Wayback Wednesday! Stopping Alien Abductions with Joe Jordan (2010) - A View From The Bunker

WEBVTT
1
00:00:04.009 --> 00:00:04.750
Hi, everybody.
2
00:00:05.070 --> 00:00:09.250
It's me, Cinderella X. You are listening to the Fringe
3
00:00:09.589 --> 00:00:14.339
Radio Network. I know I was going to tell them. Hey,
4
00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:16.820
do you have the app? It's the best way to
5
00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:20.320
listen to the Fringe Radio Network. It's safe, and you
6
00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:22.620
don't have to log in to use it, and it
7
00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:26.600
doesn't track you or trace you, and it sounds beautiful.
8
00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:29.949
I know I was going to tell them. How do
9
00:00:29.969 --> 00:00:34.869
you get the app? Just go to Fringeraidionetwork.com, right at
10
00:00:34.909 --> 00:00:35.969
the top of the page.
11
00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:38.159
I know, Slippers.
12
00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:47.789
We've got to keep cleaning these chimneys. Stopping alien abductions. Now,
13
00:00:48.070 --> 00:00:54.829
on A View from the Bunker. The world is a
14
00:00:54.850 --> 00:00:58.850
lot more like the X-Files than most of us think. UFOs,
15
00:00:58.929 --> 00:01:02.210
abduction phenomena, that's all real. but it's not what most
16
00:01:02.229 --> 00:01:04.590
of the world thinks it is. Our guest this week
17
00:01:04.650 --> 00:01:08.129
is the co-founder and president of CE4 Research. He's been
18
00:01:08.170 --> 00:01:12.170
an investigator for the Mutual UFO Network since 1992. He's
19
00:01:12.189 --> 00:01:15.599
spoken at six different Roswell UFO festivals and hosted the
20
00:01:15.659 --> 00:01:20.019
Roswell UFO Festival Conference in 2008. And he's the co-author
21
00:01:20.060 --> 00:01:23.920
of a forthcoming book with Dave Ruffino called Unholy Communion,
22
00:01:24.299 --> 00:01:27.560
the Alien Abduction Phenomenon, Where It Originates and How It Stops.
23
00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:30.519
We welcome Joe Jordan. to the bunker. Joe, it's good
24
00:01:30.540 --> 00:01:31.260
to talk with you again.
25
00:01:31.980 --> 00:01:34.439
Yeah, it's good to be back on, and it's been
26
00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:37.079
some time. We'll have to do this again a little
27
00:01:37.099 --> 00:01:38.099
bit shorter together.
28
00:01:38.379 --> 00:01:40.620
I agree. It's been far too long, because this is
29
00:01:40.700 --> 00:01:47.170
one of the aspects of life, really, of the nature
30
00:01:47.209 --> 00:01:50.909
of the universe that has intrigued me since I was
31
00:01:50.969 --> 00:01:53.129
a kid. As we talked before recording here, I've been
32
00:01:53.170 --> 00:01:55.469
a fan of science fiction for a long, long time,
33
00:01:55.510 --> 00:01:58.950
and a lot of science fiction deals with first contact
34
00:01:59.090 --> 00:02:02.349
and then you know, the expanded contact of mankind out
35
00:02:02.450 --> 00:02:05.670
into the, uh, uh, the universe and dealing with alien races.
36
00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:10.090
And of course, uh, the, the stories of, uh, uh,
37
00:02:10.219 --> 00:02:14.919
experiencers and abductees, uh, it makes for some interesting and
38
00:02:14.979 --> 00:02:17.560
very compelling reading. It's also been the fuel for a
39
00:02:17.580 --> 00:02:21.439
lot of popular movies, uh, like, uh, close encounters of
40
00:02:21.460 --> 00:02:27.159
the third kind. Um, but, uh, it's one thing to
41
00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:31.840
look at those accounts as fiction or as delusions, but
42
00:02:32.020 --> 00:02:35.110
it's something else again when you begin to research it
43
00:02:35.129 --> 00:02:37.250
and find out that there are too many of these
44
00:02:37.289 --> 00:02:42.930
accounts that are too similar to dismiss them as fiction.
45
00:02:44.110 --> 00:02:46.750
Starting at the beginning, Joe, you've been with MUFON since 1992.
46
00:02:46.750 --> 00:02:52.539
What was it about the mutual UFO network that attracted
47
00:02:52.580 --> 00:02:55.659
your interest. Why did you start investigating the accounts of abductees?
48
00:02:56.740 --> 00:03:01.090
Well, when I first got into the study of UFOs,
49
00:03:01.150 --> 00:03:03.210
which was kind of an accident, I just picked up
50
00:03:03.330 --> 00:03:06.330
one book. And it caught my attention, and I got
51
00:03:06.349 --> 00:03:10.810
the UFO bug, should I say. And I met a
52
00:03:11.129 --> 00:03:14.520
fellow that was the state section director for MUFON in
53
00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:17.840
Orange County, which is where Orlando is located here in Florida.
54
00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:21.000
And he had a little store, which was set up
55
00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:24.099
like a museum on International Drive. And I went over
56
00:03:24.139 --> 00:03:25.840
to see him a few times and got to be
57
00:03:25.909 --> 00:03:28.770
friends with him and his wife and talked a lot
58
00:03:28.810 --> 00:03:32.909
about different UFO stuff and the history of UFOs and
59
00:03:32.969 --> 00:03:37.550
abductions and He introduced me to MUFON, actually, and he
60
00:03:37.590 --> 00:03:39.810
saw that I had a real keen interest in wanting
61
00:03:39.870 --> 00:03:42.729
to know more. And he said, you know, there is
62
00:03:42.770 --> 00:03:45.370
a research group out here that you could be part of,
63
00:03:46.219 --> 00:03:51.120
and they have the tools to help you become an investigator. Plus,
64
00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:55.319
there's hundreds of consultants available if you ever need to
65
00:03:55.379 --> 00:03:58.379
talk to one, you know, in the organization from all
66
00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:02.530
different aspects of the sciences when you're doing your research.
67
00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:05.490
And I thought, well, this is pretty neat. And once
68
00:04:05.530 --> 00:04:09.849
he laid down the format that MUFON was based on,
69
00:04:10.509 --> 00:04:12.810
going from the investigator level all the way at the
70
00:04:12.849 --> 00:04:16.529
bottom to state section directors, which are guys that run
71
00:04:16.550 --> 00:04:20.189
the counties and send the investigators out to do the
72
00:04:20.470 --> 00:04:24.250
investigations when the calls come in. And then the state directors,
73
00:04:24.290 --> 00:04:27.949
they had an eastern United States director, west coast United
74
00:04:28.009 --> 00:04:31.899
States director, and then they had an international director. So
75
00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:35.769
they had a nice organization all set up. They had
76
00:04:35.810 --> 00:04:38.209
a database that they were working off of and had
77
00:04:38.250 --> 00:04:44.209
been since 1969 for compiling the work that was coming
78
00:04:44.250 --> 00:04:48.000
in from the field investigators. So here was an organization
79
00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.740
already set up to do what you wanted to do
80
00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:55.360
and to be able to help you out. And actually,
81
00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:59.300
they were the only one left. The groups that were
82
00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:03.250
around a decade before, NICAP, APRO, and all of those
83
00:05:03.310 --> 00:05:09.199
had long, you know, become, they disappeared. You know, they
84
00:05:09.220 --> 00:05:12.379
closed up and moved on. And MUFON was the last
85
00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:15.000
one that was still left. And that caught my interest
86
00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:17.699
to be able to have some help in doing this research.
87
00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:20.819
And they've been good to me all along. You know, they,
88
00:05:21.339 --> 00:05:25.399
I use their guidelines for becoming a field investigator, went
89
00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:29.000
through their training. And I had a couple guys that
90
00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:33.019
helped me do the early investigations when I was going
91
00:05:33.050 --> 00:05:36.720
through my training. And then I just stayed with it,
92
00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:38.620
you know, and they've been good all these years.
93
00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.319
What was your experience like in MUFON? How did they
94
00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:47.639
approach the phenomenon? In other words, do they have any
95
00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:49.079
preconceptions about what's going on?
96
00:05:52.810 --> 00:05:56.970
I would say that they do. And that puzzles me
97
00:05:58.129 --> 00:06:02.449
with them because they state that they're a scientifically based organization,
98
00:06:02.629 --> 00:06:09.379
you know, investigative organization. But they're not totally objective. They
99
00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:13.730
still have that connection that UFO automatically means extraterrestrial. I
100
00:06:13.769 --> 00:06:18.350
see too much of it in the writings of the journal.
101
00:06:19.029 --> 00:06:23.269
And we still don't have evidence. There's no evidence that
102
00:06:23.310 --> 00:06:27.350
this is extraterrestrial. we wouldn't be having this conversation if
103
00:06:27.389 --> 00:06:27.829
there was.
104
00:06:28.860 --> 00:06:30.899
Or it'd be a very different conversation, right?
105
00:06:31.339 --> 00:06:34.300
It'd be a different conversation. I mean, you can use
106
00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:39.220
other terms besides saying extraterrestrial. You could say non-human entities.
107
00:06:39.259 --> 00:06:43.620
That pretty much keeps it generalized where it's not limiting
108
00:06:43.660 --> 00:06:47.040
it to one certain thing. But I do see a
109
00:06:47.110 --> 00:06:51.430
preconceived idea that they do believe that There are aliens,
110
00:06:51.589 --> 00:06:53.889
you know, and they want to get the information and
111
00:06:54.050 --> 00:06:58.420
technology that they possess, you know, for the benefit of humanity.
112
00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:07.579
So they are looking at these entities with the assumption
113
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:12.600
that they originate off planet. They're not considering the possibility
114
00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:16.040
that these may be inter or extra dimensional beings?
115
00:07:16.899 --> 00:07:21.149
Well, I see that more over the years. And from
116
00:07:21.209 --> 00:07:24.100
more and more researchers that have come out and do
117
00:07:24.149 --> 00:07:30.339
believe that there's an interdimensional aspect to this experience, the
118
00:07:30.459 --> 00:07:36.480
UFO abduction experience. But they still believe that there's physical,
119
00:07:37.540 --> 00:07:43.439
technical hardware of high technology. And that's the attraction. And
120
00:07:43.779 --> 00:07:46.029
that's what they'd love to get their hands on, on
121
00:07:46.089 --> 00:07:52.430
what they perceive to be technology. That's the seduction in
122
00:07:52.470 --> 00:07:59.170
the whole field. You know, I've heard this at different conferences. Actually,
123
00:08:00.810 --> 00:08:03.069
you know, researchers have come right out and said this
124
00:08:03.149 --> 00:08:06.750
when asked, you know, what are we in this for? And,
125
00:08:07.339 --> 00:08:10.480
you know, the researcher will tell you it's for the technology.
126
00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:11.800
We want the technology.
127
00:08:14.060 --> 00:08:16.060
And just watch out. That book, To Serve Man, really
128
00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:16.699
is a cookbook.
129
00:08:17.500 --> 00:08:18.079
I heard that.
130
00:08:20.470 --> 00:08:23.670
What was your approach when you first joined MUFON? Did
131
00:08:23.689 --> 00:08:25.620
you have any preconceptions about what was happening?
132
00:08:27.980 --> 00:08:32.659
No, I didn't. Actually, I thought it was pretty crazy
133
00:08:33.259 --> 00:08:38.370
because UFOs was not in my vocabulary until the time
134
00:08:38.450 --> 00:08:40.710
I actually read that first book. And that first book,
135
00:08:40.750 --> 00:08:44.970
by the way, was UFO Crash at Roswell. And it
136
00:08:45.009 --> 00:08:48.480
read like a science fiction book to me. But the
137
00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:50.639
books on the back cover of it, you know, it
138
00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:54.570
said this was based on real research and investigations, and
139
00:08:55.129 --> 00:08:57.549
they believed it to have been a real event. Well,
140
00:08:57.590 --> 00:09:00.110
that puzzled me because I used to be a science
141
00:09:00.149 --> 00:09:04.590
fiction fan, and actually still am, and here I was
142
00:09:04.629 --> 00:09:10.659
seeing a mix of reality and fantasy in the same setting,
143
00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:14.159
you know, and that puzzled me because I knew what
144
00:09:14.220 --> 00:09:17.409
fantasy was. I didn't I didn't believe in all this
145
00:09:17.529 --> 00:09:21.070
extraterrestrial stuff. I didn't have a preconceived notion about it,
146
00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:23.720
except that I didn't believe it. And when I got
147
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:28.659
into studying it, first couple of years, I was absolutely
148
00:09:28.700 --> 00:09:32.659
convinced that something's going on. People are seeing odd things
149
00:09:32.740 --> 00:09:36.610
in the skies. And I was going to see what
150
00:09:36.649 --> 00:09:39.070
that was all about. That's how I started out into this.
151
00:09:39.950 --> 00:09:43.710
But it wasn't long before I, too, was caught up
152
00:09:43.830 --> 00:09:48.960
in the idea that automatically this was extraterrestrial. And I
153
00:09:49.019 --> 00:09:52.960
think that came from a lot of my connections with
154
00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:56.230
people that I had been involved with when I was
155
00:09:56.289 --> 00:09:59.360
holding my monthly meetings and the acquaintances I made in
156
00:09:59.379 --> 00:10:03.559
the research group that were more involved in new age
157
00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:07.919
and metaphysical beliefs. And I saw that that was actually
158
00:10:08.019 --> 00:10:10.820
part of this phenomenon. I couldn't understand at the time
159
00:10:10.980 --> 00:10:13.500
what part of it it was, but I knew there
160
00:10:13.539 --> 00:10:16.029
was some kind of connection. And as I explored it,
161
00:10:16.659 --> 00:10:22.259
I became more and more involved with it. Most of
162
00:10:22.299 --> 00:10:26.389
the researchers in MUFON I would say that I've come
163
00:10:26.450 --> 00:10:34.190
across have some thinking toward new age and metaphysical beliefs.
164
00:10:35.190 --> 00:10:40.360
I don't see them as absolutely scientifically based. There are some,
165
00:10:41.059 --> 00:10:44.840
but all through the group as I've made contact with
166
00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:48.360
different states over the years, state directors, state section directors,
167
00:10:49.100 --> 00:10:52.820
I always see that mix. You know, coming at it
168
00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:53.820
from that perspective.
169
00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:59.769
So there's a mixture then among researchers of wanting this technology,
170
00:11:00.250 --> 00:11:04.629
but also perceiving that these entities may be the key
171
00:11:04.649 --> 00:11:10.129
to understanding the nature of reality itself, maybe giving our lives,
172
00:11:10.169 --> 00:11:14.419
meaning explaining our origins and our ultimate destiny. Yeah.
173
00:11:14.899 --> 00:11:17.269
Yes. And you see a lot of that in the,
174
00:11:17.289 --> 00:11:19.429
you know, going back to the 70s with the works
175
00:11:19.470 --> 00:11:23.309
of Von Dynican, Chariots of the Gods, you know, and
176
00:11:23.649 --> 00:11:26.250
they're still looking at this stuff, you know, in the
177
00:11:26.309 --> 00:11:30.639
same manner. It's almost like a religion, you know, and
178
00:11:30.659 --> 00:11:31.899
they get mad when I say that.
179
00:11:34.899 --> 00:11:37.240
How can it be a religion when there's science involved?
180
00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:38.340
Exactly.
181
00:11:40.730 --> 00:11:44.370
So at what point did you begin to change your view?
182
00:11:44.450 --> 00:11:46.950
It's no secret to people who know of your work
183
00:11:47.149 --> 00:11:51.690
and who may have been familiar with you by whatever
184
00:11:51.730 --> 00:11:55.210
means through Guy Malone's Ancient of Days conferences or the
185
00:11:55.269 --> 00:11:59.049
Roswell conferences or whatever, that you are a Christian. At
186
00:11:59.129 --> 00:12:02.600
what point did you begin to change your views of
187
00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:03.240
what was happening?
188
00:12:05.059 --> 00:12:09.149
Well, backing up, I started out in this When I
189
00:12:09.190 --> 00:12:12.009
got that first book and started getting involved at MUFON,
190
00:12:12.090 --> 00:12:17.899
I was an absolute agnostic. Besides UFOs not being on
191
00:12:18.139 --> 00:12:22.539
my vocabulary, religion and the idea of worshiping a god
192
00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:28.049
wasn't there either. I was a regular hard worker at
193
00:12:28.090 --> 00:12:32.009
a factory at the time and helping raise my son.
194
00:12:32.049 --> 00:12:34.470
These things weren't priorities in my life. As I got
195
00:12:34.490 --> 00:12:40.190
into to the research, though, and got involved with the
196
00:12:40.230 --> 00:12:45.509
New Age of Metaphysics, I realized I had this hole
197
00:12:46.029 --> 00:12:49.220
in my life that something was missing. And the New
198
00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:56.620
Age Metaphysics has a spirituality effect that they call it,
199
00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:01.779
you know, a form of spirituality. And I linked on
200
00:13:01.870 --> 00:13:06.590
to it, and it seemed to fill this hole I
201
00:13:06.649 --> 00:13:10.590
had that had something missing in it. And I spent
202
00:13:10.649 --> 00:13:14.080
about four years involved with the metaphysical and new age
203
00:13:14.509 --> 00:13:19.419
views and studies. And even to the point where I
204
00:13:19.460 --> 00:13:24.559
was preaching what they believed. And that was the same
205
00:13:24.620 --> 00:13:28.879
time that I got involved with the abduction research. And
206
00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:33.549
I had a particular investigator that was working with me,
207
00:13:34.429 --> 00:13:37.049
a girl I had met that came to my monthly
208
00:13:37.090 --> 00:13:41.490
meetings and we actually started dating and, uh, I put
209
00:13:41.529 --> 00:13:44.590
her to work working with the abductions with me because
210
00:13:44.610 --> 00:13:48.149
a lot of the abduction experiencers were women. And when
211
00:13:48.169 --> 00:13:51.779
you start doing the investigations and listening to them, um,
212
00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:55.820
some of the things that have happened in their experiences
213
00:13:55.879 --> 00:14:02.740
can be pretty, um, personal in nature. And, um, I
214
00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:06.840
realized that trying to get the story and the information
215
00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.740
out of them, I could see that they were uncomfortable
216
00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:12.980
talking to me. So it was good to have my
217
00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:15.740
girlfriend at the time to be able to go in
218
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:19.399
and do the investigation for me and interview these ladies.
219
00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.750
And then we would talk about it afterwards. It made
220
00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:26.590
it easier, you know, to have a female investigator working
221
00:14:26.610 --> 00:14:31.629
with you. And she happened to be a professing Christian.
222
00:14:32.870 --> 00:14:39.370
And Maybe not a walk-to-walk Christian, but she knew what
223
00:14:39.409 --> 00:14:43.870
she believed. Of course, she couldn't be much of a
224
00:14:43.870 --> 00:14:47.350
walk-to-walk working with me and what I was doing at
225
00:14:47.389 --> 00:14:51.149
the time. But she knew what she believed, and she
226
00:14:51.190 --> 00:14:53.169
knew I was involved in the New Age, and she'd
227
00:14:53.210 --> 00:14:58.590
listen to my gobbledygook that I was preaching and always
228
00:14:58.669 --> 00:15:01.870
test me on it. And we ended up working with
229
00:15:01.909 --> 00:15:06.210
a couple cases in 1996. We had a lot going
230
00:15:06.429 --> 00:15:11.500
on in, I think it was November, first part of November, October,
231
00:15:11.649 --> 00:15:14.080
end of October, first part of November of 96. I mean,
232
00:15:14.139 --> 00:15:15.720
we had a lot of stuff going on at that
233
00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:20.360
time with the group. That was, it actually started when
234
00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:25.580
the launch of the Mars Global Surveyor. That was the
235
00:15:25.620 --> 00:15:30.779
first rocket we sent back to Mars back in 96.
236
00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:34.379
And we were doing a rally here at the Space Center.
237
00:15:36.370 --> 00:15:41.590
that we were pushing for to get the area of
238
00:15:41.649 --> 00:15:47.240
Cydonia on the photography docket. It wasn't at the time.
239
00:15:48.500 --> 00:15:51.700
And they were not going to cover Cydonia. It wasn't
240
00:15:51.740 --> 00:15:53.899
in the lineup of the areas that they were taking
241
00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:57.759
pictures of. And Richard Hoagland got involved with us, and
242
00:15:57.940 --> 00:16:00.250
I actually had him here in Florida at the Space
243
00:16:00.289 --> 00:16:04.309
Center for that rally. And We wanted to make a
244
00:16:04.370 --> 00:16:09.549
public presentation to let people know that we were helping
245
00:16:09.610 --> 00:16:12.690
pay for this flight through our taxes, and we'd like
246
00:16:12.730 --> 00:16:16.679
to get this area shot again. And so we were
247
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.440
pretty busy doing all of that. I had Richard here
248
00:16:19.500 --> 00:16:22.120
and putting on a talk for him and putting the
249
00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:24.759
rally together. But at the same time, I had two
250
00:16:24.820 --> 00:16:28.970
particular abduction cases that I was working with. So I
251
00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:30.909
was doing a lot of juggling at one time.
252
00:16:31.230 --> 00:16:31.370
Mm-hmm.
253
00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:35.519
And something we were getting out of those two abduction
254
00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:42.340
investigations was very dark. I didn't understand what was happening there,
255
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.080
but there seemed to be a lot of oppression in
256
00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:47.720
dealing with these two experiencers. And it was starting to
257
00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:51.440
affect me, and it was starting to affect my partner, Wes,
258
00:16:51.460 --> 00:16:55.850
that helped form CE4 with me. And my girlfriend started
259
00:16:55.889 --> 00:16:58.850
looking at this and said, you know, you guys have
260
00:16:58.909 --> 00:17:01.289
got something going on here. I'm not sure what it is.
261
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:05.480
But I think you, when you're dealing in this field,
262
00:17:05.539 --> 00:17:09.039
I think you guys need some protection. And she was
263
00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:12.460
specifically talking to me. And I said, well, I get
264
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.369
all sorts of protection. And I pull out my gemstones,
265
00:17:15.380 --> 00:17:21.230
you know. And she says, no, I'm talking about real protection.
266
00:17:22.309 --> 00:17:24.950
And I said, well, what do you mean? And this
267
00:17:25.049 --> 00:17:29.069
is where my life started to change. She pulled out
268
00:17:29.089 --> 00:17:31.029
a Bible and she says, I'd like to show you
269
00:17:31.089 --> 00:17:37.170
something in here. Well, I balked at that one. I said, nope.
270
00:17:37.329 --> 00:17:39.410
I said, you know, there's nothing in there that has
271
00:17:39.430 --> 00:17:41.369
to do with what we do or what I'm doing.
272
00:17:42.410 --> 00:17:45.210
And she says, oh, I think there is. And she says,
273
00:17:45.269 --> 00:17:49.250
at least from the protection aspect. And I said, I
274
00:17:49.289 --> 00:17:52.269
don't think so. I said, you know, I don't think
275
00:17:52.289 --> 00:17:54.490
that's got anything to do with this. And she says, well,
276
00:17:54.650 --> 00:17:57.309
let me ask you again. Can I ask you to
277
00:17:57.349 --> 00:18:00.630
take a look at this? And I realized what she
278
00:18:00.670 --> 00:18:04.039
was doing because I always told people that I was
279
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:09.029
the most objective, open-minded investigator there was. So she was
280
00:18:09.069 --> 00:18:13.650
calling me on it. I realized that. So I said,
281
00:18:13.690 --> 00:18:16.690
all right, show me what you got. And in the
282
00:18:16.750 --> 00:18:20.130
next few moments of her taking me through the basic
283
00:18:20.170 --> 00:18:25.509
gospel and then into Ephesians dealing with spiritual warfare, I
284
00:18:25.549 --> 00:18:30.619
heard something for the first time. And it wasn't really
285
00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:34.210
that I was told it the first time, but I
286
00:18:34.269 --> 00:18:38.160
heard it for the first time. My ears became open,
287
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.640
my eyes became open, and I was amazed at what
288
00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.180
I was hearing. And it absolutely touched my heart. And
289
00:18:45.220 --> 00:18:49.400
I said, you know what? I would like that protection.
290
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:56.259
And I became a believer that night. And like I said,
291
00:18:57.660 --> 00:18:59.869
this wasn't the first time that I had heard the gospel.
292
00:19:01.019 --> 00:19:02.839
But it was the first time that I was able
293
00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:06.960
to comprehend it and take it in.
294
00:19:07.009 --> 00:19:08.250
I know exactly how that feels.
295
00:19:08.269 --> 00:19:11.210
Yeah. I grew up in the church as a youth
296
00:19:11.869 --> 00:19:14.490
all the way to my senior year in high school. Yep.
297
00:19:14.710 --> 00:19:21.259
And so I knew in my head, but I couldn't
298
00:19:21.299 --> 00:19:23.359
hear it in the heart. And this was the first time.
299
00:19:24.380 --> 00:19:29.220
And that's when I made a change. And that was... November,
300
00:19:29.269 --> 00:19:32.890
second week of November of 96. Well, I was coming
301
00:19:32.970 --> 00:19:36.069
up on two weeks off from Sea Ray where I
302
00:19:36.109 --> 00:19:39.430
worked at Christmas time. We always shut down the plant
303
00:19:39.490 --> 00:19:41.710
two weeks at Christmas and one week during the summer.
304
00:19:42.609 --> 00:19:45.490
And I was coming up for two weeks off. And
305
00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:49.369
my partner, Wes, who also was a Christian and that
306
00:19:49.390 --> 00:19:53.690
helped me form CE4 he says he was very happy
307
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.099
that I had changed my ways and he says I
308
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.839
got this fellow that I work with he says he's
309
00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:03.140
got this Bible study course and I said if you're
310
00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:05.900
interested he says you know I can we can sit
311
00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:08.039
down and take this course during your time off and
312
00:20:08.569 --> 00:20:11.579
And I was really interested because as an investigator and
313
00:20:11.670 --> 00:20:15.640
somebody who's curious about things, I wanted to know who
314
00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:19.500
I was and what I had as a new Christian.
315
00:20:20.539 --> 00:20:23.109
And I didn't want to wait and sit through 50
316
00:20:23.109 --> 00:20:26.730
Sunday school sermons or Sunday sermons to figure it out.
317
00:20:27.009 --> 00:20:29.009
I was hungry and I wanted to know right now.
318
00:20:29.690 --> 00:20:34.049
So I took them up on this two-week Bible study course,
319
00:20:34.089 --> 00:20:36.990
and it was a video course. And we'd go over
320
00:20:37.009 --> 00:20:40.109
to the fellow's house each night, and we'd watch a
321
00:20:40.150 --> 00:20:42.809
couple hours on the video, and we just went through
322
00:20:42.869 --> 00:20:44.859
night after night. And it was very intense and very,
323
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.079
very good. And it taught me how to understand the
324
00:20:48.099 --> 00:20:52.180
Word of God and dissect it as I was reading
325
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:54.700
it and putting things in content, you know, by verse
326
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:58.160
and by subject and everything else. It was great. And
327
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:03.140
it also empowered me in understanding what I was as
328
00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:09.819
a Christian. And that's what we did for those two weeks,
329
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:12.279
you know, and I kind of put everything on hold
330
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:15.009
dealing with the UFO stuff because, uh, I had my
331
00:21:15.049 --> 00:21:17.730
focus here right at that time. And it was during
332
00:21:17.769 --> 00:21:21.509
this training session that, uh, I had an experience. Um,
333
00:21:22.009 --> 00:21:23.930
it was right in the first week, end of the
334
00:21:23.950 --> 00:21:26.869
first week, we were watching the videos and the fellow
335
00:21:26.930 --> 00:21:32.329
got into this topic of what he called spiritual warfare. Well,
336
00:21:32.410 --> 00:21:36.430
that caught my attention. I mean, it's, it sounded really interesting. And, uh,
337
00:21:36.980 --> 00:21:40.630
I'd never heard the term before. And he started out
338
00:21:40.690 --> 00:21:44.670
by taking us to the book of Ephesians. And he
339
00:21:44.710 --> 00:21:50.950
started out with Ephesians 6.12. And as he read Ephesians 6.12,
340
00:21:50.950 --> 00:21:53.269
I'm sitting there on the couch, my two buddies are
341
00:21:53.289 --> 00:21:56.730
there in the living room with me watching this, there
342
00:21:56.769 --> 00:21:59.150
in case I had any questions, because they'd been through
343
00:21:59.190 --> 00:22:04.200
this before. And as I'm sitting there listening to that verse,
344
00:22:05.970 --> 00:22:10.259
Something happened to me. I saw something in front of
345
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:14.440
my face. It was like a vision. And what I
346
00:22:14.539 --> 00:22:19.359
saw was the alien gray. It was right smack in
347
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:22.279
front of my face, as clear as day. And then
348
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.440
as I'm looking at it, and as he's saying that scripture,
349
00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:29.539
it morphed into the most horrific thing I had ever seen.
350
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:35.220
And instantly, I knew what we'd been dealing with. It
351
00:22:35.339 --> 00:22:36.859
wasn't what we thought it was.
352
00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:41.099
Well, that's at the heart of this whole discussion. These
353
00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:44.900
grays are not what the world thinks they are. It's
354
00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:47.960
certainly not how they're portrayed in the media or in
355
00:22:48.029 --> 00:22:50.509
our films and television programs that get into this topic.
356
00:22:52.630 --> 00:22:56.230
How did this change your approach in dealing with experiencers
357
00:22:56.490 --> 00:22:57.470
and abductees?
358
00:22:59.170 --> 00:23:02.950
Well, After I said, stop that video, and I told
359
00:23:02.990 --> 00:23:05.470
the two guys, I said, you know, I've just seen something,
360
00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:07.950
and I've got to share this with you. And I said,
361
00:23:08.089 --> 00:23:11.009
I now know what we've been dealing with, and it's
362
00:23:11.089 --> 00:23:14.589
not extraterrestrial. And I think Wes was pretty surprised, too,
363
00:23:14.670 --> 00:23:18.650
I mean, to hear me say that. And it's like
364
00:23:18.690 --> 00:23:21.410
we didn't know that we knew. We didn't know for sure.
365
00:23:22.250 --> 00:23:25.089
And at that moment, I now knew for sure, but
366
00:23:25.309 --> 00:23:27.410
I didn't have any evidence for it. I just knew
367
00:23:27.430 --> 00:23:30.779
that God had given me something. a piece of information
368
00:23:30.819 --> 00:23:34.769
that I needed to know. And I told Wes, I said,
369
00:23:34.809 --> 00:23:38.150
you know, I'm done with this. I said, we shouldn't
370
00:23:38.190 --> 00:23:41.730
even be involved in doing this research and investigations and
371
00:23:41.769 --> 00:23:45.150
dealing with UFOs and all of that. And he says,
372
00:23:45.170 --> 00:23:48.589
you know, you're right. And we were ready to just
373
00:23:48.789 --> 00:23:52.549
put it away at that point. And we pretty much did.
374
00:23:53.390 --> 00:23:55.119
But a couple of weeks went by and I get
375
00:23:55.150 --> 00:24:00.480
this nagging feeling that, And there's a voice telling me,
376
00:24:01.059 --> 00:24:04.539
you're not done with this. And I don't know where
377
00:24:04.579 --> 00:24:07.920
this is coming from, but I just reply back in
378
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.339
my head, oh, yeah, I'm done with this. And I
379
00:24:10.500 --> 00:24:12.500
come back and I said, no, you're not done with this.
380
00:24:13.579 --> 00:24:18.210
And I figured, well, you know, who's saying this? So
381
00:24:18.230 --> 00:24:20.470
I said, God, if this is coming from you, I said,
382
00:24:22.089 --> 00:24:24.230
I can't be part of this anymore. I said, this
383
00:24:24.309 --> 00:24:28.549
is wrong. I said, what do you want me to
384
00:24:28.609 --> 00:24:31.750
do with this? And it was I needed to take
385
00:24:31.789 --> 00:24:34.670
it back to the people that I came from, which
386
00:24:34.730 --> 00:24:38.470
were people involved in UFOs and involved in the new
387
00:24:38.569 --> 00:24:42.289
age and metaphysics. And I said, God, I can't do that.
388
00:24:42.450 --> 00:24:45.150
I can't take the word of God back to these people.
389
00:24:46.029 --> 00:24:47.759
I used to be part of it. And they don't
390
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:50.220
believe the word of God to be the word of God.
391
00:24:50.259 --> 00:24:53.380
They don't believe it to be inerrant. And they think
392
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:57.480
it's just good stories that have been developed over the years, uh,
393
00:24:57.500 --> 00:24:59.460
to have a good life by like, you know, all
394
00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:02.720
the other different religions out there. And I said, you
395
00:25:02.769 --> 00:25:07.250
got to give me something better than that. Well, as
396
00:25:07.329 --> 00:25:09.630
a new believer, nobody told me, you don't talk back
397
00:25:09.670 --> 00:25:15.369
to God like that. And, uh, I thought, okay, that'll
398
00:25:15.430 --> 00:25:18.970
settle that right there. You know, because what else could
399
00:25:18.990 --> 00:25:22.140
he give me besides the word of God? And, uh,
400
00:25:22.589 --> 00:25:26.339
A couple more weeks went by. And then that voice
401
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:29.359
is back again and it says, you already have it.
402
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:33.660
And I'm thinking, what do you mean I already have it?
403
00:25:33.859 --> 00:25:37.680
What do I already have? And I talked to Wes
404
00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:41.730
about this and Wes was pretty curious about what I
405
00:25:41.789 --> 00:25:45.410
was telling him. And he says, well, let's see what
406
00:25:45.450 --> 00:25:48.849
we do have. And we started looking back at these
407
00:25:48.910 --> 00:25:52.309
different cases we had and There was one he pulled
408
00:25:52.450 --> 00:25:55.890
out that we had done six months before. And it
409
00:25:55.930 --> 00:26:00.150
was a two-hour interview with this fellow. And we happened
410
00:26:00.170 --> 00:26:02.829
to plug it back in. It's like neither one of
411
00:26:02.890 --> 00:26:05.990
us remembered it. Here we got the tape in our hand.
412
00:26:06.130 --> 00:26:11.099
It came from my VHS camcorder. And we did it
413
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:14.440
in the guy's room. And we could barely remember that
414
00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:19.400
being there. So we plugged that tape in. And this
415
00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:23.549
is the tape of Bill D that we've read about
416
00:26:23.609 --> 00:26:29.670
over the years. And in his testimony of his experience,
417
00:26:29.690 --> 00:26:32.930
his abduction experience, and here we had it on tape.
418
00:26:33.450 --> 00:26:36.069
He says that he'd been able to stop the experience
419
00:26:36.130 --> 00:26:38.809
by calling out the name and authority of Jesus Christ.
420
00:26:40.069 --> 00:26:43.789
And I thought, that's not possible. And how come we
421
00:26:43.829 --> 00:26:48.710
don't remember this? And Wes says, I don't know. You know,
422
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:54.369
we don't remember him saying that. But again, we didn't
423
00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:56.490
have the eyes or the ears to hear what this
424
00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.200
man was saying at the time. But now as a believer,
425
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:04.579
we caught this loud and clear. And in our research
426
00:27:04.660 --> 00:27:08.079
and study of abductions at that point, the secular realm,
427
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:13.700
secular researchers said stopping an experience wasn't possible. But yet
428
00:27:13.809 --> 00:27:16.109
here I had a testimony of a person that said
429
00:27:16.150 --> 00:27:20.130
he had stopped it. Mm-hmm. So I said, you know,
430
00:27:20.549 --> 00:27:25.539
we've got something interesting here. And it's interesting on how
431
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.000
he stopped it by using the name and authority of
432
00:27:29.059 --> 00:27:34.779
Jesus Christ. So I questioned in my own mind, is
433
00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:38.000
this real? And I said, Wes, I need to talk
434
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:42.309
to some people. And I contacted a handful of the
435
00:27:42.369 --> 00:27:45.690
top abduction researchers in this country, called them by phone,
436
00:27:45.769 --> 00:27:48.500
called them at home. And, uh, said, guys, I need
437
00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:52.190
some help on a particular case that I'm working with. And, uh,
438
00:27:52.269 --> 00:27:54.410
they said, well, sure. Tell us what you got. And
439
00:27:54.450 --> 00:27:57.890
I tell them the story and, uh, each one of
440
00:27:57.950 --> 00:28:01.829
them asked to go off the record to continue talking
441
00:28:01.869 --> 00:28:02.200
about it.
442
00:28:02.549 --> 00:28:02.849
Really?
443
00:28:02.970 --> 00:28:05.890
And I said, yes. And I said, not a problem.
444
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.400
And off the record means I can tell you what
445
00:28:08.420 --> 00:28:11.960
they said, but I can't tell you who said what. And, uh, I've,
446
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:17.509
I've kept that confidentiality over the years. Um, And that's
447
00:28:17.569 --> 00:28:21.910
an interesting part of the story by keeping that anonymity
448
00:28:22.490 --> 00:28:30.130
for them. They each said– well, I asked them. I said, well,
449
00:28:30.150 --> 00:28:32.960
what about this story? And they said, well, have you
450
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.700
ever come across anything like this? And they each said
451
00:28:36.740 --> 00:28:41.720
that they had. They had come across similar cases. And
452
00:28:41.740 --> 00:28:45.150
I said– If you've come across similar cases, why is
453
00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:49.230
it not written about or spoken about or documented anywhere?
454
00:28:50.990 --> 00:28:53.450
And they said, well, we don't know what to make
455
00:28:53.529 --> 00:28:58.920
of it. But then there was always that second comment
456
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:02.480
they would make. We were afraid to go there because
457
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:08.039
it might affect our credibility in the realm. So they
458
00:29:08.980 --> 00:29:13.650
had information that they had uncovered in their research. And
459
00:29:13.690 --> 00:29:20.180
they decided not to share it with everybody. Isn't that
460
00:29:20.420 --> 00:29:20.980
a cover-up?
461
00:29:21.220 --> 00:29:25.160
Because it didn't fit the preconception of the majority of
462
00:29:25.220 --> 00:29:27.579
people in the field?
463
00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:32.650
Yes. And they didn't want to risk their careers and
464
00:29:32.710 --> 00:29:36.930
the credibility of putting it out there. And I understood
465
00:29:36.970 --> 00:29:40.559
what they were doing. And I said, you know, I
466
00:29:40.579 --> 00:29:43.140
understand where you guys are at. I said, but you've
467
00:29:43.180 --> 00:29:46.819
also enlightened me that there are more cases like the
468
00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:49.740
one I have. And I said, I know you can't
469
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:55.269
take the effort to document them and you don't have
470
00:29:55.289 --> 00:29:57.329
the ability to put that out there. I said, but
471
00:29:57.430 --> 00:30:00.680
I do. I said, I'm new in this research, and
472
00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:03.480
I said, I have the ability, and I want to
473
00:30:03.509 --> 00:30:08.930
take this on. And I started putting these cases together.
474
00:30:11.089 --> 00:30:14.190
We're lucky enough to have a newspaper article done locally,
475
00:30:14.849 --> 00:30:18.250
and that newspaper article went all over the country because
476
00:30:18.589 --> 00:30:22.809
we did it with the Today paper here locally, and
477
00:30:23.789 --> 00:30:28.460
it had 80 affiliates with that paper. And people all
478
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:30.960
over the country saw this article about what we were doing.
479
00:30:31.700 --> 00:30:34.279
And that started it on a roll. I had people
480
00:30:34.339 --> 00:30:37.240
calling in saying, I've had this experience, and I've also
481
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:40.160
stopped it that way. And then the next thing you know,
482
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:43.700
it ended up on the Internet. And it wasn't long
483
00:30:43.779 --> 00:30:47.460
after that, the same article ended up in Flying Saucer Review.
484
00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:51.819
So the word was out there that we were looking
485
00:30:51.859 --> 00:30:52.900
for these testimonies.
486
00:30:53.180 --> 00:30:54.220
Now, this was back in 97, right?
487
00:30:54.259 --> 00:30:54.539
Yes.
488
00:30:54.619 --> 00:30:54.740
Okay.
489
00:30:54.740 --> 00:31:00.900
97, 98. And, I mean, this was, I didn't even
490
00:31:00.940 --> 00:31:03.119
have a computer at the time. Wes had one. He
491
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:07.250
was doing all the computer work. We really, we didn't
492
00:31:07.289 --> 00:31:09.250
even have a website at the time. That didn't come
493
00:31:09.269 --> 00:31:12.390
until a little bit later. We had somebody that volunteered
494
00:31:12.430 --> 00:31:15.849
to help us put a website together. But we started
495
00:31:15.890 --> 00:31:20.289
putting these testimonies together in a database where we could
496
00:31:20.349 --> 00:31:23.509
start recording them and have them to be able for
497
00:31:23.769 --> 00:31:27.160
people to see. And that's what we've been doing for
498
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:33.490
the past 12 years. Yes. I've worked with probably 400
499
00:31:33.490 --> 00:31:35.809
different testimonies over the 12 years.
500
00:31:36.309 --> 00:31:38.289
Well, that was going to be my question as to
501
00:31:38.349 --> 00:31:40.670
how many of these accounts have you come across and
502
00:31:41.009 --> 00:31:46.720
what are the– are there similarities between their accounts? What
503
00:31:46.779 --> 00:31:50.059
are they and what sort of conclusions do they lead
504
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:50.339
you to?
505
00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:56.640
Well– They're very similar. All abduction cases have a similarity
506
00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:02.119
between them, but yet they have differences also. After looking
507
00:32:02.180 --> 00:32:06.380
at this many cases, you realize that the entities behind
508
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:13.019
this experience tailor make it for the person themselves. And
509
00:32:13.660 --> 00:32:16.700
it's like whatever it takes to make that person believe
510
00:32:17.539 --> 00:32:20.069
is what they're going to do. This is why the
511
00:32:20.589 --> 00:32:23.960
differences come up in the experience. I mean, it's generally,
512
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.619
you could call it an abduction experience. That similarity is there,
513
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:33.720
but it's the fine details that always get a little different.
514
00:32:34.059 --> 00:32:37.809
It's always tailored just for that person. And that makes
515
00:32:37.829 --> 00:32:42.869
the research very confusing. Not to me now, but it
516
00:32:42.910 --> 00:32:45.589
did in the beginning. And I think it's still confusing
517
00:32:45.829 --> 00:32:47.740
to a lot of researchers at it. you know, the
518
00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:51.400
secular researchers that look at this. But it was a
519
00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:54.559
final answer when people were saying that, you know, they
520
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:57.819
had stopped the experience, you know, while it was happening.
521
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:03.200
And then I had others that were sharing that, you know,
522
00:33:03.259 --> 00:33:07.500
by getting their faith and their walk back with God,
523
00:33:08.180 --> 00:33:11.680
that they were able to stop the experiences from ever
524
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:15.480
happening again. And that was another thing that the secular
525
00:33:15.509 --> 00:33:19.710
realm says it's not possible. So we were getting some
526
00:33:19.750 --> 00:33:23.940
information here that was very new to the realm. And
527
00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:26.420
we could see that it was going to be very
528
00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:30.900
shocking to the realm. And it would lead to ideas
529
00:33:30.940 --> 00:33:32.799
that they didn't want to deal with, and they still
530
00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:33.440
don't today.
531
00:33:33.460 --> 00:33:37.490
Yeah, I can imagine. It turns the whole paradigm on
532
00:33:37.529 --> 00:33:37.789
its head.
533
00:33:38.529 --> 00:33:43.269
Sure, it does. Now, we have about, I think there's
534
00:33:43.710 --> 00:33:46.970
right at 90 testimonies posted on the website right now
535
00:33:47.690 --> 00:33:52.539
in written form and in audio form. We've had the
536
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:56.059
pleasure of working with Byron LeBeau from Cursed Net Radio,
537
00:33:56.460 --> 00:33:59.740
and he's been taking the testimonies, as many as I
538
00:33:59.779 --> 00:34:01.920
can get on there, and interviewing them so that we
539
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:06.869
have their actual voice heard. and giving their testimony. It's
540
00:34:06.950 --> 00:34:09.630
much more powerful than just reading a testimony. Sure.
541
00:34:10.469 --> 00:34:11.869
And by the way, I'll put a link to those
542
00:34:12.449 --> 00:34:15.679
audio clips and to those written testimonies in the show
543
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:21.579
notes at pidradio.com. So as you began to accumulate this
544
00:34:21.699 --> 00:34:27.579
body of data and you kept running across this similar
545
00:34:28.539 --> 00:34:31.519
part of the account that the abductions were stopped or prevented,
546
00:34:32.429 --> 00:34:34.969
through calling on the power and authority of Jesus Christ.
547
00:34:35.730 --> 00:34:40.179
Did you find that there were certain methods or manners
548
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:46.519
in which Jesus had to be called upon? I mean,
549
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:51.699
what were some of the, I guess going back to
550
00:34:51.739 --> 00:34:54.860
the previous question, some of the similarities in the accounts
551
00:34:55.059 --> 00:34:57.880
that really kind of cemented this idea for you?
552
00:34:59.539 --> 00:35:05.010
Well, We see it happen two ways. Usually the people
553
00:35:05.070 --> 00:35:08.530
are in, and this is most of the time, they're
554
00:35:08.590 --> 00:35:12.769
in sheer panic while the experience is going on, during
555
00:35:12.789 --> 00:35:18.510
the experience. They're in utter fear. And most of them
556
00:35:18.610 --> 00:35:24.449
are Christians, but not walk-the-walk Christians. They're Christians. They do believe,
557
00:35:25.130 --> 00:35:29.210
but they haven't focused their life on a really good
558
00:35:29.289 --> 00:35:33.269
Christian walk. They've opened doors that they shouldn't have. And
559
00:35:33.610 --> 00:35:37.789
the experience has been allowed to happen. But their last resort,
560
00:35:38.150 --> 00:35:41.309
it's like there's no atheists in the foxhole when the
561
00:35:41.369 --> 00:35:44.690
bombs are coming down around you. You know, that little saying.
562
00:35:45.590 --> 00:35:50.400
They know to call on that name. And I tell you,
563
00:35:50.420 --> 00:35:54.079
it changes their life. Not only does it stop the experience,
564
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.940
but they recognize the true power in that name. And
565
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:02.119
they really get their walk back where it should be.
566
00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:06.099
It's like they're not taking this on faith anymore. They've
567
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:12.159
got the evidence to know that this is real. And
568
00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:15.599
they also recognize that this is not alien in nature
569
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:19.300
because a lot of the experiencers are able to see
570
00:36:19.340 --> 00:36:24.440
the entities morph in their appearance during the experience when
571
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:29.659
they call in that name. And they recognize that the alien,
572
00:36:31.489 --> 00:36:36.269
the look of the extraterrestrial is a facade that these
573
00:36:36.389 --> 00:36:44.380
entities use. And they've probably used different facades over time,
574
00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:48.420
over the centuries, to deceive mankind. But the one they're
575
00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:53.280
using now is of an extraterrestrial of high technology, of
576
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:58.300
thousands or millions of years ahead of us. It's one
577
00:36:58.340 --> 00:37:00.679
that we would fall for. We wouldn't fall for elves
578
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:06.510
and fairies today. So the enemy has changed. It's the
579
00:37:06.570 --> 00:37:07.570
emperor's new clothes.
580
00:37:08.090 --> 00:37:09.170
They're hitting us where we are.
581
00:37:09.889 --> 00:37:10.409
Yes.
582
00:37:10.769 --> 00:37:14.639
Doing what's necessary to relate to us in our 21st
583
00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:16.380
century scientistic culture.
584
00:37:17.139 --> 00:37:17.380
Yes.
585
00:37:19.219 --> 00:37:21.980
When you said open doors, how do people do that?
586
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:27.480
Well, Working with this many cases, we were able to
587
00:37:27.539 --> 00:37:32.659
put some really good findings together. And this is important
588
00:37:34.539 --> 00:37:37.440
for your people that are listening. What we found is
589
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:42.010
there's at least three different ways that the experience comes
590
00:37:42.309 --> 00:37:46.050
to a person. One, believe it or not, people ask
591
00:37:46.110 --> 00:37:50.610
for it. We've been working tables at conferences where people
592
00:37:50.630 --> 00:37:53.150
will come up to us seeing that we work with
593
00:37:53.210 --> 00:37:57.139
abduction research. And not really knowing what we do with it,
594
00:37:57.309 --> 00:38:00.949
but coming right out of their mouth as they meet us,
595
00:38:00.949 --> 00:38:03.719
they're going, I'd really like to experience that, to know
596
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:07.619
what that's about. Well, be very careful what you ask
597
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:12.480
for because these entities are listening. And that's just taking
598
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:15.000
the doorknob and turning it and opening it up yourself.
599
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:22.820
But that's not everybody. A majority of them don't. They've
600
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:32.639
opened doors unknowingly. They've dabbled in ungodly things that creates
601
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:35.920
that open door. They lose that protection as a believer,
602
00:38:37.019 --> 00:38:39.820
whether it be dealing with the occult, dabbling in the
603
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:44.300
new age, dabbling in paranormal, and this whole idea of
604
00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:48.230
looking at ghosts. Scripture tells us what that's about. But
605
00:38:48.289 --> 00:38:54.480
people have a curiosity about it. And just that curiosity
606
00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:57.510
and taking the step to want to know more about
607
00:38:57.570 --> 00:39:01.090
it is opening that door. And a lot of them
608
00:39:01.170 --> 00:39:05.849
have the experience because they've unknowingly opened a door. And
609
00:39:05.929 --> 00:39:08.849
we're able to take them back in the investigation and
610
00:39:09.030 --> 00:39:12.119
usually help them find out where that door opened up
611
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.960
at and help them get it closed. And that's how
612
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.039
we work with helping them stop the experience from happening
613
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:23.500
anymore in their life. But then the third one puzzled
614
00:39:23.559 --> 00:39:26.730
us for a while. We had adults that would come
615
00:39:26.789 --> 00:39:30.440
to us telling us their stories and they remember having
616
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:35.340
their experiences early in the life back at four, five,
617
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:39.659
six years old. And we got to thinking about that,
618
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:42.730
and I'm going, you know, children are too innocent to
619
00:39:42.889 --> 00:39:46.900
openly ask for this and mean it. And They're too
620
00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:52.260
innocent and unknowledge to unknowingly open a door, you know,
621
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:55.239
into the occult or anything else. They're too young for
622
00:39:55.260 --> 00:39:58.550
that to know what to do. So where is this
623
00:39:58.590 --> 00:40:03.929
coming from? Well, as I started listening to the testimonies,
624
00:40:04.789 --> 00:40:08.409
I also started asking them, what was your family like,
625
00:40:08.849 --> 00:40:12.570
family life like growing up? You know, what were your
626
00:40:12.610 --> 00:40:16.139
parents like? Where did you live? What did your parents do?
627
00:40:16.260 --> 00:40:20.619
Were they religious people? And you know what? We found
628
00:40:20.659 --> 00:40:26.150
the open doors with the parents. And what was happening
629
00:40:26.269 --> 00:40:29.710
is because the parents did not have the spiritual covering
630
00:40:30.170 --> 00:40:34.820
over the family like they're supposed to, like scripture says
631
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:39.900
we're supposed to, that those kids were wide open just
632
00:40:39.980 --> 00:40:43.159
as the parents were. They were unprotected.
633
00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:47.340
That's a terrifying thought that the actions of the parents
634
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:51.130
can expose innocent children to this kind of behavior, this
635
00:40:51.170 --> 00:40:51.829
kind of terror.
636
00:40:52.730 --> 00:40:59.449
Absolutely. And they've already seen that this is generational. And, uh,
637
00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:01.800
one of the cases that I've worked with and I've
638
00:41:01.820 --> 00:41:05.239
had her at most of my talks, Joyce Aaron's, um,
639
00:41:05.860 --> 00:41:10.980
you can see that it's affected three generations of that family. And, uh,
640
00:41:12.300 --> 00:41:14.480
Because the door was open somewhere, and I think it
641
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:20.159
was open prior to Joyce and her husband. And it
642
00:41:20.219 --> 00:41:24.320
goes back farther than that. We may never get to
643
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:26.880
where the actual door was open, but that doesn't mean
644
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:30.980
you can't stop it from happening anymore. And we're actually
645
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:32.619
seeing that in her family.
646
00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:36.940
Now, in your book, Unholy Communion, the Alien Abduction Phenomenon,
647
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:40.519
where it originates and how it stops, you kind of
648
00:41:40.539 --> 00:41:45.219
described– And just quickly, when will this book be available?
649
00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:50.760
The book's supposed to be released April 1st, and it's
650
00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:59.900
available now for pre-order on Focus and the Family, books.com, christianbooks.com, amazon.com,
651
00:41:59.940 --> 00:42:02.519
Barnes & Noble, Books A Million. They've all got it
652
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:06.539
available right now for pre-order. And just to give you
653
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:09.869
a little background on the book, I had wanted to
654
00:42:09.909 --> 00:42:12.929
get this story out there in book form for many,
655
00:42:12.969 --> 00:42:18.019
many years, but I am not a writer. I can't
656
00:42:18.099 --> 00:42:21.619
even write my own sister and brother a letter. You know,
657
00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:23.960
I'll pick up the phone and talk to them, but
658
00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:27.780
I cannot write anything. And, uh, I tried and tried
659
00:42:27.820 --> 00:42:32.429
and tried in 2005. I had the opportunity to meet, uh,
660
00:42:32.590 --> 00:42:38.760
Dave Ruffino from delusion resistance. And Dave lives out in California. And, uh,
661
00:42:39.230 --> 00:42:44.010
We agreed to meet at Roswell in summer of 2005
662
00:42:44.010 --> 00:42:46.849
at one of the Ancient of Days conferences we had there.
663
00:42:47.610 --> 00:42:50.599
And I like Dave, and we were both on to
664
00:42:50.619 --> 00:42:53.920
the same type of research. He was just getting into
665
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:57.539
it at the level that I was working into it
666
00:42:58.099 --> 00:43:01.079
and had been in for 10 years. And I'd read
667
00:43:01.099 --> 00:43:03.800
a lot of the writings Dave had done, and he
668
00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:08.739
is an excellent writer. He does great. Really, really good
669
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:14.360
articles and stories. And I saw an opportunity there to
670
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.340
take the two of us together, the research that I
671
00:43:17.380 --> 00:43:20.739
had been doing all this time, and have Dave help
672
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:24.809
write this story. And this is what we were able
673
00:43:24.949 --> 00:43:27.570
to put together. I was able to bring him the
674
00:43:27.630 --> 00:43:31.889
testimonies and what we had done and what we had discovered,
675
00:43:31.989 --> 00:43:34.570
and he put it together in a book form. So
676
00:43:34.630 --> 00:43:38.809
Dave is the actual writer of the book. And I
677
00:43:38.889 --> 00:43:43.010
still tried to put my personal testimony together to have
678
00:43:43.070 --> 00:43:46.719
in this book, and I still couldn't do it. As
679
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:48.940
we got down to where we knew this book needed
680
00:43:48.980 --> 00:43:51.699
to get out, I was dealing– I lost my mother
681
00:43:51.739 --> 00:43:56.940
a year ago. My dad's– he's having issues, and I
682
00:43:56.980 --> 00:44:00.090
was dealing with possibly losing my job. So it was
683
00:44:00.130 --> 00:44:03.090
just like this wasn't coming together, not in time to
684
00:44:03.130 --> 00:44:06.010
get it into the books. I said, Dave– Let's take
685
00:44:06.050 --> 00:44:09.489
what we've got. You've done an excellent job here. I said,
686
00:44:09.550 --> 00:44:12.389
it's both of ours work. Let's get this book out
687
00:44:12.449 --> 00:44:16.820
there in people's hands. So Tom Horn picked it up
688
00:44:16.860 --> 00:44:21.119
from Raiders News Network, and he's the publisher for us.
689
00:44:21.820 --> 00:44:24.199
And he's done a great job getting this thing marketed
690
00:44:24.219 --> 00:44:27.599
before it's even come out. And we're looking forward to
691
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:30.480
having it out there. Well, it's, I just, I want
692
00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:32.579
people to know that, you know, Dave is the actual
693
00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:35.219
writer of the book. When, when they see what, you know,
694
00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:38.599
he's done, he explains this so well, you know, I
695
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:41.519
could speak to the entire book, you know, I do
696
00:44:41.539 --> 00:44:44.360
with my talks, but I just couldn't put it in
697
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:46.300
written form like he did. I mean, he's done a
698
00:44:46.340 --> 00:44:46.880
great job.
699
00:44:47.340 --> 00:44:48.980
Well, the question I had, and I wanted to get,
700
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:51.000
you know, the title of the book in there and
701
00:44:51.059 --> 00:44:53.989
mention that this is still forthcoming has not yet been released, but, uh,
702
00:44:54.309 --> 00:44:56.909
you've described over the last 45 minutes or so, um.
703
00:44:58.659 --> 00:44:59.099
The.
704
00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:05.019
Ability of experiencers to stop an abduction in process by
705
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:07.820
calling on the name and the authority of Jesus Christ.
706
00:45:08.699 --> 00:45:13.449
But when you've got an ongoing situation, a generational curse,
707
00:45:13.550 --> 00:45:19.989
if you will, how do you approach that situation? How
708
00:45:20.010 --> 00:45:21.530
do you stop something like that?
709
00:45:24.349 --> 00:45:28.340
Well, just to give an example, Working with Joyce Ahrens,
710
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:32.219
you know, the story that Joyce and her husband have
711
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:37.019
start with them, public story. Their story has been out
712
00:45:37.059 --> 00:45:39.079
there for 10 years on the A & E channel.
713
00:45:39.260 --> 00:45:42.989
It airs every year on a show about abductions. And
714
00:45:44.429 --> 00:45:47.969
that story started out where they were in bed at night,
715
00:45:48.230 --> 00:45:54.289
and under hypnotic regression, they remember seeing their daughter, baby daughter,
716
00:45:54.329 --> 00:45:59.389
being taken from the crib. Mm-hmm. And that was coming
717
00:45:59.469 --> 00:46:04.409
out of hypnotic regression that was being done on them.
718
00:46:04.429 --> 00:46:08.949
And both of them had recalled the same experience. But
719
00:46:09.030 --> 00:46:11.949
over the years, they realized that not only had they
720
00:46:12.010 --> 00:46:16.880
had this experience, but their son and daughter both were experiencers.
721
00:46:16.900 --> 00:46:20.119
And later, they were seeing that the grandchildren were showing
722
00:46:20.179 --> 00:46:24.510
signs of it too at a young age. And When
723
00:46:24.530 --> 00:46:28.059
I was able to meet Joyce, she had left her family.
724
00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:32.840
It had broken the family up. And she left the
725
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:36.429
family and got in her car and ended up in Florida.
726
00:46:37.409 --> 00:46:41.530
And it's quite interesting that she ended up here and
727
00:46:41.570 --> 00:46:47.389
meeting me. And when I first met her, she wanted
728
00:46:47.409 --> 00:46:50.800
to share her whole experience about being an abductee and
729
00:46:50.860 --> 00:46:52.619
all of that. She knew I was with MUFON, but
730
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:56.780
she didn't know what I was actually doing with experiencers.
731
00:46:56.840 --> 00:47:02.360
And when I shared that, it changed her life. And
732
00:47:02.420 --> 00:47:05.260
she stayed here in Florida, lived here in Florida for
733
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:08.539
about three more years. And I had her going to
734
00:47:08.579 --> 00:47:12.300
my church and she became one of the most powerful
735
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:16.900
people that I have seen as a believer. Her life
736
00:47:16.980 --> 00:47:21.579
was absolutely changed And her love for the Lord is
737
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:26.619
just phenomenal. And then one day, she was on her.
738
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:27.119
Way to work.
739
00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:32.739
She worked as a florist. And she just had this
740
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:36.320
something told her to go to the beach. And she
741
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:38.400
drove out to the beach. She had her dress on
742
00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:40.719
and everything that she was going to work in, kicked
743
00:47:40.780 --> 00:47:43.800
off her shoes, walked down to the beach. And the
744
00:47:43.860 --> 00:47:48.170
Lord told her, it's time to go home. And she
745
00:47:48.210 --> 00:47:50.610
went back home, and her husband greeted her at the
746
00:47:50.630 --> 00:47:54.550
door and took her in. And she hasn't been preaching
747
00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:59.880
to her family, but she's been standing her ground. And
748
00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:04.320
she's been continuing to go with me at conferences like Roswell.
749
00:48:04.940 --> 00:48:08.280
I just had her here recently back in November. Guy
750
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:12.550
and Nicole came and Chris Ward, and we had like
751
00:48:12.670 --> 00:48:16.630
a 10-year reunion for Alien Resistance. And we all spoke
752
00:48:16.670 --> 00:48:21.969
here in Florida. And Joyce came again. And so they've
753
00:48:21.989 --> 00:48:25.969
been watching her and seeing how her life's changed. And
754
00:48:26.429 --> 00:48:30.690
it is affecting the rest of the family. I can't
755
00:48:30.730 --> 00:48:33.250
go into too much of that just yet. But I
756
00:48:33.289 --> 00:48:37.820
will tell you it's making a major difference in that family.
757
00:48:38.019 --> 00:48:41.219
So it only takes one to bring it home and
758
00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:46.079
stop that chain from happening, from continuing.
759
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:49.460
And again, it's calling on the power and the authority
760
00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:55.380
of Jesus Christ to intervene and rebuke these entities. Now,
761
00:48:56.139 --> 00:49:00.480
we read in the book of Jude that even Michael,
762
00:49:00.969 --> 00:49:08.030
the archangel, didn't rebuke Satan directly. And maybe I'm jumping
763
00:49:08.070 --> 00:49:14.150
ahead here by identifying the enemy, but I want to
764
00:49:14.170 --> 00:49:15.929
come back to that in a second, what these things
765
00:49:15.969 --> 00:49:19.730
really are. Is there a danger in people trying to
766
00:49:19.750 --> 00:49:26.619
take on themselves the authority in rebuking these entities during
767
00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:29.780
an abduction experience? In other words, instead of saying, you know,
768
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:32.719
in the name of Jesus Christ, you know, Jesus Christ
769
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:34.780
rebuke you, or the Lord rebuke you in the name
770
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:38.630
of Jesus Christ, instead of saying, I rebuke you, I mean,
771
00:49:39.190 --> 00:49:40.829
I guess what I'm asking is, is there a right
772
00:49:40.929 --> 00:49:42.610
way and a wrong way to do this?
773
00:49:44.030 --> 00:49:48.929
Yes. And Chris Ward brought this to our attention years ago,
774
00:49:49.699 --> 00:49:54.480
and he deals in deliverance ministry. And he shared that
775
00:49:54.519 --> 00:49:56.960
with us. He says, when you're helping these people and
776
00:49:57.199 --> 00:49:59.920
sharing this information, he says, you know, if you're teaching
777
00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:02.889
them how to rebuke the enemy, tell them, do not
778
00:50:02.949 --> 00:50:07.239
take this on personally. You know, you want christ jesus
779
00:50:07.300 --> 00:50:10.800
to take on the enemy so when you actually have
780
00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:14.090
the opportunity to rebuke the enemy he said it's done
781
00:50:14.150 --> 00:50:17.809
by saying christ jesus rebuke you not i rebuke you
782
00:50:18.369 --> 00:50:22.269
because you yourself have no authority you know it's through
783
00:50:22.340 --> 00:50:26.440
christ that the authority is there and the enemy knows
784
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:29.400
these little tricks i think there was actually scripture where
785
00:50:29.420 --> 00:50:34.599
um The apostles had been out trying to do that,
786
00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:37.719
and there were a couple spirits they came across where
787
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:41.119
they weren't able to. And it says, Paul, I know,
788
00:50:41.179 --> 00:50:42.800
and Peter, I know, but who are you?
789
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:46.360
Right, yeah, the sons of Shiva.
790
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:47.320
Yeah.
791
00:50:47.460 --> 00:50:49.940
Yeah, who wound up naked and bleeding in the street.
792
00:50:49.960 --> 00:50:50.039
Yeah.
793
00:50:50.099 --> 00:50:50.300
Yeah.
794
00:50:52.070 --> 00:50:53.269
Take a lesson from that.
795
00:50:53.389 --> 00:50:55.230
Right. Well, and again, and that's why I referred to
796
00:50:55.269 --> 00:50:57.789
the verse in Jude, that not even the archangel Michael
797
00:50:57.929 --> 00:51:01.389
dared to rebuke Satan personally when they were wrestling over
798
00:51:01.429 --> 00:51:02.469
the body of Moses.
799
00:51:03.329 --> 00:51:03.650
Sure.
800
00:51:03.730 --> 00:51:06.869
But yet, you know, called on the authority of God. So,
801
00:51:07.530 --> 00:51:10.780
and I ask because I've read from other deliverance ministers
802
00:51:11.619 --> 00:51:13.559
who have said that, in fact, it can be dangerous
803
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:16.199
if you take that upon yourself. You actually may invite
804
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:20.590
more trouble. if you try to do it without calling
805
00:51:20.630 --> 00:51:22.409
on the power and the authority of Jesus Christ and
806
00:51:22.449 --> 00:51:26.389
rebuking them and asking him, praying for him to take
807
00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:26.920
on the enemy.
808
00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:31.079
Now, there's a key scripture in Ephesians that I think
809
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:35.559
doesn't get addressed as much as it should. When people
810
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:40.130
get into Ephesians and the spiritual warfare section, starting with
811
00:51:40.769 --> 00:51:45.659
Ephesians 6.12, which identifies who the enemy is, And then
812
00:51:45.699 --> 00:51:49.010
the next group of scriptures get into putting on the
813
00:51:49.030 --> 00:51:53.949
whole armor of God. You hear that sermon taught in
814
00:51:53.989 --> 00:51:57.769
churches over and over. Right. And I've heard it many
815
00:51:57.849 --> 00:52:02.179
times myself. They teach you to take on these pieces
816
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:06.460
of the armor as your protection against the wiles of
817
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:11.699
the enemy. But I started to study that and looking
818
00:52:11.719 --> 00:52:15.130
at that very closely. And what they're describing there, let's
819
00:52:15.250 --> 00:52:20.010
use the analogy of a football player instead. Football player
820
00:52:20.070 --> 00:52:26.179
puts on special shoes, shin guards, thigh pads, shoulder pads,
821
00:52:26.199 --> 00:52:31.320
you know, mouth guard, helmet, the whole works for protection.
822
00:52:31.340 --> 00:52:33.199
Okay?
823
00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:36.449
Now you've got him protected. And then you tell him
824
00:52:36.489 --> 00:52:39.130
to go out there and stand. And that's what that
825
00:52:39.170 --> 00:52:42.250
last scripture says do. Take the sword of the spirit
826
00:52:42.289 --> 00:52:45.099
and you know, the word of God and to stand. Okay.
827
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:48.320
So you've got this guy in defense mode with all
828
00:52:48.340 --> 00:52:53.880
of his protection on, and he's in a game, which
829
00:52:53.940 --> 00:52:59.780
we would relate to spiritual warfare, but this game, you
830
00:52:59.800 --> 00:53:02.500
have to be able to score a win or a loss.
831
00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:06.239
If you're only in defense mode in this football game,
832
00:53:06.440 --> 00:53:07.219
can you score?
833
00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:08.440
Not usually.
834
00:53:08.460 --> 00:53:13.619
Can you, can you win? Not usually. Not usually. So
835
00:53:13.699 --> 00:53:19.389
something was missing there because you can learn to put
836
00:53:19.489 --> 00:53:24.329
all of this armor on, spiritual armor, for protection. But
837
00:53:24.369 --> 00:53:27.349
you know what? You're going to get tired. You're going
838
00:53:27.369 --> 00:53:29.750
to get weak points in it, and the enemy is
839
00:53:29.829 --> 00:53:32.010
going to get you in those weak points in your
840
00:53:32.050 --> 00:53:34.840
time of weakness because you can't stand there forever.
841
00:53:35.179 --> 00:53:35.340
Mm-hmm.
842
00:53:36.340 --> 00:53:39.980
You know, and people know this, you know, I used
843
00:53:40.019 --> 00:53:43.039
to listen to this scripture about praying without ceasing. How
844
00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:46.889
is that possible? And the more I thought about it,
845
00:53:46.900 --> 00:53:51.139
the more it's just, I realized that's keeping in that
846
00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:56.690
fellowship all the time. Okay. Being in the spirit all
847
00:53:56.730 --> 00:53:59.909
the time. And it's very hard to do and live
848
00:53:59.969 --> 00:54:03.070
a normal life, you know, because you got things interfering
849
00:54:03.130 --> 00:54:06.820
and interrupting it all the time. Focus. Well, this is
850
00:54:06.860 --> 00:54:10.199
the same thing in that armor. You're going to lose focus.
851
00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:13.119
You're going to lose strength, and you're going to weak.
852
00:54:13.340 --> 00:54:16.079
You're going to fall apart, and the enemy is going
853
00:54:16.099 --> 00:54:18.559
to get you in those weak areas. So there had
854
00:54:18.599 --> 00:54:22.400
to be something else to be able to defeat the enemy.
855
00:54:23.500 --> 00:54:27.280
And I found it two scriptures later, and they don't
856
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:32.730
really get that far. They stop at verse 17, but
857
00:54:32.909 --> 00:54:37.340
verse 19 was very important, I found. And it says
858
00:54:37.409 --> 00:54:40.219
that utterance may be given unto me that I may
859
00:54:40.420 --> 00:54:45.699
open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of
860
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:50.320
the gospel. That's in the same context as this spiritual
861
00:54:50.389 --> 00:54:58.250
warfare section. What was the offensive physical move? Open my
862
00:54:58.329 --> 00:55:03.119
mouth boldly. Right. What are you doing when you open
863
00:55:03.139 --> 00:55:07.519
your mouth boldly? You're making known the mystery of the gospel.
864
00:55:07.539 --> 00:55:12.389
What's the mystery of the gospel? Mystery meaning it was
865
00:55:12.469 --> 00:55:17.329
something that was hidden for a time and then revealed.
866
00:55:19.989 --> 00:55:24.289
It's Christ in you. The enemy had no idea that
867
00:55:24.329 --> 00:55:27.710
that was going to happen. That every believer would have
868
00:55:27.769 --> 00:55:29.710
that authority of Christ in him.
869
00:55:30.010 --> 00:55:30.250
Yeah.
870
00:55:30.949 --> 00:55:33.539
That could defeat him. They thought the enemy thought that
871
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:37.280
he had won. when Christ was crucified on that cross.
872
00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:42.739
He did not realize that after that, those that came
873
00:55:42.780 --> 00:55:47.250
to believe would receive the Holy Spirit and that authority
874
00:55:47.289 --> 00:55:52.170
would be passed down to where we could rebuke the
875
00:55:52.230 --> 00:55:56.250
enemy through the power and authority and name of Jesus Christ.
876
00:55:57.190 --> 00:56:01.449
So there, that verse 19, this is what these people
877
00:56:01.489 --> 00:56:06.880
have done. They've called out. During this spiritual battle, which
878
00:56:06.949 --> 00:56:11.880
is the abduction experience that they're having. And they've made
879
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:17.300
the enemy know that they have Christ in them. And
880
00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:19.579
this is something that you had asked before. How is
881
00:56:19.619 --> 00:56:23.380
this done? And I said there's a couple ways. One
882
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:28.320
is they call out in absolute authority to Christ Jesus
883
00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:31.539
rebuke you. I rebuke you. Leave me alone. I rebuke you.
884
00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:35.159
You must leave. But that's not all the time. There
885
00:56:35.179 --> 00:56:37.679
are some people that just call out in fear, and
886
00:56:37.780 --> 00:56:40.440
all they can get out of their mouth is Jesus, Jesus,
887
00:56:41.019 --> 00:56:47.400
or Jesus, help me. But I tell you what, you've
888
00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:52.139
just made known your heart to the enemy, and he
889
00:56:52.300 --> 00:56:56.449
has to recognize that. The enemy has to back down
890
00:56:58.349 --> 00:57:00.349
because you just claimed that authority.
891
00:57:02.389 --> 00:57:04.650
And again, this is something you've seen over the course
892
00:57:04.869 --> 00:57:07.289
of literally hundreds of cases now?
893
00:57:07.730 --> 00:57:10.969
Yes. Yes. And you can read about a lot of
894
00:57:10.989 --> 00:57:15.639
these right there on the website. I've worked with over 400.
895
00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:18.360
I'm still working with new cases coming in all the time.
896
00:57:18.400 --> 00:57:20.420
The more we get this out there, the more come in.
897
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:25.559
Why do I only have about 90 up on the website?
898
00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:31.210
Because my first and foremost job working with these abductees
899
00:57:31.230 --> 00:57:36.550
is is to help them. And if I can help
900
00:57:36.590 --> 00:57:42.590
them get their lives back to normal, okay, to help
901
00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:47.260
them put this completely away and get their lives back
902
00:57:47.300 --> 00:57:49.500
to where they believe that they can be happy again,
903
00:57:51.219 --> 00:57:55.860
that's what I want. And I'm fine with that. The
904
00:57:55.860 --> 00:57:59.829
90 testimonies that I do have mounted up there, those
905
00:57:59.909 --> 00:58:04.519
are ones from of these 400 that felt they wanted
906
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:07.900
to help somebody else and they didn't mind putting their
907
00:58:07.940 --> 00:58:12.849
testimony out there. I don't require that from everybody. I
908
00:58:12.889 --> 00:58:15.449
do tell them that I would love to have your
909
00:58:15.489 --> 00:58:18.090
testimony to be able to help somebody else get free
910
00:58:18.130 --> 00:58:22.949
from this, to show that this is really happening. And
911
00:58:22.989 --> 00:58:26.190
that's what we've been doing all these years is trying
912
00:58:26.230 --> 00:58:30.389
to compile that publicly to show the secular realm that
913
00:58:30.429 --> 00:58:33.250
this is real. And when I do my talks, like
914
00:58:33.269 --> 00:58:37.150
the talks I've done at Roswell over the years, if
915
00:58:37.190 --> 00:58:40.130
you've watched my talks, at the end of every talk,
916
00:58:40.869 --> 00:58:46.090
when I'm closing, I say, I can tell you, the audience,
917
00:58:46.670 --> 00:58:50.570
that what I have here is real. I can say,
918
00:58:50.630 --> 00:58:54.030
trust me in what I'm saying. But I tell you,
919
00:58:54.139 --> 00:58:58.360
don't trust me. Trust the evidence. And at the end
920
00:58:58.380 --> 00:59:02.250
of my talks, I bring evidence. live evidence up there
921
00:59:02.309 --> 00:59:07.769
for them to meet. Real testimonies. People that you see
922
00:59:08.090 --> 00:59:10.780
on that website and you've heard, you can hear on
923
00:59:10.820 --> 00:59:15.849
those radio show interviews. They've been with me in Roswell.
924
00:59:15.889 --> 00:59:18.389
They've been with me at my talks. The talk we
925
00:59:18.409 --> 00:59:21.230
just had here in Florida back in November, I had
926
00:59:21.269 --> 00:59:23.849
eight people right up on front and I gave them
927
00:59:23.889 --> 00:59:26.130
a chance to say a little piece themselves. We'll have
928
00:59:26.170 --> 00:59:30.539
that video out here shortly. But my 2008 talk, you know,
929
00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:35.739
that stunned the UFO community. You know, that particular talk
930
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:37.840
that Dave Ruffino and I did that year when I
931
00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:42.639
was running the conference, you know, we've heard that thing.
932
00:59:43.409 --> 00:59:47.250
It's been given a nickname of the 2008 Roswell incident
933
00:59:49.630 --> 00:59:54.199
because they, you know, they were really upset that, We
934
00:59:54.219 --> 00:59:59.739
brought that talk to center stage. And every talk that
935
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:02.369
I've ever done where I bring the testimonies up, and
936
01:00:02.530 --> 01:00:06.610
even that talk, as big as it was, I say
937
01:00:06.630 --> 01:00:12.630
test the testimonies. Test the evidence. Come speak to them.
938
01:00:13.449 --> 01:00:17.840
Ask them questions. Quiz them. Find out if they're real.
939
01:00:19.139 --> 01:00:21.739
But you know what? They won't do it.
940
01:00:23.460 --> 01:00:25.900
I would kill the tourism industry in Roswell for one thing.
941
01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.659
But you're right, because the main thing is that it
942
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:31.079
stands the whole paradigm on its head, and it's a
943
01:00:31.139 --> 01:00:34.599
paradigm that's been developed by the enemy as a deception.
944
01:00:35.300 --> 01:00:39.119
Yes. So they come after me as a Christian. They
945
01:00:39.139 --> 01:00:43.840
try to come after me and destroy my Christianity. They
946
01:00:43.860 --> 01:00:48.250
come after me personally because they don't dare attack the
947
01:00:48.309 --> 01:00:54.179
evidence because they can't. Mm-hmm. I've only had a couple
948
01:00:54.199 --> 01:00:57.199
of researchers that have tried to attack the evidence, and
949
01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:00.679
I tell you that they just put both feet in
950
01:01:00.699 --> 01:01:06.050
their mouth. To say that these people are deceived in
951
01:01:06.110 --> 01:01:10.050
what they've experienced, you know what the danger is in that?
952
01:01:10.969 --> 01:01:15.929
That means if you're taking certain experiencer stories and saying
953
01:01:15.969 --> 01:01:19.219
that you can't trust them, then you can't trust any
954
01:01:19.260 --> 01:01:19.420
of them.
955
01:01:19.619 --> 01:01:20.400
Right, yeah.
956
01:01:21.510 --> 01:01:26.289
And that's the danger in attacking the testimonies. And they
957
01:01:26.309 --> 01:01:27.210
know they can't touch it.
958
01:01:27.769 --> 01:01:32.550
And again, especially as many as you have collected. And
959
01:01:33.469 --> 01:01:36.519
it's amazing that so many were gracious enough to allow
960
01:01:36.579 --> 01:01:39.019
their testimonies to be posted to the Internet, both written
961
01:01:39.059 --> 01:01:41.840
testimony and audio. And as I mentioned before, we'll put
962
01:01:41.900 --> 01:01:44.880
links to those in the show notes at PIDradio.com. And
963
01:01:44.900 --> 01:01:49.039
you've also got the video of the 2008 Roswell incident online.
964
01:01:49.960 --> 01:01:52.179
And I'll put a link to that video. As well
965
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:53.699
on the show notes so people can see that.
966
01:01:54.699 --> 01:01:58.789
Joe, how do people– I've got the 2009 talk online. Oh,
967
01:01:58.869 --> 01:01:59.670
I'm sorry. Okay.
968
01:01:59.789 --> 01:02:01.329
I misunderstood.
969
01:02:02.030 --> 01:02:05.670
The 2008, I have it online in Audio Farm. Okay.
970
01:02:06.110 --> 01:02:08.210
I still make that one available if they'd like to
971
01:02:08.250 --> 01:02:12.110
purchase it. That conference cost me some money, and I'd
972
01:02:12.130 --> 01:02:14.130
still like to be able to recoup a little bit
973
01:02:14.150 --> 01:02:15.289
and pack on that conference.
974
01:02:15.309 --> 01:02:16.050
That's understandable.
975
01:02:16.090 --> 01:02:20.849
So I do take something for the 2008. But I
976
01:02:20.889 --> 01:02:24.699
have the 2009 that we just did this year in Roswell.
977
01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:28.019
And I did put that one up online for free.
978
01:02:28.199 --> 01:02:31.280
It's on a Vimeo link that we have, and you
979
01:02:31.300 --> 01:02:35.780
can watch that entire talk. And most everybody that saw
980
01:02:35.840 --> 01:02:38.389
that talk or has seen that talk, they thought that
981
01:02:38.429 --> 01:02:42.780
was the best one that I've done. Actually, 2008 and
982
01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:47.480
2009 were two different settings. Dave Ruffino and I, in 2008,
983
01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:52.000
we were speaking to the secular world. This year, in 2009,
984
01:02:51.980 --> 01:02:53.440
we were speaking to the Christian world.
985
01:02:53.559 --> 01:02:55.139
Right, the Christian symposium.
986
01:02:55.480 --> 01:02:55.659
Yes.
987
01:02:55.780 --> 01:02:57.860
Well, I'll put links to both of those then so
988
01:02:57.909 --> 01:03:01.510
that people can find the DVD of the 2008 talk
989
01:03:02.190 --> 01:03:04.889
if they're interested. Links, of course, to the case files
990
01:03:05.010 --> 01:03:09.409
and to the video from the 2009 Christian Symposium. Important question, Joe.
991
01:03:09.449 --> 01:03:12.570
How do people who want more information from you directly
992
01:03:12.710 --> 01:03:14.730
or need your help, how do they get in touch?
993
01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:19.760
They can reach me on my Skype number. On the website,
994
01:03:20.599 --> 01:03:25.019
under Contact button on the left side, you can contact us.
995
01:03:25.239 --> 01:03:27.400
And I've got my Skype number up there, and I
996
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:31.039
do have voicemail. on the Skype. You can actually call
997
01:03:31.119 --> 01:03:33.940
it and leave a message. I check the messages. I
998
01:03:33.960 --> 01:03:38.000
will get back with you. Actually, I've got an email
999
01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:43.610
address up there, stopabductionsatgmail.com, and that goes to me also.
1000
01:03:44.670 --> 01:03:50.050
And I've got help right now from Guy Malone's wife, Nicole.
1001
01:03:50.630 --> 01:03:54.610
She's been working as the secretary for CE4, and she
1002
01:03:54.650 --> 01:03:57.409
knows I'm busy, and she's volunteered to help out there.
1003
01:03:58.110 --> 01:04:03.449
And The email that comes through from the website, she
1004
01:04:03.550 --> 01:04:06.230
actually gets the same email, too. It forwards to her, too.
1005
01:04:06.809 --> 01:04:09.090
So she follows up on a lot of the email
1006
01:04:09.130 --> 01:04:11.070
for me because so many come in, it's hard to
1007
01:04:11.110 --> 01:04:11.769
handle them all.
1008
01:04:12.070 --> 01:04:12.730
I can imagine.
1009
01:04:13.309 --> 01:04:16.340
But when somebody gets very specific and calls for help
1010
01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:21.159
on the phone, when they get that brave, I make
1011
01:04:21.219 --> 01:04:24.639
sure that I respond back to them. And a lot
1012
01:04:24.659 --> 01:04:27.460
of times they're calling asking for help, and we can
1013
01:04:27.500 --> 01:04:30.340
take them and help them go through the steps that
1014
01:04:30.380 --> 01:04:32.760
we've seen people, you know, be set free from this.
1015
01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:35.619
And then every once in a while we get a
1016
01:04:35.679 --> 01:04:38.320
call where people are just excited about seeing what they've,
1017
01:04:38.500 --> 01:04:41.519
you know, what I've put up there and want to
1018
01:04:41.559 --> 01:04:42.699
thank us for having it up there.
1019
01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:45.550
So. We'll put links to all of that in the
1020
01:04:45.590 --> 01:04:48.230
show notes. Again, you'll find that at pidradio.com. And we
1021
01:04:48.250 --> 01:04:52.769
look forward to the book, Unholy Communion, the Alien Abduction Phenomenon,
1022
01:04:52.869 --> 01:04:55.929
Where It Originates and How It Stops by David Ruffino
1023
01:04:56.190 --> 01:04:59.639
and our guest, Joe Jordan. Joe, you're right. We need
1024
01:04:59.659 --> 01:05:02.199
to do this more often and look forward to talking
1025
01:05:02.219 --> 01:05:02.940
with you again soon.
1026
01:05:03.699 --> 01:05:03.980
Okay.
1027
01:05:04.300 --> 01:05:06.539
Again, links to where you can find the CE4 Research
1028
01:05:06.579 --> 01:05:10.039
Group and pre-order your copy of Unholy Communion, the Alien
1029
01:05:10.059 --> 01:05:13.449
Abduction Phenomenon, Where It Originates and How It Stops. will
1030
01:05:13.469 --> 01:05:17.650
be posted in the show notes at pidradio.com. Program note, again,
1031
01:05:17.750 --> 01:05:21.090
no PID radio this weekend as we're recovering from moving.
1032
01:05:21.750 --> 01:05:25.679
The weather that hit the blizzard of 2010 forced us
1033
01:05:25.719 --> 01:05:30.280
to move our moving date from yesterday, Saturday, to this
1034
01:05:30.300 --> 01:05:33.820
past Thursday. And thankfully, a brother in Christ who asked
1035
01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:37.059
not to be named came to our aid on Thursday.
1036
01:05:37.300 --> 01:05:40.090
And he and I got the furniture moved and most
1037
01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:42.630
of the big pieces that we can't fit in our cars. So, uh,
1038
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:46.599
He knows who he is, and we deeply, deeply appreciate
1039
01:05:47.280 --> 01:05:50.539
his help. Definitely a godsend. And so now we just
1040
01:05:50.599 --> 01:05:53.179
have the personal effects and some other things back at
1041
01:05:53.739 --> 01:05:55.440
the old place that we need to get moved this week.
1042
01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:58.199
And as we look ahead, we see another four to
1043
01:05:58.239 --> 01:06:01.510
eight inches of snow forecast for Monday night into Tuesday. Now,
1044
01:06:01.690 --> 01:06:04.610
having said that, I'm not complaining because certainly the five
1045
01:06:04.650 --> 01:06:06.909
inches that we got is nothing compared to what hit
1046
01:06:06.929 --> 01:06:10.469
the mid-Atlantic states in the United States over the weekend.
1047
01:06:11.130 --> 01:06:13.969
upwards of two to three feet of snow in some places.
1048
01:06:14.570 --> 01:06:16.260
And if you were in the path of that storm,
1049
01:06:16.300 --> 01:06:19.320
you're in our prayers because that is life-threatening. What hit
1050
01:06:19.380 --> 01:06:22.880
us is a mere inconvenience. So do take care because
1051
01:06:22.900 --> 01:06:26.619
the storm that we'll see Monday night into Tuesday will
1052
01:06:26.659 --> 01:06:29.880
hit those same states that got all the snow on
1053
01:06:29.900 --> 01:06:32.639
the mid-Atlantic coast toward the middle of the week. So
1054
01:06:35.219 --> 01:06:37.760
where is global warming when you can really use it?
1055
01:06:38.360 --> 01:06:39.750
If you'd like to get in touch with us, send
1056
01:06:39.809 --> 01:06:45.730
us comments, questions, or suggestions via email to radio at peeringintodarkness.com.
1057
01:06:45.869 --> 01:06:50.340
That's radio at peeringintodarkness.com. Or you can call us. We've
1058
01:06:50.360 --> 01:06:57.679
got a 24-7 voicemail set up, country code 1-317-489-9350. And
1059
01:06:57.719 --> 01:06:59.960
you'll find that number along with all of our other
1060
01:07:00.019 --> 01:07:04.469
places on the internet at pidradio.com. Until next time, I'm
1061
01:07:04.510 --> 01:07:07.380
Derek Gilbert. Thanks for listening. This is A View from
1062
01:07:07.400 --> 01:07:32.989
the Bunker. Hi, everybody.
1063
01:07:33.309 --> 01:07:37.469
It's me, Cinderella X. You are listening to the Fringe
1064
01:07:37.840 --> 01:07:42.079
Radio Network. I know I was going to tell them.
1065
01:07:42.400 --> 01:07:43.579
Hey, do you have the app?
1066
01:07:44.019 --> 01:07:46.780
It's the best way to listen to the Fringe Radio Network.
1067
01:07:47.300 --> 01:07:49.889
It's safe, and you don't have to log in to
1068
01:07:50.090 --> 01:07:53.010
use it, and it doesn't track you or trace you,
1069
01:07:53.030 --> 01:07:57.110
and it sounds beautiful. I know I was going to
1070
01:07:57.150 --> 01:07:59.730
tell them. How do you get the app? Just go
1071
01:07:59.769 --> 01:08:06.340
to fringeradionetwork.com right at the top of the page. I know, Slippers.
1072
01:08:06.400 --> 01:08:08.150
We gotta keep cleaning these chimneys.