00:00:04
Speaker 1: I think if one great thing can come out of this for the US, it will be this sort of awareness around processed foods. And one thing, as someone who uses a GLP-1 myself, one thing that is kind of a surprising second order effect is that you do start to have an aversion to processed food. And I don't know that they really designed it that way because if you go back and listen to the podcast about how Novo Nord has found GLP-1s, they didn't realize that it would have this impact.
00:00:41
Speaker 2: Welcome to today's episode of Free of Commerce. I'm Sarah Hofstadter.
00:00:45
Speaker 3: And I'm Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that talks about what's relevant in commerce for the world's biggest brands. Sarah, it's so interesting to, I feel every professional and personal conversation that I've participated in in like the last six months, GLP-1s as well as menopause or perimenopause have come up. What is going on in society right now?
00:01:19
Speaker 2: Fascinating because you're in the demo for neither of those things.
00:01:23
Speaker 3: I don't know. I might be a premature. Okay.
00:01:28
Speaker 4: Certainly not the GLP-1.
00:01:30
Speaker 2: And you definitely would be like, That's like the equivalent of getting the AARP emails when you're 35. So like, whatever, I'm not a doctor. But the fact that those are two things that are becoming much more in the cultural conversation. On the one hand, the conversations around GLP-1 have been happening for a while, but people have not been vocally saying, yes, I am. Like people say, oh, you look great. And nobody says, oh yeah, I was a big baby. Like they say, thank you. Whereas, that's starting to change. People are starting to be more comfortable sharing that it's not a trick or it's not like you've left the country for a month and you've got some crazy ass surgery. Like it's becoming much more part of the norm, especially for people who have struggled in other ways to lose weight or they're dealing with other preexisting conditions. On the menopause front, I'm with you. I went from being living under a rock to being quite educated, on the topic and I'm, you know, a little bit older and the fact that it has become so much more pervasive in conversation, not just among women, not just among women of a certain age, but just in general, I think is a massive representation of the fact that women, especially in the perimenopausal and menopausal age have deep pockets and Now we're talking about catering to people who are either on GLP-1s or people who are going through perimenopausal symptoms, which, by the way, means a hell of a lot more than hot flashes. There's been so much conversation that we've had here on this podcast about GLP-1s and how it's impacting food companies. In many cases, for the negative, you consume fewer calories, therefore you will buy less food. But there's also been the reverse of it. the fashion business is booming.
00:03:23
Speaker 3: Oh, it's travel. Travel.
00:03:25
Speaker 2: Beach travel is up and food travel is down. It's just, it's fascinating how these macro changes and cultural norm acceptance of it has changed all of the ways that businesses choose to react or not react. It's not like this was like COVID where it just like hit, you know, overnight.
00:03:44
Speaker 4: These have been slow burns.
00:03:46
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:03:47
Speaker 3: I think the question is how fast can companies react? because it absolutely has accelerated. I think now one out of five people is on a GLP-1, and that's supposed to get to a third, some reports that I've read. And then the question is, will it hold? Like, will people sustain the use of a GLP-1? And so I think a lot of companies, both on the manufacturer and the retailer side, are trying to navigate this. And who better to speak to than someone who has deep retail experience both as an operator and as a board member.
00:04:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mila really opened my eyes to a lot of these kinds of things, which is why I'm so happy that she agreed to be on the show. She was recently running CDS. She's now on the board of Ahold. And if you look at the Cagney presentations from this past year, there's no question that protein is a hot, hot topic, which addresses a lot of the conversations around satiety and and hitting people that are on GLP-1s with the kinds of nutritional balance that they need. And so I think overall, it can't be a bad thing for our industry to be being more mindful about the ingredients and the composition that goes into it. And I'm really glad that Nila continues to have an outsized impact on our industry for both raising awareness and making sure that we're here adapting to that.
00:05:03
Speaker 3: So let's bring her on to the show.
00:05:07
Speaker 2: Today, we have quite the commerce executive expert with us today, Nila Montgomery. She is currently on the board of directors of Ahold Delhaize and Logitech, but formerly also the CEO of Crate and Barrel at the helm of CBS and many other companies and somebody that over the years I have grown to consider a dear friend and confidant. And she and I were having coffee a couple of months ago, and I just wish people would be able to overhear our conversation because it would have made a great podcast episode in and of itself. So this is my attempt to to recreate the best and the brightest and bring in the wonderful voice of Rachel Typograph as well. So Neela, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:05:48
Speaker 4: Thank you. How can I live up to that intro? It's amazing. Thank you, Sarah.
00:05:53
Speaker 2: It was funny. We actually had coffee and I don't think I ever ended up ordering the coffee. So I was totally bumming space off a retailer, which is just not cool. But anyway, putting that aside, the thing that we talked about that got me, there were a few things we talked about that were super intense. But one of the things that we ended up talking about was that intersection of health, food, and retail. Obviously, these are topics that are very close to our hearts. And one of those things that sits at the intersection of it that people obviously are nonstop talking about, certainly in the States, is GLP-1 adoption. It is growing faster than the public conversation around it. And so why do you think the usage is outpacing that cultural openness? And what do you think is going to take for its change? Because people talk about it. but they don't talk about themselves as users of it. It's not like people don't know what's out there, but the lack of willingness to talk about their personal experiences using it, there's something surprising about that. Talk about it more.
00:06:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
00:06:56
Speaker 1: And I think just to sort of contextualize, one in five American households has someone using a GLP-1. And obviously now there are people using GLP-3s and other things, but the reality is 46% of those started in the last two months or six months, I think. So it's a high adoption, high velocity category. But the reality is there's still some sort of stigma around it, I believe, in that initially there was a lot of press around this was a Hollywood drug.
00:07:28
Speaker 4: This was Kim Kardashian trying to get into her Met dress.
00:07:33
Speaker 1: And that sort of overhang is still around in that, oh, this must be vain people who don't need to lose weight using GLP-1s versus this is a really important tool for managing a whole host of conditions, including obesity, which is the number one killer in the US, by the way, but also a very important tool for women in terms of inflammation.
00:08:00
Speaker 4: We now know there's lots of cardio benefits, etc.
00:08:03
Speaker 1: But I do think some of that kind of cultural conversation has shaped the debate.
00:08:10
Speaker 3: And so with this adoption, you're at the helm of conversations, I'm sure, in the boardroom at Ahold about what's happening with consumers. What do you think are the most misunderstood things right now about consumer behaviors, given the backdrop of GLP-1?
00:08:29
Speaker 1: There's understanding that it changes your eating habits. And I think for retailers like Arhold, which trades under banners like Stop and Shop, Hannaford's, et cetera, we understand that. People are looking for more nutrition and more density, we call it nutrition density, in the food that they eat because they're going to eat less food throughout the day. So I think brands are starting to respond to that. There was already this sort of protein craze going on on the shelves.
00:08:59
Speaker 4: Now there's the fiber craze.
00:09:01
Speaker 1: It will move on and we will have more and more sort of fortification of foods. But I think the more important question for retailers that sell fresh food like ourselves is how do we get food nutrition back at the center of the conversation? Because the reality is, healthy eating habits are such a determinant of health anyway. And this is a great opportunity to reset your habits, to rethink how you go about meeting your daily nutritional needs.
00:09:34
Speaker 3: And like tackling something like that, it's pretty massive. Like we think about just the US and the food pyramid going all the way back to World War II.
00:09:42
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:09:44
Speaker 3: Is that something that you do on your own as an independent retailer? Or are you calling on other retailers to do this together?
00:09:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of discussion right now about healthy eating in certain markets.
00:09:59
Speaker 4: I would say the U.S. is maybe slightly different. I mean, I'm from the UK.
00:10:03
Speaker 1: Originally, I grew up in a retailer called Tesco. They've been sort of distributing fresh fruit. I think almost all grocers do that there for kids and others. And there is just this real focus on five-a-day nutritional labeling and And I do think some of that is coming and going to be more at the forefront in the US. But to your point, are we working together? Yes, starting to, but probably not with the momentum that we need to get a shift like this over time.
00:10:36
Speaker 2: One of the things that's been really fascinating to me is how slow companies have been reacting to the way consumers are changing their behaviours. related to, and particularly related to GLP-1s. There were a few companies in the food space in particular that came out with differently sized frozen meals. There were a couple of attempts, and those just flopped extraordinarily. And then you started hearing other stories from fashion companies saying, this has been great because people are dropping weight. And so they're buying jeans in three different sizes for when they get into these different sizes. And so the impact on the economy has been very interesting. But when it comes to food manufacturers, it does seem to be a little slower. Why do you think that is? These are companies that have been so quick to respond to other trends in the past. Why do you think it's going slower or that they're treating it almost as niche? Is it because of a lack of people willing to say that they're doing it, even though the data says they are doing it? Like, what's the story here? What's like the real deal?
00:11:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I can only hypothesize on that one, but I think that there's two things.
00:11:53
Speaker 4: One is, I mean, innovation.
00:11:54
Speaker 1: Cycles are slower in some of these industries. And I do think that initially, adherence was pretty poor. So people would go on a GLP-1 and 25% stopped within days. three months and 66% stopped within six months. So people are cycling on and off these drugs. So I think it was like, is this a trend that's going to stick and really fundamentally change how people eat?
00:12:24
Speaker 4: So there was a little bit of, I think, the wait and see.
00:12:27
Speaker 1: And the price, I mean, you know, the majority of these drugs are being paid for out of pocket. And That is significant. I mean, you know, the sticker price is still $ 999. It's now $ 449, but the reality is it just felt like, okay, this is going to stay a niche thing just because it's a luxury item at that price point. I think what has surprised people and especially now with like compounding options, the pill format, all of these other things.
00:12:57
Speaker 4: How quickly it's become mainstream.
00:13:01
Speaker 1: And therefore I think that slightly caught people flat footed around, oh, actually we do need to think about this. And to your other point, those other industries that we didn't expect like fashion, beauty, I mean, there's huge focus now on cheek fillers and like filling up back your face and all of those products that nobody expected to have huge uplifts. I think we're seeing the secondary and people are like, oh, okay, we really need to take this seriously up front in product development.
00:13:34
Speaker 3: The travel industry reported that beach vacations have gone way up because of GLP-1 and cities that were these hubs to attract you for eating have gone way down.
00:13:43
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:13:44
Speaker 3: So it is amazing to see the rippling effect. We obviously live in the US, Sarah and I, though we work globally. And are you seeing this hold region to region? Where's the greatest sort of consumer adoption of GLP-1 right now?
00:14:01
Speaker 1: That's undoubtedly the US, but the US obviously has higher rates of obesity anyway, so you would expect that. I do think like I can speak well to sort of Holland or the Netherlands because that's where Arvold's very strong.
00:14:15
Speaker 4: I mean, there has always.
00:14:16
Speaker 1: Been a big focus on healthy eating there, but also on less processed foods. I think if one great thing can come out of this for the US, it will be this sort of awareness around processed foods. And one thing as someone who uses a GLP-1 myself, one thing that is kind of a surprising second order effect is that you do start to have an aversion to processed food. And I don't know that they really designed it that way because if you go back and listen to the podcast about how Novo Nordisk found GLP-1s, they didn't realize that it would have this impact because it's a hormone. And so I think that's been super interesting. And so I do think that will fundamentally maybe change how Americans think about mac and cheese and other products that they are used to coming out of a box. Yeah.
00:15:13
Speaker 3: So here you are, and you're sitting in your board position. If you were putting on your day-to-day operator hat, which a lot of people who listen to our show are working at these big CPG companies that have been in the business of producing processed foods, what would you do right now if you were them?
00:15:32
Speaker 1: I would really start thinking about formulation. I would think about communication of benefit and nutritional values for And I would really think about, am I on trend? Because I think obviously one thing that's great about GLP-1s is it doesn't kill people's interest in food. It just means they consume less. So they're more discerning about what they do consume. And I think for women in particular, there's now a very clear link between hormonal health and GLP-1s. So women who are going through HRT or other types of treatment, really benefit from the inflammation benefits of GLP-1.
00:16:14
Speaker 4: So I think thinking about.
00:16:16
Speaker 1: Inflammation in the broader sense, chronic conditions, and then how does my product play to that?
00:16:24
Speaker 4: Does it improve it?
00:16:26
Speaker 1: If not, how do I speak to indulgence and those moments of joy? That's all fine. I mean, people are still going to eat ice cream at the end of the day. It's just a I think you're just going to have to think very carefully about messaging.
00:16:40
Speaker 2: I love that you pivoted the conversation to exactly where I was hoping to go, which is this whole idea of other health-related trends. We talked about health, food, and retail. We talked a lot about GLP-1s, and I was going to ask about women's health. And you talked about things like HRT, hormone replacement therapy, things like that. So what are trends that you're starting to see, especially outside the U.S. through Ahold, which is obviously multinational in nature, that maybe some American companies can start saying, you know what, I think we need to start preparing for this. Because I don't know if it's because I'm of a certain age, but there's obviously much more conversation in my neck of the woods around menopause and perimenopause and things like that. as those conversations tick up, you've certainly seen a very different perspective on the other side of the pond. What should the smartest leaders in commerce be paying attention to so they're not caught as flat-footed as they were on GLP-1?
00:17:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the moment for me where I realized this was changing and menopause was coming above ground was in 2019.
00:17:53
Speaker 4: So pre-COVID, I was.
00:17:56
Speaker 1: In Heathrow arriving at Terminal 5. And there's usually two massive, massive billboards. And, you know, typically they have like Burberry or some other brand on them. And that week they had menopause care on both of those huge billboards.
00:18:12
Speaker 4: And I was thinking, that's interesting.
00:18:15
Speaker 2: And you know, that's not a personalized ad.
00:18:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sure. But, you know, seven years ago, There was this real.
00:18:23
Speaker 1: Conversation about menopause awareness week. What are companies doing around menopause care?
00:18:29
Speaker 4: What are their policies?
00:18:30
Speaker 1: You know, so many women get misdiagnosed during this period as having depression and anxiety. And it's so hard to sort of differentiate what is just life and midlife and all the pressures that that involves. And what is actually a lack of estrogen and perimenopause symptoms? And I think the US is starting to move in that direction. I do think companies like Midi Health are doing a good job of raising awareness, but we really need to have a more mainstream conversation. I mean, if you work at one of these large companies, what is their policy?
00:19:06
Speaker 4: Do they have one? Do they cover these treatments?
00:19:10
Speaker 1: And I think these are important questions that female entrepreneurs associates, but particularly female leaders need to be asking about their own workplaces.
00:19:19
Speaker 2: This is part of the conversation that we were having in the coffee shop when you told me about the escalator and the big menopause sign. And then after that, I couldn't unhear it. I was at an event the following week, the Matrix Awards, where some of our former guests like Diana Hausling were being honored. And two of the honorees spoken their acceptance speeches about menopause and menopause awareness and all of this stuff and the symptoms beyond health flashes that people need to be aware of and how to deal with them. One of them did speak specifically around the intersection of GLP-1 and the health benefits associated with that that helps women with the women's health stuff. The correlations are crazy. And what the extra layer you put on top of it is these people that are affected by this are primary household shoppers. So as the former head of CBS, do you feel like there's like this major retail brand opportunity out there that people should just be like, you guys, if you're going to be on top of anything, is this the most hidden, obvious thing out there? And yes, this is a leading question.
00:20:27
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
00:20:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that's what's so interesting because menopause used to be associated with female aging, right? And most women don't want to be spoken to as if they are aging. So it's like, how do you turn it around to a positive and reclaiming a period of your life and your own health and your mastery.
00:20:50
Speaker 4: Of the universe?
00:20:51
Speaker 1: And so, I do think retailers need to address it, but they need to do it in a smart way and think about how they are empowering those messages and creating the right products and even just sort of helping people on that journey. Because the fact about menopause is it's a long journey. It's a multi-year journey. And your needs are quite different along the way. So With all the AI personalization that we have these days, I don't think there are many companies who can actually speak to you about what your health needs, your sleep needs, your nutrition needs are at the different stages of that journey. And I think whoever manages to do that has a great opportunity ahead of them.
00:21:42
Speaker 3: I can hear right now the rush of entrepreneurs off to solve that problem. No, but it is interesting. It's hard being in New York to not have your New York blinders, but Sarah and I were just at the Cannes Lion Festival and a male customer of mine who's at a big Fortune 500 company was talking to me about his wife going through menopause. So there is something happening right now in the cultural zeitgeist because that type of conversation I don't think would have happened a decade ago. So, you know, we are so curious, obviously, on where this all ends up. We're paying attention to the trends. I mean, it's clearly impacting so many consumer industries. I think the barrier to entry that you identified is the price. And, you know, will something like this come down in price for consumers? But we have to ask you our famous last question, which is, what is the bravest thing you've ever done?
00:22:37
Speaker 1: I know you're looking for me to say going on GLP-1, but I don't consider that.
00:22:43
Speaker 4: To be that brave.
00:22:44
Speaker 1: So I'm going to say the bravest thing I have ever done is I did the Trans-Siberian Railway by myself when I was 21. I was a great believer in overland journeys. So the That was one of them. And my other one was Cairo to Cape Town, which took me three months. And now I look back and think that was a pretty crazy thing to have done. But I definitely think it categorizes as brave.
00:23:08
Speaker 3: Well, I'm wondering if there's anything left on this bucket list.
00:23:12
Speaker 4: Oh, many, many things. I'm a great filler of buckets.
00:23:17
Speaker 3: Well, sounds unbelievable. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. I'm sure we'll look back at this episode a year from now and be able to see the impact of GLP-1 on the consumer industry.
00:23:28
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
00:23:31
Speaker 3: If you like what you heard and you want to think about how food manufacturers are reinventing themselves, go check out a recent episode we did with Risa at Campbell's. And don't forget to write a review. Thanks for listening.
00:24:03
Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and.
00:24:07
Speaker 1: The host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice, meet everyone once.
00:24:17
Speaker 4: As a result, I've met some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet.
00:24:21
Speaker 1: Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future.
00:24:29
Speaker 2: That will challenge your way of thinking.
00:24:31
Speaker 4: Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:24:34
Speaker 2: New episodes come out every Tuesday.
00:24:36
Speaker 4: I do hope to see you there.
Speaker 1: I think if one great thing can come out of this for the US, it will be this sort of awareness around processed foods. And one thing, as someone who uses a GLP-1 myself, one thing that is kind of a surprising second order effect is that you do start to have an aversion to processed food. And I don't know that they really designed it that way because if you go back and listen to the podcast about how Novo Nord has found GLP-1s, they didn't realize that it would have this impact.
00:00:41
Speaker 2: Welcome to today's episode of Free of Commerce. I'm Sarah Hofstadter.
00:00:45
Speaker 3: And I'm Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that talks about what's relevant in commerce for the world's biggest brands. Sarah, it's so interesting to, I feel every professional and personal conversation that I've participated in in like the last six months, GLP-1s as well as menopause or perimenopause have come up. What is going on in society right now?
00:01:19
Speaker 2: Fascinating because you're in the demo for neither of those things.
00:01:23
Speaker 3: I don't know. I might be a premature. Okay.
00:01:28
Speaker 4: Certainly not the GLP-1.
00:01:30
Speaker 2: And you definitely would be like, That's like the equivalent of getting the AARP emails when you're 35. So like, whatever, I'm not a doctor. But the fact that those are two things that are becoming much more in the cultural conversation. On the one hand, the conversations around GLP-1 have been happening for a while, but people have not been vocally saying, yes, I am. Like people say, oh, you look great. And nobody says, oh yeah, I was a big baby. Like they say, thank you. Whereas, that's starting to change. People are starting to be more comfortable sharing that it's not a trick or it's not like you've left the country for a month and you've got some crazy ass surgery. Like it's becoming much more part of the norm, especially for people who have struggled in other ways to lose weight or they're dealing with other preexisting conditions. On the menopause front, I'm with you. I went from being living under a rock to being quite educated, on the topic and I'm, you know, a little bit older and the fact that it has become so much more pervasive in conversation, not just among women, not just among women of a certain age, but just in general, I think is a massive representation of the fact that women, especially in the perimenopausal and menopausal age have deep pockets and Now we're talking about catering to people who are either on GLP-1s or people who are going through perimenopausal symptoms, which, by the way, means a hell of a lot more than hot flashes. There's been so much conversation that we've had here on this podcast about GLP-1s and how it's impacting food companies. In many cases, for the negative, you consume fewer calories, therefore you will buy less food. But there's also been the reverse of it. the fashion business is booming.
00:03:23
Speaker 3: Oh, it's travel. Travel.
00:03:25
Speaker 2: Beach travel is up and food travel is down. It's just, it's fascinating how these macro changes and cultural norm acceptance of it has changed all of the ways that businesses choose to react or not react. It's not like this was like COVID where it just like hit, you know, overnight.
00:03:44
Speaker 4: These have been slow burns.
00:03:46
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:03:47
Speaker 3: I think the question is how fast can companies react? because it absolutely has accelerated. I think now one out of five people is on a GLP-1, and that's supposed to get to a third, some reports that I've read. And then the question is, will it hold? Like, will people sustain the use of a GLP-1? And so I think a lot of companies, both on the manufacturer and the retailer side, are trying to navigate this. And who better to speak to than someone who has deep retail experience both as an operator and as a board member.
00:04:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mila really opened my eyes to a lot of these kinds of things, which is why I'm so happy that she agreed to be on the show. She was recently running CDS. She's now on the board of Ahold. And if you look at the Cagney presentations from this past year, there's no question that protein is a hot, hot topic, which addresses a lot of the conversations around satiety and and hitting people that are on GLP-1s with the kinds of nutritional balance that they need. And so I think overall, it can't be a bad thing for our industry to be being more mindful about the ingredients and the composition that goes into it. And I'm really glad that Nila continues to have an outsized impact on our industry for both raising awareness and making sure that we're here adapting to that.
00:05:03
Speaker 3: So let's bring her on to the show.
00:05:07
Speaker 2: Today, we have quite the commerce executive expert with us today, Nila Montgomery. She is currently on the board of directors of Ahold Delhaize and Logitech, but formerly also the CEO of Crate and Barrel at the helm of CBS and many other companies and somebody that over the years I have grown to consider a dear friend and confidant. And she and I were having coffee a couple of months ago, and I just wish people would be able to overhear our conversation because it would have made a great podcast episode in and of itself. So this is my attempt to to recreate the best and the brightest and bring in the wonderful voice of Rachel Typograph as well. So Neela, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:05:48
Speaker 4: Thank you. How can I live up to that intro? It's amazing. Thank you, Sarah.
00:05:53
Speaker 2: It was funny. We actually had coffee and I don't think I ever ended up ordering the coffee. So I was totally bumming space off a retailer, which is just not cool. But anyway, putting that aside, the thing that we talked about that got me, there were a few things we talked about that were super intense. But one of the things that we ended up talking about was that intersection of health, food, and retail. Obviously, these are topics that are very close to our hearts. And one of those things that sits at the intersection of it that people obviously are nonstop talking about, certainly in the States, is GLP-1 adoption. It is growing faster than the public conversation around it. And so why do you think the usage is outpacing that cultural openness? And what do you think is going to take for its change? Because people talk about it. but they don't talk about themselves as users of it. It's not like people don't know what's out there, but the lack of willingness to talk about their personal experiences using it, there's something surprising about that. Talk about it more.
00:06:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
00:06:56
Speaker 1: And I think just to sort of contextualize, one in five American households has someone using a GLP-1. And obviously now there are people using GLP-3s and other things, but the reality is 46% of those started in the last two months or six months, I think. So it's a high adoption, high velocity category. But the reality is there's still some sort of stigma around it, I believe, in that initially there was a lot of press around this was a Hollywood drug.
00:07:28
Speaker 4: This was Kim Kardashian trying to get into her Met dress.
00:07:33
Speaker 1: And that sort of overhang is still around in that, oh, this must be vain people who don't need to lose weight using GLP-1s versus this is a really important tool for managing a whole host of conditions, including obesity, which is the number one killer in the US, by the way, but also a very important tool for women in terms of inflammation.
00:08:00
Speaker 4: We now know there's lots of cardio benefits, etc.
00:08:03
Speaker 1: But I do think some of that kind of cultural conversation has shaped the debate.
00:08:10
Speaker 3: And so with this adoption, you're at the helm of conversations, I'm sure, in the boardroom at Ahold about what's happening with consumers. What do you think are the most misunderstood things right now about consumer behaviors, given the backdrop of GLP-1?
00:08:29
Speaker 1: There's understanding that it changes your eating habits. And I think for retailers like Arhold, which trades under banners like Stop and Shop, Hannaford's, et cetera, we understand that. People are looking for more nutrition and more density, we call it nutrition density, in the food that they eat because they're going to eat less food throughout the day. So I think brands are starting to respond to that. There was already this sort of protein craze going on on the shelves.
00:08:59
Speaker 4: Now there's the fiber craze.
00:09:01
Speaker 1: It will move on and we will have more and more sort of fortification of foods. But I think the more important question for retailers that sell fresh food like ourselves is how do we get food nutrition back at the center of the conversation? Because the reality is, healthy eating habits are such a determinant of health anyway. And this is a great opportunity to reset your habits, to rethink how you go about meeting your daily nutritional needs.
00:09:34
Speaker 3: And like tackling something like that, it's pretty massive. Like we think about just the US and the food pyramid going all the way back to World War II.
00:09:42
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:09:44
Speaker 3: Is that something that you do on your own as an independent retailer? Or are you calling on other retailers to do this together?
00:09:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of discussion right now about healthy eating in certain markets.
00:09:59
Speaker 4: I would say the U.S. is maybe slightly different. I mean, I'm from the UK.
00:10:03
Speaker 1: Originally, I grew up in a retailer called Tesco. They've been sort of distributing fresh fruit. I think almost all grocers do that there for kids and others. And there is just this real focus on five-a-day nutritional labeling and And I do think some of that is coming and going to be more at the forefront in the US. But to your point, are we working together? Yes, starting to, but probably not with the momentum that we need to get a shift like this over time.
00:10:36
Speaker 2: One of the things that's been really fascinating to me is how slow companies have been reacting to the way consumers are changing their behaviours. related to, and particularly related to GLP-1s. There were a few companies in the food space in particular that came out with differently sized frozen meals. There were a couple of attempts, and those just flopped extraordinarily. And then you started hearing other stories from fashion companies saying, this has been great because people are dropping weight. And so they're buying jeans in three different sizes for when they get into these different sizes. And so the impact on the economy has been very interesting. But when it comes to food manufacturers, it does seem to be a little slower. Why do you think that is? These are companies that have been so quick to respond to other trends in the past. Why do you think it's going slower or that they're treating it almost as niche? Is it because of a lack of people willing to say that they're doing it, even though the data says they are doing it? Like, what's the story here? What's like the real deal?
00:11:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I can only hypothesize on that one, but I think that there's two things.
00:11:53
Speaker 4: One is, I mean, innovation.
00:11:54
Speaker 1: Cycles are slower in some of these industries. And I do think that initially, adherence was pretty poor. So people would go on a GLP-1 and 25% stopped within days. three months and 66% stopped within six months. So people are cycling on and off these drugs. So I think it was like, is this a trend that's going to stick and really fundamentally change how people eat?
00:12:24
Speaker 4: So there was a little bit of, I think, the wait and see.
00:12:27
Speaker 1: And the price, I mean, you know, the majority of these drugs are being paid for out of pocket. And That is significant. I mean, you know, the sticker price is still $ 999. It's now $ 449, but the reality is it just felt like, okay, this is going to stay a niche thing just because it's a luxury item at that price point. I think what has surprised people and especially now with like compounding options, the pill format, all of these other things.
00:12:57
Speaker 4: How quickly it's become mainstream.
00:13:01
Speaker 1: And therefore I think that slightly caught people flat footed around, oh, actually we do need to think about this. And to your other point, those other industries that we didn't expect like fashion, beauty, I mean, there's huge focus now on cheek fillers and like filling up back your face and all of those products that nobody expected to have huge uplifts. I think we're seeing the secondary and people are like, oh, okay, we really need to take this seriously up front in product development.
00:13:34
Speaker 3: The travel industry reported that beach vacations have gone way up because of GLP-1 and cities that were these hubs to attract you for eating have gone way down.
00:13:43
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:13:44
Speaker 3: So it is amazing to see the rippling effect. We obviously live in the US, Sarah and I, though we work globally. And are you seeing this hold region to region? Where's the greatest sort of consumer adoption of GLP-1 right now?
00:14:01
Speaker 1: That's undoubtedly the US, but the US obviously has higher rates of obesity anyway, so you would expect that. I do think like I can speak well to sort of Holland or the Netherlands because that's where Arvold's very strong.
00:14:15
Speaker 4: I mean, there has always.
00:14:16
Speaker 1: Been a big focus on healthy eating there, but also on less processed foods. I think if one great thing can come out of this for the US, it will be this sort of awareness around processed foods. And one thing as someone who uses a GLP-1 myself, one thing that is kind of a surprising second order effect is that you do start to have an aversion to processed food. And I don't know that they really designed it that way because if you go back and listen to the podcast about how Novo Nordisk found GLP-1s, they didn't realize that it would have this impact because it's a hormone. And so I think that's been super interesting. And so I do think that will fundamentally maybe change how Americans think about mac and cheese and other products that they are used to coming out of a box. Yeah.
00:15:13
Speaker 3: So here you are, and you're sitting in your board position. If you were putting on your day-to-day operator hat, which a lot of people who listen to our show are working at these big CPG companies that have been in the business of producing processed foods, what would you do right now if you were them?
00:15:32
Speaker 1: I would really start thinking about formulation. I would think about communication of benefit and nutritional values for And I would really think about, am I on trend? Because I think obviously one thing that's great about GLP-1s is it doesn't kill people's interest in food. It just means they consume less. So they're more discerning about what they do consume. And I think for women in particular, there's now a very clear link between hormonal health and GLP-1s. So women who are going through HRT or other types of treatment, really benefit from the inflammation benefits of GLP-1.
00:16:14
Speaker 4: So I think thinking about.
00:16:16
Speaker 1: Inflammation in the broader sense, chronic conditions, and then how does my product play to that?
00:16:24
Speaker 4: Does it improve it?
00:16:26
Speaker 1: If not, how do I speak to indulgence and those moments of joy? That's all fine. I mean, people are still going to eat ice cream at the end of the day. It's just a I think you're just going to have to think very carefully about messaging.
00:16:40
Speaker 2: I love that you pivoted the conversation to exactly where I was hoping to go, which is this whole idea of other health-related trends. We talked about health, food, and retail. We talked a lot about GLP-1s, and I was going to ask about women's health. And you talked about things like HRT, hormone replacement therapy, things like that. So what are trends that you're starting to see, especially outside the U.S. through Ahold, which is obviously multinational in nature, that maybe some American companies can start saying, you know what, I think we need to start preparing for this. Because I don't know if it's because I'm of a certain age, but there's obviously much more conversation in my neck of the woods around menopause and perimenopause and things like that. as those conversations tick up, you've certainly seen a very different perspective on the other side of the pond. What should the smartest leaders in commerce be paying attention to so they're not caught as flat-footed as they were on GLP-1?
00:17:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the moment for me where I realized this was changing and menopause was coming above ground was in 2019.
00:17:53
Speaker 4: So pre-COVID, I was.
00:17:56
Speaker 1: In Heathrow arriving at Terminal 5. And there's usually two massive, massive billboards. And, you know, typically they have like Burberry or some other brand on them. And that week they had menopause care on both of those huge billboards.
00:18:12
Speaker 4: And I was thinking, that's interesting.
00:18:15
Speaker 2: And you know, that's not a personalized ad.
00:18:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sure. But, you know, seven years ago, There was this real.
00:18:23
Speaker 1: Conversation about menopause awareness week. What are companies doing around menopause care?
00:18:29
Speaker 4: What are their policies?
00:18:30
Speaker 1: You know, so many women get misdiagnosed during this period as having depression and anxiety. And it's so hard to sort of differentiate what is just life and midlife and all the pressures that that involves. And what is actually a lack of estrogen and perimenopause symptoms? And I think the US is starting to move in that direction. I do think companies like Midi Health are doing a good job of raising awareness, but we really need to have a more mainstream conversation. I mean, if you work at one of these large companies, what is their policy?
00:19:06
Speaker 4: Do they have one? Do they cover these treatments?
00:19:10
Speaker 1: And I think these are important questions that female entrepreneurs associates, but particularly female leaders need to be asking about their own workplaces.
00:19:19
Speaker 2: This is part of the conversation that we were having in the coffee shop when you told me about the escalator and the big menopause sign. And then after that, I couldn't unhear it. I was at an event the following week, the Matrix Awards, where some of our former guests like Diana Hausling were being honored. And two of the honorees spoken their acceptance speeches about menopause and menopause awareness and all of this stuff and the symptoms beyond health flashes that people need to be aware of and how to deal with them. One of them did speak specifically around the intersection of GLP-1 and the health benefits associated with that that helps women with the women's health stuff. The correlations are crazy. And what the extra layer you put on top of it is these people that are affected by this are primary household shoppers. So as the former head of CBS, do you feel like there's like this major retail brand opportunity out there that people should just be like, you guys, if you're going to be on top of anything, is this the most hidden, obvious thing out there? And yes, this is a leading question.
00:20:27
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
00:20:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that's what's so interesting because menopause used to be associated with female aging, right? And most women don't want to be spoken to as if they are aging. So it's like, how do you turn it around to a positive and reclaiming a period of your life and your own health and your mastery.
00:20:50
Speaker 4: Of the universe?
00:20:51
Speaker 1: And so, I do think retailers need to address it, but they need to do it in a smart way and think about how they are empowering those messages and creating the right products and even just sort of helping people on that journey. Because the fact about menopause is it's a long journey. It's a multi-year journey. And your needs are quite different along the way. So With all the AI personalization that we have these days, I don't think there are many companies who can actually speak to you about what your health needs, your sleep needs, your nutrition needs are at the different stages of that journey. And I think whoever manages to do that has a great opportunity ahead of them.
00:21:42
Speaker 3: I can hear right now the rush of entrepreneurs off to solve that problem. No, but it is interesting. It's hard being in New York to not have your New York blinders, but Sarah and I were just at the Cannes Lion Festival and a male customer of mine who's at a big Fortune 500 company was talking to me about his wife going through menopause. So there is something happening right now in the cultural zeitgeist because that type of conversation I don't think would have happened a decade ago. So, you know, we are so curious, obviously, on where this all ends up. We're paying attention to the trends. I mean, it's clearly impacting so many consumer industries. I think the barrier to entry that you identified is the price. And, you know, will something like this come down in price for consumers? But we have to ask you our famous last question, which is, what is the bravest thing you've ever done?
00:22:37
Speaker 1: I know you're looking for me to say going on GLP-1, but I don't consider that.
00:22:43
Speaker 4: To be that brave.
00:22:44
Speaker 1: So I'm going to say the bravest thing I have ever done is I did the Trans-Siberian Railway by myself when I was 21. I was a great believer in overland journeys. So the That was one of them. And my other one was Cairo to Cape Town, which took me three months. And now I look back and think that was a pretty crazy thing to have done. But I definitely think it categorizes as brave.
00:23:08
Speaker 3: Well, I'm wondering if there's anything left on this bucket list.
00:23:12
Speaker 4: Oh, many, many things. I'm a great filler of buckets.
00:23:17
Speaker 3: Well, sounds unbelievable. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. I'm sure we'll look back at this episode a year from now and be able to see the impact of GLP-1 on the consumer industry.
00:23:28
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
00:23:31
Speaker 3: If you like what you heard and you want to think about how food manufacturers are reinventing themselves, go check out a recent episode we did with Risa at Campbell's. And don't forget to write a review. Thanks for listening.
00:24:03
Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and.
00:24:07
Speaker 1: The host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice, meet everyone once.
00:24:17
Speaker 4: As a result, I've met some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet.
00:24:21
Speaker 1: Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future.
00:24:29
Speaker 2: That will challenge your way of thinking.
00:24:31
Speaker 4: Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:24:34
Speaker 2: New episodes come out every Tuesday.
00:24:36
Speaker 4: I do hope to see you there.
