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Hello and welcome to the latest episode of BSME Talks.
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I'm Deborah Forsythe, CEO of British Schools in the Middle East, the membership network that connects and supports British curriculum schools across the Middle East and North Africa.
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The topic of teacher training, recruitment and retention is a thorny issue currently facing schools across the world.
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The OECD's Education at a Glance report for 2024-25 reports an aging workforce with the younger entry pipelines remaining frighteningly low, acute shortages in at-risk subjects like maths and science, and over 9% of primary and secondary teachers across OECD countries not fully qualified.
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With this concerning data in mind, today's topic for discussion is early career teacher induction, ECT induction for short.
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We'll look at what it is, what it isn't, why it matters as the global education community strive to upskill and empower educators, and how to complete this statutory component of UK teacher training properly in an international school context.
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If you're a newly qualified early career teacher wondering how you can complete your statutory induction outside of England, or a school leader trying to work out how you can offer ECT induction as part of your recruitment package, this episode is definitely for you.
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And I'm delighted to be joined for today's episode by Mark Bignor from ESP Education, Education Success Partners.
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ESP is the Department for Education's sole specialist appropriate body for statutory ECT induction in DFE accredited British schools overseas.
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In this capacity, ESP oversees and guarantees the quality of the two-year statutory induction process for ECTs working in international British curriculum schools globally.
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So there really is no one better qualified to guide us on this important topic than Mark.
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Welcome to BSME Talks, Mark.
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It's great to have you here.
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Thanks, Deborah, and thanks for having me.
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Obviously, I've worked with BSME for 15 years now.
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I'm a regular fixture at conferences, so a lot of you listening will know me and we would have would have met in person.
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But anyone new, it's great to meet you and I hope to see you at conference in February.
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Deborah.
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Thanks, Mark.
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Yes, you're definitely one of BSME Friends and Family's group, that's for sure.
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No, Mark, um, I'd like to kick off a little bit, set the scene for the discussion, um, by looking at what ECT induction is.
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Why does it matter for a UK trained teacher beginning their career in education?
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Can you just talk us through and explain what it is we're talking about today?
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Yeah, so ECT induction.
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Formerly you might have known it as NQT induction a few years back.
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It's the two-year probationary period that a teacher completes when they've gained their qualified teacher status, their professional license to teach from the Department for Education in England.
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If they were teaching in a state-maintained school, it would be a mandated program.
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It's not mandatory in the independent sector, home or abroad, but highly encouraged, especially if you've got teachers working with you, the want to in the future teach in England.
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Okay, that's a great start.
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Now, for my next question, actually, I'm going to start by saying who is eligible for ECT induction.
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But I'd really like to unpick a little bit here the wide variety of British teaching qualifications.
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I'll often have uh teachers, trainee teachers, TAs coming to say, what should I be doing if I want a qualification?
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I've heard about QTS, IQTS, IPGCE, this assessment-only route.
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I've heard about a lot of different options.
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There are a lot of things out there on the table.
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So can you unpick those?
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Uh, talk to us a little bit about what these different qualifications are and which of them actually make you eligible for ECT induction.
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No problem.
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We could do a whole hour on that alone.
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So um, acronym bingo here.
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QTS, as I say, the qualified teacher status, it's the professional license to teach from the DFE.
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It can be gained in a number of ways.
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That's either a teacher training program in England, your traditional BE, BA, PGCE route, or internationally via either the assessment only route to QTS or the I say new, it's been around three years now.
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The IQTS program, that's a year-long teacher training program overseas.
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All of those end, irrespective of which pathway they took in the award of qualified teacher status and a DFE.
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That's the prerequisite to ECT.
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You can't complete ECT induction and have it DFE certified unless you hold QTS before that.
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So IPGCE, we can spend a lot more time on that because that gets a little bit more complex.
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The IPGCE, it's an internation recognised teacher training qualification.
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It may be something that your schools, your ministries will recognise, will it will offer work permits on the back of.
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An IPGCE, in the majority of cases, doesn't award QTS unless it's been built together, as they do with the University of Sunderland.
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Their IPGCE is now IPGCE QTF, IQTF, sorry, unless it's got the IQTS element in it and the QTS award from the DFE at the end, an IPGCE would not allow you to teach in a state school in England as a qualified teacher.
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It would not allow you onto the ECT pathway.
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And one of the big differentials when you're looking is probably the price.
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So internationally for the schools, internationally, then an IPGCE IQTS or an IQTS year-long training program is going to look something around the£9.5,000 mark, and the assessment only route to QTS, which is a program for experienced teachers with significant prior teaching experience.
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That's a one-term program of assessment.
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That's it's around the£3,500 mark.
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And an IPGC on its own can be a lot less than that£9.5,000 price mark.
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So if you're looking at one an IPGC and it's four and a half thousand pounds, five thousand pounds, it's worth asking if it is QTS awarding because it probably isn't.
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Okay, Mark, there's a lot of information there.
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I'm now gonna I'm now gonna relay that back and check.
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I've got a good understanding of this, and correct me if I've got any of this wrong.
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So in order to be eligible for ECT induction, you need to have qualified teacher status.
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And there are, I think, um, or three or maybe three and a half routes to this.
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Um, you can have done um Q, you can have got QTS via a qualification in the UK.
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So you could have studied a PGCE or a BA or a BSC in the UK, and that would give you qualified teacher status.
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You could have done an IQTS, that's an international QTS qualification internationally, which also gives you QTS.
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If you are a long-standing experienced teacher, there's an avenue where you can get QTS by assessment of the work that you have done and are already doing in schools.
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And then the half of one, and this is where perhaps um candidates need to be a little cautious.
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Some PGCEs come with a QTS and some of them don't.
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So for anybody that's looking potentially to work in the UK in the future, or on perhaps um wants to be aiming at top British curriculum schools around the world, a PGCE with IQTS that allows them to do the ECT induction would be what they would be looking for.
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Did I get that right, Mark?
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That's absolutely right.
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Yeah.
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And the um the two international pathways, the IQTS and the AOQTS, the big differential there is experience.
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So you can do an IQTS program if you've never taught.
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So you can do a teaching assistant to teacher program via IQTS in a year, assessment only QTS, a one-term assessment on the job of a teacher with significant teaching experience.
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And when I say significant teaching experience, the DFE define that as a minimum of two years teaching in a minimum of two schools in a minimum of two key stages.
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Okay, great.
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So we now know what ECT induction is, we know who it's aimed at.
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Tell me, how many newly qualified teachers access ECT internationally each year, Mark?
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What are those numbers looking like?
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Okay, there's there's no absolute definition um sort of total here because it's down to the appropriate bodies of support.
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But I'll give you an indication of our support for the sector.
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So this year we have at this point in time just over 1,000 teachers completing one uh their induction at some point across the six terms of ECT induction, and that is globally.
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So we've got teachers in the Americas, we've got teachers Europe, Africa, large concentration in the Middle East, right out to Southeast Asia and the Pacific.
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In terms of BSME, it's our biggest cohort, the Middle East is our biggest concentration of ECTs.
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And we're currently supporting this year, we've got live ECTs in over a hundred of your member schools, Deborah.
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Oh, that's really interesting.
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Uh starting with that conversation around uh the dearth of people going into teacher training, uh, it's really actually a positive mark to hear that those numbers globally are as high as they are, and really positive to hear that we've got so many of our schools uh within BSME actually part of this process of training locally those teachers that we want in our schools in the future.
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So that's really good news.
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So let's move now then from teachers and what they're looking for to to um to schools on where where teachers can do this ECT induction.
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Can any British curriculum school offer statutory ECT induction, Mark?
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Can anyone do it?
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No, um, is the short answer.
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Um, and if they could, we'd probably have more of your schools do it because the DFE uh will only allow a school to run ECT induction, register it with the DFE, have it certified by the DFE if they satisfy three legal requirements.
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And these are on a statute book in Westminster, these are set in stone.
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First is the school needs to have done a BSO inspection in the last six years.
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So despite a BSO lasting for three years, they give you six years from the date of your inspection to run the ECT program because clearly you've got a two-year window of teachers on the program to consider, so there's an overlap.
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Secondly, they need to be a member of a DFE recognized membership association.
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As you know, Deborah, you're one of those.
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So by being a BSO member, all of your members tick that box.
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The third legal requirement is they need to work with what's called an appropriate body.
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And that's where we come in at ESP as the DFE's appropriate body for BSO schools.
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There are other options.
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It would be wrong of me to say that it's a monopoly because it isn't.
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An appropriate body option for a school would be ourselves.
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Potentially, the independent schools teacher induction panel is still, but you can only work with them if, in addition to your BSE membership, we've got COBIS membership, and what is called a teaching school hub as the third option.
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And those are local authority-based clusters of schools that have almost replaced the traditional local educational authority model.
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Um, and there are, I know, some local some teacher school hubs that work within your membership.
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And I know that it's that we'll work with some new member schools as well.
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So clear there on which schools can and can't offer that.
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And important, I guess, um, those factors are important when we're talking about the quality of the induction experience for a newly qualified teacher.
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What would you say that how would you describe a really high-quality induction experience?
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Okay, so the reason that the DFE limited to BSO is that very matter of it needed to be quality and the external validation of a of a BSO inspection and the offset regulation.
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That's why they currently have no intention of changing the model from BSO for ECT.
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In school, though, they are supported by a number of people.
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They'll have an ECT mentor.
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That's normally somebody that's closer in age, experienced to them, potentially somebody that might have even relocated from the UK last year or a year before.
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Who knows what it's like to settle into the region.
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Um, they might have been out to Dubai for a holiday, but it's very different living and teaching there as a next pat.
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So that mentor, as I say, closer in age, closer in experience, within their key stage, their subject, and they're gonna be the ears on the ground for the leadership team in terms of the well-being and also the professional development needs of that teacher on the job.
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And that's all underpinned by an online self-directed framework of the early career framework.
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They're gonna be assessed, and they're gonna be assessed against the teacher's standards in their job, probably by an induction tutor who is in the leadership code.
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So their job is termally assessment to ensure that they can say that that teacher is satisfactory or better against the teacher's standards, and then all underpinned by the head of school, the principal, who are going to be making recommendations to the appropriate body at the end of the first year of induction, that that teacher is is ready to move into year two.
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And at the end of year two, the biggest recommendation that that teacher passes ECT, that the appropriate body tell the DFE that teacher has passed her ECT in a BSO school, and that it then go on to their DFE record.
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And that's an important thing because there is no there is no international version of ECT.
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The certificate that they will get when they complete their induction in a BSME school with BSO accreditation will be the exact same accreditation and certificate that one of my kids back here in Hertfordshire in England will get if they were an ECT.
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So there's in terms of future portability, so those teachers that want to have a three, four, five-year teaching experience at the start of their careers, then come back to England to settle down, they're going to bring that qualification with them.
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And it's going to be exactly the same as if they'd stayed at home.
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So no issues with transferability in terms of coming home at any time or moving within the high quality schools in the sector.
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Thanks, Mark.
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And and really positive there to hear that you've got an academic mentor, if you like, who's doing the assessment and actually working on the teaching quality, but you've got a mentor in there who's looking after the well-being of that newly qualified teacher as well and supporting them in a more holistic way, not just in terms of their workload.
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I think that's really quite important when you consider that teaching can be quite a stressful environment in which to work.
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Yeah, and that's why they're quite often separated in terms of their experiences, in terms of the people supporting them.
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But that's for the school running the program to determine the best person for the individual teacher.
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So we've we've talked there about quality, Mark, um, and and you're responsible for that quality.
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Um so as the AB responsible for quality assuring, the this provision internationally, how do you go about ensuring that this induction that's taking place in overseas schools meets the same standards as induction in a UK school?
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Okay, so I'm a regular in the region, I'm a regular in a number of your schools, but as I say, we run this globally.
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We've got schools in Kathmandu, for example, with one ECT.
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Um, so it is a completely, it can run as a completely distance learning model, a distance supported model.
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Um, but we do have some clear guidance and caveats here that we have to attach to the program to ensure that we can say to the DFE that the induction running in school X is as comparable as possible to it would be in a school in England.
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So what we're looking at is we're looking at the statutory entitlements running.
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So the statutory entitlements are those sort of supports that I talked about of the mentor, the tutor, um, of time off timetable for induction-related activities, engagement in CPD, um, support in school, and similar CPD support in BSO schools in particular and CSME schools is significantly higher than you would get in a state school as standard.
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So a school-based CPD program, though the opportunities that your various CPD providers offer, they all come into play.
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And we do that once a year by what's got a glamorous title of a fidelity check.
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And essentially, that means that we do check with the induction lead in the school.
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So that might be the principal, that might be a member of the leadership team that's taken overall responsibility for the program.
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And we will go through the program, we'll we'll talk about the support teachers are receiving, we'll ask some probing questions around that support, and it'll all get documented to the DFE so that they know that the program running in one of your member schools in Qatar or Dubai, wherever they may be, is, as I say, broadly comparable with those international nuances of a school in England.
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What the DFE talk about a lot is the breadth and depth.
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So schools are expected to cover the breadth and depth of the requirements in England, depending upon their calendars, their academic years, worst case scenario, the last two terms of last year, the conflict.
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Clearly, we have to have some reaction to the regional issues as well in the program.
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But we're there to guide you.
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That's really the role of the AB is advice, guidance, and support to make sure your school is supported and are as compliant.
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Should the DFE say we want to do a do a compliance check on a school.
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Okay, that that's really helpful, Mark.
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And nice to hear there that we we're allowing for nuances because obviously every international context is going to be slightly different.
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You talked about assessment there.
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Um you also talk about conflict, so I'm going to bring these two together.
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Um, so you've said that there's an assessor within the school and they will assess the early career teachers' progress through the program.
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How is that assessment done?
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What sort of evidence needs to be collected?
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And as an addendum, what happens in a conflict situation like we had in the Middle East in term three of last year, when schools are online, how does that impact an early career teacher that's trying to collect evidence for their assessment?
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So to gain QTS on any of those programs we we talked about a few minutes ago, a teacher has to reach the level of satisfactory against the teacher standards.
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To pass their ECT, their evidence into the DFE, they can maintain that level of satisfactory over an extended period, in the majority of cases, the equivalent of six academic terms, two years.
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So what they're doing is the tutor is assessing them in a number of ways.
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They'd be having half-termly, and I'm talking in terms of UK half-terms here, so where terms are slightly different, we have to adjust it.
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So half-termly lesson observation against the teacher standards, where they're getting initial verbal feedback, then written feedback that they can use for their evidence of their performance.
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They're having a termly assessment against the teacher standards, and what that's doing is that's capturing their performance that term.
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And the depending on the term of induction they're in, what we look for, what the DFE look for is different.
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So for a teacher that came out to the Middle East at the start of this academic year, the assessment we're going to get at the end of this term is really going to be looking more about have they settled into the school?
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Do they understand the culture?
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Do they understand the working practices with the local ministries?
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Do they understand how teaching in a BSME school in Q8 is different to their experiences of teaching in England?
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Those regulatory differences, the day-to-day operational differences, as they go through the program, it gets more in terms of more depth in terms of their actual teaching against the teacher standards.
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But the school are going to judge are they on course to be satisfactory or better by the end of induction at the end of each of those terms.
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If they were to drop below the required level, then it's important to stress that they haven't failed that term.
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They will just get, it will trigger additional support from us at the appropriate body to the school, from the school to the ECT, potentially even from us directly to the ECT, to make sure that by the end of the next term of induction they're at the required level.
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It's important to stress that because while I say satisfactory, it's not going to be a continuum straight across, it's going to peaks and drops.
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Because they'll get that additional support.
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Because it's important failure is a specific legal term in induction law.
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If you were to fail your induction, you will be barred from teaching in a state-maintained school in England for life.
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So it's it's a it's a one-shot induction in terms of if you were to fail it.
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However, you know, we've got a f over a thousand at the moment, some years in uh it's lower than that.
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But if you multiply DSA's been around for 15 years, I've been doing this for 15 years.
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It's several thousand teachers in that time have gone through the program.
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I've had less than a dozen failures.
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:52.240
Because a failure in all cases will relate to criminality or safeguarding when that person shouldn't be in the classroom.
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:59.599
If we got to the end of two years and a teacher was below the required level, then the school would apply for an extension.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:09.039
TF3 to give additional support in another in a term, maybe two terms, of a third year of induction with the support of the A B in that time.
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:15.920
When it comes to evidence, breadth and depth again comes into play if you read the DFE information.
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:20.960
They're expected to collate and a portfolio that shows their performance in the classroom.
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:25.839
We suggest that looks like the lesson observation feedback I've already talked about.
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:36.319
Notes from their mentor meetings, which they're having weekly in year one, fortnightly in year two, and two or three pieces of evidence per standard per term of induction.
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:42.480
So I'm not worried about standard one, A, one, B, one, C, but standard one, two or three pieces of high quality evidence each term.
00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:48.079
So if you're multiplying that over six terms, you're at sort of 1820 pieces of evidence per standard.
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:58.160
That allows us to be able to say we've got a real feel for that teacher in the classroom when we're when we're validating the school judgment on the outcome of induction.
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:07.279
When I did this in UK, um in a local authority, leverage files like those you can see behind me, they bring those along, they stick them on the table and say, aren't I brilliant?
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:08.079
Look at all of this.
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:10.559
And you didn't have time to really go through it.
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:15.279
So we we ask them for quality, not quantity, in any of their evidence.
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:22.400
And moving on to your conflict question, they can do that as well via online learning.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:27.200
So there are ways that you can capture evidence of your teaching during online learning.
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:36.079
There are clearly ways that lessons can be observed online, and also those assessment meetings, they can be completed as an online one-to-one meeting.
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:49.519
So when we had the conflict, um, we revisited with DFE the guidance that we'd released in COVID, which was very, very similar about online teaching and brought it up to date for for the last couple of turns of last year.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:57.759
Fortunately, at this stage, um, we're fairly stable in terms of actually teaching in person.
00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:06.079
But if we were to revisit online learning at any point in the future, that that assessment guidance would would come back into play and would be updated accordingly.
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:08.000
We're hoping we're not tempting fate there, Mark.
00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:09.359
We're hoping we're very much going to be staying.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.400
I'm wanting to put that on the shelf for a few years.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:13.680
Yeah, we certainly are.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:15.759
But good experience, I guess, for teachers.
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:21.200
As you say, there's uh you never quite know when that might happen wherever you are in the world for different reasons.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.960
So to have had that experience as part of your training is is no bad thing.
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:38.799
Really positive for me there, Mark, to hear about the fact that um this is really not about being judgmental of teachers, but it's about supporting them and helping them to reach that standard that we want high-quality teachers to be at.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:45.759
And that there is that additional support, extra time required if teachers need that to actually get to the point that they need to get to.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:54.079
So that's yeah, the word the word you use there of judgmental is I think is key, Deborah, because I describe it as a developmental, not judgmental program.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:25:06.720
It's there to enhance their quality and to put support in if they need it, but it's it's not about picking thought, it's about positive developmental journey.
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:08.720
Yeah, sounds good.
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:13.599
Now you spoke earlier, Mark, about portability of the ECT induction.
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:16.799
Um, I'm gonna ask about portability of the process now.
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:29.680
So if we've we've got somebody listening in today who's already started their early career teacher induction, say in the UK, but they're thinking that they'd quite like to move internationally, but they they're now they will be halfway through a process.
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:34.160
Is it possible for teachers to move partway through that two-year process?
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:57.200
It is it quite common actually in your schools that they will receive an ECT that's done year one of their induction in England while they're looking for the perfect job overseas, because clearly, if you think about your recruitment windows, um a teacher will be starting their ECT in September, potentially looking at jobs in November, December for the following academic years.
00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:05.119
So we see probably around 10 to 15% of our teachers that we register every year have done some induction elsewhere.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:18.079
So, what would happen if I was the ECT and I'm teaching in a school in England, um, and I did year one in England, so terms one to three, then I'd be assessed against the standards by the school and the appropriate body in England.
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:26.799
When I left that school, I'd have that put onto my DFE record and it would sit there to say Mark Bignor has completed three terms of induction.
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:40.480
And when I then go into an eligible school, home or abroad, and they look at my DFE record with their appropriate body partner, the appropriate body would say, Mark's already done three terms, he only needs to do terms four, five, and six with you.
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:52.400
So essentially, you can do your induction over multiple schools, um, however, it tends to, in reality, be a year, let's see somewhere, and then moving to another school for year two.
00:26:52.960 --> 00:27:05.519
Um, schools receiving ECTs that have done induction elsewhere, they don't need to worry about the quality of that induction because it's been signed off, it's been set on the DFE record.
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:16.720
But what we do recommend they get hold of is the assessments from the previous school, um, because that will identify any developmental areas that have been picked up, any concerns that the schools may have had.
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:24.559
So it allows the receiving school to support that teacher from day one or to test do they think that that assessment was accurate?
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.119
So it gives them a starting point to go from.
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:28.480
But yes, you can move.
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:39.039
And similarly, if you've got an ECT in a BSME school, for some reason, personal family circumstances has to return home, or would release them from induction.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:50.720
They would then I would then put it onto their record, they completed three terms in that school, and then they would be picked up back at home by a teaching school hub and do terms four, five, and six domestically.
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:52.480
So, yes, it is portable.
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.880
There is no length of time in which if they started, they need to finish.
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.880
That's probably an important one because there's a miffed abuse there.
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:05.920
Because if you hit Google, it will say QTS elapses after five years and you have to start again.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:20.319
If you have started your ECT induction, then there is no time limit on commencing the remainder of it, in the same way as, as I say, it's not mandated in the independent sector home report that you do it at all.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:27.680
Um, so no, they would they can they can take it back, they can make it in the future re-engage.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:45.519
But if they were to move from a BSME BSO school to a BSME non-BSO school, they would not be able to re-engage until either that receiving school gained their BSO accreditation or they moved to a BSO school abroad in the future or to an eligible school in England.
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:52.160
So portability, yes, with some restrictions onto the types of school.
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:55.839
Yeah, yeah, tying into what we talked about eligibility earlier.
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:03.279
Yeah, so anybody uh mid-program move looking to move really needs to look for a school that definitely has that BSO accreditation.
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:04.880
Really, really good there to you.
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:09.440
I actually hadn't realised, Mark, that you could have that break in the middle um of the induction.
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:16.319
Just thinking that's really positive, say for somebody who has a break for children, maybe in the middle of that.
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:18.720
Um, it doesn't mean that you it's all been a waste of time.
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.640
You can sort of park that and come back to it in the future.
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:23.039
Yeah.
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:24.400
Okay, lovely.
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:27.200
Um, what else did I want to ask you about?
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:39.279
Um, oh yeah, we'd spoken earlier about these um teachers with long experience, but that don't have the the have not done the early career teacher induction and don't so don't have this sort of formal qualification.
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:42.799
Now we talked about the fact that they have a different process.
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:47.839
Can you talk to us about what that what is required from that long-serving teacher?
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:50.079
I know this is called the assessment only route.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:54.960
Talk us through a little bit what's required of that teacher and what the time frame is for that scenario.
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:02.000
Okay, so the assessment only route to QTS that is a 12-week on-the-job assessment.
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:06.880
So there is no to be eligible for that, they need to have had that experience I spoke about.
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:14.000
I call it the rule of two, two years cumulative teaching experience in a minimum of two schools, in a minimum of two key stages.
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:18.000
And that's whole class teaching that can be mapped against the teacher standards.
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:28.799
So it doesn't need to be a BSO school, it doesn't even need to be a British curriculum school, but as long as it can be mapped against the teacher standards, that previous experience, they would be in scope.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.240
And both both international teaching pathways, they're postgraduate.
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:33.519
I didn't mention that earlier.
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.920
So they have some academic basis that is the same on IQTS and AO.
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:45.440
But if they were accepted onto AO, they would apply in one term, they'd be interviewed for the program and offered a place for the following term.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:57.920
They would then do a 12-week assessment on the job with a midpoint assessment from the university or ITT provider, and then a final assessment.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:02.559
That in the majority of cases is still completed distance.
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:08.960
Um, so there is no, in the majority of cases, costs of flying people out to do a half-day assessment.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:16.160
So we're still looking at collecting pretty much the same type of evidence, I guess, that we were talking about earlier for assessment.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:17.519
Very much so.
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:23.119
They're building up, they're building a portfolio to show they can reach the level of satisfactory with the university's guidance.
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:25.119
They can be assessed at any point.
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:29.359
Oh, sorry, Deborah, they can be assessed at any point from the middle of midpoint assessment.
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:35.519
So one question I often get in your part of the world is term three, we finish early, we only have eight weeks.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:36.559
Is it possible?
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:45.599
They can they can complete AOQTS in term three in a BSME school, especially in Q8, where they um that tends to be the one where people worry.
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:49.359
Um they because they can be assessed from the midpoint.
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:54.960
So if at the midpoint assessment they are deemed to be on track, they can then bring forward the final assessment.
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.359
So 12 weeks is the absolute maximum.
00:31:57.599 --> 00:32:08.559
It's a program of really between eight and twelve weeks, which then will award subject to assessment QTS at the end, and they can move on to ECT from there.
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:24.799
Okay, and just to clarify, you'd said that um with the experience needing to be in two schools, that that didn't have to be a BSO school, but presumably the the person who's applying for assessment only needs to be in a BSO school at the time of application, is that right?
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:31.599
No, the QTS pathways, IQTS and AO, they can be completed in a non-BSO setting.
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:32.000
Oh, right.
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:32.160
Okay.
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.920
ECT is limited to BSO.
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:46.160
It's for the university or the ITT provider to have their own infrastructure of quality assuring the school that they're working in.
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:58.480
So membership of BSME is one of those criteria that I know a number of them think actually by being BSME, even if you're not at BSO, you've got you've gone through that strict criteria for membership of BSME.
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:07.440
So I would I would struggle to think of um a scenario within your membership where they wouldn't be able to run IQTS or AOQTS in school.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:08.079
Okay.
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:09.279
Right.
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:14.559
And we've spoken low about teachers, um, the teacher side of things.
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:18.000
And I want us to focus a little bit now on the school side of things.
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:30.160
So for a BSME school who is considering offering ECT induction, maybe hasn't done this before, what are the benefits to them in terms of recruitment, retention, and teacher development?
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:34.319
Um, so why would they want to go down this route of offering it?
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:41.359
And if they decided they wanted to, what are the practical steps and what are the costs involved in getting this set up in their school?
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.079
Okay, so I'll talk frankly here.
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:51.599
One of the big draws is recruitment, is the ability to put in your adverts in TES or wherever you're placing them.
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.960
That we're a BSO school, we run ECT induction.
00:33:55.039 --> 00:34:07.839
You can come out to us straight from teacher training with all that energy, those time to travel and teach at the same time, and continue your DFE journey of qualification by completing your ECT with us.
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:11.840
I see a lot of schools that we work with use it as a recruitment tool.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:19.599
Some even sponsor the induction as part of the tool um in terms of recruitment.
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:24.559
Some look at it in terms of, especially with IQTS, in terms of growing your own.
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:35.599
So if you've got TAs that want to become qualified teachers, they can gain a QTS in a year via IQTS, then they can do a two-year ECT program.
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:46.719
In three years, somebody that's never been in a classroom could be in a BSME, BSO school, qualified at the same level as a teacher in a school in England.
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:52.639
Um, and that offers opportunities for the future, obviously, should they wish to move.
00:34:52.800 --> 00:35:10.159
Um, spousal partners, quite often we get that scenario where people have gone abroad not with a teacher as the as the main lead, they've ended up working in school, they found an appetite for teaching, they want to do that so that when they can move move on or move home, they can both teach.
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:13.440
So, all of those scenarios come into play.
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:15.440
Recruitment is a big piece of it.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:24.079
Um, and also we all know schools have budgets, staffing budgets to balance in terms of levels of experience.
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:29.519
So recruiting an ACT may give you opportunities else elsewhere in your recruitment budget.
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:43.039
But in terms of the costs of induction, this is where you're gonna be a bit shocked because this is a service where legally, as the appropriate body, we cannot make a penny of profit.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:54.239
It can only cover the costs that we bring in from induction services, have to cover the cost of delivering the service, but we cannot make any profit off the back of the service.
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:57.360
So I'm gonna be a little bit glib here.
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:07.679
We meet with a DFE once a year, we meet with our appropriate body board, and I project the number of ECTs that we're we feel may come into the service within the year.
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:22.800
Projected costs of delivering the service, including those quality assurance visits, um, being out in the various regions throughout the year, and X divided by Y with a margin for error, give you your annual pricing per ECT.
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:33.519
What I said earlier about ISTIP, like with a designated appropriate body for British schools overseas, they're the designated appropriate body for independent schools in England.
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:38.239
They have a slightly different delivery model, it has a lot more face-to-face involvement.
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:49.519
Oddly, this is the only service where a British school overseas is accessing it, if they do it through us, at less than they would be if they're an independent school in England.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:55.760
Um, I know that everything else comes with a markup because of the legal restrictions around the pricing element.
00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:04.320
Actually, you're accessing this internationally at a price lower than you would be if you were leading a BS uh British school in independent school in England.
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:05.760
That's really good news, Mark.
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:09.360
As a as a not-for-profit, BSME is obviously a not-for-profit organisation.
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:12.800
I really like to hear that this is a not-for-profit process.
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:16.960
And to hear that we can get it cheaper overseas than the UK, that's very unusual.
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:18.800
So very good news there for everybody.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:20.000
Yeah, it's an oddity.
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:21.760
A nice oddity to have.
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:22.719
Right, Mark.
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:24.800
I think um I I've run out of questions.
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:40.239
I think that wraps up sort of uh giving us a really clear picture today of what ECT induction is, who it's for, why it's important, who can do it, where you can do it, how it works, what it allows you to do when you've got it.
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:43.039
So lots of really, really useful information there.
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:48.719
Um before we actually wrap up though, Mark, I'm going to ask you one question, nothing to do with ECT induction at all.
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:52.079
Um, but it is one of our BSME closing questions.
00:37:52.480 --> 00:38:03.519
We all know that teacher influence has a ripple effect and can go on way beyond what a teacher might imagine its impact is at the time that they're in that classroom.
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:15.280
So I'd like you, Mark, to look back on your dim and distant childhood and schooling and talk to us about a teacher that's maybe had a long-standing impact on you.
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:16.719
I'll give you one.
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:24.400
Um, she was in the equivalent of her early career when when I was a quarter of a century ago in school.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:32.480
Um, Miss McNaney, as I say, she was a she was then an NQT when she first came into the grammar school I was in.
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:36.159
She taught me for a number of number of subjects in my time there.
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:39.760
I wasn't quite the same person when I was 12 and 13, I'll be honest.
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:46.880
And she once encouraged me to to stand up and speak in front of the class, which I would have quite happily sat at her back and hidden.
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:56.639
Um, but no, she encouraged me to do that, and I'll always remember afterwards being words along the lines of you you were better than that than you think you are.
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.800
Um so it was a small comment, it stuck.
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:03.360
Ironically, she's now the head of the school.
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:07.599
Um so clearly spotting potential weren't her only talents.
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:18.960
Um, and she's she subsequently had me back to um to actually speak to her six formers about teaching and international teaching, which is like almost complete in the circle.
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:19.440
Yeah.
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:30.480
Um, but I've spent 20 years now working with teachers around teachers, and something must have rubbed off because both of my nieces have gone into teaching in that time.
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:37.280
And my daughter, who's about to sit at GCSE, she's planning on going into primary teaching in the years ahead.
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:45.280
So there are a number of your members that I've already said that if they want an ECT in what I think it'll be 2031, 32, all being well.
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:49.199
Um, I'll have her ready to export to one of your schools at that time.
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:56.239
Um, but yeah, so it's been a long journey, but one that definitely goes back to years gone by.
00:39:57.039 --> 00:39:57.599
That's great.
00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:00.239
Well, do be prepared to send your daughter BSME's way.
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:02.400
I'm sure I've got lots of schools that will be interested.
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:07.360
And and really interesting, Mark, that you you picked up there on a teacher that was new in their career.
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:12.960
We perhaps often think that the teachers that are going to have a big influence on us are people who've been doing it for years and years.
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:25.119
But actually, to think that a newly qualified teacher can really have that ability to spark something in in a student just by noting um talents, maybe that student hasn't identified for themselves.
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:27.599
So thank you very much for sharing that with us.
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:30.400
Um, and thank you once again for joining us today, Mark.
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:40.480
Um if you're interested in learning more about early career teacher induction, there is further information on the ESP website, that is espeducation.co.uk.
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:42.800
And there's also a contact form.
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:50.719
If you've got an individual query you'd like to ask something specific about your own situation, then you can use the contact form there to get in touch with Mark.
00:40:50.960 --> 00:41:01.679
And I'd like to wish the very best to all of the early career teachers starting their induction in the BSO accredited schools across the globe and particularly in our BSME schools.
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:04.639
I would say welcome to the best profession in the world.
00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:16.079
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of BSME Talks.
00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:25.920
I'm Deborah Forsythe, CEO of British Schools in the Middle East, the membership network that connects and supports British curriculum schools across the Middle East and North Africa.
00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:34.240
The topic of teacher training, recruitment and retention is a thorny issue currently facing schools across the world.
00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:59.359
The OECD's Education at a Glance report for 2024-25 reports an aging workforce with the younger entry pipelines remaining frighteningly low, acute shortages in at-risk subjects like maths and science, and over 9% of primary and secondary teachers across OECD countries not fully qualified.
00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:08.879
With this concerning data in mind, today's topic for discussion is early career teacher induction, ECT induction for short.
00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:26.239
We'll look at what it is, what it isn't, why it matters as the global education community strive to upskill and empower educators, and how to complete this statutory component of UK teacher training properly in an international school context.
00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:43.439
If you're a newly qualified early career teacher wondering how you can complete your statutory induction outside of England, or a school leader trying to work out how you can offer ECT induction as part of your recruitment package, this episode is definitely for you.
00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:51.359
And I'm delighted to be joined for today's episode by Mark Bignor from ESP Education, Education Success Partners.
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ESP is the Department for Education's sole specialist appropriate body for statutory ECT induction in DFE accredited British schools overseas.
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In this capacity, ESP oversees and guarantees the quality of the two-year statutory induction process for ECTs working in international British curriculum schools globally.
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So there really is no one better qualified to guide us on this important topic than Mark.
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Welcome to BSME Talks, Mark.
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It's great to have you here.
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Thanks, Deborah, and thanks for having me.
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Obviously, I've worked with BSME for 15 years now.
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I'm a regular fixture at conferences, so a lot of you listening will know me and we would have would have met in person.
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But anyone new, it's great to meet you and I hope to see you at conference in February.
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Deborah.
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Thanks, Mark.
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Yes, you're definitely one of BSME Friends and Family's group, that's for sure.
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No, Mark, um, I'd like to kick off a little bit, set the scene for the discussion, um, by looking at what ECT induction is.
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Why does it matter for a UK trained teacher beginning their career in education?
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Can you just talk us through and explain what it is we're talking about today?
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Yeah, so ECT induction.
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Formerly you might have known it as NQT induction a few years back.
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It's the two-year probationary period that a teacher completes when they've gained their qualified teacher status, their professional license to teach from the Department for Education in England.
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If they were teaching in a state-maintained school, it would be a mandated program.
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It's not mandatory in the independent sector, home or abroad, but highly encouraged, especially if you've got teachers working with you, the want to in the future teach in England.
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Okay, that's a great start.
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Now, for my next question, actually, I'm going to start by saying who is eligible for ECT induction.
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But I'd really like to unpick a little bit here the wide variety of British teaching qualifications.
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I'll often have uh teachers, trainee teachers, TAs coming to say, what should I be doing if I want a qualification?
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I've heard about QTS, IQTS, IPGCE, this assessment-only route.
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I've heard about a lot of different options.
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There are a lot of things out there on the table.
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So can you unpick those?
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Uh, talk to us a little bit about what these different qualifications are and which of them actually make you eligible for ECT induction.
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No problem.
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We could do a whole hour on that alone.
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So um, acronym bingo here.
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QTS, as I say, the qualified teacher status, it's the professional license to teach from the DFE.
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It can be gained in a number of ways.
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That's either a teacher training program in England, your traditional BE, BA, PGCE route, or internationally via either the assessment only route to QTS or the I say new, it's been around three years now.
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The IQTS program, that's a year-long teacher training program overseas.
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All of those end, irrespective of which pathway they took in the award of qualified teacher status and a DFE.
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That's the prerequisite to ECT.
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You can't complete ECT induction and have it DFE certified unless you hold QTS before that.
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So IPGCE, we can spend a lot more time on that because that gets a little bit more complex.
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The IPGCE, it's an internation recognised teacher training qualification.
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It may be something that your schools, your ministries will recognise, will it will offer work permits on the back of.
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An IPGCE, in the majority of cases, doesn't award QTS unless it's been built together, as they do with the University of Sunderland.
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Their IPGCE is now IPGCE QTF, IQTF, sorry, unless it's got the IQTS element in it and the QTS award from the DFE at the end, an IPGCE would not allow you to teach in a state school in England as a qualified teacher.
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It would not allow you onto the ECT pathway.
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And one of the big differentials when you're looking is probably the price.
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So internationally for the schools, internationally, then an IPGCE IQTS or an IQTS year-long training program is going to look something around the£9.5,000 mark, and the assessment only route to QTS, which is a program for experienced teachers with significant prior teaching experience.
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That's a one-term program of assessment.
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That's it's around the£3,500 mark.
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And an IPGC on its own can be a lot less than that£9.5,000 price mark.
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So if you're looking at one an IPGC and it's four and a half thousand pounds, five thousand pounds, it's worth asking if it is QTS awarding because it probably isn't.
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Okay, Mark, there's a lot of information there.
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I'm now gonna I'm now gonna relay that back and check.
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I've got a good understanding of this, and correct me if I've got any of this wrong.
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So in order to be eligible for ECT induction, you need to have qualified teacher status.
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And there are, I think, um, or three or maybe three and a half routes to this.
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Um, you can have done um Q, you can have got QTS via a qualification in the UK.
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So you could have studied a PGCE or a BA or a BSC in the UK, and that would give you qualified teacher status.
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You could have done an IQTS, that's an international QTS qualification internationally, which also gives you QTS.
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If you are a long-standing experienced teacher, there's an avenue where you can get QTS by assessment of the work that you have done and are already doing in schools.
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And then the half of one, and this is where perhaps um candidates need to be a little cautious.
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Some PGCEs come with a QTS and some of them don't.
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So for anybody that's looking potentially to work in the UK in the future, or on perhaps um wants to be aiming at top British curriculum schools around the world, a PGCE with IQTS that allows them to do the ECT induction would be what they would be looking for.
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Did I get that right, Mark?
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That's absolutely right.
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Yeah.
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And the um the two international pathways, the IQTS and the AOQTS, the big differential there is experience.
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So you can do an IQTS program if you've never taught.
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So you can do a teaching assistant to teacher program via IQTS in a year, assessment only QTS, a one-term assessment on the job of a teacher with significant teaching experience.
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And when I say significant teaching experience, the DFE define that as a minimum of two years teaching in a minimum of two schools in a minimum of two key stages.
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Okay, great.
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So we now know what ECT induction is, we know who it's aimed at.
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Tell me, how many newly qualified teachers access ECT internationally each year, Mark?
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What are those numbers looking like?
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Okay, there's there's no absolute definition um sort of total here because it's down to the appropriate bodies of support.
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But I'll give you an indication of our support for the sector.
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So this year we have at this point in time just over 1,000 teachers completing one uh their induction at some point across the six terms of ECT induction, and that is globally.
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So we've got teachers in the Americas, we've got teachers Europe, Africa, large concentration in the Middle East, right out to Southeast Asia and the Pacific.
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In terms of BSME, it's our biggest cohort, the Middle East is our biggest concentration of ECTs.
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And we're currently supporting this year, we've got live ECTs in over a hundred of your member schools, Deborah.
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Oh, that's really interesting.
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Uh starting with that conversation around uh the dearth of people going into teacher training, uh, it's really actually a positive mark to hear that those numbers globally are as high as they are, and really positive to hear that we've got so many of our schools uh within BSME actually part of this process of training locally those teachers that we want in our schools in the future.
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So that's really good news.
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So let's move now then from teachers and what they're looking for to to um to schools on where where teachers can do this ECT induction.
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Can any British curriculum school offer statutory ECT induction, Mark?
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Can anyone do it?
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No, um, is the short answer.
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Um, and if they could, we'd probably have more of your schools do it because the DFE uh will only allow a school to run ECT induction, register it with the DFE, have it certified by the DFE if they satisfy three legal requirements.
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And these are on a statute book in Westminster, these are set in stone.
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First is the school needs to have done a BSO inspection in the last six years.
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So despite a BSO lasting for three years, they give you six years from the date of your inspection to run the ECT program because clearly you've got a two-year window of teachers on the program to consider, so there's an overlap.
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Secondly, they need to be a member of a DFE recognized membership association.
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As you know, Deborah, you're one of those.
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So by being a BSO member, all of your members tick that box.
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The third legal requirement is they need to work with what's called an appropriate body.
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And that's where we come in at ESP as the DFE's appropriate body for BSO schools.
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There are other options.
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It would be wrong of me to say that it's a monopoly because it isn't.
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An appropriate body option for a school would be ourselves.
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Potentially, the independent schools teacher induction panel is still, but you can only work with them if, in addition to your BSE membership, we've got COBIS membership, and what is called a teaching school hub as the third option.
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And those are local authority-based clusters of schools that have almost replaced the traditional local educational authority model.
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Um, and there are, I know, some local some teacher school hubs that work within your membership.
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And I know that it's that we'll work with some new member schools as well.
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So clear there on which schools can and can't offer that.
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And important, I guess, um, those factors are important when we're talking about the quality of the induction experience for a newly qualified teacher.
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What would you say that how would you describe a really high-quality induction experience?
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Okay, so the reason that the DFE limited to BSO is that very matter of it needed to be quality and the external validation of a of a BSO inspection and the offset regulation.
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That's why they currently have no intention of changing the model from BSO for ECT.
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In school, though, they are supported by a number of people.
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They'll have an ECT mentor.
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That's normally somebody that's closer in age, experienced to them, potentially somebody that might have even relocated from the UK last year or a year before.
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Who knows what it's like to settle into the region.
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Um, they might have been out to Dubai for a holiday, but it's very different living and teaching there as a next pat.
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So that mentor, as I say, closer in age, closer in experience, within their key stage, their subject, and they're gonna be the ears on the ground for the leadership team in terms of the well-being and also the professional development needs of that teacher on the job.
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And that's all underpinned by an online self-directed framework of the early career framework.
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They're gonna be assessed, and they're gonna be assessed against the teacher's standards in their job, probably by an induction tutor who is in the leadership code.
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So their job is termally assessment to ensure that they can say that that teacher is satisfactory or better against the teacher's standards, and then all underpinned by the head of school, the principal, who are going to be making recommendations to the appropriate body at the end of the first year of induction, that that teacher is is ready to move into year two.
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And at the end of year two, the biggest recommendation that that teacher passes ECT, that the appropriate body tell the DFE that teacher has passed her ECT in a BSO school, and that it then go on to their DFE record.
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And that's an important thing because there is no there is no international version of ECT.
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The certificate that they will get when they complete their induction in a BSME school with BSO accreditation will be the exact same accreditation and certificate that one of my kids back here in Hertfordshire in England will get if they were an ECT.
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So there's in terms of future portability, so those teachers that want to have a three, four, five-year teaching experience at the start of their careers, then come back to England to settle down, they're going to bring that qualification with them.
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And it's going to be exactly the same as if they'd stayed at home.
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So no issues with transferability in terms of coming home at any time or moving within the high quality schools in the sector.
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Thanks, Mark.
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And and really positive there to hear that you've got an academic mentor, if you like, who's doing the assessment and actually working on the teaching quality, but you've got a mentor in there who's looking after the well-being of that newly qualified teacher as well and supporting them in a more holistic way, not just in terms of their workload.
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I think that's really quite important when you consider that teaching can be quite a stressful environment in which to work.
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Yeah, and that's why they're quite often separated in terms of their experiences, in terms of the people supporting them.
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But that's for the school running the program to determine the best person for the individual teacher.
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So we've we've talked there about quality, Mark, um, and and you're responsible for that quality.
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Um so as the AB responsible for quality assuring, the this provision internationally, how do you go about ensuring that this induction that's taking place in overseas schools meets the same standards as induction in a UK school?
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Okay, so I'm a regular in the region, I'm a regular in a number of your schools, but as I say, we run this globally.
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We've got schools in Kathmandu, for example, with one ECT.
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Um, so it is a completely, it can run as a completely distance learning model, a distance supported model.
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Um, but we do have some clear guidance and caveats here that we have to attach to the program to ensure that we can say to the DFE that the induction running in school X is as comparable as possible to it would be in a school in England.
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So what we're looking at is we're looking at the statutory entitlements running.
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So the statutory entitlements are those sort of supports that I talked about of the mentor, the tutor, um, of time off timetable for induction-related activities, engagement in CPD, um, support in school, and similar CPD support in BSO schools in particular and CSME schools is significantly higher than you would get in a state school as standard.
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So a school-based CPD program, though the opportunities that your various CPD providers offer, they all come into play.
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And we do that once a year by what's got a glamorous title of a fidelity check.
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And essentially, that means that we do check with the induction lead in the school.
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So that might be the principal, that might be a member of the leadership team that's taken overall responsibility for the program.
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And we will go through the program, we'll we'll talk about the support teachers are receiving, we'll ask some probing questions around that support, and it'll all get documented to the DFE so that they know that the program running in one of your member schools in Qatar or Dubai, wherever they may be, is, as I say, broadly comparable with those international nuances of a school in England.
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What the DFE talk about a lot is the breadth and depth.
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So schools are expected to cover the breadth and depth of the requirements in England, depending upon their calendars, their academic years, worst case scenario, the last two terms of last year, the conflict.
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Clearly, we have to have some reaction to the regional issues as well in the program.
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But we're there to guide you.
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That's really the role of the AB is advice, guidance, and support to make sure your school is supported and are as compliant.
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Should the DFE say we want to do a do a compliance check on a school.
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Okay, that that's really helpful, Mark.
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And nice to hear there that we we're allowing for nuances because obviously every international context is going to be slightly different.
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You talked about assessment there.
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Um you also talk about conflict, so I'm going to bring these two together.
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Um, so you've said that there's an assessor within the school and they will assess the early career teachers' progress through the program.
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How is that assessment done?
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What sort of evidence needs to be collected?
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And as an addendum, what happens in a conflict situation like we had in the Middle East in term three of last year, when schools are online, how does that impact an early career teacher that's trying to collect evidence for their assessment?
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So to gain QTS on any of those programs we we talked about a few minutes ago, a teacher has to reach the level of satisfactory against the teacher standards.
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To pass their ECT, their evidence into the DFE, they can maintain that level of satisfactory over an extended period, in the majority of cases, the equivalent of six academic terms, two years.
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So what they're doing is the tutor is assessing them in a number of ways.
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They'd be having half-termly, and I'm talking in terms of UK half-terms here, so where terms are slightly different, we have to adjust it.
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So half-termly lesson observation against the teacher standards, where they're getting initial verbal feedback, then written feedback that they can use for their evidence of their performance.
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They're having a termly assessment against the teacher standards, and what that's doing is that's capturing their performance that term.
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And the depending on the term of induction they're in, what we look for, what the DFE look for is different.
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So for a teacher that came out to the Middle East at the start of this academic year, the assessment we're going to get at the end of this term is really going to be looking more about have they settled into the school?
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Do they understand the culture?
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Do they understand the working practices with the local ministries?
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Do they understand how teaching in a BSME school in Q8 is different to their experiences of teaching in England?
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Those regulatory differences, the day-to-day operational differences, as they go through the program, it gets more in terms of more depth in terms of their actual teaching against the teacher standards.
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But the school are going to judge are they on course to be satisfactory or better by the end of induction at the end of each of those terms.
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If they were to drop below the required level, then it's important to stress that they haven't failed that term.
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They will just get, it will trigger additional support from us at the appropriate body to the school, from the school to the ECT, potentially even from us directly to the ECT, to make sure that by the end of the next term of induction they're at the required level.
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It's important to stress that because while I say satisfactory, it's not going to be a continuum straight across, it's going to peaks and drops.
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Because they'll get that additional support.
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Because it's important failure is a specific legal term in induction law.
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If you were to fail your induction, you will be barred from teaching in a state-maintained school in England for life.
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So it's it's a it's a one-shot induction in terms of if you were to fail it.
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However, you know, we've got a f over a thousand at the moment, some years in uh it's lower than that.
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But if you multiply DSA's been around for 15 years, I've been doing this for 15 years.
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It's several thousand teachers in that time have gone through the program.
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I've had less than a dozen failures.
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Because a failure in all cases will relate to criminality or safeguarding when that person shouldn't be in the classroom.
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If we got to the end of two years and a teacher was below the required level, then the school would apply for an extension.
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TF3 to give additional support in another in a term, maybe two terms, of a third year of induction with the support of the A B in that time.
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When it comes to evidence, breadth and depth again comes into play if you read the DFE information.
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They're expected to collate and a portfolio that shows their performance in the classroom.
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We suggest that looks like the lesson observation feedback I've already talked about.
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Notes from their mentor meetings, which they're having weekly in year one, fortnightly in year two, and two or three pieces of evidence per standard per term of induction.
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So I'm not worried about standard one, A, one, B, one, C, but standard one, two or three pieces of high quality evidence each term.
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So if you're multiplying that over six terms, you're at sort of 1820 pieces of evidence per standard.
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That allows us to be able to say we've got a real feel for that teacher in the classroom when we're when we're validating the school judgment on the outcome of induction.
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:07.279
When I did this in UK, um in a local authority, leverage files like those you can see behind me, they bring those along, they stick them on the table and say, aren't I brilliant?
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:08.079
Look at all of this.
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:10.559
And you didn't have time to really go through it.
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:15.279
So we we ask them for quality, not quantity, in any of their evidence.
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:22.400
And moving on to your conflict question, they can do that as well via online learning.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:27.200
So there are ways that you can capture evidence of your teaching during online learning.
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:36.079
There are clearly ways that lessons can be observed online, and also those assessment meetings, they can be completed as an online one-to-one meeting.
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:49.519
So when we had the conflict, um, we revisited with DFE the guidance that we'd released in COVID, which was very, very similar about online teaching and brought it up to date for for the last couple of turns of last year.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:57.759
Fortunately, at this stage, um, we're fairly stable in terms of actually teaching in person.
00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:06.079
But if we were to revisit online learning at any point in the future, that that assessment guidance would would come back into play and would be updated accordingly.
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:08.000
We're hoping we're not tempting fate there, Mark.
00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:09.359
We're hoping we're very much going to be staying.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.400
I'm wanting to put that on the shelf for a few years.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:13.680
Yeah, we certainly are.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:15.759
But good experience, I guess, for teachers.
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:21.200
As you say, there's uh you never quite know when that might happen wherever you are in the world for different reasons.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.960
So to have had that experience as part of your training is is no bad thing.
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:38.799
Really positive for me there, Mark, to hear about the fact that um this is really not about being judgmental of teachers, but it's about supporting them and helping them to reach that standard that we want high-quality teachers to be at.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:45.759
And that there is that additional support, extra time required if teachers need that to actually get to the point that they need to get to.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:54.079
So that's yeah, the word the word you use there of judgmental is I think is key, Deborah, because I describe it as a developmental, not judgmental program.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:25:06.720
It's there to enhance their quality and to put support in if they need it, but it's it's not about picking thought, it's about positive developmental journey.
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:08.720
Yeah, sounds good.
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:13.599
Now you spoke earlier, Mark, about portability of the ECT induction.
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:16.799
Um, I'm gonna ask about portability of the process now.
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:29.680
So if we've we've got somebody listening in today who's already started their early career teacher induction, say in the UK, but they're thinking that they'd quite like to move internationally, but they they're now they will be halfway through a process.
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:34.160
Is it possible for teachers to move partway through that two-year process?
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:57.200
It is it quite common actually in your schools that they will receive an ECT that's done year one of their induction in England while they're looking for the perfect job overseas, because clearly, if you think about your recruitment windows, um a teacher will be starting their ECT in September, potentially looking at jobs in November, December for the following academic years.
00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:05.119
So we see probably around 10 to 15% of our teachers that we register every year have done some induction elsewhere.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:18.079
So, what would happen if I was the ECT and I'm teaching in a school in England, um, and I did year one in England, so terms one to three, then I'd be assessed against the standards by the school and the appropriate body in England.
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:26.799
When I left that school, I'd have that put onto my DFE record and it would sit there to say Mark Bignor has completed three terms of induction.
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:40.480
And when I then go into an eligible school, home or abroad, and they look at my DFE record with their appropriate body partner, the appropriate body would say, Mark's already done three terms, he only needs to do terms four, five, and six with you.
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:52.400
So essentially, you can do your induction over multiple schools, um, however, it tends to, in reality, be a year, let's see somewhere, and then moving to another school for year two.
00:26:52.960 --> 00:27:05.519
Um, schools receiving ECTs that have done induction elsewhere, they don't need to worry about the quality of that induction because it's been signed off, it's been set on the DFE record.
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:16.720
But what we do recommend they get hold of is the assessments from the previous school, um, because that will identify any developmental areas that have been picked up, any concerns that the schools may have had.
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:24.559
So it allows the receiving school to support that teacher from day one or to test do they think that that assessment was accurate?
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.119
So it gives them a starting point to go from.
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:28.480
But yes, you can move.
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:39.039
And similarly, if you've got an ECT in a BSME school, for some reason, personal family circumstances has to return home, or would release them from induction.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:50.720
They would then I would then put it onto their record, they completed three terms in that school, and then they would be picked up back at home by a teaching school hub and do terms four, five, and six domestically.
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:52.480
So, yes, it is portable.
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.880
There is no length of time in which if they started, they need to finish.
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.880
That's probably an important one because there's a miffed abuse there.
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:05.920
Because if you hit Google, it will say QTS elapses after five years and you have to start again.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:20.319
If you have started your ECT induction, then there is no time limit on commencing the remainder of it, in the same way as, as I say, it's not mandated in the independent sector home report that you do it at all.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:27.680
Um, so no, they would they can they can take it back, they can make it in the future re-engage.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:45.519
But if they were to move from a BSME BSO school to a BSME non-BSO school, they would not be able to re-engage until either that receiving school gained their BSO accreditation or they moved to a BSO school abroad in the future or to an eligible school in England.
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:52.160
So portability, yes, with some restrictions onto the types of school.
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:55.839
Yeah, yeah, tying into what we talked about eligibility earlier.
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:03.279
Yeah, so anybody uh mid-program move looking to move really needs to look for a school that definitely has that BSO accreditation.
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:04.880
Really, really good there to you.
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:09.440
I actually hadn't realised, Mark, that you could have that break in the middle um of the induction.
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:16.319
Just thinking that's really positive, say for somebody who has a break for children, maybe in the middle of that.
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:18.720
Um, it doesn't mean that you it's all been a waste of time.
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.640
You can sort of park that and come back to it in the future.
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:23.039
Yeah.
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:24.400
Okay, lovely.
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:27.200
Um, what else did I want to ask you about?
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:39.279
Um, oh yeah, we'd spoken earlier about these um teachers with long experience, but that don't have the the have not done the early career teacher induction and don't so don't have this sort of formal qualification.
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:42.799
Now we talked about the fact that they have a different process.
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:47.839
Can you talk to us about what that what is required from that long-serving teacher?
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:50.079
I know this is called the assessment only route.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:54.960
Talk us through a little bit what's required of that teacher and what the time frame is for that scenario.
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:02.000
Okay, so the assessment only route to QTS that is a 12-week on-the-job assessment.
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:06.880
So there is no to be eligible for that, they need to have had that experience I spoke about.
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:14.000
I call it the rule of two, two years cumulative teaching experience in a minimum of two schools, in a minimum of two key stages.
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:18.000
And that's whole class teaching that can be mapped against the teacher standards.
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:28.799
So it doesn't need to be a BSO school, it doesn't even need to be a British curriculum school, but as long as it can be mapped against the teacher standards, that previous experience, they would be in scope.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.240
And both both international teaching pathways, they're postgraduate.
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:33.519
I didn't mention that earlier.
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.920
So they have some academic basis that is the same on IQTS and AO.
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:45.440
But if they were accepted onto AO, they would apply in one term, they'd be interviewed for the program and offered a place for the following term.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:57.920
They would then do a 12-week assessment on the job with a midpoint assessment from the university or ITT provider, and then a final assessment.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:02.559
That in the majority of cases is still completed distance.
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:08.960
Um, so there is no, in the majority of cases, costs of flying people out to do a half-day assessment.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:16.160
So we're still looking at collecting pretty much the same type of evidence, I guess, that we were talking about earlier for assessment.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:17.519
Very much so.
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:23.119
They're building up, they're building a portfolio to show they can reach the level of satisfactory with the university's guidance.
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:25.119
They can be assessed at any point.
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:29.359
Oh, sorry, Deborah, they can be assessed at any point from the middle of midpoint assessment.
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:35.519
So one question I often get in your part of the world is term three, we finish early, we only have eight weeks.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:36.559
Is it possible?
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:45.599
They can they can complete AOQTS in term three in a BSME school, especially in Q8, where they um that tends to be the one where people worry.
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:49.359
Um they because they can be assessed from the midpoint.
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:54.960
So if at the midpoint assessment they are deemed to be on track, they can then bring forward the final assessment.
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.359
So 12 weeks is the absolute maximum.
00:31:57.599 --> 00:32:08.559
It's a program of really between eight and twelve weeks, which then will award subject to assessment QTS at the end, and they can move on to ECT from there.
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:24.799
Okay, and just to clarify, you'd said that um with the experience needing to be in two schools, that that didn't have to be a BSO school, but presumably the the person who's applying for assessment only needs to be in a BSO school at the time of application, is that right?
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:31.599
No, the QTS pathways, IQTS and AO, they can be completed in a non-BSO setting.
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:32.000
Oh, right.
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:32.160
Okay.
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.920
ECT is limited to BSO.
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:46.160
It's for the university or the ITT provider to have their own infrastructure of quality assuring the school that they're working in.
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:58.480
So membership of BSME is one of those criteria that I know a number of them think actually by being BSME, even if you're not at BSO, you've got you've gone through that strict criteria for membership of BSME.
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:07.440
So I would I would struggle to think of um a scenario within your membership where they wouldn't be able to run IQTS or AOQTS in school.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:08.079
Okay.
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:09.279
Right.
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:14.559
And we've spoken low about teachers, um, the teacher side of things.
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:18.000
And I want us to focus a little bit now on the school side of things.
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:30.160
So for a BSME school who is considering offering ECT induction, maybe hasn't done this before, what are the benefits to them in terms of recruitment, retention, and teacher development?
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:34.319
Um, so why would they want to go down this route of offering it?
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:41.359
And if they decided they wanted to, what are the practical steps and what are the costs involved in getting this set up in their school?
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.079
Okay, so I'll talk frankly here.
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:51.599
One of the big draws is recruitment, is the ability to put in your adverts in TES or wherever you're placing them.
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.960
That we're a BSO school, we run ECT induction.
00:33:55.039 --> 00:34:07.839
You can come out to us straight from teacher training with all that energy, those time to travel and teach at the same time, and continue your DFE journey of qualification by completing your ECT with us.
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:11.840
I see a lot of schools that we work with use it as a recruitment tool.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:19.599
Some even sponsor the induction as part of the tool um in terms of recruitment.
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:24.559
Some look at it in terms of, especially with IQTS, in terms of growing your own.
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:35.599
So if you've got TAs that want to become qualified teachers, they can gain a QTS in a year via IQTS, then they can do a two-year ECT program.
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:46.719
In three years, somebody that's never been in a classroom could be in a BSME, BSO school, qualified at the same level as a teacher in a school in England.
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:52.639
Um, and that offers opportunities for the future, obviously, should they wish to move.
00:34:52.800 --> 00:35:10.159
Um, spousal partners, quite often we get that scenario where people have gone abroad not with a teacher as the as the main lead, they've ended up working in school, they found an appetite for teaching, they want to do that so that when they can move move on or move home, they can both teach.
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:13.440
So, all of those scenarios come into play.
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:15.440
Recruitment is a big piece of it.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:24.079
Um, and also we all know schools have budgets, staffing budgets to balance in terms of levels of experience.
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:29.519
So recruiting an ACT may give you opportunities else elsewhere in your recruitment budget.
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:43.039
But in terms of the costs of induction, this is where you're gonna be a bit shocked because this is a service where legally, as the appropriate body, we cannot make a penny of profit.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:54.239
It can only cover the costs that we bring in from induction services, have to cover the cost of delivering the service, but we cannot make any profit off the back of the service.
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:57.360
So I'm gonna be a little bit glib here.
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:07.679
We meet with a DFE once a year, we meet with our appropriate body board, and I project the number of ECTs that we're we feel may come into the service within the year.
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:22.800
Projected costs of delivering the service, including those quality assurance visits, um, being out in the various regions throughout the year, and X divided by Y with a margin for error, give you your annual pricing per ECT.
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:33.519
What I said earlier about ISTIP, like with a designated appropriate body for British schools overseas, they're the designated appropriate body for independent schools in England.
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:38.239
They have a slightly different delivery model, it has a lot more face-to-face involvement.
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:49.519
Oddly, this is the only service where a British school overseas is accessing it, if they do it through us, at less than they would be if they're an independent school in England.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:55.760
Um, I know that everything else comes with a markup because of the legal restrictions around the pricing element.
00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:04.320
Actually, you're accessing this internationally at a price lower than you would be if you were leading a BS uh British school in independent school in England.
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:05.760
That's really good news, Mark.
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:09.360
As a as a not-for-profit, BSME is obviously a not-for-profit organisation.
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:12.800
I really like to hear that this is a not-for-profit process.
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:16.960
And to hear that we can get it cheaper overseas than the UK, that's very unusual.
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:18.800
So very good news there for everybody.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:20.000
Yeah, it's an oddity.
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:21.760
A nice oddity to have.
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:22.719
Right, Mark.
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:24.800
I think um I I've run out of questions.
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:40.239
I think that wraps up sort of uh giving us a really clear picture today of what ECT induction is, who it's for, why it's important, who can do it, where you can do it, how it works, what it allows you to do when you've got it.
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:43.039
So lots of really, really useful information there.
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:48.719
Um before we actually wrap up though, Mark, I'm going to ask you one question, nothing to do with ECT induction at all.
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:52.079
Um, but it is one of our BSME closing questions.
00:37:52.480 --> 00:38:03.519
We all know that teacher influence has a ripple effect and can go on way beyond what a teacher might imagine its impact is at the time that they're in that classroom.
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:15.280
So I'd like you, Mark, to look back on your dim and distant childhood and schooling and talk to us about a teacher that's maybe had a long-standing impact on you.
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:16.719
I'll give you one.
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:24.400
Um, she was in the equivalent of her early career when when I was a quarter of a century ago in school.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:32.480
Um, Miss McNaney, as I say, she was a she was then an NQT when she first came into the grammar school I was in.
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:36.159
She taught me for a number of number of subjects in my time there.
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:39.760
I wasn't quite the same person when I was 12 and 13, I'll be honest.
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:46.880
And she once encouraged me to to stand up and speak in front of the class, which I would have quite happily sat at her back and hidden.
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:56.639
Um, but no, she encouraged me to do that, and I'll always remember afterwards being words along the lines of you you were better than that than you think you are.
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.800
Um so it was a small comment, it stuck.
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:03.360
Ironically, she's now the head of the school.
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:07.599
Um so clearly spotting potential weren't her only talents.
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:18.960
Um, and she's she subsequently had me back to um to actually speak to her six formers about teaching and international teaching, which is like almost complete in the circle.
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:19.440
Yeah.
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:30.480
Um, but I've spent 20 years now working with teachers around teachers, and something must have rubbed off because both of my nieces have gone into teaching in that time.
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:37.280
And my daughter, who's about to sit at GCSE, she's planning on going into primary teaching in the years ahead.
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:45.280
So there are a number of your members that I've already said that if they want an ECT in what I think it'll be 2031, 32, all being well.
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:49.199
Um, I'll have her ready to export to one of your schools at that time.
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:56.239
Um, but yeah, so it's been a long journey, but one that definitely goes back to years gone by.
00:39:57.039 --> 00:39:57.599
That's great.
00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:00.239
Well, do be prepared to send your daughter BSME's way.
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:02.400
I'm sure I've got lots of schools that will be interested.
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:07.360
And and really interesting, Mark, that you you picked up there on a teacher that was new in their career.
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:12.960
We perhaps often think that the teachers that are going to have a big influence on us are people who've been doing it for years and years.
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:25.119
But actually, to think that a newly qualified teacher can really have that ability to spark something in in a student just by noting um talents, maybe that student hasn't identified for themselves.
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:27.599
So thank you very much for sharing that with us.
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:30.400
Um, and thank you once again for joining us today, Mark.
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:40.480
Um if you're interested in learning more about early career teacher induction, there is further information on the ESP website, that is espeducation.co.uk.
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:42.800
And there's also a contact form.
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:50.719
If you've got an individual query you'd like to ask something specific about your own situation, then you can use the contact form there to get in touch with Mark.
00:40:50.960 --> 00:41:01.679
And I'd like to wish the very best to all of the early career teachers starting their induction in the BSO accredited schools across the globe and particularly in our BSME schools.
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:04.639
I would say welcome to the best profession in the world.
