Source Material #422 - Bruce Wayne Murderer? Part 1

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Good days around.
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Will hear you real slap and really take time down.
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We're here too, sec Material goodness.
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Let's say you gotta meet yourself there, pal, Oh do
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I really have to? This is your show.
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I don't want to do that.
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I'm the guest.
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I'm gonna you are the guests.
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Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the Source Material Comics Podcast.
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I am on the mend. Just put it that way.
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Let me tell you, Friday night was not fun and
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Saturday was just miserable.
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But luckily this morning Friday night, Friday night, he's.
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Oh boy, it was bad. It was really bad, and
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I was the fourth of the household to get it.
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I was really hoping I can avoid it, but nope.
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So I've got my gatorade here, I'm making it through.
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I'm feeling a lot better today, Thank goodness.
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I appreciate you not canceling the show.
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I would have definitely given you way ahead of time.
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It came close yesterday, but I was like, I'll see
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how I'm doing Sunday morning, and I was going all right,
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although I slept about thirteen hours nice and then yeah,
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then it took a nap today for about an hour,
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so I am well rested and well hydrated, and we're
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going to be talking about Bruce Wayne murderer slash Fugitive
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because I feel like we get into that storyline here
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as we are talking to.
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Issues. Go ahead.
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I was gonna say, so this story, this crossover storyline,
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was divided into two graphic novels and two trade paperbacks,
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and then it was eventually combined into one. We're talking
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about the one I have the floppy.
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I have a trade paperback.
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That's a thick Daddy.
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This is so thick Daddy.
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And yeah, Bruce Wayne breaks out of Blackgate about two
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thirds of the way through Murderer. So the next book
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that will do at the end of the month Fugitive.
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He's been on the lamb already. But yeah, this is
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your show. Well, you're like the Brian last of my
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Jim Cornett and this is the Cornet Q and A show.
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This is your show, Brian, do.
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Me a favor because I think that you covered this
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and I cannot remember did you guys talk about No
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Man's Land at one point?
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Okay, so I've never done a No Man's Land show. Okay,
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if you didn't cover it, it's never been covered. But
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it's been mentioned a bunch.
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I was gonna say, Shean must have done something on it,
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because I remember that being mentioned at one point, and
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I swear that you were involved somehow, and I was
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definitely most likely confused. But regardless, No Man's Land definitely
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happens before this, because this is two thousand and two DC.
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This takes They reference No Man's Land in this like
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Bruce can't murder anyone. He like practically rebuilt this city,
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as if those two things are mutually exclusive. Right, we
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should have been written now because they would have said
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Bruce Wayne eats babies.
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Okay, so yeah, we got I've divided this into three parts.
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I didn't have a chance to tell you exactly how
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we're going to be doing this tonight, but we're going
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to do parts one through eight first, and then we'll
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do the next section of eight books and then I
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think it had twenty three or twenty four books in
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this thing.
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We agree to this schedule. When you realize what this was,
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I told him not to do this.
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Well, it's funny because I looked at I sent you
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the message and I said, do me a favorite, tell
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me what's on the back of the book. Because there's
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two renditions of this book.
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I know.
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The one that you have is the twenty fourteen version,
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and it has way more issues in it, like almost
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double the issues.
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Is the original trade paperback?
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Oh really?
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I think it cuts off at issue five ninety nine
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of I want to say as Batman or Detective Comics.
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I can't remember, Okay, I'll just read it.
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Collect some of the most groundbreaking Batman stories in Batman
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the ten cent Adventure.
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That's where we start.
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Comics seven hundred and sixty six through seven hundred and seventy,
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Batgirl twenty four and twenty seven, Night Wing sixty five
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and sixty six, sixty eight and sixty nine, Gotham Knights
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twenty five through twenty nine, Birds of Prey thirty nine
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through forty one, Robin ninety eight ninety nine, and Batman
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five ninety nine through six oh two. It is concluded
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in the next volume Batman Bruce Waing Fugitive DC Comics
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seven eighty one four. Sorry, I was reading the skew.
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Yeah, read us the skew. Please we need that for documentation. Yeah.
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The original I think.
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Graphic novel cuts off an issue five ninety nine for Batman,
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so like there's a whole other, like bunch of issues
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attached to this thing, which is fine. We're making our
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way through, and I I will tell you that there
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are some issues that definitely feel very adjacent, like as
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in like very Farley adjacent.
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I was get Farley because Furley adjacent.
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I agree with you. There's some stuff that I just
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skim around. I'm like this, this had stuck with the
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actual like Bruce Wayne murderer storyline and didn't go into
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this Tom fuckery. I'm gonna let you lead your show
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and talk about this, but boy, do I have a
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lot to say about his decision to basically kill the
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Bruce Wayne persona and just exists as Batman, which is
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like the whole point of this storyline.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, Well, let's go ahead. I'm not going to give
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the creative teams here.
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I'll probably do that in post edit, all right, So yeah,
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let me go ahead and we'll get into the summary
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of these first eight books, and then I'll let you
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get in.
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Your shots here.
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So Bruce Wayne's nightmare begins in the Batman ten cent Adventure,
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where the murder of Vesper Fairchild shatters what little personal
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stability he had left, saving lives, but failing to save everyone.
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Bruce returns home to find Vesper dead and Wayne Manor,
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only for police to arrest him for her murder.
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I have so much to say about this first fucking issue.
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The evidence appears, Dan and Bruce offers.
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Little what sorry continue.
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Bruce offers little defense As his past trauma is dragged
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into public view. The city begins to see him not
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as Gotham's greatest benefactor, but as a potential killer. From
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the very start, Bruce withdraws emotionally, choosing silence even as
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his life unravels.
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I thought it was gird that Bruce Ryne was in
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the Epstein files.
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Oh my goodness, Oh boy, no wonder he disappeared, and
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he's not really on the lamb trust me, he's.
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Dead, and he weirdly he goes back to the Epstein Island.
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It's crazy.
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As the investigation intensifies and detective comics and Gotham Knights,
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Bruce and Sasha Bordeaux plead not guilty. Sasha, by the way,
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is his bodyguard who actually knows he's Batman and was
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actually with him the night that this happened. But the
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mounting evidence, including a gun registered to Bruce, and a
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chilling nine to one to one recording paints a grim picture.
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Bail has denied, conspiracy charges are added, and media scrutiny
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turns his childhood tragedy into motive. Bruce refuses help from
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those closest to him, including Barbara Gordon, and isolates himself further.
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Even as Cassandra Caine deduces that Bruce and Batman are
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one and the same and the bat family quietly mobilizes
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to clear his name, Bruce remains distant, seemingly more concerned
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with protecting his identity than defending himself. Meanwhile, his absence
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destabilizes everything around him. It graces and is ordered to
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stay out of the investigation. Tim Drake is left vulnerable
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without guidance, and Alfred is forced into damage control as
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Wayne enterprises Falters. Evidence surfaces suggesting Vesper had been investigating Batman,
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hinting that Bruce may be the target of a larger
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calculated frame up. Still, Bruce refuses to explain himself, allowing
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the world to believe the worst rather than risk exposing
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his mission. His silence, meant to protect the greater cause,
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only deepens the perception of guilt. By the time Batman
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Number five ninety nine unfolds, Bruce's imprisonment becomes strategic rather
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than passive. Inside Blackgate, he endures public vilification and escalating
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prison violence while prosecutors attempt to turn Sasha against him.
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Though he could escape at any moment, he chooses to
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remain until a staged attack in his cell gives him
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the opportunity to shed the Bruce Wayne facade and reassert control.
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Brutally defeating his attackers, he allows the media to see
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him as unstable, even dangerous, But as he watches the
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bat signal from behind bars, it's cleared this is no surrender.
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Bruce Wayne is not simply surviving prison. He is maneuvering
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within it, playing a longer game that only he fully understands.
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So what are you thinking here? Mark?
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So I want to go again and set this up.
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Bruce Wayne and his bodyguard Sasha Bordeaux, yea, Sasha bedroom fucker.
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They're all on patrol, they're beaten up here to l
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are doing Batman stuff, and then they come home. They
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take off their costumes and Bruce Wayne walks out and
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sees Vesper fair Child on the ground and she's been shot.
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In the back.
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Like five times, and she is long dead. She has
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been laying there for quite a while in a puddle
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of her own blood. And then the cops, as if
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they were waiting for him to come there, kick open
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the door.
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See this guy weeping.
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In sorrow holding her, like, please, don't be dead, woman
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I love who was shot in the back five times,
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And they're like, get up, you're underrest. Look, I know
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comic books are not real life, but that is not
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how that goes correct. They would at least like, can
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you come outside and talk to us and tell us.
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Yeah, let's get out a picture of what happened. That's there.
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I'm not saying they wouldn't have had charges on him,
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not at the seat of the crime, not the way
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that was presented. And unless it comes out, and it
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does not come out in this story. I'm making a
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big deal about this because I read the whole book
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and I was waiting for like, because I'm watching this,
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I'm like, that's not how an arrest would go. Like
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they just don't arrest everybody at the scene of a
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crime that's just hanging out. They actually have to like
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either catch you in, like like had he walked in
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holding a gun or had they walked in and he
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was like holding a gun standing over her.
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Okay, then I get it.
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They're like like drop that weapon, and then they phaem
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full of holes like that's making sure he drops a
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weapon like he was again vulnerable kneeling holding her lovingly crying.
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I understand cops sometimes don't get it right, but they
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generally have some context of what's happening in a room
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and can figure things up. Yeah, they walk in and
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they see that, and they immediately you're under arrest for murder,
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and then they like trump up charges on him, like
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I think it was like a rape, and then something
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else like yeah, whatever, that did you a right? Right?
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So Like again, I like.
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Greg Rucca, and I think he was responsible for some
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of this, like Chuck Dixon's responsible for some of this,
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right Greg Rucca. And I like a lot of Greg
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Rucca's stuff, like he did want the Wonder Woman book
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that we read that we reviewed a while back. We've
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done some other Greg Rucca stuff and it's pretty good,
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so is the Chuck Dixon stuff. Generally speaking, I understand
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none of these people are like murder investigators, but this
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was a bit rushed and it made it seem and
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like the obvious. People listening to this like, like, isn't
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it obvious he's being set up? The cops don't know that,
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and a no. And that's the thing the entirety of
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Batman Murderer. At no point is it revealed what evidence
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they had going into this. They had a nine to
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one one call that said help me. He's killing me.
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That's what they had. They don't know who's on the
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other side of that.
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They don't know who the he is number one, number
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number two.
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They had no preconceived knowledge that this was taking place
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or that Bruce Wayne was responsible for the So for
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them to kick in the door, guns up blazing, and
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immediately charge him with murder, I was like, I understand,
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we want to get the kids to the mall, but
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boy did we miss a.
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Few stu there.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, So immediately I had a problem with this book. Like,
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don't get me wrong, I like the book. It's premise
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that Bruce Wayne is framed for yet another murder of
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yet another girlfriend. Don't date Bruce Wayne and you'll end
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up dead. You date Bruce Wayne, You're just in a
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full lead. So immediately I had a problem with the
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like the way this like, I generally accept the overall premise,
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and I think as time goes on, as because this
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whole thing is basically a murder mystery, and.
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The mystery is who is setting him up? And how
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did he set him up?
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And as more evidence comes out, like they eventually get
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then I win one tape and they're like, how did
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that happen? Then they get the video, and I don't
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know how far to the book this is, so if
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I'm screwing up your sectionings. They get the video footage
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of him buying a gun, and it's immediately suspect because
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Batman and why the hell are not into guns? Why
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00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:15.039
is he buying He's a billionaire with bodyguards and he's Batman.
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Why does he need a gun? So they think that's
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doctor footage.
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Turns out it's not doctored, and then when they ask
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00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:21.559
him about it, he's like, fuck you and the horse
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00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:24.759
he rode in on, So again a little suspect. Like
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the book does a really good job of putting out there,
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what if Bruce Wayne actually did like you already know
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he didn't, But it plays with perspective from the rest
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of the Bat team, the bat family. They don't know that,
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and he won't talk, and he's doing weird shit like
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buying guns, not talking, not giving anybody any idea of
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what's going on, not being cooperative, not trusting the bat team.
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So everything he's doing makes him look suspicious. But for
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the reader, the omniscient reader who's seeing everything, you already
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know he didn't do this right. He wasn't there, he
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was out patrolling. But I think the book does a
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really good job of at least playing with that perspective
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and creating enough misdirection.
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And I like that. The through line is.
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This is a mystery, and your detective is Barbara Gordon,
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and now she's got all of these people out there
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doing stuff for her, but she's basically the one examining evidence,
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and she's the one that is deeply suspicious of Bruce
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because she doesn't fucking know whether or not she killed
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this lady. All that stuff is good. So the fact
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00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.879
that I'm harping on this little bit like I wish
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they had taken a little bit more time to set
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this up to make it look like he had actually
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killed her, so that the cops had a good reason
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to arrest him. Because it starts off week and stupid,
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like the cops are in on it, except that they're not,
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because everything through Batman Bruce Wayne Murderer, at no point
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does any writer give any suspicion that the cops are
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in on this. So I don't understand why they're so
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quick to arrest him when there's no evidence other than
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he happens to be standing there at the time. How
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00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:02.440
fucking incompetent is Gotham?
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PD? Right? Right, take up breath now so you can
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get in Well.
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00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:10.320
The other name is doing some writing here. The Batman
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books is Ed brew Baker and brew Baker. So he's awesome.
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00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:15.519
Weve we like a lot of what he's done.
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He was the JUICPD.
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I right, yeah, yeah, So just why I don't understand
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why this starts off so bad?
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It's yes, Ed brew Baker knows his stuff.
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The police procedural stuff is usually his strong suit. And
308
00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.080
that just seemed like it we got off to a
309
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:32.320
start where it was like you're scratching your head, like
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how they had to get him in jail somehow. It's like,
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we got to get this guy in jail and accused
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of murder, and you would just like you said, I
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00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:40.679
feel like they could have done a better job of
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setting that up.
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00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:43.840
A lot of them all change like he's holding her
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and then he sees and then the gun's there. If
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they just had the weapon at the sy and Bruce
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Wayne picks up and he just has it in his hands.
319
00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:52.480
Yeah, something like that, right, handing.
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00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:53.799
Over a dead woman with a gun in your hands.
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I can see why the cops would be.
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Like, hey, you're right, murderer, right, And.
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Then Bruce Wayne doesn't talk, he's not helping, and Doggy
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Style Bedroom isn't talking either.
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So I don't remember name.
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00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:06.440
I don't. I think that's on purpose.
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Now I think working with me, Missionary Fairchild isn't talking either.
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By the way, the questioning of them two was so awful, like, oh, granted,
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00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:19.879
I've never been really questioned by the police before. I'm
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00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:23.240
not in my long history of working in corrections. I
331
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.679
was not present at any interrogation. But that's not how
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00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:29.799
it goes. Just like, all right, put the light on
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00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:32.799
dak of water. I want to stick a ball. Okay,
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00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:34.840
tell me you murdered her.
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00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:39.480
You know you're going to jail, right, A little New.
336
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.919
Walt, a little romance here. Can we have some dudalism. No,
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00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:46.799
like screaming at her. It's like you like, there's the
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Gotham pedies full of fucking animals, No wonder the city
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has to have a massive magelante running around.
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Sausa plays a big role in this in the beginning,
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but she as we get through towards the end of
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this story, she falls off by the end of this book,
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like you don't hear much about Yeah, well that's the
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feeling you get because you don't hear much about her
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after this. Bruce Wayne, as we find out here later,
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he's off. Bruce Wayne is no longer Bruce Wayne.
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Yep.
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Okay, yeah. Here in my notes here.
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I did there were some things that I liked about
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our opening issue here, the ten Cent Adventure, aside from
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getting to hear the origin of Batman once again, that's
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00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:29.759
a that's become a meme, I think at this point entirely.
353
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:34.960
But a lot of the narration comes from Sasha as
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she's working alongside Batman that whole time, and it's interesting
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to see that he starts to realize he's fighting an
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unwinnable war against crime, Like he realizes that even if
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00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:49.720
like there weren't they super villains in Gotham crime would
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still be a thing. So no matter what he does,
359
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it's just never going to be something he can ever win.
360
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.599
Bruce did talk down a tiger in that book. You
361
00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:00.640
don't get much of that. He goes into a zoo,
362
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:06.640
there's a tiger loose. He stares the tiger down, the
363
00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:11.240
tiger goes back into itself. Hey, I know it was
364
00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:15.039
a top tier moment. And Batman or excuse me, Bruce
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00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.960
Wayne Murderer, they you.
366
00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:20.839
Know, they I know't I wasn't you know.
367
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.559
I'm not reading Batman, Batgirl, whatever at this point in time,
368
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:25.960
not reading any of the bat books.
369
00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:27.880
I did find it interesting though.
370
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At this point, this is where Cassandra Kine figures out
371
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:31.559
that Bruce Wayne is Batman.
372
00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:33.279
So that was pretty neat.
373
00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:37.319
But yeah, you talk about Batman isolating himself when Dick
374
00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.000
Grayson comes to talk to him and in jail and
375
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:43.759
he's like, let me help you, and he pushed him away.
376
00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:48.960
Yeah, he just does at all.
377
00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:51.799
No, No, he's like, you need to stay out of this.
378
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:53.960
I'm like, why why not?
379
00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:58.240
And I don't think we get an answer to that really,
380
00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.160
Even as we get towards the end, one and they
381
00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:01.359
actually have a confrontation.
382
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:03.880
We don't really get the answer.
383
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:07.680
He when you're ready to talk about his decision to
384
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:11.000
kill the Bruce Wayne persona, I have a lot to say,
385
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.440
but I'll tell you my favorite of the two or three,
386
00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.880
four or five dozen times he has the same conversation
387
00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:18.839
with every character on his side about how I don't
388
00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:20.400
want any of your help, go fuck yourself.
389
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:22.279
My favorite one is with Superman.
390
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:27.079
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that I think that's coming up next.
391
00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:28.160
That was good stuff.
392
00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:31.200
So my question here is again, why was he pushing
393
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those around him away?
394
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:34.359
You just don't know the answer to that.
395
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:36.720
I allude to he's never been the same since No
396
00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:39.839
Man's Land. But then they don't talk. How Like when
397
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.759
we read Salvation Run, they kept bringing up like all
398
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:46.119
the events that led to sending all the super villains
399
00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:49.880
of Salvation. They were like the Wonder Woman's rampage, the
400
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:52.880
Black Adam thing, all this. There was like four or
401
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.559
five different things that had happened. I think like the
402
00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:58.599
Flash got shot, there was a there was a few
403
00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:02.119
different things that had happened, and they were like, these
404
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.839
are all the reasons why we're doing Salvation, And they
405
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:07.480
kept saying it and they kept saying it. Same thing
406
00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:11.200
with like Planet Hulk. They brought up a few times
407
00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:13.720
what had happened that sent that the reason why the
408
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.960
Illuminati had sent Hulk to Sakar, or had sent Hulk
409
00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:18.839
to wherever they were going to originally send them, and
410
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:21.480
he never made it. They don't do that here, they go,
411
00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:23.759
he's never been the same since No Man's Land. Then
412
00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:29.039
they don't even like in the years since Jason Todd's
413
00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:33.079
been killed and Barbara was in this universe and Barbara
414
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:36.920
was crippled, they at least and I think the one
415
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:38.880
thing now that I'm saying that now I'm talking through it.
416
00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:41.640
The one thing they brought up is that Jim Gordon's dead,
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00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:44.680
Like No Man's Land happened, Jim Gordon got shot, and
418
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:47.519
he's never been the same, And I feel like that's
419
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the reason why he's behaving the way that he is.
420
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And I wish the book had done a better job
421
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of explaining that.
422
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.000
The other thing that I wrote down here, the last
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thing I had was that having Bruce in prison was
424
00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:00.200
pretty It was interesting to watch him like try to
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be subdued because he's in there as Bruce Wayne, and
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he did not want to turn loose.
427
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.680
As Batman, fairly obvious who he was.
428
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Yeah, and he finally gets pushed to that limit with
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00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:12.880
the three Aran guys that come in there and try
430
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:16.599
to mess him up, and he essentially wipes the floor
431
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:18.759
with him, puts two of them, I think two of
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00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:20.920
them have internal bleeding or something, and he messes them
433
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:21.680
up with really.
434
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:25.880
Good They're like, why does the billionaire playboy know how
435
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.640
to take on three airyans and put him in the
436
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:31.839
hospital right? Like something suspicious here? I think that's why.
437
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:34.039
I think that's why he decided to break out at
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00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:36.319
that point. Yeah, I don't want to just sit here anymore.
439
00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:38.960
I want to go out and be Batman. I can't
440
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:39.759
wait to talk about that.
441
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:42.759
But also like, if I sit here any longer, I'm
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going to give away that I'm Batman.
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444
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