Approaching Athletic Development & Competition in Children Ages 7-10 (Skills & Mini Milestones) with Chandler Lewis

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All right, welcome to the Inside the Wave
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podcast, where we have super weird conversations
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before the podcast starts, but I love it
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every single time. I am here with Chandler
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Lewis, and we're on our second episode of
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our four-part series talking about kids as
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they grow up through athletic programs and
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how to approach working with them as parents
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and coaches, but how to import, import, how
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to approach competition, which yourself as
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a swim club owner and a sports psychologist
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seems to be right in your wheelhouse. Right.
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So if you didn't catch our intros earlier,
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I'm Perry. I'm the owner of Utopia Martial
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Arts. We're a martial arts school in Grafton.
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We have about 200 kids in our program. Chandler,
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you want to talk about your non-jiu-jitsu
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club?
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I own and coach at the Schrader Swim Team,
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and then also I'm a CMPC or Certified Mental
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Performance Consultant for Championship Mind,
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which is a consultant business for sports
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psychology.
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Let's talk about Schrader and its kind of
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claim to fame, right? It's a pretty big club.
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Yeah. Schrader was built in 1982, I believe.
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You've been running it for that long. Yeah.
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You don't look like day over, how old are
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you, probably 28? I'm 29. That was close,
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10 years younger than me. Very close.
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But it was built in 1982 and it was like
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at that time. It was world-renowned where
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it was the first 50 meter pool and yeah,
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especially in this region But there were
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similar around the country like University,
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Minnesota took the template of Schrader and
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built their now awesome big pool and It is
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held US Nationals juniors collegiate NCAA
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championships, there's been world records
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set at the pool and Yeah. And it's been a
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kind of a staple in the swimming community.
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I get any time I go throughout the country,
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like Schrader. Oh, I swam there. It's like
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a very staple in our community.
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I remember even growing up, like when I was
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doing, we were talking about on the last
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episode, how we both did swim lessons at
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Cedarburg pool. But I remember the kids at
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Cedarburg pool being like, Oh, I go to Schrader.
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It is that prestigious. You do everything
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from five-year-olds to Olympic hopefuls.
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What age do you guys typically stop?
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Honestly, we have a sweet we have our competition
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program where like we'll have post grads
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Currently right now and this is interesting
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is we have a college athlete That swam at
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University, Wisconsin. It was the fast going
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into college. He was the fastest recruit
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in the hunter backstroke in his class He
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made the Pan American team. Sir.
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Mac won all thanks to your coaching. I
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a combination of a lot of efforts, but he
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goes to Wisconsin, he does well, but not
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at the level that we all knew that he could.
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He ended up, they got a new coach, he ended
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up transferring, going through the transfer
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portal, and he settled on Seminole University,
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Wisconsin, Milwaukee. However, he's gonna
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train with us, which is a very not normal
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thing. He already will have school records.
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He will go to NCAA championships. So for
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the school standpoint, really big opportunity.
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but he feels connected to the Schrader program
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being his best place to train, which I think
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just shows what we provide for athletes.
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Not saying that we're the best coaches, but
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I think that we provide a lot for high school
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and post-graduates, uh, eventually the goal,
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and it has always been the goal is being
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able to host and have postgraduate athletes
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that are competing for Olympics. And there
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could be a hub in this area for professional
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types.
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It's such a cool mission. You guys are on.
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Um, and I know we're not talking about, uh,
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that age group today, like the high school
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and beyond, which is going to be a really
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fun podcast. I'm excited for that one. But
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today we're talking about seven to 10 year
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olds, right? Uh, that like golden age of
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motor learning skills, like such cool stuff
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starts happening with competition in that
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age group. You know, myself watching jiu-jitsu,
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it's like, that's where kids jiu-jitsu starts
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looking good. Right? Like they started looking
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like little athletes at that age. Um, five
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and six was fun. right? That was our last
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podcast. It's like getting their toes wet
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in competition, getting them used to sport.
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But seven to 10. That's where a lot of like
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magic happens. So we're gonna follow the
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same format that we did last time where we
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start talking about the developmental stages
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of the kids these age, right pies, the athletic
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development, and then how those two end up
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being the building blocks to approaching
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competition. how to approach competition,
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and a lot of practical tips for parents and
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coaches to take home if you're a parent of
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kids these ages, 7 to 10, or if you're a
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coach for kids ages 7 to 10. So let's talk
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ages of development. And I break this down
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smaller because this is kind of what we do
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at our academy, but I did 7 to 8 year olds
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and 9 to 10. Even though we're clumping these
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together from a competition standpoint, physically,
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intellectually, emotionally and socially,
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that's our pies. There's a huge difference
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between a seven year old and a 10 year old.
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And we need to remember, these are all based
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on like a curve, right? Some kids might be
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very well physically above the curve, right
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above average, and they might be behind emotionally.
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And understanding these building blocks is
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important because you as a coach, coaching
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that athlete is going to be much different.
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And we might need to focus on different things
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and different strategies, right? If we're
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able to work with a kid who's 7, but we identify
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that physically they're 9, maybe intellectually
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they're 9, but emotionally and socially they're
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still 7, or maybe even 6, it's totally different.
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So let's talk about physical, 7 and 8-year-olds.
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weak, fine motor control. They still stumble
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and it's very dynamic moves. Their technique
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can be shaky, but typically only gets shaky
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when they start pushing it. Right. So in
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controlled environments, they do really well.
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But when they're trying to go fast, their
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technique starts failing. I'm going to use
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the golf analogy, right? When I learned how
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to golf, just crush the ball. Swing that
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club as fast as possible. All your technique
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goes away. And that's probably the age I
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was golfing at. So that's a big thing that
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we need to focus on for 7 and 8. 9 to 10,
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that technique starts getting even more solid.
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The agility gets solid. The problem is sometimes
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you start getting lazy. So they're good.
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They're just not trying that hard.
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Cause they're like, well, why should I?
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Right. And that does lead to sloppy basics.
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What do you see in the pool? Um, and your
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athletic trainer, you guys do pool and, you
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know, land training as well, but like. physically
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from kids these ages, like what are you seeing?
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Yeah, I mean, there's obviously a big difference
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between seven and 10 year olds, but seven
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to eight year olds, I feel are starting to
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understand the sport differently, like mechanically.
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Yeah. Like you can start talking to a seven
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to eight year old, technically, a little
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bit more.
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Yeah, it's like, it's not just about like,
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Who's trying harder. Right. When you're younger,
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sometimes it's just like who tries harder
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and goes like literally moves their body.
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The fastest is going to win, but they could
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start realizing like technique matters.
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Yeah. And they have a greater understanding
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of technique. You know, by the time, I believe
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that if the kid was on some team in five
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and six and now they're progressing to seven,
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eight, they've obviously for us, they've
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switched groups. So they went from the pre
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some team or the introduction to some team
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into, okay, now you're in a, we call it trader
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stars or superstars or, um, uh, That's a
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progression in groups. So they're in the
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water longer. Practice is longer.
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Well, because they're strong, like they're
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strong enough for it, right? Like little
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kids, they just don't have enough caloric
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expenditure and strength to be at practice
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that long. And when you're not at practice
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that long and you don't have that attention
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span, you can't develop as much technique.
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Right. Um, so that's freeing to you as a
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coach. Yeah. Awesome. What else are you seeing?
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Well, I think for us, it's like that now
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begins the formalization of practice. Like
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now we're getting into some practice that's
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every day, this is what we do. We start off
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like this and then we go into our warmup
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and then we're gonna work on these skills
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and maybe today is this type of day. It's
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like practice isn't as random or there's
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a little bit more time spent on the formalization
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of like, not training, but practice.
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It's more, it's a little bit more disciplined.
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Yes. More disciplined. They're introducing
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bigger skills, harder skills, technical skills.
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And then, you know, like kids are racing
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more often, so we need to have an understanding
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of racing and how that works. And, um, at
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five and six, you're just trying to introduce
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those. They're intellectually, they're, they're
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completely different.
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Yeah, which brings us to intellectual, right?
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Seven and eight, very smart. They are sponges.
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They are sponges that are easily distracted.
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Yep. Right? For sure. They can often overthink,
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and sometimes they forget the simplest of
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things, which is challenging. Yeah. Right?
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Nine to 10, they finally start developing
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some critical thinking. Uh, their decision-making
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isn't the fastest, right? They can make decisions,
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but it takes a while to do it. Um, I don't
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know if that shows up in the pool. Definitely
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shows up in jiu-jitsu match. Like if you're
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slow at making a decision, the other person
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just took you down. Um, And the other intellectual
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challenge for 9 to 10 is they'll start prioritizing
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effort. They'll pick the easy way sometimes,
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not the way that's going to require more
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effort. And when you're in practice and you
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try to cheat at doing the easy way, you don't
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develop the way that you should. How does
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that show up in the pool for you?
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Uh, I think the big intellectual change for
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us, especially from five to six, seven and
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eight, it's like, obviously you're introducing
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the technical and tactical things within
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race strategy, but seven to eight to nine
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and 10, nine and 10 year olds will be able
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to formulate a race plan, execute a race
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plan, and then review that race plan after
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the race.
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Let's talk about, because I don't even know.
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I mean, I can guess what a race plan is,
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but like, what is an example of a race plan?
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So like, for example, let's say I'm swimming
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a hundred backstroke, a race plan could be
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something like, I'm going to get out fast
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and relax. I'm going to try to make a move
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on the third 25. And then I'm going to maintain
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four dolphin kicks off each wall. That's
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a very basic race plan. And a nine and 10
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year old can spit that out. Yeah. they can
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formulate that on their own. They will need
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some support, like, hey, what's our race
11:40.877 --> 11:43.419
plan? I'm not really sure, and then you can
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spit it back, and they'll accept it, and
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they'll try and execute it, and then afterwards,
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they will be able to come back and say, I
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didn't go out fast enough, I need to make
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sure that I go attack the first 25 better.
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9 and 10-year-olds can do that. 7 and 8-year-olds
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are not there yet. They might say something
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like, it didn't feel fast or whatever, but
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9 and 10 is a big learning group.
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Same thing for us. 7 and 8, they know a bunch
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of techniques. They don't know how to necessarily
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assemble them.
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Yeah, and like the reviewing the post race
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review. Yeah, with a nine 10 year old is
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going to be completely different between
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a seven year old seven eight year olds like
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nice job high five. Yeah, walk away nine
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and 10 year old. There might be some emotion
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mixed in it now. And now you got to walk.
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Well, why didn't that work? Well, well, let's
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talk through it. There's going to be some,
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like the communication piece is much bigger.
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And I think that's a big change. And similarly
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with practice too, nine and 10 year olds
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are starting to quote unquote train. In our
12:49.104 --> 12:53.246
program, we value technically, but there's
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coaches out there in the swimming world where
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they believe now's the time to throw in the
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aerobic base and develop the aerobic base
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before puberty. My experience as an athlete,
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at 10 years old, I was swimming five to six
13:11.918 --> 13:13.799
times a week for an hour and a half, and
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training. Yeah. We try to limit that. There
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is some exposure to like, we're going to
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do some repeats. We're going to stay on intervals.
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Yep. Like you can start developing that at
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nine, 10 at eight, we're not doing intervals.
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All right. Is there, so when a kid goes to
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a swim meet and just general question, from
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my knowledge, do they know how many races
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they're going to have to do? Yeah. Okay.
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So it's kind of predictable on how much the
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challenge in jiu-jitsu is like when you go
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to a tournament, if you're in a division
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with three or you're in division with 10,
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you don't know what your base needs to be.
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Right.
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Yeah. Um, you also don't know because. Matches
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are a variable amount of time, you know,
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maybe for that age group, like three minutes.
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But if you win right away, you don't have
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to do all three minutes. So if you have five
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minutes, but all five matches go the distance,
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like your aerobic pace needs to be a lot
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better. right, so like you you probably really
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only need to get them to Like minimal viable
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aerobic base.
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Yeah, and I think the idea of training a
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nine and ten-year-old I They don't have to
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be workhorses. There's no way that you're
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like, oh, we're developing speed for this
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ten-year-old but there's coaches that think
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that way and I parents 150% where it's like
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this idea of developing bases and speed and
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they need to train more. But that's a big
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change is like the seven, eight year old
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group. We are not training. We're not, maybe
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there's some intervals, but like at the nine,
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10 group, they're going to get introduced
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into intervals and like, we're going to mix
14:52.931 --> 14:54.812
it up with different type of volumes and
14:55.152 --> 14:58.133
yeah. Um, it's definitely an increase in
14:58.213 --> 15:00.574
like the intellectual side of like knowing
15:00.614 --> 15:02.575
how practice and training works.
15:03.055 --> 15:05.415
We, you know, it's more on the physical side,
15:05.455 --> 15:07.036
but like that is the age where at least in
15:07.076 --> 15:08.916
my competition class, because we have we
15:08.936 --> 15:11.517
have two classes for kids at art academy,
15:11.597 --> 15:13.518
right? We have our explorers program, which
15:13.578 --> 15:15.878
is really for someone to truly explore Brazilian
15:15.898 --> 15:17.939
jiu jitsu, learn the self defense side of
15:18.039 --> 15:19.679
it. But then we have a competition side where
15:19.699 --> 15:22.620
we take the the martial art and do the sport
15:22.680 --> 15:25.881
side of the martial art. And in my advanced
15:26.321 --> 15:27.622
Competition class like that's when we'll
15:27.642 --> 15:30.244
start doing some like workouts at that age
15:30.544 --> 15:32.946
But they're all like competitive fun workouts
15:32.986 --> 15:34.787
that the kids like it's not like hey, we're
15:34.807 --> 15:37.669
not just gonna roll run wind sprints Right
15:38.210 --> 15:41.592
try to hide them at least a little bit Yeah
15:41.612 --> 15:43.513
through games like relay races and stuff
15:43.553 --> 15:45.034
like that. Like there's other ways to build
15:45.075 --> 15:49.117
that aerobic base. That's not just a laps.
15:49.317 --> 15:51.559
Yeah, definitely not. And I don't think that's
15:52.260 --> 15:54.021
the correct way of long term.
15:54.161 --> 15:55.622
And if you do that, it brings us to the next
15:55.702 --> 15:58.044
one. It's like the emotional stages of development.
15:58.565 --> 16:01.407
Again, much different between these two age
16:01.447 --> 16:05.305
groups. Seven and eight year olds, you know,
16:05.325 --> 16:07.066
compared to the younger ages, they're a lot
16:07.146 --> 16:09.448
more emotionally stable. They are starting
16:09.468 --> 16:13.771
to learn how to communicate their emotions,
16:14.271 --> 16:16.553
but they also, because of where they're at
16:16.733 --> 16:19.856
socially, they'll sometimes develop big emotions
16:19.876 --> 16:24.059
when they're put on the spot. Um, nine to
15:54.161 --> 16:26.081
10, a lot of their motivation that we need
16:26.101 --> 16:28.824
to work around is like just motivational
16:28.964 --> 16:31.606
swings, like high motivation, low motivation,
16:31.886 --> 16:33.428
and they're very motivated by their peers
16:33.768 --> 16:38.472
and what their peers think. Um, What do you
16:38.532 --> 16:40.514
notice as a sports psychologist? Cause this
16:40.574 --> 16:42.235
is kind of like your sweet spot, right?
16:42.255 --> 16:45.797
This is when the, I think this is when. Emotions
16:45.917 --> 16:49.920
start playing into especially competition.
16:50.140 --> 16:52.502
Yeah. Like it could be a huge, like that's,
16:52.582 --> 16:54.083
that's why you win or lose, right? You will,
16:54.243 --> 16:56.404
you can go to any summit throughout the country.
16:56.584 --> 16:58.646
Doesn't matter what the level is. If you
16:58.686 --> 17:01.067
go to a nine and 10, even 78 year old swimming,
17:01.548 --> 17:04.710
you will see crying. Oh yeah. Big time. Yeah.
17:05.130 --> 17:07.592
Like you will see enormous amount of crying.
17:08.032 --> 17:11.595
And is it just when kids lose, or is it like
17:11.635 --> 17:14.137
the pre-competition jitter cries too?
17:14.578 --> 17:16.679
I think it's a combination of things. Obviously,
17:16.719 --> 17:18.281
there's kids that are nervous to compete.
17:18.821 --> 17:21.664
That's definitely a thing. Normally though,
17:21.724 --> 17:24.326
the crying, especially at 9 and 10, are going
17:24.346 --> 17:27.388
to be, I wanted to go at best time, I didn't
17:27.428 --> 17:29.410
go at best time. Or I wanted to beat this
17:29.450 --> 17:30.851
person, I want to get this result, and I
17:30.891 --> 17:34.053
didn't get it. And it's like the first, I
17:34.073 --> 17:36.133
think it's the first initial stages into
17:36.834 --> 17:43.976
like competing at a higher level. It's not
17:44.136 --> 17:45.556
high. Like we'll look at it and be like,
17:45.596 --> 17:47.197
that's not higher level, but it is for them.
17:47.677 --> 17:50.198
It's a jump. Now they're going, they might
17:50.218 --> 17:53.819
go to state competitions. They might be racing
17:53.899 --> 17:57.320
kids within the state of Wisconsin that are
17:57.360 --> 18:01.301
outside of our region. There's definitely
18:01.522 --> 18:04.143
like we have introductions to, uh, we call
18:04.163 --> 18:06.624
them zone competitions, which is like, all
18:06.644 --> 18:07.965
right, we're going to go compete against
18:08.685 --> 18:10.887
Michigan, Illinois, you know? And so it's
18:10.907 --> 18:12.968
like that introduction starts at nine and
17:14.578 --> 18:17.050
10, which can lead into pressure, expectation,
18:17.490 --> 18:20.612
anxiety, which leads to the crying, the frustration.
18:20.632 --> 18:26.036
Um, And that's probably parental forced,
18:26.717 --> 18:30.480
but it is a thing where it's like, kids wanna
18:30.521 --> 18:33.123
go fast and get better. And when they don't
18:33.223 --> 18:34.925
see their time dropping, they think it's
18:34.945 --> 18:38.148
a direct correlation into who they are. And
18:38.588 --> 18:41.631
as a coach at this time, you play a big factor
18:41.691 --> 18:43.353
in how they regulate their emotions.
18:43.693 --> 18:45.795
And the big thing is parents out there like,
18:46.636 --> 18:48.897
you need to realize that this is like we
18:49.037 --> 18:51.239
go into it knowing that this is a thing yep
18:51.479 --> 18:54.240
like it's expected so parents of you know
18:54.300 --> 18:56.322
kids these ages if your kid is crying because
18:56.362 --> 19:00.944
they lost as expected yeah right the the
19:00.964 --> 19:04.006
kids that are in the higher percentile here
19:04.636 --> 19:06.817
they've already learned how to deal with
19:06.857 --> 19:11.618
those and to leverage them. And nothing that
19:11.658 --> 19:14.058
we're saying is like good or bad on all these,
19:14.098 --> 19:18.459
they're just facts, right? And I think that's
19:18.499 --> 19:20.820
why we're doing this podcast is so parents
19:20.900 --> 19:23.820
know like what is expected and how do we
19:23.941 --> 19:26.201
help develop that kid to be even better,
19:27.001 --> 19:29.462
right? We want every kid to be above the
19:29.482 --> 19:32.046
curve. Right? We don't want just the average
19:32.086 --> 19:33.871
B students. We want to take all those B students
19:33.891 --> 19:35.896
and try to make them A students in every
19:35.936 --> 19:38.873
single subject. And we also need to realize
19:38.913 --> 19:42.395
that every kid is gonna be different in different
19:42.515 --> 19:47.278
areas. You might have a under physical developed
19:47.318 --> 19:52.882
child who's incredibly bright. Very great
19:52.982 --> 19:56.324
technique because they've learned it intellectually,
19:56.884 --> 19:58.685
but they don't have the stamina or physical
19:58.725 --> 20:01.007
development to do a long distance of it.
20:03.528 --> 20:05.930
You might have a kid that's really smart,
20:06.900 --> 20:10.662
really intellectual, not good at competition
20:10.783 --> 20:14.325
because they're emotional is behind, right?
20:14.705 --> 20:17.687
And these are just all things. Nothing's
20:17.707 --> 20:20.308
good, nothing's bad. These end up just like
20:20.669 --> 20:22.490
winning and losing in competition, both can
20:22.530 --> 20:25.692
be a superpower if you use it right. It's
20:25.732 --> 20:27.333
funny, this month at our academy, we talk
20:27.393 --> 20:28.874
about a different word of the month every
20:28.894 --> 20:30.755
month and it's humility, which we define
20:30.795 --> 20:33.637
as the kids is the superpower in understanding
20:33.677 --> 20:36.279
your strengths and your weaknesses. That's
20:36.299 --> 20:41.342
good. It's so important. And that's my message
20:41.362 --> 20:42.483
to the parents here. It's like, you just
20:42.523 --> 20:45.245
need to know where your kid's at. Nothing's
20:45.285 --> 20:46.887
good, nothing's bad. It is what it is and
20:46.907 --> 20:50.830
we just wanna make it better. Social side.
20:51.570 --> 21:01.705
Man, these ages. They love interaction. very
21:01.845 --> 21:05.767
loud if they even think something may be
21:06.027 --> 21:15.962
unfair. Their peers drive their effort. You
21:15.982 --> 21:19.783
know, this is a time where kids might start
21:19.983 --> 21:22.163
switching sports because it's a sports that
21:22.183 --> 21:24.564
their friends do. I'm sure this might be
21:24.604 --> 21:26.984
a sport because swimming and jiu-jitsu is
21:27.024 --> 21:30.005
interesting because it's not in the school
21:30.065 --> 21:32.746
with all of their 25 peers in their homeroom
21:32.766 --> 21:37.647
class, right? So quite often, we get kids
21:37.687 --> 21:40.387
that go to other sports because they want
21:40.427 --> 21:42.028
that peer approval of like, oh, that's what
21:42.048 --> 21:47.509
my other friends in school do. But again,
21:47.549 --> 21:49.950
it's a superpower as a team, right? If you
21:49.970 --> 21:51.531
get your team all rowing the boat in the
21:51.571 --> 21:54.792
same direction, that peer approval is even
21:54.832 --> 21:59.314
better. The other challenge socially is the
21:59.394 --> 22:04.335
kids might hold back if they're feeling socially
22:04.416 --> 22:08.625
uncomfortable. Right. Um, what do you see
22:08.685 --> 22:11.027
socially? A lot on your team, because you
22:11.067 --> 22:12.328
have a, you have a big team and you have
22:12.348 --> 22:13.669
a very diverse team as well.
22:14.029 --> 22:16.591
A lot of comparison for sure. Like that this
22:16.871 --> 22:19.353
at nine and 10 kids are comparing each other,
22:19.653 --> 22:22.195
but they do. I think that they naturally
22:22.235 --> 22:23.957
want to work with each other. They naturally,
22:24.297 --> 22:25.938
I think this is a great time where you develop
22:25.978 --> 22:27.600
like that teammate type of mentality. Yeah.
22:28.420 --> 22:30.421
Um, because they naturally are gravitating
22:30.481 --> 22:33.043
towards each other. Yeah. Uh, like they can
22:33.083 --> 22:36.045
start recognizing, Oh, like I'm bigger. This
22:36.105 --> 22:37.986
is a bigger ecosystem than just me. It's
22:38.186 --> 22:41.588
my team. And, uh, we do a lot of like introduction
22:41.628 --> 22:43.149
to cheers. Yeah.
22:43.489 --> 22:45.771
Yeah. So, uh, you know, swimming individual
22:45.811 --> 22:48.453
sport primarily, right. There's a team aspect
22:48.533 --> 22:51.635
to it, but how do you guys develop kids socially
22:51.735 --> 22:53.976
being in reality, an individual sport?
22:54.076 --> 22:55.677
Yeah, I mean, they have to work together
22:55.737 --> 23:00.040
on relays. We have a thing called the Schrader
23:00.080 --> 23:04.023
Way, which is team first, act with integrity,
23:04.063 --> 23:08.546
expect success, which is really, it's called
23:08.566 --> 24:28.609
the Schrader Way. And at this nine and 10
23:12.889 --> 23:17.592
age is the time where we really, we're developing
23:17.632 --> 23:21.034
that, but we try to get the kids to do that
23:21.114 --> 23:22.675
on their own where they're setting the standard
23:22.715 --> 23:25.758
with each other. And part of that is like
23:25.798 --> 23:28.202
when you're on a relay like you're working
23:28.282 --> 23:30.605
as a group for a combined effort Yeah, you
23:30.625 --> 23:32.648
know we talked about a lot when we put a
23:32.688 --> 23:35.752
team banner like national champions. We never
23:35.792 --> 23:40.547
put like a you know, like X natural champion,
23:40.587 --> 23:43.150
it's Schrader. It's like that combined effort.
23:43.771 --> 23:47.515
And more recently we've been trying to do,
23:47.916 --> 23:51.080
I call it Initiative X, which is the idea
23:51.100 --> 23:54.904
that trying to get the young kids bought
23:54.924 --> 23:57.407
into the idea that you are helping these
23:57.607 --> 24:00.329
older kids go to national competitions and
24:00.409 --> 24:03.751
you are part of this Schrader team. And at
24:03.811 --> 24:06.553
this nine and 10 age, you can start really
24:06.673 --> 24:10.776
kind of like putting in that social awareness
24:10.836 --> 24:13.237
of like, you are part of this team. That
24:13.298 --> 24:16.179
means that you act this specific way. We're
24:16.219 --> 24:18.721
setting the standard of being great, acting
24:18.741 --> 24:20.903
with integrity, expect success, team first.
24:21.283 --> 24:23.624
What does that mean in practice? And you
24:23.644 --> 24:26.907
know, I think at that 9-10 age, you can really
24:26.967 --> 24:28.609
set those values and standards.
24:29.109 --> 24:34.373
Man, I totally agree. They're just socially
24:34.413 --> 24:37.376
developed to this point where teamwork and
24:37.656 --> 24:41.259
culture matters to them. Even in school,
24:41.279 --> 24:43.541
they start getting their little clicks and
24:43.601 --> 24:46.805
stuff like that. But in reality, these pies
24:46.865 --> 24:49.327
and stages of development, they're the foundation
24:49.407 --> 24:51.689
of everything that we do. We need to understand
24:51.770 --> 24:54.893
as coaches, as parents, where our kids are
24:54.933 --> 24:59.337
at. And every athlete is at their own spot.
24:59.998 --> 25:02.220
And it's the spot that's perfect for them,
25:02.300 --> 25:04.082
us as coaches, is to push them and get them
25:04.122 --> 25:06.604
ready for that next level. and hopefully
25:06.724 --> 25:09.286
bring up their average as we go. But this
25:09.326 --> 25:11.308
is the building blocks for athletic development.
25:11.848 --> 25:14.490
And I think at these ages, you can start
25:14.610 --> 25:16.912
working on it more. They're not necessarily
25:17.072 --> 25:19.234
hitting the weight room yet. They're not
25:19.314 --> 25:22.056
doing a lot of like cross training or supplemental
25:22.136 --> 25:26.019
training, but we can still do a lot outside
25:26.059 --> 25:28.021
of just teaching them how to swim or teaching
25:28.061 --> 25:30.883
them how to do a rear naked choke. What's
25:30.903 --> 25:33.726
your approach of just sheer athletic development?
25:34.386 --> 25:34.586
Yeah.
25:34.626 --> 25:35.227
For these ages.
25:35.407 --> 25:40.450
I mean, at this point, we're trying to teach
25:40.530 --> 25:43.212
land athletes to be water athletes. You know,
25:43.232 --> 25:45.513
like you have to learn on land before you
25:45.553 --> 25:48.675
go into water. I think that most coaches
25:48.775 --> 25:51.977
in the swimming community think about water
25:52.377 --> 25:54.599
specifically. Yeah. And they don't think
25:54.639 --> 25:57.300
about land. I think more on the side of building
25:57.360 --> 26:00.322
land athletes that are also water athletes.
26:00.882 --> 26:02.102
Like you got to think you're in a different
26:02.142 --> 26:04.563
ecosystem. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that
26:04.603 --> 26:07.304
you can't build athleticism on land. So like
26:07.704 --> 26:11.625
learning how to jump seems easy to teach.
26:11.745 --> 26:13.305
And then he also seems like, well, you just
26:13.345 --> 26:16.906
jump. Yeah. But that is a hard skill to really
26:16.966 --> 26:17.366
perfect.
26:17.627 --> 26:18.967
I mean, especially when you're talking about
26:19.007 --> 26:21.128
jumping in a race, there's reaction time,
26:21.188 --> 26:23.566
right? Right. So it's not just like, how,
26:23.886 --> 26:25.808
I'm gonna say how hard you can jump, high,
26:25.888 --> 26:28.029
far, whatever it might be, but you need to
26:28.089 --> 26:29.330
jump at the right time.
26:31.132 --> 26:33.433
But it's like, that development can be done
26:33.513 --> 26:36.795
on land. For sure. And probably much higher
26:37.216 --> 26:39.657
repetition. And awareness is bigger at this
26:39.798 --> 26:43.580
age. Thinking back to when I was a string
26:43.620 --> 26:47.522
coach, We were coaching kids at nine and
26:31.132 --> 26:49.203
10. We were not coaching kids at seven and
26:49.323 --> 26:52.644
eight. Like we're coaching kids now. We're
26:52.904 --> 26:55.905
teaching kids how to properly move.
26:56.766 --> 26:58.586
This is that age that I think you can start
26:58.626 --> 27:04.149
doing like really high level, like detail
27:04.189 --> 27:07.890
level, like agility drills and coordination
27:07.910 --> 27:11.352
stuff, like ladder drills and jumping rope,
27:11.512 --> 27:14.193
which is all like, fun stuff for kids to
27:14.253 --> 27:16.534
do that is going to be way more fun than
27:16.995 --> 27:18.656
bench press, which they should be doing at
27:18.676 --> 27:19.376
this age anyways.
27:19.556 --> 27:22.298
Yeah. It's like trying to trick them to learn
27:23.318 --> 27:24.139
athletic development.
27:24.479 --> 27:27.060
Yeah, for sure. But how about as they get
27:27.161 --> 27:31.083
older, like verging on 10 years old, where
27:31.123 --> 27:33.264
you can really start developing body weight
27:33.344 --> 27:36.426
strength exercises, like push-ups, squats,
27:36.526 --> 27:38.427
wall sits. Push-ups, squats.
27:38.447 --> 27:39.688
Lunges, walking lunges.
27:39.728 --> 27:42.723
The kids at my gym. Have you ever seen the
27:42.763 --> 27:44.646
Sally Goes Up, Sally Goes Down workout where
27:44.686 --> 27:47.189
he'd squat? They love that. And I'm like,
27:47.209 --> 27:48.952
why do you love this so much? It's literally
27:49.052 --> 27:51.576
five minutes of hundreds of squats. Or a
27:51.696 --> 27:53.499
deck of cards. They love doing deck of cards.
27:53.759 --> 27:55.221
It doesn't matter what the exercise is. As
27:55.261 --> 27:56.643
long as they get to pick their fate, they're
27:56.683 --> 28:00.061
OK with it. I'll do other stuff like make
28:00.081 --> 28:01.522
them hold a plank. This is one of their favorite
28:01.562 --> 28:03.863
ones. They have to hold a plank, like a hand
28:03.923 --> 28:06.804
plank, and I ask them random trivia questions.
28:07.224 --> 28:12.566
So like, ChadGBT, give me 20 trivia questions
28:13.187 --> 28:15.448
in, whatever, various school categories for
28:15.468 --> 28:17.068
10-year-olds that I can ask them. And as
28:17.088 --> 28:18.649
they're doing a plank, I ask them the trivia
28:18.669 --> 28:20.189
questions. If they get them wrong, they have
28:20.209 --> 28:22.831
to do like three push-ups. but they love
28:23.971 --> 28:27.173
it. It's a great age that they can start
28:27.533 --> 28:31.174
developing some strength, but body weight.
28:32.955 --> 28:34.676
What else are you guys doing on land as they
28:34.736 --> 28:35.936
start getting towards that 10?
28:36.917 --> 28:39.278
I feel like this is the time where you can
28:39.398 --> 28:45.975
teach hinging, which is hard. You know, one
28:45.995 --> 28:47.536
of the things that I think that we do at
28:36.917 --> 28:49.177
10 years old, that the nine and 10 group
28:49.238 --> 28:51.139
that is different than seven, eight is, uh,
28:51.959 --> 28:53.881
you know, our younger kid coach or age group
28:53.901 --> 28:55.782
coach starts doing this thing called whiteboard
28:55.822 --> 28:59.384
Wednesdays, which is really good. Uh, but
28:59.464 --> 29:01.946
you gotta be like, you cannot be eight years
29:02.006 --> 29:03.787
old and send this and sit still. Cause it's
29:03.807 --> 29:05.748
going to be 15 minutes. And we're going to
29:05.788 --> 29:08.230
talk about something that could be a goal
29:08.850 --> 29:10.852
type, like we're going to talk about long-term
29:10.872 --> 29:13.894
goals or specific process goals. Or like
29:13.954 --> 29:15.175
today, we're going to talk about what it
29:15.235 --> 29:17.816
means like to be a good teammate. Those are
29:17.876 --> 29:20.458
like, I think are also LAN things that we
29:20.478 --> 29:23.880
do that translate into like, when you're
29:23.900 --> 29:26.182
a nine and 10, we're going whiteboard Wednesdays.
29:26.682 --> 29:27.943
What does that mean? Well, you're going to
29:27.963 --> 29:30.525
have to write on the note card. three specific
29:30.585 --> 29:34.268
process goals for this month, right? At seven
29:34.288 --> 29:36.130
and eight, they're not doing that. That's
29:36.190 --> 29:36.430
hard.
29:37.071 --> 29:39.052
Do you start, like when they are nine and
29:37.071 --> 29:41.414
10, do you start doing like speed development?
29:41.435 --> 29:42.976
Because I know you don't do that too young,
29:43.356 --> 29:44.798
but I think like nine and 10, they can actually
29:44.818 --> 29:48.781
start working on Developing. Yeah, like some
29:48.822 --> 29:52.105
explosiveness. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
29:53.006 --> 29:56.089
Awesome. Any other big athletic development
29:56.129 --> 29:57.591
things for these age groups? I think they're
29:57.611 --> 29:59.873
like, they're just getting started. I think
29:59.893 --> 30:02.937
we get a lot of parents that want to push
30:03.017 --> 30:05.900
the athletic development too far at this
30:06.120 --> 30:06.360
age.
30:06.881 --> 30:10.065
That's the issue that I think that we that
30:10.105 --> 30:12.448
we run into is that their parents are more
30:12.548 --> 30:14.450
eager to want more and want more and want
30:14.490 --> 30:17.654
more. And you're trying to think about long
30:17.694 --> 30:19.676
term what's the best for the progression.
30:19.696 --> 30:21.879
Because we want them to have more when they
30:21.899 --> 30:25.223
turn 11 and 12 and then 13, 14. And it's
30:25.243 --> 30:27.286
a mistake if you're pushed too early on.
30:27.526 --> 30:29.627
And there's still, you know, we're going
30:29.647 --> 30:32.429
to get into competition next. And there's
30:32.449 --> 30:34.870
still like really just truly getting into
30:34.930 --> 30:37.352
competition at this age. So you still need
30:37.372 --> 30:39.213
to keep it sort of fun. If you take away
30:39.233 --> 30:42.335
all that fun and you do just like laps or
30:42.395 --> 30:44.276
wind sprints or whatever it might be, like
30:44.296 --> 30:45.637
you're going to lose the kids right away.
30:45.657 --> 30:47.638
Like training. Yeah. If you're training at
30:47.678 --> 30:50.179
nine and 10. Yeah. That's not, that's not
30:50.199 --> 30:52.700
the goal. Yeah. You're learning. You're having
30:52.780 --> 30:55.242
fun. You're, you're doing this for enjoyment.
30:55.562 --> 30:58.843
Yeah. Not for like, it's still training apps.
30:58.923 --> 31:00.904
Super social. Yes. Has to be.
31:01.765 --> 31:04.657
Yeah. Man, let's talk about competition,
31:04.877 --> 31:06.179
because this is where we typically spend
31:06.219 --> 31:09.543
most of our time on these. Seven and eight-year-olds,
31:10.304 --> 31:13.529
they can start following more rules, more
31:13.609 --> 31:18.756
structure to competition. They get distracted,
31:18.816 --> 31:20.017
but they're better at getting their focus
31:20.037 --> 31:24.542
back. Um, and some of them want to like actually
31:24.602 --> 31:26.585
test their skills and they want to go out
31:26.605 --> 31:28.907
there on their own to do it. I think the
31:29.007 --> 31:31.770
ages before the parents and the coaches are
31:31.810 --> 31:33.912
like, Hey, let's get you out there. They're
31:33.972 --> 31:36.856
encouraged. But at this age, you start getting
31:36.896 --> 31:41.142
like, I want to compete. Um, do you see the
31:41.162 --> 31:41.542
same thing?
31:41.702 --> 31:43.504
Yes, definitely. And there's definitely a
31:43.584 --> 31:45.426
clear difference though, between seven and
31:45.466 --> 31:48.048
eight and nine and 10 for sure. Like, you
31:48.068 --> 31:49.670
know, like seven, seven, eight year olds
31:49.710 --> 31:51.391
are going to get exposed a little bit more
31:51.431 --> 31:53.613
to competition. Now, instead of doing our
31:53.693 --> 31:55.475
in-house competition, now they're doing their
31:55.515 --> 31:57.637
first meets where they're racing against
31:57.677 --> 31:59.619
kids on other teams. That's a big, that's
31:59.659 --> 32:01.682
a big jump. Sure. Huge. Because it's like,
32:01.782 --> 32:03.404
oh, I'm not racing my buddies. I'm racing
32:03.424 --> 32:04.305
this other team.
32:04.606 --> 32:08.732
Well, here's the thing, right? Part of ecological
32:08.792 --> 32:11.216
learning or learning through a game structure
32:11.596 --> 32:16.131
is environmental changes, right? And our
32:16.271 --> 32:18.532
in-house is the way it is because everyone
32:18.572 --> 32:20.653
there, the kids typically know, the kids
32:20.713 --> 32:23.115
know the kid's there, the kid's parents are
32:23.155 --> 32:25.996
there, right? There's not really a true stranger
32:26.217 --> 32:28.998
in the room. It's in a place that's familiar
32:29.198 --> 32:32.841
to them. It's on the same mats, right? It's
32:32.901 --> 32:34.982
the same routine where the kids wash their
32:35.002 --> 32:37.383
feet before they get on the mat. it's the
32:37.443 --> 32:39.865
referees are people they see around the academy.
32:39.885 --> 32:42.467
The second you take that competition, and
32:42.487 --> 32:45.269
you put it in a different spot, yep. The
32:45.329 --> 32:48.111
fact that the pool is different, maybe the
32:48.311 --> 32:50.112
walls are a different color, there's different
32:50.192 --> 32:52.313
noises, there's a different location, there's
32:52.714 --> 32:55.636
the locker room is different, right? People
32:55.676 --> 32:57.977
don't realize that, even though it's like
32:57.997 --> 33:02.588
you're going from like, just the competition
33:02.648 --> 33:06.110
side of things to a new environment with
33:06.170 --> 33:13.555
new people is a huge jump. It's hard to describe
33:13.615 --> 33:18.698
how big it is. And it's important as coaches
33:18.739 --> 33:23.041
and parents to make sure that the kids still
33:23.061 --> 33:24.923
have a good experience with that.
33:25.803 --> 33:30.086
Totally. For us too, it's the, if you're
33:30.106 --> 33:33.608
going from, if you're in some team at five
33:33.628 --> 33:36.529
and six, even seven, and we have kids that
33:36.569 --> 33:39.031
stay in our pre-sum team to like eight years
33:39.151 --> 33:42.295
old. When they're doing the in-house competitions,
33:42.575 --> 33:44.636
the referees there are just trying to help
33:44.676 --> 33:48.198
them. When they progress into USA Swimming
33:48.218 --> 33:51.460
competitions, now they're gonna get introduced
33:51.520 --> 33:55.822
to, ooh, I got disqualified. That is big.
33:56.003 --> 33:58.524
So that's when the crying and emotions.
33:58.824 --> 34:01.926
I I mean even at our in-house like our referees
34:01.986 --> 34:04.587
like we have we have two coaches Or one coach
34:04.607 --> 34:06.408
at every mat and the coach coaches both kids,
34:06.629 --> 34:08.450
right, you know in a regular tournament Like
34:08.570 --> 34:11.451
I'm not coaching another gyms student, but
34:11.491 --> 34:13.392
the referee will sit there and like talk
34:13.492 --> 34:16.254
with the kids a tournament that ref is quiet
34:16.474 --> 34:18.515
Yep. They're going to do their job.
34:18.535 --> 34:21.357
Throwing up points. They're giving out penalties.
34:21.477 --> 34:23.478
It's just so different.
34:23.498 --> 34:26.080
It's a big change. And that seven and eight
34:26.120 --> 34:28.121
group, if you progress into that, where now
34:28.161 --> 34:30.682
you're doing USA swimming competitions, and
34:31.523 --> 34:34.425
it might be nine for some kids. But that's
34:34.525 --> 34:36.746
the big jump. And then similarly with our
34:37.427 --> 34:40.369
older kids, the big jump is now it's, you
34:40.389 --> 34:43.171
know, the rankings and times and standards
34:43.191 --> 35:09.384
where they know exactly, okay, what is 30
34:45.753 --> 34:47.594
seconds in the 50 free mean at my age? Well,
34:47.614 --> 34:49.956
that means I'm a triple A swimmer or quadruple
34:49.976 --> 34:51.817
A swimmer. That means I make the zone meet.
34:51.877 --> 34:53.198
That means I make the state meet. That means
34:53.258 --> 34:54.879
I'm at regionals. Yeah, interesting. They
34:54.979 --> 34:58.781
start really identifying what level of athlete
34:58.801 --> 35:02.042
they are. And so that's why the competition
35:02.642 --> 35:05.403
has to have values around it with coaches
35:05.703 --> 35:08.284
and also as parents. That becomes number
35:08.404 --> 35:09.384
one, in my opinion.
35:09.404 --> 35:12.345
Yeah. Man, and even as they get older, they...
35:14.230 --> 35:16.112
start understanding, at least in jiu-jitsu,
35:16.132 --> 35:18.133
they start understanding the scoring better
35:18.253 --> 35:20.655
and like why they won and why they lost.
35:20.715 --> 35:24.478
And which adds a whole nother dynamic to
35:24.538 --> 35:26.259
it because sometimes at seven and eight,
35:26.299 --> 35:27.900
like the kids don't necessarily know why
35:27.940 --> 35:30.542
they won. Um, in jiu-jitsu, like if you win
35:30.562 --> 35:32.884
by submission, they'll typically know like,
35:32.904 --> 35:34.425
Oh, I tapped that other person out. Right.
35:34.746 --> 35:36.387
But if there's points at the end, they're
35:36.407 --> 35:38.408
like, Oh, how did I, how did I have more
35:38.448 --> 35:41.171
points than them? But as they get to that
35:41.191 --> 35:42.431
10-year-old age, they actually understand
35:42.451 --> 35:44.393
the point structure of Jiu-Jitsu and how
35:44.473 --> 35:47.595
points are scored and things like that, which
35:47.856 --> 35:50.938
changes the game in Jiu-Jitsu because you
35:50.958 --> 35:52.239
can play the game of points.
35:54.020 --> 35:55.882
I'll say it like this, and I don't think
35:55.922 --> 35:59.344
this is unnormal. I remember how fast I went
35:59.504 --> 36:03.646
when I was 10. Really? I know my times. Why,
36:03.726 --> 36:06.827
why 10? And that's, that's when I start recognizing,
36:07.047 --> 36:09.188
I know my, I do not remember my times at
36:09.228 --> 36:11.629
nine. I have no clue how fast I went at eight,
36:12.169 --> 36:14.730
but I know exactly how fast I went at specific
36:14.770 --> 36:17.590
competitions starting at the age of 10. And
36:17.650 --> 36:22.974
I think if you were to survey most Athletes
36:22.994 --> 36:24.674
that went through their career from 10 to
35:54.020 --> 36:28.236
20 competitors. Yeah, this is when that age
35:54.020 --> 36:32.777
9 and 10 they start identifying Results like
36:32.897 --> 36:35.659
very clearly and they know I made zones when
36:35.699 --> 36:37.839
I was 10 I made I got this place when I was
35:54.020 --> 36:39.840
10 I went this time when I was 10 and So
36:39.900 --> 36:44.202
it's, and that's not unnormal for our sport
36:44.242 --> 36:46.923
perspective, is that this is the age, I think
36:47.003 --> 36:50.584
naturally through this, how competition is
36:50.624 --> 36:53.505
set up, where we're going to start ranking
36:53.525 --> 36:55.346
kids. And we know who the best kid in the
36:55.386 --> 36:59.567
state is in this event is. And it's probably
36:59.587 --> 37:02.329
a coaching thing too. where we play, okay,
37:02.369 --> 37:04.130
well, you know, Bobby's getting a little
37:04.150 --> 37:06.151
bit more attention to practice. He might
37:06.171 --> 37:07.451
be a little bit better than me. And then
37:07.571 --> 37:12.914
parents. That's when it, you're, the development
37:12.954 --> 37:15.396
of, and I talked about this in my thesis
37:15.436 --> 37:17.977
a lot, is like the development of sports
37:17.997 --> 37:21.439
specific values. really comes into play at
37:21.519 --> 37:24.381
nine and 10, where it's like you are developing
37:24.421 --> 37:27.323
these long term sports specific values, for
37:27.383 --> 37:30.205
example, a sport specific value that I never
37:30.265 --> 37:32.506
got over that I should have gone over that
37:32.566 --> 37:36.049
was developed by a coach, for sure, at the
37:36.089 --> 37:38.270
age of 10 was counting every yard that I
37:38.330 --> 37:41.172
swam. And I started that at 10. So I would
37:41.192 --> 37:43.434
count up how much volume do we do today at
35:54.020 --> 37:46.116
10? We did 4000 yards at 22 years old, I
37:46.136 --> 37:48.097
was counting every lap. Is it then that's
37:48.117 --> 37:50.878
a bad thing to do? I think it's a The bad
37:50.918 --> 37:54.319
thing was is that I resulted volume in compared
37:54.359 --> 38:39.118
to how much I'm getting done. We did 6,000
37:57.719 --> 38:00.640
yards, that was good practice. Which in the
38:00.680 --> 38:03.841
sport of swimming, there's a very big sport
38:04.081 --> 38:07.621
specific value over amount of volume. And
38:07.641 --> 38:09.342
that was developed for me at 10 years old.
38:10.142 --> 38:12.922
And other kids get those type of values.
38:12.962 --> 38:17.743
So it's best times meet a good race. you
38:17.783 --> 38:20.525
can set sports specific values early on at
38:20.585 --> 38:23.567
that at executional, controllable things.
38:23.807 --> 38:26.909
Yeah, as a coach, as a parent. And as an
38:26.969 --> 38:29.151
athlete, where it's like, how, how am I grading
38:29.211 --> 38:31.052
myself on performance? Well, I'm grading
38:31.072 --> 38:34.154
myself on how I will I execute my controllables?
38:34.675 --> 38:37.797
How well I prepared? How will I control my
38:38.037 --> 38:39.118
emotions before race?
38:39.218 --> 38:41.419
Let's talk about those. So the controlling
38:41.439 --> 38:44.642
the controllables, because they can seven
38:44.762 --> 38:47.083
to 10, they can actually start doing this.
38:47.203 --> 38:50.404
What are those controllables? Sports agnostic.
38:50.584 --> 38:52.125
We'll use swimming and martial arts as an
38:52.165 --> 38:52.625
example.
38:52.765 --> 38:54.506
One of the things that we do that I think
38:55.146 --> 38:58.468
at this age group is different and you should
38:58.508 --> 39:02.589
start doing is the introduction to some mental
39:02.629 --> 39:05.450
tools, mental performance tools. One of them,
39:05.811 --> 39:08.832
what I call is the battle behind the blocks.
39:08.872 --> 39:13.285
It's like you're about to race. You're behind
39:13.325 --> 39:16.768
the block. There's gonna be a battle that
39:16.788 --> 39:18.689
you're trying to win, an internal battle.
39:19.810 --> 39:21.611
And then there's gonna be a battle in the
39:21.671 --> 39:24.273
water, when you dive in the water. But we
39:24.313 --> 39:26.955
talk about the idea of power posing, utilizing
39:26.975 --> 39:29.197
your breath. That's a controllable thing.
39:29.797 --> 39:31.739
Visualize that race execution. What do you
39:31.779 --> 39:33.440
wanna do? What are you trying to accomplish?
39:33.480 --> 39:34.261
What's your race plan?
39:34.961 --> 39:37.402
What are those controllables? One of the
39:37.422 --> 39:39.523
best clips that we had from the first podcast
39:39.543 --> 39:42.184
that we did with each other was the stoplights,
39:42.264 --> 39:43.744
the green-yellow. Let's talk about that one
39:43.764 --> 39:45.165
really quick. That's a really great tool
39:45.185 --> 39:46.065
for this age group, I think.
39:46.105 --> 39:47.586
Yeah, nine and 10, it's like you can start
39:47.626 --> 39:51.487
identifying those really basic green light,
39:51.527 --> 39:53.708
yellow light, red light type of routines,
39:53.868 --> 39:56.409
or also like recognitions. It's like green
39:56.429 --> 39:59.050
light, I'm in the zone. Ready to rock. I'm
39:59.110 --> 40:01.431
ready to go. I'm behind that block. I got
40:01.471 --> 40:04.973
my Superman pose, and I'm like, I'm the hunter.
40:05.053 --> 40:06.915
Here we go. You're in green light. Yellow
40:06.935 --> 40:09.257
light's the kid that's behind the block that's
40:10.538 --> 40:12.140
making himself a little bit smaller. They're
40:12.160 --> 40:13.721
thinking about the guy next to me. He's so
40:13.762 --> 40:15.884
much faster than me. He's not controlling
40:15.924 --> 40:17.605
that battle behind the block. Red light is
40:17.665 --> 40:20.188
a kid that's probably crying behind the block
40:20.769 --> 40:24.392
at this age. You can get kids to identify
40:24.432 --> 40:26.274
where they're at, but we have kids at 9 and
39:46.105 --> 40:28.976
10. Well, We'll talk about, hey, this is
40:29.016 --> 40:30.956
a good routine behind the block. This is
40:30.976 --> 40:33.277
a good routine or script that we have within
40:33.317 --> 40:35.257
the water. We want to get out fast. We want
40:35.277 --> 40:37.038
to make a move. We want to finish in hunt
40:37.078 --> 40:39.939
and kill. That's a very basic race execution.
40:40.379 --> 40:42.720
We teach that. And then we also teach the
40:42.840 --> 40:45.240
battle behind the block of Superman pose,
40:45.521 --> 40:47.821
utilize the breath, focus on your execution.
40:48.542 --> 40:50.162
And then the kids will come back after race
40:50.362 --> 40:52.003
and they'll talk about that. So we'll say
40:52.023 --> 40:53.783
something like, how well do you execute your
40:53.823 --> 40:55.484
race? Or with a 9-10 year old, you might
40:55.504 --> 40:57.665
be like, What do you think about your race
40:57.705 --> 40:59.106
execution? And they might say, you know,
40:59.146 --> 41:00.306
I need to do this better and this better.
41:00.647 --> 41:02.348
Okay, what about your battle behind the blocks?
41:03.128 --> 41:04.849
How was that? And they'll be able to spit
41:04.889 --> 41:05.230
it back.
41:05.450 --> 41:08.452
Oh, man. So at this age, you're actually
41:08.512 --> 41:12.594
able to get them to reflect on almost all
41:12.654 --> 41:14.676
parts of their performance, like the before,
41:14.736 --> 41:15.616
the during, and the after.
41:15.816 --> 41:18.218
And them taking control. Yeah, that's awesome.
41:18.338 --> 41:20.539
The problem that we run into is coaches are
41:20.599 --> 41:23.361
speaking this language, and parents are speaking
41:23.401 --> 41:28.316
this other language. Yeah. And that's where
41:28.476 --> 41:29.741
the confusion comes into place.
41:31.729 --> 41:34.310
What suggestions do you have for parents
41:34.931 --> 41:36.612
as their kids are competing in this age,
41:36.712 --> 41:37.892
like the do's and don'ts?
41:38.833 --> 41:41.434
Well, I think at this age, especially 9 and
41:38.833 --> 41:44.895
10, you have to be aware that your kid knows,
41:45.235 --> 41:49.517
they will know, whether they succeeded their
41:49.537 --> 41:51.979
goal or not. They know what's good, what
41:52.059 --> 41:55.501
is not. You do not need to tell them. Oh,
41:55.541 --> 41:57.384
you didn't go a best time. Oh, you didn't
41:57.404 --> 41:59.086
win. You could have done this differently.
41:59.166 --> 42:01.349
You do not need to be coaching them, like
42:01.530 --> 42:04.454
at all. If you're coaching them through sports
42:04.474 --> 42:07.439
specific tools, I think that you're going
42:07.499 --> 42:10.023
to go down a path that is going to lead to
42:10.163 --> 42:13.467
destruction. If you're coaching your kid
42:13.507 --> 42:15.489
in that car ride, you could have done this
42:15.529 --> 42:16.990
better. Why didn't you do this? What do you
42:17.010 --> 42:20.133
think about that? This is when this really
42:20.194 --> 42:23.857
comes into play, and it's so recognizable
42:23.897 --> 42:26.180
with the kids that we see. The kids that
42:26.200 --> 42:29.163
are so strung out before a race, we know
42:29.223 --> 42:30.985
that parent is in their ear.
42:31.405 --> 42:33.547
What are some things that parents like, just
42:33.627 --> 42:35.789
man, sometimes they just need a one-liner
42:35.829 --> 42:37.651
that they can repeat like a parent, right?
42:37.691 --> 42:40.014
Like what are some one-liners before the
42:40.114 --> 42:44.398
race that a parent can say to the kid that's
42:44.418 --> 42:46.880
gonna have a positive impact?
42:47.101 --> 42:50.184
So I did an activity with my older kids,
42:50.424 --> 42:53.127
but it translates to younger kids. I had,
42:53.267 --> 42:54.788
and it was really, really for the parents,
42:54.828 --> 42:57.970
but I tricked them. So I had them write out
42:58.030 --> 43:00.852
three different no cards. Before I race,
43:01.173 --> 43:03.454
I need from my coaches, and they wrote down
43:03.515 --> 43:07.778
three things. Before I race from my parents,
43:08.338 --> 43:10.860
this is what I need. Before I race from my
43:10.960 --> 43:12.421
teammates, this is what I need. And then
43:12.461 --> 43:14.303
it was after I race, this is what I need.
43:14.563 --> 43:16.364
After I race, this is what I need. Really
43:16.404 --> 43:18.706
what I was trying to do was get that parent
43:18.746 --> 43:20.608
no code, and then I was gonna share it to
43:20.628 --> 43:25.612
the team. One of the very clear, identifiable
43:25.692 --> 43:29.975
things that was recognized by almost every
43:30.095 --> 43:33.598
athlete was before I race, do not talk to
43:33.638 --> 43:38.461
me about my race. Don't say anything. Don't
43:38.541 --> 43:41.644
say anything. Don't try to coach me. Let
43:41.724 --> 43:44.546
me have some freedom. Yeah, right you give
43:44.566 --> 43:46.788
your kid freedom to just like go out there
43:46.808 --> 43:49.551
and have some fun. Yeah, great 10 out of
42:47.101 --> 43:52.013
10 and then after they race One of the things
43:52.053 --> 43:55.316
that the kid said that was like I need you
43:55.757 --> 43:59.119
and I these were 15 8 year old kids Get me
43:59.159 --> 44:02.500
a good meal. That was it. That was on every
44:02.540 --> 44:04.821
single card. I don't need you to walk me
44:04.861 --> 44:06.281
through my race. I don't need you to tell
44:06.321 --> 44:08.442
me what I need to do better. I don't need
44:08.482 --> 44:11.063
you to talk to my coach. All I need you to
44:11.103 --> 44:12.903
do is tell me good job and get me a meal.
44:13.063 --> 44:15.564
It is that simple. One of the things that
44:15.644 --> 44:18.765
I've been doing that I shared to our parents,
44:19.385 --> 44:22.366
which is really good, is kids would finish
44:22.406 --> 44:24.807
a race and I would say something like, what
44:24.847 --> 44:28.587
are you proud of? And it, first of all, it
44:28.727 --> 44:32.269
puts the proud ownership in me. But also
44:32.349 --> 44:34.870
as a parent, that's also, you can say that
44:34.890 --> 44:36.871
to your kid. Hey, I'm really proud of you.
44:37.771 --> 44:40.133
Or hey, what are you proud of? You did really
44:40.173 --> 44:42.014
well. That's great.
44:43.054 --> 44:46.656
And we actually pivot, we try to have parents
44:46.836 --> 44:49.637
pivot saying, hey, I'm proud of you, to say,
44:49.757 --> 44:51.978
you should be proud of yourself. Because
44:52.018 --> 44:54.620
most kids, they know their parents are proud
44:54.660 --> 44:57.022
of them. But what you want your kid to develop
44:57.062 --> 44:58.043
is pride within themselves.
44:58.063 --> 44:58.043
100%.
44:58.623 --> 45:00.725
Proud that what they did was good. Ownership.
45:01.106 --> 45:03.127
Take pride of what you're doing. So that
45:03.187 --> 45:05.129
question of, what are you proud of, is the
45:05.730 --> 45:10.174
first question that I ask. One of the greatest
45:10.234 --> 45:12.896
things a parent can say, I think, in our
45:12.956 --> 45:18.081
sport is, I love to watch you compete. That
45:18.161 --> 45:20.422
is game changer. I love to watch you compete.
45:20.762 --> 45:23.264
You just go out there and you just let it
45:23.624 --> 45:26.426
rip. I love watching you compete. When someone
45:26.466 --> 45:28.767
hears that, it's like, you're not talking
45:28.807 --> 45:30.909
about how great they are. You're just like,
45:31.049 --> 45:34.451
I love watching you race. It's so cool watching
45:34.491 --> 45:38.354
you put it on the line out there. That's
45:38.394 --> 45:41.617
a great line that a parent could use that
45:41.777 --> 45:45.279
doesn't put pressure into performance on
45:45.380 --> 45:48.622
outcomes, results. At this age, if you can
45:48.702 --> 45:52.625
stay as far as you can away from times, outcomes,
45:54.007 --> 45:56.929
social comparisons identification of how
45:57.009 --> 45:58.790
good you are. Yeah. Oh, you do you want to
45:59.310 --> 46:02.032
swim in cow? No, absolutely not. You know,
46:02.092 --> 46:03.413
and this is when it starts.
46:03.913 --> 46:07.496
Yeah, man. I feel like at this age, you get
46:07.676 --> 46:09.717
some of those parents, man, probably even
46:09.777 --> 46:11.679
younger, just because it's parents, right?
46:12.199 --> 46:14.300
Where it's like, I got your 10 year old,
46:15.021 --> 46:16.902
they're gonna go swim at, they're gonna go
46:16.942 --> 46:19.023
swim in Minnesota or Madison, or like whatever,
46:19.163 --> 46:23.110
XYZ is the best swimming school ever. And
46:23.650 --> 46:26.232
kids have challenges with that pressure.
46:26.433 --> 46:28.274
Almost like anti, like, oh, you want me to
46:28.294 --> 46:29.915
go swim in college? I'm gonna just not swim
46:29.955 --> 46:34.038
anymore. How do you coach parents around
46:34.058 --> 46:35.700
that? Because you can't just be like, stop.
46:35.940 --> 46:38.802
Yeah, you can't. And the other thing, too,
46:38.922 --> 46:42.665
is what we've led into is you can try your
46:42.865 --> 46:45.667
absolute best on coaching parents. You can
46:45.868 --> 46:47.549
teach them all the things. You can send out
46:47.629 --> 46:49.991
surveys. You can send out newsletters like,
46:50.011 --> 46:50.711
hey, this is,
46:52.012 --> 46:54.373
scientific study proven that if you talk
46:54.413 --> 46:55.634
like this, it's hard because people just
46:55.654 --> 46:58.636
get in patterns and you know, they're, they're
46:58.696 --> 47:02.058
coaching from their parents, from their last
47:03.398 --> 47:05.880
experience in athletics, not their experience
47:05.900 --> 47:07.220
when they were 10 years old in athletics.
47:07.320 --> 47:09.081
Right. Right. Like they're coaching those
47:09.121 --> 47:11.583
parents that are the parents that typically
47:11.663 --> 47:13.444
look, in my opinion, look at their kids to
47:13.484 --> 47:15.325
become college athletes in a sport. When
47:15.345 --> 47:16.986
they're 10 years old, we're also college
47:17.106 --> 47:20.007
athletes in that sport. Like they want their
47:20.047 --> 47:21.969
kid to do what they did. or they want their
47:21.989 --> 47:23.971
kid to get to the level in some sport that
47:24.031 --> 47:29.038
they did. And it's so challenging. Parents,
47:29.318 --> 47:31.220
you need to not look at it like you're a
47:31.921 --> 47:34.204
senior in college in your last year and this
47:34.284 --> 47:38.930
is it. They're 10, many years ahead to even
47:39.030 --> 47:39.791
get them there.
47:40.071 --> 47:43.596
Yeah, and I you know, we have we have two
47:43.616 --> 47:46.921
different type of parents in this group Some
47:46.961 --> 47:49.906
of our best parents. Yeah are the ones that?
47:50.366 --> 47:53.992
Succeeded at the highest levels. Yep, like
47:54.052 --> 47:56.915
some of our best ones are those people. Because
47:56.935 --> 47:58.857
they're like, I know what's coming down the
47:58.897 --> 48:01.520
road. I know that this is going to get really
48:01.560 --> 48:05.183
hard. And this is my experience at 10, and
48:06.184 --> 48:07.445
if I would have gone through it again, I
48:07.485 --> 48:09.107
would have done it differently. We have those
48:09.147 --> 48:11.529
parents, and they're the absolute best. So
48:11.569 --> 48:13.951
hands-off. They let the coaches coach. They
48:13.971 --> 48:16.354
let their kids fail. It's 10 out of 10 great.
48:16.814 --> 48:19.857
We also have the flip side. of parents that
48:19.997 --> 48:23.160
succeeded at a high level, that are gripping
48:23.200 --> 48:26.844
their kids as hard as they can, because they
48:26.964 --> 48:29.386
definitely think about their experience and
48:29.466 --> 48:31.528
thought, this is how it's done, and this
48:31.588 --> 48:34.391
is how I was coached, or differently, I think
48:34.431 --> 48:37.213
I should have gone coached like this. I do
48:37.313 --> 48:39.835
think that we also have another group of
48:39.875 --> 48:42.317
parents that don't know right from wrong
48:42.337 --> 48:46.499
at all, right? So you have this impact that
48:46.599 --> 48:48.540
early on where you can set the standard of
48:48.941 --> 48:51.522
what we expect from parents. Like we talked
48:51.542 --> 48:53.263
about last time, you have a parent handbook.
48:53.824 --> 48:55.805
We have a parent handbook. You have to have
48:55.825 --> 48:56.005
that.
48:56.485 --> 48:59.487
We even at our, and we made a point of this,
48:59.947 --> 49:03.169
when we do our in-house tournament, Jeremo's
49:03.189 --> 49:04.570
there, he films it all the time, every time
49:04.610 --> 49:07.932
we do when he comes out. Before we start
49:07.952 --> 49:09.953
the tournament, we do a talk to the parents.
49:10.593 --> 49:13.035
We say, hey parents, here's what we expect
49:13.075 --> 49:15.016
from you. Here's what your kids need from
49:15.056 --> 49:17.457
you. So we use that tournament, we have all
49:17.477 --> 49:20.018
the parents there, and I explain the rules,
49:20.078 --> 49:21.959
I explain the scoring, I walk through the
49:22.100 --> 49:23.700
format, I tell the kids where they're gonna
49:23.740 --> 49:25.621
be, then we get the parents to listen. Like,
49:26.142 --> 49:29.043
hey, this is what expected to you. Cheer
49:29.083 --> 49:31.566
for the other kid, give them positive vibes,
49:32.547 --> 49:34.089
say all those things that we just talked
49:34.129 --> 49:35.830
about and then like, that's it. Leave the
49:35.870 --> 49:38.293
coaching to the coaches. If your kid's crying
49:38.333 --> 49:40.335
on the side, we will take care of it.
49:40.629 --> 49:44.792
Yeah. And it's, it's like, when I first started
49:44.832 --> 49:46.593
coaching, I would get very angry with like
49:46.633 --> 49:48.734
these parents that were interjecting. I started
49:48.774 --> 49:51.136
more recently looking at it, like every parent
49:51.456 --> 49:53.117
wants their kid to succeed. For sure.
49:53.137 --> 49:54.278
They want their kid to be, they want their
49:54.298 --> 49:55.639
kid to be the best. They want their kid to
49:55.679 --> 49:56.019
have fun.
49:56.139 --> 49:58.461
And everyone wants that. And it, you know,
49:58.501 --> 50:01.423
this manipulative kind of grip holding behavior,
50:02.303 --> 50:05.345
though, it's very bad. It is coming from
50:05.385 --> 50:07.247
a place where they deeply care. And if you
50:07.267 --> 50:10.693
can get As a coach, you can flip that and
50:10.733 --> 50:13.855
say, all right, this parent cares. I have
50:13.895 --> 50:16.536
to express to them that we also really care.
50:17.517 --> 50:19.378
And we're just doing it a little bit differently.
50:19.418 --> 50:22.119
So when we don't go over to Johnny when he's
50:22.199 --> 50:24.741
crying because he lost, that doesn't mean
50:24.781 --> 50:27.542
that we don't care. We know that he needs
50:27.622 --> 50:30.644
to go through that to learn X so that when
50:30.684 --> 50:33.065
he's 13, 14 years old and there's pressure
50:33.105 --> 50:35.186
and expectation on the line, He can handle
50:35.206 --> 50:37.407
that, and that's how we're showing that we're
50:37.427 --> 50:39.367
caring. When you interject that, you lose
50:39.387 --> 50:43.008
this and that. I think I've switched that
50:43.048 --> 50:44.469
mentality, and it's been more helpful for
50:44.489 --> 50:46.730
me when communicating with parents.
50:46.930 --> 50:48.830
Yeah. What are some other good tools that
50:48.850 --> 50:50.411
we can use on this age group? We talked about
50:50.431 --> 50:52.725
the stoplight is a good one. I like, I love
50:52.745 --> 50:55.206
the power post one. That one is, you know,
50:55.226 --> 50:58.608
amazing. I think, you know, visualization
50:58.688 --> 51:00.969
can be good at this age. Not necessarily
51:01.009 --> 51:05.011
like visualizing, uh, yourself winning, but
51:05.271 --> 51:08.512
visualizing the past, right? Like having
51:08.552 --> 51:12.554
the kids start thinking about. anchoring
51:12.614 --> 51:14.635
moments that they've had in the past, like
51:15.275 --> 51:16.476
tell me about a time that you were really
51:16.556 --> 51:19.117
confident or really proud of yourself. Cool.
51:19.157 --> 51:20.557
Think about that before your race.
51:20.597 --> 51:24.559
Right. Yep. Right. I, so the tools that I
51:24.639 --> 51:28.480
think, like I think about within our program
51:28.560 --> 51:30.421
and is in everything that we're doing is
51:30.461 --> 51:32.782
progressions. Yep. Right. So when we're teaching
51:32.822 --> 51:35.022
an eight year old to power pose, it's like,
51:35.063 --> 51:37.864
so show me your Superman pose. Right. And
51:37.884 --> 51:40.185
then they all stand like that. That's progressing
51:40.225 --> 51:42.448
down to when they're 18. It's like, let's
51:42.488 --> 51:44.431
see this. Let's see your power pose, man.
51:44.891 --> 51:47.855
Get behind that block, own it, right? That's
51:47.895 --> 51:49.677
a progression. So it's like, you know, the
51:49.777 --> 51:51.800
power posing is great. The yellow light,
51:51.820 --> 51:53.502
green light, our identification where you're
51:53.522 --> 51:56.845
at is great. I think there's a great opportunity
51:56.865 --> 52:00.228
at this age to start kind of laying the seeds
52:00.628 --> 52:04.251
of, of breathing, learning how to properly
52:04.271 --> 52:08.454
breathe. So like I would teach nine and 10
52:06.172 --> 52:08.154
year olds how to box breathe and also belly
52:08.174 --> 52:08.454
breathe.
52:08.494 --> 52:10.436
We do the same thing. Like I will, like I
52:10.476 --> 52:12.377
said, this age, you can start, you know,
52:12.437 --> 52:14.119
running your kids through some like body
52:14.139 --> 52:16.701
weight workouts and like burning them out
52:16.721 --> 52:18.923
a little bit. Right. Like pushing, pushing
52:18.963 --> 52:21.304
them, making them winded. Right. It's okay
52:21.324 --> 52:23.239
at this age. And oftentimes what we'll do
52:23.259 --> 52:24.940
is we'll do that. And then I'm all having
52:25.060 --> 52:26.962
like kneel down. I'm like, close your eyes.
52:27.382 --> 52:29.163
You guys know what to do. And then you hear
52:29.203 --> 52:35.808
just everyone go. And it's awesome. Like
52:36.329 --> 52:38.550
how much under control that they do.
52:38.730 --> 52:41.532
Yeah. And you can utilize it for an anxiety
52:41.573 --> 52:43.454
tool or an emotional relegation tool or just
52:43.514 --> 52:44.535
a relaxation tool.
52:44.575 --> 52:46.616
I mean, I'll do it in the middle of the match,
52:46.957 --> 52:49.338
which you can do in jiu-jitsu, like swimming.
52:50.441 --> 52:52.362
You're like halfway across the pool, right?
52:52.402 --> 52:53.102
It's like the pre-race.
52:53.122 --> 52:54.782
But jiu-jitsu, like it's right in front of
52:54.822 --> 52:56.663
me. You know, a kid might be getting beat,
52:56.803 --> 52:59.143
smashed underneath the other person. They
52:59.163 --> 53:00.944
get mounted, which is like the worst spot
53:01.424 --> 53:02.804
and they're defended and they're safe, but
53:02.824 --> 53:04.485
they're still in a really bad spot. I'll
53:04.505 --> 53:06.505
just like close your eyes and breathe. Yeah.
53:07.125 --> 53:08.766
Because they're like panicking. Right. And
53:08.786 --> 53:11.829
they'll just be like. And I'll just be like,
53:11.849 --> 53:14.111
you know what to do, right? I don't say a
53:14.151 --> 53:16.975
technique to them. I tell them like, you
53:17.035 --> 53:18.657
know what to do. I'm not teaching you anything
53:18.717 --> 53:22.642
right now. Like, show me what you know. You
53:22.682 --> 53:23.523
got it. You got the control.
53:23.877 --> 53:26.078
Yeah. And it's great, like teaching kids
53:26.158 --> 53:29.460
at that age, like those type of like breathing
53:29.480 --> 53:35.284
will, you'll see it when they're 16, 17,
53:23.877 --> 53:34.023
18, where it's like, that's an automatic
53:34.063 --> 53:35.284
thing. We do.
53:35.304 --> 53:37.986
But like any, it'll be automatic everywhere.
53:38.126 --> 53:38.646
Like everywhere.
53:38.666 --> 53:40.407
You're going to catch that kid before a test
53:40.467 --> 53:42.068
doing their little Superman pose on their
53:42.088 --> 53:43.129
way to the classroom.
53:43.189 --> 53:43.349
Right.
53:43.829 --> 53:45.710
That's the beautiful spot about it when you
53:45.750 --> 53:48.092
have a good professional coach that's teaching
53:48.132 --> 53:48.552
these things.
53:48.732 --> 53:51.673
Yes. And, um, you know, we, we start introducing
53:51.733 --> 53:54.473
into goal setting and like, how do we formulate
53:54.493 --> 53:57.054
goals at this age? The whiteboard Wednesday
53:57.094 --> 53:59.295
does a great job of that, but like, what's,
53:59.635 --> 54:01.595
what's a performance goal. What's a process
54:01.615 --> 54:04.196
goal. I like that. And like really basic,
54:04.336 --> 54:06.496
like give me your two process goals. Yeah.
54:06.937 --> 54:10.046
I like learning goals as well. Yes. Especially
54:10.066 --> 54:11.746
jiu-jitsu because there's so many techniques.
54:11.806 --> 54:14.908
Like, hey, what's one technique that you
54:14.928 --> 54:16.448
think you could learn and get a little bit
54:16.528 --> 54:18.769
better at that would have served you today?
54:18.889 --> 54:22.931
Right. One thing that impacted me tremendously
54:22.971 --> 54:26.413
as a coach, which would be interesting for
54:26.453 --> 54:29.156
you to go to, is I went to a seminar for
54:29.176 --> 54:31.598
sports psychology, and they had these tennis
54:31.618 --> 54:35.262
coaches talk about their tennis academy,
54:35.282 --> 54:36.983
which is based in Florida. And these kids
54:37.043 --> 54:40.186
are elite, and they can identify very young,
54:40.347 --> 54:41.828
that kid's good. It's like golf, right?
54:41.968 --> 54:46.032
I feel like I read a book on sport development,
54:46.813 --> 54:48.755
and there was a tennis academy in it. I wonder
54:48.955 --> 54:50.156
if it was the same one.
54:50.496 --> 54:52.656
So these coaches came to talk to us, and
54:52.976 --> 54:56.157
they gave us some of their basic foundations.
54:56.377 --> 54:57.997
One of the things that they talked about
54:58.057 --> 55:01.718
was their pre-practice and post-practice
55:02.098 --> 55:04.699
worksheets that they made every kid go through,
55:05.159 --> 55:08.439
and it started at like nine and 10. And I
55:08.459 --> 55:11.440
can send it to you, but some of them were
55:11.880 --> 55:14.400
very basic. They call them their ABCs, which
55:14.440 --> 55:16.201
is like, what's your goal today in practice?
55:16.221 --> 55:18.381
What's your ABCs today in practice? Have
55:18.461 --> 55:21.142
fun, learn something, right? That's a very,
55:21.282 --> 55:22.622
for a nine and 10 year old, that would be
55:22.642 --> 55:24.783
a great thing to see. Like, that's my goal
55:24.803 --> 55:26.463
today. And then they would go through like,
55:26.943 --> 55:29.724
what are your three process goals for today?
55:29.924 --> 55:31.144
Whatever they were, and they would list them
55:31.204 --> 55:31.324
out.
55:32.265 --> 55:34.225
Let's give an example of a process goal,
55:34.245 --> 55:37.966
because I think a lot of non-coaches won't
55:37.986 --> 55:39.426
necessarily understand what a process goal
55:39.526 --> 55:39.626
is.
55:39.707 --> 55:42.949
Yeah, well, I think that there's, tactical,
55:43.150 --> 55:45.591
technical process goals. So like in the sport
55:45.631 --> 55:49.054
of swimming, I think process goals can be,
55:49.294 --> 55:50.935
there's a wide range of process goals, but
55:50.975 --> 55:52.676
like in the sport of swimming, we're talking
55:52.696 --> 55:55.118
about controllable, specific, positive-oriented
55:55.138 --> 55:56.999
things. So that could be something like,
55:57.460 --> 55:59.141
I'm gonna maintain four dolphin kicks off
55:59.181 --> 56:00.962
every wall, I'm gonna emphasize acceleration
56:01.002 --> 56:04.144
in my turns. In jiu-jitsu, it can be a completely
56:04.164 --> 56:05.305
different type of product. But what we're
56:05.345 --> 56:07.266
talking, something that you can control,
56:08.027 --> 56:10.809
something that's specific. not, we're not
56:10.889 --> 56:13.291
talking about outcome based goals, you know,
56:13.832 --> 56:15.593
a lot of times with the athletes that I'm
56:15.613 --> 56:18.135
dealing with, they're formally prior to practice,
56:18.676 --> 56:20.337
outcome goals of Yeah, I want to maintain
56:20.357 --> 56:22.940
this pace. Yep. That's the outcome of you
56:23.100 --> 56:25.262
doing your process goes really well. Yeah,
56:25.342 --> 56:26.763
you know, acceleration.
56:26.823 --> 56:28.805
I do a lot like, you know, one big thing
56:28.825 --> 56:31.286
that I've worked with on my students is a
56:31.346 --> 56:33.067
lot of them tend to wait for the other person
56:33.087 --> 56:35.928
to go first. Because in jiu-jitsu, there's
56:35.948 --> 56:38.229
a whistle that says go, but you don't attack
56:38.269 --> 56:41.351
the person right away, but you can. And a
56:41.371 --> 56:42.872
lot of people wait for that. So a lot of
56:42.912 --> 56:44.572
my times, my process goal ends up being like,
56:44.652 --> 56:47.714
be the first one to do something. Or be the
56:47.754 --> 56:50.215
first person to get a grip, or something
56:50.255 --> 56:52.176
like that. I think those are really great
56:52.756 --> 56:55.677
process goals, and in my opinion, Those lay
56:55.697 --> 56:57.238
the foundation to actually winning.
56:57.498 --> 57:01.040
Right. Yeah. And I, you know, back to that
57:01.140 --> 57:03.721
worksheet though, is what I gained from is
57:03.741 --> 57:05.422
like, imagine if you set up your program
57:05.562 --> 57:07.523
where nine and 10 year olds, two minutes
57:07.563 --> 57:09.664
before practice, they start off before they
57:09.684 --> 57:11.125
even get in the water, they go into their
57:11.145 --> 57:14.086
sport, they spend 30 seconds, mindful breathing.
57:14.426 --> 57:16.507
And while they're breathing right after that,
57:16.627 --> 57:17.628
they're thinking about, all right, what's
57:17.668 --> 57:19.088
the goal for day in practice? What would
57:19.108 --> 57:21.069
be like two things that you're trying to
57:21.089 --> 57:22.630
accomplish? And then those nine and 10 year
57:22.650 --> 57:24.831
olds said something like, You know, we're
57:24.851 --> 57:26.312
going to work on our turns, or we're going
57:26.332 --> 57:27.953
to accelerate under our walls, whatever.
57:28.373 --> 57:30.494
Two things. And they did it on their own.
57:31.014 --> 57:33.035
Mindful breathing, so whatever, it's box
57:33.095 --> 57:35.736
breathing, belly breathing, two minutes about
57:35.776 --> 57:37.817
belly breathing, power posing. Now spend
57:37.857 --> 57:39.078
a minute thinking about what you're trying
57:39.098 --> 57:40.598
to do before practice. And they got on the
57:40.618 --> 57:42.499
water and they did their thing. And then
57:42.519 --> 57:44.081
at 11 and 12, they progress that. All right,
57:44.141 --> 57:46.242
we're gonna spend a minute power posing,
57:46.282 --> 57:47.924
belly breathing. I want you to think about
57:48.044 --> 57:50.226
two things. And maybe the coach feeds it
57:50.266 --> 57:52.948
a little bit. But now it's a little bit higher
57:52.988 --> 57:54.969
level stuff. And then at 13, 14, we progress
57:55.009 --> 57:57.351
it. And then by 15 and 18, they are doing
57:57.371 --> 57:59.433
it. They have their training journals. They're
57:59.473 --> 58:01.314
writing down their process goals. They're
58:01.354 --> 58:03.897
reflecting afterwards. It's like, if you
58:03.917 --> 58:05.858
could set up your program like that, would
58:05.878 --> 58:08.740
your kids be better? Yes, 100%. And it's
58:08.940 --> 58:10.621
that's very hard thing to do. But if you
58:10.641 --> 58:13.383
put it into a practice scenario, like introducing
58:13.523 --> 58:15.564
mental performance tools within practice,
58:15.624 --> 58:18.265
yeah. And I, I think that you can do that
58:18.325 --> 58:18.905
at nine and 10.
58:19.165 --> 58:20.946
Yeah, you know, it's teaching so much more
58:21.006 --> 58:23.247
than the sport. Yes. And again, we talked
58:23.287 --> 58:27.270
about like, Professional programs club programs,
58:27.470 --> 58:29.671
you know, are you guys at Schrader swim club?
58:29.972 --> 58:31.333
Yeah, you're not much of a club You're like
58:31.373 --> 58:34.134
a professional when I think of club I think
58:34.174 --> 58:36.776
of like youth soccer that me and you played
58:36.976 --> 58:38.557
right growing up with like just all the other
58:38.597 --> 58:40.419
little city teams and stuff like that with
58:40.599 --> 58:43.260
the volunteer coaches and stuff and Um, and
58:43.280 --> 58:45.002
I feel like you don't get a lot of that in
58:45.022 --> 58:46.803
those programs unless those parents also
58:46.843 --> 58:48.864
went through something like that.
58:49.324 --> 58:51.666
The, and I, I also think that sometimes,
58:51.786 --> 58:55.708
yeah, and sometimes coaches, coaches sometimes
58:55.928 --> 58:58.570
are doing a disservice to athletes when they
58:58.670 --> 59:01.132
are like, it's outside their scope. They
59:01.152 --> 59:03.613
don't understand the harm. Like I'll give
59:03.633 --> 59:06.475
you an example. We had a eight and under
59:06.515 --> 59:09.097
coach and this guy meant well, yeah. And
59:09.137 --> 59:13.778
he, He really cared, but he thought that
59:13.798 --> 59:17.260
it was a great idea to implement best time
59:17.421 --> 59:20.162
buttons. So if you win a best time, you get
59:20.223 --> 59:22.204
a button and then the kids would put it on
59:22.224 --> 59:27.307
their bags. Me thinking now, is that harmful
59:27.327 --> 59:30.970
or hurtful? 100% hurtful. When I go a best
59:30.990 --> 59:35.186
time, I get a button. Yeah. It's a great
59:35.226 --> 59:37.910
thing to think about, but long term, what
59:38.310 --> 59:40.453
are you developing? What's the value developing?
59:40.913 --> 59:42.715
Well, when I go best times, that means I
59:42.755 --> 59:45.299
had a good race. You can have a really good
59:45.359 --> 59:47.682
race and not go a best time. You also can
59:47.702 --> 59:50.284
have a bad race and go a best time. So if
59:50.304 --> 59:52.806
you're valuing the outcome of this, every
59:52.826 --> 59:54.848
time you go, and I don't get a best time
59:54.888 --> 59:57.911
button, even though I really had an executional
59:57.971 --> 01:00:00.032
race, no, you don't get a best time button.
01:00:00.453 --> 01:00:03.995
So it's like, this guy meant well, but unless
01:00:04.035 --> 01:00:07.358
you have this professionalism into thinking
01:00:07.398 --> 01:00:10.681
of coaching, of like, I'm developing athletes
01:00:10.701 --> 01:00:12.102
outside of swimming.
01:00:12.582 --> 01:00:16.165
Let the competition reward the outcome, right?
01:00:17.586 --> 01:00:18.867
if you win the competition, get a medal,
01:00:19.007 --> 01:00:21.129
let them get that medal. I think you as a
01:00:21.169 --> 01:00:23.511
coach and you as a parent need to reward
01:00:23.591 --> 01:00:26.393
that effort effort, the effort that came
01:00:26.553 --> 01:00:29.355
up into the competition and the effort that
01:00:29.915 --> 01:00:35.740
happened at it. Right? Man, that's, I think
01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:36.801
that's one of probably one of the biggest
01:00:36.841 --> 01:00:38.862
takeaways for parents is like, just recognize
01:00:38.882 --> 01:00:39.863
the effort that they're putting in.
01:00:40.120 --> 01:00:43.201
Yeah. And the kids nowadays, like there's
01:00:43.261 --> 01:00:46.163
so many external rewards. It's going to happen.
01:00:46.443 --> 01:00:48.724
Yeah. They are already comparing to others.
01:00:48.784 --> 01:00:50.425
You don't need to further that.
01:00:50.665 --> 01:00:52.026
Yeah. We just talked about it in our, in
01:00:52.066 --> 01:00:55.167
our pies, right? Socially they compare themselves
01:00:55.207 --> 01:01:00.730
to their peers. Um, man, what other competition
01:01:00.750 --> 01:01:02.230
things we cover just so much right there
01:01:02.350 --> 01:01:05.052
for, uh, this age group, what other competition
01:01:05.072 --> 01:01:05.932
things do we have for them?
01:01:08.249 --> 01:01:10.692
Um, you know, for us too, is like, this is
01:01:10.772 --> 01:01:13.514
the age group that some of these kids, and
01:01:13.554 --> 01:01:18.658
I think it's an. We get introduced to national
01:01:18.758 --> 01:01:19.899
competitions.
01:01:19.979 --> 01:01:21.640
I think it's also because you start getting
01:01:21.700 --> 01:01:24.181
outliers at these ages that end up being
01:01:24.261 --> 01:01:27.643
well beyond their peers. Yeah. When do you
01:01:27.663 --> 01:01:30.705
guys start? Is that this age group as nationals?
01:01:30.905 --> 01:01:34.487
Nationals can get introduced at 10.
01:01:34.967 --> 01:01:37.308
So we talked about when a kid should go from
01:01:37.849 --> 01:01:43.091
an in-house to a local, or even a regional
01:01:43.191 --> 01:01:46.209
sort of a thing. And typically if they're
01:01:46.229 --> 01:01:47.789
starting at five or six, that's when they're
01:01:47.809 --> 01:01:49.850
doing their in-houses. And by this age, they're
01:01:49.870 --> 01:01:53.411
doing the local stuff. My personal opinion
01:01:53.431 --> 01:01:55.632
still is if they come in at this age group,
01:01:55.672 --> 01:01:57.893
they should do some in-house first and then
01:01:57.973 --> 01:02:02.575
local. But how do you progress them at that
01:01:34.967 --> 01:02:04.935
10 years old to the national level? And we
01:02:04.955 --> 01:02:06.536
don't have to get into like national athletic
01:02:06.636 --> 01:02:08.677
development, but they're at that stepping
01:02:08.717 --> 01:02:10.197
stone age where you're going to get a couple
01:02:10.217 --> 01:02:12.118
of kids that are there.
01:02:12.386 --> 01:02:14.767
Yeah, and I think it's very critical for
01:02:15.007 --> 01:02:17.569
kids, no matter the age group, to get exposed
01:02:18.129 --> 01:02:20.370
to people that are better than them. Like
01:02:20.410 --> 01:02:22.271
if you're winning all the time, that's really
01:02:22.331 --> 01:02:22.872
not good for you.
01:02:22.892 --> 01:02:24.092
You don't get smarter being the smartest
01:02:24.112 --> 01:02:24.552
person in the room.
01:02:24.572 --> 01:02:26.213
Yeah, it's really not good for you. So I
01:02:26.253 --> 01:02:29.075
think there is value to, all right, go out
01:02:29.115 --> 01:02:30.616
there and raise some kids that are better
01:02:30.656 --> 01:02:32.876
than you. There is a lot of value to that,
01:02:33.017 --> 01:02:35.878
but then there's the loot of like, well,
01:02:35.918 --> 01:02:37.358
I'm not at the national competition, that
01:02:37.378 --> 01:02:39.179
means I'm not good, or oh, they're at the
01:02:39.219 --> 01:02:41.059
national competition, they can swim at X
01:02:41.099 --> 01:02:45.121
school. For example, Michael Phelps was not
01:02:45.221 --> 01:02:48.042
good, like really good, until he was like
01:02:24.572 --> 01:02:48.042
14.
01:02:49.362 --> 01:02:50.743
Is that when he grew to be super big and
01:02:50.783 --> 01:02:52.143
his hands the size of dinner plates?
01:02:52.783 --> 01:02:55.624
Probably, but also there was like, he was
01:02:55.705 --> 01:02:58.285
playing a bunch of different sports and he
01:02:58.345 --> 01:02:59.246
enjoyed the water.
01:03:00.206 --> 01:03:02.688
And as you should, as a kid that age, explore
01:03:02.728 --> 01:03:03.548
other activities.
01:03:03.789 --> 01:03:08.192
Yes. And I think that many parents early
01:03:08.212 --> 01:03:10.653
at this age, nine and 10 are starting to
01:03:11.374 --> 01:03:13.935
think about, all right, is this the sport
01:03:13.995 --> 01:03:15.657
that my kid is going to specialize in?
01:03:16.657 --> 01:03:19.519
It's only going to get worse because WIA
01:03:19.739 --> 01:03:21.981
just allowed like year round contact with
01:03:22.021 --> 01:03:24.162
coaches for high school students. So it's
01:03:24.202 --> 01:03:27.124
like when we were growing up, you had students
01:03:27.184 --> 01:03:29.065
at varsity at all four seasons in four different
01:03:29.085 --> 01:03:31.387
sports. You're going to see a lot more solo
01:03:31.628 --> 01:03:33.309
athletes at the high school level, which
01:03:33.369 --> 01:03:36.052
is going to drive solo athletes at the middle
01:03:36.092 --> 01:03:37.393
school and going to middle school level.
01:03:37.694 --> 01:03:40.376
Yep. And, um, you know, I do think that there's,
01:03:40.576 --> 01:03:42.098
especially in our sport where we're in a
01:03:42.118 --> 01:03:43.920
different ecosystem, anytime an ecosystem,
01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:47.603
there's a time for specialization, but at
01:03:37.694 --> 01:03:50.085
10 years old, that's not the time. It's just
01:03:50.125 --> 01:03:52.166
not. And the more that you can keep your
01:03:52.206 --> 01:03:57.169
kid exposed to other activities, the greater
01:03:57.249 --> 01:03:58.970
chance they have for long-term development.
01:03:59.030 --> 01:04:01.371
Remember when like cross-training was like
01:04:01.651 --> 01:04:04.912
the big thing? Like everyone should be cross-training.
01:04:05.253 --> 01:04:07.654
It was like five or ten years ago. And now
01:04:07.674 --> 01:04:09.835
it's like everyone's just doing one.
01:04:09.875 --> 01:04:11.776
Specialized. Yeah. Yeah. And we got to get
01:04:11.816 --> 01:04:13.377
this trainer nutritionist and strength, you
01:04:13.797 --> 01:04:17.021
know, it's like, What we're trying to do
01:04:17.121 --> 01:04:20.323
in nine and 10 is to continue the progress
01:04:20.343 --> 01:04:24.744
of growth of having fun. And we know there's
01:04:24.784 --> 01:04:27.065
going to be external things that are going
01:04:27.085 --> 01:04:29.866
to get thrown at the kid that are going to
01:04:29.926 --> 01:04:31.847
kind of limit that fun. So there's going
01:04:31.867 --> 01:04:33.267
to be standards. There's me a winner and
01:04:33.287 --> 01:04:36.368
loser. There's going to be social comparison.
01:04:36.769 --> 01:04:38.349
There's going to be bigger competitions.
01:04:38.849 --> 01:04:41.270
So as parents and as coaches, we don't need
01:04:41.310 --> 01:04:45.112
to further that. We need to Like, limit how
01:04:45.172 --> 01:04:46.752
much pressure we're putting into those.
01:04:48.093 --> 01:04:51.734
Man, so we hit pies, athletic development,
01:04:52.075 --> 01:04:54.676
a lot of approaches and awesome tips for
01:04:54.956 --> 01:04:57.797
kids this age, right? That golden age of
01:04:58.037 --> 01:04:59.818
athletic development, like they're really
01:04:59.858 --> 01:05:01.738
starting to get it. They're starting to get
01:05:01.758 --> 01:05:04.360
their first like real competitions consistently
01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:07.781
at this age. Last episode, we did a good
01:05:07.921 --> 01:05:11.122
challenge for parents. What's a good challenge
01:05:11.162 --> 01:05:14.043
for parents that they should try to do over
01:05:14.083 --> 01:05:15.964
the next week with their kids in sports?
01:05:17.084 --> 01:05:22.166
I think the challenge as a parent at this
01:05:22.246 --> 01:05:24.967
age is to start creating more ownership with
01:05:24.987 --> 01:05:27.887
their kid. They are going to some practice
01:05:28.188 --> 01:05:32.089
because they want to. They get to decide.
01:05:32.529 --> 01:05:34.330
Start putting them more in the vehicle seat
01:05:34.450 --> 01:05:36.591
versus you. The more that you can do that,
01:05:36.671 --> 01:05:37.992
the more that you're setting them up for
01:05:38.032 --> 01:05:39.893
success, which is similar to like the six
01:05:39.933 --> 01:05:43.495
and nine-year-old, or three, four, five,
01:05:43.535 --> 01:05:45.837
six-year-olds, like don't interject. But
01:05:45.957 --> 01:05:47.638
you have to continue that, and now, and like,
01:05:47.958 --> 01:05:50.060
how do you create ownership within your kid
01:05:50.500 --> 01:05:50.900
in sport?
01:05:51.901 --> 01:05:55.904
I love it. I'm going to give the one of just
01:05:55.984 --> 01:05:59.467
praising the process. Praise the effort that
01:05:59.487 --> 01:06:01.309
they're putting in. Don't necessarily praise
01:06:01.349 --> 01:06:05.353
the outcomes. I'm not saying when they win,
01:06:05.593 --> 01:06:08.276
don't acknowledge it. Yeah, of course. Give
01:06:08.296 --> 01:06:10.878
them a high five, but give them a high five
01:06:10.938 --> 01:06:12.379
and be like, man, all that hard work you
01:06:12.399 --> 01:06:12.860
did paid off.
01:06:12.920 --> 01:06:16.756
Exactly. You reward You know, the reason
01:06:16.796 --> 01:06:18.717
why you won today is you're better than everyone
01:06:18.757 --> 01:06:21.619
else. You went out there and you've been
01:06:21.659 --> 01:06:23.540
working so hard and you went out there and
01:06:23.580 --> 01:06:25.321
you just went in and attacked it. Yeah. And
01:06:25.361 --> 01:06:27.323
I love watching you go out there and just
01:06:28.223 --> 01:06:28.544
racing.
01:06:29.284 --> 01:06:32.446
It seems so obvious, but us as coaches, the
01:06:32.466 --> 01:06:35.008
amount of times that we see the contrary
01:06:35.048 --> 01:06:36.089
to that is often.
01:06:36.229 --> 01:06:36.369
Yeah.
01:06:37.210 --> 01:06:39.711
Awesome, man. Well, um, anything else in
01:06:39.751 --> 01:06:41.353
this age group that we want to touch on before
01:06:41.393 --> 01:06:41.933
we wrap up?
01:06:42.372 --> 01:06:45.094
No, I think it's a foundational age group.
01:06:45.594 --> 01:06:46.175
Awesome.
01:06:47.336 --> 01:06:49.377
If people are looking to work out with you,
01:06:49.638 --> 01:06:53.280
swim with you, do sports psychology, get
01:06:53.300 --> 01:06:55.102
some sports psychology help with you, what's
01:06:55.122 --> 01:06:55.542
the best way?
01:06:55.862 --> 01:06:57.944
You can reach us at the Schrader Swim Team
01:06:58.044 --> 01:07:02.087
or clewis at wsacltd.org or championshipmind
01:07:02.427 --> 01:07:04.068
at chandler at championshipmind.com.
01:07:04.108 --> 01:07:07.091
The links will be in the bio description.
01:07:07.651 --> 01:07:09.613
whatever comes alongside a podcast. It's
01:07:09.653 --> 01:07:11.274
a good one. Uh, it's right next to the spot
01:07:11.294 --> 01:07:12.735
where you leave us a five star review. So
01:07:12.755 --> 01:07:14.316
please leave us a five star review on this
01:07:14.356 --> 01:07:16.798
podcast, share it with your friends. Um,
01:07:17.359 --> 01:07:19.120
but parents like a big tip, you know, when
01:07:19.140 --> 01:07:20.861
you listen to this, share it with the other
01:07:20.901 --> 01:07:23.083
teammates, right? Try to get the parents
01:07:23.243 --> 01:07:25.105
on the same page. We talk about how important
01:07:25.165 --> 01:07:27.887
the team's culture is amongst the athletes
01:07:28.367 --> 01:07:30.149
develop a positive team culture amongst the
01:07:30.189 --> 01:07:32.110
parents too, where the parents are helping
01:07:32.150 --> 01:07:34.852
out the parents. Next episode, we're doing
01:07:34.892 --> 01:07:39.255
like 11 to 14. Interesting one. You said
01:07:39.275 --> 01:07:41.337
that's when Michael Phelps started specializing,
01:07:41.397 --> 01:07:41.577
right?
01:07:41.597 --> 01:07:43.218
Yeah, this is a big age group.
01:07:43.238 --> 01:07:46.441
Man, puberty starts kicking in. They can
01:07:46.461 --> 01:07:51.364
start getting into strength training. We
01:07:51.384 --> 01:07:53.585
started getting some volatile confidence
01:07:54.445 --> 01:07:57.327
challenges. I'm excited for that one. So
01:07:43.238 --> 01:08:19.535
11 to 14, and then we're going off to 15
01:08:00.508 --> 01:08:04.369
beyond. That next level, a lot of times,
01:08:04.689 --> 01:08:06.230
what's going to carry people to the end of
01:08:06.290 --> 01:08:10.752
their athletic career? Most people. But hopefully
01:08:10.792 --> 01:08:12.453
finding a way that they can even continue
01:08:12.473 --> 01:08:16.454
past that. So thanks for joining. It's always
01:08:16.514 --> 01:08:18.075
awesome to have you on the podcast, Chandler,
01:08:18.175 --> 01:08:19.535
and excited for that next episode. 100%.