Bryan Gorman: Welcome to the Shift Change Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Gorman. I'm excited to bring a a a friend, friend of the pod, I guess you would say. I I've I've known Mark for a long time. Mark Young, he's our guest today, and super excited to to welcome him and thanks for the time today, Mark. Appreciate it.
In-Person: Welcome to the Shift Change Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Gorman. I'm excited to bring a a a friend friend of the pod, I guess you would say. I I've I've known Mark for a long time. Mark Young, he's our guest today and super excited to to welcome him and thanks for the time today, Mark. Appreciate it.
Mark Young: Thanks, Brian. Yeah. Yeah, great to great to talk with you.
In-Person: Yeah, maybe get to start us off, would love to maybe give you kinda share your story a little bit, how you got into to HR, you know, the franchise space a little bit, kinda who you are and and what you do.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, maybe get to start us off, would love to maybe can you kinda share your story a little bit, how you got into to HR, you know, the franchise space a little bit, kinda who you are and and what you do.
Mark Young: Yeah, that sounds great. So I had a a a I would say a semi lengthy career in accounting, finance, as well as legal and As part of that, when I became a CFO and general counsel, HR and compliance got into that role. and so I had to learn pretty quickly on the fly as we were doing MA across the country at PDI Corn Ferry. you know, obviously a big company and a lot of employees, a lot of stuff going on. And so as you had just the general operations of of HR which you know from payroll to HCM to benefits. as a lawyer I sort of had the compliance side and they start meshing together and we eventually I left PDI Corn Ferry and went to a couple of small businesses. I was really kind of keen with the MA world and so I was on some boards and went in as CFO or an interim CEO while we spruced up everything and got everything you know in line ready to sell the company. along the way as as an attorney and an a with the HR background, one of the things that I recognized as, you know, they were smaller companies and what I had at a larger company was, you know, sort of a a budget, if you would, that was, you know, Not unlimited, but certainly when it came to legal and compliance, I didn't have to worry so much about, you know, the costs and, you know, just just googling, you know, an employee handbook or whatever it had to be to sort of get you by in in the HR slash compliance world. so sort of my my fun project and in last Maybe it was the capstone part of my career the last 11 years was to launch a company called My HR Council that provided really another option from going with the hourly law firm or going with the HR call-in hotline. both had issues in terms of was it actual legal advice on the HR hotline? Or would you pick up the phone or go visit an attorney at seven hundred to a thousand dollars an hour when you needed an HR document or you had a sexual harassment issue or even you just had a needed a second opinion on what the you know, the current payroll numbers were or
Bryan Gorman: Mm.
Mark Young: you know minimum wage was in a certain state. so we took sort of a business model or an industry and changed the business model in a way that was more customer centric. And it's that piece of of I think what we're we would talk about today that I think is really relevant and I think is unique to a lot of small business owners is we're all sort of trapped in these current business models and it's very hard as a small business owner, an entrepreneur, a startup, a restaurant, you know, a franchise, to really have all of those different services, whether it's HR, accounting, bookkeeping, compliance, tax, without having to, you know, either go to a friend and ask where do you go for this person and then finding out it's gonna cost you twenty five thousand dollars for an employee handbook and you just don't do it. so
Bryan Gorman: Mm, mm.
Mark Young: I like the that idea of just finding a better solution, a better mousetrap. you know, we have so many tools with AI now and so much with you know the internet, you know, it just continues to change and go fast. And so, you know, it's just been really fun to kind of look at what are the problems that business owners, especially small and medium-sized businesses, are trying to accomplish and how can you do that in a business model that actually works for the customer? and a lot of business models are broken and so they're fun to fix.
In-Person: No, absolutely. And really you've
Bryan Gorman: No, absolutely. And really you've
In-Person: you build a distinguished career that you know kinda sits right at the at the crossroads of as you mentioned HR, finance law and and obviously we're talking this is a a restaurant focused podcast, but what do you think the biggest thing
Bryan Gorman: you build a distinguished career that, you know, kinda sits right at the at the crossroads of, as you mentioned, HR, finance, law, and and obviously we're talking this is a a restaurant focused podcast, but what do you think the biggest thing
In-Person: you know restaurant leaders are missing when it when it and and when those areas are aren't working together? You know, what do you what do you see like the biggest issues are when you're dealing with all all three of those topics. And and as you mentioned too, it's it's small, medium sized businesses that are oftentimes struggling with that. And you know too compliment
Bryan Gorman: You know, restaurant leaders are missing when it when it in and when those areas are aren't working together. You know, what do you what do you see like the biggest issues are when you're dealing with all all three of those topics? And as you mentioned too, it's it's small and medium sized businesses that are oftentimes struggling with that. And you know too, compliance
In-Person: compliance is continuously changing and laws are changing so fast. So you what's the biggest thing that they're they're they're often missing?
Bryan Gorman: is continuously changing and laws are changing so fast. So, you know, what's the biggest thing that they're they're they're often missing?
Mark Young: Yeah, the the hardest thing I think is to have the right tools. you know, this you know, or I'll say maybe operating systems that that mesh together what, you know, the talent, the finance, you know, eight HR on the talent side and the compliance and legal side. you know, there's a lot of systems out there, very e you know, very expensive. time consuming. They have maybe bells and whistles that you think you don't need, but you do. And you kind of it it's really hard to, you know, again, start up say a restaurant and know what are the things that I need to do, you know, the steps of financing to get a building and doing the construction and then All those negotiations legally, then hiring people. Well, how do you do that? What are the questions you can ask? Then you hire all these people. Well, what are the documents that I need to have? and then it comes to payroll. Well, okay, what system do I need? Where do I need to be registered? What states? How do I pay people? and then tax, you know, how do I pay my payroll taxes? What tax returns do I have to do? How do I you know, what state registrations do I have to have if I have salespeople or, you know, if I'm on a border and I have people living in two states. I mean, there are so it's so intertwined between the people, the, you know, again, the the building and the operations, the insurance that goes with, you know, people tripping and falling, the building, the workers' comp that goes into it. And then, you know, the finance side of really knowing if you're going to make improvements or if you're making money on the food that you're selling or the price that you're paying you know, certain vendors and what you need to mark up, then the drinks and everything else. Just getting that all together is is is a huge you know mind suck, if you would. It's so much mind share that goes into it that what people I think go into the restaurant business with and like the interaction with clients and the customer experience, being out on the floor to really see how are people doing, how's your talent, how you know, is are you are are you engaging with your employees? a lot of times all of these other noisy, intertwined HR, finance and legal things get in the way. You end up shutting your your door in your office. And you're not out there doing what you want to do, you know, maybe an hour of bartending
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: and again just going around and saying hi at the table. you know, there's nothing better than being at a restaurant and having the owner come out and recognize you, or, you know, having a special dinner and it had happens to be somebody that you know, again, the owner comes out and brings you a dessert or whatever. you just don't have the time to do what you thought you were getting into the restaurant business to do.
In-Person: very true. No. Yeah, hi yeah, hit the nail on the head up with that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. y see, so what what what are some of the HR or compliance issues you see really chipping up restaurant owners right now that may not that may not be on the radar yet, that may be cutting down the pipe. You mentioned AI a little bit earlier too, Mark. Like what do you what do you see coming that might not be where they should be looking right now?
Bryan Gorman: very true. No. Yeah, h yeah, hit the nail on the head with that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. y see, so what what what are some of the HR or compliance issues you see really chipping up restaurant owners right now that may not that may not be on the radar yet, that may be coming down the pipe. You mentioned AI a little bit earlier too, Mark. Like what do you what do you see coming that might not be where they should be looking right now?
Mark Young: Yeah. Yeah, from the legal side, I mean there's you know, it is it it's a daily change. It used to be an annual change and you knew come January one, you know,
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: that was the time that new laws would come out and you know, maybe in November, December you started reading the the restaurant association magazine and and get up to date and you only had to do that sort of once a year. And now things change in the state and the Fed and stuff all the time. And so keeping up with the compliance issues is, you know, I think step number one and in the difficulty. But on the specifics as it relates to legal issues that are coming on is there are a lot of things with all of the transgender issues and you know on the news that's you know a big issue right now the pronouns how you speak to employees and you know we're we're in another generation or two generations probably from where I'm at where the you know the the the longevity of your employees and the loyalty of your employees, coming in late, leaving, quitting on with no notice, that becomes a difficult, not only operational issue, but from a legal standpoint, how you handle that now has become, you know, it's just so easy for people that maybe didn't like what was happening. And they can go on Google, they can go on Chat GPT, they can type in exactly what happened. And the next thing you know, they realize they have, you know, a potential claim against you know, the restaurant
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: you know, that they work for. The one of the bigger issues for franchise restaurants is this joint employment issue. It's been bouncing around up and down. specifically what that is is The franchisor and the franchisee. If you're a franchise, there's certain rules to make sure that you're not directing decision making when it comes to things like employment and law and decisions. You can you can market and brand as a franchisor for the franchisees. That's a you know, a legal okay issue, but you can't be as a franchise or if a franchisee calls you and says, I have this issue with an employee, what do I do? They absolutely cannot answer that. If they do, when somebody sues the franchisee, they can pull the franchisor in. Well and of course they're the ones with the big pockets, the deeper pockets with insurance. And so what I've seen and I've actually with the franchise association gone to Washington and spent three days, you know, sort of going to all of the senators that would take our our meetings and that to really get them to understand how difficult that is for again restaurant owners, franchise e restaurant owners especially to get the kind of advice that they need. if they go to a law firm, it's, you know, four hours at $700 an hour on an issue that me as a lawyer have answered a hundred times.
Bryan Gorman: Mm.
Mark Young: And even if it's maybe different in a state, it takes me five minutes to figure that out. And because the performance in that law firm is based on Being in you know how many billable hours you had, that business model doesn't work well for the franchisee. What the franchisee needs is a quick answer. they need it legal, they want it protected by the attorney client privilege. And again, this joint employment thing is a very big issue for the franchise or, but then also the franchisee because you have more law firms looking to find employees. at the franchisee level that maybe get fired or aren't being treated well so that they can then you know go after the franchise or as well. so that's one that is coming up again. It's gonna it's going to be front and center after the midterms if there's a change in who controls the House and and andor the Senate, but the House especially. because they have passed that before and right now it's on hold because of who's running Congress. But it will come back literally by January twentieth of twenty twenty seven.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, lots to lots coming down the pike for sure. How do you see what do you see from an AI perspective, Mark? What's your take on obviously it's all over the news right now and you so what are your thoughts with
In-Person: Yeah, lots to lots coming down the pike for sure. How do you see what do you see from an AI perspective, Mark? What's your take on that? Obviously it's all over the news right now and so what are your thoughts with
Mark Young: Yeah.
In-Person: with restaurants? I know there a lot of I mean you pull up to a drive thru somewhere and you you most of more often than not you see it's more automated with, you know, the person asking, you know, do you want to use your mobile app and then then the next person
Bryan Gorman: with restaurants. I know there a lot of I mean you pull up to a drive thru somewhere and you y most o more often than not you see it's more automated with, you know, the person asking, you know, if do you want to use your mobile app and then then the next person is the one that's actually taking your order. So, you know, how I mean that's just one example of it. But how what do how do you see AI playing out and in the role within the restaurant space and and kinda just curious your take overall on on it?
In-Person: actually taking your order. So you know, how I mean that's just one example of it. But how what do you how do you see AI playing out and in the role within the restaurant space and and kinda just curious your take overall on on it?
Mark Young: Yeah. Yeah, so I mean just from a consumer, and then I'll relate it back to sort of finance, HR, and and Lego, but as from a consumer standpoint, you know, the the customer experience has changed, obviously. it's less personable. and I don't know necessarily. I understand the cost aspects of employees and the difficulty to get employees, especially at you know, convenient, quick, you know, service restaurants. so you know, bringing in you know, electronics and and anything, you know, that you can speak to and AI picks up that information and processes it quickly. is, you know, from a finance standpoint something that restaurants just have to do to to you know keep up with with their competitors. the problem is I I believe that you're not having as much of that interaction and I think there are people that you know because they struggle maybe with technology and you know once you get it it's whether it's a restaurant or a convenience store or grocery store, if something goes wrong in that order, you need to have somebody there and you have frustration. And from an HR perspective, you need to train people again on how to deal with, you know, you know, a consumer that maybe is unhappy. and has that patience. And do you have the time as a as an owner to you know invest in coaching and and performance management around what happens now when you have a difficult issue that maybe isn't because of the food, it's because of the ordering process. And that's you know, so it's it's been one thing maybe and you know I didn't like the experience because of how this employee was and now I don't like the experience because of how the ordering was.
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: And so you still have to have again good HR that understands coaching and giving feedback in a in a positive way. And especially again with a different generation that isn't used to feedback. It's everybody got a medal. And so, you know, I say that tongue in cheek, but you
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
Mark Young: know, honestly, in in managing people over, you know, now a thirty-five year period, that that has changed. And what you can and can't say from a legal perspective has changed, of course. And so that all of a sudden becomes how you do it and the way that you do it becomes something that I I think I'm seeing from clients asking us these questions, skipping over that part of training because we didn't have that training, you know, growing up. We went to McDonald's and You know, it was learn the process. And you know, now it the assistant general manager and general managers really have to be good coaches and understand
Bryan Gorman: Mm.
Mark Young: that that might not have been something that they learned, you know, early on, you know, in their teens. They maybe weren't mowing lawns for the neighbors and and those type of things, those those jobs where you were dealing with adults. And so when you have younger employees, that's that's a challenge. the AI thing too, on top of it is because it's so new, the number of potential legal issues, and not the hacking, you know, sort of thing that we're seeing for you know all over the news, but what can go wrong, you know, from a again, from an order, the mistake that maybe somebody punched something in. maybe the orders got mixed up and do people understand that technology well enough to fix it? And you know, do you need somebody that can almost you know code to be able to do those things? the again the the legal side of are is someone damaged from AI in that experience in in you know whether it's ordering or whether it's from an HR perspective whether it's again the advice that you got from AI that you then translate to you know a problem employee these are not again these are not legal tools these are these are written by lawyers but it doesn't protect you from it doesn't have the attorney client privilege and everything that goes with it. So again we have a faster tool. it's tremendously valuable from from that standpoint, but you also, you know, can't get rid of really good processes and really understanding HR compliance and the things that go with that, that AI doesn't replace that. It just doesn't. I haven't seen it yet.
Bryan Gorman: No, absolutely. you mentioned something too when you were talking there, Mark, about
In-Person: Absolutely. and you mentioned something too when you were talking there, Mark, about
Bryan Gorman: about the the manager in the restaurant. So kind of switching gears on you a little bit, but we we talked we talked a little well, we had some episodes prior to to to the to you coming on board as far as talking about the GM, the role of the GM, how important that that is to a restaurant. So, you know, they're they're usually promoted because they're great at operations, right? But not always trained in in leadership or people leadership. So
In-Person: about the the manager in the restaurant. So kind of switching gears on you a little bit, but we talked we talked a little well we had some episodes prior to to to the to you coming on board as far as talking about the GM, the role of the GM, how important that that is to a restaurant. So, you know, they're they're usually promoted because they're great at operations, right? But not always trained in in leadership or people leadership. So
Mark Young: Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: What do you think brands and owners can do or should be doing better to kind of prepare managers
In-Person: what do you think, you know, brands and and owners can do or should be doing better to kind of prepare managers Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: for that role?
Mark Young: Yeah, it's a it's a it's a really interesting challenge. we the company that I was at again PDI Corn Ferry, one of their divisions was these were PhD industrial organizational psychologists and it was a study of work and it was how do you do performance management, talent management, how do you How can you decide who gets promoted, where their strengths and weaknesses are, what you can do to train those, you know, weaknesses, and what can you do to train employees on how to not only do their job operationally, but do it with, you know, again, aligned with the strategy. So with a restaurant, you know, customer experience is huge, the brand is huge. And to understand how the cash register works and maybe how the you know the burger is supposed to be and everything else is one thing. and again, a lot of times the general managers and assistant general managers are people who have been at that restaurant for a while, were good at it, and they get promoted, so you keep to general manager, but they might not have had any people skills or people training. you know, supervisory training because what you know we have a ton of baby boomers, you know, 62 and older, who are now retiring. We have a gap in talent in terms of just number of people who went through the 20s and 30s where they learned supervisory, then manager, managing people instead of processes, and learned how to deal with their employees as well as with customers. And so we've had less people go through those, you know, what I'll call the leadership ladder where they went from individual contributor all the way up to a C suite person and they had, you know, very specific experiences that are different at every level. We've all, you know, you and I have gone through that where As an individual, we had a supervisor. We may have liked that person and may not liked it. And then we had learned from that person sort of how to be a supervisor. Then we were a supervisor and we learned how to deal with problem employees and good employees. And it wasn't as quick to make the jump where maybe you s you skipped a couple of levels, a couple of rungs in the ladder. And so I think one of the one of the biggest challenges is the operationally strong. Assistant general manager or general manager maybe hasn't had leadership training or you know supervisory training. and it's very difficult. You know, you can't put them in front of a screen, and yet that's how they're learning in high school and in college now. there's less and less of this one-on-one interaction, looking at somebody, you know, directly in the eye, giving them, you know, bad news. delivering a termination, you know, those type of things. They haven't had that experience. And so training on video versus training on the job and having that experience you know, tr through trial and error, is I I think is just not happening as much as it was maybe twenty-five years ago. And I think that's maybe one of the biggest challenges is how do you pr you know Keep your talent, promote them, but promote them in a role that they're going to be successful at as well, they're going to be good for your brand. And just putting somebody in a supervisory role, dealing with employees versus maybe you know continuing to run operations, if you don't have a big you know company where there is separate operations and maybe they're not dealing with as many employees. it's gonna be tough to keep that that talent and you're gonna put somebody in there that probably isn't going to be successful. They'll know it, you'll know it and that, you know, whenever there's not a fit, it's it's very difficult to kind of move them out.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, a and and I'm just curious what your your thoughts are on you know why w or maybe w maybe an example like of c of somebody doing it well, like the training piece. Like what have you what have you seen in know in in your background that if if you know, hey, this group's doing a really good job of training their people, maybe kind of share what they've done, maybe a best practice. Just curious what your thoughts are on that.
In-Person: Yeah, a it and I'm just curious what your your thoughts are on you know why or maybe w maybe an example like of of somebody doing it well, like the training piece. Like what have you what have you seen in you know in in your background that if if you know, hey this group's doing a really good job of training their people, maybe kinda share what they've done, maybe a best practice, just curious what your thoughts are on that.
Mark Young: Yeah. I think from a best practices standpoint, companies that I've seen and in companies that I know were were clients of ours at PDI Corn Ferry, the one of the probably the biggest impact in terms of training, if you would, was to put people in you know, rotations into different roles. If if your company's, you know, large enough, and in even if it's just you have five or six different roles, maybe you're a server in a restaurant, maybe you're a bartender, maybe you're a host, and maybe you're a supervisor. And if you can rotate people through, you know, whether it's a month at a time in those different roles, so that not only do you get the benefit of learning the operations fully. you get them experiencing what it what it it takes to be dealing with a customer customer, problem customer, a good customer, you know, the experience, et cetera. dealing with employees, you know, having somebody that can experience supervisory skills in that in that job, but not just throwing them in there, you know, and in having more of a rotation where they can you know, watch somebody do that that job, or again, talk with them about you know, one of the things, you know, do you want to be a supervisor? And if so, perhaps give you know, one of those psychological tests and see, you know, what type what type of attributes do they have that are gonna work well and where, you know, where are their blind spots? And and you know, giving them that feedback that here are some of the things you need to work on and then put them in those experiences because again, reading it in a book, watching it in a video is not gonna do it. If one of the things that they struggle with is again somebody that you know maybe you have somebody who assumes you know that if a person's you know taking a break or talking with another employee that maybe they're goofing around versus you know just again learning that maybe they're what they're doing is is problem solving and so go into it asking a question of, you know, hey, is there anything I can help you guys with rather than assume that, you know, they're goofing around. And just so that they know just how to deal with those situations so they're not getting themselves into trouble. you know, there's a lot of those things you we've learned doing it the hard way and just assuming that somebody's doing, you know, goofing around,
Bryan Gorman: Ha.
Mark Young: or, you know, they went outside, so they once they've gone outside to smoke. And maybe what they did is They forgot something in their car and it wasn't that. You accuse them of smoking and we weren't supposed to do that. you learn very quickly not to ask that question again. And you know, and again, if it if as a supervisor or as a manager you're having a problem with it, you know, training somebody, maybe coaching them on how to give you know, difficult feedback, you know, in in the there
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
In-Person: Yeah.
Mark Young: there's There's models on how to do that that work for every personality that people can do it in a comfortable way. That's very professional. And again, these are all tools that that systems have. I know the system that that you work with has that you know, in training materials and stuff like that. So that information is out there. You have to, again, as an owner or as a GM, you have to have some time to you know, sit and think and plan some of this talent management and HR to be able to understand this sort of the succession planning, if you would, to get to move
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: people into those supervisory roles all the way up to the general manager.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
In-Person: Okay. And again kinda switching this on you a little bit again. I I we talked about, you know, the obviously the employee experience and a little bit about labor costs and I know labor costs are are huge right now. It's a it's a big, I guess, pressure point in the industry. So I talked to a lot of owner operators out there, like well what are some ideas to keep costs under control and without making that employee experience worse, right? So you know, what are your thoughts on on what, you know, owner operators can do with I mean costs are still continuing to
Bryan Gorman: And again, kind of switching gears on you a little bit again. I know labor costs are are huge right now. It's a it's a big, I guess, pressure point in the industry. So I talked to a lot of owner operators out there, like well, what are some ideas to keep costs under control and without making that employee experience worse, right? So, you know, what are your thoughts on on what, you know, owner operators can do with how I I mean costs are still continuing to
Mark Young: Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: rise out there inflation, you know, rising and you know, what are your thoughts on that? How what are ways that you know from from a finance perspective, you know, how can how can they do that?
In-Person: rise up their inflation, you know, rising and you know, what are your thoughts on that? How what are ways that, you know, from from a finance perspective, you know, how can how can they do that?
Mark Young: Yeah. Well a s a couple of things that I learned early in my career. I went from accounting firm, law firm where you had very little. it was it was difficult for that positive employee experience. It was a grind. It was sixty hours a week, it was all about billable hours, you didn't necessarily, you know The good partners were the ones that brought in clients. They weren't necessarily the best people developers and everything else. we've gotten better at that in those industries and put people in those roles. There are professional HR, there's professional sales now in those industries, and that wasn't
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: back in in the in my day in the nineties. And so I saw it from the negative side on the positive side, again, going to to PDI Corn Ferry where their job was to teach talent management and one of the things was to not just give bad feedback or difficult feedback but the little things like somebody does something nice for you or does a good job leave them a little note Maybe a little gift card, you know, maybe let off 15 minutes early. I mean, there are so many little things that I still have those cards of the CEO writing me when I thought, you know, he didn't know my name. And we had a thing that was, you know, called a you know, I c I forget the name of it now, but it was a card that you would get and it was written s you know, handwritten by the CEO. and it would be, you know. in your office when you went back and you know or HR would bring it down to you. So there's you know there's little things like that. Also just you know even though it's a financial issue, you know, trying to have some type of you know community built in your restaurants especially. You know, how about a you know a a family get together? You know, we had a family get together at a park. Some people don't want to go to it. I get that. but a lot of people did. A lot of people were kind of proud of the company that they worked for. And if you're in a restaurant, you know, how about you know, after they close on a Sunday or whatever, you have a a dinner for the, you know, for the fam, you know, for your employees and their, you know, plus one or whatever. just so people can know each other, because you spend more of your time, you know, at work typically, you know, other than in COVID, than you do sleeping or at home. And, you know, to to sort of build that community gets people again, I think employees build better relationships. it's, you know, when you go home and you talk about your day at work, it's kind of fun to know who those people are. you know, we've sort of gotten rid of the holiday parties and those type of things. You know, again, for the amount of money you spend, those are those are really things that were important. I I remember those fondly where I know it you know, as a CFO how much it costs and I I still think it was well worth it. It it created an environment where people you felt totally different about an employee if you spent a little bit of time with them outside of working with them. You know, because again, you're under stress, you have people that you got to worry about, you got customers you gotta worry about. You know, you got you don't have a lot of time just to see how they're doing. And so that really, you know, again, some of these activities. have gone by the wayside and you know remote work has hurt that and I think again getting face to face, doing some handwritten notes, those type of things, maybe having some awards, you know, we gotta rid of the employee of the month and, you know, those type of things. You just don't see that as much. And people care about that. there's nothing better than a little crystal, you know, you hit your goal or whatever. I still have some of those from you know a job 15 years ago, you know.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah. No, absolutely. It helps with the culture, I mean overall, right? I think that's yeah. Yeah.
In-Person: Yeah. No absolutely. It helps with the culture, I mean, overall, right? I think that's yeah, yeah.
Mark Young: Yeah. Totally. Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, absolutely. well I think we're gonna there's some fun questions for you, Mark. Not that not that these were not these were fun questions, right? But these are a few that I love asking our guests that come on just to kinda get a little more insight into into you. But you know, so what's I guess if you're pulling up to a drive thru, right? What what's one song
In-Person: Absolutely. well I think we're gonna there's some fun questions for you, Mark. Not that not that these were not these two were fun questions, right? But these are a few that I love asking our guests to come on just to kinda get a little more insight into into you. But so what's I guess if you're pulling up to a drive thru, right? What what's one song
Mark Young: Yeah, yeah. Sure.
In-Person: that would be play what's what's your drive up song, I guess? Like you have the walk up song in major league baseball, you're right before they come up to bat. What's what's your what's your drive thru walk up song?
Bryan Gorman: that would be play what's what's your drive up song, I guess? Like you have the walk up song in major league baseball right before they come up to bat. What's what's your what's your drive thru walk up song or drive thru song?
Mark Young: Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny because coaching baseball, you know, that we played when the kids got older, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years old, they got to play at the University of Minnesota and they had they they actually had a walk up song. And that was maybe the coolest
Bryan Gorman: did they? Okay.
In-Person: did they? Okay.
Mark Young: thing of the whole deal for them is figuring out their walk up song. So for me, it would probably be one of two Billy Joel songs. It would either be Piano Man or the Bottle Red, Bottle White.
Bryan Gorman: Okay.
In-Person: Okay.
Mark Young: you know, that's on a about six of my playlists when I'm
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
Mark Young: when I'm walking or a Kenny Chesney song. I would be
Bryan Gorman: Okay.
In-Person: Okay.
Mark Young: doing something like that. So yeah. And I might be,
Bryan Gorman: Awesome. Very cool. Very cool.
In-Person: Very cool. Very cool.
Mark Young: you know, a little old for it. My kids are embarrassed by it, but I've I was I'd probably be, you know, bobbing my head a little bit and grooving a little bit and probably embarrassing them, especially if they're in the car. Absolutely.
Bryan Gorman: And you'd be on the drive through camera, right? They'd all be like
In-Person: And you'd be on the drive thru camera, right? They'd all be like So, you if you had ch to choose, are you more of a breakfast, lunch, or a late night, quick service restaurant kind of guy?
Bryan Gorman: so you know, if you had ch to choose, are you more of a breakfast, lunch, or a late night, quick service restaurant kind of guy?
Mark Young: Yeah, so probably a late night. I'm either so I worked at Shaky's Pizza. I don't know if you're familiar with Shakespeare but 15
Bryan Gorman: Okay. I've heard of shakies, yeah.
In-Person: Okay. I've heard of shakies, yeah.
Mark Young: and 16. if I had, you know, absolutely had to have I could have anything I wanted, it would be a pepperoni and sausage, shaky's pizza. What's ironic is shaky's is still around. There's one in Palm Springs. So last year when we were there for a tennis tournament, we had to go to Shaky's. I I couldn't believe it. You know,
In-Person: Ha ha
Mark Young: people are like, Shaky's, really? but if anyone's listening to this from Shaky's, come back to Minnesota because you'll have a customer and customer and me. And so I even I think
In-Person: Here you go.
Bryan Gorman: There you go.
Mark Young: I have a picture posted and LinkedIn with my dog and the shaky's sign on the back. the other would be Dairy Queen. I'd get a blizzard no matter what.
Bryan Gorman: Okay. Yeah. yeah.
In-Person: Okay. Yeah. yeah.
Mark Young: You know, if if if we're going to, you know, get an ice cream and the place is closed, there's nothing worse than that. You know, it's like, okay, well, we're going to the grocery store anyway, so we're gonna get some ice cream. Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: Yes. Yeah. That's awesome. So what are some
In-Person: Yes. Yeah. That's awesome. So what are some brands maybe you're on that are maybe I I guess newer in I think of my my daughter is a senior in college and she's always doing the seven brews or the the you know really big right now or the Drake's, you know, at at the Twisters or something like that or what are your thoughts on or maybe what's one brand that maybe a newer brand that you kinda got your eye on you you really like and what's something that you yeah
Bryan Gorman: brands maybe you're on that are maybe I I guess newer in there in I think of my my daughter as a senior in college and she's always doing the seven brews or the the you know really big right now or the drinks, you know, at at the Twisters or something like that or what are your thoughts on or maybe what's one brand that maybe a newer brand that you kinda got your eye on you you really like and what's something that you yeah
Mark Young: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Well, so I gotta I gotta say two. So one one is Ultra from Budweiser and it's
Bryan Gorman: Okay.
In-Person: Okay.
Mark Young: only it's only because my son works there. But in all seriousness,
In-Person: Okay.
Bryan Gorman: Okay.
Mark Young: it's it's a it I like the brand because it's it's different, right? It's a it's a little different than the business model. It used to be, you know, how much alcohol can we get in the beer, how much you know. how macho is it and and everything else. And they brought in you know, they project a brand of, you know, athletes and activeness and everything else with beer. And I just thought, this is great. You know, what a what an interesting way to, you know, brand yourself, you know, in a alcoholic drink. and and now, you know, the non-alcoholic drinks are what's keeping a lot of those big companies, you know, the beer companies and liquor alive. And it's amazing to me just how many people have switched to that or, you know, try those and and everything. So I'm fascinated by that because as you know, I'm fascinated by just changes to business models or changes to industries. You know, the other the brand that i am you know like and am pretty loyal to is pxg golf clubs
Bryan Gorman: Okay.
In-Person: Okay.
Mark Young: so parsons is you know the exping guy who brought out the first set of golf clubs that were you know had a a bigger bottom which was a lot easier to hit and made the game really fun for a lot of people especially got hot when tiger woods went pro in ninety seven and finally
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
In-Person: Yeah.
Mark Young: everybody else because of the golf clubs could hit the ball pretty pretty well. but I like the the PXG they're they're very they give I think half off to veterans. so they have you know focused on you know something that I you know, appreciate and and and really like. Folds of Honor and and Tunnels of Towers, you know, those are all,
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: you know, great non profits that I follow closely.
Bryan Gorman: Absolutely.
In-Person: Absolutely.
Mark Young: But to use that with golf I thought was a you know a stroke of genius and And they're good golf clubs. I like so I've I've
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
In-Person: But
Mark Young: followed that and I I don't know how new that that really is, but they're they're relatively new, you know, from from the standpoint versus, you know, title lists and and Nike and those type of things. Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: Awesome.
In-Person: Awesome,
Bryan Gorman: Awesome. so and what's one restaurant trend you wish more operators would either, you know, embrace or completely stop doing?
In-Person: awesome. so and what's one restaurant trend you wish more operators would either you know embrace or completely stop doing?
Mark Young: So it used to be, I just talked about this today, used to be when the coffee shops introduced food. And you would go to the rest you know, the coffee shop, and I wanted a cup of coffee, and they would have one microwave, and somebody in front of me would order eight breakfast sandwiches, and they would run the breakfast sandwiches for a minute in the you know, in the microwave, and I thought, And I understand from a finance standpoint how much money they make on and everything else. They've figured out how to do that. They take web orders now. There's more web orders than when you go there live. So that business model has adapted to the quickness. The one thing that I would like to see changed is it happened to me today, even it's stopping at a convenience store is are you a member of our inner circle? 'cause if you do,
In-Person: Yes.
Bryan Gorman: Yes.
Mark Young: if you have six if you this your sixth one is free if you're in part of that.
Bryan Gorman: Right.
In-Person: Right.
Mark Young: If they would have a QR code or a kiosk so that I didn't hold up 75 people who are behind me or even five people, I would sign up for every one of those. But the fact that it's you know a two and a half minute process and you have somebody at seven in the morning who's getting their coffee and they would just want to get out of there and they're paying their gas and whatever it is. So boy, with QR codes, it would make it so easy. People would do it because the the loyalty
Bryan Gorman: Ha.
Mark Young: programs and stuff, you know, getting a discount, they would all sign up, but making that an easy process, because I did sign up, I got one that was a QR code, and I signed up for it while I was sitting in my car, and I thought, why isn't everybody doing this?
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, I think you're on to something there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah. Absolutely. Well, hey, to wrap us up, Mark, how can someone reach you if they wanna connect with you and and learn more about what you and what you're doing?
In-Person: I think you're on to something there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah. Absolutely. Well hey, to wrap us up, Mark, how can someone reach you if they wanna connect with you and and learn more about what you and what you're doing?
Mark Young: Yeah. I trademarked that. No, no, I'm kidding. Yeah, I'd i and I'd love to help anybody out just to talk. you know, I just got connected with a good high school and college buddy of mine and I'm helping seniors at at a high school connect with business people to learn about industries so that they can you know decide on their career choices and and what to go to school for and it's just so rewarding. We all want to give back. We all wanna help. It's just it's a it's amazing how happy I was coming back from that day. so anyone can reach out to me. It's you know on LinkedIn, send me a connection, it's Mark H Young, and you'll see again J D B A. so if you're looking for different. Otherwise, anyone can send me an email at markhyoung93 at gmail.com and Again, I'd be happy to guide them in a way to find there's so many different things that people need, a connection to, you know, again, bookkeeping or you know, maybe they need a a you know a way to figure out a HR issue or they need a policy document or something like that. Happy to help them out and do that. And You know, if we can make a connection there or become partners in a way or whatever it is, fantastic. Love it.
Bryan Gorman: Awesome. Well you're the best, Mark. I I appreciate our friendship and and su such wisdom and just love our conversations and love to have you back again and appreciate your time.
In-Person: Well you're the best Mark. I I appreciate our friendship and and such wisdom and just love our conversations and love to have you back again and appreciate your time.
Mark Young: Thanks, Brian. Yeah, I really appreciate you asking me. And to everybody listening, don't give up on talent management. You know, just be patient. All right. Have a great day.
Bryan Gorman: Absolutely. Thanks, Mark. Talk to you soon.
In-Person: Absolutely. Thanks Mark. Talk to you soon.
In-Person: Welcome to the Shift Change Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Gorman. I'm excited to bring a a a friend friend of the pod, I guess you would say. I I've I've known Mark for a long time. Mark Young, he's our guest today and super excited to to welcome him and thanks for the time today, Mark. Appreciate it.
Mark Young: Thanks, Brian. Yeah. Yeah, great to great to talk with you.
In-Person: Yeah, maybe get to start us off, would love to maybe give you kinda share your story a little bit, how you got into to HR, you know, the franchise space a little bit, kinda who you are and and what you do.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, maybe get to start us off, would love to maybe can you kinda share your story a little bit, how you got into to HR, you know, the franchise space a little bit, kinda who you are and and what you do.
Mark Young: Yeah, that sounds great. So I had a a a I would say a semi lengthy career in accounting, finance, as well as legal and As part of that, when I became a CFO and general counsel, HR and compliance got into that role. and so I had to learn pretty quickly on the fly as we were doing MA across the country at PDI Corn Ferry. you know, obviously a big company and a lot of employees, a lot of stuff going on. And so as you had just the general operations of of HR which you know from payroll to HCM to benefits. as a lawyer I sort of had the compliance side and they start meshing together and we eventually I left PDI Corn Ferry and went to a couple of small businesses. I was really kind of keen with the MA world and so I was on some boards and went in as CFO or an interim CEO while we spruced up everything and got everything you know in line ready to sell the company. along the way as as an attorney and an a with the HR background, one of the things that I recognized as, you know, they were smaller companies and what I had at a larger company was, you know, sort of a a budget, if you would, that was, you know, Not unlimited, but certainly when it came to legal and compliance, I didn't have to worry so much about, you know, the costs and, you know, just just googling, you know, an employee handbook or whatever it had to be to sort of get you by in in the HR slash compliance world. so sort of my my fun project and in last Maybe it was the capstone part of my career the last 11 years was to launch a company called My HR Council that provided really another option from going with the hourly law firm or going with the HR call-in hotline. both had issues in terms of was it actual legal advice on the HR hotline? Or would you pick up the phone or go visit an attorney at seven hundred to a thousand dollars an hour when you needed an HR document or you had a sexual harassment issue or even you just had a needed a second opinion on what the you know, the current payroll numbers were or
Bryan Gorman: Mm.
Mark Young: you know minimum wage was in a certain state. so we took sort of a business model or an industry and changed the business model in a way that was more customer centric. And it's that piece of of I think what we're we would talk about today that I think is really relevant and I think is unique to a lot of small business owners is we're all sort of trapped in these current business models and it's very hard as a small business owner, an entrepreneur, a startup, a restaurant, you know, a franchise, to really have all of those different services, whether it's HR, accounting, bookkeeping, compliance, tax, without having to, you know, either go to a friend and ask where do you go for this person and then finding out it's gonna cost you twenty five thousand dollars for an employee handbook and you just don't do it. so
Bryan Gorman: Mm, mm.
Mark Young: I like the that idea of just finding a better solution, a better mousetrap. you know, we have so many tools with AI now and so much with you know the internet, you know, it just continues to change and go fast. And so, you know, it's just been really fun to kind of look at what are the problems that business owners, especially small and medium-sized businesses, are trying to accomplish and how can you do that in a business model that actually works for the customer? and a lot of business models are broken and so they're fun to fix.
In-Person: No, absolutely. And really you've
Bryan Gorman: No, absolutely. And really you've
In-Person: you build a distinguished career that you know kinda sits right at the at the crossroads of as you mentioned HR, finance law and and obviously we're talking this is a a restaurant focused podcast, but what do you think the biggest thing
Bryan Gorman: you build a distinguished career that, you know, kinda sits right at the at the crossroads of, as you mentioned, HR, finance, law, and and obviously we're talking this is a a restaurant focused podcast, but what do you think the biggest thing
In-Person: you know restaurant leaders are missing when it when it and and when those areas are aren't working together? You know, what do you what do you see like the biggest issues are when you're dealing with all all three of those topics. And and as you mentioned too, it's it's small, medium sized businesses that are oftentimes struggling with that. And you know too compliment
Bryan Gorman: You know, restaurant leaders are missing when it when it in and when those areas are aren't working together. You know, what do you what do you see like the biggest issues are when you're dealing with all all three of those topics? And as you mentioned too, it's it's small and medium sized businesses that are oftentimes struggling with that. And you know too, compliance
In-Person: compliance is continuously changing and laws are changing so fast. So you what's the biggest thing that they're they're they're often missing?
Bryan Gorman: is continuously changing and laws are changing so fast. So, you know, what's the biggest thing that they're they're they're often missing?
Mark Young: Yeah, the the hardest thing I think is to have the right tools. you know, this you know, or I'll say maybe operating systems that that mesh together what, you know, the talent, the finance, you know, eight HR on the talent side and the compliance and legal side. you know, there's a lot of systems out there, very e you know, very expensive. time consuming. They have maybe bells and whistles that you think you don't need, but you do. And you kind of it it's really hard to, you know, again, start up say a restaurant and know what are the things that I need to do, you know, the steps of financing to get a building and doing the construction and then All those negotiations legally, then hiring people. Well, how do you do that? What are the questions you can ask? Then you hire all these people. Well, what are the documents that I need to have? and then it comes to payroll. Well, okay, what system do I need? Where do I need to be registered? What states? How do I pay people? and then tax, you know, how do I pay my payroll taxes? What tax returns do I have to do? How do I you know, what state registrations do I have to have if I have salespeople or, you know, if I'm on a border and I have people living in two states. I mean, there are so it's so intertwined between the people, the, you know, again, the the building and the operations, the insurance that goes with, you know, people tripping and falling, the building, the workers' comp that goes into it. And then, you know, the finance side of really knowing if you're going to make improvements or if you're making money on the food that you're selling or the price that you're paying you know, certain vendors and what you need to mark up, then the drinks and everything else. Just getting that all together is is is a huge you know mind suck, if you would. It's so much mind share that goes into it that what people I think go into the restaurant business with and like the interaction with clients and the customer experience, being out on the floor to really see how are people doing, how's your talent, how you know, is are you are are you engaging with your employees? a lot of times all of these other noisy, intertwined HR, finance and legal things get in the way. You end up shutting your your door in your office. And you're not out there doing what you want to do, you know, maybe an hour of bartending
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: and again just going around and saying hi at the table. you know, there's nothing better than being at a restaurant and having the owner come out and recognize you, or, you know, having a special dinner and it had happens to be somebody that you know, again, the owner comes out and brings you a dessert or whatever. you just don't have the time to do what you thought you were getting into the restaurant business to do.
In-Person: very true. No. Yeah, hi yeah, hit the nail on the head up with that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. y see, so what what what are some of the HR or compliance issues you see really chipping up restaurant owners right now that may not that may not be on the radar yet, that may be cutting down the pipe. You mentioned AI a little bit earlier too, Mark. Like what do you what do you see coming that might not be where they should be looking right now?
Bryan Gorman: very true. No. Yeah, h yeah, hit the nail on the head with that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. y see, so what what what are some of the HR or compliance issues you see really chipping up restaurant owners right now that may not that may not be on the radar yet, that may be coming down the pipe. You mentioned AI a little bit earlier too, Mark. Like what do you what do you see coming that might not be where they should be looking right now?
Mark Young: Yeah. Yeah, from the legal side, I mean there's you know, it is it it's a daily change. It used to be an annual change and you knew come January one, you know,
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: that was the time that new laws would come out and you know, maybe in November, December you started reading the the restaurant association magazine and and get up to date and you only had to do that sort of once a year. And now things change in the state and the Fed and stuff all the time. And so keeping up with the compliance issues is, you know, I think step number one and in the difficulty. But on the specifics as it relates to legal issues that are coming on is there are a lot of things with all of the transgender issues and you know on the news that's you know a big issue right now the pronouns how you speak to employees and you know we're we're in another generation or two generations probably from where I'm at where the you know the the the longevity of your employees and the loyalty of your employees, coming in late, leaving, quitting on with no notice, that becomes a difficult, not only operational issue, but from a legal standpoint, how you handle that now has become, you know, it's just so easy for people that maybe didn't like what was happening. And they can go on Google, they can go on Chat GPT, they can type in exactly what happened. And the next thing you know, they realize they have, you know, a potential claim against you know, the restaurant
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: you know, that they work for. The one of the bigger issues for franchise restaurants is this joint employment issue. It's been bouncing around up and down. specifically what that is is The franchisor and the franchisee. If you're a franchise, there's certain rules to make sure that you're not directing decision making when it comes to things like employment and law and decisions. You can you can market and brand as a franchisor for the franchisees. That's a you know, a legal okay issue, but you can't be as a franchise or if a franchisee calls you and says, I have this issue with an employee, what do I do? They absolutely cannot answer that. If they do, when somebody sues the franchisee, they can pull the franchisor in. Well and of course they're the ones with the big pockets, the deeper pockets with insurance. And so what I've seen and I've actually with the franchise association gone to Washington and spent three days, you know, sort of going to all of the senators that would take our our meetings and that to really get them to understand how difficult that is for again restaurant owners, franchise e restaurant owners especially to get the kind of advice that they need. if they go to a law firm, it's, you know, four hours at $700 an hour on an issue that me as a lawyer have answered a hundred times.
Bryan Gorman: Mm.
Mark Young: And even if it's maybe different in a state, it takes me five minutes to figure that out. And because the performance in that law firm is based on Being in you know how many billable hours you had, that business model doesn't work well for the franchisee. What the franchisee needs is a quick answer. they need it legal, they want it protected by the attorney client privilege. And again, this joint employment thing is a very big issue for the franchise or, but then also the franchisee because you have more law firms looking to find employees. at the franchisee level that maybe get fired or aren't being treated well so that they can then you know go after the franchise or as well. so that's one that is coming up again. It's gonna it's going to be front and center after the midterms if there's a change in who controls the House and and andor the Senate, but the House especially. because they have passed that before and right now it's on hold because of who's running Congress. But it will come back literally by January twentieth of twenty twenty seven.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, lots to lots coming down the pike for sure. How do you see what do you see from an AI perspective, Mark? What's your take on obviously it's all over the news right now and you so what are your thoughts with
In-Person: Yeah, lots to lots coming down the pike for sure. How do you see what do you see from an AI perspective, Mark? What's your take on that? Obviously it's all over the news right now and so what are your thoughts with
Mark Young: Yeah.
In-Person: with restaurants? I know there a lot of I mean you pull up to a drive thru somewhere and you you most of more often than not you see it's more automated with, you know, the person asking, you know, do you want to use your mobile app and then then the next person
Bryan Gorman: with restaurants. I know there a lot of I mean you pull up to a drive thru somewhere and you y most o more often than not you see it's more automated with, you know, the person asking, you know, if do you want to use your mobile app and then then the next person is the one that's actually taking your order. So, you know, how I mean that's just one example of it. But how what do how do you see AI playing out and in the role within the restaurant space and and kinda just curious your take overall on on it?
In-Person: actually taking your order. So you know, how I mean that's just one example of it. But how what do you how do you see AI playing out and in the role within the restaurant space and and kinda just curious your take overall on on it?
Mark Young: Yeah. Yeah, so I mean just from a consumer, and then I'll relate it back to sort of finance, HR, and and Lego, but as from a consumer standpoint, you know, the the customer experience has changed, obviously. it's less personable. and I don't know necessarily. I understand the cost aspects of employees and the difficulty to get employees, especially at you know, convenient, quick, you know, service restaurants. so you know, bringing in you know, electronics and and anything, you know, that you can speak to and AI picks up that information and processes it quickly. is, you know, from a finance standpoint something that restaurants just have to do to to you know keep up with with their competitors. the problem is I I believe that you're not having as much of that interaction and I think there are people that you know because they struggle maybe with technology and you know once you get it it's whether it's a restaurant or a convenience store or grocery store, if something goes wrong in that order, you need to have somebody there and you have frustration. And from an HR perspective, you need to train people again on how to deal with, you know, you know, a consumer that maybe is unhappy. and has that patience. And do you have the time as a as an owner to you know invest in coaching and and performance management around what happens now when you have a difficult issue that maybe isn't because of the food, it's because of the ordering process. And that's you know, so it's it's been one thing maybe and you know I didn't like the experience because of how this employee was and now I don't like the experience because of how the ordering was.
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: And so you still have to have again good HR that understands coaching and giving feedback in a in a positive way. And especially again with a different generation that isn't used to feedback. It's everybody got a medal. And so, you know, I say that tongue in cheek, but you
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
Mark Young: know, honestly, in in managing people over, you know, now a thirty-five year period, that that has changed. And what you can and can't say from a legal perspective has changed, of course. And so that all of a sudden becomes how you do it and the way that you do it becomes something that I I think I'm seeing from clients asking us these questions, skipping over that part of training because we didn't have that training, you know, growing up. We went to McDonald's and You know, it was learn the process. And you know, now it the assistant general manager and general managers really have to be good coaches and understand
Bryan Gorman: Mm.
Mark Young: that that might not have been something that they learned, you know, early on, you know, in their teens. They maybe weren't mowing lawns for the neighbors and and those type of things, those those jobs where you were dealing with adults. And so when you have younger employees, that's that's a challenge. the AI thing too, on top of it is because it's so new, the number of potential legal issues, and not the hacking, you know, sort of thing that we're seeing for you know all over the news, but what can go wrong, you know, from a again, from an order, the mistake that maybe somebody punched something in. maybe the orders got mixed up and do people understand that technology well enough to fix it? And you know, do you need somebody that can almost you know code to be able to do those things? the again the the legal side of are is someone damaged from AI in that experience in in you know whether it's ordering or whether it's from an HR perspective whether it's again the advice that you got from AI that you then translate to you know a problem employee these are not again these are not legal tools these are these are written by lawyers but it doesn't protect you from it doesn't have the attorney client privilege and everything that goes with it. So again we have a faster tool. it's tremendously valuable from from that standpoint, but you also, you know, can't get rid of really good processes and really understanding HR compliance and the things that go with that, that AI doesn't replace that. It just doesn't. I haven't seen it yet.
Bryan Gorman: No, absolutely. you mentioned something too when you were talking there, Mark, about
In-Person: Absolutely. and you mentioned something too when you were talking there, Mark, about
Bryan Gorman: about the the manager in the restaurant. So kind of switching gears on you a little bit, but we we talked we talked a little well, we had some episodes prior to to to the to you coming on board as far as talking about the GM, the role of the GM, how important that that is to a restaurant. So, you know, they're they're usually promoted because they're great at operations, right? But not always trained in in leadership or people leadership. So
In-Person: about the the manager in the restaurant. So kind of switching gears on you a little bit, but we talked we talked a little well we had some episodes prior to to to the to you coming on board as far as talking about the GM, the role of the GM, how important that that is to a restaurant. So, you know, they're they're usually promoted because they're great at operations, right? But not always trained in in leadership or people leadership. So
Mark Young: Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: What do you think brands and owners can do or should be doing better to kind of prepare managers
In-Person: what do you think, you know, brands and and owners can do or should be doing better to kind of prepare managers Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: for that role?
Mark Young: Yeah, it's a it's a it's a really interesting challenge. we the company that I was at again PDI Corn Ferry, one of their divisions was these were PhD industrial organizational psychologists and it was a study of work and it was how do you do performance management, talent management, how do you How can you decide who gets promoted, where their strengths and weaknesses are, what you can do to train those, you know, weaknesses, and what can you do to train employees on how to not only do their job operationally, but do it with, you know, again, aligned with the strategy. So with a restaurant, you know, customer experience is huge, the brand is huge. And to understand how the cash register works and maybe how the you know the burger is supposed to be and everything else is one thing. and again, a lot of times the general managers and assistant general managers are people who have been at that restaurant for a while, were good at it, and they get promoted, so you keep to general manager, but they might not have had any people skills or people training. you know, supervisory training because what you know we have a ton of baby boomers, you know, 62 and older, who are now retiring. We have a gap in talent in terms of just number of people who went through the 20s and 30s where they learned supervisory, then manager, managing people instead of processes, and learned how to deal with their employees as well as with customers. And so we've had less people go through those, you know, what I'll call the leadership ladder where they went from individual contributor all the way up to a C suite person and they had, you know, very specific experiences that are different at every level. We've all, you know, you and I have gone through that where As an individual, we had a supervisor. We may have liked that person and may not liked it. And then we had learned from that person sort of how to be a supervisor. Then we were a supervisor and we learned how to deal with problem employees and good employees. And it wasn't as quick to make the jump where maybe you s you skipped a couple of levels, a couple of rungs in the ladder. And so I think one of the one of the biggest challenges is the operationally strong. Assistant general manager or general manager maybe hasn't had leadership training or you know supervisory training. and it's very difficult. You know, you can't put them in front of a screen, and yet that's how they're learning in high school and in college now. there's less and less of this one-on-one interaction, looking at somebody, you know, directly in the eye, giving them, you know, bad news. delivering a termination, you know, those type of things. They haven't had that experience. And so training on video versus training on the job and having that experience you know, tr through trial and error, is I I think is just not happening as much as it was maybe twenty-five years ago. And I think that's maybe one of the biggest challenges is how do you pr you know Keep your talent, promote them, but promote them in a role that they're going to be successful at as well, they're going to be good for your brand. And just putting somebody in a supervisory role, dealing with employees versus maybe you know continuing to run operations, if you don't have a big you know company where there is separate operations and maybe they're not dealing with as many employees. it's gonna be tough to keep that that talent and you're gonna put somebody in there that probably isn't going to be successful. They'll know it, you'll know it and that, you know, whenever there's not a fit, it's it's very difficult to kind of move them out.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, a and and I'm just curious what your your thoughts are on you know why w or maybe w maybe an example like of c of somebody doing it well, like the training piece. Like what have you what have you seen in know in in your background that if if you know, hey, this group's doing a really good job of training their people, maybe kind of share what they've done, maybe a best practice. Just curious what your thoughts are on that.
In-Person: Yeah, a it and I'm just curious what your your thoughts are on you know why or maybe w maybe an example like of of somebody doing it well, like the training piece. Like what have you what have you seen in you know in in your background that if if you know, hey this group's doing a really good job of training their people, maybe kinda share what they've done, maybe a best practice, just curious what your thoughts are on that.
Mark Young: Yeah. I think from a best practices standpoint, companies that I've seen and in companies that I know were were clients of ours at PDI Corn Ferry, the one of the probably the biggest impact in terms of training, if you would, was to put people in you know, rotations into different roles. If if your company's, you know, large enough, and in even if it's just you have five or six different roles, maybe you're a server in a restaurant, maybe you're a bartender, maybe you're a host, and maybe you're a supervisor. And if you can rotate people through, you know, whether it's a month at a time in those different roles, so that not only do you get the benefit of learning the operations fully. you get them experiencing what it what it it takes to be dealing with a customer customer, problem customer, a good customer, you know, the experience, et cetera. dealing with employees, you know, having somebody that can experience supervisory skills in that in that job, but not just throwing them in there, you know, and in having more of a rotation where they can you know, watch somebody do that that job, or again, talk with them about you know, one of the things, you know, do you want to be a supervisor? And if so, perhaps give you know, one of those psychological tests and see, you know, what type what type of attributes do they have that are gonna work well and where, you know, where are their blind spots? And and you know, giving them that feedback that here are some of the things you need to work on and then put them in those experiences because again, reading it in a book, watching it in a video is not gonna do it. If one of the things that they struggle with is again somebody that you know maybe you have somebody who assumes you know that if a person's you know taking a break or talking with another employee that maybe they're goofing around versus you know just again learning that maybe they're what they're doing is is problem solving and so go into it asking a question of, you know, hey, is there anything I can help you guys with rather than assume that, you know, they're goofing around. And just so that they know just how to deal with those situations so they're not getting themselves into trouble. you know, there's a lot of those things you we've learned doing it the hard way and just assuming that somebody's doing, you know, goofing around,
Bryan Gorman: Ha.
Mark Young: or, you know, they went outside, so they once they've gone outside to smoke. And maybe what they did is They forgot something in their car and it wasn't that. You accuse them of smoking and we weren't supposed to do that. you learn very quickly not to ask that question again. And you know, and again, if it if as a supervisor or as a manager you're having a problem with it, you know, training somebody, maybe coaching them on how to give you know, difficult feedback, you know, in in the there
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
In-Person: Yeah.
Mark Young: there's There's models on how to do that that work for every personality that people can do it in a comfortable way. That's very professional. And again, these are all tools that that systems have. I know the system that that you work with has that you know, in training materials and stuff like that. So that information is out there. You have to, again, as an owner or as a GM, you have to have some time to you know, sit and think and plan some of this talent management and HR to be able to understand this sort of the succession planning, if you would, to get to move
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: people into those supervisory roles all the way up to the general manager.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
In-Person: Okay. And again kinda switching this on you a little bit again. I I we talked about, you know, the obviously the employee experience and a little bit about labor costs and I know labor costs are are huge right now. It's a it's a big, I guess, pressure point in the industry. So I talked to a lot of owner operators out there, like well what are some ideas to keep costs under control and without making that employee experience worse, right? So you know, what are your thoughts on on what, you know, owner operators can do with I mean costs are still continuing to
Bryan Gorman: And again, kind of switching gears on you a little bit again. I know labor costs are are huge right now. It's a it's a big, I guess, pressure point in the industry. So I talked to a lot of owner operators out there, like well, what are some ideas to keep costs under control and without making that employee experience worse, right? So, you know, what are your thoughts on on what, you know, owner operators can do with how I I mean costs are still continuing to
Mark Young: Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: rise out there inflation, you know, rising and you know, what are your thoughts on that? How what are ways that you know from from a finance perspective, you know, how can how can they do that?
In-Person: rise up their inflation, you know, rising and you know, what are your thoughts on that? How what are ways that, you know, from from a finance perspective, you know, how can how can they do that?
Mark Young: Yeah. Well a s a couple of things that I learned early in my career. I went from accounting firm, law firm where you had very little. it was it was difficult for that positive employee experience. It was a grind. It was sixty hours a week, it was all about billable hours, you didn't necessarily, you know The good partners were the ones that brought in clients. They weren't necessarily the best people developers and everything else. we've gotten better at that in those industries and put people in those roles. There are professional HR, there's professional sales now in those industries, and that wasn't
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: back in in the in my day in the nineties. And so I saw it from the negative side on the positive side, again, going to to PDI Corn Ferry where their job was to teach talent management and one of the things was to not just give bad feedback or difficult feedback but the little things like somebody does something nice for you or does a good job leave them a little note Maybe a little gift card, you know, maybe let off 15 minutes early. I mean, there are so many little things that I still have those cards of the CEO writing me when I thought, you know, he didn't know my name. And we had a thing that was, you know, called a you know, I c I forget the name of it now, but it was a card that you would get and it was written s you know, handwritten by the CEO. and it would be, you know. in your office when you went back and you know or HR would bring it down to you. So there's you know there's little things like that. Also just you know even though it's a financial issue, you know, trying to have some type of you know community built in your restaurants especially. You know, how about a you know a a family get together? You know, we had a family get together at a park. Some people don't want to go to it. I get that. but a lot of people did. A lot of people were kind of proud of the company that they worked for. And if you're in a restaurant, you know, how about you know, after they close on a Sunday or whatever, you have a a dinner for the, you know, for the fam, you know, for your employees and their, you know, plus one or whatever. just so people can know each other, because you spend more of your time, you know, at work typically, you know, other than in COVID, than you do sleeping or at home. And, you know, to to sort of build that community gets people again, I think employees build better relationships. it's, you know, when you go home and you talk about your day at work, it's kind of fun to know who those people are. you know, we've sort of gotten rid of the holiday parties and those type of things. You know, again, for the amount of money you spend, those are those are really things that were important. I I remember those fondly where I know it you know, as a CFO how much it costs and I I still think it was well worth it. It it created an environment where people you felt totally different about an employee if you spent a little bit of time with them outside of working with them. You know, because again, you're under stress, you have people that you got to worry about, you got customers you gotta worry about. You know, you got you don't have a lot of time just to see how they're doing. And so that really, you know, again, some of these activities. have gone by the wayside and you know remote work has hurt that and I think again getting face to face, doing some handwritten notes, those type of things, maybe having some awards, you know, we gotta rid of the employee of the month and, you know, those type of things. You just don't see that as much. And people care about that. there's nothing better than a little crystal, you know, you hit your goal or whatever. I still have some of those from you know a job 15 years ago, you know.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah. No, absolutely. It helps with the culture, I mean overall, right? I think that's yeah. Yeah.
In-Person: Yeah. No absolutely. It helps with the culture, I mean, overall, right? I think that's yeah, yeah.
Mark Young: Yeah. Totally. Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, absolutely. well I think we're gonna there's some fun questions for you, Mark. Not that not that these were not these were fun questions, right? But these are a few that I love asking our guests that come on just to kinda get a little more insight into into you. But you know, so what's I guess if you're pulling up to a drive thru, right? What what's one song
In-Person: Absolutely. well I think we're gonna there's some fun questions for you, Mark. Not that not that these were not these two were fun questions, right? But these are a few that I love asking our guests to come on just to kinda get a little more insight into into you. But so what's I guess if you're pulling up to a drive thru, right? What what's one song
Mark Young: Yeah, yeah. Sure.
In-Person: that would be play what's what's your drive up song, I guess? Like you have the walk up song in major league baseball, you're right before they come up to bat. What's what's your what's your drive thru walk up song?
Bryan Gorman: that would be play what's what's your drive up song, I guess? Like you have the walk up song in major league baseball right before they come up to bat. What's what's your what's your drive thru walk up song or drive thru song?
Mark Young: Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny because coaching baseball, you know, that we played when the kids got older, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years old, they got to play at the University of Minnesota and they had they they actually had a walk up song. And that was maybe the coolest
Bryan Gorman: did they? Okay.
In-Person: did they? Okay.
Mark Young: thing of the whole deal for them is figuring out their walk up song. So for me, it would probably be one of two Billy Joel songs. It would either be Piano Man or the Bottle Red, Bottle White.
Bryan Gorman: Okay.
In-Person: Okay.
Mark Young: you know, that's on a about six of my playlists when I'm
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
Mark Young: when I'm walking or a Kenny Chesney song. I would be
Bryan Gorman: Okay.
In-Person: Okay.
Mark Young: doing something like that. So yeah. And I might be,
Bryan Gorman: Awesome. Very cool. Very cool.
In-Person: Very cool. Very cool.
Mark Young: you know, a little old for it. My kids are embarrassed by it, but I've I was I'd probably be, you know, bobbing my head a little bit and grooving a little bit and probably embarrassing them, especially if they're in the car. Absolutely.
Bryan Gorman: And you'd be on the drive through camera, right? They'd all be like
In-Person: And you'd be on the drive thru camera, right? They'd all be like So, you if you had ch to choose, are you more of a breakfast, lunch, or a late night, quick service restaurant kind of guy?
Bryan Gorman: so you know, if you had ch to choose, are you more of a breakfast, lunch, or a late night, quick service restaurant kind of guy?
Mark Young: Yeah, so probably a late night. I'm either so I worked at Shaky's Pizza. I don't know if you're familiar with Shakespeare but 15
Bryan Gorman: Okay. I've heard of shakies, yeah.
In-Person: Okay. I've heard of shakies, yeah.
Mark Young: and 16. if I had, you know, absolutely had to have I could have anything I wanted, it would be a pepperoni and sausage, shaky's pizza. What's ironic is shaky's is still around. There's one in Palm Springs. So last year when we were there for a tennis tournament, we had to go to Shaky's. I I couldn't believe it. You know,
In-Person: Ha ha
Mark Young: people are like, Shaky's, really? but if anyone's listening to this from Shaky's, come back to Minnesota because you'll have a customer and customer and me. And so I even I think
In-Person: Here you go.
Bryan Gorman: There you go.
Mark Young: I have a picture posted and LinkedIn with my dog and the shaky's sign on the back. the other would be Dairy Queen. I'd get a blizzard no matter what.
Bryan Gorman: Okay. Yeah. yeah.
In-Person: Okay. Yeah. yeah.
Mark Young: You know, if if if we're going to, you know, get an ice cream and the place is closed, there's nothing worse than that. You know, it's like, okay, well, we're going to the grocery store anyway, so we're gonna get some ice cream. Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: Yes. Yeah. That's awesome. So what are some
In-Person: Yes. Yeah. That's awesome. So what are some brands maybe you're on that are maybe I I guess newer in I think of my my daughter is a senior in college and she's always doing the seven brews or the the you know really big right now or the Drake's, you know, at at the Twisters or something like that or what are your thoughts on or maybe what's one brand that maybe a newer brand that you kinda got your eye on you you really like and what's something that you yeah
Bryan Gorman: brands maybe you're on that are maybe I I guess newer in there in I think of my my daughter as a senior in college and she's always doing the seven brews or the the you know really big right now or the drinks, you know, at at the Twisters or something like that or what are your thoughts on or maybe what's one brand that maybe a newer brand that you kinda got your eye on you you really like and what's something that you yeah
Mark Young: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Well, so I gotta I gotta say two. So one one is Ultra from Budweiser and it's
Bryan Gorman: Okay.
In-Person: Okay.
Mark Young: only it's only because my son works there. But in all seriousness,
In-Person: Okay.
Bryan Gorman: Okay.
Mark Young: it's it's a it I like the brand because it's it's different, right? It's a it's a little different than the business model. It used to be, you know, how much alcohol can we get in the beer, how much you know. how macho is it and and everything else. And they brought in you know, they project a brand of, you know, athletes and activeness and everything else with beer. And I just thought, this is great. You know, what a what an interesting way to, you know, brand yourself, you know, in a alcoholic drink. and and now, you know, the non-alcoholic drinks are what's keeping a lot of those big companies, you know, the beer companies and liquor alive. And it's amazing to me just how many people have switched to that or, you know, try those and and everything. So I'm fascinated by that because as you know, I'm fascinated by just changes to business models or changes to industries. You know, the other the brand that i am you know like and am pretty loyal to is pxg golf clubs
Bryan Gorman: Okay.
In-Person: Okay.
Mark Young: so parsons is you know the exping guy who brought out the first set of golf clubs that were you know had a a bigger bottom which was a lot easier to hit and made the game really fun for a lot of people especially got hot when tiger woods went pro in ninety seven and finally
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
In-Person: Yeah.
Mark Young: everybody else because of the golf clubs could hit the ball pretty pretty well. but I like the the PXG they're they're very they give I think half off to veterans. so they have you know focused on you know something that I you know, appreciate and and and really like. Folds of Honor and and Tunnels of Towers, you know, those are all,
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Mark Young: you know, great non profits that I follow closely.
Bryan Gorman: Absolutely.
In-Person: Absolutely.
Mark Young: But to use that with golf I thought was a you know a stroke of genius and And they're good golf clubs. I like so I've I've
Bryan Gorman: Yeah.
In-Person: But
Mark Young: followed that and I I don't know how new that that really is, but they're they're relatively new, you know, from from the standpoint versus, you know, title lists and and Nike and those type of things. Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: Awesome.
In-Person: Awesome,
Bryan Gorman: Awesome. so and what's one restaurant trend you wish more operators would either, you know, embrace or completely stop doing?
In-Person: awesome. so and what's one restaurant trend you wish more operators would either you know embrace or completely stop doing?
Mark Young: So it used to be, I just talked about this today, used to be when the coffee shops introduced food. And you would go to the rest you know, the coffee shop, and I wanted a cup of coffee, and they would have one microwave, and somebody in front of me would order eight breakfast sandwiches, and they would run the breakfast sandwiches for a minute in the you know, in the microwave, and I thought, And I understand from a finance standpoint how much money they make on and everything else. They've figured out how to do that. They take web orders now. There's more web orders than when you go there live. So that business model has adapted to the quickness. The one thing that I would like to see changed is it happened to me today, even it's stopping at a convenience store is are you a member of our inner circle? 'cause if you do,
In-Person: Yes.
Bryan Gorman: Yes.
Mark Young: if you have six if you this your sixth one is free if you're in part of that.
Bryan Gorman: Right.
In-Person: Right.
Mark Young: If they would have a QR code or a kiosk so that I didn't hold up 75 people who are behind me or even five people, I would sign up for every one of those. But the fact that it's you know a two and a half minute process and you have somebody at seven in the morning who's getting their coffee and they would just want to get out of there and they're paying their gas and whatever it is. So boy, with QR codes, it would make it so easy. People would do it because the the loyalty
Bryan Gorman: Ha.
Mark Young: programs and stuff, you know, getting a discount, they would all sign up, but making that an easy process, because I did sign up, I got one that was a QR code, and I signed up for it while I was sitting in my car, and I thought, why isn't everybody doing this?
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, I think you're on to something there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah. Absolutely. Well, hey, to wrap us up, Mark, how can someone reach you if they wanna connect with you and and learn more about what you and what you're doing?
In-Person: I think you're on to something there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah. Absolutely. Well hey, to wrap us up, Mark, how can someone reach you if they wanna connect with you and and learn more about what you and what you're doing?
Mark Young: Yeah. I trademarked that. No, no, I'm kidding. Yeah, I'd i and I'd love to help anybody out just to talk. you know, I just got connected with a good high school and college buddy of mine and I'm helping seniors at at a high school connect with business people to learn about industries so that they can you know decide on their career choices and and what to go to school for and it's just so rewarding. We all want to give back. We all wanna help. It's just it's a it's amazing how happy I was coming back from that day. so anyone can reach out to me. It's you know on LinkedIn, send me a connection, it's Mark H Young, and you'll see again J D B A. so if you're looking for different. Otherwise, anyone can send me an email at markhyoung93 at gmail.com and Again, I'd be happy to guide them in a way to find there's so many different things that people need, a connection to, you know, again, bookkeeping or you know, maybe they need a a you know a way to figure out a HR issue or they need a policy document or something like that. Happy to help them out and do that. And You know, if we can make a connection there or become partners in a way or whatever it is, fantastic. Love it.
Bryan Gorman: Awesome. Well you're the best, Mark. I I appreciate our friendship and and su such wisdom and just love our conversations and love to have you back again and appreciate your time.
In-Person: Well you're the best Mark. I I appreciate our friendship and and such wisdom and just love our conversations and love to have you back again and appreciate your time.
Mark Young: Thanks, Brian. Yeah, I really appreciate you asking me. And to everybody listening, don't give up on talent management. You know, just be patient. All right. Have a great day.
Bryan Gorman: Absolutely. Thanks, Mark. Talk to you soon.
In-Person: Absolutely. Thanks Mark. Talk to you soon.
