Gaming As A Career Path with Studio Head of Halo Studios, Pierre Hintze

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Welcome to Coding Conversations, brought to you by the STEM Educational Institute.
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I'm Nikisha Alcinder, president and founder of the STEM Educational Institute.
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At the STEM Educational Institute, we provide free programming in STEM, financial literacy, and mental health resources.
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Coding Conversations is our way to bring to you, the people, information about these fields and interview very exciting individuals in the areas of STEM, financial literacy, and mental health.
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Today, we're going to be talking about gaming in the industry of gaming and entertainment.
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And we're so proud and excited to have today Pierre Hinz.
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Now, Pierre has spent 25 years in the gaming industry.
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You can say he is the veteran of gaming.
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And he spent the last years of his time in gaming at Halo Studios.
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He joined the team as executive producer of publishing, whereas he is responsible for Halo games such as the Master Chief Collection, Halo Infinite, and Halo Campaign Evolved.
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You guys have to check that out.
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So dope.
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Today he is the VP and studio head of Halo Studios, and he leads the development of new installments to the Halo franchise.
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Prior to Halo Studios, Pierre held positions at a variety of other gaming studios and companies, including Sega, EA Sports, THQ, Atari, Square Enix, and PlayStation.
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Pierre has worked on a range of notable franchises such as FIFA, NHL hockey, MotoGP, and Cars in multiple markets, including Japan, the UK, US.
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And since his hobbies include playing chess and cheering on Liverpool FC and also reading, which is super important.
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So welcome, Pierre.
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Hi, thanks for having me.
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We're so excited to have you.
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And so we have to start from the beginning, right?
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When was the first time that you realized that gaming was just more than entertainment for you?
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It's a really good question.
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I think it came on a cross-section to another part of what I thought was going to be my future playing uh soccer.
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And I was badly injured and I needed to do something with my time.
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And I very quickly started to engage with games because they were an outlet for specifically in that moment in time, things I was no longer able to do, either because of size or my injury or whatever.
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And over time that's held really true.
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Like I will never fit into a Formula One car, but I would love to play a Formula One game.
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So yeah, that the the first the first impression was, I think, for me, uh not a soccer game.
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It was NHL, or it's called at the time it was called EA Sports Hockey.
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So that's where I felt like until then I played Super Mario just for general entertainment.
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There I was like, oh wow, this is a manifestation of V Lady fantasies, which I can live on ice without being able to skate.
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So you so you took your passion and desire for sports, and you're like, you know what, I can't do this in person.
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I'm gonna do it in gaming.
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I love that.
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And you also come from a very interesting cultural background.
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Talk to talk to us a little bit.
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Everyone, you can hear the accent, right?
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He's not from Queens like me.
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Uh what can you talk to us about how that uh impacted you and how did entering the industry in the US, what was that like?
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I think uh the precursor there's entering the industry in the UK.
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I mean, for me, my dad uh was a Nigerian.
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Um for anyone who's Nigerian, I'm sorry, it was an Igbo.
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So that's a specific tribe in Nigeria.
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They're troublemakers.
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And my mom is German, and obviously uh being given a French name causes for amazing conversations whenever I travel for France.
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But the point there was I grew up in Germany, and when I came to the United Kingdom, specifically London, uh it was actually the quintessential piece which allowed me to get into the gaming industry because I was bilingual.
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And uh started my career as a language tester for Sega.
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So that meant I played English or Japanese games and had to translate the text into or work with translators, but uh verify the text in-game in German.
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So what I love about your career path is you were able to leverage your different skills and put them into gaming, which is so important when we talk about skilling and upskilling and STEM, frankly, for s for anyone who's watching and for our students.
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When you look about, you've been to all of the well, not all, but you are very familiar and you've worked at most of the gaming studios.
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What was it like to kind of transition that?
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How did you transition to Halo Studios?
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I mean, a couple of pieces.
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One of them has to have to do with the notion of where are your strengths and weaknesses.
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If you ask me to draw a tree, all artists will fall over laughing.
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Uh at least it's to my wife, she's a painter.
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If you if you um talk about creative aspects of an experience, I feel more comfortable.
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So the things which you are passionate about and have accumulated a lot of um uh opinion, learning, and experiences helps.
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And then ultimately for me, I've been a producer all my life.
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So organizing uh work, structuring work, organizing and leading teams.
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Um that was the common threat in terms of my career going to the different studios, the constant desire to improve.
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But what was the tying thing for us at all times was our love for games, playing games.
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Uh like one of the things, one of the rules, if I stop playing games, I get out of the industry.
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I love that because like so you just spent some time with our students, right?
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And we looked at using the process of Scrum.
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Um we have some video.
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You if can you talk to us a little bit about what that was like, how how you use Scrum?
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Um these kids uh you guys have to understand, Scrum is difficult.
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So these are high school students.
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But uh we roll the tape, um, talk a little bit about that process, what were students doing and it was interesting to see how quickly uh the students were snapping to the methodology in terms of they understand the purpose.
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So for us, uh when we use Scrum, it has everything to do with sizing work, sizing the available capacity and prioritizing the work.
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Uh when you break this down into a language which makes sense for the students, they understand the purpose.
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And uh it was amazing to see how quickly we even could, in a very first interaction, already correct some of the basic mistakes people make, which is doing before planning.
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So just the notion of planning what you're about to do, why, and the efficiencies that affords you.
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I think Scrum is an amazing tool.
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But what is more important, and this is uh something which is always um a key point for me why I'm such a proponent of using it, is the notion of iteration.
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So your first effort is not necessarily always the best effort.
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So having a structure and a construct which allows you to iterate on the work which you're trying to engage with and the outcome of their work is quite powerful.
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And the students, I mean, you make it uh engaging enough by giving them Lego stones and let them play a spaceship.
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Yeah.
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The rest is history.
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And I love that because what, you know, as a student started, one of the things that I noticed is that they were starting to build.
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And you coach them into taking a step back and actually planning.
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Now, gaming Halo and is is very competitive and you have millions of users of players.
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And I love I love just the very idea that you the importance and the structure around planning for these players.
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When you think about, I guess you could say your duty to your players, what do you think is your um personal responsibility for the future?
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Like what do you think Halo owns its next generation of fans?
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Uh how much time do you have?
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I mean the way I normally create the analogy, and uh, we said this in my deduction, Liverpool Football Club.
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So for anyone who doesn't like Liverpool Football Club, that's your problem.
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No, but uh I use it as an historic example.
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Uh for the longest time, uh, Liverpool Football Club fans were singing about glory days, which happened 30 years ago.
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And then a crazy manager from Germany came and gave him a focal point, and that was build on the success of the past, but build your own legacy now.
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So the way I look at Halo, I feel I'm deeply respectful to the people who led the studio before me, and more importantly, who built Halo before me.
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So with that respect in mind, I'm trying to be uh deliberate about the choices I make where I want to deviate away from that path.
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So for me, the notion of standing on the on the shoulders uh of the ones who stood before me is really important.
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So from our perspective, when we talk as a studio and as a leadership team, we talk about a stewardship with the responsibility of delivering an amazing experience which is gonna have its 25th anniversary this year, and to an audience which has different expectations, different engagement routines, but and but looking forward to an essence.
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And that's what Halo provides.
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It has a very strong meaning, good versus evil, the overcome the odds, um the heroic aspects of it without being um, you know, overcomplicated.
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So I think that's one of the things.
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Aaron Powell And you you have the saying, and I'm probably gonna say it wrong, that you have to earn the right to kind of engage with your players.
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Or tell tell me a little bit, what what does that look like and how did that transition from the earlier part of your career to now?
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I think one of the things which I realized is first and foremost, I don't make the game for me.
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I make a game or I'm leading teams which makes games for an audience.
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And in Halo, it is more important than ever.
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You have an audience which has some clear expectations of what makes Halo Halo.
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And for me, earning that uh approval gives me the freedom to surprise them.
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So it is quintessential.
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We did this at Halo 5.
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Um we chose to go a different direction when it comes to the narrative where Master Chief was not the main uh protagonist, and the backlash was imminent.
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And for us, there are certain things which we have to deliver in terms of the expectation of our players.
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So we have to have a deep narrative uh which is driving our story through Hanado and campaign.
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There's an expectation that our multiplayer mode has a clear understanding that we are uh having our strongest moments when it comes to multiplayer in the arena modes.
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We have numerous new modes in that, but ultimately if we don't deliver in that, uh it is uh missing the point.
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And then ultimately for me, the last point, which is forge.
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So giving players the opportunity to not only just create content, but creating content in a social meaning, like um multiplayer maps, creating those maps and trying out those maps together.
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So these kind of uh moments are absolutely quintessentially Halo.
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On the narrative side specifically, you pick up a controller in a Halo game, you know you are good.
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Sure.
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That means you're not a reluctant hero, not a redemption arc or anything.
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You are good, and your job is to overcome the odds.
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Aaron Powell So how do you make sure and how do you get your team to be out of that an echo chamber, so to speak?
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So like you're playing this game, you're developing it.
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How what what is that like for you guys?
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Aaron Powell I mean, we have this philosophy that we're trying to really place our players in the center of everything.
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So we have programs where we call this flighting, where we engage uh segments of our fans with regularity and give them first sight of things which we're planning to do.
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Like as an example, the the demo which we showed at the Halo Worlds last year was seen by a select group of really, really long-term Halo fans.
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And we got numerous feedback on pieces on how the Waterhawk should feel, um, how the engagements uh playing out in that specific level, et cetera, et cetera.
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So we are working really, really close with our fans and players.
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Aaron Powell And what I love about Halo Championships and just that Halo experience, those of you who weren't able to attend, you can definitely check it out.
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I believe it's um streamed on Twitch or what have you.
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What I loved about that experience is that it demonstrated the opportunity and the diversity of careers in gaming, right?
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So there's a for those of you who don't know, there are coaches, people that coach gamers, right?
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There are teams that are sponsored by VC funds.
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Can you talk about how you think gaming can really attract people to more careers in STEM?
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I think over the last 10, 15 years, you've seen a massive transformation of what gaming used to be.
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Gaming used to be a form of entertainment, an interactive form of entertainment when the surrounding areas were non-interactive and linear.
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And you started to see a large uptake on people who just enjoy watching games as streamers and their content which is being created in the back of games.
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Or um like you just touched on competitive gaming, where you have professional teams with professional coaches, dietitians, etc., the entire setup.
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I think as an industry, gaming has way more to offer than designers, artists, and programmers.
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And understanding how you see your opportunity within the industry is the starting point.
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And the key really goes back to the idea of the medium as a games, video games, is what binds you and this is what drives you and focuses you.
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Absolutely.
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And one of the things that there was a recent article that came out about the gaming industry and how it is more embedded in education than people actually think.
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And as an educator and at STEM Educational Institute, when you think about the very building blocks of gaming, it shouldn't be dismissed, right?
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And I think a lot of people pigeon gamers as like, you know, you know, gaming chair all day.
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Actually, no.
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The fundamental.
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Minecraft has an entire educational arm, ready delivering content into the and anything from multitasking down to problem solving or um progressive thinking, forward thinking uh helps a lot.
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So I I would, of course, there's fallout of the permanence of when you engage with a game, but I think all in all, and I've seen studies, uh gaming can have a quite a significantly positive impact.
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When the industry itself opens itself up to uh providing experience and growth experience and careers for people who would under normal circumstances not wanting to work on bank software.
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And I'm not saying that bank software is a bad thing, but they can fulfill their programming ambitions or their artistic ambitions or their creative ambitions in fields which are outside the traditional enterprise uh approaches.
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Aaron Powell Yeah, and I and I and the thing about gaming, obviously, it's fun, right?
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And they're different.
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Allegedly.
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Allegedly.
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When we think about gaming, can you talk a little bit about some of the economic barriers that you find and what your thoughts?
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I mean, when I think about gaming, I think about the consoles that you know my children ask for and the expense.
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So that's for me.
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But can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing and how do you think we can overcome those barriers?
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To be frank, um over the last ten years, how long is the uh the iPhone out there?
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Yes, or m smartphones?
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We've seen actually an equalizer in that sense.
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Uh when you had parents who had to figure out how to every four years either buy a new gaming PC or a new console, you see a lot of the consumption of games had shifted initially over at least five years ago heavily, and most of the markets are in that space already, to mobile devices.
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So for the uh console and PC uh AAA size uh games, it had become absolutely important to be present in that space.
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The reason for this is because for economic reasons.
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So kids might be able to have a hand-me-down.
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Or another piece which we've seen on a console specific is having a backwards compatibility where games which you played on console X are still playable on the new console.
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Because we've seen uh more and more uh people playing certain games over a longer period of time, which was routinely being reset with a new console set because you were trying to drive new games.
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When I think of the last two generations of consoles you've seen from PlayStation 3 uh all the way to Xbox uh right now, we are all more or less backwards compatible in order to address some of the economic realities.
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And then the general downward pressure.
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Like I heard a speech the other day uh by uh one of our uh executives.
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Right now, there could not be a more advantageous uh time for gamers to be in in gaming.
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Like today we talked about the game pass, which is a an offering from over over a hundred games, and you play them for free.
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So with a subscription model, that's just one aspect.
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But even games that on their own um have seen quite an adjustment in terms of prices considering what they cost to make.
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And what uh one of the things that I appreciate about gaming is the community and and how big that community is and how it brings individuals together.
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And I think a lot of people aren't certain about how how do you get into a career for gaming and gaming development, particularly for underserved students where or individuals who aren't exposed to gaming and when they think about it, they think about it in the sense, oh, I have to be a computer science major, oh, I have to do that.
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What would you say to those individuals?
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What's a way to put yourself on that path?
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I mean, community is a f perfect starting point.
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I think Xbox did an amazing job with Xbox Live to create a platform for multiplayer interactions or community-driven interactions.
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And what it did, it consolidated the forums back then.
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I'm sorry, I'm aging myself.
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It's uh me, the unk, uh, the forum pages and started to give a home for those communities around games.
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So it could be anything from coordinators inside the community section down to we have an entire uh group which is focusing on these events like the HCS events, the Halo Championships uh events, uh where you engage uh with the community by having professional tournaments being held.
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Um the subset is endless on the audio side, uh, games, audio composers and uh uh audio engineers uh are a totally established uh field which we are working with.
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You have the marketing side there.
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The spectrum is so much broader.
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Imagine in many respects, uh the game production or the game development is akin to anything that Hollywood does the entire spectrum.
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When you talk about movies, you don't just talk about actors and directors.
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So the industry is uh pretty much uh the same size in terms of the opportunities you can find to be involved there.
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It starts obviously the core is the STEM portion from being able to to code, being able to uh understand code and write code or write scripts.
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But the expense goes then to the content creators where you have a large group of people focusing on the visuals and uh mechanics of the experience.
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And that goes straight into the designers.
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Producers are just the people who try and hold stuff together.
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No, absolutely.
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And one of the things that I think is important to note is the access to information and tools to actually learn these things.
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If you go to Microsoft.com, I think if you scroll all the way to the bottom, you click on careers, you can see the different opportunities at Microsoft, the internships, et cetera, that they offer.
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But not only does Microsoft and Halo Students offer these opportunities, they offer a lot of information, courses, different things that you can just start learning right away without downloading anything, right?
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There's this like a breadth of things.
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And I think that's important to note as well.
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Um and one of the pillars here at the SEM Educational Institute is mental health.
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And we integrate that because we see, I see individuals.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:52.960
People are holistic.
00:21:52.960 --> 00:22:02.000
And oftentimes, gaming is blamed for mental health issues and and there's There's a there's a controversy there, right?
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:06.799
So uh um I'm wondering what your thoughts are and where do you think this tension comes from?
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:07.519
Is it true?
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:08.880
Is it situational?
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:10.720
I think it's situational.
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:14.319
I have uh experienced the opposite.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:23.920
I have experienced uh people who've seen incredible mental health benefit when it came to the community that interacted.
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:26.960
Community, whenever you interact with humans, is a double-edged sword.
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:27.359
Sure.
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:40.559
You have incredible toxic behavior, but also you have incredible joyful and reinforcing behavior because you see a lot of uh games these days uh provide you with game modes where you can play cooperatively.
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:46.880
That means against an artificial intelligence opponent or exactly NPC, whatever you want to call it.
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:53.039
And uh yeah, it fosters the the more positive aspects of mental health.
00:22:53.039 --> 00:23:01.759
I'm not denying that high competitive, we call it sweaty gameplay can create quite some tense situation.
00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:05.359
But the spectrum of games is not only the competitive spectrum.
00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:18.480
I know people people who play uh recreational games for the exact positive reinforcing mental health uh benefits games can provide, like Animal Crossing or just playing Tetris.
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:18.960
Yeah.
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:22.400
So games have a spectrum of positive impact too, in my opinion.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:24.319
Aaron Ross Powell No, I I think you're absolutely right.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:31.119
And I and I know that at some Microsoft stores, the one on Fifth Avenue, there's like a whole gaming room.
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:39.599
And I think one of the things that's really great about most of those events are free, I think, and you can go and play with other individuals.
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:51.599
I've also noticed that um students when they're especially in college, it's a good break to get away because as we know, STEM is not easy.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.799
Um and it's it's not gonna get easier, right?
00:23:54.799 --> 00:24:07.119
And so when you're looking at the the next five to ten years, months, what are some of the things that you find exciting in the gaming industry or that you feel exciting in the future?
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:09.039
I believe Yeah.
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:10.400
Uh it's 3.25.
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:10.960
Time.
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:12.160
Okay, thank you.
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.839
Um the next five months.
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:19.119
Let's go with five months because time moves way too fast.
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:40.000
I think the event of having deeper experiences where the distinguished distinction between experiences with and against humans becomes more of a blurred line and creating experiences which are no longer depending on the good behavior of a other individual which is playing with you.
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:54.319
Uh, I see this as an as an opportunity because we can tell such m more reinforced positive stories by having a greater level of variety and control over the experiences you're going to have.
00:24:54.319 --> 00:25:02.079
Uh yes, it is incredibly rewarding if you uh go into a first-person shooter and play 1v1 and win.
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:14.720
But it is also incredibly rewarding if you guys uh completing an objective or completing a raid in an MMO and you see the solidarity and the help and support we can lend each other.
00:25:14.720 --> 00:26:09.440
So I'm gonna give you a very kind of broad answer because otherwise I would be a very rich man if I can predict what direction things are going.
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:16.559
But I think the experience is gonna become more richer, more controlled than they already are uh in broader spaces.
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:34.880
And uh the level of intensity of those uh emotional experiences and joyful or not joyful experiences will go through the roof because um the on the visual side we have gotten so far already that we can create photorealism.
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:43.359
And I think we've seen more and more and better understanding of psychology of players and what they positively respond to versus negatively respond to.
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:51.200
So the notions of um deliberately creating moments of success for you where you feel like invincible, sure.
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.680
And then just knocking you a little bit off your perch.
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:59.680
Uh I think uh situations which I believe uh will create a bigger and bigger role going forward.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:10.160
And I have to say, you definitely are very humble because when I watch when I've watched the um campaign involved just trailer, I'm excited.
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:11.839
Uh I'm really excited.
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:14.000
So congratulations.
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:15.680
Congratulations to the team.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:19.440
Yeah, the team, congrats, thank you, because it's it's amazing.
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:28.079
Um so as we kind of round out our conversation, for a young person who's looking into gaming but doesn't feel like it's the space for them, what would you say?
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:29.599
Oh, I'll give it a try.
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:31.200
It is incredibly sticky.
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:35.599
Uh I think you don't um address your preconceptions.
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:43.359
It has nothing to do in every aspect where you have to sit and code uh uh a soulless gaming routine.
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:51.279
Uh there are multiple avenues for you to express your creativity and express your ambitions and and dreams.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:58.240
And gaming is one of the last areas left where these paths are free-flowing and not predefined.
00:27:58.720 --> 00:27:59.519
I love that.
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:04.160
And um and with that, we're gonna go through some quick hit questions.
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:07.119
We're gonna lighten up and get some fun going on, you know.
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:10.720
Um, so I'm gonna give you uh two choices and you tell me which one.
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:12.799
You know, pausing, people always try to cheat.
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:14.799
Okay, mobile or console?
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:15.359
Console.
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:16.880
Okay, single player or multiplayer?
00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:17.440
Single player.
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:18.400
Pizza or tacos?
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:19.200
Tacos.
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:19.680
Really?
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:21.440
Okay, I don't get there.
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:23.039
Coffee or energy drinks?
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:23.759
Neither.
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:24.960
Neither.
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:25.759
Tea.
00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:27.519
What type of tea?
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:28.559
Uh oolong.
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:29.759
Oulong, okay.
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:30.400
Remember that.
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:31.680
Netflix or YouTube?
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:32.480
YouTube.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:34.720
Text or voice?
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:35.359
Text.
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:36.880
Early bird or night owl.
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:37.519
Early bird.
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:38.400
Yeah, I can see that.
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:39.680
Dark mode or light mode?
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:40.400
Dark mode.
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.160
Yeah, I gotta go with the dark mode.
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:42.799
I agree.
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:45.839
Gabe Southtrack on or off?
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:46.480
On.
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:47.279
On.
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:48.640
Respect.
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:48.960
Respect.
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.279
Do you have a chair?
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:51.599
Yeah.
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:52.240
You have a chair?
00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:53.119
Does it have lights?
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:53.440
No.
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:54.160
No lights.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:54.480
Okay.
00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:56.640
I would do the lights, but it's okay.
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:01.680
So thank you so much for coming and spending time with us, um, Pierre.
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:10.960
Um, go ahead, like, and subscribe this episode, and we look forward to bringing you more exciting conversations, and we're so excited to have him here.
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:15.759
If you want more information, go to our website, and we look forward to seeing you next time.