#365 Inheritance, but not Inheritance!

WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to Python Bytes where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds.
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This is episode 365. Wow. Recorded.
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It's like we've been doing it for a year.
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Yeah. Recorded December 19th, 2023.
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Yeah. And I'm Brian Okken.
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Hey, I'm Michael Kennedy.
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And yeah, if we did it, if somebody listened to one a day from now on, they would be behind because we'll be way ahead of 365 by the time they finish.
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Still be awesome.
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Well, want to kick us off with something cool?
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Oh, before we kick it off.
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Yeah, go ahead.
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Let's say that this episode is sponsored by us.
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So please support us and other people.
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I'm going to talk about that a little bit later at the end of the show.
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But also check out all the courses that Talk Python Training.
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Check out the complete pytest course.
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You can be a Patreon supporter.
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And also, if you want to connect with us, one of the best ways to do it is through on Mastodon.
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And we're all on Fosstodon, or at least Michael and I are.
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At M. Kennedy, @brianokken, and at Python Bytes.
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Indeed.
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Hey, do I feel like I'm really fast, Brian?
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Like Neo in the Matrix?
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Mind-bendingly fast?
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Let's go with yes.
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Okay.
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I appreciate that.
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Because this, I just got fiber, gigabit fiber installed 30 minutes ago.
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I was hoping it wouldn't destroy the show, but it almost didn't make it, but it made it.
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Ooh.
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Nice.
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So hopefully that doesn't curse it, that something doesn't go wrong and it will crash.
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But 950 megabit down, which is fine, but 950 megabit up is glorious.
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We should speed up the playback speed when we release the MP3 so it sounds really fast.
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No, we're talking really fast because it's really uploading.
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Yeah.
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No, let's talk about Hatch because Hatch is awesome.
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Ofek is the maintainer and creator of Hatch.
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And boy, oh boy, has he gone big on his latest release, 1.8.0.
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So Hatch is like Flit, is like PDM, is like pip, ENV, and many of these other poetry.
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Others, if I'm leaving your version of this out, I apologize.
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But with version 1.8, this has gone in a bit of a different direction.
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You know, I had Ofek on the Python packaging panel.
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I think Steve Dower was there.
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Some other folks were there.
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Really interesting that there's this tension between should there be an app that manages
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Python environments with Python, or should there be a thing that manages the Python itself?
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Right?
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Kind of like PyEMV, for example.
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Right?
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So Hatch has gone in that direction of now Hatch manages Python, not just Python projects.
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And there's this thing to solve this problem in the form of PyApp.
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So PyApp is even maybe more awesome.
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PyApp is a runtime installer for Python projects written in Rust.
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And they can be, you ready for this?
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I'm so, so excited.
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Your Python app can be distributed as a standalone executable, a .exe or .app for users.
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What do you think, Brian?
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I'm very interested in finding out more.
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Now, this whole post is a little bit wordy.
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So let me jump into the omnivore version of it over here, which has a huge icon.
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So Ofek says, look, one of the things that's been a perpetual problem for Hatch and all the
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others I named is that Python itself is a dependency.
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So in order to use Hatch or any of these other tools or any apps, you have to say, well, go
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get Python and then get back to me and we'll start talking.
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Right?
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So he came up with this thing called PyApp that will create installers for the different platforms.
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Claims it's trivial.
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It's probably never trivial, but possible.
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Possible would be awesome even.
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And so starting with this releases, not only are the binaries available for every platform,
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but there are installers as in like install wizards on Windows and a DMG type thing, I'm
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guessing, or a PKG on macOS.
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That's awesome.
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If you have ever in the recent days tried to put something onto macOS or Windows, there's
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a whole nightmare of digitally signing around it, Brian.
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So you can't just get a binary and give it to somebody.
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The platforms will freak out.
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They won't let you open it.
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Like macOS will not let you open it unless you go into settings and say, allow me to run
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apps from untrusted developers.
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And Windows gives you this big, scary dialogue and tries to not run it.
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So that's why this next part-
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It's not developers that you don't trust.
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It's developers that Apple doesn't trust.
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Yes, exactly.
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You may or may not trust them, but that's a different conversation.
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It's a fair feature, but it makes creating desktop distributable apps super painful.
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So check this out.
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Halfway there.
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The installer for macOS is signed using a certificate.
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So you already, your apps built with this are already trusted.
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Honestly, I don't know how this is possible.
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I mean, I know why, how it works.
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I'm not sure that it, how it's allowed, but I'm all for it.
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So, because I have dealt with Apple and they are not lenient in any way, shape or form when
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it comes to stuff running on their platform.
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But so the installer for the macOS is signed using the certificate from the same account
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used to sign the official distributions of Python.
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So you won't get any security warnings or blocking.
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Thank you, Ederbin, for helping out with that.
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And Hatch itself with any good system is self-updating.
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So you can hatch self-update.
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What else I want to point out?
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There's also a new Python, like hatch space Python command group that will allow you to
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manage things.
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So you can show what you have installed.
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You can install different versions of Python, CPython and PyPy for those.
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It works with virtual environments.
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It has built in rough and Ruff format integrations.
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And traditionally, it's been somewhat slow to like activate and set up a virtual environment
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that's already previously been installed because it'll refresh and recheck that all of the dependencies
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are there and everything.
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So now it does a hash of those.
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And so only if the dependency statement doesn't match the hash, right?
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Basically, so it'll pre-compute all that stuff.
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So now it should be basically instant.
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So also some minor breaking changes around build defaults.
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And the new app build target is what I've been raving about.
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So, OFAC, you killed it.
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Can't believe it.
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It's awesome.
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Awesome.
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So Hatch has hashes?
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If you hash a hatch with hashling and, you know, like there's some kind of tongue twister
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in there we could do.
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I'm not doing it though.
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Gotta be.
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I'm excited about this.
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It's very cool.
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I definitely want to play with it.
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Yeah.
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Yes, indeed.
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Over to you.
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All right.
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Well, I'm not sure how long this has been out, but Hinnick has been promoting a new project
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that he's got called services.
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He's got called services or SVCS, which is short for services and pronounced services.
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And it is a, I think it could be used for more than web stuff.
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And it was for removing some of the web.
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Like your database and your cache and all sorts of stuff to an application.
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typically a web application.
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Typically a web application.
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But I think it could really be anything.
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But it's a flexible service locator.
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And one of the reasons why I haven't covered it yet on Python bytes.
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I don't think I have is because I didn't quite understand what it was doing.
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And it took me a while to get my head around it.
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But it's pretty cool.
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And Hinnick apparently realizes that it is a bit difficult to get your head around what
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this is doing.
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So he just recently released a video describing this project.
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So really great video describing services, what you can do with it, and also how to pronounce
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his name.
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He doesn't pronounce his last name, though.
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Apparently that's left for maybe episode two.
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But I love, I guess.
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Anyway, it's pretty cool.
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Actually, I'm pretty excited about it after watching it, watching the video.
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I thought maybe it wouldn't be for me, but especially for keeping services contained or the setting
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up services, looking them up within different parts of your application, and then getting them
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all cleaned up correctly at the end.
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That's kind of what it does, plus a whole bunch of other stuff.
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And one of the neat things is throughout all of this documentation, the documentation is
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amazing.
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Throughout all the documentation, he has examples in aiohttp, FastAPI, Flask, Pyramid, and Starlet.
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Nice.
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So the video is talking about Flask, but it's cool that he just already hit all the bases.
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Like, how do I do this in Starlet?
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Well, it's just a little different.
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Most of them, mostly they're similar, but little different ways to use it throughout the different
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applications.
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So it's pretty cool.
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He also mentions in the video that he took a really long time really talking about the
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terminology and the glossary of the documentation.
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And actually, I really appreciate this of somebody saying, okay, this is generally what I think
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of is what the meanings for all of these words are.
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And it's a lot of these words are, they're overused in the English language to begin with.
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And even in talking about programming, web programming, but things like what is the service?
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What is a resource?
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What is a dependency?
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Service layer.
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He goes through a whole bunch of different terms, what it means to him and probably to
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everybody else.
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But if you're unfamiliar with them, and even a decent discussion of dependency injection.
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So one of the things he talks about is that this is not really a dependency injection
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thing.
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It's inversion of control, but it's a little different than service.
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Service locators are a little different than dependency injection.
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And I kind of appreciate that discussion.
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It's pretty cool.
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So anyway, kudos to Hinnick for doing this and for helping us pronounce his name.
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Yeah, this looks cool.
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I definitely want to check this out.
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It's news to me, so I will be checking out.
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Cool.
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We have new leaders, Brian.
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We do.
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Yes.
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For the Python world, we have new leaders.
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And specifically, the steering council election results are in for next year.
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Okay.
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So for the 2024 term, we have Pablo Galindo Salgado.
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We've got Gregory Smith, Emily Morehouse, Barry Warsaw, and Thomas Werther's orders.
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So very cool to see them all leading the way.
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There's a lot of familiar faces there.
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So that's.
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That's pretty cool.
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I don't expect a whole lot of different from the year before, but here's the results.
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You can actually see in PEP 8105, you see everybody who was potentially a candidate, how many votes they got by people who are disenfranchised.
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I don't know what that means.
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Or the not the franchised voters, the one who are enfranchised, how many votes that they got.
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And you can put that all together.
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So this begs the question, like, well, how do you get on this list?
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You get on this list by being nominated by a core developer.
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So everyone on the list was nominated by a core developer.
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If you are a core developer, you can nominate yourself.
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So that could be the person you see here, because everyone I see, I think, is a core developer.
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Okay.
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But anyway, the results, the results are in.
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And we have those five folks.
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Welcome and congrats.
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Awesome.
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Nice.
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That's a good set of names, too.
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Yeah.
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So.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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Indeed.
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Well, there probably is some protocol around the election results, right?
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No, you could model it with classes, or you could functionally model it, like, in an immutable way, but I don't know about a protocol.
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Okay.
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We're just great at transitions on this podcast.
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The next, I want to talk about Python protocols.
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So there's an article from Carlos Vecina, I think, called Python protocols, defining a protocol and when to use it.
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And actually, this is something that I have, I've been meaning to play with for actually some years, and I haven't really done much with it yet.
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So I really appreciate this article.
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He's talking about protocols are a feature of Python that were added in Python 3.8.
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So really anything maintainable right now can use protocols.
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But they're, and you kind of, they're, mentally, I think of them kind of like class inheritance or mix-ins or abstract-based classes.
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And that's one of the things he talks about in this article is, is they are in that same similar space, but you use them a little different.
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And you might use them together with other forms too, like with mix-ins and abstract-based classes.
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So the article just goes through on how to define a protocol and really, and he's also discussed, also a decent tutorial on abstract-based classes and mix-ins as well, which is nice to kind of describe them all together.
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But the protocol thing is just sort of, let me see if I can find an example.
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So you inherit, you have a class that's inherited from protocol and you give it, you kind of give it function definitions, but don't fill in the body.
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So that's kind of what a protocol is.
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And then other classes that use the protocol derive from that, you know, from that protocol, from like in his example, there's a class called,
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explainable, that something that has an explain function.
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And so you would derive from explainable and then your new class would have, would, would be a instances of protocol.
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But all it really says is that you can, other places that use it for types and stuff can declare that they need some, need a protocol passed in or a explainable class.
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And then you can use anything that derives from that.
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So pretty cool.
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Yeah.
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Brian, let me jump in and just say one extra point.
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Brian, let me jump in and say, hey, what's awesome about this stuff is we've had duck typing like this.
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There's an assess fairness function that it has to call explain on the object passed in.
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And duck typing said, well, if it takes that, if you can pass it in there and it will run when you call explain on it, it must fit.
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Right.
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But the typing tools don't check.
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So like PyCharm, for example, would just go, well, it's a whatever.
00:16:04.920 --> 00:16:05.980
So good luck with that.
00:16:06.400 --> 00:16:20.700
But once you do this protocol stuff, if you say the function takes an explainable and you have explainable as a protocol, you can pass stuff in and it doesn't even have to derive from or be related to that protocol in a base class.
00:16:20.700 --> 00:16:28.680
Like anything that is passed in there, the type system will look at it and verify it hasn't explained, even if it's in a third party package and you don't control it.
00:16:28.680 --> 00:16:34.820
So it's like a way to project typing structure onto a dynamic thing that is not necessarily your code.
00:16:34.820 --> 00:16:35.280
It's wild.
00:16:35.280 --> 00:16:36.220
Oh, cool.
00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:38.280
I kind of had that a little bit wrong then.
00:16:38.280 --> 00:16:39.100
Awesome.
00:16:39.100 --> 00:16:40.200
You can drive from it.
00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:41.560
It gives you more information potentially.
00:16:41.560 --> 00:16:42.980
But it doesn't have to be.
00:16:42.980 --> 00:16:46.140
You don't even have to, which that's the totally wild aspect.
00:16:46.140 --> 00:16:48.000
That's what I think is really different for this.
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:48.460
Okay.
00:16:48.460 --> 00:16:49.320
Yeah.
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:51.420
Oh, awesome.
00:16:51.420 --> 00:16:53.000
That's pretty cool.
00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:54.100
No.
00:16:54.100 --> 00:16:54.640
Yeah.
00:16:54.640 --> 00:17:04.520
So clearly I haven't thoroughly read this article, but I do want to get into really getting my head around abstract based classes, mix ins and protocols and stuff.
00:17:04.520 --> 00:17:12.780
And I would say that though, because like your experiences in C++, mine also is in C++ and C# and all of those languages have these interface ideas.
00:17:13.340 --> 00:17:17.020
But they're put into the type system through inheritance.
00:17:17.020 --> 00:17:19.660
And so you can inherit from it and it does what you expect.
00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:20.680
And it seems the right thing.
00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:22.700
But what's weird is you don't even have to.
00:17:22.700 --> 00:17:23.920
That's what's weird about it.
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:24.800
Okay.
00:17:24.800 --> 00:17:25.060
Cool.
00:17:25.060 --> 00:17:26.960
Oh, awesome.
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.720
Now I definitely want to play with it more.
00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:30.960
Yeah.
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.200
Because I've kind of missed that aspect of C++ in Python.
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:34.520
Yeah.
00:17:34.520 --> 00:17:36.500
So nice.
00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:37.240
Anyway.
00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:43.960
Also, I'm assuming it's an AI generated image, but really cool image at the top of the article.
00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:46.680
I'm not sure what my opinion is about it.
00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:48.560
I'll ask GPT how I feel about it.
00:17:48.560 --> 00:17:51.100
It's hard to describe how I feel.
00:17:51.100 --> 00:17:52.380
So I'll, you know.
00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:54.180
Yeah.
00:17:54.180 --> 00:18:04.180
I'm actually sort of, I don't know, this is a tangent, but I've switched to, I was playing with like Bing as my primary search engine at work.
00:18:04.180 --> 00:18:08.840
I just, I don't know, a new computer, it just was there and I'm just going with it for a while.
00:18:08.840 --> 00:18:13.240
But everything I search is like, it gives me an AI generated answer first.
00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:16.740
And I'm like, I don't know if I like that very much.
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:17.720
Yeah, I know.
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:18.900
I know.
00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:19.680
Anyway.
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.480
Well, that's it for our main stuff.
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:23.460
Do you have any extras?
00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:27.060
I could have almost made it an extra, extra, extra this time.
00:18:27.060 --> 00:18:27.820
So yeah, sure I do.
00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:34.500
First of all, I've been wanting to say this several times and I'm usually like looking at my screen and see what I want to share and stuff.
00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:35.700
And I didn't have this anywhere.
00:18:35.700 --> 00:18:38.120
So I just pulled up Mastodon to remind me.
00:18:38.120 --> 00:18:43.040
There are tons of people interacting with us over on Mastodon and I've had some great conversations.
00:18:43.040 --> 00:18:46.440
And I want to, I'm sure you do too, Brian, want to follow people back.
00:18:46.660 --> 00:18:53.860
So there's, there's kind of a, at least for, I'll say these are Michael's Mastodon's conventions.
00:18:53.860 --> 00:18:56.400
You, you could take them for what you want.
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.540
I just made them up, but this is how I think about it.
00:18:58.540 --> 00:19:01.220
So people will follow me and I'm like, huh, did that person follow me?
00:19:01.220 --> 00:19:04.820
Cause they listened to the show and listened to Brian say, you should come join us and have a conversation.
00:19:04.820 --> 00:19:06.160
Hey, I'd like to follow that person.
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:10.840
But a lot of times they have no picture, no description, no web pages, no posts.
00:19:10.840 --> 00:19:13.700
You're like, yeah, maybe not next, you know?
00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:19.460
And so I'm just going to say, if you have a picture and a description, a description seems
00:19:19.460 --> 00:19:19.980
somewhat relevant.
00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:21.520
I will certainly follow you back.
00:19:21.520 --> 00:19:23.620
If you have posts, that's plus one.
00:19:23.620 --> 00:19:26.920
If you have a verified webpage, which is easy, another plus one.
00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:31.040
And a lot of people have private accounts who follow me.
00:19:31.040 --> 00:19:33.120
I'm like, why are you in social media?
00:19:33.120 --> 00:19:37.560
If you want a private account, I don't understand what this is because your profile is public.
00:19:37.560 --> 00:19:41.840
Just your posts are private, but the platform has a way to have private posts.
00:19:41.840 --> 00:19:42.580
I don't understand.
00:19:43.020 --> 00:19:46.260
So anyway, probably not going to get a lot of engagement.
00:19:46.260 --> 00:19:50.940
If you have a private account, just post private messages for things you don't want to see.
00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:55.880
So, and while I'm on the topic of Mastodon, I had a really nice and productive conversation
00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:59.200
with the PSF around my mask rant on PyCon.
00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:00.520
So that was nice over there.
00:20:00.520 --> 00:20:05.400
Some people weren't nice as they sent me, like not necessarily nice responses, but the PSF did.
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:05.920
And that was cool.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:06.940
That's nice.
00:20:06.940 --> 00:20:07.740
Yeah.
00:20:07.860 --> 00:20:08.180
All right.
00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:09.000
Next one.
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.320
Oh, wait, before you move on.
00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:14.580
I just want to add my two cents on the picture.
00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:21.240
I also prefer to be able to see who it is, but also primarily if the picture is something
00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:22.620
that they're using on other stuff.
00:20:22.620 --> 00:20:27.800
So like if a lot of people have a, their profile picture on their, like the profile picture
00:20:27.800 --> 00:20:34.520
on their blog and on their, and in their primarily a GitHub user and, and they have the
00:20:34.520 --> 00:20:39.820
same profile there, even if it's like a stylized something, but if it's the, if it's distinctive
00:20:39.820 --> 00:20:45.840
and the same everywhere, like glyph, for instance, has a, has a, a different thing for them.
00:20:45.840 --> 00:20:49.920
I I'm okay with that, but most people I think go with their picture.
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:50.960
I think it's the right answer.
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:51.920
Yeah.
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.680
When I say picture, I don't mean necessarily it has to be your picture.
00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:56.880
Just the fact that it's not the default icon.
00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:01.620
You've taken enough effort to put in something, even if it's just a picture of a triangle, I
00:21:01.620 --> 00:21:01.940
don't care.
00:21:01.940 --> 00:21:02.260
You know?
00:21:02.260 --> 00:21:04.500
Yeah.
00:21:04.500 --> 00:21:05.580
All right.
00:21:05.580 --> 00:21:08.600
Paul is asking in the audience, what is your secret?
00:21:08.600 --> 00:21:11.600
Okay.
00:21:11.600 --> 00:21:13.060
Well, we'll do this.
00:21:13.060 --> 00:21:19.360
we, earlier on, we were talking about how Michael's got a faster internet now, so we
00:21:19.360 --> 00:21:21.460
should make it really fast speed.
00:21:21.460 --> 00:21:27.620
and then somebody commented, wagrants, wagrants, commented, I played it at one and a half
00:21:27.620 --> 00:21:28.240
times speed.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:30.420
Then I got up to a live event.
00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:35.800
and all of a sudden Brian should sounded like he got drunk in one second.
00:21:35.800 --> 00:21:40.320
and so I said, Brian's secret is out.
00:21:40.320 --> 00:21:41.120
So nice.
00:21:41.120 --> 00:21:44.360
I'll just have another drink in my, Irish coffee.
00:21:44.360 --> 00:21:45.400
It's coffee.
00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:46.360
Trust me.
00:21:46.360 --> 00:21:48.120
Oh, all right.
00:21:48.120 --> 00:21:49.520
more extras.
00:21:49.520 --> 00:21:57.760
So, Dropbox spooks users with turning on new AI features that can almost automatically
00:21:57.760 --> 00:22:00.380
send your private documents to OpenAI.
00:22:00.600 --> 00:22:04.780
Now you have to interact with part of the site for it to happen, but it doesn't say, Hey,
00:22:04.780 --> 00:22:07.180
necessarily, cause you does, you touch this.
00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:10.440
We're now sending your social security number away.
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.320
but anyway, that's kind of.
00:22:13.320 --> 00:22:15.360
Well, I mean, yeah.
00:22:15.820 --> 00:22:22.660
So you can check that out on defaulted on if you're not subject to the GDPR, but defaulted
00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:24.120
to off if you are.
00:22:24.120 --> 00:22:26.980
So, you know, plus one for GDPR there, I suppose.
00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:28.820
So mine was turned on.
00:22:28.820 --> 00:22:29.900
Okay.
00:22:29.900 --> 00:22:32.880
So you have to go check to make sure that they're not sharing all of your.
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:34.060
Yes, exactly.
00:22:34.060 --> 00:22:35.480
And it's on by default for you, Brian.
00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:36.900
So you might want to check.
00:22:39.060 --> 00:22:41.000
The whole conversation it's on ours.
00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:46.680
The, the comment section of our second is like the top notch place for comments, I
00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:46.880
think.
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:47.980
So really good.
00:22:47.980 --> 00:22:49.220
Okay.
00:22:49.220 --> 00:22:50.360
Yeah.
00:22:50.360 --> 00:22:51.720
There's, it talks about how to go find it.
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:53.700
So anyway, this like made me think, you know what?
00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:54.860
I should really be a little more.
00:22:54.860 --> 00:22:58.220
I have, I have like three terabytes of data and Dropbox.
00:22:58.220 --> 00:23:01.780
So I'm like, maybe I should be a little more specific and intentional about where I put
00:23:01.780 --> 00:23:02.080
my stuff.
00:23:02.080 --> 00:23:05.700
So I went on this, this right on Mastodon, by the way, a bunch of people sent me all sorts
00:23:05.700 --> 00:23:08.340
of options of like, okay, if not Dropbox, then what?
00:23:08.340 --> 00:23:14.660
And I decided whatever I'm doing is probably good to have it end to end encrypted.
00:23:14.660 --> 00:23:16.460
Cause then I don't care what they try to do with it.
00:23:16.460 --> 00:23:16.720
Right.
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:17.860
Cause they can't decrypt it.
00:23:17.860 --> 00:23:18.380
Yeah.
00:23:18.380 --> 00:23:20.380
That, that solves a whole lot of problems.
00:23:20.380 --> 00:23:24.480
I don't, you care about the security, but it doesn't matter as much as if you're just
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:27.260
exposing files or leaking stuff or whatever.
00:23:27.260 --> 00:23:27.560
Right.
00:23:27.560 --> 00:23:32.720
So I decided to go, I already have a, a paid Proton account.
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:37.500
So all my private stuff, all my private documents and like my scans of things I want to save that
00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:38.300
might be sensitive.
00:23:38.300 --> 00:23:44.580
They're going to Proton drive where I have 500 gigs and it's already paid for and
00:23:44.580 --> 00:23:45.040
encrypted.
00:23:45.040 --> 00:23:46.760
There's async thing you can install.
00:23:46.760 --> 00:23:47.600
That's pretty excellent.
00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:53.220
I looked around and some people suggested next cloud, which is really interesting.
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:54.600
It's maybe more than I want.
00:23:54.600 --> 00:23:59.260
It's almost like a document calendar, everything self-hosted.
00:23:59.260 --> 00:24:00.460
Maybe do that next.
00:24:00.460 --> 00:24:01.640
Yeah.
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:08.060
Own cloud got like super owned just last week and is a similar self-hosted thing, which
00:24:08.060 --> 00:24:09.680
makes me a little nervous to self-host stuff.
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:12.720
I know there are people host it for you, but it's not next cloud.
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:14.060
It's a little bit indirect.
00:24:14.060 --> 00:24:16.280
So maybe violin.
00:24:16.280 --> 00:24:23.120
I don't know if you've heard of this, but they have encrypted, cloud storage and
00:24:23.120 --> 00:24:25.000
the end again, pretty nice.
00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:27.140
I think this is, is it British?
00:24:27.140 --> 00:24:28.540
I don't, I don't remember exactly.
00:24:28.540 --> 00:24:29.680
UG.
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:31.020
Not sure.
00:24:31.020 --> 00:24:36.400
but somewhere in Europe, this company, it looks pretty good.
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:41.340
I have not tried it, but, and, and encrypted there's ice drive, the next generation cloud
00:24:41.340 --> 00:24:41.640
storage.
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:43.420
Also, I think this might be the British one.
00:24:43.660 --> 00:24:44.020
Yeah.
00:24:44.020 --> 00:24:44.740
This isn't Wales.
00:24:44.740 --> 00:24:47.000
I mean, British, I mean, UK.
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:47.600
Sorry folks.
00:24:47.600 --> 00:24:49.560
So that's pretty interesting.
00:24:49.560 --> 00:24:53.700
And I think, I think I'm going to go with sync.com.
00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:54.720
Super simple.
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:59.260
All they do is sync and then encrypted for six terabytes.
00:24:59.260 --> 00:25:04.640
It's like 140 bucks a year or something like that, which is a lot, you know, versus 240 for
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:05.640
less than that in Dropbox.
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:09.400
Anyway, if people are in this zone of like, I'm looking for all this stuff.
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:14.940
Oh my gosh, like, what am I going to do regardless of whether you care about the Dropbox fiasco?
00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:16.940
Here's a bunch of options.
00:25:16.940 --> 00:25:17.900
Can people can pick?
00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:21.280
There was one comment in this whole discussion that was pretty interesting.
00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:24.540
I think it was in the ours, just ours technica thing.
00:25:24.540 --> 00:25:30.180
And it said, look, if you give your data unencrypted to somebody, another company, even if you trust
00:25:30.180 --> 00:25:34.480
them, you don't really necessarily control that anymore, especially if they decide to pass
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:34.920
it along.
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:38.800
So, somebody pointed out cryptometer.
00:25:38.800 --> 00:25:39.540
Have you heard of this, Brian?
00:25:39.540 --> 00:25:40.180
No.
00:25:40.180 --> 00:25:42.580
So cryptometer is cool.
00:25:42.580 --> 00:25:47.100
I have used something like it, but it's older and no longer supported, which makes me sad.
00:25:47.100 --> 00:25:49.500
So what you do is you run this app.
00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:51.880
It does like super strong encryption.
00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:53.560
You control the key, right?
00:25:53.560 --> 00:25:55.680
It's just like a thing you make up and don't give away.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:04.080
And then it will create a drive, a mountable drive on your Mac or on windows, like a D driver,
00:26:04.080 --> 00:26:05.120
E drive or whatever.
00:26:05.120 --> 00:26:06.220
And that thing is encrypted.
00:26:06.220 --> 00:26:10.360
So when you mount it with this software, it looks like a drive, but then when you unmount
00:26:10.360 --> 00:26:12.180
it, it becomes just an encrypted pile of files.
00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:17.640
So you put that in Dropbox, you put that in sync or whatever, and then no matter what happens,
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.000
they just get an encrypted blob of stuff.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:25.200
So things I super care about, I have encrypted in something either cryptometer or something like it.
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:32.900
On top of all the safety around the cloud drive and trust and whatever you might have there, like worst case scenario,
00:26:32.900 --> 00:26:37.520
they get a huge, hard, hard to decrypt a blob of stuff that they don't know the value of.
00:26:37.520 --> 00:26:39.860
And I don't know if it has Linux.
00:26:39.860 --> 00:26:41.140
Someone's asking does it have Linux.
00:26:42.280 --> 00:26:44.380
I think it might.
00:26:44.380 --> 00:26:46.180
Let's see.
00:26:46.180 --> 00:26:47.100
Mac.
00:26:47.100 --> 00:26:50.920
No, let's see if I go to download what it says.
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:52.060
Yeah.
00:26:52.060 --> 00:26:54.340
For people with downloads.
00:26:54.340 --> 00:26:56.380
Use your DMG.
00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:57.220
Yeah.
00:26:57.220 --> 00:26:59.820
Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, and iOS even.
00:27:01.100 --> 00:27:01.580
Yeah.
00:27:01.580 --> 00:27:02.920
So that's that.
00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:05.880
I think that it's a loss.
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:07.020
I mean, cool.
00:27:07.020 --> 00:27:13.580
But cryptometer would have been great as a rotten tomato sort of thing to rate different cryptocurrencies.
00:27:13.580 --> 00:27:15.180
I know.
00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:18.400
The word is taken.
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.600
I'm pretty sure this has been around before crypto became a thing.
00:27:22.600 --> 00:27:25.260
I'm not sure how old this is.
00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:26.500
Yeah.
00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:31.520
There's 17 pages of releases on GitHub from 2017.
00:27:31.520 --> 00:27:33.980
So yeah, they were ahead of their time in that.
00:27:33.980 --> 00:27:35.900
But yeah, this is super cool, Brian.
00:27:35.900 --> 00:27:39.700
Like you can just say, I don't really care that much about the security of where these files go.
00:27:39.700 --> 00:27:41.220
You're not getting them.
00:27:41.220 --> 00:27:43.740
Interesting.
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:47.380
So I suggest a sweet combination of these things.
00:27:47.380 --> 00:27:51.100
I'm going through like a super digital decluttering as part of this.
00:27:51.100 --> 00:27:51.980
And it's glorious.
00:27:51.980 --> 00:27:55.140
I'm having like a tech love affair with Notion.
00:27:55.260 --> 00:27:55.800
It's so good.
00:27:55.800 --> 00:27:59.540
But yeah, anyway, I'll leave it there.
00:27:59.540 --> 00:28:01.120
Maybe I'll come back and tell you more about this.
00:28:01.120 --> 00:28:08.880
Last thing for me, I'm doing the keynote at PyCon Philippines 2024 in February.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:09.980
How awesome is that?
00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:11.860
Slightly jealous, man.
00:28:11.860 --> 00:28:14.100
Somewhere I scroll down and over.
00:28:14.100 --> 00:28:14.720
Woo.
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:15.560
Yeah.
00:28:15.560 --> 00:28:16.640
Cool.
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:18.620
Three of us and I get to be one of them.
00:28:18.620 --> 00:28:19.200
So that'll be awesome.
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:20.400
Thank you for inviting me.
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:22.180
And if you're going to be there, I will see you there.
00:28:22.180 --> 00:28:22.840
Nice.
00:28:22.840 --> 00:28:23.660
Yeah.
00:28:23.660 --> 00:28:24.140
In February.
00:28:25.020 --> 00:28:25.300
Cool.
00:28:25.300 --> 00:28:27.000
Oops.
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:29.300
What were you for your extras?
00:28:29.300 --> 00:28:31.020
Well, I just deleted one.
00:28:31.020 --> 00:28:32.180
So sorry about that.
00:28:32.180 --> 00:28:35.520
But shift command T.
00:28:35.520 --> 00:28:38.060
Oh, shift commit.
00:28:38.060 --> 00:28:39.980
Oh, whatever.
00:28:39.980 --> 00:28:41.700
I'll just tell you guys about it.
00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:50.040
So this is the kind of time of year that some people like to donate some money to different
00:28:50.040 --> 00:28:50.980
people, different groups.
00:28:50.980 --> 00:28:55.960
I had the link up for the Python Software Foundation.
00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:59.360
So Python Software Foundation is not hard to find.
00:28:59.560 --> 00:29:04.780
So I would encourage people to consider giving some money to the PSF.
00:29:04.780 --> 00:29:08.020
So Django Software Foundation is doing a drive.
00:29:08.020 --> 00:29:09.960
So giving some money.
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:11.180
If you use Django, of course.
00:29:11.840 --> 00:29:15.780
If you enjoy Python Bytes, of course, you can check out Patreon.
00:29:15.780 --> 00:29:23.820
At Patreon, we do accept money for Python Bytes to help keep the show going.
00:29:23.820 --> 00:29:24.480
This is great.
00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:32.100
Also, I wanted to highlight as well just the idea that to just go on GitHub.
00:29:32.100 --> 00:29:37.640
So the different things you use on GitHub, like attrs, for instance, you can go down and
00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:39.140
you can sponsor this project.
00:29:40.340 --> 00:29:42.300
You can throw some money that way.
00:29:42.300 --> 00:29:44.840
pytest has a sponsor link.
00:29:44.840 --> 00:29:52.480
Pallets and Flask has a way to sponsor either all of Pallets or particular projects within
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:54.600
the Pallets program.
00:29:54.600 --> 00:30:02.680
And really, a lot of projects that you use every day have a sponsor of this project on GitHub.
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:04.740
So I think it'd be great, too, for people.
00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:08.400
If you have extra and you want to help out, I think it's a good idea.
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:14.320
Sometimes I help out different projects and I kind of shift it up every year and local
00:30:14.320 --> 00:30:14.800
things.
00:30:14.800 --> 00:30:17.740
And I think the things that I use.
00:30:17.740 --> 00:30:24.280
And somebody asked me once recently about some projects don't really need the money.
00:30:24.280 --> 00:30:31.020
And I guess, for instance, I really love having people support Python Bytes through Patreon.
00:30:31.020 --> 00:30:33.980
It's fun to have our community help support us.
00:30:33.980 --> 00:30:38.740
If you, in particular, don't donate, we're not going to disappear.
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:40.720
Michael and I are going to keep doing it anyway.
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:42.600
It is totally up to you.
00:30:42.600 --> 00:30:44.340
And definitely don't do it if it's a hardship.
00:30:44.660 --> 00:30:49.200
But I think it's a fun thing to do this time of year is to spread the love around.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:50.620
That's all I wanted to say.
00:30:50.620 --> 00:30:55.660
Indeed, I second that as well.
00:30:55.660 --> 00:30:59.540
That's kind of serious, though.
00:30:59.540 --> 00:31:01.020
Do you have something funny for us?
00:31:01.020 --> 00:31:02.080
Let's lighten it up.
00:31:02.140 --> 00:31:03.180
No, this is not funny.
00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:04.620
This is too close to home.
00:31:04.620 --> 00:31:06.580
You tell me how you feel about this.
00:31:06.580 --> 00:31:07.400
So here's the joke.
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:08.320
Here's the joke.
00:31:08.320 --> 00:31:09.960
So there's two red buttons.
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:11.980
Think Ren and Stimpy or something like that.
00:31:11.980 --> 00:31:13.420
And a huge, scary red button.
00:31:13.420 --> 00:31:14.580
You can press either of them.
00:31:14.580 --> 00:31:17.580
One of them says, pay $12.
00:31:17.580 --> 00:31:21.640
The other one says, admit to yourself, your dream is dead.
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.960
There's somebody sweating trying to decide which button to press.
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:27.600
And it's the domain renewal.
00:31:27.600 --> 00:31:28.900
Oh, yeah.
00:31:28.900 --> 00:31:29.520
Totally.
00:31:29.520 --> 00:31:40.220
This is way too close for home to home for me because I just transferred 25 domains from all the different places into hovers I talked about like a while ago.
00:31:40.220 --> 00:31:42.860
And I talked about all the name servers and all that.
00:31:42.860 --> 00:31:47.420
And there was a few where I'm like, God, is the dream dead or do I just move this?
00:31:47.420 --> 00:31:50.720
So how many are you using still out of those?
00:31:50.780 --> 00:31:55.960
Well, lots of them are to like protect people from doing crappy stuff.
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:57.780
For example, I've talked by thon.com.
00:31:57.780 --> 00:31:59.920
I don't technically use it.
00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:01.840
It redirects to talk by thon.fm.
00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:05.280
But if I don't have it, someone will get it.
00:32:05.280 --> 00:32:06.760
And then all sorts of badness.
00:32:06.760 --> 00:32:08.320
Like there's a bunch of these cards.
00:32:08.320 --> 00:32:10.060
I would say half of them fall into that realm.
00:32:10.060 --> 00:32:10.560
Okay.
00:32:10.560 --> 00:32:14.900
And then maybe another third I'm directly using.
00:32:14.900 --> 00:32:19.360
And then there's the whatever the balance, the one six that's left is the dream could be dead.
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.460
Or it could be not there yet.
00:32:21.460 --> 00:32:22.140
Not realized yet.
00:32:22.140 --> 00:32:22.460
We'll see.
00:32:22.460 --> 00:32:27.480
I had about eight that I was not really using last year.
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:35.640
And I admitted that about half of those are not going to go anywhere and let them expire.
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:36.120
Let them go.
00:32:36.120 --> 00:32:39.340
Although, I mean, the domain companies don't make it easy.
00:32:39.340 --> 00:32:41.880
You're like, okay, I'm just going to let it expire.
00:32:42.140 --> 00:32:43.060
But you get like emails.
00:32:43.060 --> 00:32:44.720
No, it's going to go.
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:45.780
Oh, it's gone.
00:32:45.780 --> 00:32:48.780
But we're going to save it for you for a couple more months.
00:32:48.780 --> 00:32:51.460
And you get a whole bunch of guilt emails.
00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:52.560
But yeah.
00:32:52.560 --> 00:32:53.480
Anyway.
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:54.060
Yeah.
00:32:54.060 --> 00:32:54.860
Yeah, exactly.
00:32:54.860 --> 00:32:58.320
I have one real quick sad story to round this out, Brian.
00:32:58.320 --> 00:32:59.000
Okay.
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:02.700
A friend of mine and I decided we're going to write some iPhone apps right when the iPhone came out.
00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:05.560
Like 2007 or whatever it was.
00:33:05.560 --> 00:33:09.360
And he had the clever idea of like, let's get a domain.
00:33:09.360 --> 00:33:10.400
I probably did it together.
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:10.820
I don't know.
00:33:10.820 --> 00:33:13.800
Got the domain iPhone.ly.
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.460
And we worked on stuff for like a year.
00:33:18.460 --> 00:33:21.040
Because we didn't know we're going to build.
00:33:21.040 --> 00:33:21.860
We'll just come up with this.
00:33:21.860 --> 00:33:22.720
We'll put stuff there.
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.520
Never really came up with stuff.
00:33:25.520 --> 00:33:27.020
It looked like there was nothing on the horizon.
00:33:27.020 --> 00:33:29.480
We're like, you know, after three years, the LY, it was like the FM.
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:30.520
It was like kind of expensive.
00:33:30.520 --> 00:33:31.600
Like, ah, just let it go.
00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:35.200
A week later, somebody says, hey, I'll give you $5,000 for that domain.
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:39.680
So I shoot my friend like, hey, don't let it expire yet.
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:41.280
Let's do this instead.
00:33:41.280 --> 00:33:42.960
He's like, it expired last week.
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:43.620
Like, no.
00:33:43.620 --> 00:33:44.500
Oh, no.
00:33:45.820 --> 00:33:46.500
Oh, well.
00:33:46.500 --> 00:33:47.380
So it goes.
00:33:47.380 --> 00:33:51.760
So somebody could have paid you $5,000, but they instead got it for like $20.
00:33:51.760 --> 00:33:53.480
Yeah, for like $20 or something.
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:56.800
I'm sorry to laugh at your pain.
00:33:56.800 --> 00:33:58.160
No, it's okay.
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:01.120
I mean, like, I'm telling you, this is not a joke.
00:34:01.120 --> 00:34:05.120
Admit to yourself your dream is dead or pay $12 for the rest of your life every year.
00:34:05.120 --> 00:34:06.200
That's where you are.
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:08.600
No, it's good.
00:34:08.600 --> 00:34:09.220
It's a good joke.
00:34:09.220 --> 00:34:11.260
And people can hopefully laugh at it.
00:34:11.260 --> 00:34:11.660
Yeah.
00:34:11.660 --> 00:34:15.780
Everybody, most people that listen to this podcast probably are feeling this.
00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:16.620
Yeah.
00:34:16.620 --> 00:34:17.960
All right.
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:18.400
All right.
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:21.340
Well, I'm feeling good about our year's worth of show every day.
00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:22.640
Yeah.
00:34:22.640 --> 00:34:23.480
365.
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:24.540
Pretty cool.
00:34:24.540 --> 00:34:24.880
Yeah.
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:25.880
All right.
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:26.960
Talk to you later.
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:27.800
Yeah.
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:28.220
See you.