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Welcome to Artificially Intelligent Marketing, a weekly podcast where we stay on top of the
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latest trends, tips, and tools in the world of marketing AI, helping you get the best
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results from your marketing efforts.
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Now let's join our hosts, Paul Avery and Martin Broadhurst.
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Hello everybody, it's Paul Avery here.
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Welcome to episode 39 of Artificially Intelligent Marketing.
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I'm here with my co-host and the lovely Martin Broadhurst.
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How are we Martin?
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I'm splendid.
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Just splendid.
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That's it.
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A single word will do it.
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I'm not splendid.
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This has got nothing to do with marketing or AI, but we do talk about football or soccer
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on the podcast sometimes.
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Usually it's me teasing Martin about just how useless Derby County are, but I'm a Liverpool
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fan and today our talisman, Jurgen Klopp, has announced he'll be leaving the club.
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So I'm really going to have to muster energy today, Martin, for this conversation because
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I'm really sad.
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Yeah, it was a big announcement.
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I was shocked, but I could see why it might impact you.
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There is going to be a grieving process to grow through, to go and grow through.
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So yeah, I accept there's going to be denial, anger, and at some point you'll land on acceptance.
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Hopefully I can get to that quickly.
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Fortunately, as much as that's big news, there's been more big news in the world of marketing
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and AI.
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We've got some interesting stuff to talk through today.
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We've got the UK government publishing some more guidance on generative AI from employees.
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We're going to dive into it.
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I think that's going to be really interesting.
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We've got Google releasing a new text-to-video model that none of us can play with yet, but
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as usual, the demo videos look awesome.
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So this could be the next improvement as we iterate our way up towards production-level
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video quality from generative AI.
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Runway, one of our favorite companies, as listeners will know, we're going to talk about
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what they've been doing to improve their video tool.
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We've got some new enhancements and cost reductions coming to OpenAI's platform for those that
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use the API.
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Eleven Labs, Voice Synthesis fame have got a ton of cash to improve their product even
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further.
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We're going to talk about the ongoing evolution of AI website builders and is it all hype
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or are they actually any good?
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We're going to talk about that as well.
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We've got an MIT study on whether or not AI is going to replace us all.
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That's going to be quite interesting.
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Obviously, we've got, for those of you that watch TV, you'll have seen the ads for Samsung
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Galaxy S24 with its AI baked in and the rise of AI phones and then a bunch of other stuff
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all in between.
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I think, Myon, between us, we're going to help me get over the Yergin Klopp news by
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looking at all this exciting AI news instead.
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What do you reckon?
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Well, there's plenty to go at and if nothing else, it'll be a short-term distraction.
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Well, let's do it.
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Let's get stuck in.
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Let's talk about this new guidance from the UK government, Myon.
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They've published a generative AI framework for HM Government, which is a 70-odd page
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document covering all things about safe, responsible, and effective use of generative AI in government
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and the public sector.
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I've been fairly critical of this government and certain episodes in the past, I've given
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them a bit of a bashing, but this document is very good.
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I applaud them.
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I think they've done a really comprehensive job when it comes to explaining what AI is
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and generative AI, explaining how to use it, giving some examples, talking about how to
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procure it, talking about the ethics and responsible use.
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It's a very broad document, but the language that they write in is plain English.
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It's technical without being overly technical.
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If you're just a departmental head in a local authority, you could pick up this and read
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it without needing to know anything about deep learning and neural networks and all
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of that kind of thing.
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They've done a really good job.
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It's based around 10 core principles and they're very easy to understand.
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There's no complexity to it.
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Now, the 10 core principles, I'll give you a summary of what they include.
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It talks about you should be operating with an understanding of what generative AI is
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and its limitations, recognizing what it can and can't do.
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You should understand what it is to use generative AI in a lawful, ethical, and responsible way.
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They talk about security, data privacy, implementing technical controls about who can access the
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data.
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They talk about meaningful human control, which is about emphasizing the necessity of
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human oversight.
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They're kind of human in the loop, the kind of thing that we talk about all the time on
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the podcast when it comes to using these systems.
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There's more as well.
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I'm not going to go into all of them, but they very much talk about skills and expertise,
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being collaborative with commercial colleagues from the start.
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I think the thing that really stood out to me is that they're really taking generative
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AI and the potential benefits as well as the potential downsides and risks.
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They're taking it very seriously.
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They're not shying away from this.
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This is very much an innovation first approach from government.
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I'm very keen to see it.
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The thing that really came through for me in the forward and in the executive summary
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is they're really pushing AI literacy.
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This is big to the point of, well, you can see this as a big change management piece
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for them as evidenced by additional resources outside of this PDF being made available.
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One such document is a poster that lists the 10 principles and the 10 core principles of
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using generative AI.
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They're encouraging departments and managers to access these posters and put them up around
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their workplace.
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You're going to start seeing local councils and all these government bodies having posters
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talking about best practice for using generative AI.
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They are not shying away from it.
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They're really, really leaning into it.
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Is this document, this is for internal use within county councils and government institutions?
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This is not more broad advice for small businesses, for example?
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No, this is very much for internal use within government, local government, NHS, all these
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government departments.
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It's about how to use this in a safe and responsible way.
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However, it applies to everyone.
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You could pick up this document and do a find and replace government for my business and
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it would be just as valid.
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It's a really well crafted document and I think it's plain English to the point where
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anyone can pick it up and learn from it.
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I think that's important because the world of generative AI, the technical aspects become
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quite opaque.
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I think even one of the challenges we sometimes face on the podcast is trying to walk that
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line between transformer architectures and retrieval augmented generation and all of
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this sort of buzzword bingo that most people are probably like, I don't know what that
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is so you've just alienated me and I don't really care about how it all works.
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I want to know what I can do with it.
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It sounds like they've bridged that gap to try and make sure that people who are not
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inside the system can still benefit.
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But I guess the other question I would have is how instructive is the document?
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Is it like, hey, you should use AI lawfully and ethically and then everyone's like, yeah,
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that makes sense.
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But then does it have instruction on how best to do that or does it not really go into that
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detail?
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There's lots of directional and kind of signposting to other documents and talking about like,
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here's a document that we've published about cyber security and here's a document about
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this that we've published.
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It is a bit instructional as well.
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Each of the core principles has a page or two going into more depth about it.
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So yeah, like I say, it's a good practical document.
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It's not short.
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It's a 70 odd page resource.
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This isn't like a five page pamphlet that you'd sit and flick through in your doctor's
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waiting room kind of thing.
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There is a little bit of detail in there that is very helpful.
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So would you advise then for SMEs, for example, thinking about, oh, crumbs, at some point
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I'm going to have to have a look at this generative AI thing and start to think about how we use
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it in our business.
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Could this be like a good first step for them to read this document?
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Very much so.
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And not just SMEs, you know, any organization, if you're a senior executive in enterprise,
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this document is as instructive for you in your role as it is for an SME entrepreneur,
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owner, managing a team of 20 to 200, whatever it may be.
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20,000 people.
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Think about how many people are in the NHS, right?
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This is just some really solid principles.
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The 10 core principles that they've come up with are very good.
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There's also some other bits in there that are really, what's the best word to describe
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it?
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Grounded in the present reality.
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So there's a section about procurement and how to procure generative AI.
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And there's a whole page on it, which is basically procuring technologies in an emerging market.
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And it talks about the risks and the limitations and how do you assess vendors when new ones
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are popping up all of the time.
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Now, this is only a page or two.
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It's not a whole textbook on it, but they're clearly recognizing that, look, this is fast
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paced.
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This is changing.
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That if you buy something today, the situation could be completely different in six months
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time.
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So you've got to make sure that you're identifying the right use cases.
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You're evaluating the technology using some really solid principles.
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Yeah.
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Overall, a great document.
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Yeah, I love that.
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I think that's some of the critical things.
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We talk about some of those things on the podcast quite often, but I think they are
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critical when it comes to getting started, figuring out the right tools.
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As we talked about a couple of times, there's so many strands to this.
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Technology is a key driver and the emerging tools and the emerging capabilities, but the
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human part of this, the change management part is just as critical.
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So yeah, nice to see a document that is a good sign poster for internal use within the
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UK government and associated infrastructure.
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But also it sounds like Martin, a document that others can use as well to try and get
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some insights into how they can move ahead with generative AI.
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Yeah.
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I'll make sure I pop a link in the show notes if anyone wants to access the document themselves.
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Well, I think that would be extremely kind of you and a good idea.
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Cool story.
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Thanks for finding that one, Martin.
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Let's move on to our next one.
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So Publicis Group, which is a pretty large global advertising communications company
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that some of our listeners might have heard of, have announced over the last week or two
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an ambitious investment of over 300 million euros in AI over the next three years, alongside
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the introduction of its new AI platform, which it calls Core AI.
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The company aims to enhance its capabilities across all of its organization with investment
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in both technology on the AI side, but also personnel development.
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Core AI is the centerpiece of Publicis Group's AI strategy, and it's designed as like an
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intelligent system that's going to incorporate things like foundational AI models, AI agents,
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there's going to be an API layer for moving information around, and also partnerships
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with third party AI services like OpenAI, Adobe, Amazon, Microsoft, people we often
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talk about here on the podcast, to basically connect trillions of data points and a database
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of 2.3 billion consumer profiles to influence how the agency groups do business, right?
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In terms of insights and strategy, media planning, creative and production, software development,
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operations, and all that good stuff.
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The market liked this because Publicis Group's stock price reached a record high off the
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back of this news.
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I think for people like you and I, Martin, you and I, you're an ex-agency and I currently
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lead an agency, it's interesting to see these big agency groups, some of them, in this case
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Publicis, going all in on AI.
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I can't say I'm surprised.
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I think it probably does take organizations or groups with this heft, right?
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This size of company to try and bake AI in in this way.
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But yeah, it's an interesting one.
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What were your thoughts on this news item?
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Not surprising when you see that they've got huge amounts of data that they're sat on.
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Digital has been at the core of the business model of these huge agencies.
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They've typically been going around acquiring businesses in the data insight and analytics
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world for a while.
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So they've got lots of top talent, typically speaking.
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I'm not sure specifically about the acquisitions of Publicis, but you see them in headlines
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about acquiring those kind of organizations regularly.
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I think this makes sense if you're going to get a competitive edge, then you've got to
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make the data that you've got available to you work for you and how else can you do that
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other than building your own AI layer.
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Makes sense that they've productized it and given it a brand name, Core AI, gives them
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something to take to the market and hang their hat on when they're going to put pictures
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and to be able to say, we've got our Core AI infrastructure.
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I'd love to see what that actually looks like.
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How is that actually manifesting itself within the team?
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Is it a front end system that people can plug into or is that more of a process and a way
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of operating?
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What does it mean?
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They talked about the API layer, so there's got to be some actual technology underpinning
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it all.
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It's not just plugging a bunch of tools into one another.
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As with all of these things, without getting your hands on it, you can't say much more
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than, oh, it's an interesting sounding press release that makes their stock price go up.
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I would welcome the opportunity to speak to some of the AI team at Publicis to talk about
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what their vision is for it and where it goes from here.
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Yeah, I think you're right.
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A lot of this, I think, is that branded AI inside play to help them differentiate themselves
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against the other big agency groups until the other big agency groups make these types
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of announcements, which are probably not far off.
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I think you're right in terms of how data centric a lot of these groups have become
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over the years.
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It's almost like their mini but slightly diversified Facebook approach.
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Facebook's got loads of data on us.
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They're using AI to help surface content and show ads to the right people and even
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to generate ads now.
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You could definitely imagine how Publicis Group could use similar tools internally for
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audience creation and segmentation for their clients, predictions in terms of consumer
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purchase habits and then building strategies, content creation, programmatic advertising
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off the back of that.
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I don't even know how much their clients are going to get to see of how that machinery
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works if I'm honest.
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I think it'll be more, these are the outcomes that we can get.
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These are the outputs that we'll produce.
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There's AI magic in here and AI is buzz and cool and we're buzz and cool and you should
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work with us.
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I suspect this is where a lot of that will come down to.
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There are some tools.
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It's nice that they're creating their own infrastructure and tools to use but there
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are some tools that hopefully lots of people are going to be able to use like Google's
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new text to video model, Martin.
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Yeah, nice to see Google Research publishing new papers.
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They've just developed a new model called Lumiere which is a space-time text to video
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diffusion model capable of transforming text and images into realistic AI generated videos.
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Now I am not going to pretend that I know what space-time text to video diffusion model
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actually means but what I can tell you is that what makes this model slightly different
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is it stands out for its ability to generate full frame rate, low resolution videos in
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one pass using what they're calling the space-time unit architecture which processes multiple
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space-time scales.
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I read this story and felt overwhelmed with technical input.
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I was like, I need someone to explain this like I'm five.
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So I asked Perplexity to explain it like I'm five and it did a good job but it basically
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did just say this is a computer system that can make videos and it looks at an image and
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it makes an image.
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There you go.
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Right, right.
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Okay.
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Maybe you've dumbed it down slightly too hard for me there.
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But yeah, this is an interesting development.
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Having seen the demo video, again demo videos, right, always got to be wary particularly
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with Google's recent track record of demo videos and people being scandalized but the
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demo video looks cool.
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The videos look high quality.
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They've trained it on a data set of 30 million videos and text captions.
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They've not disclosed any of the training data set but let's be honest, they've got
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enough data that they're sat on.
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It can do text to video generation, converts still images into videos, generates videos
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in specific styles using a reference image and it does video inpainting.
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So its capabilities are quite broad, certainly much broader than we see from some of the
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other text to image generators on the market.
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It produces five second videos at the moment and it's not available for us to use.
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This is very much just a research paper but I expect that we'll see some things on the
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market in the near future based on how long did it take for the imaging to come to market.
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It was about the best part of a year wasn't it actually?
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Yeah, I think my gut on this stuff is that sometimes we see the products accessible in
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some sort of demo form in about three months but in terms of it being baked into something
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that you could use on a sort of more regular basis, yeah six months maybe 12.
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So hopefully it will come soon.
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I mean watching the demo videos and trying to understand this space-time which just sounds
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really cool anyway.
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Like let's give them props for that.
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I feel like I'm in Star Wars or Star Trek or something.
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Is this ability to create more realistic motion?
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Because one of the issues when you're trying to create motion in tools like Runway is people's
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heads morph weirdly, even items in the videos morph weirdly.
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So it's kind of hard to get a moving image to video generation where the original image
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doesn't get mangled in some way during the process so that you look at it and you're
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like that's clearly AI generated.
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Even the best examples for me are super obviously AI generated.
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I think what reading between the lines here the nature of how this model works should
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ensure that frame to frame the image is animating or sort of moving in a way that's more realistic.
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So if someone turns their head it should look like they're normally turning their head.
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If their hair blows in the breeze it should look more natural.
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If a bow is moving left to right it should look more natural and I think that's what
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they're claiming.
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So I think you said until we can actually get our hands on it and play with it because
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the gap there will be a gap between the demos and the real world use because as we talk
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about a lot and this might be user error more than anything but you and I struggle to get
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anything that looks particularly good out of Runway if we're honest.
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I think you have to spend ages refining your prompt and thinking carefully about your input
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image to get stuff that looks really good.
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I would love this to be a step forward in usability for your average user so you can
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just chuck an image in put in a prompt to get a half decent result without all of the
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garbledness that seems to plague most video generation tools at the moment.
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That is the dream.
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While we're on video generation tools and we've mentioned Runway who we think are awesome
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by the way and doing great work in this area they are not resting on their laurels either
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because they have upgraded their AI video generation capabilities with the new multi-motion
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brush in their flagship Gen 2 video generation model.
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So many of you might know from previous podcast episodes when we discussed the introduction
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of the original motion brush which was interesting because rather than just uploading an image
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as a prompt and then Gen 2 tries to animate the whole image you could use the motion brush
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to say to just paint a certain bit of the image and just encourage the model to only
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animate that.
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So an example would be a boat on a river but you don't want but there's loads of other
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things that are in the shot but you don't want those to animate so you just paint the
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boat and then ideally the boat sails along on the river.
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Well now with the multi-brush multi-motion brush feature instead of just painting one
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thing you can now paint multiple things that will animate in different ways.
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So you might want one boat going one way but you might want another boat going in the opposite
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direction which in theory now you can do because you can paint the image in essence with different
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brushes in different colours and have them do different things.
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So this is kind of cool because it's part of the ongoing evolution of how these video
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tools are maturing giving users ever greater control about which parts of an image assuming
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they're using an image in their prompt that they want it to animate.
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I haven't actually had a play with the multi-motion brush multi-brush motion crumbs it's a bit
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of a mouthful.
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I don't know if you've had a play with this yet.
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Mark I've seen some of the videos that look pretty cool but I haven't actually tried it
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out and broken it like I probably will.
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Not with the multi-motion I tried the motion brush and just failed.
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I think with these video generation models there's a...
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Okay as with any AI you've got to understand the limitations and where it's currently at
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and I think I still not found where that kind of sweet spot is when I'm using these tools.
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I understand the limits of what GPT-3 can do and I understand how to get good value
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and good outputs from GPT-4.
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Darley and stable diffusion and mid-journey I'm getting good results from those and I
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know where I can push the boundaries and where to row back.
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But video I can't get there and I try and I try different prompting techniques and it
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does take time.
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So I think there's definitely an element of user error about this but I also think the
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models, the video models just still are a little bit...
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And that's probably why we're not seeing lots and lots of examples coming out of people
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creating great stuff.
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And actually when I see a video come out and bearing in mind we're both in these communities
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online when you do see some of these videos come out they're kind of noticeable because
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they're an exception.
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I think a lot of people are having similar struggles in finding where these models work
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well and where they fall apart because I'm really good at finding where they fall apart.
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Yeah I think you've nailed it there because the best examples I see are people creating
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sort of trailers or like very short movies that are like 60 seconds long that are fast
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cutting because these tools can only really produce two, three, five seconds of video
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that has like it starts to lose its coherence the longer it goes.
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And so they're cutting quite quickly.
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They're trying to maintain consistent characters in between different shots if you like.
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And I suspect that in most cases they're using image prompting.
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So the image is in the prompt to help really direct the system on how which, what motion
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to create what the video output video should look like.
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For me this is still in the hobbyist have some fun with it phase.
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I don't think it's got the necessary production level power to be of real use to marketers.
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I'm going to stick my neck out and say that.
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My use case that I expect to come first but again I'm frustrated because I can't get
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a decent output reasonably quickly is just adding some motion to things like social media
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static images that would have been static but it would be really great to just animate
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a few bits of them.
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To be honest the go-to for me there is still probably the little animations that Canva
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can do which are very templated.
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They look like sort of standard PowerPoint slide type animations.
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They're not particularly interesting.
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I think when you can take a branded image introduce a bit of motion in runway and then
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run that on social there'll be a time period where that's interesting and you'll get attention
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online because you're doing it and then it will become passe and everybody's images will
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do it and then no one will pay attention anymore.
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So that's the sort of that's I think going to be the first use case that as a marketer
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unlocks it for me but as I say it's far too much effort to get anything half decent for
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me at least out of it for even that simple use case.
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So until we cross that barrier I'm playing with it.
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I'm not thinking about how I can use it for work if I'm honest.
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Yeah exactly the same.
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Right let's move on from video and let's talk a little bit about OpenAI's announcements
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this week.
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Martin tell us a bit more about these enhancements and cost reductions that were shared on the
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Twittersphere.
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Small changes but significant ones nonetheless.
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They've announced some updates on their text embeddings models as well as some improvements
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and optimizations to GPT-4 Turbo and GPT-3.5 Turbo.
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Since GPT-4 Turbo was launched one of the criticisms especially from developers was
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that it had become kind of lazy.
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If you asked it to write some code it would not give you the full coding.
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Truncate the code.
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It would tell you to add in bits here and there and put lots of comments in it saying
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and this is where you need to integrate this with that.
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And sometimes you just wanted it to give me the full code.
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I've given you 40 lines of code.
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I wanted you to fix the bug and give me the full 40 lines of code back fixed.
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But instead what it does is it gives you like 10 lines and says copy and paste this here.
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Well it sounds like they've fixed that.
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They've made it less lazy and giving it a more complete output.
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They've also improved some issues that were reported with non-English UTF-8 generation.
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So this is some of the characters that it would generate.
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It wasn't very good and it would be a bit buggy.
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So GPT-3.5 Turbo they've made some improvements here on the cost front.
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So now the model offers 50% lower input prices and 25% reduced output prices making the model
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more affordable.
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And I think they've made some improvements to the model in terms of accuracy and format
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response capabilities.
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But the big headline here is it's substantially cheaper to use than it was previously.
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And that matters.
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I've been doing a project recently where we've been working with a client to help improve
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their analysis and insight extraction from lots of qualitative data.
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Spreadsheets with 70 rows of text inputs.
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Probably 30 columns of data formatted badly, completely inconsistent in terms of the responses
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you get from people.
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And using the GPT for Sheets plugin, which is excellent by the way, if anybody wants
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to integrate the OpenAI models with Google Sheets, I highly recommend that as a plugin.
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But also integrating the Claude for Sheets plugin.
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I've been playing around trying to get insight extraction and it gets expensive very quickly.
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Especially when every time you load the sheet, so every time you open it, unless you can
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turn on caching, so it stores the data for six hours, but if you don't have that turned
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on, it refreshes every cell and runs the prompt again.
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And I found that when I had GPT-4, not GPT-4 Turbo turned on, and GPT-4 Turbo is considerably
439
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:32,520
cheaper than GPT-4, just refreshing the spreadsheet once ended up costing me a couple of quid.
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So just to run it once.
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So that is quite expensive and not something that you want to do regularly.
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But yeah, GPT-3, GPT-4, if we can get the prices down, that's going to be better for
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everyone.
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Just on the insights extraction piece actually, what was fascinating to me was having columns
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with the analysis of each row from GPT-3.5, GPT-4 and Claude 2.1.
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The difference in quality and detail with the exact verbatim same prompts was really,
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really insightful.
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GPT-4, and this should come as no surprise, was far and away the more detailed, the more
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insightful, the more nuanced.
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Claude 2.1, I would say was very, very, very similar to GPT-3.5.
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If anything, maybe marginally fractionally worse, but that could be down to the style
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of the prompt.
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I mean, they were basically on a par, but the difference between 3.5 and 4 was night
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and day.
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The frustration from a practical perspective, if anybody is going to implement GPT for Sheets,
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is be aware that Google Sheets has a 30 second timeout if you're making an external API call.
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So without getting too technical on it, when you run that query and it sends that query
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and you're prompt off to open AI, if it doesn't get a response back within 30 seconds, you
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see an error message.
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And the problem with GPT-4 and GPT-4 Turbo is the latency on these models is quite slow.
461
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:36,680
So if you've got quite a long prompt and you're expecting quite a long response, it can be
462
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,920
more than 30 seconds, therefore you'll get an error message.
463
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,920
And this can, let me tell you, be infuriating.
464
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,080
Yeah, for those...
465
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,440
We've talked about this quite a few months ago, so if you're new to the podcast, you
466
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,000
might not have heard this story, but in the original days of the podcast, one of the key
467
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,980
drivers for Martin and I was we want to use AI in as many areas of podcast production
468
00:33:59,980 --> 00:34:03,840
as we can, because that's kind of half the point of doing the podcast, is to see what
469
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,420
can AI help with, right?
470
00:34:05,420 --> 00:34:09,900
Having two humans having a conversation should be one of the most human driven things that
471
00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:13,760
can exist, but we found ways to infuse AI in a number of areas.
472
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:19,160
And one of the things that we tried was using Google Sheets, using a plugin like this and
473
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:25,560
having GPT-4 write the script for the podcast based on the stories that we copy paste into
474
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:26,560
it.
475
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,080
So in cell 1A, you copy paste your story and then this is a simplification, but in cell
476
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:39,920
1B, it sends that story to GPT-4 with a set of instructions and GPT-4 writes a script
477
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,520
off the back of it and then it populates that cell, which was great, except three quarters
478
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,040
of the time it would time out, which basically made it unusable, right?
479
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Because it was supposed to be something that would save us time, but you spent so many
480
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,080
times rerunning, rerunning, rerunning the prompt until you actually got an output, whilst
481
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,300
burning API costs the whole time.
482
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:04,560
So that 30 second window is a pain and it causes a lot of issues, but if you're listening
483
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,640
to this, I think Martin's use case there is really awesome and I've had a number of people
484
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,360
when I've talked about this out and about really thinking of interesting ways to use
485
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:19,520
spreadsheet data to automatically drive GPT-4 outputs.
486
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:25,560
So another great example would be you want to do some sort of cold email outbound prospecting
487
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:30,960
process, but you want your emails to be somewhat customized, while now if you have column A
488
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:36,200
has maybe the person's name, column B has some information about their company and column
489
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:42,800
C has the particular product that you think they'll be interested in, you could now create
490
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:49,240
customized prospecting emails that are more than just the smart content that we use in
491
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,120
a lot of the automation systems today.
492
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,960
You know, hi first name, how's it going over at company, right?
493
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,480
They're going to be better than that.
494
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:03,280
So I think we're back to these are the tools, this is the practical thing they can do, right?
495
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:09,880
They can run prompts and generate information from GPT-4 at scale.
496
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,520
How are you going to structure a spreadsheet to drive value in your marketing and sales
497
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:20,480
organization using it, whilst taking on board Martin's really helpful comments about the
498
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:27,400
levels in quality difference between GPT-4, 3.5 and Claude, the cost differences, you
499
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:32,720
know, you've got to get that cost benefit ratio right and that darn 30 second timeout
500
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:37,280
that's going to trip you up if you try and do something too lengthy or complicated that
501
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,600
GPT-4 just struggles to produce the information in the right time.
502
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,960
Cool, thanks for sharing that with us Martin.
503
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,000
Can I ask you a quick question actually?
504
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,000
Who's using GPT-3.5?
505
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,720
So reducing the cost for it, so they obviously think some people are going to benefit from
506
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:54,720
that.
507
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:55,840
Like what's the use case for that?
508
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,360
Because we've just talked about how much better GPT-4 is.
509
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,840
So who's using GPT-3.5 in these things?
510
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:08,360
Yeah, so GPT-3.5 I think still does an excellent job, particularly with a well crafted prompt.
511
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:15,080
In fact, in the project I was just describing, the next iteration for me is to rather than
512
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:21,040
having zero shot prompting for GPT-3, what I'm going to do is take the output that I
513
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:30,960
got from GPT-4 and give it that in the prompt for GPT-3.5 to kind of give it an example
514
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,760
of the level of detail and information that I want.
515
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,720
So I'm going to give it a few shot prompt.
516
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:43,240
And I think that's where GPT-3.5 will come into its own because it's really good with
517
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:47,280
few shot prompting, but it means your input costs are higher because you've got to do
518
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,280
much longer.
519
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,600
You've got to do much longer prompting.
520
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:57,640
But when it sees that pattern recognition, it does a very good job.
521
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:05,480
Also for a lot of applications, GPT-3.5 again with few shot prompting is really good, you
522
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:11,020
know, writing social media posts can be very good if you've given it some examples.
523
00:38:11,020 --> 00:38:15,480
Its classification is really good for that.
524
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,280
Doing sentiment analysis, really good for that.
525
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:25,520
So I think there is a lot of use cases, but I think for most people as an assistant, you
526
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,680
know, that kind of back and forth dialogue, help me solve this problem.
527
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,320
GPT-4 is just much better.
528
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:39,600
But where you have a particularly a use case like we've got the podcast, we could, we don't,
529
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:47,960
but we could get the RSS feed from the podcast, put it into spreadsheet, taking episode title,
530
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:55,400
show notes, publish date, etc. and just have a series of columns giving us tweets, giving
531
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:01,080
us LinkedIn posts, giving us email subject lines in our style and our tone of voice because
532
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,720
we've done that in the few shot prompt where we give the prompt examples of ones that we
533
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:07,240
like and then it gives us the output.
534
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:10,560
So I think that's where it can be applied quite effectively.
535
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,520
That's quite cool because then we can use a tool like Zapier to just automatically schedule
536
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,240
those posts.
537
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:20,200
Ideally with a human in the loop, so whatever tool we're using, we can go and check and
538
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,960
make sure they're not absolute nonsense and then they're ready for posting.
539
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,360
Because nobody would ever do that, would they Paul?
540
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,840
I definitely haven't done that in the past on this very podcast and shared posts on LinkedIn,
541
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,160
fully automated and gone, ah, I didn't mean to do that.
542
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:41,120
Yeah, when I had to forward that one to you and I was like, it's Friday, I'm quite tired
543
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,920
Martin, but this makes no sense, does it?
544
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:50,120
No, sorry, that was an AI generated one that slipped through.
545
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,240
It happens to the best of us.
546
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:54,520
Right, let's move on to our next story then Martin.
547
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,360
We're going to talk 11 Labs briefly because they just got a ton of funding.
548
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:04,680
So for those of you that are new to the podcast, 11 Labs is one of the leaders in voice technology,
549
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,000
so they're the ones that have been creating synthetic voices where you write a script
550
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,360
and then it reads it out for you and sounds very, very human.
551
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,520
They've been piloting and driving voice cloning in terms of cloning your own voice and writing
552
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,920
a script that then speaks in your own voice and also trying to introduce other clever
553
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:28,960
aspects to voice synthesis around maintaining emotional style, translating between languages.
554
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,240
So if you speak in English, it will then translate it and have you speak it in Spanish in your
555
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:35,400
voice and all that good stuff.
556
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,400
And this week they got $80 million.
557
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,320
That felt a bit Dr. Evil there.
558
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:49,760
$80 million in Series B funding led by notable investors like Andreessen Horowitz, Sequoia
559
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:56,680
Capital and all these firms that are very much Silicon Valley tech investment.
560
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,800
But I think this just goes to show how people see this as being big business.
561
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,720
I did see some sort of, will I call it banter?
562
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:08,040
Yeah, let's go with banter.
563
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:13,840
But basically people questioning the value, because I think it puts their valuation at
564
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:20,800
like half a billion or something, and people questioning how defensible their moat is when
565
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,680
Meta is releasing open source models supposedly.
566
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,360
We've seen some demos of what their models can do.
567
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,920
No one can access them yet as far as I know.
568
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,560
They've been very open sourcey so far, have Meta.
569
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,760
So is there a open source voice synthesis model coming from Meta that's basically as
570
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,360
good as Eleven Labs is?
571
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,800
We've got PlayHT, we've got voice synthesis starting to be built into tools in a sort
572
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,200
of rudimentary way like Descript.
573
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:48,200
So I don't know.
574
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,680
I think that's a fair criticism in terms of just how defensible Eleven Labs' position
575
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:53,680
is.
576
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:54,680
We love them, we should say as well.
577
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:55,680
We think their technology is cool.
578
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:56,680
We play with it all the time.
579
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,360
We're always looking for cool use cases.
580
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:03,840
But a lot of money going into a lot of AI apps that might not have a defensible market
581
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,240
position, which is interesting.
582
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:14,720
When you consider that you can do AI voice generation through Google's cloud AI suite,
583
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:20,520
Amazon has got a system called Poly, which is just AI voice generation, PlayHT you've
584
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:21,760
mentioned.
585
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,480
You've got Lovo with their Geni application.
586
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,320
You've got Eleven Labs.
587
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:28,920
The competition is there.
588
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,480
Plus, as you say, Meta are working on this as well and they're very open-sourcy in the
589
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:34,480
way that they do it.
590
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:40,300
So this is going to be a very competitive landscape and it is going to be baked into
591
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:44,520
tools left, right and center.
592
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,800
Half a billion does seem high.
593
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,800
There's a lot of hype at the moment.
594
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:56,000
Can they keep the momentum going with new product releases?
595
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:03,360
They've just launched the dubbing studio, which is a voice library as well.
596
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,560
They've got quite a big voice library.
597
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:14,760
Just on that dubbing studio that offers enhanced content production capabilities where you
598
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,760
can dub entire videos.
599
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:24,400
So you can just drop in a whole clip and it will overdub a whole piece.
600
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:32,920
They've got a mobile reader app, which facilitates the instant conversion of text and URLs into
601
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,320
audio.
602
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:42,400
They've got a very good API, which even I've managed to build things that integrate with
603
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:43,400
it.
604
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,460
I'm not a coder, as I've said many times in the past.
605
00:43:47,460 --> 00:43:52,520
So if they can keep innovating and pushing the boundaries and I think what sets them
606
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:57,640
apart at the moment, and I've actually written a blog post about this, is the quality of
607
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,360
their voices is just better than all of the others.
608
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:13,280
The nearest I can find in terms of emotional range and having some depth to the voice is
609
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,520
Lovvo and the quality of the outputs you get from Jenny.
610
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:24,320
But 11 Labs, I think is just the best in terms of quality of voice at the moment.
611
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:25,320
Yeah.
612
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,640
I mean, and they're buzzing because I think they've only got, you know, they're less than
613
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,960
a hundred employees and this big evaluation.
614
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,840
So I do think they're doing exciting things.
615
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:41,320
I should say I was summarizing some back and forth on Twitter and LinkedIn questioning
616
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:42,320
this.
617
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,880
I'm not saying that's like my own personal opinion, although I think it's an interesting
618
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,160
potential marker of the amount of hype inflation that's happening in the market.
619
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,800
But I think their tools are really cool.
620
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,000
I completely agree with that.
621
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:57,840
I do want to play with Metas though.
622
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:04,680
The most recent demo I saw, I think it was last week, had people speaking one language,
623
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:10,120
but with very deliberate sort of emotional expression.
624
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:17,360
So like being scared, being excited, whispering, and then translating that into another language
625
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:24,120
spoken in that same person's voice, but maintaining the emotional performance.
626
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,080
You just think about the use cases of this for call centers and all those other things
627
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,080
that we've talked about.
628
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:34,160
But as marketers being able to create audio versions of all your blog posts that don't
629
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:40,800
sound sort of crappy and robotic like all voice synthesis has been, will there be an
630
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,360
audio book production market like we know it?
631
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:51,000
Or will you buy the text version on Kindle and you'll get three voices for free?
632
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:56,880
But if you want the really cool voices or you know, what happens when famous orators
633
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:02,520
who have lovely voices, you can now get all your books read for you by Morgan Freeman
634
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,600
because they've licensed his voice out and you can get all your audio books read in his
635
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:08,600
style.
636
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,640
There's just so many things here that again, I think we're on a cusp of a revolution in
637
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:18,520
terms of how we use spoken audio in so many different areas.
638
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,960
And I suspect that the likes of Andres and Horowitz are looking at Eleven Labs as being
639
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,780
major fuel for that, where they would think the commercial applications of this technology
640
00:46:27,780 --> 00:46:32,760
are so wide ranging that the revenue is massive that even if there's eight companies that
641
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:38,040
all go to market with very popular products, they all still make an absolute ton of cash,
642
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,960
which of course could be very possible as well.
643
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,480
Let's talk website builders.
644
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:42,480
You've been playing, Martin.
645
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,440
Talk to us about how you feel about website builders.
646
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:50,720
There's been a lot of hype around AI tools and the demo videos, as we've seen and have
647
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:56,920
in fact talked about today, showing off products in their very best light.
648
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:05,800
And one that always stuck in my mind was the Wix AI website builder, which looked so cool.
649
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:11,760
The idea that you could enter your prompt and it would go away and build you this site
650
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:19,640
and then you could edit the site by further prompting, saying make it more modern, make
651
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:24,000
it more dynamic, make it more classic or what have you.
652
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,200
And it would make all of these things on the fly.
653
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:31,160
And the video, I remember at the time we talked about it, just looked so cool and I was really
654
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,120
excited to get my hands on it.
655
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,880
Well that now exists as a product.
656
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,400
You can use it, the Wix AI website builder.
657
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:50,800
And to say that it is not what I expected based on the video is something of an understatement.
658
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:56,520
So the mechanism for this is you go on to the website builder and it starts off with
659
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,440
a chat interface and it will say, tell us the name of your business.
660
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,120
You type in the name of your business.
661
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,340
And then it says, tell us about your business and the services and products that you sell.
662
00:48:07,340 --> 00:48:10,360
And then you type in that as well.
663
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:11,840
And then there's a couple more questions.
664
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:17,020
Effectively, what they've done is they've turned a form into a chat interface to make
665
00:48:17,020 --> 00:48:21,040
it AI because that's what people do, isn't it?
666
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,400
They chat with chat GPT.
667
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,840
So that's AI, isn't it?
668
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,840
So they give you a form, you fill out the form.
669
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:34,320
Then on the next screen, you choose the color and style that you want.
670
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,500
But it's a limited range.
671
00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:39,220
So there'll be six options.
672
00:48:39,220 --> 00:48:43,520
And you might be like, oh, I want the green and white one, sans serif font.
673
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,340
So you choose that one.
674
00:48:46,340 --> 00:48:56,600
And then it picks a template and uses the GPT-3 API.
675
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:03,580
I'm assuming that's what it's using to populate this template with some text.
676
00:49:03,580 --> 00:49:12,000
The thing is, on the examples that I've seen, it's really lacking in depth.
677
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:17,560
It seems to take none of the input text that you give it from the prompt and turn it into
678
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,240
something relevant on the page.
679
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:24,240
I think it's trash, to be perfectly honest.
680
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:28,240
I think it's a really poor implementation of it.
681
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:32,960
And the reason I wanted to talk about it is because actually, I tried a version of this
682
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,880
with another CMS from a company called Doric.
683
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:42,480
So Doric is based out of Bangladesh, it's a no-code CMS.
684
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:49,720
In fact, the artificially intelligent marketing website is built and hosted on the Doric website
685
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:50,720
builder.
686
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:57,240
And they literally this week launched their AI website builder in beta.
687
00:49:57,240 --> 00:50:00,240
So it's private beta.
688
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:01,960
And it's pretty good.
689
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,120
First of all, it's much more like standard prompting.
690
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:09,480
It says, what's the name of your business and then give us a description of your business
691
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,200
in 1000 characters.
692
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,160
And you give it that and then you hit generate.
693
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,680
And then it chooses one of the templates for you, but it uses your description to choose
694
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,640
the style for you.
695
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,640
So it will, and I've played with this in a few different versions now, and it does a
696
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:28,840
pretty good job.
697
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,680
Now you can go in and edit the global styles if you don't like what it generates.
698
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:39,440
But if you're using an AI generator for your website, chances are you're not somebody with
699
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:40,520
a huge design team.
700
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,940
You're probably a solo entrepreneur.
701
00:50:42,940 --> 00:50:47,320
Maybe you're a marketing consultant or a yoga teacher or whatever.
702
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,080
You're not there building websites all the time with this detail.
703
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,520
So it does a very good job of choosing the style.
704
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,880
And then it literally will build the website.
705
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:01,400
You can see it filling in all the text in all of the different spots as it goes.
706
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:02,400
And it does a really good job.
707
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:03,960
It makes some of the detail.
708
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:10,360
You can tell in the back end, they've really thought about taking your input and applying
709
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:14,440
that to things like the product and services, applying that to what this section should
710
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,400
be versus this section.
711
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,200
And you don't see that in the Wix version.
712
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:23,480
The Wix version slaps in some sections that feel like placeholders.
713
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:29,480
And it almost feels like the text in there is placeholder as opposed to the direct version
714
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,280
where the text that it puts in feels informed by your prompt.
715
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,200
It feels relevant.
716
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:40,800
So I think for a really small startup based out in Bangladesh, they have done a fantastic
717
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,280
first stab at this.
718
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:49,080
And it gives me hope that a decent AI website builder will come to the fore.
719
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,200
And I've also seen the HubSpot AI website builder.
720
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,800
I saw it at inbound and I saw a live demo and that's more similar to the Wix version
721
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,360
in terms of the implementation of it.
722
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:08,480
It's more of a guided wizard, a WYSIWYG kind of, and what you end up with is a WYSIWYG
723
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,200
drag and drop template, but to get there, you go through a wizard asking you lots of
724
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:17,440
questions, asking you to fill in some data, pick the style and template that you like
725
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:18,440
the look of.
726
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:23,180
And then it creates it with images that it's found from stock libraries and text that it's
727
00:52:23,180 --> 00:52:27,160
generated with with ChatGPT 3.5.
728
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,160
And that does a good job.
729
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,360
That's a good starting point.
730
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:37,840
But the most pure version of an AI builder that I've seen is the version from Doric.
731
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,860
And I think they've done a very good job for saying it literally launched in beta just
732
00:52:41,860 --> 00:52:42,860
this week.
733
00:52:42,860 --> 00:52:47,200
It sounds like it's worth going and having a play with Doric if you are interested in
734
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,880
these types of AI driven website builders.
735
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:56,040
I think listening to you talk about that, it really makes me reflect on my biggest challenge
736
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,240
at the moment is I think I've got AI hype cycle whiplash.
737
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:01,640
I'm like, yes, this is amazing.
738
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:02,640
Oh, this sucks.
739
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:03,640
Yes, this is amazing.
740
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:04,640
Oh, this sucks.
741
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,080
Like I'm in the excited phase.
742
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:11,000
I'm in the trough of disillusionment and I'm flipping back and forward in a single day,
743
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,960
depending on if I'm looking at video or I'm using GPT-4 for an interesting use case or
744
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,280
I'm looking at a website builder.
745
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:24,160
I can flip between those states in a single domain like video or if I'm moving between
746
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:25,160
domains.
747
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:31,040
That is the biggest challenge at the moment in AI and using it for all these different
748
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,720
use cases because we're seeing an explosion, right?
749
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:40,000
Text generation, image generation, video generation, audio generation and then layered on top of
750
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:46,080
that what I would call quasi-thinking agents that can do some brainstorming and thinking
751
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,080
for you, right?
752
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:52,040
Like turning a prompt into a web page template.
753
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:56,480
That's a multi-step process that's beyond just getting an output.
754
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,920
We're racing ahead in so many different areas all at the same time.
755
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,600
None of them are in a straight line.
756
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:08,840
I think as a general user, it's very hard to know where you can obtain value with these
757
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:09,920
different systems.
758
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:16,160
I think if you go into using them and then you get a bad first output or it doesn't
759
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:21,200
really generate the thing that you want, you could see why people quite quickly go, AI
760
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:26,400
is fun and it's nice but it's not there yet because it doesn't give me the things I want.
761
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,480
I suspect that a lot of people are actually running into that and then thinking and putting
762
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:36,360
AI to one side for a bit and going, yeah, I can't do the things I need it to do.
763
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,680
Listening to you talk about website builders nicely encapsulates that whiplash for me and
764
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,840
it's definitely something I'm feeling.
765
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:51,560
If I was going to give any tip to a marketer that is looking to maybe deploy AI in their
766
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:57,600
product and announce it, maybe trail it with sneak preview type of thing, one way that
767
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:03,680
you can help people like me and Paul avoid such a whiplash is to just manage expectations.
768
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:08,280
Don't put out videos showcasing stuff that it can't actually do.
769
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,800
That's not what we need because we're just going to be disappointed when we try and use
770
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,320
it and that's not what you want in your users.
771
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:16,320
Right.
772
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,000
We're drifting in on time, Martin.
773
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:22,840
We probably need to swing through these last few stories quite quickly.
774
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,240
Let's briefly touch on this MIT study.
775
00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:30,440
There was a recent study by MIT's Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
776
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,960
with MIT Sloan.
777
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:41,720
Basically this study looked into the potential impact of AI on jobs with a focus on computer
778
00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:43,680
vision.
779
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:49,240
The core finding from the study is that only about 23% of tasks that require vision are
780
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:53,640
currently economically viable to automate using AI.
781
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:59,400
This is probably one of those research reports that is a counterbalance to other search reports
782
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:04,480
that are saying AI is coming for everybody's jobs and in one year nobody will have a job
783
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,440
because AI will do everything.
784
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:14,920
What this study is saying is AI's potential is large, especially on giving computers vision
785
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:21,440
to see things and do things, but the sheer cost of doing that massively outweighs having
786
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,040
humans do it.
787
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,660
I think this study was quite a nice counterbalance to some of those other studies and it further
788
00:56:28,660 --> 00:56:33,800
shines the light on the cost of using AI.
789
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:40,280
There was another story this week about just how much energy consumption is used to run
790
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:41,280
these AI models.
791
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:45,400
I'm going to get this quote wrong, but there was a quote, I think it was in the Wall Street
792
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:51,760
Journal that was something of the equivalent of asking a simple question of chat GPT is
793
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:57,000
like driving a Lamborghini to do pizza deliveries.
794
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:01,120
I think that's probably true as well.
795
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,760
You see Sam Altman talk a lot about the next revolution we're going to require is going
796
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:10,520
to be energy generation because the energy that we're going to need to run all of these
797
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:18,620
server farms and all of these graphics processing units or these emerging chip architectures
798
00:57:18,620 --> 00:57:23,880
to drive large language models, it's all going to take a lot of energy, a lot of development
799
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:25,800
of other technologies.
800
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:32,880
So, as folks, as humans, we've got a little bit more time maybe before AI comes and takes
801
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,280
on our jobs than we thought.
802
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:39,520
Yeah, that's an interesting point from Sam Altman, particularly as he has his fingers
803
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:46,000
in the energy pie, doesn't he, with Helion, the nuclear energy startup.
804
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:52,280
That's no doubt going to be powering those server farms and the rest of us for years
805
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:53,280
to come.
806
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:58,480
Yeah, if you look inside baseball on this one, the fact that Sam Altman, you see these
807
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:03,480
different things emerge where he's involved in companies designing new chips, right, because
808
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,960
he's clearly going to see how many chips the world's going to need if everything's powered
809
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:07,960
by AI.
810
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,960
He's looking at energy companies because he's like, I know how much energy is going to be
811
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,520
required to run those chips.
812
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:19,920
If you're inside the system on this, you can probably make some pretty healthy bets on
813
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:27,040
where the economic drivers are going to be that enable this AI revolution.
814
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,160
So it doesn't surprise me.
815
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,680
In fact, it's probably worth watching what a lot of these people are investing their
816
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:38,120
time and their money in outside of AI because they probably know things that we all don't.
817
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,720
Not that I'm qualified in any way to give investment advice, and I'm not, so please
818
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:46,040
don't take my advice, but I just think it's interesting.
819
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:50,560
Let's talk mobile phones, Martin, because we've been talking about one of the cool
820
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:54,320
things that we probably will see over time is that small models can be run natively on
821
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,480
a phone without having to go up to the internet and servers, which obviously has a range of
822
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,520
benefits that we've talked about.
823
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:07,600
But Samsung Galaxy S24 has been announced and released over the last week or so, and
824
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:14,320
they're, to my knowledge, the first big phone manufacturer to lean into AI in a big way.
825
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:20,200
So what do we have that the S24 is going to be bringing to the market?
826
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:25,160
It's really an AI forward mobile device.
827
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:30,240
They've really leaned into the messaging and basically the chipsets and the technology
828
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:35,080
independent allows there to be a lot of AI on device.
829
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:43,520
So they talk about live translate and an interpreter offering real-time voice and text translations,
830
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,320
which on the demo looked very cool.
831
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:50,000
They've got the Pro Visual Engine.
832
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:58,320
So this is a comprehensive suite of AI powered tools for image capturing and editing.
833
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:06,580
So things like enhanced night photography, high quality video editing and photography
834
01:00:06,580 --> 01:00:10,020
manipulation on device.
835
01:00:10,020 --> 01:00:14,640
We've got this intuitive search with circle to search.
836
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:23,320
So this is a new gesture driven feature, which allows Google to search by simply drawing
837
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,440
a circle and highlighting something on the screen.
838
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:30,800
So it will do a kind of Google image search or something similar with that, which is a
839
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,560
great new input.
840
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:37,240
I always like these new interfaces where you get a new way of interacting with tech.
841
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:38,960
I'm like, that's pretty cool.
842
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,160
That one is cool.
843
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:48,200
Because if you think about, for marketers, we talk about how if we speak to computers
844
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:53,280
most of the time, instead of typing and reading stuff, I'm not necessarily saying it's all
845
01:00:53,280 --> 01:01:00,720
or nothing on that, but as user behavior changes there, it just puts more pressure on search
846
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,520
engine optimization as a strategy.
847
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:07,880
So many things we've talked about on the podcast in terms of Google's generative search experience
848
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,600
and it's showing more and more answers in the search pane and not driving more traffic
849
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:12,680
to your website.
850
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:17,680
Then we've got people using what we expect is imminent in terms of smarter assistance
851
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:19,240
that we can ask questions of that.
852
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,280
Again, we're not looking at a search results page.
853
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,660
We're not clicking through to other websites.
854
01:01:23,660 --> 01:01:29,440
Now we've got circle things in images that you think are cool and then Google will search
855
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,440
for content around that.
856
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:37,160
The potential complexity and challenges ahead for SEO professionals over the next two or
857
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:44,120
three years, I don't think should be underestimated as people's engagement mechanisms with computers
858
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:49,960
and phones evolves to be drawing circles and speaking to agents.
859
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:55,560
Yeah, SEO is, I'm really fascinated to see how quickly that world changes.
860
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,040
And it could still be slow, I don't know, right?
861
01:01:58,040 --> 01:01:59,720
But that fascinates me.
862
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:09,200
Yeah, just on the idea of it being one of the first from an AI on device manufacturers,
863
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:17,520
the Google Pixel 8 and the Pixel 8 Pro, they have a lot of AI baked into them as well.
864
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,040
I don't think as much as this particular device.
865
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:26,480
OnePlus, which is the manufacturer of device that I use, they just announced their OnePlus
866
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:35,480
12 device this week and Qualcomm were there at the keynote talking about the on device
867
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,440
AI capabilities of that phone.
868
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:44,640
Again, don't think it quite matches that of the Galaxy S24 series, but we're seeing more
869
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,440
and more of this coming on device.
870
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:53,280
So we're probably going to see most flagship devices launched over the next year being
871
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:59,680
capable of running, I think, 10 billion parameter models on device.
872
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,280
Yeah, that's interesting.
873
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,800
And ultimately, we don't want to give them wrong impression here on the podcast.
874
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:09,480
AI has been underpinning a number of things in phones for years, right?
875
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:14,120
If you use Google Photos and it's got smart tagging capabilities and you can type in the
876
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:18,200
word dog into your search bar and it will go find all your pictures with dogs in.
877
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:25,280
So it's less that phones have got AI now, I think phones always had AI or have had forms
878
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,080
of AI for many years.
879
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:33,680
I think what's interesting here is models on device and everybody getting on the AI hype
880
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:40,080
train and making AI a differentiator for their platform, which will very soon not be a differentiator
881
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:41,080
probably.
882
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,040
I think one of the things I thought was cool here, and I don't know how it will play out,
883
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:50,360
is some of these onboard, assuming they're onboard, transcription and translation services.
884
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:55,040
Because one of my use cases back in the day for Otter, which is a transcription, one of
885
01:03:55,040 --> 01:04:00,680
the first transcription services, was pre pandemic having my phone, putting it on the
886
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:05,280
table for a meeting and then having Otter transcribe it for me.
887
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:10,720
But if a lot of that stuff ends up just onboard my phone as it is, am I going to stop using
888
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:18,600
certain platforms like Otter for creating transcriptions of calls, for example.
889
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:24,120
And I think that transcription eMarkets in extreme dynamic flux, right, because it's
890
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:29,240
being baked into Teams and Zoom and Google.
891
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:34,240
I think if I was CEO of Otter and similar tools, I'd be a bit worried honestly, because
892
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,400
it's just being baked into everything.
893
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:37,400
Yeah.
894
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,320
So I use a tool called Laxis.
895
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:43,000
We've had Eric from Laxis on the podcast recently.
896
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:49,000
I use this in Google Meet all the time and Google Meet has recently launched its own
897
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,320
transcription tool that you can have turned on.
898
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:56,120
And if you join a meeting where it's turned on, it tells everybody that it's being transcribed.
899
01:04:56,120 --> 01:05:01,360
I still use Laxis over, even though I'm in the Google workspace ecosystem, I still use
900
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:02,560
Laxis.
901
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:07,160
And the reason for that is Laxis can join calls in other services.
902
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:12,240
So by having it connected to my calendar, if it's my Google Meet, it just transcribes
903
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:13,240
it in the background.
904
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:18,840
But if I get invited to a Teams call for a client or something like that, I still get
905
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:22,160
my own transcription because Laxis joins that call.
906
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:27,000
So the idea of it being cross-platform is really critical for me.
907
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:28,000
Interesting.
908
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,360
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.
909
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:35,400
Right, two more stories listeners and then we'll let you to go about your day.
910
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:42,200
The first one very quickly is an interesting story where AI was being used for political
911
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:43,200
misinformation.
912
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:44,200
So you've probably seen this in the news.
913
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:50,200
It's been fairly high profile, but basically a robo-caller using a fake AI generated voice
914
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:56,700
of President Joe Biden urging Democrats to stay home and not participate in primary elections.
915
01:05:56,700 --> 01:06:01,680
And we talked about this a bit on the podcast and we talked about 11 Labs today.
916
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:10,200
The ability of AI to clone and mimic people's voices and with tools like HeyGen, even video,
917
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:13,800
we're drifting ever closer to that world where you can't trust what you see.
918
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,240
You can't trust a mid-journey image.
919
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:16,740
You can't trust a voice.
920
01:06:16,740 --> 01:06:18,240
You can't trust a video.
921
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:23,440
I know people who are already talking about having like safe words or stories that they
922
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:28,880
can share with each other to prove that it's actually them that's calling, right?
923
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:33,480
Like your grandmother rings you to say that she's got herself in some trouble and she
924
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:38,280
needs you to send some money and it sounds exactly like her, but actually it's synthetic
925
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,640
voice for example.
926
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:46,000
And this is the first sort of mainstream media example of it being used to influence pretty
927
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,960
major processes like the US election cycle.
928
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:56,060
So we won't go into too much detail on this, but I think as marketers and communications
929
01:06:56,060 --> 01:07:02,160
professionals we will need to work hard to set the standard to build trust in content
930
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:08,600
that's supported with AI tools because the amount of mistrust that's going to get generated
931
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,680
by bad actors is going to be large enough.
932
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:16,820
So labeling things as being generated by AI or supported with AI I think is going to become
933
01:07:16,820 --> 01:07:22,560
more and more important as the tools' abilities to pull the wool over our eyes only increase.
934
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:26,280
And so it's probably something that we all as humans need to be aware of in terms of
935
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:30,880
fact checking and really being sure that we can trust our sources, but as marketers maybe
936
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:36,540
a bit of extra requirements upon us to do the right thing in these areas.
937
01:07:36,540 --> 01:07:41,880
As we see more and more examples of it, and today there was the example of Taylor Swift
938
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:48,920
with some deep fake pornography shared widely on Twitter and she's come out and said this
939
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,920
is terrible and it's got lots of headlines.
940
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:55,880
As we see more and more examples of this, I think people are going to get more and more
941
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:57,000
aware of it.
942
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:03,000
When it's high profile cases like Joe Biden, like Taylor Swift who let's be honest is the
943
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:11,160
biggest celebrity in music right now, people are going to get smarter and more discerning.
944
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:17,080
I like to think, I have trust in humanity where people will just take a second and say,
945
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:20,360
hold on, is this real?
946
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:23,560
I think you need to be worried Martin because for me you're the biggest celebrity in the
947
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:29,760
world of AI and marketing and so having someone clone your voice from this raw source podcast
948
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:31,840
here I think is a major risk for you.
949
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:36,200
Yeah and there's enough video material out there that they might turn it into some deep
950
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:41,000
fake porn as well so strap in everyone.
951
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:48,320
I'm glad you didn't mispronounce your words there but yes, usually most podcast hosts
952
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:51,640
would edit this bit out but we're not going to do that.
953
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,520
Let's move on to our last story Martin.
954
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,240
Let's go with this Microsoft Copilot.
955
01:08:56,240 --> 01:09:01,440
We talked a bit about ChatGPT for Teams and how finally small businesses can tap into
956
01:09:01,440 --> 01:09:05,000
the commercial power of ChatGPT without having to worry about the information they put into
957
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:06,360
ChatGPT.
958
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:09,960
Hot off the heels, pretty much within a day or two.
959
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:10,960
Microsoft Copilot.
960
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:12,720
What happened here?
961
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:20,080
They have released Microsoft Copilot to everybody so it was previously restricted to organizations
962
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:24,600
that had, was it 300 seats I think you needed to buy.
963
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:30,200
Whereas now they're saying organizations of any size can sign up maybe a minimum of two
964
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:33,580
seats for the business version, I'm not entirely sure.
965
01:09:33,580 --> 01:09:39,960
But even the home and family edition of Microsoft 365 has a Copilot upgrade as well which means
966
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:44,880
that you now have access to Copilot Chat which was previously Bing Chat.
967
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:52,760
You have Copilot in Outlook which does summarization of emails as well as drafting replies for
968
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:53,760
you.
969
01:09:53,760 --> 01:10:00,800
Copilot for PowerPoint which is giving you a starting point if you just write a bit of
970
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:05,400
a prompt it will create the PowerPoint deck for you.
971
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:11,480
And some really cool demos of that actually and it does a pretty good job, a kind of B
972
01:10:11,480 --> 01:10:14,200
plus level performance.
973
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:22,320
I'm not going to knock it like I did when we reviewed the Google Duets, Google Slides
974
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,480
version.
975
01:10:24,480 --> 01:10:28,080
It seems to do a good job when you provide it with like a Word document.
976
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,440
So like say you've got a report that you've written and you need to turn it into a presentation
977
01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:34,840
it seems to do quite a good job of doing that conversion.
978
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:38,600
So I think that's going to save quite a lot of people time actually to get that starter
979
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:44,280
for 10 in terms of getting it all the material put into a PowerPoint style laid out and all
980
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:45,280
that stuff.
981
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:50,300
They've also got Copilot in Word which is pretty much bringing content generation into
982
01:10:50,300 --> 01:10:56,200
Microsoft Word and Copilot in Excel which at the moment is quite limited and not really
983
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:58,200
worth talking about.
984
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:04,760
It's the area that I have the most hope for because I think when that gets good we'll
985
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:14,880
start to see some very exciting data analysis functionalities put into the hands of everybody.
986
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:21,040
Pricing of this is $20 per month per user and is available now.
987
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,080
Yeah, it's a fascinating one.
988
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:28,040
I reflect back on us getting super excited about the Microsoft Copilot like launch video
989
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,880
which was about last March, April time.
990
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:37,840
So it's taken the best part of a year for this to be in the hands of everyone which
991
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:43,360
I think relatively speaking for what they've had to build and deploy and test it through
992
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:49,160
the larger organizations, the enterprises that have had access is probably fair game
993
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:54,360
but it's not quite as powerful as the demo made it look and we still don't have the
994
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:55,360
Excel part.
995
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:59,260
So it comes back to an earlier part of our conversation, Martin, in terms of if you see
996
01:11:59,260 --> 01:12:05,600
something cool in a research paper or a demo, how long until the power of that is in your
997
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:06,600
hands?
998
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:12,280
Probably 6 to 12 months, probably closer to 12 and reduce your expectations on that tool
999
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,600
by 25 to 50% based on what you saw in the demo.
1000
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:20,040
Seems to be a rule of thumb in terms of the commercial application of a lot of these AI
1001
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:22,640
based tools, especially the generative ones.
1002
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,120
Right, I think we'll call it there.
1003
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:26,120
Thank you for sticking with us folks.
1004
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:27,920
There was a lot to cover this week.
1005
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,920
Thank you to you, Martin, as always for your time and insights.
1006
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:31,920
Much appreciated.
1007
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:39,800
Well, thank you and I hope you can just have a moment to sit and think about what Jürgen
1008
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,360
Klopp has done for Liverpool and be thankful that it happened.
1009
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:47,840
You know, I managed to forget that over the course of the last hour and now you've just
1010
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:49,600
brought it all back for me.
1011
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,120
Sorry about that.
1012
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:57,000
It's always 5pm somewhere so it's probably time for a beer and a tear.
1013
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:01,000
But yes, that's now going to take up the focus for me for the rest of the day.
1014
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:02,880
I'm sure I've got nothing better to do.
1015
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:03,880
Yes I do.
1016
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:05,440
Right, listeners, thank you for your time.
1017
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:08,920
We'll look forward to giving you the news in our next episode.
1018
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:27,920
Until then, bye everyone.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,960
Welcome to Artificially Intelligent Marketing, a weekly podcast where we stay on top of the
2
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:15,700
latest trends, tips, and tools in the world of marketing AI, helping you get the best
3
00:00:15,700 --> 00:00:18,520
results from your marketing efforts.
4
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:23,160
Now let's join our hosts, Paul Avery and Martin Broadhurst.
5
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,080
Hello everybody, it's Paul Avery here.
6
00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:29,240
Welcome to episode 39 of Artificially Intelligent Marketing.
7
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,160
I'm here with my co-host and the lovely Martin Broadhurst.
8
00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:34,400
How are we Martin?
9
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,960
I'm splendid.
10
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:37,960
Just splendid.
11
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:38,960
That's it.
12
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,000
A single word will do it.
13
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,000
I'm not splendid.
14
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:47,680
This has got nothing to do with marketing or AI, but we do talk about football or soccer
15
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:48,880
on the podcast sometimes.
16
00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:54,920
Usually it's me teasing Martin about just how useless Derby County are, but I'm a Liverpool
17
00:00:54,920 --> 00:01:00,120
fan and today our talisman, Jurgen Klopp, has announced he'll be leaving the club.
18
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,480
So I'm really going to have to muster energy today, Martin, for this conversation because
19
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:05,840
I'm really sad.
20
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,240
Yeah, it was a big announcement.
21
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,480
I was shocked, but I could see why it might impact you.
22
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:17,480
There is going to be a grieving process to grow through, to go and grow through.
23
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:23,040
So yeah, I accept there's going to be denial, anger, and at some point you'll land on acceptance.
24
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,880
Hopefully I can get to that quickly.
25
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,360
Fortunately, as much as that's big news, there's been more big news in the world of marketing
26
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:31,880
and AI.
27
00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,960
We've got some interesting stuff to talk through today.
28
00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:39,440
We've got the UK government publishing some more guidance on generative AI from employees.
29
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:40,680
We're going to dive into it.
30
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,000
I think that's going to be really interesting.
31
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,440
We've got Google releasing a new text-to-video model that none of us can play with yet, but
32
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,640
as usual, the demo videos look awesome.
33
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:54,320
So this could be the next improvement as we iterate our way up towards production-level
34
00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,160
video quality from generative AI.
35
00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,120
Runway, one of our favorite companies, as listeners will know, we're going to talk about
36
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,600
what they've been doing to improve their video tool.
37
00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:10,680
We've got some new enhancements and cost reductions coming to OpenAI's platform for those that
38
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,680
use the API.
39
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:18,000
Eleven Labs, Voice Synthesis fame have got a ton of cash to improve their product even
40
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,000
further.
41
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:25,800
We're going to talk about the ongoing evolution of AI website builders and is it all hype
42
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,440
or are they actually any good?
43
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,280
We're going to talk about that as well.
44
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,200
We've got an MIT study on whether or not AI is going to replace us all.
45
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:33,600
That's going to be quite interesting.
46
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:38,280
Obviously, we've got, for those of you that watch TV, you'll have seen the ads for Samsung
47
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:46,360
Galaxy S24 with its AI baked in and the rise of AI phones and then a bunch of other stuff
48
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:47,360
all in between.
49
00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,280
I think, Myon, between us, we're going to help me get over the Yergin Klopp news by
50
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,160
looking at all this exciting AI news instead.
51
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:55,640
What do you reckon?
52
00:02:55,640 --> 00:03:00,120
Well, there's plenty to go at and if nothing else, it'll be a short-term distraction.
53
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:01,720
Well, let's do it.
54
00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:02,720
Let's get stuck in.
55
00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:07,360
Let's talk about this new guidance from the UK government, Myon.
56
00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:15,520
They've published a generative AI framework for HM Government, which is a 70-odd page
57
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:23,920
document covering all things about safe, responsible, and effective use of generative AI in government
58
00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:26,160
and the public sector.
59
00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:31,920
I've been fairly critical of this government and certain episodes in the past, I've given
60
00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:36,160
them a bit of a bashing, but this document is very good.
61
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:37,160
I applaud them.
62
00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:44,080
I think they've done a really comprehensive job when it comes to explaining what AI is
63
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:52,120
and generative AI, explaining how to use it, giving some examples, talking about how to
64
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:57,080
procure it, talking about the ethics and responsible use.
65
00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:02,120
It's a very broad document, but the language that they write in is plain English.
66
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,080
It's technical without being overly technical.
67
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:13,240
If you're just a departmental head in a local authority, you could pick up this and read
68
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:20,240
it without needing to know anything about deep learning and neural networks and all
69
00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,240
of that kind of thing.
70
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,920
They've done a really good job.
71
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:34,520
It's based around 10 core principles and they're very easy to understand.
72
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,360
There's no complexity to it.
73
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:41,560
Now, the 10 core principles, I'll give you a summary of what they include.
74
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:48,840
It talks about you should be operating with an understanding of what generative AI is
75
00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:53,760
and its limitations, recognizing what it can and can't do.
76
00:04:53,760 --> 00:05:02,220
You should understand what it is to use generative AI in a lawful, ethical, and responsible way.
77
00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:11,000
They talk about security, data privacy, implementing technical controls about who can access the
78
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,000
data.
79
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:17,240
They talk about meaningful human control, which is about emphasizing the necessity of
80
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:18,240
human oversight.
81
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,600
They're kind of human in the loop, the kind of thing that we talk about all the time on
82
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:27,080
the podcast when it comes to using these systems.
83
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:28,080
There's more as well.
84
00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:33,240
I'm not going to go into all of them, but they very much talk about skills and expertise,
85
00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,840
being collaborative with commercial colleagues from the start.
86
00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:44,080
I think the thing that really stood out to me is that they're really taking generative
87
00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:52,920
AI and the potential benefits as well as the potential downsides and risks.
88
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,520
They're taking it very seriously.
89
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,440
They're not shying away from this.
90
00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,600
This is very much an innovation first approach from government.
91
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,280
I'm very keen to see it.
92
00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:09,880
The thing that really came through for me in the forward and in the executive summary
93
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:15,080
is they're really pushing AI literacy.
94
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,840
This is big to the point of, well, you can see this as a big change management piece
95
00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:26,960
for them as evidenced by additional resources outside of this PDF being made available.
96
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:34,720
One such document is a poster that lists the 10 principles and the 10 core principles of
97
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,600
using generative AI.
98
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:43,000
They're encouraging departments and managers to access these posters and put them up around
99
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,440
their workplace.
100
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:51,800
You're going to start seeing local councils and all these government bodies having posters
101
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,020
talking about best practice for using generative AI.
102
00:06:55,020 --> 00:06:56,640
They are not shying away from it.
103
00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,680
They're really, really leaning into it.
104
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:06,520
Is this document, this is for internal use within county councils and government institutions?
105
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:11,600
This is not more broad advice for small businesses, for example?
106
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:20,440
No, this is very much for internal use within government, local government, NHS, all these
107
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,240
government departments.
108
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,640
It's about how to use this in a safe and responsible way.
109
00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,600
However, it applies to everyone.
110
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:33,120
You could pick up this document and do a find and replace government for my business and
111
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,040
it would be just as valid.
112
00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:40,920
It's a really well crafted document and I think it's plain English to the point where
113
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,040
anyone can pick it up and learn from it.
114
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:50,760
I think that's important because the world of generative AI, the technical aspects become
115
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:51,760
quite opaque.
116
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:56,360
I think even one of the challenges we sometimes face on the podcast is trying to walk that
117
00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:03,040
line between transformer architectures and retrieval augmented generation and all of
118
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,920
this sort of buzzword bingo that most people are probably like, I don't know what that
119
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,480
is so you've just alienated me and I don't really care about how it all works.
120
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,320
I want to know what I can do with it.
121
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,280
It sounds like they've bridged that gap to try and make sure that people who are not
122
00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,440
inside the system can still benefit.
123
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,360
But I guess the other question I would have is how instructive is the document?
124
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:29,000
Is it like, hey, you should use AI lawfully and ethically and then everyone's like, yeah,
125
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,000
that makes sense.
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But then does it have instruction on how best to do that or does it not really go into that
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detail?
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There's lots of directional and kind of signposting to other documents and talking about like,
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here's a document that we've published about cyber security and here's a document about
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this that we've published.
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It is a bit instructional as well.
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Each of the core principles has a page or two going into more depth about it.
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So yeah, like I say, it's a good practical document.
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It's not short.
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It's a 70 odd page resource.
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This isn't like a five page pamphlet that you'd sit and flick through in your doctor's
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waiting room kind of thing.
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There is a little bit of detail in there that is very helpful.
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So would you advise then for SMEs, for example, thinking about, oh, crumbs, at some point
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I'm going to have to have a look at this generative AI thing and start to think about how we use
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it in our business.
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Could this be like a good first step for them to read this document?
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Very much so.
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And not just SMEs, you know, any organization, if you're a senior executive in enterprise,
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this document is as instructive for you in your role as it is for an SME entrepreneur,
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owner, managing a team of 20 to 200, whatever it may be.
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20,000 people.
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Think about how many people are in the NHS, right?
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This is just some really solid principles.
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The 10 core principles that they've come up with are very good.
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There's also some other bits in there that are really, what's the best word to describe
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it?
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Grounded in the present reality.
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So there's a section about procurement and how to procure generative AI.
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And there's a whole page on it, which is basically procuring technologies in an emerging market.
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And it talks about the risks and the limitations and how do you assess vendors when new ones
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are popping up all of the time.
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Now, this is only a page or two.
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It's not a whole textbook on it, but they're clearly recognizing that, look, this is fast
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paced.
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This is changing.
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That if you buy something today, the situation could be completely different in six months
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time.
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So you've got to make sure that you're identifying the right use cases.
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You're evaluating the technology using some really solid principles.
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Yeah.
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Overall, a great document.
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Yeah, I love that.
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I think that's some of the critical things.
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We talk about some of those things on the podcast quite often, but I think they are
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critical when it comes to getting started, figuring out the right tools.
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As we talked about a couple of times, there's so many strands to this.
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Technology is a key driver and the emerging tools and the emerging capabilities, but the
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human part of this, the change management part is just as critical.
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So yeah, nice to see a document that is a good sign poster for internal use within the
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UK government and associated infrastructure.
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But also it sounds like Martin, a document that others can use as well to try and get
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some insights into how they can move ahead with generative AI.
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Yeah.
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I'll make sure I pop a link in the show notes if anyone wants to access the document themselves.
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Well, I think that would be extremely kind of you and a good idea.
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Cool story.
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Thanks for finding that one, Martin.
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Let's move on to our next one.
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So Publicis Group, which is a pretty large global advertising communications company
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that some of our listeners might have heard of, have announced over the last week or two
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an ambitious investment of over 300 million euros in AI over the next three years, alongside
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the introduction of its new AI platform, which it calls Core AI.
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The company aims to enhance its capabilities across all of its organization with investment
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in both technology on the AI side, but also personnel development.
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Core AI is the centerpiece of Publicis Group's AI strategy, and it's designed as like an
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intelligent system that's going to incorporate things like foundational AI models, AI agents,
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there's going to be an API layer for moving information around, and also partnerships
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with third party AI services like OpenAI, Adobe, Amazon, Microsoft, people we often
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talk about here on the podcast, to basically connect trillions of data points and a database
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of 2.3 billion consumer profiles to influence how the agency groups do business, right?
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In terms of insights and strategy, media planning, creative and production, software development,
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operations, and all that good stuff.
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The market liked this because Publicis Group's stock price reached a record high off the
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back of this news.
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I think for people like you and I, Martin, you and I, you're an ex-agency and I currently
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lead an agency, it's interesting to see these big agency groups, some of them, in this case
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Publicis, going all in on AI.
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I can't say I'm surprised.
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I think it probably does take organizations or groups with this heft, right?
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This size of company to try and bake AI in in this way.
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But yeah, it's an interesting one.
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What were your thoughts on this news item?
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Not surprising when you see that they've got huge amounts of data that they're sat on.
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Digital has been at the core of the business model of these huge agencies.
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They've typically been going around acquiring businesses in the data insight and analytics
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world for a while.
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So they've got lots of top talent, typically speaking.
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I'm not sure specifically about the acquisitions of Publicis, but you see them in headlines
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about acquiring those kind of organizations regularly.
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I think this makes sense if you're going to get a competitive edge, then you've got to
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make the data that you've got available to you work for you and how else can you do that
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other than building your own AI layer.
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Makes sense that they've productized it and given it a brand name, Core AI, gives them
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something to take to the market and hang their hat on when they're going to put pictures
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and to be able to say, we've got our Core AI infrastructure.
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I'd love to see what that actually looks like.
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How is that actually manifesting itself within the team?
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Is it a front end system that people can plug into or is that more of a process and a way
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of operating?
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What does it mean?
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They talked about the API layer, so there's got to be some actual technology underpinning
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it all.
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It's not just plugging a bunch of tools into one another.
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As with all of these things, without getting your hands on it, you can't say much more
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than, oh, it's an interesting sounding press release that makes their stock price go up.
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I would welcome the opportunity to speak to some of the AI team at Publicis to talk about
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what their vision is for it and where it goes from here.
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Yeah, I think you're right.
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A lot of this, I think, is that branded AI inside play to help them differentiate themselves
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against the other big agency groups until the other big agency groups make these types
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of announcements, which are probably not far off.
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I think you're right in terms of how data centric a lot of these groups have become
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over the years.
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It's almost like their mini but slightly diversified Facebook approach.
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Facebook's got loads of data on us.
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They're using AI to help surface content and show ads to the right people and even
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to generate ads now.
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You could definitely imagine how Publicis Group could use similar tools internally for
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audience creation and segmentation for their clients, predictions in terms of consumer
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purchase habits and then building strategies, content creation, programmatic advertising
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off the back of that.
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I don't even know how much their clients are going to get to see of how that machinery
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works if I'm honest.
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I think it'll be more, these are the outcomes that we can get.
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These are the outputs that we'll produce.
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There's AI magic in here and AI is buzz and cool and we're buzz and cool and you should
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work with us.
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I suspect this is where a lot of that will come down to.
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There are some tools.
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It's nice that they're creating their own infrastructure and tools to use but there
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are some tools that hopefully lots of people are going to be able to use like Google's
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new text to video model, Martin.
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Yeah, nice to see Google Research publishing new papers.
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They've just developed a new model called Lumiere which is a space-time text to video
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diffusion model capable of transforming text and images into realistic AI generated videos.
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Now I am not going to pretend that I know what space-time text to video diffusion model
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actually means but what I can tell you is that what makes this model slightly different
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is it stands out for its ability to generate full frame rate, low resolution videos in
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one pass using what they're calling the space-time unit architecture which processes multiple
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space-time scales.
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I read this story and felt overwhelmed with technical input.
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I was like, I need someone to explain this like I'm five.
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So I asked Perplexity to explain it like I'm five and it did a good job but it basically
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did just say this is a computer system that can make videos and it looks at an image and
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it makes an image.
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There you go.
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Right, right.
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Okay.
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Maybe you've dumbed it down slightly too hard for me there.
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But yeah, this is an interesting development.
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Having seen the demo video, again demo videos, right, always got to be wary particularly
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with Google's recent track record of demo videos and people being scandalized but the
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demo video looks cool.
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The videos look high quality.
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They've trained it on a data set of 30 million videos and text captions.
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They've not disclosed any of the training data set but let's be honest, they've got
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enough data that they're sat on.
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It can do text to video generation, converts still images into videos, generates videos
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in specific styles using a reference image and it does video inpainting.
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So its capabilities are quite broad, certainly much broader than we see from some of the
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other text to image generators on the market.
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It produces five second videos at the moment and it's not available for us to use.
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This is very much just a research paper but I expect that we'll see some things on the
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market in the near future based on how long did it take for the imaging to come to market.
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It was about the best part of a year wasn't it actually?
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Yeah, I think my gut on this stuff is that sometimes we see the products accessible in
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some sort of demo form in about three months but in terms of it being baked into something
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that you could use on a sort of more regular basis, yeah six months maybe 12.
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So hopefully it will come soon.
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I mean watching the demo videos and trying to understand this space-time which just sounds
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really cool anyway.
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Like let's give them props for that.
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I feel like I'm in Star Wars or Star Trek or something.
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Is this ability to create more realistic motion?
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Because one of the issues when you're trying to create motion in tools like Runway is people's
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heads morph weirdly, even items in the videos morph weirdly.
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So it's kind of hard to get a moving image to video generation where the original image
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doesn't get mangled in some way during the process so that you look at it and you're
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like that's clearly AI generated.
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Even the best examples for me are super obviously AI generated.
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I think what reading between the lines here the nature of how this model works should
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ensure that frame to frame the image is animating or sort of moving in a way that's more realistic.
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So if someone turns their head it should look like they're normally turning their head.
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If their hair blows in the breeze it should look more natural.
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If a bow is moving left to right it should look more natural and I think that's what
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they're claiming.
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So I think you said until we can actually get our hands on it and play with it because
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the gap there will be a gap between the demos and the real world use because as we talk
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about a lot and this might be user error more than anything but you and I struggle to get
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anything that looks particularly good out of Runway if we're honest.
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I think you have to spend ages refining your prompt and thinking carefully about your input
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image to get stuff that looks really good.
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I would love this to be a step forward in usability for your average user so you can
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just chuck an image in put in a prompt to get a half decent result without all of the
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garbledness that seems to plague most video generation tools at the moment.
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That is the dream.
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While we're on video generation tools and we've mentioned Runway who we think are awesome
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by the way and doing great work in this area they are not resting on their laurels either
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because they have upgraded their AI video generation capabilities with the new multi-motion
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brush in their flagship Gen 2 video generation model.
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So many of you might know from previous podcast episodes when we discussed the introduction
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of the original motion brush which was interesting because rather than just uploading an image
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as a prompt and then Gen 2 tries to animate the whole image you could use the motion brush
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to say to just paint a certain bit of the image and just encourage the model to only
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animate that.
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So an example would be a boat on a river but you don't want but there's loads of other
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things that are in the shot but you don't want those to animate so you just paint the
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boat and then ideally the boat sails along on the river.
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Well now with the multi-brush multi-motion brush feature instead of just painting one
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thing you can now paint multiple things that will animate in different ways.
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So you might want one boat going one way but you might want another boat going in the opposite
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direction which in theory now you can do because you can paint the image in essence with different
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brushes in different colours and have them do different things.
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So this is kind of cool because it's part of the ongoing evolution of how these video
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tools are maturing giving users ever greater control about which parts of an image assuming
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they're using an image in their prompt that they want it to animate.
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I haven't actually had a play with the multi-motion brush multi-brush motion crumbs it's a bit
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of a mouthful.
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I don't know if you've had a play with this yet.
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Mark I've seen some of the videos that look pretty cool but I haven't actually tried it
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out and broken it like I probably will.
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Not with the multi-motion I tried the motion brush and just failed.
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I think with these video generation models there's a...
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Okay as with any AI you've got to understand the limitations and where it's currently at
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and I think I still not found where that kind of sweet spot is when I'm using these tools.
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I understand the limits of what GPT-3 can do and I understand how to get good value
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and good outputs from GPT-4.
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Darley and stable diffusion and mid-journey I'm getting good results from those and I
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know where I can push the boundaries and where to row back.
356
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:57,880
But video I can't get there and I try and I try different prompting techniques and it
357
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,320
does take time.
358
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:04,360
So I think there's definitely an element of user error about this but I also think the
359
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:11,760
models, the video models just still are a little bit...
360
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:19,600
And that's probably why we're not seeing lots and lots of examples coming out of people
361
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:20,600
creating great stuff.
362
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,800
And actually when I see a video come out and bearing in mind we're both in these communities
363
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:32,200
online when you do see some of these videos come out they're kind of noticeable because
364
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,840
they're an exception.
365
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:42,440
I think a lot of people are having similar struggles in finding where these models work
366
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,120
well and where they fall apart because I'm really good at finding where they fall apart.
367
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:53,400
Yeah I think you've nailed it there because the best examples I see are people creating
368
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:59,120
sort of trailers or like very short movies that are like 60 seconds long that are fast
369
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:05,120
cutting because these tools can only really produce two, three, five seconds of video
370
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,400
that has like it starts to lose its coherence the longer it goes.
371
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:10,800
And so they're cutting quite quickly.
372
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:17,920
They're trying to maintain consistent characters in between different shots if you like.
373
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,720
And I suspect that in most cases they're using image prompting.
374
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:26,520
So the image is in the prompt to help really direct the system on how which, what motion
375
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,120
to create what the video output video should look like.
376
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,600
For me this is still in the hobbyist have some fun with it phase.
377
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,440
I don't think it's got the necessary production level power to be of real use to marketers.
378
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,240
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that.
379
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:48,720
My use case that I expect to come first but again I'm frustrated because I can't get
380
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:54,320
a decent output reasonably quickly is just adding some motion to things like social media
381
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,680
static images that would have been static but it would be really great to just animate
382
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,440
a few bits of them.
383
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,840
To be honest the go-to for me there is still probably the little animations that Canva
384
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,540
can do which are very templated.
385
00:27:08,540 --> 00:27:12,440
They look like sort of standard PowerPoint slide type animations.
386
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,840
They're not particularly interesting.
387
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:19,360
I think when you can take a branded image introduce a bit of motion in runway and then
388
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:25,740
run that on social there'll be a time period where that's interesting and you'll get attention
389
00:27:25,740 --> 00:27:29,640
online because you're doing it and then it will become passe and everybody's images will
390
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,160
do it and then no one will pay attention anymore.
391
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,840
So that's the sort of that's I think going to be the first use case that as a marketer
392
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,160
unlocks it for me but as I say it's far too much effort to get anything half decent for
393
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,120
me at least out of it for even that simple use case.
394
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:46,280
So until we cross that barrier I'm playing with it.
395
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,640
I'm not thinking about how I can use it for work if I'm honest.
396
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,880
Yeah exactly the same.
397
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,920
Right let's move on from video and let's talk a little bit about OpenAI's announcements
398
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:57,920
this week.
399
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,480
Martin tell us a bit more about these enhancements and cost reductions that were shared on the
400
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:04,760
Twittersphere.
401
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,240
Small changes but significant ones nonetheless.
402
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:14,680
They've announced some updates on their text embeddings models as well as some improvements
403
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:21,760
and optimizations to GPT-4 Turbo and GPT-3.5 Turbo.
404
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:28,520
Since GPT-4 Turbo was launched one of the criticisms especially from developers was
405
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,020
that it had become kind of lazy.
406
00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:37,040
If you asked it to write some code it would not give you the full coding.
407
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,680
Truncate the code.
408
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,960
It would tell you to add in bits here and there and put lots of comments in it saying
409
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,360
and this is where you need to integrate this with that.
410
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,680
And sometimes you just wanted it to give me the full code.
411
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,680
I've given you 40 lines of code.
412
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:59,700
I wanted you to fix the bug and give me the full 40 lines of code back fixed.
413
00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:04,440
But instead what it does is it gives you like 10 lines and says copy and paste this here.
414
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,520
Well it sounds like they've fixed that.
415
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:13,680
They've made it less lazy and giving it a more complete output.
416
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:21,560
They've also improved some issues that were reported with non-English UTF-8 generation.
417
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,160
So this is some of the characters that it would generate.
418
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,920
It wasn't very good and it would be a bit buggy.
419
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:37,200
So GPT-3.5 Turbo they've made some improvements here on the cost front.
420
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:47,080
So now the model offers 50% lower input prices and 25% reduced output prices making the model
421
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,640
more affordable.
422
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,600
And I think they've made some improvements to the model in terms of accuracy and format
423
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:55,840
response capabilities.
424
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:01,860
But the big headline here is it's substantially cheaper to use than it was previously.
425
00:30:01,860 --> 00:30:02,860
And that matters.
426
00:30:02,860 --> 00:30:11,520
I've been doing a project recently where we've been working with a client to help improve
427
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:18,600
their analysis and insight extraction from lots of qualitative data.
428
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:24,800
Spreadsheets with 70 rows of text inputs.
429
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:32,160
Probably 30 columns of data formatted badly, completely inconsistent in terms of the responses
430
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,080
you get from people.
431
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:40,700
And using the GPT for Sheets plugin, which is excellent by the way, if anybody wants
432
00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:48,040
to integrate the OpenAI models with Google Sheets, I highly recommend that as a plugin.
433
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,280
But also integrating the Claude for Sheets plugin.
434
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:57,080
I've been playing around trying to get insight extraction and it gets expensive very quickly.
435
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:04,640
Especially when every time you load the sheet, so every time you open it, unless you can
436
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,800
turn on caching, so it stores the data for six hours, but if you don't have that turned
437
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,800
on, it refreshes every cell and runs the prompt again.
438
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:21,240
And I found that when I had GPT-4, not GPT-4 Turbo turned on, and GPT-4 Turbo is considerably
439
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:32,520
cheaper than GPT-4, just refreshing the spreadsheet once ended up costing me a couple of quid.
440
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,620
So just to run it once.
441
00:31:34,620 --> 00:31:38,560
So that is quite expensive and not something that you want to do regularly.
442
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:46,880
But yeah, GPT-3, GPT-4, if we can get the prices down, that's going to be better for
443
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,480
everyone.
444
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:56,080
Just on the insights extraction piece actually, what was fascinating to me was having columns
445
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:08,400
with the analysis of each row from GPT-3.5, GPT-4 and Claude 2.1.
446
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:17,200
The difference in quality and detail with the exact verbatim same prompts was really,
447
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,600
really insightful.
448
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:25,920
GPT-4, and this should come as no surprise, was far and away the more detailed, the more
449
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,280
insightful, the more nuanced.
450
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:38,600
Claude 2.1, I would say was very, very, very similar to GPT-3.5.
451
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:44,280
If anything, maybe marginally fractionally worse, but that could be down to the style
452
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,280
of the prompt.
453
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:51,480
I mean, they were basically on a par, but the difference between 3.5 and 4 was night
454
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,680
and day.
455
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:58,600
The frustration from a practical perspective, if anybody is going to implement GPT for Sheets,
456
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:06,560
is be aware that Google Sheets has a 30 second timeout if you're making an external API call.
457
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:12,840
So without getting too technical on it, when you run that query and it sends that query
458
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:19,640
and you're prompt off to open AI, if it doesn't get a response back within 30 seconds, you
459
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,640
see an error message.
460
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:29,280
And the problem with GPT-4 and GPT-4 Turbo is the latency on these models is quite slow.
461
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:36,680
So if you've got quite a long prompt and you're expecting quite a long response, it can be
462
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,920
more than 30 seconds, therefore you'll get an error message.
463
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,920
And this can, let me tell you, be infuriating.
464
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,080
Yeah, for those...
465
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,440
We've talked about this quite a few months ago, so if you're new to the podcast, you
466
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,000
might not have heard this story, but in the original days of the podcast, one of the key
467
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,980
drivers for Martin and I was we want to use AI in as many areas of podcast production
468
00:33:59,980 --> 00:34:03,840
as we can, because that's kind of half the point of doing the podcast, is to see what
469
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,420
can AI help with, right?
470
00:34:05,420 --> 00:34:09,900
Having two humans having a conversation should be one of the most human driven things that
471
00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:13,760
can exist, but we found ways to infuse AI in a number of areas.
472
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:19,160
And one of the things that we tried was using Google Sheets, using a plugin like this and
473
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:25,560
having GPT-4 write the script for the podcast based on the stories that we copy paste into
474
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:26,560
it.
475
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,080
So in cell 1A, you copy paste your story and then this is a simplification, but in cell
476
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:39,920
1B, it sends that story to GPT-4 with a set of instructions and GPT-4 writes a script
477
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,520
off the back of it and then it populates that cell, which was great, except three quarters
478
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,040
of the time it would time out, which basically made it unusable, right?
479
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Because it was supposed to be something that would save us time, but you spent so many
480
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,080
times rerunning, rerunning, rerunning the prompt until you actually got an output, whilst
481
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,300
burning API costs the whole time.
482
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:04,560
So that 30 second window is a pain and it causes a lot of issues, but if you're listening
483
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,640
to this, I think Martin's use case there is really awesome and I've had a number of people
484
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,360
when I've talked about this out and about really thinking of interesting ways to use
485
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:19,520
spreadsheet data to automatically drive GPT-4 outputs.
486
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:25,560
So another great example would be you want to do some sort of cold email outbound prospecting
487
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:30,960
process, but you want your emails to be somewhat customized, while now if you have column A
488
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:36,200
has maybe the person's name, column B has some information about their company and column
489
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:42,800
C has the particular product that you think they'll be interested in, you could now create
490
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:49,240
customized prospecting emails that are more than just the smart content that we use in
491
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,120
a lot of the automation systems today.
492
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,960
You know, hi first name, how's it going over at company, right?
493
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,480
They're going to be better than that.
494
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:03,280
So I think we're back to these are the tools, this is the practical thing they can do, right?
495
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:09,880
They can run prompts and generate information from GPT-4 at scale.
496
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,520
How are you going to structure a spreadsheet to drive value in your marketing and sales
497
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:20,480
organization using it, whilst taking on board Martin's really helpful comments about the
498
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:27,400
levels in quality difference between GPT-4, 3.5 and Claude, the cost differences, you
499
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:32,720
know, you've got to get that cost benefit ratio right and that darn 30 second timeout
500
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:37,280
that's going to trip you up if you try and do something too lengthy or complicated that
501
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,600
GPT-4 just struggles to produce the information in the right time.
502
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,960
Cool, thanks for sharing that with us Martin.
503
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,000
Can I ask you a quick question actually?
504
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,000
Who's using GPT-3.5?
505
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,720
So reducing the cost for it, so they obviously think some people are going to benefit from
506
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:54,720
that.
507
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:55,840
Like what's the use case for that?
508
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,360
Because we've just talked about how much better GPT-4 is.
509
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,840
So who's using GPT-3.5 in these things?
510
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:08,360
Yeah, so GPT-3.5 I think still does an excellent job, particularly with a well crafted prompt.
511
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:15,080
In fact, in the project I was just describing, the next iteration for me is to rather than
512
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:21,040
having zero shot prompting for GPT-3, what I'm going to do is take the output that I
513
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:30,960
got from GPT-4 and give it that in the prompt for GPT-3.5 to kind of give it an example
514
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,760
of the level of detail and information that I want.
515
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,720
So I'm going to give it a few shot prompt.
516
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:43,240
And I think that's where GPT-3.5 will come into its own because it's really good with
517
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:47,280
few shot prompting, but it means your input costs are higher because you've got to do
518
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,280
much longer.
519
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,600
You've got to do much longer prompting.
520
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:57,640
But when it sees that pattern recognition, it does a very good job.
521
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:05,480
Also for a lot of applications, GPT-3.5 again with few shot prompting is really good, you
522
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:11,020
know, writing social media posts can be very good if you've given it some examples.
523
00:38:11,020 --> 00:38:15,480
Its classification is really good for that.
524
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,280
Doing sentiment analysis, really good for that.
525
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:25,520
So I think there is a lot of use cases, but I think for most people as an assistant, you
526
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,680
know, that kind of back and forth dialogue, help me solve this problem.
527
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,320
GPT-4 is just much better.
528
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:39,600
But where you have a particularly a use case like we've got the podcast, we could, we don't,
529
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:47,960
but we could get the RSS feed from the podcast, put it into spreadsheet, taking episode title,
530
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:55,400
show notes, publish date, etc. and just have a series of columns giving us tweets, giving
531
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:01,080
us LinkedIn posts, giving us email subject lines in our style and our tone of voice because
532
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,720
we've done that in the few shot prompt where we give the prompt examples of ones that we
533
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:07,240
like and then it gives us the output.
534
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:10,560
So I think that's where it can be applied quite effectively.
535
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,520
That's quite cool because then we can use a tool like Zapier to just automatically schedule
536
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,240
those posts.
537
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:20,200
Ideally with a human in the loop, so whatever tool we're using, we can go and check and
538
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,960
make sure they're not absolute nonsense and then they're ready for posting.
539
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,360
Because nobody would ever do that, would they Paul?
540
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,840
I definitely haven't done that in the past on this very podcast and shared posts on LinkedIn,
541
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,160
fully automated and gone, ah, I didn't mean to do that.
542
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:41,120
Yeah, when I had to forward that one to you and I was like, it's Friday, I'm quite tired
543
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,920
Martin, but this makes no sense, does it?
544
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:50,120
No, sorry, that was an AI generated one that slipped through.
545
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,240
It happens to the best of us.
546
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:54,520
Right, let's move on to our next story then Martin.
547
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,360
We're going to talk 11 Labs briefly because they just got a ton of funding.
548
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:04,680
So for those of you that are new to the podcast, 11 Labs is one of the leaders in voice technology,
549
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,000
so they're the ones that have been creating synthetic voices where you write a script
550
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,360
and then it reads it out for you and sounds very, very human.
551
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,520
They've been piloting and driving voice cloning in terms of cloning your own voice and writing
552
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,920
a script that then speaks in your own voice and also trying to introduce other clever
553
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:28,960
aspects to voice synthesis around maintaining emotional style, translating between languages.
554
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,240
So if you speak in English, it will then translate it and have you speak it in Spanish in your
555
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:35,400
voice and all that good stuff.
556
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,400
And this week they got $80 million.
557
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,320
That felt a bit Dr. Evil there.
558
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:49,760
$80 million in Series B funding led by notable investors like Andreessen Horowitz, Sequoia
559
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:56,680
Capital and all these firms that are very much Silicon Valley tech investment.
560
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,800
But I think this just goes to show how people see this as being big business.
561
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,720
I did see some sort of, will I call it banter?
562
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:08,040
Yeah, let's go with banter.
563
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:13,840
But basically people questioning the value, because I think it puts their valuation at
564
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:20,800
like half a billion or something, and people questioning how defensible their moat is when
565
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,680
Meta is releasing open source models supposedly.
566
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,360
We've seen some demos of what their models can do.
567
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,920
No one can access them yet as far as I know.
568
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,560
They've been very open sourcey so far, have Meta.
569
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,760
So is there a open source voice synthesis model coming from Meta that's basically as
570
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,360
good as Eleven Labs is?
571
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,800
We've got PlayHT, we've got voice synthesis starting to be built into tools in a sort
572
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,200
of rudimentary way like Descript.
573
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:48,200
So I don't know.
574
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,680
I think that's a fair criticism in terms of just how defensible Eleven Labs' position
575
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:53,680
is.
576
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:54,680
We love them, we should say as well.
577
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:55,680
We think their technology is cool.
578
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:56,680
We play with it all the time.
579
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,360
We're always looking for cool use cases.
580
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:03,840
But a lot of money going into a lot of AI apps that might not have a defensible market
581
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,240
position, which is interesting.
582
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:14,720
When you consider that you can do AI voice generation through Google's cloud AI suite,
583
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:20,520
Amazon has got a system called Poly, which is just AI voice generation, PlayHT you've
584
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:21,760
mentioned.
585
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,480
You've got Lovo with their Geni application.
586
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,320
You've got Eleven Labs.
587
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:28,920
The competition is there.
588
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,480
Plus, as you say, Meta are working on this as well and they're very open-sourcy in the
589
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:34,480
way that they do it.
590
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:40,300
So this is going to be a very competitive landscape and it is going to be baked into
591
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:44,520
tools left, right and center.
592
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,800
Half a billion does seem high.
593
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,800
There's a lot of hype at the moment.
594
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:56,000
Can they keep the momentum going with new product releases?
595
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:03,360
They've just launched the dubbing studio, which is a voice library as well.
596
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,560
They've got quite a big voice library.
597
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:14,760
Just on that dubbing studio that offers enhanced content production capabilities where you
598
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,760
can dub entire videos.
599
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:24,400
So you can just drop in a whole clip and it will overdub a whole piece.
600
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:32,920
They've got a mobile reader app, which facilitates the instant conversion of text and URLs into
601
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,320
audio.
602
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:42,400
They've got a very good API, which even I've managed to build things that integrate with
603
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:43,400
it.
604
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,460
I'm not a coder, as I've said many times in the past.
605
00:43:47,460 --> 00:43:52,520
So if they can keep innovating and pushing the boundaries and I think what sets them
606
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:57,640
apart at the moment, and I've actually written a blog post about this, is the quality of
607
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,360
their voices is just better than all of the others.
608
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:13,280
The nearest I can find in terms of emotional range and having some depth to the voice is
609
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,520
Lovvo and the quality of the outputs you get from Jenny.
610
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:24,320
But 11 Labs, I think is just the best in terms of quality of voice at the moment.
611
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:25,320
Yeah.
612
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,640
I mean, and they're buzzing because I think they've only got, you know, they're less than
613
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,960
a hundred employees and this big evaluation.
614
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,840
So I do think they're doing exciting things.
615
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:41,320
I should say I was summarizing some back and forth on Twitter and LinkedIn questioning
616
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:42,320
this.
617
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,880
I'm not saying that's like my own personal opinion, although I think it's an interesting
618
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,160
potential marker of the amount of hype inflation that's happening in the market.
619
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,800
But I think their tools are really cool.
620
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,000
I completely agree with that.
621
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:57,840
I do want to play with Metas though.
622
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:04,680
The most recent demo I saw, I think it was last week, had people speaking one language,
623
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:10,120
but with very deliberate sort of emotional expression.
624
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:17,360
So like being scared, being excited, whispering, and then translating that into another language
625
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:24,120
spoken in that same person's voice, but maintaining the emotional performance.
626
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,080
You just think about the use cases of this for call centers and all those other things
627
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,080
that we've talked about.
628
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:34,160
But as marketers being able to create audio versions of all your blog posts that don't
629
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:40,800
sound sort of crappy and robotic like all voice synthesis has been, will there be an
630
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,360
audio book production market like we know it?
631
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:51,000
Or will you buy the text version on Kindle and you'll get three voices for free?
632
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:56,880
But if you want the really cool voices or you know, what happens when famous orators
633
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:02,520
who have lovely voices, you can now get all your books read for you by Morgan Freeman
634
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,600
because they've licensed his voice out and you can get all your audio books read in his
635
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:08,600
style.
636
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,640
There's just so many things here that again, I think we're on a cusp of a revolution in
637
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:18,520
terms of how we use spoken audio in so many different areas.
638
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,960
And I suspect that the likes of Andres and Horowitz are looking at Eleven Labs as being
639
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,780
major fuel for that, where they would think the commercial applications of this technology
640
00:46:27,780 --> 00:46:32,760
are so wide ranging that the revenue is massive that even if there's eight companies that
641
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:38,040
all go to market with very popular products, they all still make an absolute ton of cash,
642
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,960
which of course could be very possible as well.
643
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,480
Let's talk website builders.
644
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:42,480
You've been playing, Martin.
645
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,440
Talk to us about how you feel about website builders.
646
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:50,720
There's been a lot of hype around AI tools and the demo videos, as we've seen and have
647
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:56,920
in fact talked about today, showing off products in their very best light.
648
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:05,800
And one that always stuck in my mind was the Wix AI website builder, which looked so cool.
649
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:11,760
The idea that you could enter your prompt and it would go away and build you this site
650
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:19,640
and then you could edit the site by further prompting, saying make it more modern, make
651
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:24,000
it more dynamic, make it more classic or what have you.
652
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,200
And it would make all of these things on the fly.
653
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:31,160
And the video, I remember at the time we talked about it, just looked so cool and I was really
654
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,120
excited to get my hands on it.
655
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,880
Well that now exists as a product.
656
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,400
You can use it, the Wix AI website builder.
657
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:50,800
And to say that it is not what I expected based on the video is something of an understatement.
658
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:56,520
So the mechanism for this is you go on to the website builder and it starts off with
659
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,440
a chat interface and it will say, tell us the name of your business.
660
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,120
You type in the name of your business.
661
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,340
And then it says, tell us about your business and the services and products that you sell.
662
00:48:07,340 --> 00:48:10,360
And then you type in that as well.
663
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:11,840
And then there's a couple more questions.
664
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:17,020
Effectively, what they've done is they've turned a form into a chat interface to make
665
00:48:17,020 --> 00:48:21,040
it AI because that's what people do, isn't it?
666
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,400
They chat with chat GPT.
667
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,840
So that's AI, isn't it?
668
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,840
So they give you a form, you fill out the form.
669
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:34,320
Then on the next screen, you choose the color and style that you want.
670
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,500
But it's a limited range.
671
00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:39,220
So there'll be six options.
672
00:48:39,220 --> 00:48:43,520
And you might be like, oh, I want the green and white one, sans serif font.
673
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,340
So you choose that one.
674
00:48:46,340 --> 00:48:56,600
And then it picks a template and uses the GPT-3 API.
675
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:03,580
I'm assuming that's what it's using to populate this template with some text.
676
00:49:03,580 --> 00:49:12,000
The thing is, on the examples that I've seen, it's really lacking in depth.
677
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:17,560
It seems to take none of the input text that you give it from the prompt and turn it into
678
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,240
something relevant on the page.
679
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:24,240
I think it's trash, to be perfectly honest.
680
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:28,240
I think it's a really poor implementation of it.
681
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:32,960
And the reason I wanted to talk about it is because actually, I tried a version of this
682
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,880
with another CMS from a company called Doric.
683
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:42,480
So Doric is based out of Bangladesh, it's a no-code CMS.
684
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:49,720
In fact, the artificially intelligent marketing website is built and hosted on the Doric website
685
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:50,720
builder.
686
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:57,240
And they literally this week launched their AI website builder in beta.
687
00:49:57,240 --> 00:50:00,240
So it's private beta.
688
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:01,960
And it's pretty good.
689
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,120
First of all, it's much more like standard prompting.
690
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:09,480
It says, what's the name of your business and then give us a description of your business
691
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,200
in 1000 characters.
692
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,160
And you give it that and then you hit generate.
693
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,680
And then it chooses one of the templates for you, but it uses your description to choose
694
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,640
the style for you.
695
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,640
So it will, and I've played with this in a few different versions now, and it does a
696
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:28,840
pretty good job.
697
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,680
Now you can go in and edit the global styles if you don't like what it generates.
698
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:39,440
But if you're using an AI generator for your website, chances are you're not somebody with
699
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:40,520
a huge design team.
700
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,940
You're probably a solo entrepreneur.
701
00:50:42,940 --> 00:50:47,320
Maybe you're a marketing consultant or a yoga teacher or whatever.
702
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,080
You're not there building websites all the time with this detail.
703
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,520
So it does a very good job of choosing the style.
704
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,880
And then it literally will build the website.
705
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:01,400
You can see it filling in all the text in all of the different spots as it goes.
706
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:02,400
And it does a really good job.
707
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:03,960
It makes some of the detail.
708
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:10,360
You can tell in the back end, they've really thought about taking your input and applying
709
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:14,440
that to things like the product and services, applying that to what this section should
710
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,400
be versus this section.
711
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,200
And you don't see that in the Wix version.
712
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:23,480
The Wix version slaps in some sections that feel like placeholders.
713
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:29,480
And it almost feels like the text in there is placeholder as opposed to the direct version
714
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,280
where the text that it puts in feels informed by your prompt.
715
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,200
It feels relevant.
716
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:40,800
So I think for a really small startup based out in Bangladesh, they have done a fantastic
717
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,280
first stab at this.
718
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:49,080
And it gives me hope that a decent AI website builder will come to the fore.
719
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,200
And I've also seen the HubSpot AI website builder.
720
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,800
I saw it at inbound and I saw a live demo and that's more similar to the Wix version
721
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,360
in terms of the implementation of it.
722
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:08,480
It's more of a guided wizard, a WYSIWYG kind of, and what you end up with is a WYSIWYG
723
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,200
drag and drop template, but to get there, you go through a wizard asking you lots of
724
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:17,440
questions, asking you to fill in some data, pick the style and template that you like
725
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:18,440
the look of.
726
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:23,180
And then it creates it with images that it's found from stock libraries and text that it's
727
00:52:23,180 --> 00:52:27,160
generated with with ChatGPT 3.5.
728
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,160
And that does a good job.
729
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,360
That's a good starting point.
730
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:37,840
But the most pure version of an AI builder that I've seen is the version from Doric.
731
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,860
And I think they've done a very good job for saying it literally launched in beta just
732
00:52:41,860 --> 00:52:42,860
this week.
733
00:52:42,860 --> 00:52:47,200
It sounds like it's worth going and having a play with Doric if you are interested in
734
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,880
these types of AI driven website builders.
735
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:56,040
I think listening to you talk about that, it really makes me reflect on my biggest challenge
736
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,240
at the moment is I think I've got AI hype cycle whiplash.
737
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:01,640
I'm like, yes, this is amazing.
738
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:02,640
Oh, this sucks.
739
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:03,640
Yes, this is amazing.
740
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:04,640
Oh, this sucks.
741
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,080
Like I'm in the excited phase.
742
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:11,000
I'm in the trough of disillusionment and I'm flipping back and forward in a single day,
743
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,960
depending on if I'm looking at video or I'm using GPT-4 for an interesting use case or
744
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,280
I'm looking at a website builder.
745
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:24,160
I can flip between those states in a single domain like video or if I'm moving between
746
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:25,160
domains.
747
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:31,040
That is the biggest challenge at the moment in AI and using it for all these different
748
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,720
use cases because we're seeing an explosion, right?
749
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:40,000
Text generation, image generation, video generation, audio generation and then layered on top of
750
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:46,080
that what I would call quasi-thinking agents that can do some brainstorming and thinking
751
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,080
for you, right?
752
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:52,040
Like turning a prompt into a web page template.
753
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:56,480
That's a multi-step process that's beyond just getting an output.
754
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,920
We're racing ahead in so many different areas all at the same time.
755
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,600
None of them are in a straight line.
756
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:08,840
I think as a general user, it's very hard to know where you can obtain value with these
757
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:09,920
different systems.
758
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:16,160
I think if you go into using them and then you get a bad first output or it doesn't
759
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:21,200
really generate the thing that you want, you could see why people quite quickly go, AI
760
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:26,400
is fun and it's nice but it's not there yet because it doesn't give me the things I want.
761
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,480
I suspect that a lot of people are actually running into that and then thinking and putting
762
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:36,360
AI to one side for a bit and going, yeah, I can't do the things I need it to do.
763
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,680
Listening to you talk about website builders nicely encapsulates that whiplash for me and
764
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,840
it's definitely something I'm feeling.
765
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:51,560
If I was going to give any tip to a marketer that is looking to maybe deploy AI in their
766
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:57,600
product and announce it, maybe trail it with sneak preview type of thing, one way that
767
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:03,680
you can help people like me and Paul avoid such a whiplash is to just manage expectations.
768
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:08,280
Don't put out videos showcasing stuff that it can't actually do.
769
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,800
That's not what we need because we're just going to be disappointed when we try and use
770
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,320
it and that's not what you want in your users.
771
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:16,320
Right.
772
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,000
We're drifting in on time, Martin.
773
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:22,840
We probably need to swing through these last few stories quite quickly.
774
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,240
Let's briefly touch on this MIT study.
775
00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:30,440
There was a recent study by MIT's Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
776
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,960
with MIT Sloan.
777
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:41,720
Basically this study looked into the potential impact of AI on jobs with a focus on computer
778
00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:43,680
vision.
779
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:49,240
The core finding from the study is that only about 23% of tasks that require vision are
780
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:53,640
currently economically viable to automate using AI.
781
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:59,400
This is probably one of those research reports that is a counterbalance to other search reports
782
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:04,480
that are saying AI is coming for everybody's jobs and in one year nobody will have a job
783
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,440
because AI will do everything.
784
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:14,920
What this study is saying is AI's potential is large, especially on giving computers vision
785
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:21,440
to see things and do things, but the sheer cost of doing that massively outweighs having
786
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,040
humans do it.
787
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,660
I think this study was quite a nice counterbalance to some of those other studies and it further
788
00:56:28,660 --> 00:56:33,800
shines the light on the cost of using AI.
789
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:40,280
There was another story this week about just how much energy consumption is used to run
790
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:41,280
these AI models.
791
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:45,400
I'm going to get this quote wrong, but there was a quote, I think it was in the Wall Street
792
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:51,760
Journal that was something of the equivalent of asking a simple question of chat GPT is
793
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:57,000
like driving a Lamborghini to do pizza deliveries.
794
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:01,120
I think that's probably true as well.
795
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,760
You see Sam Altman talk a lot about the next revolution we're going to require is going
796
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:10,520
to be energy generation because the energy that we're going to need to run all of these
797
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:18,620
server farms and all of these graphics processing units or these emerging chip architectures
798
00:57:18,620 --> 00:57:23,880
to drive large language models, it's all going to take a lot of energy, a lot of development
799
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:25,800
of other technologies.
800
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:32,880
So, as folks, as humans, we've got a little bit more time maybe before AI comes and takes
801
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,280
on our jobs than we thought.
802
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:39,520
Yeah, that's an interesting point from Sam Altman, particularly as he has his fingers
803
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:46,000
in the energy pie, doesn't he, with Helion, the nuclear energy startup.
804
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:52,280
That's no doubt going to be powering those server farms and the rest of us for years
805
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:53,280
to come.
806
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:58,480
Yeah, if you look inside baseball on this one, the fact that Sam Altman, you see these
807
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:03,480
different things emerge where he's involved in companies designing new chips, right, because
808
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,960
he's clearly going to see how many chips the world's going to need if everything's powered
809
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:07,960
by AI.
810
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,960
He's looking at energy companies because he's like, I know how much energy is going to be
811
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,520
required to run those chips.
812
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:19,920
If you're inside the system on this, you can probably make some pretty healthy bets on
813
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:27,040
where the economic drivers are going to be that enable this AI revolution.
814
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,160
So it doesn't surprise me.
815
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,680
In fact, it's probably worth watching what a lot of these people are investing their
816
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:38,120
time and their money in outside of AI because they probably know things that we all don't.
817
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,720
Not that I'm qualified in any way to give investment advice, and I'm not, so please
818
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:46,040
don't take my advice, but I just think it's interesting.
819
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:50,560
Let's talk mobile phones, Martin, because we've been talking about one of the cool
820
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:54,320
things that we probably will see over time is that small models can be run natively on
821
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,480
a phone without having to go up to the internet and servers, which obviously has a range of
822
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,520
benefits that we've talked about.
823
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:07,600
But Samsung Galaxy S24 has been announced and released over the last week or so, and
824
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:14,320
they're, to my knowledge, the first big phone manufacturer to lean into AI in a big way.
825
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:20,200
So what do we have that the S24 is going to be bringing to the market?
826
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:25,160
It's really an AI forward mobile device.
827
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:30,240
They've really leaned into the messaging and basically the chipsets and the technology
828
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:35,080
independent allows there to be a lot of AI on device.
829
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:43,520
So they talk about live translate and an interpreter offering real-time voice and text translations,
830
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,320
which on the demo looked very cool.
831
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:50,000
They've got the Pro Visual Engine.
832
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:58,320
So this is a comprehensive suite of AI powered tools for image capturing and editing.
833
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:06,580
So things like enhanced night photography, high quality video editing and photography
834
01:00:06,580 --> 01:00:10,020
manipulation on device.
835
01:00:10,020 --> 01:00:14,640
We've got this intuitive search with circle to search.
836
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:23,320
So this is a new gesture driven feature, which allows Google to search by simply drawing
837
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,440
a circle and highlighting something on the screen.
838
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:30,800
So it will do a kind of Google image search or something similar with that, which is a
839
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,560
great new input.
840
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:37,240
I always like these new interfaces where you get a new way of interacting with tech.
841
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:38,960
I'm like, that's pretty cool.
842
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,160
That one is cool.
843
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:48,200
Because if you think about, for marketers, we talk about how if we speak to computers
844
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:53,280
most of the time, instead of typing and reading stuff, I'm not necessarily saying it's all
845
01:00:53,280 --> 01:01:00,720
or nothing on that, but as user behavior changes there, it just puts more pressure on search
846
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,520
engine optimization as a strategy.
847
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:07,880
So many things we've talked about on the podcast in terms of Google's generative search experience
848
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,600
and it's showing more and more answers in the search pane and not driving more traffic
849
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:12,680
to your website.
850
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:17,680
Then we've got people using what we expect is imminent in terms of smarter assistance
851
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:19,240
that we can ask questions of that.
852
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,280
Again, we're not looking at a search results page.
853
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,660
We're not clicking through to other websites.
854
01:01:23,660 --> 01:01:29,440
Now we've got circle things in images that you think are cool and then Google will search
855
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,440
for content around that.
856
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:37,160
The potential complexity and challenges ahead for SEO professionals over the next two or
857
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:44,120
three years, I don't think should be underestimated as people's engagement mechanisms with computers
858
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:49,960
and phones evolves to be drawing circles and speaking to agents.
859
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:55,560
Yeah, SEO is, I'm really fascinated to see how quickly that world changes.
860
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,040
And it could still be slow, I don't know, right?
861
01:01:58,040 --> 01:01:59,720
But that fascinates me.
862
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:09,200
Yeah, just on the idea of it being one of the first from an AI on device manufacturers,
863
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:17,520
the Google Pixel 8 and the Pixel 8 Pro, they have a lot of AI baked into them as well.
864
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,040
I don't think as much as this particular device.
865
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:26,480
OnePlus, which is the manufacturer of device that I use, they just announced their OnePlus
866
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:35,480
12 device this week and Qualcomm were there at the keynote talking about the on device
867
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,440
AI capabilities of that phone.
868
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:44,640
Again, don't think it quite matches that of the Galaxy S24 series, but we're seeing more
869
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,440
and more of this coming on device.
870
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:53,280
So we're probably going to see most flagship devices launched over the next year being
871
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:59,680
capable of running, I think, 10 billion parameter models on device.
872
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,280
Yeah, that's interesting.
873
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,800
And ultimately, we don't want to give them wrong impression here on the podcast.
874
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:09,480
AI has been underpinning a number of things in phones for years, right?
875
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:14,120
If you use Google Photos and it's got smart tagging capabilities and you can type in the
876
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:18,200
word dog into your search bar and it will go find all your pictures with dogs in.
877
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:25,280
So it's less that phones have got AI now, I think phones always had AI or have had forms
878
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,080
of AI for many years.
879
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:33,680
I think what's interesting here is models on device and everybody getting on the AI hype
880
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:40,080
train and making AI a differentiator for their platform, which will very soon not be a differentiator
881
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:41,080
probably.
882
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,040
I think one of the things I thought was cool here, and I don't know how it will play out,
883
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:50,360
is some of these onboard, assuming they're onboard, transcription and translation services.
884
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:55,040
Because one of my use cases back in the day for Otter, which is a transcription, one of
885
01:03:55,040 --> 01:04:00,680
the first transcription services, was pre pandemic having my phone, putting it on the
886
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:05,280
table for a meeting and then having Otter transcribe it for me.
887
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:10,720
But if a lot of that stuff ends up just onboard my phone as it is, am I going to stop using
888
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:18,600
certain platforms like Otter for creating transcriptions of calls, for example.
889
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:24,120
And I think that transcription eMarkets in extreme dynamic flux, right, because it's
890
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:29,240
being baked into Teams and Zoom and Google.
891
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:34,240
I think if I was CEO of Otter and similar tools, I'd be a bit worried honestly, because
892
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,400
it's just being baked into everything.
893
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:37,400
Yeah.
894
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,320
So I use a tool called Laxis.
895
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:43,000
We've had Eric from Laxis on the podcast recently.
896
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:49,000
I use this in Google Meet all the time and Google Meet has recently launched its own
897
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,320
transcription tool that you can have turned on.
898
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:56,120
And if you join a meeting where it's turned on, it tells everybody that it's being transcribed.
899
01:04:56,120 --> 01:05:01,360
I still use Laxis over, even though I'm in the Google workspace ecosystem, I still use
900
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:02,560
Laxis.
901
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:07,160
And the reason for that is Laxis can join calls in other services.
902
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:12,240
So by having it connected to my calendar, if it's my Google Meet, it just transcribes
903
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:13,240
it in the background.
904
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:18,840
But if I get invited to a Teams call for a client or something like that, I still get
905
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:22,160
my own transcription because Laxis joins that call.
906
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:27,000
So the idea of it being cross-platform is really critical for me.
907
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:28,000
Interesting.
908
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,360
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.
909
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:35,400
Right, two more stories listeners and then we'll let you to go about your day.
910
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:42,200
The first one very quickly is an interesting story where AI was being used for political
911
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:43,200
misinformation.
912
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:44,200
So you've probably seen this in the news.
913
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:50,200
It's been fairly high profile, but basically a robo-caller using a fake AI generated voice
914
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:56,700
of President Joe Biden urging Democrats to stay home and not participate in primary elections.
915
01:05:56,700 --> 01:06:01,680
And we talked about this a bit on the podcast and we talked about 11 Labs today.
916
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:10,200
The ability of AI to clone and mimic people's voices and with tools like HeyGen, even video,
917
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:13,800
we're drifting ever closer to that world where you can't trust what you see.
918
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,240
You can't trust a mid-journey image.
919
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:16,740
You can't trust a voice.
920
01:06:16,740 --> 01:06:18,240
You can't trust a video.
921
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:23,440
I know people who are already talking about having like safe words or stories that they
922
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:28,880
can share with each other to prove that it's actually them that's calling, right?
923
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:33,480
Like your grandmother rings you to say that she's got herself in some trouble and she
924
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:38,280
needs you to send some money and it sounds exactly like her, but actually it's synthetic
925
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,640
voice for example.
926
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:46,000
And this is the first sort of mainstream media example of it being used to influence pretty
927
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,960
major processes like the US election cycle.
928
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:56,060
So we won't go into too much detail on this, but I think as marketers and communications
929
01:06:56,060 --> 01:07:02,160
professionals we will need to work hard to set the standard to build trust in content
930
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:08,600
that's supported with AI tools because the amount of mistrust that's going to get generated
931
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,680
by bad actors is going to be large enough.
932
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:16,820
So labeling things as being generated by AI or supported with AI I think is going to become
933
01:07:16,820 --> 01:07:22,560
more and more important as the tools' abilities to pull the wool over our eyes only increase.
934
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:26,280
And so it's probably something that we all as humans need to be aware of in terms of
935
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:30,880
fact checking and really being sure that we can trust our sources, but as marketers maybe
936
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:36,540
a bit of extra requirements upon us to do the right thing in these areas.
937
01:07:36,540 --> 01:07:41,880
As we see more and more examples of it, and today there was the example of Taylor Swift
938
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:48,920
with some deep fake pornography shared widely on Twitter and she's come out and said this
939
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,920
is terrible and it's got lots of headlines.
940
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:55,880
As we see more and more examples of this, I think people are going to get more and more
941
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:57,000
aware of it.
942
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:03,000
When it's high profile cases like Joe Biden, like Taylor Swift who let's be honest is the
943
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:11,160
biggest celebrity in music right now, people are going to get smarter and more discerning.
944
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:17,080
I like to think, I have trust in humanity where people will just take a second and say,
945
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:20,360
hold on, is this real?
946
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:23,560
I think you need to be worried Martin because for me you're the biggest celebrity in the
947
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:29,760
world of AI and marketing and so having someone clone your voice from this raw source podcast
948
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:31,840
here I think is a major risk for you.
949
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:36,200
Yeah and there's enough video material out there that they might turn it into some deep
950
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:41,000
fake porn as well so strap in everyone.
951
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:48,320
I'm glad you didn't mispronounce your words there but yes, usually most podcast hosts
952
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:51,640
would edit this bit out but we're not going to do that.
953
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,520
Let's move on to our last story Martin.
954
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,240
Let's go with this Microsoft Copilot.
955
01:08:56,240 --> 01:09:01,440
We talked a bit about ChatGPT for Teams and how finally small businesses can tap into
956
01:09:01,440 --> 01:09:05,000
the commercial power of ChatGPT without having to worry about the information they put into
957
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:06,360
ChatGPT.
958
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:09,960
Hot off the heels, pretty much within a day or two.
959
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:10,960
Microsoft Copilot.
960
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:12,720
What happened here?
961
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:20,080
They have released Microsoft Copilot to everybody so it was previously restricted to organizations
962
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:24,600
that had, was it 300 seats I think you needed to buy.
963
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:30,200
Whereas now they're saying organizations of any size can sign up maybe a minimum of two
964
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:33,580
seats for the business version, I'm not entirely sure.
965
01:09:33,580 --> 01:09:39,960
But even the home and family edition of Microsoft 365 has a Copilot upgrade as well which means
966
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:44,880
that you now have access to Copilot Chat which was previously Bing Chat.
967
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:52,760
You have Copilot in Outlook which does summarization of emails as well as drafting replies for
968
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:53,760
you.
969
01:09:53,760 --> 01:10:00,800
Copilot for PowerPoint which is giving you a starting point if you just write a bit of
970
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:05,400
a prompt it will create the PowerPoint deck for you.
971
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:11,480
And some really cool demos of that actually and it does a pretty good job, a kind of B
972
01:10:11,480 --> 01:10:14,200
plus level performance.
973
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:22,320
I'm not going to knock it like I did when we reviewed the Google Duets, Google Slides
974
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,480
version.
975
01:10:24,480 --> 01:10:28,080
It seems to do a good job when you provide it with like a Word document.
976
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,440
So like say you've got a report that you've written and you need to turn it into a presentation
977
01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:34,840
it seems to do quite a good job of doing that conversion.
978
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:38,600
So I think that's going to save quite a lot of people time actually to get that starter
979
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:44,280
for 10 in terms of getting it all the material put into a PowerPoint style laid out and all
980
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:45,280
that stuff.
981
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:50,300
They've also got Copilot in Word which is pretty much bringing content generation into
982
01:10:50,300 --> 01:10:56,200
Microsoft Word and Copilot in Excel which at the moment is quite limited and not really
983
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:58,200
worth talking about.
984
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:04,760
It's the area that I have the most hope for because I think when that gets good we'll
985
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:14,880
start to see some very exciting data analysis functionalities put into the hands of everybody.
986
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:21,040
Pricing of this is $20 per month per user and is available now.
987
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,080
Yeah, it's a fascinating one.
988
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:28,040
I reflect back on us getting super excited about the Microsoft Copilot like launch video
989
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,880
which was about last March, April time.
990
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:37,840
So it's taken the best part of a year for this to be in the hands of everyone which
991
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:43,360
I think relatively speaking for what they've had to build and deploy and test it through
992
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:49,160
the larger organizations, the enterprises that have had access is probably fair game
993
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:54,360
but it's not quite as powerful as the demo made it look and we still don't have the
994
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:55,360
Excel part.
995
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:59,260
So it comes back to an earlier part of our conversation, Martin, in terms of if you see
996
01:11:59,260 --> 01:12:05,600
something cool in a research paper or a demo, how long until the power of that is in your
997
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:06,600
hands?
998
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:12,280
Probably 6 to 12 months, probably closer to 12 and reduce your expectations on that tool
999
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,600
by 25 to 50% based on what you saw in the demo.
1000
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:20,040
Seems to be a rule of thumb in terms of the commercial application of a lot of these AI
1001
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:22,640
based tools, especially the generative ones.
1002
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,120
Right, I think we'll call it there.
1003
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:26,120
Thank you for sticking with us folks.
1004
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:27,920
There was a lot to cover this week.
1005
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,920
Thank you to you, Martin, as always for your time and insights.
1006
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:31,920
Much appreciated.
1007
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:39,800
Well, thank you and I hope you can just have a moment to sit and think about what Jürgen
1008
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,360
Klopp has done for Liverpool and be thankful that it happened.
1009
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:47,840
You know, I managed to forget that over the course of the last hour and now you've just
1010
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:49,600
brought it all back for me.
1011
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,120
Sorry about that.
1012
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:57,000
It's always 5pm somewhere so it's probably time for a beer and a tear.
1013
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:01,000
But yes, that's now going to take up the focus for me for the rest of the day.
1014
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:02,880
I'm sure I've got nothing better to do.
1015
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:03,880
Yes I do.
1016
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:05,440
Right, listeners, thank you for your time.
1017
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:08,920
We'll look forward to giving you the news in our next episode.
1018
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:27,920
Until then, bye everyone.
