WEBVTT
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Every leader says they have standards.
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Ask what happens when your best performer breaks one.
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Most go quiet.
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That's the real test.
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Not what you'll tolerate from someone who's already struggling, but what you'll tolerate from someone you don't want to lose.
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If the honest answer is nothing, the standard was never a standard, it was just a preference.
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Welcome to i Communicate.
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I'm Mark Altman, founder of Mindset Go and your host.
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Today we're talking about deal breakers.
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The behaviors your organization will not tolerate from anyone at any level.
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A list of deal breakers that only gets enforced against your weakest performers is not a culture of excellence.
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It's a filing system for people you are already going to let go.
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So great to be back.
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And you know, as I approach this episode, I want to address a potential elephant in the room because if you listen to what I said in the opening, you know, it said behaviors your organization won't tolerate from anyone at any level.
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That is a deal breaker.
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That's a standard.
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And it feels very rigid.
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It feels very absolute.
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And in my coaching practice, I'm often coaching people not to think in a rigid, absolute fashion.
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However, when it comes to a culture of excellence, inaction is action.
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And every day, and I often make this bold statement when I meet a group of executives.
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If I'm presenting to a peer group at the first time, I'll often make the statement, I'll say, even though I don't know you really, any of you really that well at all, I would bet a lot of money that you're enabling someone.
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I could guarantee you're enabling someone at your company right now.
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And they all look at me in almost kind of an annoyed, puzzled look, basically, how could you say that you don't know me?
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And the answer is because there's someone who isn't meeting your expectations that's still working for you.
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Right?
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So if someone is not not meeting, excuse me, if someone is not meeting your expectations and they're still working for you, then there's an enablement going on.
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And that could be for a number of reasons.
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It could be number one, you've decided to accept that flaw or shortcoming.
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It could be because you haven't had a difficult conversation to hold them accountable.
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It could be because you're conflict avoidance and lacking a level of assertiveness.
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It could be for a lot of reasons.
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But when we look at the decay of culture, and let me let me say under no uncertain terms, when I say the decay of culture, culture is the direct link to revenue growth, to change management, to the company scaling and achieving its strategic initiatives and strategic plan.
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So, yes, this ties into culture, but this really ties into the bottom line for companies and what gets in the way and what typically gets in the way of growth is behavior.
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Almost always, when someone says what's in the way, people are not demonstrating certain behaviors.
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I'm working with a company right now who's working with us on our culture of excellence product, and we're building out the KPIs to prove that this is going to work.
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And so we have clear, measurable results and impact to show how the culture affects the bottom line.
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So when I asked the company to come up with the key revenue numbers, qualitative and quantitative, that they wanted to achieve, whether it's revenue or growth initiatives, I asked them to fill out a column and said, for the ones that you're not meeting or behind on or are worried that can be successful, what would be the behaviors that if everyone responsible for contributing to the success of that KPI or that goal acted in accordance with those behaviors or cultural norms, what would be those behaviors to make it successful?
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And it was a very interesting process for them because they had never thought about it that way.
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You know, people are really good at articulating when they're disappointed or frustrated or have unmet expectations, but they're not as good as pointing out that the behaviors where I'll say to someone, finish this sentence, you would be able to achieve 10% revenue growth if the sales team that was responsible for that consistently demonstrated A, B, and C behaviors.
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It's just not thought of that way.
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And that's why this episode is about standards in deal breakers.
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And I want you to think of it from this point of view for a moment, okay?
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Imagine being disappointed in someone's quality of work.
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And you may be mumbled to yourself, boy, they just don't seem to have standards, or they don't seem to have high standards, or they don't seem to have my standards.
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Because very often when we get disappointed or frustrated with people, it's because we expect them to do things a certain way, right?
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The way we would do them, whatever process we follow, our critical thinking, our decision making, the way we problem solve.
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We expect people to do it the way we do it because we believe that's the right way to do it.
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So when you get disappointed with someone and you question whether people have standards or if they have high standards, the question is, what does that mean?
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And this brings us to one of our core frameworks in a culture of excellence, which is called a success template.
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Now, I've talked about a success template in many past podcast episodes, and almost every episode we do, it comes up because a success template is a clear expectation.
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A success template is what would you see and hear someone do to know that they're meeting your standards, or for that matter, exceeding your standards.
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Because when you coach people, you can say to them, you know, gosh, I just I just wish you had higher standards, or this doesn't meet my standard, but that doesn't really tell them anything.
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That's not a success template, that's not a clear expectation.
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So if you were to actually provide a success template, specific success criteria, so someone would know if they were meeting and exceeding your standards, or at minimum, if they knew, how would they know that they were making progress to those standards, right?
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Here's some examples.
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Okay.
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So one is that people, when they submit work, have some kind of quality control process that's reliable, right?
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You know, I was talking to my youngest son the other day, and he just started an auto detailing business.
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And so he just got a big customer, and I said to him, How do you know the work's done?
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And he said, Well, what do you mean?
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I said, Well, do you set clear expectations when you have a new customer?
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Do you say, hey, I want to tell you this is how we do it, this is what we think is done.
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Does that align with what you think is done?
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Because everybody has expectations on how they want their car detailed.
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And if you don't have that discussion beforehand, then you're set up for failure because you may not align on what those expectations or success criteria may be.
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So the point is, I said to him, I joked to him, I said, Well, you know how you know it's done and you've have high standards is when you think it's done and you close the door to the car or the truck, then you go back in and say, Nope, it's not done, I better look again.
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Because having a standard is it's your name on it, it's your brand.
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I tell my own employees that when you submit work to me that is going to go out to a client or that you think is ready to go out to a client, don't rely on me to spot your errors.
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When it gets to me and you submit the work, the work should be all ready to go.
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You should have done the quality control, you should have done the due diligence.
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It doesn't mean it has to be perfect, and it doesn't mean when I look at this work, we don't have great dialogues.
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But for someone to be proud of the work they submit, what effort did they make to get it to the point to represent their brand and their reputation?
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So what kind of you know, correcting a course before someone has to point it out, giving that work one more pass, even though a lesser version may pass the test.
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But knowing what to check, right?
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It's one thing to give it one more pass, it's another thing to know what to check.
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Third is keep a promise once it becomes inconvenient to keep.
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If integrity is a standard, right?
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And your word is a standard, you don't get to pick and choose unilaterally when you keep promises and don't.
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So that would be a way you could make progress.
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Um address small things earlier on before waiting for it to become a pattern, right?
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So a standard is not, ah, it's not that big a deal.
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It's addressing things early on in processes before they come pattern, before they become a pattern, so your standards are met.
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So those are success template criteria and behavior that if someone was trying to meet standards or have high standards, those are examples of things they could do.
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And the thing about behavior is behavior is the ultimate test, right?
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Behaviors help achieve scalability, help navigate change, help grow revenue, you know, help optimize efficiency.
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It always comes down to behaviors.
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They're the core function of everything.
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And that's why, you know, when I got into this business, one of the appeals to me, and I just had this conversation with a client yesterday, he said, you know, I'm just curious, why did you name your company Mindset Go?
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And I said, you know, that's that's an easy question for me, because I believe the hardest things for human beings to do are to shift their own mindset and to know how to shift other people's mindsets.
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Because people get stuck, people get in a fixed state, they get resistant to change.
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So if you want someone to be a higher performer, if you want someone to exceed expectations or standards, you better name them.
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And naming a standard isn't buzzwords like integrity and performance.
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Naming a standard is putting that success template criteria out there so I know how to succeed.
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And here's the thing.
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I'm gonna give you an example of a standard in customer service, right?
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So, an example in customer service is my two examples in customer service I like to give is a customer, my customer should always know what's gonna happen and when it's gonna happen.
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And the premise behind that standard is because I see customer service as peace of mind.
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And if any of my customers are walking around going, wait, what are they supposed to send me and when are they gonna get back to me on that?
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The fact that I'm creating stress or confusion or anxiety means in my mind I'm failing them.
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That's that's not my standard.
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You know, and one of the things we talk about in the culture of excellence is it's not about being perfect.
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It's not, it's about the concept of norms versus exceptions.
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You know, if I was to follow you around at your job or any of the roles you play in life as a parent, as a coach, as a brother, as a sister, as a child, whatever role you play, the question is if I followed you around for weeks on end, what would I notice are the norms and exceptions in your behavior?
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And and I thought a lot about this, and I've and I've I've polled a lot of people about this.
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If something's a norm, it should happen 80 to 90 percent of the time.
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Right?
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Not perfect 80 to 90 percent of the time.
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And see, for me, you know, when you talk about how you treat people, how you communicate with people, how you lead people, everybody's gonna have a bad day.
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Everybody's gonna have regrets or mulligans or wish they had situations they could take back.
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But the question is, is it an exception versus the norm?
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Because if it's an exception, you're way more likely to get latitude for your bad day because you've established the norm for your behavior, you've benchmarked who you are so people know the truth of who you are.
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And so when I talk about peace of mind, right, should always know what's gonna happen and when it's gonna happen.
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And my second one is I like to acknowledge all communication within 24 hours, right?
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That feels reasonable to me.
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And I, and by the way, that one is not just for external clients, that's for my team internally.
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Because customer service, I've said for a long time now, the way you treat your team internally should not be any different than the way you treat your clients externally.
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But here's the rub to this whole thing, right?
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So I opened up the show talking about deal breakers, and here's the rub, right?
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So if you have an employee that doesn't set clear expectations on what's going to happen and when it's gonna happen, and uses terms like I'll get back to you as soon as I know, or ASAP, unclear expectations, right?
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If you have an employee that does that, or you have an employee that doesn't consistently respond in 24 hours, is that a firable offense?
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Now, most of you may be listening and going, well, I wouldn't fire a person if they didn't do that.
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Well, I don't think it's a black and white answer.
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And here's why.
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Because the whole thing about having deal breakers and standards as a company is you're putting out to the company proactively from the second they walk in the door, this is what we tolerate, this is what we don't tolerate.
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If one of your core values is customer service or client-centric behavior, those are client-centric behaviors.
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So are you firing them for not doing the transgression or the behavior of not responding to client emails within 24 hours or missing deadlines or not setting clear expectations?
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Is that why you're firing them?
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I don't see it that way.
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And I'm not automatically saying you would fire them, but what has to happen is there's three levels of a problem in an organization.
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When you establish deal breakers and you establish standards, right?
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You have a transgression, which is the lowest level, which is someone committed a transgression.
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They didn't do what they were supposed to do, they they missed a deadline, they showed up late for work, um, they are in conflict with a team member and being emotional.
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It doesn't matter.
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They didn't do what they were supposed to do.
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So for an individual transgression, no, you're not going to fire someone, especially if they've established a norm and what that transgression is, it's an exception.
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But when you start looking at cultural norms, right, and core behaviors for the organization, are they aligned with those behaviors?
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Because the question isn't being punitive and sending them to their room for not responding to a client within 24 hours.
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The question is having a conversation with them about aligning on the commitments and priorities and why it's important to do that and why the company values those specific behaviors, and how it ties into the core beliefs, and how it ties into the vision, and how it ties into the strategic goals.
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Because maybe one of the biggest goals for the company is client retention or client existing client growth.
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And then for client retention and existing client growth to be a factor, then customer service things like giving clients peace of mind, answering questions in a timely manner tie into those things.
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Right?
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So that that's that's the challenge because it's not just about being punitive, it's not being nitpicky, it's not looking to fire someone arbitrarily, it's about holding the standards and what is like an intolerable behavior so the company can be successful.
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You know, a lot of the work we do with companies in our culture of excellence model is one of the things that comes up with almost every company we work with is fairness and transparency.
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We live in a world where when people feel wronged and they don't feel like they're being treated fairly, they get very upset.
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Think about if you're in line at an amusement park, you're standing in line, someone cuts in front of you, you're upset.
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That is not something that is quote unquote tolerable in our society.
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That would be looked down on very much in our society.
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So in that moment, you feel wronged.
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Now you have a decision to make, right?
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You can be aggressive and and you know create a scene for the person cutting in front of you.
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You could do that.
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You could be passive and you could say nothing at all, or you could be assertive and say, excuse me, you need to go to the back of the line.
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Uh, we've been waiting here for a while.
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You have those choices and how you want to handle that, but you see there's a standard in our society about not cutting in line.
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It is a norm to not cut in line.
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Do you tolerate when people cut in front of you?
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And my point being that when we feel wronged, we get upset.
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Now, whether we communicate that frustration or we internalize that frustration, that depends.
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But either way, when people feel like they're being treated unfairly, it creates tension and discord in company culture.
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So when you look at what you tolerate and what you don't tolerate, and you allow people to play by a different set of rules, that is an absolute culture crusher.
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So when companies look around and go, well, how come we're behind on our KPIs and how come we're not as productive and as efficient as we once were?
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First place I go is are people being enabled?
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Is there an element of unfairness?
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Are certain managers in different departments allowing people to come in late for work or work from home?
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And then other managers are allowing their team to play by a different set of rules.
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Are certain people getting recognition and appreciation and resources at one part of the company and others are not?
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And then the transparency element comes into play here because it's a double whammy, right?
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Because if people aren't transparent about the decisions, if the executive team and leadership is not transparent about the decisions they make, right, then it creates suspicion, it creates distrust, and then you start to question the fairness.
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And let me let me just say this about fairness.
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It's a very polarizing word.
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I don't live my life in a way where I believe every single person should be treated the exact same way in every situation.
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And and and we know this because the best example of this is salespeople.
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If salespeople generate more money, they get higher bonuses, they get more perks.
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So if you perform at a higher level, you are treated different in sales typically.
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The thing is, though, that is usually transparently communicated up front.
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So there's no suspicion, there's no surprises.
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If you accomplish A, you get B.
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It's put out to the world.
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I see so many companies that are very that lack transparency about what earns raises and promotions.
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And it feels subjective and it feels arbitrary.
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And there's no reason not to be transparent about that.
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Let people know what they need to do.
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And and what happens is when there's a lack of transparency around raises and promotions, companies often get themselves in trouble because what they'll do is if the company's doing really well, they may get higher bonuses or raises one year, and the next year they may not get as high.
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But then a precedent's been established.
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So now, if I got a 10% raise last year and I'm not getting one this year, and you were never told me why I did or didn't get one, now I'm going, well, wait, did am I not doing a good job?
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Or are you dissatisfied with my performance?
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Like, and again, it creates all kinds of confusion because of the lack of transparency.
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Now, when you put out your your non-negotiables, when you put out your deal breakers and say, this is how everyone has to behave at this company.
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This is non-negotiable what we expect, right?
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Then the question is, this is where the rubber hits the road.
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Because now one of the biggest challenges I run into is high performers who aren't playing nicely with others.
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Toxic high performers.
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So uh they're they do their job really well, they've been at the company a long time, they're loyal, they're they're invaluable based on the knowledge they keep and have built.
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And now they're not meeting the standards.
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So now what do we do?
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Because we can't really afford to lose them.
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So now we look the other way, or we make exceptions.
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And that starts the downfall because there's a lack of consistency.
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:31.920
You know, one of the things when I've I've talked to different levels of leadership over the years, I've talked to team members, and they've said, what do you want from your leader?
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.240
And there's all kinds of answers, right?
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:39.680
I want a servant leader, I want a leader who makes time to help my development and help my career path.
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:41.200
And the answers go on and on.
00:23:41.359 --> 00:24:06.799
And you know what I think ideally, the number one answer that most people want is they want a leader that's consistent, that's reliable, that's dependable, that's trustworthy, a leader that they can count on because there isn't inconsistency in how people are treated, around fairness, there's no secrets, transparency is out there, and people know what to expect.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:11.279
That's what I think people want more than anything else.
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:15.839
And where the rubber hits the road is this.
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:22.480
If you're buying what I'm selling, and if you agree, no, we have to have deal breakers.
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:24.640
We don't do a good job at our organization.
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:26.480
We tend to enable people.
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:32.480
We tend to look the other way with our high performers or invaluable leaders, right?
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:41.200
If that's if that's you, if you're thinking about that, well, I have an expression I use in coaching, it's called fake problem, real problem, right?
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:47.279
The fake surface level problem is that you're enabling these people and you're not upholding standards.
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:58.640
And not only maybe have you not even come up with a list of deal breakers, even if in your mind you have those deal breakers, have you actually taken the time to communicate them so people know what the deal breakers are?
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:04.720
And then the question is when those standards aren't met, now what?
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:18.960
And the typical path is a write-up, a performance improvement plan, some kind of progressive discipline, key word being discipline.
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.119
I don't like the word discipline.
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:22.400
It triggers people.
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:32.720
And frankly, the second you go down the path of a write-up or a performance improvement plan, okay, it feels punitive.
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:37.839
Now, I get that you may have to for legal and HR and compliance purposes.
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:44.319
And what can we do before that to coach and correct the situation?
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.799
To support what I call behavior substitution.
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:53.519
And this is where this is the real issue on the table.
00:25:53.759 --> 00:26:09.759
Because I don't think, in my experience, and now almost 15 years of doing this, I have come across such a small percentage of leaders at any level that know how to actually coach behavior change.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:31.519
It's very hard to coach behavior change because coaching behavior change, the actual art of coaching is getting people to recognize the impact of their behavior, not because you're telling them, because they recognize and walking them through a coaching process.
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:32.960
And it takes some time.
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:38.319
It can be done, it is done, but very few leaders know how to do that.
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:48.799
So if you were going to uphold the standard, if you weren't gonna take a punitive disciplinary route and you were gonna coach them, what does that look like?
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.000
What does coaching behavior change look like?
00:26:54.720 --> 00:27:09.039
And that's the real issue because I think when it comes down to it, when people try to have conversations, when the executives or leaders try to have conversations to hold people accountable to these standards and deal breakers, are they effective?
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:13.599
Do they even know what that conversation looks like to make it effective?
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:18.160
So here's all the hurdles that have to over be overcome, just to summarize for a minute.
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:29.200
Number one, you have to take the time to come up with a list of deal breakers, behaviors that you will not tolerate to uphold the standards and the vision and the mission of the company.
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:30.160
That's number one.
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:38.480
Number two, you actually have to communicate what those standards are, cascade that messaging down to all levels of the company.
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:42.960
And not just email a list, hey, by the way, these are our deal makers.
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:51.039
Have a town hall, have leadership meetings, have discussions to walk people through, hey, these are what they are, this is how they were picked.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:53.279
This is why we think these are important.
00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:57.680
And by the way, I do retreats with companies all the time where we work these out.
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:19.759
It's very collaborative, it's often the top two levels of leadership, but you have to come up with them, you have to communicate them, you have to communicate them in a collaborative way, and then you have to do the follow-through and hold people accountable to meeting those standards and playing by the rules so it's fair and it's transparent.
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.119
So it seems time consuming.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:24.400
It's not time consuming.
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:26.319
You just need to follow the process.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:38.880
And when we built out this culture of excellence, that was the whole idea behind it is what are the frameworks, what are the systems in place that need to be effective to support a culture of excellence?
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:54.559
And these coaching conversations come down to three non-negotiable questions that have to be asked amidst those coaching conversations.
00:28:54.720 --> 00:29:07.039
Because when someone isn't upholding the standards, whatever those cultural norms are that people are not abiding by or are not aligned with, the first question is you have to understand what's in the way.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.880
Why are they making the choice?
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:10.559
They are making a choice.
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:18.640
If someone doesn't respond to a client within 24 hours, if someone doesn't set clear expectations, they are making a choice.
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:32.559
Now, it could be a skill level they don't have to know how to do something, it could be knowledge, it could be priority, it could be what they believe is capacity, it could be lots of reasons, but it is a choice.
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:39.519
So when someone makes that choice, right, you have to understand why they are making that choice.
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:44.720
What's in the way of them practicing the standard, meeting the standard?
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:46.400
So that's question number one.
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:53.359
Question number two is what does the person propose to meet the standard?
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:59.039
You can give them suggestions, you can tell them what you want them to do, but I want to know what they think.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:06.000
I want to know what they think needs to happen differently and what goals they want to set.
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:07.839
And I want to know if they're motivated.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:12.240
I I absolutely want to know if they're even motivated to meet the standard.
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:12.960
Right?
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:19.359
Because someone can tell you, yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't get to that, but that doesn't mean they're motivated to do it differently.
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:22.000
So I want to know if they're motivated to meet the standard.
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:25.440
And then lastly, I want to know is what's the plan?
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.680
Because they can have a goal, they can have a strategy, right?
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:35.200
But what's the tactical plan to substitute the behavior?
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:41.200
To make sure you respond to those emails in 24 hours, because it's not going to happen magically.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:31:10.160
And as as we tell our clients all the time, if someone you need to change their behavior isn't doing something you need to do, if someone isn't doing something you need them to do at all consistently or well, then there better be a plan, you better know what's in the way, and there better be some kind of goal to measure and success criteria to measure their progress.
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:22.880
So we can have the list, but the question is we don't want to be rigid and go a punitive route right away.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:38.960
We want to know how to coach people, we want to know how to develop people's skills, we want to know how to inspire people to want to change, to see the value in change, to recognize the impact of the change for themselves, for the team, for the company.
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:41.039
The whole thing.
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:56.000
Now, what's interesting is okay, that when you look at things, let's let's talk about two levels of things that are tolerated.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:08.559
And I'm going to use a model with a company I just did, we just work with, and I call these tier one, tier two, tier three standards or deal breakers.
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:27.200
Now, the easiest one, companies never have a problem with this, is what we call dishonesty, falsifying information, and then we get to the bucket that's also in tier well, tier one abuse, retaliation, discrimination, hostility.
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:36.160
So those are the ones where usually when we do this exercise, companies will be like, well, obviously, we don't keep people around if they act like that.
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:39.440
I said, is it that obvious?
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:44.799
I said, are you sure that everyone that's working for you right now hasn't been dishonest about anything?
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:56.079
Could you point to some examples where people either gave half-truths or were dishonest, maybe to cover up a mistake they made, maybe to cover up a mistake someone on their team made?
00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:01.359
Are you sure dishonesty is an automatic termination?
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:07.119
And a couple of the leaders looked at me and said, Well, no, I guess when you put it like that, maybe not.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:15.200
See, what's interesting about dishonesty, there's two buzzwords, too, that that are right in between the tier one and tier two.
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:18.720
One's dishonesty and one's one's disrespect.
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:29.599
And the thing about dishonesty that's interesting to me is if I have someone on my team that covers up a mistake, again, the fake problem is they covered up a mistake.
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:31.359
It was a dishonest act.
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:35.680
But the real problem is why did they why did they make that choice?
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:40.000
Why did they make the choice to cover up a mistake?
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:43.440
I don't think people always lie maliciously.
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:48.000
I and I believe me, I don't enable people, but I think it was a choice.
00:33:48.160 --> 00:34:07.039
And so I want to I want to understand why they felt the need to lie, and I want to find out at a higher level if they're aligned with the core value of honesty, because you know, companies spend millions and billions of dollars on trust and hiring outside consultants to help with trust.
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:18.800
And at the end of the day, right, if trust is the most important foundation with people and people are being dishonest, is it that what they were dishonest about wasn't that big of a deal?
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:24.079
Or was it that if they were dishonest once, they're likely to be dishonest again?
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:26.000
Maybe.
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:32.400
So that's why we we immediately assume, well, it's dishonesty, but not necessarily in disrespect.
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:36.000
Oh my goodness, disrespect gets enabled all the time in companies.
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:39.760
And the reason why is because define disrespect.
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:49.039
You know, in a culture of excellence, you leave nothing open for subjectivity, you leave nothing open for ambiguity.
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:54.559
You can still allow people to have autonomy, you can still allow people to feel empowered.
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:57.760
It's not interfering with autonomy and empowerment.
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:08.000
But we want to remove subjectivity and ambiguity so expectations are clear and people can be held responsible for what those cultural norms are.
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:13.840
And if you don't have a set of norms for respect, then it becomes very subjective.
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:19.440
What feels disrespectful to me might not feel disrespectful to somebody else.
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:29.119
So when you start identifying deal breakers, it's not just a core value word like respect, a fluff word like that.
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.960
You would have to say, hey, this is how we term disrespect.
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:36.800
This is what it looks like, and really define that.
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:51.840
So when you talk about tier one, right, that's a major factor in tier one is the obvious ones abuse, hostility, retaliate, retaliation, falsifying information.
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:56.159
But dishonesty and respect, are they tolerated or are they not?
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:58.480
And what would be the behaviors that do it?
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:03.360
Now I'm going to read you an example for a company we just work with, right?
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:12.960
And what I have them do is they have to actually, when they take something as obvious as dishonesty and falsifying information, they have to answer three questions.
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:29.599
What it looks like if they were violating our standard, what it looks like if it's not, what it isn't, meaning this this isn't violating our standard, and then how do we respond and escalate a situation that happens that way?
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:34.239
And this is the example for dishonesty and falsifying information.
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:55.599
What it looks like is knowingly reporting information or status that isn't accurate, intentionally withholding information to create misleading inform a misleading picture, altering or falsifying records, data, results, hours, quality or compliance or business information.
00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:03.920
Or saying something was completed, reviewed, approved, or communicated when you know it wasn't.
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:12.960
Now, if you listen to all those, there was a key theme in the four of those, and they were all painfully clear expectations.
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:18.559
And the theme was it was intentional, you knew it.
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:29.519
Knowingly, intentionally, um saying something was done, altering like you knew what you were doing, you did it, you knew it.
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:36.400
So those four things, those don't meet the standards of this company and would be firable.
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:58.880
Now, what it isn't, dishonesty and falsifying information, is an honest mistake or misunderstanding, providing information that was believed to be accurate at the time, and correcting it when new facts emerge, changing a recommendation or opinion based on new information, or disagreeing about the interpretation of data.
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:02.559
That is not dishonesty and falsifying information.
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:20.880
And the the how we respond stage, first you default to curiosity and suspend judgment by clarifying and verifying the facts, address it directly with the individual, document, and then if it's what this looks like, it's termination.
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:26.000
So that's that's as clear as it gets.
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:31.920
That is as clear as it gets when it comes to deal breakers.
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:38.239
Now, the one other one I want to cover is that's an obvious one, okay?
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:48.079
But then here's one that's way more likely to be ambiguous, and it's talking about people instead of to them gossip.
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:51.360
Do we tolerate gossip in our culture?
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:53.519
Nobody wants it.
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:59.039
Everybody knows it's bad, but what would we do if we found someone gossiping?
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.039
Talking about people instead of to them.
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:07.840
Now keep in mind, in this case, gossip is also about being willing to have difficult conversations, right?
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:10.320
Because talking to them, not around them.
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:12.719
So again, three-part process.
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:14.159
What does it look like?
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:15.440
What is it not?
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:17.199
And how do we respond?
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:45.519
And so what it looks like is spreading information about someone's performance or character that you know is inaccurate, critiquing someone's work when they're not present to defend it or attempt to resolve it, creating side conversations intended to damage someone's credibility or reputation, or repeatedly complaining about an individual to peers without attempting to resolve the issue through the appropriate channel.
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:48.079
So those are four examples of what it looks like.
00:39:48.239 --> 00:40:13.039
What it isn't is a manager discussing performance concerns with HR or another leader, giving legitimate feedback to someone's manager when that person is not your direct report, escalating a concern through the appropriate management, asking a trusted leader for advice, reporting harassment, safety, compliance, ethical, or other legitimate concerns, or constructively discussing a business issue.
00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:15.039
So how do we respond?
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:24.719
Clarify and verify the facts, address it with the individual, document, set the standard, correct, and coach.
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:43.840
So I often make the point that one of the most emotionally agile things you can do is recognize you have choices, and recognize that when you think you only have two, you almost always have three or more.
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:50.159
So when you hear me read off these deal breakers, we've got what it looks like, what it isn't.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:52.159
So what are the choices?
00:40:52.480 --> 00:41:13.519
If someone is violating a standard, if you said it's something that's a deal breaker and you won't tolerate, you have to go the Punit route, whether that's a write-up, whether that's going to a performance improvement plan, which don't even get me started because I hate that term, or terminating them immediately, right?
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:17.039
It could be any of those, depending on what you've had escalation.
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:19.679
But I want to reinforce something here.
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.000
It's not about whether it's automatically firable.
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:34.480
It what it's about is if it's not meeting a standard, there has to be a clear disciplinary path and it has to be followed and it has to be consistent.
00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:41.199
And can't be one leader follows it and one leader doesn't follow it, because then it's not a standard, it's a preference.
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:51.519
So choice number one is to take them through the disciplinary path using any of those options depending on the severity of the issue and depending on your culture.
00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:06.400
Choice number two is if it's if they're doing something that is not meeting the standard, but it wasn't intentional, it wasn't purposeful, it doesn't meet the criteria, then, like we just read, there's a coaching opportunity.
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:12.800
There's a chance to set the standard, there's a chance to align on those expectations.
00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:18.320
So there's there's the coaching opportunity there as a way to solve the problem.
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:25.840
And then the third thing to do, of course, is to do nothing at all and just avoid, enable, and not have the conversation.
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:28.960
So you got three choices, right?
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:35.440
And two of the three can work situationally, but they've got to be acted on.
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:48.800
And every time you have an employee that doesn't meet the standard, a leader, a team member, and you look the other way, there is no standard.
00:42:52.239 --> 00:43:03.679
So as you think about this, as you think about the importance of deal breakers, here's where I believe the starting point is, right?
00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:28.320
If you are going to, as a result of listening to this podcast, whether you're a CEO, a founder, an owner leading a team, whether you're a small business, whether you're a mid-level manager who wants to work with your own team, the first thing is, because one of the things I like to talk about is you can create a subculture, right?
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:29.840
It's not optimal, right?
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:38.400
Because we want the culture, you know, we want the culture to be consistent, right?
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:51.119
But if you wanted to create a subculture to start the process, to break the chain, the first thing to do is to go through this exercise to identify what are your list of deal breakers.
00:43:51.840 --> 00:44:03.679
And this company's list, just to just so you know, they had poor communication, which is too vague and needed to be defined, lack of accountability or ownership, which again needed to be defined with cultural norms, right?
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:12.639
So they came up with a list of four and walked through this exercise of what it looks like, what it isn't, and how to how to escalate and solve the problem when it comes up.
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:32.239
So you could go through the exercise of listing what those deal breakers are for each one, what it is, what it isn't, how it would escalate to set those clear expectations, and then come up with how do you communicate that to the team and how do you follow through to make sure it's consistently being acted on.
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:36.880
Those are four simple steps that you could take to put this into practice.
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:41.679
I mean, you could do this activity with your kids, right?
00:44:44.000 --> 00:45:04.639
So for us, culture of excellence is about standards, it's about what we will tolerate, what we won't tolerate, it's about coaching people to shift their mindsets and to improve their behavioral performance.
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:07.760
Like that's a big part of the culture of excellence.
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:12.400
It's about norms, not exceptions, it's about norms, not exceptions.
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:17.840
We understand exceptions happen, but we have to establish what those cultural norms are.
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:22.400
We have to establish what you tolerate and what you won't tolerate.
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:26.559
Look, if you're in a relationship with a partner, it's no different.
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:33.920
Whether you actually verbalize it to your partner, to yourself, to each other, you you you it's built in.
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:36.800
There's things you tolerate, there's things you won't tolerate.
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:39.840
It's just a question of whether they're verbalized or not.
00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:45.280
You know, if you if you said to your partner, what do you think my list of deal breakers are?
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:46.559
Could they tell you the list?
00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:47.119
Maybe.
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:50.960
I bet they come up with at least some of them, and vice versa.
00:45:51.440 --> 00:46:03.519
But whether it's a personal relationship, a professional relationship, a company culture, really establishing what you'll tolerate, what you won't, and what those standards are are critical.
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:21.199
So if you want to know more information on how to build out deal breakers, how to uh leverage a culture of excellence blueprint, please feel free to reach out to us at uh mindsetgo.com.
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:25.440
And otherwise, uh, this is Mark Altman for another edition of i Communicate.
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:26.880
We'll see you next time.
00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:12.320
Every leader says they have standards.
00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:15.919
Ask what happens when your best performer breaks one.
00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:17.519
Most go quiet.
00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:18.960
That's the real test.
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:26.239
Not what you'll tolerate from someone who's already struggling, but what you'll tolerate from someone you don't want to lose.
00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:32.560
If the honest answer is nothing, the standard was never a standard, it was just a preference.
00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:34.159
Welcome to i Communicate.
00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:37.119
I'm Mark Altman, founder of Mindset Go and your host.
00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:39.679
Today we're talking about deal breakers.
00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:44.719
The behaviors your organization will not tolerate from anyone at any level.
00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:52.240
A list of deal breakers that only gets enforced against your weakest performers is not a culture of excellence.
00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:56.320
It's a filing system for people you are already going to let go.
00:00:58.000 --> 00:00:59.359
So great to be back.
00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:13.920
And you know, as I approach this episode, I want to address a potential elephant in the room because if you listen to what I said in the opening, you know, it said behaviors your organization won't tolerate from anyone at any level.
00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:16.159
That is a deal breaker.
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That's a standard.
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And it feels very rigid.
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It feels very absolute.
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And in my coaching practice, I'm often coaching people not to think in a rigid, absolute fashion.
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However, when it comes to a culture of excellence, inaction is action.
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And every day, and I often make this bold statement when I meet a group of executives.
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If I'm presenting to a peer group at the first time, I'll often make the statement, I'll say, even though I don't know you really, any of you really that well at all, I would bet a lot of money that you're enabling someone.
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I could guarantee you're enabling someone at your company right now.
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And they all look at me in almost kind of an annoyed, puzzled look, basically, how could you say that you don't know me?
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And the answer is because there's someone who isn't meeting your expectations that's still working for you.
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Right?
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So if someone is not not meeting, excuse me, if someone is not meeting your expectations and they're still working for you, then there's an enablement going on.
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And that could be for a number of reasons.
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It could be number one, you've decided to accept that flaw or shortcoming.
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It could be because you haven't had a difficult conversation to hold them accountable.
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It could be because you're conflict avoidance and lacking a level of assertiveness.
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It could be for a lot of reasons.
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But when we look at the decay of culture, and let me let me say under no uncertain terms, when I say the decay of culture, culture is the direct link to revenue growth, to change management, to the company scaling and achieving its strategic initiatives and strategic plan.
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So, yes, this ties into culture, but this really ties into the bottom line for companies and what gets in the way and what typically gets in the way of growth is behavior.
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Almost always, when someone says what's in the way, people are not demonstrating certain behaviors.
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I'm working with a company right now who's working with us on our culture of excellence product, and we're building out the KPIs to prove that this is going to work.
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And so we have clear, measurable results and impact to show how the culture affects the bottom line.
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So when I asked the company to come up with the key revenue numbers, qualitative and quantitative, that they wanted to achieve, whether it's revenue or growth initiatives, I asked them to fill out a column and said, for the ones that you're not meeting or behind on or are worried that can be successful, what would be the behaviors that if everyone responsible for contributing to the success of that KPI or that goal acted in accordance with those behaviors or cultural norms, what would be those behaviors to make it successful?
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And it was a very interesting process for them because they had never thought about it that way.
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You know, people are really good at articulating when they're disappointed or frustrated or have unmet expectations, but they're not as good as pointing out that the behaviors where I'll say to someone, finish this sentence, you would be able to achieve 10% revenue growth if the sales team that was responsible for that consistently demonstrated A, B, and C behaviors.
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It's just not thought of that way.
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And that's why this episode is about standards in deal breakers.
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And I want you to think of it from this point of view for a moment, okay?
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Imagine being disappointed in someone's quality of work.
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And you may be mumbled to yourself, boy, they just don't seem to have standards, or they don't seem to have high standards, or they don't seem to have my standards.
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Because very often when we get disappointed or frustrated with people, it's because we expect them to do things a certain way, right?
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The way we would do them, whatever process we follow, our critical thinking, our decision making, the way we problem solve.
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We expect people to do it the way we do it because we believe that's the right way to do it.
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So when you get disappointed with someone and you question whether people have standards or if they have high standards, the question is, what does that mean?
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And this brings us to one of our core frameworks in a culture of excellence, which is called a success template.
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Now, I've talked about a success template in many past podcast episodes, and almost every episode we do, it comes up because a success template is a clear expectation.
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A success template is what would you see and hear someone do to know that they're meeting your standards, or for that matter, exceeding your standards.
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Because when you coach people, you can say to them, you know, gosh, I just I just wish you had higher standards, or this doesn't meet my standard, but that doesn't really tell them anything.
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That's not a success template, that's not a clear expectation.
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So if you were to actually provide a success template, specific success criteria, so someone would know if they were meeting and exceeding your standards, or at minimum, if they knew, how would they know that they were making progress to those standards, right?
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Here's some examples.
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Okay.
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So one is that people, when they submit work, have some kind of quality control process that's reliable, right?
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You know, I was talking to my youngest son the other day, and he just started an auto detailing business.
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And so he just got a big customer, and I said to him, How do you know the work's done?
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And he said, Well, what do you mean?
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I said, Well, do you set clear expectations when you have a new customer?
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Do you say, hey, I want to tell you this is how we do it, this is what we think is done.
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Does that align with what you think is done?
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Because everybody has expectations on how they want their car detailed.
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And if you don't have that discussion beforehand, then you're set up for failure because you may not align on what those expectations or success criteria may be.
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So the point is, I said to him, I joked to him, I said, Well, you know how you know it's done and you've have high standards is when you think it's done and you close the door to the car or the truck, then you go back in and say, Nope, it's not done, I better look again.
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Because having a standard is it's your name on it, it's your brand.
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I tell my own employees that when you submit work to me that is going to go out to a client or that you think is ready to go out to a client, don't rely on me to spot your errors.
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When it gets to me and you submit the work, the work should be all ready to go.
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You should have done the quality control, you should have done the due diligence.
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It doesn't mean it has to be perfect, and it doesn't mean when I look at this work, we don't have great dialogues.
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But for someone to be proud of the work they submit, what effort did they make to get it to the point to represent their brand and their reputation?
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So what kind of you know, correcting a course before someone has to point it out, giving that work one more pass, even though a lesser version may pass the test.
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But knowing what to check, right?
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It's one thing to give it one more pass, it's another thing to know what to check.
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Third is keep a promise once it becomes inconvenient to keep.
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If integrity is a standard, right?
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And your word is a standard, you don't get to pick and choose unilaterally when you keep promises and don't.
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So that would be a way you could make progress.
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Um address small things earlier on before waiting for it to become a pattern, right?
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So a standard is not, ah, it's not that big a deal.
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It's addressing things early on in processes before they come pattern, before they become a pattern, so your standards are met.
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So those are success template criteria and behavior that if someone was trying to meet standards or have high standards, those are examples of things they could do.
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And the thing about behavior is behavior is the ultimate test, right?
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Behaviors help achieve scalability, help navigate change, help grow revenue, you know, help optimize efficiency.
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It always comes down to behaviors.
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They're the core function of everything.
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And that's why, you know, when I got into this business, one of the appeals to me, and I just had this conversation with a client yesterday, he said, you know, I'm just curious, why did you name your company Mindset Go?
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And I said, you know, that's that's an easy question for me, because I believe the hardest things for human beings to do are to shift their own mindset and to know how to shift other people's mindsets.
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Because people get stuck, people get in a fixed state, they get resistant to change.
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So if you want someone to be a higher performer, if you want someone to exceed expectations or standards, you better name them.
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And naming a standard isn't buzzwords like integrity and performance.
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Naming a standard is putting that success template criteria out there so I know how to succeed.
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And here's the thing.
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I'm gonna give you an example of a standard in customer service, right?
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So, an example in customer service is my two examples in customer service I like to give is a customer, my customer should always know what's gonna happen and when it's gonna happen.
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And the premise behind that standard is because I see customer service as peace of mind.
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And if any of my customers are walking around going, wait, what are they supposed to send me and when are they gonna get back to me on that?
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The fact that I'm creating stress or confusion or anxiety means in my mind I'm failing them.
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That's that's not my standard.
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You know, and one of the things we talk about in the culture of excellence is it's not about being perfect.
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It's not, it's about the concept of norms versus exceptions.
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You know, if I was to follow you around at your job or any of the roles you play in life as a parent, as a coach, as a brother, as a sister, as a child, whatever role you play, the question is if I followed you around for weeks on end, what would I notice are the norms and exceptions in your behavior?
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And and I thought a lot about this, and I've and I've I've polled a lot of people about this.
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If something's a norm, it should happen 80 to 90 percent of the time.
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Right?
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Not perfect 80 to 90 percent of the time.
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And see, for me, you know, when you talk about how you treat people, how you communicate with people, how you lead people, everybody's gonna have a bad day.
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Everybody's gonna have regrets or mulligans or wish they had situations they could take back.
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But the question is, is it an exception versus the norm?
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Because if it's an exception, you're way more likely to get latitude for your bad day because you've established the norm for your behavior, you've benchmarked who you are so people know the truth of who you are.
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And so when I talk about peace of mind, right, should always know what's gonna happen and when it's gonna happen.
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And my second one is I like to acknowledge all communication within 24 hours, right?
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That feels reasonable to me.
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And I, and by the way, that one is not just for external clients, that's for my team internally.
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Because customer service, I've said for a long time now, the way you treat your team internally should not be any different than the way you treat your clients externally.
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But here's the rub to this whole thing, right?
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So I opened up the show talking about deal breakers, and here's the rub, right?
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So if you have an employee that doesn't set clear expectations on what's going to happen and when it's gonna happen, and uses terms like I'll get back to you as soon as I know, or ASAP, unclear expectations, right?
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If you have an employee that does that, or you have an employee that doesn't consistently respond in 24 hours, is that a firable offense?
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Now, most of you may be listening and going, well, I wouldn't fire a person if they didn't do that.
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Well, I don't think it's a black and white answer.
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And here's why.
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Because the whole thing about having deal breakers and standards as a company is you're putting out to the company proactively from the second they walk in the door, this is what we tolerate, this is what we don't tolerate.
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If one of your core values is customer service or client-centric behavior, those are client-centric behaviors.
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So are you firing them for not doing the transgression or the behavior of not responding to client emails within 24 hours or missing deadlines or not setting clear expectations?
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Is that why you're firing them?
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I don't see it that way.
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And I'm not automatically saying you would fire them, but what has to happen is there's three levels of a problem in an organization.
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When you establish deal breakers and you establish standards, right?
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You have a transgression, which is the lowest level, which is someone committed a transgression.
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They didn't do what they were supposed to do, they they missed a deadline, they showed up late for work, um, they are in conflict with a team member and being emotional.
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It doesn't matter.
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They didn't do what they were supposed to do.
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So for an individual transgression, no, you're not going to fire someone, especially if they've established a norm and what that transgression is, it's an exception.
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But when you start looking at cultural norms, right, and core behaviors for the organization, are they aligned with those behaviors?
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Because the question isn't being punitive and sending them to their room for not responding to a client within 24 hours.
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The question is having a conversation with them about aligning on the commitments and priorities and why it's important to do that and why the company values those specific behaviors, and how it ties into the core beliefs, and how it ties into the vision, and how it ties into the strategic goals.
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Because maybe one of the biggest goals for the company is client retention or client existing client growth.
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And then for client retention and existing client growth to be a factor, then customer service things like giving clients peace of mind, answering questions in a timely manner tie into those things.
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Right?
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So that that's that's the challenge because it's not just about being punitive, it's not being nitpicky, it's not looking to fire someone arbitrarily, it's about holding the standards and what is like an intolerable behavior so the company can be successful.
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You know, a lot of the work we do with companies in our culture of excellence model is one of the things that comes up with almost every company we work with is fairness and transparency.
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We live in a world where when people feel wronged and they don't feel like they're being treated fairly, they get very upset.
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Think about if you're in line at an amusement park, you're standing in line, someone cuts in front of you, you're upset.
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That is not something that is quote unquote tolerable in our society.
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That would be looked down on very much in our society.
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So in that moment, you feel wronged.
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Now you have a decision to make, right?
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You can be aggressive and and you know create a scene for the person cutting in front of you.
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You could do that.
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You could be passive and you could say nothing at all, or you could be assertive and say, excuse me, you need to go to the back of the line.
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Uh, we've been waiting here for a while.
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You have those choices and how you want to handle that, but you see there's a standard in our society about not cutting in line.
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It is a norm to not cut in line.
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Do you tolerate when people cut in front of you?
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And my point being that when we feel wronged, we get upset.
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Now, whether we communicate that frustration or we internalize that frustration, that depends.
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But either way, when people feel like they're being treated unfairly, it creates tension and discord in company culture.
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So when you look at what you tolerate and what you don't tolerate, and you allow people to play by a different set of rules, that is an absolute culture crusher.
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So when companies look around and go, well, how come we're behind on our KPIs and how come we're not as productive and as efficient as we once were?
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First place I go is are people being enabled?
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Is there an element of unfairness?
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Are certain managers in different departments allowing people to come in late for work or work from home?
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And then other managers are allowing their team to play by a different set of rules.
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Are certain people getting recognition and appreciation and resources at one part of the company and others are not?
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And then the transparency element comes into play here because it's a double whammy, right?
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Because if people aren't transparent about the decisions, if the executive team and leadership is not transparent about the decisions they make, right, then it creates suspicion, it creates distrust, and then you start to question the fairness.
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And let me let me just say this about fairness.
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It's a very polarizing word.
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I don't live my life in a way where I believe every single person should be treated the exact same way in every situation.
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And and and we know this because the best example of this is salespeople.
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If salespeople generate more money, they get higher bonuses, they get more perks.
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So if you perform at a higher level, you are treated different in sales typically.
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The thing is, though, that is usually transparently communicated up front.
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So there's no suspicion, there's no surprises.
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If you accomplish A, you get B.
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It's put out to the world.
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I see so many companies that are very that lack transparency about what earns raises and promotions.
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And it feels subjective and it feels arbitrary.
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And there's no reason not to be transparent about that.
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Let people know what they need to do.
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And and what happens is when there's a lack of transparency around raises and promotions, companies often get themselves in trouble because what they'll do is if the company's doing really well, they may get higher bonuses or raises one year, and the next year they may not get as high.
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But then a precedent's been established.
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So now, if I got a 10% raise last year and I'm not getting one this year, and you were never told me why I did or didn't get one, now I'm going, well, wait, did am I not doing a good job?
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Or are you dissatisfied with my performance?
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:19.920
Like, and again, it creates all kinds of confusion because of the lack of transparency.
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Now, when you put out your your non-negotiables, when you put out your deal breakers and say, this is how everyone has to behave at this company.
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This is non-negotiable what we expect, right?
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Then the question is, this is where the rubber hits the road.
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Because now one of the biggest challenges I run into is high performers who aren't playing nicely with others.
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Toxic high performers.
00:22:53.359 --> 00:23:04.480
So uh they're they do their job really well, they've been at the company a long time, they're loyal, they're they're invaluable based on the knowledge they keep and have built.
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And now they're not meeting the standards.
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So now what do we do?
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Because we can't really afford to lose them.
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So now we look the other way, or we make exceptions.
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And that starts the downfall because there's a lack of consistency.
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:31.920
You know, one of the things when I've I've talked to different levels of leadership over the years, I've talked to team members, and they've said, what do you want from your leader?
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And there's all kinds of answers, right?
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:39.680
I want a servant leader, I want a leader who makes time to help my development and help my career path.
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:41.200
And the answers go on and on.
00:23:41.359 --> 00:24:06.799
And you know what I think ideally, the number one answer that most people want is they want a leader that's consistent, that's reliable, that's dependable, that's trustworthy, a leader that they can count on because there isn't inconsistency in how people are treated, around fairness, there's no secrets, transparency is out there, and people know what to expect.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:11.279
That's what I think people want more than anything else.
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:15.839
And where the rubber hits the road is this.
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:22.480
If you're buying what I'm selling, and if you agree, no, we have to have deal breakers.
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:24.640
We don't do a good job at our organization.
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:26.480
We tend to enable people.
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:32.480
We tend to look the other way with our high performers or invaluable leaders, right?
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:41.200
If that's if that's you, if you're thinking about that, well, I have an expression I use in coaching, it's called fake problem, real problem, right?
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:47.279
The fake surface level problem is that you're enabling these people and you're not upholding standards.
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:58.640
And not only maybe have you not even come up with a list of deal breakers, even if in your mind you have those deal breakers, have you actually taken the time to communicate them so people know what the deal breakers are?
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:04.720
And then the question is when those standards aren't met, now what?
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:18.960
And the typical path is a write-up, a performance improvement plan, some kind of progressive discipline, key word being discipline.
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.119
I don't like the word discipline.
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:22.400
It triggers people.
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:32.720
And frankly, the second you go down the path of a write-up or a performance improvement plan, okay, it feels punitive.
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:37.839
Now, I get that you may have to for legal and HR and compliance purposes.
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:44.319
And what can we do before that to coach and correct the situation?
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.799
To support what I call behavior substitution.
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:53.519
And this is where this is the real issue on the table.
00:25:53.759 --> 00:26:09.759
Because I don't think, in my experience, and now almost 15 years of doing this, I have come across such a small percentage of leaders at any level that know how to actually coach behavior change.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:31.519
It's very hard to coach behavior change because coaching behavior change, the actual art of coaching is getting people to recognize the impact of their behavior, not because you're telling them, because they recognize and walking them through a coaching process.
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:32.960
And it takes some time.
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:38.319
It can be done, it is done, but very few leaders know how to do that.
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:48.799
So if you were going to uphold the standard, if you weren't gonna take a punitive disciplinary route and you were gonna coach them, what does that look like?
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.000
What does coaching behavior change look like?
00:26:54.720 --> 00:27:09.039
And that's the real issue because I think when it comes down to it, when people try to have conversations, when the executives or leaders try to have conversations to hold people accountable to these standards and deal breakers, are they effective?
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:13.599
Do they even know what that conversation looks like to make it effective?
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:18.160
So here's all the hurdles that have to over be overcome, just to summarize for a minute.
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:29.200
Number one, you have to take the time to come up with a list of deal breakers, behaviors that you will not tolerate to uphold the standards and the vision and the mission of the company.
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:30.160
That's number one.
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:38.480
Number two, you actually have to communicate what those standards are, cascade that messaging down to all levels of the company.
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:42.960
And not just email a list, hey, by the way, these are our deal makers.
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:51.039
Have a town hall, have leadership meetings, have discussions to walk people through, hey, these are what they are, this is how they were picked.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:53.279
This is why we think these are important.
00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:57.680
And by the way, I do retreats with companies all the time where we work these out.
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:19.759
It's very collaborative, it's often the top two levels of leadership, but you have to come up with them, you have to communicate them, you have to communicate them in a collaborative way, and then you have to do the follow-through and hold people accountable to meeting those standards and playing by the rules so it's fair and it's transparent.
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.119
So it seems time consuming.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:24.400
It's not time consuming.
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:26.319
You just need to follow the process.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:38.880
And when we built out this culture of excellence, that was the whole idea behind it is what are the frameworks, what are the systems in place that need to be effective to support a culture of excellence?
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:54.559
And these coaching conversations come down to three non-negotiable questions that have to be asked amidst those coaching conversations.
00:28:54.720 --> 00:29:07.039
Because when someone isn't upholding the standards, whatever those cultural norms are that people are not abiding by or are not aligned with, the first question is you have to understand what's in the way.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.880
Why are they making the choice?
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:10.559
They are making a choice.
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:18.640
If someone doesn't respond to a client within 24 hours, if someone doesn't set clear expectations, they are making a choice.
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:32.559
Now, it could be a skill level they don't have to know how to do something, it could be knowledge, it could be priority, it could be what they believe is capacity, it could be lots of reasons, but it is a choice.
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:39.519
So when someone makes that choice, right, you have to understand why they are making that choice.
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:44.720
What's in the way of them practicing the standard, meeting the standard?
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:46.400
So that's question number one.
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:53.359
Question number two is what does the person propose to meet the standard?
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:59.039
You can give them suggestions, you can tell them what you want them to do, but I want to know what they think.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:06.000
I want to know what they think needs to happen differently and what goals they want to set.
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:07.839
And I want to know if they're motivated.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:12.240
I I absolutely want to know if they're even motivated to meet the standard.
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:12.960
Right?
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:19.359
Because someone can tell you, yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't get to that, but that doesn't mean they're motivated to do it differently.
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:22.000
So I want to know if they're motivated to meet the standard.
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:25.440
And then lastly, I want to know is what's the plan?
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.680
Because they can have a goal, they can have a strategy, right?
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:35.200
But what's the tactical plan to substitute the behavior?
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:41.200
To make sure you respond to those emails in 24 hours, because it's not going to happen magically.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:31:10.160
And as as we tell our clients all the time, if someone you need to change their behavior isn't doing something you need to do, if someone isn't doing something you need them to do at all consistently or well, then there better be a plan, you better know what's in the way, and there better be some kind of goal to measure and success criteria to measure their progress.
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:22.880
So we can have the list, but the question is we don't want to be rigid and go a punitive route right away.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:38.960
We want to know how to coach people, we want to know how to develop people's skills, we want to know how to inspire people to want to change, to see the value in change, to recognize the impact of the change for themselves, for the team, for the company.
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:41.039
The whole thing.
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:56.000
Now, what's interesting is okay, that when you look at things, let's let's talk about two levels of things that are tolerated.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:08.559
And I'm going to use a model with a company I just did, we just work with, and I call these tier one, tier two, tier three standards or deal breakers.
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:27.200
Now, the easiest one, companies never have a problem with this, is what we call dishonesty, falsifying information, and then we get to the bucket that's also in tier well, tier one abuse, retaliation, discrimination, hostility.
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:36.160
So those are the ones where usually when we do this exercise, companies will be like, well, obviously, we don't keep people around if they act like that.
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:39.440
I said, is it that obvious?
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:44.799
I said, are you sure that everyone that's working for you right now hasn't been dishonest about anything?
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:56.079
Could you point to some examples where people either gave half-truths or were dishonest, maybe to cover up a mistake they made, maybe to cover up a mistake someone on their team made?
00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:01.359
Are you sure dishonesty is an automatic termination?
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:07.119
And a couple of the leaders looked at me and said, Well, no, I guess when you put it like that, maybe not.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:15.200
See, what's interesting about dishonesty, there's two buzzwords, too, that that are right in between the tier one and tier two.
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:18.720
One's dishonesty and one's one's disrespect.
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:29.599
And the thing about dishonesty that's interesting to me is if I have someone on my team that covers up a mistake, again, the fake problem is they covered up a mistake.
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:31.359
It was a dishonest act.
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:35.680
But the real problem is why did they why did they make that choice?
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:40.000
Why did they make the choice to cover up a mistake?
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:43.440
I don't think people always lie maliciously.
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:48.000
I and I believe me, I don't enable people, but I think it was a choice.
00:33:48.160 --> 00:34:07.039
And so I want to I want to understand why they felt the need to lie, and I want to find out at a higher level if they're aligned with the core value of honesty, because you know, companies spend millions and billions of dollars on trust and hiring outside consultants to help with trust.
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:18.800
And at the end of the day, right, if trust is the most important foundation with people and people are being dishonest, is it that what they were dishonest about wasn't that big of a deal?
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:24.079
Or was it that if they were dishonest once, they're likely to be dishonest again?
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:26.000
Maybe.
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:32.400
So that's why we we immediately assume, well, it's dishonesty, but not necessarily in disrespect.
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:36.000
Oh my goodness, disrespect gets enabled all the time in companies.
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:39.760
And the reason why is because define disrespect.
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:49.039
You know, in a culture of excellence, you leave nothing open for subjectivity, you leave nothing open for ambiguity.
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:54.559
You can still allow people to have autonomy, you can still allow people to feel empowered.
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:57.760
It's not interfering with autonomy and empowerment.
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:08.000
But we want to remove subjectivity and ambiguity so expectations are clear and people can be held responsible for what those cultural norms are.
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:13.840
And if you don't have a set of norms for respect, then it becomes very subjective.
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:19.440
What feels disrespectful to me might not feel disrespectful to somebody else.
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:29.119
So when you start identifying deal breakers, it's not just a core value word like respect, a fluff word like that.
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.960
You would have to say, hey, this is how we term disrespect.
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:36.800
This is what it looks like, and really define that.
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:51.840
So when you talk about tier one, right, that's a major factor in tier one is the obvious ones abuse, hostility, retaliate, retaliation, falsifying information.
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:56.159
But dishonesty and respect, are they tolerated or are they not?
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:58.480
And what would be the behaviors that do it?
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:03.360
Now I'm going to read you an example for a company we just work with, right?
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:12.960
And what I have them do is they have to actually, when they take something as obvious as dishonesty and falsifying information, they have to answer three questions.
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:29.599
What it looks like if they were violating our standard, what it looks like if it's not, what it isn't, meaning this this isn't violating our standard, and then how do we respond and escalate a situation that happens that way?
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:34.239
And this is the example for dishonesty and falsifying information.
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:55.599
What it looks like is knowingly reporting information or status that isn't accurate, intentionally withholding information to create misleading inform a misleading picture, altering or falsifying records, data, results, hours, quality or compliance or business information.
00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:03.920
Or saying something was completed, reviewed, approved, or communicated when you know it wasn't.
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:12.960
Now, if you listen to all those, there was a key theme in the four of those, and they were all painfully clear expectations.
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:18.559
And the theme was it was intentional, you knew it.
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:29.519
Knowingly, intentionally, um saying something was done, altering like you knew what you were doing, you did it, you knew it.
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:36.400
So those four things, those don't meet the standards of this company and would be firable.
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:58.880
Now, what it isn't, dishonesty and falsifying information, is an honest mistake or misunderstanding, providing information that was believed to be accurate at the time, and correcting it when new facts emerge, changing a recommendation or opinion based on new information, or disagreeing about the interpretation of data.
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:02.559
That is not dishonesty and falsifying information.
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:20.880
And the the how we respond stage, first you default to curiosity and suspend judgment by clarifying and verifying the facts, address it directly with the individual, document, and then if it's what this looks like, it's termination.
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:26.000
So that's that's as clear as it gets.
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:31.920
That is as clear as it gets when it comes to deal breakers.
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:38.239
Now, the one other one I want to cover is that's an obvious one, okay?
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:48.079
But then here's one that's way more likely to be ambiguous, and it's talking about people instead of to them gossip.
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:51.360
Do we tolerate gossip in our culture?
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:53.519
Nobody wants it.
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:59.039
Everybody knows it's bad, but what would we do if we found someone gossiping?
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.039
Talking about people instead of to them.
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:07.840
Now keep in mind, in this case, gossip is also about being willing to have difficult conversations, right?
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:10.320
Because talking to them, not around them.
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:12.719
So again, three-part process.
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:14.159
What does it look like?
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:15.440
What is it not?
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:17.199
And how do we respond?
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:45.519
And so what it looks like is spreading information about someone's performance or character that you know is inaccurate, critiquing someone's work when they're not present to defend it or attempt to resolve it, creating side conversations intended to damage someone's credibility or reputation, or repeatedly complaining about an individual to peers without attempting to resolve the issue through the appropriate channel.
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:48.079
So those are four examples of what it looks like.
00:39:48.239 --> 00:40:13.039
What it isn't is a manager discussing performance concerns with HR or another leader, giving legitimate feedback to someone's manager when that person is not your direct report, escalating a concern through the appropriate management, asking a trusted leader for advice, reporting harassment, safety, compliance, ethical, or other legitimate concerns, or constructively discussing a business issue.
00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:15.039
So how do we respond?
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:24.719
Clarify and verify the facts, address it with the individual, document, set the standard, correct, and coach.
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:43.840
So I often make the point that one of the most emotionally agile things you can do is recognize you have choices, and recognize that when you think you only have two, you almost always have three or more.
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:50.159
So when you hear me read off these deal breakers, we've got what it looks like, what it isn't.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:52.159
So what are the choices?
00:40:52.480 --> 00:41:13.519
If someone is violating a standard, if you said it's something that's a deal breaker and you won't tolerate, you have to go the Punit route, whether that's a write-up, whether that's going to a performance improvement plan, which don't even get me started because I hate that term, or terminating them immediately, right?
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:17.039
It could be any of those, depending on what you've had escalation.
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:19.679
But I want to reinforce something here.
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.000
It's not about whether it's automatically firable.
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:34.480
It what it's about is if it's not meeting a standard, there has to be a clear disciplinary path and it has to be followed and it has to be consistent.
00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:41.199
And can't be one leader follows it and one leader doesn't follow it, because then it's not a standard, it's a preference.
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:51.519
So choice number one is to take them through the disciplinary path using any of those options depending on the severity of the issue and depending on your culture.
00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:06.400
Choice number two is if it's if they're doing something that is not meeting the standard, but it wasn't intentional, it wasn't purposeful, it doesn't meet the criteria, then, like we just read, there's a coaching opportunity.
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:12.800
There's a chance to set the standard, there's a chance to align on those expectations.
00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:18.320
So there's there's the coaching opportunity there as a way to solve the problem.
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:25.840
And then the third thing to do, of course, is to do nothing at all and just avoid, enable, and not have the conversation.
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:28.960
So you got three choices, right?
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:35.440
And two of the three can work situationally, but they've got to be acted on.
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:48.800
And every time you have an employee that doesn't meet the standard, a leader, a team member, and you look the other way, there is no standard.
00:42:52.239 --> 00:43:03.679
So as you think about this, as you think about the importance of deal breakers, here's where I believe the starting point is, right?
00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:28.320
If you are going to, as a result of listening to this podcast, whether you're a CEO, a founder, an owner leading a team, whether you're a small business, whether you're a mid-level manager who wants to work with your own team, the first thing is, because one of the things I like to talk about is you can create a subculture, right?
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:29.840
It's not optimal, right?
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:38.400
Because we want the culture, you know, we want the culture to be consistent, right?
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:51.119
But if you wanted to create a subculture to start the process, to break the chain, the first thing to do is to go through this exercise to identify what are your list of deal breakers.
00:43:51.840 --> 00:44:03.679
And this company's list, just to just so you know, they had poor communication, which is too vague and needed to be defined, lack of accountability or ownership, which again needed to be defined with cultural norms, right?
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:12.639
So they came up with a list of four and walked through this exercise of what it looks like, what it isn't, and how to how to escalate and solve the problem when it comes up.
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:32.239
So you could go through the exercise of listing what those deal breakers are for each one, what it is, what it isn't, how it would escalate to set those clear expectations, and then come up with how do you communicate that to the team and how do you follow through to make sure it's consistently being acted on.
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:36.880
Those are four simple steps that you could take to put this into practice.
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:41.679
I mean, you could do this activity with your kids, right?
00:44:44.000 --> 00:45:04.639
So for us, culture of excellence is about standards, it's about what we will tolerate, what we won't tolerate, it's about coaching people to shift their mindsets and to improve their behavioral performance.
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:07.760
Like that's a big part of the culture of excellence.
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:12.400
It's about norms, not exceptions, it's about norms, not exceptions.
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:17.840
We understand exceptions happen, but we have to establish what those cultural norms are.
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:22.400
We have to establish what you tolerate and what you won't tolerate.
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:26.559
Look, if you're in a relationship with a partner, it's no different.
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:33.920
Whether you actually verbalize it to your partner, to yourself, to each other, you you you it's built in.
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:36.800
There's things you tolerate, there's things you won't tolerate.
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:39.840
It's just a question of whether they're verbalized or not.
00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:45.280
You know, if you if you said to your partner, what do you think my list of deal breakers are?
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:46.559
Could they tell you the list?
00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:47.119
Maybe.
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:50.960
I bet they come up with at least some of them, and vice versa.
00:45:51.440 --> 00:46:03.519
But whether it's a personal relationship, a professional relationship, a company culture, really establishing what you'll tolerate, what you won't, and what those standards are are critical.
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:21.199
So if you want to know more information on how to build out deal breakers, how to uh leverage a culture of excellence blueprint, please feel free to reach out to us at uh mindsetgo.com.
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:25.440
And otherwise, uh, this is Mark Altman for another edition of i Communicate.
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:26.880
We'll see you next time.
