Ep 218 - Bears Centurian Jake Heenan joins the pod plus some Bristol rugby-related bits and pieces before the annual Six Nations hibernation

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You're listening to Bears Beyond the Gate, Bristol Bears podcast made by fans for fun.
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With three friends who love the club, the game, and all things bears.
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This week we have a Prem on Hold special for you: an interview with Bristol Bears centurion Jake Heenan.
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We chatted to him on Thursday actually about his rugby career, his time at the Bears, and what insights he could give us about being an elite professional sportsman.
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As you might imagine, it was very interesting half an hour or so.
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But before that, we'll do a quick review of the last couple of Prem Cup games and then tie up a few bits and pieces that have arisen this week.
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I'm Pete and I'm joined by Lee and Miles for a cheeky beer and a bit of rugby banter in the Bristol Beer Factory Tap Room Studio Bar.
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Well, lads.
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Oh, we're joined by a Belgian blonde as well tonight, aren't we, Pete?
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Well, you know what?
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I thought I'd go plan C.
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I'd go plan C and I was Lewis when we got here, just before seven, as we always do, Lewis said, What do you want?
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And he said, It's only uh only cast.
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No, it's only it was only Kegan, wasn't it?
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And I looked, and it was and I just thought, I can't remember what it's called actually.
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I don't know what it's called, but it was a Belgian blonde.
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And I thought, it's a long time since I've had a Belgian blonde.
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Very long time.
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So um It's probably gonna be a long time before you get it.
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Is that now?
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In fact, let's be honest, I don't think I've ever had a Belgian blonde.
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She's quite a strong one as well for the shooter season.
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5.9.
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She's a front rower, I'd say.
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I gotta say, I I've always never been that keen on Belgian beers, but it's slipping down absolute beauty.
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But what about you, Mars?
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You've got a bit of a I think this is a an advertising space for something new that is uh I mean obviously we had a keg of uh but black gates nitro style, and uh and then we noticed in the fridge that black gates is now available in the can.
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However, without a little widget and any nitrogen, um it's alright.
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It pours well.
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Well, for me, I'm terrible at pouring beer, but it's alright.
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It tastes very nice.
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It's still mallar.
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Yeah.
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And yourself, Lee?
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I'm on a well, I did have a black gates.
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Uh I'm now on uh the espresso martini, which is, I have to admit, one of my favourites.
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And Lewis did say that it's it's gonna this is it.
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This is the last lot of cans.
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Last batch.
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The last batch of cans until next year, so uh I'll try and drink as many of them as I can.
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Good lads.
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Yeah, and if I was if there's anyone else out there who likes espresso martini, I'd get down here quick before Lee gets them all.
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Anyway, so as I said, it's this very difficult time of year when Prem games are finished.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Uh Six Nations are on the agenda, and obviously yesterday um they started, and uh there's a few Prem Cup games here and here and there, and we've we've had this problem in the past, and and in the past we've we've tried to do something a little bit different, maybe fill fill the pot space a bit with some interviews and a couple of docu pods we've done.
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So, in with that in mind, uh we got in touch with Jake Heenan, and he was very happy to do a chat with us on that basis.
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And we actually did a chat with him on Thursday, didn't we, boys, on Zoom?
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Yeah, um, and Jake uh gave us sort of half an hour of his time.
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We had a really good chat with him.
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We we tried to sort of cover as many things as we could.
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So we're gonna listen to that a little bit later on in the pod, and then maybe we'll have a quick chat afterwards, very briefly, about you know what we thought about what he said and stuff like that.
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But I think before that we we could do a little bit of a round up of of what's been going on at the club because it has been a little bit busy.
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There's been a few things, bears-related issues going on.
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So the first thing was the Prem Cup.
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Now, let's just do the stats.
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We are bottom of the first table.
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Giving you the league.
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We have one win.
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I think we can safely say that given that it's top two from each group go to the semis, I don't think that's going to happen for us.
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Uh, just to for those people that may don't know, last weekend, and they were both home games actually.
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So we've had two home games.
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Fortress Ashton Gate, yeah.
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Yeah, Fortress Ashton Gate.
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Not much of a fortress, unfortunately.
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But we lost 16-8 or 8-16 to Gloucester last weekend, and it was a pretty wet wet game.
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And I'm gonna ask Miles about it in a minute because he had very clear views on that game, um, even though he spent most of the time just chatting all the way through to the person sat next to him, which was Alice, by the way, if she's listening.
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But then on Saturday I went down on my own, um, just because I had a free afternoon, didn't have anything else to do, and I he's on my season ticket, so I thought I'd do it.
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And actually, it was a much more entertaining game, but we still lost uh 35-46 to Chiefs.
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Um, but I could perhaps give you a bit of a few things about that.
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But as I said, the reality of the situation is there are two more games to go.
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There's one away at Bath and there's one home at sale, and I think you know we're very much gonna have to look at those as fill-in-time games or scouting games because obviously the Prem Cup is all about you know players coming back from injury or or academy boys, and it is good for us to see what's coming because we need that academy, as we've always good, we do.
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So, first things first, Miles, let's very briefly talk about last Saturday, Sunday's game.
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Um we have to, yes.
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Yeah, well, you were very, very scathing about the game, and I think we have to caveat this by recognising that the players do put a massive amount of effort in, and it was horrible, and they were smashing each other up, and there's Miles sat there going, Oh, this is all rubbish like that.
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And I just think, boy, I wouldn't I bet you wouldn't say that to their face if they were there.
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But anyway, Miles, qualify your statement a little bit.
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Right, the weather was atrocious again, it wasn't on sort of the biblical reign of extra cheese scale the weekend before.
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But however, um yeah, you're great.
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There was a lot of academy guys in.
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There were some fringe first team players in for Bristol Bears and also for Gloucester as well, to be fair.
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They had some and some I wouldn't call Dunny or Gabsivatoy fringe, though.
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No fringe, but okay.
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They're not fringe.
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Don't stir it up, especially especially with Dunny.
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Come on there, Miles, carry on, sorry.
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So, you know, it's been great to see some Academy boys.
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You're right, it was useful for a lot of the guys that come back from injury to get some game time, which is absolutely essential.
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Um, but yeah, Gloucester bought a little bit of a better game plan.
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They played the weather a lot better, the high ball are better, and I even think their the scummaging was well.
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There were some slightly odd decisions.
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And I think my mild criticism on the day was there was a bit of a lack of leadership on the Bristol camp.
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Um we should say, wasn't Louatua due to playing got injured.
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No last minute.
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Yeah, and I think especially in the case of Lua Tua, there's your there's your go-to leader.
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Yeah.
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So that probably defaults your go-to go.
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Yes.
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It defaulted to Harry Thacker, and you know, and I think um I pat on the back for Gloucester, their scrum was just a little bit tighter than ours, and a bit more grunt, and they were pushing us back, and we and it delivered us some fortunately some penalties against us.
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So, yeah, the the game was good, but the late scrolling said it was rubbish.
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Well as if we were reversing.
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But disappointing result, the boys put their your bodies on the line, as they always do, but just you know, slightly wrong, wrong side of the ref in quite a lot of penalty decisions.
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My only comment on it was um that it was Harry Thacker's 150th appearance.
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And it was a little bit of a shame that it was the conditions didn't make it much of a game.
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There was a lot of kick-in, and it wasn't he did, you know, he he did try his best to do Thacker things, and I I felt a bit sorry for him that he just picked a uh a day for his 150th that was just not conducive to to rugby.
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But anyway, it was am I just a totally unrelated rugby uh thing to say?
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But that weather, I actually loved it because I was in Launston in a cottage on a farm, and do you know what?
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It was the loveliest cottage, and that rain was hammering down, and I had a lot of.
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So you didn't need to leave the cottage.
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It was perfect.
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I went to a farm shop, Strawberry Fields farm shop.
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Beautiful, beautiful products, and I had a load of beer in, and do you know what?
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I was settled.
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I loved it.
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So Pete and I weathered the storm, and you rightly so stayed out of the storm.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, well, you obviously had a better weekend than we did.
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But yesterday's game, as I said, Chiefs, slightly better weather, uh, more scores, more, more tries.
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Yeah, like it.
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And and uh this time I moved down to the lower Lansdown just because there were spare seats and it's got better leg room.
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But of course, I've said this before that when you go from sort of mid-Dolman 28 rows up and go down to like four rows back of the Lansdown in the corner, it's like watching a totally different game.
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You basically don't see half the game.
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So I it was quite hard.
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The legs are a bit tired, yeah.
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You fancied less walking, did you actually?
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It was quite hard, but but my comment on the game was, and I think if anyone wants to really know what an analysis of the game, like maybe read the Bristol Post write up.
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But we were a bit slow out of the blocks.
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Dunny was playing, Joe Owen was playing.
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We had quite good pack.
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We had George Taylor at seven, Ben Grandona at eight, Dunny and Steele Barker, which I was trying to I I know we're not very good at doing our research.
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I was trying to remember what Dunny what his nickname was and what his real name was as well.
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Because remember, Dunny told us ages ago, and I just didn't have time to go back, so I should have done a bit of AI searching on that.
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Anyway, maybe maybe Joycey could find out for us, because he's on he's our he's our fat checker.
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Yeah.
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But anyway, joking aside, it felt and of course the trouble is with these Prem games when you've got a mix of fringe fringe players, as Miles would say, i.e., blokes that are in the first team squad, but quite a long way from the 23, and and first team regulars when they're fit, like Gab Zibatoi and Dunny has been in the past.
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Um, it's a bit ha it's a bit disjointed because they don't play together, do they?
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I mean they may play in training, but you know, so I think we've always got to be a bit wary of expecting too much.
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And and I felt as though um that they did get a bit they started slowly, and I think for whatever reason, Exeter a bit more cohesive, scored two quick tries.
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It's a good place, didn't he?
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They had a big lumpy, big gnarly pack out, and I think we luckily scored just before half time.
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Joe Owen, from where I was sitting, looked like he's he ran from the halfway line, and he was I was literally kind of behind him, so I couldn't really see what he did, but he appeared to um and I think Dunny did a little interview afterwards on uh BBC Radio Bristol and and said he called him the gazelle.
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The gazelle, he said that he said the gazelle ran in from 50 yards, so it was it, it looked like a great try.
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So you're really good for Joe Owen.
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And then second half, they came out with a bit more purpose, and we did all speculate where we were sitting that they might have had a bit of a rocket.
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And Dunny confirmed that in his interview that they he said they had hard words with each other in the changing room.
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And I think they were like they just and they they did come out a lot more.
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Well, they were what, 20 22 7 down at half time.
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And they would have to be.
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I think they got back into within seven, and Lena scored a try um af in the second half, and um uh Max Pepper scored a try, was uh scrum half, and then right at the end, Sam Worsley scored right at the end.
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Um you did say Pete as well before we started recording.
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Dunny had harsh words with uh with one of the Exeter players on the pitch as well, didn't he?
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I know, I mean he did.
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There was a there was one of those what we always love in rugby when there's a there's an altercation going on randomly and the the play is like somewhere else on the pitch, and yeah, I mean I would say that Dunny started wearing his red cap again.
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So that's why it's quite good, you know.
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It's it and I think I did suggest to him that he should get that red cap back on because you know you you you can see it, so I could clearly see it was Dunny on the ground, like pummelling into some Exeter guy.
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I don't know what it was about.
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But the funny thing was you could disguise the blood of your opponent on your head.
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Well, what I what I loved about it was that they were going hammering tongs, and a few other people got involved, and then they both realised that the game was going on, and they realised that they had to stop because they had to go and support, and they literally just got up and sort of almost shook hands and carried off.
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Yeah, but I mean that's what they did, and they got I mean, what I love about that is the passion, you know.
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Dunny's still got the passion.
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He's we know he's playing for Quinn's next season, but it doesn't mean anything, does it?
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He's still got the passion for Bristol.
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And this is the thing, is because these games are a bit about Academy lads having a run out, it's also about Gabs getting game time, Dunny getting game time.
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Because we are we know we're gonna need them in the run-in because we're still out despite doing so well to be third in the Prem, we still have a small squad.
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That squad hasn't got away.
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Yeah, and we need Dun Dunny, you know, you know, he yeah, at the moment, you know, your first choice locks a Pedro and Bats, but you know, we we've got Joe and we need other we need Dunny fit because he is a premiership operator.
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We need everyone, and uh we need Gabsy Batoy fit, we need Rich Lane, Jimmy Williams played on Saturday as well, so sort of ticking him over as well.
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Um so yeah, I just think it these games are important, even though they're not that really they're meaningless.
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And I I think it'd be interesting that those Bath and the Sale game might be interesting to see the sale one particularly, who who are they gonna sort of try and tick over for the restart?
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Because obviously the first Prem game won't be till the sec 22nd of March.
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So I do think these games have value, and it's quite nice.
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I've said this before, it was quite nice down the gate, it wasn't too many cues.
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But do you know what?
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You make a really good point, actually.
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I think Ashton Gates, one of those grounds, and I I don't think you get it very often, but you can have a completely different view of one the same game from different stands.
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Yeah.
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I mean I've I've sat in all the stands.
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I mean, I remember the old Williams stand before it was called the Land Stain.
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And um and it's such a different perspective, it's really weird.
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I mean We won this one in the South Stand, didn't we, until that bloke spilled Pine Residence on a Friday night.
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That was Gloucester on a Friday night.
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That was a Prem Cup.
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It was, yeah, it was, yeah.
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That's why I never go to them anymore.
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I mean, that was a long time ago, wasn't it?
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And that was a dire game as well.
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Yeah although clarifying that the players put every effort in because we and and we wouldn't be able to do anything like that.
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Yeah.
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So yeah, you're right though, it's it is quite nice.
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It's almost like moving around the ground.
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I'm not suggesting we're gonna go to the Attio just for the experience.
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I just wonder whether the Attio might could be uh something we should do at the bath game.
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It was alright.
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I'm actually going to watch the England Well Six Nation women's from the Attio.
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Are you from the Attio?
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I don't know, I've no idea where I've got seats.
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Well let I'll let you know on the day.
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Well, there you go.
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So I mean, yeah, so what we're trying to say is I mean, I do wonder what players think when they're playing those Premier Cup games.
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Like how, you know, it's in all seriousness, it must be quite difficult because they to get to stay motivated, but then I guess rugby's that sort of game where you've got to be all in, or there's no point being on.
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And I think you know, they did they did try right to the end.
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The fact that you know we scored, we got back within seven, then they scored again, and then we got back right at the end.
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And Sam Worsley.
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I just think every time I see Sam Worsley, he just looks a bit harder, a bit more rugged.
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He's got his beard, but he's he got himself a try at the end as well.
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Yeah, he looks he's looking the business, and we may we need him if we don't know whether Adge will be fit for the end of the season.
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You have to suppose not.
00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:23.200
No, so we so we needed him to be.
00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:26.080
And also we know that Tom Jordan's kicked all the you know kicked out.
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.000
Yeah, he was kicked kick percentage was great.
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:35.519
And you know, Tom Jordan's away with Scotland, and you know, we hope fingers crossed that something nothing untoward happens to him.
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:46.799
Although, thankfully, and just on the side, he looked like he came through that horrendous um mud bath in Rome, all right, even though mentally I don't think the Scots got through that very well.
00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:49.200
But anyway, we're not uh we're not talking about it.
00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:55.039
I think they were already in it.
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:56.879
Yeah, they were wrong with it as well.
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:03.039
I know they were it was uh anyway, so I think anything else to say about those Promo Cup games?
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.240
No, I think we've summed it up quite nicely, in all fairness.
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:07.039
I think so.
00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:09.600
Well, a couple of other things to to talk about.
00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:13.039
I mentioned him already, but um Gabs re-signing.
00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:14.720
Um that's a good news, isn't it?
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:16.080
Very, very, very good news.
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:24.320
And I think and I think you know, now that this is another it's not just about signing new players, it's about keeping the quality that we've got.
00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:27.120
Clearly, Pat rates him.
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:34.159
And one of the things we learnt from Jake, which we might talk about later, is that if you're not really with Pat, you generally don't get off in a contract.
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.519
So clearly, Gabs is bought into the whole system.
00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:38.799
Two years?
00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:40.480
We never know, do we?
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:42.240
Two plus one, I don't know.
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:43.200
It's gotta be, hasn't it?
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:43.919
Yeah, he's got company.
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:45.440
It's got to be got to be at least two years.
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:51.279
I mean, if you give I don't think you can give anyone a one-year contract, because if you do, you've got to start negotiating again, haven't you?
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:52.720
And Pat's a busy man.
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:56.000
I mean when they say long-term contract, I think you're right.
00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:56.960
It's a couple of years, isn't it?
00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:58.480
I think I mean I thought three.
00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:02.080
I mean, the only person in rugby to get more than the three-year contract is Pat, isn't it?
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:02.240
Yeah.
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:03.600
And he's the boss.
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.240
Yeah, so he negotiated his own deal.
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:06.799
Yeah.
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:15.599
So uh so I think that's a great, I mean, you know, he's he's he's been injured since sort of game one, and we've been lucky enough to have some great wingers.
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:24.079
But I think you're right, we we need all these people fit going into the run-in, and to have the sort of quality and the pizzazz that that Gabs can bring.
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:26.559
You're right, he he needs good players around it, doesn't he?
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:31.920
Yeah, uh exceptional centres to sort of give him that space, and I think that he's brilliant.
00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:36.960
Also, what I love about Gabs is that he creates chaos because he just does his own thing.
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:44.240
He's we talked about many a time on the pod, he has the the kind of license to roam almost.
00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:53.039
He's the he's the 007, yeah, and he he and he just creates chaos, and what he does, he puts opposition players out of position.
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.000
Yeah, so absolutely brilliant sign-in for us.
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:07.759
Absolutely, and and when we are on playing front foot rugby, and there's no one more you know, as you say, sort of no one more front football.
00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:08.720
No more front foot.
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:10.960
Well, quite side foot sometimes as well.
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.039
But yeah, so I think that's good news.
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:13.519
Good news.
00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:19.599
Um England A, there was uh there was four four bears in the England A.
00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:22.960
Harry Harry Randall started and got man of the match, scored.
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.839
Uh George Klosker started, scored, scored, Joe Batley started, did he score?
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:28.400
Don't think he did.
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:30.240
There was a great look.
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:37.599
I think I re- I I did something on Instagram where there was George Klosker's try, it was it was a line out on the other line.
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.759
Bats took took the took the took the ball cleanly.
00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:42.240
Yeah.
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:46.720
Um Harry took it quick, little dummy in a snipe, got some yardage.
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:47.920
Then there was a couple of phases.
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:54.400
Klosker went in, resource a rut, came back out again, hit the ball at pace, and showed some real power to go over it.
00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:56.079
It was a proper bears try, that was.
00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:56.720
That was great.
00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:58.480
Bats to Rans to Glosker.
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:02.000
So and then Fitz came on second half.
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:03.839
I think they're poor old Fitz.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:18.799
I mean, we love him, but then you know, we think he's done brilliantly to get this recognition, and and maybe who knows where it will go, but then he ends up like you know, Ethan Roots, who has he's been played really well, gets captaincy, and he's like the one the position that Fitz will go.
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:20.559
But fair play to Roots, he's a good player.
00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:30.880
Fitz is going to keep knocking on the door, and we've got full absolute confidence in if he just keeps doing what he's doing, recognition first, and then let's see where it goes.
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:34.000
The biggest mystery though was Gabriel Ogre, isn't it?
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:34.240
Yeah.
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:36.480
Oh we don't really know what's going on with that.
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:50.640
We just I mean we thought perhaps he might be kind of a shadow like on standby for the main squad, is the sort of rather than bring somebody from the A's that he will be the next cab on the rank if Jamie George gets injured when Luke Cowandickey does.
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:51.680
Retiring, isn't he?
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:53.680
Because Theo Dan was the third, wasn't it?
00:19:53.920 --> 00:20:02.799
And I just wonder whether he's uh he's been told to kind of just keep ticking over because but it is it's hard to understand why he wouldn't be in either of those two squads.
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:03.920
I mean it's madness.
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:05.440
It is it does seem like madness.
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:08.079
Actually, on that note, I've just remembered something.
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:22.240
I because there's been a lot of chat about Ink Bears not getting picked for England and and a lot of speculation on you know from some people that that Steve Borfwick's got um a grudge, of course, yeah.
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:25.519
Because great, he should be on the stage.
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:29.680
It's like listening to Rory Bremner, it's Miles Bremner has arrived.
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:34.720
But just the interesting thing that is quite a big narrative because of that, because of a foe again.
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:39.039
Steve Borfwick's got the hump with Pat and Don't Speak.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:21:00.880
Now, I I I took the opportunity to ask a good friend of the pod, Dave Atwood, what he thought because I thought at the end of the day he was there at that match, and I asked him, I said, look, because they were discussing it on the scrum, and and I got on touch with him afterwards and said, Look, there is this narrative amongst Bears fans that Borfwick will not pick Bristol players because he's got the humm with the club.
00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:07.839
And I said, I just find that really hard to believe that he's a pro, you know, he'll do what he's got to do for England, and I just can't believe it.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:17.759
Anyway, Dave Ackford confirmed that he doesn't think Steve Borfick has got any particular gripe with Bristol, as per se, because he actually asked him.
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:19.519
So there's some proper evidence for you.
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:25.759
But he did say that he wasn't 100% sure why, but he just wondered that it's so competitive.
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.880
And the thing about forwards, like I was saying, like, how could Batley not get in?
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:29.759
Or or even Fitz?
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:39.759
He says that they just have to make a call on grunt more than anything, uh, in terms of their their size and power with international scrums and gain line and winning the gain line.
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:48.240
And he just said it's such fine margins that they're probably in Steve's mind, he's picked a couple of other people who've done before them and and and they're just in there.
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:58.400
And I and I think I kind of believe that, and my my evidence to back that up is that we are getting some England A recognition, so it's kind of like it's not the bears aren't in the conversation.
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:59.359
So that's my thought.
00:21:59.599 --> 00:21:59.680
Yeah.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.279
And we should say as well.
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.559
I mean England have what won twelve games on a spin now.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:12.240
So you can't really argue with the basis that Borthwick's picking a winning team.
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:19.920
And you know, uh no coach would drop players that have won twelve games consecutively.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:22.480
So we just we just got to keep an eye on the job.
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:23.920
I think we are knocking on the door.
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:30.799
So I think that people saying, oh, he'll never pick Bristol players, it's like, well, he will have an oversight of the England A squads.
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:35.359
And like George Klosker potentially could have got in that wider one.
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.319
And actually, on that note, Max Laheath got caught.
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:54.720
But I I saw the interview with um John Barnes, the Academy, and he said that when um whoever it was, the BAF young lads got injured, they couldn't, they might well have pulled in an England A, but they'd already gone to Ireland to liberate it.
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.319
I mean, this is the other thing about the Pat and Steve thing.
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:04.400
John Barnes was quoted saying Steve gave Pat a ring to see if Max was available.
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:06.079
And Max.
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.839
So I think it's like anything in life, it's a lot more complex situation.
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:26.960
It is, but maybe you know, Steve Bulfett has a certain way of playing, and maybe he just thinks that, you know, probably in seasons past that our pack hasn't been that kind of gnarly thing.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:34.240
But actually, he may review that at the end of this season and look at our season and say our pack has been one of the biggest and strongest.
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:35.920
Yeah, I mean, I get that.
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:36.640
I mean, you're right.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:40.000
I mean, you're looking, you know, some of the bulk in that England pack yesterday.
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:42.319
It's hard to argue that what you've just said.
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:46.480
I mean, you know, Fitz, they're just very slim, very dominant players.
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:50.960
But, you know, you've got a Tom Curry, for example, he's got a little bit more than that.
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:52.400
And he's been there and done it.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:52.799
Caesar.
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:58.079
And he's a you know, we should say, in Tom Curry's case, he's got a bit of nastiness.
00:23:58.319 --> 00:23:58.480
Yeah.
00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:03.599
A little bit of an edge that I know, blessed or fit hasn't quite gone.
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:05.039
Yeah, he's yeah, yeah.
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:06.319
But I always take that.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:09.599
He's a Premier Captain with a hundred appearance.
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:11.759
So that has to count for something.
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.720
I'm gonna throw another name in the app in a couple of years as well, Joe Owen.
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:16.319
Joe Owen will be in the English.
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:18.880
I think it's all right.
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:20.720
I think I think George Klotker as well.
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:26.400
I think I think if he I think we're I think we're looking good, and I think we just have to just wait and see.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.400
I mean, and Harry Randall was man of the match.
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:31.440
I mean, Harry Randall was picked ahead of Raffi Quirk, wasn't he, on Friday?
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:33.599
He's got man of the match and scored.
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:35.440
So it's good at competition as well.
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:35.759
It's good.
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:36.480
That's all we can do.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:37.599
Man of the match and score.
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:47.039
So anyway, the only other thing I wanted to mention, I don't know if you boys saw that um promo with Genji and Sean and Beanie, Sean Marsden.
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:50.000
Uh it was on Twitter, it was like uh in an old red.
00:24:52.240 --> 00:25:12.880
Oh, it was a little promo thing where they were sort of drinking, it was a Thatcher's side of thing, but they were talking about grassroots rugby and talking, like chatting with each other at the bar about their their kind of journeys from grassroots rugby to to Bristol players and so forth, and then obviously Sean as coach and how and they they go back you know a long way.
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:16.400
And it was actually a really good accordingly.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:20.319
I I know I mean I know that that was filmed quite a long time ago.
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:22.799
It was actually filmed way before Christmas, and they when he just put it out.
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:28.480
But apparently, according to my sources, it was like all day filming for about and like this is TV for you.
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:32.480
You do all day filming one we know, you do all day film, you never get on.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:26:00.559
Anyway, and um anyway, the interesting thing that came out of that is that they were talking about the when Genji talked about coming back and you know he loved grassroots and he wants to come and he loves Bristol supports, and he and he name checked, he goes, Oh, just after it's time for Bristol, we came back when I was close to Leicester, and he goes, Normally it's just Bristol, Bristol, but that was class that on that day everyone started singing he's coming, oh he's coming out.
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:08.720
And I was thinking, we just started it like I'm sure it's like the safest stand on state, but we definitely talked about it on the pop that we definitely started in the dolmen.
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:20.799
Well, I can actually say I know full well Tony Cox got up and we started singing it, and we we started that in the dolman, and no one safe stand is claiming that no more.
00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:22.079
But you know what?
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:23.039
I loved that though.
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:25.359
What I loved about it was Genji's recognised that.
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.799
Yeah, because I think it's the first time I've ever heard recognition, yeah.
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:34.000
And actually, and he was saying it's kind of he was talking about this whole chant thing, which is an ongoing debate.
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:42.799
And he said that, but but what and Dunny mentioned this when we interviewed him before, that maybe the route is like individual players chants, you know.
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:46.240
Like we've always said about ooh, yeah, Steven Red.
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:47.839
That could work.
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:48.240
Yeah.
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:51.519
And we were gonna have oaster done, okay done.
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.039
But I don't know.
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:57.839
I don't know, it's an ongoing debate, and there'll be people shaking their heads to done.
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:02.960
Like oh, oaster down, like changes, and it's changed down, isn't it?
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:09.279
It's changed the band, and it's changed.
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:14.160
Well, maybe that's what we've got to do.
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:18.799
Individual, I think all Yankee Van Rensburg is a good start.
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:19.759
It's a classic.
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:23.279
And I mean, it's difficult, but Cluster, I think.
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:25.440
You've got to pick a copy one for Klosker.
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:29.759
Yeah, Joe in the sort of gazelle type uh type thing.
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:34.079
We've got O in me O in you like it.
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:35.839
Just off top of it.
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:43.759
What happens when you have two points of express over the TV and a thunder like creative juices?
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:44.559
Go over for over.
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:51.119
Anyway, I think, boys, on that note, we should uh we should introduce the main point of the pod.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:55.759
We've managed to speak for 25 minutes, which I was hoping it might be a bit shorter.
00:27:55.920 --> 00:28:01.039
But the the hot most main reason for this pod was to present the interview with Jake Heatan.
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:04.960
So without further ado, I think we should listen to what Jake said.
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:22.079
So I thought I'd start with a fairly general question and say, you know, I wonder if you could sort of talk us through your your whole rugby journey, really, from the Auckland Blues Academy via Connuct, hundred appearances for Bristol, and obviously uh a very successful local businessman.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:28.240
Yeah, so I I grew up in uh a small city in the far north of New Zealand, Fangale.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:33.039
Um, like a lot of young New Zealanders wanted to play professional rugby.
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.039
Um, you know, was sort of managed to find a backdoor into an academy.
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:43.279
I was actually told by the academy that I should focus on my studies and and probably shouldn't pursue rugby as a as a career.
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:46.160
It wouldn't um, you know, it mightn't pan out for me.
00:28:46.319 --> 00:29:00.720
Uh was was fortunate enough to to sort of stick at it and um played a a bit of schoolboy rugby, made New Zealand schoolboys, went down to Auckland, that's um where I first met Pat Um when he was coaching the Blues.
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:16.240
Um couple years in their academy, played uh New Zealander 20s, was fortunate enough to captain them to uh what I believe was the first junior World Cup that all that that New Zealand ever lost.
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:18.799
Um I was in charge of that.
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:34.480
Um came back, played a bit of development rugby, played for some blues development, and uh yeah, then then Pat offered me a contract to go and play an island in Connect, and it was the the surest route for me to get better, I think, at the time.
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.480
It was full-time, it was um you know, good competition and and good coaching.
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:50.799
So took that on, loved it, did five years out there before you know Pat came across to Bristol and um yeah, so I wanted to come along with him and um yeah, I suppose the rest was kind of history then, you know.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:59.839
It was seven years at you know, Bristol's ended up becoming my home and um, you know, probably some of the most enjoyable rugby of my career as well.
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:02.960
I'll just dive in with one question and then lads, you might want to come in.
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:12.000
But I suppose my question would to you would be obviously you you mentioned you you captained uh New Zealand under 20s and you didn't win that final.
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:13.440
I think it was South Africa, wasn't it?
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:16.799
Um but you know, there's no shame in losing to South Africa these days, is it?
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:23.279
Do you have some sort of regret that you you gave up the opportunity to be uh a kind of full all black?
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:28.240
Uh, because essentially I guess that was the case by by coming over to the northern hemisphere.
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:29.200
Absolutely.
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:36.160
There is not a single thing I regret in my career, and I'm I'm really, very privileged to be able to say that.
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:42.000
Um I I've taken every opportunity I think I've had in front of me.
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:44.240
Uh I think I've made the most out of them.
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:58.240
I had I had four shoulder reconstructions uh over the course of about two and a half years in Ireland, um which didn't help, but you know, I sort of managed to again still pursue a career after that.
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:04.480
And and I feel like I I really put my best foot forward as best I could at every step.
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.559
And yeah, look, I I I've achieved everything.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:16.079
I I would have liked to maybe have achieved a bit more, but you know, there's nothing more I think I could have done, and and there's no opportunities I would have would have would have rather pursued.
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:30.160
And and even you know, like coming over to the northern hemisphere, leaving New Zealand, um yeah, there's there's a lot of good parts of New Zealand, but you know, you miss out on seeing the world, and you know, my my lovely wife is French and family and everything here now as well.
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:32.799
So I th I think there's there's a lot around rugby as well.
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:33.839
But fantastic.
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:37.519
Good answer that so lads, Lee, I think you've got your hand up.
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:38.480
Off you go.
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:39.839
Yeah, Jake.
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:44.000
I just wanted to say, like, uh, I know like you grew up on a farm, didn't you?
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:45.119
Um that's right.
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:54.880
And the thing that I like about talking to rugby players as opposed to to footballers is that you're generally more rounded individuals, yeah.
00:31:55.119 --> 00:32:00.400
And I know you were part of a setup for troubled youths in Galway.
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:04.000
And can you just tell us a little bit like uh about that?
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:14.960
Because as a as a former troubled youth myself, I I kind of like the ins and outs of of what you know what you've done in that situation to help people.
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:21.839
Yeah, well, again, I I wasn't too dissimilar, you know, like I sort of got myself in a bit of trouble growing up.
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:31.200
And where I was really fortunate is rugby was kind of my my segue into um you know, my direction and something I could put a lot of energy into.
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:35.359
Um to sort of, I suppose, straighten myself out a bit.
00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:40.480
Um and which like a lot of young people don't know sort of the their direction and what they want to do.
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:47.920
And um, you know, I heard a great quote uh just the other day that like all behavior makes sense with enough information, right?
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:55.599
So that idea that giving people that come from these really, really diverse backgrounds and something they can they can latch on to and pursue.
00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:01.440
So it's something I was I was passionate about and um you know had interest in in how I can help.
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:05.519
So that's a uh fantastic organization called Doctor Sanoi.
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:26.000
Um and that's a um essentially a school for for troubled individuals, for young adults who haven't you know managed to fit into um traditional schooling systems, and it gives them opportunity to sort of earn their tickets and and to gain further qualifications to fit into the workplace.
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:27.519
So really interesting.
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:37.119
What what I think I've what I found most interesting working with them and um the the director uh Tommy O'Malley's actually a really good friend of mine now.
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:41.839
And the there was no sorry, you know, there was no sort of feeling sorry for them.
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:46.079
There was no um it wasn't a pity party, it was right.
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:47.839
Well, okay, here's an opportunity.
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:59.279
Yeah, look, we understand in the same, you know, like very understanding people who who understood the divide the diverse backgrounds and um the different cultures and that at play, but it was right now we have to get on with it, you know what I mean?
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:04.559
And this is the situation you're in, and this is what we can do, but you need to come along on that journey.
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:06.799
So uh that was a good learning for me.
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:13.519
And yeah, look, I look I I played a very small part in what they're doing, but it was um it was really neat uh to be a part of it.
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:18.480
Jake, did you feel that that was quite self-healing for for for your own past as well?
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:34.239
Um look, not so much because like these were, you know, I like while I say I was in a bit of trouble, I come from a very stable household with, you know, I I was a single parent household, but a very loving family, and I had very, very good people around me.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:38.239
And so I think my my trouble in comparison was very mild.
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:46.559
Um whereas these were people with, you know, with a lot of them with real broken homes and um you know, violence, drugs, all that kind of thing.
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:53.360
So I I suppose from that sense it was almost almost more of a shit.
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:55.679
I you know, I really had it pretty good.
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.599
It could have been a whole lot worse, you know.
00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:06.239
So um an appreciation, I guess, for situation a lot of people are in, and um and and also uh my privilege as well.
00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:08.320
Just to sort of just just a quick question.
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:15.840
You were with Pat and Connocked from what 2013 to 2018, and you know, you successfully won the Pro 12 with them.
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:29.199
You then move on to Bristol or got lured over to the West Country in the sort of 2018, and you know, I and I found a program today amazingly, and that sort of first season, there were people playing with you.
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:37.920
You probably remember you had Charles Pietel, Siali Pietel, George Smith, Luke Moraghan, Steve Luratuur, Ian Madigan, and John Efoa.
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.920
Could you quite believe these sort of these players you were playing with?
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:57.920
Yeah, I I mean I think probably earlier like earlier in my career, I would have I my career trajectory was a little bit different in that when I when I first arrived into Conic, I was very determined, you know, very like single-minded determined, and I loved playing.
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:01.280
I remember playing against Terry Dussatoire in my first season, that was incredible.
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:03.119
Yeah, like these sorts of people.
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:06.400
When Craig Clark came over, it was like, this is fantastic.
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:17.360
Um, and then as I mentioned, I sort of had those injuries, and um it really forced me to to I suppose reassess my relationship with rugby and and and my mindset.
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:29.440
So I suppose by the time I came to Bristol, I was a bit more rounded in my rugby, or my whole life wasn't centered around rugby, it was you know something I love doing and um something I really enjoyed.
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:42.639
So um, and I suppose it's a roundabout way of saying that um you know when you meet rugby personalities, you you kind of get to enjoy the person and the professional, and um yeah, I don't know.
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:51.760
I mean Stephen Louatua, for instance, he was the first person who spoke to me when I moved to Auckland out of school.
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:57.920
So, you know, like I'd known Stephen from essentially from from secondary school, you know, where he'd sort of taken me under his wing.
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:10.079
And um, you know, I'd captain both Stevie and Charles at under 20 level, you know, the before, you know, the year when they were off um playing for New Zealand the year before me.
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:18.880
So um so I knew a few of those guys and um yeah, I don't know, footy characters are kind of footy characters, and and you'd take them all with a pinch of salt and get on with it.
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:21.039
But it was certainly enjoyable.
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:41.599
And and the the I think probably more impressive, all the guys you mentioned wasn't for me, at least reflecting on a rugby career, it wasn't them as as footy players, it was them as people, you know, like they're all awesome people and they're all my really good mates, and and I suppose that's almost you know, looking back, that's almost what I reflect on more, you know.
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:42.880
Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:48.800
I mean, you know, as I said, that they're all hopefully, you know, very great and inclusive characters, which sounded like they all are.
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:52.639
Yeah, also, and obviously, you know, Stevie and and Charles knowing them.
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:57.599
I mean, I'd John R Fall was coaching counties and I was back playing for Northern and caught up with him.
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:03.360
Uh, you know, we spent a week in Australia with Luke Moraghan on the Gold Coast on our way back over.
00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:09.280
So yeah, really, like, really lucky to to have you know gotten to spend time with those guys.
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:10.719
So I I've got a question.
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:26.639
I've your your relationship with Pat is is like is an interesting angle because obviously us fans and uh you know all the fans, we we kind of speculate about Pat, you know, we talk about Pat as this this guy, but obviously we don't really know him, but obviously don't know him at all.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:28.000
We see him on the TV.
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:31.119
You're probably someone that you know knows him better than anybody.
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:38.719
And I think you were quoted as saying, you know, he took a chance on you when you were younger, and and he's been a big directing hand in your career.
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:43.760
I mean, it would just be interesting to hear from you, from someone, you know, from the the horse's mouth, as it were.
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:51.119
I mean, you know, what what is he like to, you know, as a as someone to be coached by and what are the the real sort of qualities that he's got?
00:38:51.440 --> 00:39:01.840
Yeah, so I I suppose first, you know, when you're talking about the lows and and that, like um, I look at at someone like Pat and you couldn't pay me enough money to do what he does.
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:08.719
Like, that is, you know, I think that DOR, you know, at that level is um as ruthless.
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:12.960
You know, I think professional sport, we all exist on a knife edge to some degree, right?
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:18.719
We're all aware of the fact that that our careers have a shelf life and they can end at any time.
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.559
Um, and he is he is existing right at the pinnacle of that.
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:28.400
So um, in terms of Pat, like Pat is, you know, obviously I'm I'm very fortunate.
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:32.159
I know Pat uh very well as a person and as a coach.
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:36.559
Um like as a person, he's uh a great family man.
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:45.119
He always puts his family and his his friends, he's always been very welcoming to us and you know, in their home, and yeah, they've always looked after us on a on a personal level.
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:48.480
So that that's obviously a massive part of working with anyone.
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:50.159
I've I've been really grateful.
00:39:50.480 --> 00:40:00.400
As a um as a DOR, I think he is one of the hardest working, most single-minded determined human beings I've ever met in my life.
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:06.719
He is like w when I say you couldn't pay me enough to do that job, like he is the perfect fit for a job like that.
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:09.360
He is like he's insatiable.
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:17.920
Yeah, he will do anything to achieve to achieve the goal and to achieve, you know, and and I think his work ethic probably speaks for that higher than anything.
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.039
Like he's first man in the building, last man out all the time.
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:24.079
I couldn't tell you what time he leaves because I was always gone before him.
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:27.599
And you know, he yeah, he drives a really high standard.
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:34.559
It was interesting because I I had Pat for my first four years at Connick, and I think that was probably tough as Pat.
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:41.119
That was Pat uh post-blues, you know, where he'd really, really been uh really poorly treated.
00:40:41.440 --> 00:41:08.239
He had I think he had compromised on a lot of standards at the blues over the years, and those were the those were the standards, those were the people that came back and and bit him in the back, you know, and that's I think that he learned a a very strong less uh lesson from that, that you know, what you permit, you promote, and if you allow poor standards, and you're at the top of that, you know, it'll come back and and you're the one who will end up um failing that.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:16.639
So he was very, very strong, yeah, drove a very strong, I suppose, organization team, drove very strong behaviors, uh, particularly early days in conic.
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:17.840
So, and that was great.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:20.480
And I was 21, and you know, so it was perfect for me.
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:22.800
It was a really, really great sort of direction.
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:37.920
And and then anyway, obviously we had those four years and they're really, really intense, you know, like hard meetings, confrontational, we'd train hard, we'd we'd have long days, and then we had you know, Pat left, and and I think it was a bit of a feeling at Conict that they obviously weren't weren't delighted with Pat leaving.
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:47.039
And I got the impression they wanted to find someone who wasn't Pat, you know, as a way of saying, Well, you know what, we'll do it with you know, the antithesis of Pat almost, you know.
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:50.559
And they brought in Kerry Gakeen, who who I think is a good coach.
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:52.639
Um, it didn't work out for him in Conict.
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:55.679
I don't think he got it right when he he came to us in Conict.
00:41:55.920 --> 00:42:05.039
But he was the other way where it was short and he didn't put a lot of, you know, a lot of detail, didn't put a lot of attention to details, and to the point where he didn't like he didn't really learn people's names.
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:12.159
He didn't bother to create um that sort of personal relationship, and then he didn't drive standards really hard.
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:17.840
Uh I had a couple of injuries that year to the point where I could come in, do some weights and go home.
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:19.119
And that was kind of my work day.
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:24.000
And it was like I was getting paid really well and and I was working about four hours a day.
00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:26.239
It was like this has to be the life.
00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:27.840
I absolutely hated it.
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:31.679
It was my least enjoyable season I think I've ever had because it was like, what's the point?
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:34.159
You know, like I'm not getting better.
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:44.880
Um, you know, I didn't feel that the leadership from the head coach at the top was driving me or driving something to succeed, and it was like this isn't this isn't what I want to do, this isn't why I do this.
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:48.960
I do it because I love it and I want to see how good I can be and how far we can go.
00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:54.639
So I think that was a really big lesson for me then when Pat asked if I wanted to come to Bristol and and you know it was the same.
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:57.519
It was like, right, here we are, and this is where we're going, kind of thing.
00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:03.360
And like when we're done in Connect, it was like fantastic, like this is you know, and yeah, it was it was hard, you know.
00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:15.599
We had we're up in at Clifton and um, you know, we're mauling uphill and an ankle deep mud and all those kind of things, you know, which are fun and roughie, but that kind of galvanized us and really defined our identity as a team.
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:23.920
So I I think that's a a long-winded way of saying that uh he drives very high standards, he doesn't accept uh B players in his team.
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:31.360
You know, if you're someone who doesn't take accountability and and doesn't want to do the work and do the job, then you won't last very long under Pat Lamb.
00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:41.920
And that's something I really appreciated because I felt that I was someone who, you know, like all the names you've mentioned today, um, who wanted to achieve things and those are the people you want to be around.
00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:44.559
Nice, that's uh that's that's really interesting.
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:45.760
I don't know, lads, if you've got another.
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:47.199
I just got one follow up from that.
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:57.920
Is um we always sort of saw you as the guy that was the kind of the go we used to call you the go to man for you know for Pat when there was kind of you were there, you know, as a as a sort of constant would come in.
00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:59.840
Sometimes you're in the team, you're captained a few times.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:00.719
Times as well.
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:04.800
Did you was that a role that you kind of accepted and you were really happy with?
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:11.039
Or were there times where you, you know, you said to yourself, I want to be that number eight, or I want to be the uh the the open side flanker?
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:16.639
I'm just sort of interested in in how you kind of kept yourself going really for for all those seven years.
00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:18.480
Yeah, it's uh it was an interesting.
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:33.840
So I think like reflecting back on it now, and this is it's interesting because it was never something I allowed myself to reflect on during my career, but you know, having those four shoulder surgeries, like I I was never the same athlete and I could never prepare the same.
00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:44.320
So I sort of struggled to keep weight up, I struggled to perform physically during a week, and and often I would, you know, if I was playing rugby, I would just be trying to get through seven days, you know.
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:45.679
So it took it took a lot out of me.
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:54.480
So part of it was the fact that I couldn't string loads of games, you know, like I I don't think I could have managed lots of 80 minutes in a row anyway.
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:56.320
You know, I think I probably would have broken down.
00:44:56.400 --> 00:45:01.039
I think Pat was aware of that and aware that you know how how far he could probably push me.
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:07.599
And I'd I'd always go as far as I could, but that you know, there was probably a limit on what my body could handle at that point.
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:12.079
Um and this is probably sorry, this is probably the the latter half of my time at Bristol.
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:19.679
I definitely, when I arrived, it was, yeah, wanted to be the number one seven, I wanted to be the guy and I wanted to show what I could do.
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:29.519
But I I think I also learned off the back of those injuries that I have to be extremely like I have to be very good around the club, I have to help drive the team in any way I can.
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:34.800
I had to help Pat, you know, because at the end of the day, yeah, he would he was our leader, he was in charge.
00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:38.239
Um, he's the man who's gonna give me another job or not.
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:41.920
And so my career trajectory massively aligned with his.
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:46.320
So how can I help him achieve his goals and be someone that he trusts, you know?
00:45:46.400 --> 00:46:09.039
So in terms of playing, I had to I had to really know the game.
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:15.039
I had to really learn it intimately so I could really fit into my role and and do it to the best of my ability.
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:27.280
Because you're right, I think I was the type of player who I don't think I had a very high feeling, particularly in in my later years, but I had a very high floor so I could perform well on a regular basis.
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:34.239
But when the likes of you know DT or Fitzy or those, when they're at their best, I I don't think I would have caught them.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:39.840
But they have to be at their best, otherwise, you know, like you say, I was ready to step up.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:52.400
And that's why I think you know, when I look at my seasons, like the best years I had is when we performed badly, is when you know things are tough and the guys aren't going well, and I was able to keep going at you know at a at a good rate.
00:46:52.480 --> 00:47:00.400
And it's you know, I think there was that season where um I ended up captaining a guitar at the opening game of the season, and you know, that was fantastic.
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:12.639
And but that's when I featured more was when things weren't going so well for us, because that's when one, that's when I sort of got going, and um, you know, and that's probably times when other guys struggled, you know.
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:21.039
But when when we were flying and we were going really well, like I mean, you've named the guys, like they were very hard to keep up with and very hard to outplay, you know.
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:23.519
So um, so yeah, no, definitely.
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:42.159
I feel like I had my role in the team, and um, but that was also around just being the best version of me, you know, and and knowing that Pat trusted me to to do my job, and um you know the the window of opportunity in professional sport is is very, very small, and wherever I got that opportunity, I just had to make the most of it, you know.
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:45.840
No, I think I think that's that's really that's fascinating, it's really really interesting.
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:49.199
Lee, I think um uh you've got a question.
00:47:49.519 --> 00:48:06.159
Yeah, Jake, I mean, you've just given us the best insight into your consistency because me and the lads always said whenever you stepped in, you were just uh consistent from like from the the referee's whistle.
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:08.639
And you've just summed it up perfectly.
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:17.679
I mean uh it it was um uh what I'd like to know about let's tell tell us tell the listeners a bit more about the dressing room.
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:22.079
What was the what what who were the characters in the dressing room?
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:31.840
And you know, um because I'm sure you've you've got plenty of stories, and I know we have to condense this this interview, but you know, what what were the standout moments?
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:35.519
Um yeah, a lot of a lot of characters.
00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:45.119
I was lucky to come through with that like really great group, you know, like you mentioned DT and um Callum, you know, the Ed Holmes and Jefferson were some really, really awesome guys.
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:51.760
Um DT, absolute menace, like a lot of fun to to be around and a lot of fun in the beer.
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:54.239
Ed Holmes was uh he was another one.
00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:56.719
Brian Byrne came through, he was great.
00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:07.760
One memory I have uh was that Stephen Lewis and Stag, and we're we were walking home, and Dan Thomas has found this like the side of the road.
00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:13.039
We were in Amsterdam, and Dan Thomas has found like this I don't think a pot plant does it justice.
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.280
Like it was a small tree in a in a pot.
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:30.000
And Dan's grabbed this tree and he's just pulled it out of the pot with all the dirt attached to it, and Ed Holmes has got his nice, you know, his new white shirt that's all ironed and he looks great, and he's just this thing across his back and just covered him, covered him in dirt.
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:38.000
And I reckon for the next 30 minutes, all you can see is Ed and Dan running around the canals of Amsterdam, like trying to get each other.
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:45.519
Um so look, and I like that was that was a pretty typical sort of uh yeah, with with those sorts of boys.
00:49:45.760 --> 00:50:06.480
Um uh Luke was another good one, like he was one, you know, very um, very stoic man and um you know, very uh yeah, like great guy to be around, very calm, and then every now and again we'll just send it and we would have, you know, it would be uh all over the show and and late night.
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:08.719
So yeah, look, great boys.
00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:13.599
Um there's uh there's a few of them.
00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:17.039
We've had um George Klosker, he was another good one actually.
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:26.400
Um Trip coming back from Newcastle and uh I think it was actually down at steam him falling asleep in one of the outdoor chairs and and getting kicked out.
00:50:26.559 --> 00:50:30.480
But no, good boys, good boys, good fun, all harmless.
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:33.920
Talking of the dressing route at those times, you just thought of something.
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:38.320
Did uh did Sammy Rundrunja ever learn the Blackbird?
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:41.440
Because we always uh we always suspected that he didn't.
00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:44.320
I was just wondering you could tell us whether he did or not.
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:45.760
I I doubt it.
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:46.320
I don't know.
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:48.400
I yeah, I don't know.
00:50:48.639 --> 00:50:49.840
He was still learning English.
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:50.400
I don't know.
00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:53.280
Blackbird was that high on his list.
00:50:53.760 --> 00:51:00.800
Yeah, no, it's he'd always see we always suspected that he didn't quite know the lyrics whenever the uh he was planning to change a roof.
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:03.440
Keeping eye on those Argentinian boys as well.
00:51:03.519 --> 00:51:05.360
I wouldn't wouldn't trust them either.
00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:08.719
Oh but in general, yeah.
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:10.239
I've got a quick question, Jake.
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:20.800
Obviously, um, you know, you've had what uh in effect, you you play under Pat system for well, a bit longer than 12 years if you talk back in New Zealand days.
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:27.199
Um, you know, you've you've won the Pro 12, but you came off the bench and we won the Challenge Cup in 2020.
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:39.119
And you've sort of kept that faith, and you you know, you've told us, and I get it, that he's you know, he has such a good grasp of being a DOR and so dedicated, you kept that system and faith for so long.
00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:44.079
You know, I I imagine you've been keeping an eye on the boys this season and that they're doing brilliant, brilliantly.
00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:51.039
Um, I guess you know, from a sort of a retired player's point of view, uh can Bristol win the Prem?
00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:53.760
And and you know, when is it when do you think it's coming?
00:51:54.719 --> 00:51:57.599
Yeah, look, I I yeah, absolutely think they can.
00:51:57.679 --> 00:51:59.920
Um, and this year they've as good as shouters.
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:14.960
And Zelly, um, in terms of like the system, because I I've I suppose through through my time I have a feeling that um uh a rugby system and and a way of playing the game has a threshold, right?
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:38.480
It needs to be good enough to win games and good enough to to compete at the highest level, but anything past that is very much limited by the players, the culture, the the buy-in, you know, and so I think um when you get to that top level and you're playing the likes of you know the Saries and um I don't know who Northampton is at the top of the table at the moment.
00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:48.000
Um you know what's almost more important is is how much do we buy into what we're doing, how much do we believe in it, and and how how tough are the boys to deliver it.
00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:55.360
And toughness in that sense that you know unwavering commitment to doing what they need to do time and time and time and time.
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:57.280
Yeah, because that's all the game of rugby is.
00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:04.800
It's just uh 80 minutes of collective small moments, and who can win the most of those moments, you know, will generally win the game.
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:12.960
So um so yeah, look, I I think they certainly look, to be honest, I haven't watched Teach, but I've I've seen a bit of it, they look they look pretty good.
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:19.679
Um but you you you wouldn't know unless you were I suppose unless you were in the dressing room.
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:26.320
I think um like the the pack has been going well, I think it's been going well for quite a long time.
00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:28.719
I think that's something that's easily overlooked.
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:37.199
It's very hard to win games of rugby if you know if if you set pieces and firing, and that's real credit to you know what Ira and Morgues have sort of done there.
00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:55.920
Um but yeah, look, I I would just say then it's down to um you know how well can can the group as a collective commit to whatever it is they're trying to achieve on any given week, and whether that's kick more or run more, or you know, if if they commit and execute, then they'll win games, you know.
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:02.800
And um and and I suppose now it's all about that but can they build momentum going into the back end of the season?
00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:04.960
Because that's that's massive as well.
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:10.000
And you know, if you if you lose a few in a row, it can be tough to um come back.
00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:16.800
So yeah, look, a bit of a bit of momentum and and some good weather towards the back end, and you know, I'd give them a really good chance.
00:54:17.119 --> 00:54:27.199
I presume are you back to are you gonna st are you back to in Bristol, you know, for permanent to to to work, you know, to basically run the the cafes and and whatnot?
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:28.559
Yeah, that's right.
00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:29.360
Yeah, back now.
00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:41.679
So we're expecting our second liney day now, and um, yeah, back and enjoying life um where I don't have to go mauling at at sort of 9.30 in the morning, which has has been a nice change of pace.
00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:52.320
Does that I mean does that mean I know pretty obvious question maybe, but you know, have you kind of discounted uh a future career in in coaching or or or anything else in rugby?
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:56.480
Is it is it kind of rugby is now a in the past for you?
00:54:57.199 --> 00:55:07.760
Yeah, like not necessarily, but I think we're about now one, like I spent a lot of time in um professional rugby and um in and around those setups.
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:10.639
So I think I'm I'm happy to get away from that for a little bit.
00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:23.679
Um and the other one, you know, like really fortunate with with the cafes, I'm able to uh you know have a semblance of of independence um while still having a lot of purpose around my job.
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:38.159
And you know, I can be a dad to to my young kids and um enjoy, I suppose, a bit of flexibility in in uh in my schedule, which you know it's the one thing in pro sport is you're a slave to your schedule.
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:42.559
Um so I'm enjoying that that side of it now anyway.
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:44.719
So um who knows?
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:57.119
Like I still you know work with a couple of boys back in New Zealand and I I really enjoy that that mental skills and mindset and performance element of of sport, but yeah, I I I don't know.
00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:00.079
I might circle back to rugby, but not right now.
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:08.000
Jake, are you are you basically saying you're doing all the the hard work and Moorhan's sunning himself on the gold coast?
00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:10.880
Is that is that the is that what we're talking about?
00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:15.679
If I if I didn't say it explicitly, that's certainly what I meant to say.
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:18.239
Yeah, and it's it's amazing.
00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:37.760
So, like, you know, obviously, you know, here slaving away for Luke, and you know, we all love to say how well Bristol's doing, but you know, no one's no one's come to thank me yet for freeing up the cat space for Lewis Reese Zabbit and Tom Jordan, which I don't like, which I obviously had to do to give them this opportunity.
00:56:38.079 --> 00:56:41.039
So um no, mate, it's good.
00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:42.320
Life's good, life's good.
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:43.360
It's um brilliant.
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:50.880
Those boys, those boys can afford their afford their own coffee as well, uh, can't they, Jake?
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:53.280
You know, no freebies at the wages there on.
00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:55.119
No, no, that's it.
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:55.679
That's it.
00:56:55.760 --> 00:57:00.639
I I didn't give up give up my my contract to them for nothing.
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:01.199
No.
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:06.000
Okay, well look, I've got I think I've got one last question, really quick one just before we finish.
00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:10.880
And and and thank you so much for your time and and like fantastic insight.
00:57:11.360 --> 00:57:17.119
Um my question is like, you know, looking back on your Bristol career, you know, what was your best moment?
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:23.199
I I think my hundredth cap, I think that was, you know, that is probably one of my proudest rugby achievements.
00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:59.840
I like I know I I don't I hate to keep talking about my injury in that, but I think coming finishing that period where it was very, very much touch and go whether I'd ever, you know, play another game of rugby and then to be able to come to a club as um, you know, with as much pride um and I suppose success both on and off the pitch as Bristol and um to come through that, you know, that from the start of the prem and um achieve the things we did along the way and managing to to string together a hundred games I think was a really really proud moment for me.
00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:02.639
Right, so there we go, boys.
00:58:02.800 --> 00:58:04.719
There was our uh little interview with Jake.
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:07.119
Um I mean it was great of him to to agree.
00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:12.159
We've always found that it's very easy to to get in touch and with with ex-players.
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:17.679
Obviously, we've done we've done Dave Atwood, done Choice T, obviously.
00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:23.840
Uh we've done DT D Tallant, Calum D, Andy Aren, Andy Aren, Ian Madigan.
00:58:24.159 --> 00:58:28.000
We've got we've got a few notches on our metaphorical rugby bedpost there.
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:30.639
We would have thought that ten years ago.
00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:36.559
Yeah, and and we should say, I mean, it was brilliantly, Jake, because it was it was quite late, wasn't it?
00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:39.280
On um, it was eight weeks, something like that.
00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:42.480
Well, the mitigation is he has got a second charge.
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:45.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:50.719
And he slotted us in just before the bedtime, and also the the new baby.
00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:53.519
So yeah, again, great, great, great stuff.
00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:55.440
So yeah, I mean, we covered a few things.
00:58:55.519 --> 00:59:15.440
Uh we asked about his career, I mean, we asked about his relationship with Pat, we asked about um you know what what his kind of motivations were for because it was seven seasons with Bristol and uh and and we always said yeah, he was always his team-like, especially later at latter time of his his time with Bears, that he was the kind of slot in man.
00:59:15.519 --> 00:59:16.400
We called him the go-to man.
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:22.800
He explained that quite well, I thought, about how he said that you know he was managing his uh his uh in general.
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:29.679
He knew that you know he every game he played was like his cup final, like we said before.
00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:46.079
So I mean it it it kind of like emphasised how consistent he was for me, which is I I thought that was great because we always said like he doesn't play very often, but when he comes in, he's always like A1 level.
00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:50.400
And obviously that that just goes to show he because he knew he wouldn't play every game.
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:54.159
But look, games that he was that he was targeting, he was ready for.
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:55.760
I mean that was the good insight.
00:59:56.000 --> 01:00:02.960
I mean, I don't think yeah, I we you probably could have read that he had multiple shoulder surgeries over the years from Conock to Bristol, but you're right.
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:11.039
I mean, we didn't quite realise toward the end of his playing career in Bristol why he was sort of on the bench who had come on for half the game, and and I totally get that now.
01:00:11.119 --> 01:00:12.880
And I mean, hats off to the chap.
01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:17.679
You've got 100 caps, 120 caps ultimately, or maybe one more or so.
01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:28.880
Um you know, and that's just fantastic to play that amount of rugby, still at that sort of you know, he's 33 now, uh, and still we you know, fully supported by Pat Land.
01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:34.159
Come on, and put on, as we've heard, absolutely out-of-head-skin performances.
01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:35.440
It's just phenomenal.
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:44.559
For me, the big takeaway was um the kind of loyalty that Pat shows people that invest in in him.
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:50.719
And like you say, he's Jake's followed him from Clark to Bristol.
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:57.119
I know I didn't pronounce it properly, I guess American, but he's followed him from Ireland to from Galway over his door.
01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:13.519
And um and it just goes to show that you know Pat he looks after people, and he is ruthless at times, and we all know that, but equally he looks after the people that look after him, and that's gonna that was my biggest takeaway from that interview.
01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:19.599
It was interesting, and you know, we we said we talk about Pat all the time, don't we?
01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:22.320
And we don't know him, and none of us fans really know him.
01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:27.519
And you know, what is he what is his kind of what's he like as a DR?
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:49.360
And I think it's very clear that Jake says, Yeah, he he he is he lives the he lives whatever he believes in, and and he takes people with him, and and if people fall out on him, it's usually because they're not following in it, you know, what he what his plan is, and that ultimately he is the headmaster, like we've always said, and he is it's his plan, he's the DOR.
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:53.599
And as as uh Jake said, he would not in a million years would he ever want to pete a DOR.
01:01:53.760 --> 01:02:05.599
It's quite interesting he said that, but it's like the the hardest job in the world, and and people do sometimes go on about Pat being really well paid and stuff, and you can kind of see, well, you know, it's like a CEO of a company that's well paid, isn't it?
01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:14.239
I mean, Pete is ultimately amazingly perfect, and you and I just totally're still here.
01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:21.760
But it's gonna be tooth money because we misbehave week after week after week, and you're you're the ultimate headman.
01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:24.159
I know that you buy into the idea though, please.
01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:25.199
We certainly do.
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:35.519
And and what what I liked about it is he said Pat's first first game, the last time and that I mean that just shows the volume of the man.
01:02:35.599 --> 01:02:37.199
And do you know what I'd love?
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:46.639
I'd love to the three of us to be sat down, no recording, you know, no microphone, no and just have a chat with Pat.
01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:51.280
Just I'd I'd love to get a bit of a feel of the guy, you know what I mean?
01:02:51.760 --> 01:03:02.079
I don't think that would ever I know I think that part of his whole system is that is that his interaction with the fans would be very much the narrative that he already gives.
01:03:02.159 --> 01:03:03.599
I don't think we'd ever get anywhere.
01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:05.280
No, because we don't know him, you know.
01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:15.039
You'd have to you know, Jake's probably like I was struck with it, out of every player at Bristol, Jake is probably the one who knows him the best because he picked him up from blue.
01:03:20.320 --> 01:03:23.119
About why, you know, do you not regret he stayed to become an all black?
01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:30.159
And actually, what he said A, that he said, I just needed like pat I needed that sort of DOR.
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:35.920
I don't think it didn't sound like he felt as though he would get that in New Zealand and therefore his career would flitter away.
01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:40.719
And secondly, he did make that point about New Zealand being a bit backward, wouldn't it?
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:44.320
It's like I I'd like to see the rest of the world and let's go disrespect to Europe.
01:03:44.719 --> 01:03:46.960
But it is a little bit behind the times at the time.
01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:49.360
It's just the farthest point in the world.
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:52.000
Yeah, I don't think you find many French wives in New Zealand.
01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:54.000
It's what he's fine.
01:03:54.079 --> 01:04:01.280
It's like he's he's seen the world on the back of rugby and he's met his wife and he's and he and he's made all his friends and he and he said he's staying here, you know, it's his home.
01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:05.679
So this is the thing, and he's settled in the best place on earth, Bristol.
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:06.559
So absolutely.
01:04:07.519 --> 01:04:09.360
No, I think that was interesting, really.
01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:17.519
I mean it's fantastic that he's gone through that sort of 12 plus years with Pat and an amazing rugby career to multiple clubs.
01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:20.559
Um, you know, he won the Challenge Cup with Patrick.
01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:26.239
What he did is he got he's won more trophies than most people at Bristol because he won the Pro 12 as well.
01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:28.960
So he's won the Pro 12.
01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:34.320
I mean like you said that thing about UK with all the sort of SEMI and all that lot there.
01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:36.960
And I was thinking actually, he's the only one who won anything.
01:04:37.760 --> 01:04:38.960
So he was the superstar.
01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:43.440
He was the one who came with you know what that was funny now, he said uh he said about STEMI, didn't he?
01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:47.599
Yeah, it's kind of like just reinforced everything we already knew, really.
01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:49.760
Did he really know the language?
01:04:50.400 --> 01:05:01.840
And he also give us a little a little warning about the Argentinians that we need to check when they do those when they do those change room things, we need to like just check to see whether those boys are.
01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:05.360
Check to see whether they're actually singing it or not.
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:05.840
Yeah.
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:10.400
And if they're not, if they're not, we're gonna get done involved in it.
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:17.280
So anyway, I think that's I think I hope people enjoy listening to it.
01:05:17.599 --> 01:05:18.719
Yeah, it was such a nice bloke.
01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:26.159
I mean, an absolute store of the club for you know 12 seasons or sorry, seven seasons, 120 plus cafes.
01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:30.639
I mean, such a nice bloke, and you know, it's just fantastically pretty now called.
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:39.360
Wrong to like kill the whole thing.
01:05:40.079 --> 01:05:42.960
When he expects three damage a bug of coffee, he didn't give him to us.
01:05:43.280 --> 01:05:44.000
That was a good category.
01:05:44.079 --> 01:05:51.119
That was a good category, except that I did a you know, you should be thanking me that you're gonna have it like that.
01:05:51.199 --> 01:05:52.079
That was a good little finish.
01:05:56.719 --> 01:05:59.039
Well, on that note, boys, I think we might have to call it a day.
01:05:59.119 --> 01:05:59.679
We're not quite sure.
01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:01.840
When we'll be back.
01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:08.719
When we'll be back, because as it's if I manage to or we manage to find something else to talk about in the next few weeks, we might.
01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:10.800
But otherwise we've got a few irons in the fire.
01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:13.760
It possibly won't be in the world.
01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:22.800
I think at the moment we'll say for sure that we'd we'll do something on the to preview Tigers, which I think would be the 15th of March, which seems quite a long time away.
01:06:22.960 --> 01:06:26.480
So I think we might try and slip something in, but it is quite difficult.
01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:27.679
We need a new title.
01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:30.800
We've got edupod, docupod, interview pod.
01:06:31.039 --> 01:06:33.119
We'll have to get a new podcast.
01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:42.639
The Prem and did the RFU and Prem Rugby think about these fan-based podcasts when they changed all of the scheduling so that there's no games in the Six Nations.
01:06:42.719 --> 01:06:46.159
I mean they're very, very disrespectful to our effort that we put in.
01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:51.679
Because it's what we enjoy doing as well, as the listeners enjoy the bearing.
01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:54.639
The problem is the only thing we can really talk about is Bears games.
01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:56.719
And when there aren't any, there's not a lot else to talk about.
01:06:57.920 --> 01:06:59.039
Anyway, it is what it is.
01:06:59.199 --> 01:06:59.440
Right.
01:06:59.599 --> 01:07:00.880
I think we'll give it call it a day.
01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:05.440
So everyone, uh, I hope you uh have a have a good week, have a good month, probably.
01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:10.159
Um and uh let's hope it stops raining because it's getting a bit tedious now, is it?
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:13.679
And those road works on Cumberland Road, that's getting tedious as well.
01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:18.400
Everything's everything in the idea is tedious because it's the worst time of year, isn't it?
01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:22.639
So we may see everyone when England win the uh Six Nations Grand Slam then.
01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:25.679
Hopefully, but it's gonna be a big game, that England-France game, isn't it?
01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:26.239
Absolutely.
01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:32.000
But we've still got to go to Italy, we've still got to go to Scotland, and we've got to go to Edinburgh.
01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:34.400
Calcutta Cup, we haven't got a great record of it.
01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:35.760
So not recently.
01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:44.239
But whatever happens, I mean Genji had a a good game again, so um uh we'll keep I think they took him off, but they took him off to rest him.
01:07:44.480 --> 01:07:45.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:47.599
There's no point so we'd be ready for Murrayfield.
01:07:47.679 --> 01:07:48.000
Yeah.
01:07:48.159 --> 01:07:54.159
Anyway, as is the way, have a good week, stay safe, and up the bears.