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Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us again. This
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is Space Nuts, a Q and A edition where we,
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uh, get questions, we look at them and go,
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no clue. No, I haven't got any idea what
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we're doing. So we're not doing that today.
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Professor Fred Watson: Actually, we will.
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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, we've got a question from Ron, uh, asking
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about, uh, astronomy in regard to
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a super fast moving planet. How would that
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work if you were living on it, is what he's
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saying. Uh, Jeff wants to know about photon
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pressure. Um, Brian is asking
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about, um, what a black hole
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covers up. Interesting.
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And when is a moon no longer a
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moon? Bob asks. We'll see if we can answer
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all of those questions on today's episode of
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space nuts.
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Professor Fred Watson: 15 seconds.
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Guidance is internal. 10,
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9. Ignition sequence start.
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Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.
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Professor Fred Watson: 5, 4, 3, 2.
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1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3,
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2, 1.
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Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts.
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Professor Fred Watson: Astronauts report it feels good.
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Andrew Dunkley: He's back for more. His name is Professor
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Fred Watson Watson, astronomer at large.
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Hello, Fred Watson.
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Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. Uh, it's good to be back for
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more.
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Andrew Dunkley: It is. I'm trying to figure out why your
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parents gave you the first name Professor.
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That seems a little.
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Professor Fred Watson: I thought so too. It could have been, sir.
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Andrew Dunkley: I was probably not as bad as those parents
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in. I think it was Sweden or somewhere who
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named their kid Megadeth. Well,
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yes, and the government tried
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to stop them and they went to court and they
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won.
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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I believe I remember that.
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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, Quite a while back now. But m.
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That's beside the point. Uh, we've got, uh,
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answers to questions or we've got questions
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we're hoping we can answer.
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When I say we, I'm talking about you.
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Professor Fred Watson: No pressure.
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Andrew Dunkley: No, none at all. Um, this first question is
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brilliant, though. Uh, hi there. From upstate
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New York. How hope all is well,
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uh, as you approach spring. It's not, Ron.
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Hay fever sucks. I,
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I played 36 holes of golf this week in a, in
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a major local tournament. And, um,
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I, I paid for it dearly.
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Um, and I still am. But,
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uh, yeah, it's a tough time of year for
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people who suffer hay fever here. I came
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second, by the way. Anyway, um, sorry,
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this is a bit wordy. He says with the
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information just released on the star S300,
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uh, one orbiting Sagittarius A being one of
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the fastest stars in the Milky Way. And he
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sent us a link about that. Moving at 8% the
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speed of light. That sounds like a lot.
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25,000 kilometres per second. I was
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wondering how this would affect an astronomer
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on a hypothetical planet, um,
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around that region, um, relative
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to an Outside observer, their clocks would
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uh, slow dramatically due to the high
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velocity and uh, the depth in
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the black hole's gravitational well at
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um, I can't say that word. Peri.
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Professor Fred Watson: Periapsis.
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Andrew Dunkley: Yes. Uh, then speed up as they
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reach apoapsis.
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Yes. Uh, would that not cause their
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measurements of time related events like
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orbital periods of nearby planets or
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stars to vary during their orbit
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of the black hole? If so, it's crazy to
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think how this would skew their science until
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they learned about relativity. Thanks very
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much for a great podcast. Always enlightening
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Ron. Thank you Ron.
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I love this question, it's really
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clever.
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Professor Fred Watson: Well it is. Um, and um,
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uh, Ron's exactly right.
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This thing is in
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a very very unusual place within
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orbiting Sagittarius, a star which is the 4
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million solar mass black hole at the centre
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of our galaxy. So um, exactly
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as he says, both the relativistic
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speed and um, by that I mean speed close to
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the speed of light. 8% is close to the speed
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of light compared with most of the speeds
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that we uh, encounter uh, in astronomy.
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Uh, um, it is uh,
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that that relativistic speed changes,
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gives you time dilation as does the
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gravitational well that um, this
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star orbits. I
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didn't um, Let me just have a look at
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that uh, link. I have looked at it before,
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um, but I can't remember how elliptical its
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orbit is. Um, it's
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basically very elongated and so
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at what is what Ron uh,
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correctly calls periapsis, um
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the apse closest to the galactic
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centre.
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Apsidies are uh, the points in an orbit
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which are either ah, the nearest or the
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furthest periapsis nearest apoapsis
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furthest away. Um, we talk about perigee and
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apogee for satellites around the Earth.
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Um, that's the way the
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terminology works. So um, you're
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going to have different phenomena uh
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depending on where you are because the
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velocity will vary as you
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go around this elongated orbit. That's
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Kepler's laws. They still hold at these
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uh, high gravitational intensities.
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Um, um, so the time
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dilation phenomena uh, and
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the sorts of things that you would experience
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are exactly ah as Ron said there'd be another
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phenomenon as well. Um, I mean
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being near a black hole is gonna be weird uh
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as to what your sky looks like because the
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black hole is relatively nearby, there's
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stuff swirling around it with the accretion
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disc. It's kind of hard to imagine yourself
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in that situation. But at
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relativistic speeds like that, uh, it
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also changes the position of
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objects in your sky.
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Um, so if you imagine something hurtling
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along at, uh, a significant
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fraction of the speed of light, uh, the stars
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that you see tend to
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the positions you'll see will, um, be.
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They're erroneous, but the stars will look as
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though they're nearer to the direction in
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which you're heading than they really are. So
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there's a tendency, especially as you
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approach getting near the speed of light,
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basically all the stars that you'd see will
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be bunched up, uh, fairly close together in
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front of you, um, because that's the way
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their light is changing itself.
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Andrew Dunkley: I reckon, uh, being on a planet in a
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situation like that, uh, orbiting a fast
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moving star, your astrophotography would be
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awesome.
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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, it would.
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Except, well, probably not. I mean,
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the star trails would all be in the wrong
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place. Yeah, the stars, yeah, but no, great
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question. And Ron, you're on the money there
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too.
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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. And um, by comparison, I suppose we can
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draw on a science fiction movie,
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Interstellar, where they visited
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Miller's planet, which was near Gargantua,
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uh, which is, um, a black
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hole in the film. And for every
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hour they were on the surface of
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the planet, seven years passed on Earth. So,
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uh, that's the sort of gravitational effect
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we're talking about. But, um, in terms
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of the speed of a planet,
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um, in accordance with the fast moving star,
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it's a different kettle of fish, isn't it?
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Um, you're observing everything out of sync,
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I suppose would be the best way to describe
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it.
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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right, exactly.
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Andrew Dunkley: So quite interesting. Thanks for the
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question, Ron, and great to hear from you.
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Professor Fred Watson: Also space nuts.
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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, our next question, Fred Watson, comes
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from Jeff, uh, also in the United States.
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He's in Colorado. Uh, hello
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Andrew and Fred Watson. Thanks for the
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amazing shows. Oh, have we done one? Have we.
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Uh, the sun emits millions of billions of
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photons every second and it's pretty
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much average as a star.
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Uh, could the radiation pressure from all the
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universe's photons exert enough force to
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affect the expansion of the universe? Now
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there's an interesting theory, Fred Watson.
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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, there is, yes. Uh, it's
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um, so 10 to the 45. 10 to
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the power. 45 photons per second coming from
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the sun. Um, I like that number. It's quite a
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lot. It is
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so that, uh,
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that basically that, um,
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flux of photons, if I can put it that way,
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is for every star is an
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outward flux, um, for the universe
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as a whole, it's kind of going to cancel out.
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Um, but it is something
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that is taken into account,
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um, in the study of
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cosmology, the behaviour of the universe as a
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whole. And so in particular, you know,
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the potentially nice idea that this could
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account for dark energy, uh, which is the
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energy of the universe itself. That
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is, um, two quite different
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things. Uh, dark energy is
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independent of any kind of photon pressure.
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Uh, and so, um, it's basically the
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idea of all the photons floating around the
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universe. Uh, I think they are the most
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common subatomic particle in the universe, if
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I remember rightly. And neutrinos are the
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second. I think that was one we covered a
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couple of weeks ago.
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Andrew Dunkley: Yep.
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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, so, um, they're accounted for
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in our understanding of the expansion of the
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universe. And it doesn't explain dark energy.
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Dark energy is still an issue. Uh, it's,
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uh, something just connected with space
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itself. It will be there. Even if the
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universe was completely dark, you'd still
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have dark energy, we believe. And
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we don't know what it is.
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Andrew Dunkley: No, we don't. So probably
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not contributing to the expansion of the
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universe.
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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's correct.
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Andrew Dunkley: And we don't really know what is
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contributing.
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Professor Fred Watson: Well, the main contribution is the Big Bang
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itself. Yeah, uh,
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Andrew Dunkley: it's just a continuing explosion of some
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kind.
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Professor Fred Watson: Um, so the
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Big Bang was what gave the
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universe the impetus to start expanding.
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Uh, and, uh, for the first.
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Well, uh, it actually, the expansion
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rate was very, very rapid at the beginning of
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this period that we call inflation, which
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lasted for a gazillionth of a second.
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Uh, and then it sort of settled down to
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something a bit more reasonable.
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Professor Fred Watson: Uh,
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Professor Fred Watson: but about 5 billion years ago,
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that's when the expansion started
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accelerating. Uh, and that's where we
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think the effect of dark energy really
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kicked in. Because dark energy was,
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uh, strong enough to overcome the
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gravitational pull of everything in the
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universe, which is trying to slow the
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expansion down gravitationally. And that's
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what we used to think would happen. And you
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get the big crunch. Uh, but yeah, when
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dark energy was. Oh, when the accelerated
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expansion was discovered back in
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1998,
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uh, that's when we realised there was
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something, um, lacking in our understanding
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of the universe. Something that is there,
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this energy that seems to
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impel the universe to be continuously
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accelerating. Uh, um, accelerating
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faster than it was before. And that's what's
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happening now? M. Yeah, I think
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just accelerating. It's the acceleration of
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the universe. The acceleration itself may be
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slowing down, but it is
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still going, I'm getting myself.
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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it's very confusing. It expanded
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initially. When the Big Bang happened, it
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expanded. Uh, am I right in saying fast?
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Faster than the speed of light for a period
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of time.
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Professor Fred Watson: Yes. I mean, space, um, can do
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whatever it likes.
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It's not limited to the speed of light.
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Andrew Dunkley: Then it's down now, started
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accelerating again. But now we think that
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acceleration is slowing down
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possibly.
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Professor Fred Watson: Ah, that's still an observation that's yet to
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be confirmed. That the acceleration is
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decreasing, but it's still accelerating.
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That's the thing. It's not, you know, the
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expansion of the universe is not slowing
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down. Uh, still
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accelerating, but the acceleration might be
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slowing down. It's.
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Yeah, it's a double derivative for those.
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Andrew Dunkley: It is, isn't it?
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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, exactly.
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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Uh, one of our live viewers,
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uh, has suggested that the universe could
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be a doughnut shape. He doesn't have anything
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to prove that he's. It's just a hunch. I,
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uh, we. We can prove certain things, can't
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we?
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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, Um, I mean, it's.
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You can have a doughnut. You can have, uh,
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what you might call, uh, the geometry of a
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doughnut, uh, without the thing actually
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looking like a doughnut. If I put it that
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way. Yeah. Um, uh, this is all
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to do with, for example, the geometry that we
321
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all deal with in everyday life is Euclidean
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geometry. Where parallel lines don't meet.
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But there are other geometries, uh, which
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could affect the shape of the universe. And
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doughnuts, I think, do come into
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consideration.
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Andrew Dunkley: Well, there you go, Moose. Well done.
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See, people just.
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They just think and ideas
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come forward. And sometimes they're worth
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investigating, indeed.
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Um, thank you for the question. I think it
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was from Jeff in Colorado.
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Professor Fred Watson: It was.
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Andrew Dunkley: This is Space Nuts, a Q A edition with Andrew
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Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson Watson.
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Professor Fred Watson: Hey, that's one of the better sims, believe
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me. We've had a couple of cool cardiac arrest
339
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down here too. Pete. Up
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here.
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Professor Fred Watson: Space Nuts.
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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, our next question comes from the Gold
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Coast. Not the one in, uh, Africa, the one in
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Australia. Uh, from Brian. He says.
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Hi. Long time listener, first question. Thank
346
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you, Brian. Good to hear from you. Sorry.
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About black holes.
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Professor Fred Watson: Ah.
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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, uh, since we cannot see behind a black
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hole, does it cover up the cosmic microwave
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background radiation. Or does that light get
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lensed around the black hole?
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Professor Fred Watson: Um. Uh, yes,
354
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it does. Uh, to an
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extent.
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Professor Fred Watson: Um,
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Professor Fred Watson: there are funny effects
358
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that come into play on the
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background radiation. And
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basically this sent my thinking,
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uh, to something I really read about for a
362
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long time. And, um,
363
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I've now lost it. Yes, here it is. Something
364
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called the Sunyaev
365
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Zeldovich effect, which
366
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is the way, um,
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the spectrum of the cosmic
368
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microwave background is
369
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modified as the Light
370
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passes through galaxy clusters.
371
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It comes about through a phenomenon called
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inverse Compton scattering. Uh,
373
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so that the radiation of the background
374
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is uh, modified. If that light passes through
375
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a galaxy cluster. I
376
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can't remember which way it works, whether
377
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it's. I, uh, think it is
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a decrease in the intensity
379
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of the background. It might be an
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increase. I might have that. It's a long time
381
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since I've thought about this. But that's the
382
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sort of thing that. That is taken into
383
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account when people consider
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uh, um. Basically
385
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the cosmic microwave background as we see it
386
00:16:07.310 --> 00:16:10.310
from planet Earth. Uh, and
387
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so, um, phenomena like black holes.
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Uh, Brian's question is
389
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a good one because there would be a
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modification of the radiation, um, and
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lensing would be part of that. You've got a
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black hole that uh, intensely
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modifies the gravitational field around it
394
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that makes it act like a lens. So that's
395
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going to happen with not just uh, the light
396
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of any stars behind it, but the
397
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gravitational, uh, sorry, the background
398
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radiation itself, the microwave background.
399
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Um, it's an interesting, um,
400
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question actually. I'd like to follow up a
401
00:16:49.310 --> 00:16:51.270
little bit more on that one, Brian, and maybe
402
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we'll get back to you. Uh, again, just to the
403
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extent, you know, is that a way of
404
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determining how many black holes there are in
405
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space? Uh, because we don't really have.
406
00:17:00.970 --> 00:17:03.210
We've got a few estimates based on
407
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um, our uh, knowledge of stellar
408
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evolution. Uh, we've got a few estimates
409
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based on galaxies themselves. Um,
410
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I guess, um,
411
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thinking aloud a bit and maybe this is the
412
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answer to the question, uh,
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the black hole itself.
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Let's just think about the black holes that
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uh, are uh, in the centres of
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galaxies, the supermassive black holes.
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So that uh, you might have a supermassive
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black hole that's a few billion times the
419
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solar mass, but that's still
420
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probably small compared with the mass of the
421
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galaxy itself. So the lensing effect
422
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is going to be what you would see from the
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galaxy and the black hole at the middle.
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Uh, and I think that's probably the likely
425
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answer to the question. Um, so I might
426
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not need to follow up on that,
427
00:17:59.420 --> 00:18:01.550
having kind of worked it out. Uh,
428
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and that lensing effect of galaxies is indeed
429
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taken into account when we look at
430
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the cosmic um, microwave background
431
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radiation. So yes is the answer.
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Andrew Dunkley: Okay, Easy peasy.
433
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Uh, and uh, thank you for the question, um,
434
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Brian. And uh, yeah, hope all is well in that
435
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horrible, horrible part of the world
436
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known as the Gold Coast. It's well named
437
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because it's got beautiful beaches,
438
00:18:29.300 --> 00:18:32.220
beautiful, uh, climate. Don't um, know
439
00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:34.420
about the people. No, I'm kidding. Queensland
440
00:18:34.420 --> 00:18:37.380
is a lovely. Wow.
441
00:18:38.340 --> 00:18:41.020
Like I mentioned last episode, my best friend
442
00:18:41.020 --> 00:18:42.980
Dave, he's a Queenslander. So there you are.
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Professor Fred Watson: Don't worry, Brian. He doesn't like
444
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Yorkshiremen either.
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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, I like everybody, I do.
446
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Ah, our final question, Fred Watson, comes
447
00:18:53.320 --> 00:18:55.240
from Bob. I don't know where Bob's from, but
448
00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.160
hello, Bob, wherever you are. Uh, how small
449
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:01.040
and misshapen can a moon be and
450
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still with a straight face
451
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:05.200
be called a moon?
452
00:19:05.760 --> 00:19:07.880
That's an interesting question. Brings Mars
453
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into the equation here because its moons are,
454
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uh, certainly not what you would consider
455
00:19:12.780 --> 00:19:15.620
moon shaped. We think of our moon as a
456
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sphere, and that's generally how it goes. And
457
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a lot of the other ones in the solar system
458
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are spherical. Uh, Mars is an
459
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exception. Um, we think they're captured
460
00:19:24.780 --> 00:19:26.700
asteroids, don't we? But, uh, yeah, when is a
461
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:28.780
moon not a moon? I think is the precid
462
00:19:28.780 --> 00:19:29.660
version of the question.
463
00:19:31.260 --> 00:19:34.060
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Um, so this
464
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could be my old mate Bob Argyle, uh,
465
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who's in Cambridge. Ah, but
466
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I don't know. So, Bob, if this is you, drop
467
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us a line. Um,
468
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yeah, there's a very good friend, uh, going
469
00:19:48.320 --> 00:19:50.000
back a long way. We used to work together at
470
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the Royal Greenwich Observatory. Bob
471
00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.240
originated, if it's the same Bob, in, uh,
472
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Newcastle on Tyne, up there in the north of
473
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England. And I used to live there too. So,
474
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yeah, still got some records that he sold me.
475
00:20:05.890 --> 00:20:07.820
Um, okay. We've done all that before because
476
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I think Bob's asked us questions before and,
477
00:20:10.510 --> 00:20:13.060
um, it probably isn't the same, Bob,
478
00:20:13.300 --> 00:20:15.600
but it's a great question. Um,
479
00:20:16.820 --> 00:20:19.220
how small and misshapen can a moon be and
480
00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:21.300
still with a straight face be called a moon?
481
00:20:21.630 --> 00:20:23.960
Um, pretty small, actually. Uh,
482
00:20:24.020 --> 00:20:26.860
certainly. Um, some of
483
00:20:26.860 --> 00:20:29.800
the moons of Saturn, uh,
484
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their diameters are measured, you know,
485
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in single figure kilometres.
486
00:20:36.780 --> 00:20:39.770
Um, uh, we're kind of getting
487
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on that way. You mentioned the moons of Mars,
488
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Andrew.
489
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Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
490
00:20:43.090 --> 00:20:45.370
Professor Fred Watson: Phobos, 23 kilometres across or
491
00:20:45.370 --> 00:20:47.810
thereabouts. Deimos, the smaller one. I think
492
00:20:47.810 --> 00:20:50.650
it's about 15 kilometres and as you said,
493
00:20:50.650 --> 00:20:53.130
probably captured asteroids. But the fact
494
00:20:53.130 --> 00:20:55.050
that it's in orbit around, that these are in
495
00:20:55.050 --> 00:20:57.850
orbit around Mars makes them moons. They are
496
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satellites of Mars. Uh, and I think they get
497
00:21:00.850 --> 00:21:02.930
smaller when you look at Saturn. Some of the
498
00:21:02.930 --> 00:21:05.630
moons sort of wed into the
499
00:21:05.710 --> 00:21:08.030
ring system. I think, as I said,
500
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the diameters measured in single kilometres,
501
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but we still call them moons. They add to the
502
00:21:13.350 --> 00:21:16.350
total of. I think it's 297 at the moment. The
503
00:21:16.350 --> 00:21:18.830
total number of moons known around Saturn.
504
00:21:19.320 --> 00:21:22.150
Uh, so, um, yeah. How small can a moon be
505
00:21:22.150 --> 00:21:24.070
and still with a straight face be called a
506
00:21:24.070 --> 00:21:26.750
moon? Pretty damn small. A few kilometres.
507
00:21:26.910 --> 00:21:28.430
Yeah, maybe even a few metres.
508
00:21:29.710 --> 00:21:32.260
If you're talking about, um, you know,
509
00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:34.780
debris around a planet, there might be
510
00:21:34.780 --> 00:21:36.700
objects that size in orbit around Earth.
511
00:21:36.700 --> 00:21:39.300
Although we do tend to know now about near
512
00:21:39.300 --> 00:21:41.900
Earth objects, whether they're um, asteroids
513
00:21:41.900 --> 00:21:44.660
or moons. We think that
514
00:21:45.540 --> 00:21:47.780
our um, big moon is the only natural
515
00:21:47.780 --> 00:21:50.180
satellite of Earth. We've discussed some of
516
00:21:50.180 --> 00:21:53.180
that stuff as well. We do, sorry. There are
517
00:21:53.180 --> 00:21:56.020
objects that accompany Earth, uh, temporarily
518
00:21:56.020 --> 00:21:56.860
in its orbit.
519
00:21:56.860 --> 00:21:59.341
Andrew Dunkley: Well, I was about to mention 1, uh, 2025
520
00:21:59.508 --> 00:22:01.860
PN7 which was discovered in
521
00:22:02.740 --> 00:22:05.480
Aug. 2025 by the Pan Starrs
522
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.040
Observatory. It's referred to as a
523
00:22:08.040 --> 00:22:10.160
quasi moon. Uh, and
524
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:12.960
it's like 19 metres across,
525
00:22:13.040 --> 00:22:14.080
62ft.
526
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:15.120
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah.
527
00:22:15.120 --> 00:22:17.600
Andrew Dunkley: So it's, it's, you know, it's only
528
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.440
about the size of a house.
529
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:21.440
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.
530
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:24.800
Andrew Dunkley: So, um, but, but it won't stay.
531
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.120
Professor Fred Watson: That's correct. Um, and it's only
532
00:22:29.600 --> 00:22:31.760
a quasi moon. It's actually in orbit around
533
00:22:31.760 --> 00:22:34.760
the sun. Uh, a number of objects like that,
534
00:22:34.760 --> 00:22:35.200
they'.
535
00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:37.260
Andrew Dunkley: It's caught up with us at the moment, isn't
536
00:22:37.260 --> 00:22:37.500
it?
537
00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:40.260
Professor Fred Watson: That's right. When you look at its orbit, you
538
00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:42.780
realise that uh, uh,
539
00:22:43.300 --> 00:22:45.060
uh, it's in orbit around the sun, but it
540
00:22:45.060 --> 00:22:47.260
always hangs around the Earth as well.
541
00:22:47.820 --> 00:22:50.500
But it's not in orbit around the Earth. Uh, I
542
00:22:50.500 --> 00:22:52.860
think that's what defines a quasi moon.
543
00:22:53.020 --> 00:22:55.420
Andrew Dunkley: Here's a question. Um, with
544
00:22:56.780 --> 00:22:59.580
Mars probably capturing its moons
545
00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:03.380
because of their odd potato shapes, is it
546
00:23:03.380 --> 00:23:05.820
possible sometime that Earth could capture,
547
00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:08.680
uh, an asteroid and claim a second moon?
548
00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:11.560
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yes. Yeah, that's right, it is.
549
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:12.280
Andrew Dunkley: Wow.
550
00:23:12.280 --> 00:23:14.040
Professor Fred Watson: And it may have happened in the past as well.
551
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:16.680
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Okay. Very
552
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:17.240
interesting.
553
00:23:17.320 --> 00:23:19.200
Professor Fred Watson: All right. The um, thing about the Earth
554
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:22.200
compared with Mars, Andrew though, is that
555
00:23:22.360 --> 00:23:25.360
what might inhibit that capture on
556
00:23:25.360 --> 00:23:27.960
Earth is our uh, main moon because
557
00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:31.040
it's compared with our uh, planet,
558
00:23:31.040 --> 00:23:33.420
it's a massive object. Uh,
559
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.200
it's 1-80th of the mass of Earth.
560
00:23:36.810 --> 00:23:39.580
Uh, the mass of Phobos and Deimos together
561
00:23:39.580 --> 00:23:42.060
is, you know, basically
562
00:23:42.060 --> 00:23:44.420
infinitesimal compared with the mass of Mars.
563
00:23:45.220 --> 00:23:48.060
So the moon itself, its gravity is
564
00:23:48.060 --> 00:23:50.340
going to be something that, um, any
565
00:23:50.580 --> 00:23:52.870
wandering asteroid will feel, uh,
566
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:55.780
alongside the gravity of Earth and that might
567
00:23:55.780 --> 00:23:58.620
tend to kick it out relatively quickly from
568
00:23:58.620 --> 00:24:00.180
being in orbit around the Earth.
569
00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:01.780
Andrew Dunkley: Okay, very cool.
570
00:24:02.790 --> 00:24:04.980
Um, Gosh, we went through those fast.
571
00:24:06.100 --> 00:24:08.260
Professor Fred Watson: We did. Great questions too.
572
00:24:08.340 --> 00:24:11.050
Andrew Dunkley: They were indeed, yes. If, uh, you have
573
00:24:11.360 --> 00:24:13.680
questions for us, um, please send them in.
574
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:15.520
We'd love to hear from you. You, uh, can jump
575
00:24:15.520 --> 00:24:17.680
on our website to get more information about
576
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:19.880
how to do that. Well, I'll tell you. Click
577
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:22.560
the AMA button at the top of the
578
00:24:22.560 --> 00:24:25.280
screen and you can send text and audio
579
00:24:25.280 --> 00:24:27.600
questions. Don't forget to tell us who you
580
00:24:27.600 --> 00:24:29.760
are and maybe where you're from. That'd be
581
00:24:29.760 --> 00:24:32.200
nice. We love to know where our audience is.
582
00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:33.840
We had someone from Yemen the other day,
583
00:24:33.840 --> 00:24:36.740
which was terrific. Uh, but, uh,
584
00:24:36.800 --> 00:24:39.640
nice to have an international flavour in our,
585
00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:41.800
in our shows. And thanks, uh, to our live
586
00:24:41.800 --> 00:24:44.790
viewers as well, who pop questions in once
587
00:24:44.790 --> 00:24:47.110
in a while, which is terrific. And thank you,
588
00:24:47.110 --> 00:24:48.830
Fred Watson. Uh, we'll catch you on the next
589
00:24:48.830 --> 00:24:50.270
episode of Space Nuts.
590
00:24:50.910 --> 00:24:53.030
Professor Fred Watson: Great pleasure, Andrew, and thanks again to
591
00:24:53.030 --> 00:24:54.870
all the listeners sending in those fabulous
592
00:24:54.870 --> 00:24:55.470
questions.
593
00:24:55.790 --> 00:24:58.470
Andrew Dunkley: Indeed. And thanks to Huw in the studio.
594
00:24:58.470 --> 00:25:00.510
Couldn't be with us today because he's a
595
00:25:00.590 --> 00:25:03.110
quasi Huw. And from me, Andrew
596
00:25:03.110 --> 00:25:05.630
Dunkley, thanks for your company. We'll see
597
00:25:05.630 --> 00:25:07.470
you on the next episode of Space Nuts.
598
00:25:07.470 --> 00:25:08.110
Professor Fred Watson: Bye. Bye.
599
00:25:08.770 --> 00:25:11.510
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, you've been listening to the Space Nuts
600
00:25:11.510 --> 00:25:14.500
podcast, available at
601
00:25:14.500 --> 00:25:16.420
Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
602
00:25:16.660 --> 00:25:19.420
iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast
603
00:25:19.420 --> 00:25:21.140
player. You can also stream on
604
00:25:21.140 --> 00:25:24.100
demand@bytes.com. this has been another
605
00:25:24.100 --> 00:25:26.180
quality podcast production from
606
00:25:26.180 --> 00:25:27.300
bytes.com.
0
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.400
Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us again. This
1
00:00:02.400 --> 00:00:05.040
is Space Nuts, a Q and A edition where we,
2
00:00:05.420 --> 00:00:07.760
uh, get questions, we look at them and go,
3
00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:10.640
no clue. No, I haven't got any idea what
4
00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:13.200
we're doing. So we're not doing that today.
5
00:00:13.440 --> 00:00:14.240
Professor Fred Watson: Actually, we will.
6
00:00:14.380 --> 00:00:17.280
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, we've got a question from Ron, uh, asking
7
00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:20.120
about, uh, astronomy in regard to
8
00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:22.680
a super fast moving planet. How would that
9
00:00:22.680 --> 00:00:24.760
work if you were living on it, is what he's
10
00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:27.640
saying. Uh, Jeff wants to know about photon
11
00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:30.440
pressure. Um, Brian is asking
12
00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:33.070
about, um, what a black hole
13
00:00:33.070 --> 00:00:35.350
covers up. Interesting.
14
00:00:35.830 --> 00:00:38.430
And when is a moon no longer a
15
00:00:38.430 --> 00:00:41.270
moon? Bob asks. We'll see if we can answer
16
00:00:41.270 --> 00:00:43.910
all of those questions on today's episode of
17
00:00:43.910 --> 00:00:44.870
space nuts.
18
00:00:45.110 --> 00:00:46.190
Professor Fred Watson: 15 seconds.
19
00:00:46.190 --> 00:00:48.514
Guidance is internal. 10,
20
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9. Ignition sequence start.
21
00:00:51.670 --> 00:00:52.391
Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.
22
00:00:52.463 --> 00:00:53.820
Professor Fred Watson: 5, 4, 3, 2.
23
00:00:53.892 --> 00:00:56.679
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3,
24
00:00:56.751 --> 00:00:57.430
2, 1.
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00:00:57.510 --> 00:00:58.710
Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts.
26
00:00:58.710 --> 00:01:00.550
Professor Fred Watson: Astronauts report it feels good.
27
00:01:01.150 --> 00:01:03.430
Andrew Dunkley: He's back for more. His name is Professor
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Fred Watson Watson, astronomer at large.
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Hello, Fred Watson.
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Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. Uh, it's good to be back for
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more.
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Andrew Dunkley: It is. I'm trying to figure out why your
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parents gave you the first name Professor.
34
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That seems a little.
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Professor Fred Watson: I thought so too. It could have been, sir.
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Andrew Dunkley: I was probably not as bad as those parents
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in. I think it was Sweden or somewhere who
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named their kid Megadeth. Well,
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yes, and the government tried
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to stop them and they went to court and they
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won.
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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I believe I remember that.
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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, Quite a while back now. But m.
44
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That's beside the point. Uh, we've got, uh,
45
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answers to questions or we've got questions
46
00:01:45.580 --> 00:01:47.420
we're hoping we can answer.
47
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When I say we, I'm talking about you.
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Professor Fred Watson: No pressure.
49
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Andrew Dunkley: No, none at all. Um, this first question is
50
00:01:57.130 --> 00:01:59.890
brilliant, though. Uh, hi there. From upstate
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New York. How hope all is well,
52
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uh, as you approach spring. It's not, Ron.
53
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Hay fever sucks. I,
54
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I played 36 holes of golf this week in a, in
55
00:02:11.930 --> 00:02:13.820
a major local tournament. And, um,
56
00:02:15.330 --> 00:02:17.490
I, I paid for it dearly.
57
00:02:18.470 --> 00:02:21.310
Um, and I still am. But,
58
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uh, yeah, it's a tough time of year for
59
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people who suffer hay fever here. I came
60
00:02:26.420 --> 00:02:29.420
second, by the way. Anyway, um, sorry,
61
00:02:29.420 --> 00:02:31.300
this is a bit wordy. He says with the
62
00:02:31.300 --> 00:02:34.200
information just released on the star S300,
63
00:02:34.200 --> 00:02:36.740
uh, one orbiting Sagittarius A being one of
64
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the fastest stars in the Milky Way. And he
65
00:02:39.420 --> 00:02:42.300
sent us a link about that. Moving at 8% the
66
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speed of light. That sounds like a lot.
67
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25,000 kilometres per second. I was
68
00:02:46.660 --> 00:02:49.220
wondering how this would affect an astronomer
69
00:02:49.220 --> 00:02:52.010
on a hypothetical planet, um,
70
00:02:52.380 --> 00:02:55.020
around that region, um, relative
71
00:02:55.020 --> 00:02:57.820
to an Outside observer, their clocks would
72
00:02:57.960 --> 00:02:59.980
uh, slow dramatically due to the high
73
00:02:59.980 --> 00:03:02.940
velocity and uh, the depth in
74
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the black hole's gravitational well at
75
00:03:05.880 --> 00:03:08.300
um, I can't say that word. Peri.
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Professor Fred Watson: Periapsis.
77
00:03:09.380 --> 00:03:12.300
Andrew Dunkley: Yes. Uh, then speed up as they
78
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reach apoapsis.
79
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Yes. Uh, would that not cause their
80
00:03:18.300 --> 00:03:20.500
measurements of time related events like
81
00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:23.360
orbital periods of nearby planets or
82
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stars to vary during their orbit
83
00:03:26.440 --> 00:03:29.200
of the black hole? If so, it's crazy to
84
00:03:29.200 --> 00:03:31.960
think how this would skew their science until
85
00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:34.440
they learned about relativity. Thanks very
86
00:03:34.440 --> 00:03:37.400
much for a great podcast. Always enlightening
87
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Ron. Thank you Ron.
88
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I love this question, it's really
89
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clever.
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Professor Fred Watson: Well it is. Um, and um,
91
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uh, Ron's exactly right.
92
00:03:49.160 --> 00:03:51.960
This thing is in
93
00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:54.440
a very very unusual place within
94
00:03:56.020 --> 00:03:58.980
orbiting Sagittarius, a star which is the 4
95
00:03:58.980 --> 00:04:01.300
million solar mass black hole at the centre
96
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of our galaxy. So um, exactly
97
00:04:04.220 --> 00:04:06.740
as he says, both the relativistic
98
00:04:06.740 --> 00:04:09.700
speed and um, by that I mean speed close to
99
00:04:09.700 --> 00:04:12.220
the speed of light. 8% is close to the speed
100
00:04:12.220 --> 00:04:14.540
of light compared with most of the speeds
101
00:04:14.540 --> 00:04:17.540
that we uh, encounter uh, in astronomy.
102
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Uh, um, it is uh,
103
00:04:20.990 --> 00:04:23.470
that that relativistic speed changes,
104
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gives you time dilation as does the
105
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gravitational well that um, this
106
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star orbits. I
107
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didn't um, Let me just have a look at
108
00:04:34.910 --> 00:04:37.630
that uh, link. I have looked at it before,
109
00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.070
um, but I can't remember how elliptical its
110
00:04:41.070 --> 00:04:43.630
orbit is. Um, it's
111
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basically very elongated and so
112
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at what is what Ron uh,
113
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correctly calls periapsis, um
114
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the apse closest to the galactic
115
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centre.
116
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Apsidies are uh, the points in an orbit
117
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which are either ah, the nearest or the
118
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furthest periapsis nearest apoapsis
119
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furthest away. Um, we talk about perigee and
120
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apogee for satellites around the Earth.
121
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Um, that's the way the
122
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terminology works. So um, you're
123
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going to have different phenomena uh
124
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depending on where you are because the
125
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velocity will vary as you
126
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go around this elongated orbit. That's
127
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Kepler's laws. They still hold at these
128
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uh, high gravitational intensities.
129
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Um, um, so the time
130
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dilation phenomena uh, and
131
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the sorts of things that you would experience
132
00:05:38.760 --> 00:05:41.280
are exactly ah as Ron said there'd be another
133
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phenomenon as well. Um, I mean
134
00:05:45.300 --> 00:05:47.810
being near a black hole is gonna be weird uh
135
00:05:47.810 --> 00:05:49.820
as to what your sky looks like because the
136
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black hole is relatively nearby, there's
137
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stuff swirling around it with the accretion
138
00:05:54.540 --> 00:05:56.660
disc. It's kind of hard to imagine yourself
139
00:05:56.660 --> 00:05:59.060
in that situation. But at
140
00:05:59.060 --> 00:06:01.980
relativistic speeds like that, uh, it
141
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also changes the position of
142
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objects in your sky.
143
00:06:07.170 --> 00:06:09.260
Um, so if you imagine something hurtling
144
00:06:09.260 --> 00:06:12.260
along at, uh, a significant
145
00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:15.500
fraction of the speed of light, uh, the stars
146
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that you see tend to
147
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.040
the positions you'll see will, um, be.
148
00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:24.200
They're erroneous, but the stars will look as
149
00:06:24.200 --> 00:06:26.680
though they're nearer to the direction in
150
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which you're heading than they really are. So
151
00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:30.760
there's a tendency, especially as you
152
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approach getting near the speed of light,
153
00:06:32.960 --> 00:06:34.720
basically all the stars that you'd see will
154
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be bunched up, uh, fairly close together in
155
00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:40.080
front of you, um, because that's the way
156
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their light is changing itself.
157
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Andrew Dunkley: I reckon, uh, being on a planet in a
158
00:06:44.640 --> 00:06:47.160
situation like that, uh, orbiting a fast
159
00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:49.360
moving star, your astrophotography would be
160
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awesome.
161
00:06:51.320 --> 00:06:52.200
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, it would.
162
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Except, well, probably not. I mean,
163
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the star trails would all be in the wrong
164
00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:00.920
place. Yeah, the stars, yeah, but no, great
165
00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:03.800
question. And Ron, you're on the money there
166
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too.
167
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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. And um, by comparison, I suppose we can
168
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draw on a science fiction movie,
169
00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:11.400
Interstellar, where they visited
170
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Miller's planet, which was near Gargantua,
171
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uh, which is, um, a black
172
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hole in the film. And for every
173
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hour they were on the surface of
174
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the planet, seven years passed on Earth. So,
175
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uh, that's the sort of gravitational effect
176
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we're talking about. But, um, in terms
177
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of the speed of a planet,
178
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um, in accordance with the fast moving star,
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it's a different kettle of fish, isn't it?
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Um, you're observing everything out of sync,
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I suppose would be the best way to describe
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it.
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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right, exactly.
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Andrew Dunkley: So quite interesting. Thanks for the
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question, Ron, and great to hear from you.
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Professor Fred Watson: Also space nuts.
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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, our next question, Fred Watson, comes
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from Jeff, uh, also in the United States.
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He's in Colorado. Uh, hello
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Andrew and Fred Watson. Thanks for the
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amazing shows. Oh, have we done one? Have we.
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Uh, the sun emits millions of billions of
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photons every second and it's pretty
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much average as a star.
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Uh, could the radiation pressure from all the
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universe's photons exert enough force to
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affect the expansion of the universe? Now
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there's an interesting theory, Fred Watson.
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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, there is, yes. Uh, it's
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um, so 10 to the 45. 10 to
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the power. 45 photons per second coming from
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the sun. Um, I like that number. It's quite a
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lot. It is
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so that, uh,
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that basically that, um,
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flux of photons, if I can put it that way,
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is for every star is an
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outward flux, um, for the universe
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as a whole, it's kind of going to cancel out.
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Um, but it is something
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that is taken into account,
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um, in the study of
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cosmology, the behaviour of the universe as a
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whole. And so in particular, you know,
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the potentially nice idea that this could
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account for dark energy, uh, which is the
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energy of the universe itself. That
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is, um, two quite different
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things. Uh, dark energy is
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independent of any kind of photon pressure.
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Uh, and so, um, it's basically the
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idea of all the photons floating around the
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universe. Uh, I think they are the most
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common subatomic particle in the universe, if
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I remember rightly. And neutrinos are the
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second. I think that was one we covered a
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couple of weeks ago.
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Andrew Dunkley: Yep.
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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, so, um, they're accounted for
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in our understanding of the expansion of the
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universe. And it doesn't explain dark energy.
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Dark energy is still an issue. Uh, it's,
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uh, something just connected with space
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itself. It will be there. Even if the
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universe was completely dark, you'd still
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have dark energy, we believe. And
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we don't know what it is.
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Andrew Dunkley: No, we don't. So probably
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not contributing to the expansion of the
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universe.
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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's correct.
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Andrew Dunkley: And we don't really know what is
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contributing.
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Professor Fred Watson: Well, the main contribution is the Big Bang
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itself. Yeah, uh,
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Andrew Dunkley: it's just a continuing explosion of some
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kind.
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Professor Fred Watson: Um, so the
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Big Bang was what gave the
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universe the impetus to start expanding.
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Uh, and, uh, for the first.
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Well, uh, it actually, the expansion
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rate was very, very rapid at the beginning of
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this period that we call inflation, which
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lasted for a gazillionth of a second.
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Uh, and then it sort of settled down to
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something a bit more reasonable.
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Professor Fred Watson: Uh,
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Professor Fred Watson: but about 5 billion years ago,
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that's when the expansion started
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accelerating. Uh, and that's where we
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think the effect of dark energy really
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kicked in. Because dark energy was,
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uh, strong enough to overcome the
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gravitational pull of everything in the
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universe, which is trying to slow the
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expansion down gravitationally. And that's
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what we used to think would happen. And you
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get the big crunch. Uh, but yeah, when
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dark energy was. Oh, when the accelerated
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expansion was discovered back in
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1998,
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uh, that's when we realised there was
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something, um, lacking in our understanding
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of the universe. Something that is there,
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this energy that seems to
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impel the universe to be continuously
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accelerating. Uh, um, accelerating
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faster than it was before. And that's what's
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happening now? M. Yeah, I think
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just accelerating. It's the acceleration of
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the universe. The acceleration itself may be
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slowing down, but it is
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still going, I'm getting myself.
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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it's very confusing. It expanded
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initially. When the Big Bang happened, it
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expanded. Uh, am I right in saying fast?
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Faster than the speed of light for a period
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of time.
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Professor Fred Watson: Yes. I mean, space, um, can do
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whatever it likes.
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It's not limited to the speed of light.
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Andrew Dunkley: Then it's down now, started
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accelerating again. But now we think that
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acceleration is slowing down
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possibly.
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Professor Fred Watson: Ah, that's still an observation that's yet to
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be confirmed. That the acceleration is
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decreasing, but it's still accelerating.
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That's the thing. It's not, you know, the
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expansion of the universe is not slowing
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down. Uh, still
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accelerating, but the acceleration might be
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slowing down. It's.
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Yeah, it's a double derivative for those.
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Andrew Dunkley: It is, isn't it?
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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, exactly.
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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Uh, one of our live viewers,
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uh, has suggested that the universe could
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be a doughnut shape. He doesn't have anything
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to prove that he's. It's just a hunch. I,
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uh, we. We can prove certain things, can't
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we?
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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, Um, I mean, it's.
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You can have a doughnut. You can have, uh,
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what you might call, uh, the geometry of a
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doughnut, uh, without the thing actually
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looking like a doughnut. If I put it that
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way. Yeah. Um, uh, this is all
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to do with, for example, the geometry that we
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all deal with in everyday life is Euclidean
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geometry. Where parallel lines don't meet.
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But there are other geometries, uh, which
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could affect the shape of the universe. And
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doughnuts, I think, do come into
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consideration.
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Andrew Dunkley: Well, there you go, Moose. Well done.
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See, people just.
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They just think and ideas
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come forward. And sometimes they're worth
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investigating, indeed.
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Um, thank you for the question. I think it
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was from Jeff in Colorado.
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Professor Fred Watson: It was.
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Andrew Dunkley: This is Space Nuts, a Q A edition with Andrew
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Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson Watson.
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Professor Fred Watson: Hey, that's one of the better sims, believe
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me. We've had a couple of cool cardiac arrest
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down here too. Pete. Up
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here.
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Professor Fred Watson: Space Nuts.
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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, our next question comes from the Gold
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Coast. Not the one in, uh, Africa, the one in
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Australia. Uh, from Brian. He says.
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Hi. Long time listener, first question. Thank
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you, Brian. Good to hear from you. Sorry.
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About black holes.
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Professor Fred Watson: Ah.
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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, uh, since we cannot see behind a black
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hole, does it cover up the cosmic microwave
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background radiation. Or does that light get
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lensed around the black hole?
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Professor Fred Watson: Um. Uh, yes,
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it does. Uh, to an
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extent.
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Professor Fred Watson: Um,
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Professor Fred Watson: there are funny effects
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that come into play on the
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background radiation. And
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basically this sent my thinking,
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uh, to something I really read about for a
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long time. And, um,
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I've now lost it. Yes, here it is. Something
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called the Sunyaev
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Zeldovich effect, which
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is the way, um,
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the spectrum of the cosmic
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microwave background is
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modified as the Light
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passes through galaxy clusters.
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It comes about through a phenomenon called
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inverse Compton scattering. Uh,
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so that the radiation of the background
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is uh, modified. If that light passes through
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a galaxy cluster. I
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can't remember which way it works, whether
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it's. I, uh, think it is
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a decrease in the intensity
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of the background. It might be an
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increase. I might have that. It's a long time
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since I've thought about this. But that's the
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sort of thing that. That is taken into
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account when people consider
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uh, um. Basically
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the cosmic microwave background as we see it
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from planet Earth. Uh, and
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so, um, phenomena like black holes.
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Uh, Brian's question is
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a good one because there would be a
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modification of the radiation, um, and
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lensing would be part of that. You've got a
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black hole that uh, intensely
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modifies the gravitational field around it
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that makes it act like a lens. So that's
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going to happen with not just uh, the light
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of any stars behind it, but the
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gravitational, uh, sorry, the background
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radiation itself, the microwave background.
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Um, it's an interesting, um,
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question actually. I'd like to follow up a
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little bit more on that one, Brian, and maybe
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we'll get back to you. Uh, again, just to the
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extent, you know, is that a way of
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determining how many black holes there are in
405
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space? Uh, because we don't really have.
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We've got a few estimates based on
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um, our uh, knowledge of stellar
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evolution. Uh, we've got a few estimates
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based on galaxies themselves. Um,
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I guess, um,
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thinking aloud a bit and maybe this is the
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answer to the question, uh,
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the black hole itself.
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Let's just think about the black holes that
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uh, are uh, in the centres of
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galaxies, the supermassive black holes.
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So that uh, you might have a supermassive
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black hole that's a few billion times the
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solar mass, but that's still
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probably small compared with the mass of the
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galaxy itself. So the lensing effect
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is going to be what you would see from the
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galaxy and the black hole at the middle.
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Uh, and I think that's probably the likely
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answer to the question. Um, so I might
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not need to follow up on that,
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having kind of worked it out. Uh,
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and that lensing effect of galaxies is indeed
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taken into account when we look at
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the cosmic um, microwave background
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radiation. So yes is the answer.
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Andrew Dunkley: Okay, Easy peasy.
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Uh, and uh, thank you for the question, um,
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Brian. And uh, yeah, hope all is well in that
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horrible, horrible part of the world
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known as the Gold Coast. It's well named
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because it's got beautiful beaches,
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beautiful, uh, climate. Don't um, know
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about the people. No, I'm kidding. Queensland
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is a lovely. Wow.
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Like I mentioned last episode, my best friend
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Dave, he's a Queenslander. So there you are.
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Professor Fred Watson: Don't worry, Brian. He doesn't like
444
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:46.000
Yorkshiremen either.
445
00:18:47.910 --> 00:18:50.720
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, I like everybody, I do.
446
00:18:50.930 --> 00:18:53.320
Ah, our final question, Fred Watson, comes
447
00:18:53.320 --> 00:18:55.240
from Bob. I don't know where Bob's from, but
448
00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.160
hello, Bob, wherever you are. Uh, how small
449
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:01.040
and misshapen can a moon be and
450
00:19:01.120 --> 00:19:03.440
still with a straight face
451
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:05.200
be called a moon?
452
00:19:05.760 --> 00:19:07.880
That's an interesting question. Brings Mars
453
00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:09.960
into the equation here because its moons are,
454
00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:12.700
uh, certainly not what you would consider
455
00:19:12.780 --> 00:19:15.620
moon shaped. We think of our moon as a
456
00:19:15.620 --> 00:19:18.420
sphere, and that's generally how it goes. And
457
00:19:18.420 --> 00:19:20.140
a lot of the other ones in the solar system
458
00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:22.820
are spherical. Uh, Mars is an
459
00:19:22.820 --> 00:19:24.780
exception. Um, we think they're captured
460
00:19:24.780 --> 00:19:26.700
asteroids, don't we? But, uh, yeah, when is a
461
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:28.780
moon not a moon? I think is the precid
462
00:19:28.780 --> 00:19:29.660
version of the question.
463
00:19:31.260 --> 00:19:34.060
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Um, so this
464
00:19:34.060 --> 00:19:36.940
could be my old mate Bob Argyle, uh,
465
00:19:36.940 --> 00:19:39.880
who's in Cambridge. Ah, but
466
00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:42.240
I don't know. So, Bob, if this is you, drop
467
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.650
us a line. Um,
468
00:19:45.360 --> 00:19:48.320
yeah, there's a very good friend, uh, going
469
00:19:48.320 --> 00:19:50.000
back a long way. We used to work together at
470
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.720
the Royal Greenwich Observatory. Bob
471
00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.240
originated, if it's the same Bob, in, uh,
472
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:57.720
Newcastle on Tyne, up there in the north of
473
00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.000
England. And I used to live there too. So,
474
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.680
yeah, still got some records that he sold me.
475
00:20:05.890 --> 00:20:07.820
Um, okay. We've done all that before because
476
00:20:07.820 --> 00:20:10.500
I think Bob's asked us questions before and,
477
00:20:10.510 --> 00:20:13.060
um, it probably isn't the same, Bob,
478
00:20:13.300 --> 00:20:15.600
but it's a great question. Um,
479
00:20:16.820 --> 00:20:19.220
how small and misshapen can a moon be and
480
00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:21.300
still with a straight face be called a moon?
481
00:20:21.630 --> 00:20:23.960
Um, pretty small, actually. Uh,
482
00:20:24.020 --> 00:20:26.860
certainly. Um, some of
483
00:20:26.860 --> 00:20:29.800
the moons of Saturn, uh,
484
00:20:30.580 --> 00:20:33.250
their diameters are measured, you know,
485
00:20:33.730 --> 00:20:36.050
in single figure kilometres.
486
00:20:36.780 --> 00:20:39.770
Um, uh, we're kind of getting
487
00:20:39.770 --> 00:20:41.570
on that way. You mentioned the moons of Mars,
488
00:20:41.890 --> 00:20:42.530
Andrew.
489
00:20:42.530 --> 00:20:43.010
Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
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00:20:43.090 --> 00:20:45.370
Professor Fred Watson: Phobos, 23 kilometres across or
491
00:20:45.370 --> 00:20:47.810
thereabouts. Deimos, the smaller one. I think
492
00:20:47.810 --> 00:20:50.650
it's about 15 kilometres and as you said,
493
00:20:50.650 --> 00:20:53.130
probably captured asteroids. But the fact
494
00:20:53.130 --> 00:20:55.050
that it's in orbit around, that these are in
495
00:20:55.050 --> 00:20:57.850
orbit around Mars makes them moons. They are
496
00:20:57.850 --> 00:21:00.850
satellites of Mars. Uh, and I think they get
497
00:21:00.850 --> 00:21:02.930
smaller when you look at Saturn. Some of the
498
00:21:02.930 --> 00:21:05.630
moons sort of wed into the
499
00:21:05.710 --> 00:21:08.030
ring system. I think, as I said,
500
00:21:08.430 --> 00:21:11.110
the diameters measured in single kilometres,
501
00:21:11.110 --> 00:21:13.350
but we still call them moons. They add to the
502
00:21:13.350 --> 00:21:16.350
total of. I think it's 297 at the moment. The
503
00:21:16.350 --> 00:21:18.830
total number of moons known around Saturn.
504
00:21:19.320 --> 00:21:22.150
Uh, so, um, yeah. How small can a moon be
505
00:21:22.150 --> 00:21:24.070
and still with a straight face be called a
506
00:21:24.070 --> 00:21:26.750
moon? Pretty damn small. A few kilometres.
507
00:21:26.910 --> 00:21:28.430
Yeah, maybe even a few metres.
508
00:21:29.710 --> 00:21:32.260
If you're talking about, um, you know,
509
00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:34.780
debris around a planet, there might be
510
00:21:34.780 --> 00:21:36.700
objects that size in orbit around Earth.
511
00:21:36.700 --> 00:21:39.300
Although we do tend to know now about near
512
00:21:39.300 --> 00:21:41.900
Earth objects, whether they're um, asteroids
513
00:21:41.900 --> 00:21:44.660
or moons. We think that
514
00:21:45.540 --> 00:21:47.780
our um, big moon is the only natural
515
00:21:47.780 --> 00:21:50.180
satellite of Earth. We've discussed some of
516
00:21:50.180 --> 00:21:53.180
that stuff as well. We do, sorry. There are
517
00:21:53.180 --> 00:21:56.020
objects that accompany Earth, uh, temporarily
518
00:21:56.020 --> 00:21:56.860
in its orbit.
519
00:21:56.860 --> 00:21:59.341
Andrew Dunkley: Well, I was about to mention 1, uh, 2025
520
00:21:59.508 --> 00:22:01.860
PN7 which was discovered in
521
00:22:02.740 --> 00:22:05.480
Aug. 2025 by the Pan Starrs
522
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.040
Observatory. It's referred to as a
523
00:22:08.040 --> 00:22:10.160
quasi moon. Uh, and
524
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:12.960
it's like 19 metres across,
525
00:22:13.040 --> 00:22:14.080
62ft.
526
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:15.120
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah.
527
00:22:15.120 --> 00:22:17.600
Andrew Dunkley: So it's, it's, you know, it's only
528
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.440
about the size of a house.
529
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:21.440
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.
530
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:24.800
Andrew Dunkley: So, um, but, but it won't stay.
531
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.120
Professor Fred Watson: That's correct. Um, and it's only
532
00:22:29.600 --> 00:22:31.760
a quasi moon. It's actually in orbit around
533
00:22:31.760 --> 00:22:34.760
the sun. Uh, a number of objects like that,
534
00:22:34.760 --> 00:22:35.200
they'.
535
00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:37.260
Andrew Dunkley: It's caught up with us at the moment, isn't
536
00:22:37.260 --> 00:22:37.500
it?
537
00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:40.260
Professor Fred Watson: That's right. When you look at its orbit, you
538
00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:42.780
realise that uh, uh,
539
00:22:43.300 --> 00:22:45.060
uh, it's in orbit around the sun, but it
540
00:22:45.060 --> 00:22:47.260
always hangs around the Earth as well.
541
00:22:47.820 --> 00:22:50.500
But it's not in orbit around the Earth. Uh, I
542
00:22:50.500 --> 00:22:52.860
think that's what defines a quasi moon.
543
00:22:53.020 --> 00:22:55.420
Andrew Dunkley: Here's a question. Um, with
544
00:22:56.780 --> 00:22:59.580
Mars probably capturing its moons
545
00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:03.380
because of their odd potato shapes, is it
546
00:23:03.380 --> 00:23:05.820
possible sometime that Earth could capture,
547
00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:08.680
uh, an asteroid and claim a second moon?
548
00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:11.560
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yes. Yeah, that's right, it is.
549
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:12.280
Andrew Dunkley: Wow.
550
00:23:12.280 --> 00:23:14.040
Professor Fred Watson: And it may have happened in the past as well.
551
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:16.680
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Okay. Very
552
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:17.240
interesting.
553
00:23:17.320 --> 00:23:19.200
Professor Fred Watson: All right. The um, thing about the Earth
554
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:22.200
compared with Mars, Andrew though, is that
555
00:23:22.360 --> 00:23:25.360
what might inhibit that capture on
556
00:23:25.360 --> 00:23:27.960
Earth is our uh, main moon because
557
00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:31.040
it's compared with our uh, planet,
558
00:23:31.040 --> 00:23:33.420
it's a massive object. Uh,
559
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.200
it's 1-80th of the mass of Earth.
560
00:23:36.810 --> 00:23:39.580
Uh, the mass of Phobos and Deimos together
561
00:23:39.580 --> 00:23:42.060
is, you know, basically
562
00:23:42.060 --> 00:23:44.420
infinitesimal compared with the mass of Mars.
563
00:23:45.220 --> 00:23:48.060
So the moon itself, its gravity is
564
00:23:48.060 --> 00:23:50.340
going to be something that, um, any
565
00:23:50.580 --> 00:23:52.870
wandering asteroid will feel, uh,
566
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:55.780
alongside the gravity of Earth and that might
567
00:23:55.780 --> 00:23:58.620
tend to kick it out relatively quickly from
568
00:23:58.620 --> 00:24:00.180
being in orbit around the Earth.
569
00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:01.780
Andrew Dunkley: Okay, very cool.
570
00:24:02.790 --> 00:24:04.980
Um, Gosh, we went through those fast.
571
00:24:06.100 --> 00:24:08.260
Professor Fred Watson: We did. Great questions too.
572
00:24:08.340 --> 00:24:11.050
Andrew Dunkley: They were indeed, yes. If, uh, you have
573
00:24:11.360 --> 00:24:13.680
questions for us, um, please send them in.
574
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:15.520
We'd love to hear from you. You, uh, can jump
575
00:24:15.520 --> 00:24:17.680
on our website to get more information about
576
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:19.880
how to do that. Well, I'll tell you. Click
577
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:22.560
the AMA button at the top of the
578
00:24:22.560 --> 00:24:25.280
screen and you can send text and audio
579
00:24:25.280 --> 00:24:27.600
questions. Don't forget to tell us who you
580
00:24:27.600 --> 00:24:29.760
are and maybe where you're from. That'd be
581
00:24:29.760 --> 00:24:32.200
nice. We love to know where our audience is.
582
00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:33.840
We had someone from Yemen the other day,
583
00:24:33.840 --> 00:24:36.740
which was terrific. Uh, but, uh,
584
00:24:36.800 --> 00:24:39.640
nice to have an international flavour in our,
585
00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:41.800
in our shows. And thanks, uh, to our live
586
00:24:41.800 --> 00:24:44.790
viewers as well, who pop questions in once
587
00:24:44.790 --> 00:24:47.110
in a while, which is terrific. And thank you,
588
00:24:47.110 --> 00:24:48.830
Fred Watson. Uh, we'll catch you on the next
589
00:24:48.830 --> 00:24:50.270
episode of Space Nuts.
590
00:24:50.910 --> 00:24:53.030
Professor Fred Watson: Great pleasure, Andrew, and thanks again to
591
00:24:53.030 --> 00:24:54.870
all the listeners sending in those fabulous
592
00:24:54.870 --> 00:24:55.470
questions.
593
00:24:55.790 --> 00:24:58.470
Andrew Dunkley: Indeed. And thanks to Huw in the studio.
594
00:24:58.470 --> 00:25:00.510
Couldn't be with us today because he's a
595
00:25:00.590 --> 00:25:03.110
quasi Huw. And from me, Andrew
596
00:25:03.110 --> 00:25:05.630
Dunkley, thanks for your company. We'll see
597
00:25:05.630 --> 00:25:07.470
you on the next episode of Space Nuts.
598
00:25:07.470 --> 00:25:08.110
Professor Fred Watson: Bye. Bye.
599
00:25:08.770 --> 00:25:11.510
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, you've been listening to the Space Nuts
600
00:25:11.510 --> 00:25:14.500
podcast, available at
601
00:25:14.500 --> 00:25:16.420
Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
602
00:25:16.660 --> 00:25:19.420
iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast
603
00:25:19.420 --> 00:25:21.140
player. You can also stream on
604
00:25:21.140 --> 00:25:24.100
demand@bytes.com. this has been another
605
00:25:24.100 --> 00:25:26.180
quality podcast production from
606
00:25:26.180 --> 00:25:27.300
bytes.com.