WEBVTT
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We talk about our friends, the doer sellers, a lot.
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But business development is more than sales.
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Marketing plays a major role in shaping the perception of your firm between and after those curious synchronous sales conversations.
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So how can consultants and subject matter experts contribute to marketing in a meaningful way?
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Is there a whole new term out there to describe all of this?
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Let's talk about it today on the podcast
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Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Breaking Biz Dev.
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My name is John Tyreman, and as always, I'm joined by my trusty co-host, Mark Wainwright.
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Mark, I think that there may be a new term, like you teased, that we can use to describe this whole new concept that we're gonna talk about today.
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Yeah.
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we're gonna coin this one.
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who knows?
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I've never heard it before.
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I don't think that you have, and I have no idea why.
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It is totally bizarre.
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and we could be missing something completely, right, John?
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'Cause, you know, it's entirely possible but, you know, I don't
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we're gonna plant our flag on this one.
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Doer marketers, you heard it here first
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There it is, doer marketer.
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It's so funny.
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Everyone that I talk to, John, in the world of professional services, refers to the term business development.
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They talk about marketing, and a lot of times those two things start bleeding into the world of sales, and they never never like to say the word sales, but they're very comfortable using the term doer seller, right?
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It ha- I don't, I don't, I don't even know why.
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I don't even know why people are so comfortable with it
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it's a, it's another one of those four-letter words, right?
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That you just don't wanna say.
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It's, it, we'll dance around it.
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Let's do some marketing, let's do some business development, let's do some outreach, but never let's do some sales
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No, no, no sales.
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But lo and behold, we've never actually heard the term doer marketer, A term that people are so comfortable with, like doer seller, and also people are comfortable with the term marketing.
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Why have we never, ever heard the term doer marketer?
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It's, uh, that, that's a really good question
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So before we get too excited about coining this new term, John, because we may have, but we may not have.
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Let's, slow down a second here, and let's just define exactly what we're talking about.
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Because I think what we're trying to...
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We're gonna talk about something that's a little bit different than the doer seller, right?
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We think this whole term doer marketer is different, and let's maybe define those things, and then let's kind of wade into it.
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first I think it would help to define what we mean by doer seller.
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Should we start there?
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again, we've historically referenced a continuum, a marketing to sales continuum on our podcast.
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Ones are marketing, fives are sales, and we kind of wander in between those two things.
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Many times when we are talking about doer sellers, we are talking about people who are participating in activities that are related to the latter, probably the threes, fours, and fives, right?
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For doer sellers, we're also talking about people who have typically some revenue generation responsibility inside their organizations, and they have the responsibility of also delivering work to their clients.
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So they are people who day in, day out need to balance those two responsibilities, and other responsibilities as we've talked about in the past.
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mainly those two responsibilities of delivering work, doing the work, and selling the work, whether it's new clients or existing client accounts.
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So that's kind of, that's kind of what we're talking about here.
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So what are we talking about with a doer marketer, John?
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Let me take a stab at this one, Mark.
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So I think the share-- the overlap between the two is the shared responsibility to deliver work to clients, right?
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So that's the common ground that these doer marketers share with our doer seller
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I get it.
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The doer part.
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Clear.
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part.
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Yep.
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it.
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Yeah
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Now, to you, I love that you brought in the marketing and sales continuum because we have talked about different activities that do belong on that one to two, and even into that messy middle three area of the marketing to sales continuum.
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But I think that is where our doer marketer friends thrive, is on that end of that spectrum.
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Now, I'm not saying that doer marketers should not understand the sales process, nor should doer marketers not know how to close deals or contract, but that's not their primary focus.
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Their primary focus with their unbillable hours will be to, market the firm as opposed to selling one-to-one
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And the other thing that kind of just springs to mind for me is that, we are not creating a new term for all of our wonderful doer sellers, maybe regrettable doer sellers, to go running towards, Nor do we want every doer seller out there that has some amount of revenue responsibility and they're getting beat over the head for sales to go running towards this new term doer marketer and say,"You know what?
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John and Mark said it's okay for me to be a doer marketer, so I'm just gonna give up on all that other stuff." That's not kind of what we're talking about here.
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and I think that hopefully what people tease out of this is that there are people out there who can operate across the entire spectrum.
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They can do some marketing work and some selling work, and they are still delivering, contracted work to their clients.
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But maybe there are individuals, and quite a few actually, who start to gravitate more towards one or the other because of their skill set or because of their interests and their passions So I think that's kinda, we're not trying to create a safe place for all the doer sellers to run to and say,"I'm not gonna make, I'm not, no revenue.
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Forget it.
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I'm not doing that anymore." but we are, defining, you know, kind of carving out this, this doer marketer role, or opportunity for people to understand and maybe embrace if it, if it actually, you know, leans more towards their, their interests and their expertise.
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Yeah, I like that you brought up what they gravitate towards.
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And there's one distinction that we didn't mention that I think it's worth bringing up is that marketing is very much a one-to-many communication channel, whereas sales is typically more one-to-one.
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And so I think that's a good distinction too to bring, to bring about it.
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Yeah, good point
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So let's wander into why firms should even consider investing in developing doer marketers.
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Like, what's the case from an organizational perspective
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that makes total sense because firms have recognized and invested in their doer sellers.
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They believe that's a good way to spread revenue responsibilities across a lot of people.
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A lot of times firms, are looking at the m-marketing activities largely put on the shoulders of one or two people that,"Oh, by the way, you hear us, the marketers, you guys gotta do everything, but make sure you do all the proposals first, and then you can get to social media and whatever other sort of thousand things that you have on your plate.
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So what we're talking about here is why should firms invest in having doers spend more time and you know, put more effort on this whole marketing thing, probably in partnership with the internal marketing team, right?
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So first things that comes to mind for me, just to kind of jump into our whys here is, you know, we want to establish familiarity with your prospective clients, you know, with your subject matter experts, with your doers, with your technical professionals.
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that's a great one.
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Yeah, I'll probably bring it up a few times on this podcast, but people like to do business with other people they know, like, and trust.
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And we've talked about that sequence on past episodes, but I think it's really important here.
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And, I've done a little bit of research on the history of market research.
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It's a little meta, but there was a business professor at Harvard University, then his name is escaping me right now.
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But, he found that in any given market, doesn't matter what market it is, 50% of the people in that market are satisfied with their status quo.
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45% of people in any given market are open to exploring new ways of solving a problem.
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And then that leaves only about 5% of any given market who are actively on a buying journey to purchasing a service or a product.
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So if we apply this to professional services, marketing's job is to address that 95% of the market that's not actively pursuing a solution right now.
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Right.
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That's that iceberg analogy that we've talked about multiple times is, you know, there's only 5% of the iceberg actually above the waterline, and we've got this huge, massive amount of the iceberg, you know, 95% of it, some of which are sort of open to new ideas, some of which are completely satisfied with their status quo.
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However, satisfaction with the status quo can change in a moment, for sure.
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So we're talking about a huge part of the potential, marketplace, that could sort of, move their attention towards you if they come across the right information.
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So yeah,
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that back to what you were talking about, about familiarity with subject matter experts, that's, you know, addressing that 95% is really about building awareness and staying top of mind, just the mere exposure effect.
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And I, I think we had an episode about that, that people can go check out.
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But just showing up and being familiar, that leads to trust
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So we're taking those doers where we're leveraging their subject matter expertise in a doer marketer role, and we are getting their content out there in front of the individuals who are maybe curious, maybe have a kind of increasing need that hasn't really gotten to the point where they're actively looking for a solution, or others that might be totally fine but may actually move to the,"Oh, you know, maybe it's not all rosy here.
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Maybe we do have a problem that we need some help with." So there's that one.
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what's another reason that firms should be kind of investing or looking at this doer marketer role with some interest?
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Yeah, I like the metric, pipeline velocity.
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or you could look at it as shortening your sales cycle.
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So how long does an opportunity sit in your pipeline, right?
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And measured in time.
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So if you're looking to quantify that, we talked about know, like, and trust.
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Well, opportunities that are generated via visible subject matter experts, they're generated via these doer marketers, those opportunities usually enter that flow between like and trust, right?
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So they're already familiar with you, they know about you, presumably they like the content, the perspectives that you're sharing enough to have a conversation with you to see if they trust you enough to do business with you.
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Yeah,
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And so what that means is you don't have to devote as many resources to winning that business as you would to pursuing a cold lead or opportunity
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Yeah.
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So it's not just the responsibility or the opportunity for the doer seller to try to, expedite and shorten the sales cycle.
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There's actually the possibility of, the stuff that's happening, upstream further up in the funnel with the subject matter experts who are doer sellers.
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There's actually an opportunity for them to impact the length of the sales cycle.
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Cool.
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Yeah, that's a, that's a good one.
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Yeah, I think being a doer marketer can unlock premium pricing.
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And so I think there's a combination of things that have to be true for this to happen.
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So, for a consultant who is investing in the marketing side of things, that side of the spectrum, your thought leadership needs to be visible.
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So doesn't matter what channel you choose, whether it's a podcast or blogging, a newsletter, webinars, et cetera, but your subject matter expertise needs to be visible in some way.
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So that's one.
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Another thing needs to be true.
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Your client success stories are also visible.
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And this is important, and I wanna make that distinction because your thought leadership and your knowledge and expertise is one thing, but having clients kind of putting their stamp of approval on your work or, you know, giving the, a referral or a recommendation for your work is, really impactful too.
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And then the third thing that need to be true for doer marketers to be able to command premium pricing is people need to be engaging with you online.
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So those last two are social proof points, client success stories, and that you've, you're able to do the work.
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But then, you know, are people responding and engaging and validating the perspective that you're putting out there on the web?
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Yeah.
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I totally agree.
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those are great points.
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And the unlocking premium pricing doesn't mean, again, we've mentioned this, that you can go gouge your clients.
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It means that you've done the work and you've positioned yourself where you are a recognized visible authority, and that, you know, if someone doesn't want to pay the price, John, there are other options out in the marketplace that may not be as, you know, skilled or well-regarded or whatever else.
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So sure, you can unlock some premium pricing.
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At a minimum, you can reduce pricing friction, meaning that, you are able to move across a spectrum of pricing and you don't feel the weight of sort of the downward push on price because you have moved yourself away from other potential consultants or experts out there in the marketplace.
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So, Good.
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I like that.
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All right.
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So those are a couple things that firms can do to kind of invest, recognize the importance of, and then invest in these doer marketers.
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here's the next chunk here.
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What, what does a doer marketer actually do?
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We've kind of talked about the doer seller.
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We have a pretty good idea what the doer seller does.
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what in the world is the doer marketer doing?
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Yeah, so this is a, a strategic reframe on how unbillable time should be spent, right?
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So if you think about, doer sellers and how they spend unbillable time investing in specific key relationships, looking at prospects, list building, doing prospect research.
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again, very one-to-one focused activities, right?
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Where a doer marketer should invest their unbillable hours is in building a personal brand, is in developing content, doing market research, being the face or the mouthpiece of the firm out there visible on other third-party platforms, other publications, other podcasts.
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So those are the kinds of things that a doer marketer can actually do.
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Yeah, that makes total sense.
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So building the personal brand, that's just not trying to make yourself seem sort of more self-important, right?
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That's, you know, finding an opportunity to share the voice and to support both your personal expertise and the needs, of the organization,
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Yeah, so I wanna double down on that one a little bit because
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Ja,
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I've run into the scenario where, firm leadership starts to question whether or not there is an over-investment in a personal brand of an expert on staff, and at what point should we be promoting the firm brand?
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And I think it goes back to what we mentioned earlier.
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People like to do business with other people they know, like, and trust.
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People like to do business with people.
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Like, we could just stop right there.
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And if you look at, um, y- look, look at how many followers does Elon Musk have on Twitter compared to SpaceX or compared to Tesla?
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probably too many, you know, all, all of m- maybe, may- may- maybe my personal opinions that are coming into to bear on that one.
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But yeah, I, I'm, I'm guessing he's got a lot more personal followers than he does sort of organizational followers
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Yeah.
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I think that's the whole, like it's an oversimplification, but I think that just kinda is in support of that point where people just wanna do business with other people.
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People would rather do business with a face rather than a logo
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You're listening to breaking biz dev
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the podcast that beats up, breaks down, and redefines business development for the professional services firms of tomorrow.
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Your hosts are John Tyerman, founder of Red Cedar Marketing, the podcast marketing company for experts and professional services firms,
00:17:46.592 --> 00:17:56.124
And Mark Wainwright, principal consultant and founder of Wainwright Insight, the fractional sales manager and sales consultant to professional services firms.
00:17:56.405 --> 00:18:01.905
If you find this podcast helpful, please help us by following the show and leaving a review on Apple podcasts
00:18:02.263 --> 00:18:04.003
and now back to the show.
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Yeah, John, I know you're gonna get the data or you have it at your fingertips but, sort of just anecdotally, it is dramatically harder for an organization to build some level of trust with, their audience or with individuals than it is an individual, a person, right?
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I mean, because there's that whole sort of human connection thing.
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So it's dramatically easier for people, individuals, to build that trust that then kind of transfers actually to the organization, right?
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They make a real nice tight connection between, I've got a relationship with that person, that person is associated with this organization.
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I transfer that trust to the organization.
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For sure.
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that one makes a ton of sense.
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And you mentioned content and market research and all those things.
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John, what was painfully, absent from your list here was working on proposals all day long.
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that wasn't here.
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So, what are you saying?
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I'm kind of reading between the lines here, John, saying that it-- are we saying that a doer marketer should not find themselves buried on page 27 of a complex proposal?
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Is that,
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that's exactly what I'm saying.
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and the reason being is that's not a one-to-many communications
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Ja.
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That is a one-to-one communication channel, which is something that a doer seller should absolutely have a hand in, maybe working in conjunction with a proposal manager.
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but the doer marketers, what I'm saying is no, that's not a good use of your unbillable time because you're not having those conversations on a one-to-many channel.
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in the industries that we operate in, a lot of people, have that big huge pile of business development and marketing's all mixed up and proposals and everything else.
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and we don't want, to create another term for, the doer marketer.
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We don't wanna create another term just for another person who's out there working on proposals all day long, because that's not what we're talking about here, right?
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We're talking about something very different a shift, right?
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A different way of looking at it, for sure.
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Yeah.
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And just one thing that I wanted to double down on with the conducting market research and how that flows into content real quick.
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So, we talk about curiosity being an important skill in the sales process, but I think curiosity can be a very important force multiplier on the marketing side of things as well.
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And market research is essentially the application of curiosity, right?
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In a marketing sense.
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So you're going out, you could be interviewing clients or interviewing target prospects about, their experience, their challenges, the benefits that they get from working with a service provider like you.
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This could take the form of surveys, but essentially you're leaning into your curiosity from a foundational understanding of your expertise, and that's a powerful combination.
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So if you can apply that curiosity in market research, that leads to content that you can use to write about, to speak about, to share with your network.
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Yeah.
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Good.
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Good.
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I like that.
00:21:08.594 --> 00:21:13.193
That's a, that's a, a good sort of add to that whole market research thing for sure.
00:21:13.243 --> 00:21:20.804
and typically, doer marketer would do that in conjunction with either a third party, an outside party or their, internal marketing team for sure.
00:21:20.804 --> 00:21:26.163
But yeah, I can totally see how those sort of surveys or market research are connected to curiosity.
00:21:26.213 --> 00:21:26.564
All right.
00:21:26.574 --> 00:21:30.874
So we've painted a pretty picture of this new term, John, this doer marketer.
00:21:31.013 --> 00:21:40.294
How can firms actually create an environment where this doer marketer role, this person can thrive?
00:21:41.692 --> 00:21:52.281
So I've hinted at it a few times, but there's really a shift in mindset that needs to happen between, the value of the unbillable time that's spent on marketing activities.
00:21:53.221 --> 00:22:03.882
I've seen it time and time again where that's the first on the chopping block when a firm wins a lot of new business and,"Okay, we need to do less on marketing.
00:22:03.882 --> 00:22:05.251
We're full up on clients.
00:22:05.271 --> 00:22:09.481
Let's devote your time, doer marketer, to more of the doing and less of the marketing."
00:22:10.222 --> 00:22:10.282
Ja,
00:22:10.912 --> 00:22:25.882
And there is a hidden opportunity cost associated with that because, there is such a lag between the investment in the content and the marketing that you're doing and when that has an impact on sales pipeline.
00:22:26.422 --> 00:22:45.061
that came to mind as you were talking that through, is that one of the massive challenges with this role is that, you know, with a doer seller, you're going to have a more immediate return because those individuals are closer to the clients, they're closer to the contracts, they're closer to the closed one and then the subsequent revenue.
00:22:45.662 --> 00:22:50.011
These doer marketers are undertaking activities that are pretty far out there.
00:22:50.021 --> 00:22:54.291
You know, we may not see a return on these things for a while, John.
00:22:54.461 --> 00:22:58.172
Heck, a year, a year and a half, like two.
00:22:58.332 --> 00:23:03.892
Like, it can be a long time to see some type of a, measurable return.
00:23:03.902 --> 00:23:07.142
It can be short, but it can be pretty long too.
00:23:07.201 --> 00:23:08.321
So that's a challenge.
00:23:08.789 --> 00:23:18.420
It, it's a challenge and it kind of underscores the importance of strategy really in, in how-- what direction are you pointing your marketing compass?
00:23:18.690 --> 00:23:28.769
Because if you're pointing it in the wrong direction, then even if you are giving all the resources to these doer marketers, I mean, they could end up in the wrong place.
00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:35.410
So setting that compass in the right direction is really critical because marketing can take a while to bear fruit
00:23:36.044 --> 00:23:37.003
Yeah, Totally sense.
00:23:37.104 --> 00:23:37.773
It, makes total sense.
00:23:38.114 --> 00:23:41.064
all right, John, how else can firms support doer marketers?
00:23:42.776 --> 00:23:54.205
All right, so I think, there should be an important distinction on sales goals versus marketing goals, and they both should be treated as important, right?
00:23:54.205 --> 00:23:55.155
So I'll give you an example.
00:23:55.165 --> 00:24:01.715
So a sales goal could be the number of conversations with prospects who represent your ideal client
00:24:01.865 --> 00:24:02.076
Yeah.
00:24:02.115 --> 00:24:03.496
Qualified opportunities.
00:24:03.496 --> 00:24:04.016
Yeah, sure.
00:24:04.115 --> 00:24:06.455
Qualified opportunities, number of conversations with them.
00:24:07.145 --> 00:24:15.326
A marketing goal could be securing brand mentions in three notable industry publications.
00:24:15.622 --> 00:24:15.932
Oh yeah
00:24:16.496 --> 00:24:27.875
Both are really, really important because one is a one-to-one metric on the sales side where you're having those conversations with people who represent the kinds of people you wanna do business with.
00:24:28.205 --> 00:24:45.036
But then there's also the one-to-many communication channels where if your brand is seen in a positive light through a reputable industry publication, chances are your message is reaching hundreds, thousands of prospective clients
00:24:45.471 --> 00:24:52.571
I've always been a fan of trying to establish and then achieve separate marketing goals and separate sales goals.
00:24:52.971 --> 00:24:56.122
inevitably everything just all runs downhill to one big sales goal.
00:24:56.122 --> 00:24:59.011
It's like, did we hit our number this year or did we not hit our number?
00:24:59.291 --> 00:25:04.372
But we can't do that because if you establish different goals at different levels, right?
00:25:04.372 --> 00:25:10.281
Sure, sales goals, but also marketing goals that are kind of higher up in the funnel where they're starting to build familiarity with your firm.
00:25:10.281 --> 00:25:17.711
Starting to build goals around those lets you understand what's happening between the top of the funnel and the bottom of the funnel, right?
00:25:17.711 --> 00:25:20.682
Are we getting a bunch in the top and losing a bunch at the bottom?
00:25:20.731 --> 00:25:22.321
what is the shape of that funnel?
00:25:22.321 --> 00:25:23.172
Is it actually a funnel?
00:25:23.172 --> 00:25:24.001
is it pear-shaped?
00:25:24.001 --> 00:25:24.442
what is it?
00:25:24.521 --> 00:25:25.682
So, for sure.
00:25:26.092 --> 00:25:26.771
Are there leaks?
00:25:26.801 --> 00:25:27.051
Right.
00:25:27.082 --> 00:25:27.612
Exactly.
00:25:27.612 --> 00:25:28.251
So that's good.
00:25:28.281 --> 00:25:28.511
All right.
00:25:28.511 --> 00:25:31.832
what's another thing that comes to mind that firms can do to support these doer marketers?
00:25:32.286 --> 00:25:38.955
Yeah, I think firms need to make it easy for these doer marketers to manage the sales process, right?
00:25:39.218 --> 00:25:39.627
now we're...
00:25:39.738 --> 00:25:40.938
Are we crossing over now?
00:25:40.958 --> 00:25:41.718
Like, what's happening?
00:25:41.728 --> 00:25:41.958
What?
00:25:41.996 --> 00:25:43.205
Marketing leads to sales.
00:25:43.205 --> 00:26:06.655
So I think, yeah, managing that sales process is important because inevitably, if a doer marketer is doing the marketing part of their job to the best that they can and they're having success, they will be generating inbound opportunities, and those inbound opportunities will want to work with that doer marketer, that subject matter expert.
00:26:08.006 --> 00:26:14.826
So the doer marketer is lining themself up to do the work, but they need to close the business.
00:26:15.236 --> 00:26:18.476
So firms need to make that easy for them to do that,
00:26:18.736 --> 00:26:28.066
or, you know, a sales leader, a person who is a true doer seller who is responsible for revenue generation comes alongside them or whatever.
00:26:28.096 --> 00:26:33.385
I mean, those transitions or connections are always a little strange, and we don't tend to favor those.
00:26:33.405 --> 00:26:48.155
But in the instance where you have a doer marketer person who is familiar with the sales prospect, has less sales process but has less confidence in that process, you can pair them with someone who has greater confidence and greater experience in all of that.
00:26:48.165 --> 00:26:50.736
So okay, makes, total sense.
00:26:51.175 --> 00:26:51.596
All right, so
00:26:51.718 --> 00:26:52.087
then to--
00:26:52.236 --> 00:26:52.955
can support them.
00:26:53.548 --> 00:27:11.938
Well, pairing them with, someone else internally or a coach or a consultant who can help them handle that process, but then also arming them with the resources that they need, like proposal templates, three-option pricing table, different variations of that, how to handle contract negotiations.
00:27:11.938 --> 00:27:20.407
like, these are skills and activities that doer marketers may not have a lot of reps at that they could use some coaching for.
00:27:20.675 --> 00:27:21.465
Oh, I see.
00:27:21.465 --> 00:27:24.215
This could almost be a transitional role, right?
00:27:24.215 --> 00:27:43.945
I think the picture you're painting right here is that someone, one of these doer marketers who's really comfortable in the content creation, you know, all of that, you know, the understanding the importance of being a visible authority can actually gain greater and greater sales skills to where, lo and behold, at some point down the road, they're a doer seller, and they have both skills.
00:27:44.115 --> 00:27:44.395
All right.
00:27:44.405 --> 00:27:46.736
So what are people gonna go and do here?
00:27:46.846 --> 00:27:48.556
what's the, what's the homework, John?
00:27:48.714 --> 00:28:00.474
a practical thing to do first, is write down a list of questions that you get asked frequently by your clients, and then answer them in different ways.
00:28:01.055 --> 00:28:03.105
So write the answer to the question.
00:28:03.724 --> 00:28:08.994
Do a selfie video of you reading the question and then answering the question quickly.
00:28:09.384 --> 00:28:24.894
Or if you want to, set up a time with a colleague internally or maybe with someone that you respect or someone that you have a good relationship with, and record a Zoom conversation about that question and try to answer it, go back and forth and have a conversation about it.
00:28:25.355 --> 00:28:32.194
So I think those are some things that you could do first stemming from that list of frequently asked questions.
00:28:32.856 --> 00:28:32.876
Yeah.
00:28:32.906 --> 00:28:42.957
So that's a pretty specific kind of hyper tactical sort of what baby step do you take first or, you know, second that really kind of gets you moving in that, in that direction.
00:28:42.967 --> 00:28:43.606
I think that's great.
00:28:43.606 --> 00:28:52.987
And, you know, for me, the go and do the homework is, is like, look, just take a realistic assessment of where your interests and skills lie inside your organization.
00:28:53.307 --> 00:29:08.727
And if you're just a doer and you're not doing any selling or any marketing, but, you know, lo and behold, you can write, you're curious, you're interested, you wanna go deep, you wanna do some research on something, then this could be something for you, for sure.
00:29:08.727 --> 00:29:15.227
And yes, this could be an entree into becoming a doer seller with more revenue responsibility.
00:29:15.426 --> 00:29:21.596
if you are in a doer seller seat and, maybe it's been frustrating.
00:29:21.646 --> 00:29:28.616
Maybe you're continuing to lack the comfort and confidence that you need in these one-to-one interactions.
00:29:28.886 --> 00:29:38.557
maybe positioning yourself for more of these one-to-many marketing, content creation, activities, will be a more successful seat for you.
00:29:38.626 --> 00:29:45.497
we love the doer sellers, but we don't wanna assume that they're, the end all be all for all the needs of, the modern professional services firm, for sure.
00:29:45.497 --> 00:29:47.017
So there it is, John.
00:29:47.027 --> 00:29:50.287
Doer marketer, uh, trademark, right?
00:29:50.287 --> 00:29:51.936
We've heard, you've heard it here maybe first.
00:29:52.406 --> 00:29:52.807
Maybe.
00:29:53.386 --> 00:30:05.826
but yeah, we think it's an interesting role for people who, you know, maybe are just doers and they wanna do more, or, maybe they're doer sellers and they kind of have an interest in this, this m- crazy marketing thing.
00:30:05.926 --> 00:30:09.396
Or maybe they're doer sellers and they want to generate more leads in a different
00:30:09.474 --> 00:30:10.755
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:10.755 --> 00:30:13.325
They wanna do more lead gen activities higher up in the funnel.
00:30:13.384 --> 00:30:13.625
Good.
00:30:14.005 --> 00:30:15.325
John, this has been a good one.
00:30:15.424 --> 00:30:19.545
all right, to all you future doer marketers out there, go get'em.
00:30:19.835 --> 00:30:21.055
and John, until next time.
00:30:21.886 --> 00:30:22.567
Until next time
00:00:00.100 --> 00:00:03.660
We talk about our friends, the doer sellers, a lot.
00:00:03.673 --> 00:00:06.243
But business development is more than sales.
00:00:06.903 --> 00:00:18.094
Marketing plays a major role in shaping the perception of your firm between and after those curious synchronous sales conversations.
00:00:18.643 --> 00:00:25.083
So how can consultants and subject matter experts contribute to marketing in a meaningful way?
00:00:25.603 --> 00:00:30.094
Is there a whole new term out there to describe all of this?
00:00:31.013 --> 00:00:32.651
Let's talk about it today on the podcast
00:00:52.901 --> 00:00:57.091
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Breaking Biz Dev.
00:00:57.131 --> 00:01:04.070
My name is John Tyreman, and as always, I'm joined by my trusty co-host, Mark Wainwright.
00:01:04.600 --> 00:01:13.561
Mark, I think that there may be a new term, like you teased, that we can use to describe this whole new concept that we're gonna talk about today.
00:01:14.100 --> 00:01:14.540
Yeah.
00:01:14.540 --> 00:01:15.790
we're gonna coin this one.
00:01:16.010 --> 00:01:16.430
who knows?
00:01:16.490 --> 00:01:18.441
I've never heard it before.
00:01:19.361 --> 00:01:25.070
I don't think that you have, and I have no idea why.
00:01:25.081 --> 00:01:27.340
It is totally bizarre.
00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:29.790
and we could be missing something completely, right, John?
00:01:29.831 --> 00:01:32.990
'Cause, you know, it's entirely possible but, you know, I don't
00:01:33.049 --> 00:01:34.888
we're gonna plant our flag on this one.
00:01:35.450 --> 00:01:37.331
Doer marketers, you heard it here first
00:01:38.019 --> 00:01:40.418
There it is, doer marketer.
00:01:40.478 --> 00:01:41.569
It's so funny.
00:01:41.629 --> 00:01:48.188
Everyone that I talk to, John, in the world of professional services, refers to the term business development.
00:01:49.239 --> 00:02:01.828
They talk about marketing, and a lot of times those two things start bleeding into the world of sales, and they never never like to say the word sales, but they're very comfortable using the term doer seller, right?
00:02:01.828 --> 00:02:03.328
It ha- I don't, I don't, I don't even know why.
00:02:03.468 --> 00:02:05.039
I don't even know why people are so comfortable with it
00:02:05.567 --> 00:02:08.777
it's a, it's another one of those four-letter words, right?
00:02:08.918 --> 00:02:10.217
That you just don't wanna say.
00:02:10.217 --> 00:02:11.657
It's, it, we'll dance around it.
00:02:11.657 --> 00:02:17.348
Let's do some marketing, let's do some business development, let's do some outreach, but never let's do some sales
00:02:17.659 --> 00:02:18.849
No, no, no sales.
00:02:18.849 --> 00:02:31.930
But lo and behold, we've never actually heard the term doer marketer, A term that people are so comfortable with, like doer seller, and also people are comfortable with the term marketing.
00:02:32.169 --> 00:02:35.780
Why have we never, ever heard the term doer marketer?
00:02:36.931 --> 00:02:38.632
It's, uh, that, that's a really good question
00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:44.330
So before we get too excited about coining this new term, John, because we may have, but we may not have.
00:02:45.490 --> 00:02:48.800
Let's, slow down a second here, and let's just define exactly what we're talking about.
00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:50.030
Because I think what we're trying to...
00:02:50.409 --> 00:02:54.939
We're gonna talk about something that's a little bit different than the doer seller, right?
00:02:54.979 --> 00:03:03.810
We think this whole term doer marketer is different, and let's maybe define those things, and then let's kind of wade into it.
00:03:04.211 --> 00:03:08.038
first I think it would help to define what we mean by doer seller.
00:03:08.187 --> 00:03:09.008
Should we start there?
00:03:09.563 --> 00:03:15.433
again, we've historically referenced a continuum, a marketing to sales continuum on our podcast.
00:03:15.443 --> 00:03:19.813
Ones are marketing, fives are sales, and we kind of wander in between those two things.
00:03:20.764 --> 00:03:32.264
Many times when we are talking about doer sellers, we are talking about people who are participating in activities that are related to the latter, probably the threes, fours, and fives, right?
00:03:32.313 --> 00:03:46.913
For doer sellers, we're also talking about people who have typically some revenue generation responsibility inside their organizations, and they have the responsibility of also delivering work to their clients.
00:03:46.924 --> 00:03:55.364
So they are people who day in, day out need to balance those two responsibilities, and other responsibilities as we've talked about in the past.
00:03:55.774 --> 00:04:05.984
mainly those two responsibilities of delivering work, doing the work, and selling the work, whether it's new clients or existing client accounts.
00:04:06.294 --> 00:04:09.383
So that's kind of, that's kind of what we're talking about here.
00:04:10.373 --> 00:04:13.609
So what are we talking about with a doer marketer, John?
00:04:14.405 --> 00:04:15.935
Let me take a stab at this one, Mark.
00:04:16.194 --> 00:04:24.125
So I think the share-- the overlap between the two is the shared responsibility to deliver work to clients, right?
00:04:24.574 --> 00:04:29.185
So that's the common ground that these doer marketers share with our doer seller
00:04:29.192 --> 00:04:29.642
I get it.
00:04:29.653 --> 00:04:30.543
The doer part.
00:04:30.733 --> 00:04:31.163
Clear.
00:04:31.435 --> 00:04:31.725
part.
00:04:31.764 --> 00:04:32.165
Yep.
00:04:32.182 --> 00:04:32.202
it.
00:04:32.343 --> 00:04:32.512
Yeah
00:04:33.334 --> 00:04:46.475
Now, to you, I love that you brought in the marketing and sales continuum because we have talked about different activities that do belong on that one to two, and even into that messy middle three area of the marketing to sales continuum.
00:04:46.754 --> 00:04:53.875
But I think that is where our doer marketer friends thrive, is on that end of that spectrum.
00:04:54.264 --> 00:05:08.144
Now, I'm not saying that doer marketers should not understand the sales process, nor should doer marketers not know how to close deals or contract, but that's not their primary focus.
00:05:08.595 --> 00:05:16.185
Their primary focus with their unbillable hours will be to, market the firm as opposed to selling one-to-one
00:05:16.666 --> 00:05:37.476
And the other thing that kind of just springs to mind for me is that, we are not creating a new term for all of our wonderful doer sellers, maybe regrettable doer sellers, to go running towards, Nor do we want every doer seller out there that has some amount of revenue responsibility and they're getting beat over the head for sales to go running towards this new term doer marketer and say,"You know what?
00:05:37.836 --> 00:05:45.326
John and Mark said it's okay for me to be a doer marketer, so I'm just gonna give up on all that other stuff." That's not kind of what we're talking about here.
00:05:45.326 --> 00:05:55.956
and I think that hopefully what people tease out of this is that there are people out there who can operate across the entire spectrum.
00:05:55.956 --> 00:06:02.396
They can do some marketing work and some selling work, and they are still delivering, contracted work to their clients.
00:06:02.396 --> 00:06:19.278
But maybe there are individuals, and quite a few actually, who start to gravitate more towards one or the other because of their skill set or because of their interests and their passions So I think that's kinda, we're not trying to create a safe place for all the doer sellers to run to and say,"I'm not gonna make, I'm not, no revenue.
00:06:19.288 --> 00:06:19.718
Forget it.
00:06:19.728 --> 00:06:39.964
I'm not doing that anymore." but we are, defining, you know, kind of carving out this, this doer marketer role, or opportunity for people to understand and maybe embrace if it, if it actually, you know, leans more towards their, their interests and their expertise.
00:06:40.769 --> 00:06:43.678
Yeah, I like that you brought up what they gravitate towards.
00:06:43.718 --> 00:06:54.389
And there's one distinction that we didn't mention that I think it's worth bringing up is that marketing is very much a one-to-many communication channel, whereas sales is typically more one-to-one.
00:06:54.778 --> 00:06:58.139
And so I think that's a good distinction too to bring, to bring about it.
00:06:58.939 --> 00:06:59.639
Yeah, good point
00:07:00.139 --> 00:07:07.908
So let's wander into why firms should even consider investing in developing doer marketers.
00:07:07.918 --> 00:07:10.838
Like, what's the case from an organizational perspective
00:07:11.274 --> 00:07:16.654
that makes total sense because firms have recognized and invested in their doer sellers.
00:07:16.654 --> 00:07:21.514
They believe that's a good way to spread revenue responsibilities across a lot of people.
00:07:22.204 --> 00:07:39.601
A lot of times firms, are looking at the m-marketing activities largely put on the shoulders of one or two people that,"Oh, by the way, you hear us, the marketers, you guys gotta do everything, but make sure you do all the proposals first, and then you can get to social media and whatever other sort of thousand things that you have on your plate.
00:07:39.682 --> 00:07:53.482
So what we're talking about here is why should firms invest in having doers spend more time and you know, put more effort on this whole marketing thing, probably in partnership with the internal marketing team, right?
00:07:53.562 --> 00:08:12.221
So first things that comes to mind for me, just to kind of jump into our whys here is, you know, we want to establish familiarity with your prospective clients, you know, with your subject matter experts, with your doers, with your technical professionals.
00:08:12.331 --> 00:08:12.922
that's a great one.
00:08:14.122 --> 00:08:20.781
Yeah, I'll probably bring it up a few times on this podcast, but people like to do business with other people they know, like, and trust.
00:08:21.161 --> 00:08:26.221
And we've talked about that sequence on past episodes, but I think it's really important here.
00:08:26.812 --> 00:08:31.552
And, I've done a little bit of research on the history of market research.
00:08:31.922 --> 00:08:38.881
It's a little meta, but there was a business professor at Harvard University, then his name is escaping me right now.
00:08:38.942 --> 00:08:50.231
But, he found that in any given market, doesn't matter what market it is, 50% of the people in that market are satisfied with their status quo.
00:08:50.698 --> 00:08:56.759
45% of people in any given market are open to exploring new ways of solving a problem.
00:08:57.678 --> 00:09:07.048
And then that leaves only about 5% of any given market who are actively on a buying journey to purchasing a service or a product.
00:09:07.658 --> 00:09:21.048
So if we apply this to professional services, marketing's job is to address that 95% of the market that's not actively pursuing a solution right now.
00:09:21.578 --> 00:09:21.859
Right.
00:09:21.869 --> 00:09:42.749
That's that iceberg analogy that we've talked about multiple times is, you know, there's only 5% of the iceberg actually above the waterline, and we've got this huge, massive amount of the iceberg, you know, 95% of it, some of which are sort of open to new ideas, some of which are completely satisfied with their status quo.
00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:48.078
However, satisfaction with the status quo can change in a moment, for sure.
00:09:48.428 --> 00:09:59.572
So we're talking about a huge part of the potential, marketplace, that could sort of, move their attention towards you if they come across the right information.
00:09:59.572 --> 00:10:00.621
So yeah,
00:10:00.881 --> 00:10:13.652
that back to what you were talking about, about familiarity with subject matter experts, that's, you know, addressing that 95% is really about building awareness and staying top of mind, just the mere exposure effect.
00:10:13.652 --> 00:10:16.981
And I, I think we had an episode about that, that people can go check out.
00:10:16.981 --> 00:10:20.902
But just showing up and being familiar, that leads to trust
00:10:21.581 --> 00:10:49.261
So we're taking those doers where we're leveraging their subject matter expertise in a doer marketer role, and we are getting their content out there in front of the individuals who are maybe curious, maybe have a kind of increasing need that hasn't really gotten to the point where they're actively looking for a solution, or others that might be totally fine but may actually move to the,"Oh, you know, maybe it's not all rosy here.
00:10:49.292 --> 00:10:53.091
Maybe we do have a problem that we need some help with." So there's that one.
00:10:53.272 --> 00:11:00.302
what's another reason that firms should be kind of investing or looking at this doer marketer role with some interest?
00:11:01.346 --> 00:11:04.365
Yeah, I like the metric, pipeline velocity.
00:11:04.655 --> 00:11:07.216
or you could look at it as shortening your sales cycle.
00:11:07.225 --> 00:11:12.096
So how long does an opportunity sit in your pipeline, right?
00:11:12.145 --> 00:11:13.416
And measured in time.
00:11:13.615 --> 00:11:18.166
So if you're looking to quantify that, we talked about know, like, and trust.
00:11:18.225 --> 00:11:33.596
Well, opportunities that are generated via visible subject matter experts, they're generated via these doer marketers, those opportunities usually enter that flow between like and trust, right?
00:11:33.605 --> 00:11:45.645
So they're already familiar with you, they know about you, presumably they like the content, the perspectives that you're sharing enough to have a conversation with you to see if they trust you enough to do business with you.
00:11:46.250 --> 00:11:46.529
Yeah,
00:11:46.586 --> 00:11:56.385
And so what that means is you don't have to devote as many resources to winning that business as you would to pursuing a cold lead or opportunity
00:11:56.841 --> 00:11:57.152
Yeah.
00:11:57.162 --> 00:12:07.402
So it's not just the responsibility or the opportunity for the doer seller to try to, expedite and shorten the sales cycle.
00:12:07.572 --> 00:12:16.772
There's actually the possibility of, the stuff that's happening, upstream further up in the funnel with the subject matter experts who are doer sellers.
00:12:16.822 --> 00:12:21.881
There's actually an opportunity for them to impact the length of the sales cycle.
00:12:22.121 --> 00:12:22.402
Cool.
00:12:22.572 --> 00:12:24.051
Yeah, that's a, that's a good one.
00:12:25.508 --> 00:12:29.427
Yeah, I think being a doer marketer can unlock premium pricing.
00:12:30.548 --> 00:12:35.168
And so I think there's a combination of things that have to be true for this to happen.
00:12:35.707 --> 00:12:45.768
So, for a consultant who is investing in the marketing side of things, that side of the spectrum, your thought leadership needs to be visible.
00:12:46.148 --> 00:12:56.258
So doesn't matter what channel you choose, whether it's a podcast or blogging, a newsletter, webinars, et cetera, but your subject matter expertise needs to be visible in some way.
00:12:56.258 --> 00:12:56.807
So that's one.
00:12:57.628 --> 00:12:59.018
Another thing needs to be true.
00:12:59.577 --> 00:13:04.038
Your client success stories are also visible.
00:13:04.748 --> 00:13:24.107
And this is important, and I wanna make that distinction because your thought leadership and your knowledge and expertise is one thing, but having clients kind of putting their stamp of approval on your work or, you know, giving the, a referral or a recommendation for your work is, really impactful too.
00:13:24.577 --> 00:13:33.087
And then the third thing that need to be true for doer marketers to be able to command premium pricing is people need to be engaging with you online.
00:13:33.087 --> 00:13:39.518
So those last two are social proof points, client success stories, and that you've, you're able to do the work.
00:13:39.538 --> 00:13:46.368
But then, you know, are people responding and engaging and validating the perspective that you're putting out there on the web?
00:13:47.028 --> 00:13:47.347
Yeah.
00:13:47.378 --> 00:13:47.888
I totally agree.
00:13:47.888 --> 00:13:48.658
those are great points.
00:13:48.658 --> 00:13:55.768
And the unlocking premium pricing doesn't mean, again, we've mentioned this, that you can go gouge your clients.
00:13:55.768 --> 00:14:12.798
It means that you've done the work and you've positioned yourself where you are a recognized visible authority, and that, you know, if someone doesn't want to pay the price, John, there are other options out in the marketplace that may not be as, you know, skilled or well-regarded or whatever else.
00:14:12.798 --> 00:14:15.347
So sure, you can unlock some premium pricing.
00:14:15.388 --> 00:14:36.210
At a minimum, you can reduce pricing friction, meaning that, you are able to move across a spectrum of pricing and you don't feel the weight of sort of the downward push on price because you have moved yourself away from other potential consultants or experts out there in the marketplace.
00:14:36.220 --> 00:14:37.240
So, Good.
00:14:37.299 --> 00:14:37.830
I like that.
00:14:37.870 --> 00:14:38.129
All right.
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:46.519
So those are a couple things that firms can do to kind of invest, recognize the importance of, and then invest in these doer marketers.
00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:47.909
here's the next chunk here.
00:14:47.909 --> 00:14:52.539
What, what does a doer marketer actually do?
00:14:52.590 --> 00:14:54.970
We've kind of talked about the doer seller.
00:14:55.110 --> 00:14:56.830
We have a pretty good idea what the doer seller does.
00:14:56.830 --> 00:14:59.769
what in the world is the doer marketer doing?
00:15:00.817 --> 00:15:08.567
Yeah, so this is a, a strategic reframe on how unbillable time should be spent, right?
00:15:09.346 --> 00:15:21.966
So if you think about, doer sellers and how they spend unbillable time investing in specific key relationships, looking at prospects, list building, doing prospect research.
00:15:22.397 --> 00:15:25.706
again, very one-to-one focused activities, right?
00:15:26.466 --> 00:15:51.486
Where a doer marketer should invest their unbillable hours is in building a personal brand, is in developing content, doing market research, being the face or the mouthpiece of the firm out there visible on other third-party platforms, other publications, other podcasts.
00:15:51.836 --> 00:15:56.496
So those are the kinds of things that a doer marketer can actually do.
00:15:57.076 --> 00:15:58.726
Yeah, that makes total sense.
00:15:58.726 --> 00:16:06.076
So building the personal brand, that's just not trying to make yourself seem sort of more self-important, right?
00:16:06.106 --> 00:16:16.976
That's, you know, finding an opportunity to share the voice and to support both your personal expertise and the needs, of the organization,
00:16:17.551 --> 00:16:20.191
Yeah, so I wanna double down on that one a little bit because
00:16:20.193 --> 00:16:20.354
Ja,
00:16:21.681 --> 00:16:37.850
I've run into the scenario where, firm leadership starts to question whether or not there is an over-investment in a personal brand of an expert on staff, and at what point should we be promoting the firm brand?
00:16:38.770 --> 00:16:41.870
And I think it goes back to what we mentioned earlier.
00:16:42.041 --> 00:16:45.921
People like to do business with other people they know, like, and trust.
00:16:46.250 --> 00:16:48.971
People like to do business with people.
00:16:49.561 --> 00:16:51.400
Like, we could just stop right there.
00:16:51.600 --> 00:17:04.340
And if you look at, um, y- look, look at how many followers does Elon Musk have on Twitter compared to SpaceX or compared to Tesla?
00:17:04.826 --> 00:17:11.436
probably too many, you know, all, all of m- maybe, may- may- maybe my personal opinions that are coming into to bear on that one.
00:17:11.436 --> 00:17:17.116
But yeah, I, I'm, I'm guessing he's got a lot more personal followers than he does sort of organizational followers
00:17:17.499 --> 00:17:17.648
Yeah.
00:17:17.648 --> 00:17:25.578
I think that's the whole, like it's an oversimplification, but I think that just kinda is in support of that point where people just wanna do business with other people.
00:17:25.578 --> 00:17:28.749
People would rather do business with a face rather than a logo
00:17:30.336 --> 00:17:32.165
You're listening to breaking biz dev
00:17:32.332 --> 00:17:38.704
the podcast that beats up, breaks down, and redefines business development for the professional services firms of tomorrow.
00:17:38.835 --> 00:17:46.375
Your hosts are John Tyerman, founder of Red Cedar Marketing, the podcast marketing company for experts and professional services firms,
00:17:46.592 --> 00:17:56.124
And Mark Wainwright, principal consultant and founder of Wainwright Insight, the fractional sales manager and sales consultant to professional services firms.
00:17:56.405 --> 00:18:01.905
If you find this podcast helpful, please help us by following the show and leaving a review on Apple podcasts
00:18:02.263 --> 00:18:04.003
and now back to the show.
00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:23.820
Yeah, John, I know you're gonna get the data or you have it at your fingertips but, sort of just anecdotally, it is dramatically harder for an organization to build some level of trust with, their audience or with individuals than it is an individual, a person, right?
00:18:23.851 --> 00:18:27.240
I mean, because there's that whole sort of human connection thing.
00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:35.471
So it's dramatically easier for people, individuals, to build that trust that then kind of transfers actually to the organization, right?
00:18:35.471 --> 00:18:41.830
They make a real nice tight connection between, I've got a relationship with that person, that person is associated with this organization.
00:18:42.010 --> 00:18:44.351
I transfer that trust to the organization.
00:18:44.361 --> 00:18:44.760
For sure.
00:18:44.780 --> 00:18:46.070
that one makes a ton of sense.
00:18:46.411 --> 00:18:50.441
And you mentioned content and market research and all those things.
00:18:50.590 --> 00:18:56.381
John, what was painfully, absent from your list here was working on proposals all day long.
00:18:57.221 --> 00:18:57.701
that wasn't here.
00:18:57.701 --> 00:18:58.550
So, what are you saying?
00:18:58.560 --> 00:19:06.590
I'm kind of reading between the lines here, John, saying that it-- are we saying that a doer marketer should not find themselves buried on page 27 of a complex proposal?
00:19:06.770 --> 00:19:07.141
Is that,
00:19:07.432 --> 00:19:08.883
that's exactly what I'm saying.
00:19:08.932 --> 00:19:13.573
and the reason being is that's not a one-to-many communications
00:19:14.132 --> 00:19:14.231
Ja.
00:19:14.883 --> 00:19:23.663
That is a one-to-one communication channel, which is something that a doer seller should absolutely have a hand in, maybe working in conjunction with a proposal manager.
00:19:24.143 --> 00:19:33.653
but the doer marketers, what I'm saying is no, that's not a good use of your unbillable time because you're not having those conversations on a one-to-many channel.
00:19:34.163 --> 00:19:45.827
in the industries that we operate in, a lot of people, have that big huge pile of business development and marketing's all mixed up and proposals and everything else.
00:19:45.877 --> 00:19:50.847
and we don't want, to create another term for, the doer marketer.
00:19:50.867 --> 00:19:59.087
We don't wanna create another term just for another person who's out there working on proposals all day long, because that's not what we're talking about here, right?
00:19:59.087 --> 00:20:01.478
We're talking about something very different a shift, right?
00:20:01.498 --> 00:20:02.968
A different way of looking at it, for sure.
00:20:03.685 --> 00:20:03.996
Yeah.
00:20:04.486 --> 00:20:11.016
And just one thing that I wanted to double down on with the conducting market research and how that flows into content real quick.
00:20:11.016 --> 00:20:23.766
So, we talk about curiosity being an important skill in the sales process, but I think curiosity can be a very important force multiplier on the marketing side of things as well.
00:20:24.215 --> 00:20:30.105
And market research is essentially the application of curiosity, right?
00:20:30.306 --> 00:20:31.185
In a marketing sense.
00:20:31.195 --> 00:20:42.056
So you're going out, you could be interviewing clients or interviewing target prospects about, their experience, their challenges, the benefits that they get from working with a service provider like you.
00:20:42.615 --> 00:20:54.066
This could take the form of surveys, but essentially you're leaning into your curiosity from a foundational understanding of your expertise, and that's a powerful combination.
00:20:54.066 --> 00:21:06.276
So if you can apply that curiosity in market research, that leads to content that you can use to write about, to speak about, to share with your network.
00:21:06.703 --> 00:21:06.963
Yeah.
00:21:07.124 --> 00:21:07.403
Good.
00:21:07.824 --> 00:21:08.054
Good.
00:21:08.114 --> 00:21:08.594
I like that.
00:21:08.594 --> 00:21:13.193
That's a, that's a, a good sort of add to that whole market research thing for sure.
00:21:13.243 --> 00:21:20.804
and typically, doer marketer would do that in conjunction with either a third party, an outside party or their, internal marketing team for sure.
00:21:20.804 --> 00:21:26.163
But yeah, I can totally see how those sort of surveys or market research are connected to curiosity.
00:21:26.213 --> 00:21:26.564
All right.
00:21:26.574 --> 00:21:30.874
So we've painted a pretty picture of this new term, John, this doer marketer.
00:21:31.013 --> 00:21:40.294
How can firms actually create an environment where this doer marketer role, this person can thrive?
00:21:41.692 --> 00:21:52.281
So I've hinted at it a few times, but there's really a shift in mindset that needs to happen between, the value of the unbillable time that's spent on marketing activities.
00:21:53.221 --> 00:22:03.882
I've seen it time and time again where that's the first on the chopping block when a firm wins a lot of new business and,"Okay, we need to do less on marketing.
00:22:03.882 --> 00:22:05.251
We're full up on clients.
00:22:05.271 --> 00:22:09.481
Let's devote your time, doer marketer, to more of the doing and less of the marketing."
00:22:10.222 --> 00:22:10.282
Ja,
00:22:10.912 --> 00:22:25.882
And there is a hidden opportunity cost associated with that because, there is such a lag between the investment in the content and the marketing that you're doing and when that has an impact on sales pipeline.
00:22:26.422 --> 00:22:45.061
that came to mind as you were talking that through, is that one of the massive challenges with this role is that, you know, with a doer seller, you're going to have a more immediate return because those individuals are closer to the clients, they're closer to the contracts, they're closer to the closed one and then the subsequent revenue.
00:22:45.662 --> 00:22:50.011
These doer marketers are undertaking activities that are pretty far out there.
00:22:50.021 --> 00:22:54.291
You know, we may not see a return on these things for a while, John.
00:22:54.461 --> 00:22:58.172
Heck, a year, a year and a half, like two.
00:22:58.332 --> 00:23:03.892
Like, it can be a long time to see some type of a, measurable return.
00:23:03.902 --> 00:23:07.142
It can be short, but it can be pretty long too.
00:23:07.201 --> 00:23:08.321
So that's a challenge.
00:23:08.789 --> 00:23:18.420
It, it's a challenge and it kind of underscores the importance of strategy really in, in how-- what direction are you pointing your marketing compass?
00:23:18.690 --> 00:23:28.769
Because if you're pointing it in the wrong direction, then even if you are giving all the resources to these doer marketers, I mean, they could end up in the wrong place.
00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:35.410
So setting that compass in the right direction is really critical because marketing can take a while to bear fruit
00:23:36.044 --> 00:23:37.003
Yeah, Totally sense.
00:23:37.104 --> 00:23:37.773
It, makes total sense.
00:23:38.114 --> 00:23:41.064
all right, John, how else can firms support doer marketers?
00:23:42.776 --> 00:23:54.205
All right, so I think, there should be an important distinction on sales goals versus marketing goals, and they both should be treated as important, right?
00:23:54.205 --> 00:23:55.155
So I'll give you an example.
00:23:55.165 --> 00:24:01.715
So a sales goal could be the number of conversations with prospects who represent your ideal client
00:24:01.865 --> 00:24:02.076
Yeah.
00:24:02.115 --> 00:24:03.496
Qualified opportunities.
00:24:03.496 --> 00:24:04.016
Yeah, sure.
00:24:04.115 --> 00:24:06.455
Qualified opportunities, number of conversations with them.
00:24:07.145 --> 00:24:15.326
A marketing goal could be securing brand mentions in three notable industry publications.
00:24:15.622 --> 00:24:15.932
Oh yeah
00:24:16.496 --> 00:24:27.875
Both are really, really important because one is a one-to-one metric on the sales side where you're having those conversations with people who represent the kinds of people you wanna do business with.
00:24:28.205 --> 00:24:45.036
But then there's also the one-to-many communication channels where if your brand is seen in a positive light through a reputable industry publication, chances are your message is reaching hundreds, thousands of prospective clients
00:24:45.471 --> 00:24:52.571
I've always been a fan of trying to establish and then achieve separate marketing goals and separate sales goals.
00:24:52.971 --> 00:24:56.122
inevitably everything just all runs downhill to one big sales goal.
00:24:56.122 --> 00:24:59.011
It's like, did we hit our number this year or did we not hit our number?
00:24:59.291 --> 00:25:04.372
But we can't do that because if you establish different goals at different levels, right?
00:25:04.372 --> 00:25:10.281
Sure, sales goals, but also marketing goals that are kind of higher up in the funnel where they're starting to build familiarity with your firm.
00:25:10.281 --> 00:25:17.711
Starting to build goals around those lets you understand what's happening between the top of the funnel and the bottom of the funnel, right?
00:25:17.711 --> 00:25:20.682
Are we getting a bunch in the top and losing a bunch at the bottom?
00:25:20.731 --> 00:25:22.321
what is the shape of that funnel?
00:25:22.321 --> 00:25:23.172
Is it actually a funnel?
00:25:23.172 --> 00:25:24.001
is it pear-shaped?
00:25:24.001 --> 00:25:24.442
what is it?
00:25:24.521 --> 00:25:25.682
So, for sure.
00:25:26.092 --> 00:25:26.771
Are there leaks?
00:25:26.801 --> 00:25:27.051
Right.
00:25:27.082 --> 00:25:27.612
Exactly.
00:25:27.612 --> 00:25:28.251
So that's good.
00:25:28.281 --> 00:25:28.511
All right.
00:25:28.511 --> 00:25:31.832
what's another thing that comes to mind that firms can do to support these doer marketers?
00:25:32.286 --> 00:25:38.955
Yeah, I think firms need to make it easy for these doer marketers to manage the sales process, right?
00:25:39.218 --> 00:25:39.627
now we're...
00:25:39.738 --> 00:25:40.938
Are we crossing over now?
00:25:40.958 --> 00:25:41.718
Like, what's happening?
00:25:41.728 --> 00:25:41.958
What?
00:25:41.996 --> 00:25:43.205
Marketing leads to sales.
00:25:43.205 --> 00:26:06.655
So I think, yeah, managing that sales process is important because inevitably, if a doer marketer is doing the marketing part of their job to the best that they can and they're having success, they will be generating inbound opportunities, and those inbound opportunities will want to work with that doer marketer, that subject matter expert.
00:26:08.006 --> 00:26:14.826
So the doer marketer is lining themself up to do the work, but they need to close the business.
00:26:15.236 --> 00:26:18.476
So firms need to make that easy for them to do that,
00:26:18.736 --> 00:26:28.066
or, you know, a sales leader, a person who is a true doer seller who is responsible for revenue generation comes alongside them or whatever.
00:26:28.096 --> 00:26:33.385
I mean, those transitions or connections are always a little strange, and we don't tend to favor those.
00:26:33.405 --> 00:26:48.155
But in the instance where you have a doer marketer person who is familiar with the sales prospect, has less sales process but has less confidence in that process, you can pair them with someone who has greater confidence and greater experience in all of that.
00:26:48.165 --> 00:26:50.736
So okay, makes, total sense.
00:26:51.175 --> 00:26:51.596
All right, so
00:26:51.718 --> 00:26:52.087
then to--
00:26:52.236 --> 00:26:52.955
can support them.
00:26:53.548 --> 00:27:11.938
Well, pairing them with, someone else internally or a coach or a consultant who can help them handle that process, but then also arming them with the resources that they need, like proposal templates, three-option pricing table, different variations of that, how to handle contract negotiations.
00:27:11.938 --> 00:27:20.407
like, these are skills and activities that doer marketers may not have a lot of reps at that they could use some coaching for.
00:27:20.675 --> 00:27:21.465
Oh, I see.
00:27:21.465 --> 00:27:24.215
This could almost be a transitional role, right?
00:27:24.215 --> 00:27:43.945
I think the picture you're painting right here is that someone, one of these doer marketers who's really comfortable in the content creation, you know, all of that, you know, the understanding the importance of being a visible authority can actually gain greater and greater sales skills to where, lo and behold, at some point down the road, they're a doer seller, and they have both skills.
00:27:44.115 --> 00:27:44.395
All right.
00:27:44.405 --> 00:27:46.736
So what are people gonna go and do here?
00:27:46.846 --> 00:27:48.556
what's the, what's the homework, John?
00:27:48.714 --> 00:28:00.474
a practical thing to do first, is write down a list of questions that you get asked frequently by your clients, and then answer them in different ways.
00:28:01.055 --> 00:28:03.105
So write the answer to the question.
00:28:03.724 --> 00:28:08.994
Do a selfie video of you reading the question and then answering the question quickly.
00:28:09.384 --> 00:28:24.894
Or if you want to, set up a time with a colleague internally or maybe with someone that you respect or someone that you have a good relationship with, and record a Zoom conversation about that question and try to answer it, go back and forth and have a conversation about it.
00:28:25.355 --> 00:28:32.194
So I think those are some things that you could do first stemming from that list of frequently asked questions.
00:28:32.856 --> 00:28:32.876
Yeah.
00:28:32.906 --> 00:28:42.957
So that's a pretty specific kind of hyper tactical sort of what baby step do you take first or, you know, second that really kind of gets you moving in that, in that direction.
00:28:42.967 --> 00:28:43.606
I think that's great.
00:28:43.606 --> 00:28:52.987
And, you know, for me, the go and do the homework is, is like, look, just take a realistic assessment of where your interests and skills lie inside your organization.
00:28:53.307 --> 00:29:08.727
And if you're just a doer and you're not doing any selling or any marketing, but, you know, lo and behold, you can write, you're curious, you're interested, you wanna go deep, you wanna do some research on something, then this could be something for you, for sure.
00:29:08.727 --> 00:29:15.227
And yes, this could be an entree into becoming a doer seller with more revenue responsibility.
00:29:15.426 --> 00:29:21.596
if you are in a doer seller seat and, maybe it's been frustrating.
00:29:21.646 --> 00:29:28.616
Maybe you're continuing to lack the comfort and confidence that you need in these one-to-one interactions.
00:29:28.886 --> 00:29:38.557
maybe positioning yourself for more of these one-to-many marketing, content creation, activities, will be a more successful seat for you.
00:29:38.626 --> 00:29:45.497
we love the doer sellers, but we don't wanna assume that they're, the end all be all for all the needs of, the modern professional services firm, for sure.
00:29:45.497 --> 00:29:47.017
So there it is, John.
00:29:47.027 --> 00:29:50.287
Doer marketer, uh, trademark, right?
00:29:50.287 --> 00:29:51.936
We've heard, you've heard it here maybe first.
00:29:52.406 --> 00:29:52.807
Maybe.
00:29:53.386 --> 00:30:05.826
but yeah, we think it's an interesting role for people who, you know, maybe are just doers and they wanna do more, or, maybe they're doer sellers and they kind of have an interest in this, this m- crazy marketing thing.
00:30:05.926 --> 00:30:09.396
Or maybe they're doer sellers and they want to generate more leads in a different
00:30:09.474 --> 00:30:10.755
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:10.755 --> 00:30:13.325
They wanna do more lead gen activities higher up in the funnel.
00:30:13.384 --> 00:30:13.625
Good.
00:30:14.005 --> 00:30:15.325
John, this has been a good one.
00:30:15.424 --> 00:30:19.545
all right, to all you future doer marketers out there, go get'em.
00:30:19.835 --> 00:30:21.055
and John, until next time.
00:30:21.886 --> 00:30:22.567
Until next time
