WEBVTT
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But to be a chef, you gotta be responsible for the three Ps.
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The three P's are the people, the product, and the profitability.
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Cooked with Eric Reed at Midwest Professional Rapids.
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Here's your host, Eric Reed.
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Welcome to Cooked with Eric Reed.
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I'm uh super excited about this episode.
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Uh, we have one of my instructors from culinary school joining us today.
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Um, for any parents that might listen to this, like in the car or with their kids around, uh, just a warning, there's there'll be some holiday spoilers in here.
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Uh, so you may want to avoid that.
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Um also some uh vocabulary slips.
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Well, yeah, vocab, but that's that's pretty much always.
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If you listen to us, you should assume that.
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Um but uh chef George Skip Gutierrez was my uh culinary school baking instructor uh as a St.
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Louis culinary icon and uh cannabis edibles maker, and here's where the beginning of some of the spoiler comes in.
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Uh and even Santa Claus.
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So um super excited about it.
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And uh Chef, why don't you uh tell us a little bit about yourself, what you're doing now, and uh some of the history of where you worked?
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Well, let me read off the uh the litany of where I've been.
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Um I've been around a block, uh started as a butcher's helper and stockboy in high school, then I spent seven years in the Marine Corps as a chief cook.
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I was a purchasing agent for the MWR departments in Rota, Spain, and Iwakuni, Japan, and I'm a purchasing agent for Hilton and Marriott Hotels and Washington University here in St.
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Louis, and then I became their bakery manager.
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Uh I've been an independent cake designer, uh, was a banquet chef at Schneidhorst, if you remember them.
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They were quite a big deal back then.
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Uh was a night baker at the Ritz Carlton, a retail baker at the Lake Forest Pastries, it used to be in Clayton, another St.
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Louis Staple.
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Uh I was a cake designer and Boulanger at uh Lazy Susan and Nato's.
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Then I was a bake instructor at LaCole Colin Air, which is my favorite job, uh production baker and instructor at companion baking, uh, chef at Lydia's house, my other favorite job, and now I make cannabis infused edibles at Kind Bio right here in St.
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Louis.
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Just just a few, just a few places.
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Those are the highlights.
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I'm leaving off the uh the jobs that I messed up.
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Or the ones you were at for six months and went nope.
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Yep, exactly.
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Or asked to leave.
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When I I mentioned Santa Claus and uh uh I mean you used to come out when I was on base and and work with us out there uh as Sorry.
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At Scott.
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At Scott, yeah.
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But um one of my favorite stories was um it and it it couldn't have been timed more perfectly.
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Um my oldest was getting to the point we're like challenging uh all all Santa stuff, and I I don't remember what I said.
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I said something like a couple days before this event, and uh I and she looks at me and says, Well, how do you know that?
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How do you know what Santa?
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And I was like, because I know Santa.
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No, you don't.
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I was like, Yeah, I know Santa.
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And we walked in to it was Ford, Ford Hotel Supply, and you were there.
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How long ago was that?
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As Santa.
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A couple days later or weeks later?
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Yeah, it was like maybe a couple weeks later.
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Um, and we interacted, and you know, you took a picture with the kids and did a couple things, and then as things calmed down a little bit later, you walked back over and just started talking to me.
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And you're like, Yeah, I've seen uh, you know, the stuff you guys have been, the videos you guys have been putting out on uh on social media and you know, see see a lot of the work you're doing, and man, you you've been doing a great job.
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That's it's really cool.
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Uh love to see it.
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Keep up the good work.
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And both my kids just simultaneously looked up at me and were like, What?
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And I just looked down and went, told you I knew Santa.
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It couldn't have been more perfect.
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I'll tell you another story about being Santa.
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I was in Kate uh Walmart, and this one kid was just acting really obnoxious.
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It was just him and his mom, and she just about to tears with this kid's uh shenanigans.
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So I walked up to the kid and looked at him real straight in the eye and said, It's a little close to Christmas to be messing up, isn't it?
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And mom looked at him like Santa's always watching.
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Oh man, that is perfect.
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That is amazing.
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Oh um so yeah, one of the things that I wanted to really talk about was like training and teaching in in the culinary industry and hospitality.
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Um and uh I I think the first thing is how did you get into it?
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How did you get started being a formal culinary school instructor whenever you w were at La Cole?
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Um actually I started at Forest Park Community College.
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Um I had just gotten back from overseas, I just joined a chef's association.
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And of course, in the chef's association, you go to the local uh culinary school and spend as much time as you can to get to know everybody.
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And um I met this girl named Anna, and she was nice and we started talking and whatnot.
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And then a little while later, Mike Downey, who was the the department chair at the time, said that he was looking for a pastry instructor, adjunct, you know, part-time.
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And Anna put my name in the in the hat.
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Well, later on, Anna became my wife.
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And uh that's how it started.
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Uh part-time at Forest Park.
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And then years later, I was at another chef's association meeting, and um Mick Milster, who was the culinary director at uh Lacole, was recruiting for the new school that they were putting together out in uh Ledue.
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And I said, I'm gonna throw my hat in a ring.
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And I said, Okay.
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And he hired me as a pastry instructor.
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Of course I'd been in the field for a number of years at that time, but um I was just I had never taught before.
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But the d the difference between Forest Park and Lacole was leagues different.
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And Forest Park they just said, okay, here, teach.
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So you just taught.
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They gave you a list of things you teach, okay, fine.
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Mainly it's just followed the uh the textbook.
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But at La Cole, they said, Okay, where's your lesson plan?
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What?
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Yeah, I need a lesson plan.
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I need to know what you're gonna tell these people, how you're gonna tell it to them, and how you're gonna reach 'em.
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And it was a whole nother level of professionalism that I I think is wonderful in the uh culinary world.
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Because a lot of times the phrase uh those that can do, those that can't teach, always haunts us.
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Okay, so people who retire out of the active kitchen and they go into teaching, and it's just okay, let me fill in my income with this teaching gig.
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And it's like, that's not what we need.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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What we need is somebody who is spirited enough to inspire people to become chefs.
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Not just settle for whoever shows up at the door.
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Yeah.
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No, absolutely.
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And I I will say that that's one of the things that I loved um about going to LaCole was there were so many teachers like you that genuinely cared and had so much to share.
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Um quite a crew back then.
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Yeah.
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There's like 30 to 40 instructors at one time.
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Was it really?
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I mean, there were quite a few.
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Of course, we covered like three shifts a day.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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But we I mean, you there were even additional things that we could do uh with the the kitchens with a mission classes and stuff like that.
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And I've told people before that that's one of the things that I like most about having gone to Lacole is I said I could have coasted through the program, come out with my degree still, and been incredibly mediocre and had just enough, you know, knowledge to not get myself in trouble getting in somewhere.
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Um fall into the stereotype of culinary school graduates who think they know everything but don't know anything.
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Oh, I have a degree.
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Good for you.
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Did you actually learn anything while you were there?
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Um, but you guys there were there were so many additional opportunities.
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There's so many skills that I picked up by working, you know, there'd be four of us helping one of the chef instructors teach a class, and um just doing those classes alone taught me more skills than like there were there were things, there were styles of food, there were techniques that were shared because they were specific to what was being made that weren't in anyone's curriculum.
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Yeah, it just exposed us to so much more uh that was out there.
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There's still things that um Clint Collier and I, one of my one of my friends, we still remember Clint.
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Yeah, we still keep in touch um from going to school together.
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Yeah, we work together and um he and I will share things every now and then or like bring something up and like, hey, you remember how we did that in um we both we'll we both volunteered for the same thing.
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And it's not even like, yeah, I've got a book that says it it's no, I just remember doing it.
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I I just asked him the other day if he had or just last night, because uh I'm working on a menu for uh for a friend, um, that Chef DeCoster had found like butternut squash that was about to go or needed to be used, you know, that they had overpurchased or whatever it was, and just randomly taught us uh the the recipe for butternut squash bisque that he always used.
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And uh it was just because he found it and went, hey, we're gonna do this today.
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And I reached out to Quentin, I was like, Do you have an actual recipe of that?
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I was like, I can recreate it, but I'm costing it currently and don't have a real recipe.
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And Quent always had a uh a little flip notebook in his breast pocket, and I mean he was just writing down.
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It was like absolutely everything.
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Yeah, and so he's like, Yeah, I'm pretty confident it's one of those in those old notepads, I'll go look for it.
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Well, that's one of the things about that uh Kitchens with a mission.
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The one class that I really had fun with was a pizza class.
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And I dove deep into the pizza, and um there was an instructor at Johnson of Wales, um, I forget his name right now, but he had like three or four books out on breads.
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And one of them was American Pie.
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It was a book solely about pizzas, its origins, the way it's uh changed over the decades and centuries.
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And for that class, I took five students and I taught each one of them how to do a specific specific style of pizza.
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And then I had them teach the guests that came in to take the class.
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So that while one person was teaching a a portion of his uh class and getting that that pizza set up, the other one could take over and he'd go do his mise en place for next thing or cleanup or whatever.
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But his grade had four five students trained specifically in uh different styles of pizza.
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Well, one of those students was uh oh what's his name?
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He was a doctor at uh uh at uh Mercy Hospital.
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He was the head of the uh uh rec reconstructive surgery and he was taking culinary classes because he just like because he grew up on a hill.
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Oh family of grocers and whatnot.
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And uh damn, I can't remember his name.
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Um but after that class, years later, he went over to Italy and bought himself one of these$30,000 outdoor stucco coated pizza ovens and invited me over to his house to make pizzas.
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And he had a table all set up where you put the dough and a peel and put the toppings on and how to use the oven and how to lift it to God, and uh it was just wonderful.
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Pete Rumble, that was his name.
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And he was one of the best students I ever had because everybody else was just starting out in life.
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He was just doing this for fun.
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And whenever the class was over, he was the first one to grab the broom, the first one to start washing dishes, but he was the head of reconstructive surgery.
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And I said, This is a real guy, this is a good guy.
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That's amazing.
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You you've obviously had several jobs where um you were still responsible for training people.
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You know, maybe not formally, but we're all when we're in kitchens, even some of the cooks, you know, might be able to, this is the way I've always approached it, that like, you know, you might have a cook that's experienced something, been somewhere that the chef never got to experience.
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Yeah.
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Doesn't mean the chef doesn't know what he's doing, it but you know, you he may have never had the chance to be exposed to whatever it is.
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Right.
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Um what um has has training always been a major, major passion for you throughout your career?
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Yeah.
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I mean, well, the the truth is if you want to really learn something, try teaching it.
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And then you start thinking of things in the way other people think about it, and not just the way you think about it, and you get to a more rounded experience.
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Um getting to know the students and getting the stud meeting the students where they are is the first step because you can't really t have a good conversation with anybody unless you know how they speak and where they've been and how they look at things.
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So if you're trying to focus a instruction on a a person, you look at the person and you talk to them and you get to know them, and you you don't start from uh a script.
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You just start talking to them and then bit by bit you piece in the details.
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Which is kind of difficult when you got a class of 30 students.
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But that's where uh uh Sarah Sutherland was a big help.
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Uh her and I didn't always see eye to eye, but she was a very influential person in my teaching career.
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She insisted that we develop uh five different styles of teaching every subject that we did.
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One for tactile learners, one for audio learners, one for uh people who just want to be left alone.
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Give me the stuff and walk away.
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I'll I'll figure it out.
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Yeah.
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And uh you can't make a separate separate uh lesson plan for each one of those styles.
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So you had to try to hit them all, and you had to get to know your class first.
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So that's why I always in remember the uh first day of baking, uh first lab day, where we're walking around finding equipment?
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Yeah.
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And you get a spatula, you get a colander.
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Okay, then trade them, then go back to your station.
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Remember that little exercise?
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Yeah.
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Well, that was mainly just to get to know the students and see who who was fun-loving and who was serious and all that kind of stuff.
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There's always a purpose to other hijinks that I had.
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We always had all well in addition to the hijinks, the uh incredibly clever um tools that were not necessarily designed for the kitchen.
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Oh, no, no, no, no.
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But you you were like they were appropriated from other other uh technical fields.
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I got that from the uh the the chief baker from the White House during the Kennedy uh era.
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He wrote a book, and he's he's well known in the food service industry.
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Um his favorite store was the hardware store.
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And he showed in his book how to make a cake dummy out of cake circles and nails.
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So you nail together all these cake circles and you ice it, and that's a dummy cake that you can use for display.
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That's what got me hooked on going to the hardware store.
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Yeah, I was gonna say I remember one time we needed a cake comb, and uh you were like, no, you don't, and threw me a uh not grout, uh mudding tool.
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You're like, no, this is all you need.
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And I'm like, hey, I know this.
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Oh man.
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Um continuing talking about the the training, what do what do you think, where do you think the biggest gaps in training and education in the culinary world are?
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Well, the fact is, nobody needs a culinary education to get a job.
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People have been cooking for thousands of years.
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But being a cook and being a chef are two different things.
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Uh being a cook, you just follow the instructions, do what you're told, keep your head down, and you know, keep going.
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But to be a chef, you've got to be responsible for the three P's.
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The three Ps are the people, the product, and the profitability.
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Okay, you gotta be responsible for the people that work for you, the customers who are people, and the people that you work for.
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And you've got to juggle these three realms of influence to the advantage of the of the business.
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And then you gotta be responsible for the product.
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Now, to be a uh considered a chef, most people expect you to know something about all the cuisines of the world.
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How many different geographical regions are there, therefore that many different cuisines?
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That's why I said uh uh a chef may not know a specific uh uh technique because he's never been to Italy.
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Okay?
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Yeah.
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So uh you gotta know the the the product inside and out, how to make good products, um where to get good ingredients, all that kind of stuff.
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And then there's the profitability.
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Um as a chef, you're probably not gonna set the selling price of your dishes.
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The market's gonna set your selling price.
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You're in competition, so what everybody else is uh selling for, you gotta get close to that.
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So how do you affect the profitability?
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You you watch the purchasing and you watch the preparation, make sure nothing's lost in preparation, you don't waste any food, and you watch the trash.
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A story I had from uh Schneidhorst, one of my jobs as uh one of the sous chefs was that I had to go out with the trash with the utility guys every night and dump the trash with a broomstick.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:49.839
So they would pull the trash can up to the dumpster and start pouring it out, and I would go through with that broomstick, and we would pull out knives, forks, cups, plates, all kinds of stuff.
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:55.039
But that also prevented those utility workers from walking out with hams and chickens.
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:55.920
Yeah.
00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:01.759
They the the common thing was to throw chicken in the trash and go out to the dumpster and then throw it in your car.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.400
Well, the supervisor out there, you can't do that.
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:08.000
So that's how the chef is responsible for the profitability.
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:20.960
So that's the way that uh the three Ps are the the the stool legs of being a chef, as opposed to being a cook who just does a good job and does what he's told.
00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:34.880
I mean, on on base, even even before the trash, we would um we would actually ask the wait staff to bring back trays unscraped and scrape them in the back of the house.
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:36.960
Even if it was just, you know, like a plate.
00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:43.039
Like, hey, when you're busing, I want you to bus, I want it to come back, I want to see it before you start scraping into the trash.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:43.759
You learn.
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:57.839
And we would learn what people weren't eating, what people weren't taking, if we could reduce portions on anything, if we could adjust uh servings of anything, and it yeah, it helped us really dive into okay, how do we need to plate?
00:19:57.920 --> 00:19:59.119
How do we what do we need to be able to do?
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:00.400
That's two different subjects.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.240
That's the product and the people.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:02.799
Yeah.
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:10.000
You learn about the people, and you probably had different uh results from the chief's mess, enlisted mess, officer's mess.
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:11.359
You had different expectations.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:13.599
Oh, yeah, every every party was different.
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.480
Every every event was, depending on who we had.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:29.680
We had a we had one event for um a group of Marines that had been uh deployed for six months.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:35.200
They came, they had like just come back, and this was like their first party.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:42.559
I think that event served two hours late because they couldn't get them to leave the bar and go sit down.
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:53.920
And I kept talking to uh I kept talking to their leadership and going, guys, like I I I held off as long as I could on plate up.
00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.200
I was like, but eventually I've got to start releasing people.
00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:01.599
I've got to get this stuff plated, but it's just gonna sit in a in a warmer waiting for you.
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:03.839
I don't want to serve you crap.
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:09.920
And uh they're like, I'll get the guys to sit down at a little bit, let them let them blow off some steam for a minute.
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:17.279
And uh it got to the point that they had gone so long, they were asking for extra.
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.240
And I mean, we always factored overage and whatever else.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:30.160
I legitimately just pulled all the pans that we had plated out of out, and I went, Look, I gotta get stuff through the dishwasher, and I would love to plate up more plates for people.
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:31.039
I can't.
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:33.599
It was like all this is already factored in cost anyway.
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:35.519
I was like, You guys want to come get it, they can come get it.
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:36.559
So you made a buffet line.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.119
And we made a buffet line after they finished their plated dinner.
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.559
And uh typical Marines, we'll eat anything.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:50.079
And then I'm like, I'm embarrassed because I'm like, this sat so long, there's no way it was good.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:55.680
There's no way they lined up and walked through the kitchen and thanked us all one by one as they went through, and they were like, Man, it was so good.
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:56.160
Thank you.
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:58.160
I was blown away.
00:21:58.799 --> 00:21:59.759
I got another story about.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.799
the the Navy and Marine Corps.
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:08.160
When I was over in Rota, Spain, uh MWR department is the rail welfare and recreation.
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:12.880
We ran the the clubs, snack bars, theaters, and stuff like that.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:20.960
Well, because Rota is at the tip at the mouth of the Mediterranean, all the carrier groups had to stop there for fuel.
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:21.519
Okay?
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:35.119
Well, when they the ships pulled in, uh our representative went to the MWR officer on each ship and took orders for duty-free liquor.
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:35.839
Okay?
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.440
And then they would go into their do their med crews six months.
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:46.880
We would compile these orders for them and hold it at Rhoda until they went back across the ocean.
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:47.519
Oh jeez.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:53.440
And they would load all the stuff with their their hull their holding hulls or whatever you call them were empty.
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.039
So fine, well let's carry something back.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:59.359
And they took all that liquor back and gave it and passed it out at Norfolk.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:00.319
Okay.
00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:12.640
Um also at the out chop they call it that out chop exercise they especially the officers they really couldn't relax the whole time they were in there.
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.000
They were on the job 24-7, okay, 365.
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.240
This was their time to release.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:27:14.559
Well they had uh uh out chop parties and the officers were more nuts than you can imagine the enlisted to be I mean these guys would take the bread off their plates and throw it into a pile and then jump off the balcony into the pile of bread okay there was damage to the club damage to furniture and whatever the club manager did not sweat it he just handed a bill to the uh XO XO said thank you very much either passed out gave him a check or had cash because all of the officers contributed to an MWR fund the whole time they were in that that uh deployment so all that money went to the damage and the breakage and and meals and whatever and you you would you would never really appreciate uh the personality of our service members until you see them let their hair down and they're razor sharp tightly one tightly wound executioners they execute missions yep but then when they relax they are the funniest things you ever saw it was it was fun getting to to work in the the club system and see that and see different different people interact different ways and just the especially we got because Scott was such a uh had so many different commands on it yeah yeah um we would have you know any branch of the military on base at any given time and different sizes of those those yes those groups yeah yeah sometimes you have a uh a representative group sometimes you got the whole goddamn command showing up yep absolutely like have you found certain situations where um or uh certain techniques that cause trainees to absorb information better uh than you know than others than definitely and I have a specific example it happened at the culinary school um students always mess up recipes okay this they're there for they're to learn um but you can't take their word for what they did or didn't do okay when you're gonna help somebody you've got to watch them doing what they're supposed to be doing because they don't know what they're not supposed to they don't they don't know what they don't know but this one girl was trying to make royal icing and you mix uh powdered sugar and egg whites to make royal icing well this girl mistook the cornstarch for the powdered sugar and couldn't imagine why it didn't come together and she didn't know it until I showed her that's the wrong pin she felt so silly but watching people doing their their work you learn as much about them as you do about whatever you need to teach and that's how you how you teach people you meet them where they are that's yeah that's that's crazy um one of the things I was gonna finish up with the uh calling education oh yeah um it's one thing to have a bunch of information you can take a book and try to learn teach yourself from a book but it's not the same as having someone uh shepherd you through the processes and make all the connections for you again you're you're connecting the three Ps at every dish you got people you're in you're trying to please with this you got the product itself and you got the pe uh uh the uh profitability and just doing a recipe out of the book you don't get to maximize your efforts okay um it's better in a culinary school than not having a culinary school because to do all that stuff in the school of hard knocks is expensive all the mistakes that you made in culinary schools saved you thousands of dollars in the real world that's a good point and that's why culinary schools are worth their money because you get to mess up as much as you want.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.400
Eventually you'll get it right but on somebody else's dime.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.319
Yeah no that's that's a really good point.
00:27:22.960 --> 00:28:01.680
And the other reason for getting a culinary education is that you get to spend less time in the lower paying jobs in the in the industry it's not that you're not going to ever be a dishwasher you're gonna be a dishwasher this is one of the industries where you don't you never start at the top or middle management you always start at the bottom dish excuse dishwasher server line cook station you know you work your way up but if you know the vocabulary and you know the science behind what you're doing and the reasons the reasons is is probably the best thing you learn in culinary school why am I doing this?
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:04.480
Why am I doing it this way Okay?
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:11.039
This way may be best for this kitchen but as you go to another kitchen it changes.
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:31.119
Every time you get a new job in the food service industry you have to relearn every every process you ever learned to fit in with their system because they've set things up in a certain way that works for them and you trying to do it the way chef so and so told me it's culinary school that's a waste of time because he doesn't work here.
00:28:31.759 --> 00:29:45.279
This is the way you do it no it's not yeah I give an example of that back to Schneidhorst they used to have bread pudding I mean I was the uh banquet chef and I would make the Sunday brunch every week I would do all the prep for all the stations on Saturday and Friday and Saturday and their bread pudding recipe was basically custard with French bread floating on top we would take the the sliced French bread and you would mix it in with the uh the uh bread pudding mix but it ended up floating and be mainly custard and I said this isn't bread pudding this is just custard with uh toast garnish and they said don't mess with the formula don't mess with the recipe this is the way they like it don't mess with it these people have come in here for their entire lives and they're in their 60s don't mess with their meal so that's the way the bread pudding was made and the same thing goes with most anything when you get to an established restaurant that's why being a young cook at an established restaurant you get much more in-depth with all the recipes because their customers are repeat customers and they know what they want and you go broke selling what you want to cook.
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.559
Yeah you make money selling what the customer wants to buy.
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:53.279
So you learn about the customers and you learn about the the foods that they like and the way they like it.
00:29:53.440 --> 00:30:02.480
And I don't know I've never been to a difference between a uh Italian and a Sicilian restaurant but I'm pretty sure there's a difference in the way they cook they cook their foods.
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:17.119
You know their their their personalities don't always match so how could their food possibly match while I was in culinary school early in culinary school I worked at um Chris's pancakes.
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:56.400
Oh yeah and um okay one of their brothers um um oh what's his name uh Bart Saracino was in my high school class oh Chris was uh Bart's brother nice so you heard of Bartolino's on the hill yeah Bartolino is his first name so we uh I tell people all the time that that job taught me so much because like when you tell people you went to culinary school and then you know you have the title chef and whatever they find out you worked with work somewhere that has pancakes in the name of the place and um they're like how did you end up working there?
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:28.160
And I I tell people all the time that that job taught me so much because they had portions nailed down you didn't deviate from what the portion was from what the serving was uh they had processes for you know everything in the kitchen but those processes were not only built for quality of the product but the economy of the product your your time costs money those ingredients cost money if you overproduce you got to throw it away or wrap it into something else so it brings the three P's back together again.
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:34.319
Yeah well and then the the other thing that it taught me that no other job taught me anything like this was ticket timing.
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:58.960
Because when you work somewhere I work dinner and you work somewhere that you know their menu has pasta has steaks you can get a burger um but it's tw it was it was breakfast all day as well and so you'd have somebody order like an entree salad one ticket would come in you'd have an entree salad somebody would order pancakes eggs and hash browns and somebody else would get like a medium well steak.
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:04.240
And you would all come out at the same meat piping hot perfectly fresh that's an education.
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:17.759
It was yeah it was a lot um but it I mean it stuck with me every job that I went to after that of how to stage out what needed to know and how to know your your cook times and your prep times.
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:26.400
Although after that I went straight to a uh a tapas restaurant I always have to over pronounce that people are like what did you say?
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:41.119
Tapas restaurant but um there we did service completely different and you could just throw everything on because we wanted stuff staging out to the table.
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:42.720
We wanted it releasing in a wave.
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:52.240
You weren't serving a meal you were serving snacks yeah and so like if you had something that was a long ticket time you could drop it at the same same time as the the fried calamari.
00:32:52.640 --> 00:33:02.240
Because you could throw the fried calamari in the window and have it out to the table in two minutes and somebody might have done one of the longer cooks you know takes us ten minutes.
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:02.480
Yeah.
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:09.200
They're still staged out and it's gonna you know you still had to think it through you didn't want to just okay everything go.
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:18.720
But um but it was it was a little easier because you could again you're timing that that set of items with all the rest of the sets of items are on your rail.
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:19.119
Yeah.
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:26.960
You got tickets lined up and you got these people coming in and these people are have been here for two hours they might be what they might be wanting to ready be ready to go home.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:30.640
And you want to get them all their stuff before they get bored or pissed.
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:56.160
Yeah exactly let's let's get them fed and out the door the biggest gap in our our culinary system education system is the lack of follow through again having a a somebody coach you through culinary school is one thing but we need somebody to coach these culinarians through their life so many people have gotten out of the industry because they think they've hit a dead end.
00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:00.559
They have no idea how many different avenues are available to them.
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:19.920
I mean you took one of the other least uh known avenues equipment sales completely by accident and your time in the kitchen and using equipment is a very valuable source of information for these manufacturers.
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:46.559
Okay I think one of the subjects that should be taught in culinary school that is not taught in culinary school is equipment selection maintenance and cleaning so many times cooks chefs the most damage in the kitchen is usually done by the supervisor because they think they know everything and they will do something this that machine is not made to do that.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:35:35.440
And you you do it a couple times and now your machine's shot and also getting back to your uh your timing situation having the most amount of uh capabilities in the smallest space is a value you only have 12 feet of uh uh hotline and then you gotta put a broiler a uh flat top a uh salamander uh steam well and all this kind of stuff it's like what do I do you call the pros yeah yeah exactly I mean that's why people get paid to to do that to learn that information to design to schedule it out other than you know my my chef knows what he wants okay your chef probably does know what he wants but does it fit in your space?
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:36.400
Does it fit in your building?
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:44.800
Does it match what you need does he know how to factor amp loads and uh gas regulators and lines you have an electrical service in your building to do that?
00:35:44.960 --> 00:37:53.280
Yeah I've ran into that a few times that's one of the things I always talk to everybody about uh retrofitting a building um you start underground uh I think one of your last podcasts a guy was talking about a uh um getting ready to build a rest a facility and nobody looked at where the the main sewer line was the sewer line ran right underneath the property it's like okay stop we have to move that sewer line so we can get all of our sewer lines connected to it to make it work and once you fix your once you set up your sewage that's it you're done until you put the building down or at least six months renovation yeah so uh sewage is is like the the first uh area that I attack okay where am I gonna put my sink what other water sources am I gonna need where what are the drainage how the floors sloped God don't get me started on floors that are not sloped to the drain floors are set in and there's like an uphill to the drain it's like who moved it nothing's ever making it there so you have to uh factor in that and then the second is the electrical where are you gonna put your uh where's your hotline at are you gonna have gas lines are you gonna pick between gas electric induction uh whatever else you're gonna use geothermal I don't know maybe not here but but you know uh setting up your you're actually setting up your cooks for success you know getting them in a situation where they can do the job in the minimum amount of time not that everybody wants to rush the cooks out the door and cut their labor off but try to take some of the stress out of their life long longevity in food service has much to do with stress levels and if you're investing I anybody invests in a young cook you know you either hire the talent or you train the talent either way you're gonna spend some money.
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:59.280
When you hire the talent at least a lot of the money is already spent and you know that fixed amount.
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:06.400
But with a young cook you don't know how much how many food how much food he's gonna mess up before he actually learns it.
00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:06.960
Okay?
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:16.079
So getting that cook ready to succeed should be on everybody's mind when they build the restaurant.
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:20.400
A lot of these restaurateurs think oh I'm a I can do this and I like this food and whatever.
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:22.239
Yeah but you're not gonna be cooking it.
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:24.719
You're gonna be at the front of the house gladhanding.
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:25.280
Okay?
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:30.400
You need to be able to train people to do this and equip them to do it efficiently.
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:36.480
And that's a big uh consideration in making a restaurant successful.
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:46.639
Yeah well not to mention I mean if you have a bunch of broken equipment or a poor layout it causes people to become disgruntled because they have to work harder to get their job done it causes more stress.
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:47.760
And then you lose them.
00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:48.239
Yeah.
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:51.599
Whatever time you invested in training them, you've lost them.
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:55.199
Now they not only don't want to be your cook they don't want to be a cook at all.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:59.199
Yeah because their vision of food service is what they've experienced.
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:03.199
They have no idea the global reach of food service.
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.360
Did you know that in the Chef's Association of St.
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:12.639
Louis when you join the Chefs Cuisine Association of America you're also in the World Cooks Association?
00:39:12.960 --> 00:40:39.039
I didn't realize it went world it's global and that in in the minds of people that want to move around the world if you're part of the Chef's Association here and you're also connected to the uh World Cooks Association that's another check mark another box on their resume that the chef at the other end of the uh the trip will knock off yeah I could take this guy in uh remember that first trip we took uh the students to in uh France the very first class at La Coco and we took like eight students over going to Italy by the time that I was right I was going through but yeah um that particular kitchen which is a Michelin star uh kitchen they would take interns from across the world to work there and you had to commit to so many years like you worked there for three years um in that time you learn lots of skills how to do French cuisine as part of their uh internship program they would then be sent to another country like they would go from France to Italy to work in an Italian uh restaurant of the same quality or higher and then maybe to Belgium and then well usually it goes England first because they got the lowest standard for food and then you go you go up the chain.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:41:00.000
I remember my uh my one chef at uh Johnson Wales Pat Sazi um he spent three years each in five different countries before he got his master's chef certification then he came to America and got a job at the Long Island Country Club in New York which is one of the most prestigious country clubs in the world and stayed there for 30 years.
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:26.880
Man and then he went teaching at Johnson Wales so another story about Pat um we're talking about the industry evolving I mean I've seen some evolutions in food service um Pat Sazi would he gave me one of his blotters remember what a desk blotter is or was his was printed with all of his ingredients broken down by the vendors and it was sitting on his desk.
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:30.480
So anytime he thought about something he'd make a note on that blotter.
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:42.960
Okay so when the sales rep came to his restaurant to take his order he just check off all the or scratch off on his his blotter and the guy would take the order and go.
00:41:43.199 --> 00:42:08.079
Nowadays all the ordering systems are on a on your cell phone and you're ordering it without the your sales rep even knowing about it until the order's pulled that's one of the evolutions of food service the uh different ways of doing things I can't imagine what a what Pat Sazi would be thinking about induction cooking nowadays.
00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:48.239
I mean there there are physical requirements for a fire cooking your food which is different than the physical requirements of an electric plate cooking your food which is different from an induction cooking cooking your food and if you're not thinking about that all the way through the depth of that process you're not going to optimize your cook's time like I said with follow through once you get a culinarian out of cook school they need to join an apprenticeship program somewhere because just because you learned the basics and your knife cuts and your mother sauces and uh the vocabulary you have to learn how to put it into place.
00:42:48.639 --> 00:43:13.840
With the American Culinary Federation you can get uh an apprenticeship at almost any place in the country at least in every state then you work on what you've learned and you keep learning and keep learning and keep learning because my old friend from uh oh here in St.
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:22.960
Louis his his motto was when you're done learning you're done it's time for get in the casket and to say goodbye.
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:28.079
Because if you aren't learning your entire life you're done you just start to shrivel.
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:32.559
You're just like an old carrot's a really good point.
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:51.199
Well I mean i as you pointed out you know things are always evolving um so you know that goes way beyond even your professional life um but e even in your professional life, you know if we're talking kitchens you were just talking about everything things constantly change.
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:58.320
And if you're not learning you're you're just you're not even keeping up with what's happening.
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:10.559
And and some The the struggle there is somebody else is going to come along that has kept up and can say, Hey, I can do this in half the time, or I can do this with less effort, or you know, whatever it might be.
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:11.280
Yeah.
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:13.280
Um, so yeah.
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:19.119
And this the the old adage of a chef saying it's my way or the highway, I take the highway every time.
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:30.239
It's like if you're thinking that way, I'm not gonna follow you down the down to the dumpster, you know, because if it's your way or the highway, then we're stuck in your little your little mind.
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:36.000
I want somebody who's gonna tell me, yeah, yeah, that's the way they do it over there, and they can do it over here in whatever different ways.
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.119
But we need to do it this way, here and now.
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:52.880
This procedure may change next year, next month, if we get a new system or a new new menu item or whatever, but my way of the highway, that's for that's for limited-minded people.
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:53.760
Yeah.
00:44:55.519 --> 00:45:00.400
And that's another reason why the European chefs are so respected because they do have apprenticeship programs.
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:23.199
Um, the other thing that uh in Germany, my understanding is in German education, once you graduate from high school, you generally take one of two uh academic paths, either academic or technical.
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:28.320
And in Germany, both of those paths paths are equally respected.
00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:38.159
You can go to engineering school, you go to electrical school, plumbing, whatever, or you can go to uh theological seminary or uh art history or whatever.
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:47.360
The the two paths are kind of separated, and you go to two different types of school because those schools have to be equipped to teach those subjects.
00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:49.679
America needs to do that.
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:56.320
They need to value the technical education as much as they value a lawyer or a doctor.
00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:59.119
And you're talking about a wage discrepancy.
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:04.480
There's very little wage discrepancy between a union electrician and a doctor.
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:09.119
Just that union electricians don't spend their time talking about it.
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:11.840
They spend their time doing it.
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:30.159
It's yeah, I I feel like, and I I feel like we shift between in in the US talking about that, we shift between villainizing one or the other instead of understanding that you don't get through your day with any of without any of these people.
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:30.639
Right.
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:32.480
It's no longer us and them.
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:32.719
Yeah.
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:34.719
It's just us and the rest of us.
00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:35.440
Right.
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:45.760
Why are we why are we villainizing what somebody chooses to do or you know, education because, well, it it's a waste of time, whatever.
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:51.199
And then conversely, you know, well, I'm I'm better than them because he's the guy that plunges my toilet.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:51.519
Yeah.
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:52.159
Or whatever.
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:59.360
Like, no, but you need the guy that plunges your toilet if you want to do it yourself to function, or you can do it yourself.
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:06.320
I don't, I mean, I do, but this goes back to the uh uh culinary education.
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:14.639
Culinary education needs to stop being focused on food and needs to start being focused on people and meeting the needs of the people.
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:23.440
Um if you don't understand how a refrigerator works, you don't know why you're telling that cook to shut the damn door to the refrigerator.
00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:24.400
Yeah.
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:24.960
Okay?
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:28.159
You leave the door open, you don't have refrigerated food anymore.
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:35.039
You have semi-refrigerated, and you're running electric electric electrical bill up, which is your profitability.
00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:42.719
Um learning why things do what they do is part of the education of a cook or a chef.
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:46.719
And that's what's what one of the things that's missing.
00:47:47.119 --> 00:48:00.880
Yeah, no, that's it, it it's uh one of the most basic ways that I've ever had anybody say it is you know, refrigerators keep things cold or hold cold things.
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:02.719
They do not make things cold.
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:05.760
Well, I always think of refrigerators as vacuums.
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:09.840
They are they are extracting energy out of whatever's inside.
00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:11.679
That's exactly what it is.
00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:16.159
If you didn't extract that heat, then it's gonna keep on spoiling.
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:17.039
Okay.
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:23.199
Um I thank God they invented curtain strips.
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:27.519
People they aggravated their, I mean, especially if you're wearing a tall toque.
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:27.840
Oh, yeah.
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:29.679
They try to go in and out of the refrigerator.
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:38.639
It's like if I catch one of you guys pulling that curtain strip aside and hanging it on a shelf so you can walk through uninhibited, I'm gonna fire you right then and there.
00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:43.760
Okay, those curtain strips are there for a reason, a good reason.
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:48.000
And I've seen really good curtain strip systems too, where it's two layers.
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:48.800
Yep.
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:50.880
I like the biparting ones.
00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:51.199
Yeah.
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:52.960
The forklift is a little easier.
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:53.119
Yeah.
00:48:54.239 --> 00:49:02.000
You may not be able to put a forklift in there, but they're made for when you have a cart to put in, you push a button and it opens both of them and closes back up right behind you.
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:05.920
That and you can't lift those and throw them over the shelf.
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:08.239
Yeah, they're quite a bit heavier.
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:09.360
They are.
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:15.199
But I would I would go so far as to try to find curtain strips for the reach-in.
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:25.920
Get a curtain strip right and reach in the refrigerator, then you can see through the curtain strips, see where your stuff is, and reach in and pull out just that container and not open the whole damn thing.
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:31.679
I saw that when you open the refrigerator door, you're creating a whirlwind and you're sucking all that cold air out when you open the door.
00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:37.119
It's like, how about if we put a barrier in there, keep most of that cold in there, and just reach through it and pull out what you need?
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:42.239
I've also been a big fan of glass-fronted refrigerators.
00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:44.559
So you can see where it is before.
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:50.960
My my very favorite refrigerators, refrigeration system, is what you see in a Sam's warehouse.
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:55.679
Where it's a drive-in uh freezer or refrigerator.
00:49:55.760 --> 00:50:00.239
They run forklifts into the refrigerator, but the entire outside is windows.
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:01.119
Oh, yeah, okay.
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:06.559
And they lay the seafood out here and the fruit out there, and you're stocking from the inside to the outside.
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:10.079
So your stock rotation is inert.
00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:11.360
It's natural.
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:15.360
You don't have to worry about which one came first, you just keep pushing it toward the door.
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:20.239
But then having separate doors, you don't open the whole damn door at one time.
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:20.719
Right.
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:22.800
You only open the part that you need.
00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:32.320
And I would I would love to find uh design a kitchen where the well we have a we have a place that was done like that.
00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:41.519
MacArthur's Bakery up on uh Limay Ferry, they deliberately designed their facility with refrigeration in the center of the building.
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:43.519
A refrigerator and a freezer.
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:48.000
Now they didn't have the windows on the outside, but they did have multiple doors.
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:53.599
And when you receive your products, you put it right there in the middle of the building, and everybody can get to it real quick.
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:56.639
Rather than the old-fashioned way where they put the refrigerator at the back door.
00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:57.440
So it's near the door.
00:50:57.519 --> 00:50:59.920
And you gotta take a hike every time you want to go get a gallon of milk.
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:00.639
Yeah.
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:08.480
So what you want to do is uh make product preservation intuitive.
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:13.119
Well, you don't have to know about why you rotate the stock, what FIFO is or whatever.
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:14.480
It's just natural.
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:17.039
You stock from this side, you pull from that side.
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:17.679
Yeah.
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:25.360
I've seen I'm I've seen some people design similar to what you're doing, what you're describing.
00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:30.559
Um not they don't have like the convenience store style doors or that that that opening door.
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:33.679
Or convenience stores is uh just a smaller version of what they have at Sam.
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:34.159
Yeah.
00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:35.360
It's only one-sided.
00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:35.840
Yeah.
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:41.760
But I've seen um doing little like basically a half-size reach-in door.
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:42.159
Yeah.
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:46.320
And uh um and putting those along the side of the walk-in.
00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:46.800
Yeah.
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:50.000
Um, typically that's when like it's closer to the line.
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:50.320
Yeah.
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:53.760
So you can have all your key go-to items right there.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:55.760
And it serves multiple purposes.
00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:04.960
It's gonna prolong the life of your refrigeration, it's gonna prolong the life of your your goods that are in refrigeration because you're not pulling in hot air all the time.
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:09.599
Um, but then it's also right there at the ready.
00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:14.239
If you stock correctly, your cooks aren't off the line long.
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:20.480
I mean, back doing prep work or going to the going to the walk-in, which is you know, a couple oh wait, here's another story.
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:22.400
Um full of stories.
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:23.199
I love it.
00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:30.639
Um I went to a pastry competition out in Arizona one time at a Marriott hotel that had a thousand rooms.
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:39.920
And it was literally a quarter of a mile from the banquet kitchen to the pastry kitchen, down a hallway, like they have it on ships.
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:41.360
It's like a speedway.
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:46.320
They have motorized carts going from one end of the building to the other because they were so big.
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:53.280
They had like eight mobile plate-up lines with heat lamps coming down from the ceiling.
00:52:53.519 --> 00:53:02.719
And you can move the heat wells around in your pastry in your hot cabinets, where they would have three or four teams of people plating up a thousand plate meal.
00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:09.039
And they could do a thousand plates in 20 minutes because they were set up to do so.
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:21.199
And any of those ideas into the mind of a regular mom and pop uh restaurant, they can make a connection to their operation.
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:26.639
I saw that idea there, but can I scale that idea back to what I what fits my operation?
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:27.440
Yeah.
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:30.559
Because time is everything.
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:39.119
Yeah, you minimize timing is everything, you minimize movement, keep things where people need it, and they can be more efficient.
00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:39.920
Yeah.
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:56.480
Yeah, we talk about it, I I bring it up with bars all the time because like higher end, a lot of times people get it, they they do a little more, um, because then you get the show as well, so you want your bartenders there being showy, whatever it might be.
00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:02.239
But um, you know, kitchen design, I feel like people are always talking about efficiency.
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:06.480
How do I get the most food out in the shortest window of time?
00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:10.559
How do I maximize my cook's time and the labor?
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:17.119
Um, but when it comes to the bar, I I feel like that's not as full of a thought.
00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:25.039
I think there's a disparity in people's perception of professional bartenders as opposed to professional cooks.
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:28.639
I had a friend of mine, you remember uh uh Chris Lee?
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:29.199
Yeah.
00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:36.320
Okay, his dad and his and Chris had a restaurant over in Central West End, and he told me, I have no professional servers.
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:42.719
I have want to be lawyers, want to be doctors, want to be students of all kinds, you know.
00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:48.960
And the professionalism that goes into being a server is just as important as a professionalism in the kitchen.
00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:49.679
Yeah.
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:57.679
And in Europe, they have professional bartending, mixology paths in the culinary world.
00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:06.639
You can become a professional and uh skilled or what it skilled level, certified bartenders.
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:17.039
And another bartender story, I was in Baltimore, Maryland, and my friend John Rocca taught me how to make cafe Diablo, table side.
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:34.800
Where he had the coffee brewing in a uh espresso pot there, and he had orange and he peeled it down and it made a big spiral, and he put the meat fork into the uh orange and then poured the hot coffee over the orange and down the peel into the cup.
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:36.000
Big show.
00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:40.639
Fifteen dollars for that cup of coffee, but the show was worth it.
00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:50.239
And when you're teaching a uh a young uh bartender the tricks of the trade, you need to give them something to look forward to.
00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:54.320
Sure, we make we sell beer and beer whiskey, that's what we do, we just do this.
00:55:54.559 --> 00:56:00.559
But if they have the interest in doing better stuff, that kind of leaks back into what they're doing right there at that point.
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:13.360
What advice would you give uh someone, an actual the person that is training in a kitchen, whether it be, you know, they're going through the school hard knocks or they're going to culinary school?
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:14.960
Communication.
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:18.960
Uh the means of communication have changed quite a bit.
00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:22.480
I mean, I still carry a notebook in my pocket.
00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:27.760
I've had these notebooks since 1983 from Daytimer.
00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:29.840
I still write down pen and paste.
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:32.559
You guys all have electronic devices.
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:36.800
Um but more than just the means of communication, how do you communicate?
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:45.039
It's important for a young person or a new person, rather young or old, when you go to a new operation, learn how they talk to each other.
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:54.480
A lot of cooks feel um ignored or overlooked because nobody is meeting their communication demands.
00:56:54.719 --> 00:57:01.679
They have things to say, they want to do, they want to make suggestions, they want to be, they want to be heard, but they're just not using the right system.
00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:14.800
In a company that uses mainly written communications like messages or uh text messages or emails or whatever, and they're just talking to their supervisor, and the supervisor's not taking it anywhere.
00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:18.719
Learn the communication system that's in place where you are.
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:21.599
Find out from everybody else, talk to people.
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:23.199
How do you get things done?
00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:32.800
How do you communicate your uh your suggestions, your your concerns through the system and get the best results?
00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:45.599
People don't I mean we we had communication classes in culinary school, yeah, but I don't think we focus enough on the technical means of she's getting bored.
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:53.199
Um how do you how do you get your message across without seeming like you know it all?
00:57:54.239 --> 00:58:07.440
Again, the the impression that a culinary student uh is a know-it-all that that culinary student needs to learn how to communicate in the manner that those people that he's working with relate to.
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:08.800
Yeah.
00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:13.440
So no, I I I think that's that's a huge thing, and absolutely.
00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:28.880
I got told um one time that I was managing wrong as a chef um by a supervisor because uh he said, you know, it's it's tough love.
00:58:28.960 --> 00:58:32.639
You've got to go just tell them what needs to be done and do it.
00:58:33.199 --> 00:58:33.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:34.880
Him and the highway.
00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:49.199
And and I was like, but I can be an asshole and just demand, or I can have a conversation with them and understand where the friction is and why we're not meeting.
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:49.599
Yeah.
00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:58.000
And I'm like, no, at the end of the day, if that person's just combatitive and was going to continue to be competitive and doesn't want to do what they're being asked, okay, yeah, now it's a problem.
00:58:58.400 --> 00:59:01.360
But now you get you get documentation as to why that person needs to go home.
00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:03.519
But like, hey, where's where's the friction?
00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:07.119
What's what's the friction point here and why is why is there an issue?
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:07.440
Yeah.
00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:13.599
And how do we how do we get through it rather than just you didn't do what I told you to, you're gone.
00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:14.159
Yeah.
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:16.480
Is well, maybe there was a reason.
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:18.400
Maybe I didn't understand what you were saying.
00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:18.880
Right.
00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:21.199
I heard your words, but didn't understand the meanings.
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:22.000
Yeah.
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:23.920
But yeah, I I agree.
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:26.480
Um, thank you so much for for joining us.
00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:28.719
I this was this was a ton of fun.
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:30.159
Um my pleasure.
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:36.960
So that and and thanks for coming in and hope to to stay in touch with you some more and run into you at more events.
00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:38.159
Oh yeah.
00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:41.599
Um we'll just put him on a recurring guest calendar.
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:42.639
Yeah, we'll just keep talking.
00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:44.159
Yeah, we'll just get new subjects.
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:49.920
Well, we'll we can we can allot like 15 minutes each episode and just do story time with Skip.
00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:54.559
I think one of the best things that St.
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:58.880
Louis does offer is events, festivals.
00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:01.440
We should be known for our festivals.
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:07.840
Um the quality of life in any city is indicated by the festivals that they throw.
01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:09.920
I was involved with uh Taste of St.
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:13.280
Louis for like 10 years when it was outside downtown.
01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:17.679
Oh, where the whole city was in, you know, was there.
01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:35.119
And then they had problems with the administration, whatever, and then went out to West Chesterfield, and now then they got wrapped into the Anheuser Bush uh ballpark village, you know, oh yeah corporation.
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:44.800
And that's all fine and good, but when you ever have a a corporate sponsor, you tend to focus on what the corporate wants wants to sell.
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:52.960
If it's focused on the restaurants, the individual restaurants in the city, then you grow the culinary scene of the entire city.
01:00:54.159 --> 01:00:55.199
I would like to see more.
01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:58.880
I went to the uh Foodies Eat First uh little festival.
01:00:59.119 --> 01:00:59.440
Yeah.
01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:00.400
And it was wonderful.
01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:02.639
Remember uh Liz uh Schuster?
01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:03.119
Yeah.
01:01:03.280 --> 01:01:17.840
Yeah, she did on a she did a movie of uh sinners, and this one guy came out who was a professional African dancer with the costumes and everything, and he is very much involved with the local African culture here in St.
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:27.679
Louis, and uh that diversity of cuisine, because cuisine is personality, the personality of that that those people.
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:33.280
Um I've always said that homogenization is the enemy of civilization.
01:01:34.159 --> 01:01:40.800
Um if change is a spice of life, let me die of a heart attack of acid indigestion.
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:44.000
Okay, I like spiciness to be different.
01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:52.400
Um I believe we should have uh entire strip malls in the neighborhoods focused on that culture.
01:01:52.880 --> 01:02:15.760
If you have somebody who makes the uh clothes that those people wear, especially ceremonial or uh traditional clothing, um candy shops, restaurants, um entertainment venues, build the malls with the people who live there in in mind, then you would have a destination for people to go to.
01:02:16.239 --> 01:02:16.880
Yeah, that's cool.
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:18.320
I mean the hill used to be like that.
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:18.719
Yeah.
01:02:18.960 --> 01:02:22.400
You go down the hill and you all this stuff was Italian in nature.
01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:34.639
The fact that we have such a frequent, rapid influx of people from other nations, they don't have time to build all that inter infrastructure to become a whole neighborhood.
01:02:34.719 --> 01:02:37.039
They just end up taking up apartment buildings that are already there.
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:39.039
Yeah, you go where you can find a place.
01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:39.519
Yeah.
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:42.719
And you find somebody who can speak like you, okay, you're you're you're good.
01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:54.880
Uh most people come to the United States are in shock from whatever they came from, but and which is different from the uh immigration from previous times, where they came here to be better.
01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:59.920
The immigrants came to Americ America to have a better life.
01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:07.519
People from uh Bosnia came here to get away from murder and name mayhem.
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:08.079
Right.
01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:09.599
They were fleeing.
01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:10.159
Okay.
01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:17.679
I think we should re reverse that and become more of a magnetic America rather than a polarizing America.
01:03:18.079 --> 01:03:25.599
Attract people for what they want to do and how they want to be build their lives better, because if their life gets built better, our life is better.
01:03:27.360 --> 01:03:28.480
That's my bit.
01:03:29.199 --> 01:03:30.000
I like it.
01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:31.920
Uh, thank you so much for listening today.
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:34.000
Uh had a great time with this one.
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:35.039
I hope you enjoy it.
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:37.519
Uh, please subscribe, like, follow.
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:44.880
Um make sure you catch up on um any of the podcasts we have and continue to follow us for more.
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:53.360
And follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and uh LinkedIn and keep up to date with what we've got going on.
01:03:57.760 --> 01:04:01.280
Cooked with Eric Reed and Midwest Professional Rapids.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.120
But to be a chef, you gotta be responsible for the three Ps.
00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:07.120
The three P's are the people, the product, and the profitability.
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:15.119
Cooked with Eric Reed at Midwest Professional Rapids.
00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:18.079
Here's your host, Eric Reed.
00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:23.359
Welcome to Cooked with Eric Reed.
00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:26.000
I'm uh super excited about this episode.
00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:29.839
Uh, we have one of my instructors from culinary school joining us today.
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Um, for any parents that might listen to this, like in the car or with their kids around, uh, just a warning, there's there'll be some holiday spoilers in here.
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Uh, so you may want to avoid that.
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Um also some uh vocabulary slips.
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Well, yeah, vocab, but that's that's pretty much always.
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If you listen to us, you should assume that.
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Um but uh chef George Skip Gutierrez was my uh culinary school baking instructor uh as a St.
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Louis culinary icon and uh cannabis edibles maker, and here's where the beginning of some of the spoiler comes in.
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Uh and even Santa Claus.
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So um super excited about it.
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And uh Chef, why don't you uh tell us a little bit about yourself, what you're doing now, and uh some of the history of where you worked?
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Well, let me read off the uh the litany of where I've been.
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Um I've been around a block, uh started as a butcher's helper and stockboy in high school, then I spent seven years in the Marine Corps as a chief cook.
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I was a purchasing agent for the MWR departments in Rota, Spain, and Iwakuni, Japan, and I'm a purchasing agent for Hilton and Marriott Hotels and Washington University here in St.
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Louis, and then I became their bakery manager.
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Uh I've been an independent cake designer, uh, was a banquet chef at Schneidhorst, if you remember them.
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They were quite a big deal back then.
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Uh was a night baker at the Ritz Carlton, a retail baker at the Lake Forest Pastries, it used to be in Clayton, another St.
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Louis Staple.
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Uh I was a cake designer and Boulanger at uh Lazy Susan and Nato's.
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Then I was a bake instructor at LaCole Colin Air, which is my favorite job, uh production baker and instructor at companion baking, uh, chef at Lydia's house, my other favorite job, and now I make cannabis infused edibles at Kind Bio right here in St.
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Louis.
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Just just a few, just a few places.
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Those are the highlights.
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I'm leaving off the uh the jobs that I messed up.
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Or the ones you were at for six months and went nope.
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Yep, exactly.
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Or asked to leave.
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When I I mentioned Santa Claus and uh uh I mean you used to come out when I was on base and and work with us out there uh as Sorry.
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At Scott.
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At Scott, yeah.
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But um one of my favorite stories was um it and it it couldn't have been timed more perfectly.
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Um my oldest was getting to the point we're like challenging uh all all Santa stuff, and I I don't remember what I said.
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I said something like a couple days before this event, and uh I and she looks at me and says, Well, how do you know that?
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How do you know what Santa?
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And I was like, because I know Santa.
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No, you don't.
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I was like, Yeah, I know Santa.
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And we walked in to it was Ford, Ford Hotel Supply, and you were there.
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How long ago was that?
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As Santa.
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A couple days later or weeks later?
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Yeah, it was like maybe a couple weeks later.
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Um, and we interacted, and you know, you took a picture with the kids and did a couple things, and then as things calmed down a little bit later, you walked back over and just started talking to me.
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And you're like, Yeah, I've seen uh, you know, the stuff you guys have been, the videos you guys have been putting out on uh on social media and you know, see see a lot of the work you're doing, and man, you you've been doing a great job.
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That's it's really cool.
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Uh love to see it.
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Keep up the good work.
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And both my kids just simultaneously looked up at me and were like, What?
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And I just looked down and went, told you I knew Santa.
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It couldn't have been more perfect.
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I'll tell you another story about being Santa.
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I was in Kate uh Walmart, and this one kid was just acting really obnoxious.
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It was just him and his mom, and she just about to tears with this kid's uh shenanigans.
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So I walked up to the kid and looked at him real straight in the eye and said, It's a little close to Christmas to be messing up, isn't it?
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And mom looked at him like Santa's always watching.
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Oh man, that is perfect.
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That is amazing.
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Oh um so yeah, one of the things that I wanted to really talk about was like training and teaching in in the culinary industry and hospitality.
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Um and uh I I think the first thing is how did you get into it?
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How did you get started being a formal culinary school instructor whenever you w were at La Cole?
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Um actually I started at Forest Park Community College.
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Um I had just gotten back from overseas, I just joined a chef's association.
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And of course, in the chef's association, you go to the local uh culinary school and spend as much time as you can to get to know everybody.
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And um I met this girl named Anna, and she was nice and we started talking and whatnot.
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And then a little while later, Mike Downey, who was the the department chair at the time, said that he was looking for a pastry instructor, adjunct, you know, part-time.
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And Anna put my name in the in the hat.
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Well, later on, Anna became my wife.
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And uh that's how it started.
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Uh part-time at Forest Park.
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And then years later, I was at another chef's association meeting, and um Mick Milster, who was the culinary director at uh Lacole, was recruiting for the new school that they were putting together out in uh Ledue.
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And I said, I'm gonna throw my hat in a ring.
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And I said, Okay.
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And he hired me as a pastry instructor.
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Of course I'd been in the field for a number of years at that time, but um I was just I had never taught before.
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But the d the difference between Forest Park and Lacole was leagues different.
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And Forest Park they just said, okay, here, teach.
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So you just taught.
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They gave you a list of things you teach, okay, fine.
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Mainly it's just followed the uh the textbook.
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But at La Cole, they said, Okay, where's your lesson plan?
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What?
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Yeah, I need a lesson plan.
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I need to know what you're gonna tell these people, how you're gonna tell it to them, and how you're gonna reach 'em.
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And it was a whole nother level of professionalism that I I think is wonderful in the uh culinary world.
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Because a lot of times the phrase uh those that can do, those that can't teach, always haunts us.
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Okay, so people who retire out of the active kitchen and they go into teaching, and it's just okay, let me fill in my income with this teaching gig.
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And it's like, that's not what we need.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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What we need is somebody who is spirited enough to inspire people to become chefs.
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Not just settle for whoever shows up at the door.
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Yeah.
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No, absolutely.
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And I I will say that that's one of the things that I loved um about going to LaCole was there were so many teachers like you that genuinely cared and had so much to share.
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Um quite a crew back then.
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Yeah.
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There's like 30 to 40 instructors at one time.
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Was it really?
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I mean, there were quite a few.
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Of course, we covered like three shifts a day.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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But we I mean, you there were even additional things that we could do uh with the the kitchens with a mission classes and stuff like that.
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And I've told people before that that's one of the things that I like most about having gone to Lacole is I said I could have coasted through the program, come out with my degree still, and been incredibly mediocre and had just enough, you know, knowledge to not get myself in trouble getting in somewhere.
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Um fall into the stereotype of culinary school graduates who think they know everything but don't know anything.
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Oh, I have a degree.
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Good for you.
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Did you actually learn anything while you were there?
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Um, but you guys there were there were so many additional opportunities.
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There's so many skills that I picked up by working, you know, there'd be four of us helping one of the chef instructors teach a class, and um just doing those classes alone taught me more skills than like there were there were things, there were styles of food, there were techniques that were shared because they were specific to what was being made that weren't in anyone's curriculum.
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Yeah, it just exposed us to so much more uh that was out there.
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There's still things that um Clint Collier and I, one of my one of my friends, we still remember Clint.
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Yeah, we still keep in touch um from going to school together.
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Yeah, we work together and um he and I will share things every now and then or like bring something up and like, hey, you remember how we did that in um we both we'll we both volunteered for the same thing.
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And it's not even like, yeah, I've got a book that says it it's no, I just remember doing it.
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I I just asked him the other day if he had or just last night, because uh I'm working on a menu for uh for a friend, um, that Chef DeCoster had found like butternut squash that was about to go or needed to be used, you know, that they had overpurchased or whatever it was, and just randomly taught us uh the the recipe for butternut squash bisque that he always used.
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And uh it was just because he found it and went, hey, we're gonna do this today.
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And I reached out to Quentin, I was like, Do you have an actual recipe of that?
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I was like, I can recreate it, but I'm costing it currently and don't have a real recipe.
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And Quent always had a uh a little flip notebook in his breast pocket, and I mean he was just writing down.
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It was like absolutely everything.
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Yeah, and so he's like, Yeah, I'm pretty confident it's one of those in those old notepads, I'll go look for it.
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Well, that's one of the things about that uh Kitchens with a mission.
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The one class that I really had fun with was a pizza class.
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And I dove deep into the pizza, and um there was an instructor at Johnson of Wales, um, I forget his name right now, but he had like three or four books out on breads.
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And one of them was American Pie.
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It was a book solely about pizzas, its origins, the way it's uh changed over the decades and centuries.
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And for that class, I took five students and I taught each one of them how to do a specific specific style of pizza.
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And then I had them teach the guests that came in to take the class.
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So that while one person was teaching a a portion of his uh class and getting that that pizza set up, the other one could take over and he'd go do his mise en place for next thing or cleanup or whatever.
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But his grade had four five students trained specifically in uh different styles of pizza.
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Well, one of those students was uh oh what's his name?
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He was a doctor at uh uh at uh Mercy Hospital.
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He was the head of the uh uh rec reconstructive surgery and he was taking culinary classes because he just like because he grew up on a hill.
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Oh family of grocers and whatnot.
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And uh damn, I can't remember his name.
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Um but after that class, years later, he went over to Italy and bought himself one of these$30,000 outdoor stucco coated pizza ovens and invited me over to his house to make pizzas.
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And he had a table all set up where you put the dough and a peel and put the toppings on and how to use the oven and how to lift it to God, and uh it was just wonderful.
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Pete Rumble, that was his name.
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And he was one of the best students I ever had because everybody else was just starting out in life.
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He was just doing this for fun.
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And whenever the class was over, he was the first one to grab the broom, the first one to start washing dishes, but he was the head of reconstructive surgery.
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And I said, This is a real guy, this is a good guy.
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That's amazing.
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You you've obviously had several jobs where um you were still responsible for training people.
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You know, maybe not formally, but we're all when we're in kitchens, even some of the cooks, you know, might be able to, this is the way I've always approached it, that like, you know, you might have a cook that's experienced something, been somewhere that the chef never got to experience.
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Yeah.
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Doesn't mean the chef doesn't know what he's doing, it but you know, you he may have never had the chance to be exposed to whatever it is.
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Right.
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Um what um has has training always been a major, major passion for you throughout your career?
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Yeah.
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I mean, well, the the truth is if you want to really learn something, try teaching it.
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And then you start thinking of things in the way other people think about it, and not just the way you think about it, and you get to a more rounded experience.
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Um getting to know the students and getting the stud meeting the students where they are is the first step because you can't really t have a good conversation with anybody unless you know how they speak and where they've been and how they look at things.
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So if you're trying to focus a instruction on a a person, you look at the person and you talk to them and you get to know them, and you you don't start from uh a script.
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You just start talking to them and then bit by bit you piece in the details.
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Which is kind of difficult when you got a class of 30 students.
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But that's where uh uh Sarah Sutherland was a big help.
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Uh her and I didn't always see eye to eye, but she was a very influential person in my teaching career.
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She insisted that we develop uh five different styles of teaching every subject that we did.
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One for tactile learners, one for audio learners, one for uh people who just want to be left alone.
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Give me the stuff and walk away.
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I'll I'll figure it out.
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Yeah.
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And uh you can't make a separate separate uh lesson plan for each one of those styles.
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So you had to try to hit them all, and you had to get to know your class first.
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So that's why I always in remember the uh first day of baking, uh first lab day, where we're walking around finding equipment?
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Yeah.
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And you get a spatula, you get a colander.
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Okay, then trade them, then go back to your station.
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Remember that little exercise?
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Yeah.
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Well, that was mainly just to get to know the students and see who who was fun-loving and who was serious and all that kind of stuff.
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There's always a purpose to other hijinks that I had.
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We always had all well in addition to the hijinks, the uh incredibly clever um tools that were not necessarily designed for the kitchen.
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Oh, no, no, no, no.
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But you you were like they were appropriated from other other uh technical fields.
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I got that from the uh the the chief baker from the White House during the Kennedy uh era.
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He wrote a book, and he's he's well known in the food service industry.
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Um his favorite store was the hardware store.
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And he showed in his book how to make a cake dummy out of cake circles and nails.
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So you nail together all these cake circles and you ice it, and that's a dummy cake that you can use for display.
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That's what got me hooked on going to the hardware store.
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Yeah, I was gonna say I remember one time we needed a cake comb, and uh you were like, no, you don't, and threw me a uh not grout, uh mudding tool.
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You're like, no, this is all you need.
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And I'm like, hey, I know this.
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Oh man.
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:38.480
Um continuing talking about the the training, what do what do you think, where do you think the biggest gaps in training and education in the culinary world are?
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Well, the fact is, nobody needs a culinary education to get a job.
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People have been cooking for thousands of years.
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But being a cook and being a chef are two different things.
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Uh being a cook, you just follow the instructions, do what you're told, keep your head down, and you know, keep going.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:00.960
But to be a chef, you've got to be responsible for the three P's.
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The three Ps are the people, the product, and the profitability.
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Okay, you gotta be responsible for the people that work for you, the customers who are people, and the people that you work for.
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And you've got to juggle these three realms of influence to the advantage of the of the business.
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And then you gotta be responsible for the product.
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Now, to be a uh considered a chef, most people expect you to know something about all the cuisines of the world.
00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:34.240
How many different geographical regions are there, therefore that many different cuisines?
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That's why I said uh uh a chef may not know a specific uh uh technique because he's never been to Italy.
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:44.079
Okay?
00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:45.119
Yeah.
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So uh you gotta know the the the product inside and out, how to make good products, um where to get good ingredients, all that kind of stuff.
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And then there's the profitability.
00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:05.519
Um as a chef, you're probably not gonna set the selling price of your dishes.
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The market's gonna set your selling price.
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You're in competition, so what everybody else is uh selling for, you gotta get close to that.
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So how do you affect the profitability?
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You you watch the purchasing and you watch the preparation, make sure nothing's lost in preparation, you don't waste any food, and you watch the trash.
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A story I had from uh Schneidhorst, one of my jobs as uh one of the sous chefs was that I had to go out with the trash with the utility guys every night and dump the trash with a broomstick.
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So they would pull the trash can up to the dumpster and start pouring it out, and I would go through with that broomstick, and we would pull out knives, forks, cups, plates, all kinds of stuff.
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:55.039
But that also prevented those utility workers from walking out with hams and chickens.
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Yeah.
00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:01.759
They the the common thing was to throw chicken in the trash and go out to the dumpster and then throw it in your car.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.400
Well, the supervisor out there, you can't do that.
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:08.000
So that's how the chef is responsible for the profitability.
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:20.960
So that's the way that uh the three Ps are the the the stool legs of being a chef, as opposed to being a cook who just does a good job and does what he's told.
00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:34.880
I mean, on on base, even even before the trash, we would um we would actually ask the wait staff to bring back trays unscraped and scrape them in the back of the house.
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:36.960
Even if it was just, you know, like a plate.
00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:43.039
Like, hey, when you're busing, I want you to bus, I want it to come back, I want to see it before you start scraping into the trash.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:43.759
You learn.
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:57.839
And we would learn what people weren't eating, what people weren't taking, if we could reduce portions on anything, if we could adjust uh servings of anything, and it yeah, it helped us really dive into okay, how do we need to plate?
00:19:57.920 --> 00:19:59.119
How do we what do we need to be able to do?
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:00.400
That's two different subjects.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.240
That's the product and the people.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:02.799
Yeah.
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:10.000
You learn about the people, and you probably had different uh results from the chief's mess, enlisted mess, officer's mess.
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:11.359
You had different expectations.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:13.599
Oh, yeah, every every party was different.
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.480
Every every event was, depending on who we had.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:29.680
We had a we had one event for um a group of Marines that had been uh deployed for six months.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:35.200
They came, they had like just come back, and this was like their first party.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:42.559
I think that event served two hours late because they couldn't get them to leave the bar and go sit down.
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:53.920
And I kept talking to uh I kept talking to their leadership and going, guys, like I I I held off as long as I could on plate up.
00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.200
I was like, but eventually I've got to start releasing people.
00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:01.599
I've got to get this stuff plated, but it's just gonna sit in a in a warmer waiting for you.
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:03.839
I don't want to serve you crap.
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:09.920
And uh they're like, I'll get the guys to sit down at a little bit, let them let them blow off some steam for a minute.
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:17.279
And uh it got to the point that they had gone so long, they were asking for extra.
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.240
And I mean, we always factored overage and whatever else.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:30.160
I legitimately just pulled all the pans that we had plated out of out, and I went, Look, I gotta get stuff through the dishwasher, and I would love to plate up more plates for people.
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:31.039
I can't.
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:33.599
It was like all this is already factored in cost anyway.
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:35.519
I was like, You guys want to come get it, they can come get it.
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:36.559
So you made a buffet line.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.119
And we made a buffet line after they finished their plated dinner.
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.559
And uh typical Marines, we'll eat anything.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:50.079
And then I'm like, I'm embarrassed because I'm like, this sat so long, there's no way it was good.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:55.680
There's no way they lined up and walked through the kitchen and thanked us all one by one as they went through, and they were like, Man, it was so good.
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:56.160
Thank you.
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:58.160
I was blown away.
00:21:58.799 --> 00:21:59.759
I got another story about.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.799
the the Navy and Marine Corps.
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:08.160
When I was over in Rota, Spain, uh MWR department is the rail welfare and recreation.
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:12.880
We ran the the clubs, snack bars, theaters, and stuff like that.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:20.960
Well, because Rota is at the tip at the mouth of the Mediterranean, all the carrier groups had to stop there for fuel.
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:21.519
Okay?
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:35.119
Well, when they the ships pulled in, uh our representative went to the MWR officer on each ship and took orders for duty-free liquor.
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:35.839
Okay?
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.440
And then they would go into their do their med crews six months.
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:46.880
We would compile these orders for them and hold it at Rhoda until they went back across the ocean.
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:47.519
Oh jeez.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:53.440
And they would load all the stuff with their their hull their holding hulls or whatever you call them were empty.
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.039
So fine, well let's carry something back.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:59.359
And they took all that liquor back and gave it and passed it out at Norfolk.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:00.319
Okay.
00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:12.640
Um also at the out chop they call it that out chop exercise they especially the officers they really couldn't relax the whole time they were in there.
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.000
They were on the job 24-7, okay, 365.
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.240
This was their time to release.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:27:14.559
Well they had uh uh out chop parties and the officers were more nuts than you can imagine the enlisted to be I mean these guys would take the bread off their plates and throw it into a pile and then jump off the balcony into the pile of bread okay there was damage to the club damage to furniture and whatever the club manager did not sweat it he just handed a bill to the uh XO XO said thank you very much either passed out gave him a check or had cash because all of the officers contributed to an MWR fund the whole time they were in that that uh deployment so all that money went to the damage and the breakage and and meals and whatever and you you would you would never really appreciate uh the personality of our service members until you see them let their hair down and they're razor sharp tightly one tightly wound executioners they execute missions yep but then when they relax they are the funniest things you ever saw it was it was fun getting to to work in the the club system and see that and see different different people interact different ways and just the especially we got because Scott was such a uh had so many different commands on it yeah yeah um we would have you know any branch of the military on base at any given time and different sizes of those those yes those groups yeah yeah sometimes you have a uh a representative group sometimes you got the whole goddamn command showing up yep absolutely like have you found certain situations where um or uh certain techniques that cause trainees to absorb information better uh than you know than others than definitely and I have a specific example it happened at the culinary school um students always mess up recipes okay this they're there for they're to learn um but you can't take their word for what they did or didn't do okay when you're gonna help somebody you've got to watch them doing what they're supposed to be doing because they don't know what they're not supposed to they don't they don't know what they don't know but this one girl was trying to make royal icing and you mix uh powdered sugar and egg whites to make royal icing well this girl mistook the cornstarch for the powdered sugar and couldn't imagine why it didn't come together and she didn't know it until I showed her that's the wrong pin she felt so silly but watching people doing their their work you learn as much about them as you do about whatever you need to teach and that's how you how you teach people you meet them where they are that's yeah that's that's crazy um one of the things I was gonna finish up with the uh calling education oh yeah um it's one thing to have a bunch of information you can take a book and try to learn teach yourself from a book but it's not the same as having someone uh shepherd you through the processes and make all the connections for you again you're you're connecting the three Ps at every dish you got people you're in you're trying to please with this you got the product itself and you got the pe uh uh the uh profitability and just doing a recipe out of the book you don't get to maximize your efforts okay um it's better in a culinary school than not having a culinary school because to do all that stuff in the school of hard knocks is expensive all the mistakes that you made in culinary schools saved you thousands of dollars in the real world that's a good point and that's why culinary schools are worth their money because you get to mess up as much as you want.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.400
Eventually you'll get it right but on somebody else's dime.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.319
Yeah no that's that's a really good point.
00:27:22.960 --> 00:28:01.680
And the other reason for getting a culinary education is that you get to spend less time in the lower paying jobs in the in the industry it's not that you're not going to ever be a dishwasher you're gonna be a dishwasher this is one of the industries where you don't you never start at the top or middle management you always start at the bottom dish excuse dishwasher server line cook station you know you work your way up but if you know the vocabulary and you know the science behind what you're doing and the reasons the reasons is is probably the best thing you learn in culinary school why am I doing this?
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:04.480
Why am I doing it this way Okay?
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:11.039
This way may be best for this kitchen but as you go to another kitchen it changes.
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:31.119
Every time you get a new job in the food service industry you have to relearn every every process you ever learned to fit in with their system because they've set things up in a certain way that works for them and you trying to do it the way chef so and so told me it's culinary school that's a waste of time because he doesn't work here.
00:28:31.759 --> 00:29:45.279
This is the way you do it no it's not yeah I give an example of that back to Schneidhorst they used to have bread pudding I mean I was the uh banquet chef and I would make the Sunday brunch every week I would do all the prep for all the stations on Saturday and Friday and Saturday and their bread pudding recipe was basically custard with French bread floating on top we would take the the sliced French bread and you would mix it in with the uh the uh bread pudding mix but it ended up floating and be mainly custard and I said this isn't bread pudding this is just custard with uh toast garnish and they said don't mess with the formula don't mess with the recipe this is the way they like it don't mess with it these people have come in here for their entire lives and they're in their 60s don't mess with their meal so that's the way the bread pudding was made and the same thing goes with most anything when you get to an established restaurant that's why being a young cook at an established restaurant you get much more in-depth with all the recipes because their customers are repeat customers and they know what they want and you go broke selling what you want to cook.
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.559
Yeah you make money selling what the customer wants to buy.
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:53.279
So you learn about the customers and you learn about the the foods that they like and the way they like it.
00:29:53.440 --> 00:30:02.480
And I don't know I've never been to a difference between a uh Italian and a Sicilian restaurant but I'm pretty sure there's a difference in the way they cook they cook their foods.
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:17.119
You know their their their personalities don't always match so how could their food possibly match while I was in culinary school early in culinary school I worked at um Chris's pancakes.
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:56.400
Oh yeah and um okay one of their brothers um um oh what's his name uh Bart Saracino was in my high school class oh Chris was uh Bart's brother nice so you heard of Bartolino's on the hill yeah Bartolino is his first name so we uh I tell people all the time that that job taught me so much because like when you tell people you went to culinary school and then you know you have the title chef and whatever they find out you worked with work somewhere that has pancakes in the name of the place and um they're like how did you end up working there?
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:28.160
And I I tell people all the time that that job taught me so much because they had portions nailed down you didn't deviate from what the portion was from what the serving was uh they had processes for you know everything in the kitchen but those processes were not only built for quality of the product but the economy of the product your your time costs money those ingredients cost money if you overproduce you got to throw it away or wrap it into something else so it brings the three P's back together again.
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:34.319
Yeah well and then the the other thing that it taught me that no other job taught me anything like this was ticket timing.
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:58.960
Because when you work somewhere I work dinner and you work somewhere that you know their menu has pasta has steaks you can get a burger um but it's tw it was it was breakfast all day as well and so you'd have somebody order like an entree salad one ticket would come in you'd have an entree salad somebody would order pancakes eggs and hash browns and somebody else would get like a medium well steak.
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:04.240
And you would all come out at the same meat piping hot perfectly fresh that's an education.
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:17.759
It was yeah it was a lot um but it I mean it stuck with me every job that I went to after that of how to stage out what needed to know and how to know your your cook times and your prep times.
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:26.400
Although after that I went straight to a uh a tapas restaurant I always have to over pronounce that people are like what did you say?
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:41.119
Tapas restaurant but um there we did service completely different and you could just throw everything on because we wanted stuff staging out to the table.
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:42.720
We wanted it releasing in a wave.
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:52.240
You weren't serving a meal you were serving snacks yeah and so like if you had something that was a long ticket time you could drop it at the same same time as the the fried calamari.
00:32:52.640 --> 00:33:02.240
Because you could throw the fried calamari in the window and have it out to the table in two minutes and somebody might have done one of the longer cooks you know takes us ten minutes.
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:02.480
Yeah.
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:09.200
They're still staged out and it's gonna you know you still had to think it through you didn't want to just okay everything go.
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:18.720
But um but it was it was a little easier because you could again you're timing that that set of items with all the rest of the sets of items are on your rail.
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:19.119
Yeah.
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:26.960
You got tickets lined up and you got these people coming in and these people are have been here for two hours they might be what they might be wanting to ready be ready to go home.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:30.640
And you want to get them all their stuff before they get bored or pissed.
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:56.160
Yeah exactly let's let's get them fed and out the door the biggest gap in our our culinary system education system is the lack of follow through again having a a somebody coach you through culinary school is one thing but we need somebody to coach these culinarians through their life so many people have gotten out of the industry because they think they've hit a dead end.
00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:00.559
They have no idea how many different avenues are available to them.
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:19.920
I mean you took one of the other least uh known avenues equipment sales completely by accident and your time in the kitchen and using equipment is a very valuable source of information for these manufacturers.
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:46.559
Okay I think one of the subjects that should be taught in culinary school that is not taught in culinary school is equipment selection maintenance and cleaning so many times cooks chefs the most damage in the kitchen is usually done by the supervisor because they think they know everything and they will do something this that machine is not made to do that.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:35:35.440
And you you do it a couple times and now your machine's shot and also getting back to your uh your timing situation having the most amount of uh capabilities in the smallest space is a value you only have 12 feet of uh uh hotline and then you gotta put a broiler a uh flat top a uh salamander uh steam well and all this kind of stuff it's like what do I do you call the pros yeah yeah exactly I mean that's why people get paid to to do that to learn that information to design to schedule it out other than you know my my chef knows what he wants okay your chef probably does know what he wants but does it fit in your space?
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:36.400
Does it fit in your building?
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:44.800
Does it match what you need does he know how to factor amp loads and uh gas regulators and lines you have an electrical service in your building to do that?
00:35:44.960 --> 00:37:53.280
Yeah I've ran into that a few times that's one of the things I always talk to everybody about uh retrofitting a building um you start underground uh I think one of your last podcasts a guy was talking about a uh um getting ready to build a rest a facility and nobody looked at where the the main sewer line was the sewer line ran right underneath the property it's like okay stop we have to move that sewer line so we can get all of our sewer lines connected to it to make it work and once you fix your once you set up your sewage that's it you're done until you put the building down or at least six months renovation yeah so uh sewage is is like the the first uh area that I attack okay where am I gonna put my sink what other water sources am I gonna need where what are the drainage how the floors sloped God don't get me started on floors that are not sloped to the drain floors are set in and there's like an uphill to the drain it's like who moved it nothing's ever making it there so you have to uh factor in that and then the second is the electrical where are you gonna put your uh where's your hotline at are you gonna have gas lines are you gonna pick between gas electric induction uh whatever else you're gonna use geothermal I don't know maybe not here but but you know uh setting up your you're actually setting up your cooks for success you know getting them in a situation where they can do the job in the minimum amount of time not that everybody wants to rush the cooks out the door and cut their labor off but try to take some of the stress out of their life long longevity in food service has much to do with stress levels and if you're investing I anybody invests in a young cook you know you either hire the talent or you train the talent either way you're gonna spend some money.
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:59.280
When you hire the talent at least a lot of the money is already spent and you know that fixed amount.
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:06.400
But with a young cook you don't know how much how many food how much food he's gonna mess up before he actually learns it.
00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:06.960
Okay?
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:16.079
So getting that cook ready to succeed should be on everybody's mind when they build the restaurant.
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:20.400
A lot of these restaurateurs think oh I'm a I can do this and I like this food and whatever.
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:22.239
Yeah but you're not gonna be cooking it.
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:24.719
You're gonna be at the front of the house gladhanding.
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:25.280
Okay?
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:30.400
You need to be able to train people to do this and equip them to do it efficiently.
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:36.480
And that's a big uh consideration in making a restaurant successful.
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:46.639
Yeah well not to mention I mean if you have a bunch of broken equipment or a poor layout it causes people to become disgruntled because they have to work harder to get their job done it causes more stress.
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:47.760
And then you lose them.
00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:48.239
Yeah.
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:51.599
Whatever time you invested in training them, you've lost them.
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:55.199
Now they not only don't want to be your cook they don't want to be a cook at all.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:59.199
Yeah because their vision of food service is what they've experienced.
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:03.199
They have no idea the global reach of food service.
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.360
Did you know that in the Chef's Association of St.
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:12.639
Louis when you join the Chefs Cuisine Association of America you're also in the World Cooks Association?
00:39:12.960 --> 00:40:39.039
I didn't realize it went world it's global and that in in the minds of people that want to move around the world if you're part of the Chef's Association here and you're also connected to the uh World Cooks Association that's another check mark another box on their resume that the chef at the other end of the uh the trip will knock off yeah I could take this guy in uh remember that first trip we took uh the students to in uh France the very first class at La Coco and we took like eight students over going to Italy by the time that I was right I was going through but yeah um that particular kitchen which is a Michelin star uh kitchen they would take interns from across the world to work there and you had to commit to so many years like you worked there for three years um in that time you learn lots of skills how to do French cuisine as part of their uh internship program they would then be sent to another country like they would go from France to Italy to work in an Italian uh restaurant of the same quality or higher and then maybe to Belgium and then well usually it goes England first because they got the lowest standard for food and then you go you go up the chain.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:41:00.000
I remember my uh my one chef at uh Johnson Wales Pat Sazi um he spent three years each in five different countries before he got his master's chef certification then he came to America and got a job at the Long Island Country Club in New York which is one of the most prestigious country clubs in the world and stayed there for 30 years.
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:26.880
Man and then he went teaching at Johnson Wales so another story about Pat um we're talking about the industry evolving I mean I've seen some evolutions in food service um Pat Sazi would he gave me one of his blotters remember what a desk blotter is or was his was printed with all of his ingredients broken down by the vendors and it was sitting on his desk.
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:30.480
So anytime he thought about something he'd make a note on that blotter.
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:42.960
Okay so when the sales rep came to his restaurant to take his order he just check off all the or scratch off on his his blotter and the guy would take the order and go.
00:41:43.199 --> 00:42:08.079
Nowadays all the ordering systems are on a on your cell phone and you're ordering it without the your sales rep even knowing about it until the order's pulled that's one of the evolutions of food service the uh different ways of doing things I can't imagine what a what Pat Sazi would be thinking about induction cooking nowadays.
00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:48.239
I mean there there are physical requirements for a fire cooking your food which is different than the physical requirements of an electric plate cooking your food which is different from an induction cooking cooking your food and if you're not thinking about that all the way through the depth of that process you're not going to optimize your cook's time like I said with follow through once you get a culinarian out of cook school they need to join an apprenticeship program somewhere because just because you learned the basics and your knife cuts and your mother sauces and uh the vocabulary you have to learn how to put it into place.
00:42:48.639 --> 00:43:13.840
With the American Culinary Federation you can get uh an apprenticeship at almost any place in the country at least in every state then you work on what you've learned and you keep learning and keep learning and keep learning because my old friend from uh oh here in St.
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:22.960
Louis his his motto was when you're done learning you're done it's time for get in the casket and to say goodbye.
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:28.079
Because if you aren't learning your entire life you're done you just start to shrivel.
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:32.559
You're just like an old carrot's a really good point.
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:51.199
Well I mean i as you pointed out you know things are always evolving um so you know that goes way beyond even your professional life um but e even in your professional life, you know if we're talking kitchens you were just talking about everything things constantly change.
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:58.320
And if you're not learning you're you're just you're not even keeping up with what's happening.
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:10.559
And and some The the struggle there is somebody else is going to come along that has kept up and can say, Hey, I can do this in half the time, or I can do this with less effort, or you know, whatever it might be.
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:11.280
Yeah.
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:13.280
Um, so yeah.
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:19.119
And this the the old adage of a chef saying it's my way or the highway, I take the highway every time.
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:30.239
It's like if you're thinking that way, I'm not gonna follow you down the down to the dumpster, you know, because if it's your way or the highway, then we're stuck in your little your little mind.
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:36.000
I want somebody who's gonna tell me, yeah, yeah, that's the way they do it over there, and they can do it over here in whatever different ways.
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.119
But we need to do it this way, here and now.
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:52.880
This procedure may change next year, next month, if we get a new system or a new new menu item or whatever, but my way of the highway, that's for that's for limited-minded people.
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:53.760
Yeah.
00:44:55.519 --> 00:45:00.400
And that's another reason why the European chefs are so respected because they do have apprenticeship programs.
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:23.199
Um, the other thing that uh in Germany, my understanding is in German education, once you graduate from high school, you generally take one of two uh academic paths, either academic or technical.
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:28.320
And in Germany, both of those paths paths are equally respected.
00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:38.159
You can go to engineering school, you go to electrical school, plumbing, whatever, or you can go to uh theological seminary or uh art history or whatever.
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:47.360
The the two paths are kind of separated, and you go to two different types of school because those schools have to be equipped to teach those subjects.
00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:49.679
America needs to do that.
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:56.320
They need to value the technical education as much as they value a lawyer or a doctor.
00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:59.119
And you're talking about a wage discrepancy.
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:04.480
There's very little wage discrepancy between a union electrician and a doctor.
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:09.119
Just that union electricians don't spend their time talking about it.
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:11.840
They spend their time doing it.
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:30.159
It's yeah, I I feel like, and I I feel like we shift between in in the US talking about that, we shift between villainizing one or the other instead of understanding that you don't get through your day with any of without any of these people.
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:30.639
Right.
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:32.480
It's no longer us and them.
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:32.719
Yeah.
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:34.719
It's just us and the rest of us.
00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:35.440
Right.
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:45.760
Why are we why are we villainizing what somebody chooses to do or you know, education because, well, it it's a waste of time, whatever.
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:51.199
And then conversely, you know, well, I'm I'm better than them because he's the guy that plunges my toilet.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:51.519
Yeah.
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:52.159
Or whatever.
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:59.360
Like, no, but you need the guy that plunges your toilet if you want to do it yourself to function, or you can do it yourself.
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:06.320
I don't, I mean, I do, but this goes back to the uh uh culinary education.
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:14.639
Culinary education needs to stop being focused on food and needs to start being focused on people and meeting the needs of the people.
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:23.440
Um if you don't understand how a refrigerator works, you don't know why you're telling that cook to shut the damn door to the refrigerator.
00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:24.400
Yeah.
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:24.960
Okay?
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:28.159
You leave the door open, you don't have refrigerated food anymore.
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:35.039
You have semi-refrigerated, and you're running electric electric electrical bill up, which is your profitability.
00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:42.719
Um learning why things do what they do is part of the education of a cook or a chef.
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:46.719
And that's what's what one of the things that's missing.
00:47:47.119 --> 00:48:00.880
Yeah, no, that's it, it it's uh one of the most basic ways that I've ever had anybody say it is you know, refrigerators keep things cold or hold cold things.
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:02.719
They do not make things cold.
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:05.760
Well, I always think of refrigerators as vacuums.
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:09.840
They are they are extracting energy out of whatever's inside.
00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:11.679
That's exactly what it is.
00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:16.159
If you didn't extract that heat, then it's gonna keep on spoiling.
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:17.039
Okay.
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:23.199
Um I thank God they invented curtain strips.
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:27.519
People they aggravated their, I mean, especially if you're wearing a tall toque.
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:27.840
Oh, yeah.
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:29.679
They try to go in and out of the refrigerator.
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:38.639
It's like if I catch one of you guys pulling that curtain strip aside and hanging it on a shelf so you can walk through uninhibited, I'm gonna fire you right then and there.
00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:43.760
Okay, those curtain strips are there for a reason, a good reason.
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:48.000
And I've seen really good curtain strip systems too, where it's two layers.
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:48.800
Yep.
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:50.880
I like the biparting ones.
00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:51.199
Yeah.
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:52.960
The forklift is a little easier.
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:53.119
Yeah.
00:48:54.239 --> 00:49:02.000
You may not be able to put a forklift in there, but they're made for when you have a cart to put in, you push a button and it opens both of them and closes back up right behind you.
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:05.920
That and you can't lift those and throw them over the shelf.
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:08.239
Yeah, they're quite a bit heavier.
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:09.360
They are.
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:15.199
But I would I would go so far as to try to find curtain strips for the reach-in.
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:25.920
Get a curtain strip right and reach in the refrigerator, then you can see through the curtain strips, see where your stuff is, and reach in and pull out just that container and not open the whole damn thing.
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:31.679
I saw that when you open the refrigerator door, you're creating a whirlwind and you're sucking all that cold air out when you open the door.
00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:37.119
It's like, how about if we put a barrier in there, keep most of that cold in there, and just reach through it and pull out what you need?
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:42.239
I've also been a big fan of glass-fronted refrigerators.
00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:44.559
So you can see where it is before.
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:50.960
My my very favorite refrigerators, refrigeration system, is what you see in a Sam's warehouse.
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:55.679
Where it's a drive-in uh freezer or refrigerator.
00:49:55.760 --> 00:50:00.239
They run forklifts into the refrigerator, but the entire outside is windows.
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:01.119
Oh, yeah, okay.
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:06.559
And they lay the seafood out here and the fruit out there, and you're stocking from the inside to the outside.
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:10.079
So your stock rotation is inert.
00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:11.360
It's natural.
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:15.360
You don't have to worry about which one came first, you just keep pushing it toward the door.
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:20.239
But then having separate doors, you don't open the whole damn door at one time.
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:20.719
Right.
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:22.800
You only open the part that you need.
00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:32.320
And I would I would love to find uh design a kitchen where the well we have a we have a place that was done like that.
00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:41.519
MacArthur's Bakery up on uh Limay Ferry, they deliberately designed their facility with refrigeration in the center of the building.
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:43.519
A refrigerator and a freezer.
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:48.000
Now they didn't have the windows on the outside, but they did have multiple doors.
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:53.599
And when you receive your products, you put it right there in the middle of the building, and everybody can get to it real quick.
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:56.639
Rather than the old-fashioned way where they put the refrigerator at the back door.
00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:57.440
So it's near the door.
00:50:57.519 --> 00:50:59.920
And you gotta take a hike every time you want to go get a gallon of milk.
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:00.639
Yeah.
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:08.480
So what you want to do is uh make product preservation intuitive.
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:13.119
Well, you don't have to know about why you rotate the stock, what FIFO is or whatever.
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:14.480
It's just natural.
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:17.039
You stock from this side, you pull from that side.
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:17.679
Yeah.
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:25.360
I've seen I'm I've seen some people design similar to what you're doing, what you're describing.
00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:30.559
Um not they don't have like the convenience store style doors or that that that opening door.
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:33.679
Or convenience stores is uh just a smaller version of what they have at Sam.
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:34.159
Yeah.
00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:35.360
It's only one-sided.
00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:35.840
Yeah.
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:41.760
But I've seen um doing little like basically a half-size reach-in door.
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:42.159
Yeah.
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:46.320
And uh um and putting those along the side of the walk-in.
00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:46.800
Yeah.
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:50.000
Um, typically that's when like it's closer to the line.
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:50.320
Yeah.
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:53.760
So you can have all your key go-to items right there.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:55.760
And it serves multiple purposes.
00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:04.960
It's gonna prolong the life of your refrigeration, it's gonna prolong the life of your your goods that are in refrigeration because you're not pulling in hot air all the time.
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:09.599
Um, but then it's also right there at the ready.
00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:14.239
If you stock correctly, your cooks aren't off the line long.
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:20.480
I mean, back doing prep work or going to the going to the walk-in, which is you know, a couple oh wait, here's another story.
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:22.400
Um full of stories.
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:23.199
I love it.
00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:30.639
Um I went to a pastry competition out in Arizona one time at a Marriott hotel that had a thousand rooms.
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:39.920
And it was literally a quarter of a mile from the banquet kitchen to the pastry kitchen, down a hallway, like they have it on ships.
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:41.360
It's like a speedway.
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:46.320
They have motorized carts going from one end of the building to the other because they were so big.
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:53.280
They had like eight mobile plate-up lines with heat lamps coming down from the ceiling.
00:52:53.519 --> 00:53:02.719
And you can move the heat wells around in your pastry in your hot cabinets, where they would have three or four teams of people plating up a thousand plate meal.
00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:09.039
And they could do a thousand plates in 20 minutes because they were set up to do so.
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:21.199
And any of those ideas into the mind of a regular mom and pop uh restaurant, they can make a connection to their operation.
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:26.639
I saw that idea there, but can I scale that idea back to what I what fits my operation?
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:27.440
Yeah.
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:30.559
Because time is everything.
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:39.119
Yeah, you minimize timing is everything, you minimize movement, keep things where people need it, and they can be more efficient.
00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:39.920
Yeah.
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:56.480
Yeah, we talk about it, I I bring it up with bars all the time because like higher end, a lot of times people get it, they they do a little more, um, because then you get the show as well, so you want your bartenders there being showy, whatever it might be.
00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:02.239
But um, you know, kitchen design, I feel like people are always talking about efficiency.
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:06.480
How do I get the most food out in the shortest window of time?
00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:10.559
How do I maximize my cook's time and the labor?
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:17.119
Um, but when it comes to the bar, I I feel like that's not as full of a thought.
00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:25.039
I think there's a disparity in people's perception of professional bartenders as opposed to professional cooks.
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:28.639
I had a friend of mine, you remember uh uh Chris Lee?
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:29.199
Yeah.
00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:36.320
Okay, his dad and his and Chris had a restaurant over in Central West End, and he told me, I have no professional servers.
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:42.719
I have want to be lawyers, want to be doctors, want to be students of all kinds, you know.
00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:48.960
And the professionalism that goes into being a server is just as important as a professionalism in the kitchen.
00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:49.679
Yeah.
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:57.679
And in Europe, they have professional bartending, mixology paths in the culinary world.
00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:06.639
You can become a professional and uh skilled or what it skilled level, certified bartenders.
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:17.039
And another bartender story, I was in Baltimore, Maryland, and my friend John Rocca taught me how to make cafe Diablo, table side.
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:34.800
Where he had the coffee brewing in a uh espresso pot there, and he had orange and he peeled it down and it made a big spiral, and he put the meat fork into the uh orange and then poured the hot coffee over the orange and down the peel into the cup.
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:36.000
Big show.
00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:40.639
Fifteen dollars for that cup of coffee, but the show was worth it.
00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:50.239
And when you're teaching a uh a young uh bartender the tricks of the trade, you need to give them something to look forward to.
00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:54.320
Sure, we make we sell beer and beer whiskey, that's what we do, we just do this.
00:55:54.559 --> 00:56:00.559
But if they have the interest in doing better stuff, that kind of leaks back into what they're doing right there at that point.
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:13.360
What advice would you give uh someone, an actual the person that is training in a kitchen, whether it be, you know, they're going through the school hard knocks or they're going to culinary school?
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:14.960
Communication.
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:18.960
Uh the means of communication have changed quite a bit.
00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:22.480
I mean, I still carry a notebook in my pocket.
00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:27.760
I've had these notebooks since 1983 from Daytimer.
00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:29.840
I still write down pen and paste.
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:32.559
You guys all have electronic devices.
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:36.800
Um but more than just the means of communication, how do you communicate?
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:45.039
It's important for a young person or a new person, rather young or old, when you go to a new operation, learn how they talk to each other.
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:54.480
A lot of cooks feel um ignored or overlooked because nobody is meeting their communication demands.
00:56:54.719 --> 00:57:01.679
They have things to say, they want to do, they want to make suggestions, they want to be, they want to be heard, but they're just not using the right system.
00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:14.800
In a company that uses mainly written communications like messages or uh text messages or emails or whatever, and they're just talking to their supervisor, and the supervisor's not taking it anywhere.
00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:18.719
Learn the communication system that's in place where you are.
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:21.599
Find out from everybody else, talk to people.
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:23.199
How do you get things done?
00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:32.800
How do you communicate your uh your suggestions, your your concerns through the system and get the best results?
00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:45.599
People don't I mean we we had communication classes in culinary school, yeah, but I don't think we focus enough on the technical means of she's getting bored.
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:53.199
Um how do you how do you get your message across without seeming like you know it all?
00:57:54.239 --> 00:58:07.440
Again, the the impression that a culinary student uh is a know-it-all that that culinary student needs to learn how to communicate in the manner that those people that he's working with relate to.
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:08.800
Yeah.
00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:13.440
So no, I I I think that's that's a huge thing, and absolutely.
00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:28.880
I got told um one time that I was managing wrong as a chef um by a supervisor because uh he said, you know, it's it's tough love.
00:58:28.960 --> 00:58:32.639
You've got to go just tell them what needs to be done and do it.
00:58:33.199 --> 00:58:33.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:34.880
Him and the highway.
00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:49.199
And and I was like, but I can be an asshole and just demand, or I can have a conversation with them and understand where the friction is and why we're not meeting.
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:49.599
Yeah.
00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:58.000
And I'm like, no, at the end of the day, if that person's just combatitive and was going to continue to be competitive and doesn't want to do what they're being asked, okay, yeah, now it's a problem.
00:58:58.400 --> 00:59:01.360
But now you get you get documentation as to why that person needs to go home.
00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:03.519
But like, hey, where's where's the friction?
00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:07.119
What's what's the friction point here and why is why is there an issue?
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:07.440
Yeah.
00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:13.599
And how do we how do we get through it rather than just you didn't do what I told you to, you're gone.
00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:14.159
Yeah.
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:16.480
Is well, maybe there was a reason.
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:18.400
Maybe I didn't understand what you were saying.
00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:18.880
Right.
00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:21.199
I heard your words, but didn't understand the meanings.
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:22.000
Yeah.
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:23.920
But yeah, I I agree.
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:26.480
Um, thank you so much for for joining us.
00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:28.719
I this was this was a ton of fun.
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:30.159
Um my pleasure.
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:36.960
So that and and thanks for coming in and hope to to stay in touch with you some more and run into you at more events.
00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:38.159
Oh yeah.
00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:41.599
Um we'll just put him on a recurring guest calendar.
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:42.639
Yeah, we'll just keep talking.
00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:44.159
Yeah, we'll just get new subjects.
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:49.920
Well, we'll we can we can allot like 15 minutes each episode and just do story time with Skip.
00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:54.559
I think one of the best things that St.
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:58.880
Louis does offer is events, festivals.
00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:01.440
We should be known for our festivals.
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:07.840
Um the quality of life in any city is indicated by the festivals that they throw.
01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:09.920
I was involved with uh Taste of St.
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:13.280
Louis for like 10 years when it was outside downtown.
01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:17.679
Oh, where the whole city was in, you know, was there.
01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:35.119
And then they had problems with the administration, whatever, and then went out to West Chesterfield, and now then they got wrapped into the Anheuser Bush uh ballpark village, you know, oh yeah corporation.
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:44.800
And that's all fine and good, but when you ever have a a corporate sponsor, you tend to focus on what the corporate wants wants to sell.
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:52.960
If it's focused on the restaurants, the individual restaurants in the city, then you grow the culinary scene of the entire city.
01:00:54.159 --> 01:00:55.199
I would like to see more.
01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:58.880
I went to the uh Foodies Eat First uh little festival.
01:00:59.119 --> 01:00:59.440
Yeah.
01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:00.400
And it was wonderful.
01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:02.639
Remember uh Liz uh Schuster?
01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:03.119
Yeah.
01:01:03.280 --> 01:01:17.840
Yeah, she did on a she did a movie of uh sinners, and this one guy came out who was a professional African dancer with the costumes and everything, and he is very much involved with the local African culture here in St.
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:27.679
Louis, and uh that diversity of cuisine, because cuisine is personality, the personality of that that those people.
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:33.280
Um I've always said that homogenization is the enemy of civilization.
01:01:34.159 --> 01:01:40.800
Um if change is a spice of life, let me die of a heart attack of acid indigestion.
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:44.000
Okay, I like spiciness to be different.
01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:52.400
Um I believe we should have uh entire strip malls in the neighborhoods focused on that culture.
01:01:52.880 --> 01:02:15.760
If you have somebody who makes the uh clothes that those people wear, especially ceremonial or uh traditional clothing, um candy shops, restaurants, um entertainment venues, build the malls with the people who live there in in mind, then you would have a destination for people to go to.
01:02:16.239 --> 01:02:16.880
Yeah, that's cool.
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:18.320
I mean the hill used to be like that.
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:18.719
Yeah.
01:02:18.960 --> 01:02:22.400
You go down the hill and you all this stuff was Italian in nature.
01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:34.639
The fact that we have such a frequent, rapid influx of people from other nations, they don't have time to build all that inter infrastructure to become a whole neighborhood.
01:02:34.719 --> 01:02:37.039
They just end up taking up apartment buildings that are already there.
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:39.039
Yeah, you go where you can find a place.
01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:39.519
Yeah.
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:42.719
And you find somebody who can speak like you, okay, you're you're you're good.
01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:54.880
Uh most people come to the United States are in shock from whatever they came from, but and which is different from the uh immigration from previous times, where they came here to be better.
01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:59.920
The immigrants came to Americ America to have a better life.
01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:07.519
People from uh Bosnia came here to get away from murder and name mayhem.
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:08.079
Right.
01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:09.599
They were fleeing.
01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:10.159
Okay.
01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:17.679
I think we should re reverse that and become more of a magnetic America rather than a polarizing America.
01:03:18.079 --> 01:03:25.599
Attract people for what they want to do and how they want to be build their lives better, because if their life gets built better, our life is better.
01:03:27.360 --> 01:03:28.480
That's my bit.
01:03:29.199 --> 01:03:30.000
I like it.
01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:31.920
Uh, thank you so much for listening today.
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:34.000
Uh had a great time with this one.
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:35.039
I hope you enjoy it.
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:37.519
Uh, please subscribe, like, follow.
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:44.880
Um make sure you catch up on um any of the podcasts we have and continue to follow us for more.
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:53.360
And follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and uh LinkedIn and keep up to date with what we've got going on.
01:03:57.760 --> 01:04:01.280
Cooked with Eric Reed and Midwest Professional Rapids.
