310
00:12:13,050 --> 00:12:15,113
where you think they need to go?
311
00:12:15,113 --> 00:12:16,650
- I think the main question is,
312
00:12:16,650 --> 00:12:18,690
how do we measure performance
313
00:12:18,690 --> 00:12:20,220
in the projects we do?
314
00:12:20,220 --> 00:12:22,200
And there's all sorts of qualitative
315
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,900
and quantitative metrics around
316
00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:26,550
what success looks like.
317
00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:29,910
And in all of our projects, you know,
318
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:32,250
we have to apply sort of multiple
319
00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:34,230
different lenses and different angles
320
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:39,180
as to analysing how a
project can be sustainable,
321
00:12:39,180 --> 00:12:40,740
regenerative, and all the rest of it.
322
00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:42,600
So, it's kind of like you have to take
323
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,453
a holistic view of everything
everywhere all at once,
324
00:12:46,290 --> 00:12:48,810
and you have to think about sort of scales
325
00:12:48,810 --> 00:12:52,830
from macro to micro, and
time, short time to long time.
326
00:12:52,830 --> 00:12:57,540
And every project is sort of different,
327
00:12:57,540 --> 00:12:59,070
depending on the brief, the budget,
328
00:12:59,070 --> 00:13:00,420
the building typology.
329
00:13:00,420 --> 00:13:03,450
And, you know, on a
project like the museum,
330
00:13:03,450 --> 00:13:06,600
it's actually quite easy to achieve
331
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,290
a lot of success, because
everyone's behind it.
332
00:13:10,290 --> 00:13:12,150
It's kind of a one-off for Perth.
333
00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:14,730
You know, it's a really,
really important building,
334
00:13:14,730 --> 00:13:17,490
and so it achieved a lot of things
335
00:13:17,490 --> 00:13:19,380
in terms of adaptive reuse,
336
00:13:19,380 --> 00:13:21,420
regenerating the cultural precinct,
337
00:13:21,420 --> 00:13:24,000
and, you know, a high-performing building.
338
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,450
But for me, and I think a lot of us,
339
00:13:27,450 --> 00:13:29,760
there's an enormous frustration
340
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,510
in terms of the codes and
the regulatory framework
341
00:13:33,510 --> 00:13:35,790
about how we build buildings,
342
00:13:35,790 --> 00:13:37,980
and how to achieve a
high performing building.
343
00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:42,120
Because, to be frank, we're about 20 years
344
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,610
behind Europe in terms of
what a high performance
345
00:13:44,610 --> 00:13:46,170
building is and looks like,
346
00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:47,920
in terms of, say, the fabric of it.
347
00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:50,910
And I'm sort of referring to thermal
348
00:13:50,910 --> 00:13:53,580
and energy performance, air tightness,
349
00:13:53,580 --> 00:13:54,413
you know, that sort of thing.
350
00:13:54,413 --> 00:13:56,490
We have these sort of leaky sieves,
351
00:13:56,490 --> 00:13:58,530
where every two minutes, all
of the air in the building
352
00:13:58,530 --> 00:14:00,180
either has to be heated or cooled,
353
00:14:00,180 --> 00:14:01,860
because it's all leaking out, you know,
354
00:14:01,860 --> 00:14:06,060
at sort of 15 to 20 air changes an hour.
355
00:14:06,060 --> 00:14:08,640
NCC22 is a minor improvement,
356
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:09,780
but it's not going that far,
357
00:14:09,780 --> 00:14:11,190
and we've kicked the can down the road
358
00:14:11,190 --> 00:14:12,693
until 2025 here in WA.
359
00:14:13,620 --> 00:14:15,870
The reality is we've got a
lot of catching up to do.
360
00:14:15,870 --> 00:14:18,300
So those sort of standards
361
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:20,940
are minimum standards for compliance.
362
00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:23,430
We need to get really aspirational.
363
00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:25,560
How do we achieve, you know,
364
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,210
not just a car that's roadworthy,
365
00:14:27,210 --> 00:14:29,010
but, you know, a high performance?
366
00:14:29,010 --> 00:14:30,390
You know, that sort of thing.
367
00:14:30,390 --> 00:14:32,220
If you designed a car to
the minimum standards,
368
00:14:32,220 --> 00:14:33,360
you probably wouldn't wanna buy it.
369
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,430
You'd want to get something
better than that, right?
370
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:37,710
And it doesn't necessarily cost loads
371
00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:40,770
more money to do it, but it does require
372
00:14:40,770 --> 00:14:42,300
a change in thinking that takes
373
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:45,180
a lot more consideration
on building science,
374
00:14:45,180 --> 00:14:46,590
and how buildings actually work
375
00:14:46,590 --> 00:14:48,183
more than what they look like.
376
00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:51,573
And I guess, you know,
377
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,280
it also requires a major education drive,
378
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,520
in terms of the community, the trades,
379
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,800
and how those kind of buildings get built,
380
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,513
because, you know, it's different.
381
00:15:04,350 --> 00:15:05,730
But I think, you know,
we should be looking
382
00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:07,170
at things like passive house,
383
00:15:07,170 --> 00:15:11,580
and those kind of technologies
or building methods,
384
00:15:11,580 --> 00:15:13,440
and seeing what we can learn from them,
385
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:14,520
how we can apply them.
386
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,940
You know, in Frankfurt,
they've just opened
387
00:15:17,940 --> 00:15:21,120
a passive house hospital of 700 beds,
388
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:22,860
all designed to, and for
anyone who doesn't know
389
00:15:22,860 --> 00:15:24,960
what passive house is,
it's super-insulated,
390
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,630
triple-glazed heat recovery ventilation.
391
00:15:27,630 --> 00:15:30,450
You know, it's this sort
of ultra high-performance
392
00:15:30,450 --> 00:15:32,703
energy-efficient building typology.
393
00:15:32,703 --> 00:15:35,700
And if it can be done in Europe...
394
00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:37,050
Yes, you need an enormous amount
395
00:15:37,050 --> 00:15:40,410
of kind of regulatory impetus,
396
00:15:40,410 --> 00:15:42,453
or a very visionary client,
397
00:15:44,460 --> 00:15:46,140
but all the tools exist for us
398
00:15:46,140 --> 00:15:48,240
to do really high-performance buildings,
399
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,990
but, you know, we've
got a real problem here.
400
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:53,430
We need to build a lot more housing,
401
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:55,320
a lot more social
housing, and the fact is,
402
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,440
if we build that to current standards,
403
00:15:58,440 --> 00:15:59,280
you're talking about...
404
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,830
In 25 years time it's supposedly net zero,
405
00:16:01,830 --> 00:16:03,300
but if we're building
it to current standards,
406
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:05,250
it's gonna be substandard then,
407
00:16:05,250 --> 00:16:06,900
and it's gonna need to be retrofitted,
408
00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:08,670
and who's gonna pay for that retrofitting?
409
00:16:08,670 --> 00:16:10,560
You're just essentially, you know,
410
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,930
I think risking creating a problem
411
00:16:12,930 --> 00:16:15,570
further down the track that
is too expensive to solve,
412
00:16:15,570 --> 00:16:17,610
and I guess for us the frustration
413
00:16:17,610 --> 00:16:20,460
is that we could solve it now,
414
00:16:20,460 --> 00:16:22,230
but, you know, the
framework has to be there,
415
00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:25,410
because the incentive
isn't necessarily there
416
00:16:25,410 --> 00:16:26,760
to go beyond the code,
417
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,940
because, you know, it's
hard and it costs more.
418
00:16:29,940 --> 00:16:31,590
- We'll come back to how we might
419
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:34,680
de-risk policy change
a little bit later on.
420
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,810
I think, from my perspective,
421
00:16:36,810 --> 00:16:38,460
that's one of the most
exciting opportunities
422
00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:40,466
we have as a fraternity.
- Absolutely, yeah.
423
00:16:40,466 --> 00:16:42,360
- By demonstrating leadership
424
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,480
and providing the room and the space
425
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,218
for regulators to actually fill.
426
00:16:48,218 --> 00:16:50,310
Zannah, so much of the conversation
427
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:53,160
around Net Zero aspirations is around
428
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:54,566
operational energy.
429
00:16:54,566 --> 00:16:57,780
From an interior design perspective,
430
00:16:57,780 --> 00:17:00,390
when you're looking at, in terms of LCA,
431
00:17:00,390 --> 00:17:02,370
it's the regular refitting
432
00:17:02,370 --> 00:17:04,920
and refurbishment of buildings,
433
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,270
and specifically interiors,
434
00:17:06,270 --> 00:17:07,650
which, over the life of the building,
435
00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:09,210
really do start to add up.
436
00:17:09,210 --> 00:17:10,920
I'd be keen to hear any reflections
437
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,360
that you've got in terms of trends
438
00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:13,500
you're seeing in the space,
439
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:15,620
and whether or not the kind of importance
440
00:17:15,620 --> 00:17:18,033
of net zero that we see from,
441
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:21,540
I guess, a high-level policy setting,
442
00:17:21,540 --> 00:17:24,210
and project aspiration level.
443
00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:26,670
Is that filtering down to the detail
444
00:17:26,670 --> 00:17:27,570
that you're working on?
445
00:17:27,570 --> 00:17:30,634
And is that conversation mature
446
00:17:30,634 --> 00:17:32,280
in this part of the design?
447
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,110
- Well, it should be, right?
448
00:17:34,110 --> 00:17:35,823
It should be filtering down.
449
00:17:36,780 --> 00:17:38,550
And I think the more that you listen
450
00:17:38,550 --> 00:17:40,503
to the discourse, just generally,
451
00:17:41,490 --> 00:17:43,080
you can kind of get an understanding
452
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,750
that interiors is sort of,
453
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:49,200
well, for us, our options
are quite straightforward,
454
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:50,033
and they're there.
455
00:17:50,033 --> 00:17:51,120
It's the materials we choose,
456
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:52,140
the furniture we choose,
457
00:17:52,140 --> 00:17:55,380
and the way that we choose
to detail our designs.
458
00:17:55,380 --> 00:17:56,850
And so, in a sense,
459
00:17:56,850 --> 00:18:00,570
there's a much more forward trajectory,
460
00:18:00,570 --> 00:18:02,460
straight, narrow path to follow
461
00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:04,080
than trying to do something
462
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,210
aspirationally kind of
in an urban setting,
463
00:18:06,210 --> 00:18:07,710
which is much larger.
464
00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:09,000
I think it's interesting
465
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,180
to look at Hassell's
Sustainability Framework
466
00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:13,380
when it comes to interiors,
467
00:18:13,380 --> 00:18:15,240
and there's sort of notions in there
468
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,510
that should always be kept
in the back of your head,
469
00:18:18,510 --> 00:18:21,420
and they're things that,
coming from the Middle East,
470
00:18:21,420 --> 00:18:24,063
I definitely, that didn't cross my path.
471
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:27,450
But, you know, it's coming down to,
472
00:18:27,450 --> 00:18:30,030
okay, board sizes of a material,
473
00:18:30,030 --> 00:18:33,360
and making sure that we're
not creating extra waste,
474
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:35,010
and purchasing extra product.
475
00:18:35,010 --> 00:18:37,170
But then it can be further than that,
476
00:18:37,170 --> 00:18:39,870
that if you have that time for research,
477
00:18:39,870 --> 00:18:41,730
and the budget that allows you,
478
00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:44,490
you can start looking into materiality,
479
00:18:44,490 --> 00:18:46,593
which is much more conscious,
480
00:18:48,528 --> 00:18:52,705
and much better in a longevity situation.
481
00:18:52,705 --> 00:18:53,643
- I might just throw to Karla,
482
00:18:53,643 --> 00:18:56,280
just picking up on the
idea of retrofitting,
483
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:57,420
and you mentioned earlier.
484
00:18:57,420 --> 00:18:58,470
I know we're sort of going
485
00:18:58,470 --> 00:19:00,603
from commercial buildings back to resi.
486
00:19:00,603 --> 00:19:03,180
But I want to focus on
the residential housing
487
00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:05,010
for a moment, because I know that Karla,
488
00:19:05,010 --> 00:19:09,510
in her previous life at
Climate-KIC Australia
489
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:11,660
was involved in an
incredible piece of work
490
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:15,030
with several universities involved,
491
00:19:15,030 --> 00:19:17,841
Curtin being one, UTS being another,
492
00:19:17,841 --> 00:19:19,200
called A Million Homes.
493
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,973
And it was looking at, you know,
494
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,440
the plans and processes
and systems required
495
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:30,440
to rapidly retrofit a
million homes or more.
496
00:19:31,260 --> 00:19:33,840
So, scaling up the types
of retrofitting practises
497
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,840
that we all know work, and
return very real benefits
498
00:19:38,970 --> 00:19:40,470
to households in terms of comfort
499
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:43,590
and health and savings.
500
00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:46,410
Just to give us your
take on the opportunities
501
00:19:46,410 --> 00:19:47,940
in retrofit versus new build.
502
00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:49,380
We often get excited with new builds,
503
00:19:49,380 --> 00:19:50,760
but how about the retrofits?
504
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,737
- I get excited about retrofit. (laughs)
505
00:19:54,737 --> 00:19:57,090
And mostly for homes,
but also when you look
506
00:19:57,090 --> 00:20:00,660
at the city landscape,
and I would love to know
507
00:20:00,660 --> 00:20:02,880
the numbers of how many buildings
508
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,740
just within the city that sit dormant,
509
00:20:04,740 --> 00:20:07,110
and what we could, and
really start to consider
510
00:20:07,110 --> 00:20:08,910
what we could actually do with that,
511
00:20:08,910 --> 00:20:12,090
what policy would open
up those opportunities.
512
00:20:12,090 --> 00:20:13,770
But then, looking at residential,
513
00:20:13,770 --> 00:20:16,440
and Ben started to touch on it,
514
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,440
if we are building new homes now
515
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:20,273
that are going to need
516
00:20:20,273 --> 00:20:22,470
to be retrofitted in 5, 10.
517
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:24,900
Well, in reality, they
need to be retrofitted
518
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:26,880
the day after somebody moves in,
519
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,490
the way they're being built right now.
520
00:20:29,490 --> 00:20:30,600
We already have,
521
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,120
so there's 10 million
homes within Australia.
522
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:35,973
Approximately 8 million of
those need retrofitting.
523
00:20:37,740 --> 00:20:41,580
Obviously, NCC2022 is
progress for Australia.
524
00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:45,453
It took us 10, 12 years
to have some progress.
525
00:20:46,290 --> 00:20:47,910
Hopefully, there is already,
526
00:20:47,910 --> 00:20:49,380
behind the scenes, a lot of talk
527
00:20:49,380 --> 00:20:52,590
about what the next NCC looks like.
528
00:20:52,590 --> 00:20:55,800
Yay, we have a visitor. (laughs)
529
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,050
And there is talk about,
from the industry,
530
00:20:58,050 --> 00:21:02,190
driving that towards net zero for homes.
531
00:21:02,190 --> 00:21:05,220
We already have examples
of that internationally.
532
00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:06,750
From a scaling perspective,
533
00:21:06,750 --> 00:21:09,090
the issue that we found is that
534
00:21:09,090 --> 00:21:11,040
it isn't about the solutions.
535
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,310
We generally know what needs
to be done for our home.
536
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:15,300
We have the tools now.
537
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:16,170
There's the national
538
00:21:16,170 --> 00:21:19,290
Residential Energy Efficiency
Scorecard that can be done.
539
00:21:19,290 --> 00:21:20,460
It costs a few hundred dollars.
540
00:21:20,460 --> 00:21:22,320
Somebody would walk through a home,
541
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,700
and go through the process,
542
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:25,410
and give you a star rating,
543
00:21:25,410 --> 00:21:29,790
and then also tell you
what they would recommend
544
00:21:29,790 --> 00:21:33,870
to be able to increase the
efficiency of your home.
545
00:21:33,870 --> 00:21:35,370
Something that we also found, though,
546
00:21:35,370 --> 00:21:38,550
is that people, the actual process,
547
00:21:38,550 --> 00:21:40,290
and even those of us that are involved
548
00:21:40,290 --> 00:21:42,180
in the industry thought of going through
549
00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:45,390
the process from that I
want to improve my home,
550
00:21:45,390 --> 00:21:47,915
to the actual realisation of that
551
00:21:47,915 --> 00:21:50,730
is a very difficult process.
552
00:21:50,730 --> 00:21:52,890
You might now have a star rating,
553
00:21:52,890 --> 00:21:54,000
and something that tells you,
554
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,140
but then who do you call?
555
00:21:55,140 --> 00:21:57,000
Do you know a trade local that
556
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,010
is actually capable of doing that?
557
00:21:59,010 --> 00:22:00,750
If you were to find somebody,
558
00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:03,517
find a plumber and say,
or an electrician and say,
559
00:22:03,517 --> 00:22:06,120
"I'd like to remove all gas from my home.
560
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:07,740
We'd like to electrify.
561
00:22:07,740 --> 00:22:09,480
We're thinking about
putting in a heat pump,"
562
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,010
they'll most probably
just try and talk you
563
00:22:11,010 --> 00:22:14,220
into having gas
instantaneous, for example.
564
00:22:14,220 --> 00:22:16,708
That's a tricky piece
that we need to come over,
565
00:22:16,708 --> 00:22:19,083
and it's a case of upscaling.
566
00:22:20,460 --> 00:22:22,260
And there's a lot that can be done,
567
00:22:22,260 --> 00:22:24,473
from a government
perspective to enable that.
568
00:22:25,710 --> 00:22:27,240
- What I loved about that piece of work,
569
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,270
it's not just reiterating
the stuff we already know,
570
00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:32,070
in terms of how we go about making
571
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:36,270
a conventional, you know,
Aussie standalone detached house
572
00:22:36,270 --> 00:22:38,550
net zero in operation,
and more comfortable.
573
00:22:38,550 --> 00:22:39,480
It's actually all about,
574
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,250
how do you build the supply chains,
575
00:22:41,250 --> 00:22:44,460
and the business ecosystem in this country
576
00:22:44,460 --> 00:22:48,180
to actually make it a financially
positive outcome as well?
577
00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:49,410
- And, I mean, homes in many ways
578
00:22:49,410 --> 00:22:51,850
actually are the low-hanging
fruit in lots of ways.
579
00:22:51,850 --> 00:22:54,052
And I think we've all
seen some of the work
580
00:22:54,052 --> 00:22:56,850
that Saul Griffith and the
whole Rewiring Australia,
581
00:22:56,850 --> 00:22:58,470
pulling gas out of your buildings,
582
00:22:58,470 --> 00:23:00,750
electrifying, heat pumps, insulation.
583
00:23:00,750 --> 00:23:02,010
It's not rocket science.
584
00:23:02,010 --> 00:23:03,600
It pays for itself really quickly.
585
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,090
And I think, for me,
a whole bunch of stuff
586
00:23:06,090 --> 00:23:08,970
in that space that just
makes a huge amount
587
00:23:08,970 --> 00:23:10,830
of sense that we need to do quickly,
588
00:23:10,830 --> 00:23:14,160
and that actually, I
think, just makes sense.
589
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,660
But you need, again,
590
00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:18,570
building up industry
and capacity to do that.
591
00:23:18,570 --> 00:23:21,390
And enabling especially,
592
00:23:21,390 --> 00:23:23,460
because there's a real
challenge with these things,
593
00:23:23,460 --> 00:23:25,170
and it also applies to electric vehicles,
594
00:23:25,170 --> 00:23:27,870
even electric bikes, which
we talked about earlier,
595
00:23:27,870 --> 00:23:30,480
where you've got this upfront capital cost
596
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,640
but then they just pay for themselves
597
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,580
so beautifully over time.
598
00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:38,850
But how do you help
people who aren't wealthy
599
00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:41,550
to be able to, many ways,
get past that first hurdle
600
00:23:41,550 --> 00:23:42,780
and actually do that?
601
00:23:42,780 --> 00:23:45,180
I think, and that's a really
important role for government,
602
00:23:45,180 --> 00:23:47,493
where government, and I
often look at the ACT,
603
00:23:48,570 --> 00:23:50,280
who do lots of really
good stuff in the space.
604
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,380
They actually offer low,
605
00:23:52,380 --> 00:23:54,600
or actually sometimes no-interest loans
606
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,660
to help people buy into it, actually,
607
00:23:56,660 --> 00:23:59,028
so they can do some of
this low-hanging fruit.
608
00:23:59,028 --> 00:24:00,570
And then, all of a
sudden, those households,
609
00:24:00,570 --> 00:24:03,180
and Saul Griffith's numbers are, I mean,
610
00:24:03,180 --> 00:24:04,920
that by the end of this decade,
611
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,340
the average household
will save $5000 a year
612
00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:09,840
on energy bills if they electrify.
613
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,927
And by electrify, it means
electrify your transport,
614
00:24:12,927 --> 00:24:16,530
your car, and electrify your house.
615
00:24:16,530 --> 00:24:18,420
That's huge savings, and if you can help
616
00:24:18,420 --> 00:24:20,370
especially lower-income
households do that,
617
00:24:20,370 --> 00:24:22,100
I think that's some of the best
low-hanging fruit we can do.
618
00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:24,510
- Do the targets play a role here?
619
00:24:24,510 --> 00:24:26,670
So, is that something
that's being considered
620
00:24:26,670 --> 00:24:29,070
within the departments
because now obviously,
621
00:24:29,070 --> 00:24:32,280
and speaking from WA State
Government perspective,
622
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,500
have a target and everything,
623
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:36,390
every asset, every building,
624
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:39,990
every tenancy will have
an impact on that target.
625
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:43,140
Is that a way that I can be communicated
626
00:24:43,140 --> 00:24:45,750
about if we are going to be trying
627
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:48,420
to reach this target,
then another building,
628
00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:51,180
or another tenancy is going
to have to make up for that?
629
00:24:51,180 --> 00:24:54,300
- Logic suggests that
it must do eventually,
630
00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:57,420
but has it filtered down to that point yet
631
00:24:57,420 --> 00:24:59,040
of working that out?
632
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,060
- I think that's the process
633
00:25:00,060 --> 00:25:00,893
that's happening right now,
634
00:25:00,893 --> 00:25:02,880
through SERS I think is how.
635
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,140
And who takes that weight
636
00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:05,850
in terms of actually
meeting those targets?
637
00:25:05,850 --> 00:25:07,980
- So, this presents a really
interesting opportunity,
638
00:25:07,980 --> 00:25:09,090
and I think we're all wanting
639
00:25:09,090 --> 00:25:12,240
to take something away from this afternoon
640
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,120
about how we look to operationalize
641
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,610
or implement initiatives in various shapes
642
00:25:17,610 --> 00:25:19,920
and forms to nudge things along.
643
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,250
And if the role out of SERS,
644
00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:26,130
and if there are these sectoral reviews
645
00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:28,650
that are happening, which
would include, you know,
646
00:25:28,650 --> 00:25:31,860
the delivery of public
buildings and assets,
647
00:25:31,860 --> 00:25:34,050
for those who work in
the design fraternity,
648
00:25:34,050 --> 00:25:36,300
in that part of the industry,
649
00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:38,190
there's an opportunity.
650
00:25:38,190 --> 00:25:40,170
You know, particularly the
big firms that are designing,
651
00:25:40,170 --> 00:25:42,540
that have significant reputations
652
00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:45,003
and are trusted for their advice.
653
00:25:45,930 --> 00:25:47,257
If they're speaking up and saying,
654
00:25:47,257 --> 00:25:48,990
"Right, here's the
opportunity to go beyond
655
00:25:48,990 --> 00:25:50,370
what you normally do."
656
00:25:50,370 --> 00:25:51,840
Consider adjusting the brief
657
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,210
so that you can meet those returns
658
00:25:54,210 --> 00:25:55,920
of carbon emission
savings as you're required
659
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,940
to do under the state government targets.
660
00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:03,060
That's an intervention
point that is live now,
661
00:26:03,060 --> 00:26:05,130
between now and the end of the year.
662
00:26:05,130 --> 00:26:07,950
- My fear sometimes with the
Net Zero language though is,
663
00:26:07,950 --> 00:26:08,940
and I think this is actually
664
00:26:08,940 --> 00:26:11,340
a real danger for how this plays out,
665
00:26:11,340 --> 00:26:12,720
is that we're going to try
666
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,090
and have a net zero version
of what we do already.
667
00:26:15,090 --> 00:26:16,530
And my fear is that eventually,
668
00:26:16,530 --> 00:26:20,379
you'll swap out every
internal combustion car
669
00:26:20,379 --> 00:26:23,130
with an electric car, and we just may have
670
00:26:23,130 --> 00:26:24,297
every house with a solar panel on it,
671
00:26:24,297 --> 00:26:25,470
and we think that's okay.
672
00:26:25,470 --> 00:26:26,940
I guess that's what I was trying to say
673
00:26:26,940 --> 00:26:31,940
is let's don't make that our
solution to a carbon problem.
674
00:26:32,340 --> 00:26:34,380
- Something I'd like to add in is the idea
675
00:26:34,380 --> 00:26:37,470
of a whole-of-life carbon measurement
676
00:26:37,470 --> 00:26:39,930
being done as part of
the planning process.
677
00:26:39,930 --> 00:26:42,450
So, in some part, it's, how do we change
678
00:26:42,450 --> 00:26:44,100
the measures of success,
679
00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:47,550
and how do we change our priorities?
680
00:26:47,550 --> 00:26:50,040
So, if we're talking
languages that go beyond,
681
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,750
if we're thinking from
an economic perspective,
682
00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:54,450
it goes beyond just the dollar
where we're talking about,
683
00:26:54,450 --> 00:26:55,650
we start talking about carbon,
684
00:26:55,650 --> 00:26:56,790
we start talking about comfort,
685
00:26:56,790 --> 00:26:59,490
we start to think about health, society.
686
00:26:59,490 --> 00:27:03,930
And all of those are amalgamated
as the same conversation,
687
00:27:03,930 --> 00:27:08,509
and we measure them in
whatever manner we best can.
688
00:27:08,509 --> 00:27:10,560
And obviously environment
in there as well,
689
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,740
but that's a tricky
one, really tricky one.
690
00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:15,630
It starts to change what a building,
691
00:27:15,630 --> 00:27:19,530
or a precinct, or a city would look like,
692
00:27:19,530 --> 00:27:22,620
because our measure of
success is different.
693
00:27:22,620 --> 00:27:25,487
So, I think that's something
I'd really like to see,
694
00:27:25,487 --> 00:27:29,310
and that needs to happen
in planning and in process,
695
00:27:29,310 --> 00:27:31,983
but it also needs to happen,
that shift of mindset.
696
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:35,680
- Mark Taylor from Hesperia.
697
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:36,870
Great conversation.
698
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:37,890
Thanks, everybody.
699
00:27:37,890 --> 00:27:38,967
So, I was just going to talk about
700
00:27:38,967 --> 00:27:40,240
our net zero a little bit,
701
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:41,073
you know, it goes a little bit
702
00:27:41,073 --> 00:27:42,480
to a private side as well.
703
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,430
We're actually net zero now.
704
00:27:44,430 --> 00:27:48,510
So, our current projects
are set up to be remeasure,
705
00:27:48,510 --> 00:27:51,120
reduce, and offset, and I actually think
706
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:52,530
that's a bit of a minimum.
707
00:27:52,530 --> 00:27:54,000
We're trying to get away from,
708
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,667
particularly the offsetting,
709
00:27:55,667 --> 00:27:57,540
and by 2030 we want to be doing
710
00:27:57,540 --> 00:28:00,227
very little offsetting
and still be net zero.
711
00:28:00,227 --> 00:28:03,600
And by 2040 we think that's as light
712
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,370
as we can possibly land to having
713
00:28:05,370 --> 00:28:08,160
actually zero carbon projects.
714
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,320
Also around the focusing on carbon,
715
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,357
I think, is obviously important.
716
00:28:12,357 --> 00:28:13,380
We're doing it to understand carbon,
717
00:28:13,380 --> 00:28:15,030
and what makes a difference.
718
00:28:15,030 --> 00:28:17,250
But the thing I notice again and again
719
00:28:17,250 --> 00:28:20,880
is that when we do try and engage
720
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,650
with these difficult problems,
721
00:28:22,650 --> 00:28:25,410
we end up getting much better buildings.
722
00:28:25,410 --> 00:28:27,630
You know, if you think, "I
don't want to use concrete,
723
00:28:27,630 --> 00:28:29,480
I'm going to use timber on this one,"
724
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,850
replace the steel in
out sheds or something,
725
00:28:32,850 --> 00:28:34,800
it's just a much nicer building,
726
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,103
and all kinds of amazing kind
of co-benefits seem to emerge.
727
00:28:38,952 --> 00:28:40,890
And I think that goes for landscape
728
00:28:40,890 --> 00:28:43,560
a little bit as well,
as we try and repair,
729
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,490
do some of this nature
regeneration and so on.
730
00:28:45,490 --> 00:28:47,370
We're just ending up
with better landscapes
731
00:28:47,370 --> 00:28:48,573
and better spaces.
732
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,060
There's also energy.
733
00:28:51,060 --> 00:28:52,073
As we move to renewable energy,
734
00:28:52,073 --> 00:28:54,090
there's different ways we can think now,
735
00:28:54,090 --> 00:28:56,670
where rather than just wanting to be more
736
00:28:56,670 --> 00:28:57,660
and more efficient all the time,
737
00:28:57,660 --> 00:29:00,180
we can say, well, what is actually
738
00:29:00,180 --> 00:29:01,650
a really good use of energy?
739
00:29:01,650 --> 00:29:04,050
You know, what should we be using it for?
740
00:29:04,050 --> 00:29:05,310
And where do we need to be efficient?
741
00:29:05,310 --> 00:29:06,824
Where could we actually use a bit more?
742
00:29:06,824 --> 00:29:08,818
Because we use it the right time of day,
743
00:29:08,818 --> 00:29:09,903
or from the right sources,
744
00:29:09,903 --> 00:29:12,522
recirculating air in buildings,
745
00:29:12,522 --> 00:29:14,730
maybe we can just stop doing that
746
00:29:14,730 --> 00:29:17,927
because we can, you know,
do the renewable energy,
747
00:29:17,927 --> 00:29:20,610
and then it's a much healthier result.
748
00:29:20,610 --> 00:29:21,870
I'm just saying, there's a whole
749
00:29:21,870 --> 00:29:25,260
lot of sort of potential co-benefits
750
00:29:25,260 --> 00:29:26,710
on this journey that I think,
751
00:29:27,810 --> 00:29:29,940
for a lot of people here,
that's actually our job.
752
00:29:29,940 --> 00:29:32,433
We're already wanting to go there.
753
00:29:32,433 --> 00:29:34,740
We kind of get what we have to do,
754
00:29:34,740 --> 00:29:37,320
but to make it more compelling,
755
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,370
I think there just is a good story there.
756
00:29:40,375 --> 00:29:41,220
It goes along with the hard work,
757
00:29:41,220 --> 00:29:43,710
and let's capture that.
758
00:29:43,710 --> 00:29:45,360
- Well said.
759
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,800
To wrap up, to Brad and Karla,
760
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:50,850
so, as I mentioned earlier,
761
00:29:50,850 --> 00:29:52,260
I think we all want to sort of leave
762
00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:55,023
this conversation this afternoon,
763
00:29:55,860 --> 00:29:59,850
you know, with a sense
of how, as a fraternity
764
00:29:59,850 --> 00:30:03,900
in this design space,
we can all contribute
765
00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:04,830
to positive change.
766
00:30:04,830 --> 00:30:06,510
I think we're all doing
that in our own ways
767
00:30:06,510 --> 00:30:07,510
with the work we do.
768
00:30:08,430 --> 00:30:12,003
But maybe, Brad, if I
can start with you first,
769
00:30:13,380 --> 00:30:15,247
what are some of the, I guess,
770
00:30:15,247 --> 00:30:19,620
the two or three key ways
that design practitioners,
771
00:30:19,620 --> 00:30:21,933
at this point in time, in Perth,
772
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:25,350
can go beyond just collaboration,
773
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:28,300
but actually contribute to fast-tracking
774
00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:34,710
the transition towards
seeing really good design,
775
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:38,430
and net zero, beyond zero outcomes,
776
00:30:38,430 --> 00:30:42,270
and the broader sustainability outcomes
777
00:30:42,270 --> 00:30:43,520
in the built environment?
778
00:30:44,490 --> 00:30:47,010
How do we get to that
point beyond collaboration?
779
00:30:47,010 --> 00:30:47,843
- Yeah.
780
00:30:49,740 --> 00:30:52,020
There's a few ways, and collaboration
781
00:30:52,020 --> 00:30:54,840
is gonna be, I think, remains key,
782
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,640
but also talking up the successes,
783
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,560
and how do we, and then they're happening,
784
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,870
I just don't think that people
know about them actually, so.
785
00:31:00,870 --> 00:31:03,180
Anyway, sharing the things that
786
00:31:03,180 --> 00:31:05,100
are going beyond business as usual,
787
00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:07,920
that are getting us to where we want to go
788
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,680
in terms of net zero and
nature positive and all this.
789
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:11,850
I guess that's partly what I'm hoping
790
00:31:11,850 --> 00:31:13,020
to do with the Net Zero Project.
791
00:31:13,020 --> 00:31:14,940
You actually start to, in many ways,
792
00:31:14,940 --> 00:31:16,950
to find a new, better normal,
793
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:18,150
meaning that we all feel
794
00:31:18,150 --> 00:31:19,620
like we can get excited about it,
795
00:31:19,620 --> 00:31:20,880
because I think that's, in many ways,
796
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,005
going to be part of it.
797
00:31:22,005 --> 00:31:23,363
And then it's gonna be around push.
798
00:31:23,363 --> 00:31:25,470
I mean, I really do think government
799
00:31:25,470 --> 00:31:27,750
has a really big role to play here,
800
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:30,180
and government cares a huge amount
801
00:31:30,180 --> 00:31:31,953
about what industry thinks.
802
00:31:32,850 --> 00:31:35,280
And I think there needs
803
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,730
to be a really clear voice
to government around what,
804
00:31:38,730 --> 00:31:40,980
I mean, in many ways,
it's not fair to industry
805
00:31:40,980 --> 00:31:43,290
that the worst performers get to succeed
806
00:31:43,290 --> 00:31:47,010
because the regulations
don't actually support
807
00:31:47,010 --> 00:31:48,270
the best performers.
808
00:31:48,270 --> 00:31:49,980
So we actually need industries
809
00:31:49,980 --> 00:31:53,550
that actually ask and
demand that government
810
00:31:53,550 --> 00:31:55,950
sets regulation that gets
us where we need to go,
811
00:31:55,950 --> 00:31:58,530
and actually rewards
the people in this room
812
00:31:58,530 --> 00:31:59,910
who are doing good stuff,
813
00:31:59,910 --> 00:32:03,210
and actually rewards
those kinds of projects.
814
00:32:03,210 --> 00:32:04,710
I think if we do those things,
815
00:32:06,090 --> 00:32:08,760
like, you know, I keep
coming back to this fact
816
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,460
that we have the technology,
817
00:32:11,460 --> 00:32:16,410
we know what to do, and
now it's just a way of,
818
00:32:16,410 --> 00:32:18,960
how do we ramp that up, and inspire,
819
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,850
and actually collaborate,
820
00:32:20,850 --> 00:32:22,900
but also actually start to join up
821
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,060
some of those things for what hopefully,
822
00:32:27,060 --> 00:32:29,670
and in fact must be a decade that
823
00:32:29,670 --> 00:32:32,100
is totally different,
where we actually start
824
00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:34,890
to totally reimagine how we
do the built environment,
825
00:32:34,890 --> 00:32:36,150
how we design our cities.
826
00:32:36,150 --> 00:32:38,250
Because that, as I said at the start,
827
00:32:38,250 --> 00:32:40,350
that's just some of the key changes,
828
00:32:40,350 --> 00:32:41,790
some of the change that
we can do right now.
829
00:32:41,790 --> 00:32:44,880
It's exciting, but it's going to require
830
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,370
a huge push from everybody asking
831
00:32:47,370 --> 00:32:49,650
for something that is different.
832
00:32:49,650 --> 00:32:50,483
- Thank you.
833
00:32:50,483 --> 00:32:51,316
Karla?
834
00:32:51,316 --> 00:32:52,170
- This is an opportunity
835
00:32:52,170 --> 00:32:54,390
for public-private partnership,
836
00:32:54,390 --> 00:32:56,730
so that we go beyond collaboration.
837
00:32:56,730 --> 00:32:57,563
We can partner.
838
00:32:57,563 --> 00:33:00,113
We can all bring something
different to the table.
839
00:33:01,170 --> 00:33:02,400
I'm gonna throw it out there
840
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,960
and say that architects can make
841
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,320
the ordinary extraordinary. (laughs)
842
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,105
But it's about adding
a bit of fun to this.
843
00:33:10,105 --> 00:33:11,250
It's hard work.
844
00:33:11,250 --> 00:33:12,213
It's complex.
845
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:15,930
There are a lot of many, as Mark said,
846
00:33:15,930 --> 00:33:19,860
boring steps that need to be in process.
847
00:33:19,860 --> 00:33:23,400
However, there's so much fun
to be had in that process,
848
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,376
and we need to envisage
what we want the future
849
00:33:26,376 --> 00:33:27,873
that we want to be a part of.
850
00:33:27,873 --> 00:33:29,040
What does that look like?
851
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,750
And I know a lot of people,
852
00:33:30,750 --> 00:33:32,130
they refer back to their meaning
853
00:33:32,130 --> 00:33:33,720
being about their children,
854
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,330
and that is, for some
people, their driver.
855
00:33:36,330 --> 00:33:38,820
But this isn't just for our children.
856
00:33:38,820 --> 00:33:41,520
It's gonna impact us this decade.
857
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,470
So, it's about, what is your,
858
00:33:43,470 --> 00:33:46,350
what do you envisage
the world to look like?
859
00:33:46,350 --> 00:33:49,110
What do you envisage your
neighbourhood, your community?
860
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:50,730
What do you envisage being,
861
00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:52,740
you know, the base minimum being?
862
00:33:52,740 --> 00:33:55,800
Because there will be some people where,
863
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,060
because they have so much money,
864
00:33:57,060 --> 00:33:59,340
they'll continue to live
in a manner that they will,
865
00:33:59,340 --> 00:34:01,320
and they will be able to adapt.
866
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:02,700
But there will be many people
867
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:04,680
that won't be able to adapt,
868
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,540
and if we're not being able to lift them
869
00:34:06,540 --> 00:34:08,070
up as a part of the community,
870
00:34:08,070 --> 00:34:09,780
we are failing still.
871
00:34:09,780 --> 00:34:12,930
So, it's about everybody
getting there together,
872
00:34:12,930 --> 00:34:17,930
being creative, you know,
being brave, being human,
873
00:34:18,540 --> 00:34:20,820
which I think we all
learnt from the pandemic.
874
00:34:20,820 --> 00:34:22,490
That was a bit of a,
875
00:34:22,490 --> 00:34:23,790
we were able to be a little bit
876
00:34:23,790 --> 00:34:25,680
more vulnerable with each other,
877
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,730
so let's run with that,
and achieve the vision.
878
00:34:29,730 --> 00:34:30,630
I think that's it.
879
00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:34,470
- Well, thank you to both of you
880
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:37,920
for being part of this
conversation right the way through,
881
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,070
and a big thank you to those of you
882
00:34:41,070 --> 00:34:42,527
who were comfortable to come forward
883
00:34:42,527 --> 00:34:45,750
and take a seat and make some comments.
884
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:48,283
A big thanks, of course, to
all of you for coming along.
885
00:34:48,283 --> 00:34:50,400
I believe this event booked out
886
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,380
within a matter of hours,
887
00:34:52,380 --> 00:34:55,110
which is, you know, really
testimony to the concept.
888
00:34:55,110 --> 00:34:58,560
So well done to Hassell for hosting us
889
00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:59,790
and putting this forward.
890
00:34:59,790 --> 00:35:01,170
I'm sure, you know, it's gonna be one
891
00:35:01,170 --> 00:35:04,470
of the highlights of Perth Design Week.
892
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:05,970
I guess the last comment that
893
00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:07,650
I'll make before closing is,
894
00:35:07,650 --> 00:35:10,380
just picking up on that point that
895
00:35:10,380 --> 00:35:13,110
Brad made in his closing words,
896
00:35:13,110 --> 00:35:16,710
which is around, we have
a unique opportunity,
897
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:18,573
I think, right now,
898
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,660
and certainly between now
and the end of the year,
899
00:35:21,660 --> 00:35:25,200
when the SERS process concludes,
900
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:26,790
as the state government, you know,
901
00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:30,000
continue to work through
their consultation process
902
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,270
for setting these targets
that will be legislated
903
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:37,980
on how we make our way
to net zero and beyond.
904
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:39,060
For the thought leaders,
905
00:35:39,060 --> 00:35:40,653
of which many are in this room,
906
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,420
can contribute to raising the bar
907
00:35:45,420 --> 00:35:46,803
and the standard of conversation
908
00:35:46,803 --> 00:35:51,090
that is happening with industry
and the wider community.
909
00:35:51,090 --> 00:35:54,660
And it's about process of normalising
910
00:35:54,660 --> 00:35:56,940
is the behavioural science
term in this aspect,
911
00:35:56,940 --> 00:36:00,150
is that we're moving away from the idea
912
00:36:00,150 --> 00:36:02,190
of having exemplars.
913
00:36:02,190 --> 00:36:03,060
They are important.
914
00:36:03,060 --> 00:36:04,006
They raise awareness.
915
00:36:04,006 --> 00:36:05,417
They excite people.
916
00:36:05,417 --> 00:36:08,175
Clients, you know, love exemplars.
917
00:36:08,175 --> 00:36:10,950
But we need to normalise this,
918
00:36:10,950 --> 00:36:14,700
and have it as part of a
conversation that people get.
919
00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:17,670
We have to move beyond
language of just net zero,
920
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:19,620
because it is rapidly becoming a buzz term
921
00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:20,850
that no one quite understands,
922
00:36:20,850 --> 00:36:22,560
but it's okay, net zero's sorted,
923
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,170
so we've got a positive future.
924
00:36:25,170 --> 00:36:28,050
We have multiple
challenges in front of us.
925
00:36:28,050 --> 00:36:29,730
Obviously, the biodiversity challenge,
926
00:36:29,730 --> 00:36:31,830
the toxicity and persistent materials
927
00:36:31,830 --> 00:36:34,470
and chemicals challenge, and
of course climate change,
928
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:36,840
which is arguably the
most urgent at the moment.
929
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,633
And so, to really address all of those,
930
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,380
design is about doing things better,
931
00:36:43,380 --> 00:36:46,470
and I think as was pointed
out on a couple of occasions,
932
00:36:46,470 --> 00:36:49,140
designers need to do more than just focus
933
00:36:49,140 --> 00:36:50,700
on their own projects.
934
00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:52,020
They need to work together,
935
00:36:52,020 --> 00:36:55,521
and I think collectively,
we have a huge role to play.
936
00:36:55,521 --> 00:37:00,521
(audience applauding)
(gentle music)
937
00:37:21,630 --> 00:37:23,280
- It was really encouraging to see
938
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:24,990
and hear about the connections being made
939
00:37:24,990 --> 00:37:27,750
between setting targets, measuring impact,
940
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:29,490
and the responsibility to deliver
941
00:37:29,490 --> 00:37:31,890
aspirations at project level.
942
00:37:31,890 --> 00:37:33,750
We know that the process isn't easy
943
00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:36,900
and in some places quite
complex and challenging,
944
00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:39,240
but there are obvious opportunities
945
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:41,610
for us all to work
together in an environment
946
00:37:41,610 --> 00:37:44,640
that allows for creative
and brave partnerships,
947
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,560
where we can challenge our priorities
948
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,633
and our measures for success.
949
00:37:49,830 --> 00:37:51,750
We all want to be part of the solution
950
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:54,060
that empowers us to live and thrive
951
00:37:54,060 --> 00:37:56,760
with country and its creatures.
952
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,440
In the time since the event,
953
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,080
the Perth office has been
energised by the conversations
954
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,700
that have continued.
955
00:38:02,700 --> 00:38:04,350
Hassell's Sustainability Framework
956
00:38:04,350 --> 00:38:05,820
gives permission to our designers
957
00:38:05,820 --> 00:38:08,760
to think systemically and
to explore with clients
958
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,583
and partners what it means
to design regeneratively.
959
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,100
It also helps them to see the role
960
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:16,440
they play in creating and realising
961
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,630
the vision of a net zero Perth.
962
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:21,690
There are so many good stories to come.
963
00:38:21,690 --> 00:38:23,850
Thanks again to our MC, Josh Byrne,
964
00:38:23,850 --> 00:38:26,520
to everyone who contributed
to the conversation,
965
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,590
and the many people
working behind the scenes
966
00:38:28,590 --> 00:38:30,180
to create this event.
967
00:38:30,180 --> 00:38:32,910
And thank you to you, our listeners.
968
00:38:32,910 --> 00:38:34,200
We know you're as passionate
969
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,810
about the role design plays
in creating a beautiful,
970
00:38:36,810 --> 00:38:39,483
resilient and inclusive future as we are.
971
00:38:40,650 --> 00:38:42,240
I'm Karla Fox-Reynolds.
972
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:45,180
You've been listening to an
episode of "Hassell Talks."
973
00:38:45,180 --> 00:38:47,310
Follow, rate and review us.
974
00:38:47,310 --> 00:38:48,930
We love to hear your feedback,
975
00:38:48,930 --> 00:38:52,260
and your reviews help other
people find our podcast.
976
00:38:52,260 --> 00:38:55,953
This episode was produced by
Siaw Chai and Prue Vincent.