Joy Is a Performance Strategy I Christine Howe & Cindy Garrard

Christine Howe: Such a stressful job. I was like, okay, gonna retire at 40. Like I said that in my 20s and my 30s, and I got to 40, and I was like, okay, I'll r retire at 45. I just felt like I was losing a large piece of who I was because of the stress. I would exhaust myself so much mentally that I would have zero capacity to do anything when I got home. I couldn't even like read. I had like nothing left for the most important people in my life. I think you have to get back your original design and doing something that you love, like setting aside time. I call it the four hour advantage. Where if you're working 40 to 50 hours a week, if you block four hours of your time in your month, that's strictly for something that is it's completely self-care. It's something you want to do. The world tells you it's unproductive. You could be making this, you could be getting ahead of your schedule. But if you do something that is completely Completely designed that's something that you love from your youth. Your brain, your body, your mind, your soul, like everything gets an exhale, and you're like, huh. Like this something that's important. It's like you get back to like this, you know, I don't have to burn at both ends. Like it brings something within you of your original design to the forefront of your thinking. Welcome to Hyper Focus and High Performance with Christine Howe. Where we explore how you can work with your brain, build your dreams, and live on purpose with more clarity, creativity, and presence. Cindy, thank you so much for joining me today on the Hyper Focus and High Performance Podcast. I'm so happy you're here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. my goodness. So Cindy and I have met and I think the first day that we met, we spent the entire day laughing together. And so When you say I like to bring a little fun into whatever I'm doing. You do. And what I love about that is that your mission is just aligned with who you are. And you truly, number one, love to bring joy. And number two, I'm going to add that you bring targeted insights that fit the person in front of you with precision. There were certain things that you said to me that day. When you spoke, it was precise and exactly what I needed to hear. And so that is the person that I'm bringing to everyone listening here, Cindy Gerard. And so I'm very grateful to have you here with this mission of bringing high performers from depletion to joy. And so I I like to start a lot of my conversations in a place I don't know that a lot of people do, but it's one of my favorite questions that I've asked for about 20 years. What were you like when you were eight years old? So welcome to my podcast where I ask the question. What were you like, Cindy, when you were eight? So I so I have a funny story about me actually when I was eight years old. So I was just born with a lot of confidence. And this girl was leaving the hairdresser and she had her hair really short. And I told my mom, I go, I I love her haircut so cute. Get my haircut short. And my mom's like, I don't know if that's gonna look the same on you. And I was like, That's what I want. So I guess she just like whatever, didn't feel like argue with me. And so I got this really short haircut. And we went to and I had bucked teeth. And so when we w were going to California to visit some cousins and I just knew that I was gonna be discovered in Hollywood, that they were just gonna so there's all these pictures of me with this like horrible haircut. These like buck teeth, and I'm like posing like on like Hollywood Boulevard while like all the stars just like waiting for someone to discover me. I was not discovered, but yeah, so highly confident with a bare bad haircut. That's where I was at eight. I love that story. That is so good. And so this is the fun thing about you is that you are confident and you don't hide it. Like you just kinda walk around and you're like, I'm here. I'm a high performer. I mean, I don't I just really feel that God like designed me this way for whatever reason. And I think the more that people get comfortable in who God designed them to be, the easier their life is. And so but what I was gonna say is that it's interesting you Talk about eight years old because in my speech that I do, my keynote speech, is I have people like close their eyes and I have them go back to their eight-year-old self. wow. Yeah. That's awesome. Why did you choose to do that? You know, it really came to me. I was really focusing on where I felt because when I was eight years old, I loved to choreograph dance and stuff like with my cousins and with my friends. And so when my friend asked me to choreograph a dance for her team, an old trillion team, like something in my brain like switched. It was like I had gone back to a place of youth. I feel like eight years old is kind of, you know, you're old enough to kind of understand things, but you're still like free to, you know, like can I you like you think you can still sing? Everyone thinks they can dance. Everyone thinks they're smart. Everyone thinks they're funny. And so I even thought about putting my as like my description on my Instagram as your third grade best friend from recess. So I don't know. There's something I I don't know. There's just I think there's just a innocence and kind of before you like know any better, if that makes sense. And where you're like, yeah, like you were in a place of innocence and you're not really like aware of everything else yet. Like what what are people wearing or, you know, it's just a great, I don't I don't know, it literally came to me. So yeah. It seems to be just an intuitively pure picture of who a person is before changing to conform to what people want you to be. So I love that. I think you and I intuitively found the same age. That's really fun. I love it. It is fun. And I like the picture of the third grade best friend. I feel like, you know, we the first day that we met It felt like wait, this is a friend. It felt you felt like a third grade best friend. Like all time. Yeah. It's so good. Like I felt like I had found I was like I I literally went home and told my kids, I made a new friend today. It's nice to make new friends, even in your forties. It is. And I don't know that I've ever used that term or that phrase, you know, in the last decade. I don't think I've ever gone home and said, I made a new friend today. I really feel like we have to get back to that. Like Going somewhere like meeting a new friend. Like not k you know, people kind of like, who are you? Where are you from? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like I think I hate to say this, but a lot gets lost in the time that's spent on like shallow conversation. And so I am naturally drawn to people. I love people. And so I just think that I feel at ease when I meet new people. I don't So I I enjoyed meeting you. I thought it was fun. Yeah, I agree. So okay, let's get into your story about your career. And you spent years as one of the top producers in commission sales, which is so fun. You took that confidence into sales. So that was a natural win for you and your personality. And you earned over eight hundred thousand dollars a year, which I mean, what percentage of women can say that they've done that? Very few. If you know the number, you can say it now. Do you know? I don't know the number. It's it's I know it's not a I know it's not a lot. Yeah. I don't think that a lot of women can say that or people can say that. But what did that success look like from the outside? Well, start there. What did it look like to you? Like what was happening in in the world around you? What if the answer to overwhelm isn't pushing harder, but stepping back? Hi, I'm Christine Howe. I am a licensed professional counselor, turned coach, and creator of Think Time, the first whole brain planner. If you have a visionary, creative ADHD brain, you probably don't have a shortage of ideas. You have too many things competing for your attention at once. And when everything feels important, it's hard to see what matters most. You don't need more discipline, you don't need more time. You need a way to work with your brain instead of against it. That's why I created the Think Time Quarterly Reset. In a half-day workshop, I'll walk you through my whole brain neuroplanning process, engaging the visual creative strengths of your brain before we make the plan. First, I'll guide you to relax your body to calm your mind. Then we'll review. What are you grateful for? What's working? What's not? And then we'll dream. Because most people think that they struggle with distraction when what they really struggle with is clear direction. Then we'll decide what matters most in the season, how can you get there faster and easier? Turning it into a plan you can actually do with rejuvenating rhythms, dream routines, and actions that fit your real life. You'll leave knowing what matters, what deserves your attention. And what to do next. But the real payoff isn't just getting more of the right things done in less time. It's being able to move your dreams forward without missing your life while you're building them. More clarity, more momentum, more presence. You deserve to be present in your own life. Join me for the Think Time Quarterly Reset. Build your dreams without burning. Well, achievement's one of my strengths. Well, it's number one of my strengths. So I honestly I always felt that I could be like number one. So it was always like a goal for me. Like as soon as I started, I wanted to be number one. it took me probably longer than I thought that it would. I was in a male dominated industry in the banking field. And so from the outside looking in, I think people always perceived me because I was still able because I had assistants that handled a lot of things for me. I was still able to be all the places that I was supposed to be, like with my children and there for my husband. And so I think from the outside looking in, I think people and I've had people tell me tell me this for like a couple of years. I was like, that's so weird. Is that real compact like I had everything together. Like I had this like, you know, and and I had in one week had two girls say to me, like, well you have it all together. You don't understand. And I was like, huh? So I told my husband, I was like, so and so and so and so this week told me that I have it all together and like I don't have any problems and all stuff. And I said, Well, that's untrue. I was like, Why do you think they think that? He goes, It might be your social media. And I said, Well, everybody knows social media is public relations for their family. And Jeff goes, Not everybody knows that. And so literally, like the next week, I got in a fight with him on stay on a date and I put it on my social media. I was like, Yeah, I was like, Hey, like. This is a picture of us before we argued for an hour and a half. And these are the reasons why I'm just being selfish. I'm stressed out. Da da da da. You guys are attacking him. And so I put it like all out there in the social media and everybody was like, I can't believe you did that. It's so like, keep it real, keep it real. And I'm like, yeah, like everybody has problems and struggles that they might not advertise, but we all do. And I think sometimes from the outside looking in, it seems, I think. the world is like that. Like they see like, well, they have it all together or they have it all together. And everybody has struggles. Everybody has pain points. And, you know, I don't know. So I think from the outside looking in, it definitely looked kind of like I had all my ducks in a row. And some of them I did, but I was all felt like I was like being torn about. Like what's right, what's wrong? What's this? Like am I am I really doing what God wants me to do? So yeah. So from the outside looking, I think it looked, you know, pretty picturesque. Yeah, I when you're talking, I think you could have chosen a couple of different responses to that feedback. You could have been like, Whew, I'm glad it looks like I have it together because I'm trying to hide. And that's an option. I think that's one that a lot of people choose. But you chose a different path. And that was, I want to be authentic and truthful. And I I think I'm almost tell if this is true, if this rings true for you, but I'm wondering. If that made you feel like you were distant from the people that you loved who seemed to think like she doesn't understand because she has it all together. W were you trying to close the gap between you and the people who were telling you that? Or what was the the need to I need to fix this? Like what were you feeling inside when you made the choice to change the way that you were showing up on social media? I just felt that, you know, I've I've learned through like different Bible studies and like Sunday school classes and stuff like that. I think it's refreshing when people are really raw about what they're struggling with. And to me it's like a breath of fresh air. And I just thought, you know, I didn't want to portray that my life is a certain way and that people should look at me and be like, well, she's got her because I know they do that. It's like a comparison that and I just don't believe in that. I don't believe in comparing yourself to other people. I think it's a waste of time. The precious time and energy that we have. So I just, I don't know. I just felt like that was the right thing to do at the time. I felt like, you know, my husband I was like, why do you think they think that? Like I was kind of like, very confused. And and and he's like, well, it's probably social media. And I'm like, well, it's PR. And he's like, well, not everybody understands that. And I'm like, so I just felt like I needed to not present a certain facade that I had my life In this perfect bow, because no one does and it doesn't exist. I love that. I think that was a real choice and it showed your character in that moment and your love for others because there is a place for being able to put the mask on to cover the struggles, to appear that you have it together, and especially when you're that successful to keep that image on. And I think sometimes people keep the mask on so long until they just can't. And that's when you have these big surprises and these big uncovers of that's what was going on this whole time. We had no idea. And now this isn't where I was planning to take this conversation, but in social atmospheres, there's actually a higher suicide rate amongst certain groups. I believe it. And I think this dynamic can be part of it. It's like I can't show up. I can't be real. You know, I have to keep it all together because they think I have it all together. And speaking out I'm human, I think is one of the most powerful things that we can do to connect with each other and to be real. And also to help people when they are struggling to not feel alone in that struggle. So I like the picture of breath of fresh air because that's how I feel when someone else shares their struggles, who's maybe someone I respect or someone I'd like to be like. And they say, man, I blew it. And I had to go repair with my, you know, name relationship that you're wanting to deal with. But I, you know, spouse, kids, boss, you know, teammate, it could be anybody. You know, you clearly have a lot of things going for you. You had you had the structure set up, you had people supporting you, you had your own skill set, and you had your inner competition of like, I want to be the best. So that it was working, but you're not superhuman. And I think I love to look into the the role of shame in Our actions sometimes. And when we say I'm human, it allows like a healthy, you know, when we say I messed up, we put that shame out there in a healthy way to say I'm human, I'm limited. And so thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. So we looked at the outside and the way it looked. On the inside, you've already said it felt like there was a break between the outside and the inside. What else was going on on the inside that you noticed? My career field was part in the banking was of Very, very high stress, lot of deadlines, a lot of red tape, a lot of federal regulations, like every day. You're it's very hard, highly stressful work. And I felt like I had the ability to kind of compartmentalize it. And when it started to seep into like my personal life, I could start to tell where it was like where it started to kind of like flow over. And I just started to be not as happy as I am as a natural person. I wasn't as happy. I had a lot less patience for people, even for things that weren't of any significance. I feel like I did a pretty good job making my daughters a very top priority. But I think my husband probably got some of, you know, the shaft of that. He was always cause I was like, Man, you know, he's like, Why do you think you do it? Why do you think you do your career? And I'm like, Well, 'cause of the money. He's like, mm, I don't know, Cindy. He's like, I don't know. Cause I kept saying 'cause it's such a stressful job. I was like, okay, I'm gonna retire at forty. Like I said that in my twenties and my thirties, and I got to forty and I was like, Okay, I'll r retire at forty five. I kept like telling myself but I felt I just felt like I was losing like a large piece of who I was because of the stress. And then but it would just like I would package it and like put it out somewhere else. And unfortunately most of the time it was against my husband because he has like the mental fortitude of like a king. So I just kind of gave he kind he kind of got a lot of the brunt of that. But he also I think was understanding of where I was and somehow just try to look at it objectively. I don't think I'm not saying it he I didn't ever like hurt his feelings. I just felt like he probably got a brunt of the stress. And I don't know, I just felt like there was just things where I would exhaust myself so much mentally that I would have zero capacity to do anything when I got home. Besides eat like that was it. Like I could eat. I couldn't even like read. I had like nothing left for the most important Important people in my life. How long did that go on? I would say when it got probably the worst was probably about 18 months. And then I just started like realizing this. I'm like, okay, this is the peak of this. Like, this is gonna be like I started to see things. And like in the they were started changing like product offer and stuff like that. And I started seeing the writing on the wall, like before everybody else. saw and I was like, hey, guys. And I would start telling like other guys that were like competitors within the company. I'm like, this doesn't, this doesn't look right, doesn't smell right. And then I started to realize I was like, okay, God just gave me some things. Like I had a really great team of of people that I worked with. And probably about six months. So this is probably about five years ago, about six months, I was like looking around my team of people, like the private banker, commercial banker, other residential bankers, wealth people and all that. And I just remember looking around and being like, This is the height of this team dynamic. Like this energy, like everybody being like so happy, everybody's as flowing. I was like, this is it. Like I'm gonna enjoy this because this will eventually deteriorate. And so just certain things sort of coming. I was like, okay, well, I've already kind of I always say, you know, retire your jersey when you're on top. But my girlfriend and I didn't say this. We're like dating guys. We're like, like, you gotta retire jersey, girl, you're on top. And so can't be, you know, stop retiring before then. And so I just felt like the money that the conversation that I made, my the team people that I was gonna bond with and love in that type of environment, what I had hit the pinnacle. So then it was kinda like what's gonna happen on the next chapter, if that makes sense. Yeah. So you became open. So you had this idea, I'm gonna retire at forty. Then it came and then you weren't ready to let go. But you started looking at things a little differently. You started seeing this team like this is great. And it wasn't like this is great and I'm gonna hold on to it with everything I have, but you saw this is great and this is the peak. That is a fascinating view. Were there a couple things that you saw that predicted that it might not last forever? Was it that you'd seen people cycle through good seasons, or were you seeing like little yellow flags in some of the dynamics? I'd love To introduce you to something I created specifically for brains like yours. Think Time Membership is a guided neuroplanning membership designed to help you align with your design, work with your brain, and build your dreams with more clarity, confidence, creativity, and presence. Instead of forcing yourself into systems that don't fit you, you'll learn how to plan in the native, creative language of your brain using my neuroplanning framework. Love your design, then dream. Decide, do, review. Inside the membership, you'll join a community of growth-oriented leaders for weekly, monthly, quarterly, and annual guided planning experiences. So you'll never have to figure it out all alone. Your membership also includes access to the Think Time Neuro Planner, a whole brain, visual planning system designed to help you harness the strengths of your mind instead of constantly fighting against it. And when you join, you'll receive access to the Neuroplanning course and tutorials, planning tools and templates, live group coaching, monthly QA, and a live onboarding session so you can begin to use the system right away. If you're ready to increase your opportunity to experience more clarity, calm, confidence, creativity, meaningful productivity, and presence while getting more of the right things done in less time with peace. Not pressure, visit think dash time.com/slash podcast. I'd love to help you build a life that works with your brain, aligns with your design, and reflects what matters most. You know, I just can remember one time when I was in college and we all all my guy friends and all my girlfriends, we all worked at in Auburn at the same cheeseburger place called Cheeburger Cheeseburger. I don't sell it there anymore. But we all worked there and I remember like we were always having like so much fun when we worked together, like at the shift would fly by. That's the best way for me to put it. Our shift would fly by. And so we would work like, you know, seven hours together, but it felt like 45 minutes. We always had so much fun. Everybody was like good friends. And I remember like this one guy was like, I'm thinking about working here, blah, blah, blah. And we're kind like a family. And then I could remember like one person leaving and I was like, I just remember thinking to myself, like, this is as good as this team's gonna get. And I was just sitting there like in this meeting and I was like, this is as good as it's gonna get. Like and I just knew that where You know, and it was time for and I hated to be the one, but it was my call to be the first one to leave. Wow. That's powerful. That's a powerful moment. And so when you left, you did some reflection on yourself and where you were gonna go next. Am I right? So I felt called to completely resign out of banking. And it w even though I had prayed for years that God would give me something more naturally me, that's something that 'Cause I in banking I wasn't good at math. Like I was always working against the grain. I like double did everything on my calculator, like double checked everything where like everybody else would like do it in their head. And so it just was something that was really unnaturally me. And I had to work so much harder to be successful in it. And so when I prayed that God would give me something different, I prayed that it would be very naturally me and I wouldn't have to go against the grain. And so I read the book Halftime by Bob Buford. And then there's a woman's book, Women at Halftime. By Carolyn Castleware Hux. And I just read it and I got on a call and I got in this like group coaching. And this lady called me and she just kind of interviewed me and she's like, Hey, I feel like you might be a candidate for a cohort group where people are leaving kind of like a crossroads of their career. They don't know if they're supposed to stay in their career or if God's calling them somewhere else. And kind of helped them transition and like discover what God has for them. And so it's out of Dallas. And I was in that program for a year. And I would not be where I am today without that institute and all the wisdom that was shared. So the guy, Bob Beaufort, there's Peter Drucker was his coach. And then I got a coach who was phenomenal. And she really helped just guide me along and helped me really Find my new calling and kind of stepping into that with probably a little more confidence than I had naturally, because I was taking this huge leap and none of it made sense. But I knew that God had given me the people who had walked that path before. And she had coached probably several people that had made several mistakes. And so I just felt like I was being guided with wisdom. Through the transition and it changed my life, really. You know, I didn't see this this point coming, but your your life was changed by having a coach. a hundred and fifty percent. Because it's funny, my husband actually recommended that I get a coach in my banking career. And I admit this, and I think I said this to you with time when we were at BBG. I was like, I laughed. I was like, what do I need a coach for? I'm like, I'm the best. I'm like, I'm the best. What do I need a coach for? I'm just saying I think that it would benefit you. So it completely changed my life. And, you know, I got my education through the professional coaching Chris Institute, because that's where she got her education. I just really feel that I was very resistant to it at first because I felt like that people don't listen. Like you can help them as much as, you know, in my career I've learned that. They say they want help, but they usually don't make changes, even if it's for the better. And so I was like, I don't I was like, I don't want to coach people. I was like, people don't even listen. I was like, that would never want to do that. And then when I felt like God calling me to do it, I was like, my gosh. It's like anytime that I say, like, I'm not gonna do this, I'm not gonna do that, he's like, You're gonna do it. So, but it's been really rewarding and you know, it's actually really like a lot of fun because The other day this guy said something to me and it really made me he's like, You have this natural knack to go like super deep. And like when he said that to me, I like pictured myself like holding somebody's hand and like diving deep into the water and like the treasure's like their true self and like we go and like open the treasure box, like together. And so, but like he wouldn't jump if I wasn't there, like holding his hand, if that makes sense. Yeah. I love that. That's That's beautiful. And so it's neat too that you were not when it was suggested to you to get a coach, you were resistant at the beginning. Yeah. So you can kind of help people break through, I'm assuming, that resistance to getting a coach, especially for high performers, because everyone got to where they are because they're doing a lot of good things. And so you you get there. And I I think this is one of the the things I'm noticing as I'm moving into the same space with different kinds of high performers, but People don't want to let go of what they've developed, you know? And so it's it's kind of like keeping what's working while being open to what could actually make what's working better. I think that's a really hard dynamic to walk someone through. It is. And that's the whole, you know, the title of my keynote is Joy is a performance strategy, like how to thrive alongside success. Because people don't want to let go of success. They just sometimes have to look at, things differently and you usually the top 1% has the choice. Like one thing that I have them do is I have them walk through what's called the Thrive Test. It's like they get to choose kind of and discern who they work with. And it is a story as days is a day is long. Like there are certain people and clients that literally suck the life out of you. But the compensation is so high that it's really hard to not, you know, not take on that. And so for you know, for me, like I literally had an example, like it's these two people. They're both men, they're both equally kind of what call a PETA, a pain in the, you know, that the same amount of commission, same amount of work, but one was, even though super high maids, type A, perfectionist, all the things, they both were that. But one just was so stressed out all the time that like his stress like drained. But there are some people that literally will, and I knew that like he had a client. That always drained him. So he was always operating. And so it's like if people can just cut off that, like discern like this is not something that is fueling me and filling me up. And all it is is taking from me. If they let that go, they can make space for two clients that are not like it's a simple math. But people get so used to kind of taking on. for the compensation, it's just it's so hard to unlearn that, but it really does, it's where a large majority of people's stress and discontentment in their career comes from. And it's something they choose based on money. So it's like, how do we recalibrate how we decide who we work with? Where do you measure it differently? You know, like where's the measurement where it's not money? I love that. Th this ties really well into my neuroscience nerdy part because if you're stressed, I always say a stressed brain is not your best brain. And so what you're saying is you're building into decreasing stress in the work zone. So I I pull up my brain all the time and I'm like, the amygdala's right here. And this is like this is the part that goes down to your body, like spinal cord and all the things, base functions like breathing, heart rate. And then these are the executive functions that where performance lies, basically. So these are the executive functions where Performance lies. And so when we're stressed, it basically knocks off your best thinking. So it's not worth it. Because it's not worth it. It's inhibiting your performance. And that makes so much sense. And that is why joy is a performance strategy. That is beautifully said. So how did you discover that in your own life? How did you get to that point where you realized joy was the key? Well, I had a friend who called me and asked me if I'd choreograph a dance for her peewee cheer team. And I literally said sure. And when I said it, I was like, I didn't say that. It was almost like the hoy spirit spoke for me because there's no way. Cause I got the phone and I was like, what? I have like no capacity. Why would I do that? Da-da-da. And but I had already said yes and I just adore her. But anyway, so like the next day I'm like in on my side porch, like writing stuff out and like listening to, you know, I was like picking music for her and stuff. And something happened where I like, like I'm doing something that is completely like there's no I can't gain it all from this output. I'm using a totally different side of my brain. I'm doing something that I love from my youth. And it's actually like creating something in my brain where I'm starting to see things and feel things in a clearer way. It's like almost like you have to go back, I know to get like all biblical, but it's like almost you have to go back to like the garden when before there's all this stuff about you know all the worldly things telling you who you are, what you're supposed to be, and all those things. It just something just changed in me. And I was like, my gosh, this is so like I'm having so much fun. And this is the beauty of it. Even though it had been, I was probably at the time I was maybe like 43. The last time I choreographed a dance, I was like 19. And so, but it was like, it was like getting on a bicycle. And so th that's where I think you have to get back to your original design and doing something that you love, like setting aside time. I call it the four hour advantage, where if you're working 40 to 50 hours a week, if you block four hours of your time in your month, that's strictly for something that is it's completely self care. It's something you want to do. It doesn't make you know, the world tells you it's unproductive. You could be making this, you could be Getting ahead of your schedule. But if you do something that is completely designed, that's something that you love from your youth, your brain, your body, your mind, your soul, like everything gets this kind of exhale. Like it gets an exhale, and you're like, huh. Like this stuff isn't important. It's like you get back to like this, you know, I don't have to burn at both ends. Like it brings something within you of your original design to the forefront of your thinking. So it helps you prioritize differently. But I mean, it happened by I you know, obviously by divine encounter through a friend, but it worked. So is this did you say four hours a month or four hours a week? Four hours a month. Four hours a month. Yes. Okay. I love that. That is a beautiful. A beautiful just habit and it's doable. I was I was trying to weigh like which one two percent. It's two percent. Okay. It's two it's literally two percent of your work. And that sounds fun to plan out. Like what do I love to do? You look forward to it and it's my memory. It's a four hour block though. You can't people are like, well, I'm gonna divide it up. I'm like, it's not like a to do list. It's literally something you get to look forward to, it's something you get to plan. It's only for you. There's no output. I highly recommend there's no device. So it has to be something you don't need your phone for. Or you like if you're gonna go ice skating, you'd put it in the locker. Like you're out, you tell your assistant or your team or whatever, I'm gonna be unavailable for these four hours. And and it's funny because it really can help something such a small habit can really help change a lot of perspective. Which is what a lot of us need. The top ultra performers. Yes. On on achievement and doing and because it's amazing if you're a top performer, like what you can do. It's amazing like how you can operate on fumes, like what your body and your brain can actually accomplish because the adrenaline is enough to keep but I mean it does eventually start to affect people's health. That's where the rubber hits the road and if you don't incorporate stuff to take care of yourself, not just your body, But like your mind, your soul, all those things, like it's sad. It's a total freaking waste of your talent that God's given you. And I'm pretty passionate about it. I love it. I feel like there is a clarity at our age. I think we're somewhere we're somewhere close to the same age, but there's a shift when we're looking forward now. Maybe we thought we were invincible in our twenties and our thirties. But now that we're in our 40s, you know, there are some aches and pains and things. It's like, you know, I twisted my ankle a couple months ago. It has completely changed how I can move. Like I just finally went on a walk for the first time last week. And I was like, so happy I can finally walk again. I've done a lot of workouts just working around my inability to put a lot of pressure on my ankle. And so things like that are happening where, you know, I'm seeing my humanity, my need to build into myself. To make the long haul and it becomes, you know, we we've known results matter. And we started to recognize that relationships matter. And I think what you're talking about is this resilience piece, this building back into the person and aligning with who am I, so that this performance can make it for the long haul. That has to flow back into the relationships and the results. You know, you're showing up as a better person for your relationships, showing up as a better person. with, you know, neuroscience wise, an aligned brain to to bring your best performance and make your best decisions. So yeah, I I feel like you really hit the hidden cost of high performance. It's truly this depletion that is wearing them down and keeping them from the best. So if they're running on fumes, they're not getting their best results. They're not. They're not. But they can't slow down enough to realize it. So, you know, I was talking to somebody the other day. very, very intelligent. And he said, and he's building, he's going from he's now entering like an entrepreneurial period of his life. And as friend told him, like you can build a business that you absolutely love, or you can build a business that you absolutely hate. It's gonna take the same amount of work. So it's like when are you gonna trade yourself for like results? You know, I really don't feel like it's as much in other cultures, but definitely in the American culture it is. Bigger, better, more. And I think that there's a lot of starting this young guy at the gym today, he's like tw I don't know, he's definitely in his twenties. And he's like he's a joy that he's he's a front desk guy and I like to give him hard time. And today he's I says I'm like get back to work or something. He's like, I'm watching this video about this like funny thing. And I was like, real productive or so I was giving him a hard time. He's like, I'm trying to like still be able to move when I'm fifty. And I was like, you know what? Like, good for you. Like he it was just funny that he was like, I don't have to, you know, I think that some of the other generations are learning that. and it 'cause I think they're seeing other, you know, other people that like you said, like in this upper crust, like there's a lot of in the you know, upper class, there's a lot of discontent and you know, it's like you achieve certain things but nothing fills you. I mean, I've I've seen it A hundred times. And then and I just I think it's our duty to let others know that we're not designed. Like God didn't design us to be running on fumes all the time. Like that's why people get sick. That's why there's, you know, things that happen. It's like we're not designed to to crash and burn and get up and dust ourselves off and keep flying. Like that's like kind of how. the high performers operate. And so when they actually take the time to like reset is something that you can't even put it in like words, what it does. In the height of my career, I would always still, when I went on vacation, I would leave my phone. I would not bring my phone on vacation. Because I would set people like, I can't believe you do that. God. yeah, we got a Dessel bowl. yeah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you know what? If I can't even enjoy the fruits of my labor with my family, like what's the point? Yeah. Like what, like what? Like what? Why? Like, why am I even like working if I can't even like enjoy my vacation? You know, and people, I mean, I've been on mission trips. I've been on mission trips in other countries. And people are working. And I don't judge them. I'm just kind of like, man, like you're missing out. Yeah. You know, like I know this. Gentleman probably, you know, could offload some of that stuff, but he's not a life or death guy. He's a financial guy. And I'm thinking to myself, like, I know somebody else can handle that for you. Like you don't have a friend in the office that can handle some stuff for you, like while you're gone. It's just the working on vacation thing is it's tragic. Yeah. It is I think of it like plugging yourself into the wall, right? Like you're not gonna, I don't know. you need to fully charge the battery so you can get back. And if you don't fully charge the battery, then you come back with a half battery and you can't really function the way you need to. Here's the thing I'm hearing with what you're saying. You're saying not only joy, but also alignment. And it puts in my in my head the image of a train with tracks. And how, you know, this was such when the train came out, it was such a novel invention. And if the train tracks are misaligned it crashes. It like everything is going to not work. It's not going to only be inefficient. It's going to have a massive collapse. And so this like tapping into who you really are, even just one time a month, is so doable for the ultra performers who don't want to take that break, who are used to pushing through. So I love that you touched on joy being that energy, on alignment being the direction and it's solid moving forward. What is something that you've seen when you're working with clients and they're moving from depletion to joy? Can you give us a picture of that transformation? What are you seeing? So at first there is I'd say a little bit of kind of like resistance, like more of a denial of where they are because they've been operating in that space for so long. A lot of times, like sometimes I get hired for like their team. Like not for them, but for the team. 'Cause you know, they don't need to catch them like me. And so kind of do like some team dynamic synergy, making sure like everybody's capacity, you know, do some work in genius assessments, making sure that everybody's kind of working, the things that they're naturally inclined to do well at. And, you know, it takes a few breakthroughs. You know, you can't really like start with, you're d you know, you you just tell what happens too is you kind of see them go from like, I don't I'm good, everything's working, you know, it doesn't matter. I'm built different. I can work, you know, twelve hours a day and it'd not be enough. But you could see how even though they're highly intelligent and they're highly driven, well, just as a from a coaching standpoint, you can kind of see their blind spots pretty clearly. And so it's really kind of helping them you see them, it's hard to explain, but you kind of see them have breakthroughs. And it could be something they say, it could like their posture, like they didn't think of it that way. But within them, they know That they're not in a place of high contentment. They're a place of stress. They feel things are out of control. The high performers usually have some perfectionist tendencies. And so they also are trying to make sure that everybody else does everything perfect, which then becomes a micromanagement issue. I say, like you're kind of seeing like sheds like an onion. You kind of see them like starting to shed things. Like, okay, like I let go of this, but then this. happen and like okay I let go and then like it's okay. And you really you can't tell somebody where like what fuels them. You know, like you you could probably figure it out as a coach, but you really are there to kind of actively listen to them tell you like what you know satisfies them, makes them happy. And I will say this if my clients are married, usually the the first thing that you can tell moving them out of depletion is their relationship with their spouse. So it's really that is probably one of the coolest things that you get to see as a coach. I mean, you give them tools. There's a great article, Harvard Business Review, that I give a lot of my entrepreneurial couples about supporting your spouse through stress. And it's a great article. I think it was written, I don't know, like 10 years ago, but it's really, really good. And it just talks about little things that you can do if your spouse is stressed. And it's really written for both spouses, which is good. Usually, you know, if your husband hands you an article, like read this and like not stress me out, and you'd be I'm not reading this one. You stress me out. And so I think they did a job speaking to like both spouses of like how to support one another. because you know, there are spouses that can be stressed that are not. necessarily a career stress. It could be a different type of stress. And so it's really about like kind of supporting each other and being on the same page. But that's probably where like they'll say something like that is different than they said two weeks ago. It depends on how often you meet with them. But that seems to be something that is where some of that self awareness, self reflection, because I've been in parts of very influential people crazy, crazy, crazy successful and wealthy Christian men and there's like a cohort of and like they all come to the same conclusion that they need to be better h husbands. So it's so it's not I mean, I think it's just something where we naturally including me, like I had admitted earlier, I think a lot of times the spouse gets but I think that seems to be the way they talk about their spouse. And if you see the response, you could tell like that when the dynamic gets healthier. I think that's usually one of the first fruits that I have seen in my coaching. I love that. I think that's a beautiful outflow. And it makes sense that it would impact the closest relationship to them right away. Well, Cindy, as you are working with people and spreading your message about moving from depletion to joy as a performance strategy, do you have something that people can take? I have a joy meter. Like people can go in and it's like a little test and it's it's literally like less than a minute and they take it and they just answer honestly their questions and it kinda shows them where they are in these different categories of their lives and and where their joy's locking and if their joys like a you know, a forty on their marriage and it gives like ten things they can do. I like it. I mean I just obviously I designed it, but I think it's fun because it's sixty s it's like sixty seconds. You just honestly answer it and fill it out, it'll give you some like Just tips. And even like some of it's like, I I know that. I should probably do that. But I think there's something like, you know what? If I really end this poorly graded in this area, I should probably make time to do some of these things that, you know, will make me just, you know, enjoy my life at a different level. I love that. So if someone's listening right now and they want to find out those areas in their life where they can increase their joy or even have some feedback. They may think that they're firing at all cylinders, but with a little reflection. And taking your tests, they can find out where they can target some focus energy toward creating joy. And then if somebody thinks, my gosh, I would love to work with Cindy, who is trained by people with Bob Buford and coaches in that sphere. If somebody wants a really great coach and they want to work with you, what would that look like and where do they go right now? So right now I most people just contact me through LinkedIn. All my information's in LinkedIn. they could DVD, but you also you'll have my on the show notes, you'll have my contact information. So we're going include the contact information for Cindy in the show notes, her link to her joy meter so you can identify where you can increase your joy. Cindy, thank you so much for being here today. This has been such a treat. Well, it's been a lot of fun. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Thanks for coming. This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and isn't a substitute for individualized medical, mental health, or professional care. Every brain is different. Results will vary. Thank you for listening to Hyper Focus and High Performance. If today's conversation helped you think differently about how your mind works, I invite you to take the next step. Visit think dash time.com/slash podcast and grab my free training. Why can't I find a planner that works for me? If you've ever felt frustrated, judged even by yourself, overwhelmed, or simply wondered why everyone seems to be able to follow a system that simply doesn't work for you, you're not alone. 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