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Welcome, Joseph and Shelley, to Ask the Experts
podcast.
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Thank you, Elka.
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It's an honor to be here.
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Thank you.
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It's an honor.
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It's my pleasure.
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What expensive brand mistakes you have seen
brand great brands make, and what has cost
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them?
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Reputation or money?
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Well, I was involved in an incident at the Ritz
Carlton.
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I probably shouldn't be telling, but here it
is.
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Somebody was doing a site review for whether or
not they were gonna do a convention at this
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particular property, and they received a survey
in advance about the things that they preferred
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to have during their their visit.
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And, literally, they requested Diet Coke in
their room.
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And so instead, they event the the person who
is responsible for those amenities provided
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Diet Pepsi, let's say.
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If it was Diet Coke, wanted they provided the
alternate brand.
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And, literally, there was a message to these
folks that if you can't get the drink right
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when you ask, then I'm not gonna spend for this
convention.
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And that really was on a magnitude of hundreds
of thousands of dollars of lost revenue over a
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single can of beverage.
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The lesson, obviously, if you're gonna ask, you
better deliver.
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Better to not even ask than to ask and fail.
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And better yet, if you could have figured that
out some other way before the the person
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arrived on property, So you had that preferred
beverage there available, and they went, how
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how did you know?
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Absolutely.
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And create that wow experience before they get
there.
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Absolutely.
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100%.
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So so, Joseph, walk us through brands such as
Ritz Carlton and Starbucks.
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How do these establishments create magic for
customers?
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Well, in that instance, I showed how they
unwowed somebody, right, and didn't create
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magic.
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But most of the time, you're gonna look at a a
brand more so, I think, Ritz Carlton today.
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Starbucks is trying to go back to the soul of
this.
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So understand early on, the Ritz Carlton was
much I'm sorry.
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The Starbucks was much better at having their
baristas understand they were creating
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uplifting moments in the cafe environment, and
they trained folks on how to know somebody's
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name and backstory, to have their drink ready
when they walked in the door when they saw them
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coming in, if they, you know, knew the dog's
name to be able to make the the the puppuccino,
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for the pup while it was coming through the
drive through lane.
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All of those things, even inserting a camera
into drive through, which was really novel at
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time so you could look into the car and see who
was in there and be able to provide a treat for
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them when they came around.
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All of those things were elements of design and
selecting people and telling them, what do we
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want everybody who comes into this place to
feel?
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We are obligated to try to engineer an outcome
just as a manufacturing plant might wanna
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engineer a point zero zero one defect outcome
when they take consistent raw materials,
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processes.
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And while we are the people who are coming in
are not consistent, so we have to nuance it.
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But we still have to have some basic processes
that increase the probability they will feel
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this as well as encounter operational
excellence throughout the journey.
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So they define the destination.
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They select people who can do it.
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They build processes that generally will get
you there, and then they encourage our people
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to nuance those processes to ensure the
greatest likelihood that the individual in
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front of them will walk out with the outcome
they desire.
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Absolutely.
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And as a leadership and customer experience
expert, Joseph, reputation is everything.
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What is the closest that you have seen a brand
come to destroy that public trust overnight?
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Well, I mean, thank goodness these have not
been brands that I've worked with.
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But I I think if you articulate your values
publicly and then you behave alternative to
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those values in your decision making,
reputationally, it's almost non survivable.
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So you'll take a brand, and this is a historic
brand.
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A lot of a lot of listeners may have to Google
this, but Enron, which really had as a value
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proposition in that oil sector, they had the
value proposition of integrity.
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So they said, we are the integrity brand.
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And then their behaviors in the boardroom were
far from demonstrating consistency of behavior
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with that claim.
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And I think whenever you claim integrity where
you're supposed to be, like, an integer whole,
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the whole action and the whole word, and you
don't operate from it, you implode.
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And that brand certainly did implode.
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I think in modern iterations, you know,
anything that gets you viral negative press is
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normally a reflection of you not training your
people well or you not handling a service
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breakdown well, and that becomes viral.
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And it can completely work against all the
marketing dollars you've spent to try to get
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people to trust you.
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And and I think about this, and and I'll make
it really short, just that we put deposits in
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the reservoir of trust every single day with
our customers.
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You gotta be careful when you do a withdrawal.
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If you don't have enough deposits in there and
that withdrawal is too big, reputationally,
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you're done.
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You can take some hits above the waterline on
your ship.
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You can't take the hits below the waterline.
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And so what are those hits below the waterline?
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They're ones where you have made too big of a
mistake and you haven't invested in trust so
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that people will forgive the mistake.
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Right.
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And trust trust is everything.
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We can it takes it takes a long time to build
upon a trust, but it can easily just be
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destroyed just like that if we're not careful
as to how, you know, how do we conduct
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ourselves in business, etcetera.
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Absolutely.
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Yes.
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And, Joseph, you have seen training at the
highest level with the iconic brands you have
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worked with.
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How do the bigger brands, the iconic brands,
how did they train which mediocre brands do not
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take the time to invest in their employees, in
their teams?
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Walk us
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through I I would I'll give I'll stay with the
Ritz Carlton because we've been using it as an
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example.
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First off, they're gonna select people who are
capable of being trained.
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I think that's important.
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And so they'll use a lot of talent selection
tools, and they'll look at you know, if we're
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hiring for front desk, we're gonna hire
somebody, believe it or not, who doesn't have
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high levels of empathy.
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And the reason for that is that that front desk
with all that volume, if everybody's problems
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are coming at you, you don't want people who
are overly empathic to the point where they are
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immobilized by feeling all that pain all day
long.
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But they hire for high levels of curiosity.
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So people who are at the front desk are trying
to problem solve constantly.
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Well, what else what when did that start?
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What's happening?
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How do I make sure that we get and
resourcefulness.
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So, yes, adequate levels of empathy, but not
they're not pegging the empathy scale.
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So selecting first.
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Once you've selected, then you have to onboard,
and you have to say, okay.
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We wanna make sure you understand the culture
that we're operating in.
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Once we're past the culture, let's now train
you to the skill set.
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Let's certify you to the skill set.
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So if you're in housekeeping, you're a room
attendant, we're gonna make sure you can do
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that folded corner of the Ritz Carlton way
certifiably, predictably, consistently.
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We're gonna teach you.
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We're gonna, on the job, train you on that.
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We're gonna verify your skill set, and we're
gonna audit your rooms.
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We're gonna recertify you on an annualized
basis.
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And and people who know this stuff love that
because it just verifies it, that they are
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super competent.
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So all of those elements are there.
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And I think this this notion that you teach
somebody once and it's good, you're constantly
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looking at how do we can can how do we groom
that behavior even further.
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Absolutely.
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What's the unreasonable expectation elite
brands choose?
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Well, the And and
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how do they meet those expectations?
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I you know, you take take the risk girl to the
founder of it, chooses perfection.
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He doesn't accept anything but perfection, so
he says.
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And then if you accepted excellence, you would
not continue to aspire once you get 90%.
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So there there's this attitude, the haughtiness
to we will perceive x you know, pursue
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excellence.
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In real truth, I think what what the the
goalpost is here is to be able to have some
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behavioral indicators against standards.
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So what are our standards and how often do we
hit those standards?
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What are our KPIs and whether or not we are
executing?
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So if it's percentage of people coming in the
door who come in as a result of referrals as
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opposed to organic traffic, let's say, you're
gonna track that as a sign of whether or not we
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are continuing to move the needle in the
direction of wowing customers to the point
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where there are Salesforce.
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Right?
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So it it changes by organization, I think, but
there's almost always a combination of customer
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voice, what are our customers telling us,
customer behavior, what are we seeing in the
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customer's financial performance, what are we
seeing our numbers move in the direction of as
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a lagging indicator of all these other things
that are enabling us an easier way to go out
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there and do business.
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Mhmm.
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If brands choose a speed and perfection, most
often, how do brands choose?
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Is it the speed or the perfection?
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Could it be the combination of both?
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And how do we walk us through the steps.
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How do brands
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Well, I think there are there are brands that
live and die by speed.
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Like, if you're in a convenient sector like,
you know, quick service restaurants, you better
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be fast because people are coming there, and
the primary component of your value proposition
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is speed.
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In luxury, for example, we used to think, oh,
speed was not important at all because you're
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gonna luxuriate you.
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We could slowly deliver the service, and that
is not true.
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The modern consumer wants speed, and they want
speed in all things.
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They want convenience in all things.
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They want frictionless in all things.
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That is part of the race that we're all on.
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It's why technology has its important role in
all of our businesses.
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There are some brands that have a value
proposition above convenience and speed and for
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which they can charge more.
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I mean, if all I do is make it easy and fast,
I'm probably gonna get commoditized, and I'm
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gonna have to have the best technology in
place.
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And that's all on the transaction, on the
utility.
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Right?
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If I really care about relationship with my
client, I'm probably gonna have to remove all
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of the dissatisfiers with technology, add some
satisfiers through technology and convenience,
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but then I'm gonna have to add delight to the
people that I bring into the equation.
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Well, if that's my value proposition, I need to
execute speed in the background, and I need to
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execute these high value perfection,
emotionality driven outcomes in the foreground.
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And and I think that's the art of this whole
thing in business is knowing who you are and
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how much to have of what and when to put what
where.
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And if you do that well, you create really
lovely customer journeys that are brand
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congruent, that cause people to talk about you,
and to differentiate you from people who have
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no clue what they're putting together.
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100%.
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What's the fastest way to destroy a brand as
you're building the brand?
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And you're thinking you you're building the
internal culture because culture is everything,
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and it's how your team, your employees, they
thrive when a culture is conducive.
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So how do you how you're building how do you
destroy, but at the same time, you know, you're
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building the culture.
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And so how do we how do brands need to maintain
themselves
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in this moment?
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Yeah.
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I think there's a soulless approach to a lot of
this stuff.
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Right?
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Like, it's very analytic.
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Like, what does our customer need?
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What do we wanna be in the market?
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I mean, whenever you start talking about those
things frequently, you're getting farther away
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from the authentic truth of who you are.
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You know, most of us come into business, and we
have a personality.
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We have things that we value, we believe in.
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We are trying to solve a problem for the
universe.
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We really wanna believe that we're gonna make
the world a better place through our solutions.
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If we can get super clear about what is the
uniqueness of who we are and why our solution
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is unique and who we serve well, and we just
focus on that and drive it and then keep
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improving it, we tend to build great brands.
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Where we get lost is, well, who else could I
appeal to?
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What else might I who else might like what I
do?
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Or maybe they're not, but maybe I could add a
couple of tweaks or features to our culture or
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brand so we can get them in the door and have
more traffic.
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At some point, we stop being excellent when we
don't take the risk of excellence.
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And the risk of excellence is to say, I'm not
gonna be everything that will make me mediocre.
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I'm gonna be what keeps me excellent.
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And so a lot of brands, I think.
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I have a friend of mine who's who teaches in
business school.
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I'm also a a professor, but he teaches
specifically this idea that there will always
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be a great a great restaurant a a great, you
know, restaurant chain that will have mainly
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00:13:27,785 --> 00:13:30,105
french fries and hamburgers and a milkshake.
226
00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,959
And they'll be really good for a long, long
time.
227
00:13:32,959 --> 00:13:35,679
And all of a sudden, they'll start thinking,
well, maybe we should get in that chicken
228
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:37,759
market or maybe we should do salads.
229
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,679
And then before you know it, their hamburgers
and their milkshakes and their french fries are
230
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:42,480
not so that great.
231
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:43,039
And guess what?
232
00:13:43,039 --> 00:13:45,360
There'll be another brand that comes up that
just does those three things.
233
00:13:45,815 --> 00:13:52,214
And I think a lot of times in building our
brand, we are not focused on the core and
234
00:13:52,214 --> 00:13:58,454
really executing that well, and we drift into
all these adjacencies that dilute the overall
235
00:13:58,454 --> 00:14:02,830
quality of our offerings while we think we're
appealing to broader audiences.
236
00:14:03,470 --> 00:14:04,110
Right.
237
00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:04,590
Exactly.
238
00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:10,910
And and in those moments, would you suggest,
you know, the the owner of the establishment
239
00:14:10,910 --> 00:14:17,625
take a survey before you introduce other, you
know, menu offerings.
240
00:14:17,625 --> 00:14:17,865
Yeah.
241
00:14:17,865 --> 00:14:23,225
I really wanna I I think that you really have
to say, does this fit our core brand?
242
00:14:23,544 --> 00:14:31,429
Are we doing this because it is an extension of
our essence, or are we reaching?
243
00:14:31,429 --> 00:14:38,070
Are we are we stretching the brand elasticity
to the point that we break the brand the rubber
244
00:14:38,070 --> 00:14:38,789
band, really?
245
00:14:40,034 --> 00:14:40,995
Stretching is good.
246
00:14:40,995 --> 00:14:42,754
We don't wanna always be predictable.
247
00:14:42,754 --> 00:14:44,194
I'm not trying to suggest that.
248
00:14:44,194 --> 00:14:48,514
I just think sometimes we reach because we
wanna be we just want more people.
249
00:14:48,514 --> 00:14:52,194
You see it in a lot of brands that maybe have
started luxury, and then they trade down
250
00:14:52,194 --> 00:14:55,714
market, and then they lose their reputation for
being luxury anymore.
251
00:14:56,399 --> 00:14:57,679
You know?
252
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:03,360
It's better to kinda be affordable luxury and
reach for that as opposed to go from luxury to
253
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,279
try to be mass.
254
00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:06,320
I'll tell you that.
255
00:15:06,879 --> 00:15:07,919
Absolutely.
256
00:15:07,919 --> 00:15:08,559
Exactly.
257
00:15:08,559 --> 00:15:13,695
It's better to go from bottom to the top than
top to the bottom because you you lose your
258
00:15:13,695 --> 00:15:15,134
reputation in that way.
259
00:15:15,134 --> 00:15:15,615
And
260
00:15:16,095 --> 00:15:20,735
you can normally keep value and then, you know,
create another tier of people who want beyond
261
00:15:20,735 --> 00:15:22,414
just the value offering.
262
00:15:22,894 --> 00:15:23,375
But it's
263
00:15:23,375 --> 00:15:28,960
hard to become a you know, to be a premium band
and then go down and offer value as your key
264
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:29,600
driver.
265
00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:31,120
Right.
266
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:40,335
So, Joseph, walk us through a brand that was
failing badly, but nobody internally was
267
00:15:40,335 --> 00:15:43,535
talking about how they were failing.
268
00:15:43,855 --> 00:15:48,415
And how did you go into the establishment and
fix the problem?
269
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,160
So the Pike Place Fish Market comes to mind.
270
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,240
It's one of my first opportunities.
271
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,879
The owner of the Pike Place Fish Market finally
reached out because he was near bankruptcy.
272
00:15:57,879 --> 00:15:59,720
I mean, that's the reason he reached out.
273
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,080
I don't think he would have done it until then.
274
00:16:01,725 --> 00:16:06,524
They were failing badly because they had the
same product that everybody else had.
275
00:16:07,084 --> 00:16:09,884
They had the same experience everybody else
had.
276
00:16:10,684 --> 00:16:15,404
In terms of the way they delivered it, they
just had really cranky employees because the
277
00:16:15,404 --> 00:16:16,845
owner was pretty cranky.
278
00:16:16,845 --> 00:16:19,299
So he created a pretty negativistic culture.
279
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:22,899
They deliver the product in the same
environment, same space.
280
00:16:22,899 --> 00:16:28,580
Everything else was really pretty much parity
with their competitors, and he wasn't winning.
281
00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:30,980
And then he decided he was gonna try to get
better product.
282
00:16:31,274 --> 00:16:31,595
Right?
283
00:16:31,595 --> 00:16:36,154
So he was gonna buy fish from the fishing boats
instead of get the fish from the same
284
00:16:36,154 --> 00:16:37,995
distributors that the other guys did.
285
00:16:37,995 --> 00:16:39,835
And he thought he'd have an improved product.
286
00:16:40,075 --> 00:16:41,195
It just cost him more money.
287
00:16:41,195 --> 00:16:43,355
He didn't know what he was doing in
wholesaling.
288
00:16:43,434 --> 00:16:48,440
And so he was even in a more precarious
financial position and still had a bad culture.
289
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:54,279
And so we you know, my goal was to come in and
help them define, well, how could they
290
00:16:54,279 --> 00:16:55,559
differentiate the experience?
291
00:16:55,559 --> 00:17:00,200
How could he get some work done on himself as a
leader so he could make a better culture?
292
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,480
So coaching is important.
293
00:17:02,075 --> 00:17:03,595
And he did all of his work.
294
00:17:03,595 --> 00:17:09,035
He was an amazing person in terms of looking at
how he had contributed to such a negativistic
295
00:17:09,035 --> 00:17:09,755
workplace.
296
00:17:09,994 --> 00:17:13,115
And then the team did their work to say, hey.
297
00:17:13,115 --> 00:17:14,075
What if we tried this?
298
00:17:14,075 --> 00:17:14,875
What if we tried that?
299
00:17:15,339 --> 00:17:18,940
How about we treat people differently this way
or that way?
300
00:17:18,940 --> 00:17:21,579
And lo and behold, they differentiated
themselves.
301
00:17:21,579 --> 00:17:23,099
Got out of bankruptcy.
302
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:27,099
He you know, they eclipsed the other brands in
their sector.
303
00:17:27,179 --> 00:17:28,539
It's a happy happy story.
304
00:17:28,539 --> 00:17:29,659
I put it in a book.
305
00:17:30,220 --> 00:17:33,394
But suffice it to say, doesn't always turn out
that way.
306
00:17:33,555 --> 00:17:39,075
But in this particular case, I think it was
more a function of making sure the leaders did
307
00:17:39,075 --> 00:17:45,154
the introspection and the hard work of changing
the way they lead as well as suggesting that we
308
00:17:45,154 --> 00:17:50,009
need to differentiate and what we want people
to experience when they come here, and then
309
00:17:50,009 --> 00:17:52,089
let's test how we can design it differently.
310
00:17:52,089 --> 00:17:56,409
And if you go to the Pike Place Fish Market in
Seattle, there are five fish markets within two
311
00:17:56,409 --> 00:17:58,649
blocks, and it stands out.
312
00:17:58,649 --> 00:18:02,474
It's a remarkably different experience even
though their fish are are the same as you could
313
00:18:02,474 --> 00:18:04,554
buy at any of the other stands.
314
00:18:05,674 --> 00:18:06,154
Wow.
315
00:18:06,154 --> 00:18:06,875
That's amazing.
316
00:18:06,875 --> 00:18:07,994
I'm sure I will.
317
00:18:08,315 --> 00:18:11,835
So you you that's just an amazing point.
318
00:18:11,994 --> 00:18:17,250
You mentioned about leaders have to go
introspection, especially when you're creating
319
00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:21,649
the culture, especially when you're creating a
culture for your employees, but also for you
320
00:18:21,730 --> 00:18:22,929
the customer experience.
321
00:18:23,089 --> 00:18:29,009
They wanna have that wow factor that, you know,
you've talked many a times.
322
00:18:30,575 --> 00:18:36,815
When leaders know they need to go
introspectively, sometimes they can be
323
00:18:36,815 --> 00:18:37,454
stubborn.
324
00:18:37,454 --> 00:18:38,575
They don't.
325
00:18:39,535 --> 00:18:42,174
Walk us through what happens in those moments.
326
00:18:42,174 --> 00:18:49,650
They know they want to, but that ego sometimes
gets in the way of they don't implement on
327
00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:50,049
that.
328
00:18:50,049 --> 00:18:50,529
Yeah.
329
00:18:50,529 --> 00:18:53,410
I think it could be said it could be said a lot
of different ways.
330
00:18:53,410 --> 00:18:55,730
Johnny used to say that fish thinks from the
head.
331
00:18:55,730 --> 00:18:57,815
He was the head of the organization.
332
00:18:57,815 --> 00:18:59,654
All the rest of it was a function of that.
333
00:18:59,654 --> 00:19:01,174
I think that that's there.
334
00:19:01,174 --> 00:19:07,815
I I think largely what shows up in our life is
somewhat consistent with what we put out in the
335
00:19:07,815 --> 00:19:08,214
universe.
336
00:19:08,214 --> 00:19:10,055
I tend to believe in reciprocity.
337
00:19:10,055 --> 00:19:13,240
As a rule, there are people who can be really
nice to, and they can treat you like crap.
338
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:14,039
Don't get me wrong.
339
00:19:14,039 --> 00:19:15,720
There there's exceptions to the rule.
340
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,279
But more often than not, the more I approach
you with kindness and dignity and respect, the
341
00:19:20,279 --> 00:19:23,720
more likely you are to treat me with kindness
and dignity and respect.
342
00:19:24,174 --> 00:19:27,375
And so if you're talking to a leader and you're
saying, you know, what's showing up in your
343
00:19:27,375 --> 00:19:32,894
life is probably somewhat correlated to what
you are putting out into the universe.
344
00:19:32,894 --> 00:19:37,779
And if you wanna continue to to have the
results that you've had, then keep being who
345
00:19:37,779 --> 00:19:38,660
you've always been.
346
00:19:38,660 --> 00:19:43,940
You know, it's that same line of, kind of the
the the Einstein line.
347
00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:48,420
You know, if you want different results, you
know, you kinda have to change the the
348
00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:50,819
mechanism by which those results are driven.
349
00:19:51,220 --> 00:19:56,315
I I think, you know, you just keep saying if
you like the way things are, then please don't
350
00:19:56,315 --> 00:19:56,794
change.
351
00:19:57,035 --> 00:20:02,714
You know, if this is working out so fabulously
for you, doctor Phil used to say, how's that
352
00:20:02,714 --> 00:20:03,674
working for you?
353
00:20:03,755 --> 00:20:04,234
You know?
354
00:20:04,474 --> 00:20:08,900
I think that's the question that we're really
asking leaders is if it's working for you, then
355
00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:09,619
don't change it.
356
00:20:09,619 --> 00:20:10,339
But guess what?
357
00:20:10,339 --> 00:20:14,579
Why are you asking me as a consultant to be in
your business if it's working so well?
358
00:20:14,820 --> 00:20:15,539
You know?
359
00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:17,940
Please don't don't involve me.
360
00:20:17,940 --> 00:20:22,075
Don't waste your money on me because I'm gonna
advocate for change.
361
00:20:22,075 --> 00:20:26,315
I'm not gonna ask for a wholesale change, and
I'm certainly gonna analyze what's working.
362
00:20:26,315 --> 00:20:30,315
I mean, the last thing I wanna do is go and
reengineer something that's working.
363
00:20:30,555 --> 00:20:34,875
But I'll tell you what, if it was all working,
you probably wouldn't be here with me today.
364
00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:37,159
Right.
365
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:38,200
Exactly.
366
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,159
As an expert, they've hired you for a reason.
367
00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:42,759
They really don't.
368
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,359
Like they say yes.
369
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,720
And like they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix
it.
370
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:48,119
But Yeah.
371
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:54,214
You wanna fix the problem, you have to know as
to what's the problem internally that you have
372
00:20:54,214 --> 00:20:58,694
because when we do that and into externally,
it's gonna show up.
373
00:20:59,015 --> 00:20:59,974
And I love what you said.
374
00:20:59,974 --> 00:21:03,734
And I think so much of solving a problem is
identifying the problem well.
375
00:21:03,734 --> 00:21:03,974
Right?
376
00:21:03,974 --> 00:21:08,200
Like, you're you're halfway to the solution if
you have a real clear understanding what the
377
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,000
problem is.
378
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,279
And and so we often bypass that phase.
379
00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:17,639
And in in that identifying the problem, I think
we we decrease the risk that we're gonna break
380
00:21:17,639 --> 00:21:18,999
the things that are working.
381
00:21:19,079 --> 00:21:19,399
Right?
382
00:21:19,399 --> 00:21:21,505
Because these are not a problem.
383
00:21:21,505 --> 00:21:21,825
Right?
384
00:21:21,825 --> 00:21:24,785
These are the more we try to go so why is that?
385
00:21:24,785 --> 00:21:25,265
Why is that?
386
00:21:25,265 --> 00:21:25,664
Why is that?
387
00:21:25,664 --> 00:21:30,065
And we get to the core reason, the less we're
gonna mess around with all the things that have
388
00:21:30,065 --> 00:21:33,184
nothing to do with it that people sometimes are
afraid.
389
00:21:33,184 --> 00:21:38,700
You know, change is scary for all of us, but
not changing is scary for all of us too.
390
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:42,539
It's more about how do we manage the speed of
change and target the right targets.
391
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:45,820
And if we can dial those two things in I just
see look.
392
00:21:45,820 --> 00:21:51,784
Most leaders, by the time they get to me, they
may be a little reluctant to to face the cold
393
00:21:51,784 --> 00:21:58,184
hard truth, but they also I I think they are
paying enough money that I'm basically saying,
394
00:21:58,184 --> 00:22:00,744
you're not gonna use my advice, I don't wanna
be here.
395
00:22:01,090 --> 00:22:04,130
And and, really, it's a beautiful thing in my
career at least.
396
00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:05,730
Because early on, it was not like that.
397
00:22:05,730 --> 00:22:08,130
I would take anybody who had 25¢ probably.
398
00:22:08,130 --> 00:22:11,250
But, you know, now in my career, it's a matter
of, look.
399
00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:12,769
I don't care how much money you throw at this.
400
00:22:13,125 --> 00:22:18,644
If you are into this, reputationally for me,
having worked with you is gonna work against
401
00:22:18,644 --> 00:22:19,125
me.
402
00:22:19,204 --> 00:22:19,525
Right?
403
00:22:19,525 --> 00:22:27,369
Like, I need to not work with you and have you
pay me all that money than you know because I I
404
00:22:27,369 --> 00:22:29,690
want to be able to earn what I create.
405
00:22:29,690 --> 00:22:36,730
And you are gonna be a bad, bad example of of
my work product because you are not committed
406
00:22:36,730 --> 00:22:37,130
to this.
407
00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:40,464
So let's let's agree that it's not a fit and
move on quickly.
408
00:22:40,464 --> 00:22:41,904
I don't care how much money you got.
409
00:22:42,704 --> 00:22:43,345
Mhmm.
410
00:22:43,345 --> 00:22:45,345
And it really is something I live by now.
411
00:22:45,345 --> 00:22:46,384
I I didn't early.
412
00:22:46,384 --> 00:22:50,945
I mean, I'll be but now I'm not gonna take a
reputational risk of working with somebody
413
00:22:50,945 --> 00:22:53,265
who's not committed to growing and developing
their organization.
414
00:22:54,670 --> 00:22:54,990
Yeah.
415
00:22:54,990 --> 00:22:57,950
Because my competitors will say, oh, Michele
worked with that loser.
416
00:22:57,950 --> 00:22:58,269
Right?
417
00:22:58,269 --> 00:23:03,789
Like, that he claims to be a premium brand to
look at the kind of clients that he well, look
418
00:23:03,789 --> 00:23:04,029
at the
419
00:23:04,190 --> 00:23:04,509
Mhmm.
420
00:23:04,509 --> 00:23:06,750
App is wrecking with clients.
421
00:23:06,910 --> 00:23:07,950
So I don't wanna work with him.
422
00:23:08,535 --> 00:23:09,015
Sorry.
423
00:23:09,015 --> 00:23:09,255
No.
424
00:23:09,255 --> 00:23:09,575
A 100
425
00:23:09,894 --> 00:23:10,295
yeah.
426
00:23:10,295 --> 00:23:10,455
No.
427
00:23:10,455 --> 00:23:11,174
A 100%.
428
00:23:11,174 --> 00:23:12,214
I I agree.
429
00:23:12,375 --> 00:23:14,455
Reputation is everything.
430
00:23:14,455 --> 00:23:17,255
Your reputation matters the most.
431
00:23:17,974 --> 00:23:24,369
So as an expert leadership, customer experience
expert, you're helping companies, and is your
432
00:23:24,369 --> 00:23:26,529
reputation at the end of the day?
433
00:23:27,650 --> 00:23:28,529
100%.
434
00:23:28,529 --> 00:23:31,250
I have a catch line just that it says, I serve
those who serve well.
435
00:23:31,250 --> 00:23:31,490
Right?
436
00:23:31,490 --> 00:23:35,170
So if I determine you're not committed to
serving well, then I don't serve you.
437
00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:39,654
I mean, if that's not your real agenda and to
serve well, you have to be willing to look at
438
00:23:39,654 --> 00:23:40,855
yourself and see where you're not.
439
00:23:40,855 --> 00:23:43,894
So to your point, it's full full loop moment.
440
00:23:44,855 --> 00:23:45,414
Absolutely.
441
00:23:45,414 --> 00:23:46,295
100%.
442
00:23:46,295 --> 00:23:47,095
Absolutely.
443
00:23:47,654 --> 00:23:55,170
What's the one principle, Joseph, that you have
learned working with iconic brands?
444
00:23:55,170 --> 00:24:01,410
What's the one principle that you have learned
you feel is gonna matter the most in the next
445
00:24:01,410 --> 00:24:01,970
five years?
446
00:24:03,075 --> 00:24:03,634
Yeah.
447
00:24:03,634 --> 00:24:05,234
All business is personal.
448
00:24:05,954 --> 00:24:10,194
I don't care if you're in a b to b or a b to c
environment.
449
00:24:10,514 --> 00:24:17,429
I don't care if you're selling, you know, IT
products or you're selling personal hygiene
450
00:24:17,429 --> 00:24:17,990
products.
451
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:18,950
Like, I don't care.
452
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:20,389
It's all personal.
453
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:27,750
Because when I invest money in you, I am
basically saying, am I smart or not?
454
00:24:28,804 --> 00:24:34,804
Did I am I really smart because I chose you, or
am I a fool that I chose you?
455
00:24:34,804 --> 00:24:38,884
And you're gonna prove me one way or another as
soon as we get in their interaction.
456
00:24:38,884 --> 00:24:43,525
If you treat me like I'm just another
transaction, I'm probably more likely to feel
457
00:24:43,525 --> 00:24:47,579
like I'm a fool for having purchased from you
when there may have been somebody else right
458
00:24:47,579 --> 00:24:49,979
behind you that really would have cared about
me.
459
00:24:50,859 --> 00:24:55,500
So I think the principle that that business
leaders who do this really well and that I've
460
00:24:55,500 --> 00:25:02,184
had the privilege of is appreciating that every
interaction is a message to an individual.
461
00:25:02,265 --> 00:25:03,944
They matter or they don't.
462
00:25:04,105 --> 00:25:05,785
I value you or I don't.
463
00:25:05,785 --> 00:25:07,464
I see you or I don't.
464
00:25:07,945 --> 00:25:10,664
I'm going to respond to you quickly or I won't.
465
00:25:11,305 --> 00:25:16,859
All of it is a personal affront or a validation
of the human in front of you.
466
00:25:19,180 --> 00:25:20,940
Everybody wants to feel valued.
467
00:25:20,940 --> 00:25:27,820
Everybody wants to feel valued, appreciated,
anytime, whether it's at Rick's Carlton or
468
00:25:27,820 --> 00:25:30,565
Starbucks, you know, we go and get coffee.
469
00:25:30,565 --> 00:25:34,404
How does the barista how do they how am I being
treated?
470
00:25:34,964 --> 00:25:39,044
I could treat you well, but then it's always
that reciprocity.
471
00:25:39,285 --> 00:25:41,605
Do they treat the customers well?
472
00:25:41,605 --> 00:25:42,644
You know, how am I treated?
473
00:25:42,869 --> 00:25:44,150
I wanna be respected.
474
00:25:44,150 --> 00:25:45,109
Everybody does.
475
00:25:45,509 --> 00:25:51,349
And even in online business where maybe I never
see a person, there is still that sense that I
476
00:25:51,349 --> 00:25:53,029
get value for what I paid.
477
00:25:53,109 --> 00:25:54,470
Was the website working?
478
00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:55,990
Was it fast loading?
479
00:25:55,990 --> 00:26:01,515
What did they build it for somebody like me, or
have they made it too complicated for my use?
480
00:26:01,914 --> 00:26:08,315
Every single decision that I make in the way I
deliver an online product is the same
481
00:26:08,315 --> 00:26:13,434
interpretation model for me for the consumer,
the user experience, if you will.
482
00:26:13,799 --> 00:26:19,720
As a user, did I feel like they got it for me,
or did they make my life miserable?
483
00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:21,400
The same is true with AI.
484
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:27,434
Did they use AI as a compliment to my journey,
or did they replace humans making my life more
485
00:26:27,434 --> 00:26:27,914
complicated?
486
00:26:27,914 --> 00:26:31,115
Because I can't find a flipping human when the
AI doesn't work.
487
00:26:31,115 --> 00:26:32,634
Or yeah.
488
00:26:32,634 --> 00:26:34,794
I mean, I think it's all personal.
489
00:26:35,275 --> 00:26:43,080
I take everything personally and not in a
hypersensitive kind of way, but even in
490
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,759
superficial transactions.
491
00:26:44,759 --> 00:26:48,679
Like, why weren't they building this a little
better for me?
492
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,039
Right.
493
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:50,440
Right.
494
00:26:50,625 --> 00:26:55,264
And how do you see AI fit into the whole
hospitality?
495
00:26:55,904 --> 00:27:01,984
Is that culture gonna vanish when it disappear,
or would it enhance establishments even more?
496
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,279
I have friends in in Asia who would tell you,
oh, we're just gonna all be robots, and it's
497
00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:08,640
gonna all be technology.
498
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:14,160
And and then like, where are robots gonna go
into the hotel too and be served by robots?
499
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,964
Because until that time, there probably should
still be a human being somewhere in the
500
00:27:17,964 --> 00:27:20,284
equation because you're serving a human being.
501
00:27:20,525 --> 00:27:22,285
And and I think look.
502
00:27:22,285 --> 00:27:27,325
I don't have a crystal ball to know how much
technology is gonna dominate the landscape.
503
00:27:27,484 --> 00:27:30,845
I do believe there still will always be a place
for human service.
504
00:27:31,299 --> 00:27:36,740
And while I think technology will become even
more empathetic and more warm and nurturing and
505
00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:40,660
kind, and we're gonna buy into it, we're gonna
get seduced into, wow.
506
00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:40,900
Wait.
507
00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:43,140
I have an AI companion, but they're really not
real.
508
00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:43,859
Are you kidding me?
509
00:27:44,194 --> 00:27:45,474
Wanna marry my AI.
510
00:27:45,474 --> 00:27:46,434
It's already happening.
511
00:27:46,434 --> 00:27:48,914
People are marrying their AI avatars.
512
00:27:48,994 --> 00:27:52,355
So I think it could go a lot farther than I'm
wanting to believe.
513
00:27:52,674 --> 00:27:57,234
But that notwithstanding, I there's gotta be
people needed to serve people.
514
00:27:57,234 --> 00:27:59,234
And maybe it'll be a novelty for all I know.
515
00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:01,200
You wanna really pay premium?
516
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,359
You're gonna actually get to talk to a person.
517
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:08,640
But I don't think the humans are gonna lose
their appetite for human interaction.
518
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:16,079
If anything, I'm seeing a lot of data right now
about loneliness, isolation, technology almost
519
00:28:15,674 --> 00:28:19,674
creating a greater need for human contact.
520
00:28:20,715 --> 00:28:21,434
Right.
521
00:28:21,595 --> 00:28:22,634
A 100%.
522
00:28:22,634 --> 00:28:24,474
And we're talking about Asia.
523
00:28:25,914 --> 00:28:30,329
Japan has the first a robot hotel.
524
00:28:30,569 --> 00:28:35,289
And I was just flicking through, I think,
Instagram, and I just happened to stumble upon.
525
00:28:35,849 --> 00:28:40,249
And it it just blows me away, but that's where
everything is going.
526
00:28:40,250 --> 00:28:40,569
Yeah.
527
00:28:40,569 --> 00:28:47,345
You know, AI, the robotics, and it's just
playing a huge role in how we, you know, how we
528
00:28:47,345 --> 00:28:50,224
see technology just evolving.
529
00:28:50,945 --> 00:28:54,785
I think you to your point, I mean, I think
we're gonna see, first, the novelty effect of
530
00:28:54,785 --> 00:28:54,945
it.
531
00:28:54,945 --> 00:28:57,919
So, like, you're gonna wanna go to that hotel
just for the pure novelty it.
532
00:28:57,919 --> 00:29:00,640
And I think there's gonna be a point where
we're gonna really understand.
533
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,919
Maybe we want the, you know, the the robots to
make the beds and do the perfect corner tucks
534
00:29:05,919 --> 00:29:10,720
and save the the, you know, the repetitive
motion injuries to humans that we get now.
535
00:29:11,134 --> 00:29:17,134
But maybe that human is gonna need to retrain
and be kind of a higher level concierge greeter
536
00:29:17,134 --> 00:29:19,695
welcomer who really says to you, gosh.
537
00:29:19,695 --> 00:29:22,894
It was so good to have time with you today,
Elka.
538
00:29:22,894 --> 00:29:29,519
And then mean it, not, you know, not chat GPT
speak that says, hello, Elka.
539
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:31,759
I hope you are well today.
540
00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:38,559
I mean, I hope that we we find ways to use both
in in that enhance the human experience.
541
00:29:39,474 --> 00:29:40,434
Absolutely.
542
00:29:40,914 --> 00:29:44,514
Joseph and Michele, thank you so much for your
valuable time.
543
00:29:44,514 --> 00:29:46,514
This has been amazing conversations.
544
00:29:46,595 --> 00:29:47,474
Really appreciate it.
545
00:29:47,474 --> 00:29:48,274
Thank you for your time.
546
00:29:48,274 --> 00:29:49,234
I love what you do.
547
00:29:49,234 --> 00:29:51,634
Thanks for creating these opportunities for
your audience.
548
00:29:52,325 --> 00:29:52,805
Yeah.
549
00:29:52,805 --> 00:29:53,845
Thank you so much.
550
00:29:53,845 --> 00:29:54,644
I appreciate.
551
00:29:54,644 --> 00:29:55,605
Thank you, Francie.
00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,879
Welcome, Joseph and Shelley, to Ask the Experts
podcast.
2
00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:08,000
Thank you, Elka.
3
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,359
It's an honor to be here.
4
00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:10,160
Thank you.
5
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:10,800
It's an honor.
6
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:11,919
It's my pleasure.
7
00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:21,484
What expensive brand mistakes you have seen
brand great brands make, and what has cost
8
00:00:21,484 --> 00:00:22,045
them?
9
00:00:22,045 --> 00:00:23,804
Reputation or money?
10
00:00:24,605 --> 00:00:28,285
Well, I was involved in an incident at the Ritz
Carlton.
11
00:00:28,285 --> 00:00:30,570
I probably shouldn't be telling, but here it
is.
12
00:00:30,969 --> 00:00:35,850
Somebody was doing a site review for whether or
not they were gonna do a convention at this
13
00:00:35,850 --> 00:00:41,850
particular property, and they received a survey
in advance about the things that they preferred
14
00:00:42,009 --> 00:00:44,170
to have during their their visit.
15
00:00:44,784 --> 00:00:48,545
And, literally, they requested Diet Coke in
their room.
16
00:00:48,784 --> 00:00:55,265
And so instead, they event the the person who
is responsible for those amenities provided
17
00:00:55,265 --> 00:00:56,864
Diet Pepsi, let's say.
18
00:00:56,864 --> 00:00:59,184
If it was Diet Coke, wanted they provided the
alternate brand.
19
00:00:59,730 --> 00:01:04,770
And, literally, there was a message to these
folks that if you can't get the drink right
20
00:01:04,770 --> 00:01:08,290
when you ask, then I'm not gonna spend for this
convention.
21
00:01:08,290 --> 00:01:14,209
And that really was on a magnitude of hundreds
of thousands of dollars of lost revenue over a
22
00:01:14,209 --> 00:01:16,025
single can of beverage.
23
00:01:16,185 --> 00:01:19,625
The lesson, obviously, if you're gonna ask, you
better deliver.
24
00:01:20,105 --> 00:01:24,105
Better to not even ask than to ask and fail.
25
00:01:24,344 --> 00:01:29,305
And better yet, if you could have figured that
out some other way before the the person
26
00:01:29,305 --> 00:01:34,319
arrived on property, So you had that preferred
beverage there available, and they went, how
27
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:35,359
how did you know?
28
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:37,280
Absolutely.
29
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,239
And create that wow experience before they get
there.
30
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:40,959
Absolutely.
31
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,040
100%.
32
00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:49,864
So so, Joseph, walk us through brands such as
Ritz Carlton and Starbucks.
33
00:01:49,944 --> 00:01:54,584
How do these establishments create magic for
customers?
34
00:01:54,584 --> 00:01:57,865
Well, in that instance, I showed how they
unwowed somebody, right, and didn't create
35
00:01:57,865 --> 00:01:58,265
magic.
36
00:01:58,265 --> 00:02:04,850
But most of the time, you're gonna look at a a
brand more so, I think, Ritz Carlton today.
37
00:02:04,850 --> 00:02:06,930
Starbucks is trying to go back to the soul of
this.
38
00:02:06,930 --> 00:02:10,689
So understand early on, the Ritz Carlton was
much I'm sorry.
39
00:02:10,689 --> 00:02:15,735
The Starbucks was much better at having their
baristas understand they were creating
40
00:02:15,895 --> 00:02:22,534
uplifting moments in the cafe environment, and
they trained folks on how to know somebody's
41
00:02:22,534 --> 00:02:27,719
name and backstory, to have their drink ready
when they walked in the door when they saw them
42
00:02:27,719 --> 00:02:34,040
coming in, if they, you know, knew the dog's
name to be able to make the the the puppuccino,
43
00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,800
for the pup while it was coming through the
drive through lane.
44
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,360
All of those things, even inserting a camera
into drive through, which was really novel at
45
00:02:41,895 --> 00:02:47,175
time so you could look into the car and see who
was in there and be able to provide a treat for
46
00:02:47,175 --> 00:02:48,455
them when they came around.
47
00:02:48,694 --> 00:02:54,294
All of those things were elements of design and
selecting people and telling them, what do we
48
00:02:54,294 --> 00:02:56,935
want everybody who comes into this place to
feel?
49
00:02:57,519 --> 00:03:03,680
We are obligated to try to engineer an outcome
just as a manufacturing plant might wanna
50
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:09,039
engineer a point zero zero one defect outcome
when they take consistent raw materials,
51
00:03:09,039 --> 00:03:09,759
processes.
52
00:03:09,759 --> 00:03:14,615
And while we are the people who are coming in
are not consistent, so we have to nuance it.
53
00:03:14,615 --> 00:03:19,574
But we still have to have some basic processes
that increase the probability they will feel
54
00:03:19,574 --> 00:03:23,495
this as well as encounter operational
excellence throughout the journey.
55
00:03:23,495 --> 00:03:25,680
So they define the destination.
56
00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,360
They select people who can do it.
57
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,840
They build processes that generally will get
you there, and then they encourage our people
58
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,719
to nuance those processes to ensure the
greatest likelihood that the individual in
59
00:03:36,719 --> 00:03:39,280
front of them will walk out with the outcome
they desire.
60
00:03:40,294 --> 00:03:41,335
Absolutely.
61
00:03:41,414 --> 00:03:48,935
And as a leadership and customer experience
expert, Joseph, reputation is everything.
62
00:03:49,254 --> 00:03:58,210
What is the closest that you have seen a brand
come to destroy that public trust overnight?
63
00:03:59,090 --> 00:04:02,849
Well, I mean, thank goodness these have not
been brands that I've worked with.
64
00:04:02,849 --> 00:04:11,324
But I I think if you articulate your values
publicly and then you behave alternative to
65
00:04:11,324 --> 00:04:16,205
those values in your decision making,
reputationally, it's almost non survivable.
66
00:04:16,205 --> 00:04:18,524
So you'll take a brand, and this is a historic
brand.
67
00:04:18,524 --> 00:04:24,899
A lot of a lot of listeners may have to Google
this, but Enron, which really had as a value
68
00:04:24,899 --> 00:04:29,300
proposition in that oil sector, they had the
value proposition of integrity.
69
00:04:29,300 --> 00:04:32,500
So they said, we are the integrity brand.
70
00:04:32,500 --> 00:04:38,324
And then their behaviors in the boardroom were
far from demonstrating consistency of behavior
71
00:04:38,324 --> 00:04:39,444
with that claim.
72
00:04:39,524 --> 00:04:44,645
And I think whenever you claim integrity where
you're supposed to be, like, an integer whole,
73
00:04:44,805 --> 00:04:49,605
the whole action and the whole word, and you
don't operate from it, you implode.
74
00:04:49,605 --> 00:04:51,899
And that brand certainly did implode.
75
00:04:51,899 --> 00:04:58,939
I think in modern iterations, you know,
anything that gets you viral negative press is
76
00:04:58,939 --> 00:05:05,014
normally a reflection of you not training your
people well or you not handling a service
77
00:05:05,014 --> 00:05:07,735
breakdown well, and that becomes viral.
78
00:05:07,735 --> 00:05:12,375
And it can completely work against all the
marketing dollars you've spent to try to get
79
00:05:12,375 --> 00:05:14,295
people to trust you.
80
00:05:14,854 --> 00:05:19,129
And and I think about this, and and I'll make
it really short, just that we put deposits in
81
00:05:19,129 --> 00:05:22,250
the reservoir of trust every single day with
our customers.
82
00:05:22,649 --> 00:05:25,129
You gotta be careful when you do a withdrawal.
83
00:05:25,209 --> 00:05:29,529
If you don't have enough deposits in there and
that withdrawal is too big, reputationally,
84
00:05:29,529 --> 00:05:30,170
you're done.
85
00:05:30,410 --> 00:05:35,975
You can take some hits above the waterline on
your ship.
86
00:05:36,214 --> 00:05:38,294
You can't take the hits below the waterline.
87
00:05:38,294 --> 00:05:40,214
And so what are those hits below the waterline?
88
00:05:40,214 --> 00:05:44,935
They're ones where you have made too big of a
mistake and you haven't invested in trust so
89
00:05:44,935 --> 00:05:46,694
that people will forgive the mistake.
90
00:05:48,329 --> 00:05:48,969
Right.
91
00:05:48,969 --> 00:05:51,129
And trust trust is everything.
92
00:05:51,129 --> 00:05:56,889
We can it takes it takes a long time to build
upon a trust, but it can easily just be
93
00:05:56,889 --> 00:06:02,644
destroyed just like that if we're not careful
as to how, you know, how do we conduct
94
00:06:02,644 --> 00:06:04,564
ourselves in business, etcetera.
95
00:06:05,125 --> 00:06:05,605
Absolutely.
96
00:06:05,605 --> 00:06:06,324
Yes.
97
00:06:07,204 --> 00:06:13,685
And, Joseph, you have seen training at the
highest level with the iconic brands you have
98
00:06:13,685 --> 00:06:14,165
worked with.
99
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:23,439
How do the bigger brands, the iconic brands,
how did they train which mediocre brands do not
100
00:06:23,439 --> 00:06:27,120
take the time to invest in their employees, in
their teams?
101
00:06:27,894 --> 00:06:28,294
Walk us
102
00:06:28,294 --> 00:06:31,974
through I I would I'll give I'll stay with the
Ritz Carlton because we've been using it as an
103
00:06:31,974 --> 00:06:32,535
example.
104
00:06:33,014 --> 00:06:35,974
First off, they're gonna select people who are
capable of being trained.
105
00:06:35,974 --> 00:06:37,014
I think that's important.
106
00:06:37,014 --> 00:06:41,829
And so they'll use a lot of talent selection
tools, and they'll look at you know, if we're
107
00:06:41,829 --> 00:06:46,310
hiring for front desk, we're gonna hire
somebody, believe it or not, who doesn't have
108
00:06:46,310 --> 00:06:48,310
high levels of empathy.
109
00:06:48,949 --> 00:06:53,189
And the reason for that is that that front desk
with all that volume, if everybody's problems
110
00:06:53,189 --> 00:06:57,064
are coming at you, you don't want people who
are overly empathic to the point where they are
111
00:06:57,064 --> 00:07:00,745
immobilized by feeling all that pain all day
long.
112
00:07:00,745 --> 00:07:02,904
But they hire for high levels of curiosity.
113
00:07:02,904 --> 00:07:05,944
So people who are at the front desk are trying
to problem solve constantly.
114
00:07:06,319 --> 00:07:08,079
Well, what else what when did that start?
115
00:07:08,079 --> 00:07:08,639
What's happening?
116
00:07:08,639 --> 00:07:11,199
How do I make sure that we get and
resourcefulness.
117
00:07:11,439 --> 00:07:16,160
So, yes, adequate levels of empathy, but not
they're not pegging the empathy scale.
118
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,279
So selecting first.
119
00:07:17,519 --> 00:07:20,240
Once you've selected, then you have to onboard,
and you have to say, okay.
120
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,145
We wanna make sure you understand the culture
that we're operating in.
121
00:07:23,225 --> 00:07:26,585
Once we're past the culture, let's now train
you to the skill set.
122
00:07:26,665 --> 00:07:28,264
Let's certify you to the skill set.
123
00:07:28,264 --> 00:07:31,944
So if you're in housekeeping, you're a room
attendant, we're gonna make sure you can do
124
00:07:31,944 --> 00:07:36,430
that folded corner of the Ritz Carlton way
certifiably, predictably, consistently.
125
00:07:36,430 --> 00:07:37,790
We're gonna teach you.
126
00:07:37,790 --> 00:07:40,029
We're gonna, on the job, train you on that.
127
00:07:40,029 --> 00:07:44,029
We're gonna verify your skill set, and we're
gonna audit your rooms.
128
00:07:44,029 --> 00:07:46,350
We're gonna recertify you on an annualized
basis.
129
00:07:47,164 --> 00:07:52,444
And and people who know this stuff love that
because it just verifies it, that they are
130
00:07:52,444 --> 00:07:53,644
super competent.
131
00:07:53,725 --> 00:07:55,644
So all of those elements are there.
132
00:07:55,724 --> 00:08:01,404
And I think this this notion that you teach
somebody once and it's good, you're constantly
133
00:08:01,404 --> 00:08:05,939
looking at how do we can can how do we groom
that behavior even further.
134
00:08:07,379 --> 00:08:08,180
Absolutely.
135
00:08:08,660 --> 00:08:13,459
What's the unreasonable expectation elite
brands choose?
136
00:08:14,019 --> 00:08:15,220
Well, the And and
137
00:08:15,220 --> 00:08:16,740
how do they meet those expectations?
138
00:08:17,365 --> 00:08:21,444
I you know, you take take the risk girl to the
founder of it, chooses perfection.
139
00:08:21,444 --> 00:08:24,164
He doesn't accept anything but perfection, so
he says.
140
00:08:24,164 --> 00:08:28,884
And then if you accepted excellence, you would
not continue to aspire once you get 90%.
141
00:08:28,884 --> 00:08:34,350
So there there's this attitude, the haughtiness
to we will perceive x you know, pursue
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excellence.
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In real truth, I think what what the the
goalpost is here is to be able to have some
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behavioral indicators against standards.
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So what are our standards and how often do we
hit those standards?
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What are our KPIs and whether or not we are
executing?
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So if it's percentage of people coming in the
door who come in as a result of referrals as
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opposed to organic traffic, let's say, you're
gonna track that as a sign of whether or not we
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are continuing to move the needle in the
direction of wowing customers to the point
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where there are Salesforce.
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Right?
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So it it changes by organization, I think, but
there's almost always a combination of customer
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voice, what are our customers telling us,
customer behavior, what are we seeing in the
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customer's financial performance, what are we
seeing our numbers move in the direction of as
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a lagging indicator of all these other things
that are enabling us an easier way to go out
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there and do business.
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Mhmm.
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If brands choose a speed and perfection, most
often, how do brands choose?
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Is it the speed or the perfection?
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Could it be the combination of both?
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And how do we walk us through the steps.
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How do brands
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Well, I think there are there are brands that
live and die by speed.
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Like, if you're in a convenient sector like,
you know, quick service restaurants, you better
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be fast because people are coming there, and
the primary component of your value proposition
166
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is speed.
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In luxury, for example, we used to think, oh,
speed was not important at all because you're
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gonna luxuriate you.
169
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We could slowly deliver the service, and that
is not true.
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The modern consumer wants speed, and they want
speed in all things.
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They want convenience in all things.
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They want frictionless in all things.
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That is part of the race that we're all on.
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It's why technology has its important role in
all of our businesses.
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There are some brands that have a value
proposition above convenience and speed and for
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which they can charge more.
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I mean, if all I do is make it easy and fast,
I'm probably gonna get commoditized, and I'm
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gonna have to have the best technology in
place.
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And that's all on the transaction, on the
utility.
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Right?
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If I really care about relationship with my
client, I'm probably gonna have to remove all
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of the dissatisfiers with technology, add some
satisfiers through technology and convenience,
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but then I'm gonna have to add delight to the
people that I bring into the equation.
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Well, if that's my value proposition, I need to
execute speed in the background, and I need to
185
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execute these high value perfection,
emotionality driven outcomes in the foreground.
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And and I think that's the art of this whole
thing in business is knowing who you are and
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how much to have of what and when to put what
where.
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And if you do that well, you create really
lovely customer journeys that are brand
189
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congruent, that cause people to talk about you,
and to differentiate you from people who have
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no clue what they're putting together.
191
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100%.
192
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What's the fastest way to destroy a brand as
you're building the brand?
193
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And you're thinking you you're building the
internal culture because culture is everything,
194
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and it's how your team, your employees, they
thrive when a culture is conducive.
195
00:11:49,830 --> 00:11:55,325
So how do you how you're building how do you
destroy, but at the same time, you know, you're
196
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building the culture.
197
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And so how do we how do brands need to maintain
themselves
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in this moment?
199
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Yeah.
200
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I think there's a soulless approach to a lot of
this stuff.
201
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Right?
202
00:12:06,860 --> 00:12:08,220
Like, it's very analytic.
203
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Like, what does our customer need?
204
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What do we wanna be in the market?
205
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I mean, whenever you start talking about those
things frequently, you're getting farther away
206
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from the authentic truth of who you are.
207
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You know, most of us come into business, and we
have a personality.
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We have things that we value, we believe in.
209
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We are trying to solve a problem for the
universe.
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We really wanna believe that we're gonna make
the world a better place through our solutions.
211
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If we can get super clear about what is the
uniqueness of who we are and why our solution
212
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is unique and who we serve well, and we just
focus on that and drive it and then keep
213
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improving it, we tend to build great brands.
214
00:12:44,740 --> 00:12:48,100
Where we get lost is, well, who else could I
appeal to?
215
00:12:48,865 --> 00:12:51,665
What else might I who else might like what I
do?
216
00:12:51,665 --> 00:12:55,985
Or maybe they're not, but maybe I could add a
couple of tweaks or features to our culture or
217
00:12:55,985 --> 00:12:59,504
brand so we can get them in the door and have
more traffic.
218
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At some point, we stop being excellent when we
don't take the risk of excellence.
219
00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:10,299
And the risk of excellence is to say, I'm not
gonna be everything that will make me mediocre.
220
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I'm gonna be what keeps me excellent.
221
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And so a lot of brands, I think.
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I have a friend of mine who's who teaches in
business school.
223
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I'm also a a professor, but he teaches
specifically this idea that there will always
224
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be a great a great restaurant a a great, you
know, restaurant chain that will have mainly
225
00:13:27,785 --> 00:13:30,105
french fries and hamburgers and a milkshake.
226
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And they'll be really good for a long, long
time.
227
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And all of a sudden, they'll start thinking,
well, maybe we should get in that chicken
228
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market or maybe we should do salads.
229
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,679
And then before you know it, their hamburgers
and their milkshakes and their french fries are
230
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not so that great.
231
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And guess what?
232
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There'll be another brand that comes up that
just does those three things.
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And I think a lot of times in building our
brand, we are not focused on the core and
234
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really executing that well, and we drift into
all these adjacencies that dilute the overall
235
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quality of our offerings while we think we're
appealing to broader audiences.
236
00:14:03,470 --> 00:14:04,110
Right.
237
00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:04,590
Exactly.
238
00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:10,910
And and in those moments, would you suggest,
you know, the the owner of the establishment
239
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take a survey before you introduce other, you
know, menu offerings.
240
00:14:17,625 --> 00:14:17,865
Yeah.
241
00:14:17,865 --> 00:14:23,225
I really wanna I I think that you really have
to say, does this fit our core brand?
242
00:14:23,544 --> 00:14:31,429
Are we doing this because it is an extension of
our essence, or are we reaching?
243
00:14:31,429 --> 00:14:38,070
Are we are we stretching the brand elasticity
to the point that we break the brand the rubber
244
00:14:38,070 --> 00:14:38,789
band, really?
245
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Stretching is good.
246
00:14:40,995 --> 00:14:42,754
We don't wanna always be predictable.
247
00:14:42,754 --> 00:14:44,194
I'm not trying to suggest that.
248
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I just think sometimes we reach because we
wanna be we just want more people.
249
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You see it in a lot of brands that maybe have
started luxury, and then they trade down
250
00:14:52,194 --> 00:14:55,714
market, and then they lose their reputation for
being luxury anymore.
251
00:14:56,399 --> 00:14:57,679
You know?
252
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:03,360
It's better to kinda be affordable luxury and
reach for that as opposed to go from luxury to
253
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try to be mass.
254
00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:06,320
I'll tell you that.
255
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Absolutely.
256
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Exactly.
257
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It's better to go from bottom to the top than
top to the bottom because you you lose your
258
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reputation in that way.
259
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And
260
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you can normally keep value and then, you know,
create another tier of people who want beyond
261
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just the value offering.
262
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But it's
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hard to become a you know, to be a premium band
and then go down and offer value as your key
264
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driver.
265
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Right.
266
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:40,335
So, Joseph, walk us through a brand that was
failing badly, but nobody internally was
267
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talking about how they were failing.
268
00:15:43,855 --> 00:15:48,415
And how did you go into the establishment and
fix the problem?
269
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,160
So the Pike Place Fish Market comes to mind.
270
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It's one of my first opportunities.
271
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The owner of the Pike Place Fish Market finally
reached out because he was near bankruptcy.
272
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I mean, that's the reason he reached out.
273
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I don't think he would have done it until then.
274
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They were failing badly because they had the
same product that everybody else had.
275
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They had the same experience everybody else
had.
276
00:16:10,684 --> 00:16:15,404
In terms of the way they delivered it, they
just had really cranky employees because the
277
00:16:15,404 --> 00:16:16,845
owner was pretty cranky.
278
00:16:16,845 --> 00:16:19,299
So he created a pretty negativistic culture.
279
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:22,899
They deliver the product in the same
environment, same space.
280
00:16:22,899 --> 00:16:28,580
Everything else was really pretty much parity
with their competitors, and he wasn't winning.
281
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And then he decided he was gonna try to get
better product.
282
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Right?
283
00:16:31,595 --> 00:16:36,154
So he was gonna buy fish from the fishing boats
instead of get the fish from the same
284
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distributors that the other guys did.
285
00:16:37,995 --> 00:16:39,835
And he thought he'd have an improved product.
286
00:16:40,075 --> 00:16:41,195
It just cost him more money.
287
00:16:41,195 --> 00:16:43,355
He didn't know what he was doing in
wholesaling.
288
00:16:43,434 --> 00:16:48,440
And so he was even in a more precarious
financial position and still had a bad culture.
289
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:54,279
And so we you know, my goal was to come in and
help them define, well, how could they
290
00:16:54,279 --> 00:16:55,559
differentiate the experience?
291
00:16:55,559 --> 00:17:00,200
How could he get some work done on himself as a
leader so he could make a better culture?
292
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,480
So coaching is important.
293
00:17:02,075 --> 00:17:03,595
And he did all of his work.
294
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He was an amazing person in terms of looking at
how he had contributed to such a negativistic
295
00:17:09,035 --> 00:17:09,755
workplace.
296
00:17:09,994 --> 00:17:13,115
And then the team did their work to say, hey.
297
00:17:13,115 --> 00:17:14,075
What if we tried this?
298
00:17:14,075 --> 00:17:14,875
What if we tried that?
299
00:17:15,339 --> 00:17:18,940
How about we treat people differently this way
or that way?
300
00:17:18,940 --> 00:17:21,579
And lo and behold, they differentiated
themselves.
301
00:17:21,579 --> 00:17:23,099
Got out of bankruptcy.
302
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:27,099
He you know, they eclipsed the other brands in
their sector.
303
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It's a happy happy story.
304
00:17:28,539 --> 00:17:29,659
I put it in a book.
305
00:17:30,220 --> 00:17:33,394
But suffice it to say, doesn't always turn out
that way.
306
00:17:33,555 --> 00:17:39,075
But in this particular case, I think it was
more a function of making sure the leaders did
307
00:17:39,075 --> 00:17:45,154
the introspection and the hard work of changing
the way they lead as well as suggesting that we
308
00:17:45,154 --> 00:17:50,009
need to differentiate and what we want people
to experience when they come here, and then
309
00:17:50,009 --> 00:17:52,089
let's test how we can design it differently.
310
00:17:52,089 --> 00:17:56,409
And if you go to the Pike Place Fish Market in
Seattle, there are five fish markets within two
311
00:17:56,409 --> 00:17:58,649
blocks, and it stands out.
312
00:17:58,649 --> 00:18:02,474
It's a remarkably different experience even
though their fish are are the same as you could
313
00:18:02,474 --> 00:18:04,554
buy at any of the other stands.
314
00:18:05,674 --> 00:18:06,154
Wow.
315
00:18:06,154 --> 00:18:06,875
That's amazing.
316
00:18:06,875 --> 00:18:07,994
I'm sure I will.
317
00:18:08,315 --> 00:18:11,835
So you you that's just an amazing point.
318
00:18:11,994 --> 00:18:17,250
You mentioned about leaders have to go
introspection, especially when you're creating
319
00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:21,649
the culture, especially when you're creating a
culture for your employees, but also for you
320
00:18:21,730 --> 00:18:22,929
the customer experience.
321
00:18:23,089 --> 00:18:29,009
They wanna have that wow factor that, you know,
you've talked many a times.
322
00:18:30,575 --> 00:18:36,815
When leaders know they need to go
introspectively, sometimes they can be
323
00:18:36,815 --> 00:18:37,454
stubborn.
324
00:18:37,454 --> 00:18:38,575
They don't.
325
00:18:39,535 --> 00:18:42,174
Walk us through what happens in those moments.
326
00:18:42,174 --> 00:18:49,650
They know they want to, but that ego sometimes
gets in the way of they don't implement on
327
00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:50,049
that.
328
00:18:50,049 --> 00:18:50,529
Yeah.
329
00:18:50,529 --> 00:18:53,410
I think it could be said it could be said a lot
of different ways.
330
00:18:53,410 --> 00:18:55,730
Johnny used to say that fish thinks from the
head.
331
00:18:55,730 --> 00:18:57,815
He was the head of the organization.
332
00:18:57,815 --> 00:18:59,654
All the rest of it was a function of that.
333
00:18:59,654 --> 00:19:01,174
I think that that's there.
334
00:19:01,174 --> 00:19:07,815
I I think largely what shows up in our life is
somewhat consistent with what we put out in the
335
00:19:07,815 --> 00:19:08,214
universe.
336
00:19:08,214 --> 00:19:10,055
I tend to believe in reciprocity.
337
00:19:10,055 --> 00:19:13,240
As a rule, there are people who can be really
nice to, and they can treat you like crap.
338
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:14,039
Don't get me wrong.
339
00:19:14,039 --> 00:19:15,720
There there's exceptions to the rule.
340
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,279
But more often than not, the more I approach
you with kindness and dignity and respect, the
341
00:19:20,279 --> 00:19:23,720
more likely you are to treat me with kindness
and dignity and respect.
342
00:19:24,174 --> 00:19:27,375
And so if you're talking to a leader and you're
saying, you know, what's showing up in your
343
00:19:27,375 --> 00:19:32,894
life is probably somewhat correlated to what
you are putting out into the universe.
344
00:19:32,894 --> 00:19:37,779
And if you wanna continue to to have the
results that you've had, then keep being who
345
00:19:37,779 --> 00:19:38,660
you've always been.
346
00:19:38,660 --> 00:19:43,940
You know, it's that same line of, kind of the
the the Einstein line.
347
00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:48,420
You know, if you want different results, you
know, you kinda have to change the the
348
00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:50,819
mechanism by which those results are driven.
349
00:19:51,220 --> 00:19:56,315
I I think, you know, you just keep saying if
you like the way things are, then please don't
350
00:19:56,315 --> 00:19:56,794
change.
351
00:19:57,035 --> 00:20:02,714
You know, if this is working out so fabulously
for you, doctor Phil used to say, how's that
352
00:20:02,714 --> 00:20:03,674
working for you?
353
00:20:03,755 --> 00:20:04,234
You know?
354
00:20:04,474 --> 00:20:08,900
I think that's the question that we're really
asking leaders is if it's working for you, then
355
00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:09,619
don't change it.
356
00:20:09,619 --> 00:20:10,339
But guess what?
357
00:20:10,339 --> 00:20:14,579
Why are you asking me as a consultant to be in
your business if it's working so well?
358
00:20:14,820 --> 00:20:15,539
You know?
359
00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:17,940
Please don't don't involve me.
360
00:20:17,940 --> 00:20:22,075
Don't waste your money on me because I'm gonna
advocate for change.
361
00:20:22,075 --> 00:20:26,315
I'm not gonna ask for a wholesale change, and
I'm certainly gonna analyze what's working.
362
00:20:26,315 --> 00:20:30,315
I mean, the last thing I wanna do is go and
reengineer something that's working.
363
00:20:30,555 --> 00:20:34,875
But I'll tell you what, if it was all working,
you probably wouldn't be here with me today.
364
00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:37,159
Right.
365
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:38,200
Exactly.
366
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,159
As an expert, they've hired you for a reason.
367
00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:42,759
They really don't.
368
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,359
Like they say yes.
369
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,720
And like they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix
it.
370
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:48,119
But Yeah.
371
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:54,214
You wanna fix the problem, you have to know as
to what's the problem internally that you have
372
00:20:54,214 --> 00:20:58,694
because when we do that and into externally,
it's gonna show up.
373
00:20:59,015 --> 00:20:59,974
And I love what you said.
374
00:20:59,974 --> 00:21:03,734
And I think so much of solving a problem is
identifying the problem well.
375
00:21:03,734 --> 00:21:03,974
Right?
376
00:21:03,974 --> 00:21:08,200
Like, you're you're halfway to the solution if
you have a real clear understanding what the
377
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,000
problem is.
378
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,279
And and so we often bypass that phase.
379
00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:17,639
And in in that identifying the problem, I think
we we decrease the risk that we're gonna break
380
00:21:17,639 --> 00:21:18,999
the things that are working.
381
00:21:19,079 --> 00:21:19,399
Right?
382
00:21:19,399 --> 00:21:21,505
Because these are not a problem.
383
00:21:21,505 --> 00:21:21,825
Right?
384
00:21:21,825 --> 00:21:24,785
These are the more we try to go so why is that?
385
00:21:24,785 --> 00:21:25,265
Why is that?
386
00:21:25,265 --> 00:21:25,664
Why is that?
387
00:21:25,664 --> 00:21:30,065
And we get to the core reason, the less we're
gonna mess around with all the things that have
388
00:21:30,065 --> 00:21:33,184
nothing to do with it that people sometimes are
afraid.
389
00:21:33,184 --> 00:21:38,700
You know, change is scary for all of us, but
not changing is scary for all of us too.
390
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:42,539
It's more about how do we manage the speed of
change and target the right targets.
391
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:45,820
And if we can dial those two things in I just
see look.
392
00:21:45,820 --> 00:21:51,784
Most leaders, by the time they get to me, they
may be a little reluctant to to face the cold
393
00:21:51,784 --> 00:21:58,184
hard truth, but they also I I think they are
paying enough money that I'm basically saying,
394
00:21:58,184 --> 00:22:00,744
you're not gonna use my advice, I don't wanna
be here.
395
00:22:01,090 --> 00:22:04,130
And and, really, it's a beautiful thing in my
career at least.
396
00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:05,730
Because early on, it was not like that.
397
00:22:05,730 --> 00:22:08,130
I would take anybody who had 25¢ probably.
398
00:22:08,130 --> 00:22:11,250
But, you know, now in my career, it's a matter
of, look.
399
00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:12,769
I don't care how much money you throw at this.
400
00:22:13,125 --> 00:22:18,644
If you are into this, reputationally for me,
having worked with you is gonna work against
401
00:22:18,644 --> 00:22:19,125
me.
402
00:22:19,204 --> 00:22:19,525
Right?
403
00:22:19,525 --> 00:22:27,369
Like, I need to not work with you and have you
pay me all that money than you know because I I
404
00:22:27,369 --> 00:22:29,690
want to be able to earn what I create.
405
00:22:29,690 --> 00:22:36,730
And you are gonna be a bad, bad example of of
my work product because you are not committed
406
00:22:36,730 --> 00:22:37,130
to this.
407
00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:40,464
So let's let's agree that it's not a fit and
move on quickly.
408
00:22:40,464 --> 00:22:41,904
I don't care how much money you got.
409
00:22:42,704 --> 00:22:43,345
Mhmm.
410
00:22:43,345 --> 00:22:45,345
And it really is something I live by now.
411
00:22:45,345 --> 00:22:46,384
I I didn't early.
412
00:22:46,384 --> 00:22:50,945
I mean, I'll be but now I'm not gonna take a
reputational risk of working with somebody
413
00:22:50,945 --> 00:22:53,265
who's not committed to growing and developing
their organization.
414
00:22:54,670 --> 00:22:54,990
Yeah.
415
00:22:54,990 --> 00:22:57,950
Because my competitors will say, oh, Michele
worked with that loser.
416
00:22:57,950 --> 00:22:58,269
Right?
417
00:22:58,269 --> 00:23:03,789
Like, that he claims to be a premium brand to
look at the kind of clients that he well, look
418
00:23:03,789 --> 00:23:04,029
at the
419
00:23:04,190 --> 00:23:04,509
Mhmm.
420
00:23:04,509 --> 00:23:06,750
App is wrecking with clients.
421
00:23:06,910 --> 00:23:07,950
So I don't wanna work with him.
422
00:23:08,535 --> 00:23:09,015
Sorry.
423
00:23:09,015 --> 00:23:09,255
No.
424
00:23:09,255 --> 00:23:09,575
A 100
425
00:23:09,894 --> 00:23:10,295
yeah.
426
00:23:10,295 --> 00:23:10,455
No.
427
00:23:10,455 --> 00:23:11,174
A 100%.
428
00:23:11,174 --> 00:23:12,214
I I agree.
429
00:23:12,375 --> 00:23:14,455
Reputation is everything.
430
00:23:14,455 --> 00:23:17,255
Your reputation matters the most.
431
00:23:17,974 --> 00:23:24,369
So as an expert leadership, customer experience
expert, you're helping companies, and is your
432
00:23:24,369 --> 00:23:26,529
reputation at the end of the day?
433
00:23:27,650 --> 00:23:28,529
100%.
434
00:23:28,529 --> 00:23:31,250
I have a catch line just that it says, I serve
those who serve well.
435
00:23:31,250 --> 00:23:31,490
Right?
436
00:23:31,490 --> 00:23:35,170
So if I determine you're not committed to
serving well, then I don't serve you.
437
00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:39,654
I mean, if that's not your real agenda and to
serve well, you have to be willing to look at
438
00:23:39,654 --> 00:23:40,855
yourself and see where you're not.
439
00:23:40,855 --> 00:23:43,894
So to your point, it's full full loop moment.
440
00:23:44,855 --> 00:23:45,414
Absolutely.
441
00:23:45,414 --> 00:23:46,295
100%.
442
00:23:46,295 --> 00:23:47,095
Absolutely.
443
00:23:47,654 --> 00:23:55,170
What's the one principle, Joseph, that you have
learned working with iconic brands?
444
00:23:55,170 --> 00:24:01,410
What's the one principle that you have learned
you feel is gonna matter the most in the next
445
00:24:01,410 --> 00:24:01,970
five years?
446
00:24:03,075 --> 00:24:03,634
Yeah.
447
00:24:03,634 --> 00:24:05,234
All business is personal.
448
00:24:05,954 --> 00:24:10,194
I don't care if you're in a b to b or a b to c
environment.
449
00:24:10,514 --> 00:24:17,429
I don't care if you're selling, you know, IT
products or you're selling personal hygiene
450
00:24:17,429 --> 00:24:17,990
products.
451
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:18,950
Like, I don't care.
452
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:20,389
It's all personal.
453
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:27,750
Because when I invest money in you, I am
basically saying, am I smart or not?
454
00:24:28,804 --> 00:24:34,804
Did I am I really smart because I chose you, or
am I a fool that I chose you?
455
00:24:34,804 --> 00:24:38,884
And you're gonna prove me one way or another as
soon as we get in their interaction.
456
00:24:38,884 --> 00:24:43,525
If you treat me like I'm just another
transaction, I'm probably more likely to feel
457
00:24:43,525 --> 00:24:47,579
like I'm a fool for having purchased from you
when there may have been somebody else right
458
00:24:47,579 --> 00:24:49,979
behind you that really would have cared about
me.
459
00:24:50,859 --> 00:24:55,500
So I think the principle that that business
leaders who do this really well and that I've
460
00:24:55,500 --> 00:25:02,184
had the privilege of is appreciating that every
interaction is a message to an individual.
461
00:25:02,265 --> 00:25:03,944
They matter or they don't.
462
00:25:04,105 --> 00:25:05,785
I value you or I don't.
463
00:25:05,785 --> 00:25:07,464
I see you or I don't.
464
00:25:07,945 --> 00:25:10,664
I'm going to respond to you quickly or I won't.
465
00:25:11,305 --> 00:25:16,859
All of it is a personal affront or a validation
of the human in front of you.
466
00:25:19,180 --> 00:25:20,940
Everybody wants to feel valued.
467
00:25:20,940 --> 00:25:27,820
Everybody wants to feel valued, appreciated,
anytime, whether it's at Rick's Carlton or
468
00:25:27,820 --> 00:25:30,565
Starbucks, you know, we go and get coffee.
469
00:25:30,565 --> 00:25:34,404
How does the barista how do they how am I being
treated?
470
00:25:34,964 --> 00:25:39,044
I could treat you well, but then it's always
that reciprocity.
471
00:25:39,285 --> 00:25:41,605
Do they treat the customers well?
472
00:25:41,605 --> 00:25:42,644
You know, how am I treated?
473
00:25:42,869 --> 00:25:44,150
I wanna be respected.
474
00:25:44,150 --> 00:25:45,109
Everybody does.
475
00:25:45,509 --> 00:25:51,349
And even in online business where maybe I never
see a person, there is still that sense that I
476
00:25:51,349 --> 00:25:53,029
get value for what I paid.
477
00:25:53,109 --> 00:25:54,470
Was the website working?
478
00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:55,990
Was it fast loading?
479
00:25:55,990 --> 00:26:01,515
What did they build it for somebody like me, or
have they made it too complicated for my use?
480
00:26:01,914 --> 00:26:08,315
Every single decision that I make in the way I
deliver an online product is the same
481
00:26:08,315 --> 00:26:13,434
interpretation model for me for the consumer,
the user experience, if you will.
482
00:26:13,799 --> 00:26:19,720
As a user, did I feel like they got it for me,
or did they make my life miserable?
483
00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:21,400
The same is true with AI.
484
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:27,434
Did they use AI as a compliment to my journey,
or did they replace humans making my life more
485
00:26:27,434 --> 00:26:27,914
complicated?
486
00:26:27,914 --> 00:26:31,115
Because I can't find a flipping human when the
AI doesn't work.
487
00:26:31,115 --> 00:26:32,634
Or yeah.
488
00:26:32,634 --> 00:26:34,794
I mean, I think it's all personal.
489
00:26:35,275 --> 00:26:43,080
I take everything personally and not in a
hypersensitive kind of way, but even in
490
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,759
superficial transactions.
491
00:26:44,759 --> 00:26:48,679
Like, why weren't they building this a little
better for me?
492
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,039
Right.
493
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:50,440
Right.
494
00:26:50,625 --> 00:26:55,264
And how do you see AI fit into the whole
hospitality?
495
00:26:55,904 --> 00:27:01,984
Is that culture gonna vanish when it disappear,
or would it enhance establishments even more?
496
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,279
I have friends in in Asia who would tell you,
oh, we're just gonna all be robots, and it's
497
00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:08,640
gonna all be technology.
498
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:14,160
And and then like, where are robots gonna go
into the hotel too and be served by robots?
499
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,964
Because until that time, there probably should
still be a human being somewhere in the
500
00:27:17,964 --> 00:27:20,284
equation because you're serving a human being.
501
00:27:20,525 --> 00:27:22,285
And and I think look.
502
00:27:22,285 --> 00:27:27,325
I don't have a crystal ball to know how much
technology is gonna dominate the landscape.
503
00:27:27,484 --> 00:27:30,845
I do believe there still will always be a place
for human service.
504
00:27:31,299 --> 00:27:36,740
And while I think technology will become even
more empathetic and more warm and nurturing and
505
00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:40,660
kind, and we're gonna buy into it, we're gonna
get seduced into, wow.
506
00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:40,900
Wait.
507
00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:43,140
I have an AI companion, but they're really not
real.
508
00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:43,859
Are you kidding me?
509
00:27:44,194 --> 00:27:45,474
Wanna marry my AI.
510
00:27:45,474 --> 00:27:46,434
It's already happening.
511
00:27:46,434 --> 00:27:48,914
People are marrying their AI avatars.
512
00:27:48,994 --> 00:27:52,355
So I think it could go a lot farther than I'm
wanting to believe.
513
00:27:52,674 --> 00:27:57,234
But that notwithstanding, I there's gotta be
people needed to serve people.
514
00:27:57,234 --> 00:27:59,234
And maybe it'll be a novelty for all I know.
515
00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:01,200
You wanna really pay premium?
516
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,359
You're gonna actually get to talk to a person.
517
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:08,640
But I don't think the humans are gonna lose
their appetite for human interaction.
518
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:16,079
If anything, I'm seeing a lot of data right now
about loneliness, isolation, technology almost
519
00:28:15,674 --> 00:28:19,674
creating a greater need for human contact.
520
00:28:20,715 --> 00:28:21,434
Right.
521
00:28:21,595 --> 00:28:22,634
A 100%.
522
00:28:22,634 --> 00:28:24,474
And we're talking about Asia.
523
00:28:25,914 --> 00:28:30,329
Japan has the first a robot hotel.
524
00:28:30,569 --> 00:28:35,289
And I was just flicking through, I think,
Instagram, and I just happened to stumble upon.
525
00:28:35,849 --> 00:28:40,249
And it it just blows me away, but that's where
everything is going.
526
00:28:40,250 --> 00:28:40,569
Yeah.
527
00:28:40,569 --> 00:28:47,345
You know, AI, the robotics, and it's just
playing a huge role in how we, you know, how we
528
00:28:47,345 --> 00:28:50,224
see technology just evolving.
529
00:28:50,945 --> 00:28:54,785
I think you to your point, I mean, I think
we're gonna see, first, the novelty effect of
530
00:28:54,785 --> 00:28:54,945
it.
531
00:28:54,945 --> 00:28:57,919
So, like, you're gonna wanna go to that hotel
just for the pure novelty it.
532
00:28:57,919 --> 00:29:00,640
And I think there's gonna be a point where
we're gonna really understand.
533
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,919
Maybe we want the, you know, the the robots to
make the beds and do the perfect corner tucks
534
00:29:05,919 --> 00:29:10,720
and save the the, you know, the repetitive
motion injuries to humans that we get now.
535
00:29:11,134 --> 00:29:17,134
But maybe that human is gonna need to retrain
and be kind of a higher level concierge greeter
536
00:29:17,134 --> 00:29:19,695
welcomer who really says to you, gosh.
537
00:29:19,695 --> 00:29:22,894
It was so good to have time with you today,
Elka.
538
00:29:22,894 --> 00:29:29,519
And then mean it, not, you know, not chat GPT
speak that says, hello, Elka.
539
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:31,759
I hope you are well today.
540
00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:38,559
I mean, I hope that we we find ways to use both
in in that enhance the human experience.
541
00:29:39,474 --> 00:29:40,434
Absolutely.
542
00:29:40,914 --> 00:29:44,514
Joseph and Michele, thank you so much for your
valuable time.
543
00:29:44,514 --> 00:29:46,514
This has been amazing conversations.
544
00:29:46,595 --> 00:29:47,474
Really appreciate it.
545
00:29:47,474 --> 00:29:48,274
Thank you for your time.
546
00:29:48,274 --> 00:29:49,234
I love what you do.
547
00:29:49,234 --> 00:29:51,634
Thanks for creating these opportunities for
your audience.
548
00:29:52,325 --> 00:29:52,805
Yeah.
549
00:29:52,805 --> 00:29:53,845
Thank you so much.
550
00:29:53,845 --> 00:29:54,644
I appreciate.
551
00:29:54,644 --> 00:29:55,605
Thank you, Francie.
