[Interview] Rebels vs Prefects, Psychological Safety, and Permission to Play | Cat Hall

How do you know when your team needs a rebel and when they need a prefect? And what happens when you've only ever learned to lead one of them?

In this episode, I sit down with Cat Hall to explore an idea we built together years ago: rebels and prefects, and why both are essential when you're driving change. Cat brings six research-backed traits from her master's in Change and Organisational Resilience that shape how well people adapt, and partway through the conversation, she turns that research back on herself. We land on something worth sitting with: adaptability starts with psychological safety, and with giving people permission to play.

Cat Hall is a workforce strategist and change leader who helps people thrive in a rapidly changing world of work. With a background in organisational development and change, she now works at the intersection of future-of-work strategy and practical change, designing future skills frameworks and adaptive ways of working, from her early years pushing against the status quo inside a large government department, through to building a practical adaptability playbook now used by leaders and HR professionals. Her recent master's research went beyond the adaptability buzzword, focusing on what actually enables people to adapt to change and what organisations and leaders can practically do to foster it.

We get into:

• Why rebels and prefects both matter, and how to know which one your team needs right now
• How psychological safety is the real starting point for building adaptability
• Why self-efficacy and resilience show up differently when change is happening to you rather than being led by you
• How small pockets of autonomy give people permission to experiment with change
• Why a simple mantra helped Cat get through one of the hardest years of her life

Timestamps:

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:44) - Rebels vs prefects: what do the words actually mean?

(05:38) - From "good girl" to rebel: Cat's story

(09:22) - Finding organisational development and a career-defining moment

(14:09) - Full rebel mode at Inland Revenue, and learning to bring people with you

(20:11) - Back to study: a master's in Change and Organisational Resilience

(25:13) - The six traits of adaptability, and turning the research on herself

(29:51) - Doing a master's through the hardest year of her life

(34:37) - Bringing the playbook to life

(37:06) - Where adaptability starts: psychological safety and permission to play

(39:48) - Reflections, and where to find Cat Hall

You can find Cat Hall at:

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-hall-834220199/

Check out my services and offerings https://www.digbyscott.com/

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Follow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/digbyscott/