Reading the Right: Inside Conservative Media with Howard Polskin

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Speaker 0: I thought I was smart.
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Speaker 0: I thought I was well informed, but I was missing half
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Speaker 0: the picture that was being pushed out to the American public.
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Speaker 0: It took Charlottesville in August of two thousand and
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Speaker 0: seventeen to push me over the edge when Trump said, you know, there were
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Speaker 0: good people on both sides.
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Speaker 0: And that's when I said, that's it.
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Speaker 0: The more information you have, the more points of view you have, the better
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Speaker 0: off you are.
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Speaker 1: Let's get right into it.
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Speaker 1: Welcome back to What Do We Do Next.
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Speaker 1: Every weekday, while most of us are reaching for coffee, Howard Polskin
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Speaker 1: is already deep inside a world that most of us would avoid, scrolling through
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Speaker 1: dozens of right wing media outlets so you don't have to.
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Speaker 1: He's not doing it out of masochism.
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Speaker 1: He's doing it because he believes that understanding what the other side is actually
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Speaker 1: reading, thinking, and feeling is one of the most important things a journalist can
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Speaker 1: do right now.
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Speaker 1: Howard spent decades at the highest levels of American media, senior roles at CNN,
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Speaker 1: Sony Corporation of America, and the Trade Association for Consumer Magazine Industry.
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Speaker 1: In two thousand seventeen, it did something that nobody else was doing.
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Speaker 1: He launched The Writing, the world's only newsletter dedicated to analyzing right
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Speaker 1: wing media for mainstream and progressive audiences.
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Speaker 1: Every day, he curates fifteen headlines to cap fifteen headlines that capture
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Speaker 1: what the conservative world is thinking, and he sends it to thousands of subscribers
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Speaker 1: around the globe.
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Speaker 1: His research has been cited by outlets worldwide, and in April twenty twenty six,
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Speaker 1: he appeared on Fast Politics with Molly Jong Fast.
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Speaker 1: He writes for m s n m s now dot com,
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Speaker 1: Mediate, and the Columbia Journalism Review.
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Speaker 1: He's a Syracuse I can't talk to any more coffee.
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Speaker 1: He's a Syracuse Newhouse grad, a board adviser there, and has judged
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Speaker 1: the prestigious Mirror Awards since two thousand and six.
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Speaker 1: Today, he's here to pull back the curtain on a parallel media universe, and
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Speaker 1: what does it mean for all of us?
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Speaker 1: So thanks for coming on the show, Howard.
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Speaker 0: Pleasure to be here, Molly.
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Speaker 1: Hey, man.
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Speaker 1: When you reached out to me and you gave me your pitch, I was
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Speaker 1: like, the least I can do is have you on my show.
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Speaker 1: I feel the abuse you're taking daily just reading this stuff.
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Speaker 1: I mean, you're out here doing the Lord's work and I don't say that
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Speaker 1: lately, but I I really am impressed by that.
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Speaker 1: And a lot of times, like, you know, my dad and I have differing
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Speaker 1: political views, but I I've been telling him for years that I bet if
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Speaker 1: we sat down, we'd probably agree on ninety percent of it, but you're just
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Speaker 1: getting the wrong sound bites and so am I, you know.
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Speaker 1: And so how do we get to that place?
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Speaker 1: And now it feels even more impossible to ever get to that conversation, to
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Speaker 1: be honest, after last year.
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Speaker 1: But we're not getting anywhere.
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Speaker 1: Like, we're not we're not get we're just yelling at each other.
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Speaker 1: We're not getting anywhere.
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Speaker 1: And so, you know, what was that moment for you that you were like,
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this?
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Speaker 1: Because starting this in two thousand seventeen I mean, I guess we were still
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Speaker 1: in, you know, in the throes of everything, but
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Speaker 1: what what was that moment?
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Speaker 0: It started,
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Speaker 0: the morning after Trump was elected in November two thousand and sixteen.
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Speaker 0: I was like I woke up and I was like, how did we get
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Speaker 0: to this moment?
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Speaker 0: Is this real?
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Speaker 0: Like, when are when are the adults gonna come back and say this has
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Speaker 0: been a big freaking mistake?
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Speaker 0: Just kidding.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 0: Yeah.
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Speaker 0: Just kidding.
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Speaker 0: Do over.
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Speaker 0: Mulligan.
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Speaker 0: Let's have another road.
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Speaker 0: Let's count again.
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Speaker 0: And, no, it was a fair and square election.
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Speaker 0: And I, right away, started thinking,
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Speaker 0: you know, what shaped people's opinions that brought them to this?
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Speaker 0: And very quickly, within a few weeks, I started yeah.
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Speaker 0: I'd never been to fox news dot com.
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Speaker 0: I'd never been in the National Reviews website.
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Speaker 0: I'd never went to Breitbart.
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Speaker 0: And so I started going to these places, and it was this whole
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Speaker 0: alternative universe.
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Speaker 0: I thought I was smart.
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Speaker 0: I thought I was well informed, but I was missing half
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Speaker 0: the picture that was being pushed out to the American public.
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Speaker 0: And so I started
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Speaker 0: in early two thousand and seventeen just on a on a Word
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Speaker 0: document.
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Speaker 0: Every day, I'd go to these sites and I'd write down some of the
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Speaker 0: outrageous headlines.
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Speaker 0: And I started doing that for about a month, and then I looked at
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Speaker 0: it and I go, wow.
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Speaker 0: This kinda tells a story.
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Speaker 0: I wish someone could push that to me, and no one
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Speaker 0: was doing it.
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Speaker 0: So I thought maybe this is something I can do.
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Speaker 0: But it took Charlottesville in August of two thousand
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Speaker 0: and seventeen to push me over the edge when Trump said, you know, there
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Speaker 0: were good people on both sides.
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Speaker 0: And that's when I said, that's it.
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Speaker 0: I'm going out.
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Speaker 0: I'm I'm gonna do it.
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Speaker 0: And I launched in September seventeenth two thousand seventeen.
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Speaker 0: And if it wasn't for my sisters and a few close friends, I would
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Speaker 0: have had no subscribers for the first
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Speaker 1: six months.
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Speaker 0: Yeah.
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Speaker 0: So, you know, I but I just kept I just kept doing.
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Speaker 0: It was kind of a journey of discovery, and gradually, it started picking
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Speaker 0: up,
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Speaker 0: Steam.
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Speaker 0: Luckily, in my background, I know how to promote
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Speaker 0: brands, and I was savvy on how to get some attention.
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Speaker 0: And I knew how to, research audience trends,
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Speaker 0: And that started getting the attention, and very slowly, it started picking up.
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Speaker 0: And here here we are today.
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Speaker 1: And and how many subscribers do you have now?
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Speaker 0: I never give the exact number, but let's just say it's not
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Speaker 0: enough that we could be having this discussion on my yacht off the coast
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Speaker 0: of Central America.
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Speaker 1: Damn it, Howard.
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Speaker 1: Get on.
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Speaker 0: A thousand.
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Speaker 0: But there are there are thousands.
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Speaker 0: There are thousands.
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Speaker 0: I have thousands and very influential people,
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Speaker 0: people high in government, media, politics.
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Speaker 0: It's it's a good it's a good list, and it keeps me on my
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Speaker 0: toes.
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Speaker 0: Yes.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing.
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Speaker 1: Listen.
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Speaker 1: We're in this society where, like, everybody thinks quantity beats quantity or
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Speaker 1: quantity beats quality and it does not.
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Speaker 1: Like, the right thousand people reading your list that can actually make impact is
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Speaker 1: much better than a hundred thousand people deleting it first thing in the morning.
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Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
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Speaker 1: So, you know, well and you understand that better than anybody.
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Speaker 1: And that that's kinda my question.
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Speaker 1: Was it your background that helped you have the audacity, if you will, to
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Speaker 1: launch it?
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Speaker 1: Or was it just like you hit a wall and you're like, I don't
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Speaker 1: care if this works or not.
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Speaker 1: I just need to do this for myself.
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Speaker 0: Well, one of the things that's and maybe you've had this as well, Molly.
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Speaker 0: It's kinda like, well, what makes me the expert?
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Speaker 0: What's you know?
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Speaker 0: But if you just kinda do it every day Yeah.
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Speaker 0: You know, call yourself an expert.
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Speaker 0: And, and, you know, that that was that was part of it.
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Speaker 0: And also because no one else was doing it, so I thought, well,
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Speaker 0: I can claim this turf for myself.
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Speaker 0: Also in my background, what was very important, I had
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Speaker 0: worked in the nineties at CNN.
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Speaker 0: I ran the the New York public relations office.
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Speaker 0: And at the time,
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Speaker 0: CNN part of Turner Broadcasting, and they were the biggest client of,
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Speaker 0: Nielsen ratings.
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Speaker 0: And they had a big research department.
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Speaker 0: And part of my job that I that I that that I invented was
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Speaker 0: every week we put out a report on, the
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Speaker 0: number of viewers to all the cable networks, including the Turner
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Speaker 0: ones.
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Speaker 0: And I worked very closely with the analysts at Turner Audience Research.
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Speaker 0: So I became very comfortable analyzing audience data.
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Speaker 0: And so when I launched the writing, no one was measuring
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Speaker 0: the traffic to right wing websites, whether how big they were, who was
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Speaker 0: big, and who was growing, and who was small and and smaller.
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Speaker 0: So I figured out how to do that, and that's become
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Speaker 0: my calling card.
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Speaker 0: And I do that every month.
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Speaker 0: I release a report, and that gets me enormous attention
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Speaker 0: around the world.
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Speaker 0: And it's used by, you know, influential people
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Speaker 0: and media outlets around the world.
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Speaker 1: That's super cool.
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Speaker 1: Do people from the right ever reach out to you to wanna
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Speaker 0: Yes.
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Speaker 0: They do.
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Speaker 0: Yes.
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Speaker 0: And and and I will say, at first,
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Speaker 0: I was I did this kind of anonymously.
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Speaker 0: It can't I didn't put my name on it.
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Speaker 0: I was I was nervous, and I didn't know what the response would be,
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Speaker 0: if I would be attacked, if I would be trolled, if I'd be doxxed.
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Speaker 0: But after doing it for about a year and a half, I'd I'd put
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Speaker 0: a kind of a feisty three hundred word introduction
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Speaker 0: into every newsletter that I put out, and the newsletter is for free.
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Speaker 0: And that,
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Speaker 0: and and no one attacked me.
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Speaker 0: And I would get and it turned out people really liked my the attitude
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Speaker 0: and the the humor I brought in, and and and that was fine.
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Speaker 0: And some people on the right actually reached out to me.
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Speaker 0: And they would for instance, folks at the Heritage Foundation, which
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Speaker 0: you would think I would never ever ever have a conversation with them.
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Speaker 0: They said, if you're in Washington, why don't you stop by?
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Speaker 0: And I I've got a daughter who lives in Washington, and I went there.
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Speaker 0: And to this day, I'm friends with them.
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Speaker 0: The I'm invited to the Christmas party every year.
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Speaker 0: Even though almost everything that they write and stand for,
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Speaker 0: I'm opposed to.
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Speaker 0: But I like to say if we have to have these discussions.
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Speaker 0: It's it's important and try and have an open mind.
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Speaker 0: Also, some people on the right, you know, sometimes I need
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Speaker 0: an email of someone in the White House or a right wing politician,
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Speaker 0: and
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Speaker 0: the people on the right will give it to me.
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Speaker 0: So that's been that's been very not very nice.
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Speaker 0: Now some peep some outlets on the right want nothing to do with me.
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Speaker 0: They think, you know, that I'm an evil person, and, you know, that's
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Speaker 0: how it'll be sometimes.
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Speaker 0: I accept that.
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Speaker 1: Can't win them all.
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Speaker 1: You know?
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Speaker 0: That's right.
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Speaker 1: But I would imagine with you ranking these right wing websites, then they got
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Speaker 1: your your attend or you got their attention.
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Speaker 0: They Yes.
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Speaker 0: I do.
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Speaker 0: Absolutely.
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Speaker 0: And I keep a I I I do it very fairly.
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Speaker 0: So for instance,
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Speaker 0: a few years ago, I had research that showed that InfoWars
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Speaker 0: was growing exponentially.
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Speaker 0: And I wrote that.
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Speaker 0: And sure enough, Alex Jones boasted about it in a tweet.
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Speaker 0: Look at the writing session.
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Speaker 0: I find that Truth Social's audience is growing a lot
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Speaker 0: many months.
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Speaker 0: So even though I'm I think what, President Trump
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Speaker 0: puts on Truth Social is vile,
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Speaker 0: awful, awful stuff.
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Speaker 0: When I show there's growth on his site, it's newsworthy,
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Speaker 0: and I do not fudge the numbers.
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Speaker 0: I I I call balls and strikes the way I see it,
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Speaker 0: and you can't you can't fake those numbers.
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Speaker 1: No.
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Speaker 1: They they they they wanna fake the funk, but you can't do that.
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Speaker 1: Yes.
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Speaker 1: And that leads me to my next question.
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Speaker 1: How do you stomach that?
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Speaker 1: Because there's just stuff and and admittedly, I probably have to stop reading these
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Speaker 1: headlines in the morning because before, like, eight AM and copy it,
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Speaker 1: the Irish Catholic filters
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Let me tell you, I will say horrible things and then I quite often
00:11:17.755 --> 00:11:19.755
Speaker 1: delete them around nine thirty.
00:11:19.755 --> 00:11:23.755
Speaker 1: And so I definitely have I'm trying to curve my ingestion of the news
00:11:23.995 --> 00:11:27.360
Speaker 1: in the morning because it just it just sets me off, you know?
00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:30.320
Speaker 1: And it makes me cry a lot because I just, you know, it's hard
00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:31.360
Speaker 1: for me to understand.
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:33.840
Speaker 1: How do you stomach this stuff?
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.280
Speaker 1: Like, how do you is it because you have this bigger mission of, like,
00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:40.695
Speaker 1: I'm here to do a job and not to, like, react to this?
00:11:40.695 --> 00:11:43.815
Speaker 1: Like, how would you or have you just grown a thick skin over the
00:11:43.815 --> 00:11:44.375
Speaker 1: years?
00:11:44.375 --> 00:11:45.335
Speaker 0: Well, put it this way.
00:11:45.335 --> 00:11:45.655
Speaker 0: Alright.
00:11:45.655 --> 00:11:48.055
Speaker 0: So you're a let's say you're a scientist.
00:11:48.055 --> 00:11:51.010
Speaker 0: You're studying the Ebola crisis in Africa.
00:11:51.010 --> 00:11:52.130
Speaker 0: You get the vibes.
00:11:52.130 --> 00:11:54.370
Speaker 0: You look at it under a microscope.
00:11:54.370 --> 00:11:57.490
Speaker 0: Do you go and puke in a corner, or do you study it and
00:11:57.490 --> 00:11:59.570
Speaker 0: look like, how do we tackle this?
00:11:59.570 --> 00:12:01.170
Speaker 0: How do we control this?
00:12:01.170 --> 00:12:03.375
Speaker 0: What can we learn from looking at it?
00:12:03.375 --> 00:12:07.375
Speaker 0: So I I kinda take the same approach very clinically
00:12:08.255 --> 00:12:10.415
Speaker 0: and see, like, what are they saying?
00:12:10.415 --> 00:12:12.255
Speaker 0: Is there a point there?
00:12:12.255 --> 00:12:16.255
Speaker 0: So one of the things that I've that I've learned, for instance, and this
00:12:16.470 --> 00:12:20.470
Speaker 0: may not make me popular with some of your audience is that for
00:12:20.470 --> 00:12:24.470
Speaker 0: years, it was like what would set off the right would be drag queen
00:12:24.870 --> 00:12:27.190
Speaker 0: story hour in public libraries.
00:12:27.190 --> 00:12:27.430
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:12:27.430 --> 00:12:28.470
Speaker 1: They really get pissed off.
00:12:28.470 --> 00:12:32.470
Speaker 0: And and then I was like, well, you know, they might have a
00:12:32.605 --> 00:12:33.005
Speaker 0: point.
00:12:33.005 --> 00:12:33.405
Speaker 0: You know?
00:12:33.405 --> 00:12:35.405
Speaker 0: Like, why do we have to do that?
00:12:35.405 --> 00:12:39.405
Speaker 0: It's just gonna piss off the right and put you know, push people who
00:12:39.405 --> 00:12:42.525
Speaker 0: are maybe in the middle, political middle.
00:12:42.525 --> 00:12:46.490
Speaker 0: It might push them more to the right because they don't agree with drag
00:12:46.490 --> 00:12:47.370
Speaker 0: queen story hour.
00:12:47.370 --> 00:12:49.850
Speaker 0: It seems like that's something that you should give up.
00:12:49.850 --> 00:12:53.850
Speaker 0: So but but, you know, there are certainly I
00:12:53.930 --> 00:12:57.930
Speaker 0: come across a lot of posts that are vile,
00:12:57.975 --> 00:13:00.295
Speaker 0: racist,
00:13:00.295 --> 00:13:01.495
Speaker 0: anti yeah.
00:13:01.495 --> 00:13:05.495
Speaker 0: Sexist, anti intellectual, anti elitist,
00:13:06.375 --> 00:13:08.135
Speaker 0: anti cultural.
00:13:08.135 --> 00:13:12.135
Speaker 0: So it can be upsetting, but it's it's easier to
00:13:12.570 --> 00:13:15.770
Speaker 0: to digest in a on a website.
00:13:15.770 --> 00:13:19.770
Speaker 0: So for instance, if you watch Fox News prime
00:13:20.090 --> 00:13:24.065
Speaker 0: time, it's harder to have that pounded into your head.
00:13:24.065 --> 00:13:26.625
Speaker 0: And, you know, every now and then, I'll I'll you know, when I'm on
00:13:26.625 --> 00:13:29.985
Speaker 0: the road in my car, I'll I'll put on a right wing podcast, and
00:13:29.985 --> 00:13:33.025
Speaker 0: I'll be in traffic, and I wanna turn the podcast off.
00:13:33.025 --> 00:13:37.025
Speaker 0: And it's, like, being imprinted on my brain, and I can't
00:13:37.140 --> 00:13:37.780
Speaker 0: stand that.
00:13:37.780 --> 00:13:41.780
Speaker 0: So it's much easier to take in small bits on on
00:13:42.020 --> 00:13:44.260
Speaker 0: websites.
00:13:44.260 --> 00:13:48.260
Speaker 1: What do you think that we're getting wrong about
00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:50.875
Speaker 1: the right?
00:13:50.875 --> 00:13:54.235
Speaker 0: That everything coming from the right is wrong.
00:13:54.235 --> 00:13:58.235
Speaker 0: So you've gotta look under the sometimes you gotta look a little bit closer.
00:13:58.475 --> 00:14:00.075
Speaker 0: So I'll give you good points.
00:14:00.075 --> 00:14:04.075
Speaker 0: So Trump's take on NATO, you know, that that
00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:07.400
Speaker 0: European nations aren't paying their fair due and stuff like that.
00:14:07.400 --> 00:14:10.120
Speaker 0: Well, there's some part of that that's correct.
00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:14.120
Speaker 0: So, you you know, a lot of Western European countries are
00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:18.200
Speaker 0: very generous in their in their social nets.
00:14:18.425 --> 00:14:22.425
Speaker 0: You know, you can have, you know, the the whole month of August off
00:14:22.585 --> 00:14:24.905
Speaker 0: or or December off and stuff like that.
00:14:24.905 --> 00:14:27.465
Speaker 0: Well, the government's paying for that and helping that.
00:14:27.465 --> 00:14:31.465
Speaker 0: And it's like, well, maybe they should put more in the
00:14:31.545 --> 00:14:35.545
Speaker 0: defense budget and don't have to be super, super
00:14:35.670 --> 00:14:37.030
Speaker 0: generous like that.
00:14:37.030 --> 00:14:39.830
Speaker 0: So there is kind of a point to that.
00:14:39.830 --> 00:14:43.830
Speaker 0: And whether you agree with it or not, it's important to take a step
00:14:43.830 --> 00:14:47.235
Speaker 0: back and try and understand it.
00:14:47.235 --> 00:14:51.235
Speaker 0: You know, my knee jerk reaction to most things Donald Trump says is
00:14:51.235 --> 00:14:53.635
Speaker 0: to just dismiss it all.
00:14:53.635 --> 00:14:57.635
Speaker 0: But I realized there's sometimes a kernel of truth
00:14:57.715 --> 00:15:01.715
Speaker 0: somewhere in there, and it's the way he he goes he goes about it
00:15:01.850 --> 00:15:04.330
Speaker 0: and explaining it.
00:15:04.330 --> 00:15:05.770
Speaker 1: I mean, that makes sense to me.
00:15:05.770 --> 00:15:09.770
Speaker 1: Like, you know, my my dad is a retired commander in the
00:15:09.770 --> 00:15:13.445
Speaker 1: navy and, you know, Vietnam vet, and he's a very intelligent guy.
00:15:13.445 --> 00:15:17.125
Speaker 1: And so it's just like I find myself absolutely befuddled as to how he
00:15:17.125 --> 00:15:19.045
Speaker 1: could be on board with this stuff.
00:15:19.045 --> 00:15:23.045
Speaker 1: And so I'm always trying to find, like, where is this kernel of truth
00:15:23.205 --> 00:15:23.845
Speaker 1: like you said?
00:15:23.845 --> 00:15:24.660
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
00:15:24.660 --> 00:15:25.860
Speaker 1: Like, you know, yeah.
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:29.860
Speaker 1: Like, NATO hasn't been everybody hasn't been paying their fair share
00:15:30.020 --> 00:15:30.740
Speaker 1: of the dues.
00:15:30.740 --> 00:15:31.380
Speaker 1: They haven't.
00:15:31.380 --> 00:15:32.900
Speaker 1: And we've been taking on a lot of that.
00:15:32.900 --> 00:15:35.540
Speaker 1: Now does that mean that he should do what he's been doing?
00:15:35.540 --> 00:15:36.180
Speaker 1: I don't know.
00:15:36.180 --> 00:15:40.180
Speaker 1: But, like, you you're right to just completely ignore any
00:15:40.315 --> 00:15:44.075
Speaker 1: sort of truth or validity because it's coming from the right is not gonna
00:15:44.075 --> 00:15:46.635
Speaker 1: help us because it's the same thing they're doing with us.
00:15:46.635 --> 00:15:49.755
Speaker 1: They think we, you know, they think we all want everybody to be transgender
00:15:49.755 --> 00:15:53.755
Speaker 1: with purple hair and, like, it's like, you know, you know, the comments people
00:15:53.835 --> 00:15:54.155
Speaker 1: leave me.
00:15:54.155 --> 00:15:55.900
Speaker 1: They're like, well, it's just because you're on welfare.
00:15:55.900 --> 00:15:57.420
Speaker 1: I'm like, bro, I create jobs.
00:15:57.420 --> 00:16:00.860
Speaker 1: Like, you it's like, do you actually believe the things that you're you think
00:16:00.860 --> 00:16:04.860
Speaker 1: every single liberal is like a radical left scum with no job?
00:16:05.020 --> 00:16:08.540
Speaker 1: Like, where are you even getting these talking points?
00:16:08.540 --> 00:16:09.340
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
00:16:09.340 --> 00:16:11.685
Speaker 1: Like, I don't I don't understand.
00:16:11.685 --> 00:16:12.005
Speaker 1: You know?
00:16:12.005 --> 00:16:16.005
Speaker 1: So it's like we're both in infected with the same disease.
00:16:16.565 --> 00:16:16.805
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:16:16.805 --> 00:16:20.805
Speaker 0: Well, that's why I try and I try and listen better rather than
00:16:21.045 --> 00:16:21.685
Speaker 0: talk over.
00:16:21.685 --> 00:16:25.685
Speaker 0: And I and I also realize I I have not for a few years
00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:29.870
Speaker 0: tried to convince anyone on the right that my about my view.
00:16:30.750 --> 00:16:31.950
Speaker 0: I I I you know?
00:16:31.950 --> 00:16:35.550
Speaker 0: And usually, when I meet someone on the right and, you know, from a
00:16:35.550 --> 00:16:39.550
Speaker 0: right wing, website or news outlet, I'll always
00:16:39.845 --> 00:16:43.845
Speaker 0: say, we're probably not gonna agree on,
00:16:43.845 --> 00:16:46.885
Speaker 0: on a lot of stuff, on almost anything politically.
00:16:46.885 --> 00:16:48.565
Speaker 0: But do we have a cup of coffee?
00:16:48.565 --> 00:16:50.070
Speaker 0: You know?
00:16:50.070 --> 00:16:53.830
Speaker 0: So that I usually try and do it that way, and we get we
00:16:53.830 --> 00:16:57.190
Speaker 0: usually get we get to a better place that way.
00:16:57.190 --> 00:17:01.030
Speaker 1: Are there any people on the right whose, like, commentary or writing that you
00:17:01.030 --> 00:17:05.030
Speaker 1: not necessarily agree with, but you like or you
00:17:05.265 --> 00:17:06.545
Speaker 0: respect?
00:17:06.545 --> 00:17:06.745
Speaker 0: You
00:17:06.625 --> 00:17:07.345
Speaker 1: know what I mean?
00:17:07.345 --> 00:17:08.625
Speaker 0: Well, a few people.
00:17:08.625 --> 00:17:10.305
Speaker 0: So,
00:17:10.305 --> 00:17:14.305
Speaker 0: as a writer, the the the the the writer who I
00:17:14.385 --> 00:17:18.000
Speaker 0: admire the most for his wordsmithing
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.000
Speaker 0: is probably the most extreme, one of the most extreme columnists out there.
00:17:22.080 --> 00:17:25.280
Speaker 0: And that's Kurt Schlickter of town hall.
00:17:25.280 --> 00:17:26.320
Speaker 0: He scares.
00:17:26.320 --> 00:17:29.200
Speaker 0: He scares me his point of view.
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:31.200
Speaker 0: He's a lawyer.
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:33.555
Speaker 0: He's an Iraq war vet.
00:17:33.555 --> 00:17:36.435
Speaker 0: He's a former stand up comedian.
00:17:36.435 --> 00:17:38.435
Speaker 0: He's written nonfiction books.
00:17:38.435 --> 00:17:39.635
Speaker 0: He's written books.
00:17:39.635 --> 00:17:41.075
Speaker 0: He's prolific.
00:17:41.075 --> 00:17:45.075
Speaker 0: It's like he makes me look like a slacker.
00:17:45.395 --> 00:17:49.395
Speaker 0: And he can turn a phrase like no one else can.
00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:52.360
Speaker 0: But when you read the stuff I mean, your the first reaction when you
00:17:52.360 --> 00:17:55.800
Speaker 0: read the stuff is like, oh, how can he say that?
00:17:55.800 --> 00:17:58.760
Speaker 0: But when you take a step back, you go like, man, this guy's got
00:17:58.760 --> 00:17:59.560
Speaker 0: talent.
00:17:59.560 --> 00:18:02.425
Speaker 0: You know, there his his talent is undeniable.
00:18:02.425 --> 00:18:06.425
Speaker 0: There's other people like Rich Lowry, the editor in chief of National Review,
00:18:06.745 --> 00:18:10.745
Speaker 0: very smart guy whenever I read one of his stories.
00:18:11.225 --> 00:18:15.225
Speaker 0: I'll read it very, very carefully because, he's
00:18:15.385 --> 00:18:16.665
Speaker 0: usually has good points.
00:18:16.665 --> 00:18:20.460
Speaker 0: I don't agree with everything he says, but I think it's worth it's worth
00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:21.340
Speaker 0: reading.
00:18:21.340 --> 00:18:25.340
Speaker 0: I cert there's a woman who writes for this very tiny
00:18:25.660 --> 00:18:28.780
Speaker 0: website called steve gruber dot com.
00:18:28.780 --> 00:18:30.745
Speaker 0: Her name is Liberty Page.
00:18:30.745 --> 00:18:32.665
Speaker 0: Doesn't sound like a real name.
00:18:32.665 --> 00:18:34.185
Speaker 0: I don't know.
00:18:34.185 --> 00:18:38.185
Speaker 0: But she every day, she's got two or three stories, and she
00:18:38.345 --> 00:18:42.345
Speaker 0: writes with a lot of passion and power, and she's
00:18:42.345 --> 00:18:43.310
Speaker 0: prolific.
00:18:43.310 --> 00:18:46.430
Speaker 0: So it's like, you know, she's doing what I'm doing.
00:18:46.430 --> 00:18:50.430
Speaker 0: You know, she's out there producing content and getting her voice,
00:18:51.390 --> 00:18:55.390
Speaker 0: heard, and god knows how she's making money and stuff like that.
00:18:55.550 --> 00:18:58.655
Speaker 0: So I admire her from that point of view.
00:18:58.655 --> 00:19:01.295
Speaker 0: There's someone there's this man, Ray Cardello.
00:19:01.295 --> 00:19:05.295
Speaker 0: He writes this one person blog, conservative view from
00:19:05.375 --> 00:19:06.495
Speaker 0: New Hampshire.
00:19:06.495 --> 00:19:07.615
Speaker 0: He's out there every day.
00:19:07.615 --> 00:19:07.935
Speaker 0: Right?
00:19:07.935 --> 00:19:10.495
Speaker 0: Every day, he writes, like, a thousand word essay.
00:19:10.495 --> 00:19:12.415
Speaker 0: Does it on Christmas and Easter.
00:19:12.415 --> 00:19:14.610
Speaker 0: Every day of the year, he does it.
00:19:14.610 --> 00:19:18.610
Speaker 0: And so I admire his passion for it even though, again,
00:19:18.610 --> 00:19:22.610
Speaker 0: I'm like, I don't agree with so much what he says.
00:19:23.410 --> 00:19:27.410
Speaker 0: There's an and finally, there's another writer, Christian Toto.
00:19:27.675 --> 00:19:31.675
Speaker 0: He writes the conservative entertainment blog, Hollywood in Toto.
00:19:32.795 --> 00:19:36.795
Speaker 0: He just has a review where he slammed Steven Spielberg's
00:19:36.795 --> 00:19:38.715
Speaker 0: new film, Disclosure Day.
00:19:38.715 --> 00:19:41.680
Speaker 0: But most of the time, he's reviewing,
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.720
Speaker 0: Hollywood films from a conservative point of view.
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.160
Speaker 0: So that's just a a small list of people that I'm reading and may
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:50.400
Speaker 0: admire or like or follow.
00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:51.440
Speaker 1: And that's interesting.
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:51.920
Speaker 1: You know?
00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:53.645
Speaker 1: I think,
00:19:53.645 --> 00:19:56.045
Speaker 1: I think at the core, it boils into, like, respect.
00:19:56.045 --> 00:19:59.325
Speaker 1: And if we can respect one another as, like, human beings and it gets
00:19:59.325 --> 00:20:01.805
Speaker 1: easier to, like, have a conversation at all.
00:20:01.805 --> 00:20:05.165
Speaker 1: Like I said, like, let's just have coffee or I can respect the work
00:20:05.165 --> 00:20:06.685
Speaker 1: you do without agreeing with you.
00:20:06.685 --> 00:20:09.600
Speaker 1: And I think that we're kind of in this this all or nothing society.
00:20:09.600 --> 00:20:13.600
Speaker 1: It's like you either have to be perfect or you're like dead to me.
00:20:13.760 --> 00:20:16.000
Speaker 1: There's no like in between.
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.600
Speaker 1: And I get that even like like threads is an interesting platform.
00:20:19.600 --> 00:20:21.585
Speaker 1: Like, they either love you or they hate you.
00:20:21.585 --> 00:20:22.465
Speaker 1: Like they are Yeah.
00:20:22.465 --> 00:20:24.705
Speaker 1: Like I posted something the other day, six thousand likes.
00:20:24.705 --> 00:20:25.585
Speaker 1: I post other stuff.
00:20:25.585 --> 00:20:27.745
Speaker 1: They literally are like pitchforks coming for me.
00:20:27.745 --> 00:20:30.785
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, it like gets you know what I mean?
00:20:30.785 --> 00:20:34.705
Speaker 1: It's really wild and like I'm legally disabled and somebody was telling me like
00:20:34.705 --> 00:20:38.705
Speaker 1: ableist and telling me that I was being like hurting disabled people.
00:20:38.770 --> 00:20:40.930
Speaker 1: And I'm like, but I am a disabled person.
00:20:40.930 --> 00:20:44.610
Speaker 1: Like, you know, like everybody put your pitchforks down for a moment, like, let's
00:20:44.610 --> 00:20:48.610
Speaker 1: just So it, you know, that lack of respect is really
00:20:48.770 --> 00:20:49.490
Speaker 1: where it's at.
00:20:49.490 --> 00:20:51.410
Speaker 1: I mean, I've even been guilty of that too.
00:20:51.410 --> 00:20:52.690
Speaker 1: Friendly fire on the Internet.
00:20:52.690 --> 00:20:53.545
Speaker 1: Well, I'm like, what'd you say?
00:20:53.545 --> 00:20:54.745
Speaker 1: And they're like, woah, same team.
00:20:54.745 --> 00:20:55.625
Speaker 1: And I'm like, my bad.
00:20:55.625 --> 00:20:59.625
Speaker 1: Like, I just feel like we've really lost like that sense of diplomacy.
00:21:00.025 --> 00:21:03.465
Speaker 1: And I mean, understandably so, it's hard when you when, you know, you open
00:21:03.465 --> 00:21:06.985
Speaker 1: up the news and they're like, oh, some schmuck in North Carolina wants to
00:21:06.985 --> 00:21:10.480
Speaker 1: make it legal for people to kill me if they think I'm trying to
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:14.480
Speaker 1: have an abortion, it's really hard to not get really,
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.320
Speaker 1: really angry about that.
00:21:16.320 --> 00:21:17.120
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:18.000
Speaker 1: That's right.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:18.960
Speaker 1: And hate all of them.
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.960
Speaker 1: And then it makes me look at every man and go,
00:21:23.335 --> 00:21:25.335
Speaker 1: I don't trust you for nothing, buddy.
00:21:25.335 --> 00:21:26.615
Speaker 1: I don't you know what I mean?
00:21:26.615 --> 00:21:28.215
Speaker 1: Like, is this at the core?
00:21:28.215 --> 00:21:32.215
Speaker 1: So it's hard to maintain that kind of,
00:21:32.695 --> 00:21:34.935
Speaker 1: you know, that middle ground.
00:21:34.935 --> 00:21:38.450
Speaker 1: So I I I definitely respect that that you're doing that.
00:21:38.450 --> 00:21:39.730
Speaker 1: You know?
00:21:39.730 --> 00:21:40.450
Speaker 1: I think it's I
00:21:40.450 --> 00:21:43.330
Speaker 0: mean, Molly, every now and every now and then, I lose it.
00:21:43.330 --> 00:21:44.850
Speaker 0: Every now and then, I lose it.
00:21:44.850 --> 00:21:48.770
Speaker 0: But I try I I try and take a more moderate tone.
00:21:48.770 --> 00:21:49.090
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:21:49.090 --> 00:21:53.090
Speaker 0: You know, I part of my North Star is there was,
00:21:53.565 --> 00:21:57.565
Speaker 0: there was a reporter, at the onset of World War two named William
00:21:57.565 --> 00:22:00.525
Speaker 0: Shire, stationed in Austria.
00:22:00.525 --> 00:22:04.525
Speaker 0: And he he was he he worked for United Press International
00:22:05.005 --> 00:22:06.800
Speaker 0: and then Associated Press.
00:22:06.800 --> 00:22:09.760
Speaker 0: And he started reporting on the rise of the Third Reich.
00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:13.760
Speaker 0: And he was one of the few US reporters over there during the war.
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:18.240
Speaker 0: And he, he kept a very neutral tone.
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.400
Speaker 0: But because of his reporting, the the United States was able to understand
00:22:22.795 --> 00:22:26.155
Speaker 0: more about the rise of the Third Reich, and he wrote the best selling
00:22:26.155 --> 00:22:29.515
Speaker 0: book in the early fifties that still used to this day, the rise and
00:22:29.515 --> 00:22:31.515
Speaker 0: fall of the Third Reich.
00:22:31.515 --> 00:22:35.515
Speaker 0: And, you know, so, again, he took that kind of more neutral press,
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.920
Speaker 0: and approach and just was reporting on what was taking
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.560
Speaker 0: place without his personal emotions.
00:22:42.560 --> 00:22:46.560
Speaker 0: We don't know what he was thinking according to his reporting, but it was
00:22:46.560 --> 00:22:47.685
Speaker 0: very helpful.
00:22:47.685 --> 00:22:51.125
Speaker 0: So that that that helps guide me as well.
00:22:51.125 --> 00:22:51.325
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:22:51.285 --> 00:22:55.045
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm capable of speaking or writing without my opinion being very
00:22:55.045 --> 00:22:56.245
Speaker 1: clearly laid out in it.
00:22:56.245 --> 00:22:56.565
Speaker 1: I
00:22:56.565 --> 00:22:58.245
Speaker 0: why you're good at what you do.
00:22:58.245 --> 00:23:00.725
Speaker 1: Well, you know, the jury's out on that one.
00:23:00.725 --> 00:23:04.725
Speaker 1: But, well, let's talk about, like, parallel universal parallel
00:23:05.450 --> 00:23:09.450
Speaker 1: universe and, like, the right wing media where universal truths no longer feel universal.
00:23:09.930 --> 00:23:13.770
Speaker 1: Because that's I think for me, that's been the hardest thing is, like, I
00:23:13.770 --> 00:23:17.465
Speaker 1: grew up I'm fifty and, you know, I went to Catholic school.
00:23:17.465 --> 00:23:20.265
Speaker 1: My parents are very strict, you know, military debt.
00:23:20.265 --> 00:23:22.585
Speaker 1: I grew up thinking that there was, like, accountability.
00:23:22.585 --> 00:23:25.065
Speaker 1: I grew up thinking that they're like, oh, that would never happen.
00:23:25.065 --> 00:23:26.345
Speaker 1: They can't do that.
00:23:26.345 --> 00:23:29.065
Speaker 1: I really lived under that even until recently.
00:23:29.065 --> 00:23:29.785
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
00:23:29.785 --> 00:23:33.785
Speaker 1: I still believe there was this semblance of, like, order or accountability
00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.880
Speaker 1: or diplomacy, and it really seems to be gone.
00:23:38.520 --> 00:23:41.960
Speaker 1: And it feels like both sides feel that about the other side.
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.800
Speaker 1: Like, somebody the other day said that Democrats are pedophile worshipers, and I was
00:23:45.800 --> 00:23:48.755
Speaker 1: like,
00:23:48.755 --> 00:23:50.835
Speaker 1: we're we didn't vote for him, though.
00:23:50.835 --> 00:23:54.275
Speaker 1: So it's like, how what does that mean for our democracy?
00:23:54.275 --> 00:23:56.915
Speaker 1: Like, how do we get out of it?
00:23:56.915 --> 00:23:58.595
Speaker 1: Is it more content like yours?
00:23:58.595 --> 00:24:02.050
Speaker 1: Is it being willing to not just reach over the aisle, but peek over
00:24:02.050 --> 00:24:04.850
Speaker 1: the aisle and and just start with seeing what they say?
00:24:04.850 --> 00:24:08.530
Speaker 1: Because I'm having a hard time seeing our way out of it.
00:24:08.530 --> 00:24:12.530
Speaker 0: I think the, I mean, I I think the problem
00:24:12.530 --> 00:24:16.475
Speaker 0: starts with Donald Trump because of what he says.
00:24:16.475 --> 00:24:20.475
Speaker 0: Like, what he keeps it just just this past week, just saying the
00:24:20.475 --> 00:24:22.795
Speaker 0: California elections were rigged.
00:24:22.795 --> 00:24:24.395
Speaker 1: I love inflation.
00:24:24.395 --> 00:24:25.915
Speaker 1: I love the inflation.
00:24:25.915 --> 00:24:26.395
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:24:26.395 --> 00:24:30.180
Speaker 0: So when he keeps saying that, it's like, up is down.
00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:33.380
Speaker 0: Like, not like, there's no there's no truth.
00:24:33.380 --> 00:24:36.580
Speaker 0: In his world, I see he's got the bully pulpit.
00:24:36.580 --> 00:24:40.580
Speaker 0: So you have the most arguably, the most powerful person in the world
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:45.700
Speaker 0: saying these upside down falsehoods.
00:24:45.975 --> 00:24:49.975
Speaker 0: So how how did how does society move forward from that?
00:24:50.455 --> 00:24:54.455
Speaker 0: So once he leaves office, and I I I'm in the
00:24:54.535 --> 00:24:58.535
Speaker 0: I'm in the court that says that may not happen at in the
00:24:58.570 --> 00:25:01.930
Speaker 0: time frame we think it might happen.
00:25:01.930 --> 00:25:05.930
Speaker 0: You know, maybe things will change then, and we can get our equilibrium back.
00:25:06.330 --> 00:25:10.330
Speaker 0: I mean, it's so disturbing, yet he's still talking about the twenty
00:25:10.410 --> 00:25:12.415
Speaker 0: twenty elections.
00:25:12.415 --> 00:25:16.415
Speaker 0: And that to have you know, that should be a universal truth
00:25:16.735 --> 00:25:20.735
Speaker 0: about the twenty twenty elections, the outcome of that election.
00:25:20.815 --> 00:25:23.775
Speaker 0: And yet he's still creating doubt about it.
00:25:23.775 --> 00:25:27.775
Speaker 0: And he's gonna be creating doubt about what's gonna be the
00:25:27.850 --> 00:25:31.850
Speaker 0: the election results in the California in in in the primaries
00:25:32.010 --> 00:25:33.610
Speaker 0: on November third.
00:25:33.610 --> 00:25:34.970
Speaker 1: So Oh, he's gonna yeah.
00:25:34.970 --> 00:25:36.010
Speaker 1: For sure.
00:25:36.010 --> 00:25:36.250
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:25:36.250 --> 00:25:38.330
Speaker 0: It's gonna mess with our heads.
00:25:38.330 --> 00:25:39.850
Speaker 0: It it's it's yeah.
00:25:39.850 --> 00:25:43.850
Speaker 0: There's it's it's very damaging to society.
00:25:45.105 --> 00:25:45.665
Speaker 1: It really is.
00:25:45.665 --> 00:25:47.425
Speaker 1: And, like, less and less people are voting.
00:25:47.425 --> 00:25:47.745
Speaker 1: You know?
00:25:47.745 --> 00:25:49.505
Speaker 1: And I mean, people are freaking about immigrants voting.
00:25:49.505 --> 00:25:53.025
Speaker 1: And I'm like, or you could look at the records and see that less
00:25:53.025 --> 00:25:54.465
Speaker 1: people are voting in general.
00:25:54.465 --> 00:25:55.745
Speaker 1: So and, you know what I mean?
00:25:55.745 --> 00:25:59.745
Speaker 1: Like, so this idea that all these illegal immigrants are voting is, like,
00:25:59.910 --> 00:26:03.830
Speaker 1: I I you know, maybe we wish they would because people aren't voting anymore.
00:26:03.830 --> 00:26:07.830
Speaker 1: Like, the the the confidence in the election system is dropping every time they
00:26:07.910 --> 00:26:08.950
Speaker 1: say something like this.
00:26:08.950 --> 00:26:09.310
Speaker 1: You know?
00:26:09.310 --> 00:26:11.510
Speaker 0: I mean, that is a foundation.
00:26:11.510 --> 00:26:15.325
Speaker 0: The voting system is a foundation of our democracy.
00:26:15.325 --> 00:26:19.325
Speaker 0: And to to to to put that in doubt about the outcomes,
00:26:20.445 --> 00:26:24.445
Speaker 0: it's it's it's completely poisonous.
00:26:25.325 --> 00:26:26.950
Speaker 1: It really and truly is.
00:26:26.950 --> 00:26:30.630
Speaker 1: And even yesterday, like, Thomas Massie, made a little video.
00:26:30.630 --> 00:26:33.670
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm on the fence about him, but maybe he's my, like, gateway
00:26:33.670 --> 00:26:36.310
Speaker 1: drug into the right wing mania.
00:26:36.310 --> 00:26:40.310
Speaker 1: But, because he still has some pretty shit opinions about women's
00:26:40.405 --> 00:26:43.125
Speaker 1: bodies and things like that that I'm not down for, you know?
00:26:43.125 --> 00:26:46.165
Speaker 1: But I you know, Bogan Clock is right twice a day, so I'll give
00:26:46.165 --> 00:26:47.365
Speaker 1: him credit where it's due.
00:26:47.365 --> 00:26:50.165
Speaker 1: But even he was talking about he was like, oh, elections are stolen.
00:26:50.165 --> 00:26:52.420
Speaker 1: There is election fraud, but not in the way you think.
00:26:52.420 --> 00:26:56.420
Speaker 1: It's from donors and PAC money and that sort of it's
00:26:56.420 --> 00:26:59.140
Speaker 1: not from actual voter fraud, you know?
00:26:59.140 --> 00:27:03.140
Speaker 1: But, like, that also diminishes people's confidence in voter security,
00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:03.940
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:07.940
Speaker 1: Whether it's from voter fraud or interference or money or whatever,
00:27:08.255 --> 00:27:12.095
Speaker 1: but it just weakens the whole operation.
00:27:12.095 --> 00:27:13.135
Speaker 0: Exactly.
00:27:13.135 --> 00:27:13.935
Speaker 0: Yes.
00:27:13.935 --> 00:27:14.495
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:27:14.495 --> 00:27:16.670
Speaker 0: And so dangerous.
00:27:16.670 --> 00:27:20.670
Speaker 1: What do you think would happen if more people were paying attention to what
00:27:20.750 --> 00:27:21.470
Speaker 1: the right was saying?
00:27:21.470 --> 00:27:24.590
Speaker 1: What do you think the outcome would be of that if we actually started
00:27:24.590 --> 00:27:28.590
Speaker 1: reading your newsletter every morning and not screaming at
00:27:28.910 --> 00:27:32.535
Speaker 1: the sky?
00:27:32.535 --> 00:27:36.535
Speaker 0: I I I think it might opens people it may
00:27:36.695 --> 00:27:38.535
Speaker 0: have people,
00:27:38.535 --> 00:27:41.495
Speaker 0: understand the right a little bit better,
00:27:41.495 --> 00:27:43.975
Speaker 0: maybe be a bit more tolerant.
00:27:43.975 --> 00:27:47.300
Speaker 0: I'm not saying it's going to,
00:27:47.300 --> 00:27:51.300
Speaker 0: it might tone down the the heated atmosphere a bit.
00:27:51.700 --> 00:27:54.100
Speaker 0: On the other hand, it could do the opposite.
00:27:54.100 --> 00:27:58.100
Speaker 0: Could make people pissed off that some of this stuff is being said.
00:27:59.300 --> 00:28:02.335
Speaker 0: So it's
00:28:02.335 --> 00:28:03.615
Speaker 0: listen.
00:28:03.615 --> 00:28:07.615
Speaker 0: You can't the the more information you have, the more points of view
00:28:07.615 --> 00:28:10.415
Speaker 0: you have, the better off you are.
00:28:10.415 --> 00:28:14.240
Speaker 0: I mean, I would never argue to you know, when I when I see
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:17.360
Speaker 0: is, you know, the what I did wrong for a good part of my
00:28:17.360 --> 00:28:21.360
Speaker 0: life, I was just getting my information from just a few select
00:28:21.760 --> 00:28:25.760
Speaker 0: powerful, well regarded sources, but I didn't
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.000
Speaker 0: make enough effort to kinda look at other points of view and stuff like
00:28:30.195 --> 00:28:30.835
Speaker 0: that.
00:28:30.835 --> 00:28:34.835
Speaker 0: And I and I and I automatically assumed that
00:28:34.835 --> 00:28:38.835
Speaker 0: if you didn't agree with my position, you were wrong.
00:28:38.835 --> 00:28:42.835
Speaker 0: And I think that was not the correct way to go about it.
00:28:44.010 --> 00:28:48.010
Speaker 0: And, you know, what happens as well in our fractured media environment,
00:28:48.730 --> 00:28:52.730
Speaker 0: we go to, news outlets, whether websites
00:28:52.970 --> 00:28:56.970
Speaker 0: or podcasts or or television shows that
00:28:57.210 --> 00:29:01.210
Speaker 0: affirm our point of view rather than to look at
00:29:01.505 --> 00:29:02.865
Speaker 0: other things.
00:29:02.865 --> 00:29:03.745
Speaker 0: And listen.
00:29:03.745 --> 00:29:04.545
Speaker 0: I get it.
00:29:04.545 --> 00:29:06.705
Speaker 0: Our time is limited.
00:29:06.705 --> 00:29:10.385
Speaker 0: So, you know, why are you gonna spend your precious time listening to someone
00:29:10.385 --> 00:29:12.380
Speaker 0: who you don't agree with?
00:29:12.380 --> 00:29:15.820
Speaker 0: But every now and then, it's not a bad thing to do.
00:29:15.820 --> 00:29:19.740
Speaker 0: And and, you know, that's why I focus so much on websites because it's
00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:20.140
Speaker 0: quicker.
00:29:20.140 --> 00:29:24.140
Speaker 0: It's not like it's not like you have to listen to five
00:29:24.345 --> 00:29:28.345
Speaker 0: Candace Owens podcasts in a given week or Ben Shapiro,
00:29:28.665 --> 00:29:31.465
Speaker 0: you know, and and take five hours of your time.
00:29:31.465 --> 00:29:32.265
Speaker 0: You can do this.
00:29:32.265 --> 00:29:33.705
Speaker 0: Like, you can read the writing.
00:29:33.705 --> 00:29:36.505
Speaker 0: You can go through the newsletter in two minutes.
00:29:36.505 --> 00:29:37.460
Speaker 0: You're done.
00:29:37.460 --> 00:29:38.820
Speaker 1: Like the Associated Press.
00:29:38.820 --> 00:29:39.060
Speaker 1: Right?
00:29:39.060 --> 00:29:40.980
Speaker 1: Like, I get my headlines from them every morning.
00:29:40.980 --> 00:29:42.340
Speaker 1: I get a little, like, bloop.
00:29:42.340 --> 00:29:42.660
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:44.260
Speaker 1: What's going on in the world?
00:29:44.260 --> 00:29:44.740
Speaker 1: You know?
00:29:44.740 --> 00:29:45.460
Speaker 0: That's it.
00:29:45.460 --> 00:29:47.220
Speaker 0: And you feel you feel informed.
00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:47.620
Speaker 0: Exactly.
00:29:47.620 --> 00:29:51.620
Speaker 1: I wanna go deeper, I can, but at least I'm not ignorant of what's
00:29:51.620 --> 00:29:52.020
Speaker 1: happening.
00:29:52.020 --> 00:29:54.005
Speaker 1: Well, I salute you for that.
00:29:54.005 --> 00:29:58.005
Speaker 1: I am making a commitment to join your newsletter and to just maybe
00:29:58.085 --> 00:30:01.925
Speaker 1: read it after nine AM, and I've had coffee.
00:30:01.925 --> 00:30:04.900
Speaker 0: I'm not responsible for your mental health, Molly.
00:30:04.900 --> 00:30:05.940
Speaker 1: Listen.
00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:07.940
Speaker 1: After coffee, I'm like, I can't be bothered.
00:30:07.940 --> 00:30:10.260
Speaker 1: Like, I think you're an idiot, but it doesn't upset me in the same
00:30:10.260 --> 00:30:10.500
Speaker 1: way.
00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:14.500
Speaker 1: So I just I need to learn to, like, stagger my content
00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:16.180
Speaker 1: consumption until after coffee.
00:30:16.180 --> 00:30:19.355
Speaker 1: But I I really respect what you're doing, and I and I'm sure some
00:30:19.355 --> 00:30:20.635
Speaker 1: people will listen and get pissed off.
00:30:20.635 --> 00:30:23.195
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, listen, the only way that we're gonna
00:30:23.195 --> 00:30:26.875
Speaker 1: write this thing is by having conversations in our homes and in our peer
00:30:26.875 --> 00:30:27.435
Speaker 1: groups.
00:30:27.435 --> 00:30:28.475
Speaker 1: And, like, that's the thing.
00:30:28.475 --> 00:30:29.595
Speaker 1: I'm from Washington, DC.
00:30:29.595 --> 00:30:31.650
Speaker 1: And for years, I was the only woman in the room and I was
00:30:31.650 --> 00:30:32.770
Speaker 1: the only white person in the room.
00:30:32.770 --> 00:30:35.810
Speaker 1: And so I learned a little bit about allyship and what that looks like.
00:30:35.810 --> 00:30:37.010
Speaker 1: And it's not performative.
00:30:37.010 --> 00:30:38.530
Speaker 1: It's not about screaming on Facebook.
00:30:38.530 --> 00:30:42.530
Speaker 1: It's like, what are the conversations you're having about race in all white rooms?
00:30:42.805 --> 00:30:46.485
Speaker 1: When are the what are the conversations that you're having about racism in rooms
00:30:46.485 --> 00:30:50.485
Speaker 1: that you stand something to lose when you talk about those things?
00:30:50.645 --> 00:30:52.725
Speaker 1: That's when the real allyship happens.
00:30:52.725 --> 00:30:56.100
Speaker 1: And if you can't represent yourself and the people that you're trying to be
00:30:56.100 --> 00:30:59.940
Speaker 1: an ally for in positive ways in those rooms, then don't do it.
00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:03.540
Speaker 1: But screaming on Facebook and reposting videos of black people getting killed on the
00:31:03.540 --> 00:31:05.460
Speaker 1: streets is not making black people any safer.
00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:05.780
Speaker 1: Right?
00:31:05.780 --> 00:31:07.300
Speaker 1: And I have my friends go to me and say, hey.
00:31:07.300 --> 00:31:11.215
Speaker 1: We really appreciate your activism, but could you ease up I'm posting so many
00:31:11.215 --> 00:31:12.175
Speaker 1: of the actual videos.
00:31:12.175 --> 00:31:13.695
Speaker 1: We don't really need to see it.
00:31:13.695 --> 00:31:14.015
Speaker 1: Right?
00:31:14.015 --> 00:31:17.135
Speaker 1: So I have learned a lot from making a lot of mistakes, but the
00:31:17.135 --> 00:31:21.135
Speaker 1: only way that I can be a good ally is
00:31:21.295 --> 00:31:24.310
Speaker 1: because I'm in those other rooms that they're not in, and then I can
00:31:24.310 --> 00:31:26.630
Speaker 1: challenge them because I'm one of them.
00:31:26.630 --> 00:31:26.950
Speaker 1: Right?
00:31:26.950 --> 00:31:28.390
Speaker 1: I know what they're thinking.
00:31:28.390 --> 00:31:31.030
Speaker 1: I don't agree with them, but they look like me.
00:31:31.030 --> 00:31:31.670
Speaker 1: Right?
00:31:31.670 --> 00:31:32.950
Speaker 1: I have an opportunity.
00:31:32.950 --> 00:31:33.350
Speaker 1: Right?
00:31:33.350 --> 00:31:37.350
Speaker 1: And it matters when I have something to lose because of that opinion in
00:31:37.585 --> 00:31:38.785
Speaker 1: those all white spaces.
00:31:38.785 --> 00:31:39.025
Speaker 1: Right?
00:31:39.025 --> 00:31:42.545
Speaker 1: And I learned that very, very clearly, and I think that that is gonna
00:31:42.545 --> 00:31:43.585
Speaker 1: kinda transfer over.
00:31:43.585 --> 00:31:46.945
Speaker 1: It's like, well, if we wanna write this ship, then it starts with, like,
00:31:46.945 --> 00:31:50.785
Speaker 1: your Trumper dad or your Trumper mom or your Trumper brothers and sisters.
00:31:50.785 --> 00:31:53.770
Speaker 1: And if you can't, you know, I I know way too many people that
00:31:53.770 --> 00:31:55.530
Speaker 1: are just like, oh, we don't talk about any of that.
00:31:55.530 --> 00:31:56.170
Speaker 1: I see them.
00:31:56.170 --> 00:31:57.050
Speaker 1: We keep it surface.
00:31:57.050 --> 00:31:59.130
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, I kinda think that shit personally.
00:31:59.130 --> 00:32:00.570
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a way to live.
00:32:00.570 --> 00:32:03.530
Speaker 1: Like, that's just not how I'm I'm not built that way.
00:32:03.530 --> 00:32:05.995
Speaker 1: But I don't wanna fight with them either.
00:32:05.995 --> 00:32:08.875
Speaker 1: Like, I'm not interested in arguing with anybody either.
00:32:08.875 --> 00:32:12.475
Speaker 1: And so maybe if I had a little bit more of their talking points,
00:32:12.475 --> 00:32:16.475
Speaker 1: it would help me to be able to get closer to some
00:32:16.635 --> 00:32:19.350
Speaker 1: of that middle ground.
00:32:19.350 --> 00:32:20.230
Speaker 1: Because some of the
00:32:20.230 --> 00:32:20.790
Speaker 0: admit.
00:32:20.790 --> 00:32:24.790
Speaker 0: I I always go to, like, I am not happy with Joe Biden.
00:32:25.030 --> 00:32:26.950
Speaker 0: Like, what a mistake it was for him.
00:32:26.950 --> 00:32:30.470
Speaker 0: Like, so that kinda there's a commonality.
00:32:30.470 --> 00:32:31.910
Speaker 0: We can agree on that.
00:32:31.910 --> 00:32:32.550
Speaker 0: You know?
00:32:32.550 --> 00:32:32.950
Speaker 0: Right.
00:32:32.950 --> 00:32:36.950
Speaker 0: That's a that's pretty low hanging fruit, but it kinda takes the temperature
00:32:37.115 --> 00:32:38.075
Speaker 0: down a bit.
00:32:38.075 --> 00:32:38.315
Speaker 1: Right.
00:32:38.315 --> 00:32:40.715
Speaker 1: Like, let's not start with pedophiles and rapists.
00:32:40.715 --> 00:32:44.715
Speaker 1: Let's just go to Biden first, and we'll ease on into it.
00:32:44.795 --> 00:32:45.115
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:32:45.115 --> 00:32:46.715
Speaker 1: I mean and I've done that too.
00:32:46.715 --> 00:32:48.700
Speaker 1: Like, try to find the middle ground where I'm like, okay.
00:32:48.700 --> 00:32:50.460
Speaker 1: You know, I wasn't really thrilled about them either.
00:32:50.460 --> 00:32:53.740
Speaker 1: I didn't really wanna I get it, but, like, the, you know, the alternative
00:32:53.740 --> 00:32:54.300
Speaker 1: wasn't this.
00:32:54.300 --> 00:32:58.300
Speaker 1: So finding a middle ground seems like a really good place to to
00:32:58.380 --> 00:32:58.700
Speaker 1: start.
00:32:58.700 --> 00:33:02.380
Speaker 1: So, you know, Howard, thank you so much for for hanging out with me
00:33:02.380 --> 00:33:04.785
Speaker 1: today and for all the work that you're doing.
00:33:04.785 --> 00:33:05.825
Speaker 1: I'm gonna subscribe.
00:33:05.825 --> 00:33:08.625
Speaker 1: We're gonna put all your links in the chat so people can check it
00:33:08.625 --> 00:33:11.505
Speaker 1: out and hopefully go subscribe.
00:33:11.505 --> 00:33:15.505
Speaker 1: Maybe you need like a complimentary support group, but, like, here's the writing and
00:33:15.585 --> 00:33:18.625
Speaker 1: here's the writing support group for people who wanna, like, get together and yell
00:33:18.625 --> 00:33:20.760
Speaker 1: at each other for twenty minutes in Zoom.
00:33:20.760 --> 00:33:22.920
Speaker 1: Can you believe it?
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:26.040
Speaker 1: But I do think that we need to hear what each other is saying
00:33:26.040 --> 00:33:27.880
Speaker 1: if we're gonna get anywhere.
00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:28.520
Speaker 0: Agree.
00:33:28.520 --> 00:33:31.000
Speaker 0: And thank you so much for having me on your show.
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:32.145
Speaker 0: You're you're great.
00:33:32.145 --> 00:33:32.625
Speaker 0: Thank you.
00:33:32.625 --> 00:33:33.425
Speaker 1: Right back at you.
00:33:33.425 --> 00:33:35.345
Speaker 1: Howard, we I'm sure we would get along just fine.
00:33:35.345 --> 00:33:37.105
Speaker 1: I'm I'm sad I'm not in New York.
00:33:37.105 --> 00:33:40.145
Speaker 1: We could go, have a beer or something or
00:33:40.145 --> 00:33:42.545
Speaker 0: And I'm sad I'm not in Costa Rica.
00:33:42.545 --> 00:33:42.745
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:33:42.705 --> 00:33:44.225
Speaker 1: Actually, I wish they were in Costa Rica.
00:33:44.225 --> 00:33:45.025
Speaker 1: Let me reframe that.
00:33:45.025 --> 00:33:47.910
Speaker 1: I don't really wanna come to New York right now.
00:33:47.910 --> 00:33:50.230
Speaker 1: Well, if you find yourself here, you let me know.
00:33:50.230 --> 00:33:52.870
Speaker 1: And listen, if there's ever a time that you would like to come back
00:33:52.870 --> 00:33:55.830
Speaker 1: on the podcast or if there's somebody that you'd like to recommend to us,
00:33:55.830 --> 00:33:56.950
Speaker 1: please let me know.
00:33:56.950 --> 00:33:59.350
Speaker 1: But if something's going on and you wanna talk about it again, you're
00:33:59.350 --> 00:33:59.910
Speaker 0: welcome to go on
00:33:59.910 --> 00:34:00.515
Speaker 1: the show.
00:34:00.515 --> 00:34:01.475
Speaker 0: That's a great idea.
00:34:01.475 --> 00:34:02.835
Speaker 0: Probably around the midterms.
00:34:02.835 --> 00:34:04.515
Speaker 0: Maybe that's time to come back.
00:34:04.515 --> 00:34:04.835
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:34:04.835 --> 00:34:05.395
Speaker 1: Hey.
00:34:05.395 --> 00:34:06.435
Speaker 1: I, hey, I would love that.
00:34:06.435 --> 00:34:09.235
Speaker 1: I, you know, maybe you can be our, like, the man on the inside.
00:34:09.235 --> 00:34:10.835
Speaker 1: You could do all the dirty work for us.
00:34:10.835 --> 00:34:11.075
Speaker 1: Right?
00:34:11.075 --> 00:34:12.195
Speaker 1: Tell us what to do.
00:34:12.195 --> 00:34:13.270
Speaker 1: Sounds good.
00:34:13.270 --> 00:34:13.750
Speaker 0: All good.
00:34:13.750 --> 00:34:14.630
Speaker 0: Alright, Molly.
00:34:14.630 --> 00:34:15.430
Speaker 0: Thank you.
00:34:15.430 --> 00:34:15.750
Speaker 0: Alright.
00:34:15.750 --> 00:34:16.470
Speaker 1: Thank you, Howard.
00:34:16.470 --> 00:34:18.070
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in to What Do We Do Next.
00:34:18.070 --> 00:34:19.030
Speaker 1: I hope you guys like this.
00:34:19.030 --> 00:34:20.390
Speaker 1: Please go check out the writing.
00:34:20.390 --> 00:34:24.150
Speaker 1: That is my favorite form of civil disobedience that I have learned about this
00:34:24.150 --> 00:34:24.390
Speaker 1: week.
00:34:24.390 --> 00:34:27.105
Speaker 1: I am going to subscribe and check it out.
00:34:27.105 --> 00:34:29.025
Speaker 1: If Howard can do it, then we can read it.
00:34:29.025 --> 00:34:31.025
Speaker 1: And so please go subscribe.
00:34:31.025 --> 00:34:31.905
Speaker 1: Send it to people.
00:34:31.905 --> 00:34:33.665
Speaker 1: If you have people that are like, I'm curious.
00:34:33.665 --> 00:34:34.385
Speaker 1: I wanna help.
00:34:34.385 --> 00:34:36.145
Speaker 1: Encourage them to join the newsletter as well.
00:34:36.145 --> 00:34:37.665
Speaker 1: It definitely makes a difference.
00:34:37.665 --> 00:34:41.665
Speaker 1: And until next time, please be excellent to each other, and I'll see
00:34:41.665 --> 00:34:45.665
Speaker 1: you on the flip
00:34:49.610 --> 00:34:51.610
Speaker 1: side.