OM DENNE EPISODE
Experience the journey of Chef Josh Morris and his unconventional path to success as he teaches us to elevate those around us and appreciate life's blessings.
"Being a chef is about elevating everybody around you. Right. Because they've got to execute your dream, your visions. So the idea is to elevate everybody around you."
Josh Morris is a chef from Gainesville, Texas who has been cooking for 20 years. He has an obsessive personality and has been influenced by his wife and Anthony Bourdain to pursue a career in the culinary arts.
Josh Morris was always passionate about cooking, but lacked formal direction. Unfazed by the lack of formal training and with a strong puppy-love for the industry, he took it upon himself to learn and grow in the kitchen. He took on restaurant roles and quickly found himself in leadership positions, learning valuable lessons about delegating tasks and elevating those around him. When he had children, though, he found himself having to take things more seriously, as he had to provide for them. He was gifted with children, and subsequently had to adjust his priorities, his decision making process, and even become a student of books. Ultimately, this is how Josh Morris learned about delegating tasks in the kitchen.
In this episode, you will learn the following:
1. How Do You Delegate Responsibilities as a Chef?
2. What Are the Challenges of Being an Underprivileged Chef?
3. What Are the Pros and Cons of Going to Culinary School?
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Other episodes you'll enjoy:
Josh Morris: Balancing a chefs drive with family life
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Transcript:
Welcome back, everyone. We're here with Chef Josh Morris. Man, I almost lost it again. There Josh Morris. And we're doing compare. Contrast. Not even that. I'm going to kind of edit that out. All right, let's start this over. All right, everybody, welcome back. We're here with Josh Morris, and we're going to be talking paths. The path I took versus the path he took. Very different paths, but pretty much ended up in the same spot at one point. So not really a but we did. So, Morris, tell me kind of your path a little bit now. The other part to this, though, is we're not going to touch base for everybody listening on his entire kind of history. If you want to know more about Morris, go ahead and take a look at season one, episode one, and there's a full interview with him then kind of a little bit more detailed about who he is, the life of his apparent and chef and all that fun stuff. Morris, your path?
Speaker B 00:05:16
Yeah.
Speaker A 00:05:17
I mean, what got you into it then?
Speaker B 00:05:21
I grew up in Gainesville, Texas. It's a really small town just south of the Oklahoma border. Didn't have a lot of money growing up. Our meals consisted of ground beef, potatoes, cream of mushroom soup for pretty much every meal. There was no interest in food in my entire family, except my great aunt owned a diner on the town square.
Speaker A 00:05:56
Right on.
Speaker B 00:05:57
And at one point or another, everybody in my family worked there. But it wasn't like any interest in the restaurant business. It was just a way to make money.
Speaker A 00:06:07
Sure.
Speaker B 00:06:08
I even worked there a couple of times. I remember being like, nine or ten years old and standing on a milk crate so that I could reach the plates in the bottom of the three bay.
Speaker A 00:06:19
Yes.
Speaker B 00:06:23
That was pretty much the extent of it. We ate a lot of canned vegetables, but both at the grandparents had gardens, so we'd have tomatoes and peppers and onions in the summer. And I was the kind of kid that I didn't hate anything. Most kids like having a don't like broccoli or asparagus or something like that, and I just loved food all the time. It didn't really matter what it was. And I liked going out to restaurants, even though we didn't do it very often. I think because we didn't do it very often, it was much more of an experience. And I can remember as a kid being really excited to go out and meet with my parents, and my kids are most definitely not like that. We're going out to eat again. Why? I've always been a creative person as a kid. I would draw a lot. I got into music fairly early. I was a writer for a while, so I've always had that creative bug. But actually getting into the restaurant business was it was just for money. It didn't really hold any other appeal other than a nice steady paycheck at first. And then as a cook in a town that's kind of, like, known to be a drug town, got to fall into the pitfalls of that lifestyle. Like, a lot of drinking, a lot of drugs, a lot of hard partying, and your ambitions kind of fade when you're living like that. I mean, it's just like the whole point is to get fucked up. I lived that way for, I don't know, from the time I was 17 till I was, like, 20 or 21. When I turned 21, I got into a relationship with a girl that had two small kids. And I didn't get into that with any intention of becoming, like, a father figure, but that's ultimately what happened. It was a very fucked up relationship, to say the least, but she ended up being a really bad person, and she left us. She left me and the kids. So I became a single father for a while, and I was working two cook jobs at the time and taking care of kids by myself. So it was kind of a hard row for a while. But the bug, I guess, was always there for creating stuff. But I worked in restaurants where there was zero creativity. It was all about volume. Right. It wasn't until I started dating my wife now that the idea of becoming a chef really sat in. And the two people that I cannot overstate their influence on my career are my wife, who allowed me to pursue more dreams of becoming a chef, and bourdain. I think a lot of chefs of our generation can chop bourdain quite a bit. So for the first ten years, I say I've been cooking for 20 years. For the first ten years, I cooked things in a microwave. The only skill I really picked up there was how to be fast, how to be efficient, and how to cook a steak with your fingers, which is a great skill to have.
Speaker A 00:10:08
There's one good takeaway.
Speaker B 00:10:10
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A 00:10:16
Obviously, your wife was I'm assuming she was in the industry when you met her then.
Speaker B 00:10:22
Yeah, we actually knew each other at that first restaurant. We worked together, but we didn't date for the first ten years that we knew each other.
Speaker A 00:10:30
Okay.
Speaker B 00:10:31
Our path just kind of crossed back together later on in life, and things turned out okay after all that bullshit.
Speaker A 00:10:42
That I went through, what got you into cooking? What is it about her that got you into it? Was she just kind of did you cook at home and were more creative? And she's like, man, you need to drive this further?
Speaker B 00:10:58
It was certainly that. Yeah, because when I was a single dad and I had two jobs, I would have $50 to last three people groceries for two weeks.
Speaker A 00:11:11
Fucking impressive. Yeah.
Speaker B 00:11:14
I did what I had to do, but there's not a lot of creativity to be had when you have to live off the bare minimum. But once I had her second income, and we got a house, and she was a really great cook. And I was just, like, sitting in the kitchen and watch it because I was so impressed by the things that she knew. And she just learned this stuff from watching cooking shows. So I started watching cooking shows, and of course, Bourdain was the big one, even though he didn't cook that much on that show, he resonated with me because he was a rider, too. He was definitely rebellious, but he had this real empathy for other people and certain romanticism about a cook's life.
Speaker A 00:12:04
Not just a cook's life, but just the food and cultures and just so many things that were so unappreciated in the world. He definitely took us all to places that people were lack of a better term were kind of scared to go.
Speaker B 00:12:22
Yes. And it was through that kind of channel where I've always been poor and I've never had the chance to travel, or even when I started thinking about becoming a chef, I didn't have the opportunity to go stage in fancy kitchens or anything like that. I really didn't understand the means of how to even go about doing any of those things.
Speaker A 00:12:51
That makes sense. I mean, yeah, when you're getting into it, like, it takes time to really understand and then comprehend. I know this seemed like the same word, but it's almost two different words because you kind of understand what cooking is and where you're going, and then there's that next level when you're talking about going and stagging at places, and it's like, wait, what? Then there's the concept of people like, I have to do this. And you're like, no, you don't have to. Right. But it definitely helps with experience for those resume builders out there. It is.
Speaker B 00:13:39
But I've always kind of had an obsessive personality. Like, whatever I'm into, I'm 100% fully into it. So when I started thinking about food and becoming a chef, I would have dinner parties at my house, trying new things. I would get books from the library, just, like, stacks and stacks of them. And I think because of Bourdain, like, the travel shows, I really started to lean into flavors and cultures that I wasn't familiar with. So big, bold flavors really appealed to me at first. Korean food, Caribbean, African, all these ingredients and flavors that I didn't understand. And when I finally did become a soup chef and had input on a menu, even though it didn't really fit with where I was, those were the things that I would push. And that was kind of a frequent pitfall of chefs when they're coming up. I think as you start to cook for you and you don't really cook for the guest, you're just kind of like, what can I do? How can I create what's next?
Speaker A 00:14:56
Yeah, especially as a young cook in ensue, because you get so you're enamored by it all. And just your love. And it's such that almost like puppy love stage. I've always been that chef. I was in that same spot. But being that chef, having those younger cooks and Sue's that have always wanted to bring stuff to the table, and you're always kind of looking at it and you're like, man, how do I let the air out of this balloon slowly? Because it's one of those, like, man, I love this. This is great. I love the energy, but it's like, okay, it doesn't fit. So it's like, how can we keep pushing that same energy and be encouraging, but also tell them, like, there's no way in hell it's going to be on the menu.
Speaker B 00:15:54
And there were some times where I definitely had to learn the hard way, where I would do a tasting for people. They're like, there's no fucking way you can sell this good though it might be, like, it just doesn't fit concept, and it's just kind of weak. And even as a sous chef, like I said, with the obsessive nature that I had, I pushed hard. I would work 60, 70 hours, weeks. And from where I came from, I was a leader in that kind of field. But the way I got there is because I would do things that nobody else would do. And I did them fast and I did them well. So I became, like this machine of self sufficiency, but I didn't know how to delegate. And that was another pitfall that came from when I did become an executive chef, was I took that burden all on myself, and I did not let anybody else touch my shit.
Speaker A 00:16:59
No, I think that's a common one for so many people when they get into it, and even with people with experience, when they get into a new role, with new people around them not learning, but just actually delegating. Because everybody knows that you have to kind of delegate stuff out to get things done. Because it's not like you just woke up one day, never walked into a restaurant, and then you're just, hey, I'm running the show here. No, I mean, you understood. You've been a part of it. You've been delegated, too. So, I mean, there's a party to you that knew what you needed to do, but there's that fear of, like, man, this is all on me now. And so the concept of delegating becomes really, really difficult to kind of comprehend and actually deal out. I've been there. I've been in that chef and then went to a new restaurant, new town, new city, new state, and had to be that guy and the delegate things out. But I didn't trust anybody. The spotlight was on me again, right? But it was, like, on a very different platform, so there's even more pressure. And I had to fall in my face a few times. And it's part of the learning process.
Speaker B 00:18:33
Yeah, for sure. I think these are all very common problems, but they sucked at the time.
Speaker A 00:18:40
But they're not going to go away.
Speaker B 00:18:44
Failure is how you learn. So I learned a lot. And then I got promoted from sue chef to executive chef. That was a huge deal for me. And I was executive chef for probably four months, and I was really starting to find my vibe. And then Kovich shut down everything. The reason I bring this up is, aside from kind of losing my vibe, I was out of work for almost three months. For the first month, I was trapped at home with the kids. My wife was still working, her restaurant was still open.
Speaker A 00:19:23
Trapped is a good way to put it.
Speaker B 00:19:28
I really did kind of hit like a spiral of depression for a minute because it was just like there's a lot of uncertainty about where my future was, if the restaurant was going to come back, if I was going to have a job still. But once I kind of broke free of that, I really just needed something to do to keep my mind busy. So I started a garden in the backyard, and I started getting more into that. And I called you up and I borrowed some old school, like, chef books. That happened is because I was reading French Laundry book, and Thomas Keller talked about how he became an executive chef before he even really learned how to cook. And that one sentence hit me hard. I was like, oh, my God. I've just been like, snowballing all this shit that I've just kind of been teaching myself without ever really knowing any fundamentals. So that's why it hits you up to borrow, like, escophier and things of that nature. It's like reading the Bible. It's hard to sit there and just read the Staffier. You power through it and you learn. One of the bigger ones that hit me was the Irving book that you let me borrow, the secular gastronomy, which that term and modernist cuisine kind of get lumped in together when they're not the fucking same. Modernist cuisine became all the foams and the hydrocolloids and things of that nature. The actual molecular gastronomy was started in the it's just a science behind why things work the way they do. Easy stuff, too. Like, why are your mashed potatoes gloomy?
Speaker A 00:21:27
Yeah, I'm looking up to see when that book was originally published. I mean, the one that's showing me is 2002, but that's not right because I've owned that book before then. Fairly certain it was from the think so, yeah. Chef Herve, his stuff that he talks about in that book was like the concept of sou vide and so much of that. It's called molecular gastronomy, but it's almost more just like the science of cooking, right? Yeah. And it's a great book. I really enjoyed it. Another one, honestly, I don't own it, and I don't know why, but on food and cooking. Harold McGee it's essentially the American version of molecular gastronomy, right? Exploring the science of flavors. So those are both great or not research, but reference books.
Speaker B 00:22:41
Yeah. And that was I don't know, it was a big learning curve for me, like really diving into the old school French instead of the stuff that I had been doing. My interest was piqued into learning how to do that stuff, so I would practice at home. I also got really into fermentation while I was on lockdown, so I didn't have much else to do.
Speaker A 00:23:07
I'm just going to sit here and watch this thing bubble.
Speaker B 00:23:12
I got really good at making my own vinegars. That was a big one. Doing a lot of pickles. I would say that COVID for me, was actually kind of a good thing. It sucked. But at the same time, I stayed busy and I stayed learning. And I learned a lot of stuff that I wouldn't have learned if I was still so busy at the restaurant that I don't have time for reading and diving and things like that. So we came back from COVID and obviously product was hard to come by. And that was probably the funnest couple of months of my cooking career. Because we were open dinner only for a while. I brought back my top cooks. We had a skeleton crew. We changed the menu almost daily. We had a blast. We and the crew had a blast. For the first couple of months, things started to reopen. We got back into the flow pretty quickly. Business was back, it was booming. But I still had I guess my ideas were getting bigger than where I was. There were certain things that I knew I could never do at that restaurant. And I already have kind of a chip on my shoulder because I was 27 when I decided to work at a real kitchen. And like I said, I didn't have a chance to stage or anything like that. So anything that I didn't learn at that restaurant, I taught myself.
Speaker A 00:24:54
Right.
Speaker B 00:24:54
I've always felt like I was behind the eight ball, so I had a lot to prove. Still do. But out of the 20 years that I've been working in kitchens, I've only been a chef by title for almost three years. And that's another, I guess, kind of chip on the shoulder, is like, how do I still consider myself a chef? I haven't had that title for almost two years now.
Speaker A 00:25:25
It's just a title.
Speaker B 00:25:27
Yeah, I try to tell myself that I consider myself a chef and that's what's fucking important. This is what I've decided to dedicate my life to. And I do. But I still do.
Speaker A 00:25:44
No, I mean, for me, the concept of chef and the titles, the name and title gets thrown around in a lot of ways. You know what I'm talking about. And to me, the concept of a chef and being able to call yourself a chef means that you've been a part of a restaurant where you are in a leadership role that also involved creativity. Right. Okay. Being in a leadership role, that's a whole nother level of creativity. If you have ever tried to figure out the scheduling, sometimes during labor crisis and during COVID and stuff that's talk about creativity as well as just punishing yourself, but I'm talking about more creativity in the world of cooking. Right. And also being able to go to someone and almost become their mentor and be able to teach them. Because being a chef is about elevating everybody around you. Right. Because they've got to execute your dream, your visions. So the idea is to elevate everybody around you. And to me, that's a chef, someone that's in a leadership role that can elevate the people around them, that would be a better way to say it.
Speaker B 00:27:20
I like that.
Speaker A 00:27:21
Yeah. So with that, you qualify.
Speaker B 00:27:28
No, thank you.
Speaker A 00:27:34
Now that you've got my blessing. All right.
Speaker B 00:27:44
That's where we're at.
Speaker A 00:27:47
Grew up, we'll say underprivileged no real direction, and finally kind of found that direction. Did not go to any kind of formal culinary training. Informal culinary training. All your training was just self taught.
Speaker B 00:28:13
Yeah.
Speaker A 00:28:17
And then finally just the whole, like, okay, time to get into restaurants. Like, lack of a term. A real restaurant. Real restaurant, meaning a scratch kitchen that did not own a microwave. Right. And then just learning the ropes.
Speaker B 00:28:39
Yeah. And I pushed just as hard as I did when I was executive chef, but I didn't really have a lot of backup because my soup chefs were guys that were still running the line. They still had to run chefs. They were part of the cooking crew, so I couldn't put too much on their plate as far as, like, ordering and inventory. I kind of did a disservice to them. I'm not going to lie by not teaching them those things. But at the same time, it was just kind of, like, head down, do it. I worked sick. I worked 70 to 80 hours a week sometimes. I worked a couple of 36 hours shifts. And those are the things you do because you love it. You will literally drive yourself into a fucking hole. But it's all for the love.
Speaker A 00:29:39
Yeah.
Speaker B 00:29:46
I think to a normal person, hearing that you worked a 36 hours shift is so mind blowing. You worked almost 40 hours in two days. Yes, I did.
Speaker A 00:30:04
There's so many people that aren't familiar with the industry that if they happen to be listening to this, are going to call bullshit on that too, because they're like, It's not possible. And it's like, yeah, actually it is. And it's pretty easy, man. So our path, we just kind of recapped yours versus mine. I grew up, and I was just working fast food, kind of, and went to culinary school. I was able to do that. And honestly, I probably went to culinary school sooner than I should have because I didn't have any real, as I put it, real restaurant experience, other than just knowing that there was something about it that was like, Hell, yeah. And then just kind of bounced around the country until we kind of finally met. But it's a very interesting where I was fortunate, where I didn't have anything kind of holding me back and was never really into any kind of relationship of any kind for very long because my relationship was with restaurants and cooking. And so honestly, when it came to the concept of dating or going out, it was just never a factor for me. I couldn't well, when am I going to go? I'm always working. Not working. I'm studying. And I had no desire to do anything other than work and study for decades.
Speaker B 00:32:02
It's definitely a different spin with a lot of people that get into this industry. They want to become chefs, and they have that opportunity to stage or travel or work multiple places and sometimes work for free just to get experience. And when you're a parent, you have to think about money first, and you have to think about their well being first. So your priorities are really out of whack. Everyone else's.
Speaker A 00:32:35
Absolutely.
Speaker B 00:32:36
The goal is nonetheless the same.
Speaker A 00:32:40
I remember when we had our first daughter, or only daughter, my first kid, it was a moment of like, oh, shit. Okay, got to take things a little bit more seriously, right? And it's like, okay, still bounced around a little bit. Not too bad. And then when we had our second kid, the moment I found out that we were going to have two, it was scarier than the first one because it was like, I really can't fuck up. No, I can't just on a whim say, hey, fuck you, and I'm going somewhere else, because I didn't like the way you looked at me today. It was like, no, it's time to take things a whole lot more seriously. Some of the frustrations and all that stuff just had to be like, well, I can suck it up, right? Work through it, but just also learn to communicate some of that stuff as well. Once you start adding kids to it, mouse to feed and the cost to just have not just to have them in your life, especially when you start talking like daycares, man, I don't think people really understand how much that costs, depending on what part of the country you're in. I mean, you're easily spending $10,000 a year per kid in daycare so you can work.
Speaker B 00:34:31
So that you can pay for daycare. It's a really good thing.
Speaker A 00:34:35
So, I mean, when you take how much someone makes let's call it a sue happens to be bringing in 45 to 50 maybe right after taxes and everything, and then take out daycare, and that's like maybe 25 grand a year of spending money that doesn't include mortgage or rent groceries. Children are amazing. They're an incredible blessing. They helped me. They changed me in a lot of good ways. And some of it was subconsciously, too. And I am incredibly grateful for them, even when they pissed me off. It changes your decision making process and your priorities to a degree.
Speaker B 00:35:51
Sure.
Speaker A 00:35:56
Kids. So with that, don't have kids until you're ready. Yeah, but sometimes you're gifted with them. And I know that you love those kids more than anything, too.
Speaker B 00:36:14
I do like my children.
Speaker A 00:36:18
On most days.
Speaker B 00:36:20
Most days. As a child, I always tell myself that I would never have kids, which is hilarious. I now have four.
Speaker A 00:36:34
Yes, that is funny. Well, that's for me, not kids, but as a student. I was a horrible student in so many ways. I didn't read a book like any book through school without all my tests and all that stuff, for all the reading they're supposed to be doing. It was based off, like, Cliff Notes and all that stuff. But I didn't read a book until I was out of high school. And now I've got a library and.
Speaker B 00:37:13
I read every day.
Speaker A 00:37:13
Now I'm not just talking culinary, but just everything. So it's funny how life changes.
Speaker B 00:37:22
I was always a big reader. What was that horrible at math, though? I'm still terrible at math, but I have to use it every fucking day. Conversions and such.
Speaker A 00:37:36
Oh, conversions.
