97: Finding a Sponsor-What It Really Looks Like

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If they pick up the phone before they pick up that drink or drug, there's a very good chance they're not going to go back out.
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This is the Addiction Recovery Podcast with Steven T.
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Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers in Sunny, California.
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Enjoy your experience.
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Steven, so good to be back together today.
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We've talked a lot about working the program.
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We've talked about AA and sponsors.
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I want to dive deeper into the specifics of sponsors today.
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So I have some questions for you.
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I love it.
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Definitely one of my favorite topics, as it is an imperative must of recovery.
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Okay.
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So let's let's start from a very basic level because some people may not be familiar at all with what a sponsor actually is.
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What is a sponsor and how does this all work?
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Let's start there.
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I define a sponsor as a mentor who specifically has working knowledge and has worked the 12 steps and is there to come alongside the individual recovering and recovery to take them through the 12 steps.
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So does a sponsor or they someone who they they've been through their own addiction journey as well?
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Or can you be completely sober and be a sponsor?
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I have not seen a completely sober sponsor before.
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Like I have not seen a sponsor who doesn't participate in a program of recovery sponsor people.
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Okay.
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All right.
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So what's the best way to find a sponsor?
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Is there like a directory?
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Is it word of mouth?
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Like somebody comes to restore, right?
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And they even're like, go find a sponsor.
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How do you actually do that?
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So tried and true tradition of finding a sponsor is you're in the rooms, meaning your meetings, like whether it's AA or NA or CODA or CA, but you're in the rooms and you hear somebody share and you want what they've got.
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So you might go up to them and find out if they're available or if they're able or willing or if they've been through the 12 steps and they can be a sponsor.
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That's one method of doing it.
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And I think that's a really good method.
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Actually, that's how I have found every single man who ever sponsored me.
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I heard what they were sharing in the rooms.
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I liked it.
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I got a focus on where they were at in their recovery and in their 12-step work, and I asked them to work with me.
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Another method is at many, many meetings, they will say, if you've been through the 12 steps and you have the ability to sponsor, please raise your hand.
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And people will raise their hands.
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And you can actually go and seek out people who have raised their hands and see if they would be available or wanting or willing to sponsor you.
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So there's not really a directory or like a Facebook for sponsors, then?
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No, there is not.
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It is more of an organic process.
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Sometimes you get referred to someone, like sometimes someone's like, I think this guy or this gal would be a really good sponsor for you.
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And then you can check it out and see how it feels and how it fits.
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But more often than not, I've seen it happen within the context of what people see and experience and hear in the rooms.
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Okay.
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So after somebody comes up to you and they're like, all right, Steven, I like you.
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I like what you have to say.
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I like your background, your story.
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We have a lot in common.
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Will you be my sponsor?
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You say yes.
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How does it actually work from there?
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Like, should someone expect a sponsor to check on them?
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Or is the expectation that the sponsee should be the one initiating regular?
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The rule of thumb is the sponsee shows the willingness and reaches out to the sponsor.
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There are exceptions to the rules.
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I often, this is my own stuff.
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This doesn't mean it's right, quote unquote.
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And this doesn't mean it's what others do, but this is something that I choose to live with.
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I am one of those ones who helicopter parent, raging codependent.
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I reach out a lot.
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I'm laughing at myself to my sponsees.
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But the guys I sponsor, I am extremely close with, and we've done a lot of work, and they're very important to me.
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Everyone's very important to me, but they're very important to me.
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So I break the cardinal rule because really the sponsey is supposed to contact and engage with the sponsor.
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So you have sponsees right now.
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I do.
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I have a rule too.
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I have six beds at restore.
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Okay.
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So I am very hands-on, and you know that at Restore.
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And I really case manage those beds.
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And so my limit for sponsees is six.
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And right now I have six sponsees.
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And you're saying the sponsees are people who are at restore.
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Or are you talking about people outside of Restore?
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No, people outside of Restore.
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I am willing to match up my number of sponsees with the number of beds that I carry at Restore.
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I don't I just feel like I can I can manage that.
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That's what God put on my heart.
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So I I do carry six Sponsies.
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I have six sponsees that are actively in the steps or who have been through the steps with me.
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Uh, they're all uniquely different.
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I I do love them all.
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Uh, I've been with them all for a little bit now.
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I'm I'm grateful to say they're all doing well.
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And I have sponsees who have gone back out in relapse, and I have sponsees who it didn't work out with, and I have sponsees who I wasn't the right fit for, and that's all part of it too.
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How often do your sponsees then reach out to you?
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Is it like every week, once a month, once a quarter?
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No, it's it's way more than that.
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It's more like daily contact, it really is all the way around.
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They're like for the most part.
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Phone calls, phone calls, text messages, see each other at meetings.
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I mean, it's a lot of engagement.
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And so the the whole idea is what?
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Like if you're being tempted or you're in a crisis, or maybe you just want to talk, or just like yeah, just checking in.
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Well, first and foremost, like I want to I want to address the fundamental function and and part of the sponsor's life.
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My job, quote unquote, as a sponsor, is to walk these men through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, contextually with the big book and with the 12 and 12 book, and get them through step one through 12.
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Because through the work in the 12 steps, Steve, there is a psychic change that occurs by working the 12 steps, and that manifestation of craving goes by the wayside.
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And then there is a spiritual awakening that results as what the result of the steps.
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And until you work the steps, you won't understand that, and you won't understand that until you work the steps and the sponsor's job, and I use that term job loosely because it's a it's a privilege and a blessing, and it it helps keep me sober, is to take these individuals through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
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What do you mean by that?
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Like when you're on the phone with them, you're you're like, all right, Steve, hold on, slow down, slow down.
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Let's go through step one through three today, like that or you're that's in person stuff.
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That's in person stuff.
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Okay.
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You do I do those things with my sponsees in person.
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Okay.
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And there's there's a lot of help with the literature, both the 12 and 12, 12 steps, 12 traditions, and the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous.
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It's all laid out in those books, and you follow the formula in those books because that's the formula that's been proven to work.
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So that's the idea.
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Like you stay true to the foundation and you're not going rogue on your own program or something.
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No, there is no, there's no there's no scratch version of it.
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It is you've got that recipe and you bake that sober cake.
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Okay.
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So what's what works?
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What type of things do you talk to a sponsor about?
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You don't have to go into detail about what kind of things you talk to your sponsors about, but like is it is it really just an open conversation about anything?
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Like I could call you and talk to you about like a bad day at work, or is it more like drug and alcohol related, or is this what?
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Yes.
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So it's so so it is.
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There's times where we talk about talk day-to-day life.
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There's times where we talk like recently, one of my sponsees, I just texted him contextually some next steps where steps six and seven are concerned.
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And after he received that text, I'm like, hey, like I'm expecting this to be done within the next two to three days, and then I want to make a date so we can sit down and cover the work and then move on to steps eight and nine.
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So that's just a live example.
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And I give him reference points on where to go where those steps are concerned.
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And if you if you read steps one through 12, those steps are comprised in an order with a very particular specific objective.
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And the objective is those steps are there to address the spiritual malady that I suffer from and they suffer from, and allow us, you know, to sustain our remission and reprieve, eliminate on a daily basis that manifestation of craving and have that spiritual awakening.
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Right on, Lord.
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That was exactly a good description.
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I love those words.
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You just like just roll that off the tip.
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That was it.
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Yep.
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I'm really happy with that.
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So have you ever been put in a situation or have you ever been on the other side of this where you're like about to relapse?
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Or you know, you're like, okay, I'm like at the tip right here, and they call you and they're like, Steven, man, dude, I'm like parked out front of the liquor store right now.
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I'm about to go in, and you're like, hold on, whoa, whoa, whoa, take a step back.
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Like you ever like come across those types of like dire phone calls?
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Or yes.
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Okay.
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How do you deal with that?
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You know, with a tremendous amount of intentional action and urgency, and you you slow the role and you play the drink or drug all the way through, and uh you understand that you may have to drop everything and and find them or have them find you, and or you have them meet you at a meeting and you get right into action.
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And if if they pick up the phone before they pick up that drink or drug, there's a very good chance they're not gonna go back out.
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If is the key word.
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You could probably tell though, like if if somebody's being evasive, they're just like avoiding your phone calls and and just kind of like um withdrawing themselves from connecting with you, is that a telltale sign or what?
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Steve, I had a guy who asked me to sponsor him, and I literally heard from him once, never heard from him again, and haven't seen them meeting since.
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Hmm.
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So that happens too.
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How long does it take until you could become a sponsor?
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Like if I just got out of rehab and I'm like, okay, cool, I'm clean, but I want to be somebody's sponsor, can I do that?
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Or this is my belief, and some people may have different opinions, and it's okay.
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I believe as a sponsor, you should have worked through all 12 steps.
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And once you have done the work with your sponsor in all 12 steps, you are equipped and prepared to start sponsoring others because the 12th step in and of itself describes and prescribes service as part of the 12 steps.
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Okay.
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So if you've worked the steps yourself, then that pretty much qualifies you.
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But there's no like hard and fast rule.
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Like, okay, you got to be five years before you need a sponsor.
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There's one sponsee I have right now who's soap been sober longer than I have.
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And I love sponsoring him.
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And we have a great relationship, but we also have a great sponsor-sponsee relationship.
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And I do get to sponsor him.
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And yeah, he's ahead of me, but but it's not the years, it's it's the days and the years.
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And so we both have something to offer to one another, but he is ahead of me.
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But I am, I mean, it just it just made so much logical sense with some of what I was able to come alongside with him personally.
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Eventually, he's like, it just would make sense to me that you'd be my sponsor.
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I'm like, it makes sense to me too.
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So if you're good with it, let's roll.
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Yeah, and and we do beautifully together, but he's years ahead of me.
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But again, I get a lot out of it.
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And then conversely, by the way, my sponsor who I love, who's extremely wise?
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Um, I call him Yoda.
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Uh, his name's Ed.
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I love the guy, he's he's a rock star.
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You know, he's uh 36 coming up on 37 years sober.
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So I really rely on and look to his experience, strength, and help.
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How do you know if somebody's a good sponsor or a bad sponsor, though?
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Like, are there signs or like how do you know that?
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Well, I again I want to make sure that I'm very mindful of explaining that this is my opinion.
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And some people may have different opinions about this, and that's okay.
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I think a good sponsor understands how critical this role is and makes compromises and sacrifices to be there for their sponsee and truly leans in and provides good working structure and makes it clear and understandable and and sets clear expectations and holds a firm line, but doesn't come at people guns blazing, and there's no shame and disparagement.
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But but we also, you know, if we baby them, we bury them.
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Like you hold them up to the task, and it's like, you know, we're we're here to get the work done.
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Yeah, we can bro out, and it's a nice thing, and it's it's I mean, my sponsees like I love them and I'm I'm for them, but like the work is the work.
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Wait, go back, go back.
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What you say, yeah.
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If you baby them, you bury them.
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You bury them.
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What do you mean by that?
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If you I mean, if you go ahead and coddle these guys and like you know, aren't willing to have the hard conversations or set boundaries or have expectations or or expect them to do the work or expect them to show up if you don't hold them to that and you're just gonna sit there and spoil them and like not hold them accountable to anything, you could end up they could end up dead at the hands of their disease.
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So it's really serious.
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And it really not everybody's like wired like that, though, right?
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Well, then you know, yeah, they're just wired differently than I am then.
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Yeah.
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By the way, I wouldn't be sponsored by me.
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I think I'm a lot to be sponsored by.
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Why do you say that?
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Because I I I have like massive expectations, and like I like I believe in a meeting a day, and I want them to show up and I expect the work to be done.
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And but the guys who are making it, the guys who walked ahead of me, who set the bar for me, those guys are living like that.
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They're nice guys and they're great guys, and and they're kind guys and they're nurturing guys, but they're not like messing around with this thing.
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This is life and death.
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Sure.
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And there's a lot of people who don't sponsor me, by the way, who are ahead who have walked ahead of me, who suggest things to me or share things with me.
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And let me tell you something, brother.
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I hang on every word because they know, and I need to continue to grow and listen and learn and soak it up.
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I mean there there's a guy who just took an anniversary, he's about a year ahead of me, literally.
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I'll tell you one thing, man.
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I hang on every word this dude says.
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I hang on every word that this dude says, and he he knows it too.
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He's getting to know me a little bit.
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And I've this this all kind of went down recently.
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He recently had an anniversary, and and I'd never really connected with him much.
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But again, I I hold him in very high regard because of his work and knowledge of the program.
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And I made it my business to reach out to him around his anniversary and just tell him, like, hey, like, I just have a profound amount of respect for your service and I get a lot out of it.
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And I like watching your actions and words match, and thank you.
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And then I saw him take another anniversary token at another one of the meetings I go to a lot, and I pinged him again on that, and I'm starting to connect with him more.
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And I'm doing that because I am growing from him.
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And he's just about a year ahead of me.
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And he's not my sponsor, but he's my friend and and he's my brother and trudge, the walk with purpose.
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And I'm interested, the men who have walked ahead of me, and some of the women too.
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Like there's women who've walked ahead of me, and and it's a very pure relationship, but I'm interested in their in their suggestions and their experience, strength, and help.
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What do you do if you have a bad sponsor?
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Because somebody may be trapped right now with a sponsor and and they need to break up with them.
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How do you go about doing that or what should you do?
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You should move on to a move on to a better sponsor and let them know it's just not a good fit and and don't worry about hurting feelings, be considerate and be kind and thank them for their time and find someone who's who fits.
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:12.480
But by the way, if it yes, but I want to make a disclaimer.
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:23.919
If it's a bit if you think it's a bad sponsor because they're holding you accountable and they're hard on you and they have expectations and they want you to be at meetings and they want you to get the work done, that's that's a great bad sponsor.
00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:24.799
Stick with it.
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.519
That that individual may well save your life.
00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:31.039
Yeah, and and those may be the ones who care about you the most, right?
00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:32.559
The most, absolutely.
00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:35.440
Again, like I think it is a lot to be sponsored by me.
00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:36.000
Yep.
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:39.600
But I work differently with each one of my sponsees as well.
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:42.639
And you love people and you care about them, and that's why I love them.
00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:47.759
Yeah, and I hate this disease, but I love them terribly, but I hate this disease terribly.
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:48.320
Yeah.
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.159
Well, thanks for answering these questions about sponsors and sponsees.
00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:53.600
I think this has been super helpful.
00:16:54.559 --> 00:17:01.679
And uh, this it's always good to be together with you, Steven, and um maybe uh close it off, tell people where they could find us.
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.559
Yeah, I mean, I hope you reach out to us, email us.
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.880
Um, we want to hear from you, we want to connect with you, we want to know about your experience, strength, and hope.
00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:09.759
We are for you.
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:10.319
We love you.
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:12.079
Everyone, have a safe and sober day.
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:15.440
Steve, thank you for tackling just this imperative issue of sponsorship.
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.319
It's it's a critical must of the fellowship of sobriety.