Podcasting for Creators Over 50: SEO, Guesting & Audience Growth with Jen Hardy

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Welcome to Communication Connection Community, the Podcasters Podcast.
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This podcast takes a deep dive into modern-day communication strategies in the podcasting space.
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We chat with interesting people who make the podcasting and speaking spaces exciting and vibrant.
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We also dive into the podcasting community with news, updates, latest trends and topics from this ever-evolving space.
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Strap in, it's going to be one amazing ride.
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Let's dive into today's episode.
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When I started my podcast in 2019, it was partly out of necessity, but also because I realized that I could make a difference.
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I'd already done a lot of research figuring out about are there shows like this that are out there?
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How can I have impact for people who are wanting to improve their speaking?
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At that time, my podcast was all about speaker training and helping people be better on stage, be better with voice and volume and content, all those kinds of things.
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And then the podcast evolved.
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And I think that was the biggest thing that I realized is podcasting is an evolution.
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It's like business.
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There's an evolution in business, there's an evolution in podcasting as well.
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Our guest today was on the front lines, not very early, but certainly within the last seven years when she launched her podcast.
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Jen Hardy is her name.
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She's the CEO of Hardy House Media and a serial content creator.
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She's the host of the fabulous Over 50 podcast, which is a two-time podcast of the year winner.
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The podcast celebrates the humor, challenges, and the joys of aging.
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Her YouTube channel, The Jen Hardy Show, has garnered over 2.5 million views.
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And that was just in its first eight months.
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So huge congratulations to that.
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I'm sure we'll be talking to Jen about how she got to those numbers and how it's been for her.
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She's earned two community partners managers through YouTube, and she recently won Broadcast of the Year with the Women in Podcast Awards.
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She's a sought-after podcast guest, a very successful podcast host, and an avid blogger as well.
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Jen, welcome to the podcast.
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Oh my gosh, Carl.
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Thank you so much.
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I'm excited to be here.
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I'm so thrilled you're here and congratulations on all that success.
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When we start talking about 2 million or 2.5 million views or downloads or whatever, people's ears perk up and go, huh?
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How did that happen?
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So that is a good question.
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And there's a longer answer to that.
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I'm not going to throw you the bone and say, hey, how'd that happen?
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Boom, away you go.
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We'll get into that step by step here.
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But of all the things that you could have done, because you've been podcasting for at the recording of this episode, it's January 2025.
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You've been podcasting for, is it six years now?
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Almost exactly six years.
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What led you to podcasting of all the things six years ago you could have been doing?
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What made you sit up and say, hey, podcasting, I'm going to take you by storm?
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I did a completely different thing that I'm doing now.
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So I have seven children, and I also have health issues.
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And there wasn't a lot out there for moms with health issues.
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It's kind of everyone's dirty little secrets.
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And I thought, you know, we need to shed some light on this.
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I was um bedridden for a while and in a wheelchair.
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And parenting seven children and homeschooling them wasn't easy.
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So I had put together a lot of systems to make it work.
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And I thought, you know, these need to be shared.
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And the one way I could do that was podcasting.
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So I actually had a hospital table next to my bed and I set up a little boom arm and a microphone in my computer and did it right from there.
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Wow.
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Which is phenomenal unto itself.
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And it's funny that you mentioned it's not funny.
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I mean, the health issues.
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Most people think of mom as the cure for all health issues, not thinking that mom is the one that's going to be having the health issues.
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So kudos to you for taking something that was, you know, very important and tumultuous in your life and creating a system and realizing that this is something that needs to be shared and needs to be out there.
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Oh, thanks.
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Yeah, it really does.
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Um, but after several years of doing it, it really got to me because here's a lesson in there.
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When you talk about being sick all the time, you feel sicker.
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And I realized I had to stop.
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I had all the information out that I needed to get out.
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I had 120 episodes, and I didn't shut down that podcast.
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I just rebranded it.
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So those episodes are still there.
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But now it's fabulous over 50 because I needed to celebrate something.
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And can I tell you and your audience, I feel 10 times better talking about being fabulous than I did talk about being sick.
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There is a lot to do with mindsets.
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And I'm glad we're talking about this because I always say the mind is a terrible thing to waste, or is it a waste is a terrible thing to mind.
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But, anyways, the mind is just we put so much garbage into it.
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And even podcasters, which is one of the reasons why we do what we do here at Podcast Solutions Made Simple, is because we want to make sure that we're giving you not only the right information, but helping you with the mindset to understand that whether it's a podcast, whether it's a business, whatever it is, that you want to do it with the right intention.
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Whatever is, you know, they say the longest distance traveled is or the hardest distance traveled is ear to ear.
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You want to make sure that this thing, this thing in your noggin is sound or you're taking the steps to make it sound.
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Otherwise, it's just going to be a continuous struggle all the time.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And stay, find positive things to focus on because that's what has kept me going, honestly.
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Yeah.
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You absolutely have to.
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Full disclosure, one of the things that, and speaking of health being very important in mindsets, and this is just a just a personal note, and I do want to find out more about your journey through podcasting.
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On a personal note, I haven't slept in five years, or at least that's what my sleep therapy says.
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I haven't done much of in the last five years.
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But man, now that I'm in that therapy place and getting the help that I need, I'm sleeping better, I feel better, I have better concentration, I have better mindset, I have better clients, I have all these things that are happening because my health has improved.
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So don't let your health wane and keep the mind healthy as well, and do whatever you need to do to do that.
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So kudos to you for doing that.
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When you started your podcasting journey, of course, you hit that first, you know, 2 million downloads overnight, right?
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It happened within your first 10 episodes.
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Oh, yeah.
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It was so easy.
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I just picked up a mic and just people flocked to me because um, yeah, no, no, that is not how it happened.
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I know it's funny because people are like, oh, it's an overnight success.
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It is not.
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It was actually 10 years in the making.
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I started blogging 10 years ago and learning.
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And if you look at my, I've left my I've left my social media up.
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It was so ugly.
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It was so bad.
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Um, I mean, I got some days one view on my website, some days five views on my website.
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You know, being a creator is not a sprint.
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It is definitely a long, long game.
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So if you're listening, don't get sad if you just have low numbers in the beginning because you're building the foundation.
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That's how I look at it.
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You know, you've got to have a solid foundation before you build the house.
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And your first couple of years are that foundation that you know you need to set and learn where you want to go and how you're gonna do it and what your style is, and the things that you thought were so important in the beginning may not turn out to be what's important to you later.
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I like how you said that it's not a sprint, it is a long game because so many people think of it as I'm going to launch a podcast, I'm going to be this overnight success, I'm going to have the I quite often refer to it as like the Justin Bieber effect.
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You know, I will be discovered instantaneously.
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Someone's going to throw a boatload of money at me, and I'm going to have the next big sought-after podcast, Joe Rogan type, maybe not the same content, but that hugely successful show that people are just going to want to invest in.
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It doesn't usually happen that way.
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It is a journey.
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And part of that journey is you really getting in tune with what's your show about?
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What's the purpose of your show?
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Why are you even doing this podcasting thing?
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A few things that you need to do right off the top.
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Absolutely.
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And you can start off with millions of downloads in the very beginning.
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Do you know how?
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If you're totally famous.
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And there you go.
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But if you have a name, right?
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But the rest of us, we just need to do our time.
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But the nice thing is you still get to do it.
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And that's the beautiful thing about podcasting, right?
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Anybody can do it.
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So, you know, you come up with your plan, you have your idea, you just get started and do what you're gonna do.
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And the rest will come.
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It's a lower barrier of entry now, too, than it was when you were starting six years ago.
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Because firstly, doing video six years ago was almost, I don't want to say impossible, but it was the big shows that were doing it because it was massive production investment to do that.
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And microphones were, yeah, they existed, but they weren't like what they are today.
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It's a lower barrier of entry.
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Even editing podcasts now, a lot of it's done with a lot of AI tools.
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People are embracing AI a little differently.
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It's more prevalent than it was even two years ago, let alone six years ago.
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So it's a different game, but you definitely need to, I think, look at the fact that, and I'm glad you mentioned this, that Oprah Winfrey, if I can use her as an example, I don't know how many podcast shows or extension shows that she has, but a lot of her dues were paid in her early years when people were telling her she'd never make it as a journalist, she'd never be successful in that space.
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And then she went on to become this very successful woman, having the successful network, successful television show.
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It didn't happen.
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So if you're in that spot where you're, I'm not famous, or even if you do have a fairly robust network or what you think is a robust network, it still might be a journey for you.
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It still might be a Jen, as you mentioned, it might be that two-year journey.
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So your sprint will be two years, which is not a sprint, it's more of a long game.
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Um, things that you've learned along the way, you know, from the first show to pivoting the show, things that you've learned.
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Let's say the top three things that you've learned as you've been growing the show and growing your credibility in the space.
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Okay.
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Number one, people are going to tell you all kinds of things about how they can make you successful.
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And if you use either one of these, we'll just edit this out.
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Anyone who tells you that they are going to 10x anything, you need to leave.
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Anyone who tells you you're going to make six figures with your podcast, you just walk away.
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It's like right.
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I can get you six figures in the first six months.
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When I started, several people told me that.
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Oh, if you just pay my thing, if you just join my course, if you just do whatever, you'll get six figures in six months.
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Those are lies.
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Unless you're famous, your podcast is not going to make you six figures.
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Now your business may make you six figures, and your podcast may lead people to your business, and that is a brilliant idea.
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But that's number one, I think, and it just pains me to watch new podcasters hear those things.
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Number two, just start, just do it, just get going.
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There's no amount of setup that's gonna prepare you for podcasting.
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I mean, a little bit, yes, do a little research, but you know, don't wait years.
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I know people that have waited years to for everything to be perfect.
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It's like having kids.
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Never gonna be perfect, just you know, do it.
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And number three, be patient, don't live and die by those numbers.
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It's hard not to.
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It is really hard not to, but just do it.
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And after a couple years, if you have zero listens, then reconsider.
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But if people are listening, you know, even 50 people, that is a room full of people that you're talking to.
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So don't get disheartened when other people say things.
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And can I say, Carl, sometimes other people, well, embellish their own numbers and then it makes us feel bad.
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So you don't know what someone's real numbers are unless you see them yourself.
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Oh my goodness.
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So I'm making notes because that's typically what I do, because I do want to respond to these, but scribbling things down and going, yep, yep, yep.
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These are things we've talked about on the show.
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But every now and again I'll have people who have listed the show and they'll they'll reach out and they'll say, Um, yeah, so I want to start a podcast.
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So how do I get to six figures overnight?
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Or or um, how do we get those million downloads or those uh 10,000 downloads a month?
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How it's like, well, firstly, let's one step at a time.
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I totally agree with the whole, hey, if you just give me a boatload of money, basically everything you've ever made, put it in a big bag and send it to me.
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I'll get you the six figures, seven figures with your podcast overnight.
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Let me tell you what, you know how people get six figures for their podcast?
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They sell people how to get six figures for their podcast.
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That is how they do it.
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And my husband and I laugh every time we see it because I don't know.
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It's yeah, it's a lot.
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But to your point, if you already have some celebrity status, you're already famous, yes, of course, you are very well positioned to monetize because that's what we're talking about.
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We're talking about monetization of a podcast.
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Now, think about this logically.
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You're fairly new in business, not you, Jen, but if you're listening, you're fairly new in business.
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Even if you're six years, ten years in, that's still fairly new.
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You're not necessarily internationally famous.
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Do you think that 10,000 listeners are going to find you overnight, or will it take some time to get those listeners?
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Not only that, think about this logically.
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What if you could get in front of, and I'm glad you mentioned this, Jen, is that what if 50 people is the magic number for you?
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Because the nice thing about podcasting is it's so we can streamline it so much or have it so niche that the 50 people you're talking to, those are the 50 people, or those are the 75 people, or even the 35 people who you need to talk to right at this moment in time to help you build your show, those are the ones who are going to end up doing business with you, following you, becoming a part of your network that'll help you grow and expand.
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Exactly.
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And I don't run the same page on that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And and it's just it's hard for people to wrap their brain around because they hear all these other numbers.
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But yeah.
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And understand that if people do have those numbers, they didn't start with those numbers.
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Speaking of starting, I have a colleague who actually purchased a podbean account.
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I'm gonna say somewhere around 2017 still pays for it every month, and I'll tell you what they've done with it.
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Nothing.
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So they're paying for an account they haven't done anything with, but they're still saying I should do that podcasting thing.
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But to your point, Jen, but I want it to be perfect.
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It will never be perfect, it will never, ever, ever be perfect.
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As a matter of fact, I quite often will use the analogy the definition of perfection is a series of imperfections.
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And I take music as an example.
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When you listen to some of the most beautiful music on the planet that's been written over the last several hundred years, you strip it down and you put two, I don't know how musical you are, Jen, but you put two notes together that should never be together, it sounds horrible.
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But you put everything else around it, all of a sudden, oh, now it starts to sound better.
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So the definition of perfection is a lot of imperfection that leads into it.
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So I'm gonna say allow yourself to be imperfect and just start because it will never be perfect, it'll never be as good as you expect or want it to be, because there will always be something else to make it better.
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Would you agree with that that you should always be the next level?
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Absolutely.
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And as you're doing something, you're growing and learning, right?
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So I don't know any podcasters, even the top podcasters that I've talked to, they are embarrassed by their first couple episodes.
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And most of them leave them up just so that people can see where they've come from, right?
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But because you don't know what you don't know, and you won't know those things until you start.
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That's just the bottom line.
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Yeah, start, definitely start.
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Patience.
00:15:59.919 --> 00:16:04.720
I quite often say, I wouldn't make a very good doctor because I don't have enough patience.
00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:07.039
There's a play on words there.
00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:15.360
But you definitely need to be patient in this space because firstly, understand, and as you're learning from Jen, that Jen's podcast has evolved.
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:19.200
Your podcast will evolve as you're launching, as you're growing.
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:29.200
But then also the podcast industry has evolved from when Jen started, from when I started, from when I met a guy by the name of um, I don't know if you know him, Sam Crowley.
00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:30.720
Have you met Sam Crowley?
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:36.559
Sam Crowley has a show called Every Day is Saturday, and he's been doing podcasting since podcasts were in diapers.
00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:41.440
So probably around 2005, 2006, something like that, started a show.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.919
But the thing is, is that he stuck with it.
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:48.480
And one of the things that he shared is that you know what, you really have to stay the course.
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:54.399
And the reason why he's successful is because he's consistent with it, he puts content out all the time.
00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.159
And yes, does he have a good following?
00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:56.559
Yes.
00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:02.720
Those first few episodes, though, if you could go scroll all the way through his catalog and listen to them, they weren't that great.
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:03.840
They really weren't.
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:04.480
You know what?
00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:07.200
He's stuck with it, and that's what's uh that's what's happened.
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.119
And numbers are what numbers are.
00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:13.680
I attune it to as a speaker, and I think you'll appreciate this, Jen.
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:23.359
If I could guarantee you, Jen, that I could get you in front of 50 people every week, and that's your ideal audience, and there's a good chance that let's say even two or three of them will end up being clients with you.
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:25.440
Would you take me up on that offer?
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:27.279
That's a pretty good offer, isn't it?
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:28.559
It's a pretty good offer.
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:32.640
But when we start talking about it in podcasting numbers, people go, oh, 50 downloads.
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.400
That's nothing.
00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:35.680
I don't want 50 down.
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:37.359
I want 5,000 downloads.
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:37.839
I want that.
00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:45.119
But Jen, if you don't mind me asking you, and again, your numbers are showing a huge success, but at what was the turning point for you?
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:51.599
What was it that you started to see these larger numbers and this huge traction start to take root?
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:52.880
Where was that turning point?
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:56.640
Because it clearly wasn't within the first week or two or in the first five episodes.
00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:57.359
Where was it?
00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:58.480
But that's a good question.
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:05.279
Okay, so about four years in, but you know, I started growing my presence like online, right?
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:06.480
Really growing it.
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.319
Started speaking in places, started doing different things, got my name out there.
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:14.000
Because really, we have things in the physical world, right?
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.440
You and me, we go to we go to in-person meetings, we do all these things.
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:21.279
But then we've got this this whole internet life that we lead, right?
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:24.240
If there was no electricity, that life would be taken away.
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:29.440
So anything that's out there, a lot of it is Google.
00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:31.279
A lot of it is search, right?
00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:35.920
A lot of it is, I mean, if Google doesn't know who you are, people aren't finding you.
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:52.000
So if you think about that, and this is a new thing for me since I've been on YouTube, and YouTube is also a search engine, which people don't realize a lot of times, but you need to position yourself to be out there and doing things so that you're kind of all over the place, right?
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:58.799
If you have a business and you have a website, you know you need link backs to your, you know, you need links to your website from other people and all those things.
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:02.079
And so you start growing and building all of that.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:07.680
And then you become higher up on the search, and then people look for you, your everything comes up, right?
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:09.359
Your podcasts and everything else.
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:15.599
And just being engaging with people and letting them know you have a show is surprising.
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:24.160
And speaking of that, because people assume that their family and friends are all gonna listen, and right there you've got 50 downloads.
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:27.839
Carl, how many of your family and friends listen to your show?
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:29.680
You might not want to answer that.
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:31.920
Well, I'll tell you how many of mine.
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:32.880
None.
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:33.680
None.
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.000
Yeah, and even my husband didn't listen.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:37.759
And I will tell you a story.
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:42.559
We were watching a show about you take the chicken, Julia Child.
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:44.400
I have to say that phrase and then I can do it.
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:44.720
Okay.
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:49.519
So there was a thing about her, and she started the show, and her husband wouldn't even watch.
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:51.599
He wouldn't even watch, he wouldn't go, wouldn't watch.
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.119
And I was watching that with my husband, and my husband's like, What a jerk, what a horrible husband.
00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:56.640
Why doesn't he even watch her show?
00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.319
And this was last year.
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:03.920
I had been podcasting for five years, and I said, Hey babe, how many of my episodes have you listened to?
00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:07.839
And his face fell because he didn't.
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:09.920
So after that, he started listening.
00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:16.079
But I'm telling you, so that's the thing is that you can't rely on those people that you think are the people that are going to listen.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:23.839
So you have to get out there, be a guest on other people's show, have other people on your show that, you know, they won't always help promote it.
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:32.000
They maybe usually won't help promote it, but that's okay, you know, and be sure that you're just you're out there so that people can find you.
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:42.960
And this is why it's a long game, not a short game, because there isn't a set pattern or system or methodology to do this because it's still the Wild West in the podcasting space.
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:48.720
Even though it's been around over 20 years, there's still a lot of, you know, trailblazing that can be done.
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.079
But to Jen's point, though, you should be guesting on other shows.
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:54.799
You should be, you know, and don't rely on those.
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:58.240
As she said, don't rely on family and friends to listen to your show because quite often they won't.
00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:04.559
And if they're a friend, there's a good chance that if they're they're probably a colleague first and then a friend, right?
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:10.240
Somebody you've known a while, that you can say, hey, we're friends, but we actually met through business.
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:14.000
And those are the folks who are probably more likely listening to your show.
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:21.279
And also understand that, as I said, this doesn't happen overnight, but it doesn't happen by just wishing on a star.
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:24.720
There are some steps you need to take, things you need to do.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:32.960
You need to make it an intention that, for example, if you want to guest on more shows, don't just say it and do nothing about it.
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:48.400
Say, you know what, I want to guest on 12 shows this year, 20 shows this year, a show a week, whatever it is, and do it because if you just say it, goal setting one on one, if you just say it and don't write it down and don't take the steps to do it, it will not happen.
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:49.519
Absolutely.
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:50.799
Action.
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:52.880
Action is the word of the day.
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:53.200
Yes.
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:54.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:57.599
Um what would you do differently if you were starting out today?
00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:59.440
You know, that's a really good question.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:08.000
Honestly, personally, I would probably do a lot the way I did it, but I didn't do it like a lot of other people do.
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:10.880
So start with what you've got.
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:12.559
Start cheap.
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:14.880
Because what how many people pod fade?
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:15.119
Right?
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:17.039
So many people pod fade after three episodes.
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:22.319
A lot of people think you have to go out and spend thousands of dollars and buy all the equipment and do all the things and then they hate it.
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:23.920
So start.
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:25.039
See if you like it.
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:26.240
Fall in love with it.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:28.640
Then make those decisions.
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:32.319
I think people get hung up with the mic thing way too much.
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:34.000
That is not your number one thing.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:36.880
Quality content is your number one thing.
00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:40.240
So do your research, find out who wants to know what you want.
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:42.799
The one thing, what I totally do different.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:47.039
One thing, absolutely, getting back to Google and searching.
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:49.759
Find out what are people searching for.
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:54.960
Go to trends.google.com, go to whatever, and what are they looking for?
00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:00.480
And make sure you're answering the questions that people are asking with your podcast.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.640
Now, you may have a real niche podcast.
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:06.880
It may be only, you know, 200 people are asking that question, and that's fine.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:08.079
But what is the question?
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:09.440
Or what are the questions?
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:10.559
Answer those.
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:15.839
If you're just randomly putting stuff out, you can do that, but you're going to be found less often.
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:17.680
I think you're hitting the nail on the head.
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:29.920
We can't stress enough that Google being the powerhouse that it is, that you know, we really need to figure out how it is that we're being searched for, but what is it that people are wanting?
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:37.200
And again, if you don't know how to do this, find someone or have someone on your team who can help you figure this out.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:44.319
Because I think by the time you're coming into the podcasting space, you probably have at least a VA that can help you do this.
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:46.960
If you're fairly new in business, don't even consider podcasting.
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:48.079
You don't need a podcast.
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:49.039
You need clients.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:51.200
That's what you need when you're first starting out, right?
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:52.000
You need clients.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.680
Then you can start figuring out, okay, well, I want to market to the right people.
00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:00.480
Then you can start looking at podcasting, and then you can start doing the things that Jen just mentioned.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:02.240
But you definitely, I think, need to do that.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:10.720
So kudos to you for looking at it and saying, Yeah, I would definitely look at the, you know, the Google side of things and ask myself that question.
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.079
Another question for you.
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:15.440
Not that I like to itemize my questions or anything, as I just did.
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:21.200
Podcasting has evolved a lot since you got in it, since I got into it.
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:24.480
Where do you see it headed in the next, let's say, two to five years?
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:33.119
What's the in your experience and in the success that you've had, where do you see podcasts going, either for you personally or as a whole or both?
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.400
So I'm really torn about my answer because it makes me sad.
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:42.240
Because to me, a podcast is something that you listen to on your phone or with earbuds.
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:43.599
It is audio.
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:49.359
That is what a podcast is in my head, but it is evolving to video.
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:55.279
And I believe that it will mostly be consumed by video, unfortunately.
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:56.720
Honestly, unfortunately.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:01.200
Because what the great thing is about podcasts is you can do it while you're cleaning the house.
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:05.759
You can do it while you're running, you can do it while you're driving, you can listen to podcasts anywhere.
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.000
And I think there is such a beauty in that.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:17.119
But I think because of shorts on YouTube and TikTok and all these things, people are used to just these constant images shifting in their eyesight, right?
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:22.960
They just have to and it feeds this need for your brain to see these things.
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:25.039
And I think it's moving to video.
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.839
And I can tell you, I hate sharing numbers.
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:33.359
I hate it so much, but I will share just this month's numbers just to give you an example.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.319
My podcast that I have had forever.
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:40.720
Its numbers used to be in the thousands, they're now down to the hundreds.
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:44.880
But my video podcast on YouTube is over 200,000 a month.
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:48.079
So, you know, that's what people want.
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:59.519
So, not only though, and I would not stop audio podcasting, do not stop audio podcasting, because the people that really need to listen, and especially business people, they're busy.
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.920
They are busy, they're not the ones scrolling.
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:09.519
So if you're trying to target those people, you know, and even if you do a video podcast, it needs to be also audio, I think.
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:11.200
That's my personal whatever.
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.519
Um, but I think a lot of it's gonna go to video.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:17.279
You are speaking my language, I am feeling your pain.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.680
Um, exactly the same way.
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:25.039
I mean, again, I spent 25 years in radio broadcasting, so my love is audio, it has been forever.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:27.119
My love is music, which is an audio medium.
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:29.519
But you're right, a lot of things are shifting to video.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:34.799
But I always say, without audio, there is no video.
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:38.160
So you might be thinking, oh, video, video, video, but think about it.
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:49.839
If you were to strip away the audio from your video and only have the video, you would not have a podcast or a video series, you would only have your face doing different contortions while your lips move around.
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:52.480
So always think about there is always audio.
00:26:52.480 --> 00:27:03.839
And what's interesting though, as we piggyback on this, even though people are engaging in podcasts more on YouTube, because YouTube, yes, it's a search engine, but it's also a massive directory of files.
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:06.319
Let's face it, let's break it down to nuts and bolts.
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:06.880
That's what it is.
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:09.359
It's a massive directory, lots of files.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:19.200
Interesting to note that most people, even though they're engaging YouTube for their podcast engagement, a lot of people aren't watching the video, they're listening.
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:29.359
So they have the YouTube on, or they've called up YouTube on their phone, and they're going for their run or their walk or they're making the meal or whatever it is with YouTube on, but they're not focused on the video.
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:33.279
So, to your point, definitely keep doing the video, the audio rather.
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:43.839
I believe that there will be a this is maybe a prayer, maybe a hope, that there will be a resurgence or a bit of a rebirthing of the audio, because I think you're right.
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:46.400
We are so busy and we're so pressed for time.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:54.559
And we don't necessarily need the visual all the time, but we do need that interaction that can be engaged.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:57.759
One of the reasons I got into podcasting was because of its portability.
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:00.079
So video is not as portable as audio.
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:02.559
So think of it as from a portability standpoint.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:10.400
And I like how you mentioned too, like if you're working with you know high-level CEOs, they're not watching your content, they're listening.
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.720
They're not on YouTube, they don't have time to watch videos.
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:13.519
Are you kidding me?
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:17.279
If they are engaging in content, it's on another platform.
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.440
So don't dismiss audio.
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:20.400
So thank you so much.
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:28.720
We're on the same page on that, even though it's you know, it's to our benefit, but also to our dismay, shall we say?
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:34.000
Yes, that the audio is being eroded, but I still think that we have to think about it.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:41.680
Audio is probably the most crucial part of a podcast, even if it is a video podcast, the audio is still probably the most important part.
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:44.240
Well, and if you think about it, things are cyclical, right?
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:45.519
Think about records.
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:48.160
Well, we called records, people now call vinyl.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:49.599
For what, 30 years?
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:51.440
They weren't cool, and now they're back.
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:56.400
So don't stop posting your audio podcast because then when it comes back in, guess what?
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:59.119
You're gonna have hundreds of episodes that people can, you know.
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:04.480
And to your point, you know, the high-level people, they're not sitting there, they don't have hours to spend on YouTube.
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:09.200
If that's your target, you definitely want to get it in audio.
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:12.720
They have staff that's scouring YouTube for them.
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:13.119
Yes.
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:15.759
Basically, is what we're saying there.
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:24.400
Oh my goodness, Jen, I could talk to you forever, but I think it's just a a reason to check in again six months to a year from now and say, hey, what's what's new with you?
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.240
And and continue to celebrate our success.
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.559
I say us because we're both being in the trenches, successful in what we do.
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:32.400
How can people reach out to you though?
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:38.720
What's the best way for people to connect with you to learn and engage, whether it be your podcast, your YouTube channel, or or what have you?
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:39.839
What's the best way to do that?
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:42.880
If they just go to my website, everything's right there on the homepage.
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:44.160
They can find anything they want.
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:48.799
It's jenhardy.net, N-E-T, someone stole the com.
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:49.359
That's fine.
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:50.799
Um, jenhardy.net.
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:55.599
And we'll make sure that's posted in the show notes for you to check that out.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:30:01.440
Before I turn you loose, Jen, to go either record another episode or do something phenomenal.
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:03.039
I'll give you the final thought.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:04.319
Oh, the final thought.
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:06.160
Okay, here's the deal.
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:09.039
If you want to start a podcast, start it.
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:13.759
And right now, people don't want pretty, beautiful content creation.
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:15.359
They want to hear you.
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:19.519
It does not have to be a million-dollar production, just get it going.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:29.119
If you've started and your numbers are low, but you have numbers, you're winning because people are listening and you just keep going and learn from what you're doing.
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.960
And if you are growing and everything is huge, congratulations.
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:35.839
It took a lot to get there, and we're proud of you.
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:37.039
That's a great way to leave it.
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:39.599
Jen Hardy, thank you so much for being my guest today.
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:40.240
Thank you.
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:41.680
Thank you so much for letting me be here.
00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:42.480
It's been amazing.
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:44.799
And hey, thank you for being a part of the show today.
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:46.079
So glad you can join us.
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.960
Believe it or not, I can't work this magic by myself.
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So thanks to my amazing team, our audio engineer Dom Carillo, our Sonic Branding genius Kenton Dobrowolski, and the person who works the arms, all of our arms actually, our project manager and my trusty assistant Julovell Tiongco, known to us here simply as July.
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If you like what you heard today, let us know.
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You can leave us a comment or review or even send us a voice note.
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And if you really liked it, we hope you'll share it with your friends and your colleagues.
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If you don't like what you heard today, well, please feel free to share with your enemies.
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And if you know of someone who would make a great guest on the show, let us know about it.
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You can get in touch with us by going to our show notes where all of our connecting points are there, including the links to our website, LinkedIn, and Facebook as well.
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And if you're ready to be a guest on podcasts, or even start your own show, let's have a conversation.
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We'll show you the simplest way to get into the podcasting space and rock it.
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Because after all, we're Podcast Solutions Made Simple.
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Catch a game next time.