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Well, here we are. Is it the darkest coldest night of the year? It definitely feels that way. It might be a day off, but, uh, yeah, a day off from the solstice due to a toddler barf day. Okay. Well, Yeah. I haven't had to reschedule here. We are recording in the evening. Unusual for us. Yeah. We've created like a nice little nighttime den. It was kind of den, like there's like. Low lighting, fuzzy blankets T. We're in the basement. It's cozy. Yeah. Do you, have you always been intentional about creating a space and ambience? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Tell me more about that. Oh my God, I can walk into a room and if the light bulbs are wrong, it like. It drives me crazy. Ambient lighting is everything like at my parents' house, they use these really bright light bulbs. They are like, I call them institutional. Like light. It's like kind of bluey white. Light. It's not warm yellow, like glow of a fire. It is like stark and like, It doesn't seem to bother them. They're just eating dinner under like my parents are the same way and they want all the lights on all the time. Right. Um, but lighting is really important to me too. Like I know in my nervous system, it like lands in a different way that I can feel slightly more settled, like slightly more in my skin, if not only the lighting is right, but like the smells are just right. And the temperature is just right. Um, that feels good for me. The sounds are right. The clothing is right. I know. Like I honestly feel I'm going through this process of UN masking. Um, I think I have been in performance mode my entire life. So a piece of that is wearing clothing that is too tight and small and restrictive. Another piece is, um, I don't know. I think like working in an office like leads to this a lot where you are agreeable or you are, you're working in a room with a lot of other people, but just as I'm in year, whatever of working from home. The unmasking continues. And I find that like, I am able to prioritize my comfort and safety. On the daily. And. It's become my new baseline. And yeah, I'm not willing to put up with discomfort. What if though you were around other people, would it translate in the same way that I like same level of comfort? Um, yeah, that's a good question. I think through this process, I am just, I am more comfortable with myself, so. I'm more comfortable showing up. I mean, I've been going to these pretty amazing physio yoga classes. Amazing. Yeah. Um, What is a physio yoga class. Right. Well, I mean, it's covered by your physio-therapy benefits. If you have those. And it's, uh, this one-on-one yoga session for an hour where them, this physiotherapist gets to. Sort of assess your body and your holding patterns in real time while you do a yoga class. And it's really cool. Um, But yeah, she was observing just like, yeah. Held patterns in my body. And like, where are you? Hold tension. And like, where are you? Over condensate or like over. Hyper extend or overextend. And it's just, it's just a reminder of how, yeah, I just. I find my body being in this performance mode all the time. Which means it doesn't feel safe. Yeah, like you're holding it in a way that seems. What like on alert? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's so fascinating, like, and I feel like it. I think this is part of why I like yoga. And I like being aware of my body, especially as when I trained in yoga and learned more about anatomy and physiology, because I haven't had any of that training in any other areas of my life, but I find it a metaphor for how. For so many things in our life where we have these holding patterns in our body, whatever that happens to be for you. And it's so much effort to correct it. Like in the moment, it, it requires constant present moment awareness to like lengthen the spine, drop the shoulders, open the chest. For example, a lot of us kind of have that pattern of curling inwards. Um, but it's actually so taxing on our body to not do it. So if you just stay in that hole, that pattern that's familiar. It's easier moment to moment because you don't have to think about it. You don't have to stretch certain muscles and strengthen other ones. It's just all your muscles, all of your body. Accommodates that. But it actually is very taxing on the body because it's not like the way the physiology is supposed to be. It's not the way the human design is. And so it takes present moment awareness to correct it. But over time and of being conscious of that. You'll hold your body in a way that's more natural and it'll cause more comfort, less pain, less discomfort in your body. Does that make sense? Yeah. No. Yeah. And so the metaphor for me is like, there's so many ways that. We move through the world in patterns that we've learned from childhood, from life experiences and to consciously change those things takes conscious constant effort. Like, oh, okay. There's that same thought pattern or there's that. Same belief about other people or, oh, there's that like same fatphobia or whatever showing up for you. It takes work to unwind it. Every day. Constantly throughout a day. But over time, it becomes more natural to not have that. Right. And over time it feels good. It feels good. And you kind of forget what the old pattern was or when you're there, you realize that that's not like your, your new resting state. Yeah, but sometimes it just feels easier to not do anything about it. Just to, just to stay in the slumped body position or to stay in the old. Ingrained thought patterns, um, and to grow and change takes effort, but in the long run, it's actually easier on the whole system. This is my theory. I would say that's true. And like, I think often we want. Miraculous results. Right away, or we want just to like immediate immediately. Um, yeah. Have this change and have it stick. Yeah, exactly. But it's really incremental, incremental, and maybe always going to be underlying to some degree. Right. You're never going to, yeah. Like my body's always going to want to go back to that slumpy position, especially because I work on a computer and like, yeah. Our whole world is set up of like being on a screen. And so like, I'll always have to be like lengthen the spine, drop the shoulders, lift the chest. Um, but it's becomes easier. The more, I bring it top of mind. Yeah. So that's somatic. We talk about the body. We talk about. Um, how our bodies show up and how they flex and move in a. Roughly month long cycle. So what's happening for you? What's happening in your body? Experience right now. Aye. Um, Um, I would be in my follicular phase, so I am. I've finished menstruation. I am approaching ovulation. So I'm in this window of this in-between state. And, um, Yeah. I feel like I'm coming out of a bit of a fog. I think. Yeah. Menstruation took a lot out of me or the lead up to it. It took a lot out of me this month. And so finally, Um, like we talked about physio and patterns and stuff like that. Like I had sort of this physio, yoga, I had brought home with me and I was feeling really good about it. And. Just adding little movements into my day and then all motivation, just sort of left. My like my life for a couple of weeks. It was probably like a 10 day to two week period where it just like. I just was, yeah. Stressed at work, but also not feeling well. And, um, yeah, it took, it took a lot out of my system and it's, I find that that happens. Right. And I. Um, Yeah, I just see. I see it as a pattern. And I'm just, I think before I would get really upset with myself that I wasn't operating with the same amount of like effort or intention all month long. Um, but it's funny like today, And like, I feel like I'm getting out of a bit of a, yeah. This fog where I'm like, I got out of bed and I. Um, went and visited my neighbor and went and walked to an appointment and was out in the brisk cold. And I just felt alive and good. And I'm like, okay. I went to a Pilates class and. I just feel like I'm building in more like movement. And things that feel good and, um, Yeah. And disrespecting that. That's not my baseline every single day. Yeah. And it was pretty foggy though. Premenstrually and menstrually for you this month. Well, like I had a day and like, this is, this is something I'm unpacking on a journey of yeah. Um, having pre-menstrual depressive disorder and. Um, using medication to manage it and still, it's still not quite sure if I'm on the exact right dose because yeah, I am noticing there are a couple of days in the month, like for sure, to where I am just barely functioning. You know, and I do plan to follow up with my doctor soon. Because I think it's an option too. Like increase your dose of an SSRI on those days. So like to double up on a, just for a few days, When, you know that. Um, when you can sense those sort of lows coming. So, but it's funny. Cause I feel like I had that conversation and I can't remember. And like, that's why I'm like, it's just, depression is a weird thing, right? You get information, you can't remember it. And. Uh, everything is an effort when you're struggling with your mental health, with like everything takes so much energy. Yeah. And I mean, there are some really good. Um, flowy, um, High energy or just even, yeah. Pleasant days and stretches, but yeah, there's still some lows and I'm not going to pretend that they're not there. Um, But, yeah, so yeah, definitely had a. Uh, pretty low day in particular. Yeah. I mean, you, we know that you're using Western medication to support yourself. What else do you feel like you need or what else is supportive for you during those times? I think. Having permission just to like, not be productive and then participating in society. Yeah, like that would be helpful. I think. I don't having that understanding whether it's a workplace or my spouse, or just like people understanding, like I not. Able to give the same today. You know, And I feel like there's just this disconnect. I even noticed in my own home where it's like, Like what's wrong. Like, why can't you just get out of bed or like there's. Just sort of a misunderstanding and it just, it kind of just like pushes me into a. Deeper into a hole where I can't really get out of it. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like there is just such a lack of understanding. I feel like even the fact that we talk about this in this podcast, I don't know that people really care for us to say ministration or to talk about it because the way we live in our society, where it's just like, just be the same, just. Monday to Friday. Week after week, month after month be the same. And I think it's so hard to understand unless you've experienced it in your body. And this world that is set up for men just doesn't have any space for that. And I think all of us could benefit. From rusting when we menstruate. And especially those who suffer with PMDD. Um, but we just don't get there. And it's so interesting to me because I've had curiosity lately about like what happens. In the nervous system throughout a cycle, you know? As hormones are fluctuating and moving and yeah. We're not trained about that. There's no education provided in my training and somatic experiencing. And surely. Something happens. Something's happening in the nervous system. As hormones are like spiking and plummeting. And when you're having an experience like you have in PMDD, where you just feel shut down, disconnected. Unable to engage in the world. Like that seems like a dorsal vagal engagement of some sort, some sort of freeze Experience where you're shutting down your body's perceiving threat and danger. And I know that estrogen drops at that time as well. So like, is there a correlation for people who have PMDD, like does their estrogen drop more or. Or they just, the kind of people that. Need more estrogen without it, it feels dark and isolating. But so much in health. And from what I understand, a lot of the research that's done is still done on men's bodies. And we don't have the information for women's bodies. And all this like biohacking world. It's all based on men's bodies. Largely the research is like, Not made for us. Not specific for us. And when you say that sort of, yeah. That freeze response. That dorsal vagal. Yeah. Fear response. Like that is how I felt on the bad day I was having where I'm like, I, I couldn't get out of bed. Like I just somehow, like I. Something just sort of set me off and I'm like, I just was. I couldn't compute at a S. Blank staring at the ceiling. Can't move. Um, And someone telling you to like, get up, move, like, just get on with the day. Like, let's try something. Like that's not helpful. Right. Yeah. Um, So it truly is. Yeah. This sort of freeze state that I think. Also as in a very common. Commonly understood or. Identify. Um, Response that we can have. Yeah, exactly. I'm just holding curiosity around that. And. I'll be seeking out more information, also open to receiving any information about. That exists. Totally. Yeah, because I can't identify with that. I really can't like, not just premenstrually or menstrually, but just in my life. I've I've not experienced that. Not being able to get out of bed. Wanting to close the blinds. I just, I haven't had that experience. I've had times where I want to isolate and be alone, but I think it's driven more from anxiety. Um, So I can't, I can't relate. Yeah. To that truly, it sounds so, so difficult, but even still, like, I just am finishing. I'm just like on day four, maybe I'm just finishing my period. And I would have loved to have arrested day 1, 2, 3, for sure. Like today it feels like the first day I should have been working. And. My cycle isn't. Super predictable. Right. And I schedule people in, in my work. And so I w I have the mobility and the freedom. To not work when I'm menstruating, but I haven't figured out how to work that in. When we're all working on. Calendars Monday to Friday. Kind of schedules. But I would have loved rest, even though I didn't feel completely shut down. Overwhelmed. Disconnected. I felt overwhelmed. By having to go to work and I felt tired and I had to override. Um, just to do. What I need to do. Based on the way our society is set up. What do you, what do you do to override? What is overriding look like for you? Um, I have this like bubbly personality. Like, if a client comes, I'm not going to be like, Yeah. So tired. And then straight. I mean, sometimes they will acknowledge it because of the work that I do. And I largely work with women. But it'll definitely have like a veil of chipper happiness. And. It just feels like effort. So I'll, I'll do what I always do. It's nothing like above and beyond or different. But it just feels so fuzzy. Right? My mind when I'm like, Hey, let's, let's do this coming up there. Like, let's think something through. It's just like, whoa, this is hard, right? This is hard. So that's yeah, I mean, I just carry on with my day. And I don't try to take anyone down with me. Yeah. But I really do want to be with other people. I just want to be with them quietly. Fair. Yes. Do you have anything in your life that you're doing that like, Um, It feels like you. I have to override and do it. Okay, I'm asking this question because I actually just want to say what I, okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Wrapping presence. Oh, yes. Like we don't, we're not Christmas time, Christmas time. We haven't gotten crazy with it. And I've tried to be intentional where I want my three-year-old to like participate in giving gifts and get excited about giving gifts and not just receiving a dump of presence. So. Been intentional about. Yeah. Having her select things for a few people in our life and. Oh, my God trying to wrap a present with a three-year-old is like a fucking nightmare. It's a really good practice and just like self-control and patience. Um, what was her go-to? Is she like obsessed with the tape or crinkling? Paper. Like stretching out long bits of tape. Asking to use the scissor. Juliet. Drained my dog, my three-year-old drained a tape thing and I was. It's Chrysalis like. Stop it, but then she was just like loving it. So I know. I know, I know it's like, this is a me problem for sure. But, yeah, it's like, it's one of those things where like I enjoyed picking out the gifts we got, but like wrapping, it just felt like it feels like such a chore. And I can't think of. Anything that would help me, like want to enjoy it. Do you feel that way about anything? Well, yeah, I was telling you before we recorded that. Um, I was just. Feeling a little tired tonight and, um, wanted to get up the door to be here and. And my daughter wanted to build a puzzle. I was like, yeah. Let's build this out. And, uh, I'm pretty patient. And I didn't feel patient. And she was just like, Totally missing, like how to put the piece together. It was very obvious to me and I felt annoyed and I was like, Oh, Kara, like. I didn't do or say anything. I like felt supportive, but I felt annoyed. And I found that interesting. So like, There I did override my annoyance. And I think I should have. Okay. That's appropriate. Yeah. Like, what are you gonna, like if you're not overwriting, then you're going to be like acting on it. Right. And they're just like figuring out how to wrap presents or. I put a puzzle together. Cause what are you thinking where you curious, like, should I not override that? Um, Or it's like, it just feels like it's something that has to be done and I don't want to do it. I don't know how to. Ask for help to do it, or like, it might be easy to have someone do it with me. Yeah. I feel like if you're really frustrated, like to take a break, whether somebody can help you out or you can step out of the room. But like, I think that, um, When kids are annoying, which is often they're also amazing and lovely, but they also can be annoying. Um, I think when. A parent or caregiver, correct them. In like a harsh way. It's often because the child is dysregulated. And then that disregulates the parent. And the only way the parent or the caregiver knows how to regulate themselves is to stop the behavior. Yeah. Where I really strive to be like she's dysregulated. I'm sensing that I'm becoming dysregulated. This is annoying me. And I'm the one that has the capacity within my adult nervous system. To find a way to regulate without making her regulate. And it's not the kids actually regulate, but that's what we try to do is like you stop the behavior so I can regulate. Let's create shame. Yes. Exactly. And so it's like, you need to stay calm. You need to correct the behavior. You need to maybe correct it again. You need to maybe distract. But this old school paradigm where. Kids go get thrown in their bedroom. Or alone, which is like, Not healthy for humans being alone is like certain death when you're like a tribe person. Um, that's my belief. And I don't like doing that. Like sometimes a kid needs a time away, time break, but they don't necessarily have to be isolated or, um, but rather that, or punishing them, hitting them, yelling at them. Um, we're not actually supporting their nervous system to regulate. We're just like forcing them to override so that we can feel regulated. Yeah. How many times did that happen to you as a child? All the time. Oh all the time. Same, same, same. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, you're like, I'm, reparenting myself. It's so triggering. It's so triggering and sometimes they don't even know why it's triggering. And I just feel like, ah, this is, this is stuff I was dealing with as a two and a three-year-old that like, nobody was sitting with me during one of these like crazy temper tantrums that are insane. Like. I had a temper tantrum as a little person. I would've gotten smacked. For sure. And sent to my room. Right. Yeah. Oh, I know I had this flashback rug. I was getting very frustrated, like trying to wrap this present with my three-year-old. And she said. My own health own health and helps you so excited. And she's like stepping on the paper and like, this is like the big present. This is the nice president. This is like going to the mother-in-law it's like the present. And the paper's getting crinkled and like we've run out of paper. She's like stretching the tape out. She. Just like taping it to the thing and then ripping it off. And then. Reading the paper. Yeah. And I'm just like, no. Just let me do it. I just want I'm like, just like I'm freaking out. I'm like, I remember wanting to help my mom in the kitchen all the time. Like, oh, and I'll. Cook. It seems so fun. Like on a crack and egg, or I want to do this and being told, no, like just let me do it. Go away. You're a new sense. Your don't belong here. I don't need you. And, um, Yeah, that's really painful. And I. Yeah, it's painful. To be on the receiving end of that. Exactly. And it's so interesting that you're able to ha. I remember that because it doesn't seem like that painful. It's like, go play with your toys. Like, no, I'm good here. But like, they feel that they experience that. And plus if you gave your mother-in-law like this disaster of a gift and be like, Hazel helped me, she would love it. That's the gift. That's the gift. I know. Yeah. But it's hard. Yeah. And it can be difficult for sure. Yeah. Reparenting ourselves. Yeah. So annoying. Just wish I got parented the way I wanted it. Okay. So when I came over today, you have these amazing. Paintings drawings. Yeah, what is happening there? Oh my God. I had, I've had an artistic breakthrough. And it feels so damn good. Yeah. What happened? How did you make the time for it? Well, actually, so I actually booked a day off of work. Uh, I take a mental health day off of work. Yes. And this is what it's all about. If you are employed by somebody, you fucking need to take mental health days. I mean, I'm employed by myself. Yeah. And I don't prioritize mental health days as much as I did when I was employed by somebody else. Good reminder. Yeah. Um, so I took a mental health day. And, um, I had a friend come over and we had the intention to do some painting. And, um, I don't know, it was just. It just created this really safe space. And I had time and daylight and like, I don't know, just things I'm not often afforded. And I had set an attention that I want to just start painting and I've dabbled in painting. Here and there, um, Um, But I always find, like, it just feels like there's never enough time to have like, get into it in the way that I want to. And I like watching a clock often or likes. I feel like when you're in that part of the brain, that's responsible for that kind of creativity. It's like not the place for time exists. Right. Well even, yeah. Joining like some of your workshops that you've put on or like yeah. When you, when you're S. Given an opportunity to paint. It's usually in a two hour timeframe. I want like seven hours to do. Wow. Yeah. Um, and then that feels pressure. Like you'll have to do something and wrap it up in two hours. Right. And I don't know what I will get to revisit this. Um, but I had the whole day and. Yeah, it was this with a really expressive and creative friend. And. Um, we both just got into the flow of things and yeah, I don't know. It was just painting and having fun and just like mixing colors and feeling it out. I like had this really like fun. Canvas is just like a bunch of colors on it and let it dry. And that was it. And, um, But then I. I went back to it again and like spent another like few hours with it, like the next day. And I was just struck, like I remember. Um, I haven't spent a ton of time in my life with my grandmother, my paternal grandmother. Um, it's a long story, but she's not super involved in. In my life and never has been, but, um, she was an artist. And there's a handful of times that she's come to stay with us, like in my life. And. Um, I remember her showing me like one of this, these processes she used, um, for, for painting, where you kind of take water colors and you, um, You basically, it's like a mess on the paper and let the, like the paint move around and then you let it dry. And then you. Watch the picture emerge and you'd kind of go over it with ink and you find the picture. This is what yours looks like. Yes. Yes. And so it's, it's really. Like, this is just sort of like the chaotic and expressive way that I just, I love. And I think I've, I've burned this, this part of me, but it's always been there. I've just like a desire to express without a lot of form or function or like, Precision, but just like. I don't know. I didn't know. So it's like this process of like, you first, like paging a bunch of colors and then like I've gone over it with like, It's like black marker. And like this picture emerges and it looks like, like this outer worldly, like different planet. Like river valley or something. But. Um, It doesn't really matter what the outcome is. Like. It's just, it felt so fucking good. So like the first night I like, I, like, I dunno, I stayed up, I spent my entire evening. Working on it and went to bed and was just buzzing. Is that like palpable right now for you? I think so. Yeah. I think I'm accessing a bit of it just knowing like, I was just like buzzing and ringing with like wellbeing or I'm like, oh, my heart is singing. Like, I don't know what that lasts. The buzzing and the wellbeing is like coming from your heart space. Yes. Where do you feel it in your body? Yeah, it would be upper heart neck around my head. Um, Yeah, this like glowing feeling like a warmth. Um, Um, I don't know, almost like after you had like a really good. Orgasm. You're going to say that after glow. Just sort of, uh, yeah, just like, um, like it's kind of euphoric. It's like. Feel good hormones throughout your body? I don't know. This is pleasant, pleasant experience. I would say more than pleasant. Cool. Like I need to do it again. You know, Um, anyways. Yeah. So all that to say. Yeah, so I've done it again, the same sort of process and like all of a sudden I'm finding time to do it. Um, And led pockets of windows where like, I, I didn't think there was time. And just the suddenly you don't need this like huge block of time. You're fine. Way to weave it into your, I just. I want that feeling. And I know that it feels so good that I'm like, I have to do this again. I have to do this again. And like, it's just such a creative breakthrough for me, um, where I'm like, I am an artist. I know I am. And it hasn't felt safe enough to explore that. But. Um, Yeah, I'm finding that safety and I'm. Um, And I'm doing it and it feels like. It's taken me my entire life to express what I need to express in this art. So like, I. Like for a minute, my mind was like, oh my God, can you imagine if you had like, chosen this as your like, career path and like you had been down this path, like for all of these years, And I actually don't think that would've made a difference. Like I think I've lived a lot of life and I have a lot. Inside of me. Needs to come out. In the form of art and it's so exciting to see what that's gonna look like. Yeah. So, I mean, I can't, I can't fully relate. But it sounds like something I've heard an artist say before. Like, whatever you have access, whatever you're experiencing. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I am just so thrilled. Yeah, you look at, and it just seems like you're trying to find words for something you feel. Yeah. Experience. Yeah, it's hard to put towards. Yeah. Oh, gosh, I can't wait to see more. You should. You should post something on our social. Okay. Yeah. I can do that. Yeah. Beautiful. Hmm. Okay. You sent me a clip this week. With our girl, Michelle Obama. I love her. Yeah. Yeah. Have you like, you'd seen them circulating as well. She's done a few interviews lately and there's some viral clips going around and they're very, um, Vulnerable and not something you would expect from the polished sort of, I don't know, Michelle Obama that we knew during the Obama presidency. Yeah. I mean, I think that's partly why I like her though. I don't know that she's always so polished. Like, I feel like she's been willing to talk about. Her struggles or times where, like, I really loved her first book, which I forget. I think it's maybe just called Michelle Obama. Um, Like I'm thinking of one story in particular where she. It's just like so silly, but she, she worked hard again to meet the queen. Okay, which is like, Uh, like a big no-no. Who would fucking know that. And, uh, she got shamed for it, like in the tabloids and stuff. And like, she shared multiple stories like that, where like she fucked up and I'm like, Just decided to rise above and be like, okay, well, I can rather just like hide away and be ashamed or I can just like grow and do better and do more. So. Um, But I do feel like what she shared and not to totally cut you off, which I did. Sorry. No. Um, Yeah, she was super vulnerable. Do you want to talk a little bit about what she was saying? Yeah. And even just her style and her look, I think when I'm thinking Polish, like, I mean, she definitely like looked the part of a first lady before. It's very polished. Outfits, but now, like she is exploring fashion. And I don't know, bringing in black culture into, into her look in a way that. I don't know. I'm guessing was not digestible in the first lady role. And it's really cool to see this expressive fashion side of her. That. Yeah. Apparently the United States wasn't ready for in a first lady. But in this sort of new. Chapter of her life is like, Front and center. But yeah, she was talking about her relationship with Iraq. And marriage in general, like how marriage is hard. Marriage. Isn't easy. That marriage has, um, seasons where it's not fair. And, and that's what drew me, drew me in totally eclipse were like, oh, like I. I think, I remember she said like 10 years, like there's like definitely 10 years where like I hated him. Right. With Michelle and Barack. Like what they like the perfect couple. Yeah. Uh, and that was when they had little kids. I think those are the hardest years. And what she said, that kind of caught my attention was like it wasn't 50, 50, and that's just the way it was in their relationship. And she's like there years. Where it's not 50 50, and that's just the way it is. And that's the way it was for her. So at first I was kinda, it felt validating for me. I was like, Hmm. But then the more I thought about it, I'm like, ah, it's just more of the same of like, you know, when you have little kids, like the woman's just going to have to do more. Well, what was missing from that was like, and then I've been given space to work on my projects and things that are important to me. And I, that was missing from that conversation. Well, it couldn't happen. I mean, and that's like such an extreme example, like. The president of the United States. So like I get it. I'm sure he was not present. Um, But like, is isn't it just kind of a metaphor for all? Right. Yes. That. Nan's careers. Get. But first. I mean. Yeah. Yeah, there's something about it that didn't quite sit right with me. And I don't think it's about Michelle Obama's experience. I think it's our culture and I think it's this general acceptance that women just do more. And that's just the way it is that when women thrive it's in spite of, or despite their husbands, like busy-ness or the fact that they. Are off doing their thing. And like, for us to thrive, we have to do it. Like, despite that we have to rise above. We have to work harder than they have to. And like, I don't feel like there are a lot of stories of. Men supporting their. Wives careers, their spouses, careers, and putting their life on hold and their dreams on hold. For a greater cause because they believe in. And the woman in their life. And I know that this happens. I know that it does, but I don't think it happens enough. And, and especially in the situation, like, I feel like it does happen sometimes in those extremes where it's like one person rises above and one takes care of the home or vice versa, but like, How often is it that. One person staying at home. Like often, both are working, both have a career that like requires ongoing commitment and growth and achievement. And there's a domestic load and there's parenting that needs to be done. And that. If it's not being explicitly talked about. The females are often defaulting. Defaulting. Yeah. Even Michelle. Oh, fucking Bama. Right. So, but like, so what do we do about this? Because it doesn't feel good. Um, Yeah, what do we do? But I think we keep talking about it. I think we like keep coming to our partners with compassionate. And loving conversations, which I usually come at it with. Ragey um, present. Resentment. Um, but to like fix it, if it's, if it's unequal, And continue to try to change the conversation so that. My children. We'll see more. Equality. Because. I think that for both. Parties coming to the table, like you've said it before, like how did I even get into this role? I kind of had internalized. Some of this stuff that my stay at home mom. Um, had done, and my partner's the same. He had a stay at home mom, and I think that they kind of. Unintentionally internalized some things. And I didn't have a stay at home mom, but she did way more of the domestic load. But both my parents worked. Um, so I just feel like, just keep. Keep working at it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think. Sometimes, I think I'm in such a rush. And like this might be our life's work. It might, it might not happen in six months. Like. I don't know, you're you're in a rush to get things, to be more equal to burn it down. Burn it down. Can you give me an example? It burned down my career. Let's start over. Burn it down a burn this mother down. Yeah. All right. That's burn it down. Um, so usually I'll relate it to capitalism and patriarchy. That's just these systems. Aren't. I'm not into these systems. Let's just make some new ones. It's a burn that down, burn it down. That's the mood I'm in. Yeah. But also, I feel like I've achieved this sort of state of state of safety. Where I can happy thinking in this way. I wasn't thinking in this way, when I was starving myself. I wasn't thinking in this way, when I was just like riddled with anxiety. Yeah, I don't know. No. I totally agree. I mean, I think that's like, How some of these things exist, just like. I don't understand exactly how it happens, like how consciously it's there, but I feel like. Somebody somewhere knew that we could distract women. If we made them be obsessed with how they look. And then further to that. Kind of control their weight. And therefore they're hungry or they're thinking about what they're going to eat next, or like what not to eat. All of these things serve to disempower us. And we like drank the Kool-Aid so to speak. And I do feel like I'm waking up. And. Yeah, I had to get my mental health straight. Which took lots of years. Some hard times. But yeah. Now I've got the energy and the capacity to do something about it. Yeah. 'cause like my mom was run ragged. And didn't always parent me the way that I felt I should be parented, as we said at the beginning. Right. And like that was a disempowered woman. That was a woman who. Who suffered in the patriarchy. With her feminine cycles and. Femininity period. Yeah. Okay. And so when I. When I think back to. Like three generations ago. So anything about like, oh, like I want to burn it down. Like it's not moving fast enough for me. I want to burn it down. Um, I think that too, like my grandmother's upbringing. And what that looked like. Um, Um, a lot of poverty, like rural farm life, like no running water. Like life was hard. Like getting food was hard. Like you're cooking things from scratch. You're sewing clothes. You're washing clothes by hand. Like. Um, that was the reality. So you fast forward a few generations and it's like, here I am. Living in a home or working on a little computer. And was a dishwasher. That's doing my dishes and like, w. Washing machine and dryer. And like, I can order groceries to my house and I have art supplies and like, oh look, I found time to like paint. Like I am living in a. Abundant future that my ancestors only dreamed of. And I think sometimes I can be in a victim mindset of like, oh, like I didn't have the right art supplies. Like I should probably do oil paints and like, oh, I need an easel. How much does an easel cost? And they're like, if I cut up and like all the things I don't have, but it's like, I have. I have art supplies at home. Like this idea that. I don't know what it's getting in my way of, like, I don't have enough for like, it's unfair. And like, when you look at how much, like I have like leaped from where my ancestors were, it's actually quite remarkable. A remarkable perspective. Truly. But sometimes I think because the struggles. Are less. It's more obvious. Or. Curious that we feel down or depressed because it's like, look around, like, there's nothing hard happening. Like what's. What's happening. Whoa. Okay. Whereas before it'd be like, I'm actually, this isn't my own thing. Have you ever watched any of Michael Chase stand up? No. Um, he was on SNL or maybe he still is. Um, but that was like one thing, like he's a black man and he was like talking he's. So I love his sense of humor. He weaves in like political issues and like racism, but like, it's funny. And not in like a self-deprecating way. But now he's talking about his own mental health struggles and that like his ancestors, like. It was like, they're like they were out like picking in a cotton field. They didn't look at each other and say like, oh, like, why are you sad? It's like, we fucking knew why you were sad. And we shouldn't talk about it because there was a reason to be sad, but like, It's so complex. It's so complicated. Why are we so fucking sad? But the thing I was thinking about, actually, when you were talking about your ancestors, I recently saw this, this video. It was like, Eight or 10 Scottish women sitting around a picnic deal. Did you see this? This weaving a net or what are they making? I don't know that. Yes, some special sort of Scottish knitted sweater, like, and they're singing and they're, whapping it. And they're passing it and like, It probably would be a horrible task, but when you have 10 people and you're singing a song and whapping it at the same time, like, is that a term lapping? It should be. Um, it just looks so joyous and it's like, as we've worked so hard to like, remove these very real struggles, just to like get through our day to be close, to be warm, to be fed. It's like disconnected us from community. And we're sad and we don't feel safe and we don't feel seen. Yeah. So we just need to make more. Scottish dresses together. Hm. Well, and also, so when you're in that survival mode of generations past, whether it's yeah, you are in slavery or you are. Um, Not pioneer and working and land or, um, Um, yeah, you probably don't have time to examine the systems that you're working within. Or living within and. And so yeah, you remove some of those hardships, but the system still remain right. Ah, yeah, totally. Right. And so. We are still women living in patriarchy. Um, Yeah. I got to burn that shit down, write it down. Okay. Yeah. That's it. That's all. Love you, man. Happy holidays. Nice.
Well, here we are. Is it the darkest coldest night of the year? It definitely feels that way. It might be a day off, but, uh, yeah, a day off from the solstice due to a toddler barf day. Okay. Well, Yeah. I haven't had to reschedule here. We are recording in the evening. Unusual for us. Yeah. We've created like a nice little nighttime den. It was kind of den, like there's like. Low lighting, fuzzy blankets T. We're in the basement. It's cozy. Yeah. Do you, have you always been intentional about creating a space and ambience? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Tell me more about that. Oh my God, I can walk into a room and if the light bulbs are wrong, it like. It drives me crazy. Ambient lighting is everything like at my parents' house, they use these really bright light bulbs. They are like, I call them institutional. Like light. It's like kind of bluey white. Light. It's not warm yellow, like glow of a fire. It is like stark and like, It doesn't seem to bother them. They're just eating dinner under like my parents are the same way and they want all the lights on all the time. Right. Um, but lighting is really important to me too. Like I know in my nervous system, it like lands in a different way that I can feel slightly more settled, like slightly more in my skin, if not only the lighting is right, but like the smells are just right. And the temperature is just right. Um, that feels good for me. The sounds are right. The clothing is right. I know. Like I honestly feel I'm going through this process of UN masking. Um, I think I have been in performance mode my entire life. So a piece of that is wearing clothing that is too tight and small and restrictive. Another piece is, um, I don't know. I think like working in an office like leads to this a lot where you are agreeable or you are, you're working in a room with a lot of other people, but just as I'm in year, whatever of working from home. The unmasking continues. And I find that like, I am able to prioritize my comfort and safety. On the daily. And. It's become my new baseline. And yeah, I'm not willing to put up with discomfort. What if though you were around other people, would it translate in the same way that I like same level of comfort? Um, yeah, that's a good question. I think through this process, I am just, I am more comfortable with myself, so. I'm more comfortable showing up. I mean, I've been going to these pretty amazing physio yoga classes. Amazing. Yeah. Um, What is a physio yoga class. Right. Well, I mean, it's covered by your physio-therapy benefits. If you have those. And it's, uh, this one-on-one yoga session for an hour where them, this physiotherapist gets to. Sort of assess your body and your holding patterns in real time while you do a yoga class. And it's really cool. Um, But yeah, she was observing just like, yeah. Held patterns in my body. And like, where are you? Hold tension. And like, where are you? Over condensate or like over. Hyper extend or overextend. And it's just, it's just a reminder of how, yeah, I just. I find my body being in this performance mode all the time. Which means it doesn't feel safe. Yeah, like you're holding it in a way that seems. What like on alert? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's so fascinating, like, and I feel like it. I think this is part of why I like yoga. And I like being aware of my body, especially as when I trained in yoga and learned more about anatomy and physiology, because I haven't had any of that training in any other areas of my life, but I find it a metaphor for how. For so many things in our life where we have these holding patterns in our body, whatever that happens to be for you. And it's so much effort to correct it. Like in the moment, it, it requires constant present moment awareness to like lengthen the spine, drop the shoulders, open the chest. For example, a lot of us kind of have that pattern of curling inwards. Um, but it's actually so taxing on our body to not do it. So if you just stay in that hole, that pattern that's familiar. It's easier moment to moment because you don't have to think about it. You don't have to stretch certain muscles and strengthen other ones. It's just all your muscles, all of your body. Accommodates that. But it actually is very taxing on the body because it's not like the way the physiology is supposed to be. It's not the way the human design is. And so it takes present moment awareness to correct it. But over time and of being conscious of that. You'll hold your body in a way that's more natural and it'll cause more comfort, less pain, less discomfort in your body. Does that make sense? Yeah. No. Yeah. And so the metaphor for me is like, there's so many ways that. We move through the world in patterns that we've learned from childhood, from life experiences and to consciously change those things takes conscious constant effort. Like, oh, okay. There's that same thought pattern or there's that. Same belief about other people or, oh, there's that like same fatphobia or whatever showing up for you. It takes work to unwind it. Every day. Constantly throughout a day. But over time, it becomes more natural to not have that. Right. And over time it feels good. It feels good. And you kind of forget what the old pattern was or when you're there, you realize that that's not like your, your new resting state. Yeah, but sometimes it just feels easier to not do anything about it. Just to, just to stay in the slumped body position or to stay in the old. Ingrained thought patterns, um, and to grow and change takes effort, but in the long run, it's actually easier on the whole system. This is my theory. I would say that's true. And like, I think often we want. Miraculous results. Right away, or we want just to like immediate immediately. Um, yeah. Have this change and have it stick. Yeah, exactly. But it's really incremental, incremental, and maybe always going to be underlying to some degree. Right. You're never going to, yeah. Like my body's always going to want to go back to that slumpy position, especially because I work on a computer and like, yeah. Our whole world is set up of like being on a screen. And so like, I'll always have to be like lengthen the spine, drop the shoulders, lift the chest. Um, but it's becomes easier. The more, I bring it top of mind. Yeah. So that's somatic. We talk about the body. We talk about. Um, how our bodies show up and how they flex and move in a. Roughly month long cycle. So what's happening for you? What's happening in your body? Experience right now. Aye. Um, Um, I would be in my follicular phase, so I am. I've finished menstruation. I am approaching ovulation. So I'm in this window of this in-between state. And, um, Yeah. I feel like I'm coming out of a bit of a fog. I think. Yeah. Menstruation took a lot out of me or the lead up to it. It took a lot out of me this month. And so finally, Um, like we talked about physio and patterns and stuff like that. Like I had sort of this physio, yoga, I had brought home with me and I was feeling really good about it. And. Just adding little movements into my day and then all motivation, just sort of left. My like my life for a couple of weeks. It was probably like a 10 day to two week period where it just like. I just was, yeah. Stressed at work, but also not feeling well. And, um, yeah, it took, it took a lot out of my system and it's, I find that that happens. Right. And I. Um, Yeah, I just see. I see it as a pattern. And I'm just, I think before I would get really upset with myself that I wasn't operating with the same amount of like effort or intention all month long. Um, but it's funny like today, And like, I feel like I'm getting out of a bit of a, yeah. This fog where I'm like, I got out of bed and I. Um, went and visited my neighbor and went and walked to an appointment and was out in the brisk cold. And I just felt alive and good. And I'm like, okay. I went to a Pilates class and. I just feel like I'm building in more like movement. And things that feel good and, um, Yeah. And disrespecting that. That's not my baseline every single day. Yeah. And it was pretty foggy though. Premenstrually and menstrually for you this month. Well, like I had a day and like, this is, this is something I'm unpacking on a journey of yeah. Um, having pre-menstrual depressive disorder and. Um, using medication to manage it and still, it's still not quite sure if I'm on the exact right dose because yeah, I am noticing there are a couple of days in the month, like for sure, to where I am just barely functioning. You know, and I do plan to follow up with my doctor soon. Because I think it's an option too. Like increase your dose of an SSRI on those days. So like to double up on a, just for a few days, When, you know that. Um, when you can sense those sort of lows coming. So, but it's funny. Cause I feel like I had that conversation and I can't remember. And like, that's why I'm like, it's just, depression is a weird thing, right? You get information, you can't remember it. And. Uh, everything is an effort when you're struggling with your mental health, with like everything takes so much energy. Yeah. And I mean, there are some really good. Um, flowy, um, High energy or just even, yeah. Pleasant days and stretches, but yeah, there's still some lows and I'm not going to pretend that they're not there. Um, But, yeah, so yeah, definitely had a. Uh, pretty low day in particular. Yeah. I mean, you, we know that you're using Western medication to support yourself. What else do you feel like you need or what else is supportive for you during those times? I think. Having permission just to like, not be productive and then participating in society. Yeah, like that would be helpful. I think. I don't having that understanding whether it's a workplace or my spouse, or just like people understanding, like I not. Able to give the same today. You know, And I feel like there's just this disconnect. I even noticed in my own home where it's like, Like what's wrong. Like, why can't you just get out of bed or like there's. Just sort of a misunderstanding and it just, it kind of just like pushes me into a. Deeper into a hole where I can't really get out of it. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like there is just such a lack of understanding. I feel like even the fact that we talk about this in this podcast, I don't know that people really care for us to say ministration or to talk about it because the way we live in our society, where it's just like, just be the same, just. Monday to Friday. Week after week, month after month be the same. And I think it's so hard to understand unless you've experienced it in your body. And this world that is set up for men just doesn't have any space for that. And I think all of us could benefit. From rusting when we menstruate. And especially those who suffer with PMDD. Um, but we just don't get there. And it's so interesting to me because I've had curiosity lately about like what happens. In the nervous system throughout a cycle, you know? As hormones are fluctuating and moving and yeah. We're not trained about that. There's no education provided in my training and somatic experiencing. And surely. Something happens. Something's happening in the nervous system. As hormones are like spiking and plummeting. And when you're having an experience like you have in PMDD, where you just feel shut down, disconnected. Unable to engage in the world. Like that seems like a dorsal vagal engagement of some sort, some sort of freeze Experience where you're shutting down your body's perceiving threat and danger. And I know that estrogen drops at that time as well. So like, is there a correlation for people who have PMDD, like does their estrogen drop more or. Or they just, the kind of people that. Need more estrogen without it, it feels dark and isolating. But so much in health. And from what I understand, a lot of the research that's done is still done on men's bodies. And we don't have the information for women's bodies. And all this like biohacking world. It's all based on men's bodies. Largely the research is like, Not made for us. Not specific for us. And when you say that sort of, yeah. That freeze response. That dorsal vagal. Yeah. Fear response. Like that is how I felt on the bad day I was having where I'm like, I, I couldn't get out of bed. Like I just somehow, like I. Something just sort of set me off and I'm like, I just was. I couldn't compute at a S. Blank staring at the ceiling. Can't move. Um, And someone telling you to like, get up, move, like, just get on with the day. Like, let's try something. Like that's not helpful. Right. Yeah. Um, So it truly is. Yeah. This sort of freeze state that I think. Also as in a very common. Commonly understood or. Identify. Um, Response that we can have. Yeah, exactly. I'm just holding curiosity around that. And. I'll be seeking out more information, also open to receiving any information about. That exists. Totally. Yeah, because I can't identify with that. I really can't like, not just premenstrually or menstrually, but just in my life. I've I've not experienced that. Not being able to get out of bed. Wanting to close the blinds. I just, I haven't had that experience. I've had times where I want to isolate and be alone, but I think it's driven more from anxiety. Um, So I can't, I can't relate. Yeah. To that truly, it sounds so, so difficult, but even still, like, I just am finishing. I'm just like on day four, maybe I'm just finishing my period. And I would have loved to have arrested day 1, 2, 3, for sure. Like today it feels like the first day I should have been working. And. My cycle isn't. Super predictable. Right. And I schedule people in, in my work. And so I w I have the mobility and the freedom. To not work when I'm menstruating, but I haven't figured out how to work that in. When we're all working on. Calendars Monday to Friday. Kind of schedules. But I would have loved rest, even though I didn't feel completely shut down. Overwhelmed. Disconnected. I felt overwhelmed. By having to go to work and I felt tired and I had to override. Um, just to do. What I need to do. Based on the way our society is set up. What do you, what do you do to override? What is overriding look like for you? Um, I have this like bubbly personality. Like, if a client comes, I'm not going to be like, Yeah. So tired. And then straight. I mean, sometimes they will acknowledge it because of the work that I do. And I largely work with women. But it'll definitely have like a veil of chipper happiness. And. It just feels like effort. So I'll, I'll do what I always do. It's nothing like above and beyond or different. But it just feels so fuzzy. Right? My mind when I'm like, Hey, let's, let's do this coming up there. Like, let's think something through. It's just like, whoa, this is hard, right? This is hard. So that's yeah, I mean, I just carry on with my day. And I don't try to take anyone down with me. Yeah. But I really do want to be with other people. I just want to be with them quietly. Fair. Yes. Do you have anything in your life that you're doing that like, Um, It feels like you. I have to override and do it. Okay, I'm asking this question because I actually just want to say what I, okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Wrapping presence. Oh, yes. Like we don't, we're not Christmas time, Christmas time. We haven't gotten crazy with it. And I've tried to be intentional where I want my three-year-old to like participate in giving gifts and get excited about giving gifts and not just receiving a dump of presence. So. Been intentional about. Yeah. Having her select things for a few people in our life and. Oh, my God trying to wrap a present with a three-year-old is like a fucking nightmare. It's a really good practice and just like self-control and patience. Um, what was her go-to? Is she like obsessed with the tape or crinkling? Paper. Like stretching out long bits of tape. Asking to use the scissor. Juliet. Drained my dog, my three-year-old drained a tape thing and I was. It's Chrysalis like. Stop it, but then she was just like loving it. So I know. I know, I know it's like, this is a me problem for sure. But, yeah, it's like, it's one of those things where like I enjoyed picking out the gifts we got, but like wrapping, it just felt like it feels like such a chore. And I can't think of. Anything that would help me, like want to enjoy it. Do you feel that way about anything? Well, yeah, I was telling you before we recorded that. Um, I was just. Feeling a little tired tonight and, um, wanted to get up the door to be here and. And my daughter wanted to build a puzzle. I was like, yeah. Let's build this out. And, uh, I'm pretty patient. And I didn't feel patient. And she was just like, Totally missing, like how to put the piece together. It was very obvious to me and I felt annoyed and I was like, Oh, Kara, like. I didn't do or say anything. I like felt supportive, but I felt annoyed. And I found that interesting. So like, There I did override my annoyance. And I think I should have. Okay. That's appropriate. Yeah. Like, what are you gonna, like if you're not overwriting, then you're going to be like acting on it. Right. And they're just like figuring out how to wrap presents or. I put a puzzle together. Cause what are you thinking where you curious, like, should I not override that? Um, Or it's like, it just feels like it's something that has to be done and I don't want to do it. I don't know how to. Ask for help to do it, or like, it might be easy to have someone do it with me. Yeah. I feel like if you're really frustrated, like to take a break, whether somebody can help you out or you can step out of the room. But like, I think that, um, When kids are annoying, which is often they're also amazing and lovely, but they also can be annoying. Um, I think when. A parent or caregiver, correct them. In like a harsh way. It's often because the child is dysregulated. And then that disregulates the parent. And the only way the parent or the caregiver knows how to regulate themselves is to stop the behavior. Yeah. Where I really strive to be like she's dysregulated. I'm sensing that I'm becoming dysregulated. This is annoying me. And I'm the one that has the capacity within my adult nervous system. To find a way to regulate without making her regulate. And it's not the kids actually regulate, but that's what we try to do is like you stop the behavior so I can regulate. Let's create shame. Yes. Exactly. And so it's like, you need to stay calm. You need to correct the behavior. You need to maybe correct it again. You need to maybe distract. But this old school paradigm where. Kids go get thrown in their bedroom. Or alone, which is like, Not healthy for humans being alone is like certain death when you're like a tribe person. Um, that's my belief. And I don't like doing that. Like sometimes a kid needs a time away, time break, but they don't necessarily have to be isolated or, um, but rather that, or punishing them, hitting them, yelling at them. Um, we're not actually supporting their nervous system to regulate. We're just like forcing them to override so that we can feel regulated. Yeah. How many times did that happen to you as a child? All the time. Oh all the time. Same, same, same. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, you're like, I'm, reparenting myself. It's so triggering. It's so triggering and sometimes they don't even know why it's triggering. And I just feel like, ah, this is, this is stuff I was dealing with as a two and a three-year-old that like, nobody was sitting with me during one of these like crazy temper tantrums that are insane. Like. I had a temper tantrum as a little person. I would've gotten smacked. For sure. And sent to my room. Right. Yeah. Oh, I know I had this flashback rug. I was getting very frustrated, like trying to wrap this present with my three-year-old. And she said. My own health own health and helps you so excited. And she's like stepping on the paper and like, this is like the big present. This is the nice president. This is like going to the mother-in-law it's like the present. And the paper's getting crinkled and like we've run out of paper. She's like stretching the tape out. She. Just like taping it to the thing and then ripping it off. And then. Reading the paper. Yeah. And I'm just like, no. Just let me do it. I just want I'm like, just like I'm freaking out. I'm like, I remember wanting to help my mom in the kitchen all the time. Like, oh, and I'll. Cook. It seems so fun. Like on a crack and egg, or I want to do this and being told, no, like just let me do it. Go away. You're a new sense. Your don't belong here. I don't need you. And, um, Yeah, that's really painful. And I. Yeah, it's painful. To be on the receiving end of that. Exactly. And it's so interesting that you're able to ha. I remember that because it doesn't seem like that painful. It's like, go play with your toys. Like, no, I'm good here. But like, they feel that they experience that. And plus if you gave your mother-in-law like this disaster of a gift and be like, Hazel helped me, she would love it. That's the gift. That's the gift. I know. Yeah. But it's hard. Yeah. And it can be difficult for sure. Yeah. Reparenting ourselves. Yeah. So annoying. Just wish I got parented the way I wanted it. Okay. So when I came over today, you have these amazing. Paintings drawings. Yeah, what is happening there? Oh my God. I had, I've had an artistic breakthrough. And it feels so damn good. Yeah. What happened? How did you make the time for it? Well, actually, so I actually booked a day off of work. Uh, I take a mental health day off of work. Yes. And this is what it's all about. If you are employed by somebody, you fucking need to take mental health days. I mean, I'm employed by myself. Yeah. And I don't prioritize mental health days as much as I did when I was employed by somebody else. Good reminder. Yeah. Um, so I took a mental health day. And, um, I had a friend come over and we had the intention to do some painting. And, um, I don't know, it was just. It just created this really safe space. And I had time and daylight and like, I don't know, just things I'm not often afforded. And I had set an attention that I want to just start painting and I've dabbled in painting. Here and there, um, Um, But I always find, like, it just feels like there's never enough time to have like, get into it in the way that I want to. And I like watching a clock often or likes. I feel like when you're in that part of the brain, that's responsible for that kind of creativity. It's like not the place for time exists. Right. Well even, yeah. Joining like some of your workshops that you've put on or like yeah. When you, when you're S. Given an opportunity to paint. It's usually in a two hour timeframe. I want like seven hours to do. Wow. Yeah. Um, and then that feels pressure. Like you'll have to do something and wrap it up in two hours. Right. And I don't know what I will get to revisit this. Um, but I had the whole day and. Yeah, it was this with a really expressive and creative friend. And. Um, we both just got into the flow of things and yeah, I don't know. It was just painting and having fun and just like mixing colors and feeling it out. I like had this really like fun. Canvas is just like a bunch of colors on it and let it dry. And that was it. And, um, But then I. I went back to it again and like spent another like few hours with it, like the next day. And I was just struck, like I remember. Um, I haven't spent a ton of time in my life with my grandmother, my paternal grandmother. Um, it's a long story, but she's not super involved in. In my life and never has been, but, um, she was an artist. And there's a handful of times that she's come to stay with us, like in my life. And. Um, I remember her showing me like one of this, these processes she used, um, for, for painting, where you kind of take water colors and you, um, You basically, it's like a mess on the paper and let the, like the paint move around and then you let it dry. And then you. Watch the picture emerge and you'd kind of go over it with ink and you find the picture. This is what yours looks like. Yes. Yes. And so it's, it's really. Like, this is just sort of like the chaotic and expressive way that I just, I love. And I think I've, I've burned this, this part of me, but it's always been there. I've just like a desire to express without a lot of form or function or like, Precision, but just like. I don't know. I didn't know. So it's like this process of like, you first, like paging a bunch of colors and then like I've gone over it with like, It's like black marker. And like this picture emerges and it looks like, like this outer worldly, like different planet. Like river valley or something. But. Um, It doesn't really matter what the outcome is. Like. It's just, it felt so fucking good. So like the first night I like, I, like, I dunno, I stayed up, I spent my entire evening. Working on it and went to bed and was just buzzing. Is that like palpable right now for you? I think so. Yeah. I think I'm accessing a bit of it just knowing like, I was just like buzzing and ringing with like wellbeing or I'm like, oh, my heart is singing. Like, I don't know what that lasts. The buzzing and the wellbeing is like coming from your heart space. Yes. Where do you feel it in your body? Yeah, it would be upper heart neck around my head. Um, Yeah, this like glowing feeling like a warmth. Um, Um, I don't know, almost like after you had like a really good. Orgasm. You're going to say that after glow. Just sort of, uh, yeah, just like, um, like it's kind of euphoric. It's like. Feel good hormones throughout your body? I don't know. This is pleasant, pleasant experience. I would say more than pleasant. Cool. Like I need to do it again. You know, Um, anyways. Yeah. So all that to say. Yeah, so I've done it again, the same sort of process and like all of a sudden I'm finding time to do it. Um, And led pockets of windows where like, I, I didn't think there was time. And just the suddenly you don't need this like huge block of time. You're fine. Way to weave it into your, I just. I want that feeling. And I know that it feels so good that I'm like, I have to do this again. I have to do this again. And like, it's just such a creative breakthrough for me, um, where I'm like, I am an artist. I know I am. And it hasn't felt safe enough to explore that. But. Um, Yeah, I'm finding that safety and I'm. Um, And I'm doing it and it feels like. It's taken me my entire life to express what I need to express in this art. So like, I. Like for a minute, my mind was like, oh my God, can you imagine if you had like, chosen this as your like, career path and like you had been down this path, like for all of these years, And I actually don't think that would've made a difference. Like I think I've lived a lot of life and I have a lot. Inside of me. Needs to come out. In the form of art and it's so exciting to see what that's gonna look like. Yeah. So, I mean, I can't, I can't fully relate. But it sounds like something I've heard an artist say before. Like, whatever you have access, whatever you're experiencing. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I am just so thrilled. Yeah, you look at, and it just seems like you're trying to find words for something you feel. Yeah. Experience. Yeah, it's hard to put towards. Yeah. Oh, gosh, I can't wait to see more. You should. You should post something on our social. Okay. Yeah. I can do that. Yeah. Beautiful. Hmm. Okay. You sent me a clip this week. With our girl, Michelle Obama. I love her. Yeah. Yeah. Have you like, you'd seen them circulating as well. She's done a few interviews lately and there's some viral clips going around and they're very, um, Vulnerable and not something you would expect from the polished sort of, I don't know, Michelle Obama that we knew during the Obama presidency. Yeah. I mean, I think that's partly why I like her though. I don't know that she's always so polished. Like, I feel like she's been willing to talk about. Her struggles or times where, like, I really loved her first book, which I forget. I think it's maybe just called Michelle Obama. Um, Like I'm thinking of one story in particular where she. It's just like so silly, but she, she worked hard again to meet the queen. Okay, which is like, Uh, like a big no-no. Who would fucking know that. And, uh, she got shamed for it, like in the tabloids and stuff. And like, she shared multiple stories like that, where like she fucked up and I'm like, Just decided to rise above and be like, okay, well, I can rather just like hide away and be ashamed or I can just like grow and do better and do more. So. Um, But I do feel like what she shared and not to totally cut you off, which I did. Sorry. No. Um, Yeah, she was super vulnerable. Do you want to talk a little bit about what she was saying? Yeah. And even just her style and her look, I think when I'm thinking Polish, like, I mean, she definitely like looked the part of a first lady before. It's very polished. Outfits, but now, like she is exploring fashion. And I don't know, bringing in black culture into, into her look in a way that. I don't know. I'm guessing was not digestible in the first lady role. And it's really cool to see this expressive fashion side of her. That. Yeah. Apparently the United States wasn't ready for in a first lady. But in this sort of new. Chapter of her life is like, Front and center. But yeah, she was talking about her relationship with Iraq. And marriage in general, like how marriage is hard. Marriage. Isn't easy. That marriage has, um, seasons where it's not fair. And, and that's what drew me, drew me in totally eclipse were like, oh, like I. I think, I remember she said like 10 years, like there's like definitely 10 years where like I hated him. Right. With Michelle and Barack. Like what they like the perfect couple. Yeah. Uh, and that was when they had little kids. I think those are the hardest years. And what she said, that kind of caught my attention was like it wasn't 50, 50, and that's just the way it was in their relationship. And she's like there years. Where it's not 50 50, and that's just the way it is. And that's the way it was for her. So at first I was kinda, it felt validating for me. I was like, Hmm. But then the more I thought about it, I'm like, ah, it's just more of the same of like, you know, when you have little kids, like the woman's just going to have to do more. Well, what was missing from that was like, and then I've been given space to work on my projects and things that are important to me. And I, that was missing from that conversation. Well, it couldn't happen. I mean, and that's like such an extreme example, like. The president of the United States. So like I get it. I'm sure he was not present. Um, But like, is isn't it just kind of a metaphor for all? Right. Yes. That. Nan's careers. Get. But first. I mean. Yeah. Yeah, there's something about it that didn't quite sit right with me. And I don't think it's about Michelle Obama's experience. I think it's our culture and I think it's this general acceptance that women just do more. And that's just the way it is that when women thrive it's in spite of, or despite their husbands, like busy-ness or the fact that they. Are off doing their thing. And like, for us to thrive, we have to do it. Like, despite that we have to rise above. We have to work harder than they have to. And like, I don't feel like there are a lot of stories of. Men supporting their. Wives careers, their spouses, careers, and putting their life on hold and their dreams on hold. For a greater cause because they believe in. And the woman in their life. And I know that this happens. I know that it does, but I don't think it happens enough. And, and especially in the situation, like, I feel like it does happen sometimes in those extremes where it's like one person rises above and one takes care of the home or vice versa, but like, How often is it that. One person staying at home. Like often, both are working, both have a career that like requires ongoing commitment and growth and achievement. And there's a domestic load and there's parenting that needs to be done. And that. If it's not being explicitly talked about. The females are often defaulting. Defaulting. Yeah. Even Michelle. Oh, fucking Bama. Right. So, but like, so what do we do about this? Because it doesn't feel good. Um, Yeah, what do we do? But I think we keep talking about it. I think we like keep coming to our partners with compassionate. And loving conversations, which I usually come at it with. Ragey um, present. Resentment. Um, but to like fix it, if it's, if it's unequal, And continue to try to change the conversation so that. My children. We'll see more. Equality. Because. I think that for both. Parties coming to the table, like you've said it before, like how did I even get into this role? I kind of had internalized. Some of this stuff that my stay at home mom. Um, had done, and my partner's the same. He had a stay at home mom, and I think that they kind of. Unintentionally internalized some things. And I didn't have a stay at home mom, but she did way more of the domestic load. But both my parents worked. Um, so I just feel like, just keep. Keep working at it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think. Sometimes, I think I'm in such a rush. And like this might be our life's work. It might, it might not happen in six months. Like. I don't know, you're you're in a rush to get things, to be more equal to burn it down. Burn it down. Can you give me an example? It burned down my career. Let's start over. Burn it down a burn this mother down. Yeah. All right. That's burn it down. Um, so usually I'll relate it to capitalism and patriarchy. That's just these systems. Aren't. I'm not into these systems. Let's just make some new ones. It's a burn that down, burn it down. That's the mood I'm in. Yeah. But also, I feel like I've achieved this sort of state of state of safety. Where I can happy thinking in this way. I wasn't thinking in this way, when I was starving myself. I wasn't thinking in this way, when I was just like riddled with anxiety. Yeah, I don't know. No. I totally agree. I mean, I think that's like, How some of these things exist, just like. I don't understand exactly how it happens, like how consciously it's there, but I feel like. Somebody somewhere knew that we could distract women. If we made them be obsessed with how they look. And then further to that. Kind of control their weight. And therefore they're hungry or they're thinking about what they're going to eat next, or like what not to eat. All of these things serve to disempower us. And we like drank the Kool-Aid so to speak. And I do feel like I'm waking up. And. Yeah, I had to get my mental health straight. Which took lots of years. Some hard times. But yeah. Now I've got the energy and the capacity to do something about it. Yeah. 'cause like my mom was run ragged. And didn't always parent me the way that I felt I should be parented, as we said at the beginning. Right. And like that was a disempowered woman. That was a woman who. Who suffered in the patriarchy. With her feminine cycles and. Femininity period. Yeah. Okay. And so when I. When I think back to. Like three generations ago. So anything about like, oh, like I want to burn it down. Like it's not moving fast enough for me. I want to burn it down. Um, I think that too, like my grandmother's upbringing. And what that looked like. Um, Um, a lot of poverty, like rural farm life, like no running water. Like life was hard. Like getting food was hard. Like you're cooking things from scratch. You're sewing clothes. You're washing clothes by hand. Like. Um, that was the reality. So you fast forward a few generations and it's like, here I am. Living in a home or working on a little computer. And was a dishwasher. That's doing my dishes and like, w. Washing machine and dryer. And like, I can order groceries to my house and I have art supplies and like, oh look, I found time to like paint. Like I am living in a. Abundant future that my ancestors only dreamed of. And I think sometimes I can be in a victim mindset of like, oh, like I didn't have the right art supplies. Like I should probably do oil paints and like, oh, I need an easel. How much does an easel cost? And they're like, if I cut up and like all the things I don't have, but it's like, I have. I have art supplies at home. Like this idea that. I don't know what it's getting in my way of, like, I don't have enough for like, it's unfair. And like, when you look at how much, like I have like leaped from where my ancestors were, it's actually quite remarkable. A remarkable perspective. Truly. But sometimes I think because the struggles. Are less. It's more obvious. Or. Curious that we feel down or depressed because it's like, look around, like, there's nothing hard happening. Like what's. What's happening. Whoa. Okay. Whereas before it'd be like, I'm actually, this isn't my own thing. Have you ever watched any of Michael Chase stand up? No. Um, he was on SNL or maybe he still is. Um, but that was like one thing, like he's a black man and he was like talking he's. So I love his sense of humor. He weaves in like political issues and like racism, but like, it's funny. And not in like a self-deprecating way. But now he's talking about his own mental health struggles and that like his ancestors, like. It was like, they're like they were out like picking in a cotton field. They didn't look at each other and say like, oh, like, why are you sad? It's like, we fucking knew why you were sad. And we shouldn't talk about it because there was a reason to be sad, but like, It's so complex. It's so complicated. Why are we so fucking sad? But the thing I was thinking about, actually, when you were talking about your ancestors, I recently saw this, this video. It was like, Eight or 10 Scottish women sitting around a picnic deal. Did you see this? This weaving a net or what are they making? I don't know that. Yes, some special sort of Scottish knitted sweater, like, and they're singing and they're, whapping it. And they're passing it and like, It probably would be a horrible task, but when you have 10 people and you're singing a song and whapping it at the same time, like, is that a term lapping? It should be. Um, it just looks so joyous and it's like, as we've worked so hard to like, remove these very real struggles, just to like get through our day to be close, to be warm, to be fed. It's like disconnected us from community. And we're sad and we don't feel safe and we don't feel seen. Yeah. So we just need to make more. Scottish dresses together. Hm. Well, and also, so when you're in that survival mode of generations past, whether it's yeah, you are in slavery or you are. Um, Not pioneer and working and land or, um, Um, yeah, you probably don't have time to examine the systems that you're working within. Or living within and. And so yeah, you remove some of those hardships, but the system still remain right. Ah, yeah, totally. Right. And so. We are still women living in patriarchy. Um, Yeah. I got to burn that shit down, write it down. Okay. Yeah. That's it. That's all. Love you, man. Happy holidays. Nice.
